Slashdot Mirror
IBM And Sony Form Linux Alliance
An anonymous reader writes "CNN is reporting that IBM, Sony, and Philips are creating a Linux adoption group. Called the 'Open Invention Network', it is intended to protect vendors and customers from patent royalty fees while using OSS." From the article: "Patents owned by OIN will be available without payment of royalties to any company, institution or individual that agrees not to assert its patents against others who have signed a license with OIN, when using certain Linux-related software. Traditionally, patents have been pursued for two primary reasons -- to defend one's own intellectual property or for barter to trade in cross-licensing agreements to gain access to other companies' patents. OIN represents a new form of cross-licensing that its backers say could spur innovation. "
Now Sony can make a Linux rootkit too!
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
This certainly seems like a good idea, but am I the only one that thinks that seeing Sony in this list is rather out of character, especially given Sony's recent actions?
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
interesting... so how much is a license and are we protected against license costs in the future?
""Patents owned by OIN will be available without payment of royalties to any company, institution or individual that agrees not to assert its patents against others who have signed a license with OIN"
Will I have to boycott Linux because Sony is involved?
perception is reality
The idea of an anti-patent patent trust is as old as the hills, but to see this much corporate clout behind it was unthinkable not five years ago. It feels like there's been a sea-change and I like it. More important than helping IBM and Sony fight Microsoft, if this idea gained momentum it could seriously roll back a lot of the current technical stagnation on account of software/algorithm patents.
Color me cautiously hopeful.
--Ryv
Any drawbacks that my admittedly short sight missed? Can individuals join to avoid getting sued? Do groups need to have patents to join? I assuem they're still allowed to sue non-members, otherwise there would be no incentive for outsiders to join.
Yep. It's the next best thing to abolishing patents altogether for spurring innovation. And it's the furthest they can get in that area. Noone can abolish any laws in a democracy when there is a rich lobby that depends on them.
Just because I can imagine doing a hippopotamus, doesn't mean I'd like to do it.
I'm actually glad that Sony wanted to join this grup. If any company has interest in it, why not? The group will possibly grow even bigger... maybe companies like Microsoft? :P
I heard Philips say "Everyone's invited", so...
Sony just wants IBM's Linux knowledge to develop a better rootkit for their CDs.
First impressions, this stinks. Let's extrapolate. What happens when this 'protection club' gets a little competition? Instead of one universally broken patent system for all we then have several competing gangs all trying to form the biggest group, each further partitioning knowledge into feudal provinces. Besides which, Sony are involved. Who of sane mind is ever going to trust a company with Sonys record now? To me a big point of Linux is a the 'fuck you' to the nasty big corps. To be honest I'm quite glad the Novell SuSe thing is going south, and I don't know what IBM have to offer really. Sure it has a feelgood factor to have a heavyweight apparently onside, but at the end of the day when I saw that IBM ad with Linux portrayed as a child I couldn't help thinking of IBM as a child molester walking the kid out into the woods. At the end of the day they are only after control and profit. I hope a lot of these big companies fail in their Linux exploitation attempts and the OS continues to grow steadily on its merits as a community development.
They will provide "Root Kits" for any operating system!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Especially given how Sony so well-embraced Linux with the available Linux development toolkit for the PlayStation 2.
Does anyone know will Sony offer a Linux development toolkit for the upcoming PlayStation 3?
"Everyone's invited" is from Samsung.
IIRC the catchphrase goes like "Samsung. DigitALL. Everyone's invited"
Just nitpicking.
Anything you do can get you slashdotted, including nothing.
It's the former.
they want their rootkit under linux, ha!
Honestly, just because the patent (under what terms exactly?) is available at no cost doesn't make it good. There is a lot of reasons to dislike software patents: price is one of them but not the only one. Additionaly, what about the completely broken USPTO? the lack of research for prior art? tre triviality? What about the complexity of the patent itself? How will you know what is exactly covered? As an analogy: think Freeware vs Free Software.
Million Dollar Screenshot
Why does Sony have its own /. logo, but not Philips? Is it because all of their product recalls, or because of their DRM-crippled products?
Oops, sorry. I seem to have mis-spelled "Fuck you Sony, you rootkit spreading scum suckers". The keys are right next to each other.
It may seem to the public like they are one big entity, but in reality they are a huge company with many opinions within. This is really true of any organization. Even within our own department here there are huge disparities of attitudes. Sometimes a project will arise that only needs one programmer and they get free reign on how to do things. Invariably they will write it in their favorite language on their favorite platform. If an outside person were to see my programs they would think "wow, they really have a commitment to open source". Then later, "wow, a program in VB? This seems out of character for them".
If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
Aren't we suppose to be hating Sony now?
(Go ahead and mod redundant, just like you did the FIRST POST that made this joke)
Patents owned by OIN will be available without payment of royalties to any company, institution or individual that agrees not to assert (my emphasis) its patents against others who have signed a license with OIN, when using certain Linux-related software.
... would OIN be willing to counter-sue (backed up with its patent portfolio) say an 800 pound gorilla who find Linux violating some patents and sues linux users.
That doesn't seem to much sense so here's an example scenario:
- MSFT decides Linux kernel violates some of their patents.
- Sues some-non-commercial-linux-distro users.
So, would OIN be willing to assert its patents against MSFT?
-ankur
Platform independent rootkit.
Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?
Linux rootkits
PS3 Linux and the CELL processor, of course.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
--Sun-tzu
I think in this case Sony sees a threat from Microsoft, and wants to gang up as much as possible. For Sony, DRM and patents are largely orthogonal. DRM has to do with copyright and the enforcement mechanism is primarily the DMCA.
I think it's worth noting that if Sony had to choose between ditching DRM and protection from death by patent litigation, it would choose the former. Content, especially music, just isn't as big a business as consumer electronics.
Either way, you can still hate Sony if it suits you. It's a pretty big company, it's probably OK to like one division and hate the other.
The hive mind has spoken.
Does that mean tux can yell out: LINUX ALLIANCE ASSSSEEEEEMBLEEE and have big blue and sony fly from the sky to fight crime?
Calm down people, its a religion not an operating system.
CNN missed a few of the big players. I do think they will be willing to counter-sue since both Novell and IBM have already countersued SCO!
Considering Sony Music/BMG has been in Slashdot an awful lot lately, before we cheer or scream "DOOOOOOM", I want to know how much of Sony-BMG interacts with Sony the computer company? How much will Sony-the-Bad influence Sony-the-Good?
/. knee-jerk reaction. :)
I suspect (hope) Sony is a big enough corporation where the left hand and right hand are fairly independent of each other...
Trying to avoid the usual
IBM is does these things to get back on all of us that supported Microsoft through our hatred for IBM's tyrany. I, for one, feel more humbled each day.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
OPEN INVENTION NETWORK FORMED TO PROMOTE LINUX
AND SPUR INNOVATION GLOBALLY THROUGH ACCESS TO KEY PATENTS
- - -
Investors Include IBM, Novell, Philips, Red Hat, and Sony
New York (November 10, 2005) - Open Invention Network (OIN), a company that has and will acquire patents and offer them royalty-free to promote Linux and spur innovation globally, was launched today with financial support from IBM, Novell, Philips, Red Hat, and Sony. The company, believed to be the first of its kind, is creating a new model where patents are openly shared in a collaborative environment and used to facilitate the advancement of applications for, and components of, the Linux operating system.
"Open collaboration is critical for driving innovation, which fuels global economic growth. Impediments to collaboration on the Linux operating system seriously jeopardize innovation. A new model of intellectual property management for Linux must be established to maintain advances in software innovation - regardless of the size or type of business or organization," said Jerry Rosenthal, chief executive officer at Open Invention Network. The company will foster an open, collaborative environment that stimulates advances in Linux - helping ensure the continuation of global innovation that has benefited software vendors, customers, emerging markets and investors, among others.
Patents owned by Open Invention Network will be available on a royalty-free basis to any company, institution or individual that agrees not to assert its patents against the Linux operating system or certain Linux-related applications.
Open Invention Network believes that creating a new system to manage and ensure access to key patents for the Linux operating system will have a significant economic impact. According to International Data Corporation, the worldwide Linux businessis expected to grow 25.9 percent annually, doubling from $20 billion in 2005 to more than $40 billion in 2008.
"Open Invention Network is not focused on income or profit generation with our patents, but on using them to promote a positive, fertile ecosystem for the Linux operating system and to drive innovation and choice into the marketplace," said Mr. Rosenthal. "We intend to spur innovation in IT and across industries by helping software developers focus on what they do best - developing great Linux-related software with greater assurance about intellectual property issues."
-more-
Among Open Invention Network's initial patent holdings is a set of business-to-business electronic commerce patents that were purchased from Commerce One by JGR, a subsidiary of Novell.
For more information go to www.openinventionnetwork.com
Investor Statements
IBM
"The formation of Open Invention Network signals a growing movement where companies today are looking beyond their own organizational boundaries," said Jim Stallings, vice president of intellectual property and open standards at IBM. "They are strategically sharing their intellectual property and building broader industry partnerships in order to accelerate innovation and drive new economic growth."
Novell
"We are proud to be a founding member of the Open Invention Network,"said Jack Messman, CEO of Novell."While Novell has been a major contributor to the open source community and has shown its commitment to promoting and fostering the adoption of open source and open standards, this initiative raises our leadership to the highest level. With this new initiative, users of open source software will have access to a broad set of technologies that will help foster an even more robust community of developers, customers, business partners and investors. This is a breakthrough idea whose time has come."
Philips
"Philips is actively involved in the creation and funding of Open Invention Network because we believe that OIN will make the Linux platform more attractive for users. This will stimulate developers to focus their resources on creating
In other news, SCO and the RIAA have joined forces to form Castrate the Open Invention Network (COIN) whose sole purpose is to claim prior art on all OIN owned patents and/or prove the patents were downloaded illegally. While some have championed this new organization, skeptics say the underlying plot is revealed in the organization's acronym.
This isn't really interesting without their definition of Linux. Probably it's just the Linux kernel, otherwise they would call it Open Source. If it's just about the kernel there is hardly anything new here.
Redhat and Novell are Linux companies. They will not use patents against the linux kernel, that would hurt themselves as much as anybody else.
Sony, Philips and IBM don't care about operating system. Sure, all those companies sell operating software, but that's not there main bussiness. They make most of there money from hardware and services. An operating system is what helps them sell those. Besides, kernels are becoming a commodity. Most people wouldn't care less if it's the Linux, FreeBSD or Solaris kernel driving there desktop environment. They only see the applications.
If this alliance adhers to the definition linux=kernel they might sue over the rest of the software on your system. For example, sue KDE for copying ("stealing") a Gnome idea, thus forcing all KDE based distributions out of the market.
Was Philips just not worth mentioning in the title? Or too hard to spell correctly compared to the other two?
*DrugCheese rants*
well, maybe someday I'll be able to make atrac3 files and record them on my md-player. It's really boring that sony's interface run on win machines only. Ah, drm is another thing, or 'feature' :P
what would happen if sony (or any other company, sony just taken by example) suddenly decides it was a bad idea to begin with and leaves this organisation?
will they be able to sue all the projects that made use of sony patents or will the patents used during the period a company was member stay 'free of use'?
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
The same Sony of the Playstation 3 patent for making a game work on only ONE console.
The same Sony of the current issue of the audio CD protections.
Yeah, I feel REAL happy now...
Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
Wait a second, Sony supports Linux? A) I'm never using Linux again! B) OMFG EVARQWEST 2 4 LINX???lolol kekekekeke C) Now we'll ahve to worry about rootkits in our kernels!
A wise man once said, "wtf h4x."
So... what particular patent is IBM scared shitless of?
Who are they trying to fool into accepting this, and why?
The article isn't very clear about the mechanics of the agreement...
Can it be abused beyond the scope of open source software? Say, a hardware company uses some of OIN's patents, can IBM then use any of the hardware company's patents?
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
My netmd won't work (4 years and counting), and it's drm'd to fcsk. While I agree that drm may be viable in linux (I don't mind), I hope future models of netmd will be linux compatible. I guess it means I'll have to upgrade to a different model though (this is what you get for supporting a company early on..)
SONY: SUPPORT THIS PROJECT: http://www.minidisc.org/NetMD_faq.html
I'm sick of rebooting.
"You know you don't act like a scientist, you're more like a game show host." Dana Barret
Yes, the name is Sony, but this is an entirely different branch of Sony. Sony BMG is the one who released the rootkit-like CDs.
No, you misunderstand Sony's motives - the rootkit is showing their support for Linux!
/mods - the above was humor, and should not be taken as literal support for Sony, nor as an actual suggestion that the Sony rootkit was done in support of anything other than Sony's perceived bottom line.)
You see, the rootkit only infects Microsoft Windows, and the "DRM" only stops Microsoft Windows from playing or ripping the music - Linux is splendidly unaffected by the code, and can play (and rip) the music effortlessly.
So, what Sony is doing is giving people more reasons to NOT run Windows but instead run Linux.
So, the actions of the two groups are in harmony - they are both supporting Linux at the expense of Microsoft.
You all just don't understand the deeper strategy of Sony.
(NOTE for clueless
www.eFax.com are spammers
I've read through it but it doesn't seem too clear. If I take the guts of some Linux sub-system which is covered by this group's patents and dump it into my version of Plan9 or onto a ROM for my Super Happy Fun Robot toy and make a ga-jillion dollars off it, they won't sue me? Or they will sue me because it's not related to Linux?
If the former, then good, I guess. If the latter, then I'm not so sure it's such a good idea. If it's the latter then it would just be the Linux patent bully.
Are you...Are you some kind of genius?
No, ma'am, I'm just a regular Slashdot reader.
Will it come with a rootkit preinstalled?
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
Yeah, why not Open Invention Network Knowledge? OINK! OINK!
Is this the same Sony that's using a) DRM to promote their products for playback and b) to restrict fair use rights, while c) recommending a Linux-incompatible ripper (heck, a PC is even defined as running Windows there)?
What a strange twist of irony that they were to become a backer of... Linux
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
This brings to mind a curious question: would it make sense to include in the GPL a statement requiring that anyone who asserts software patents is not allowed to use the GPL'd software? As open source software grows into greater prominence, such a clause might make companies less inclined to assert software patents if there is a real downside to doing so.
;-))
(Why do I suspect I am going to get flamed badly for asking this question?
Send/track messages to 100K people: www.xPressAlert.com
Novell and Red Hat are also founding members of Open Invension Network. I'm not sure about Red Hat but I know that Novell has a slew of valuable patents that would help prevent lawsuits. This is really neat. As more companies become members of the network, the stronger open source will be - legally. This is worst case scenario for companies like Microsoft. For example, would Microsoft shy away from launching a patent infringement battle against red-hat? I don't think they would flinch. But would they launch the same battle against the combined patent portfolio of IBM/Sony/Phyllips/Novell/Red-Hat?
I guess they're trying to make up for what they did with the DRM. Although to be fair, it only affected Windows.
"he drew his sword Ringil that glittered like ice... and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds..."
Content sony only cares about pushing its wares but so does hardware sony. Hardware sony does not want people to not buy their hardware because it is to crippled while content sony does not want people to use their hardware to duplicate their content.
Then you got japan sony coming from a slightly different culture then the american "lets sue" sony.
But what I think is at the heart of this is the Sony that does not want to be owned by Microsoft. While the internet tv might not have happened I am sure there are people at sony that would dearly love the idea of them producing the "next pc". It is the only possibly explanation for Linux on the playstation sold by sony itself. They can't make a single cent profit on it. So why do it if not for learning wether it can be done?
Might it someday be possible to buy in the store a non-ms computer? Worse perhaps a computer that is not like today's pc's at all but far closer to say, oh a mobile phone?
MS has really screwed over every single company it has dealt with and the IBM Sony's of this world would dearly like to see a future were MS can't dictate so many terms.
It is basic economy. When your supplier controls you you are not in control. At the moment it is MS that control the PC and PC makers like sony don't like that.
So it is not out of character at all. Sony is just trying to get maximum profit. MS being toned down a bit means that sony can better dictate the terms, the terms probably being "we want more cash".
Simple really.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
...how this arrangement would protect me as a Linux home user using a non-RedHat or commercial distribution. And would these licenses and patents or what have you be free as in beer or meet the criteria for the GNU scheme? GPL? Something else?
Just Linux related software? what about the rest of the open Source software?
They don't care a bit about the community or open source, they are just centering their efforts in can give them profits.
ditching DRM and protection from death by patent litigation
Sorry, that should read:
ditching DRM and death by patent litigation
Or maybe even:
Sony is more intereseted in protection from patent lawsuits than DRM
You have utterly missed the point. Like so many people, you have bought into the notion that a corporation is a person, a single entity of one mind which decides on every action it takes.
It's not. Despite any legal status, corporations are made up of many groups; in Sony's case, many different companies! It's utterly silly to say "I'm not buying a PS3 from SCEA because Sony BGM did something really stupid". It's akin to having nothing to do with someone because their brother did something you don't like.
Now, don't get me wrong, Sony isn't exactly the innocent type. Even if they are separate divisions, each one will still look out for its own best interest. But the notion that a corporation is a single mind is wrong in form; I'm suprised so many people here seem to hold onto the idea.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
No one has seen the big picture here. Sony and Philips own a lot of media patents including rights to the CD format and (posibley) DVD formats as well. Not to mention the next gen HD DVD specs. If they wanted to they could easily grant a licence for a good chunck of multimedia code on linux. This could solve one of the bigest hurdles facing linux at this time, crippled multimedia software.
David
'Open Invention Network Knights' has a better ring to it...
They really missed a golden opportunity for the Best. Acronym. Evar.
"having nothing to do with someone because their brother did something you don't like" sounds like a recipe for a long term feud if the people are popular enough.
After a few centuries, the people "having nothing to do with someone" are long dead but the feud remains. I know that the French are still around but for the life of me I can't figure out why. And I'm originally a Quebecois, a French speaker.
Human memory runs broad, not deep. That's why I don't trust it. Its too easy to forget exactly why anything.
That's why there are all those statutes and jurisprudence and "the rule of law." This can only work if the laws are written down (not carved on your back at the whim of some blood thirsty uber-lord and his sons [for some reasons its always sons. The girls in the family really take it in the shorts.)
This is another reason a distrust anything written by Microsoft. NONE of the documents originally produced my M$ Word 1.0 are still legible. But the ones I wrote in WordPerfect can still be opened and can be read in WordPerfect. (Ahhh the advantages of a persistent [and maybe open] document file format.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
besides, we're not gonna see any money anyway. All the money will go to Mono (which is the product that ensures the portability of .NET to other architectures), and good real free projects like perl, python, X windows, gcc will get nil.
VCs joining open source? More like the carrot to keep you going!
worth bugging a judge about.
That was the worst waste of $699 I can imagine.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I've said it before, but it bears repeating. The serious problem that Free Software/Open Source faces isn't that MS or anyone else will destroy Linux or Apache or whatever with patent litigation. The strength of the vested interests behind the big, successful projects means that's unlikely to happen. The serious problem is that people will be forced or scared away from starting or participating in projects that aren't household names and don't have powerful sugar daddies. No new small projects largely means no future big ones; and a large part of the value of FOSS is in the thousands of niche tools that will never appear on the front page of Fortune but do help their users greatly.
In the realistic nightmare scenario, by 2015 development continues on Linux and some other big projects almost as an extension of the international standards bureaucracy, controlled by (mostly) big institutions and their paid programmers. But the freedom to just write some code, put it online and start a mailing list without needing approval, support or funding from anyone is gone.
The first thing we can do to try to prevent this is to ask loud and clear whenever announcements like this are made: why only "certain Linux-related software"? Why won't you protect FOSS in general?
Form of A Supoena!
Shape of A Root Kit!
sorry, I tried...
No, I don't trust in god. He'll have to pay up front, like everybody else.
Check this :
l ?articleID=173601640
.. uhh... Microsoft is in on this too, eh? Or is this article just completely wrong?
http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtm
So
XenoPhage
Technological Musings
Would you accept that the US of A is a plutocratic/democratic republic?
I'd say that's a fair assessment--Americans form governments through elections (democratic process) that are heavilly influenced by money--especially coporate money (a plutocracy). The only real way to restrict the (usually corruptive) influence of wealth in government is through an informed, involved electorate. Unfortunately the American electorate is neither.
Not so sure about Canada, which is also in America.
As a Canadian I can tell you that the same is very true here, though in slightly different ways. In the US, those critical of the government point to the heavy influence the oil industry has in Washington. In Canada, that influence is provided by the information/entertainment industry. Besides having the govenrment-owned CBC network, the two major privately-owned canadian networks/media conglomerates (Bell-Sympatico-CTV and Global) are owned and run by very major supporters of the governing Liberal party (financially and through direct political involvement). I've found that despite being government owned and obviously socialist editorially that the CBC is probably a bit more critical/objective in its stories about the government even though the government owns it.
In Quebec in particular, most advertising agencies providing services to the government have been major donors to the Liberal party and have provided staff--on paid company time--to "volunteer" for Liberal campaigns. This behaviour goes quite a bit beyond even the deplorable bid-selection behaviour of the previous Mulroney government. If the uninformed have any doubts about the influence that the media and (dirty) money have on Canadian politics, take some time to look at the Gomery Inquiry report. Lobby money certainly does run Canada and the Canadian electorate is even less involved than their American counterparts.
As far as this new patent initiative by these major corporations, it is merely fortunate that they are acting in the best interests of consumers and innovation. We need a "movement" involved in patents equivalent to what GNU provides for copyright. Given the higher barrier to entry in the patent system it was much less likely to happen based on the efforts of a few dedicated individuals, and given the nature of our governments, even less likely that they would spearhead such an initiative.
I bet they have irredeamably lost some windows customers and are trying to fill that gap by winning over some Linux users... makes perfect sense.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
OINk -- because software patents are a pig.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
In the eyes of the law, a corporation is a single entity. I guess that people (myself included) also tend to think of it as a single entity. Maybe I should think of it as having "multiple personality disorder."
Think of it as a tribe - composed of a number of related individuals with different (though often similar) moral codes and behavior.
Or think of it as a school - with different sports teams under different coaches and different service clubs, where one team might be rife with bullying and steroid use and another squeaky clean, and one club might do environmental cleanups while another holds beer bashes around bonfires that occasionally get away into the woods.
Or think of it as a country - with different branches of its military, different political parties, different corporations (going fractal here - which IS appropriate since a large corporation is itself fractal and a conglomerate moreso), different religions, and so on.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Is there a list of patents that are available and a list of what the certain Linux-related software is? Where is the website with all the details.
But will we see DVD players come bundled with the OS instead of having to compile your own?
MadOgre.com
I propose that the alliance rename their acronym to a much more catchy one like
OINK!
It seems to me that what these companies are saying is "Patents stifle innovation, so we're signing them away for practically nothing so that the world may get back to being creative again".
This is likely to be invaluable ammunition once patent legislation comes back under scrutiny in the US, and the next time the software patent mafia makes a serious move in the EU.
sigs are hazardous to your health
This initiative is a really bad thing for the free software community as it is going to make people pay less attention to the threat posed by patents. For example, any lobbying against software patents in EU will now have to face the argument "But there is alleady in place an initiative to protect Linux, so what do you want from us?"
There is a new campaign necessery:
"FREE SOFTWARE is NOT about Linux, it is about YOU to be FREE to CREATE"
Got $sys$root?