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MacBook is Speedy, but no FireWire 800, Modem Ports
Lam1969 writes "Yuval Kossovsky has a hands-on review of the new 15" MacBook Pro. Besides the speed improvement with the dual-core 1.83-GHz Intel processor, he likes the built-in iSight camera, "MagSafe" power connector, and better WiFi antenna placement, among other features. But he laments the loss of the modem port and FireWire 800 connectors: '[Apple] has taken away by getting rid of the FireWire 800 connector slot and the modem. FireWire 800 was left off the motherboard of the new laptop largely because it has not achieved much a following among users. ... The loss of the modem jack may be a sign of things to come. I was told that Apple had found that 90% of PowerBook owners used the 802.11g AirPort wireless card, gigabit ethernet or a Bluetooth connection to a cell modem to get network access. So for cost and package size reasons, the modem was left out.'" Update: 01/26 17:25 GMT by P : Story and headline updated to clarify that only FireWire 800 was not included on the machine; FireWire 400 is present.
For that matter, I've also never used the slot for PC cards in my PowerBook. Is the use of these slots common with other owners?
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
Now we get this "hands-on" review, but I'm not convinced anything has changed. He subjectively says the performance "cooks" -- but that's likely just the intel-happy finder. All he has is Apple's oddly vague words to go on about battery performance. The rest of it could have come from the press release about the keynote announcement.
Book's still out?
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Where't the 5.25" floppy drive?
What the article summary fails to mention is that there is still a Firewire 400 port on the Macbook. They just removed what they feel people aren't using, and that has been Apple's way for as long as I can remember.
The modem can be taken care of by an optional dongle for the system, and Firewire 800 can be added with an Express Card. If anyone needs either, they're still available.
The loss of the modem jack may be a sign of things to come. I was told that Apple had found that 90% of PowerBook owners used the 802.11g Airport wireless card, Gigabit Ethernet or a Bluetooth connection to a cell modem to get network access. So for cost and package size reasons, the modem was left out.
The loss of the modem isn't such a big deal. I've only ever used mine once (when I was moving) and it wasn't a pleasant experience. If I'd had a Wifi card, I probably would have gone to a local hotspot instead of bothering with the modem.
The nice part about the modem being left out, however, is that the Wifi card is included in the base system rather than as an add-on card. IMHO, that's a fair trade. If you really want a modem, Apple has a USB modem as an available option when you order your unit. So I'd say it's a win/win for all involved.
Unfortunately, I can't speak to the Firewire as I've never used it. Of course, that may be saying more than enough...
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Everyone - including those people who didn't get hold of a MacBook so far - could have written such a review :( He really doesn't come up with anything the informed Mac fan doesn't know already. And I really wonder what it means that the new MacBook is "exponentially faster" than the last G4 version.. having only two measurements, how did this guy manage to interpolate a non-linear function??
Georg
I've never actually used FW 800, but then again, my camera syncs via USB, and I'm not a pro photo or video guy, so the only time I even used FW 400 was for my 3G iPod. As for a modem, I haven't used one of these in like 5 or 6 years - for most people it'll be okay, though those few travelers who go into areas without broadband wired or wireless (there are still places like this, somewhere, I think), they could find a USB modem, or maybe someone will come up with an Express Card modem, though that seems unlikely.
AFAIK no reviewer that had a macbook in his hands has tried to get windows running on it, yet.
What's up? Do they have some kind of deal with apple to hide us the fact that we can't run xp (and xp games) before we all buy it and it's too late?
It's clear Apple is downplaying Firewire, quite possibly planning to drop it as a standard feature some time in the next few years, but they haven't gone the whole way yet.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Yeah, damnit, how am I meant to read my core memory now???!? Also, I demand an audio cassette drive! And an LP deck. How dare they remove my perfectly good ancient tech?!
One potential use for the MacBook's PC card slot is to add a FireWire 800 port, or a modem port. I've personally never had the use for either on my laptop. The MacBook does have a FireWire 400 port, contrary to the title of the Slashdot article.
Doug Moen
I have written a truly remarkable program which this sig is too small to contain.
So for the single digit percentage of folks that need support for a modem they could go with an external USB modem, like Firewire 800 there's just not the demand for either of these, so it makes sense to drop them. In this vein the reviewer could bemoan the lack of a 100Meg Zip drive, a BNC connector or an AT keyboard plug ;)
Ok, sorry, just kidding. Really though, I'd like to have a laptop where even the cdrom is option; so there would not be a cdrom slot on the system, you'd have to install via a external USB/firewire cdrom, and then not have to worry about the xtra weight that *I* never use. Again, there's a big market of folks that want a Souper-drive on their Mac's, so they're not going anywhere but for me it's just wasted weight.
fak3r.com
How did this guy's post get modded redundant? It's one of the very first posts to the story. Sometimes I don't know about the people that get mod points...
A PC slot (with appropriate adaptor) is a fast way to download data off memory cards from digital cameras. Such a system is both faster and more convenient for people that take large numbers of photos (photos on multiple cards) or who want to give the memory card to a coworker for processing (one person takes the photos while a second person uploads/processes them for the public).
I know I'll miss the PC card slot until card makers will come up with adapter cards for the new ExpressCard/34 slot.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
... Intel's standard chip set doesn't support it.
It's that simple, Apple had no part to play in that decision.
I haven't used dialup in more than 4 years, and I'm yet to see a Firewire 800 device in the wild. Fw800 is for all intents and purposes, dead as fried chicken. Starting with the retarded, backwards-incompatible connector.
The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
They could've added their own chip, driving up costs, weight and heat, while decreasing battery lifetime.
... and with a laptop, I don't want to go carrying around even more cables. I would like to see FW800 on the iMac mini, though, so I can get better disk performance than the internal.
It probably would have also increased the time to market.
So, they had a part to play, and in this case, they might've made the right decision -- the older laptops w/ FW800 are still on the market, and I would assume that Apple's going to push for support in the future.
Personally, I don't like FW800, as it uses a completely different connection and cable than FW400, unlike the various USB specs, and the various ethernet specs using RJ45 plugs
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
First the modem should be there as it adds very little to the cost and is present in many chipsets. Laptops are about NOT having to carry accessories. While FW800 may be excused as FW400 is there I can't give them a pass on the modem.
Many times I find the following situation, no wireless and no lan. This means modems. Yeah some hotels have internet I can connect to via lan but that still isn't widespread, or should I say widespread in hotels some business will pay for. Same goes for wireless.
If I am taking a laptop on business all I should need is the laptop, the power cord, and the case to carry it. I don't want to have a section for "exceptions". If I have one of those then I bought the wrong laptop.
This is a "PRO" model, by name it implies it will provide me everything I could use that is reasonable. That modem is far more valuable than a gimmick of a camera. Hell I already carry a digital camera around and I am sure I can use it in place of iSight (which seems more suitable to teens playing with IM and IV)
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
"This afternoon, Apple invited some journalists at a presentation of its new products at EBC in Paris. If we weren't invited, we had some "unofficial"correspondants attending.
And they did ask Apple about the new notebooks' battery life.
Their answer is quite interesting: the machines that were demoed are only prototypes and the final versions are still under development. They thus don't have any hard numbers on the battery life of the final products.
The disappearance of FW800 has also been discussed: Apple said it would have required them toi build a specific FW800 card (Intel does not support it), and that they had no plans for it [moose: well, down the drain goes Apple's autonomy to innovate.]
Let's hope they hurry up and finalize (but not rush out) their machines before the official release date (within a month.)"
from www.hardmac.com
Personally, I think apple should have made a ipod pro that used firewire 800, had a bigger screen (landscape maybe) and a larger hard drive. This whole intel switch is a mess. We better get a 64 bit processor when they release the pro machines or else I'll never beleive anything Jobs says ever again. Now we have a 64 bit OS with a 32 bit processor. Explain the logic behind that?
Do we know if its a two button mouse on them?
Floppies come in 5.25 now? Cool these 8.5's take up way too much space!
I'me very unconvinced that an article subtitled "This baby cooks" is good for Apple's PR! After all, the temperature from the much touted G5 Powerbook was one major reason for the shift to Intel in the first place.
Why bother? The iMac and MacBook Pro are essentially the exact same system. If people are turning their iMacs into bricks why risk it with a MacBook Pro unless you're some almighty hacker that can create a wrapper to get EFI to work with a BIOS based OS?
"I tried to install XP on my MacBook Pro and it didn't work," is no more impressive than "I tried to install my XP on my iMac and it didn't work."
sig.
And FireWire is going to be around for quite some time.
As long as all DV and HDV cameras and decks use FireWire for DV transport, FireWire isn't going anywhere on Macs, including "consumer" Macs, since half of iLife (iMovie, iDVD), and the continuing major selling point for the SuperDrive, rest on the ability to get DV into the machine.
And no, USB isn't a substitute on DV cameras. USB is only included to transfer things from the internal memory card, usually still images and crappy digital-still-camera-like video. To transfer DV, you must use FireWire. (Now, could the industry eventually agree upon a collective standard mechanism for DV video transfer via USB? Will something eventually replace FireWire? Sure. But that's not going to happen for a long time.)
And indeed, ExpressCard/34 FireWire 800 cards are on the way, for people who really need FireWire 800:
MacBook Pro #4: FireWire 800 cards for ExpressCard/34 slot on the way
We previously reported that Apple has opted to omit the FireWire 800 port from its new MacBook Pro line. We also noted that various firms already offer ExpressCard FireWire 800 adapters, but there's a catch -- so far the cards are only available in the 54 mm ExpressCard standard, not the 34 mm standard Apple uses.
We've now received anonymous word from a major peripheral manufacturer indicating that FireWire 800 cards for the ExpressCard/34 slot are on the way.
The firm told MacFixIt:
"We do not have an estimated release date, but we are currently working on a couple of ExpressCard solutions (1394b being one of them). We, like other companies have an ExpressCard/54 cards and all we need to do is down-size them into the ExpressCard/34 form factor
"We expect to begin testing our cards within the next 2-3 weeks, and if all goes well, we could see production not long afterwards."
Oh Geez! No FireWire 800!!? What am I going to do... I'll have to use the insufferable FireWire 400 at ONLY 50 MB/sec.
I can't believe there's no PCI Express x16 slot either! How am I going to install my GeForce 7800GT?
The article is right; there is no FW800 port. There IS a FW400 port but no FW800.
Q: I am short, useless and provide no value. What am I? A: a sig
It is my understanding that the reason the FireWire 800 port is absent on the new MacBook Pro is that the Intel chipset they're using doesn't support it. To have FireWire 800 support, Apple would have to provide a custom chipset capable of supporting it. Since Apple doesn't exactly have fab capabilities, it's not on the MacBook. Also, it's been suggested by others -- and quite rightly, I think -- that most customers weren't using the FireWire 800 port on the PowerBook. For the benefit it would provide, building FireWire 800 into the MacBook seems prohibitively expensive. Now the Power Mac may be an entirely different story.
If it's not one thing it's your mother.
I know that I would never consider a laptop (especially a grossly overpriced laptop) that doesn't have a built in modem. It's not because of snobbery, but because I often have to use a modem to connect to the Net.
Yeah, and when you're hardwired into a phone line, a very small swelling at one end of the wire is such a huge price to pay for connectivity. I mean, c'mon. You already have to supply the wire itself, what's the big deal about chipping in another $10-20 for a USB modem?
Integrating wireless devices into the laptop makes sense. The whole point of being wireless is to be unencumbered by "clutter." Integrating a wired adapter, especially one that few people use, doesn't really add any benefit. I'd say that they could do the same with the Ethernet jack if it wasn't for the fact that USB ethernet adapters are considerably more expensive and less standardized - oh, and the fact that a much larger percentage of the population uses them.
If you connect to the 'net over a modem at home, have you tried the Airport base station with the built in modem? We set this up for some friends of ours and it worked really well, giving them mobility and convenience without requiring broadband.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
Not overpriced by any stretch of the imagination. The same features from Gateway will cost you the same amount of money, if not a little bit more. Compare before you blather on endlessly about things you clearly know nothing about.
There's nothing wrong with connecting a dial-up modem over USB, either. My (rev A) iMac modem died when the telephone lines outside got hit by lightning. £100 in the apple shop to get it fixed. An extra £20 on an external modem to take the shock in the first place would have been a fantastic investment.
The comment was made about the headline you fucking halfwit retard. RTFH!!!! Fucking twits.
Apple's USB modem is tiny, smaller than an iPod shuffle. I'm sure you'll also be able to get an ExpressCard modem (so it can be "in" the machine and not an extra part to carry). Sure people still need modems, but the number of those using them is shrinking. And since there's a reasonable external solution why continue to build it into the machine?
While many modem users may be shocked by the lack of a built-in modem, this move is probably less radical than it seems, just like ditching the floppy drive. Everyone couldn't imagine a machine without a floppy, but it didn't hurt Apple at all. I think replacing the PC Card slot with an ExpressCard slot is much more extreme, since that obsoletes hardware people have.
...while a PCMCIA card reader will be completely flush. Makes a big difference, you can just leave the card stuck in there permenantly and you don't notice it at all.
Yeah, that modem is about as useful as the floppy drive.
Get over it already.
Or, rather, $49. If you can afford a 'book you can afford that, and it's small enough that you can leave it connected to your phone cable.
people are lamenting the loss of the PC card slot, but they are forgetting that the MacBook is not yet shipping. at the same MacWorld where the MacBook was announced there were plenty of vendors saying they will have ExpressCard versions of stuff ready when the MacBook is. offhand Verizon was there talking about an Expresscard EVDO, and claimed it would ship by the time the MacBook does.
i am sure there will be plenty of Expresscard adapters for camera flash memory as well. i don't know if there is a need for an expresscard modem when there is a USB dongle already available. if you have to plug in a phone line, then putting an adapter inline doesn't seem like a big deal, and you can keep your card slot open.
i will say of all the people i personally know with powerbooks, i only know of one person that uses their PC card slot and that is for internet access while traveling (by van) around the country with his band (and still being able to work since he's online the whole time).
I wonder: can I see this MacBook Pro as a notebook version of the iMac, or are there significant differences in speed?
-- Cheers!
Yeah, even I wrote one such "review". But never said it cooked (other than maybe the extra heat...)
Everything isn't about politics. Apple's management felt the public was ready for Intel Macs, and better they beta test the new platform in its most basic form, than try to do everything at once and guarantee embarrassing press if anything fails.
There will be power user desktop Intel Macs before there are power user laptops. This is entirely consistent with [insert computer manufacturer name here]'s history.
The actual sadness over losing a modem port is fax functionality. I regularly file claims with the managers of my medical flexible spending program, but to put this into context I'm faxing scans of physical documents which means a desktop box hooked to a flatbed scanner (a scenario less likely with laptops).
"Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on
...and has always catered to the very wealthy.
Yeah. Very wealthy. There's no way someone like a college student has ever been able to afford Apple hardware. Never!
Get a new troll, you lazy fucktard.
I think they left the modem off because it was stupid to have one. The only time I used dialup since 1996 was when I visited the US in 2001, and again in 2004. It's not hard to find wireless networks to use, and broadband has been the rule of the law in Canada for many years.
I don't want a modem on my machine because they represent an era that is over. WiFi internet, or Bluetooth to my cell phone, are easy enough to use when I want to deal with data transfers. A little ethernet cable will also connect me if only wired networks are in range. Modems transfer data so glacially slow, they're a non-issue.
That Apple doesn't have it, means they don't have to have an engineer integrate it into the system, or provide the chipset with power, etc. I was really surprised that, as the company that went to USB so full-force, they still had the modem jack on their machines. Thankfully they've realized their mistake.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I got a bunch of firewire 800 disk drives. If they want me to buy another Apple, they are gonna have to put the FW800 back in.
:(
Otherwise I will be writing a "Why I gave up on Apple" article in my blog.
This is the most ridiculous statement I've seen about Apple for a long time. If this is truly what they're doing, why are they selling more computers in the last few years? Not to mention the iPod.
Now, apparently, they're only catering to customers that live in modern, urban or massively suburban areas that have wireless everywhere.
It's been said before: you can buy a modem for the damn thing. If you can afford a $2000 computer, you can probably afford a $50 modem. Also, it's not like they cut out the ethernet port. So now Apple must be catering to urban, large suburban, small suburban, and a large percentage of small towns. My hometown is in west-central Minnesota (pop 1,000), which is 2 and 1/2 hours away from an "urban and massively suburban" area. You can get DSL there, as you can in many towns that size.
But really, this is nothing new... Apple has really always been bleeding edge, and has always catered to the very wealthy.
Again, ridiculous.
Apple does sell a USB modem. If you need one, you can always buy it with your MacBook.
Here's why:
a) The figures say that more than 90% of Powerbook users have broadband or WLAN access. Out of the rest, deduct anybody with a Bluetooth GSM phone. I know I haven't used the analog modem in my Powerbook in the three years I've been using one. GPRS worked fine from day one.
b) Anybody who's whining about having to carry an extra peripheral hasn't ever seen Apple's USB modem. This is not a 1995 14.4 modem block with power supply, phone plug, and serial port. This thing weighs NOTHING, is smaller than your thumb, and disappears disappears bulk-wise in relation to the six-foot cable it will be perpetually attached to.
Firewire 800, however, is a different matter. There is as yet no replacement that doesn't render existing gear unusable, and I know a fair number of studios running off Firewire stuff that need the bandwidth to share among several devices. A number will be able to go the ExpressCard route for FW 800, but there a plenty whose laptop-based studios rely upon both FW 800 and CardBus devices...
He's asking a legitimate question so I don't see why he should be modded down as Troll. A second mouse button would be really useful for anyone wanting to run Windows on their MacBook.
:-) Whoops!
Imagine calling tech support, and them saying: 'Please right-click on my computer'
Unfortunately, from the pictures I've seen it seems they still have only one button so there'll have to be a software solution for right-clicking or something.
Until of course you want to copy the files to a computer without a PCMCIA sot. Then your screwed.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Having a modem is like having insurance, you hope not to need it, but when you find that you do need it, you're very glad of it.
Now I'm the first to admit that I rarely use the modem in my PowerBook, but nearly every time that I have used it has been when I expected some sort of broad band service to have been available. If all else fails, you can get a dial-up connection almost anywhere and you can borrow a lead to connect from the local telephone point to a modem too.
My PowerBook has to be squeezed into space with other important stuff. It's simply not practical to take all my accessories with me. The chances are that if I needed a USB modem, it wouldn't be with me, but a built-in modem is always there when you need it.
I like the PCMCIA slots. I've always kept a compact flash reader in mine. If I take a photograph and want to see it on a larger screen, it's easy to pop the card straight onto the PowerBook, you don't need to find that strange USB adaptor lead that came with the camera. As the card reader lives entirely within the slot, you'd hardly know it was there - until you unexpectedly want it.
An ExpressCard slot would be equally acceptable for me, a card reader would almost certainly live in there. But it wouldn't be suitable for a modem as the slot is only 5mm high and if you need to use the modem unexpectedly, the card is unlikely to have a standard phone socket, so you'll still need a special lead, which you probably won't have with you.
I think that the lack of a modem is something that has come from people who move from home to office and on to smart hotels, with WiFi in Starbucks and GPRS for other places. They assume that users spend all their time in the city and never travel to rural areas, or even ( dare I say it ? ) travel abroad !
For some of us who live in the real world, the lack of a modem is a very serious omission.
Also missing is the dual layer Superdrive found on the latest Powerbooks.
Some enterprising company should come up with a USB flash drive that has a built-in modem. Maybe something that'd snap onto an iPod shuffle, with a passthrough USB connector.
Or perhaps a replacement power brick with a built-in USB modem. Or maybe just a fabric power brick sleeve with a pocket for the modem.
Or maybe a 3rd-party replacement battery for the MacBook Pro with a compartment for the modem - give up some battery life, but you'd have the modem handy at all times.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
If you see Apple's own SPEC benchmarks for each machine, you'll see that the MacBook Pro has SPECint_rate_base2000 rating of 30.3 and SPECfp_rate_base2000 of 25.6, compared to 32.6 (7.59% higher) and 27.1 (5.85% higher) for the iMac, respectively.
Not that CPU synthetic benchmarks are really something to write home about. But I'd say they do show the difference is not significant. Other components such as the HDD could make the experience different, but you can also change that using a 7200 RPM drive, which could actually be faster than its desktop counterpart, given the higher density on the platter and shorter seeks.
- Otaku no naka no otaku, otaking da!!!
No dual layer superdrive on the new MacBook Pros. A major flaw from what I can tell...
Intel doesn't offer FireWire 800 chipsets is why there is no FireWire 800 on the MacBook Pro. Theoretically, Intel will start to offer this feature and it will appear on future pro Macs along with the 64-bit versions of the Core CPU's.
god damn you apple!! 400 is not fast enough for me to move around all my pr0n... guess I'll have to invest in that X-san
The primary use for me was just to have the PC Card stuck in the slot permanently so that I could transfer pictures off my camera. Of course all computers made would have had a single memory card slot built in for the last five years if everyone could have agreed on a single memory card standard.
Personally I think the actual reason the MacBook Pro has no FW800 ports is simply because Intel still doesn't make onboard FW800 controllers yet.