CSI Takes On Grand Theft Auto

Tycoon Guy was one of many to write "Looks like another 20 million viewers will be fed the 'video games promote violence' story tonight. Today's CSI: Miami episode will feature a group of kids who are inspired to go on a city-wide crime spree by a game that looks suspiciously like Grand Theft Auto. From the description: 'Delko witnesses a bank robbery and the CSIs soon discover that the culprits are playing out the action from the videogame 'Urban Hellraisers' on the streets of Miami. As they score points for each crime committed, the CSIs must discover what consists of getting to the next level in the game in order to stop the culprits before they strike again.'"

Comments

Eh... so what?

[XorNand]

I don't think that the debate isn't so much about whether video games inspire people to go on crime sprees (which is only the aspect that the CSI episode seems to address). Most of us agree that they can. Just like a violent movie, booze, extremely stressful situtation, etc. can push a person already with a few screws loose over the edge. The question is: Do video games make killers? And if so (and that's a big if) where does the line between social conditioning and personal responsiblity lay?

Anyhow, I wouldn't be in such a hurry to throw up your arms over this show. Knowing CSI, I doubt that they're going to devote much airtime into exploring the social and moral issues surrounding the debate. The focus of the show isn't the same as Law & Order, which is a bit more far reaching.

Re:Eh... so what?

[NoodleSlayer]

I think most of us will agree that video games are no more likely to inspire kids to go on a killing spree any more then violent TV Shows and Movies or an episode of "Barney & Friends."

However unlike the aforementioned Video Games have been noted in studies for reducing the subject's likelihood of displaying violent behavior, because the game serves as a release mechanism.

All this is is scapegoatism led by asshats like Jack Thompson.

Re:Eh... so what?

[MoonBuggy]

Knowing CSI, I doubt that they're going to devote much airtime into exploring the social and moral issues surrounding the debate.

There lies the problem, IMO. The average viewer only sees "games = killing spree", they don't get any exposure to the rest of the argument, and the rest of the media reinforces this.

I guess it's not really a big thing, but it still does seem to outline the mass-media view on the issue, that is likely to be taken in by many people.

Re:Eh... so what?

[dsginter]

Knowing CSI, I doubt that they're going to devote much airtime into exploring the social and moral issues surrounding the debate.

Knowing CSI, I think that they'll devote more time exploring the intricacies involved in the "reverse algorithmic" required to make that 320x200 security camera zoom in 3000x with perfect clarity.

If nothing else, CSI is good for scaring criminals into thinking that this kind of technology actually exists.

Re:Eh... so what?

[SatanicPuppy]

I don't know about you, but "Barney and Friends" is MUCH more likely to send me on a killing spreee than your average violent video game.

Re:Eh... so what?

[HunterZ]

Yes, Law & Order did an episode on video game violence last year as well. Who cares? Does anyone really get their political beliefs from TV shows?

I'm guessing you're not an American.

(My Fellow Americans: I am American, BTW, so don't get bent out of shape)

Re:Eh... so what?

[DurendalMac]

Yeah, I think viewers will start laughing when Jack Thompson shows up in soft focus with a sort of glow and informs the CSI group that violent video games make kids into violent killers. Then he dons his armor and runs out to find the kids and take them down himself. The show ends with Thompson embarking on a quest to take down the video game industry by himself. The show will be banned due to uncontrollable laughter of Monty Python's deadly joke proportions.

Re:Eh... so what?

[TheRaven64]

I'm not sure about practically, but theoretically it is possible to refine the data from a security camera significantly. You have two main advantages:

1. You have multiple frames to work with. You can do inter-frame interpolation to pull more information out of stills. Ever wondered why a lower resolution is acceptable for moving pictures than stills? It's because your brain does this.
2. You know what people, cars, etc look like. If you have n images that could have been degraded to look like a pixelated face, you can discard the m that don't look like a face at all. The n-m is then a much smaller search space, and you can make guesses within this.

This is a fairly active research area - I've seen papers about it, but never bothered to read much past the abstract.

Re:Eh... so what?

[paranode]

My Fellow Americans: I am American

God Bless you and the freedom you stand for!

Re:Eh... so what?

[deacon]

Things are much worse than that.

Some people actually believe the "News" that is on TV.

Re:Eh... so what?

[jmp_nyc]

It's good that we've got so many morally upright people in this country to make sure that people understand that modern secularized entertainment is solely responsible for the proliferation of violence in our society. After all, there would be no violence or crime if people only read the Bible like God intended.

Of course, most of these people haven't read the Bible sufficiently closely to notice that it's chock full of sex and violence, much of it downright gratuitous.
-JMP

Re:Eh... so what?

[_Sprocket_]

"Dude - you gotta check out this Barny mod for Doom!"
"OK - let me fire it up. Huh... cool. Barnys to kill left and right. Heh. I like using the shotgun."

(...boom...boom...sploitch...)

"Dadddy..."
"Oh... hi Kiddo. What'cha want?"
"Daddy... is that Barny...?"
"..."

Re:Eh... so what?

[p0rnking]

If TV (and other media) doesn't inspire some people to commit crime, then explain this http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,975 769,00.html.

"Four years ago, Bhutan, the fabled Himalayan Shangri-la, became the last nation on earth to introduce television. Suddenly a culture, barely changed in centuries, was bombarded by 46 cable channels. And all too soon came Bhutan's first crime wave - murder, fraud, drug offences."

Re:Eh... so what?

[acwebguy]

I disagree, when ever I watch "Barney & Friends", I get urges for murder and heinous crimes, especially to anything pink or resembles a dinosaur.

Re:Eh... so what?

[dogmatixpsych]

because the game serves as a release mechanism

There is no research evidence that violent movies or violent video games are cathartic. I'm not saying that violent games cause violent behaviors, but there sure isn't any evidence that they decrease violent behavior (which is exactly what you were suggesting, even if you didn't mean to). There is a lot of evidence that children who view agressive or violent behavior (live or in TV shows) are in turn more likely to be more aggressive or violent (e.g., the famous and classic Bobo doll experiment by Albert Bandura). Sure, some of these findings are still controversial but Bandura's experiment has been replicated enough to show that there is a pretty good correlation between viewing violence and acting violent. If you're wondering about causation (maybe more violent [or aggressive] children choose to watch more violent things, which is true), the kids in Bandura's experiment were randomly assigned to either watch adults violently attack a big plastic doll (those ones that are kind-of like punching bags with sand in their base) or not. Kids didn't have a choice to view the violent behavior or not and the ones who did committed more acts of violence towards the doll than kids who didn't see the adults be violent did.

Bandura's experiment was more about kids imitating adults than violence, per se, but kids are impressionable and will copy what adults do. There are many reasons why some kids are violent and some go on big killing sprees; I believe a lot of problems stem from parental problems (not that you can specifically blame the parents) but violent video games and movies are definitely a factor. But that really isn't the issue; the issue is how much of an influence do violent shows and games have? A little, but it is significant. Some people may find violent TV shows and games to be cathartic, but there is good research evidence that violent shows and games will increase acts of aggressiveness in many more people than it will decrease aggressive behavior in.

Re:Eh... so what?

[ThosLives]

The culture already had to change to accept television, so I would say that television is orthogonal to the crime, not the cause. There might be crime that shows up because of TV (you can't steal TV's without TV, for instance), but that's not helpful for this discussion.

After all, was crime nonexistant before faster-than-foot communications?

Re:Eh... so what?

[timeOday]

I think most of us will agree that video games are no more likely to inspire kids to go on a killing spree any more then violent TV Shows and Movies or an episode of "Barney & Friends."

So what's the problem? If people aren't inspired by fiction (as you state), then anything CSI says about videogames will be taken as fiction by its viewers and have no influence on public policy. Right?

Now, you could argue some viewers won't distinguish CSI from reality, but then you'd have to admit the possibility of the same for GTA.

Re:Eh... so what?

[Deathlizard]

The question is: Do video games make killers? And if so (and that's a big if) where does the line between social conditioning and personal responsibility lay?

I remember back in the 80's the movie industry had to basically kill off the "Nightmare on Elm Street" movie series because people were screaming "Freddie makes killers because he makes killing people too much fun!". I've yet to see anyone even remotely emulate Freddy in any way, or Jason, Mike Myers, ETC for that matter.

If it's true that people are emulating games to kill, where's all these killers at? If there were more copycat crimes out there and the game is basically brainwashing children to kill, with the install base GTA has we would be hearing about them all day and night in the news like a epidemic, yet it seems the only one that ever brings them up is Jack Thompson, and he's been bringing up the same few for years now.

The way most of these games are made, any crime on the street could be attributed to them. All you have to do is shoot one guy in the street, put on your "GTA made me do it" Shirt and watch Rockstar take the heat rather than frying the guy responsible for the murder because he's "just an innocent victim of the rockstar killing frenzy known as GTA" even though he may have never touched the game once in his life.

Seriously, What ever happened to Blaming the person responsible for the crime rather than what influenced him? Why must we analyze anything that they were exposed to in order to find out why they did it instead of just saying He did it, end of story.

Re:Eh... so what?

[Krach42]

Well, the same thing is happening with second hand smoke, and happened with recycling.

Now, everyone is convinced that recycling is the best thing we can do (even though many recycling methods waste more energy than they save. Recycling rarely saves energy, it saves simply landfill space. Though metals are easily recyclable, which is why they PAY you for it... when they start paying you to collect paper, plastics and glass, I'll jump on the recycling bandwagon...)

And worse, everyone is starting to blindly believe that second hand smoke causes a significant increase in cancer. (Which it hasn't been proven to do; the one source we had that gave such a strong opinion was thrown out by a federal court because they used evidentiary selection, and the other source that hasn't been thrown out presents a weak argument: showing 0 (zero) correlation between childhood exposure and lung cancer, and a statistically insignificant increase for adults. From 10 in a million, to 12.5 in a million... Let's all run out, stamp out those cigarettes and save those 744 people a year!!! You know, I'm certain more people die from poking themselves in the eye than this... And last I remember, my statistic on this was actually HIGHER than it actually really is... damn that fuzzy memory)

The media often presents oneside of the argument, and gets people so believing it (mostly because the media fall into the same feedback loop, and believe it themselves) that it causes a serious danger. We essentially waste approximately $8 billion a year on recycling, countless useless hours dictating to people that they can't smoke in public, because we don't like it, and now, we're spending small fortunes to propagandize the nation into believing that violent video games train our children to kill...

Awesome... thanks...

Re:Eh... so what?

[Idarubicin]

If TV (and other media) doesn't inspire some people to commit crime, then explain this...

Well, if we grant the assumption for the moment that it was exposure to television that caused the crime wave, would you care to comment on what aspect of television was responsible? Was it cable news that caused a crime wave? Was it exposure to Barney? Was it the introduction of televangelists? Was it violent entertainment? Was it horror movies? Was it McDonald's commercials?

Or did it have nothing to do with the television itself? Was it the influx of foreign cable company employees?

Was it the major cultural shift that drove Bhutan to permit television in the first place? Was televion the only new thing to happen in Bhutan?

Also, how can we reconcile the article's statement "...a culture, barely changed in centuries..." with "there were no public hospitals or schools until the 1950s, and no paper currency, roads or electricity until several years after that. Bhutan had no diplomatic relations with any other country until 1961, and the first invited western visitors came only in 1974"?

Re:Eh... so what?

[yerM)M]

Correlation is not causation.

Example:

Ice cream sales and shark attacks both increase during summer. I.e. Ice cream causes shark attacks.

In summary, correlation is easy, causation is hard.

Re:Eh... so what?

[macthulhu]

I work in video production, and I've actually assisted the cops in trying to get usable information off of security tapes. Even DV at 720x486 is pretty worthless when you blow it up. If the information isn't there, the information isn't there. I like CSI and its ilk, but that always drives me crazy... The same way Hackers drives all of you CS guys crazy. There's some "enhancement" that you can do, but you are limited by the number of pixels in the original.

Re:Eh... so what?

[rpdillon]

Well, you touch on the heart of the debate and treat as though the resolution were a fait accompli. Here is another section of the article:

Every week, the letters page carries columns of worried correspondence: "Dear Editor, TV is very bad for our country... it controls our minds... and makes [us] crazy. The enemy is right here with us in our own living room. People behave like the actors, and are now anxious, greedy and discontent."

This is in direct contradiction of one of my beliefs, and even some beliefs that are taught to even the youngest members of our society: personal responsiblity. The TV didn't make these people do anything, they did it of their own volition. The lesson we teach our children is to think on their own: "If little Johnny jumped off the bridge, would you jump off too?" We reinforce this mantra time after time in various ways: your decisions are your own; don't blindly follow what you see others doing.

And yet, I find we continually want to blame some outside source for the stupid things we do. This is simply a new form of the fundamental attribution error, except it is on a much larger scale.

What this really all leads to is two camps. There are those who believe that we can prevent crime by isolating people from the evils of the world (as seen in this article; I like to call it the "Garden of Eden syndrome"). Once the idea has been put in someone's mind, it then requires an internal filtering process to occur: is the behavior I saw others engage in in appropriate for me? But if the idea never reaches you, then you don't have to filter anything yourself....you can simply rely on someone "greater" to decide what you should see.

I don't hold to that. I believe this comes down to freedom and choice. I should be free to see and read all kinds of ideas. With that freedom comes the responsibility to filter appropriately and determine how to act. If others wish to blame their poor behavior on those around them, the TV shows they watched or the games they played, they are free to do that. But, in the end, their behavior was the result of their choices, and it is better to stand up and take responsibility for your own actions than to push that responsiblity off on someone who doesn't even know you exist (the maker of the game, the creator of the TV show, etc.)

That is my philsophical take on your post. From a logical perspective, you (and the article) are making the fundamental logical mistake of post hoc ergo propter hoc: just because the crime occurred after TV was made available does not mean the crime was caused by the TV's appearance. I think the post above mine treats this topic better than I can, though I thought I would point it out as an aside to my main point.

Re:Eh... so what?

[KarmaMB84]

My god, no. The problem is that people are so used to seeing things that they think CSI investigators (supposedly) really do In Real Life(tm). CSI bombards people with science "facts" all the way through the show. People will see them investigating videogame induced crime sprees and murders and they'll assume that such a thing must be backed up with fact just like other things on the show. When CSI causes juries to stop accepting evidence that isn't a forensic smoking gun, it's hard to tell what it can do to the typical couch potato voter who will gladly vote for the next guy that wants to ban video games cause CSI says they cause crime.

Re:Eh... so what?

[yali]

Fortunately, there is more evidence than Bhutan. Like this nice review of hundreds of controlled experiments and long-term outcome studies.

As a sidenote (not direct response to parent poster), I find it kind of amusing that people (a) gripe about there not being any controlled experiments, when in fact there are plenty, and then (b) ask for the ultimate uncontrolled nonexperimental test by saying "well why don't we see hundreds of GTA killers in the streets?" when they're presented with the controlled studies that they insisted, in the first place, were the only acceptible evidence.

Oh, and just because research supports a causal relationship between consuming violent media and behaving aggressively, that does not mean that ergo we must limit access to violent media, especially with adults. After all, we don't limit most forms of speech (short of direct incitement). It's just that you need to frame your defense in terms of the First Amendment, not by ignoring available evidence.

Re:Eh... so what?

[yerM)M]

Good one, but the clincher is:

Ice cream sales and shark attacks cause summer.

Re:Eh... so what?

[Krach42]

The purpose of recycling is not having to rip more material out of the ground in a destructive process just to make another Coke or Pepsi can. We recycle the old cans.

I already said in my post, when companies start paying you for it, that I'll agree with it. THEY ALREADY DO THAT FOR COKE AND PEPSI CANS. What does not make sense, is paper recycling, and plastic recycling.

Paper recycling: We cut down trees planted, and grown specifically for paper. Saying that you're saving trees by using less paper, is like saying you're saving potatoes by eating less french fries.

Plastic recycling: We waste more time and energy making stuff out of recycled plastic, than we do just making new plastic. And we're not running out of landfill space (as you already seem to agree.) So, if it's not doing us any good, because we're wasting energy to reduce our plastic waste, which we don't need to reduce anyways, then what good is it?

Smoking in public is obnoxious.

So is singing happy birthday in restaraunts, so it talking during a movie, so is having one's cell phone ring during a movie. This doesn't mean it should be illegal.

If it is causing any kind of lung damage (not even cancer) in non-smokers, then it should not be allowed in public.

Cancer is the best thing cigarettes having for them for causing disease in non-smokers, and it's a fraud.

Even if I never get cancer from a smoker, I also don't want to be breathing in even a cut down version of the stuff that is rotting their lungs out to clog mine as well.

Look, you are exposed to much more in your life that is dangerous and potentially harmfull. Wait, let me guess, you're one of those hypochondriacs that puts the little toilet tissues on the seat before you sit down, right? And you use anti-bacterial soap on everything. There's such a thing as statistically insignificant risk, and that's what second hand smoke is to you.

You said it before; you think smoking in public is obnoxious. That's fine, you don't have to qualify that and say that it's hurting you, because there has never been a study that has proven any link to second hand smoke and ANY disease.

"Secondhand tobacco smoke contains over 4,000 chemical compounds. More than 60 of these are known or suspected to cause cancer."

I already told you that the only reasonably valid study out there found no statistically significant risk of cancer from secondhand tobacco smoke. Hell, *WE* contain over 4,000 chemical compounds... so does beef, so does chicken, so do FRUITS AND VEGETABLES.

Sacchrin was shown to cause cancer in lab mice, but yet Sweet-and-Low still sells it in their sweetening packets. But it has never been shown to cause a significant risk of cancer in humans. So, it's not dangerous.

I find it hard to believe you think people should be able to spew that stuff into the air for all to breath...

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that you're not being exposed to worse without tobacco smoke.

I'm not saying smoking is good, or anything like that, but there is no evidence that it does any harm to the people around the smoker.

I thought this was the land of the free, where you need evidence to condemn someone... oh wait, no you just need a flashy media campaign to drive your point. and hey! guess what, all those ex-smokers don't want to see people smoking, because it reminds them of smoking and makes it harder on them (a good reason), and people who have never smoked hate tabacco smoke, so over all, it's really easy to win people over, by just telling them that there are cancerous agents in it, and OOOoooOOO! The boogieman's gonna get you!

How hard is it really to convince people that already don't like something that it's bad for them? You don't even need real evidence, this whole second hand smoke thing PROVES that. Because the only evidence out there is that there is no significant risk from secondhand smoke.

Do I want smokers all around me? N

Re:Eh... so what?

[Vengeance_au]

I bow down to your superior logic :-)

Now, how about some ice cream?

Re:Eh... so what?

[GMontag451]

This new learning amazes me! Tell me again how sheep's bladders can be employed to prevent earthquakes.

Running out of ideas?

[El_Muerte_TDS]

Will it include a Jack Thompson kind of lawer?

In other news

[dada21]

C-SPAN2 today will air an episode of Head of the Class 2005 where the students form a representative government that really is more interested in padding their pockets than in protecting their constituents.

We have to accept that the media has nothing to report on. They HAVE to report on games that may entice teenagers to murder, and the fiction media has to make it fact.

It isn't like Sharon quit the Likud or gold hit a 18 year high or GM is cutting 30,000 union jobs that it should have cut 20 years ago or even that Intel and Micron are colluding on flash memory. I know there's no real news out there for fiction-media to mimic.

The lady watches a lot of Law & Order (SVU primarily) and whenever I'm on the couch watching the show, all I can think of is "criminals are stupid" and "these cops are walkin all over people's rights." Then I realize it isn't reality -- but I do believe that a majority of viewers THINK this is real life. It isn't anywhere near what happens in the situations presented.

Wasn't it the Miami ADA who complains about how they have problems with getting guilty verdicts because juries expect DNA and other CSI-style evidence? Is this CSI pandering to the local legal authorities in pushing what may be a big issue for them?

I, for one, welcome our new "this is reality and you better accept it" overlords. The positive thing about shows like this is that it only helps in destroying the media regimes that exist today.

BTW, the advertisement to the right of this article is a GTA:LS for the PSP ad. Funny.

They have all the right.

[Spy der Mann]

if GTA only imitates "reality" in their violence, and there HAVE been cases of copycat murders imitating GTA, is there any problem with a TV show imitating the reality of GTA-inspired copycat murders?

Because gamers censoring CSI is in no way different from lawyers censoring GTA.

Re:They have all the right.

[sedyn]

"Because gamers censoring CSI is in no way different from lawyers censoring GTA."

Thats actually a really good point.

But we all know not to take television seriously, I mean, a writer would claim that you could hack 1024-bit encrypted RSA in 10 seconds to make sure the plot kept going.

The news makes it sound like "hackers" are at fault for all the ills of the computing world, when really most are just script kiddies exploiting cheap flaws in badly written software.

I've also heard that medical doctors and lawyers can't watch shows about their professions, and if watching the media's opinion of IT is any indication, I'd be inclined to believe it.

Re:They have all the right.

[ArsonSmith]

Umm, if you think there is no diffrence between gamers bitching about CSI and Lawyers seuing and getting legislation made against GTA, you myfriend have a very distorted view of the world.

Re:They have all the right.

[Flaming Babies]

GTA does not imitate reality, or anywhere near it. You can't go on a shooting spree in downtown LA, drive a few blocks, and then hop out of your car as if nothing happened.

Of course you can't. You have to drive through the appropriate number of police bribe badges first.

damn this pisses me off!

[illtron]

Every time I read something like this, it makes me want to carjack someone's Infernus, back up over them with it, then go on a huge hooker shooting spree.

Re:damn this pisses me off!

[IANAAC]

and then enjoy a nice cup of coffee.

Re:damn this pisses me off!

[illtron]

only the hottest coffee will do!

Not that surprising...

[IAmTheDave]

Shows often hop on a hot-topic issue to prompt more viewership. This move is relatively unsurprising. What will be interesting to see is if the game is actually blamed, or the show exhonorates (sp?) the game, dismissing what the kids emulate and acknowledging that personal responsibility is capable of dettering anyone from a mass murder spree, GTA be damned.

(Sorry for the poor spelling.)

Re:Not that surprising...

[ArsSineArtificio]

the show exhonorates (sp?) the game

It's actually 'exonerates'. The word is derived not from the root "honor", but rather from "onus/onera", the Latin word for "burden". So to 'exonerate' is to 'remove the burden' from someone.

Hollywood Vendetta

[Doc Ruby]

Hollywood has decided that games are a threat to their business, not just the next wholly owned subsidiary. They see that they can't control the game medium with their distribution monopolies and promotional control, so they're attacking it. They thought they could make a fortune off game music, but failed to change their bizmodel to pull that off. So now they see gamers and "pirates" as their enemy. Which consensus will now appear in Hollywood products generally. How long before the Internet itself becomes the target, beyond just P2P filesharing?

Re:Hollywood Vendetta

[grungebox]

This seriously is one of the most inane comments I've read on Slashdot in a long time, and the only reason it's modded so high is that vitriol speaks louder than rationality. I mean, your contention is that Hollywood wants to destroy the game industry because it is a "threat to their business"? Is that why the number of movie tie-in licenses is on the rise in the game industry (a recent Wired article talked about this)? Is that why Warner Bros has started forcing game publishers to meet certain quality standards on their movie tie-in games, because WB really wants to fuck up the game industry?

Please.

Hollywood isn't stupid. That's why these licenses exist. It's another source of revenue right now due to licensing agreements, especially for the blockbuster films that make so much money for Hollywood anyways. In fact, I can't remember the last "blockbuster movie" that DIDN'T have a movie tie-in. What, you think EA unilaterally makes the game without the movie studios' permission? Your only "proof" of this is that Hollywood failed at the gaming music business. I'm not sure what you mean since:
a) Music and its associated licenses are the RIAA's domain, not the MPAA.
b) Game music is a small industry. And by small I mean infinitesimal.
c) Hollywood composers who compose for games are not owned by any Hollywood studio. This isn't 40's Hollywood. They're approached individually. That's why composers can also work for competing studios on different films.

You mentioned they "see games and 'pirates as their enemy." That statement makes two very different claims. Pirates are an enemy to any industry, even gaming. They take material and illegitimately reproduce it. It's not like the gaming industry hasn't used questionable tactics before (like StarForce). So, sure, Hollywood is probably attacking P2P in very illegitimate and unjustified ways. No one is going to argue that the MPAA is not idiotic, but making the claim that Hollywood is out to "get" the gaming industry is inaccurate, and more importantly, irrational.

And now...

[daranz]

Somebody needs to go start killing people, and say that he was inspired by gruesome scenes in CSI. Right back at them.

Re:And now...

[theblueprint]

or inspired by the CSI videogame?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6884 204&type=product&id=1095432669123/

Discovering the secrets of the game?

[ArsSineArtificio]

As they score points for each crime committed, the CSIs must discover what consists of getting to the next level in the game in order to stop the culprits before they strike again.'"

Couldn't the CSIs just check the walkthrough?

This isn't a problem

[grasshoppa]

As long as they portray it as bad parenting and idiotic kids acting out bits from a video game. Or a book. Or a movie.

It's not that video games don't inspire mentally unstable people to do stupid things. That's a given. Mentally unstable people could find inspirations for their actions from a box of rice crispies.

It's how you portray it.

Re:This isn't a problem

[garcia]

As long as they portray it as bad parenting and idiotic kids acting out bits from a video game. Or a book. Or a movie. It's how you portray it.

Well sadly, TV episodes based on activities that happen elsewhere in *reality*, aren't always true to the way it really happens and even go so far as to completely misrepresent the way things are. Take for instance the recent episode of Law and Order: Criminal Intent (5/8/05) that included a bit on geocaching that misrepresented it as cache containers being buried and requiring a shovel to retrieve.

geocaching.com (the largest of the cache listing services) had to post something about it on the main page because of all the parks districts that might become offended if they believed that cachers were out in the woods with shovels:

Geocaching was featured on Law & Order: Criminal Intent this evening, May 8. Contrary to the creative license taken by the show's writers, we strictly do not list caches that are buried.

The TV shows will take whatever liberties they can to make it sell well, regardless of the possibile outcomes for those that actually partake in the *real world* activities.

That Sounds Great!

[jenkin sear]

That sounds like a great episode.

In fact, I'm going to create a video game where you are a forensic pathologist, and you have to travel around a city trying to track down a gang of teenagers who are acting out scenes inspired by the latest episode of CSI... you must figure out what the crazy wrapup / plot twist will be in order to stop them. I bet the video game would be a hell of a lot more interesting than their show- and probably about equally gory.

What?

[vjmurphy]

A popular television series is using a plotline based upon bad information to enhance its ratings during sweeps month? Tell me it isn't true. Next thing you know, they won't be throwing their main characters into bikinis and making them kiss!

Must-watch garbage.

[TripMaster Monkey]

As they score points for each crime committed, the CSIs must discover what consists of getting to the next level in the game in order to stop the culprits before they strike again.

Simple...just put a big sign over a warehouse that says 'Pay-n-Spray', fill the warehouse with cops, and wait. ^_^

Seriously, though, I will be watching this episode tonight, even though I usually avoid CSI: Miami like the plague (I would rather perform an appendectomy on myself with a rusty grapefruit spoon than sit through David Caruso gibbering and capering onscreen for an hour). After all, we have to be familiar withh the propaganda if we're going to fight it effectively, no?

This would never happen because...

[technopinion]

Anyone stupid enough to need a videogame to tell them how to commit crimes is stupid enough to get caught pretty quickly.

Pot calling the kettle black

[Billosaur]

CSI:Miami, a TV-show with violent content, is going to go up against violent content in the video game industry? What do you kow? The vultures are beginning to eat each other! Of course violent games and TV don't make people into killers! Now excuse me as I go strap on my StormTrooper armor, grab my handy blaster, and lay waste to some people at the supermarket...

Re:Pot calling the kettle black

[ergo98]

CSI:Miami, a TV-show with violent content, is going to go up against violent content in the video game industry?

Um, not - they just want viewers. In the grand scheme of "follow the buck", they aren't trying to make the world a better place or to make some profound social commentary: They're just doing whatever gets the viewers so they can please their advertisers. You know - Just like GTA is just trying to sell games, and they aren't actually trying to get you to kill cops and hookers.

The burning question must be asked..

[Anonymous Meoward]

Will the episode be sponsored by a producer of hot coffee?

Will they continue to be Politically Correct?

[SengirV]

I've never seen so many white gang members in my life as there are in the CSI universe. Are tehy afraid of offending anyone? EVER?

Re:Will they continue to be Politically Correct?

[birder]

I saw my first black murder suspect on CSI the other night. Don't worry, he was framed by a white guy.

Re:Will they continue to be Politically Correct?

[minus_273]

I got two words for you, Al Sharpton. You dont even have to be a rapist for him to accuse you of being one. All you have to be is white.

Oh, that exlains the RIAA

[Abuzar]

...they've been watching too much CSI.

Provoking you to watch

[ewg]

Angry viewers count just as much in the ratings as any other kind of viewers. If stirring this pot motivates you to watch, it's money in the producers' pockets.

I just hope...

[ZeonMan0079]

they make the game's graphics look as advanced as their crime "analysis" software, 3d effects and all.

Of course, silly me, this is one of them "videogames", so it must look like old PSX and sound like an Atari2600.

I can't speak for anyone else, but . . .

[div_2n]

After I played GTA (can't remember which one) at a friend's house for a couple of hours, I found myself thinking about ramming into other vehicles and stealing their cars. I'm really not joking. Of course, I also once pointed at a cop checking for speeders during my Quake years and yelling audibly, "Look at that camper!!!" Again, I'm really not joking.

While I neither rammed other people's cars nor pulled out a rocket launcher to teach the cop a lesson, I certainly KNOW that games can bleed into reality and if the person is just messed up enough in the head already, I don't doubt they could live out the game.

Re:I can't speak for anyone else, but . . .

[sammy baby]

I was about to comment about how you need to get a life, or are clearly unbalanced, when I remembered how extended sessions of Quake caused me to walk up and down stairwells by circle-strafing, so as not to be caught off guard.

Re:I can't speak for anyone else, but . . .

[GreenPlastikMan]

As many have pointed out in this thread, the problem is not with the video games but with the parenting. If there exists a violent video game under the sun, I have probably played it, and thoroughly enjoyed the gore in the process.

Still, I don't run around acting it out, because I was raised to understand the difference between reality and non-reality.

This is just like parents saying that Rock 'n Roll was going to turn us all into monsters; or certain books that were banned because of their inflammatory nature.

Parents in this country (or any other country (but this country especially)) need to grab their kids by the ears and let them know what's what, instead of blaming things like sex and/or violence in video-games and movies. It's almost like as though parents think they can just put parenting of their children on auto-pilot and rely on technology (various censoring and tracking gadgets) and the government (the FCC and whatever 1st Amendment-subversive bills "values"-driven politicans are trying to push through Congress these days).

It's almost as if parents today are affraid of getting their hands dirty or having to confront their kids in fear of "not being cool". You are a parent. You're job is NOT to be cool. Instead, you should be worrying about making sure that you raise a well-adjusted kid that doesn't think violence in video games is a green light to go postal on the world. It seemed to have worked for me.

Also, if you start censoring video games, you also have to censor movies and television. Why stop there? Books can be just as much of a hideaway from reality as anything else. For some people it's music that sets them off. For others it may be sports. Who here hasn't watched a Football game or a boxing match and thought to themselves, "Man, I wish I could flatten someone like that" and then thought of the specific person they wish they could flatten?

I'm just saying. The video games and the violence contained therein are not the problem. Instead, it's the fact that people in this country are no longer willing to take responsibilities for their actions, and more specifically their failures.

That starts with the top (politicians) right on down to the everyman, and it shouldn't take a video game to tell us that.

Re:I can't speak for anyone else, but . . .

[Chubby_C]

back in my day we didn't need video games to give us a reason to go on a crime spree...

we just did it.

kids these days just don't have the same innovation/imagination/motivation

Prevent A Double-Standard

[TheFlyingGoat]

Before anyone complains about this, keep in mind that it's just television. You know... make-believe, just like the video games. It would be unfortunate for people to make predictions about how this CSI:Miami episode will affect people considering those critics would be the same ones arguing with Jack about how the games affect people's behavior.

I'm surprised this even made Slashdot. What next... a detailed analysis of how the last Numb3rs episode was incorrect? How TV shows glamorize things that aren't glamorous? It's TV... it's about ratings, not trying to change how people think.

Re:Prevent A Double-Standard

[mbourgon]

Yes, but the old saying holds true - repeat a phrase often enough, enough people believe it true, then it becomes true.

Clew #1: GTA is satire

[gregor-e]

GTA is satire. Made all the richer by those who don't get it and end up looking like the total goofs they are for taking satire seriously.

Chicken, egg, time warp

[Clockwork Apple]

I wonder if the guys doing carjacking,killing,whoring and stealing in the 80s can sue for plagerism?

Yeah video games invented violence, greed and lawlessness, now can we move on?

C.

In this Episode the CSI:Miami team fail

[Dr_LHA]

The entire episode is spent using forensic evidence to track down the killer criminals, and the episode ends in a carjacking followed by an almighty car chase involving 20 police cars and the criminals.

Unfortunately, just before the police are about the catch the crooks, they drive down an alley and pass through a floating police badge, costing $500, and the police promptly forget about them, causing a massive 20 car police pile up followed by period explosions for 5 minutes in which 500 police and innocent bystanders are killed.

However, the criminals later are found standing aimlessly outside a local hospital after a misguided attempt at a stunt jump landed their car in the river, which was unfortunate as they were unable to swim.

And life goes on in Vice Cit.... Miami.

Re:pity

[frostfreek]

Aside from believing it is real, which is a problem, watching this stuff WILL affect us/them. Assuming that it enters your brain, you are affected. You can remember it, can't you?

I am not saying the effect will cause people to do certain actions; I am saying that you are now a (marginally) different person for watching the show, compared to if you didn't watch the show. You know, parallel universes, decisions, and stuff like that.

On a vaguely related note, med students (well, the ones I know) went to 'desensitization' classes. During this time, they watched movies of gross stuff; blood, surgery, accidents... You know, stuff that would make normal people faint, barf, hide, or maybe all three!
If watching that stuff didn't affect them, then there would be no point in doing it.

So, I am open to the idea that watching CSI / playing violent games may desensitize you to the subject.

On another tangent, I do like the idea of someone making a video game where you play a CSI... It could be a GTA mod! Then, play online, and if you prove someone else is guilty... they get kicked! Ha ha!

It's "Beck 2: Spår i Mörker" all over ag

[Sippan]

Hey, they did the exact same thing in 1992 or something with a Swedish movie called Beck 2: Spår i Mörker. That time the victim was Bungie's game Marathon 2. (Though they claimed it was another game called "Final Doom". They didn't fool anyone, as you can see: read all about it, plus screenshots.

Meh

[GarfBond]

Personally I will love CSI if they have the kids yelling GIVEUSATANK or NOPOLICEPLEASE when I'M HORATIO AND I'M ALWAYS MAD/David Caruso start coming after them. Hey, it'd even set up a crappy cliche line for him to say.

I don't think the writers will be that awesome though. Tis a shame.

Dialogue

[paranode]

"Hey what's that in his hand? Can you enhance that so we can read the writing on that note?"

"Absolutely! I'll use my 3D modeling software to virtually reconstruct the note based on the camera footage and flip it over."

"I think it's in an envelope, though."

"No problem, I'll just turn on the thermal imaging X-ray subroutine that comes with the camera footage. It will detect the ink and construct an image for us."

"Okay but can you hurry up a bit, we have about 60 seconds until some plot event happens that will render the suspect uncatchable."

Video Games Do Inspire Re-enactment

[TheRaven64]

Why, just this afternoon I killed a dozen terrorists and then averted an invasion of demon armies by making a quick trip to hell and destroying the majority of their infrastructure. After that, I built a small settlement into a world superpower and proceeded to usher in a new era of peace and enlightenment.

I bet you just read Slashdot.

Recursive CSI

[CynicalGuy]

They should make a CSI episode about a killer who commits crimes based on stuff that he's seen from watching CSI.

Well, there are some causes for concern...

[Space cowboy]

The problem with CSI is that it's not just the bad guys that believe it...

Consider a jury: 12 people too stupid(*) to get out of jury selection wonder why the scientific evidence is so bad. They compare it with what "scientists" say on CSI with all the flashy graphics that seem so convincing, and conclude that the real evidence is not compelling. Reasonable doubt surfaces and joe bad-guy walks.

One of my father's friends is a reasonably-high-ranking policeman back in the UK, and there is a genuine concern that people's expectations of phorensic evidence is being pushed too high by programs like this.

Here's a use for 'mythbusters' - get them to take a CSI show's flashy effects, and then compare to the real world... Some points:

• When you're searching for fingerprints (a computationally-intensive task) you don't put every image up on the screen - you don't even store imagery, you store an encoding of the fingerprint and compare encodings (numbers). In reality it's done by humans, not computers.
  
• You can't zoom-in infinitely, or even much. Why people think crappy security cameras are "better" than their personal digital zooming cameras is beyond me. You can't "clear up" an image when it's zoomed-in, you already have all the data. The best you can do is some thresholding/sharpening/convolution operations...
  
• Results take days or weeks but definitely not minutes.
  
• There are not unlimited manpower resources to throw at every problem.
  
• Cameras cannot see around corners without the aid of a mirror.
  
• The reflection off someone's eyeball is not sufficient information to read a car numberplate.
  
• There is usually more than one place in a city where a given tree type grows.
  
• The city databases are not (a) completely correct, and (b) anywhere near as pervasive as portrayed.
  
• ... ad nauseum.
  

CSI is a fantasy - an enjoyable fantasy, but a fantasy nonetheless. Just once it would be nice if their technological approach failed (the database was wrong, the drivers licence pointed them in the wrong direction, etc.) but no, they're perfect. It would be nice if fingerprints were shown to be not 100% accurate as well (it might trigger some debate!)

Simon

(*) I don't really think jurors are all stupid, some of them are true servants of the state, but some of them... sheesh.

Re:Well, there are some causes for concern...

[garcia]

Consider a jury: 12 people too stupid(*) to get out of jury selection wonder why the scientific evidence is so bad.

While this is off-topic, I'm surprised you were modded up with that flame of a comment. I'm no fan of jury duty, along with everyone else, but it is that duty that gives some people a fair trial. In a time of lessening freedom I'm surprised that anyone would talk like that!

If you're talking about the hardships that certain counties place on their jurors, then we're discussing something else entirely.

Re:Well, there are some causes for concern...

[shawn(at)fsu]

I'm a bit confused, if video games don't influence kids why should we be worried about a TV show influencing adults?

Re:Well, there are some causes for concern...

[sammy baby]

I wish that I still had the reference, but I recall reading an article describing how chemistry classes are seeing an influx of students who all want to be like the cool cats they see on CSI, and have no real appreciation of the work that's actually done by real forensic pathologists. Once they find out what's really entailed, the immediately seek to drop the class.

Re:Well, there are some causes for concern...

[RockModeNick]

Clever, mostly correct, I think the difference is percieved authority - People tend to take situations in "real life" crime drama as theoretically plausable, while video game players are more acutely aware they are playing a game.

Re:Well, there are some causes for concern...

[Dr. Evil]

Several months ago, a Canadian radio program brought in some "experts" from law enforcement and the legal profession. The problem as they describe is not that the evidence is faulty, it's that the expectations of evidence is elevated, and what is considered "reasonable" in "reasonable doubt" is blown out of proportion.

Jurors begin playing lawyer, asking for evidence and trails of evidence to ensure that there was no logical possibilty that the evidence was tainted. They'll also ask for DNA evidence, fingerprinting, bloodsplattering, balistics, etc. when it is inappropriate. They'll raise the possibility of police mishandling of evidence if all these various techniques are not being used... obviously there *must* be a cover-up if there's no detailed balistics report, or if the body wasn't autopsied.

The defense lawyer should be making these cases, they are in a better position to understand the limits of what is reasonable. Admittedly, it makes their job easy when reasonable doubt becomes unreasonable, but it's gotten bad enough to slow down and cause problems for jury selection.

I can't bear to watch CSI. It's not even fiction, it's pure fantasy.

Re:Well, there are some causes for concern...

[bani]

csi claims they use real techniques and real forensic science in their program.

csi's official homepage has "online reference" they use to bolster this claim.

and csi's claims to be using real techniques and real science are impeding real cases.

true -- people are stupid, but CSI has an ethnical responsibility to make it clear their program is entirely fiction. the producers deliberately chose to mislead their audience into believing their program is scientifically and technically accurate in the name of profit. do you want a jury loaded with CSI propaganda judging your case?

Re:With a name...

[SatanicPuppy]

You remember that old school Doom mod that put Barney in place of the Cacodemon? I think they only did that so people would use the chainsaw more.

Chicken or the egg

[TheCache]

So if the claim is that people get violent ideas and act them from playing games, which is worse, the video game or the TV show that explains in great detail exactly how one should become violent after playing games.

Re: Reconstructing images from low-res samples

[po8]

What would be really cool is if the crew of one of these shows was smart/interested enough to actually produce "enhanced" camera shots as they would look coming out of one of these experimental image reconstruction algorithms. You know, crazy mis-prediction artifacts, blocking, pseudocolor, hokey text overlays. Heck, go nuts and have the reconstructed license plate have a character that could be an 8 (40%) or a B (60%).

Doing this would cost the producers almost nothing, greatly increase the versimilitude of the show, and make us geeks feel good. I won't hold my breath.

Re: Reconstructing images from low-res samples

[kin_korn_karn]

that's because shows like this are made as much for law enforcement propaganda as they are for entertainment.

As a gun owner

[GodBlessTexas]

and as a gamer, I'm happy to say "Welcome to the club." We're another group of generally law abiding people who get demonized for the stuff the batshit crazy minority does in our name all the time. And our paths are pretty well connected. I was told repeatedly by the media that it was guns and Doom that caused the shooters in Columbine to go on a killing spree. As Chris Rock says, "What ever happened to crazy?" If all 80,000,000 gun owners in the US were crazy (that's 1 in every three people), the streets would truly be running red with blood like I've been told they would by every anti-gun group. But they don't. How many gamers are there in the US? If the violent content of video games was truly a problem, wouldn't we have more of these violent episodes, not less? Of course, the true issue with Harris and Klebold is that Harris was a pure psychopath. He didn't want to shoot up his school for revenge. He wanted to kill them because he felt nothing but contempt for them. He wanted to be known as one of the greatest mass murderers in US History. So says the psychological profilers who examined his writings. So, it wasn't the game that caused him to be murderous, it was his disgust and contempt for people he saw as beneath him.

Re:Monday's other show

[focitrixilous P]

Also, Tonight's Monday Night Football, which runs on ABC, is a huge rivalry game between the Vikings and the Packers. No one will be watching CSI (on CBS) anyhow, at least not in the Midwest.

This is the lamest of the three anyway.

[dangerweasel]

David Caruso couldn't act his way out of a wet bag. And they drive a Hummer around. I have only ever tortured myself with 2 or 3 episodes of this anyway, so I will not be watching anyway. Isn't Jack Thompson from Miami? Super secret network television conspiracy anyone?

Bad season for CSI

[FullCircle]

The only one I've seen this season is the first episode of CSI:NY.

Within 2 minutes they pulled out a fucking tricorder and I turned it off.
I complained about the image enhancements for years.
I complained about pseudo-science for years.
Star Trek tech is just too much.

All CSI's are off my (short) list of watchable TV now.

I wonder

[MBHkewl]

I wonder if the writers/producers are paid by certain groups/organizations to do such episodes...

What I want to know is

[MrShaggy]

"as they score points for each crime committed, the CSIs must discover what consists of getting to the next level in the game in order to stop the culprits before they strike again.'" How come the CSI's are investigating anything other then the crime scene itself ? I thought that the Homicide detectives were there to stop the Homicides ? Thats the part I could never get either. Why is it that these guys go and confront the brutal killers themsevles, no back up, and the culprits give themselves up ?

oh, you mods...

[Aero Leviathan]

I find it hilarious that parent post is modded 'Insightful'.

I can just picture some mod sitting and reading over that post, stroking his beard, saying to himself... 'by jove, that guy's right, Barney DOES make me feel that way!' (*clicks Insightful*) 'Hmm, I'd better go see if my diplomatic immunity papers cover that...'

Re:oh, you mods...

[killmenow]

You must have never seen alt.barney.die.die.die

It has to be in digital.

[Grendel Drago]

You left out the stupid use of the word "digital":

Sure enough, the feckless dramaturge later shows us a technician clattering away at the keyboard of a laptop, by which time we are able to see that the shadowy figures in the distant window, though still barely resolved, may be up to no good. "That's about as good as I can get it... in analog," says the technician.

"What about...digital?" Asks the redheaded crime-fighter, portentously.

And certainly not...

[Grendel Drago]

And certainly not anyone who's ever heard of jury nullification!

Shit, that ain't the half of it.

[Grendel Drago]

I saw an episode of, I think, CSI, where a cop who'd been kicked off the force had fabricated evidence to get someone sent to jail who he was real sure was guilty. The guy turned out to be innocent--the real killer had gone free, and murdered again, partly because this guy had planted the evidence.

So, you'd think we'd be watching a tale about this guy's hubris, and his fall from grace, and how he learns the importance of due process. You'd be wrong.

The episode centered around our other leads buttering this guy up, telling him how much the force needed him, and how he couldn't let himself succumb to his guilt, because there were bad guys out there that needed catchin'.

I shit thee not. This is the kind of story they tell, which is why I refused to watch another damned episode. I don't care how cleft the leads' chins are, or how clever the zoom effects.

The larger issue...

[Infonaut]

which you raise is this:

Just once it would be nice if their technological approach failed (the database was wrong, the drivers licence pointed them in the wrong direction, etc.) but no, they're perfect.

The American worldview at present is a curious mixture of faith in higher powers and faith in technology. Americans tend to believe that our sophisticated technology will always prevail. We like bright, easily-discerned lines and are very uncomfortable with nuanced ethical decisions. It's obvious in our entertainment (lest the video game industry smirk and point fingers at Hollywood, movies aren't alone in this), our generally idea-free political process, and our bewilderment when our technological marvels don't automagically win wars for us.

CSI's treatment of video games is just one more episode in an ongoing list that goes back to the dawn of Hollywood. Fictional entertainment may purport to be realistic, but it seldom is. Let's flip this one on its head and look at video game realism. Just walking around in body armor in blazing heat, with a helmet on your head, a weapon in hand, and assorted other crap festooned to your person is a pain in the ass. Games can't give us anything remotely approximating what that feels like. When you go into combat in the streets of Bagdhad, if you get shot in the face, you're either dead or fucked up for life. "Realistic" first-person shooters go to great lengths to be as realistic as possible in all aspects but the most important one of all. Ah, but how entertained would we be if our on-screen personas died every time we entered combat? Well, therein lies the rub. Just as first-person shooters distort reality by pretending that with enough guns and enough automagically-supplied bullets and miracle life-saving rejuvenators you can win epic battles against long odds, so television distorts reality by providing seemingly realistic settings that actually present the reality ass-backwards.

Bottom line: No matter how slick the presentation, it's all still entertainment, and it is usually almost completely divorced from reality.

Re:With a name...

[Olix]

Its all supported, its just you have to do lots of wierd stuff such as registering your HL1 CD with Steam. I think you might then need to download steams version of the HL files, I know not. And yes, HalfLife1 and Counter Strike are still fully supported. Anyway, to register your original HL game, log in, go to the "Games" tab and click "Activate a product on Steam". After that its all pretty obvious. Go check an FAQ or something if you need more details.

This post has nothing to do with the original topic..

Sorry, no space.

[Grendel Drago]

Gee, I'm sure the liberals would like to throw all the violent psychopaths into the clink, but there's just no room in there since you conservative types have filled up the jails with nonviolent pot smokers.

Whoops, makin' way too much sense here. I'd better give it a rest.

Re: Reconstructing images from low-res samples

[angle_slam]

Uh, no. They almost always have false leads and investigate the wrong person first. For example, the last episode I saw of CSI: NY, they spent well over half the show investigating the wrong guy (the one who was at the poker game.) It was only at the end of the show that they figured out who the real culprit was.

apples and oranges

[Ender Ryan]

Violent video games are in no way analogous to shows like CSI. CSI is presented as a being an accurate portrayal of forensic science. Games like GTA are not presented as being accurate portrayals of gang life(or whatever).

More importantly, the types of influence in the case of violent video games and inaccurate television programming are completely different. It is easy to misinform a person. To do so, you simply lie. Given a lack of evidence to the contrary, many all too trusting people will believe you. That is not the same as turning someone into a killer.

The comparison is outrageous. It is shocking that it has been deemed by the mods to warrant a +5.

In A Nutshell...

[dumdeedum]

[Camera flies in over Miami, pans past some T&A, settles on a bank, crime happens, screen flashes to post-crime investigation scene]

SUPPORTING CAST: Blah blah blah VIDEO GAMES blah blah.

HORATIO: Well now [puts on sunglasses, stares into distance] it looks like the game just turned deadly!

[roll intro]

~ I can't believe it's not science stuff happens ~

[Horatio locks up criminal]

HORATIO: Well now [puts on sunglasses, stares into distance] I guess it's game over!

[roll credits]

Re: Reconstructing images from low-res samples

[Captain Nitpick]

What would be really cool is if the crew of one of these shows was smart/interested enough to actually produce "enhanced" camera shots as they would look coming out of one of these experimental image reconstruction algorithms.

One of my favorite scenes from Monk involved an "enhanced" image.

DISHER: The shooter abandoned the car in a parking lot. There was a security camera. We got a picture of him.

He hands the captain a large, blown up photograph of a man standing near the car in black and white. It's a surveillance grab. It's rather hard to make out any defining features.

STOTTLEMEYER: Wait, that's it? They can't clean that up?

DISHER: It is cleaned up. I mean, he was 50 feet away. Should I release it to the press?

STOTTLEMEYER: What's the point? I've seen better pictures of Bigfoot!