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Yahoo and Microsoft to Merge Instant Messengers
Primotech writes "Betanews has word that Microsoft and Yahoo plan to link their respective IM clients again so that users of both can communicate with each other on one, shared network. Facing threats from third-party applications, like Trillian and Skype, the two tech giants will claim 44% of the instant messaging market, analysts predict. They will also go head to head together with the biggest competitor, AOL."
That's interesting, since they have waffled back and forth on the issue of compatibility with other messenger systems. First they complained because they didn't have access to AOL. Then they closed their systems and didn't let others in. Now they are sharing again...does this mean they will grant access to their closed network to all outside clients? Hmmmmmm?
Could this be a step towards a single IM protocol? Not XMPP, but good enough for me :-)
DxBlog - It's where you want to be
I could care less , whatever network things use , its all Transparent to me cause i use Gaim
When are they going to integrate with AIM?
Trillian isn't its own protocol, of course. This is what is somewhat odd about the article: it can't decide whether it's talking about the networks (MSN and YIM combining protocols and having interoperability) or whether they're jointly developing a multi-protocol client (like Trillian, although Trillian does a lot more than just those two).
More than Trillian, Skype and others, i bet that they are more against their common foe, Google/Gmail/GTalk/etc. Maybe against each separate component they can have a chance, but when you start to combine them the potential for growing and taking away their markets is probably too big.
Normally stuff like this from MS makes me shudder with dread. But the lack of a standard communication IM protocal has driven me crazy for years. Trillian and other programs are ways to get around that, of course. But, having a single standard would go a long way, and this is a nice step towards that.
Compete in features you offer in your IM clients, but for heavens sake unify the networks.
You are who you are, let no one tell you different. But, never close your mind to a new point of view.
This merger will only affect those browsing on the intarnet.
http://gaim-vv.sourceforge.net/
LATEST NEWS:
Oct 07, 2005 - Forward potr of gaim-vv 1.2.0 to gaim cvs head is working. I would like to clarify that gaim-vv isn't completely dead, we're working on merging with gaim. There will be no further gaim-vv releases, as code will be added to the main gaim program.
For those who don't know gaim-vv was a friendly fork to get stuff like webcams working - last release allowed users to view webcams from MSN, yahoo
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
I have no buddies on MSN. Most are on either AIM or Yahoo. But I hate the fact that Yahoo seems to not want to develop for Mac OS X anymore. The Mac MSN client is pretty darn good, though, so it would be great to be able to use the MSN client to chat with my Yahoo buddies.
There isn't much money to be made in instant messengers. Maybe a little revenue from advertising in the window corners, maybe a few bucks from premium games, but in all it's mostly a net loss. And you also have the problem that your users may be drawn away from your IM client to another one because of an established group of friends with the other one.
Bringing these two IM clients into compatibility isn't a way to make a stronger IM network, but rather to eliminate the drain that both companies must be feeling. It also helps that it marginalizes AIM and its premium services, which benefits both Yahoo and Microsoft.
I always thought Microsoft would get around to doing this one day. It just seemed the logical next step. Hopefully their next next step will be the ability to have different statuses for specific people in your contact list, and be able to contact people even though you appear offline. Back in the day (get off my lawn, you crazy kids) ICQ had this feature, but since ICQ has been dragged down into a hole by AOL, it's been on my IM wishlist.
Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
Microsoft and Yahoo are set to announce on Wednesday a blockbuster interoperability deal that will reshape the landscape of the fragmented instant messaging market.
I can't wait to message all my friends with gaim to tell them the good news.
I came here for a good argument
This is gonna put alot of pressure on Google and Jabber. I mean Google just entered the market, with MSN and Yahoo and Possibly AIM, there wont be a need for a new contender. I dont think its bad coz that will bring more ppl close together and save installed 100s of IM apps just to talk to all your friends. I do wonder how they will connect them all and whether you will use screennames or e-mail address or whatever.
I can't believe the editors let this one slip by. Yahoo and MS exchanging massages is big news. Maybe MS will finally get laid.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Do the Google IM servers already know how to talk to other Jabber servers or is it still an open protocol in a closed environment?
bash$
make this type of stuff completely irrelevent for techies anyway.
;-)
I own a copy of Trillian 3.1 Pro and I can say that it's the best thing since sliced bread
Yeah, just me and some of my friends that are PhDs and also game developers use Yahoo IM. What's your degree in, and who do you work for...? =)
YIM works on the most mobile phones, and it's nice to use with giam if you also use yahoo mail. Also it's not MSN, ha! =)
It's a version of the GAIM source designed to work within the framework of MacOSX. It will integrate with your address book, supports MSN/Yahoo/ICQ/Bonjour/AIM, and is generally pretty darn spiffy.
I haven't had any of the problems I've had with other clients. It's the closest I've come to Kopete on MacOSX, plus it has some of the problems of Kopete fixed.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
its all Transparent to me cause i use Gaim
But, it's not.
Going to Yahoo!, creating an account, dealing with their spam emails and offers all the time in the future and then logging into Yahoo! with that special Yahoo! account is not transparent whatsoever. And not enough people use Yahoo! to justify creating a special account just to talk to them.
Yahoo! probably realized this and gave up the ship.
Is that the _domestic_ market?
Since what I see here in China, who has the second largest internet user population in the world after the USA, the vast majority uses QQ, which is basically ICQ adapted to a full-fledged Chinese client (all Western IMs have questionable language support and transparency).
There is chat, and then there is chat in a specific context. MSN is fine for chatting with my co-workers, but Yahoo is better for chatting if I am trying get a date. There is no one-purpose-serves-all protocal.. sorry. Bad Idea... I can't wait to see what picks up the slack.
Like Jabber? XMPP is an open specification IM protocol with support for all kinds of neat features (encryption, for one, network bridging for another). The problem isn't in having a protocol, but in convincing everyone to use it and support it. (Yeah, I know, the spec was only finalized more recently than the MSN and Yahoo! networks were created. The point stands, though.)
If they can get AOL in on this too, it could be very bad.
Everyone being able to talk to everyone else would be nice, but there are big downsides if it's a closed network. If it ends up that 9X% of users are on a single A/M/Y-IM network then it would be very hard for anyone else to break into the market.
Google is in very direct competition with Yahoo, and Microsoft sees Google as the biggest threat to their dominance. Now, a couple of months after GTalk's release, Yahoo and MS are ganging together. They aren't doing this because they want their users to benefit (if they really cared they would've done this a long time ago). This is MS and Yahoo trying to keep Google from gaining a foothold in IM.
I really hope Jabber will take off, but this move makes it less likely. With everyone split up over AIM, MSN and Yahoo, Jabber could at least offer a means of unification. Now it's looking like we could get stuck with a single closed network.
If a handful of players lock up the network, innovation will die.
A brief and largely incorrect summary of the current state of things:
MS Messenger: Ships standard on all Windows PC's. Pops up every five minutes asking you if you would like to sign up for service. Causes your computer to explode if you try to uninstall it, or indeed just try to get it to shut up. The fact that this still isn't the #1 instant messaging client should tell you something. I have the most luck with voice chat through firewalls on Messenger.
Aim: Comes automatically with AOL, or you can download it free from aol.com. Also comes free with LOTS and LOTS of ads. Ads pop up on your screen. Ads are built into your client. Smart a$$ movie executives send you ads directly. Sex chatbots try to lure you into filthyness before posting the transcript on Fark. Everyone's personal icon is loud, animated, and obnoxious. In short, AIM is a lot like the internet. And like the internet, nearly everyone uses AIM.
ICQ: Still the greatest communications medium of all time. Really. Greatest ever. (There, I said what you wanted Mr. 3098014563. Now give me my family back, like in the deal.)
Yahoo: No really, Yahoo has a chat medium. I was shocked too. Isn't Yahoo just adorable sometimes? On a side note, I've had better luck getting webcams through firewalls over Yahoo. This leads to great situations where I'm videoconferencing with someone over Yahoo, but the audio stream is in MSN and the chat is happening in Jabber.
Google Chat: Google chat is based on Jabber, the open source next-generation world dominating chat protocol of the fut-- hey, why are you laughing? No seriously, Jabber, which can communicate with AIM and MSN through... Yes it says so on the box. No, I don't care if almost never works. Ok, fine, Jabber, which can sometimes communicate with AIM and MSN through server-side plug ins, is the basis for Google Chat. Unlike all of the other protocols Jabber is an encrypted medium, meaning that even the server doesn't know what is being said. psi is the jabber client of choice, though there are a lot out there. It's also the only reason to buy Trillian Pro. What was that about Google Chat again?
Now if I remember correctly, AIM, as a condition of its merger with Time Warner was required to open its chat network to everyone. It then proceeded to shut out all 3rd party clients and other protocols that had the nerve to try and connect with it. MSN tried to connect to AOL without permission, but kept refusing 3rd party clients that tried to connect to it. We thought Yahoo was shutting out 3rd party clients as well, but it turns out they just broke their system a few times. Oops. Jabber will sleep with anyone, and Jabber servers will sleep with other Jabber servers. Jabber servers will even sleep with AOL and MSN, but only if they're really happy or really drunk. ICQ... I refuse to say anything about ICQ on the grounds that ICQ users are even more insane than Apple users.
All of this is very close to e-mail, circa 1992... Back when AOL, Compuserve, and all of the rest of the providers thought that locking their users into their system would keep the most people. Then AOL bought them all, and the whole thing seemed kind of moot.
The ______ Agenda
I would _really_ prefer a widespread jabber net, complete with client->server and client->client encryption, but that seems to be a pipe dream.
All hope for this lies with Google - if enough people start using Google Talk, Google will extend the protocol to make it support the features people want, and third parties will update their clients to add support (and then other third parties will update their servers to add support for the new features in the updated clients). If Google Talk doesn't take off, Jabber will continue to suck.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
What I would like to see is active adoption of Jabber by the big players. Jabber for the most part is still like Ogg Vorbis: "interesting, but who's using it?". Google using it is certainly helping push its adoption, but at this point in time I haven't heard of any ISPs, or Fortune 500 companies, actively taking it up and connecting. Apple has also chipped into the effort, by providing a Jabber server as part of MacOS X, but how long before we see that rub off I am not sure.
Voice chat and video chat are the next two aspects that need to become part of the Jabber portfolio and adopted.
Looking at the road ahead voice chat is going to be migrate into telephony, but before it does certain things must happen first. Telephony needs to support emergency services, until then players like Google will state 'this is not a telephony service', in order to avoid FTC type regulations. The steps I see are:
We can't predict what the future will hold, but we can influence the journey getting there.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
If they tried, too few would stay on their side of the divide. Microsoft is too predatory this way; looks like a coy maneuver to get Yahoo out of the way of MSN messenger. Maybe Yahoo thought that their messanger was doomed anyway and Redmond made it worth their while?
Wow, just what we need now days. I realize that it was popular in the past, but really... we have VOIP and did that like 3 or 4 years ago, so whats the great deal about IM? (at least for me it sucks) I generally gab with my bro via a cell phone and there ya go. Painless, free (if you have a decent plan) and that's about it.
Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
Just so you know, Drunkenbatman had this pegged.
Within the last few weeks, there appears to have been a meeting between MSN, Yahoo and AOL. They'd all been talking amongst themselves -- and sparsely with each other -- about how to respond to Google, but were still trying to make up their minds...
The Cow Abides
Okay, so a philosopher, a philologist, and a philatelist walk into a bar...
It depends in the area and quite frankly in certain cases the age of the users. Yahoo! seems to have an older (in terms of age) user base than does AIM. Also I've noticed in certain areas one client is more popular than others. I was part of a now defunct web based chat system that had a large number of users from a few towns in Indiana (not that I am from there) which spread via word of mouth, a large majority of them seem to have migrated over to Yahoo! messenger (there is a way on the now defunct site to share contact info with other ex-users so they can get in contact with you). In my experience AIM is far more popular, but Yahoo! has a user base as well.
Disclaimer: I run the ursine.ca Jabber server.
The yahoo transport sucks donkeyballs. It's unreliable and crashes for no reason, usually while I'm trying to get other work done. As evil as Microsoft typically is, they're doing us a favor: Now Jabber only has to maintain two or three transports and none of them involving some bletcherous hack from jabberd's transports if you're using the otherwise far easier to deal with ejabberd. Microsoft has to have their way, so you can pretty much kiss the YIM protocol good bye and everybody with a YIM ID suddenly having @yahoo.com Passports instead, and good riddance. Now there's only two proprietary protocols left: Oscar (AIM/ICQ) and MSN.
The 80 gajillion Google fanboys are suddenly able to access the rest of the IM landscape that isn't stuck in the last millennium with their Google Talk JID. Google users and the rest of the Jabber network rejoice, AOL shits itself seeing headlights coming from both directions.
Microsoft and Time Warner are going to strike a deal that will be kind of like AOL announcing that October 1993 would effectively follow January 2005 on the Usenet calendar. Except instead of AOL continuing to exist, Time Warner flushes AOL like an unwanted fetus on prom night, selling it out to Microsoft. Microsoft has to have their way, so you can pretty much kiss the Oscar protocol goodbye. Everybody with AIM IDs suddenly get @aim.com passports. Everybody at ICQ gets @icq.com passports.
And then there was one. MSN Messenger fights to the bitter death, losing mindshare bit by bit until 10 years from now, Microsoft's holding an empty bag and wondering how the hell they missed the boat on IM. Everybody loves Google, and many will switch to Google Talk on basis of name recognition alone. Thank God that they don't abuse that power.
(And in other news, the Portland Winterhawks probably won't make the playoffs this year. Again. Dammit.)
Help us build a better map!
Hurry, While Supplies Last!
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
I have a Yahoo account, and I've never received spam from Yahoo.
The other steps you mention (creating an account and having to log in) are standard for any service. How is Yahoo different?
When you set up a Yahoo! account for IM, you can give them a "spammy" email account that you only check whenever you need to supply an email address for something.
I did that when I linked my Trillian into Yahoo! and it's worked great. Except for very recently when Yahoo upgraded it's file sharing and now Trillian needs to play catch-up or something.
-David
Thank God that they don't abuse that power.
Oh ye of too much faith. Google is a company. Wait till their share price starts dropping and then we'll see if we thank them for not abusing their power.
Recent usage statistics actually look a bit like this:
Of course, there is also Jabber which was 10 million at last count which was a couple of years ago but more than likely growing. There is also QQ messenger, which supposedly has over 100 million users, but every news story like this conveniently ignores.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
I think you're mixing topics a bit here:
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Please explain:
-Why Yahoo's search "sucks". Please give examples of a specific Google search outperforming Yahoo.
-Why Google maps won't print right.
-Why Yahoo has traffic on their maps when Google apparently invents every new feature on the Internet.
Vote Libertarian
I wonder what they'll do about user IDs for transporting between the two services. What I mean is, from MSN's side, you want to add a Yahoo user, say he's called "Bob" on Yahoo.
Maybe they'll let you add him just as "Bob" on MSN, which would be a significant problem for MSN because they assume that all IDs are emails for various purposes.
They can't let you add him as "bob@yahoo.com", because Bob might actually be using that Yahoo email address as his username on MSN.
Maybe they'll have to go about it to the extreme and add to both the IDs. So you would add Bob as "bob@Yahoo", but you would add your fellow MSN contact as "jane@example.com@MSN".
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
I can't understand why Americans say "I could care less" - the sentence makes no sense... what does it mean? I could care less if I tried? If I wanted to? It always seems to be used in the context of "I could NOT care less" or, "It doesn't bother me", "I'm not interested." It means the exact opposite though! Are you just too lazy to type the extra 3 characters? (n't)?
Any there American Etymologists around who can explain this?
And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
Whilst I agree, hating the lack of offline messages - likewise with MSN, when was the last time you used AIM? I've used both audio and video on it for a long long time now.
Have a look about half way down this page
http://www.word-detective.com/061405.html
Basically, the sarcasm that the "could care less" form uses, implies the missing negative - probably shouldn't be used online given sarcasm is harder to do in written text.
The phrase supposedly started in America a few decades ago, but it's spread to the rest of the world by now. The etymology isn't entirely clear (some people think it could've been intended to be sarcastic, or that it was misread in print), but it's probably the simplest one -- it's the same reason people say 'case and point' and 'for all intensive purposes' and 'supposively'. People say it so often that eventually some of them become ignorant of the actual meaning and just repeat it however.
I don't think most people actually intend to say it incorrectly but, in my experience, they also refuse to change when they are told that it's wrong. I guess they just... couldn't... care less....
you couldn't care less
COULDN'T CARE LESS
Godamn it. I hope you fall down some stairs.
Or at the very least, fix your webcams streaming and audio, guys. Audio's generally fine (minus Yahoo's sudden stopping if it detects a period of constant volume level, so sometimes I'm playing my guitar with hands-free on and the damned program stops streaming my audio,) but when I want to videochat with my mother, I don't want super mode dropping out on me, suddenly, without any reason or cause, and we both know we've touched nothing that would make it stop.
MSN fares no better with it's astonishingly fast 3-6 fps. Screw that. Camfrog does this better. IM, voice, video, and even has some pretty awesome video chat rooms. It's good enough for deaf people to speak using sign language on cam. Does that tell you how good it is? You two should strive to be more like that program, Yahoo and Microsoft. It's small, (compared to Yahoo's 10 meg install size and MSN's 11.5 meg install,) it's fast, and it WORKS. Camfrog's only downside is it's 2k/XP only, though I understand there may be an OSX version in development.
MSN's audio sucks even more. MSN needs to be like Yahoo, and add a PUSH TO TALK BUTTON. Nothing is more annoying than feedback in my headphones, thanks to my Logitech's mic/webcam combo (quickcam messenger) having an uber-sensitive microphone. It's almost at it's lowest possible level and it's still getting feedback off of my headphones, with me sitting about 4 feet from the microphone.
Can we fix our programs first, guys?
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
The yahoo transport sucks donkeyballs.
And how much did you fucking pay for it? I seriously don't know why everyone here is so down on yahoo. Besides overcommercialising everything, they provide absoloutely great services for free, the best of which is their yahoo messenger. Its the only place where the relatively uninitiated can log in and chat to complete strangers a planet away. MSN won't let you do it without paying them. And don't talk to me about the IRC channels; yahoo is to them what a concorde is to a guy jumping off his house.
Trillian, jabber, all of these might be technically slightly better under the hood, but in terms of end user experience, the slick and FREE package offered by yahoo is so far ahead that these chat clients will in all probability never catch up.
I have met some fascinating people and turned up a great deal of commercial opportunity by the use of yahoo. Where else can you click a button and chat to people from Vietnam to Africa to Brazil to the US? I was talking to an Iranian woman there the last day. She astounded me with her quick witted and very together responses. Not at all what I expected from what I assumed would be a trampled-upon muslim female. Then again, she was astounded to hear the US was threatening to invade her country, so you live and learn, eh...
Yahoo isn't sharp enough to be google, and its not evil enough to be microsoft. Its like the bumbling uncle of the internet. Yahoo mail is solid as a rock, and so simple to use that it beats most client side interfaces hands down. And did I mention free? Honestly, most of the crying about yahoo comes back to their use of advertising. If you don't like advertising, give back your TV. Because its not much use without any programming. And you may as well return your DVD collection too. And polish up your credit cards for slashdot's coffers, because you can bet Taco and co aren't going to fork over the fees for bandwidth so you can whine publicly about advertising and its evils. And google, everyone's favourite, would not be here tomorrow if you turned off the advertising (unlike M$).
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
I could care less as well...
But 99% of my friends would trash Gaim as soon as they opened it.
It's missing the features that makes msn messenger special, all those neat winks, backgrounds, packages and more. It's what makes it fun for them.
I understand Gaim will soon have video but that was a requirement more than a year ago, messengers have continued advancing and now there is much more catchup to do.
Trillian works because of its simplicity, these companies need a standard IM protocol and then let the best interface win!
I prefer the stripped down versions like 'DeadAim' where only the most basic features work. I have no need for stock updates, sports scores and directed advertising. Is this too much to ask?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
at least your contact/buddy list is stored server side. anyway, heres an answer,
http://thekonst.net/centericq
ssh home when you want it.
if you want to keep it running, see http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/screen.html
also see http://gaim.sf.net/
gaims chat logs can simply be copied into eachother since each "conversation" is a seperate file.
its probably runs on all the platforms you need (the latest always compiles out of the box on os x with fink)
there are a few remote file shares you can use, some of which work over ssh, and thus your prefs/logs etc
can be kept with them. or you can simply script your client to sync whenever it starts / stops / whenever,
which would thus be transparent (and probably faster with something like rsync)
so anyway, yea, its sad that in this day and age, we dont have software working together much, but at least
you can work around it. centericq is a pretty simple way to not have to worry about any of it, all you need
is ssh. thus the beuty of remote apps. if you dont like centericqs interface, check out http://bitlbee.org/
to use an irc client instead.
Is this the worlds first example of a British person not understanding
American sarcasm?
I knew our education system was getting worse but...
If its link, sure that might be ok.
If its merge, this will be the beginning of the end of yahoo. Next will be yahoomail/hotmail.. then more an more until they are absorbed by microsoft.
Is google really hurting yahoo that much to want to sell out to the antichrist?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
As far as I know, MSN is more popular in Europe and AIM/Yahoo more popular in the states
We'll have to name it "GIMP Isn't a Messaging Protocol" to prevent confusion. :)
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Yes, because they are idiots.
Seriously, just because a bunch of people do something, doesn't make it acceptable or even defensible if you want to be taken seriously.
Any of the examples that you mentioned would be unacceptable for an 8th grader; any adult who uses them ought to be subject to whatever amount of public ridicule is required to keep them from doing it again.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
And digitalsurgeon demonstrates the apparent intelligence of a 4th grader failing English while writing his post. No wonder he's on MSN...
Don't insult the 4th graders, it takes several more years of schooling in America to get that bad at English.
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
But 99% of my friends would trash Gaim as soon as they opened it.
It's missing the features that makes msn messenger special, all those neat winks, backgrounds, packages and more. It's what makes it fun for them.
You know, you probably don't want to let on that all your "friends" are 14 year old girls. The FBI usually doesn't look too kindly upon that.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
You know, you probably don't want to let on that all your "friends" are 14 year old girls. The FBI usually doesn't look too kindly upon that.
It's cool if "he" is also a 14 year old girl. But in that case, what is "he" doing reading Slashdot? Everyone knows Slashdot is entirely peopled with ugly nerdy dudes.
-- Dave
Making fun of dumb people since 2009