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Court Action Does Not Reduce File-Sharing

gollum123 wrote to mention a BBC report that despite numerous court cases, litigation does not appear to be reducing the amount of file-sharing. From the article: "The level of file-sharing has remained the same for two years despite 20,000 legal cases in 17 countries. The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) said it was 'containing" the problem and more people were connecting to broadband."

233 comments

  1. Obviously by Rekolitus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The more people that take court action, the more bitter people will be, and the less likely people will buy from them.

    1. Re:Obviously by AoT · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed.

      The tighter they clench their fist, the more files will slip from their grasp.

      But really, look at this logicaly. The record companies never thought they could stop this with law suits, they were forced to sue to keep the idea that downloading music is wrong in peoples heads. This is a rear-guard action while the big companies work on new business plan. Of course, whether those plans work or not is another story.

    2. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly, people should stop buying from such an industry and instead buy only from independent labels or directly from the artists.

    3. Re:Obviously by mboverload · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > The more people that take court action, the more bitter people will be, and the less likely people will buy from them.

      Yep.

      Unlike some people, I have NO problem with the music they produce. I'm one of those losers that like Green Day. I like mainstream music like Dashboard Confessional, Fall Out Boy, or even Justin Timberlake. Big fucking deal. Sue me.

      However, I can't buy msuic from them on principal. Just like I wouldn't buy blankets from the online Al-qaeda shop, I can't buy music from them. Yes, an extreme example but it lays out my point in black and white:

      I don't buy things/support people/companies I think are "true evil".

      I don't buy from Walmart, I don't buy music from the RIAA, and I don't buy ten year old girls from the local human trafficker.

    4. Re:Obviously by LordRPI · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Note that one of the first publicized waves of RIAA lawsuits coincided with a heavy marketing campaign by Apple and Pepsi for free downloads on iTunes. Coincidence? I think not. Heck, some of the kids being sued caught some good airtime in the commercials.

    5. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't buy music, or pepsi. So I guess that must make me a bad person.

    6. Re:Obviously by gnuLNX · · Score: 1

      While I believe you might very well be correct with you hind-sight speculation. I do think it is unlinkely that any of the record companies had the foresight to see it this way....nope they are just adapting like the rest of us.

      --
      what?
    7. Re:Obviously by AoT · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nah, one of my roommates bought a song off of iTMS the other day and the rest of the house made fun of him mercilessly for a week.

      And pepsi is only ok to buy if you get liquor to go with it.

    8. Re:Obviously by rlanctot · · Score: 1
      The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) said
      ...and when contacted for comment, The International Federation of the _Pornographic_ Industries said: "Spank me now, big daddy!"
    9. Re:Obviously by masdog · · Score: 1

      What song did he buy?

    10. Re:Obviously by AoT · · Score: 1

      Gwen Stefani- Holla Back Girl

      The actual song was about half of it.

      I mean, have some taste.

    11. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Copyright was never about the experience, it was always about the product. They want a copyright on the experience of something; afterall, the Eifel tower is an experience and it's copywritten, as is times square in new york. You can't take pictures of it; security guards will forcibly confiscate the film. Same goes for a number of other things in America.

      Copyright was always for the profitable production of various works; works being vynle records, tape casetts, music rolls, ect. It's come to the point where it's now on the experience of something, which it was never meant to be. But pioneering judges and profiteering politicians have sold their power for profit and in their attempt to gain an income, have sold off nearly all of their vested commodity.

      Frankly, if you're sharing music, you aren't a bad guy. If you're on the streets of Chicago selling burned CD's and harddrives full of various works then yeah, your but should be busted because you're selling a product, not sharing an experience.

      It may seem sad to some that we now have been spoiled by this technology. Frankly, technology has brought us closer together, and we have now nearly reached the ultimate goal copyright set out to achieve; a technology that lets everyone produce and spread experiences and media, for free. The new market, undoubtedly, will be for experience preservation. 89 cents to buy an MP3 is a bad business model; 89cents to gain access to someone's perminant music preservation service and $50 to order a hyper-long-lasting recording of it is going to be the new business model. Because of gnutella, I now have access to a breath and depth of information never before realized, and in the future, it will only exponentially increase. I can now hit a few websites and get enough books to last me for the rest of my life if I read them back to back, in mabye 2 or 3 days.

      The recording industry cannot compete with technology so they've tried to destroy technology, and have thus far failed and will fail. The cost of producing media and experience has gone down and down and as it does we get closer to living in a completly virtualised and created reality with created experiences and created ideas.

      Ownership and property will become obsolete. I look foward to the ultimate ego/identity dissolution experience it will be. Of course, there will be those who will refuse the change and will lead a path of destroying themselves and will try to drag everyone else under them. That's the basic idea behind revelations.

      If we've got a problem with filesharing, wait until someone figures out a way to make a home-fabrication machine the size of a car that can produce anything a machinist can. ;)

    12. Re:Obviously by masdog · · Score: 1

      Unless he was a DJ, I'd make fun of him too. Now you just need to capture him singing along to it in the shower.

    13. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To quote the spokesman, "winning the war" and further such comments from him sound somewhat familiar. As well as claiming the filesharing numbers are flat fly somewhat in the face of basic facts, like that the file sharing numbers don't include bittorrent due to it being hard to track. Now who did this remind me of again...., oh yes, The Iraqi Information Minister.

      'We're winning the war against the filesharing dogs, even now our forces are preparing a devastating blow to destroy them and send them running to there homes like the cowards they are!'

      Just a thought.

    14. Re:Obviously by bladernr · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I don't buy things/support people/companies I think are "true evil".

      If you were truly taking a principled stand, you would stop listening to the music altogether. It seems like you are trying to justify knowingly breaking the law with the reason "I like it." Interesting principled stand: "But I like it...."

      --
      Sarcasm and hyperbole are the final refuges for weak minds
    15. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Which begs the question: Who do you buy ten year old girls from?

    16. Re:Obviously by umofomia · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If you were truly taking a principled stand, you would stop listening to the music altogether. It seems like you are trying to justify knowingly breaking the law with the reason "I like it." Interesting principled stand: "But I like it...."
      Isn't the statement of a principled stand even stronger if you actually do like the product? If you didn't like the product, you wouldn't have bought it anyway, so how is that a statement? If you do like the product but refuse to buy it because of the ethics of the seller, then you are actually making a statement because you are actually depriving yourself of something you would have bought otherwise.
    17. Re:Obviously by E8086 · · Score: 1

      "Sue me."

      I don't think that's a phrase you should say around the RIAA, they might.

      I do like the last section, DRM is misunderstood and flexible. Of course it is, or not. I think "legal" sales of digital music would increase if it was sold in the form of unrestricted 320kbps mp3 for 99cents. That way the paying customers, or 'criminals' to the RIAA, can do whatever they want with it. I don't give away things I paid for. If for some reason I ever purchased a song in some digital format, even un DRMed, I would not simply give it away and I like to think that's the same with most people.

      I guess the RIAA just realized PCs can store more than 100MB and have processors faster than 33MHz and can easily play audio files. If they had earlier and taken advantage of the new market we'd all be able to cheaply buy high quality un-DRMed songs, there might even be a few good ones. But they fought it and lost and make up, or have someone else make up, stats to make their obsession look like a noble crusade against "piracy"

      --
      F7 doesn't work, ignore spelling and grammar
    18. Re:Obviously by willfe · · Score: 1

      "Big fucking deal. Sue me."

      Heh. Give them time, they'll find you :) They won't sue you for liking their stuff (hey, to each his own, eh?), after all -- millions upon millions of the teeming America pop culture crowd love the stuff. Once they read your post though and realize you must be downloading it (since you don't buy their stuff and you still love their stuff, surely you can't possibly resist the temptation to get it all for free?), you'll be hearing from one of their "settlement centers."

      --
      Read my stuff.
    19. Re:Obviously by strider44 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sue me.

      Don't worry, just wait a while and they'll give you your turn.

    20. Re:Obviously by deathy_epl+ccs · · Score: 1

      If for some reason I ever purchased a song in some digital format, even un DRMed, I would not simply give it away and I like to think that's the same with most people.

      I believe this is wishful thinking on your part... people have been trading music using dual tape decks and the like for years, and nothing will change this. Most people will share their music.

      My personal solution to this is not one most people would probably care for, but I no longer buy music - and I only download free music. There's a surprising amount of good music available for free, but it really helps if you like techno.

    21. Re:Obviously by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What would they consider to be "winning the war", anyway? Complete elimination of the Pirates Of The Internet (won't happen)? 80% decrease in piracy rates (possibly, not likely)? Their sales going up to the point they want them?

      I have a feeling that they'll declare victory no matter what happens in order to keep up morale and put up a good front. The same way both political parties in the US try to claim victory every two years. Anything else would make them look weak.

    22. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I buy from Walmart, because they have better prices. Oh, and because I'm not an ignorant fucktard who thinks they're "evil."

    23. Re:Obviously by mcubed · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you were truly taking a principled stand, you would stop listening to the music altogether.

      Can't speak for the poster of the grandparent, but why would you need to stop listening to the music altogether? I haven't bought a major-label CD new since 2001. The last ML CD I bought new was Depeche Mode's "Exciter" (which, as it turned out, wasn't very...). Since, I've bought some indie label CDs new, but mostly I buy all CDs used. Neither the labels nor the artists who support them get any cut from those purchases, I still get to enjoy the music, can compress the audio to my own standards (rather than those imposed by some music service), and it's legal and cheaper than DRM'ed rip-offs like iTMS.

      Plus, I like to shop local. I learned that lesson on 9/12/01, in New York City, when all the big box chains were closed and the only stores in my neighborhood that were open were the locally owned mom-&-pop's. Once in a while, I buy something on-line, if it's something I've been looking for and it's available at a good price. But most locations have at least one decent used record store and unless you're exceedingly picky or have fairly limited music preferences, you can usually find lots of good stuff to choose from.

      Michael

      --
      "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality;..."
    24. Re:Obviously by deimtee · · Score: 1
      If we've got a problem with filesharing, wait until someone figures out a way to make a home-fabrication machine the size of a car that can produce anything a machinist can. ;)


      You mean like this thing: http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm? story_id=3786368
      --
      I'm guessing that wasn't on their radar screen...
    25. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's like saying if Rosa Parks were truly taking a principled stand she would have walked instead of stepping on the bus in the first place. When your principles are in conflict with the law, the only principled action is to knowingly break the law. How convenient that your interpretation of principles ensures that corporate profits aren't threatened.

      Down with the RIAA! Down with copyright!

    26. Re:Obviously by goldspider · · Score: 1

      That's fine; I hope you stand by those principles by not downloading or listening to anything that's RIAA-owned. I suspect, however, that you don't.

      It's easy to make excuses for not standing by one's principles when hidden by relative anonymity. I can't imagine you'd make such a brazen statement here if your real name and addressed accompanied your post.

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    27. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > This is a rear-guard action while the big companies work on new business plan.

      The way I see it, suing file sharers IS their new business model. They're getting more than enough money from it to pay for the loss.

    28. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copyright was always for the profitable production of various works; works being vynle records, tape casetts, music rolls, ect.

      I'm not normally one to criticize people on mistakes of spelling or grammar in their Slashdot posts, but I think you deserve it for the sentence above.

    29. Re:Obviously by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 0

      "If you were truly taking a principled stand, you would stop listening to the music altogether. It seems like you are trying to justify knowingly breaking the law with the reason "I like it." Interesting principled stand: "But I like it...."

      If everybody had made that move, iTunes wouldn't be around today.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    30. Re:Obviously by Ibag · · Score: 1

      "I don't buy from Walmart, I don't buy music from the RIAA, and I don't buy ten year old girls from the local human trafficker."

      Like your music, you get your ten year old girls for free online?

    31. Re:Obviously by Jesselnz · · Score: 1

      Does anyone know if there's an accurate list of labels that are members of the RIAA? The list on their site has the name of every label they could find, including independent ones.

    32. Re:Obviously by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I was right with you up 'til the ten year olds. I mean, you gotta leave a guy some vices.

      Seriously though, relatively few people that I know (and many of those are engineers and professional people of one sort or another who you'd think would know better) have even heard of the RIAA. When I attempt to talk about the subject, I get a. a blank stare or b. "but they gotta protect the artists!" or c. "who cares." All they know is that there are a bunch of companies called "studios" and that, somehow, "studio recordings" end up on shiny plastic discs that they can buy at the store.

      The way I see it, the vast majority of music consumers are just completely ignorant of the issues. The RIAA stayed out of the limelight for decade after decade, and only came out because of Napster. Even so, they are being are more successful in their propaganda campaign than people like you and me are at educating people about the music industry's many ills.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    33. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As of March, '04:
      "The RIAA has sued a total of 1,977 individuals and has settled with over 400 who paid fines averaging $3,000."

      http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/paper660/news/2 004/03/25/News/Riaa-Continues.FileSharing.Lawsuits -641107.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobse rver.com

      Hmmm... That would be $1.2M before paying their own lawyers. Not much of a business plan. That wouldn't cover Metallica's bar tab.

    34. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (which, as it turned out, wasn't very...)

      That album gets no love. I personally loved it. Ah well....

    35. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I learned that lesson on 9/12/01,
      please refrain from writing dates in such a retarded fashion. i have no idea what day you're talking about, was it 1 day after the september 11 attacks? was it 16 days before christmas? nobody can tell since you americans always have to have your own fucking way of doing things, incompatible with the rest of the world.

      for future reference 9-dec-01 (or 12-sept-01) or 2001-12-09 (or 2001-09-12) will prevent such confusion. you wouldnt write the time MM:SS:HH, why do you fuck up the date?

    36. Re:Obviously by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Their sales going up to the point they want them?


      Huh? They want sales as high as possible...no matter how much money they make, it's "obvious" that the companies could make more were users not participating in pirate networks.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    37. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because if we didn't it'd prove that we're conformist communists who hate America. You must be new here.

    38. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I don't buy from Walmart, I don't buy music from the RIAA, and I don't buy ten year old girls from the local human trafficker.

      So do I.
      I very much prefer offshore outsourcing.

    39. Re:Obviously by latroM · · Score: 1

      However, I can't buy msuic from them on principal.

      I wouldn't buy anything on principal, on principle, that is other story

    40. Re:Obviously by cffrost · · Score: 1

      "[...] they were forced to sue to keep the idea that downloading music is wrong in peoples heads. This is a rear-guard action while the big companies work on new business plan."

      Record companies have been wrong in my head ever since I bought my first ten-cent CD with its 18,000% markup. Meanwhile, the price of more costly (to manufacture) cassette tapes didn't change during/after the tape-CD transition. This blatent price gouging persists some 20 years later.

      Combined with suing children, their single moms and their grandparents, these are the "wrongest" pieces of shit walking the planet.

      From the day I downloaded my first MP3 a decade ago, I promised myself I'd never fund these bastards again. They can stick their new business model, whatever it may be, up their asses. Some other misguided "morally conscientious" loser will pay them on my behalf.

      So, RIAA... Payback is a bitch, is it not?

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    41. Re:Obviously by mcubed · · Score: 1

      i have no idea what day you're talking about, was it 1 day after the september 11 attacks? was it 16 days before christmas? nobody can tell since you americans always have to have your own fucking way of doing things, incompatible with the rest of the world.

      That's funny because I can parse it whether it's written 9/12/01 or 12-sept-01 or 2001-09-12. I guess Americans are just smarter than everybody else. (Although, for the record, I was born in the U.K. and have lived in the U.S. most of my life. It's better here.)

      Michael

      --
      "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality;..."
    42. Re:Obviously by acariquara · · Score: 1
      I don't buy from Walmart, I don't buy music from the RIAA, and I don't buy ten year old girls from the local human trafficker.

      So, what you are saying is that you're an informed customer and buy wholesale instead of retail. Good.

      /ducks
      --
      Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
    43. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will never declare this war as won. They may from time to time claim that a strategy (like sueing everybody and his dog) a limited success, but if they ever claim victory, why should congress sell them stricter laws? Currently and in the near future, there's more to gain for them in whining about the alleged losses than in doing anything reasonable.

    44. Re:Obviously by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      Combined with suing children, their single moms and their grandparents, these are the "wrongest" pieces of shit walking the planet.

      because breaking the law is alright if you are a child?

      I think what you really mean to say is that from the day you realized that you could get the music for free, you decided it was cheaper to go that way than buy the music you like.

      can you believe that some people thought CD's were worth 18 dollars a pop because of the incredible leap in sound quality and ease of transport they offered. I mean, that is why I thought they cost more, because you were getting so much more.
      I Just find it humorous you defend your actions by something the companies did after you started breaking the law(long after, in fact).

    45. Re:Obviously by CWRUisTakingMyMoney · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't buy blankets from the online Al-qaeda shop

      Ah, but if you did go to Kabul and do just that, would have a visted an......Afghanistan Afghan stand?
      [ducks]

      --
      Those who anthropomorphize science and/or nature already believe in an intelligent designer.
    46. Re:Obviously by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      Where is there anything in the grandparent's post indicating that he's breaking any laws? All he said is that he's not buying music that he otherwise likes on principle -- nothing in his post indicates that he is obtaining said music in any other way (except possibly by listening to the radio etc., which is perfectly legal).

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
    47. Re:Obviously by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I've often felt it would make more sense to lobby for some smaller fine along the lines of a parking ticket - $100, say - and find some means to make it easy for the file sharers to be fined, with a fairly simple procedure for dealing with false accusations. (Yes, I know this is vague, but I only put it forward as a starting point for discussion).

      The result would be a reasonable deterrent for file sharers and the record industry looking less like villians, since they'd only be trying to wrest an easily payable amount from people rather than several thousand dollars,

    48. Re:Obviously by cffrost · · Score: 1

      because breaking the law is alright if you are a child?

      "Alright?" Well, not in my opinion, but you need to make up your own mind about that. I can't answer that for you.

      I think what you really mean to say is that from the day you realized that you could get the music for free, you decided it was cheaper to go that way than buy the music you like.

      It's cheaper? No shit Einstein. You get a B+ and a gold sticker for reading comprehension.

      can you believe that some people thought CD's were worth 18 dollars a pop because of the incredible leap in sound quality and ease of transport they offered. I mean, that is why I thought they cost more, because you were getting so much more.

      "'Incredible leap' in sound quality..." Over what, tapes? CDs are 20 years old. The "wow" factor is a tad stale. By your logic, recording technology a century from now will rightly cost a month's salary per recording.

      I Just find it humorous you defend your actions by something the companies did after you started breaking the law(long after, in fact).

      The companies started charging more for CDs than tapes long after I downloaded my first MP3? Huh. I'm not sure if you're joking, just wasting our time, or you're an imbecil, but your arbitrary use of punctuation and capitalization suggests the latter.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    49. Re:Obviously by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      I agreed with you until you said "or 2001-12-09 (or 2001-09-12)". Without already knowing that we're taling about the 12th of September, I'd have no idea if you were talking about december or september unless you gave me a contextual clue.

      Next to stardate, 12 Sep 01 is clearly the best format. 2001-09-12 is just arbitrarily repositioning them so it's YEAR-MONTH-DAY instead of MONTH/DAY/YEAR(OPTIONAL).

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    50. Re:Obviously by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      well, here is a timeline for you:

      You start downloading MP3's

      record companies start taking legal action against anyone violating their copyrights

      you call them the wrongest pieces of shit on the planet who you will not fund

      you then use this decision to validate your breaking of the law

      So, to clarify my eariler points, my first question was rhetorical. I guess that just flew over your head. Or were you trying to me me sound stupid by feigning ignorance of that? I'm guessing the latter.

      and just so you know, CD's haven't stayed the same price(in real terms, the only terms that matter). Equivalently, The 15-18 dollar CD you can buy today is equal to the same CD costing about 10 dollars back in 1985. So I guess prices have cut about in half as back then, CD's were over 20 dollars. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to realize this. It happens when you blindly complain about something in order to justify what you are doing.

      The real question is why can't you admit you just prefer to get the music you like for free(illegally) rather than paying for it. You get pissed about how the free market works and then decide to break the law. There are loads of bands that put music up for free but you seem to have one goal, to get pissed off at other people who are willing to pay that much and keep the price of CD's up. Of course, a great example of the market working was the decrease in CD prices that have occurred in the last 2 years. What price would be good for you? 10 dollars(Itunes fills that need)? 5 dollars? The ten cents you seem to believe is the only expense a record company has?

    51. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, 2001-09-12 is the ISO standard date format. It's superior because it's unambiguous in all languages and reads left to right from most to least significant digit. This allows dates to be sorted trivially.

    52. Re:Obviously by den479 · · Score: 1

      Some people realize that there is more to art than making money. True artists only care that their art is appreciated. The people that are worried about the "lost money" are the corporate exec's who have nothing to contribute but their money gathering skills. http://www.baen.com/library/

    53. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Soviet Russia, date fucks you up.

      (entendre inside.)

    54. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1/3/05

      what day of which month am i talking about?

    55. Re:Obviously by radu124 · · Score: 1

      I this what you call free market?

      http://www.boycott-riaa.com/why

    56. Re:Obviously by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      yes. but as I have said on other posts before, if you like an artist that chose to sign with the big labels, there is no reason to not follow the law and buy their CD(if it is worth the money to you, it isn't to me).

    57. Re:Obviously by radu124 · · Score: 1

      The point was that the artists were coerced into signing with the big labels, and of the $10 or $20 that you are paying for a CD only 10% goes to the artist.

    58. Re:Obviously by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      no, they weren't coerced. The artists decided that they wanted access to the massive marketting abilities of hte big labels and thought the price was worth it. Few people can afford to market themselves on a large scale and some want to be more than a local underground band for good.

      I actually now know 4 bands personally that have been approached to sign with the labels. 3 decided to not do it and one broke up before anything came of it. Those that rejected it did so because they thought it wasn't a lucrative enough deal and that they coudl do better on their own. Another classic example of a person holding out for a better contract is MC Hammer, who at first rejected the label offer because he saw he could make a great deal more selling tapes out of his trunk after he performed. So don't go giving a BS sob story; if you want to blame anyone for the contracts, blame those artists who are greedy enough for hte big bucks to sign away their fans. The recording label is like drugs. It would go away if artists had the strength of will to make it happen.

      Or do you think that only the big labels are interested in the profit and the artist only cares about the music? because then you are just deluded. Yes, they care about hte music, but money is a big factor in their decisions. Or do you think it is just a coincidence that those artists who have become successful see piracy as a bad thing(not all, but a great many of them).

    59. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so smart you dont have to balls to admit you've been caught out. 1/3/05. parse it motherfucker.

  2. Covenants by mfh · · Score: 1

    Covenants must benefit all people, or they are simple applications of oppression from one group to another. Freedom to download is the cornerstone of the internet (right or wrong). That's why so many great bands are joining the clue train!

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Covenants by gregbains · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wouldn't mind paying if the money went to the artist, and it was a decent price, but I'm sorry £9.99 for an album, of which the artist gets £1 (if that), it doesn't seem right. Until they sort out the corruption then I will not be doing business with them.

    2. Re:Covenants by drakewyrm · · Score: 1
      £9.99 for an album, of which the artist gets £1

      I think you may be overestimating the portion which goes to the artist. Bear in mind that, in the modern entertainment industry, artists are equivalent to factory workers.

      Of the price of that t-shirt you're wearing, how much do you think went to the person who did the sewing or the person who operated the machine which rendered whatever witty, misanthropic, or corporate meme graces the front of it?

      --
      Batou: Hey, Major... You ever hear of "human rights"? Major: I understand the concept, but I've never seen it in action
    3. Re:Covenants by Stoutlimb · · Score: 1

      I wonder how many people 40 and older just wouldn't understand a world where it's free to copy music for non-commercial use.

      Would people stop making music? Never!
      Would artists starve or be deprived of money? Not if they're willing to perform live.
      Wouldn't it change the face of music? No superstars will still have huge concerts.
      Would music cease to be distributed? No, that's what we have the internet for.
      Would it harm our economy by destroying the music industry? No, the loss of the music distribution industry would be offset by the money people save by not paying $20 per CD. In fact it would be a net economic gain, as music execs would have to get real jobs, and stop leeching off their monopoly.

      I can't wait for society to change our covenant. I fear that it's so entrenched though, that I won't see it in my lifetime, and I'm only 30. I've tried explaining this to old farts who never download music, but anyone who's grown up with vinyl LP's just doesn't understand. Here in Canada we have an election going on, and I'm absolutely positive that none of the candidates have even the remotest clue.

      That's my opinion.

      Bork!

    4. Re:Covenants by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't mind paying if the money went to the artist, and it was a decent price, but I'm sorry £9.99 for an album, of which the artist gets £1 (if that), it doesn't seem right. Until they sort out the corruption then I will not be doing business with them.

      Which is fine. It's somewhat self-contradictory to say "I don't like how you're getting screwed, so I'm going to solve that by screwing you out of the tiny cut as well". The marketing argument is bullshit. It is like saying that stealing a candy bar is right, as long as you tell all your friends how good it is so they buy it.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Covenants by holt · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that the person who runs the sewing machines is closer to the person that runs the CD duplication machines than the artist. The clothes-industry equivalent to the artists would be the people who design the shirts.

    6. Re:Covenants by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      you realize it is always a net economic gain in the short run to destroy all barriers to entry(you're effective end to copyright on music). It would be like saying all software should be free. It's a stupid idea to force your will on anyone. There are artists that only make money performing and there are artists that want to charge people 16 or 20 bucks a CD. If you like the artist who wants to distribute his music for 20 bucks a cd, then make your choice.

      of course, the face of music would change completely. Would music still be around, yes. would it be anything like it has been for the last 200 or so years, no.

    7. Re:Covenants by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      "you realize it is always a net economic gain in the short run to destroy all barriers to entry(you're effective end to copyright on music)."

      He was actually proposing an end to restrictions on the _non-commercial_ copying of recorded performances. This is _not_ the same as ending copyrights on music.

      "It would be like saying all software should be free."

      No, it would not. The act of running a program is _always_ effectively a recorded performance (albeit an interactive one) -- programmers do not have the option of reciting code from a print-out to packed houses (One night only: Linus Torvalds and guests will be reading code from the Linux kernel. Book now!).

      "There are artists that only make money performing and there are artists that want to charge people 16 or 20 bucks a CD."

      Them wanting to charge a certain price for something is _not_ the same as convincing consumers to pay that price. Technology gave the recording industry a magical century during which they could make large sums of money from distributing a single musical performance over and over again. Now, technology has bypassed that business model, just like radio, records, and movie technology bypassed the previously lucrative music hall / vaudeville business model, and movie sound ruined the careers of many silent stars whose voices weren't "right", and television came along and changed the landscape again, and... Yet every one of these changes (each of which caused much wailing and gnashing of teeth from entrenched interests) ended up generating vast sums of money for the industry as a whole. But the people making fortunes from new, ground-breaking technologies were often not the same people who had made fortunes from whatever got replaced, because far too many of those clung to the deck of a sinking ship until it disappeared below the waves.

      New entertainment technologies have always offered huge money making opportunities to those with the vision to see ways to take advantage of them, but they have a notable penchant for laying waste to anyone who tries to cling to old ways of doing things, irrespective of how much money and power they have, and who they can buy.

      "of course, the face of music would change completely."

      It would indeed. But then it's changed completely many times in the past due to the influences of new and different technologies, and it will do so again many times in the future. And there will be both visionaries who make huge fortunes from embracing those changes, and those who lose what fortunes they had because they thought that laws, publicity campaigns, and daft restrictions on the technology itself would allow them to pretend that nothing had really changed at all.

      "Would music still be around, yes. would it be anything like it has been for the last 200 or so years, no."

      The first commercial recordings were actually made a little less than 120 years ago, but this is irrelevant to your central point...

      Music is already nothing like it has been over the majority of the mainstream recording industry's history due to the fact that video, which started out as a marketing tool for music, has now become the dominant medium, often relegating the music itself to a more or less throwaway backing track for what amounts to soft porn for the recently post-pubescent. It has now reached the stage where a Janis Joplin or Louis Armstrong would not stand a chance in that industry because they aren't "videogenic" enough, while a musically inept Kate Moss type would get a lucrative contract, massive promotion, instant stardom, and an almost equally instant slide into total obscurity after a couple of years.

      So while it may change, it is hard to imagine a situation that could be worse than one where the general level of music being offered to consumers is so bad that a stupid frog ring-tone backed by a not-very-wonderful rendition of the theme from an old Eddie Murphy film can reach number one in the charts of several countries.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
    8. Re:Covenants by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      My point about pricing was not whether or not the market would support it. My point was, just becuase someone charges a lot for something you like doesn't make it alright to break the law(especially if you believe copyright law should be respected).

      If an artists charges 20 dollars for a CD and nobody buys it, too bad. That poor fuck wasn't good enough. But a prime example is a band that I love. I was introduced to the eagles when I was in middle school and loved the music. But I never bought a CD because I thought the 40 dollars 2-CD set was too much. It didn't mean I went home and started downloading the CDs left and right. I went without it. After a time, I was able to find a CD at a reasonable price(online) and bought it.

      I still feel my sotware analogy is viable. Engineers had a magical century where they could make things on these new fangled machines called computers and freely copy and distribute it. But it is over. People now have near infinite storage and can copy their own versions of software. Obviously, those programmers who expect to just sit around and collect royalties on something they did years ago are just out of date. It is the same argument because of course, if we got rid of charging for software, it would still be needed and therefore, boutique software firms would spring up. It would just be different than the program once, collect earnings till infinity model we have now.

      I Don't actually support such a model, but it could exist even if we got rid of all copyright on software code as well. It happens to be a lot of people make music to earn money off of it by distribution to non-commercial entities(just like software). IF you don't like the law, work to change it. I hate when people compare themselves to the civil rights movement because it isn't the passive resistance. It is hiding in a corner so no one can see you and making yourself believe you are resisting the "man". but that is a different complaint entirely.

    9. Re:Covenants by bhiestand · · Score: 1
      It is like saying that stealing a candy bar is right, as long as you tell all your friends how good it is so they buy it.

      Not at all. It's like saying you made your own candy bar at home after seeing the candy bar your friend purchased in the store. Loss of a possible sale != actually STEALING something from somebody. In the former, a company fails to make a profit they had hoped to make. In the latter, a company loses physical posession of something which cost them money to produce, ship, design, and stock.

      To reiterate, we're talking actual losses versus perceived, theoretical "losses".

      Imagine if I were to whistle at an attractive prostitute, which would lead her to believe she's going to make a sale. Hell, I even ogle her! But then I go home and sleep with my girlfriend. Should the prostitue sue me? Sure, if I raped her or didn't pay her for it, but if I never slept with her? What if I went home and masturbated to her image?

      Speaking of which, if you promise to pay a prostitute, but don't, what crime is it, exactly? Assuming prostitution is legal, of course...
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    10. Re:Covenants by mpe · · Score: 1

      I wonder how many people 40 and older just wouldn't understand a world where it's free to copy music for non-commercial use.

      Would people stop making music? Never!


      People have been making music for thousands of years before the idea of copyright was though of at all.

      Would artists starve or be deprived of money? Not if they're willing to perform live.

      Or they had a "day job". Performing only in the day Monday-Friday would tend to exclude many potential audiance members.

      Wouldn't it change the face of music? No superstars will still have huge concerts.

      Some of the names might change.

      Would music cease to be distributed? No, that's what we have the internet for.

      As well as physical media.

    11. Re:Covenants by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      "My point about pricing was not whether or not the market would support it. My point was, just becuase someone charges a lot for something you like doesn't make it alright to break the law"

      If enough of a population which is subject to a law believes that said law is unjust, then breaking it in large numbers is a historically valid way of getting it changed. Many people (myself included, and I have been both a professional musician and professional software developer) believe that copyright laws have been progressively manipulated over the years until consumer rights have become virtually non-existent. Whenever some big corporation's property is at the point of passing into the public domain, they pay political shills to increase the copyright period, until we have reached a point where the original 20 years has been extended until nothing that is released today is likely to enter the public domain in either the life time of anybody old enough to read this, or the life time of any children they may have. The music industry complained about home taping until they got levies placed on blank tapes, yet they still maintain the right to prosecute people who use those tapes to distribute the copyrighted materials that they already paid to do with the levy; ditto for blank CDs; they complained about home copying via the Internet until what was a civil offence became a criminal one, thereby getting tax payers (i.e. everyone) to bear the cost of protecting their materials. And this isn't anything like an exhaustive list of the media industry's abuses of consumers (DMCA!).

      Something needs to be done to bring things back into balance, and if breaking the current laws in numbers sufficient to make enforcing them both impractical and massively unpopular is the only way to do this, then so be it.

      "I still feel my sotware analogy is viable."

      I don't. I will list three ways that software differs from music / movies / whatever; there are many others, but space precludes an exhaustive list:

      1. Computer software _requires_ a computer to run, whereas music or movies _can_ be played on a computer.
      2. Software governs the way a computer behaves, and this behaviour can obviously include a variety of protection measures and incentives which help to ensure that people pay the vendor. Software vendors therefore take advantage of copyright laws because they are there, but they do not require them to protect their income.
      3. The analogue output from music or movies _is_ the product, because its intended target is the senses of a human being, and those senses are analogue. Computer software on the other hand _may_ have some sort of human-percievable analogue output, but it is by no means a requirement: OS kernels, network and storage drivers, and the collection of programs that operate most of the Internet are all examples of software that most computer users don't even know is there because their I/O is not intended for human senses. Music and movies will thus remain copyable irrespective of any technological measures that are applied to the source signal by the simple expedient of recording the final output that is intended for our ears and eyes.

      "if we got rid of charging for software"

      As I said in one of my earlier posts, the original poster was advocating and end to _legal_ restrictions on _non-commercial copying_. This is _not_ the same as getting rid of charging for software or anything else.

      "IF you don't like the law, work to change it."

      History contains many examples where mass breaking of unpopular laws and the consequent jury nullification that resulted from it led to those laws being repealed or modified in ways that the populace was willing to accept. This tends to happen when it is the only form of effective protest that people have, which I would argue is the case with this situation, as sending letters or standing around waving placards will not have anything like as big an effect on politicians as fat bribe from a media industry "lobby group", with the promise of

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
    12. Re:Covenants by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      I call bullshit. every other time in history passive resistance was done out in the open to show that people were willing to fully take whatever consequences people would throw at them because they had the strength of will to do so. just breaking the law and trying to hide so you don't face them just makes a regular criminal. Actually trying to effect change in laws comes with sacrifice. The companies are putting their shareholder's money on the line to get laws changed in their favor. so you have two options, fight them on the same terms or open and directed civil disobedience. rather, you just give them more ammunition because you lack the fortitude to stand by your principles. so give me an example where the resistance wasn't open and fought by sacrifice. You may try to use the boston Tea party as an example, but it would be a terrible use of it because everyone(those who made decisions) knew it was the colonists who did it and further, it was one part of a very open struggle. Unlike yourself(if you are one of these people), those colonists openly had to defy the authority. Do you think that taxes were some form of anonymous payment that they were refusing(though there aren't many examples of people in that time refusing to pay taxes).

      as to the software analogy:
      As you have pointed out differences, I will extend your same argument. hwo about an end to restrictions with non-commercial use of software? or even better, an end to any restrictions on non-commercial software whose output is directly an input of a person? Take a video game for example. Similar to a DVD, it requires a machine that reads it's code. That may be a computer or a video game system, but the output is the same(working emulators prove a great deal of software is not restricted to one medium). Why shouldn't non-commercial legal restrictions be removed from that? if fits your definition.

      Of course, you can make other arguments, but in the end, most software is in a very similar class to movies/music. A great deal is made with the purpose of marketting it to a non-commercial entity. Most music, especially today, falls into that category. Just because for the first time today there are multiple platforms that can play the same music doesn't make it different from software. Especially since a great deal of software can be run on multiple platforms.

      of course, I wonder why you think an end to legal restrictions isn't an end to copyright but I realize your position now. There would still be a commercial sector that would have to pay(for those people who make copyrighted material and expect the commercial sectors to use it).

  3. Makes perfect sense to me... by balloot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The people who get nailed in court for file-sharing seem very remote. It just doesn't seem like a file-sharing conviction will ever affect "normal" people who just use Limewire every so often when they need something. These people make up 99% of the file-sharing population.

    1. Re:Makes perfect sense to me... by mboverload · · Score: 1

      With the number of online filesharers versus people sued, your odds are pretty much right up there with winning the lotto.

    2. Re:Makes perfect sense to me... by bladernr · · Score: 1
      With the number of online filesharers versus people sued, your odds are pretty much right up there with winning the lotto.

      Except the whiners that get caught claim they are unfairly targeted, why me, etc, etc, rather that just stepping up and saying "I gambled; I lost."

      --
      Sarcasm and hyperbole are the final refuges for weak minds
    3. Re:Makes perfect sense to me... by Yartrebo · · Score: 1

      A better example would be office workers and terrorists. Workers take a risk every day that a place might come crashing down and kill them on the spot.

      Now if a plane does come crashing down and they somehow survive but missing a few limbs, are they whiners for not saying "I gambled, I lost" or are the terrorists at fault for firing airplane-missiles at office buildings?

      The way I see it, file sharing is right to do (socially beneficial and without causing any legitimate harm or violating anyones legitimate rights), so someone crusading against it would qualify as a bad guy. That the courts and Congress are controlled by them is proof of corruption and no more.

    4. Re:Makes perfect sense to me... by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      what you really mean to say is that because the US has always had laws creating intellectual property that the entire country is based on flawed principles and founded by "bad guys" who crusaded against it.

      the laws establishing intellectual property have been around for hundreds of years. outside of those laws against committing personal harm and the such, these stand as some of the first laws ever written.

      I mean, personally, I don't see any reason why I can't go to a wal mart and take 6 or 7 bars of candy. It doesn't cause any legitimate harm to anyone and doesn't violate anyone's legitimate rights(at least, none of the rights I have decided to arbitrarily respect). but the laws don't agree with me.

  4. O RLY? by RandomPrecision · · Score: 1

    I would have thought with the high standards employed by the RIAA in its lawsuits, it would intimidate anyone out of file-sharing.

  5. Spin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    True, the level has stayed the same .. but perhaps without the lawsuits and FUD campaign the amount of file sharing would have grown?

    The number of users of iTunes and iPods music devices has increased, why hasnt the level of file sharing? Seems either lawsuits worked, or people prefer convenience of using the itunes store. I dont think it's healthy for the lawsuit factor should be blindly dismissed as ineffective.

    The point I actually want to make is we have to be objective and have to know where the threats are. After all, no point in ignoring something that might be true. Maybe counter FUD is needed, or better file sharing methods?

    1. Re:Spin by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      Plus, there is the fact that the settlements take money from people who legally should've paid and give it to the people who legally should've been paid. Isn't that the purpose of the civil legal system? To counteract the economic effects of illegal activity? They do accomplish that.

    2. Re:Spin by MushMouth · · Score: 1

      It's unlikely that the settlements received pay anything more than the legal costs of extracting them.

    3. Re:Spin by Stan+Vassilev · · Score: 1

      "True, the level has stayed the same .. but perhaps without the lawsuits and FUD campaign the amount of file sharing would have grown?"

      I'd say it's sound to stay away from conclusions with a lot of "maybe", "perhaps" and "what if" in them.
      Even the mighty RIAA doesn't have magic future vision to back any of this.

    4. Re:Spin by zionwillnotfall · · Score: 1

      even though the number of ipods sold has grown, apple has done an exceptional job of converting ipod owners into itunes customers. im willing to guess that the vast majority of people who purchase ipods get most of their music from itunes.

    5. Re:Spin by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      I"m not sure about if it's true or not, but at least in the college age population, that doesn't hold. I know a single user of Itunes who has more legally downloaded music than illegally downloaded music. It's usually more like a 1-300 ratio if anything(adn I would credit the pepsi 1000000 free downloads for that). That one person I do know is extremely moral and does not believe in breaking any laws in a country. I would bet that most of hte people who get ipods get most of htere music from a very vast collection they already gathered.

    6. Re:Spin by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      This is nothing new. When I was a teenager back in the 1970s, I would pool my meagre resources with those of some friends to buy a vinyl album which the person with access to the best stereo would then record on cassettes for all the others. Note though that we only bought the album if there was nobody around with a decent tape of it that could be traded for a recording of something one of us had, so we'd have quite happily used torrents or whatever if they'd been available to us.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
  6. They sure taught me a lesson! by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm taking my w4r3z back to Usenet and IRC, where it's safe.

    1. Re:They sure taught me a lesson! by c4ffeine · · Score: 1

      Ssh! Don't tell them about usenet or IRC! They still haven't figured it out by themselves!

      --
      "73% of quotes on the Internet are made up" -Ben Franklin
  7. Interesting Junction of Stories by cbs4385 · · Score: 0

    Mr Kennedy also warned that the music industry could sue internet service providers (ISPs) if they do not crack down on their customers who flout copyright rules.

    I wonder what will happen when this and the interest the US Government is showing in the content of what people are looking at (here and here) and Bell South's interest in looking at the destination of your packets and no longer acting as a pipe intersect.

  8. You mean... by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. People don't think that it's a big risk if there's a 1 in 100,000 chance they'll be the next one sued (especially if they don't swap too much).

    2. Suing people tends to piss them off, making them less likely to buy from you.

  9. Other conclusions? by RonnyJ · · Score: 4, Informative

    Court Action Does Not Reduce File-Sharing

    You can also interpret the data another way from this, if you so desire:

    35% of illegal file-sharers have cut back*
    14% of illegal file sharers have increased activity*

    *Jupiter survey of 3,000 people in UK, Germany and Spain

    1. Re:Other conclusions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somewhere on this earth, every ten seconds, a woman gives birth to a child.



      We must find this woman, and stop her.

  10. What the people want by Eightyford · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well I think it's obvious what the people want, and that's less strict copyright laws. I'm pretty sure democracy is not about who has the richest lobbyists, so the RIAA can kiss my ass.

    1. Re:What the people want by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Though I want less strict copyright laws myself, I would be VERY cautious about wanting democracy in its purest form - the "people" taking by force whatever they want. The "people" don't tend to think things through, and having a republic slows things down enough so that an actual thought process can happen.

    2. Re:What the people want by the-amazing-blob · · Score: 1

      New here? :D

    3. Re:What the people want by kurth · · Score: 1

      I think that this a a classic example of "what goes around comes around" saying.

      Remember how much it really costs to produce a CD. Now think of how much you pay, and that even after you buy it, because of copy protection you might not be able to get it on your girlfriend's ipod. Now that I can download almost any song, any album and any music video I want makes up for the years of looking at CD's in the record store and not having enough to buy one. At 13 anything more then 10 dollars was out of my price range.

      Music is art. Artists in it for money (sellouts) don't last. I feel that art should be free. Sure, the artists need money, I understand that, however, artists make thier money from touring and endorsments.

      Personally, I don't have to REALLY worry. I love Ubernet. (Google it)

    4. Re:What the people want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Stop it! You just made me squirt milk out my nose!

      Are you honestly saying that the US Congress allows a thought process to happen? Those fools on the hill "think" with their wallets and egos the way Quagmire thinks with his divining rod.

    5. Re:What the people want by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 1

      Actually, no, I didn't say that. I was arguing the benefits of a republic versus that of a democracy, not the benefits of the current regime.

    6. Re:What the people want by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      Artists in it for money (sellouts) don't last

      one: how do you know if an artists is in it for the money? how they act, perhaps?
      two: every wonder about the artists that can't tour except locally? Even worse, lots of artists don't have a concentrated fan group to tour around near. What about those artists that don't have enough fans in one area but have a lot across a wide range of areas.
      three: Those artists who aren't very entertaining on a stage and are really only about the music and making a living off of it, where do you expect them to make there money?
      four: law says you can't give it to your girlfriend so quit complaining about the copy protection when you are trying to break the law. That is why they created the copy protection so it is obviously working
      five: you aren't 13 anymore and now have the money to get all the music and music videos you want legally. so why not? or is it you feel you deserve it for free now because you couldn't save up the money to buy the music when you were a child? I could. it took a few weeks but it was definitely possible. and if 10 dollar was possible at one time, you had the option of waiting till that next 10 dollars became available

  11. Re:Once a thief by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, those kids who steal cookies, comic books, and CDs always grow up and get involved in armed robberies.

  12. Lawsuits don't stop filesharing by Foofoobar · · Score: 4, Funny

    And a resounding DUH rang round the world.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    1. Re:Lawsuits don't stop filesharing by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate to agree with "The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries," but if filesharing has leveled off, I think it's reasonable to say that the suing is having some effect. Without some threat, I think free on-demand movie downloading would be spreading like wildfire, not leveling off.

    2. Re:Lawsuits don't stop filesharing by DrEldarion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      if filesharing has leveled off, I think it's reasonable to say that the suing is having some effect.

      Not necessarily. There are loads of other factors out there, like the growth in popularity of pay-for-download sites and the like.

    3. Re:Lawsuits don't stop filesharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the fact that, e.g., I and my peers find the current "creative" output of the old guard pretty grim. I have no _ethical_ problems with illegally obtaining or redistributing copyrighted information, despite the illegality of such an act. Illegal doesn't mean wrong.

      I just don't, though, because 99.999% of what's out there is shite. The stuff I actually _want_ e.g. linux, is available openly to me anyway.

    4. Re:Lawsuits don't stop filesharing by AoT · · Score: 1

      And bandwidth limits.

      And hard drive space.

      I just don't have room for more stuff these days.

    5. Re:Lawsuits don't stop filesharing by AlterTick · · Score: 1
      And bandwidth limits.

      And hard drive space.

      Not to mention the decline in music quality.

      Why download the latest top 40 "hit" when you have last year's top 40 "hit" that sounds the same.

      Hell, sometimes it is the same. Listen to a top 40 radio station for 30 minutes and I guarantee you'll hear something at least three years old... probably by Green Day.

      --
      Conclusion: the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Accept it.
    6. Re:Lawsuits don't stop filesharing by donak · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that developments in filesharing programs mean they probably aren't even seeing the tip of the iceberg anymore.

      What they probably "measured" was the "tip of the tip", those users too uncaring to get off server based sharing, or not aware that there are fileshare programs that don't have a centralised server, but simply connect peer-to-peer.

      So IFPI are patting themselves on the back, feeling all self-congratulatory ... and don't even know the current extent of file-sharing, because they can't.

      As for movies : DVD drives have recently taken off (locally here in this part of the world) why use filesharing, when you can rent a DVD and burn a copy?

      --
      Don't blame me, it's usually 2 in the morning when I post ...
  13. Sometimes "misunderstood" by mendaliv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I find the last paragraph of the article mildly amusing:
    [Mr. Kennedy] said DRM was a "sometimes misunderstood element of the digital music business".

    I wonder if he knows who is misunderstanding it...

    1. Re:Sometimes "misunderstood" by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 1

      Nah. It's just that they weren't expecting people to catch on and get riled up, so the *AA has to try to convince people that they've "misunderstood" and that DRM is a "good thing". And for the most part, they were probably right...I meet few people outside of the Outer Geek Circle who know what it is. Still, look forward to seeing Billy the Jolly DRM Chipmunk on TV.

    2. Re:Sometimes "misunderstood" by britneys+9th+husband · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, and Mr. bin Laden probably said that terrorist attacks are a "sometimes misunderstood element of the business of international politics".

      --
      Hear recorded Slashdot headlines on your phone! New service beta testing. Just call (248) 434-5508
    3. Re:Sometimes "misunderstood" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Even if it sucks to be on the receiving end.

    4. Re:Sometimes "misunderstood" by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      I mean, according to the british, George Washington was a terrorist. So we should always keep our perspective. history is written by the current winner.

    5. Re:Sometimes "misunderstood" by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      And rather interestingly, the American revolutionaries had a lot more success when they used what we now call asymmetric warfare against the British than they did trying to slug it out with them on the battlefield.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
  14. Re:Once a thief by merreborn · · Score: 2, Informative

    good thing copyright violation and theft are different things entirely.

  15. Don't forget to crank up the phonograph by VampireByte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They are called The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries? Wow, that explains the ancient mindset of the music industry. Imagine the automotive industry still refering to themselves as horseless carriage manufactures!

    --

    Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.

    1. Re:Don't forget to crank up the phonograph by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 1

      Yeah, a friend of mine at the Electric Slide Rule and Graphical Telegraph Society pointed that out last week.

    2. Re:Don't forget to crank up the phonograph by monopole · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe if we disclose the existence of group to Bush he'll misinterpret the word and declare a war on phonography! We just have to convince him that DRM is related to WMDs

    3. Re:Don't forget to crank up the phonograph by AoT · · Score: 1

      Man, if anyone still thinks the electric slide rules they must be out of touch.

    4. Re:Don't forget to crank up the phonograph by DeadChobi · · Score: 1

      I havent laughed so much at a slashdot post since I got my user ID. Thank you, parent.

      --
      SRSLY.
  16. Phonographs? by Supurcell · · Score: 1
    The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) said it was 'containing" the problem and more people were connecting to broadband.
    Who cares what they say, nobody uses phonographs anymore. And we thought the RIAA had an outdated business model.
  17. The cost of litigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The level of file-sharing has remained the same for two years despite 20,000 legal cases in 17 countries.

    Maybe THAT is the reason why record companies are seeing their profits decline? Court costs are not trivial.

  18. what the ...? by deep44 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Mr Kennedy, writing in the report, said DRM "helps get music to consumers in new and flexible ways".
    If by "new and flexible", he means, "irritating and tedious", then no- I don't think DRM is misunderstood at all!
    1. Re:what the ...? by Jesapoo · · Score: 0

      I agree completely on this point. Add on the fact that Apple have CHANGED the DRM rights on ITMS songs on to that, and they wonder why people want MP3s that haven't been messed with...

  19. Factor in growing internet population? by no_opinion · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wouldn't we expect the level of file sharing to go up, proportional to the growing internet population? If it has, in fact, stayed flat that would indicate something is creating downward pressure. Whether it's the lawsuits or not is another question entirely.

    1. Re:Factor in growing internet population? by Atario · · Score: 1
      Wouldn't we expect the level of file sharing to go up, proportional to the growing internet population? If it has, in fact, stayed flat that would indicate something is creating downward pressure.
      I'd say it means people are being more cagey about letting their activity be seen, through ever more fiendishly untraceable P2P networks, blockers like PeerGuardian, and so on.
      --
      "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
  20. Just goes to show by ztwilight · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can't outlaw something that people don't think is illegal. Just how outlawing liquor in the 30's made it more popular than ever.

    --
    Who moved my sig?
    1. Re:Just goes to show by Mr2001 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ITYM "something that people don't think is wrong", or perhaps "something that people don't think should be illegal". Basically everyone knows it's illegal to trade copyrighted material on P2P services without permission from the copyright holder, just like everyone knows it's illegal to drive 65 in a 60 zone or cross the street when the sign says DONT WALK, and everyone knew back in the days of Prohibition that alcohol was illegal. They just don't care, because (1) they know they aren't hurting anyone and (2) the chances of getting caught are slim to none.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    2. Re:Just goes to show by bladernr · · Score: 1
      You can't outlaw something that people don't think is illegal.

      Yes you can. Not wearing seatbelts was legal, a law was passed, now everyone thinks it's illegal. Many, many examples of things that were legal at one time (so everyone would rightly believe they were legal), becoming illegal.

      Just how outlawing liquor in the 30's made it more popular than ever.

      Very overused example, and there are many the other way. Outlawing seatbelts did not result in less people wearing seatbelts - it results in a great rise of the number of people wearing seatbelts.

      As an aside, there has never been any proof that outlawing liquor made it more popular. It certainly made hard liquor more popular due to economics of illegal beer vs illegal "bathtub gin" (among the other great drinks of the era). Drug use went up among then current drinkers. However, statistics did show that drinking indeed went down at the beginning of prohibition, only to later rise - but I've not seen documented that even at the peak of consumption the volume consumed per drinker was higher than pre-prohibition levels.

      --
      Sarcasm and hyperbole are the final refuges for weak minds
    3. Re:Just goes to show by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cross the street when the sign says DONT WALK

      Actually, while there are technically laws against this in many places, at the same time, it's usually not "illegal". A wise man once said that if there's no punishment, then it's not really illegal. And everyone knows that as long as you don't get hit by a car or disrupt traffic, there is almost never a punishment for crossing when the sign says don't walk, and therefore, it's not really illegal, even if a piece of paper somewhere says it is.

      This has to do with the difference between technical illegality, and practical illegality. File sharing is the same thing. The mega-corps are trying to establish punishments in the form of punitive lawsuits with hefty legal fees, but on the whole, the general conception is still that it's not "really" illegal because there's really no punishment most of the time.

      I think we pretty much agree on the reasoning you gave for why they feel that way, it's just insightful to think of legality in terms of its associated punishments.

    4. Re:Just goes to show by jbash · · Score: 1
      You can't outlaw something that people don't think is illegal. Just how outlawing liquor in the 30's made it more popular than ever.

      Interesting how people can just make shit up and be modded insightful. In reality alcohol use declined substantially during Prohition. See http://www.eh.net/encyclopedia/article/miron.prohi bition.alcohol

    5. Re:Just goes to show by Kjella · · Score: 1

      ITYM "something that people don't think is wrong", or perhaps "something that people don't think should be illegal". Basically everyone knows it's illegal to trade copyrighted material on P2P services without permission from the copyright holder, just like everyone knows it's illegal to drive 65 in a 60 zone or cross the street when the sign says DONT WALK, and everyone knew back in the days of Prohibition that alcohol was illegal. They just don't care, because (1) they know they aren't hurting anyone and (2) the chances of getting caught are slim to none.

      Regarding (1), that is mostly a self-rationalization. Alcohol is tied to a ton of actions that hurt not only yourself but others. Higher speed is tied to higher chance of accidents as well as more serious accidents, which may involve other people. And at least a few of those copyright infringments are in fact lost sales.

      Basicly, in all the cases we have some agreement on what a "serious" offense is, like going 65 over a school crossing in a 20 mph zone. There's nothing magical about going from 59,9 to 60,1 mph, it is juat that somewhere the limit has to go. I accept that going 61 is illegal because if you said going 61 wasn't illegal, then 62 shouldn't be, then 63,64,65.. you see where this is going.

      With P2P you're fairly screwed because the big commercial pirate is redundant. Almost everyone is just people sharing around stuff, noone is making money and there's millions of them. There's no way you're going to make millions of people feel like they are "real" criminals, and you won't be able to sue millions of people.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:Just goes to show by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Alcohol is tied to a ton of actions that hurt not only yourself but others. Higher speed is tied to higher chance of accidents as well as more serious accidents, which may involve other people. And at least a few of those copyright infringments are in fact lost sales.

      Perhaps I should've said "they aren't directly hurting anyone". It is possible to drink alcohol without beating up your wife, exceed the speed limit without getting into an accident, and share copyrighted material without costing anyone any sales.

      In fact, that's probably true in the vast majority of cases: most drinking doesn't result in anyone getting hurt, most speeding doesn't result in an accident (around here, it's hard to find drivers who don't speed), and most music that people download is the stuff they wouldn't have bought anyway.

      When there is any harm, it comes later, after the illegal action, as the result of another choice or a lack of judgment. That's why people don't respect the original law - they know (or at least believe) that they can break it without harming anyone or getting caught.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  21. Look at the real reason behind why people download by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Frequently we all see AntiPiracy Companies based in USA & UK bitching about loss of sales, pirating on the rise and how it adds to the cost.

    The same Anti-Piracy Ranting and Raving has been going on for the last 10 years .
    People still pirate software(apps), games(PC and consoles), Media(tv shows,movies) and other files.

    If game companies really want to make more money reduce the price of games,
    also stop mass producing a load of cheap clone copies . ( Do we need 5000 WW2 shooters?)

    Also if Movie companies want to make more money on sales and get more people to watch it instead of downloading pirate verisons . OFFER THE MOVIES WORLD WIDE the SAME DAY.

    The const flow of bullshit that USA market needs to make money 1st and then delay airing in UK, Australia, Euro, rest of the world is a big reason why people download movies .
    Why watch it in local movies when you can download the DVD Screener, DVD Rip or SVCD TC ahead of time of the local movies.

    The same goes for TV Shows . Australia and UK are the biggest downloaders of tvshows
    (90% of them american made/air'ed)

    For Australian's for the last 10 years, its been always quicker to download and watch a tv show rather then wait for it to show here a half a season too 2 seasons behind( 3 months to a year) Downloading the show comes down in HDTV format, without ads, only uses 360 meg of data per ep, correct airing order and far ahead of local airing)

    Also a lot of people that actually pirate software are low to medium income ,
    were big large corp/business like BSA, RIAA and MPAA make millions of dollars .

  22. Am I the only one that saw... by ufoman · · Score: 0, Funny

    The International Federation of the Pornographic Industries?

    --
    The following statement is false.
    The previous statement is true.
    Welcome to my world.
  23. Each time you download music illegally.... by ByteGuerrilla · · Score: 5, Funny

    .... RIAA lawyers kill a kitten.

    --

    A block of code, sufficiently well-written, is indistinguishable from magick.

    1. Re:Each time you download music illegally.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And in other news, kittens will become extinct by 2010.

    2. Re:Each time you download music illegally.... by rts008 · · Score: 0

      Good to know....(fires up bit-torrent)....'cause I hate cats.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    3. Re:Each time you download music illegally.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Each time a RIAA lawyer kills a kitten, the mommy cat kills a RIAA lawyer :)

    4. Re:Each time you download music illegally.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't *want* to kill kittens, we *make* them do it.

    5. Re:Each time you download music illegally.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am sure there will be lots of overcrowded animal shelters, and save-the-endangered-species types that would be glad to hear this. Domestic cats gone wild especially in countries where cats are not native are a menace.

    6. Re:Each time you download music illegally.... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Well, the trick is to make sure that when you do it, it's billable.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  24. But...internet use grew during that time frame by cshay · · Score: 4, Informative

    You would expect file sharing to grow naturally as more and more people use the internet. The fact that it has merely stagnated suggests that the litigation is succeeding somewhat. My own mother, who doesn't even use a computer, warned me not to file share the other day. She had "heard that people are getting sued".

    1. Re:But...internet use grew during that time frame by Ugly+American · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You would expect file sharing to grow naturally as more and more people use the internet. The fact that it has merely stagnated suggests that the litigation is succeeding somewhat. My own mother, who doesn't even use a computer, warned me not to file share the other day. She had "heard that people are getting sued".

      From what I've read on the eMule forums, I'd suspect that the lack of growth in P2P use has more to do with packet shaping than with the threat of being hauled into court. I'd also question where they're getting their numbers, especially the "870 million illegal songs" figure in the article. My understanding is that the #1 P2P application is currently bittorrent, and that the only hard data on bittorrent use is raw bandwidth consumption. Who's to say how many people are using it, or for what?

      It also seems to me that the campaign to equate downloading with theft is something of a double-edged sword. My girlfriend was dubious about the legality of downloading music directly from a band's website; she thought the RIAA might have it up as a form of entrapment. If people assume that all downloading runs the risk of a lawsuit, they may be less inclined to use legal services.

      Overall, it sounded like the typical industry PR piece on the subject: "We're winning the war against P2P! DRM is really good for you! Buy our ringtones! etc."
      --
      For sale: one sig space, gently used. Inquire for details.
    2. Re:But...internet use grew during that time frame by direwolfwr · · Score: 1

      You would expect file sharing to grow naturally as more and more people use the internet. The fact that it has merely stagnated suggests that the litigation is succeeding somewhat. My own mother, who doesn't even use a computer, warned me not to file share the other day. She had "heard that people are getting sued".

      I wholeheartedly disagree.

      Litigation has nothing to do with it.

      The assumption that file sharing would grow naturally as more and more people use the internet is useless without context. I would argue that the reason that file-sharing has not grown is because of iTunes and services like it (mostly iTunes, though). The article even points out that: "[...] and the total number of legal downloads shot up to 420 million in 2005."

      Think about it. iTunes launched in mid-2003. 420 million legal downloads (total - supposedly) in 2005 that (at least a large % of) would likely have been from illegal file-sharers a mere two years prior. Also, the Washington Post pointed out,

      "During the second half of 2004, more than 91 million digital tracks -- songs downloaded from the Internet -- were sold, compared with 19.2 million in the same period in 2003. That's an increase of 376 percent. More than 140 million digital tracks were purchased during 2004. Plus in the last week of 2004, digital track sales hit a record 6.7 million."

      I think it is safe to project this (in the context) to the growth of iPod sales as well. In the holiday season in 2004, 4.5 million iPods were sold. In the holiday season in 2005, 14 million iPods sold. 42 million!! iPods sold to date.

      Why do you *really* think the numbers of illegal file-sharing has stayed the same? I'll give you a hint:

      It has absolutely nothing to do with RIAA lawsuits.

    3. Re:But...internet use grew during that time frame by smoker2 · · Score: 1
      You would expect file sharing to grow naturally as more and more people use the internet. The fact that it has merely stagnated suggests that the litigation is succeeding somewhat.
      But, you seem to forget that because people are aware of the lawsuits, they don't download the files themselves. There are plenty of small entrepreneurs around who will sell you a dvd or cd of whatever files you want, for much less than the retail cost. I know of one person who receives a stack of cds and dvds once a month by mail order, all rips, and all for just a standard monthly fee. The provider also includes a bonus dvd with free extras such as software, cd ripping and burning tools and a free movie !

      Yeah the quality sucks on most of them, but that doesn't seem to matter to joe public. Plus. a lot of the newcomers to the net don't have the faintest idea how to rip or burn a cd / dvd so they leave it to others.

    4. Re:But...internet use grew during that time frame by Ugly+American · · Score: 1

      It also has something to do with the fact that the Kazaa experience goes kind of like this:

      (download file)

      "Crap, it's corrupted."

      (download another file)

      "Crap, it's five minutes of Madonna cursing at me in Yiddish."

      (download yet another file)

      "Crap, it's mislabeled Vanilla Ice."

      (download still another file)

      "Crap, it's 32 kbps and it's got pops and skips everywhere. The hell with this, I'll just buy it on iTunes."

      --
      For sale: one sig space, gently used. Inquire for details.
    5. Re:But...internet use grew during that time frame by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      nice use of the numbers. ofo course, you forget to mention that almost half of the money from downloaded music is towards ring tones(and they are a lot cheaper, so they most likely make up a much larger percent of all legal music downloads).

      and of course, there is no reason why my buying an Ipod would have any effect on my downloading of music. Itunes is either good for you or it sucks(personally I hate it, a terrible program that doesn't run well). of course, if I ever get my hands on the 7000 or so songs my friend has collected, I might buy an Ipod so I cna listen to any of it at any time. I don't know anything about a real distribution, but I do know that 10/12 ipods I Have seen bought were purchased to hold a massive collection of illegal music. 1 was bought by a person who doesn't believe in downloading illegally. the other is split with about 50% being illegal.

      So really, what you have done is taken a bunch of numbers and warped them to imply something you know nothing about. you have no idea how much of itunes is representing lost brick and mortar sales(remember, 15 bucks for hte album or 10 on itunes which you can get at home). but, like any good argument full of holes, you sweep the obvious under the rug.

      So why do you really think the number of illegal file sharing has stayed the say? I"ll give you a hint: you have no fucking clue why and are just making an assumption. and you know what happens when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of you and umption(brownie points if you know the movie with that line).

    6. Re:But...internet use grew during that time frame by direwolfwr · · Score: 1

      It's my opinion and nothing more.

      I gave you numbers that helped to form my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

      If you disagree with my opinion, fine! Excellent. You can give me your opinion and possibly some of the things that helped you to form that opinion in order to be informative (to me - who is wrong - according to you). Instead, you chose to imply that I warped the numbers to fit an opinion I already had. Not only is that untrue - but you did nothing to further the discussion, all you did was attack my character.

      Plus, I never said anything about "how much of itunes is representing lost brick and mortar sales". Where did that come from?

      As an aside, I don't have a horse in this race. I do not own an iPod, nor do I use iTunes. Also, I do not download music illegally. I do not do it - not because I'm afraid of the big bad RIAA - but because I think it's morally wrong (possibly because I write my own music - for fun). I download only (live) music from bands/artists that have a taper-friendly policy. However, I have quite a few friends and many acquaintances who download music illegally - and I can tell you that litigation has had no impact whatsoever on their file-sharing habits while the ability for them to get music legally through service like iTunes has. That is what prompted me to look into the matter (how many people own iPods, how many legal downloads there have been in the past few years, etc.).

      We can agree to disagree - and debate the subject - I just ask that you not attack my character or make blanket statements without justification. I will do the same.

      IIRC it's from the Long Kiss Goodnight? Sam rules.

  25. byte by byte by Kaetemi · · Score: 0

    Music piracy could be "dramatically reduced within a very short period of time" if ISPs took action against their law-breaking customers, Mr Kennedy said.
    who's going to monitor every byte of each pc connected?

    --
    Kaetemi
  26. I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are gay. Actually, you are gay...so gay that you could have come from San Francisco bay, on which they lock up people like you on the isle of Alcatraz. Speaking of witch, my Alcatel stock skyrocketed today, and you are gay!!

    1. Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only people we lock up in alkatraz are tourists.

      God I hate tourists.

  27. Keep mis-reading the name by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1
    They are called The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries? Wow, that explains the ancient mindset of the music industry. Imagine the automotive industry still refering to themselves as horseless carriage manufactures!
    For some odd reason, I keep reading their name as International Federation of the Pornography Industries. God please tell me I am not alone in this.
    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:Keep mis-reading the name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. For some odd reason, I do too. International Federation of the Pornography Industries. That sounds like something Playboy would call themselves. And I thought I was alone.

    2. Re:Keep mis-reading the name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't worry me too

  28. Re:Once a thief by halr9000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Something I did when I was a kid, which I'm ashamed of now, was shoplift just about everything that wasn't nailed down. And I was big into warez for a while. But now that I make a comfortable salary, my time is worth more to me than I would save by hunting down stuff online through nefarious means. (The shoplifting thing quickly faded as the risks grew when I reached maturity.)

    It would be interesting to see a demographic survey of /. visitors. I would guess that a large majority of those who are not students are, like me, nicely into middle class.

    Anyway, the point here is that while I used to pirate a bunch of music, that too has faded. Now I mostly grab free music, mostly live stuff from etree. And I'm pretty embittered by the big music business. What fools.

    However, unlike shoplifting or software piracy, I'm not really ashamed of the music piracy. All I was doing was something that was legal in the analog world. I was moving my own music from one place to another, or I was borrowing a copy of a friend's cd. And listening to a cd makes me want to go to a concert, and that's how their biz model should have worked.

    Or they can just sue everybody.

    Incidentally, I feel the same way about ripped TV shows. If I miss a show that was on yesterday, I still want to watch the show! All I'm doing is consuming what they air for free!

  29. Courts don't prevent crime! Surprise! by bazald · · Score: 1

    If they did, we would have stopped hearing about their proceedings long ago.

    --
    Insert self-referential sig here.
  30. Simple Market Explanation by dada21 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One spends money on things others can do more efficiently.

    The price we pay is based on our assessment of the time it took to make the exact item/service we're getting.

    Music live I can see paying $15-$50 or more -- supply is low, so demand sets the price.

    Digital music has a near infinite supply. The market pushes costs to zero.

    1. Re:Simple Market Explanation by mumblestheclown · · Score: 1
      utter rubbish. Go back to Economics 101, do not pass go..

      First, the cost is not "near zero." Rather, the MARGINAL cost of production of goods such as digital music is "near zero."

      There is a BIG difference between the two....

      however, what is more true is that the model of low marginal cost of production applies for virtually ALL industries from CPUs to newspapers to what-have-you and yet we far more rarely see the idiot economic justifications for piracy/theft in those areas that we see for music. i mean - if it basically doesnt cost AMD anything to build the 10,000,000 th CPU (as is the case), shouldnt it be ok to steal one and maybe mail them a dollar or two for the actual marginal cost? nobody but the insane would think that that makes economic sense, and yet the same logic is routinely heard here when it applies to music..

    2. Re:Simple Market Explanation by dada21 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry, incorrect.

      I've owned a studio and I'm opening a new one in spring.

      A good recording session (8 songs average) costs the band US$12000. Producing 10,000 CDs 4color is US$8000. $2/CD cost. The physical CD has value.

      Now copying the CD to another copy has little cost. You're selling the official CD, so you're asking for more money with the end user understanding that the additional price is going to help the band make more music.

      The processor market is cheap, too. I can run SOCs for a few bucks a pop.

      My studio experience and my IT experience lead me to believe that copyright is legal justification to rip people off. I think people have discovered that music in recorded form has little value, thanks to the web. Music in live form is still profitable, time for the musicians to make the same decisions the horse shoers had to make.

    3. Re:Simple Market Explanation by Microlith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Glad to know music is so worthles^Wcheap.

      How about this: 30 minutes of animation can cost between $30k and $300k, or more, depending on the quality you desire.

      Multiply that by 13 for one season and you've got a lot if it's a well animated show. Multiply it by two or four (some shows run a full year) and you're chalking up hefty costs.

      I guess since recorded media has no value, they'll have to find some way of doing animation live? Apparently since it can be digitized and copied at zero cost, the work must have zero value, and apparently zero production value. Do the slashbots have some solution for things that have high fixed costs?

    4. Re:Simple Market Explanation by Martz · · Score: 1

      Your way of working is becoming out dated though. Music doens't need to be pressed to CD for distribution, so if you are paying that cost you are choosing to ignore the internet as a distribution medium.

      Sure you have the cost of producing in the studio - but this is all based on the now out dated business model as they expect the recording label to stump up lots of money to record there. How about you start your open Open Studio, whereby people can record for free as long as you can to distribute their music via your web site.

      The law shouldn't stiffle technology to keep an industry alive. The entire industry has to adapt not because people are thieves, but people will always use their easiest convienience - ironically that is something the megacorps/retail chains have been drilling into peoples heads for many years. Trying to resist, or trying to maximise your work in the current business model is foolish because it's only a matter of time before it is superseeded by the Internet. In the future - the 'net for distribution will probably be superseeded by something else, maybe the much touted Personal Area Network where people can share music between iPods sat on the train.

    5. Re:Simple Market Explanation by dada21 · · Score: 1

      Apparently since it can be digitized and copied at zero cost, the work must have zero value, and apparently zero production value. Do the slashbots have some solution for things that have high fixed costs?

      This is a very accurate viewpoint of the current problems with digital content and the force of copyright. I was in the 3D animation business years ago (when a Pentium-200 with 64MB of RAM was considered huge) and I left it due to lack of profitable clients. If only I had waited 2 years!

      Nonetheless, I agree with you -- how do you produce something that can be copied for almost no cost, and still make a profit on it?

      I believe in the long run we have to look at the control mechanisms overall. DRM is probably the answer, but with "Fair Use" in copyright, DRM is completely destroyed. Copyright hurts the consumer, but it also hurts the producer! I see nothing wrong with DRM in an anarchocapitalist world. In fact, I see nothing wrong with proprietary playback machines. Only the market can decide what is worth buying.

      I believe in a copyright-free world, we would see better use of the theaters for recouping profits. Maybe we'd see more viewer-sponsored art creation. Maybe we'd see more co-ops or even direct-to-audience displays (nightclubs, bars, who knows). There are numerous ways to compensate someone for the art that they create, but understand that for hundreds of years, are was not created necessarily for profit but for art sake. The artists that I know that paint or do comedy or even mime (*shudder*) don't do it for an income, they do it for some internal drive. I personally don't do it (I like profit), but I welcome artists to try to get that creativity off of their chests.

      The market will always find a solution that is good for consumers, good for producers, and good for future content creators. I don't believe we need copyright to protect anything -- in fact I believe we'll see MORE content creation once we knock out the distribution cartels.

    6. Re:Simple Market Explanation by mpe · · Score: 1

      however, what is more true is that the model of low marginal cost of production applies for virtually ALL industries from CPUs to newspapers to what-have-you and yet we far more rarely see the idiot economic justifications for piracy/theft in those areas that we see for music. i mean - if it basically doesnt cost AMD anything to build the 10,000,000 th CPU (as is the case), shouldnt it be ok to steal one and maybe mail them a dollar or two for the actual marginal cost?

      Your counter examples are all physical artifacts. There is a real cost involved in making them. With a CPU the marginal cost is that of getting the raw materials to a factory, operating the factory, testing the product, packaging and shipping the finished CPU. The marginal cost is most definitly non zero and needs to be paid up front by the manufacturer long before they get any revenue from a sale. With newspapers there is the additional complication that the product is time sensitive and product which isn't sold within a short time must be recycled or disposed of.
      When people share music over the internet they are using machines and communication bandwidth they pay for.
      Trying to compare this situation with the economics of a secondary industry makes no sense.

    7. Re:Simple Market Explanation by mpe · · Score: 1

      A good recording session (8 songs average) costs the band US$12000. Producing 10,000 CDs 4color is US$8000. $2/CD cost. The physical CD has value.

      Now copying the CD to another copy has little cost.

      If it's possible to make a copy of a CD on a "one at a time" basis which is as functional as the original for less money than you want to sell it at things get interesting. (If it becomes possible to create such a copy for less than it costs you to produce the original then your supplier is ripping you off.) In the case of sound recordings they are more functional as computer files than on CDs.

      You're selling the official CD, so you're asking for more money with the end user understanding that the additional price is going to help the band make more music.

      In many cases that isn't the case, due to the strange accounting practices of the record industry.

    8. Re:Simple Market Explanation by mpe · · Score: 1

      The law shouldn't stiffle technology to keep an industry alive.

      Regardless of if that industry is ice cutting, buggy whip making or the record industry.
      Ironically legal constructs intended to promote technological innovation are being used to stiffle it.

      The entire industry has to adapt not because people are thieves, but people will always use their easiest convienience - ironically that is something the megacorps/retail chains have been drilling into peoples heads for many years.

      Only on their own terms though. Look how much fuss they make when people doing this works to the disadvantage of large corporations. You see similar things with "globalization", it's fine for a manufacturer to pick somewhere with cheap labour for a factory, but how dare someone (from a rich country) try to buy finished goods from wherever is selling them at the cheapest price on the planet.

  31. Re:The Real Issue by rts008 · · Score: 0

    May not be the info you're looking for, but unhappy musicians are starting to raise a ruckus: (http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/19157)

    --
    Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  32. Did anyone else read... by toetagger1 · · Score: 1

    International Federation of the Pornographic Industries?


    Now that would be an interesting institution to do research on filesharing!

    --
    who | grep -i blond | date cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep
    1. Re:Did anyone else read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe not filesharing research, but I am interested in their platform and would most DEFINITELY like to subscribe to their newsletter.

  33. Re:speaking of filesharing: beta2 preview of msft by wasted+time · · Score: 1

    internet exploder 7 beta2 preview

    I'd be very careful before opening that rar file, for more than one reason.

    --
    The Stone Age did not end because humans ran out of stones. - William McDonough
  34. iTunes sales? by phorm · · Score: 1

    The number of users of iTunes and iPods music devices has increased

    Hmmm, maybe because people are using the iTunes service, and downloading their music their. You're making the assumption that everyone will download either to "stick it to the man," or perhaps because to take for free rather than purchase for moderate price is what most would do.

    I counter to say that people now have a more legitimate source of music, and they are using it. After all, the article is about filesharing... but music downloads as a whole counting iTunes etc have probably increased quite a bit.

  35. Re:Death. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    your the one posting on /.

  36. Litigation now, filing yes by phorm · · Score: 1

    Carbon-copy court filing, are, however both rather inexpensive and easy to do. This is the tactic the RIAA seems to mainly use, as opposed to actually persuing things through court they bring forth an initial massive case and then an offer to settle things out for a less damaging sum.

  37. Why would there be a connection? by scdeimos · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Entities like the RIAA and IFPI hire spin doctors (and the media) trying to make the public equate file-sharing with illegal activities. But this isn't necessarily the case.

    P2P file-sharing technologies are inreasingly being used for legitimate distribution of many large content objects, simply because it makes more-efficient use of Internet infrastructure: the free-for-download fan series "Star Trek: New Voyages" and World of Warcraft patches are just two examples that come to mind.

    I expect there's plenty of Gene Research data and other such things using P2P by now as well.

  38. What about offline filesharing? by Spock+the+Baptist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You'll notice that there is *never* any mention make of the use of portable storage devices, flash memory sticks etc., for the exchange of music files. Give the increase in the amount of storage that these devices are being upgraded to it becomes very convenient to copy MP.3s to these devices at your friends house etc. and to transfer such files to your computer, then iPod etc..

    A draconian crackdown in online file sharing will only result the movement of file-sharing to an offline model.

    I well recall the music industry wailing and gnashing their collective teeth in the late 70s, early 80s because of 'pirate' taping. There was much fuss, 'n feathers about electronics manufactures marketing dual well cassette decks. In the end CDs came along killing the cassette. Thus, the industry was placated for a couple of decades. Given the convenience of the CD, and the quality of the sound folks bought into the audio CD with a vengeance. They started replacing their music collection which had been on vinyl with CDs. This caused the recording corporations to reap a windfall, without having to develop new artist, paying for new albums etc.. About the time that the internet, especially broadband, got cranked up and really going the folks that were updating their music libraries to CD got caught up. Thereby causing a dip in CD sales. This was inevitable. Not that that placated the shareholders of the recording companies. Well the CEOs etc. in the industry had their backs against the wall, as they had failed to point out to shareholders that the retool to CDs was not going to last forever, and the CEOs had been operating on cruise control as per developing new sales. So recording industry fat-cats were staring doom in the face, heads were going to roll...

    But Wait! We're not bad CEOs etc., it's those evil internet downloaders that are causing the drop in profit!

    The fact is that the RIAA and its minion are doing *nothing* but scapegoating of a new technology, and its users so that oligarchs entrenched in an economic sector that is doomed for the scrape-heap of obsolescence can hang around long enough to be able to pop their golden parachutes.

    It's not about morality, nor ethics. In the final analysis it ALL about $$$$$$ and maintain the oligarch's tasteless, but stately pleasure domes.

    --
    "Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
    1. Re:What about offline filesharing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      too true

    2. Re:What about offline filesharing? by mpe · · Score: 1

      Given the convenience of the CD, and the quality of the sound folks bought into the audio CD with a vengeance. They started replacing their music collection which had been on vinyl with CDs. This caused the recording corporations to reap a windfall, without having to develop new artist, paying for new albums etc.. About the time that the internet, especially broadband, got cranked up and really going the folks that were updating their music libraries to CD got caught up. Thereby causing a dip in CD sales. This was inevitable.

      Another thing which happened around the same time was that CD recorders became commonplace. Thus even if someone hadn't "caught up" they could convert their records into CDs. To many people convenience of useage is more of an issue than "quality". Alternativly they could download MP3s of the music they already had on vinyl, whatever the letter of copyright law might have to say about that.

    3. Re:What about offline filesharing? by Spock+the+Baptist · · Score: 1
      Alternatively they could download MP3s of the music they already had on vinyl, whatever the letter of copyright law might have to say about that.


      An excellent point. Whatever the copyright law, jurors are not going to be very sympathetic to the RIAA and its associated minions if they sue someone that's owns the vinyl version. If they own say the vinyl version and an old eight-track, or cassette of the same album they're jurors are going to view the fat-cats as rapacious $#*@&!*s, and find against the plaintiff.

      Even if the plaintiff should appeal I suspect that they would run into tough sledding in the appellate process. The MAJOR problem that would develop would be if a number of cases were consistently decided by juries against the plaintiffs. This would set off a public furor, and be a PR nightmare for the recording industry. All their moral platitudes would be instantly revealed to be completely disingenuous, and totally self-serving.

      The bottom line is that at that point the public would really make the U.S. Congress feel the heat.

      "When you hold their feet to the fire, you don't have to make them see the light, just feel the heat" --Ronald Wilson Reagan, April 29, 1983, Houston, Texas
      --
      "Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
    4. Re:What about offline filesharing? by mpe · · Score: 1

      Whatever the copyright law, jurors are not going to be very sympathetic to the RIAA and its associated minions if they sue someone that's owns the vinyl version. If they own say the vinyl version and an old eight-track, or cassette of the same album they're jurors are going to view the fat-cats as rapacious $#*@&!*s, and find against the plaintiff.

      Juries have the power to effectivly judge the law as well as the case in question through "jury nullification". The RIAA/MPAA/etc appear to be using lawsuits as a method of extortion. They don't appear too keen of the cases actually comming before any court (let alone one where a jury is involved).

  39. bad interpretation, not much has changed. by twitter · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Wouldn't we expect the level of file sharing to go up, proportional to the growing internet population?

    Yes and it did. That is a brief history of the 90s.

    If it has, in fact, stayed flat that would indicate something is creating downward pressure.

    What you see is market destruction and saturation. The big publishers wiped out their competition, so their primary market is left with bad choices and continues to make them at the same rate as always.

    Don't confuse broadband adoption with internet access and don't think that you need broadband to swap music. Internet access itself has remained constant in the developed world. Everyone who wants it has had it for years. Broadband is needed for other activities that require instant feedback but music is not one of them.

    Music sharing was big before broadband became common because songs are only a few megabytes in size. Back in the day, people would set their favorite client to download their music while they did other things. There's only so much free music a person wants in a given night and dial up worked just fine. A person using the old Napster was exposed to more new music than any commercial radio station can provide and often collected more songs than the average station carries in inventory. Having your requests met in minutes is not much more satisfying than your computer getting it over an hour or so. The thing that mattered was variety and price.

    It's not surprising that "piracy" is still rampant because the greedheads turned everything else off. Legitimate providers like MP3.com were all shut down and replaced by greedy nonsense like ITunes and horrid clients like WMP. After years of stagnation, other legitimate services are finally coming back on line. Places like Magnatune are finally going to put money in artist's pockets and new music at your fingertips. In the mean time, anyone who really wants music will find a way. The tools only get better and the difference between what you can get on music sharing services and what's offered by the big publishers and broadcasters is still staggering.

    The greedheads are losing.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  40. Getting back to a normal relationship between by burni · · Score: 4, Insightful

    consumers and artists

    1.) artists need money to live and be productive
    2.) artists need consumers who appreciate their art work, and pay for them
    3.) consumers need artists too, because artists are the basic glue which upholds
    and inspires our culture, every decade is mostly described by their artists,
    and the artwork,

    what you think of when I say 80s, perhaps there is a famous tune floating
    through your ears, or you see a picture of the androgynous "Boy George",
    or see a black pontiac transam cruising, it´s part of our culture,
    or even parts of our identity.

    <b>artwork belongs to both society and creator </b>

    so as I wrote in the subject it&#180;s a two way relationship where no side
    can exist without the other, so from my point of view if you are an artist and create artwork, on the one hand you should have the right to sell your artwork,
    and you should have the right to prosecute those people who sell
    your creations, because this is a really damage in your oportunity to
    sell your artwork, but persecuting private fileshares, which could not
    pay for all artwork they have on their HDs aren&#180;t really a loss,

    because most of them still buy the artwork they appreciate most,
    they are consumers who are willing to pay for artwork.

    But accepting that you created artwork and release it to the public you also
    must accept that since release you don&#180;t own your creation entirely anymore,
    it becomes part of the cultural heritage of a group, a society or even the worlds cultural heritage.

    So concluding this, and citing what was said in a thread above, the more people you take to court the more bitter people there will be, the more consumers
    you will lose.

    <b>The copyright has gone mad since the "Mickey Mouse" - act induced by Bono.</b>

    In germany we call the copyright "Urheberrecht"

    Which means the right of the creator on his creation, but why should
    the copyright last longer than the creator lives, because he is dead,
    so he and his work were and are part of our culture, he participated
    on the wealth of the consumers of his artwork, so why after his death
    his artwork shouldn&#180;t be public domain ?

    Artwork isn&#180;t pure commercial, because it&#180;s part of our culture.

    a.) I&#180;m against commercial copyright violators

    b.) I provide an allowance of private and fair use,
    perhaps using a culture flat fee, where you pay non directional
    so creators of swapped artwork get a compensation

    c.) many artists owe their public success to the napsters and eDonkeys
    of the world, for example "Gorillaz"

    d.) music industry is stuck into a total commercial way of thinking,
    they forgot that those private file swappers they sue, are also mostly
    consumers, and that private fileswapping can boost record sales

    e.) we even have recuded file swapping rates, but the record sales
    are still decreasing.

    <b> Copy doesn&#180;t kill music,
    Copy is a sign of life,
    Hearing & Copying is a sign of appreciation,
    </b>
    and leads to prospering business.

    1. Re:Getting back to a normal relationship between by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for tuning into tonight's episode of "Why Presentation Matters." Good night, kids, and don't forget to shower.

  41. the phonograph is the industry. by twitter · · Score: 1
    Wow, that explains the ancient mindset of the music industry.

    It's not just an ancient mindset, it's an ancient industry. It's foundation is limitation of publication of physical media. From the broken presses of Gilbert and Sullivan sheet music presses to CD burnings, the industry has existed only through the intervention and support of government. In the US, the establishment clause of the constitution somehow has given us eternal copyright, three broadcasters and three big music publishers with much overlap. It has enriched a few at the expense of all those excluded from their free market share of popular culture. Just ask Courtney Love. The internet has pulled the rug out from the pigopolists and they are going the same place your record player has gone. You, me and the artists are going to win this one.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:the phonograph is the industry. by Yartrebo · · Score: 1

      Somehow I'm much more of a pessimist. I think that if the pigopolist media can drum up and continue a war on drugs and a war on terrorism then they'll definitely win all their wet copyright dreams. Big media carries a very big megaphone, and they have a personal stake in the matter.

    2. Re:the phonograph is the industry. by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      In the US, the establishment clause of the constitution somehow has given us eternal copyright, three broadcasters and three big music publishers with much overlap.

      Given that the establishment clause is the clause that prohibits the government from establishing a religion, could you explain precisely how it's given us eternal copyright, etc.? I'm especially interested in how it compares with the copyright and patent clause.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    3. Re:the phonograph is the industry. by twitter · · Score: 1
      Given that the establishment clause is the clause that prohibits the government from establishing a religion, could you explain precisely how it's given us eternal copyright, etc.? I'm especially interested in how it compares with the copyright and patent clause.

      Oh, picky, picky. I've heard Article One, section 8, of the United States Constitution described as the "Copyright Establishment Clause" which is very different from the Bill of Rights prohibition of a state religion. Perhaps I heard wrong and that section should be called a patent and copyright clause, though neither of those terms is employed. It reads:

      The Congress shall have Power... To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.

      You might note that the motivation is the promotion of useful arts and that a monopoly on an expression is anything but a promotion. How copyright grew from 14 years to 75 is an inexcusable tale of greed. Surely, the useful arts are not promoted if publication is limited beyond the lifetime of the author and the cultural currency of the work.

      --

      Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    4. Re:the phonograph is the industry. by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, picky, picky.

      Eh, it's like people thoroughly mangling computer terms. There's one clause called the establishment clause, and that's in the First Amendment.

      Perhaps I heard wrong and that section should be called a patent and copyright clause, though neither of those terms is employed.

      And the elastic clause doesn't mention elasticity. So what? They're lawyer's jargon for various clauses in the Constitution, not parts of the actual document. The important thing is that people know what you mean when you use them, which isn't helped by misusing them.

      You might note that the motivation is the promotion of useful arts

      No, the purpose of copyrights is to promote science. The purpose of patents is to promote the useful arts. Remember, the Constitution was written in the late 18th century -- some of the words have rather different meanings than they do today, because English is a very dynamic language.

      You can see that this is the case by looking at the structure of the clause, which always goes copyright, then patent: science/useful arts, authors/inventors, writings/discoveries. Or by considering that some uses of the word 'art' in its 'applied technology' sense still survive, such as 'state of the art' or 'prior art' or 'person having ordinary skill in the art.' Or by just consulting your convenient pocket-sized unabridged OED for the meanings of those words in the 1780's.

      a monopoly on an expression is anything but a promotion

      Well, that depends. Think of, say, cable tv monopolies. The idea is that a town will give a monopoly to a cable company so that the cable company will have an incentive to install all the wiring throughout the town. Eventually the monopoly runs out, but the wires are still in place, so the town can enjoy competitor providers to reduce prices. Basically it's a way of getting a cake and eating it too, but over an extended period of time.

      Copyright is meant to work the same way: while the ideal world would be authors producing all they can, and with no copyrights at all, by deferring the point where works are in the public domain, you provide an incentive to authors to create works that they otherwise would not have created.

      The trick is to remember that you're not doing this for the benefit of the monopolist, who must not be allowed to get too powerful, that the monopolist should be 'paid' the lowest amount where he still does what you want, and that sometimes the monopoly is more harmful than whatever benefits you can derive from it.

      How copyright grew from 14 years to 75 is an inexcusable tale of greed.

      First, term length went from 14+14 years to the current life+70 / 95 / 120 / not before AD 2048 / not before AD 2067 terms we have now (which one applies depends on various details that basically makes it impractical to even check). Of course, it didn't happen all in one go. Terms have lengthened over the years.

      Second, don't get caught up on term length. Yes, it is tremendously bad, but the scope of copyright -- what it applies to, what exceptions exist, the procedure for getting a copyright or licensing or conveying rights, etc. -- are also of crucial importance. Merely reigning in term length would not be good enough to fix things.

      I concur re: inexcusable greed.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    5. Re:the phonograph is the industry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Twitter, you're a petulant cock-gobbling sycophant to Linux Torvaldyos! Quit taking DP from ESR and RMS's feculent cocks and why don't you try to stop sucking quite so much? Get out of your parents' basement and see the real world - maybe then you'll see how pathetic you sound, with your neverending stream of bullshit about how Microsoft is stalking you. Wasn't it you who said that Microsoft believes your insane ranting is actually a threat to them, so they PAY PEOPLE to reply to you on Slashdot? No sir, I don't get any money. I do it for the love. Someone has to go up against your paranoid whining. So get back in your cage and shut the fuck up already.

    6. Re:the phonograph is the industry. by mpe · · Score: 1

      You might note that the motivation is the promotion of useful arts and that a monopoly on an expression is anything but a promotion.

      The idea is that the limited monopoly was intended as a means to an end. With the means having become treated as more important than the end. To the point that current laws may be a hinderance rather than a help.

      How copyright grew from 14 years to 75 is an inexcusable tale of greed.

      Even if it can be shown that 14 years copyright is (or was) a good thing from the POV of encouraging publication (N.B. AFAIK this has yet to be demonstrated.) that dosn't imply anything about 75 year copyrights. Plenty of things are good in moderation but bad in excess.

      Surely, the useful arts are not promoted if publication is limited beyond the lifetime of the author and the cultural currency of the work.

      These variables are independent. There's also a third variable, the lifetime of the work as a viable commercial entity. (This can sometimes be measured in weeks or months. Not uncommonly it is "never"). A copyright can exist on something which has been out of print for decades (in the extreme copyright can exist on something which no longer exists).

  42. It can all be explained by jofi · · Score: 1
    Just download the South Park episode entitled "Christian Rock Hard." You can learn alot on this issue just by watching that episode.

    Also, when I saw "Phonographic," I thought it said "Pornographic." :-)

    --
    Blame the user, not the software.
    1. Re:It can all be explained by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It should be called "Pornographic" for what they are doing.

  43. Same by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    The fact the level has remained the same is a massive victory for the RIAA.

    The way file sharing was growing with Napster and Even with Kazaa it's a wonder they didn't go out of business.

    Well here's hoping someone compiles ALL free music and formats it well somewhere and they take down the RIAA.

  44. Re:Prostitute Schedule for Jan. 20 at the MBOT in by Catbeller · · Score: 1

    I've heard of this thing somewhere else.

    But, since we're off topic, lemme point out the Uncertainty Principle applies to prostitution listings on websites -- the very act of noting them collapses the wave function and they cease to exist. this would be eerie and Grant Morrisony, but it's not, because of course the cops can read websites as well as you can.

  45. Hey, here's a thought by Swift2001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just one idea that seems, at the moment, to make sense. You're a music company, now. You sell CDs. You advertise them on the radio by passing out major bucks to corrupt DJs and so on. This works? For teenyboppers. Thus the boy bands, the Britneys, all of that. Hey, it's smokin' when you're 14. But it doesn't work with core music buyers. So what to do? Simple. Sponsor sharing networks. Pay people if they recommend things that get downloaded a lot. Give them download credits for uploading. Get into commercial deals with websites, and pay for their servers, give away prizes, all that stuff. It'll be a whole lot cheaper than KISS-FM, that's for sure. Now, if it's legal, why buy? Simple. Check out what's on pirate boards: nada. Three or four hundred albums and their songs, all current with teens and young adults. But servers cost money. A catalog costs money. Quality costs either bandwidth or straight money. Hardware, software and music companies should all take a piece of establishing the "music promo" environment, and get money back in hardware, software and music sales. The Hit Parade is dead. Top 40 radio is dead. Pirate Bay? Not dead.

    1. Re:Hey, here's a thought by vision864 · · Score: 1

      Kiss-Fm
      dont suppose your refering to 101.9 that damn station i scan past on my way to Z100?

    2. Re:Hey, here's a thought by Swift2001 · · Score: 1

      Whatever. It's out of date, I'm sure, but I haven't tuned in a music station for years. Haven't you heard of iPods? What I'm sayin' is, that FM spectrum would better be used as municipal Wi-Fi.

  46. In related news... by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

    Scientists have confirmed that the earth is indeed round.

    1. Re:In related news... by peterfa · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Nut uh, the Earth is flat. I can prove it. In America, things fall towards the ground. In Austrillia things still fall towards the ground. In China, things still fall towards the ground. How do you explain this if the Earth is round? Huh?

    2. Re:In related news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Sigh*

      Oblate spheroid, right?

    3. Re:In related news... by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter what shape the Earth is. The reason for why things fall to the ground was worked out by Aristole over 2000 years ago. You see, he said that the reason for why things fall to the ground is because that's where they're supposed to be. If you lift something off the ground, it is not natural for it to be suspended. When you let go, it falls to the ground! Simple really.
      Birds fly because they are meant to- they have wings!
      etc etc etc.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    4. Re:In related news... by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      A pear IS an oblate spheriod!

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  47. File Sharing by peterfa · · Score: 1

    I've thought about this from time to time. I share because I don't have money, which is only a temporary excuse because I'm cheap. However, I wonder if artists might make a living by giving out their music for totally free, and permitting file-sharing.

    It appears to me that most companies that market to teenagers actually attempt to market culture. It seems to me that what teenagers want more than anything is culture. That explains MTV and all the weird and eccentrical behaviors and speech from teenagers. Teenagers get into music and style. This is culture to them. They fit in. That is, they are properly encultured. Now they are acceptable by their peers.

    Now a company attempts to market to teenagers. If the company succeeds, their product becames culture so that all teenagers who wish to be "in" must have that product. The company makes a lot of money.

    The solution to all this file-sharing delima that I might propose is that artists give away their music for free and then contract with companies that sell clothing and other goods. These companies would make shirts with their artists' names on it. The artists could do all the other things like concerts like they always have and do now.

    People would be allowed to freely distribute the music or you could buy the CD if you really want to from the store still. It's just that you could download the music from the website or whatever.

    The money is made in the tangible goods. Tangible goods always wear out so there's always a demand.

    1. Re:File Sharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      let's get real here. someone pulling in millions a year for selling songs isn't going to want to just walk away from the ANNUAL MILLIONS with a smile.

      could they get into clothing lines, perfumes, etc? sure, but they can do that now AND STILL MAKE THE MILLIONS.

      nope, they'll set aside a million AND FIGHT LIKE ALL GET OUT to keep their piece of the pie - and they don't care what college kids or techies think. THEY WANT THEIR BLING, BLING!

      the world is changing and the HAVES aren't happy about becoming the HAVE LESS THAN WE USED TOES... even if some college kid or techie has even less.

      now, throw in the fact that the record companies MAKE BILLIONS... and governemnt is FOR SALE... and you had better bring more than your fists to this fight.

    2. Re:File Sharing by peterfa · · Score: 0

      Eh, yeah. Good point.

  48. RIAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The RIAA knew that the lawsuits wouldn't work even before they started using them. The people working for RIAA knew that the music industry had lost the file sharing wars, but when the music industry pays your bills, you go ahead with a strategy even when you know that it is pointless.

  49. Hurts the consumer too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The same data can actually play right into there hands.
    How? The RIAA can now claim that existing legal options availible to them are
    not sufficient. This gives them the oppertunity to claim enhanced measures like
    broadcast flags, root kits etc are required to protect their revenues.
    I am a glass half empty kind of guy, and this is the first thought that came to mind. They can play the victim quite well.

  50. circletimessquare's guide to safe filesharing by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i'm sorry, but i will never buy digital media in my life ever again. i haven't bought a single CD since i fired up Napster in 1999. my formula for not being caught is two-fold:

    1. load your shared folder up with porn

    2. if you must download linkin park or flipsyde, the kind of stuff the riaa is sniffing?:
    a. stop all of your downloads except that song you want with the most sources and the best connections
    b. suck it down in under a minute
    c. immediately get it out of your shared folder
    d. if you do it fast enough, all the porn suckers you have cultivated will flood out and anyone trying to get that drop of water pop song in your sea of masking porn
    e. and the riaa only goes after those who make pop songs available, not those who download it, don't forget that

    additionally you are a filesharer of good ethical standing: you ARE sharing files people want, you are just segregating what you share/ don't share according legal risk

    and speaking of pop songs? i have the BEST solution for beating the riaa on that subject matter: i embrace world music, i let my mind wander. currently, i'm into japanese pop music and european techno: love that armin van buuren and ayumi hamasaki (i live in new york city)

    the thing to do is is to expand your musical interests to things beyond the usual pop crap of your native country (and embrace pop crap of other countries, heh), and you are also therefore using the new file sharing technology to its greatest benefit: connecting with resources that otherwise would be beyond your grasp in the pre-internet universe. file sharing is exactly what the digital utopians dreamed about in the heyday of the internet: the free exchange of world culture, bringing people together in large and small ways. file sharing is the promise of the internet. the only people who lose, are media conglomerates. every one else wins, INCLUDING THE ARTISTS. because a real artist does it for the art, not the money

    so embrace world music, and you win two ways:

    1. you won't be on the riaa's radar
    2. you'll grow new brain cells as you develop an awareness of a world beyond your nation's borders, of music beyond your stupid local music industry

    there really is a lot of good stuff out there. free your mind and give the bastards who want to keep you in a marketing straightjacket the finger in the process.

    and for those of you with a holier-than-thou attitude about me ripping off musicians from other countries? get around this chicken and egg situation: if it weren't for the filesharing networks, I WOULD NEVER BE EXPOSED TO THE ARTIST I AM LISTENING TO IN THE FIRST PLACE. solve that quandry and get back to me with your holier than thou attitude

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:circletimessquare's guide to safe filesharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      love that armin van buuren and ayumi hamasaki

      Then you will love the Armin Van Buuren remixes of Ayu's "Appears":
      http://www.discogs.com/release/443393

    2. Re:circletimessquare's guide to safe filesharing by DeadChobi · · Score: 1

      Amen to that. The only reason I go to Anime conventions is to buy J-Pop CDs and OSTs. And I never would have become interested in the music if I hadn't originally started downloading it via WinMX.

      Last year when I was at Sakura-con, I bought an Ayumi Hamasaki CD after seeing one of her music videos at one of the dealer's booths. I cant read Japanese, so I'm usually reluctant to browse imports because I cant tell who I'm looking at. But I asked the person running the booth "*points at video* do you have any CDs by her?" And they fished through their collection.

      That is how I want to buy CDs.

      *listens to song* "Do you have any more of this?"

      I have to say that if it wasn't for the internet and FM radio enabling me to listen to music that I otherwise would not have the opportunity to listen to, nor the will to buy, my artistic life(read life of exposure to art) would not be as rich as it is today.

      When it comes to something as deep and inspiring as music can be, I do not relish the idea of going into a store having only listened to 30-seconds from a 60-minute album. I have bought CDs with one good song and 10 mediocre ones on them before. I am definately of the "try before you buy" frame of mind. The internet facilitates this method of consumerism.

      --
      SRSLY.
    3. Re:circletimessquare's guide to safe filesharing by Vampyre_Macavity · · Score: 1
      > if it weren't for the filesharing networks, I WOULD NEVER BE EXPOSED TO THE ARTIST I AM LISTENING TO IN THE FIRST PLACE.

      Amen, brother!

      Here, for your perusal are a few examples of music that I'd never have been able to acquire were it not for file-sharing:

      B001e - Blow Up The World (opening theme for Patrolling with Sean Kennedy
      Bad Religion - Come Join Us (again, first heard on PwSK, acquired from Shareaza)
      Within Temptation - you name the song, I've probably got it thanks to Shareaza/WinMX
      Overload, Marko Polo, Vanilla Ninja, E-Type - Heard all of them in various games/game mods. Googled the lyrics I could make out, then used Shareaza to download the songs.
      Orbital - I would never have heard of these if I hadn't been looking for a copy of the Doctor Who theme (which they did a pretty good remix of).
      Frank Klepacki - Before I was able to get my hands on XCC Mixer, the only way to listen to his music was A) in the games he worked on, or B) by downloading it off P2P.

  51. Re:The Real Issue by westyvw · · Score: 1
    However, most feel that their work should be protected and they should get some sort of compensation from it (a perfectly justifable argument.
    Yeah, and thats why they should get off their ass and work (perform). I would like a job where I create one widget and then the company makes copies and I get paid for each copy sold. For Musicians those days are gone, and people should do as they were told when they were children: be nice and share.
  52. p2p by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The more court action they do the more people won't buy. You can't bite the hand that feeds you!

  53. Logically speaking they are correct by marcybots · · Score: 1

    Looking at it form a statistical stand point they are correct. If more people are using broadband internet connections but the number of people using peer to peer file sharing services is the same, then they can consider this a success because the PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE IS DOWN because of all the people who could possibly file sharing at high speeds, a lower percentage are than before they began these law suits. Also a major flaw of this study is that it does not mention if people are still using peer to peer file sharing networks are sharing more or less files than they used too, which would indicate that they were being deterred by the threat of lawsuits.
          Anyone who says these lawsuits are not having some effect needs a refresher course in mathematics because they dont understand how to calculate a percentage.

  54. Most courts say...... by Khyber · · Score: 1

    It's not the trading of music, it's the sharing/subsequent uploading of the copywritten music that constitutes copyright violations by most courts.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Most courts say...... by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Er, what did you think I meant by "trad[ing] copyrighted material on P2P services"? Every byte that you download from a P2P service must be uploaded by someone else.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  55. They are fulla shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What? Are they gonna sue everyone? In fact, they have tried, with ignominous results. They have sued people for the stupidest reasons, confusing innocuous filenames for recent hits. All they have done is create bad press!

    Will they quit? Nahhh! It just means they must try harder! My friends, we are looking at the last desparate thrashings of a dinosaur.

  56. Maddox's Paradox by Silvrmane · · Score: 1

    For every file that you don't download, I'll download three!

  57. It's not round Damn it. It's pear shaped! by Whiteox · · Score: 1

    It's not round Damn it. It's pear shaped!

    --
    Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  58. whats wrong with the rar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    did u experience any problems? the exe file is signed and everything is fine with this package.

    1. Re:whats wrong with the rar? by wasted+time · · Score: 1

      internet exploder 7 beta2 preview

      --
      The Stone Age did not end because humans ran out of stones. - William McDonough
  59. music piracy has always been there by eneville · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't see the point in all the who-har around music piracy. Up until 1920s people in Spain would have played music via instruments in town squares joyfully, people shared music and shared the enjoyment of it. There was no complaint of reproduction of music. Later came the tape cassette, so shortly there after the bootlegger. Now we have CDs, at incredible prices and people just boot leg via mp3. There is some reduction in quality and there is also the colour injet to make the inlays.

    Whats the point though, why all this fus, it's just people trying to share enjoyment. It's not like money makes people happy, if the artists are good then they sell tickets, that's where the real money is.

    I'd rather move to Spain and try to catch some of the towns people reproduce music their way, that has to be more original.

    But on this note, why should the consumer pay to listen to some remake of an old classic for a rediculous price, it's not original work and therefore as much IP theft as someone who boot leggs music.

    And no, I do not copy music, kazza doesn't run on Linux, I listen only to shoutcast streams, and freeview channel 18.

  60. It does not beg the question by ankarbass · · Score: 1

    It might raise the question, but it does not "beg the question." I know that there is some acceptance of your common usage of the phrase, however, it still makes you sound like an idiot.

    --
    Wanted: Clever sig, top $ paid, all offers considered.
  61. What happens when digital radio comes out? by cscalfani · · Score: 1

    The free-radio industry is looking at moving to digital broadcasts (like that's going to save them).

    Imagine a TiVo-like device that records everything off of the radio, digitally.
    Now imagine I skim through this "data" for songs I like, save them to my hard drive and I'm done.

    No RIAA beating down my door. No lawsuits. No illegal activity.

  62. yup ;-) by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    that's exactly what i was thinking of when i wrote that ;-)

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  63. Re:The Real Issue by mpe · · Score: 1

    However, most feel that their work should be protected and they should get some sort of compensation from it (a perfectly justifable argument. Can't make much music if you're starving)

    Why should people get compensation for their "work" just because there are musicans? Should people be compensated for doing "work" even if nobody else could care less about their work? That would be like paying people, who like digging holes, if they spend all day digging holes on their own land.
    There's also nothing that says a musician can't have a "day job". Someone being able to support themselves entirely as a musician tends to rely on both talent and luck.
    The idea of royalties is somewhat questionable. It would be like if people were excepted to tip architects and builders every time they entered a building

  64. Re:Look at the real reason behind why people downl by mpe · · Score: 1

    Frequently we all see AntiPiracy Companies based in USA & UK bitching about loss of sales, pirating on the rise and how it adds to the cost.

    Yet the sales and profits of the companies involved tell a different story...
    Some "pirates" wouldn't buy at the price being asked, some wouldn't buy even at cost price. In these cases there was never any potential sale to lose in the first place.

    The same Anti-Piracy Ranting and Raving has been going on for the last 10 years .

    It started well before 1996. Just that the words and the "machine of all evil" has changed over the last few decades.

    Also if Movie companies want to make more money on sales and get more people to watch it instead of downloading pirate verisons . OFFER THE MOVIES WORLD WIDE the SAME DAY.

    In many cases the companys distributing movies are large multinationals. It's most likely easier to do this for a movie than for a book, yet book publishers manage to do so. There's also a level of hypocracy in constant lobbying for "harmonization" of copyright laws, whilst at the same time allowing distributers to be able to arbitarily pick and choose where (and when) they are prepared to distribute.

    The const flow of bullshit that USA market needs to make money 1st and then delay airing in UK, Australia, Euro, rest of the world is a big reason why people download movies .

    If this were the case then shouldn't movies have the highest ticket prices in the USA?

    Why watch it in local movies when you can download the DVD Screener, DVD Rip or SVCD TC ahead of time of the local movies.

    Sometimes even before it would be released anywhere. The point of screeners appears at least partly to be to allow tame reviewers and awards panels to see finished movies before the "plebs". Which is also inconsistent with the idea of a movie needing to make back its production costs ASAP.

    The same goes for TV Shows . Australia and UK are the biggest downloaders of tvshows (90% of them american made/air'ed).

    Remember that "American made" often equates to "Made in Canada". Even with the USA recently getting the short end of the stick, e.g. Battlestar Galactica and Doctor Who, the MPAA dosn't appear to get it.

    For Australian's for the last 10 years, its been always quicker to download and watch a tv show rather then wait for it to show here a half a season too 2 seasons behind( 3 months to a year)

    Australians get a very raw deal. With it possibly being quicker to send things across the Pacific in a leaky rowing boat! With this still going on after Australia has messed up their own laws in the name of a "Free Trade Agreement" with the USA.

    Downloading the show comes down in HDTV format, without ads, only uses 360 meg of data per ep, correct airing order and far ahead of local airing)

    Typically within less that 24 hours of the programme airing anywhere on the planet. Possibly quicker than flying an airliner, with recording equiptment, to record the broadcast and bring the recording home.