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MacWorld Keynote Announces x86 iMac & Laptop
Steve Jobs began giving his keynote at 9am local time, PST. The action was posted live at MacRumorsLive, and Engadget. From the Engadget liveblog: "How many [iPods] did we sell last quarter? Some of the estimates were getting astronomical - 8 million, 9 million. I'm really pleased to announce that last quarter we sold 14 million iPods .. that is over a hundred every minute, 24/7 throughout the quarter. And it still wasnt enough. We've now sold over 42 million iPods -- as you can see the curve is going up again" MacWorld and Ars Technica has coverage as well. The shiniest news: MacBook Pro. iSight, Front Row; $1999 1.67 Core Duo; 667 DDR bus, Radeon x1600; $2499 1.83GHz. Intel chip.
It's worth mentioning in the summary that these new Macs are Intel based. The linked articles state this. The first Intel Macs are here, ahead of when they were expected.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro
Dropped FW 800 and cardbus.
Apple has sold Personal Computers (PC's) since 1976. What part of "every Macintosh is a PC" don't you understand? Cheers,
The next pasture is always greener
Yes. The first several generations of PowerBooks ran 68k processors.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Wow, Apple stock is up almost 7% on this news.
Worth noting that the CardBus slot has been replaced with a ExpressCard/34 slot.
The PowerBook line of laptops did indeed exist before the PPC. However, the PowerMac line of machines was named due to the use of the PPC chip.
Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
Actually, they said they would not go out of their way to stop you, they never said they would support it or make it easy.
According to the Macbook Pro page, this will be the URL that the new keynote will be posted at. If you keep refreshing (although that's apparently a felony now...) you can let everyone know when it goes live!
How to use coral cache: http://slashdot.org.nyud.net:8090/~oscartheduck
What the hell are you talking about?
I just priced a Dell laptop with relatively the same specs and the price came up to $2621 for a 9400 with a 17" screen (They don't offer a Core Duo with a 15.4" screen) And it's still a fucking Dell. So how's the Mac overpriced?
What part of "It's faster than the G4" and "We tried, but couldn't fit a G5 in it" don't you get?
Apple has sold PCs since back in the days of the Power PCs, and they have always been Macs. There are a couple fundemental differences between what the average geek refers to as a PC, and a Mac. A PC runs windows, and a Mac runs Mac OS. This hasn't changed. A PC can be assembled without the permission of a PC manufacturer, while a Mac is built by Apple, and delived as a whole system. Always. As far as I know, this hasn't changed. A Mac will NEVER be missing drivers for what is inside of it. A PC will almost always be missing drivers for some insignificant piece. These are still Macs.
It's pretty expensive, to tell you the truth. I ran the specs on a Gateway NX560XL that is set up very similarly to the 15.4" MacBook Pro and got a price of $1454.99. The only differences are that you can't get a single 512MB DDR2-667 module in the Gateway (2x256 is available as is 2x512, 2x1GB) and the GPU is a 128MB ATI X1400 vs. the 128MB X1600 in the Mac. Otherwise they are the same- same HDD, same optical drive, same CPU, same chipset.
I dunno but for the extra ~$550, I could get a much faster laptop than the MacBook *or* I could get the Gateway and have the money in my pocket. Many speculated as to the actual Apple premium, but they couldn't directly compare the PPC Apples to the x86 notebooks. Now we can and the premium is at least $550. I would have guessed it would be $200 to $300, but now we know for sure.
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
It looks just like my G4 Powerbook. What's so different?
Actually, they announced a Wired Remote/FM Tuner accessory.
$50 is a bit much for a radio, especially since just about every other mp3 player out there comes with an FM tuner. But now that they've finally caved on adding that feature, I think it's safe to say the 6G iPod will have a FM tuner when it comes along in 6 months.
Don't forget that:
1. PowerMacs are dual-processor standard
2. Much more expandable (cards, drives)
3. and don't force you to use the dinky 20" screen (if you have the cinema display)
4. Run all Mac software natively, without Rosetta translation
People buying the new MacBooks and iMac will be on the cutting edge for the next six months. (Not that that will stop me..)
Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
No, they have a standard bios, like the dev machines.
Those of us if the OS X on Intel scene have not seen an Intel release of 10.4.4 yet but as of 10.4.3 we have managed to bypass the TPM and SSE3 requirements so that you can install OS X on a beige box so to speak. (assuming you hardware works with Darwin)
In fact I am posting this from an OS X box that started life as a Toshiba Laptop.
Once they ship, I predict it will be a matter of weeks before you can download an install DVD to install OS X on your beige box. Granted, without SSE3 rosetta is veeeeeeery slow but with native apps, it is currents much faster then native PPC apps.
And that while it may not have FW800, it does have Firewire 400.
They also dropped the built-in modem, which is a bit annoying for road warriors. (You know, the people who use the portability of their laptops?) Yes, you can get a USB modem, but it's one more dongle to pack in your case.
So they did have to take two very interesting -- can we say essential?
Not really. Firewire 800 never went anywhere, and there's an ExpressCard slot for expansion.
What could have the MacBook been if they had stayed with Power
Um, a lot slower?
So this launched has killed the Mac for me.
That makes no sense whatsoever, but ok.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
The PowerBooks first came out in 1991. There were no PowerPC Macs at that time, and the models introduced (the PB 100, 140, and 170) used the 68000 and 68030. The first PowerBooks with 68040's came out in 1994, as did the first PowerMacs. The first PPC PowerBooks came out in 1995.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
iMac that's as powerful as a PowerMac? Who's gonna wanna buy PowerMacs for the next couple months?
People who need bigger screens or expansion. Also, the quad G5 will still be much faster than the iMac in threadable tasks. But really, tower sales in general have been weak the last few years anyway. Laptops are the future, and it's much better for Apple to have competitive laptops even at the risk of cannibalizing some towers.
And a MacBook Pro that's 10x more powerful than a iBook?!? There goes the iBook market...
The iBook market doesn't care much about performance.
Anybody else see the logic of transitioning the consumer desktop and pro laptop first
Sort of. The PB was a no-brainer; it's a "pro" machine that has been hobbled by the G4 for years. The towers are probably waiting for Conroe this summer; one reason would be that Apple wouldn't want to "downgrade" from the 64-bit G5 to the 32-bit Yonah. (It doesn't matter for the iMac, since not many people are running heavy scientific apps on them).
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Actually the USB ports on both sides are convenient for those that might prefer to use a USB mouse with their left hand, or their right hand without having to wrap the cord around - especially those little travel ones that have shorter cords.
Ok, I'll play that game. To get a comparable system, you need to do some serious upgrading to the Gateway. XP Pro (which is free for a limited time), Office Basic (as the mac comes with iWork '06), a single 512mb stick of ram (only available in 533mhz modules, oh well), upgraded graphics, upgraded monitor (the MacBook has a 1440x1960 resolution, closest option on the gateway is the 1400x1040), upgraded hard drive, upgraded optical drive, and upgraded bluetooth.
All of that to get it *almost* equal to the MacBook is $1814.98. Plus, that does not come with a firewire camera, nor a remote control, not to mention all the software Apple bundles in for free.
So the premium is $185.02, and that's only if the additional hardware and software standard on the MacBook are worthless to you.
I dunno who it is
but it prolly is fhqwhgads.
That extra $550 can be measured in five things:
Size and weight(which translates to engineering and design), since the Gateway is 1.3" thick and 6lb and the MacBook is 1" thick and 5.6lb
Dual link DVI; the Gateway only has VGA and s-video, while the MacBook can power the new Dell or the old Apple 30" LCD.
Software: The MacBook comes with iLife, OS X, iChat, etc
Hardware: The MacBook comes with a 640x480 30fps build in video camera
QA: I think Apple notebooks are slightly more reliable than Gateway... but feel free to buy the Gateway if that extra $100 savings means that much to you
All five things together work to roughly $110 per point, don't you think?
GPL Deconstructed
The mini and iBook will probaby use Core Solo processors that are not available yet.
Approximately: MacBookPRO = 2699euros iMac = 1379euros, starting prices :)
ciop ciop
Well if you install the X11 application from the Mac OS X disk and install the XCode developer tools (also on the disk, but can be downloaded from apple/developer) you might get all that you asked for.
I know OS X may not have the geek factor, but I really want to use my computer, not compile the OS again, and again.
Whatever floats your boat I guess.
Why would I want that? Says the person on his FOURTH adapter for his POS dell. Of course I'm not bitter that my fourth adapter already has to be bent just so in order to even charge anymore.
Very nice design. We'll see how it holds up in a year or so though.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
It's easy to see how you could come to this conclusion, especially considering that the Acer has a built-in camera like the iSight built into the MacBook Pro... (Yes, I looked up the Acer for comparison, and was surprised at the inclusion of a camera.)
But... these machines actually do differ substantially, both in specs and in the case. For one thing, Acer is using carbon fiber composite, and Apple is not; the iSight mount looks different from the Acer's camera mount, as does the latch mechanism for the lid. So, sorry, they are not the same laptop. Apple did not rebadge an Acer laptop.
The Acer boasts 2 GB RAM; the Apple offerings are expandable up to 2 GB, but come standard with either 512 or 1 GB of RAM, depending on the model. So that's another difference in Acer's favor. The ports are laid out totally differently. The Acer does not appear to have FireWire, while the MacBook Pro has FireWire 400. I think the Acer boasts a 2 GHz dual-core processor, while the MacBook Pro's CPU speeds are 1.67 and 1.83 GHz (depending on model).
Personally, I'll take the superior OS and the Apple build quality over the Acer offering any day.
If you had been bothered to actually do some research and check your facts, you might have saved yourself some embarrassment.
A: Clock for clock the G5 is faster than the Pentium 4 architecture, so you were told the truth.
B: Clock for clock the Pentium M based Core Duo chip is faster than the G5. So again the truth.
Mix in some marketing (aka exagerations) and you have your situation.
Statement A: was meaningless because the P4 architecture always ran at a much faster clock speed which made it faster in actual use. So Intel in practical terms has pretty much always been faster.
It helps to ignore marketing and think for yourself what you want.
I never bought a Mac before but I might get one this year becasue I like the new architecture. I am waiting on a new Mini. I hope it uses the new Core Duo and runs cool and quiet. I hope they aren't putting the core solo in the mini as I would have to keep waiting...
You show me a brand new laptop with the same specs and the same processor for anything less than the new laptop.
Ok.
Gateway S-7510N, 1.67 GHz Intel Core Duo, 512 MB 667 MHz memory, 80 GB 5400 RPM drive, ATI Radeon X1400 SE, 15.4" WSXGA+ screen, 8x DVD-RW, Windows XP Pro -- $1544.99
What it doesn't have (comparatively): uses 2 memory slots, not 1. Has a lower end graphics card (not by too much). Doesn't have a built in video camera. Doesn't run OSX. The nifty power cord. Not as thin.
What it does have: 802.11a compatibility, built-in modem, 6-in-1 card reader, 2 more USB slots. $450 in your pocket.
They build machines that have wireless and bluetooth, and fast hard drives and such, and if you want it, you buy it, if not, there is no crap, 500 laptop. They dont waste your or their time. Sorry kids....
You're just plain lying, kid. Every single pentium M laptop dubbed "centrino" has had integrated wireless for the past what, 3 years? Let's check a Dell Inspiron 6000. Base price is 799$, comes with a 1.86GHz pentium M. Bluetooth is a 39$ option. A 7200 RPM drive is a 150$ option. Big total? 990$.
A little shy of the 2500$ for the 1.83GHz MacBook Pro, kid.
"There are very limited UNIX-type tools included, such as there is no gcc, make, and X11"
Uh...from Apple's web site:
"With a compiler machine model developed by Apple in partnership with IBM, Xcode uses GCC 4.0 to optimize code for Apple's PowerPC G5 architecture." (http://www.apple.com/macosx/developertools/)
make is also there... (although not on that page, it is on the developer site)
and...
What's this? OH NO! It's X11!!! http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/
Troll.
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple has implemented some kind of unique encrypted handshaking between the OS X installer and the hardware so that only Apple's OS can be installed on it, so that they can avoid receiving support calls from people who put Windows on Apple hardware. Keep in mind that even if they refuse to provide support for such a configuration, the bulk of a support call's cost is in the customer placing the call in the first place. If someone calls only to be told "we don't support that", that has already cost Apple a good bit of money.
They won't support that, but they declared already that they will do nothing to prevent it. After Apple Intel FAQ:
After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that.
There were rumblings about the Intel Macs dropping Classic support, but now it looks official. Compare the software specs for the PowerBook G4 to the MacBook Pro.
Actually, the term "PowerBook" has nothing to do with the processor. They were called PowerBooks when they originally shipped with Motorola 68030 processors, years before migrating to the PowerPC chip. It's just a neat coincidence.
You can have my one-button mouse when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
Nope, that was 2 revisions ago; the last 15" powerbook was also 1440x900.
From the FAQ:
1.4. Does Xen support Microsoft Windows?
Unfortunately we do not currently support Windows; the paravirtualized approach we use to get such high performance has not been usable directly for Windows to date. However recently announced hardware support from Intel and AMD will allow us to transparently support Windows XP & 2003 Server in the near future. We are working on this and intend to have support available by the time the new processors are available.
Duo is that new processor.
VT and Xen 3.0 will
virtualize Windows XP...
From PR:
The demonstration features a pre-release version of Xen 3.0 virtualizing both Linux and Microsoft Windows XP SP2. Support for unmodified guests, such as Windows, is made possible by Intel's VT technology, which provides a privileged mode of execution that allows Xen to share platform resources between both modified and unmodified guest operating systems, providing CPU, memory and I/O resource guarantees.
New 3.0Ghz Pen4 has VT and Yonah being part of the 65nm tech... also has virtualization.
They meant a clean-room suit. Bunny is slang for that I guess.
MacBook pro starts at $1999 in the US, forex converts this to 15 226,58 SEK.
;)
1 US$ = 7.62 SEK
However as we all know Apple have their own exchange rates, so:
1 Apple$ = 13.25 SEK and the price in Sweden wents up to 26.495 SEK.
(no, I'm not calculating the fact we have 25% vat, but anyway, it sucks to buy apple hardware in Sweden, I could pay 11.300 SEK for a travel to the US and buy it there...)
The american prices of Apples are ok, the Swedish ones are just retarded.
Of course I want a mac, but not at any price, especially since I haven't got a work
So, shall I buy a Dell (with I can get an extra 30% or so of from) and run Linux/FreeBSD instead? I hate how we are always getting screwed by Apple.
Dude, they were called PowerBooks before the PPC came along.
-b
myselfmusic
According to this newly updated page at Apple's Dev site, the new Macs use EFI.
There is no such thing as an "optimum" DPI for the eyes. The more DPI the better. Small text/UI elements can be hard to see, but text size is completely independent of DPI. Unfortunately, current operating systems use pixel-based layout which makes it difficult to scale UIs to the optimum size for different DPIs. Instead of limiting their screen resolution, Apple should fix their OS and applications to scale screen elements properly in a resolution-independent manner.
FYI, iWork '06 is not standard. It's just a trial version.
Office Basic (as the mac comes with iWork '06)
No, it comes with iWork '06 preview. If you want iWork preinstalled, it is a BTO option for $79 which is the same as retail price.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
http://macworld.apple.com.edgesuite.net/mw/index.h tml
I can't fathom why they'd introduce a new generation of hardware like this and drop back on features that are almost a no-op to keep.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
In the case of AAPL stock, the price has gone up 8x in just two years. In stock traders terms, AAPL and GOOG are definitely bubble stocks -- nobody is doubting that the companies are great, but the stocks have gotten out of hand. A high stock rise like this indicates extreme expectations of where the company will be in a couple years. However, it is highly unlikely that a company as old and large as AAPL can grow that fast.
You may want to note that Apple P/E ratio has dropped from the 80s down to the low 40s (not counting the run up to MWSF) and its forward looking P/E is in the low 30s (not counting MWSF run up). I personally would love see the P/E down under 20 but the stock is trending down in P/E not up which is a good thing.
Notice that they used the Intel compilers. That makes a HUGE difference. You won't get those results with gcc.
No, there's a little green LED that turns on when the camera is active. There may be a physical iris too, I didn't think to look for that. Will try to find out and comment again later. At any rate, that still protects you from just about everybody but someone who could slip something into the iSight firmware (or perhaps device driver). That led could even be hardwired into the ccd power, then it's pretty much fool proof.
John, live from MWSF
On Apple Input Peripherals: They're okay, I guess, but I was really hoping for a one-key keyboard and a 109-button mouse
That's interesting. I didn't know what ExpressCard was, so I just looked into it a bit.
/54 form factor device is because you can't deal with the space or heat dissipation constraints of the /34 form factor. There's no other obvious benefit to making the larger card. Your observation that the only available Firewire 800 cards are /54 leads me to think that the reason Apple is moving away from Firewire 800 is that they haven't been able to make it small or cool enough.
Seems that the only reasons to make a
Maybe it's about heat, not money. Hmm.
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
Hot potatoes, Oxford shores, Puck to make amends!
It looks like the new Macs will be all that we hoped. According to this page,they use EFI for their bootloader. So once the rest of the hardware is supported, linux support should not be an issue, and neither should windows (though I have no idea about Windows support for EFI).
Vive la Apple ;-)
To be completely pedantic, the 68K compatibility layer (called the Mixed Mode Manager) started out as an emulator and was converted to a just-in-time translator later on. Rosetta is starting out as a JIT translator with some sort of caching going on to improve performance on consecutive launches.
The name PowerBook precedes the PowerPC chip by a long time.
Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
The name PowerBook has nothing to do with PowerPC processors - the first PowerBook had a Motorola 68000, and used that same series for years. Power Macintosh, on the other hand, does have its roots in the PowerPC processor name.
The parent should have provided the updated Rosetta link, but I think you (and the other replier) are incorrect (for now).
From that updated Rosetta page:
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
(For comparison it's only in the last week or so that Linux has been made to boot on the Dual Core G5s, since they use a bridge chip that differs significantly from those used in earlier versions)
James P. Barrett
Good point, I hadn't really thought of that. I suppose that's only going to be a *real* problem for people doing HD video, though, huh? I mean, I don't know what the cause of your problems were, but I've *never* had problems importing DV via FW800, even on a ( really ) 800Mhz G4 iMac... maybe there was a controller issue you were having?
In any event, the "MacBook Pro" is undoubtedly much more ready to edit video on-the-go than current PowerBooks, and FW400 is fine for importing DV-quality video, and USB2.0 is there as well, so... I'm guessing the only issues that might *really* arise fo rthe on-the-go video editor is if they're doing HD or want faster access to disc drives than FW400 or USB2.0 offer. Sadly, I see a lot of things going to USB2.0...
Of course, I suppose you could always use that ExpressCard slot to host a Firewire 800 card, though, couldn't you? Since it's such a specialized need, I guess Apple could be forgiven for providing the ports more commonly needed...
For that matter, the new iMacs are likely to outrun all current PowerMacs but the dual dual core. That's bound to be a bit of a marketing problem.
Only if selling iMacs instead of PowerMacs is a problem, really, I guess :-). They'll get their PowerMacs updated by the end of the year, probably in less than 6 months or so... I'm guessing it's not really going to be a problem. Forget PowerMac sales, though... who is going to buy a Mac mini now??
The PowerBar precedes the PowerBook by five years.
I'm not a Troll, it's reverse psychology.
rosetta instantly recompiles PPC code to x86, not emulate, so the only true overhead is the compilation
JIT recompilation is a really good technique, but it's nowhere near a match for optimised native code. Particularly when you have a problem like the x86 register bottleneck to deal with.
Freeport Express on the Alpha provided really good performance translating from x86 and Sparc, but Freeport Express was converting from processors with 8 registers or 32 visible registers to one with 64 registers, so you could put all your emulated registers in real registers.
This time the code you're JIT translating is optimised for a relatively register-rich environment, and optimised with the assumption that the cost for fetching data from a register is very low. Converting that code to work well where the cost for fetching data from a register may involve moving other data out of a register first so the physical register can be freed up for another emulated register is a Hard Problem.
Emulation without JIT translation typically gives you at best 1/10th the performance of native code, and where you're emulating a processor with more registers that's very optimistic. Freeport Express was able to run x86 code on an Alpha with performance comparable to contemporary Pentium processors... but for the machine I was using that Alpha had a 66% faster clock than its Pentium peer. Rosetta has a much harder job to do, and is NOT going to run translated code at the claimed 80%, my observed 60%, or even an optimistic 30% of the speed of native code.
The 80% figure people quote is not the speed of the translated code. It's the speed of a "typical application"... one that is spending most of its time in Apple's GUI libraries, which are not running under emulation.
For the MacBook, where getting rid of the the G4 memory bottleneck gives you a 6x improvement in the Stream benchmark, you may well be looking at a genuine performance improvement for "typical applications". For the G5? Unless you're almost entirely using the applications shipped with the system, you're better off waiting.
Except that the name "PowerBook" predates the switch to PowerPC...
Here is the link for the keynote: http://macworld.apple.com.edgesuite.net/mw/index.h tml
Attitudes make the difference between Space and Time: we want to MAX our temporal, and MIN our spatial extension.
I bought a Mac Mini last summer right before the Intel announcement (D'oh!). Anyways, I bought a DVI to Composite/S-Video convertor. Image quality is great coming off the DVI port, but I couldn't get it work with my PC's video cards (either a Geforce4 ti4200, or ATI Radeon 9800 Pro). You can find a link to it here on the Apple Store http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/c anadastore.woa/72208/wo/nZ1BJ9hIeFDv3cQ0TSnFsbbu4M Q/5.SLID?mco=7434E310&nplm=M9267G%2FA
I can't spell ripburger
That's: "you're gay".
here's a little history on the naming of the Powerbook
These are some of the things molecules do...... given 4 billion years -Carl Sagan
Not necessarily.
This sig left blank for page turns.
Yeah, Ars Technica said that the MacBook Pro battery life was around 3 hours.
Imagine different. They use EFI.