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Games Are Porn in Utah
GameDailyBiz reports that there is new anti-videogame legislation brewing in both Iowa and Utah. Utah's law is more poorly thought out than most, essentially classifying violent games as porn. From the article: "Meanwhile in Utah, State Rep. David Hogue (R-Riverton) is taking a different approach. Hogue's HB 0257 would seek to amend an existing Utah statute by adding an 'inappropriate violence' clause--such as violence exhibited in some of today's popular video games. Under the existing Utah statute the distribution or showing of pornography and explicit nudity to minors is a felony. Hogue is certainly not the first politician to compare violent video games to pornography. CA Assemblyman Leland Yee and countless others have put playing violent games in the same category as porn or smoking cigarettes."
This post is filithy and should be counted as porn too I think.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
"'inappropriate violence' clause--such as violence exhibited in some of today's popular video games."
If the game makers had used some type of self-restraint and cooperation like we see the movie industry doing with their ratings for vchips maybe there would be no need for stupid laws.
This has been another valuable and informative opinion from:
Catahoula!
This way you can explicitly put there alcoholic beverages, cigarrettes, pornography and violent videogames in the same category.
I have yet to hear (from friends, in the press, whatever) from any parent who claimed that he was unable to stop his child from playing these kinds of games and therefore needed a law like this one. These politicians talk about how children are playing inappropriate games, so you would think that they could fine one parent who needs this law. Has there ever been a case of a politicians proposing a law for parents without having a parent vouch for it? Where are these parents supporting these laws???? I want to hear from them!
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Videogames==porn? If only it were true...
There's also a candidate for political office (iirc) in Texas who wants to add a 50% tax on all "violent" games (without really any definition of what is violent and what is not). The bill in question essentially would make almost all video games 1.5x more expensive.
(...He also wants to add a 10% tax to all soft drinks and a $10,000 tax to all abortions. Take that as you will.)
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
Polygamy 3.0, sold a lot in Utah.
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
Add "inappropriate violence" to that, and most R-rated movies have become illegal to sell to minors. Not to mention movies shown on cable (or even network) TV. I'd like to see this pass just to see what a mess they make of it. (Though I'm sure if I lived in Utah I'd feel differently.)
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
So kids bathe blindfolded there? Oh wait, they elected Orrin Hatch... that explains everything.
On the other hand, I'd rather parity be restored by increasing open-mindedness about sex... but I'll take what I can get.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
the search engines are aiding the government in the war on 'child porn'...
.. fuck hell if i know..
or was it children looking for porn?
or was it
'nuff said.
I don't see the controversy. If there is any such thing as porn, highly violent video games would have to qualify better than anything else I can think of.
They can finally claim to have had sex after interacting with another player in a round of violent online gaming after this law is passed.
I think I want to move out of the country (US). Politicians are getting less intelligent by the nanosecond. Don't they have more relevant issues to lobby for? How about showing the redneck parents that videogames are not for friggin 8 year olds anymore? I hate when a parent will buy a game for a little kid, not examine it before letting he/she play it, then blame the producers of the game for ruining their child. only in the us...jeez
First off I'd consider myself a pacifist. I may have a decent amount of inner rage, but I'm anti-war, anti-death penalty and generally think that there's little reason to ever hurt people.
Earlier today I was playing Resident Evil 4 on my second run through and became quite disappointed that after shooting enemies in the head they would just fall over dead. Sure I'd accomplished my goal by removing them as a threat, but it was just so lackluster if a perfect headshot from a powerful handgun (maxed out Red9) or shotgun (maxed out Striker) didn't cause their heads to explode in a mass of gore. A bit of violent fireworks to signify a job well done.
A little later I was talking to my girlfriend about this when I realized that when compared to real-world violence video game violence is simply more visceral and exciting. If I were to shoot someone in the head in the real world they'd simply fall over and bleed quite a bit.
Perhaps this is related to years upon years (i.e. since the release of the NES) of playing video games (not necessarily violent or not, I choose games based on their quality, Civilization being my all-time favorite) or maybe it's a result of all sorts of other effects culminating in a constant desire to get more and more out of it, but honestly real world violence isn't in any way exciting. It's simply painful, messy, unpleasant, and good for hurting people. Any claim that kids who enjoy the thrill of seeing a head pop open when hit by an excellent 500 yd shot from a sniper rifle would suddenly love to go out and do it in reality simply don't realize that watching some guy a long ways away fall over really isn't exciting. A good thing for all of us and a bad thing for the military... the only people who actually want kids to go off and shoot people in the head in real life.
I agree. Violence is far, far worse than most porn. It really sickens me how our religious/puritannical roots still govern much of what we accept as a society in the US today. Most people don't think twice about watching a bunch of killings on TV or in the movies, let alone allowing their kids to do so alongside them. But show a little female nipple, or two people tastefully expressing their love (or lust!) physically, and it's like the ultimate sin. Ridiculous! This stuff should be introduced to kids at the right time and with proper guidance, but it shouldn't be taboo.
I contend that a kid exposed to tastefully made porn, with frank guidance on what it means as part of natural human sexuality, will grow up a much better individual than his twin, exposed to the same amount of gratuitous violence.
Each has its place, especially when understood within the appropriate context (ie, watch a slasher flick for entertainment, fully understanding that it's make-believe and shouldn't be considered as remotely appropriate in the real world), but the balance is way, waaaay far off in the US.
This is just a continuation of the let's ban/restrict "violent" video games political bandwagon. Once these laws have been proposed and struck down in all 50 states and D.C., then things should cool off. Even the stupidest politician must know by now that they can score points with this without the threat that any of these laws will withstand constitutional muster. It's a great way to get yourself in the news on the right side of what is "decent and pure".
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
Thanks Utah, Now I can also reached 100% pr0n usage of my computer with Doom3 installed.
I hate to break the stats.
I can't believe how many people (the politicians/ law figures in particular) are still storming over this issue. And what's worse is the solutions they come up with to fix this alleged problem. Out of all the violence that occurs on our planet, the make-believe and at times imaginative forms is the biggest concern? Please, why not spend the energy alleviating the ACTUAL violence that consumes many people's lives, and which hardly even stems from fictional violence...
In general, though, the movie industry is entirely self-regulated, and stores don't sell R-rated movies to minors because they don't want parents screaming at them (or worse, suing) for exposing their innocent wittle children to big bad movies and scarring them for life. But, y'know, a lot of places do it anyhow. Think about it: all over the place, you see signs saying exactly what date you have to have been born to buy alcohol or tobacco - have you EVER seen such a sign for R-rated movies?
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
This is the job of parents really, whatever the government says.
I used to think that, and then I had kids. And then they grew old enough to start going to school and talking to their friends at recess, and going to friends houses.
While I have more control over my children than many parents seem to have, it still stuns me how little control we actually do have. As they grow older, what control we do have will dissipate.
Thus, while I wouldn't want violent VGs marked as porn, we do want/need some sort of effective rating system.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
> Utah's law is more poorly thought out than most, essentially classifying violent games as porn.
Well waitaminute...
Why does porn need to be censored again?
If Utah suddenly stopped censoring everything it currently considers "porn" and started censoring games, will the state have improved or degraded itself in terms of moral standards?
I think maybe when we talk about censorship of games, we might as well open up the notion of censorship in general: when is it it wrong, when (if ever) is it right, and what objective standards can we use to decide whether to toss a communication into one bin or the other?
'Cause, to me, it wouldn't matter if games were classified as "porn", so long as porn is freely available to all.
You mean like a game where you beat the shit out of your state senator?
To beat the shit out of somebody, all you have to do is give him or her a stool softener, right?
Maybe it could just be a list of contraband that forces the seller to check with the parent of someone below the age of X.
I believe that many states' laws and retailers' regulations are structured in exactly this way. For instance, the list used by Wal-Mart in Indiana includes at least alcoholic beverages, tobacco products, lottery tickets, prescription medications, select OTC medications, spray paint, working weapons, R movies, and M video games.
parents would tag their kids with some kind of embedded RFID that contains a list of everything their parents don't want them exposed to. Don't have the tag? You can only get water and whole wheat organic crackers.
Christians and LDS disciples might be able to give six hundred sixty-six reasons for governments and retail associations to reject the policy of not being able to buy or sell without using what could be perceived as the mark of the beast.
If society were more open about sexual exploration
Exploration without adequate protection may likely bring babies and immunodeficiency.
and the recreational use of pharmaceuticals
Unlike liquor or tobacco, cannabis allows the smoker to force anybody else to get high by blowing smoke in the victim's face. Getting a "contact high" from secondhand marijuana smoke can make it impossible for one to safely operate a motor vehicle or other heavy machinery.
What exactly is implicit nudity? Isn't being implicitly nude like being a little bit pregnant?
The ______ Agenda
The citizens of Utah get off on extreme violence.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Isn't the old troupe that I'd rather have my children watch people make love than kill each other? Well.. at least this makes them equal. And honestly, the degree of excessive blood and gibs in some games really is pornographic. It dosen't add to the reality of the experience. It's funny. It's somewhat gratifying when you finally land a saw blade in that punk's neck and his head flies off.. but really.. it dosen't help you tell the story. good for adults. Bad for nine year olds. Better yet, if you equate it to porn, you will get more parents to pull their heads out of their asses and go "Oh.. GTA isn't appropriate for my 7 year old?" -GiH
Check This great machinima movie, it closes the subject of porn and internet, anyway for normal people :)
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
Wouldn't this make it illegal to show "the Passion" to a minor?
Have a look at answer 26
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison
Finally, they see it my way...violence is porn. I used to feel so guilty masterbating to it. Whew.
As always, there is a Penny Arcade to the rescue ::
... does any of us really know?
/ 0435233
Audience: Disregarding any social or legal problems, would you eat dead babies if you had a chance?
(crowd... laughs? uncomfortably? sort of?)
Gabe: Is this the kind of thing you guys do at MIT?
Audience: Only some of us...
Tycho: Um, I don't think that I need to eat any babies. Gabe?...
Gabe: I don't think so... but, y'know... until I'm in that situation, I guess...
(crowd laughs)
Gabe:
Tycho: You're hungry. Baby's right there...
from Penny Arcade's MIT talk transcript
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/24
Sweet! now I can legitimately whackoff to teh leet videogaimes, DoA here i come!!!!
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
Just in case someone missed it:
Banned Xbox 360 Ad
In the long run we are all dead. - John Maynard Keynes (1883 - 1946)
OMG! Killography!
I vote. I hung out and watched who went to the local poll I voted at. 30+ voters. A lot of white haired voters.
If you want the politicians to behave themselves, then you need to use that stick called voting to put them in their place.
I have five friends who moan and complain and did they vote? Nope. They went on about this "I didn't vote as a jab at the system."
Well guess what - if you don't vote that means the morons have fewer people to attract to gain power over YOU. THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO VOTE.
Go vote for a green or a third party if you don't like someone - at least they will recognize that they have people actively working against them. It is a lot harder for someone to say they have a mandate with 53% of the vote than someone with 70% of the vote could say.
From the looks of this new law, showing "inappropriate violence" to minors would be a felony, which means that every household with children would be required to get rid of all of their TVs, since almost every primetime TV show has inappropriate violence. Then kids would have to read books ("Topic of Capricorn" anyone?) and only then would our children be able to catch up to the rest of the world on science, math, and other tests.
Everybody start calling Jack Abramoff now.
no matter how bad beating the shit out of a digital rendition of a human looking bunch of pixels is, it isnt porn showing explicit nudity, unless maybe you beat the person so shitless their cloths are half tattered off, but how many times do the cloths come off a game character when you shoot em with an Uzi, M16, Kalashnikov, Barret 50 cal, M2 50cal machine gun, 20mm light tank cannon, 105mm main battle tank cannon, ect (what can I say, fps are fun)...
I am sure there are many atheists out there who would be offended to hear you say that 'religion' has invented the concept of right and wrong. If you say that, then logically you must include murder as a fabricated standard invented by 'religion', which basically says that atheists have no morals whatsoever.
Give me a break. Lots of people in this world who have no religious affiliation also have a sense of right and wrong and strive toward their sense of right. Give them some credit.
"Games are porn in Utah". Ok, so does this mean everyone in Utah defines all games (including Boggle and Scrabble) as porn? I find that suggestion to be silly. One legislator in one city is making one proposal. This does not mean that all Utahns (including myself) are behind this guy's idea. As society tries to find a balance between liberty for the partakers and liberty for the receivers, imperfect proposals like this one can and will surface. Blowing them out of proportion and stereotyping an entire group of people does nothing to advance progress.
First of all, it isn't cheap to use the ESRB. It costs a few thousand to get a rating, which hurts independent game developers a lot more than, say, EA. Now, if they agreed to accept a sliding scale based on the revenue of the company, that might work. Then EA would essentially subsidize the cost for smaller companies.
Second, this has been tried with movies. Ever hear of the MPAA? Their ratings are capricious and politicized. Extremely violent gore is ok, whereas a naked body is almost certainly a R rating. Somehow, the Passion of the Christ got through with an R rating for what essentially is a snuff film.
More recently, a movie that critizes the MPAA itself has been given an NC-17, which is the modern X rating. I wonder why the MPAA would do that?
Finally, rating systems are censorship, plain and simple. As someone before me pointed out, there are only 18 AO rated games. No one is willing to publish such games for fear of a bad rating. Since the rating system is only there to placate the government and prevent them from cracking down, this amounts to state censorship. Movies get around it all the time because they are not REQUIRED to use ratings; many of these new proposals would force games to use rating systems.
Guess the movie theatres will be pulling out of Utah then. Along with bookstores, half the prime-time television offerings, more than a few cable channels, and a handful of magazine publishers.
Now, at least, I know where not to go for a vacation...
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
"Okay with" grossly overstates it. However, given the choice between the constant increasingly obsessive negative focus SOLEY on sex, and a more widespread repression... well, yes. While politically I'm closest to libertarian, I'm ultimately a pragmatist: if something increases the likelihood of a major breakdown in society, it's generally a bad thing. As a rough analogy, it's the difference between someone who has a highly repressed personality, and one with a major obsession about something: the former is just an asshole, the latter looks more like a psychiactric breakdown about to happen. I think the signs of increased parity indicates reduced likelihood of imminent abrupt social collapse.
I'm happier in a scenario that leaves me time to finish the degree I'm working on before I have to grab my passport and flee the country.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
Finally, we can have all the "bad" stuff together:
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Violent Games, and Gambling...
There needs to be a press release or something by the ESRB and gaming companies to let people know that there's a ratings system. I mean, this same stuff was going on 10 years ago when the ratings system started. I remember an old Beavis and Butthead game with a (non-ESRB) 13+ rating.
I'm sorry but parents that don't pay attention to things like this are stupid. You need to at least know that your kids are playing a M rated game. Instead, parents like this see little Timmy killing and stealing cars in the game then flip out and start writing to their senator. Then, of course, the senator sees the letter, thinks "hmm, being vidja games must mean lots of support from parents!" and boom, we're back where we're started.
Maybe things will start to work out in a few years. Give it some time, people seem to be getting dumber. How long did it take before people figured out G(E), PG (E10), PG-13(T), R(M), and X/NC-17(AO)? It wasn't 10 years after it was started, I'm sure.
Your ad here.
I do live in Utah, and I'm at the age of 17. I work at an internet cafe that caters mostly to my High School and other High Schools in the area.
Now, a bill like this would cause my buisiness to close. We just wouldn't make enough money to actually pay our bills.
We have a large painting on our windows on front, these windows depict a fight between various science fiction and fantasy characters. No harm, but it is still violent when you look at it. Thus, my work could potentially have to remove the VERY expensive artwork that we have been working so hard to make sure it stays.
I live in a smaller city of Taylorsville, where the city government is passing so many stupid regulation against buisnesses that we have had a hard time staying in buisiness anyway. We pay taxes, I pay taxes, hell I even get to vote in the next 6 months. But if this bill were to pass at the state level, it would decimate the city that is already having difficulty.
A buisiness leaves, taking a bit of the tax base with it, causing the city government to try and make up for the lost revenue, however that only pisses off more of the smaller buisinesses here. Eventually this place will be a slum.
Not only is this bill a pain for someone like me that PAYS for his software and UNDERSTANDS that these peices of software are not real, the small minority of people that are already disturbed, cause the problem for the large majority of good upstanding teens and adults that consume this material.
Empathetic-- 94% You tend to walk in someone else's shoes a hundred miles before pointing a finger.