Slashdot Mirror
Pay vs. Happiness
itri writes "A co-worker recently sent me and article about job burnout. Although it's a year old, the points seemed to resonate well with me. The nutshell of the article is that job burnout is caused by lack of the sense of accomplishment, working for a narcissistic boss, and a conflict between the employers and employee's values. Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?"
With respect to your question, I have to say that you are really responsible for your own happiness and 90% of the employers out there do not really care about it. If they are smart, they would want happy employees, but as society moves more towards a service based economy with pre-produced products, there will be less craftsmanship around and less care for average employees as they can be quickly and easily replaced. So, your task is to find the niche that you can provide a well crafted product that those (like myself) will pay more for. I would say that if you are not happy, then change jobs or change careers or go back to school or start your own business.
With respect to pay vs. happiness, its a continuum is it not? There are those that would sell their souls to make the monthly payment on their Mercedes. I personally find that repugnant as it goes against my punk DIY ethos, but to each their own. Some folks simply find the job as a means for money to do other things with their life while others enjoy what they do for a living. I personally like to surround myself with people smarter than I am, have a passion for what they do, and treat them well to keep them around. That way, everybody is happy and things get done.
Incidently, I have three positions I am hiring for:
1) Board certified neurologist willing to relocate.
2) Board certified cardiologist willing to relocate.
You never know, but there are MDs that patrol Slashdot on occasion, so, why not?
3) Most importantly for this forum: A programmer. Can you program for OS X? Have Cocoa experience? Do you know IDL from RSI? If you answer yes to all three of the above questions, I have a job for you. I have my own stuff to keep me busy and happy so I won't be breathing down your neck. You even get to work from home or the lab, it's your choice, but if you are in the lab, you can have access to an incredibly extensive and diverse shared iTunes library and crank all you want. You can also have all the flexibility you want with the hours, I just want the code done within a reasonable amount of time. This is a contract position and you will find me most accommodating to work with.
If the meetings I have with the VCs next week go well, I might be hiring programmers with scientific robotics experience. Stay tuned to the Slashdot journal which gets updates from my blog.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
After all, if your supervisor is going to channel their Inner PHB, they give you little choice.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
Thoreau said, "A man is only as rich as the number of things he can let alone." Who cares how much money you make if you're so swamped you can't enjoy it? I am considering a career change for this very reason. Life's too flipping short.
I have to say that this article makes me feel crazier than I normally do.
With so many people out of work, it seems almost like biting the hand that feeds you to complain about your work conditions and expect your employer to care. Your employer's role is to provide work for you. Your job is to do that work. The employer should "care" in order to make you the most efficient you can be, but it is not their job to make sure you don't have other life ills that may cause you to take on more than you can handle. All my employees who have burned out in the past were replaced by people who accepted more pressure, more time constraints, and more deadlines without burning out. Those who burned out with me had burned out in the past and continue to burn out to this day. There are many reasons why they've burned out, and few of them had anything to do with the job.
Job burnout has more to do with the lack of appreciation and reward an employee receives for his or her efforts than an increased work load. NO. Job burnout has more to do with the fact that the employee sacrifices himself for a crappy job, why? Maybe because he's in terrible debt! Get your finances in order, and you can walk away from ANY bad job. Never tell me you NEED your job because of financial struggle. Maybe his girlfriend is a manic depressive freak who constantly pulls him away from his other responsibilities. Maybe he's got a habit that he can't kick, or he's got some baggage that makes him want to succeed no matter what. You made your bed, sleep in it.
Those suffering from job burnout feel no sense of accomplishment from and no control over their work lives. So walk away. Start your own company. SAVE. The Chinese are saving up to 40% of their income. The Americans are now saving 1%, 30% of all mortgages lately are interest-only. Why are you stressed: job or real life?
Today to get ahead and save for a reasonable retirement, workers often must hop from company to company to get a promotion. Ahhh! The average employee puts almost 15% of his income away in Social Security that he knows he will never see! How about if he put 15% of his income into his own house, savings account, vacation, or whatever? How much happier would he be? Do NOT say that employers are responsible for YOUR retirement. What are we teaching our next generation? That is it someone else's responsibility to take care of us in our old age.
Everyone is expendable, thanks to many employers' short-term, economic goals. I've run 7 businesses in the 15 years I've been in business. ALL of them had long-term goals, but I also realized that a LOT of my employees would be short term as they learned from me and found someone willing to pay the more. The wonderful free market allows people to do this. Those I invested the most in I had the most reason to pay better and give better fringe benefits to. Those who left because someone was willing to pay more than me found themselves in a better position. Those that complained I wasn't paying enough were not worth more to me, and not worth more to anyone else either it seemed.
The job conflicted with my values. I was mentally and physically exhausted and suffered from chronic stomach problems. Oh, I didn't realize this guy was forced to keep this job. Did his employer put a gun to his head? Did he have absolutely no other options to get a job? Did he really LIKE the pain it caused him?
Not dealing with a burned-out employee can undermine your organization's health and lead to a burnout epidemic. In the free market this is called "bankruptcy" and rarely has to do with employee's health. When all your employees are getting burned out, it is likely that the business was failing in many other areas.
It is very important to realize that there are MANY reasons why people burn out in work, in relationships, in friendships, in life in general. To blame employers for this VERY complex situation is ridiculous, and I believe t
Is Steve Ballmer rich? WAY YES! But is he happy? Oh no wait, Steve, get that chair down HEEEEELP!!!
Maslow's hierarch of needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_o f_needs) would say that a job can, over time, satisfy an employees physiological needs and safety, however, once these demands are met with money, an employer will look upwards in the hierarchy to love and belonging, and see that he could be doing better. I think that this is what happens, people see that once they are 'safe' from their basic needs, they look to expand both their emotions and themselves as individuals. People wish to do as well as they can, and doing so they look up the pyramid, leading them to change jobs, even if this produces a pay cut, as long as the pay cut allows them to live without any hardship.
Of course you can love what you do and still burnout due to bad leadership, bad environments, crappy salary, etc. But when you already love what you do you know exactly what you want and you know what to shoot for. There are many people out there who don't even know what they want to do.
So the trick is just to find a good place to do what you really love. Everything else falls into place after that. The world is a big place. Unless your specialty is the study of the mating habits of the black-striped vampire burrowing ferret that only lives in a remote region of Mongolia, you usually have choices about jobs.
Yes, but:
Yes, but - a company that cares about your satisfaction is necessary, but not sufficient. You're partially responsible for your own satisfaction. The company can only provide you an environment in which your work is meaningful, and with bosses who aren't asshats. Some companies fail to suck, but if you keep that "I show up, I hide for 8 hours a day, I get nothing done, and they still pay me" mentality, you're not going to enjoy it any more (or any less) than working at your last job.
Yes, and:
Yes, and - they do exist. And they're often hiring. They're everywhere, but they're usually small companies, and you wouldn't know about them unless you knew people already working there.
So, what to do:
Network. In other words, do the same thing you ought to be doing every night, Pinky. Ask your friends who's worth signing up with as part of your plan to try to take over the world.
RTFA-Even the most enlightened, caring employers are facing conditions that can lead to employee burnout. Bob Kerr, Innotec Stainless operations manager and Welding Wire subscriber, wrote, "I hope that as a follow-up to the replies you receive from burned-out welders, you can remind them that their employer's constant efforts to increase productivity while decreasing costs are also an effort to compete in an increasingly competitive market. If the employer cannot compete successfully utilizing domestic labor, he is either forced to offshore or close shop. Therefore, it is in the best interest of each employee to strive for higher personal productivity. As Americans, we tend to forget that we are indeed competing in an increasingly smaller world."
In other words, between the Clintonista Democrats and the Reganites and Bushies, we've signed too many free trade agreements for employers to actually be able to compete *and* care about their employees. So the second gets left in the dust because the federal government can't be bothered with the duties of the common defense and providing for the general welfare.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
From my humble experience, these guidelines help with the subject of the article
1. Be at work 10 minutes before time
2. Leave on time or up to 5 minutes after.
3. Don't do overtimes unless it's happening at most once a week and it's paid.
4. Have your own strong principles and be professional, do what you are paid for, but keep in mind rule number 2.
5. When a 'funny' new idea/feature/concept is about to be discussed and possibly implemented, don't go nuts over it. Stay calm, state your view, sit down and shut up. The last part is important because regardless of the undesirability of the idea, if your boss wants it to be implemented, you'll have no choice anyway. Instead of being stressed out, refer to rule 2 and 6.
6. Once work hours ends, forget everything until the next day regardless of the pressure. Work isn't your personal life.
7. Remember that people treat you the way you've allowed them to do.
If you still don't agree with me, do read:
workweek
Average work week in manufactoring
The smaller the company usually the less politics you need to go threw, the chances you are working on an important job is higher. Because you are a big fish in a small pond you actually feel like you are needed. If you work in a large corporation the benefits will be better but in a smaller company you will get more experience and you will be able to achieve more.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I work government, and while I do like my job, there is no real point in my putting in insane hours. Because in government, everyone has to be treated equally. I work about 45 hours a week, busy all day (and reading slashdot!). If we do raises, everyone gets a 2% raise, or x amount a year. Everyone. Even the people that sit around all day surfing the web. There is no reward for me implementing a system wide VOIP system in 1 month from brainstorm to going live. There is no incentive for me to put in tons of work, except for my own satisfaction, and resume building.
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Stolen Direct FTFA, adding in "The problem in finding out whether job burnout is occuring is because" and "(what I think is most important to the company):" Get a life.
Oh man, you are so disconnected with the real world - i don't think you have ever installed Linux - not in the last 5 years anyway.
Windows is only easy to maintain because everybody get so much practise fixing it all the time...
Oh well, what the hell...
I was in a sales job that I absolutely hated. I would do anything I could while there to keep my mind off work, while I was working! I would call my friends, drive around aimlessly and just day dream. Worst part was not only did I hate the job, I had to commute an hour every morning. It was against the normal traffic flow, so just a straight 70 miles north of my city.
I quit that job to take my current position which I really enjoy. I don't have to commute more than 15 mins. I don't have to put in overtime. I don't have to worry about job security, and I don't get paid shit, but the benefits are amazing.
I was on track to make $55,000 at my old job, but like I said I hated it, had I tried I would have been on track to make closer to $80,000. I now make $32,000 and am so much happier. Best part is I get to look at Slashdot all day while sitting in my office. Seriously, look at my previous posts, I make 90% of them between 8:30am to 4:00pm.
P.S. I ride the bus to work, no one in their right mind would do that unless they are happy with thier jobs. Or one of the hippies who ride with me.
Good advice.
Do your job, be professional, avoid getting into that other stuff.
I enjoy my job, it's a good job. I take pride in my work, I do a good job.
I leave on time, and leave work at the office, generally.
I rarely take work home, and I try not to travel on weekends. I'm fair to the company and they're (so far) fair to me. It helps I've got a reasonable boss who believes in that balance results in better long term performance. Many other supervisors I've seen are less balanced in his approach, their people work more, but don't seem to be any more successful, and their turnover is higher.
Makes you think.
Get in, get the job done 6 months late, get out. Get called back constantly because you did a poor job.
My apologies if you're not a building general contractor.
Got lucky switching to a new industry at about the same pay in a less expensive town in California, and never looked back. The work is stimulating and pretty much everyone is within my age and socio-economic group. The work is more service based, so I get out of the office quite a bit and get to interact with customers. For a mid-size company, everyone pulls their own weight to just get the work done.
No time cards, just need to get the work done on time and to the customer satisfication. It is great. Get a couple days ahead? Get a couple guys together and go golphing.
After 2 years working here, I've gotten about a dozen job offers. 3 of them for double my current salary. Funk that. I'll just be able to afford $500 loafers to kick myself with after recieving my first TPS report.
I am billdar, and I approve this message.
> prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjones/
Dude - relocate to _Utah_?! You gotta be kidding me...is there hazard pay included?
(joke!) [sorta]
Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?
Yes, yes, and just to add it another time for good measure YES!
Job satisfaction is a huge one on my priority list, it should be on your employers list, but most of the time it won't be. It's a shame that it works this way, but that's life I guess. I am self motivated normally because what I do the people who I work for can see the benefits of what I am trying to do. I also have a very good working relationship with them so if I need money for budgets or someone out of my way to do things, it's all very easy to organise. This means when I have to work two or three weeks straight and pull 12 - 14 hours days for that period I know that taking time off afterwards to see family / friends won't even be questioned. Anything else that I need during that time will also be taken care of without question too.
It all comes down to the person / people who you report to, some people just aren't adept at keeping people happy by doing all those little things that keep staff. Most of the time, it's usually other members who care more and make your boss do things. I know that I bought a lot of alcohol (Bottles of wine, champagne) pens and other small gifts for staff. I managed to get one of our staff members sent away to a resort with one of her friends for a weekend away after finishing a project.
A lot of the time I find it's all about the relationship you have with the people that you report to, if you can see them as friends and they respect you for what you are doing, then all problems seem to fade away. If you are consistently not seeing eye-to-eye on things, I would definitely move somewhere else.
Just to let you know as well, from having managed teams before, and people that have been unhappy and going to leave, the company policy before was just to give them a pay rise and that would make them stay. Only problem with that is none of the issues about WHY that person is unhappy have been resolved. In two or three months they will want to leave again. Usually it comes down to job appreciation and giving them challenges to keep them thinking. If you do this I have seen people work for a lot less because they actually enjoy their work. When people are happy it's very very easy to correlate between their performance at work as well.
Employers like this do exist, but it's just a case of finding them. I would find out what makes you happy and ask questions about this in your interviews to see if the company that you could be working for is really what you are after.
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
In her book Overcoming Job Burnout, Dr. Beverly Potter defines burnout as "a destruction of motivation caused by feelings of powerlessness.
Thanks for that REALLY. You've just described my eight years in the workforce, and the way every pointed-haired boss I had used to take control over my life for at least eight hours a day.
Work. Do your job well. Leave your work at the office. Go home. Rinse. Repeat.
It's just that easy folks; if a chubby, 24 year old tattooed jackass like me can figure that one out, anyone can. I don't see anything really groundbreaking in this article, but if it keeps you from stealing MY stapler, by all means, read on. Or maybe go to Amazon and buy one of the 5 or so books she quoted from.
hi mom!
According to in depth research using googlefight, pay wins.
I would like to say that I left the USA and went to work for one of the best Game Developers in the EU: and I f*cking love this company. They seem to honestly care about the workers. We get ~25 days paid vacation, and OT is compensated with paid vacation days. (which is unheard of in the US) When they wanted to make a move to a larger city, they actually polled the workers to determine which city to move to! Sure, it's a Game Developer, so we stay long hours to finish things for deadlines, but it's so much nicer when you are working on a Sunday, being compensated; you get an email asking what you would like for lunch, and the CFO later walks around handing out ice cream bars to people saying "thanks for coming in on sunday, we will try to only ask you to come in on weekends when it is really needed." It really makes me want whats best for the company as a whole, and I would stay longer hours and work harder to make a better game and do better for the company I enjoy working at.
Americans are, apparently, the most productive workers in the world. ... but they're sure as shit not the happiest.
I've worked in Europe and I've enjoyed 40 hour work weeks and 35 days paid vacation per year. It made me more productive overall when I was at work. Strange but true.
Now I'm in the U.S. and I get 15 days vacation and the idea of 40 hours in high-tech is a joke.
So now I work long hours (but get less done), don't get decent vacations, am worried about the cost of heathcare and whether I'm going to get fired next week for "realignment" reasons, have a 70 minute commute in stop/go traffic and a $500,000 mortgage on a shit-hole house and I'm barely making the payments.
Still, you've got to laugh.
That said, perhaps you need to step back and ponder your situation a bit.
Is it really the job that you don't like?
Could it be that you just aren't good at it?
Do your coworkers not like you?
Do they have a good reason?
Why do you think it's the company's job to make you happy?
These and other questions sound silly, but are crucialy important. You may like your job just fine, but be unhappy with your personal life. You may not mesh with others in your office. Maybe you would be happier starting your own business. Don't automatically assume that all your problems are the fault of someone else. The only consistant feature of every unsatisfying relationship that you have ever had is you. Something to ponder.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
I just came across a proposition to change my career yet again. When I was in Philly (ick) I was installing wifi all around the country. I dug the hell out of it but I really missed everything Santa Cruz, CA had to offer me. So I quit what I was doing and moved out to the west coast. I still had my consulting company out here but it wasn't a steady paycheck and bringing me the big bucks.
So here I am in CA, doing tech support for the courthouse (we let our consulting company slowly fold as my biz partner headed off to law school and I sought a bit more stability). I get to ride my bike to work every day (about 10 miles each), have great weather, good people all around, the ocean here, the mtns, etc. However, just recently I was offered the chance to do the wifi stuff again with a 50% raise. I pondered it for about a week and realized it wasn't a lifestyle I wanted. 50% wasn't enough to travel all the time, have instability, won't get to ride all the time, etc. Paying the bills would be awesome, but it's just not worth the sacrifice. Apply this to all your job decisions and man...it's interesting what you can come up with.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
Seriously now... First, a very sincere and emphatic kudos to all those hard-workers out there. But I can't help but ask:
1. Are all of you really doing what's best for yourselves? Clearly not all of you, working long and hard for status symbols that (usually) won't get you a thing, and products (of course not all of them, but the percentage is high) you likely wouldn't have cared for if they weren't a short distraction from a moment of idleness spent leafing through advertisements at the paper. Most rational people would rather spend the money buying back that most important of commodities (well, after food and shelter) - time. Free time.
2. Are you doing what's best for society? No. If you were unwilling to work as long, other people would have been hired to fill your places when you're not at work. Both you and them would have been paid more for the time you did work, as there would have been more demand for workers and less of a supply of them. Also, if you consumed less... Well, we I don't need to tell you what that would have done for the environment.
(By the way, saying I'm not a socialist would be putting it mildly. But the opposing view to that isn't a mindless race to consume as much as possible, frittering precious time away in the process.)
News for merdes. Shit that matters.
Ask me about my sig.
I disagree completely. I'm trying to lead a really happy life right now, instead of planning to do it after 30 years of misery. In a way I've told the whole capitalist rat race to fuck off many years ago.
The idea you talk about is the whole Christian work ethic once again, with retirement as the blissful afterlife. There are other, IMHO better ways to live your life.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
If you indeed mean "drop out as soon as possible (and safe)", then we're not in disagreement. But I do think most people would rather keep working (but less) well into their 60s, because there's not much else for them to do, and hell, they may even enjoy it. So work less (and spend less) for a long time instead of rush to the finish line.
News for merdes. Shit that matters.
Ask me about my sig.
Education and Government.
Education and Govt both pay poorly when compared to their private sector jobs...which really means they arent as demanding, but because the IT departments tend to be smaller, you get a good opportunity to try out new technlogies...the biggest drawback from both of these are low pay and yearly audits...
For some, they would rather make $40k/yr and be happy and fairly secure than make $80k/yr with a job they hate...
To get a job that you wont eventually hate you honestly have to be willing to accept lower pay or lack of freedom, or both...
You can be a field slave, work harder, and make lower pay while having more freedom and less responsibility. Or you can be a house slave with higher pay and more responsibity. Either way you'll have a boss unless you are the CEO in which case you are the slave master.
My point is, unless you own yourself you will be unhappy, so unless the economy is good, you are going to either be a rich banker, or working for walmart. The good jobs will be shipped overseas while all the crappy jobs that suck like service jobs, these will stay.
So what would you prefer? Rich and unhappy working for a corrupt boss? Poor and unhappy working for a corrupt boss? The only way out of being unhappy is to be your own boss.
Be your own bully, or be bullied.
Basically, here's the roughly-a-paragraph version of my career, followed by what I do now:
Started mid-'80s with minor tech jobs and tech/sales jobs for crappy, now out-of-business retailers (Egghead, ComputerTown, etc.). Got hired by a customer to be their admin, spent 6 utterly frantic, insane years there. I worked at all hours of the day and night, dealt with issues constantly, but I was well-paid, respected, and treated well. I loved it. Went to another job as IT manager for an insurance company, paid a lot more money. Loved it and the people, until we were sucked in by a much bigger insurance company. Their strategic plan for us involved firing half the employees and turning it into a branch office. Lost my job there as one of the first overboard (I was management, after all) in mid-'03 after 5+ years - the first 3 solving problems and running operations, the last two having conference calls with my new boss in Minnesota.
After that thoroughly disheartening experience with The System, I decided to give being my own boss a shot. I hung out my shingle in the spring of '04, and managed to eke out a living for the first year. Now, I wouldn't say my success is assured and I'm not making the kind of bank I used to, but I'm really busy, making a good living, and I love my job. My customers are actually grateful for my work, and they trust me to help steer them in the right directions. The experience I had is a real asset for them. And even if this doesn't work out in the long term, I've learned a lot about myself, learned a lot about business, and gotten the chance to actually use all the tech skills I've piled up over the years instead of rotting from the neck up as a PHB.
The downside? Some weeks I can't find enough hours in the week to do everything, some weeks I hear crickets chirping when I sit in my office. And today was supposed to be a family day to go to a museum with my wife and son, but instead I had to finish a proposal in the morning, and then get called in to a customer about a half-hour from here to fix a server whose power supply had failed (installed before my time and soon to be replaced). But you know - it wasn't too bad. Because the proposal is for a nice bit of business, and that didn't take too long. And the other customer knew that I was giving up my personal time to help and they genuinely appreciated it. And appreciation is something that is often sorely lacking in the salaried, 9-5 world. Crises like that don't happen often, and it just happened to be today.
So basically I'm saying that if you want to be happy, consider working for yourself. It's a much better life (at least for me), and it's nice to at least have some measure of control again. The worst case is you'll learn something in failing. The best case is you get to really be in charge of your career.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Pay your employees what they are worth, treat them well, put the stockholders SECOND (and make your employees know it), and strive for success. If you need to build a molehill, engage your employees to built a mountain.
The problem with most jobs is that (and it's true for me) I *know* I can do a better job than the person above me. And it's not the work itself -- I have ideas to make things work smoother, cheaper, more efficient, etc. Most companies fear change -- they do what they can to keep everything successful and change nothing for sake of their employees.
Why do you think Google is the 'job' that EVERYBODY wants (myself included)? Their environment is key to their success. They give their employees free food, let them wear whatever the fuck they want, and pay them well. The idea of companies getting more for less is proven false time and time again -- you will just have more people staying under the radar and doing the bare minimum, as the article suggests.
Here's a few tips from personal experience, that I can pass along to corporations:
-- Don't have "End of the Month" meetings congratulating how great the company's 'numbers' were when 99% of the people in attendance gain NOTHING from it, and the 1% who do are the ones trying to "motivate" you to get better numbers for next month.
-- Don't keep on incompetents, people with bad tempers, and just lazy fucking bastards just because they seem to be on a 'tenure' track and have a 'history' with your company. If you are detrimental to the employees in any way, get the fuck out.
-- Offer a Christmas bonus, ever year. I don't care if I got a $10 gift certificate to Walmart, it's the THOUGHT (and yes folks, your parents taught you right) that counts here. To say after a year's work, in a time of holiday and giving, and that you KNOW the managers are getting HUGE bonuses, learn to give a little back to your employees. You have no idea how valuable that $10 may be.
-- Offer advancement, even if it's fake. When I came in as "Janitor" (though I didn't but regardless), and I did a decent job and I earned my whopping (can you feel the sarcasm?) 4% raise, change my title too. I would love to be Janitor Level II -- head of vomit patrol for lavatories 1-4. Granted it was probably my job before but the fact I got a title change makes me feel just a little better.
-- DO NOT EXPECT YOUR EMPLOYEES TO ABANDON THEIR FAMILIES/LIVES TO WORK FOR YOUR SHITTY COMPANY. I cannot stress this enough. I work a 50 hour work week. Unless somebody is about to die, do not call me on the weekend, do not ask me to finish up a project by staying only a half hour more, and learn that "results" are often measured in QUALITY and not QUANTITY of hours. If you stress that you want the best job that your employee can do, but NOT at the expense of their personal lives, then your company will benefit. Because employees will make sure to get their projects done in a timely fashion because they have ALL of the aforementioned 'tips' to look forward to, coming in to another day at work.
-- And lastly, do not believe that YOU, as Management, are worthy of any praise. You are scum because you make boatloads more money than me for a LOT less work. Granted *some* of you worked to get there and some of you did not. As an employee, I don't give a flying fuck and I will always hold that against you. That's not negotiable. Your job as management is to be despised by all employees and looked at with scorn. So don't get mad about it -- just offer what you can to say that at the end of the day, with your fistfulls of cash, you are missing one dollar to give your employees an infinitely better workplace.
But we won't ever stop saying how useless and stupid you are because let's face it dude... you are a fat dumb bastard and we all aspire to be in your position as well.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
It can be debated whether or not the free trade agreements, etc. have promoted the general welfare.
The key word being "general" there- but yes, you're right. They have not promoted the general welfare (if anything, they've promoted the general poverty for specific welfare) and you're completely right that it's promoted, not provided.
But the general welfare is not provided by the federal government, it is provided by the citizens in the form of commercial activity.
Which has been largely prevented by free trade agreements. How can one possibly have any commercial activity if one cannot compete in one's industry?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I tend to agree with many of your points, but not quite *all* of them.
In a relatively "good" job market, sure - there's little to no excuse for someone to keep a "crappy job" that's making them physically ill, etc. But at least in my field (computers and I.T.), the overall market has simply NOT been very "healthy" at all ever since around 2001. I'm not sure I really see any signs of it "recovering" either.
I've been out of work for over 6 months now, and it's not even that often I can find an opening to send a resume to - because businesses are getting more and more demanding about exactly what they're seeking in a candidate. I have close to 15 years of combined experience with computer hardware and support, consulting, purchasing, and troubleshooting. Unfortunately, practically every job I see considers most/all of that "nice stuff to know on the side" while they really want someone who either does software coding of some sort, database administration (with previous experience in SQL, etc.), or experience implementing/supporting very specific appliacations (EG. Peoplesoft or specific CRM type packages). When it's not some combination of those, it's some type of "project manager" or "I.T. Manager" opening - requiring management experience and skills I don't have, because I've spent all my time on the "technical side" of things instead.
My "mish mash" of experience in everything from Linux to Mac OS X to IBM OS/2 Warp to Windows NT 3.51, 4.0 and 2000 server support to "you name it" doesn't amount to a hill of beans to anyone except the "on site computer service" places like Geeksquad or "Computer Nerds" who just want to pay you a lousy $10/hr. or so to drive all over town doing work they bill close to 10x that much for.
Years ago, I could at least get a respectable job as a "support specialist" or possibly even "systems analyst" at a mid-sized company with my skills. But even in the late 90's, these types of jobs were rather sparse. Now, I'm stuck trying to do my own on-site business because I simply can't find employment other than accepting something paying well under 40% of what I used to earn 10 years ago!
Preaching to people about the "need to have healthy relationships" is practically pointless. I *thought* I had one myself several years ago. My marriage ended horribly when my ex turned out to have mental problems that suddenly surfaced (bi-polar, manic depressive, etc.) and on one of her "downer" days, decided it was really all my fault and cleaned out my house, took our daughter, and moved about 5 hours away. Thankfully, all of that mess is pretty much sorted out (divorce finalized, etc.) - but I lost most of what I owned including 2 cars. And though I have primary custody of my daughter now, that also means I have a responsibility to do what it takes to earn money so she gets a decent life here with me. So some boss who lectures me about "over-extending myself" while he sits back and collects a good 2x-3x my salary just to "manage" me isn't going to sit well with me. I'm not some irresponsible drug addict who can't manage my money.... I'm simply busting my ass to do the right thing in a piss-poor economy.
I've worked for both types of employers and I'll pick happiness over pay. I think it follows a pattern though, there are greedy people who find money is the focus of life and there are those that get confused and believe that temporarily but come back to reality.
Two years ago I took a $25,000/year pay cut to change jobs. This was not one of those changes pending a layoff either, I did it when I realized that the rat race was really not worth it. Sixty and seventy hour work weeks, lame project management, foolish executives and the like, it sucks and anyone that believes those are acceptable parameters for an employer to foist, yes foist, upon an employee is a fool.
My advise is find a good company where employee happiness and community responsibility are of primary importance and go for it. You won't regret leaving the rat race and you'll be the envy of your former coworkers who are stuck as wage slaves while you still make a damn fine living while working a normal 40 hour week. Then there's always the side benefit of working for a socially responsibly organization and you can't really put dollars on that.
Democrats and Republicans are like AIDS and Cancer, I want neither!
They call it work for a reason. If it was "fun" to be at work, you would be paying them to be there. :)
Sometimes jobs fit different periods of your life. The high stress, high travel job might be good for a young professional with no family yet. Once your responsibility to others increase, your job needs might change. I might be perceived as good to give your children an Ivy League education, but is it worth it if you missed all or many of theirr basketball or soccer games? Would they even know you? A balance is good. I am sure some people can produce High income and have time to be with their family. Good for you. But for the rest of us, this is not possible.
Life is not a dress rehersal, this is the real thing. Spend some of your opportunity cost on living. :)
-Nick
I'm glad you used the modifier 'most.'
Many programming jobs out there are basically for monkeys. Very little decision making, just a lot of coding.
A lot of us on the other hand get involved with the business aspect of what we do. The 'why's, the 'how's...all of that. When the program manager or programmer is part of the decision making team, it becomes a very skilled and valuable position.
And by the time you reach that level, you don't care about the language you use, the editor you use, the platform, or anything else. You just use whatever will work for the project.
No reason to lie.
People like you always lump all lawyers in together, until its your ass in the Defendants chair.
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
southern france is hot, too. the netherlands famously have very liberal drug laws, and you could expect pretty much everybody to speak excellent english.
eurostat has statistics galore that will give you some hints, but keep in mind to weight the living expenditures against the income.
what you should do, imho, is take a couple of weeks off and travel around a bit. we have cheap airlines that will let you get around on a low budget. we also have an excellent railway system, you'd see more that way.
it's not just the working hours (and cheap bandwidth, although it's important, of course) that make for quality of living, but also the food and the people. those are highly individual factors, so going there first before you decide to begin a new life would be a smart investment of the little time and money it would cost you, imho.
What does it matter what the GDP of your nation is?
If the nation's GDP goes up an extra 1%, do you get a dividend check for your share of the difference?
If the nation's GDP goes up 3% will you suddenly become more handsome, grow a larger penis overnight, and get a 20 point IQ boost?
Unless you're getting an equal and/or fair share of the increase in GDP, then crowing about how "GDP has gone up!!!11one" is simply a slave mentality... you're somehow happy that your masters who control the economy made some more profit, even though you'll get none of the fruits of that increase.
If you've got a 35-hour workweek, 6 weeks of paid vacation every year, free healthcare, free schooling through Bachelor's-level for your kids, and a guaranteed old-age pension.... would you give it all up so you could live in a country that had a slightly higher GDP????
Are you insane? What on god's green earth effect will a higher GDP have on your own personal life experience??
You'd be shocked to find out how many CEO's feel they are the slave. Boards, investors, clients, vendors, family, etc. There is no top of the hill, unless you're prepared for a negative cash flow.
The good jobs will be shipped overseas while all the crappy jobs that suck like service jobs, these will stay
The good jobs, like standing on a production line 10 hours a day doing the same thing over and over and over agin, hoping you don't get too sleepy and have your arm in the hydraulic press when it goes? Maybe you long for the good jobs like working in a coal mine?
Happiness is a state of mind. You can choose to be happy working in Walmart or shoveling asphalt in Death Valley, and you can choose to be unhappy as CEO of Bank of America or even when sitting in your cube hating your job instead of looking for something else to do.
Be your own bully, or be bullied.
Nice. Shocking to find you unhappy...
Even if you are your own boss (i.e., own a business) then you are still a slave to your customers, and in general the current state of the economy.
The only way to not be a slave is to buy your way out, that is save up enough money that you can live off the interest. How much you need to save depends on what lifestyle you want to have. But there are a number of people that have decided to cash everything in, turn to a minimalist life, and survive off the land & interest from sold assets.
Most large companies consider employees to be completely interchangeable and replaceable like light bulbs.
That's not to say that all small companies are good, though. Many tech startups have a business plan that requires making their employees work long hours and weekends until they burn out. Avoid those like the plauge. They always tell prospective employees that they will reap big rewards on stock options, and in fact often insist that the employee should accept lower salary and worse benefits in exchange for the options. Don't buy it. Options *might* pay off, but it's a long shot. If they try to sucker you into such a plan, ask them to give you the salary and benefits you want and forget the options. They'll almost never do that, which tells you that their real opinion on the value of their own options is that they are worthless; obviously you shouldn't value them any more highly.
I've had the good fortune to have several enjoyable jobs at small companies, including my current job. At a few of them I did eventually make modest gains on stock options, but not enough for a down payment on a house. Well, maybe a down payment on a house somewhere other than in Silicon Valley.
Perhaps, but wouldn't you crow too? "GPD IS UP!!!111 TEH YAYNESS, ROFLLRZZZZZ"
Yes!
Oh now you're just being plain sarcastic aren't you?
What country is that?
Me? I was hired to be the "instructional tech guy". What did that mean? Well, in a nutshell nobody really knew exactly, so I could do what I wanted. I've got a reasonably clued boss who trusts me when I say "I think we need to do X", so at various times it's meant
In other words, whatever I felt was interesting to play with that day. Couple that with an interesting intellectual atmosphere (Where else can you ask around about negative yield curves and get good answers?) and the freedom to add to that. (I've invited James Randi to speak on campus next week[1]) Oh yeah, and no TPS reports. About the only thing I have to do to justify my actions is write a few paragraphs once per year.
As far as advancement, we tend to hire total noobs with good attitudes. My boss (head of IT) started as a secretary with a high school education. Moved up to the Help Desk, started working on her BS, started managing the Help Desk, moved over to the admin support staff...
Yeah, it can get annoying at times with the petty politics, but for all you hear about prima-donna professors I'll take them anyday over typical corporate minions. (I've worked both sides)
[1] If you're in central Virginia, it's the 5th of October and it's free. Check his schedule for details
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Sounds like France. The healthcare in many European countires is crap, though. When you have free office visits with a doctor the offices over swamped with hypocondriacs so a regular visit takes longer. Emergency room trips that aren't immediately life threatening take way longer too, same reason. I know someone who had a knee operation perfored in the Netherlands, she almost lost her leg to infection. She also has some pretty bad dental work (same country) which took some pretty comprehensive work in to get right when she moved to New York.
But the retirement benefits are freakin awesome. Her husband was laid of at about 7 years away from retirement age. He received 5 years severance and the company is continuing to pay into his retirement fund until he reaches retirement age.
briefly, I started as a graphic designer and production artist in 1990, first working for a manufacturer, then going on my own for a couple of years--my computer skills have been valuable because I learned the technical aspects of print production, rather than just making pretty layouts--in the mid 90s, I started learning web design and multimedia (Director) --wanting to be my own boss, I started a small design biz and went on my own--during this time, I had my own clients, as well as doing freelance work inside many top ad and marketing agencies in Minneapolis. then, I went to work for a homegrown ad agency, who was actually pretty good to work for, with lots of perks, but also having to put up with typical client BS.
by 2000 i'd had enough, and moved to New York City, to get an advanced degree, learning multimedia art + design, and to see how i'd match up with the best. I was freelancing while going to school, which went fine at first, and then slowly dissipated with the dotcom bubble burst, finally falling on 9-11, which I saw from my classroom window. the next year and a half were spent trying to work out of this--I actually got a job at a remaining dot-com, but the founder split with the last 600k, and I was out of a job a week after I was hired...at this point, my rent wasn't being paid, much less my bills or student loans--also, I'd exhausted any credit I had, or even friends or parents to help me pay my bills--i was on my own, with no income and few prospects (freelance rates dropped through the floor at this time, and the competition became ever more fierce). bankruptcy was imminent...
I still kept my work studio, though, because I found I *needed* to keep working--the silver lining is that with commercial work nonexistent, I could work on my own projects--I distinctly remember waking up to go to the studio being flat broke, knowing that the financial world was closing in on me. strangely, I felt free and ok with this, becausee even though I wasn't being paid, I was going to go and work on my stuff, because that's what I do.
just when things were at their lowest, I met my future wife--she's European, and from a family of artists (and she's a geek;>--we fell in love and got married, and most of my concerns were eliminated...because my wife's father (who died when she was young) left her some money, I am able to work without having to submit to the most lucrative job--I teach interactive multimedia design and spend the rest of my time working on my own projects. Next year, I will be releasing my own creative work, (hopefully in conjunction with a major event that I am working on being a part of), while continuing to teach, and spend time with my beautiful (geek) wife...
what's the point? Surely, I got incredibly lucky, however, that luck came after I stayed true to my own self, and pursued my dream--I was willing to take less, and put in more, in order to pursue my dream, and in the end, it came back to me a thousandfold--before that, however, I gave up a steady job, where I made good money, but got very little satisfaction putting together schlock work for anybody willing to pay.
lots of people would trade places with me now, but which nobody would have done 2 1/2 years ago--I do believe that it was my willingness to stick it out to the bitter end that got me this far--that's the message that I want to send out--you *can* make your dreams come true, if you want them bad enough--they will never turn out quite like you expect in the beginning, but you can see it clearly, looking back...
corporations are like casinos--they may pay you some coin, but they'll take your heart and soul in return--I can't blame anybody who takes a corporate job to feed themselves and their families, however, it's always a tradeoff, and make no mistake, they take as much of your heart and soul as they can. In return, many of the things that you think you need are actually modern 'convenien
France. Germany. Possibly Saudi Arabia. (Really!)
In 2004, I left a job as a software engineer to join the Marines as a Naval Flight Officer (think Goose from Top Gun). I was making good money ($70k 1 year out of college), had flexible hours, and had a great working environment (awesome boss and several friends), but it just wasn't satifying me.
Now as a 2nd Lieutenant with 1 year of service, I make the equivalent of $42k (tax adjusted) and am loving it. The money is more than enough for everything I want & need.
The only thing I miss is how academic & intellectual everyone was back at my job in the civilian world. Don't get me wrong; the people here are smart, but it's more in terms of technical proficiency and quick thinking. Running my own programming business on the side seems to satisfy that need, though.
I have had jobs where I had to put up with a lot of crap. The pay was always reasonable, never too crazy. The hours usually sucked, and as a norm most of the first line supervisors were clueles. Since the pay was just reasonable it fell under the "I don't get paid enough for this shit" category, so once these became unbearable, I moved on.
There have also been a couple of jobs that fall under the "damn, I *do* get paid enough to put up with shit." In that case the pay and benefits are a bit higher than usual, so you put up with the crap in the job for as long as you can hack it.
Of course, once in a lifetime you get that one job where you get paid well, people listen to you and you can pretty much get away with murder. Hell, you might even get lucky and end up working for a first line supervisor that is not an idiot. If you are one of the very few lucky bastards in this position, STFU and try to get as much as you want out of it.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
Comment removed based on user account deletion
One acquaintance of mine is convinced that he's entitled to promotions because he got his ticket punched by getting a degree from a fairly decent school about two decades ago. Since that time, he's shown no initiative at all, and just whines when people he considers inferior to him pass him on the career ladder.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
But on a per capita basis, western Europe's productivity is close to (or possibly exceeding) that of the US. The US just has a lot more people. On an hour-per-hour basis, western Europe is significantly more productive.
we do work harder -- more hours per week, more weeks per year.
That's a bit of a simplistic analysis of any massively complex stastistic. All the countries have their own methods of reporting, classification, etc...
For instance, I can see three countries (using 1994 data) on page 6 of this document: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/8/51/2080270.pdf which exceeded the USA in the category of percentage of workers working more than 45 hours per week; Australia, Japan, and the United Kingdom. This is of OECD countries - I'd like to see figures for non-OECD too; I had a discussion about this with a Chinese guy at Uni and he said 7 day work weeks were not uncommon over there. If it comes to that, I've worked a 7 day week two or three times, too.
My girlfriend gets 37.5hrs/week flexitime, 5 weeks holiday, 'free' healthcare (actually National Insurance for ~£50/month, IIRC), a guaranteed state pension and got free education to Bachelors level (although that's changed now) in a junior admin position in the UK. I'm self-employed in the UK, but work entirely for a German company, so I see how well they treat their workers too.
I think the continental European countries do take the Socialist thing a bit far, but good working conditions aren't as bad for the economy as some Americans seem to think.
37-hour week, though many people put quite a bit more than that in their jobs.
5 weeks of paid holiday. (And a few "extras")
Free schooling through masters level (M.Sc.). You have to get good grades to get into popular studies like humanities, medicine etc. though. Students receive a government grant (not to be repaid) of about $600/mo.
Guaranteed old age pension. I'd recommend topping it off with your own savings though.
OTOH, there's a 180% (one hundred and eighty!) tax on cars, VAT is 25% and if you hit upper middle class income you'll pay about two thirds of your last earned krone in income tax..
Not to mention that even with a well-paying job, the guy flipping burgers isn't that far behind you on the scale. This is of course reflected in the price of your fries.
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
- 35 hrs to 40 hrs workweek
- 30 paid days on vacation i.e. 6 Weeks
- "free" healthcare 50/50 you, your employer. Thats about 7% of gross income.
- free schooling, free university
- old-age pension, about 10% of gross income (50/50 you, your employer)
- 12-month unemployment insurance (you pay about 5% of your gr. income)
True, but if one doesn't have sufficient money, one's time on this planet will be greatly reduced.
I saw an ad "like this" from my employer. It listed all kinds of specialized skills that only fit one job in our IT department. I found out that the ad was run to satisfy some government regulation for employing foreign workers. Next issue, it ran blind. I imagine that most of these types of ads are for this kind of purpose.
www.mikesmind.com - www.daddyworkathome.com - www.freetofarm.org - www.tenfoottable.com
I know what you mean, I've had to learn alot about tolerance, which is good for ya. And dealing with energy vampires- those that are never content until they make you as miserable as they are. They take more than garlic- you need a completely stable center. As difficult as it is, do you think you're a better person for it?
I've never quite understood the idea of "better" and "worse" people to begin with- must be something in my Asperger's. As far as I'm concerned, people are people and I treat them as such within the limits of my ability. My if-then-else model is a bit more complete now, and I mask my inadequacy better, though. I've got a ton of e-mails from my current contract showing a 98% success rate with customer service. So in that way, I guess I'm a better person.
True, except the fuckers will probably take the money and run and screw everybody.
Well, there is that- the key that I'm working on is building a separate-from-my-standard-contract business on teaching the Internet to the Baby Boomers- who don't currently have a clue but will soon have plenty of time in retirement to get one.
Definitely. It's already happening. Eastern Europe has been in the mix for a while with desperate wage slaves to exploit, Cambodia, etc. The march to pay less will continue until there's no one else for WalMart to squeeze. Just like the British Empire most recently. Already, surprisingly, many poor nations are touting higher costs and better work conditions as a market differentiation. It's gaining steam, and I like to think it's goodwill and an understanding of how the universe works as much as PR appeal, but who knows.
The problem is if you're in a family that was never quite rich to begin with- but assumed that hard work + good education = good life. My son is going to learn the lessons early on that what makes a good life has to come from inside- not out. And that unlike the experience of say, the GI Generation and before- hard work and education mean next to nothing if you don't like yourself first.
ps. A large percentage of things labeled "Made in Italy" are not, because of their very lax labeling laws. Romania especially is making a huge chunk of these products.
As if anybody would notice if they just stamped it "Made in Romania" and sold it for 1/10th the price anybody else could.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
For starters, I've never had a $60K a year job. I've certainly done work where you'd assume or expect that's what I was paid, but actually - more like around $48K was about the most I've seen (and not for quite some time, at that!).
Also, by the mere fact that I do have a kid, almost *everything* changes. For starters, there are a number of jobs I've had to skip over applying for because working in rotating shifts was one of their requirements. (How can you find someone who will take care of a 3 year old for you when you're alternating working mornings, days, and late nights every month or two?) In fact, even "overtime" is extremely troublesome for me, since I have to pick my kid up from daycare no later than 6PM each day. I don't have the option of just "agreeing to work late" with no advance notice, if something comes up. And many of today's employers simply expect that. That's why they're looking to hire people fresh out of college, who don't have a family yet to "get in the way".
I always followed the majority of your listed "points for 16 year olds to learn from" - but a few of them just aren't realistic. For example, I always knew renting was a bad deal - but when I first moved out of my parents' house, I ended up renting an apartment with a roommate. At that point in time, I didn't have any credit history built up yet, nor did I have money for a downpayment on a house. But it was still time to move out (or just become a leech off of my parents - which I don't believe in doing either). When I got the opportunity, I did buy a small house (for well below market value, no less), and pay less on my mortgage each month than some people pay on their car loans. Waiting until a home is fully paid off to get married is ridiculous adivce, IMHO. Marriage should happen whenever 2 people in love with each other feel it's the right step to take. It really shouldn't be governed by how much property someone has paid off. Assuming a healty, normal relationship - both partners should simply be committed to the job of trying to get through life together. If part of that means both people doing their part to keep payments current on a house, so what?
Your point #7, by the way, is very questionable advice in my opinion. That's exactly what I did, and I feel quite certain it's one of the biggest mistakes I made! When you work for small businesses, you don't end up with any recognizable/respectable names of employers to put on your resume, nor do you gain experience working in many scenarios that are only available to people in a very large workplace. Hiring managers see big company names on a resume, and feel more "secure" in a decision to hire you. There's an assumption that a large business has the resources to do more complete background checks and so forth; If you were good enough to get and keep a job with one of them for a length of time, you're probably good enough for the next position too. When you work for small places, it looks more suspicious - like perhaps the business owners were just personal friends who hired you as more of a favor?