Slashdot Mirror
Cow Tipping is a Myth
Faeton writes "It's the kind of story you hear from a friend of a friend -- how, after a long night in a rural hostelry and at a loss for entertainment in the countryside, they head out into a nearby field.
There, according to the second-hand accounts, they sneak up on an unsuspecting cow and turn the poor animal hoof over udder.
But now, much to the relief of dairy herds, the sport of cow-tipping has been debunked as an urban, or perhaps rural, myth by scientists at a Canadian university.
"
From TFA:Five normal people, perhaps...or perhaps just one college football jock, hopped up on steriods and Jagermeister...
(Before the naysayers start yammering about the misconceptions of steroid use, let me relate a personal experience of mine. Back in my college days, I watched my football jock roommate (an avowed Nandralone user) put his shoulder through the dorm room wall (concrete block), during a Jager bender. I doubt a mere cow would have had much of a chance against this guy.)
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Is the center of mass really at exactly half the cow's height? Looking at the image in the article, most of the mass is distributed above the COM. The assumption of people only being able to push their own bodyweight is unexplained as well.
That's the shit that feds me up
As someone from bible belt heartland america, we have a few dairy cows. And I personally have been a party to cow tipping, and it is completely possible, and 4 of us did it.
So tell me how that's impossible again?
First off, cows sleep laying down. I lived on a dairy for 15 years and had to wake them up.
So, if the cow is standing, it is awake.
Next, a good sized dairy cow weighs in at over 1000 lbs.
Standing, feet average width apart -- you, scrawny programmer boy (or me, an almost athetic 200 lbs) aint just gonna nock the thing over. Head start or no.
But, it was a fun joke to pull on the city kids.
Bad User. No biscuit!
My whole belief system is undone.
Geography is also an important factor to consider. For example: If the animal in question to be tipped is located in Kansas, the calculation must also include the force exerted by an Intelligent Tipper.
I always tip my cows 15%, you insensitive clods!
This sig no verb.
now what are cheeseheads gonna do for fun?
I believe I speak for all the cows when I say, "Mooo?"
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
This story is total BS! A friend of my cousin's friends sister TOTALLY did this last summer after they got hammered at this party and it was AWESOME the cow was like "WTF?!" and they were all like "HAHA!" and then they ran off 'cause the farmer was coming! Seriously you can ask anybody!
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
COW TIP YOU!!! I have only HERD the stories but those that told it were good friends and their parents.
But then it was a Ninja cow and it totally flipped out and killed people! And it's because cows are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
so we're supposed to just accept this as conclusive even though they didn't test their "findings", aren't physicists or mathematicians, make all kinds of assumptions, and no one else has reproduced their experiment (even thoough you can't since they didn't actually do an experiment which means they don't have real findings)? I'll believe it when the mythbusters come out with an episode about it.
if i'm not immortal, what's the point of living?
...te?
Obviously these scientists haven't done very thorough field research. I'm from a small rural town of 1600 people, and I've witnessed cow tippings.
Growing up in the rural midwest....
Cow tipping, as we implimented it, was not myth - it was a prank.
We would convince a unsuspecting victim that we were going cow tipping - drive to a field far from town and send in unsuspecting victim to dodge the land mines that cows leave to protect themselves and then drive away leaving the victim walk miles back to town in the dark with their cow dung covered shoes.
I wonder if we could get Jack Malvern to go for a ride so that we could 'disprove' is article? buhuhhahahahahaa
...idiots. People who think that armed with some basic knowledge of statics think they can actually figure out what happens when you do complex things to complex objects. Cows can stand in a variety of poses allowing their center of mass to be in a variety of position with respect to their hooves and their legs will tend to buckle if pressure is applied suddenly from one side. I can see an armchair physicist maybe getting an estimate to within a factor of 2 or 3 of what force is required to tip a cow using the naive methods described, but not much better. I wonder if these are the same people who told us bees can't fly.
were invented. Who does crap manually?
Stories about cow tipping are bull!
That's Bigboo TAY! TAY!
I'd like to see the Mythbusters crew try this one out... though it's a little cruel to the cow whether it works or not
Cows can stand in a variety of poses allowing their center of mass to be in a variety of position with respect to their hooves
Yeah, the best time to get them is when they're doing "tree" pose and are just balanced over one leg, or "standing bow" when they're on one leg and are hanging most of their mass way out front.
Cows standing asleep (they sleep both standing and on the ground.) can be tipped, I've seen it done on my grandmothers farm, but the cow was on a mound.
Its tipping, not pushing. They article shows what it would take to *push* a cow over..
But whats really funny is when dogs bite the tail of a cow and the cow spins lifting the dog up in the air, thats funny.
Its only funny because its true.
Cow tipping is possible. How do I know? Do I know some guy that saw some guy do it? Nope. I've done it. The article focuses on simply applying the force to the top of the cow. That doesn't work. Everybody in my county knows that. For those interested (I'm not really sure why you would be, but then again I probably don't want to know...), you have to push/pull the cow's legs while pushing on the top. A popular "trick" around here is to tie the cow's hooves together (a sort of looseish hog-tie) before tipping, pull on the rope... the cow is down and it cant kick properly, so it wont get back up without a whole lot of help, and because it's kicking, you can't get close enough to cut the rope for a while... Yes, I'll admit it (just this once); I'm from the one of the hickest towns in the country...
... using only one person and a length of rope, simply bind the bovine's legs with your back agains the beast pull the rope from under your legs while using your back to gain leverage.
Of course there's no need for tipping. Cow vagina is big enough to accept whole human penis length. Tipping (putting just the penis head in) is applicable only to small animals.
Um, I have cow tipped, with my friends on my high school football team. I do not recall ever tipping over a cow, because we were too busy getting chased and pinned against the fences. Perhaps watching a 5'7 250 pound lineman get lifted by the crotch by a pissed heifer can be considered Cow Tipping? It was all fun and games until the skinny guy pissed on the electric fence. It isn't about tipping the cows over, it is about the comraderie and the lifelong experiences..and the risk of possible incapacitating lifelong spinal injuries...those are the things that make cow tipping an experience that no bible thumper should be without.
Cows where not Designed to be tip. This more science than that article.
This is crap. I *personally* have witnessed a cow tipping. It is not that difficult. When the cow is asleep, it is not consciously adjusting for it's balence, if you run at it and give it a hard shove, it falls over pretty easily. I have seen it myself.
For those who don't get the subject, I suggest http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040911/matht rek.asp
If you have really lived on a dairy for 15 years I would have a hard time believing you did not know this.
And knocking over a 1000 pound mass that is resting on a relativly narrow base with a high center of mass is actually pretty simple for someone who is 200 lbs, if they get a small dashing start for the first frew feet (which you need anyway to be fast enough to get the cow before it awakes).
I really love the choice of words there. I've got a mental image now of a cow doing an exciting combat stance. Ginyuu Toku-Sentai: Ushi! Attakku!
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Yeah, 'cause, physics, you know, that has NEVER been good for anything, ever......
To tip a living being is EASIER than tipping a statue. Living things are easily surprised and taken off-balance. :-) Hope Adam or Jamie or someone else MythBuster reads /. ...
My personal experience with ruminants is: I ran over a horse once and I ran over a cow, too.
The horse: I was at 110km/h (70mph) in a 1979 GM Chevette whose brake system, unknowingly to me up till that time, was defective. I saw the horse going to the middle of the road at 150m distance, hit the brakes, and nothing! I swung the car to the left (so I could avoid hitting the horse on me), and the horse rolled (ONCE) over the right side of my car (broke the windshield and I had to repair the right A-column) and fell on his feet. Speed on impact: at least 80km/h (50mph). Horse weight: 600kg. The horse survived, with a broken rib.
The cow: I was at 110km/h (70mph) in a 1995 Fiat Tempra. It was 11pm and I was coming back from a 600km (370mi) away one-day trip. I saw the cow at less than 100m (110yd) distance, and hit the brakes, slowing down to something in the range of 50-60 km/h (30-37 mph) in the point of impact. The cow rolled TWICE over the front of the car and THRICE again in the floor behind the car (there was no escape to me because a truck was coming in the other lane). It was a big preggie cow, weighting at least 1000kg (2200lb). The cow and its offspring were dead on site. The dynamics of the cow rolling over and over suggests to me that tipping a cow is easier than it looks.
Besides, I weight 100kg and I can push a 200kg weight around. This myth is not busted, guys.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Rather overaccurate numbers for the number of people you'd need (4.43), the calculations state things with a level of accuracy that indicates the calculator is the usual seminumerate soft scientist. I bet they quote the level of sodium they get in "half an average grapefruit" to three significant figures too.
However, the model assumes the cow is static, whilst later giving the lie to this. A single person can tip a cow (I've done it, I'm 5'7" and weigh little and had about a 50% hit rate - hey, there was little to do where I grew up). The cow _does_ react to a shove - the process is more like cow tripping than cow tipping, but they most certainly do go over.
The guys who researched this article are idiots. Anybody can tell you that it only takes two people to tip a cow: one guys sneaks up and kneels behind it before the other guy runs up and pushes it over.
Obviously her model is flawed somewhere.
--Former Wyoming Country Boy
1) Cows are tippable
2) The model is inadequate
3) Weak oversight of the model and lack of experimental data made for wrong publication
4) There's a lot of seasoned rednecks on Slashdot
5) Nobody cares about the cows, you insensitive clods!
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Beware of any scientist who determines if a cow can be tipped by developing complex models, rather than going out and trying to tip a cow.
That being said, this article is par for the course in contemporary "journalism." Very poorly written. There is no telling where the inaccuracy of the "journalist" stops and the absurdity of the claims made by the "scientist" begin. At the very least, the article itself concedes that two people may be able to tip a cow, but says the whole thing is a myth in the title. Which brings me to my second fair warning
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
You probably know the old joke with the line "First, we approximate the Cow as a sphere of radius r...". There are two parts to being a physicist - knowing the theory and knowing how to apply it. There are times when it's fine to make an approximation like that nd there are times when it's not. But if you know the theory and can't figure out how to apply it then you're as good as useless when it comes to solving real world problems.
If they start to step by raising a leg on the far side, it will make them easier to tip.
If they raise a leg on the near side and try to step away, it will make them easier to tip.
Their best (and typical) response is to raise a near leg and move it towards the tipper, broadening their base and lowering their center of gravity. That, and only that, would makle them harder to tip. But that does not mean I agree with the articles conclusions.
--MarkusQ
Even in better ground conditions you could push very hard on one side which causes the cow to lean/push back and then suddenly remove the force and watch the unfortunate creature flip itself.. just get out of the way or you will be remembered as the guy killed when a cow fell on him.
Yes life on the farm is quite dull sometimes..
You get some stupid urban kid out from the city; tell him an elaborate tale about how cows topple like dominos when "tipped", send him out to an empty pasture at night, and leave him stranded there, while you all drive back home and wait for him to clue in and walk home again. Then you laugh at him.
If you really don't like him, you send him in field with the angry bull with the sharp horns.
It's a self-reinforcing joke, and has been for decades. The fact that someone felt it was necessary to "debunk" this is as ridiculous as it is sad. City folk just don't get it, do they?
--
AC
Theory should always, where possible, be tested by experiment. Judging by my personal observations (I grew up in the country) there's a flaw in her calculations somehwere. My guess is that she has the centre of mass way too low.
"Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
Good thing there are no moose in Brasil. And I'll take your advice, and never drive a Kia Spectra if I can avoid it.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
We have done it. Anyone who lives in a rural area with lots of cow farms has either been a part of or knows people who have been Cow Tippin'. The results of this study just go to prove ONLY that it isnt easy to tip cows. For every 1 cow we actually tipped...you get about 6 or 7 that you just end up ticking off. What you need to Tip a cow: 1) 3+ fairly strong big guys..(200+lbs each) 2) Sneak into a cowfield without waking or alarming any cows. 3) Find one that is sleeping pretty soundly. 4) Get about 3 feet from it. 5) All at once, charge the cow and hit it in the neck, shoulder, and hip. This will give you a good solid surface on which to exert the most force. 6) Now run as FAST as you can and get out of the pin... you will have a really ticked off cow charging around.. hopefully it will be startled enough to not see which way you ran. 7) Watch out for cow patties...they are VERY slippery if fresh. If all went well, you have successfully defied science and tipped a cow.
...you just need one nerd.
1. The cow is not a wooden box. When pressure is applied the cow will bend or move its feet for instance which would instantly change the whole distribution of forces.
2. Who said that tipping was about statics anyway? Can this scientist evaluate the case when you use momentum?
here is a site set up so people can get kicks from tipping over cows without actually injuring or killing real cows. yay. http://www.cowguys.com/pasture.html
Cow Fu!
The entire discussion is silly. Too many scientists, not enough engineers.
If cow tipping is possible, it should be easily demonstratable. Anyone have a video?
No video, after all this time and discussion, and you can be pretty sure it's exceedingly difficult, at least. Googling shows that to be the likely case.
Don't agree? Show us the video. One video showing it proves it can be done, no matter what the scientists say.
Now we know what grad students do between their thesis defense and graduation.
Cowshit!
Sig Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
You, and the other people who claim to have commited cow tipping are a bunch of fucktarded lepers. I'm a dairy farmer, and to hear of this makes me want to come over to your house and kick your cat. I bet I could make it airbourne for 5 seconds or so, given the correct run up, and with a bit of string tied to its tail I could keep it up indefinetly. And if its pregnant, wow, it'll take it even longer to get up!
Its a constant task to maintain the health of a cow, just like the task it would be to keep you alive should I find you tipping my moo's. Fuckwit. Apologies to the others about the language but you really are detestable.
Okay, let's make some distinctions, please.
When I speak of cow tipping, I refer to the idea that one person can throw himself at an unaware (i.e. sleeping) cow and knock him down in a single thrust.
Using multiple people is not the same.
Wrestling or tripping the cow is not the same.
Binding the cow's legs is not the same.
It is essentially impossible for a human to knock a full grown cow over with his body in one shove. Period!
The truly fascinating thing is the sheer number of people who keep up the charade in order to preserve the classic prank. Most of them are probably the perpetrator or the victims.
I have a standing $100 bet with a friend of mine whether he can do it or not. He insists he's seen it done. He also insists that cows sleep standing up. But I'll expand that offer to Slashdot... anyone sends me a quality recording of a cow being tipped (by a single person in one shot, as I specified) then I'll pay them $100.
AC: Only on slashdot... could the sentence "My hovercraft is full of eels." be moderated "+4, Insightful
Make sure the cow has an udder, or make sure you can outrun it for 50 yards, and hurdle a 6 ft. fence.
My grandfather, a dairy farmer (and easily the strongest man I've ever known), was well known by family and friends for knocking down cows by punching them behind the shoulder. y grandmother always abhored the act, shouting at him not to hurt the poor cows, but whenever he was mad or playful, he'd go out and knock one of them onto their ass. Cow tipping might now be possible, but did they try punching? ^^
Its 106 miles to Chicage, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, its dark out and we're wearing sungla
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-793450966 1120386757&q=cow+tipping
We assume a spherical cow of uniform density!
To be honest, this is handy not just in maths but in many life situations.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Jock : you have 2 cows. You try to tip one and get screwed by a horn-y bull
scientist : you have 2 cows. You waste time and $$ telling people nobody (not even scientists - greek gods of the present) can tip cows.
slashdotters: you see tucows. you argue about which one is true - scientists or jocks
Surely the best defence would be to turn head-on to the tipper?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."