Slashdot Mirror


Apple Unveils New Pro Products

porcupine8 writes "As many had speculated, today Apple unveiled upgrades to their PowerBook and Power Mac lines (although no PowerBook G5). They also introduced a new professional photography application known as Aperture, rounding out their software lineup for creative professionals. Can't wait to find out what they announce next week!"

111 of 590 comments (clear)

  1. my take on the new PowerMacs by Tumbleweed · · Score: 5, Informative

    So the dual-core G5 finally arrived (with the top end machine having 2 of them), plus PCIe and 533MHz DDR2. I expected PCIe, but didn't expect DDR2. This is a very nice transition machine to wait for the Intel Macs.

    Things to note:

    All nVidia videocards, now -- one of which is a Quadro FX 4500 for $1650. Nice knowin' ya, ATI, don't let the door hit you in the rear on the way out.

    "In addition to the 16-lane graphics slot, the Power Mac G5 features three PCI Express expansion slots: two four-lane slots and one eight-lane slot. Each slot uses a standard connector that can accommodate a card of any size."

    This mobo has better PCIe support than any other mobo I've heard about, by _far_. Crazy. 2 x4 slots and an x8? The new Fibre Channel Card seems to be an x4 PCIe, which is the first x4 card I've heard of. There are hardly any x1 cards, yet, either, and PCIe has been out quite a while.

    Dual gigabit ethernet now, too, instead of just single. (they were just single before, right?)

    The optional modem is now an external USB dongle style model, instead of an internal card. The end of an era. Good riddance.

    I guess Apple finally stepped into the 'future.' :)

    The bad:

    Only SATA '1', no 'SATA2' (no such thing, really, but...).

    Still only 2 internal HDs? C'mon - these are supposed to be workstations, Apple. Get with it.
    I wants my internal RAID 10!

    I'm definitely waiting for the Intel Macs, but for those who are opposed to the idea of an Intel Mac, these machines are about as sweet as one could ask for. The low-end PowerMac is now a 2gHz dual-core G5, which is pretty nice (and meets the recommended specs for their new application, Aperture, as long as you upgrade the hell out of the RAM).

    1. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by Pfhor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My one take away issue is the fact that a lot of audio card makers are having trouble getting high quality audio out of their PCIe cards. as mentioned here. Everybody else will start cranking out the 8 port SATA 2 cards soon (I don't think they have settled on that standard yet, have they?), looking around i've seen x1 firewire cards, but x4 multiport fw800s cards are sure to be in the works also.

    2. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, the current PowerMacs DO NOT meet the minimum specs for Aperture. The graphics card included will all new PowerMacs (NVidia 6600, with either 128MB for the low/mid and 256MB for the high) is not listed as meeting the minimum requirements. The "lowest" NVidia card listed is the 9800.

    3. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by daveschroeder · · Score: 4, Informative
      All nVidia videocards, now -- one of which is a Quadro FX 4500 for $1650. Nice knowin' ya, ATI, don't let the door hit you in the rear on the way out.

      ...except that the new iMac, introduced just a week ago, uses ATI Radeon X600 and X600 XT PCI Express graphics.

      They're not all the way out of the door yet. ;-)

    4. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmm, sort of true. The 9800 is an ATI, not nVidia, but you're right about the base videocards not meeting the recommended spec. I'd be willing to bet the requirements having the most affect on Aperture are memory and CPU speed (in that order), though who knows.

    5. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also now avalable: ECC memory.

      No self-respecting workstation went without it (same with the graphics cards), and finally, Apple has true workstations available, not just high end desktops priced like workstations.

    6. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I also noticed that the prices of 23" and 30" displays dropped, to $1299 from $1499 on the 23", to $2499 from $2999 on the 30".

    7. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2, Informative

      The point was that _all_ the videocards on the PowerMacs are nVidia, now - not an ATI to be found.

    8. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by Drakino · · Score: 4, Informative

      All nVidia videocards, now -- one of which is a Quadro FX 4500 for $1650. Nice knowin' ya, ATI, don't let the door hit you in the rear on the way out.

      Woo. NVidia is making all the cards in the PowerMacs. ATI is still making the graphics chip in the iMacs, the Mac Mini, and all the laptops except the 12 inch Powerbook.

      Apple has used products from both sides and continues to do so. Nothing changed here. NVidia lost the iMac, and ATI lost the PowerMac.

    9. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by klui · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This mobo has better PCIe support than any other mobo I've heard about, by _far_.

      I think Apple can do better by creating a space for the graphics card's fan. I still don't understand why mobo manufacturers continue to include a slot where in most cases people have video card fans that render that slot useless.

    10. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Also now avalable: ECC memory.

      No self-respecting workstation went without it

      As an experiment, for the last couple of months, I've left a process running at home, and one at work, that simply has a 128 MB buffer, filled with a simple data pattern. Every 60 seconds, it checks the buffer, to see if any of the data has changed. Because it is accessing it like this, it stays resident.

      Result: no errors.

      Based on the expected RAM error rates I was able to find by Googling, I expected to see several errors by now. However, all the published data I could find was a few years old, and presumably RAM has been made more resistant to error. Whatever the reason, experiment seems to say that ECC is not as necessary as some think.

    11. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by pohl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I called the apple store to ask about whether the new video cards have cooling fans or just passive heat-sinks...the answer is that all of the video cards offered have cooling fans. The technical representative that I spoke to was not able to comment on how much noise these new machines make compared to the previous line. He said that they've only known about the new machines for a few hours, and it usually takes a few days for the developer notes to get to the techies that answer the phones.

      --

      The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...

    12. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by statusbar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Although what you say may be true, your test is flawed with regard to SDRAM refresh. Try make it verify the memory once every day instead.

      Jeff

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    13. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by Qwerpafw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most high quality audio cards are extrenal, and use FW400 or FW800. The Digi002 is a great example of this--the 001 used a PCI card, but the 002 is Firewire.

      Firewire carries all the bandwidth you need, and lets you put your audio interface in a rack or console where it belongs.

    14. Re:my take on the new PowerMacs by wulfhound · · Score: 2, Informative

      Firewire is fine for bandwidth, but PCI and presumably PCIe beat it somewhat for latency.

      There's a lot of PCI cards still in use for pro-audio work -- all the "big" Pro Tools systems run off PCI, for a start -- not to mention accelerators like UAD-1, Powercore etc.. if Magma (or somebody) don't come out with a PCIe-to-PCI bridge and external enclosure, these things won't fly for pro audio.

  2. Details by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Informative

    As usual, the submission leaves out critical details.

    The new Power Mac G5 highlights include dual core G5 processors (IBM PowerPC 970MP), PCI Express, DDR2 RAM, and dual gigabit ethernet on all models:

    Single 2.0, single 2.3, or dual 2.5 GHz dual-core IBM PowerPC 970MP (G5) processor
    1.0, 1.15, or 1.25 GHz frontside bus per processor
    512MB PC2-4200 DDR2 RAM, expandable to 16GB
    160GB or 250GB Serial ATA drive
    16x dual layer CD-RW/DVD+/-RW SuperDrive
    Three open PCI Express expansion slots: two four-lane slots and one eight-lane slot
    NVIDIA GeForce 6600, 6600 LE, 7800 GT, or Quadro FX 4500 video
    Dual gigabit ethernet
    USB 2.0, FireWire 400 (IEEE-1394), FireWire 800 (IEEE-1394b)
    AirPort Extreme (802.11g), Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
    Analog and optical digital audio in and out
    Mighty Mouse (Two button scroll mouse)

    The new PowerBook highlights include higher resolution screens, longer battery life, and standard SuperDrives:

    1.67 GHz Freescale PowerPC 7458[1] (G4) processor, 512MB PC2700 DDR RAM, expandable to 2GB, 80GB or 120GB Ultra ATA/100 drive
    8x dual layer CD-RW/DVD+/-RW SuperDrive
    1440x960 (15") or 1680x1050 (17") resolution screen
    ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 with 128MB DDR SDRAM and dual-link DVI (supports 30" display)
    Gigabit ethernet, 56K V.92 modem, PC Card slot
    USB 2.0, FireWire 400 (IEEE-1394), FireWire 800 (IEEE-1394b)
    AirPort Extreme (802.11g), Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
    Illuminated keyboard
    Analog and optical digital audio in and out
    DVI/VGA/composite/S-Video out

    Also new is the amazing pro photography software Aperture, as well as new lower pricing on Apple Displays.

    I might as well send my writeup on last week's announcements as well, since the submission (and discussion) there were really light on info too...

    ---

    iMac G5

    A new, even thinner, iMac G5 with an integrated 640x480 iSight camera and integrated media center software called Front Row.

    1.9 or 2.1 GHz IBM PowerPC 970fx (G5) processor
    512MB PC2-4200 RAM, expandable to 2.5GB
    160GB or 250GB Serial ATA drive
    8x dual layer CD-RW/DVD+/-RW SuperDrive
    ATI Radeon X600 Pro or XT PCI-Express video
    Gigabit ethernet, USB 2.0, FireWire 400 (IEEE-1394)
    AirPort Extreme (802.11g), Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
    1/8" stereo audio or optical out, 1/8" line in
    VGA/composite/S-Video out
    Mighty Mouse (Two button scroll mouse)

    The inclusion of PCI-Express and PC2-4200 RAM in the new iMac bodes well for the upcoming updates to the Power Macs and PowerBooks.

    ---

    Front Row

    Media center software currently only included with the iMac G5. Allows for seamless interface with music, movies, movie trailers, pictures, TV shows, and so on via either the iMac's screen or an external screen such as a projector or TV. Includes an infrared remote control. A demonstration of Front Row is available here.

    It is likely that Front Row will make its way to other products in the near future, such as the Mac mini. It is only available for the iMac G5 "at this time", according to Apple.

    The one feature of typical media centers that Front Row does not support is TV recording. But Apple seems to have a different idea for TV shows, as will be seen below. (However, TV recording can be accomplished with a wide variety of third party tuners.)

    ---

    iPod (iPod video)

    Apple introduced two new iPods to completely replace the existing "larger" iPods. The same height and width as the older i

    1. Re:Details by daveschroeder · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you're still within the return period on that display (wherever you bought it from, which you hopefully should be if it's only 2 weeks), I'd either:

      1.) Get a price adjustment, or

      2.) "Return" it, after all it's still within the return period, right? (assuming it is); then, re-buy it

    2. Re:Details by ek_adam · · Score: 4, Funny
      I can't help but notice the omission of "faster processor" there, is there really no boost in speed? Yikes!

      No, the Yikes PowerMac was the original 400MHz G4 Powermac revealed in August 1999.

      ;)

    3. Re:Details by daviddennis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are, in fact, correct. There is no boost in speed. 1.67ghz yesterday, 1.67ghz today.

      As someone who's quite likely to buy the 17" model, I can say that the increase in resolution was more important to me than the 0.2ghz increase in speed some people had anticipated. And the price decrease was certainly welcome.

      Aperture looks fantastic, but I think they'd sell a lot more copies at $299 than $499. Ouch! I think it's comparable in complexity and sophistication to Motion, which also sells for $299, so I'm really disappointed by the price. Also, it lacks layers, although it does support non-destructive editing, so it can't serve as a substitute for Photoshop, although I'm quite sure that I'll prefer it to Photoshop for the things it can do. Since I work for an educational institution, I can and most likely will buy it at the $249 educational price, but as a hobby photographer I couldn't just ify $499, while I was able to justify $299 for Motion just fine.

      D

    4. Re:Details by Bake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right, .... sort of.

      As of yesterday, Apple offered two versions of the PowerBook series (at least the 15" and 12" or 17" too IIRC). The cheaper versions were at 1.5Ghz while the more expensive version was at 1.67Ghz.

      In other words, they simply dropped the cheaper, only-barely slower versions.

  3. Aperture info by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 5, Informative

    Aperture is geared toward professional photographers. It allows you to work directly with RAW files (as well as many other file types). It is similar to Googles Picassa but on steroids. It doesnt look like it will compete with Photoshop though at this stage. It is more of a basic organization and editing program. It looks pretty slick but has some fairly hefty system requirements.

    1. Re:Aperture info by Mikey-San · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It is similar to Googles Picassa but on steroids.

      More accurately:

      Aperture : Google's Picasa :: Final Cut Pro : iMovie

      --
      Mikey-San
      Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
    2. Re:Aperture info by archdetector · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Aperture's feature set is different from Photoshop's, yes, but where they overlap is significant from a photographer's point of view. I'd say that 95% of what I do to photos is now covered by Aperture. I'll still need PS, but as of today it's been relegated to secondary importance, and will be much more easily replaced if something simpler/cheaper/better comes along. For people like graphic designers and digital artists, Aperture may only be a nice accompaniment to PS, but for photographers, this is huge. It's actually quite perfect.

    3. Re:Aperture info by mozumder · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It looks to use CoreImage for it's image processing, which would be cool, as that would mean it uses the GPU for image processing. The demo shows some very responsive image processing. My goddammed photoshop CS1 RAW import may take a day just to generate thumbnails from RAW files. I am so upgrading.

    4. Re:Aperture info by shotfeel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Looks to me like Apple showing what can be done with Core Image.

    5. Re:Aperture info by badasscat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If this is just an organization and editing program, then how is this any different than iPhoto?

      RAW workflow. Apple is calling this "the first of its kind" in that it can work directly on RAW images, but that's not true. I'm not sure if the parent poster really knew what he was talking about or not, but from looking through the features this has on Apple's web site, it does seem that Picasa 2.1 does pretty much the exact same things, and Picasa is free.

      (There are probably things that Apple doesn't mention that people like me would consider pretty important, but I can only go by what's on their web site right now. I'm interested to learn more, as a real Photoshop-level app that can work straight on RAW files might be enough to get me to finally switch to Mac.)

      It is highly desirable to work directly on RAW files, which as Apple says is "non-destructive", i.e. all of your original sensor data is still there. This is not the case when working with RAW files in Photoshop, which have to be rasterized even before they're actually opened. You can make basic adjustments in Adobe Camera RAW before the file is opened but to do real retouching, you have to rasterize and open in Photoshop itself.

      Picasa will let you do editing and retouching on the RAW file, then export it after you've edited. But Picasa's tools are pretty basic. Apple might offer more, but under their "all the tools you need" sidebar on the web site, they just list the same stuff Picasa does and that even Adobe Camera RAW will mostly do. The real questions for me are:

      a) does Aperture support layers?
      b) does Aperture have a clone tool/healing brush/patch tool? These are the tools I use most often for actual retouching.
      c) does Aperture support 16 bit images? (My guess is it would pretty much have to in order to truly support RAW, but I don't think they specifically say it does anywhere.)

      If the answers to all of these questions are "yes", I'm tempted. If the answers to any one out of the three are "no", then it's really a worthless app if you've got Picasa, and especially if you've already got a combination of Picasa and Photoshop. (So you can use Picasa for images that need only light retouching, and Photoshop for the heavy stuff that Aperture wouldn't be suited for either.)

      Of course, both Apple and Adobe will probably improve their products to compete with each other as time goes on. I would love to see true RAW support in Photoshop itself and I would love to see more features in Aperture. Adobe has had no real serious competition in pro image editing for a good while up to now.

    6. Re:Aperture info by b17bmbr · · Score: 5, Funny

      what, is this some SAT joke? Why don't we just say linux:desktop :: windows:servers

      </humor>

      --
      My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
    7. Re:Aperture info by MilSF1 · · Score: 2, Informative
      a. Doesn't look like it - it supports flattened PSD files. I think Apple is wanting you to use this before you get it into Photoshop, or if you don't need to touch up an image THAT much.

      b. "With its Spot tool, Aperture provides one-click, nondestructive removal of spots, dust, and blemishes. For more serious anomalies, Aperture packs a Patch tool. It can easily clone pixels from one area to another, and it offers precise controls (for softness, radius, opacity, and angle), letting you create perfect, seamless blends." (http://www.apple.com/aperture/process/)

      c. Couldn't find it either

      Look at the default metadata categories that it offers - EXIF, IPTC, Photo Specs, Photojournalism, Stock Metadata, Wedding. It looks like Apple is aiming at the photographer who goes back to the hotel after a day of shooting, chooses his 80-90 shots he wants, does quick touch-ups on a dozen or so and sends them off to an editor or wire service to pick which one to run. It can be Photoshopped later if it needs to be.

    8. Re:Aperture info by samkass · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm not clear on whether you've already reviewed Apple Aperture site at:
      Tech specs: http://www.apple.com/aperture/specs.html
      Quicktime tours: http://www.apple.com/aperture/quicktours/
      Screenshots: http://www.apple.com/aperture/gallery/

      It looks like the answers might be:
      a) no (I don't see any evidence of overlays. For experimenting, instead of working on a layer it just keeps every version you've created, like a version-control system)
      b) yes (Dust, spot, blemish, red-eye, patch tools, and Lift and Stamp tool to copy and paste adjustments)
      c) Doesn't say, but they definitely are pushing the RAW support hard, so probably yes

      It looks like the real power of this app is workflow, not necessarily per-image features. The "stacking", tools, loupe, "lightboard" UI, integration with Automator (MacOS X's system-wide scripting), and similar attention to workflow issues. The Automator support seems like it could be especially interesting, since you can control many applications and integrate them with a Aperture workflow, and create a single script for photo operations, file, network transfer, searches, etc.

      It seems more like an iPhoto-on-steroids, and something you'd want to add to a Photoshop-like app, rather than something that could replace the creative content creation apps.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    9. Re:Aperture info by dr.badass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      is similar to Googles Picassa but on steroids.

      I think maybe Apple's own iPhoto might be a better comparison. It blows both right out of the water, though.

      It doesnt look like it will compete with Photoshop though at this stage. It is more of a basic organization and editing program.

      I am not a professional photographer, but I think it's more than competitive with Photoshop for that market already. Dispite the name, Photoshop isn't especially tailored for photographer's workflows. Aperture is, and I can definitely see people who don't need Photoshop's other editing capabilities making the switch. Just as they did with their last new pro product, Motion, they've created something that doesn't quite resemble anything else out there.

      It looks pretty slick but has some fairly hefty system requirements.

      I find the reason why to be really interesting. Instead of making duplicate copies for your edited photos (as you would with most tools), Aperture just stores the CoreImage filter settings for each version, and re-applies them to the original when you view them. It just saves "the diffs". But instead of having to actively re-render the filters each time you want to make a change, as you would with Photoshop, you can just adjust the filter's settings in realtime (or close enough to realtime). In other words, CoreImage is the shit, and it requires some decent hardware to run at a respectable rate.

      --
      Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
    10. Re:Aperture info by Moofie · · Score: 2, Funny

      "creative content creation apps"

      Wow, like you get from the Department of Redundancy Department?

      Snark snark...

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    11. Re:Aperture info by CatOne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't believe Aperture *HAS* to support layers. Because it keeps a record of the manipulations that you do, and CoreImage dynamically does them on the fly, and shows you the file with the updates applied. CoreImage uses the GPU so it's fast enough that you don't actually have to save the effects, as layers.

      The huge bonus there would be in this for me is... a 10 MB RAW file ends up being a 150-500 MB .PSD document with 10 layers and sharpening applied. Which is freaking ridiculous, and absolutely KILLS the machine. CoreImage should give you about 90% more disk space for your RAW files... as it seems Aperture keeps 2 files (one is the original RAW, and one's the updated one with data about the effects).

      The answers to your other two questions are a definite yes.

    12. Re:Aperture info by jcr · · Score: 4, Informative

      a) does Aperture support layers?

      It will preserve the layers in PSD files, but its own editing doesn't really fit that description. Aperture keeps a list of operations to apply to the original image.

      b) does Aperture have a clone tool/healing brush/patch tool? These are the tools I use most often for actual retouching.

      Yes.

      c) does Aperture support 16 bit images? (My guess is it would pretty much have to in order to truly support RAW, but I don't think they specifically say it does anywhere.)

      Even better: Aperture uses Core Image, so it works in floating point.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    13. Re:Aperture info by moosesocks · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, no, no. You've got it all wrong.

      First off, comparing it to picasa is heresy. The target audiences are COMPLETELY different, and Picasa lacks many of the features geared twoard pro photographers. The tools for comparing several shots at once is definitely a boon to pro photographers as is the speed at which the program operates.

      This program is not meant to replace photoshop by any means. Apple openly acknowledges that PS is the king of image post-processing. aperture is inttended to work alongside photoshop as a means of processing RAW images. The type of manipulations that are performed while in RAW are completely different than those that you'd normally use in a program like photoshop or picasa. Cloning/healing/patch are distinctly post-processing operations that modify the content of the image itself. What aperture does is modify the manner in which the image is diasplayed (ie. it changes how it interprets sensor data to boost saturation, exposure, reduce noise, etc.).

      It can be compared most easily to Adobe Bridge or Camera RAW. Camera RAW works fairly nicely with photoshop for processing small batches of images, but is cumbersome for processing large jobs. Bridge is a complement to camera RAW in that it provides an interface for organizing photos ala. iPhoto. What aperture aims to do is to intergrate the two into one seamless program. Many pro photographers use iPhoto and the likes to organize photos, simply because it's very easy to use despite lacking some major features.

      By non-destructive, I'm pretty sure apple means that they save a set of 'instructions' as to how you've modified the photo, instead of modifying the photo itself.

      I'm not saying the proram is any good. I've never used it, and I don't think anyone else here has. All I'm saying is that it looks fairly unique thus far. There's really nothing quite like it on the market (save for some of the super-high-end tools from extensis and the like)

      I predict that apple's next move will be to expand aperture or add another program to compete directly with photoshop. You can tell apple's nervious of adobe's loyalty to their platform. As much as I love Photoshop, I'd love to see some real competition.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  4. No PowerBook G5 by Mikey-San · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Although, no PowerBook G5."

    Were you asleep during the Intel announcement?

    Everyone who actually thinks there will be G5 PowerBooks at this point, please stand up.

    Crickets?

    --
    Mikey-San
    Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
    1. Re:No PowerBook G5 by WMD_88 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple has never, until today, offered a 7200rpm hard drive in a PowerBook. You are either mistaken or you put the drive in yourself.

    2. Re:No PowerBook G5 by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 2, Informative

      On second glance, you are right. This has a 5400rpm. So at least it's not a downgrade, but it's certainlly not much of an upgrade either.

    3. Re:No PowerBook G5 by admactanium · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Hell, I'm amazed anyone is actually planning on buying ANY Apple hardware based on the obsolete PowerPC architecture.
      you're looking at it from the wrong way. i'm a professional art director/graphic designer and i ordered a quad core this morning when i woke up. a lot of small studios and pro who aren't on a strict purchasing schedule have been waiting a very long time for this machine. the reason being, we all know the intel transition is coming. i would be one of the first early adopters of it IF i knew that my needed graphics apps were going to be ported quickly and the bugs of the processor transition were squashed. but since we don't know really when the all the apps will be ready, we need a machine that is future-proofed for a couple of years.

      i'm looking for a machine to last me for probably two to three years. it's likely i won't switch to the intel platform until the second generation and i bet a lot of other pros are waiting it out as well. ppc is a known quantity and familiarity and predicability are very important when you rely on your computer and third party apps to make a living. so i'll stick on ppc until i KNOW that all the issues are worked out on intel. a quad 2.5 machine is the perfect machine to tide me over until macintel gen 2.

  5. Powerbook Resolution by rjstanford · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Finally Apple has upped the resolution on their powerbooks to something more reasonable (at least, reasonable to me - other people have different requirements). Whoops, no, I tell a lie, its only on their 15" and 17" models. The 12" i^HpowerBook is still at 1024x768. If this had been equally increased, I'd be very happy. As it is, the form factor is perfect but the resolution just too limiting for it to be my standard road machine.

    --
    You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    1. Re:Powerbook Resolution by Thu25245 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The 12" i^HpowerBook is still at 1024x768

      And it's hard enough to read at that resolution. Trust me, I have one, and I use an external monitor to take some of the burden of of my eyes. Remember, a Mac has traditionally rendered 1point=1pixel.

    2. Re:Powerbook Resolution by Drakino · · Score: 4, Informative

      Mac monitors haven't been 1 printed point = 1 display pixel for a long time. It was a big deal back when the first Mac came out with a 72 dpi screen that you could hold a ruler up to and have it match documents. However, things have greatly changed past 1984,

      Recently, most Apple screens hovered around 100 dpi except for the 14 inch iBook. dpi on monitors continues to increase, and operating systems are having a hard time keeping up. Windows XP and OS X Tiger don't scale overly well currently. Both have the underpinnings to do it, and show signs that Vista/Leopard will do a much better job.

      Printers are also widly varried, though a direct dpi compairson can't be made since a computer monitor can display many colors with one pixel, where as a printer is limited to usually 4 or so colors per pixel. More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dpi

    3. Re:Powerbook Resolution by Thu25245 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Mac monitors have always rendered one point = one pixel. Always. To this day, in Tiger, 1px=1pt.

      Let's get some terminology straight beforehand
      pixel = smallest uniquely controllable element on a screen
      point = unit for font measurement
      dot = smallest uniquely controllable visual element of anything (printer, screen, etc.)
      inch = unit for linear measurement; equal to 2.54cm

      The original Mac was designed so that 1pixel=1dot=1point=1/72 of an inch. Software, displays, and printers all agreed to this. Worked well in '84.

      Today, on, say, a 12" PowerBook, 1pixel=1point=1/106 of an inch on the screen.
        But in the software, 1pixel=1point=1/72". Still. To this day.

      The difference between 1/106 and 1/72 is exactly the problem that the resolution-independent UIs in Leopard/Vista are attempting to solve.

    4. Re:Powerbook Resolution by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 2, Informative

      A point isn't a "unit for font measurement" - it is a unit of length. It is exactly 1/72nd of an inch, always. If one pixel is 1/106th of an inch on a 12" powerbook, then 1px!=1pt on that system.

  6. Aperture prerequisites by Lord+Satri · · Score: 4, Interesting

    An interesting surprise is the prerequisites. Based on http://www.apple.com/aperture/specs.html , Aperture requires a state-of-the-art mac:

    Recommended System
            * Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5 or faster
            * 2GB of RAM
            * One of the following graphics cards:
                        o ATI Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition
                        o ATI Radeon 9800 XT or 9800 Pro
                        o NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL or 6800 GT DDL
                        o NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT
                        o NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500
            * 5GB of disk space for application, templates, and tutorial
            * DVD drive for installation

    Probably they'll eventually offer a "light" version of Aperture, like they did with Final Cut and Logic Audio, other "Pro" software.

    1. Re:Aperture prerequisites by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not quite - I was saying (incorrectly) that the new systems meet the recommended requirements, but he caught me on the videocard business. You're listing the minimum requirements. So, you're wrong. So there! Victory is mine! (until someone spots some other error I made *sigh*)

      Either way, I think we're all agreed that Aperture _really_ wants some hefty hardware to do it's thang, which shouldn't be surprising considering how much data it needs to move around to do what it does. Can't wait to try it out at an Apple store when it's released -- the Apple store says shipping in 6-8 weeks.

      I'd not want to run this thing on the minimum specs, but I bet one could squeak by pretty easily without the hefty videocard as long as you have the memory and something near the CPU power required (dual 1.8s would likely be more than fine, especially if you have 2GB RAM).

    2. Re:Aperture prerequisites by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Funny

      While your name follows logically, a better name would be Pinhole.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    3. Re:Aperture prerequisites by ted_rust · · Score: 2, Informative

      Read that page more carefully. You posted the "Recommended" not the "Required". Supports all G5s (with enough RAM) and the Aluminum PowerBooks >1.25GHz. Still hefty, but trying to say it requires the latest G5s is just misleading.

      --
      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to red, gold & green)
  7. Hmmm, by temojen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A product in the same price-class as Photoshop CS, but not the same feature-class... I wonder how that'll fair in the market...

    1. Re:Hmmm, by idobi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a totally different product. Photoshop doesn't have anywhere near the workflow that Aperature provides. Non destructive RAW processing, applying exposure processing to multiple files, and desktop organization is a godsend for professional photographers.

    2. Re:Hmmm, by Mikey-San · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Aperture isn't competing with Photoshop, it's competing with things like this:

      PhaseOne's Capture One

      --
      Mikey-San
      Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
    3. Re:Hmmm, by jedrek · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's a different piece of software. The most similar thing I can find is Capture One which is in exactly the same price category with a much shorter feature list. This is pro software for photo professionals. If its organizational tools (and that really is a possibility) save a pro 5 hours (at $100/h) of work or a single reshoot, it'll be worth it.

  8. The time to buy is now for PowerMac G5 by rizzo320 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These are some of the most expandible workstations Apple has ever released. 16GB of RAM and a TB of storage makes a killer multimedia editing workstation all around. If you are weary of the Intel switchover, the time to buy is now. The workstations should hold you over well into the second and third revisions of Apple Intel hardware at least.

  9. It should be noted that..... by 8127972 · · Score: 3, Informative

    .... With all of these updates, the 12" PowerBook Specs are exactly the same as before this announcement (that is it uses DDR333 RAM, has NVIDIA Go5200 64MB video, etc.) with the exception of the DVD-RW drive being standard.

    --
    This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
    1. Re:It should be noted that..... by tktk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, not exactly...the price got lowered. $1499 used to be the price of a 12" with only the combo drive. Now for $1499 you get the Superdrive. I think it's a $200 price drop.

  10. Next Week by jessebs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hope next week they finally add something to itunes to monitor changes to a directory. thats all I really need at this point

    1. Re:Next Week by RTMFD · · Score: 2, Informative

      Use a Folder Action Script to automagically add and delete stuff from iTunes if you want "watched folders". Go here for some documentation.

  11. Loving the Dual Core Hype by intmainvoid · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Apple must really be loving the hype over dual core cpus - looks like they're getting away with "upgrading" the two lower dual cpu Powermacs to a single dual core cpu. Isn't that going to be, uh, slower?

    Only the 2 x dual core top of the line model is an improvement over the mac it's replacing, the dual 2.7GHz.

    1. Re:Loving the Dual Core Hype by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      isn't that going to be, uh, slower?

      Depends, and less likely than you think. A lot more Mac software seems to be multi processor aware than Windows software. H.264 is dog-slow to encode but the Apple H.264 encoder used by the Quicktime encoder is MP-aware, with this, the speed will nearly double.

    2. Re:Loving the Dual Core Hype by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    3. Re:Loving the Dual Core Hype by be-fan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The new dual core will perform better, given the larger caches, on-chip cache-to-cache bus, and faster memory. If it was an Athlon 64, it could have performed worse, because you'd be going from dual independent memory controllers to a shared memory controller, but the G5's have a shared memory bus anyway, even when there are two seperate physical processors.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    4. Re:Loving the Dual Core Hype by Paradox · · Score: 4, Informative
      A lot more Mac software seems to be multi processor aware than Windows software. H.264 is dog-slow to encode but the Apple H.264 encoder used by the Quicktime encoder is MP-aware, with this, the speed will nearly double.
      Just a developer's aside to your comment. This kind of performance is typically very hard to get. Apple actually makes it surprisingly easy to tap into this kind of performance.

      It's not particularly hard as an Apple developer to take advantage of highly optimized and MP-aware code. Apple provides a very cool framework on every mac called "Accelerate.framework" (you can find it in /System/Library/Frameworks). This framework is very easy to use (from a C standpoint) compared to competitors and offers MP-aware, Altivec-Aware code. What's even wilder is that on the intel macs, apple can bind Accelerate.framework in the same way. Using this framework, you can make fast code and reduce migration woes.

      Far from being a weird apple invention, Apple basically optimized BLAS and LINPACK very tightly to the Mac OS X platform and then exposed via C-apis. They also built some higher level manipulations (as well as part of CoreImage and CoreAudio, from my understanding) on top of these basis, along with other heavily-optimized-and-profiled utilities.

      --
      Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
    5. Re:Loving the Dual Core Hype by pastafazou · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think a bit of clarification on your statement is necessary. The high-end G5 has two front side busses, one for each processor. This was always the case, even on the first dual 2GHz G5. The latest model features two front side busses, one per dual-core processor, at 1.25GHz each. This gives a maximum throughput to each dual-core processor of 10GBps, and 20GBps total between the CPUs and the system controller. The memory has a maximum throughput to the system controller of 8.5GBps, the video has 4GBps, and the PCI-x has 4GBps. The I/O subsystem (dual gigabit ethernet, dual SATA, USB, Firewire, Superdrive) has 1.6GBps. So all combined, 18.1GBps to the system controller, which can talk to the processors at 20GBps. While it would be nice to have dual memory busses, that would only leave 3GBps of bandwidth available for the rest of the system devices to share. In terms of the Athlon dual-core, I'm not positive on this, but I think it's integrated memory controller maxes throughput at 6.4GBps, and the I/O at 8GBps. Another point to note when comparing the architecture of the two processors is the design of Apple's front side bus. It has a 64-bit bus divided into two 32-bit busses, one travelling into the processor, one travelling out. Thus, 5GBps in, and 5GBps out. The Athlon has a 128-bit memory bus and a 16-bit system bus, both of which are unidirectional (either in or out, not simultaneous). The Apple bus architecture eliminates the latency associated with flipping the direction of the bus as well as the latency associated with the processor and system controller negotiating who will be using the bus next.

  12. Does the software keep the ... by Karma_fucker_sucker · · Score: 2
    old darkroom paradigm? I loved working in darkrooms and there were things that one could do with an enlarger for effects - lightening/darkening some areas of a photo, increasing contrast, masks & filters, tectures, etc... use your imagination.

    Or are they using their own terms for prcedures and effects? I ask this because I used to work in darkrooms with film and I'm wondering how would I transition to digital.

    On another note, I really miss using the chemicals, film, and paper. Digital still hasn't achieved the image quality of film - but it's getting there real quick! Sigh....

    --
    Evil people don't think they're evil. - George Lucas, Making of Ep III
  13. Not Bad, Not Spectacular by dave1212 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    New Power Macs can take up to 16 GB DDR2 RAM, have PCI Express, and can power up to four 30" displays or eight 23" or 20" ones.

    The thing that caught my eye was the addition of a second gigabit ethernet port. Dual gigabit ethernet ports means instant network rendering for Logic Node, XGrid, or any app that supports it. No expensive (given, these Macs are costly enough as is) gigabit router needed.

    Aperture looks interesting, although it requires a more powerful machine than mine, just like Motion. Working with RAW data from start to finish sounds wicked. Not sure about US$499 wicked, but cool nonetheless.

    For some reason, Apple offers an upgrade price on the product page, that links to the Motion 2 upgrade. Not really sure what's going on with that.

  14. Re:Apple and Adobe by CountBrass · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Some time ago Adobe announced they would no longer target the Mac first. I think you'll find this is Apple responding to a slap in the face from Adobe.

    --
    Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
  15. Operator Overloading by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
    > no PowerBook G5). They also introduced a new professional photography application known as Aperture, rounding out their software lineup for creative professionals.

    ...but when they do, they'll guarantee that the living hell is confused out of of camera buffs, Macheads, Photoshop users, and, well, just about every search engine on the planet.

    "Your problem is that you didn't correctly set the aperture on your G5, which accounts for the bad results in Aperture on your G5. That's because aperture data isn't recorded in the Aperture suite, so creative professionals should use Creative Suite, and don't even think of swapping your iPod Photo for a G5 and the Zen player made by these guys, and be thankful that Creative doesn't make a sound card for the G5 either.

    Who the hell hired Bjarne Stroustroup as a product marketing specialist, and why, dear, God, why, did he accept? :)

    1. Re:Operator Overloading by Tumbleweed · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, but remember, the vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

    2. Re:Operator Overloading by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

      I thought it was the flagon with the dragon had the brew that was true. The vessle with the pestle has the pellet with the poison.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    3. Re:Operator Overloading by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought the chalice from the palace had the pellet with the poison, and the flagon with the dragon originally had the brew that was true. But someone dropped the flagon with the dragon, so that had to be substituted.

  16. Re:Apple displays by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apple monitors use DVI. But be careful; the 30" is only compatible with a handful of video cards.

  17. Re:Apple displays by dogfriend · · Score: 2, Informative

    All of the new displays use DVI. They haven't used ADC connections for awhile now. http://www.apple.com/displays/digital.html

  18. Re:Price? by CrawlingEvil · · Score: 5, Informative

    Go to the Apple Store and look on the opening page. Near the bottom on the right hand side you'll see a red "Sale" tag. Click that and then scroll down about 2/5 the way down the page.

    In general, this is where Apple sells over stock and refurbished machines. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell the difference, but whether refurbished or old stock, they come with the same warrantees. No, they don't really advertise these in proud, bold print accross the front page of the store, as they want to sell new machines, but they're there for the buying, if you know where to look.

  19. Please Apple, save us from Finale by radicalskeptic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In the past couple years, Apple has been releasing really great pro-level apps for music, video, and now photography. This is good, but what *I* really want is a competitor for MakeMusic's Finale, which is a professional-grade program for music notation (like Microsoft Word, but for musical scores).

    Finale is actually really powerful (and expensive). It can do pretty much anything most people need for their notation. Unfortunately, it is the worst UI trainwreck I have ever encountered. It is lacking in a clear, simple, unified interface or an intuitive organization. Seemingly simple and basic options are buried deep in the mess. And the help files are almost worthless.

    For example, instead of clicking notes in, you can use your keyboard to enter notes.

    But I don't know what key does what.
    So I go into the key map options, but I still can't find the default key map. It just allows me to create a custom key map.
    I'm like 'okay the help files will learn me where the default or current key map is--or maybe even tell me WHAT it is!'
    Nope. No search results for "key map" in the really outdated help software that comes with it (it looks like it is a port from OS 9).

    This kind of stuff happens to me all the time. Apple, please release "Notes" or something! You could make a killing!

    --
    WARNING: If accidentally read, induce vomiting.
  20. 30" display price drop by happyemoticon · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is the first I heard of it, but when I was going to play around with the new pricing options, I noticed that the 30" display was $2499 instead of 3 grand. I'm pretty sure it was 3 grand a week ago.

    1. Re:30" display price drop by rworne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was $3000 just yesterday. Technically it was $2499 two weeks ago, because that's how far back Apple's price protection goes.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    2. Re: 30" display price drop by KURAAKU+Deibiddo · · Score: 2, Informative

      They did. From AppleInsider:

      Apple reduces Cinema Display pricing

      Oct 19 - 3:00 pm EST Along with the introduction of new PowerBooks and Power Macs on Wednesday, Apple reduced pricing on its Cinema Display line, lowering the cost of the 23-inch model by $200 and the 30-inch version by $500. The 23-inch model now costs $1300 and sports a native resolution of 1920 x 1200. The 30-inch display -- which requires an ATI Radeon 9650, Radeon X850 XT or NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT DDL Card -- now sells for $2500. The 30-inch model has a resolution of 2560 x 1600. No changes were made to the company's 20-inch display, which sells for $800 and offers a 1680 x 1050 optimal resolution. All three displays are VESA mount compatible and feature 2 USB ports and 2 FireWire 400 ports.

  21. photoshop is dead by same_old_story · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Photoshop was created a long time ago, when no professional photographers were using digital cameras. It's feature set / interface is actually very cumbersome for people shooting large number of pictures on a professional basis.

    With Aperture, Apple has spent a long time analyzing photographer's workflow, and design the app on top of it. It has just what is needed for pros, a clean workflow that includes:
    - easy import of raw images
    - easy way to see / search metadata
    - non destructive editing
    - project management
    - easy backup of negatives (raw files)
    - differentiation between masters (raw) and versions (treated images)
    - easy export and soft color spoofing
    - easy backup on masters and collections

    I can't wait o get my hands on this one...

    p.s.: Aperture is to iPhoto somewhat like Solaris is to windows 95...

    1. Re:photoshop is dead by sakusha · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uh.. no.

      Perhaps you mean Adobe Bridge is dead. That's more like it. Aperture is for importing and sorting files, and doing basic adjustments to RAW files. There are already pro products doing well in that niche, like Capture One Pro. But these are just front-ends to Photoshop, which will always be the tool of choice for serious photo editing.

      I can't wait for this Aperture, as the Canon File Viewer software is a real piece of crap, and so is their "Pro" version Canon Photo Pro. They are clumsy Windows ports that perform incredibly poorly and have the worst GUI I've ever seen. Most astonishingly, Canon Photo Pro doesn't support my Canon S50 camera! Aperture does.

  22. Taking a semester off on Personal Leave... by tapitout · · Score: 2, Funny

    A maxed-out PowerMac is now equivalent in cost to a semester of tuition at this particular private college.

  23. ...it's called Sibelius by lxt · · Score: 2, Informative

    Finale does have a competitor. It's called Sibelius. It's the standard in Europe - it's designed by *musicians*, not software engineers, and the UI is a godsend compared to Finale. Having just moved to states and been forced to use Finale, I have one piece of advice - get Sibelius. The simple reason Apple won't release a Finale competitor is that Sibelius always does a pretty good job.

    1. Re:...it's called Sibelius by lowid+(24)+_________ · · Score: 2, Informative

      While sibelius is a bit easier to use and learn, it really lacks the feature set of finale. If you're a college student turning in assignments or giving parts to musicians who aren't really that concerned about appearance, it's fine, but for a complicated, professional-looking score, or something publishing-ready, it's really much easier (and much more possible) to do in finale. This is, in a nutshell, the trade-off that you get with these two products.

      With that being said, I agree that finale is a mess sometimes. I really just wish they wouldn't push themselves for a yearly release. 2005b was in my experience the most stable finale release in some time, and another bug fix upgrade this year would have made it even better. Instead, they send out finale 2006 disks that erase your application support folder. Goodbye, address book! Plus heaps of bugs - it's faster overall, but until they come out with 2006a I'm back to using 2k5.

      P.

  24. Aperture is to Photoshop what FC is to AE by gsfprez · · Score: 5, Informative

    Aperture is NOT a photoshop killer - if anything, its going to make Photoshop get back to what its good at - editing photos - and let it NOT be a photo organizer.

    Aperture is built for the prosumer to professional photographer that laughs at 25,000 photos. I can easily shoot 3000 (and want to keep 500) in a single week at work, but there has never been a good way to DO that.

    Aperture helps guys like me because when i shoot, say, 20 shots of a single moment at an event (a la, a football tackle, a guy hoisting a flag, etc) i really don't NEED 20 shots - i just want to get as many as possible so i can look thru the 20, find the best, and then (for some unknown reason) never want to delete the 19 others. iPhoto is a joke for this, of course, because i often could have row after row of pictures that were all pretty identical. I was about to go layout some cache on something to replace my iPhotoBuddy multi-library self organization setup i'm using now.

    Instead of manually organizing thousands of photos in dozens of groups, Aperture does it all for me. It also helps out with batch processing that iPhoto+Photoshop couldn't do (because iPhoto does all its organizing in a bunch of weird subfolders) without making mass exports, then deleting the non-edited photos, etc.

    Photoshop is still The premiere photo editing tool, but for making my livelihood livable and organized, to be able to grade, select, and throw out pictures (without deleting), to help make simple and fast output for customers to view online or to build USEFUL contact sheets, Aperture will save me untold hours of my life. Photoshop has has some sad organization tools - and the built in browser is just this side of Finder or XP's thumbnail view...

    there's no multi-image review with simultaneous panning, no UI benefits from dual screens, no loop zooms on both open images and previews... none of that.

    this is serious software - this is probably even a larger, more important jump from iPhoto than Final Cut is from iMovie...

    --
    guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
    1. Re:Aperture is to Photoshop what FC is to AE by courtarro · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Aperture is NOT a photoshop killer

      While it may not replace Photoshop in terms of some specific features and purpose, the very things you've listed in your excellent analysis are the things that will make this a Photoshop "injurer". Right now, PS serves two crowds: digital artists and digital photographers. Adobe is going to find themselves losing market share if they don't pick up the pace on PS real quick, thanks to Aperture. Since Canon released Digital Photo Pro, I've been using PS less and less, though DPP falls short in many areas. Aperture sounds like the best combination of Picasa, DPP (or Phase One C1), and Photoshop's digital photography features.

      If the two programs continue as they are now, there will always be a place for both Aperture and PS, but PS won't be the king of all digital imagery, only digital art. It will lose the photography world to Apple.

  25. Re:aperture.... by Stanistani · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Has anyone else noticed that there is a software company called Aperture which makes a product called Aperture?

    Didn't they have enough hassles with Apple Records?

  26. This explains it by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, this explains how they manage to compress a full episode of Lost overnight to H.264.

    --
    If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
  27. no thanks, I'll wait... by BobWeiner · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The new Powerbooks offer no real advantage to their predecessors, besides a wider screen. I suspect many people will hold off their purchases on these laptops until Powerbooks ship with Intel processors (and a faster system bus). The PowerMac G5 dual core model has some great potential though. I'd get one if I could afford it. I also think Aperture has the makings of a solid pro app.

    --
    The PC Weenies: 11 Years of Online Tech 'Too
  28. Aperture... by jpellino · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...Looks great - the tour is stunning, and the metaphor is a breath of fresh air. A loupe - a light table - the ability to see thumbnails and versions on the table while you work. Heads up displays that give you back your window. They've obviously talked to a lot pf photographers, many of whom are likely sick of the tunnel vision interface of just about every app, PS included - that makes them stop acting like a photographer. I'm in the same boat. I've recently gone back to my professional 35mm SLR outfit that cost me a whopping $600 back in the day, and does what I want, and can make archival 11x14 prints that blow you away.

    Most affordable digital cameras a great for taking a picture of something that is rock solid and in no danger of moving and is under optimal lighting conditions. After two weddings as a guest just trying to shoot candids, I realize that there's very little art in using a current digital camera, that it mostly involves holding this small brick between you and something and trusting it to make a series of decisions you might not agree with all while making sure you just heard the right beep, saw the right LED and heard the right little ticky thingy. And I'm a geek.

    I've decided to retire my series of cameras (3, 4, 5 MP - they were all supposed to be so much better than the last one...) or donate them or something, and hunker down until something on the order of the EOS and this level of image handling gets reasonable. By hunker down I mean shoot with real film and a flash that goes more than 10 feet and something like decent response time. All of which I have in a 20 year old Pentax outfit. yes, I know it's ten times the volume and weight when outfitted with a TTL flash and zoom and winder. Yes, I know that if I pay thru the nose now for the EOS and a G5 and Aperture I'll save all that money on film - but film is a dribbling expense. And yes I know the COLA on a $600 camera from the 1980s is probably on the order of an EOS today, but I can still get a comparable new 35mm setup for the same $600 today.

    And honest to god - as with cell phones - it's not like I was wasting away and spent every hour before digital cameras wanting to take a picture and every five minutes wishing I could be making a phone call back in the era "BC" (before cellphones). (Ooooh! Then there's taking pictures with my phone! Or should I be calling people on my camera?! Wait, wait - if I could only email from my toaster...!)

    For many instances, digital cameras are quick, cheap, and OK. Honestly, 99% of them should be compared to compact point and click cameras for actual performance - but the hype of their early days has failed to solidify

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  29. Re:Apple displays by Keith+Mickunas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look at the Dells. Dell sells widescreen LCDs also, using the same Samsung panels as some of the Apples, and if you search for the deals you can get them for close to half the price of Apple. Plus they got a wide array of connectors on the back. I have a Dell 2005FPW and it's beautiful, it's a 20" 16x9 monitor with resolution of 1680x1050. Early ones supposedly had a backlight problem, but the one I bought a few months back is wonderful. And I got it for a bit over $400 delivered.

  30. Re:Needs this ("Teh Snappy" (tm)) by aliensporebomb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd say the difference between sluggish and snappy started when the
    2.5 duals came out. You could sense a different that the 2.0s were
    reasonably quick but the 2.5s' actually had snap.

    And with each new version of OS X, the interface speed increased.
    That is until Tiger where you can sense the window resizing/opening
    was faster than that of Panther but other things were slower and the
    beach ball returned for a lot of people.

    I talk to many people with 2.5 duals who say that Panther under 2.5
    dual was the fastest Mac OS X machine they experienced.

    And if you had a better video card (i.e. ATI X800 versus ATI Radeons
    below the 9600 XT) you would experience better performance. And a
    faster drive also added "snap".

    When 10.43 comes out, I'm hoping some of the speed has been restored.

    But yeah, it does seem that to equal the old single user Mac OS
    cooperative multitasking interface speed, you would need a nine
    gigahertz quad cpu, quad core cpu.

    Just a thought.

  31. Re:aperture.... by wootest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the looks of it, Aperture is far more thought-out than Elements is. (Which, I guess, could also mean that half of the features are useless for those of us who are not professional photographers - it's a very niche product, and it's almost by definition not a direct Photoshop competitor.)

    Automatic backup to a secondary drive, good metadata handling - which goes hand in hand with things like the "Smart Web Gallery" feature to automatically rebuild the pages where new photos come in that fit a special criteria, automatic stacking of batches of images (taken within x minutes of each other). However, I think that the biggest thing here is that Apple gets to use Core Image to do some fun stuff - you can make several versions of the same image by adding effects and doing things like cloning and patching, which all just adds up to an incremental 'recipe' of the changes and a lot of saved hard drive space (which I guess would add up if you were to make a lot of toy alternate RAW images).

    Obviously I haven't tried it, and I'm not a professional photographer, but from having watched the tours, there seems to be an awful lot of "extra miles" that Apple have taken in a lot of the features, which I think will be what sets it apart from Elements more than the stereotypical "artists buy Apple" factor.

  32. Re:RAW by mpapet · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's the easy RAW processing that is the unique selling proposition in Aperture. RAW processing has been in the past a binary-only kind of thing. Photoshop certainly doesn't have this kind of workflow. Yes, it has the features hidden in menus, but doesn't execute them like Aperture.

    Native (whatever that means) RAW handling is also why the system requirements are high(ish).

    Based on my experience, Apple should win far more creative users with this application. Many photographers working in digital use(d) Windows and Adobe certainly hasn't made anything like this.(yet)

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  33. Optical audio out! by tempfile · · Score: 3, Informative

    One thing that is easily overlooked is the addition of an digital audio out jack on the 15" powerbook. With the 17" being just too big, this makes the Powerbook much more attractive as a desktop replacement if great audio quality is important to you.

  34. What should it be named, but... by dduck · · Score: 3, Funny
  35. Where's my 4-way XServe? by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How long until the 4-way mobos get shrunk down to fit an XServe? Would it have to expand to a 2U server to accomodate 4 procs, or would it be do-able in the current 1U form-factor?

    --
    Who did what now?
  36. Re:Apple displays by SnapShot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm able to get my Windows boot to work with a GeForce 6600 AGP at full resolution for the 23" Apple Cinema Display (1940x1200) but as of yet I have been unable to tweak my SuSe 9.3 to display any higher than 1600x1200.

    YMMV and I'm no expert at configuring the necessary config files, but as of yet it doesn't appear that this particular combination (6600 + SuSe 9.3 + 23" Cinema Display) works to its full potential "out of the box".

    Still, for development work at home 1600x1200 is pretty nice and, under windows, it's beautiful IMHO.

    --
    Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
  37. Still overpriced by thecpuguru · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apple has yet to grab "the middle class" market. Thats the price range from $1000-1500.00, what most consumers in that area expect to pay for a new Laptop. I'm very disappointed that Apple is still charging $2000-2400 for G4 powerbooks that are now a generation behind their desktops and priced more than a comparable Wintel notebook. At this price point looks like we'll be buying some more Mac Mini's and lugging the monitors arround, fun stuff.

    1. Re:Still overpriced by RTMFD · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm "middle class" and the Apple Powerbook or the PowerMac is the equivalent of a week's pay for me. Which "middle class" are you talking about?

      Considering the longevity of apple hardware, it's more like putting down a down payment on a car or something equivalent. I had the "bic lighter" laptops from Dell and HP. They broke after a year of use.

  38. Re:Apple displays by mindstrm · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, only the 30" requires dual-link DVI. The 23" works fine on a regular DVI card.

  39. Re:Price? by wickedsteve · · Score: 3, Informative

    Fortunately, there IS a way to tell the difference! Apple Certified = Refurbished: "Apple Certified Refurbished Products Listed below are great deals on Apple Certified Refurbished products." Sale = Overstock: "Apple Products on Sale All Apple products on Sale are temporarily out of stock. Please check back frequently for new savings opportunities from Apple."

  40. mod the parent down! Re:photoshop is dead by dgerman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is totally non-sense. I shoot in the order of 20k photos a year, on average I use photoshop several hours a day (see http://silvernegative.com/ and I have looked at the Apple materials on Aperture.

    I can assure you that Photoshop is not equivalent to Aperture. I would instead, say that Adobe Bridge is (which is a part of Adobe Photoshop CS2).

    Many of the features present in Aperture are available in Photoshop's bridge (easy import of RAW, non-destructive editing, RAW processing). One of the great benefits of Aperture entering the market is healthy competion.

    I will not, with what I have seen, replace photoshop with Aperture. Will I be happy using Aperture? Probably yes. Will I pay for it? US$500 is a lot of money for those extra features, and I will probably not buy it. But then again, I don't think that pro-am photographers are the intended market. We are more worried about buying glass than buying software to do our hobby.

    Unless Aperture seriously competes with photoshop, it will end as a fringe application similar to Impress (who only Apple drones buy). There is already talk on the f-spot mailing list about Apereture features, so you might see them in a free software application soon.

    1. Re:mod the parent down! Re:photoshop is dead by same_old_story · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry but i think I didn't express my self very well. I didn't mean Aperture would have all of Photoshop's features. Photoshop is also used in layout composition and other industries. Photoshop stopped being a photographer's only app a long time ago. Also, even though you're right, photoshop will be the tool for very heavy picture editing, most of the time you need simple stuff like color correction, etc, and Aperture seems to deal with those very well.

      What I meant is this: today most pro photographers I know will shoot about 100+ shots a day for a job, and very often 200 to 300. He then must upload them to the computer, where he must do a lot of "organizing", like selecting best shots, making sequences and organizing proofs for his client. From what I've seen in Apple's Aperture, the software is superb in doing just that. Take the loupe tool for example, it looks very intuitive and fast to use, making things like checking focus and small details a breeze. Sure, when setting up your own exhibit with the 20 perfect prints, Photoshop it to hell, else, the at daily task of deliverying many shots to a client asap, Photoshop sucks...

      Keep in mind that for a pro photographer, US$500,00 for a tool that will save him hours in his work flow is a no brainer.
      Also, Aperture seems to be optimized to hell (that's why you have very restrictive system requirements), meaning it's performance should be very good, doinaling a lot on the gpu. That alone can make many people switch.

      It's like the iPod. All if it's features were somewhat available or are now in other mp3 players, it's the combination of many design / interface features that made it a killer gadget. Check slashdot's thread the day the iPod shipped, most people were saying "bah, x player is similar and cheaper" and look at what happened.

      As for having Aperture's feature in free software, I really hope it does come true, but I am not holding my breath. Just look at GIMP, which is supposed to be Photoshop like...

      p.s.: Adobe Bridge and Capture One Pro's interface suck compared to Aperture's....

  41. Re:Aperture... off topic. by johnny+cashed · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree. Nothing like a good rig from the '80s or '90s using film. I'm just glad now that I stuck with 35mm instead of moving up to medium format. I am not a professional, so I don't have to deal with sending pictures across the globe instantly like a photojournalist. The closest digital camera that would allow me to take full advantage of my 15mm superwide is the Canon with the full frame sensor (due to "lens factor"). It costs more than my lens. And it is a different lens mount. Most digital cameras are good as polaroid point and shoots. If I was a pro Nikon user, I'd be pissed because Nikon has yet to make a digital SLR that will use existing Nikon lenses at their focal length. Most people don't want to spend money on a 15mm or 20mm lens to get an 18 or 24 out of it. Nikon is using this as a way to sell smaller lenses (we'll just call them "DX" lenses). Used to be, Nikon would brag that its lens mount is still compatible with older lenses. They still technically are, but you loose a portion of the frame. I mean, if your going to a smaller sensor area, and you are going to make a new set of lenses for this area, you might as well make a smaller lens mount. Because now you cannot use your new "DX" lenses with your 35mm film camera and you cannot use them if they ever make a "full frame" digital camera, so why are you making a new lens line with an old lens mount when they are practically incompatible? I really don't care, because I don't use Nikon. I think that they are losing the pro market anyway. Which is a shame, because Nikon really did make some good equipment. But I'm not here to start a Nikon/Canon/Olympus/etc. penis length match. Digital cameras are useful, they are handy, but they are not yet all things to all photographers. Long live chemistry.

  42. This is not a slap in the face of adobe. by OS24Ever · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This has nothing to do with adobe and photoshop.

    This has everything to do with companies like Bibble Labs, Phase One, iView Multimedia who all make 'raw workflow' software.

    For those of you who are new, or don't care, or don't use RAW workflow it's about the post processing that most enthusiast, semi-pro, and pros doin once the pictures are taken and before they're edited in Photoshop (if needed).

    Photoshop has something included that has been showing up in the last few versions, they call it adobe camera raw but it is rasterized out of camera RAW and then you edit it like you would any other image.

    What Aperture, and the others let you do is 'pre-process' your image to do lossless corrections to things such as white balance, color cast, cropping, etc. If you make any of these types of changes inside photoshop once you import in the RAW file you are doing it with data loss.

    This is a step before photoshop, not a slap in the face and replacement.

    This is condiments to the burger. The burger is much more filling than just the condiments, but the condiments aren't all that by itself

    --

    As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.

  43. Re:Apple displays by Fareq · · Score: 4, Informative

    As others have said, that is a DVI connector.

    You ought to be able to get a PC videocard with a DVI connector without too much difficulty.

    If you go the 30" route, you'll need a special videocard... specifically one with "Dual-Link DVI" which basically means a newish nVidia Quadro, any ATi X1x00 series, or any newish FireGL. Check the specific model to be sure. This limitation applies to any monitor that gets above about 2048x1536 (I think that's the number)... it's a bandwidth issue.

    If you're going 20" or 23" might I recommend at least considering the Dell 2005FPW (20") and 2405FPW (24").

    As best I can tell, the panels are equivalent. They both have the same resolutions 20" = 1680x1050, 23 or 24" = 1920x1200. I can't tell if one has a better image than the other -- they look the same to me. Others will surely disagree.

    But the Dells are cheaper. They start at $699 and $1199 instead of $799 and $1299. But, you can usually (such as right now) get nice discounts on the Dell...

    DealMeIn.net has the 20" at $394 after a bunch of coupons right now. Until yesterday they had coupons to make the 24" $774, but that seems to have expired... it'll be back at some point.

    Of course, Apple's pretty silver frame and stand is cooler than Dell's black one. But then, the power button on the Dell monitor turns off the monitor, whereas the power button on the Apple monitor confusingly turns off the computer it's connected to without turning off the monitor. (That may or may not happen on a PC... but it sure does on our powermac!)

    Up to you, but these days I think the Dell is just as good for much less... anyway, hope I was helpful.

  44. Re:You can't get difference in Aperture v PS unles by Too+Much+Noise · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you do not shoot 500 pictures or more at a family gathering "because you can"

    If you shoot 500+ pictures at one event because you can you're a monkey with a finger reflex, not a photographer. A photographer would only shoot as many pictures as needed.

    If you do not have a camera body that costs over $1200

    I can up your troll just fine - if your hasselblad doesn't have a digital back you are not doing pro digital photography (after all, that's what you're droning about with 'then you can't understand the difference between Aperture and Photoshop' 'cause Aperture is 'for photographers') Do you still qualify? Craftmanship is not a matter of the tool and conversely throwing money at pro photo gear does not a photographer make (they used to say philosophum non facit barba)

    If you have absolutely no problem deleting pictures you've taken

    So you keep all those 500+ pictures per event? That says something about your discerning ability ... remind me never to ask you about your photos. Heck, if you shoot 500+ pics on a daily basis, you don't even see most of them. Or you meant 500+ once in a blue moon, when you play 'photographer'?

    If you never take your memory card out of your camera

    yep, 2x 20D (with USB2 connectors, so transfer time is not a big issue) loaded with 8GB cards (to fit about 900 RAW pics each) cannot possibly help you understand ... wait, nevermind. Perhaps you didn't think someone could actually be using more than one camera (the horror!!!)

    If you use AOL's webmail to send people pictures of your dog

    ah, indeed. I seem to have been wasting my time after all. You are absolutely right - pictures of your dog won't do at all. Now, pictures of your cat, on the other hand ...

    How you got +5 Insightful is perhaps a testimony of how much apple section mods know about photography - because it certainly has no relevance for the 'insight' of your post.

  45. Cooling? by Rainbird98 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Does anyone have specs on cooling? The previous Power Macintosh 2.7 required liquid cooling. Will the new dual core run cooler and require only fans?

  46. Re:Apple displays by cmdrbuzz · · Score: 2, Informative
    the power button on the Apple monitor confusingly turns off the computer it's connected to

    Open the Display preferences (Under System Preferences) and select the options, you can have it just turn off the monitor if you want.

  47. Re:Apple displays by coleridge78 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Dell does not do the same QA that Apple does with the displays, so though some may be from the same manufacturer the consistency is far different. Spend an hour digging around forums and consumer reports for repair records and the like, this becomes rather evident.

    Also: the perks on the Dell displays, particularly the USB ports and the like are notoriously faulty. At one ~500-machine Dell installation with which I'm intimately familiar, far less than half of the Dell flat-panel monitors (don't know model #s offhand, unfortunately) have USB ports and media readers which work as advertised. Far less. They're just trash.

    That said, I bought a Samsung display rather than an Apple. Lower cost, but far better quality than the Dells.

  48. Save some money and take a look at Photo Mechanic by snowwrestler · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is the PJ industry standard right now for organizing and culling high-volume takes.

    http://www.camerabits.com/pages/PM4.html

    And it's a lot less expensive than Aperture, especially if you take the ridiculous system requirements for Aperture into account.

    iPhoto is terrible for this sort of work compared to software like Photo Mechanic, Extensis Portfolio, iView Media Pro, etc.

    --
    Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  49. Re:Is DDR2 worth it? by Wiz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    DDR-2 does have lower power requirements, which is a win for laptops. More battery, and less heat. But I do agree it is likely, if anything, to degrade performance.

    What Apple should have done is put in the 7448 core from Freescale. It is pin compatabile with the current 7447a and has a faster FSB (200MHz) as well as more cache and better power management. Along with other general core improvements.

  50. Re:QuadG5 power user questions... by sakusha · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just to follow up my own question...

    Alias updated their qualified hardware list, the document is dated Oct 4 but only appeared online today (Oct 20) so they've obviously been testing these machines internally for a while now.

    Maya 7 now officially supports all the new Macs, and the nVidia 6600 and FX 4500. BUT there is no word on the 7800 yet. I called Alias tech support and they said that the quad processors are "supported but not optimized" whatever that means. I pressed them on the issue, they said they'd research it and get back to me. I suspect that this means that they still only support 2 processors and that Maya will run on a quad-G5 but with no speed advantage for the extra processors. But I can only guess at this, until I get better info.

    I think we're going to get a lot of this sort of waffling until the quad G5s get into developer hands, although it is not a good sign when a developer obviously HAS the machines and has tested them but hasn't publicly committed to 4 processor support. And this is the crux of the issue, are developers going to support these last-generation quad-G5s or are they going to skip over them and put their resources into preparing for the Intel macs? It would be a shame if they didn't support the quads, as the performance looks like it will beat anything on the market. I guess time will tell. And there's not much time left on the G5s, so this could be a problem.