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Open Source Design in risk?
Stylissimo writes "OSWD.org, the biggest source for free open source web templates, has been offline for several weeks, which has caused a dilemma for the large number of webmasters who rely on open source design. While some of the OSWD.org designers are doing their best to keep the open source design scene alive, others are worried that the absence of OSWD.org will hit the internet hard and maybe even kill the scene. Aaron Nikula, administrator of OSWD.org, has published a statement about the situation and the site may be back again."
HELLO WORLD
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HELLO WORLD
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K-BYE
They're already having trouble getting their site back up, and then you decide to go and slashdot them? Good lord, have you no sense of decency???
Hero of Allacrost, a FOSS RPG for *NIX/*BSD/OS X/Win
I suspect they're in trouble because they're not performing a valuable enough service. Linux never has trouble finding funding because it's so valuable to people that Linux stay in healthy shape. I've taken a look through OSWD before and found most of the sites were ugly. Not only that, they wouldn't adapt well to a site design I have in mind.
So it goes.
Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
I doubt it will affect the "open source design scene" whatever that is. Are we just talking about free web layouts or actual code? Seems there are many alternative sites that will continue to provide such goodies.
If someone did died (permantly or not) it will be replaced as soon as it needs to be. Geeks tend to like to have tools ready when they need them. So if one is missing theopen source geeks will start to work on it. No matter the name or brand everything will return from it's death in some form.
I like muppets.
If they are so important why doesn't Slashdots parent company host them?
others are worried that the absence of OSWD.org will hit the internet hard
I doubt anyone will really notice.
Catch it here, at Slashdot.
...I've been wondering. The site has been very valuable to me for several months now...infact it had become part of my daily, check this site for new stuff rotation. Hopefully they can resolve whatever dispute is keeping them offline soon, or the remaining interested parties will start a new site to replace it.
Unfortunately its sounding rather like greed has reared up in the wake of the disaster...
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
If you actually read the linked article (yeah I know that is a lot to expect around here and all that) then you will find out the problem isn't the lack of hosting it is that the founder seems to be holding the site ransom without actually posting a ransom but it seems like he wishes to make the site more comercial.
In the drops - An Aussie's musings on all things cycling
If it is an open source movement and the web site is dead with the possibility of it never going up again, is it not in the realm of possibility that others will pick up the pieces and do another one?
Isn't that the point of Open Source? The ability that others can take the source and do with it as they wish as long as the results are also open source?
The death of a web site doesn't mean the death of the OSWD community...unless no one cares and they all let it die.
Phoenix
-- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
Wow, someone managed to mention 'oswd.org' four times in as little as three sentences and still get it posted to slashdot!
:)
Good marketing job, I must admit
OK so this is offtopic, but honestly...what exactly is 'news' about some site that I doubt many people here have even heard of being offline for a few weeks?
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
I know this is Slashdot, where no one bothers to read the articles, but after reading roughly 10 comments that were speculation (and completely incorrect based on the information presented in the links), I decided I had to steer the discussion back on track. Mod me down if you want.
// If there's already another response like this, I apologize. It took me a while to write this.
6 5475&postcount=40.
The reason (as stated in the articles) why OSWD.org is down is because the person that started the OSWD.org site, Frank, is trying to keep control over the site, although he isn't doing the majority of the work behind mantaining the site.
Sure, OSWD.org had some hosting issues, but that's not why the site isn't back up; the (seems to me) Second in Command, Aaron, who is dedicating a lot of time and effort into maintaining the site wants to migrate the site to a new host (and has already had everthing set up), except for the content/backups, which Frank refuses to provide.
There are some controversial issues:
After OSWD.org gained some popularity in the beginnings, Frank added a "commercial venture" to the site, the 'templat e monster affiliate program', which was non-free. Aaron's concerns is that it was confusing people and because it was non-free.
I think the issue here is more of "what happens if the project leader is unwilling to provide the content (or source code) for a project, and wants to maintain it tightly within their grasp?" I know the common first reaction would be to say "Fork it!", but how can you fork if you don't have the content or source? OSWD.org (presumably) has has a lot of templates submitted, for which a second backup copy may or may not exist.
DISCLAIMER: I am not affiliated with OSWD.org, nor do I remember having visited them in the past. I may have, but all information above is from the articles linked, namely http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22
http://www.sitepoint.com.nyud.net:8090/forums/show post.php?p=2265475&postcount=40
If you guys read the statement, you will understand that the site is not down because of technical difficulties, but of because of "A Lazy Owner" and bickering between the volunteers, If they don't want to bother bringing the site back down, the least they could do is to distribute the content, so that other people can host it themselves. After the all the website belongs to them, but the content doesnt.
How long until someone starts crying?
What open-source information and reference site(s) would you find it most difficult to live without? What if freshmeat just disappeared? Or osnews? Or Slashdot or SourceForge?
Just curious.
~~~~~~~
"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
IN risk, or AT risk... Hmm.
Potato, Potahtoe.
It's lucky you made you clear you were interested in which open-source information and reference site(s) slashdotters couldn't live without. I'm really not sure I'd like to know about some of the other sites people here visit on a regular basis ....
I think the article is making a pretty bold claim. Most of these situations tend to resolve themselves eventually and something as trivial as a website doesn't cause death. This reminds me of the days when a major local warez bbs got busted and the scene was declared "dead." Yeah right.
What especially strikes me is about the part "webmasters who rely on open source design." If you're a real designer, you shouldn't have to rely on anything like this except your own talent. Things like this site are certainly a great help and can speed things along, but I do not see how anyone can attach "designer" to their name and then feel the world is over when a website they use is down. Furthermore, there are other websites out there that may be smaller, but do a good job catering to this audience.
Forgive my ignorance, but design sites were around before this site and will be after. Apparently their design didn't accomodate actually hosting content reliably -- perhaps that should be included in their next template.
If a project is useful, and the people in control of the project won't help the project evolve in some direction or just sit on it and do nothing, you fork the code. In this case, you might not have access to the website source code, but I would think there would be an archive somewhere.
This is the reason why there should be at least two independent people in charge of open source projects.
I find it kind of ridiculous that one man appears to have the power to eliminate a valuable resource used by thousands of users. That just can't be right.
>|<*:=
worried that the absence of OSWD.org will hit the internet hard and maybe even kill the scene.
... Wow.. I must be surfing slashdot again...
I will have to stop writing open source when some crappy servlet site dies?
What does that stand for? I've been a Linux developer for just over 10 years and I've never heard of this site.
I work with him, and he is currently re-coding the site and it should be up soon.
I do not know anything about the 'political' drama that Aaron claims, nor do I know if it will be resolved.
I write code.
OSWD Who?
Looking at the site in the http://www.oswd.org/">WaybackMachine it looks like I could have really used that site in the past. Apparently it was a collection of website designs with the HTML/CSS/JS posted. I love doing web-development (especially the back-end XML processing etc) but I'm not the most creative person out there so having a an entire collection of designs I could flip through all in one play wwould be handy for me to slap-together a oook of my own when I need to. I'm book marking that site just incase it comes back. Heres to hoping.
Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
#include <obligatory-seth-finkelstein-rant-about-michael-si ms-and-censorware-dot-org.h>
F/OSS principles say that the advantage of having an open product is that you can fix problems in it if you need to. You're free to do this because the source code is available for you to work on. HTML is a lousy example of something that should *need* to be opensourced. It's *distributed* in source form. Ergo, anyone using it can modify and edit the html as they see fit. I don't see what the point of making a few people do a lot of work so the lazy can profit is. That's all this encourages, is a bunch of people who get to sell YOUR work for nothing. The only time this might make sense is with images, where the final product, and the raw photoshop image are different. I think a site like this is a mistake, and will only aim to create a bunch more clueless webmasters who don't need to understand anything, because the good people at oswd.com are doing it all for you. Thanks guys.
The biggest complaint I hear from freelance designers (who are very good at what they do, unlike the clueless masses of people who think they are web design gods) is that they lose contracts on a regular basis to people who either a) rip sites, or b) use sites like this for their designs. These people have no talent, no skill and no ability. They haven't worked at perfecting any kind of art. They simply take free things and copy/paste them together, and then sell them as their own to people who would otherwise be clients of people who do it for real, and produce a superior product.
I know what you're thinking, that it's a free market, and that people should have the right to choose, but often times what happens is the client only sees the bid value. Of course, the people who use sites like oswd will charge a lot less mostly because after they throw up their stock site, with their stock images, and their stock PHP code, it has taken them less than a few hours of work. On the other hand, it takes a professional a week or more to do something original and worth having.
So, excuse me if I don't shed a tear for oswd. Truth be told, I'd rather see them shut down. They help facilitate the mutilation of an industry that many independants rely on. I'm not talking about large corporations either, but people like you and me, living paycheque to paycheque on their talents and abilities.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Never heard of it.
...others are worried that the absence of OSWD.org will hit the internet hard and maybe even kill the scene.
Experts say that apart from the hundreds of ugly website templates OSWD.org was known for, it also maintained secret codes vital to the functioning of the TCP/IP protocol stack, which are now inaccessible. It is believed that their absence could bring the internet as we know it to a grinding halt. Engineers at the IETF and W3C are reportedly hard at work developing an alternative protocol stack that could replace TCP/IP, should such an catastrophe occur.
Meanwhile, U.S. President George W. Bush has stated that he is willing to use military force to liberate TCP/IP from the oppression of OSWD.org, in keeping with America's historic role as protector of the internet.
I'm certain that many of us who have benefited from you would be willing to drop you some cash via PayPal. I use a very responsive hosting company and have had no complaints so far. If you like, I'd be happy to help you get back up and running with a new URL. Just sign in and leave a private message on blog (URL above) and we'll get cracking.
2 cents,
Queen B
HDGary secures my bank
http://www.freewebtemplates.com/
http://www.4layouts.com/
http://www.freelayouts.com/
etc. etc.
Pretty mixed bag in terms of quality but they all have quite a few, and they're all "Open Source".
I'd say, buy a new domain and start fresh, Aaron. Do your thing.
Same )3orthless
The FOSS movement will manage to survive, without them.
reason this was modded funny beats me...but c'mon moderators!!
mod parent up as informative!
.oo00OO
I am/was/will be a user of OSWD (the open source bit rather than the tacky commerical section). I have quite a few of the zips on my hard disk, others users may do too if they search enough. How about someone puts a new site up - GNUwebdesign or whatever and we can send them all in.
Contact the user known as 'Haran' too, he wrote all the best XHTML ones.
My little Linux and tech blog
When Frank pays somebody to get the site back up for him, someone should just rip the designs and spawn a competitor the community can trust and participate in.
in risk ?
Don't you mean "at risk ?" ?
Right before the site went down, there was a lot of talk about licensing. People would sometimes complain that one design was based on another design; there were occasional incidents of people submitting copyrighted work. A discussion popped up not too long ago about the need for a clear license that submissions would be under.
I found OSWD to be incredibly useful, but I hope that, when it comes back, it'll have an explicit license agreement.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
real designers can work without canned templates. nuff said
one shouldnt wonder why slashdot is trolling... I am surprised that noone has pointed out that these problems occur more frequently with O_pen S_ource than F_ree S_oftware:r eedom.html
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-f
Don't count on this story being about greed either. We've only heard one side of the story. Having nothing to compare that to there is no way to know the accuracy of that version.
Though it wasn't the other party in question ("Frank"), someone did speak up for him. Look for the poster hatrisc in earlier replies. He claims that Frank is recoding the site.
Again, who knows what the truth is but it doesn't make any sense to be adamant about your position (over someone elses) when there are insufficient facts at hand.
Oh right, slow news day, prob with slashdot is that it's turned into pure sensationalism, proof that not even online news sources (this is more like a news portal) are safe.
Now then, this started happening a while back, and from the article, it basically states that they're okay now, they have new hosting and the only thing that will kill it now is if the founder gets bored.
Yep, totally news worthy.
Apparently, according to this announcement on oswd.org,
Aaron (the one who did a large amount of work) is the one holding the site ransom until Frank (the original creator of OSWD) agrees to transfer ownership of the site to him. Aaron does have the database that constitute the designs on OSWD, and nothing prevents him from forking the site. All he wants now is the ownership.
I once had a signature.
Frank (OSWD owner) may have been a lazy bum, but Aaron (one who did a lot of work on OSWD) does have a copy of the content of OSWD database and nothing prevents him from forking a new site. I think Aaron's previous post is deliberately misleading, as he blames Frank to be the source of problem.
It seems more likely that Aaron is holding the site in ransom until Frank agrees to transfer OSWD ownership to him.
I once had a signature.
Aaron may be a dope, but frank's statements mark him as someone not telling the truth.
I have no dog in this hunt, but Frank's whining about "I was all set to bring it up and that bad Arron erased the content". That's the excuse you use in 10th grade as to why your homework wasn't done.
Wow.. what is wrong with you people?
Try:
http://www.csszengarden.com/
I've tooled around the site a few times and really, it never impressed me. Maybe I'm jaded, but sites like kde-look seem to hit the mark much closer.
Quack, quack.
...deserving of the front page? is it a slow day on slashdot?
Perhaps more opensource info should be posted on newsgroups and p2p networks as well as to websites? That might make it easier to recover data when the site collapses and the owner is hard to contact.
Interesting...look at the site now...
Did Frank bow to preasure, or was the thought of his "baby" moving beyond his control too much?
--- I was far from home, and the spell of the Eastern sea was upon me. -Lovecraft-
OSWD.org.
The founder has decided to redesign the website. He's also saying that the db was erased and he's currently trying to get a copy of it.
Text is as follows:
A notice.
OSWD is currently down. Over the past three weeks, I have developed a new version of the site, complete with a redesign and new backend.
I was looking to relaunch tomorrow, however, upon inspection of the data on the old server, I believe Aaron "MonkeyMan" Nikula has deleted the contents of the database. After reading some of what Aaron has posted on the SitePoint Forums, I am under the impression he has made a copy of the database before deletion.
I hope to have the database recovered shortly and the site relaunched as soon as possible. I apologize to the faithful community OSWD has fostered over the past half decade.
Frank Skettino
Founder, OSWD
while oswd.org is down, you can browse the designs at my mirror: http://www.alteredbeast.org/oswd