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Ergonomic Mice Reviewed

Gregg writes "Most of the time these mice are marketed towards people suffering from RSI, however anyone feeling discomfort using a regular mouse should be able to switch to any of these pointing devices that were created with ergonomics, and only ergonomics in mind. TechSpot's comparison includes three products: the Perific Wireless Dual Mouse, 3M Ergonomic 'Renaissance' Mouse, and Evoluent's VerticalMouse 2." From the article: "People are sometimes under the impression that only those who work at a computer all day are at risk of repetitive stress injuries (RSI). Unfortunately that is not true and even people spending an hour or two per day using a computer are now suffering from RSI. Even if you aren't going to purchase ergonomic products for your everyday use, there are still some very helpful tips on how to lower the risk of someday suffering from RSI. Many specialists recommend taking short breaks after long periods of computer use to reduce risk. It is also a good idea to do a few quick and simple hand/wrist stretches that will help make sure you are doing your best to try and stay healthy."

171 comments

  1. Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by jackcarter · · Score: 4, Funny

    Mine's the old style: furry and with a little tail. I give it a little water, some pellets twice a day, and it just runs around on its little wheel and is happy.

    1. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by The+Shrewd+Dude · · Score: 3, Funny

      Beware the mice! They are higher beings from another dimension here to monitor the progress of their supercomputer!

    2. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by Bemmu · · Score: 1

      But can it be fondled for hours without nasty side-effects?

    3. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by governorx · · Score: 1

      The beauty with live mice is that they heal automatially. Plus they dont get any lint-balls caught in their mouse wheels or hair balls caught in their mouse balls.

      Nothing is more accurate than a mouse with a laser strapped onto its head!

    4. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by menkhaura · · Score: 1, Funny

      In this case, let me be the first to say:

      I, for one, welcome our new ergonomic mice overlords!

      --
      Stupidity is an equal opportunity striker.
      Fellow slashdotter Bill Dog
    5. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by Seumas · · Score: 1

      A coworker of mine got the ergonomics group at our corporation to buy him a $150 mouse. It looks like a frigging boat.

      I used to get RSI, but you know what I did? I stopped doing such repetative tasks non-stop. I suppose there are extreme cases, but I got to the point where I would have to wrap ice around my wrist and forearm and then a towel around that and then rest it on the desk and only gingerly move my hands to use the mouse. It was incredibly painful.

      It's been almsot a decade since I've had that kind of pain, because I get up and go do more things in between. It doesn't mean you have to use the mouse for an hour and then take a ten hour break - just mix things up a bit. Go for a drink of water. Hit the vending machine. Take a leak. Say "hi" to a coworker. Make a phone call. Whatever strikes you. Then get back to things.

    6. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      My mouse ids female, you sexist clod!!!!!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1, DNA Ref.

    8. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by Andrew+Tanenbaum · · Score: 2, Funny

      I used to get RSI.
      I was at a computer non-stop at work.
      Non-stop at home.
      The solution?
      I got a girlfriend and cut my computing time in half. My wrists couldn't feel better.

    9. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by Slow+Smurf · · Score: 2, Funny

      You sure it was the less computer time?

    10. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's most likely the lack of that OTHER wrist action that's saving you the pain.

    11. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Mine's the old style: furry and with a little tail. I give it a little water, some pellets twice a day, and it just runs around on its little wheel and is happy.
      Funniest thing I ever saw in a pet-shop: a bunch of 15-20 mice were running together in a hamster wheel... But one mouse had enough of it and stopped dead in her tracks, and gripped the wheel wires, where it promptly went around and around and around while the other mice kept running... Just hilarious!!!
    12. Re:Jeez, mice sure are high-tech these days by way2trivial · · Score: 1
      --
      every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  2. I cured my RSI by squoozer · · Score: 3, Funny

    I gave up work!

    Honestly it's the best thing I ever did. I recommend it to anyone that doesn't like working.

    --
    I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    1. Re:I cured my RSI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did too and it's fucking brilliant; the consumer lifestyle is vastly overrated. Give indolence a chance - you won't regret it.

    2. Re:I cured my RSI by tourvil · · Score: 2, Funny
      I gave up work!

      Honestly it's the best thing I ever did. I recommend it to anyone that doesn't like working.

      Hmm... Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    3. Re:I cured my RSI by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      I gave up work!

      Honestly it's the best thing I ever did. I recommend it to anyone that doesn't like working.


      You consider pimping a fishtank store with zero products available not working?

  3. Perific looks cool by Bemmu · · Score: 1

    The Perific mouse looked quite cool as it can be used both as a trackball AND a mouse, and also attached to your hand while you type. I feel that even an even better way to save space is one of those touchpads used on laptops.

    1. Re:Perific looks cool by jdhutchins · · Score: 1

      While the touchpads on laptops may save space, they can get very hard on your thumb/index finger quite quickly. With the perific mouse, you won't get problems nearly as quickly as you would with the touchpad.

    2. Re:Perific looks cool by Eideewt · · Score: 1

      I liked the way you can wear the Perific on your hand and keep it where its needed.

    3. Re:Perific looks cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think touch pads are the best of pointing devices. Have you tried to use one while you got sweaty hands? Also they wear out the tip of the index finger.

      ~AC

    4. Re:Perific looks cool by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1
      Lots of mice and trackballs look cool, but I find a lot of them quite hard work after a while, especially the cordless ones which usually have heavy batteries inside them.

      My current preference is for a Microsoft Notebook optical mouse (yes, I know MS is evil, but they do make some good hardware) which, since it is very small and very light, I find a lot less of a strain to use for long periods.

      Oh, and BTW, it's cheap too.

  4. USB Overdrive by Phroggy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Mac users may want to stay away from the Evoluent mouse because you'll need to spend $20 for a USB Overdrive to program all of the buttons.

    While this is certainly a good thing to be aware of, I disagree that it's a reason to avoid this mouse. First of all, USB Overdrive good software - I don't use it myself but it has a good reputation. Second, the software is not actually required to use the mouse - Mac OS X fully supports the second button for contextual menus and the wheel for scrolling, and the third button works in Safari, Firefox 1.5, and probably other apps.

    Finally, just about ANY mouse is going to require this software to make use of the fourth and fifth buttons, because mouse makers don't make their own Mac drivers. Some manufacturers may bundle it instead of making you buy it separately (I think Microsoft does this), so you should definitely consider that as part of the cost of the mouse, but that doesn't mean you should avoid this mouse, or any other, just for that reason.

    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    1. Re:USB Overdrive by Malor · · Score: 1

      I had no trouble at all plugging in two different multi-button Logitech mice to my Mac G4. It recognized most of the buttons without any software at all. The right and middle button, the scrollwheel, and the forward and back thumb keys all worked immediately. I believe only the middle thumb button on the MX1000 failed to register. With some Control Panel changes, it was easy to map Expose functions to whatever buttons I wanted.

      I haven't tried anything but Logitech mice, but the Mac seemed fully aware of all the capabilities (except the one button.)

      YMMV using other brands.

    2. Re:USB Overdrive by stonedonkey · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've had some hands-on time with the Evoluent mouse, and I can tell you that its Achilles Heel is the perpendicular hand motion required to click a button. The grip may be more natural to the hand (with less wrist activity and all), but they didn't do a lot to adjust button action. The middle-click button is awkwardly placed as well, and having three proper buttons takes time to adjust to.

      A horizontal middle click button actually calls for less tendon movement. You can feel it on the inside of your wrist -- at least, I can. And notice in the picture how one's pinky finger is flush against the ring finger. That means less fluid action for right-clicking, and the middle finger is more muscular for this job (as any cab driver knows). You can remap so that the center button (not the scroll button) acts as right-click, maintaining familiar movement, but you'll also notice from the picture that you're still left rubbing the right side of your hand against the desktop surface. If you have oily hands, or having been eating Doritos, this can create residue buildup that reduces smooth surface response. And the matte finish on half of the device makes the mouse itself prone to residue.

      In the long run, the Evoluent mouse shifts the axis of tendon movement to something the hand is more accustomed to (up and down waving motion, instead of rotating left to right) so it will probably come in handy to those with tired wrists. But the buttons still need some work in my opinion, and I would want an easily cleanable gloss finish instead of matte, even though matte has "grippier" contact.

    3. Re:USB Overdrive by mk500 · · Score: 1

      With OS X Tiger, all 5 of the Evoluent mouse buttons can be configured right from "System Preferences" >> "Dashboard & Exposé". The main OSX gadgets are available without any driver software, including: Exposé : All windows Exposé : Application windows Exposé : Desktop Dashboard Start Screensaver Stop Screensaver I love my Evoluent mice, and use them on my Mac and PC. If I have to use a different mouse for a while, I start to "feel the pain" within an hour or two. The Evoluent Vertical Mouse is a lifesaver for a developer like me that spends a lot of hours mousing around GUI's.

    4. Re:USB Overdrive by Orion_ · · Score: 2, Informative

      Finally, just about ANY mouse is going to require this software to make use of the fourth and fifth buttons, because mouse makers don't make their own Mac drivers.

      Well, it's true that some mouse makers don't make their own Mac drivers, but the big ones do: Microsoft, Logitech, Kensington.

      That said, you're right that these "drivers" are pretty much unnecessary. Any USB mouse will work fine on a Mac; the only real issue is that in Mac OS X, buttons 4 and higher can only be used for Exposé and Dashboard commands. These drivers (or something like USB Overdrive) let you assign other commands to those buttons.

    5. Re:USB Overdrive by mattOzan · · Score: 1
      You can remap so that the center button (not the scroll button) acts as right-click

      That's exactly what I did. It feels a lot more natural. I mapped the third (bottom-most) button to be a CTRL-click, which makes links in Firefox automatically open into a background tab (and does auto-scroll in lots of other apps).

      It did not take very long to get accustomed to the button action, IMO. It's really the same motion for everything, just rotated 90 degrees. So the brain catches on fairly quickly.

      My biggest problem was getting used to its vertical profile. I was knocking it on the floor several times a day at first, trying to move my hand back from the keyboard. It took a while to change the instinctive hover height of my hand so that I would actually clear it when going to grab it.

      I've used the VerticalMouse2 for over a year and I like it. I used to experience numbness in my ring and pinkie fingers using a regular mouse, and I think this has helped that. Actually, the optics in my VerticalMouse just went out this week, and I'm getting a warranty replacemnt from Evoluent. In the mean time I'm using a normal flat mouse, and the numbness is starting to return.

  5. Why use thse when you can use by Eugene+Webby · · Score: 2, Funny

    Might Mouse, here he comes to save the day!!

    1. Re:Why use thse when you can use by Stormwatch · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apple's mouses are ergonomic hell! Sure, they look stylish, but just don't feel as comfortable as the old "teardrop" ADB Mouse. Their newer keyboards (anything USB) suck too, since they no longer use mechanical keyswitches.

    2. Re:Why use thse when you can use by Clockwurk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm not sure why the parent comment is rated flamebait, but it shouldn't be. Apple's mice are most assuredly form before function (as anyone who use the imac puck mouse can attest).

      I tried the Mighty Mouse in the apple store and while it is a step in the right direction (multiple buttons, scrolling, etc.) its still very uncomfortable to use.

        To right click, you have to lift your left finger or it doesn't register. The side button was equally shitty; there is only one button (that is on both sides of the mouse), and it doesn't offer any feedback, you only know that you clicked it when it performs an action (all windows expose was the default. The scrollball seems like a good idea, just poorly executed. The ball is placed pretty far back on the mouse and you have to arch your fingers a lot to use it, and the ball is too small.

  6. What the by netkid91 · · Score: 1, Funny

    That mouse shown in the link looks weird, not only would that be uncomfortable IMHO, I couldn't stand looking at that thing. And 'taking breaks' after extended periods of use, wouldn't that lessen the time I could play EverQuest? No WAY I'd give up my gaming time just to prevent RSI, I'd rather jump off a cliff. GERRONIMO!!!!

    --
    NO~, I read Slashdot because I think it's stupid.....
  7. I think I keep... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...my TrackMan... I've used it for years and I don't have any problems.
    I just would like to have a left-hand version of it.

  8. Trackballs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was developing RSI as a help desk support guy years ago, and switched from a right-handed mouse to a left-handed trackball. Problem solved. One nice advantage of this setup is that your keyboard actually sits directly in front of you with the 10-key hanging off of the right side. And your shoulder doesn't have to support the full weight of your arm (since you can consistently rest your wrist).

    I'm on my fourth Kensington Expert Mouse -- they're expensive but I won't use anything else (at work, anyway).

    1. Re:Trackballs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you on the Kensington ExpertMouse. I'd been looking for a good replacement for my old CH Trackball for a long time. I did have to get my first one replaced though, as the scroll-ring wore out. (thankfully it was still under warranty!)

    2. Re:Trackballs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And your shoulder doesn't have to support the full weight of your arm (since you can consistently rest your wrist)

      Uh...you shoulder is designed to support the full weight of your arm...that's why it's attached...here's a clue...you don't have RSI, YOU ARE A FATTY!! GO ON A DIET!

    3. Re:Trackballs? by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Funny
      "you shoulder is designed to support the full weight of your arm"

      No. You may think it is, but in fact your knuckles are bearing some of the load by resting on the floor.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  9. As for ergonomic keyboards... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I destroyed my wrists using my laptop. It took about four years for it to be really problematic, but almost overnight I started getting burning sensations in my wrists. Laptops generally encourage you (by design) to press your wrists down on the flat smooth bit in front of the keyboard, and this is an absolute killer.

    I'm now using a Kinesis keyboard. It works pretty well, and I can type pretty much without pain. I have yet to find a good mouse (still using the old trackpoint nipple), but will probably invest in something like one of the ones in the article.

    Does anyone have experience with the Maltron keyboards? Or other expensive ergonomic keyboards? Although the Kinesis works pretty well, I find that the function keys are hard to hit accurately, and also that the thumb keys stretch my hand too much... I suppose I should get used to moving my hand instead of stretching my thumb to hit enter, but it's difficult to maintain under pressure.

    Thanks for any insight. Typing with my keyboard on my lap and my laptop raised up onto a pile of books as we speak. Or as you read and I write. Or whatever.

    P.S. To application developers: keyboard-only accessibility is really important to people with RSI like me...

  10. both hands? by jzeejunk · · Score: 1

    The mouse supports a conventional grip and a grip with both hands. I already hate lifting a hand off of the keyboard, now I've to life both hands to use the mouse. That's bound to be annoying. Instead I'll continue doing what I do currently - I keep changing the hand I use for mouse after every few days. Works fine for me. No RSIs after doing this for 4 yrs now with about 8-10 hrs of daily computer use.

    --
    sarchasm
    1. Re:both hands? by ThisNukes4u · · Score: 1

      Consider buying one of these On-the-Stick keyboards. They are pricy($100 for a keyboard!) but they are fantastic. I bought one last year and it is so great I could never go back to a regular keyboard/mouse combo. Also one of the reasons I will only use IBM laptops.

      --
      thisnukes4u.net
    2. Re:both hands? by netkid91 · · Score: 0

      Be a pain in the ass to play a FPS using one of those, I could barley use a word proccessor with one of those.

      --
      NO~, I read Slashdot because I think it's stupid.....
    3. Re:both hands? by chenwah · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I liked the keyboard + trackpoint + trackpad on my IBM T41 so much I went out and bought one of these for my regular desktop PC.

      It is just like the T41 keyboard only a little bigger, with a numeric keypad added on. I tend to use the trackpoint most since it lets me keep my fingers near the home keys but it has a trackpad too. There is also a wee model without the numpad.

      - flip

    4. Re:both hands? by shawb · · Score: 1

      The mouse also supports a mode where the mouse basically sits on your left hand, and you can use the trackball with your right thumb without lifting your fingers from the keyboard. Although this doesn't seem like it would work that well with a split keyboard, as anyone who buys an ergonomic mouse would most probably be using. I think the ergonomic benefit of this mouse is primarilly that it can be used in so many different ways that you just switch up when one way is bothering you. Although this means you'll have to learn a couple new ways to use it, I usually get pretty used to a new pointing device in a couple hours. Except trackpads... I can never seem to get used to them.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  11. All you hardware designers, listen up by Miss_Thistlebottom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Trackballs, as someone's mentioned, are the way to go. You might have to try a couple before you find the one that works for you (Kensington Orbit, Logitech Trackman, etc.), but it's worth the try. Several injured people in my office have switched and are happier.

    What I am annoyed about (it's always something, innit?) is that there are NO Bluetooth trackballs! Hello Logitech! It might be a small segment of your market, but I think there are enough of us who are very, very interested. Especially to go with our shiny new iMacs and their wireless BT keyboards. My trackball cord is abotu the only one in sight on my desktop, but a BT version is the only thing I'd trade it for. Neither Kensington nor Logitech seem to be interested.

    (There is one weird-looking, unappealing BT trackball image circulating, but I have yet to hear of anyone actually finding it for purchase, and what I really want is one of the two more common trackballs.)

    1. Re:All you hardware designers, listen up by Yehooti · · Score: 1

      Mouses (I think 'mice' are the furry little critters), with features never seem to work with my KVM switch. Is that just me or do others suffer from this 'feature'?

    2. Re:All you hardware designers, listen up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kensington makes a wireless version of their newest optical trackball.

      It's not bluetooth, but it is wireless.

    3. Re:All you hardware designers, listen up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not bluetooth, but Logitech has two wireless trackball mice: [1] [2]

    4. Re:All you hardware designers, listen up by evilneko · · Score: 1

      I don't know how fancy the "feautures" you're referring to are, but I haven't had any trouble.

      Then again maybe memory is failing me. I do have a lot of spare mice and actually have an extra mouse for my computers sharing KVM switches. :D

      --
      Slashdot - where to disagree, is to be a troll
    5. Re:All you hardware designers, listen up by corpsiclex · · Score: 1

      I'd like to second this. I wasted quite a bit of my time searching for a bluetooth trackball for my media center computer. A mouse, even a wireless one, just doesn't work quite right on a coffee table.

      --

      eBayDig 1s a typo saerch engien
    6. Re:All you hardware designers, listen up by Svenne · · Score: 1

      Yes, but unfortunately, they're both crap.

      --

      Slagborr
    7. Re:All you hardware designers, listen up by bjb · · Score: 1
      What I am annoyed about (it's always something, innit?) is that there are NO Bluetooth trackballs! Hello Logitech!

      Though it doesn't appear to be Bluetooth specifically, Kensington does offer a wireless version of their Expert Mouse.

      Kensington has always produced trackballs that are the size of a billiards ball. I've tried the ones where the balls are the size of a large gumball (about 1" across) and I've never thought they moved easily. The large Kensington balls have always worked very well for me, and combined with a wrist rest and ergonomic keyboard, I've pretty much eliminated most of my "computer related pains".

      If you haven't worked with trackballs yet, consider this: when you use a mouse, where is your movement? Most likely, you're resting on your wrist (probably the ball opposite your thumb) and stretching/retracting/twisting off of that pivot point- not a natural movement. With a trackball, the movement is in your fingers. Specifically with the ones like Kensington makes, its your index/middle/ring fingers doing the movement. This kind of movement is at least a little more natural.

      I don't work for Kensington or any computer product company; I just like to share my findings with people because people who use computers all day for work don't need to destroy their eyesight or hand/wrist joints.

      --
      Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
  12. I'll switch when by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 3, Funny
    You pry my Logitech Trackman Marble FX trackball from my numb tingly fingers!

    Seriously, I'm a Model M keyboard nut, and I'm just as comitted to my trackball. These things are like gold on eBay (no relation to seller). If you haven't used one of these (set the upper white thumb button to dounle-click), you haven't lived. This is the best pointer device I've ever used.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:I'll switch when by incubusnb · · Score: 1

      that thing is too odd for me, i prefer the previous generation Trackman Marble. much more ergonomic, i have never had any wrist problems with it, and i can sit at my computer for several hours playing Civilisation without ever having any discomfort in my right hand.
      i'll be dead and 6' below ground before you'll pry this mouse from my hands, hell, you just might have to bury me with it
      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004L8IG/002-04 25879-7990434?v=glance&n=172282&v=glance

      --
      /. is overrun by bed-wetting elitist nerds
      let it be known, for anything other than servers, a *nix OS sucks
    2. Re:I'll switch when by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      I disagree. One of the guys in my office uses one of thise on his laptop, and I find that my thumb is too spastic on its own to use that thing properly. I can use two or three (index through ring) fingers on the Marble FX to move the pointer, and that gives me the stability my poor twitchy nerve-damaged fingers need.
      If you want to sell your Marble FX, contact me.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:I'll switch when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a trackball nut, but those Marble FX suck so bad I'd rather use a mouse (or a touchpad/trackpad/eraser tip or anything else for that matter).

      The variety where you use your thumb rocks, but the others... Plain suck. Your fingers just don't have enoguh speed or precision to use a ball. It would probably work better with your toes (can't be worse anyway).

      So haven't lived or best trackball ever? No way, simply the WORST trackball, ever! Worse than a cheap mouse.

    4. Re:I'll switch when by sasquatch+zeke · · Score: 1

      Yes!

      Someone else with the same ergonomic setup as me. Model M + Trackman Marble FX is what I've been using since 1999.
      I lucked out this last year and ended up with 4-5 more of the Trackmans for free, which is great since I can see
      obvious signs of deterioration in the smaller bits of internal plastic on my original one. I've also got at least 2-3 more of the Model M's as backups, courtesy of a local thrift store.

      I'm amazed (considering how cheap decent options now are) that so few people pay any attention to ergonomics. Ease of physical interface makes such a difference when you use a computer for 8+ hours a day.

      Now if I could just get my display situation under control...

      sz

    5. Re:I'll switch when by waffleman · · Score: 1

      Best mouse/trackball I ever had and I would use it again in a heartbeat if I could just get scroll wheel functionality working. Do you know where I could get drivers for XP?

  13. Mouse Trapper by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My personal favourite, the MouseTrapper. Completely mechanic, can use whatever old mouse you have lying around, and the motion you use are completely different from a regular mouse. It also doesn't break. I personally cannot use any mouse, not even those 'ergonomic' ones, as I will feel it in my wrists in a couple of days. I usually use a laptop with touchpad, but when I sit behind a desktop machine, this thingy really helps.

    1. Re:Mouse Trapper by xenotrout · · Score: 1

      I don't understand that product. It seems to act as a trackpad or trackball, both of which can be bought as periferals for desktop computers more cheaply than the mouse trapper. I'm just confused about how it's better than either, or why it would be mechanical rather than electronic--aren't mouse control boards cheap? The website doesn't provide much information about how it actually works. It looks interesting though and reminds me of a roll bar that mounts in the same place (left and right movements are produced by pushing the bar against the sides of its axle, I believe).

    2. Re:Mouse Trapper by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 1

      Although this device may help, it's hard to take it seriously given that the site promotes an ergonomic "pointing" solution while showing pictures of exactly the sort of keyboard that is responsible for causing RSI in thousands of people.

      For the most natural shoulder-arm-wrist alignment, the keyboard should have split keys.

      --
      Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
    3. Re:Mouse Trapper by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 1
      It is a roll bar. What you get is a small round bar in front of you which you can roll forward/backward and sideways. The bar is simply connected to the ball of the mouse on the side of the contraption, thus transferring any movement on the bar to the mouse. It's very nifty.
      The buttons in the middle of the contraption are also transferred to the mouse on the side. What I like about it is that you can steer the thing with a flat hand in front of your keyboard. This saves a lot of movement of the wrist which in my particular case leads to most trouble.

      The disadvantage is that it is less accurate and fast than a real mouse, yet that's a small price to pay for actually being able to use a pointing device.

    4. Re:Mouse Trapper by jht001 · · Score: 1

      I use: rollermouse

      Its lets you use the scroll wheel with your thumbs, and eliminates the need to move your hands off the keyboard to use the mouse. I've had no problems using it for fine detail work that requires high accuracy mouse momements.

  14. Wacom board by wilper · · Score: 2, Informative

    My hands were so bad that I considered getting out of the computer area alltogether. As a last resort I bought a Wacom Graphire 3 board, and all my problems disappeared. The pen is very light and the angle of the forearm is just the same as when writing with a regular pen.

    It takes a while getting used to, but was worth it, my hands are so good these days that I even spend time playing games and stuff again, very nice.

    Linux support is good enough.

    1. Re:Wacom board by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BIG agreement. Although I wish the linux support(and Gimp support, for that matter) were a little better, it's fine for point-and-click and a little bit of color work.

      I have a trackball and a mouse, and I've learned a "grip of death" for both of those that inevitably causes strain. But not so with the tablet. I can hold the Wacom pen very sloppily and comfortably.

      Only issue is that you can't use it with a keyboard at the same time so easily, it begs to be held in your lap....perhaps Wacom should come up with a keyboard-tablet combo. That would be interesting.

    2. Re:Wacom board by Doppler00 · · Score: 1

      I totally agree. The "ergonomic" evaluator where I worked first suggested I tried a track ball. The track ball actually made things worse as it took far more stress on my wrist to move the trackball around than it does to move a mouse. I finally received a Wacom tablet at the suggestion of another co-worker. I've never felt pain in my wrist since then.

  15. "ergonomic" devices are not ergonomic at all by lokedhs · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Seriously... What's the deal with all of these "ergonomic" pointing devices?

    Most of them are big as houses are requires you to move your entire hand to move the damn thing around the desk. If anything, this increases the risk of getting "mouse arm".

    The way to use a mouse, is to rest your wrist on the desk, and move the mouse with your fingertips. None of these ergonomic ones allow you to do that. Instead, they force you to move your entire arm, increasing stress on the shoulder.

    Someone should tell the mouse manufacturers that the problem isn't that the hand isn't resting "comfortably" around the mouse, but rather that the user moves and strains his shoulder.

    1. Re:"ergonomic" devices are not ergonomic at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've made the mistake of assuming that what's good for you is good for everyone.

      I suffer from tendinits in my wrist. If I use a mouse the way you describe, I'll be in pain within minutes. If I keep it up all day, I won't be working for at least a week. On the other hand, I have a co-worker who has elbow and shoulder problems. He uses and loves a Logictech Marble Mouse, which is used by moving the fingertips as you describe.

      I don't have anything to back this up, but I get the impression that wrist pain is much more common than shoulder pain. In most cases, shoulder pain related to mouse/keyboard use can be helped by getting a chair which can be adjusted to support the elbows.

    2. Re:"ergonomic" devices are not ergonomic at all by shawb · · Score: 4, Informative

      Have you ever heard of carpal tunnel syndrome? What you are describing is the worst possible thing to do to your wrists. The large muscles and ligaments in your shoulder and elbow can take some repetitive use. The delicate tendons in your wrist will swell from mousing all day using the method you described, pinching off the carpal tunnel nerve. Extremely painfull and debilitating. That's why ergonomic mice require macro-movements with the whole arm rather than the delicate micro movements used in fingertip mousing.

      There are other conditions the position you mentioned can cause or aggravate, such as bursitis and tendonitis.

      The best defense is to take a break every now and then and stretch out the wrist. General body stretching can also help back pain which can result from sitting in a chair all day.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    3. Re:"ergonomic" devices are not ergonomic at all by pilkul · · Score: 1
      There's no perfect mousing position; moving your mouse naturally implies putting stress on some muscles. But the position you're suggesting is particularly bad since your hand becomes bent upwards (as well as rotated to face downwards, which is a problem with any position using a horizontal mouse). That puts a lot of stress on the small muscles on the back of your forearm, and the stress continues even if you're not even moving the mouse but just resting your hand on it. Vertical mice shift the pressure to your stronger upper arm (not the shoulder), which are less liable to become strained, and the stress stops almost completely if you're not moving the mouse. I have a 3M ergonomic mouse and I'm quite happy with it.

      All this said, getting a better mouse is only a small part of RSI prevention/treatment, since the biggest problems typically arise in the upper back.

    4. Re:"ergonomic" devices are not ergonomic at all by ChestyLaRueGal · · Score: 1

      Nothing is ergonomic for me. When I was young I broke and screwed up my right arm (my radius and ulna ended up fused at one end, thus no twisting motion). Ergonomic is actually worse for me because it causes me to bend out my arm at a weird angle and mousing left handed just feels weird since I am right handed. Thus I am doomed.

    5. Re:"ergonomic" devices are not ergonomic at all by cdrdude · · Score: 0

      I'll play you a game of Counterstrike...

      --
      This sig is neither interesting, nor humorous. Including meta-humor.
    6. Re:"ergonomic" devices are not ergonomic at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have trouble believing that people kill their wrists with a mouse. I've been using mice and keyboards for most of my life (close to 20 years), and I've never had a problem with a mouse. Why would I? It's like resting your hand on the table: a fairly natural position, with only minor movements.

      Now, keyboards are a different story. I've had all kinds of trouble with keyboards, especially QWERTY ones that make you do all sorts of crazy contortions to type common words.

      Maybe it's because I'm a programmer (Laws of Optimization!), but wouldn't it make sense to start by fixing the device that makes your fingers do all sorts of crazy little positions first, and *then* move on to the one that's like sliding a coaster down the bar?

  16. How about the weight..? by jxyama · · Score: 1
    I don't suffer (yet) from RSI, but one thing that does matter to me about the mouse is the weight. I've noticed that wireless mice with batteries put a great deal of strain on my wrist mainly because of the weight of the batteries. I am not sure how many ergonomics designers out there place weight among the considerations...

    Consequently, I've settled on using wired lightweight mouse or laptop-style small wireless mouse.

  17. Glucosamine & Chondroitin by rufusdufus · · Score: 3, Informative

    I started taking glucosamine and chondroitin to see if it would help a problem in my neck, and was amazed to find that my fingers felt like they had been hit with dollop of WD-40. Pain that I had sublminated was suddenly gone, and I can now do things that used to cause me agony, like hold a bowling ball or open a jar.
    I recommend anyone who uses a computer all day long even if they don't notice any pain try this stuff for a week and see whether it makes a difference.

    1. Re:Glucosamine & Chondroitin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Don't forget the obligatory "I Am Not A Doctor" and "Don't take medical advice you hear on the internet before talking it over with your doctor" disclaimers.

      You know, just because this worked well for you doesn't mean it will work well for anyone, much less everyone else.

      Recommending that others take any medicine (or even "food supplement") without knowing about that person's particular medical history and being a doctor yourself is usually a bad idea.

      Without it you don't know what reaction any given person is going to have to this medication or what interactions these people are going to have with any medications they may already be taking.

      Not to mention you're recommending this to potentially thousands of people by posting it on slashdot. The more uninformed people try this the more chances there are of an adverse reaction.

      So think twice before giving such unqualified advice. And always talk to your doctor before deciding to use any medication/"food supplement" you heard about on the net.

    2. Re:Glucosamine & Chondroitin by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      And this is different from the display racks in the store how?

      Or the advertisemens in magazines (who actually reads the fine print on the next page) or on TV ("more information is available in some magazine you can possibly find at the library")?

    3. Re:Glucosamine & Chondroitin by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2, Informative
      Don't forget the obligatory "I Am Not A Doctor"

      Maybe, but my vet recommended glucosamine + chondroitin for my dog, who has a mild case of arthritis, and it seems to be effective.

    4. Re:Glucosamine & Chondroitin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I started taking tomato sauce to see if it would help a problem with my brain, and it felt like my neurons were supercharged. Now I'm really smart, and it's all thanks to the tomato sauce. If you want to be more smart, eat tomato sauce for a week, and see if it makes a difference.

  18. Right-handed bias by piyamaradus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As with almost all higher-end mice, these seem aimed at primarily or entirely right-handed use. Left-handed mouse users are almost completely stuck with 2 or 3 button mice that are longitudinally symmetrical and thus work with either hand. I'd love one of the high end logitech laser mice but it's impossible to use in any reasonable fashion with the left hand. Yet I find most left-handed people have given up and just use the mouse with the right hand, which makes very little sense -- mousing with the left hand on a standar keyoard reduces by 3x-4x the distance required to move the arm to change from keyboard to mouse and allows the right hand to use the keypad or other control-type key clusters easily. I chose to use the left hand with the mouse on my first mouse-enabled machine ~18 years ago (I'm not strongly handed either way, but use left for some tasks and right for others) and am amazed that the mouse manufacturers treat 10% of the population this way. Logitech doesn't even answer my emails.

    1. Re:Right-handed bias by Stephen+Williams · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I find most left-handed people have given up and just use the mouse with the right hand

      I see it as being similar to using scissors right-handed; they just work better that way. I don't think anything of using scissors right-handed, s'just something I had to learn how to do. It is the same with mice.

      -Stephen

    2. Re:Right-handed bias by mk500 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Evoluent makes a left-handed version. It's a bit more expensive because they don't sell as many, but is otherwise identical.

      I've been using my Evoluent Vertical Mice for over a year now, and they are really great.

    3. Re:Right-handed bias by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess that's just the price you pay for being a freak...

    4. Re:Right-handed bias by prockcore · · Score: 2, Insightful

      am amazed that the mouse manufacturers treat 10% of the population this way.

      Probably because it's *not* 10% of the population. I'm left handed, my brother is left handed, there are a lot of people at my work who are left handed.. we all use a right handed mouse with our right hands.

      It's more like 1% of the computer using population uses a left handed mouse.

    5. Re:Right-handed bias by jln · · Score: 1
      I agree strongly. I have been using a computer for the last 20 years [or there about] and from the very first moment pointers and pointer devices became available to me I have been using my left hand because of the key-clusters mentioned even tho I'm righthanded.


      Two other bits of advice to avoid RSI. Use a trackball instead of a mouse; I never saw the sense in moving the pointer device to move the pointer, it's much easier to use with the left hand when you're right handed and the hand rests on the device all the time, reducing the risk of RSI. And two: don't do everything with the mouse; learn the keyboard shortcuts of your applications/window manager.

    6. Re:Right-handed bias by ozbird · · Score: 1

      and allows the right hand to use the keypad or other control-type key clusters easily.

      Like what - the arrow keys? Why not get a left-handed keyboard?

      I am left-handed, and see no point whatsoever in using a "left-handed mouse". I can type faster with just my left hand than my right, and I get no speed or accuracy advantage from using my left hand for the mouse (quite the opposite.)

      There are some serious ergonomic issues for lefties e.g. scissors - mice are not one of them.

    7. Re:Right-handed bias by mattOzan · · Score: 1

      The Evoluent VerticalMouse2 comes in left-hand and right-hand models.

    8. Re:Right-handed bias by ne0n · · Score: 1

      this mouse is pretty darned nice if u are ambidextrous

      I would have bought the Logitech MX1000 if it weren't so badly indented on the left side, but the Creative serves well enough :)

      --
      $ :(){ :|:& };:
    9. Re:Right-handed bias by asjk · · Score: 1
      I chose to use the left hand with the mouse on my first mouse-enabled machine ~18 years ago (I'm not strongly handed either way, but use left for some tasks and right for others) and am amazed that the mouse manufacturers treat 10% of the population this way.

      Yeah, I'm mostly right handed but I decided--with my first mouse experience--to learn to use both hands. This greatly helps when the fingertips or joints get sore. At work I use mostly my left hand and at home my right.

    10. Re:Right-handed bias by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      THAT is the least comfortable mouse i could imagine using. Although I am a right hander, I still stick to the ol' symetric logitec 2-button + wheel optical mouse. No crazy curves to make me think it's scientifically designed and no stupid side buttons to force my hand into unnatural positions when doing the thing the mouse is primarily intended to do: move a cursor on a screen.

      You're amazed that mouse manufacturers fail to bring "interesting new" mice to 10% of the population. I'm even more amazed that they keep foisting these ungainly designs on the other 90% of us.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  19. Trackball Alternative? by Comatose51 · · Score: 2, Informative

    People at my company who have RSI usually just request a track ball mouse. They seen to help quite a bit, are fairly common, and relatively cheap. That's basically what the first one, the Perific mouse, is but with a small ball. I don't see how that's actually better than a trackball which has a much larger ball. Repetitive small movements are hard on the wrist (I know from hammering in nails in weird parts of houses for Habitat for Humanity).

    --
    EvilCON - Made Famous by /.
    1. Re:Trackball Alternative? by belg4mit · · Score: 1

      I suspect the idea is to minimize the amount of force you have to exert
      e.g; spin a Space Invaders ball vs. a marble.

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
    2. Re:Trackball Alternative? by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Here's one alternative: what do people think about the TrackPoint on Thinkpads (and many Dell laptops)? You don't have to move your hands around or remove them from the keyboard, and you click with your thumb... to me it's dandy and I work on this laptop a lot. That said I have a trackball on my work PC, a mouse on my home PC, and another laptop with a touchpad, and really they all seem fine to me.

    3. Re:Trackball Alternative? by evilviper · · Score: 1
      Repetitive small movements are hard on the wrist (I know from hammering in nails in weird parts of houses for Habitat for Humanity).

      You don't get more stress from smaller vs. larger movements. Either one can cause RSI just as easily as the other. It's all about how awkwardly positioned your fingers/wrists/arms are when exerting force (even numerous very small forces).

      As for your own experience (hopefully this won't sound trollish) the solution is to work-out. The better developed the muscles are, the less vulnerable you will be to RSI (or just about any other injury in-fact). I believe that is the root cause behind women being much more susceptible to RSI than men.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    4. Re:Trackball Alternative? by Gnascher · · Score: 1

      I used to love the "TrackPoint" style pointing device. My first laptop was a ThinkPad, and I fell in love with that pointer. I then got a Toshiba because it was cheaper and also had a "TrackPoint" style pointer. The only problem I have with them is that the precision is a bit lacking, and if you do a lot of mousing, your mousing finger tends to get sore after a while.

      --
      It's not my fault! It was this way when I got here.
  20. Re:I switch hands twice a week, but not bcause of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude, that's not the stranger. The stranger is when you sit on your hand untill it falls asleep, then you jack with the numb hand. Topical anaesthetics are also interesting to use every now and then, but not advised for when you just want to rub one out.

  21. Make your own by mathgenius · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For less than $20 I modded a cheap mouse so that I can have one of these "vertical" mice at home. It's a lot cheaper than the 3M model. Also you can adjust it to fit your hand exactly.

    Simon.

    1. Re:Make your own by IainMH · · Score: 1

      Duct tape: $5

      Where did the other $15 go?

  22. Another solution by bunyip · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If the glucosamine and chondroitin don't work for you, there are therapies that will. Active Release Technique (ART) is great for RSI and other repetitive injuries (I'm a runner and triathlete, I've used ART to treat various problems).

    The company where I work has an ART practitioner come on site 2 mornings a week to treat RSI and other problems. Several of my friends and colleagues have been rteated on site. It's a pretty cool benefit.

    BTW - I don't do ART for a living, I'm a programmer, so don't consider this an advertisement.

    Alan.

  23. Goldtouch mouse by DrElJeffe · · Score: 2, Informative

    I experienced serious pain from using the scroll wheel.
    Why, Microsoft, why? Why did you place such a tempting button halfway down the longest finger, why? The tendons that control the bending motion for that finger extend through over six inches of flesh from the finger tips to the muscles in the upper arm. These tendons saw back and forth across several nerves, blood vessels, and tiny bones when when you use the scroll wheel.
    I now swear by the Goldtouch optical mouse. Like the Evoluent VerticalMouse, it sits at a slant to place your hand in a more natural position. However, the scroll wheel has been moved from its middle-finger position to a bi-directional button at the side. The scroll button is operated by the thumb, which evolved large muscles at its base to perform this exact bending motion.
    I have one of these mice for home and one for work: http://www.keyovation.com/ergonomics/product/ergon omicmouse.html

    1. Re:Goldtouch mouse by springbox · · Score: 1

      I've always used my pointing finger, and not my middle finger, to operate the left button and the wheel. Actually, moving my middle finger like that is a bit annoying anyway.

    2. Re:Goldtouch mouse by l3v1 · · Score: 1

      place such a tempting button halfway down the longest finger ... the scroll wheel has been moved from its middle-finger position to a bi-directional button at the side

      Two things. You probably never used that scroll wheel as intended. Also, you probably never saw a good logitech mouse.

      --
      I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  24. Use as the gamecube controller by Mishra100 · · Score: 1

    You see, that is what the gamecube controller should be modeled after. That looks comfortable enough to point at your TV and click whatever button is needed. A lot better than that darn remote.

  25. Unnatural movements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't know why people still use mice, human index fingers are simply not made to make a clicking motion so many times in a day.

    After working as a video editor using a mouse for a couple of months the pain in my index finger became so bad that I had to use my middle finger to keep on working.
    After I got pen & tablet the pains resided, touching the tablet with a pen gives the so much less stress, not to mention that it feels much more efficient than a mouse.

    Sure, decent tablets cost a whole lot more than mice but since we're talking about one of the primary ways we interact with computers here (and most of use spend several hours a day using them) I consider it money well spent.

  26. I don't get it. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 0, Troll
    I don't get it.

    Not that there is a need for ergonomic mice, but that people can get hurt by mice and keyboards.

    To me, it looks like an attitude problem. I've been working with computers for the last 25 years, where I've been at the keyboard/CRT/mice for hours at stretch (it's even worse since the Internet came about).

    Yet, I never had the slightest problem. Perhaps it is because I never always do the same thing, but vary what I do, that is, get a book, get a printout from the printer (which is purposefully set beyond arm reach), fiddle with the radio/mp3 player, and many little things that distract from my keyboard pounding/mouse fondling.

    Focusing may be good, but like anything else, too much of it is bound to be bad; I've worked with plenty of people so much focused on their stuff that they'd jump that high (no, higher than that) whenever they had the slightest interruption. And, guess what? They're the ones who get hurt with their keyboards...

    I mean, it's not hard to introduce some variation in one's daily routine. For supposedly creative people, it should not make them lose too much neurons on it, no?

    1. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You lack focus. If you're not hurting, you're not working.

    2. Re:I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been working with computers for the last 25 years,
      Since you have worked with computers for so long, you surely remember how solid a Model M is... you can kill a man with it and it still would work fine afterwards. Another "killing" tool was an Acorn mouse made of cast iron on the inside.

  27. Weight shmeight already by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Weight shmeight already. I have a microsoft wireless wheelmouse, and I don't notice the weight at all. It's certainly less of a pain in the arse than the drag of the cable, especially if you hve the gain set high. But then I've discovered this clever technique which I've christened sliding the fucking thing, not picking it up and juggling it.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:Weight shmeight already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to spend more time learning basic physics than being a jerk. Start with F = m * a. The higher the mass, the more force is required to get the same acceleration. Learn about friction (Fr = mu * N) and you'll find that you'll also have to overcome greater friction with a heavier (more massive) mouse all else being equal, of course.

    2. Re:Weight shmeight already by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Sorry, pal, did F=ma on the O level syllabus. Friction's in the A level. As I passed both at grade 'A' many years ago I have nothing to learn from an anonymous coward like you.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:Weight shmeight already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me again. If you were so friggin smart you would have realised you were talking crap in the first place. Clearly you haven't given up on being a jerk and are not as clever as you think you are. Yes, the laws of physics hold when you're sliding a mouse, not just when you pick it up. Class over.

  28. only 1/2 right by psycobrat · · Score: 1, Interesting

    these are all right handed. what about the other 1/2 of the world who is left handed?? or righties who prefer a left mouse?

    1. Re:only 1/2 right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA. At least one of them is available for lefties.

    2. Re:only 1/2 right by l3v1 · · Score: 1

      Yet another ignorance modded intresting. First, as other have stated, left handed people hardly make up about 1/10th of this planet's population. Second, whining won't help. Companies make devices which they can sell with considerable profit. I'd guess it isn't really profitable to spend on creating a huge variety of devices which can be sold in such low quantities. It's simple math. But, as others also can tell, it's not impossible to find good devices for left handed people, e.g. some companies have omnihanded (what a word :} mice, meaning it having a simmetrical shape, and other also have. I never thought (and I have quite a lot of left handed friends) that being left handed is such a big handicap (and neither did they).

      --
      I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  29. Dear Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there a site/resource that the greater geek community trust for ergonomic product reviews?

  30. Try a laptop mouse by alphorn · · Score: 1

    My ergonomics advice: Try a laptop mouse; the smaller the better. The reason is: You can control it using your fingers alone while the base of the hand rests on the table without moving - and you can pull it under your palm for vertical moves. That way you get high precision so you can set the mouse pointer to high speed; minimal movements then are enough to reach any point on the screen accurately. I would guess that helps with RSI.

    1. Re:Try a laptop mouse by B747SP · · Score: 1
      Try a laptop mouse; the smaller the better.

      Didn't work for me. I had no particular dramas at all, until we got a new batch of the smaller style hp/microsoft branded logitech mice, and I started having problems with aching across my knuckles the result of my hand trying to curl itself up to grip the narrow mouse.

      I started using the 3M renaissance mice then. ball ones back then, optical now.. I have the 3m mouse at home and at work, and never another problem with hand pain from mousing.

      The hand position that the 3m mouse requires means that you control it with your arm, not your wrist, and so there's quite a learning curve in getting accuracy up to a point where it's comfortable (a few hours at least). Some delicate work like photo retouching or cad is still pretty difficult with this style of mouse, but I keep an regular style mouse plugged in as well, and alternate between the two as required.

      --
      I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
    2. Re:Try a laptop mouse by mathgenius · · Score: 1

      the smaller the better.

      Dude, This is such a common misconception! RSI is a problem with the fine motor control; it's the small muscles that become damaged. So in fact: the bigger the better.

      Having said that, every RSI sufferer is different; injuries can happen in the strangest places, even having seemingly nothing to do with the muscles involved. eg. getting problems in the hip or leg muscles from using a computer. But even in that example it's more the fine layer of muscles that are effected and become inflamed.

      I speak from many years of experience :)

      Simon.

  31. Trackerballs rule. by cruachan · · Score: 1

    It's completely beyond me why anyone with the option not too should continue to use a mouse in the first place. Trackerballs are far superior as there's no arm movement involved and with most designs the left click is done using the thumb, which has stronger muscles than the index finger. Plus trackerballs are more flexible than mice for FPS's :-)

    I try to mix designs between computers on my desktop. Both the Logitech and Microsoft trackerballs are nice. I like the Logitech Marble Mouse (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detail s/GB/EN,CRID=2150,CONTENTID=5145) but it doesn't have a scroll wheel, which can be an issue in some cases. Unlike some trackerballs it's quite small, and I find it's quite feasible to carry one around for my laptop.

    For anyone whose having twinges or RSI and is still using a mouse I'd highly recommend trying a trackerball for a few days. They can take a few hours to get used to, but stick with it. I never get any problems at my own computers even after multiple days of 12+ hour sessions, but if I'm forced to use a mouse for an 8 hour day on a clients computer then my joints really know about it afterwards.

    1. Re:Trackerballs rule. by grumbel · · Score: 1

      ### It's completely beyond me why anyone with the option not too should continue to use a mouse in the first place.

      One reason, at least for me, is that trackballs suck for drag&drop, be it dragging files around or simply doing a rectangle selection, because those force you to old down one finger in a fixed position and wiggle around with another to move the cursor, feels very unnatural. Whenever I have a task that involves lots of drag&drop I switch back to mouse (Blender, gaming, etc). That said I find a trackball at the right side of the keyboard extremly usefull, especially when doing keyboard heavy tasks (Emacs), since its much quicker to reach then the mouse at the right side due to the numpad which is in the way. And while the Marble Mouse Trackball is quite nice, have one of those too, last not least because it was the only one for the left end, I found those trackballs that require your thumb to navigate the trackball extremly unconfortable, while they might be good for your wrist, they kill your thumb.

    2. Re:Trackerballs rule. by cruachan · · Score: 1

      That's interesting. Personally I find drag and drop significantly easier with a trackerball, particularly the Marble Mouse, because holding down the button with the thumb while moving a finger seems less strain to me than hoilding down a button with the forefinger. Indeed I seem to apply less pressure because I'm not moving the device at the same time.

  32. GHET-TO! by schwaang · · Score: 1

    Damn dude, even that squeeze ball thingy is ghetto'ed up with duct tape. You should definitely post over in hardocp's ghetto mod pics thread.

    [apologies-in-advance to anyone offended by my cultural insensitivity.]

  33. Driver hackers? Hardware modders? HELP by Sir_Real · · Score: 1

    Why can't I just use my old wingman joystick? And why don't they make a keyboard that's broken in half (like where most ergos split, but hinged) so you can type with the pinky side of your palm on the table and your your thumbs up? It'd have to be a laptop layout (no number pad) . And ideally it would have a convenient thumb track ball for one thumb and clicker under the other. I'll pay a crapload for that.

  34. Logitech Trackball Marble FX by bobv-pillars-net · · Score: 1

    Yup. I bought two of them back when they were in production, one for work and one for home. I wish I'd bought three or four. Be sure to add your post to the Logitech Forums asking them to bring it back.

    --
    The Web is like Usenet, but
    the elephants are untrained.
  35. MX1000 Laser Mouse, High DPI/Horrible Ergonomics by grumpygrodyguy · · Score: 1

    I really hope someone from Logitech is reading this article because I find their newer mice to be terribly uncomfortable. The MX1000 for instance requires you to grip it completely like a glove in order to get it to work, having to constanly 'grip' the mouse for hours while playing fps games is exhausting and totally annoying. I usually prefer to simply rest my wrist on the mousepad, and have my digit finger hover over the LMB. Whenever I need to move the mouse I pivot around where my wrist makes contact w/ the mousepad, or I lift my wrist up slightly and move it, ending back in the resting position w/ my wrist on the mousepad. I can sit at my computer and game for 10 hours like this comfortably. I didn't last 20 minutes using the MX1000.

    So I ended up switching back to my old ball mouse simply because the ergonomics of the MX1000 were unbearable. I miss the high dpi, but certainly don't miss the hand cramps. Overall I'm much happier with the cheap $10 ball mouse than the $60 laser MX1000.

    --
    The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
  36. Re:Driver hackers? Hardware modders? HELP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out the GoldTouch keyboards - they do exactly what you're talking about. I have one and I love it!

  37. Moving the mouse helps too by lsommerer · · Score: 1
    This guy I used to play Ultima Online with was looking for a way to make mousing more comfortable and he decided that changing the mouse's location was as helpful for him as changing the mouse. He says its for RSI, but I think he was tired of getting waxed in online games.

    Anyway, be designed a plastic mousepad that attaches to the arm of your chair, so your mouse is where your hand already is. He had someone produce a few thousand of them and he's selling them now. You can look at them here if you're interested.

    Disclaimer: I designed his website for him, but the bastard doesn't give me a dime from sales.

  38. Re:MX1000 Laser Mouse, High DPI/Horrible Ergonomic by Eideewt · · Score: 1

    I sort of agree with you. The mouse does seem to be stupidly shaped, but once I put my ring finger on top of the mouse with my middle finger (rather than trying to shove it down on the side with my pinky) and kept my palm off the mouse I've had no trouble.

  39. Re:only 1/2 right (no where near half) by SlashdotOgre · · Score: 1

    Left handed people account for only roughly 10-12% of the world population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lefthanded#Statistic s_of_left-handedness), and I doubt right handed users who prefer the a left mouse make up 38-40%.

    --
    Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.
  40. Er.... by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    .... you are not using your mouse correctly.

    You should slide it on the surface where you work, no need to raise it rom it....

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:Er.... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1
      .... you are not using your mouse correctly.

      I don't think you're being very fair. Sure, you don't have to pick the thing up, but the weight of the mouse does contribute to the effort needed to move it (force = mass x acceleration, remember?) and unless your desk is mirror-smooth, friction will contribute as well.

  41. Only around 10% of people are left handed. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Not half. Talk about inflating your statistics, leftie.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  42. Four tips to save you from RSI by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've tried TouchPads, trackballs, and various mice. After 20 years of computing, here are four things that I recommend to everyone:

    1. Learn how to type by touch. It isn't difficult.

    2. Reduce your clicks: use X-mouse focussing. (If you use Windows, install Microsoft's TweakUI Powertoy. If you use X, you have the setting somewhere.)

    3. Keep your forearms flat on your desk. Adjust your chair's height if you must.

    4. Use a REAL ergonomic keyboard, one with the split-key design. (Any keyboard that does not have the split-key design is ~not~ ergonomic.)

    --
    Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
    1. Re:Four tips to save you from RSI by dodobh · · Score: 1

      IBM Model M.

      --
      I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
  43. You have two hands and enough disposable income. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    And before the insensitive clod jokes show up (sorry if you are an unemployed amputee) I thnk the above is a fair generalization to make.

    Get 4 mice, as different as possilbe one from each other and then make sure you also use both of your hands.

    I for example have 2 rodents in the office and 2 more at home.

    In the office I use the left hand, at home I use the right hand (dirty, dirty you old dirty you) and increase variety by changing mice every couple of weeks or so (now this is all sounding very fishy).

    So there you go.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  44. Enough with the over-priced gimics by Malc · · Score: 1

    Switch hands. Use keyboard shortcuts.

    Whenever I've had problems related to the mouse, I've switched it to the other side of my keyboard. When injured one shouldn't continue to abuse it. Let it heal.

    I'm right-handed but normally use the mouse left-handed. This has the added bonus that I can still write or type with my right-hand.

    The best solution to mouse related problems is to just not use the bloody thing. This seems to be easier under Windows than X mind you.

  45. Flaky buttons on 3M by Roger_Wilco · · Score: 1

    I have a funky 3M mouse, and it's nice, except that the buttons are too cheap. The first one I had, the buttons failed within two weeks. In particular, they could switch between open and closed without clicking, and without the finger moving any significant amount. I returned it to the store, got a new one; after about two months the same thing happened. I opened it up, removed the case of the switches, deformed the little bit of metal to push down a little harder, and it works fine.

    I'm a little surprised, frankly; I would have thought that the switches would be more precisely manufactured, and that mashing them with pliers wouldn't help. :}

  46. Trackball by int19h · · Score: 1

    After using a Logitech wireless trackball-thingy for about a year, I am completely converted.

    I beat my mates in FPS-games with my trackball.
    I do my work with my trackball.
    I surf the net with my trackball.

    All without any pains in my shoulder or writst. Ever.

    I'll probably stick with trackballs for the rest of my life.

  47. Someone tell Richard Gere! by FIT_Entry1 · · Score: 0

    Genetically designed to fit into the lower colon PERFECTLY!!!111

  48. Re:Driver hackers? Hardware modders? HELP by shotgunefx · · Score: 1

    Comfort Keyboards are like that. Nicely made but expensive. I went through a point were I couldn't type any more. Just too painful. Used this for six months and all was right. I did end up going back to a normal keyboard though.

    --

    -William Shatner can be neither created nor destroyed.
  49. Trackball is the word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    Trackball is the word.

  50. It MAKES sense: left hand pencil, right hand trkbl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    It makes sense for left-handed people to use a mouse on the right. It frees the left hand to do what the left hand is go for.

  51. Meet your clone by Trixter · · Score: 1

    Well, meet your long-lost clone. I too am a model M nut, and I too covet my trackball. However, I never got the model you like because I coulnd't play FPS games with it... instead I went for their el-cheap-o $29 model where my hand rests firmly on top of the ball.

    At work, I managed to procure one of the Model Ms with the built-in trackpoint... I almost shot a load when I finally got my hands on it. :-) All day at work my hands NEVER LEAVE THE KEYBOARD. It's ludicrous how much faster I can work than my coworkers :-)

  52. Only 10% of people are gay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    Only 10% of people are gay, but they get so much press it's ridiculous.

  53. MOD PARENT UP by cdrdude · · Score: 0

    Seriously. That beats most of the Score 5, Funny's that I've seen.

    --
    This sig is neither interesting, nor humorous. Including meta-humor.
  54. touchpads anyone by The+Vaxorcist · · Score: 1

    Even when I'm on a desktop, I use a touchpad (see http://www.enablemart.com/productGroupDetail.aspx? store=10&dept=24&group=58). I tried trackballs for a while, but they're kinda cumbersome and they required too rigid a position - my hand still hurts. Touchpads allow you a relaxed enough position that you shouldn't start hurting. Only problem is that if you are playing a game, your fingers get sweaty and it loses sensitivity... Oh, and they don't squeak!

    --
    Murphy's law is recursive, washing your car to make it rain doesn't work.
  55. The 3M Ergonomic Mouse Rocks! by xyu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a 23 year old programmer, and I already have bad carpal tunnel in my right arm, and sorta bad in my left. I was so bad that I'd get tingling and a dull pain in my wrist after 15 minutes of computer use.

    I say "had" because sometime around March I bought one of the 3M Ergonomic Mice. It was the best $50 I ever spent. The mouse is shaped like a joystick and has 3 buttons. It was hard to aim at first, but after a week I was back to 90% accuracy. (100% after 2 weeks). After adjusting I can play FPS games at my old skill level.

    I started a new job in May, and I used an old-style mouse. After a month the pain came back, and I got my employer to purchase me one for work.

    I can now use a computer all day, and have no pain at all in my wrist! I now look forward to a lifetime of happy mousing!

  56. I have a couple of these... by bburdette · · Score: 1

    ... at home, and both of them had the thumb switch fail. I ended up hacksawing the handle off and gluing the switch back with some epoxy and model airplane parts. It worked ok, but I'm not really convinced these are the way to go anymore. Now I use the touchpad on my laptop, and a cheap laser mouse on my entertainment pc, and they both work fine. BTW, this is from when the '3M' mouse was sold under a different brand name about 5 years ago. Its an old design, and it looks like the switches still suck. But the reviewer is wrong about gaming with them, I played quake II and whatever else with them just fine.

  57. The mice know... by mintrepublic · · Score: 1

    42

    1. Re:The mice know... by alelade · · Score: 0

      What was the question?

  58. And.. by bburdette · · Score: 1

    And i forgot to mention, they also make my thumb ache after a while.

  59. Same here by melted · · Score: 1

    Had some serious wrist pain (couldn't sleep for a week), bought TrackMan Marble FX on eBay. Struggled with it for two weeks, and got used to it. No pain since then. I've bought two more. One for use at home and one just in case either of the other two breaks (which I don't think it will - there's nothing in it that can break).

  60. Yeah, but... by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    My right-handed college roommate mouses with his left hand.

    Me, I'm left-handed, but mouse right. I still prefer symmetric mice though. They're a lot smaller. I just don't like huge mice.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
  61. Raynaud's Disease?????? by Chocolate+Teapot · · Score: 1
    ...numb tingly fingers...

    ...set the upper white thumb button to dounle-click...

    It gives you white thumbs? Seriously, you may want to look at reducing the vibration from that thing ;)

    --
    Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
  62. Re:Driver hackers? Hardware modders? HELP by soccerisgod · · Score: 1

    Also look at the Siemens KB-PC E - the E is for ergonomic. I've been using it for 2 years or so now, in conjunction with a mouse that is very much like the 3M from this test, and it has really helped me a lot. The Siemens KB is very comfy, has palm rests, is split in the middle and the angle can be changed, plus it can be raised in the middle to two different levels of height, allowing for a very natural position of the hands.

    http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/products/prof_acc essories_mainboards/keyboards_mice/special_keyboar ds/kbpc_e.html

    --
    If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
  63. Re:MX1000 Laser Mouse, High DPI/Horrible Ergonomic by l3v1 · · Score: 1

    As always, you can't make a one-type-fits-all mouse (or keyboard). For you, that mouse didn't work. Probably nobody said it would. Sell it, find another. For me, the mx500, and now the mx1000 (almost the same shape) proved to be the most comfortable mice I ever had.

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  64. Left handers? by theolein · · Score: 1

    What about left handers? Are they conveniently forgotten by mouse makers when designing so-called ergonomic monstrosties?

  65. Try JoyMouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.geocities.com/saravkrish/progs/joymouse /index.html

    Try it. I wrote it quite some time back (several years). It hopefully should work now too. Sorry it's only for Windows... I was a windows programmer then. Hardcore linux programmer now.

    Thanks,
    Saravana

  66. logitech cordless trackman wheel by amoeba47 · · Score: 1

    Personally, I love the Logitech Cordless Trackman Wheel mouse http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=products/de tails&contentid=5001&crid=6&detail=2&countryid=19& languageid=1 I had some discomfort using a standard mouse and love the trackball mechanism. Very comfortable.

  67. Distribute stress to both hands by heni30 · · Score: 1

    I stumbled onto this unorthodox technique out of desparation. I hook up two mice at the same time. I use the mouse on the right to position the cursor and the mouse on the left to click. The clicking motion can be a straight finger poke down which eliminates finger movement for clicking which seems to be the cause of RSI. Pain and tingling subsided immediately.

  68. I also cured my RSI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I touch myself at work!

    Honestly it's the best thing I ever did. I recommend it to anyone that does like masturbating.

  69. She was stopping to ask for directions? by TheLink · · Score: 1

    Heh, is that how you figured out that the mouse was female? ;)

    --
    1. Re:She was stopping to ask for directions? by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1
      Heh, is that how you figured out that the mouse was female? ;)
      Oh. I'm french, and in french, words have gender. "Mouse" is feminine, so we say "she" even though it's a male...
  70. Re:IBM model M by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 1

    The good things about the M keyboard, you already know: it is solidly built (value) and provides good tactile response (the lack of which may contribute to RSI). You could also use it as a pry-bar and a snowboard.

    The bad things about your beloved are: it's loud; its right-handedness (movement keys and number-pad on the right) became The Standard but is awkward for a significant percentage of people; the grid-layout of the letter keys forces the user's arms inward and straight ahead, or forces the wrists to bend outward -- either of these positions will cause physical pain given enough time.

    By the way, bending an opponent's wrist outward the way your model M will bend your wrist is a very effective submission hold in ju-jitsu, judo, and likely in other fighting styles.

    Microsoft did a good thing in selling the truly ergonomic Natural Keyboard. However, I was puzzled to see in stores recently a Microsoft keyboard labelled "ergonomic" that isn't ergonomic at all, except for a "wrist support".

    --
    Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
  71. Use hind paws by 2901 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've put a trackball on the floor, and I'm spinning the ball with my toes. That spares my hands and lets me leave my fingers in the home position for touch typing on the keyboard.

    The trackball only has two buttons and I need three for X11 on FreeBSD so I've started the mouse demon with

    moused -p /dev/cuaa1 -3 -E 500
    "-3" gives me three button emulation, "-E" adjusts how simultaneous the left and right buttons have to be to count as the middle button. I boost it from 100ms to 500ms to accomodate my relative lack of coordination when I try to click both buttons with my toes
  72. I'm sure this is valuable information, but... by Xeo2 · · Score: 1

    I'm sure this is valuable information, but I couldn't even get through the first half page. This is probably the worst written thing I've seen on Slashdot all month. There's a writer and an editor credited on the page, so you'd think some sort of effot had gone into this article. The sentence construction and word choice is just painful to read. It's great to see the sort of journalistic standards news websites are holding themselves to these days.

    --
    ___ alwaysBETA.com - Hey, you've got nothing better to do.
  73. Re: 10.4 by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 1

    10.4 Lets me use all 5 buttons on my mouse WITHOUT any additional driver. I have Left Click, Right Click, Scrolling, Center Click (as expose all), side button 1 (set to expose application), and Side button 2 (as Dashboard). Though to be honest I mostly just use right, left and scoll.

  74. Where are the USB/BT bridges? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    I've been looking high and low for a box that will take a USB generic HID on one end and output Bluetooth generic HID on the other. I'd buy one for my keyboard and mouse - all the better if the device can do both at once.

    This sounds like the kind of thing where there should be at least 7 Taiwanese manufacturers with bridge chips but for some reason it doesn't seem so.

    Can anyone provide links to existing solutions or a theory as to why these don't exist?

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  75. RSI experience by neoguri · · Score: 1

    I've had RSI and had therapy. It hasn't gone but is very much controllable. My experience (YMMV):
    -the problem is in the shoulder and neck, not in the wrists
    -regular exercise/sports help
    -I you don't work out find stretchs that help you to relax you neck and shoulders
    -if you experience any kind of sensation stop straight away and relax your shoulders and arms
    -if you experience any kind of sensation don't finish what you are doing first
    -to relax shoulders and arms let them dangle along your body
    -when you know you're going to be busy plan breaks in advance

  76. Re:IBM model M by dodobh · · Score: 1

    I keep my keyboard in my lap, which lead to a far more natural typing position.

    Oh, and the loud is a benefit. Audio feedback helps a lot.

    --
    I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
  77. Apple's Mighty Mouse is very RSI friendly by barbarus · · Score: 1

    After 20 years (without RSI complaints) switching to a Windows (Dell) PC started to give RSI complaints rather quickly. Switching back to an Apple mouse (the Mighty Mouse works fine in Windows)solved the problem. The mouse is very light and maybe my hand/arm is used to it.