Slashdot Mirror


Libraries Say DRM May Harm Their Services

Ernest Adams writes "The BBC is reporting that the British Library is concerned about DRM's effect on its ability to make materials available to the public. Libraries have a legal right to distribute materials under the Fair Use provisions of the copyright law, but DRM systems may block this. Furthermore, they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright. DRM systems may allow copyright holders to retain control over their material longer than they are legally entitled to. Worse yet, if the software no longer exists to unlock a DRM-protected file, its contents may be lost forever -- exactly the thing libraries are intended to prevent." We've discussed stories like this before.

214 comments

  1. Well, duh by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 4, Funny

    Libraries have a legal right to distribute materials under the Fair Use provisions of the copyright law, but DRM systems may block this.... DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright.

    Article summary provided by the Department of Obviousness Department

    1. Re:Well, duh by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Reaction to the article provided by the "Public outrage that should happen, but doesn't" Department.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    2. Re:Well, duh by lbrandy · · Score: 1

      Article summary provided by the Department of Obviousness Department

      First post provided by the Department of Constant Confusion between Obviousness and Redundancy.

    3. Re:Well, duh by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      The juxtaposition is part of the joke. Like "jailarity"

    4. Re:Well, duh by mikeplokta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not obvious at all. DRM systems don't turn themselves off upon copyright expiry, but they could do so. They could be legally required to do so, and it could be illegal to use any DRM system that continued to prevent copying beyond the copyright expiry date, if our legislatures weren't in the pockets of the big media companies.

    5. Re:Well, duh by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Gosh- I would never do it, because I don't get to the library as much as I would like...
      But my library has a very extensive CD collection, including a lot of expensive boxed sets that are available for 2 week checkout. They also have a lot of new and mainstream stuff. (When I was younger, the library in my town had a lot of Bob Denver and classical music that I wasn't interested in at the time)
      If someone wanted to load up their iPod or iTunes or whatever with thousands of songs, the library would be a good place to utilize.
      I wonder how long before the RIAA sues libraries to see who is checking out a lot of music... Or how long before they demand that all media available at libraries is heavily DRM-ed.
      Reminds me of Shawshenk Redemption, when Andy says that the songs are in his head, and they can never take them away...

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    6. Re:Well, duh by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How? That might be worse than the DRM itself.

      You could have the MP3 package check the system time every time you try to play it, and if the year is 20XX + 95, it allows playback. But, as anyone who's played Rise of the Triads knows, it takes only a simple DOS command to make I.P. Freely and the others play with santa hats on.

      Of course, if the content providers decided to go through with this, they would insist on having each file "phone home" to an unimpeachable server to check on an official time before authorizing the unlock. But don't worry, I'm sure a backround process logging each and every DRM'd file you've opened on your PC won't end up being sold to recoup the costs of the system.

    7. Re:Well, duh by aconkling · · Score: 1

      If someone wanted to load up their iPod or iTunes or whatever with thousands of songs, the library would be a good place to utilize.

      You're right about the library's selection; even a small library can afford many budget classical CDs, a lot of which are rather classic performances that are quite cheap and sound good on CD. There was a period of time when I felt it morally wrong to use P2P to download music, but I still felt OK ripping library CDs. The problem was that many of the CDs at my local library are very badly scratched, so much so that a full third of them have significant portions that are unlistenable. I always wondered why the library didn't make a backup CD and then release that to the public, so they'd have the original in case of damage or loss.

      I wonder how long before [...] they demand that all media available at libraries is heavily DRM-ed.

      That'd be a pity, huh? These days I use the libraries to hear new classical music, or new performances of some favorites (there's always more to hear!) so that I can buy them if I like them (Amazon.com samples do little justice to many classical performances) but if DRM hits the libraries, there's really no chance of this idea of a backup for the sake of quality. So yeah, yet another potential avenue that could (at least for me) alienate the listener.*

      * Remember folks, the listener is the buyer.

    8. Re:Well, duh by badfish99 · · Score: 0
      This wouldn't work.

      A DRM system that turned itself off on a set date could be circumvented by just changing the date on your computer to some time in the future. It would therefore be useless for its intended purpose.

    9. Re:Well, duh by mrogers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't have to be done in a privacy-invading manner (although I agree that it probably would be). For example, the DRM chip on the motherboard could contain its own clock, with clock skew being corrected on a weekly basis using signed updates from a network of time servers. You can also get a time signal anonymously from GPS, and there's a land-based radio time signal in the UK.

    10. Re:Well, duh by MajinBlayze · · Score: 1
      And this is a problem?

      The point of DRM is to keep honest people honest. We all know that it will be _plausible_ for someone to eventually crack the code of any DRM.

      I for one am in favor of this.
      --
      "Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all the time." Danny Vinyard -American History X
    11. Re:Well, duh by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      Motherboard manufacturers have nothing to do with the MPAA/RIAA. Why would they spend extra time/work/research/troubleshooting/angsty customers to help them out?

    12. Re:Well, duh by sootman · · Score: 1

      >> DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright.

      > Article summary provided by the Department of Obviousness Department

      Actually, this is the kind of thing that is very much not obvious to the average Joe. 99% of people really do walk around with ideas like "what's wrong with cavity searches before flights? if you're not doing anything wrong, you shouldn't have anything to hide" and "what's wrong with DRM? copyright holders should be allowed to protect their work!" At first glance, DRM makes sense to most people. We need a lot of these scenarios on the tops of our minds to tell people and give them these kinds of "oh, right" moments. We need people yelling this from the mountaintops daily if we're ever going to win this war. Only when things like this are obvious to non-Slashdotters will we have a chance.

      I'm currently working on an anti-copy-protection document--something that will be about one page long and have lots of good reasons for average people to reject schemes like this. Check it out in my journal and add examples if you have any.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    13. Re:Well, duh by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      It's not obvious at all. DRM systems don't turn themselves off upon copyright expiry, but they could do so. They could be legally required to do so, and it could be illegal to use any DRM system that continued to prevent copying beyond the copyright expiry date, if our legislatures weren't in the pockets of the big media companies.

      Ah, but remember, the media companies are constantly trying to extend their copyright term.

      They're not going to release something now which expires in the current statutory term -- because they hope by the end of the current term they'll have extended it again.

      Look at how old Steam-Boat Mickey is . Do you think Di$ney is going to release something which will unlock itsself in any meaningful period? Not likely.

      Media companies also don't accept the idea of 'fair use', and if they're forced to accept it, they figure they're not obligated to help. Their position on the fact that libraries are being penalized by this is that "we may have to concede your right to use it, but we won't help you get it." And since they bought the DMCA, it's illegal for a library to try to work around it.

      Sucks, don't it?
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    14. Re:Well, duh by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's true. People, in general, act in their own best interests up until the point where force (law or societal taboos) offer strong enough resistance.

      Most Americans don't mind spreading their cheeks for inspection at the airport because they beleive its worth it to "eliminate" the chance of getting all blowed up. The arabian exchange student in line behind them, who had the misfortune of forgetting to leave his lighter at home and must now spend a year or two in a PMITA prison, is seen as collateral damage for their own safety.

      With pirating, though, the same effect applies. People want music for free. They realize the chance of them getting caught are low, so its worth it to go ahead.

    15. Re:Well, duh by bigpat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They could be legally required to do so, and it could be illegal to use any DRM system that continued to prevent copying beyond the copyright expiry date, if our legislatures weren't in the pockets of the big media companies.

      And it could be made illegal to use DRM at all, as I believe it should. If you want legal Copyright protection then your content should be copyable, otherwise it is like asking for a patent but keeping how your invention works a secret. Unrestrained DRM sacrifices our legitamite right to copy other peoples work.

    16. Re:Well, duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always wondered why the library didn't make a backup CD and then release that to the public, so they'd have the original in case of damage or loss.

      I can't even imagine how we would find the time to do this for all the CDs we own or buy. It wouldn't just be the cost of staff time to do it, but we'd also have to have somewhere secure to store the originals, pay for blank CD-Rs, and make sure we process the copy and prepare it for the shelf every time the circulating copy was ruined. In terms of "in case of loss," we couldn't just make a new copy anyways. Essentially what a library does is purchase an item that it then shares. This is perfectly legal as no copies are made. If a patron loses or steals the CD, though, we can't just crank out another one, because then essentially two or more people have our CD and we have just created a copy for other-than-backup purposes.

      I know some libraries are trying out d_skins for their DVDs. I'm hoping that might help with the "I can't manage to actually take care of my items" patrons.

      And shame on you for copying library CDs. :P

    17. Re:Well, duh by mrogers · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe you should ask the members of the Trusted Computing Group.

    18. Re:Well, duh by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1
      When I was younger, the library in my town had a lot of Bob Denver and classical music that I wasn't interested in at the time.

      I think you mean John Denver. Remember

      Bob Denver = Gilligan/Maynard G. Krebs

      John Denver=Rocky Mountain High/noted pilot

      If Bob Denver ever made an album, it was probably a specialty album like Gilligan Sings the Hits (with Mary Ann) or Maynard G. Krebs' Favorite Bongo Solos. Though if your library did have a selection including stuff like that, it would be pretty cool.

      --
      That is all.
    19. Re:Well, duh by bigpat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just wrote my congressman:

      Mr. Tierney,

      The battle over intellectual property laws has brought to light many issues of inequality in our society. Big corporate entities account for vast swaths of ownership of intellectual property, creating a dynamic of ever increasing inequality of information, where the interests of the individual are put at an inferior position to the interests of the corporation.

      One thing that could be done to stop the spread of this inequality is to pass a law prohibiting the use of DRM (Digital Rights Management) technology on works that receive legal copyright protection. Analogously this is already the case with patent law which requires a patent seeker to disclose full information about the method or device they wish to patent. Otherwise it is considered a trade secret where the people retain their legal right to reverse engineer the method or device. Likewise by making the method of copying a secret by means of DRM, content producers erect a barrier to fair use of the content. With DRM, Libraries are prevented from archiving published works in an easily reproducible form, threatening the loss of an entire generation's productive work to the ravages of time. And DRM prevents individuals from copying the content which is their right after the expiration of the copyright under law. By preventing these and other fair uses under copyright law, DRM has broken the bargain that copyright laws have traditionally struck.

      Digital technology certainly allows much more than was ever foreseen by preceding generations. But the principle of copyright remains one of give and take; society gives content creators the protection of our laws for a period of time, and after that period of time has ellapsed the content creators then have given their work to society for its perpetual use, or forever long we see value in its reproduction. With DRM content creators are attempting to have their cake and eat it too.

      By preventing legitimate copying, use of DRM should forfeit a content producer's right to legally prevent others from copying. If content is protected by technology, then it should receive no benefit of protection by laws.

      Therefore, certain provisions of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act should be repealed and new legislation should make it clear that if you use DRM, then you do not have a copyright.

      Thank You,

    20. Re:Well, duh by squidfood · · Score: 1
      Their position on the fact that libraries are being penalized by this is that "we may have to concede your right to use it, but we won't help you get it."

      And they shouldn't have to help. Let's say I self-publish a book. I print paper copies, and put a copy in an encrypted filesystem on my computer, and send encrypted copies along with the encryption keys to people who pay me. When copyright expires, anyone can take the paper copy and make more, but why should I be required to supply encryption keys to anyone who asks?

      And since they bought the DMCA, it's illegal for a library to try to work around it.

      This is the real point. If I don't give out my keys, out of copyright others should be allowed to try and break it.

    21. Re:Well, duh by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      Would you mind if I lift that and publish it on my website?
      It really is quite well written.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    22. Re:Well, duh by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      You know, you're right -- DRM could be "fair" (for some limited definition of fair). And monkeys could fly out of my ass and beat me to death with infinite numbers of IBM model-M keyboards.

      But considering that neither is at all likely to happen, how about we just skip the hypothetical bullshit and realize that DRM is here solely for the purpose of killing Fair Use and be done with it, eh?

      It's hard enough to fight against Big Media pushing DRM; it doesn't help to have people like you confusing the issue with stuff like "well, in [insert parallel universe here] it wouldn't be so bad..."!

      Alrighty then?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    23. Re:Well, duh by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      When copyright expires, anyone can take the paper copy and make more, but why should I be required to supply encryption keys to anyone who asks?
      Because this case isn't like books in that there is no unencrypted copy.

      Of course, that's irrelevant. The more important reason is that you were granted that monopoly by the people, and we expect you to hold up your end of the bargain in return! And that bargain is* that the work must become available in the preferred form for making changes.

      *or, at least, would be if the Framers had known about machine-readable media that required transformation before use.
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    24. Re:Well, duh by bigpat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Please use the content of my message freely.

      Though I suggest you paraphrase if you or anyone else chooses to contact your representative yourself. They tend not to appreciate form letters.

    25. Re:Well, duh by acroyear · · Score: 1

      how would such stuff know that something is out of copyright? does it make the assumption of 75 years past author's death (or whatever the corporate policy is these days) and thus come out wrong the next time Disney gets Congress to pass the Sonny Bono Memorial Copyright Extention Act #2?

      does it mean that all software has to connect to some copyright database (that doesn't exist) to determine the status of things?

      its an impossible problem.

      --
      "But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
      -- Joe
    26. Re:Well, duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      how about we just skip the hypothetical bullshit and realize that DRM is here solely for the purpose of killing Fair Use and be done with it, eh?

      How about getting a grip on reality, first?

      Piracy != fair use.

    27. Re:Well, duh by arminw · · Score: 1

      ...."phone home" to an unimpeachable server ....

      And what makes anyone think such a server will still exist even 25 years, let alone 75+ years from now?

      No, the real solution is to outlaw all DRM and allow all copying that does not result in material gain or profit. Coupled with that, lock up anyone who profits with real income, for the duration left yet on the copyrights violated, running consecutively if there are several such copyrights involved. After the culprit(s) has sat in the slammer for a minimum of time, he/she may appeal to the rights holder for mercy and be let out early.

      Let the casual Joe public whom the **AA now sues go, but put the ones who cause real loss to the creative artists away for a long time. Confiscating all their assets can also be used. In short, let anyone who copies for profit know it's not worth doing. Someone copying their CDs onto their iPod and the iPods of family members or making a copy of a DVD movie onto their laptop, so they don't have to drag the disk with them should be allowed. It is generally done today anyway, so why not make it legal?

      --
      All theory is gray
    28. Re:Well, duh by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      No, the real solution is to outlaw all DRM and allow all copying that does not result in material gain or profit. Coupled with that, lock up anyone who profits with real income, for the duration left yet on the copyrights violated, running consecutively if there are several such copyrights involved. After the culprit(s) has sat in the slammer for a minimum of time, he/she may appeal to the rights holder for mercy and be let out early.

      The only thing wrong with that is that it would also need to contain some wording re the lost profits to the copyright holders that was a direct result of someone giveing other person(s) copy(s) of a cd. Say a fiver for each cd burnt & passed along. And make it clear that that is the total extent of the damages they can claim. This bs of charging everyone 3500-20k dollars for one provable cd is pure stuff, fresh and still steaming.

      Likewise, if the defendant is adjudged not guilty, the plaintiff then gets to do the same time for sueing under false pretenses and pay his own costs for keep to boot so society doesn't have to support the scum. That would certainly level the playing field after a bit due to a shortage of lawyers not in jail. And I expect it would improve jail conditions as a side effect too, for at least as long as the crooked lawyer still had an account to support him(her)self in the manner to which they've become accustomed. After that, or if the partner sues for divorce and cleans out the joint account, well things are tough all over... :)

      This is otherwise the best proposal to come down the pike in quite a while. But because it would be the ultimate in fairness to all concerned, with no great profit to be made by the legal beagles, you can bet you whatever it will never reach a reading in any government house on the planet.

      And thats too bad. But its a hell of an idea whose time has come nonetheless.

      --
      Cheers, Gene

    29. Re:Well, duh by JasonTik · · Score: 1

      I will create a GPS simulator that lies about the true time, and have my DRM chip use that. This method isnt as secure as some companies would like, especially if such a device is mass produced.

      Signed updates from timeservers would work fine, but will require:
      A) Changes to current timeservers, which may or may not be easily or quickly implemented
      B) That companies run their own timeservers, which if serving many users, will be somewhat expensive.

    30. Re:Well, duh by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      Except that if the music is a "work for hire" (which under a "technical ammendment" introduced by Mitch Glazier, a sound recording now can be, yay for corrupt lobbying!) it would technicly be under the ownership of the company, and thus have a fixed date (although yeah, if there's another copyright extension act, it's all screwed up, although at that point any validity about copyrights in the eyes of a reasonable person should be gone). Either way, though, I don't see companies bothering to do this, and I don't see the possiblity of a law, given the massive lobbying. However, society will eventually change, so just like photocopiers, p2p will eventually gain overall acceptance, probably about the time that all the teenagers of today become lawmakers.

    31. Re:Well, duh by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Absolutly brilliant idea!!!

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    32. Re:Well, duh by fabioaquotte · · Score: 1
      ... DRM systems don't turn themselves off upon copyright expiry, ...

      Don't worry, the DRM people are going to address this by changing the law so that copyright never expires.

      --
      Fabio Aquotte
  2. Obligatory UK note by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

    We don't have "fair use" in UK copyright law, at least not in the sense it's usually used around here to refer to the exemptions in the US.

    However, a small number of national reference libraries in the UK, including the British Library, have a special legal right to claim a free copy of works published in the UK.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Obligatory UK note by Gumshoe · · Score: 2, Informative

      In English Law it's called "Fair Dealing" and unless I'm misunderstanding something it's "Fair Use" in all but name.

      Sections 28-76 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 lists the exceptions to infringing acts laid out in section 16. In a nutshell, copyright is not infringed in instances of using the work for research, private study, for criticism, for review or for news reporting. There are also exceptions for educational and library use.

      Also, there are some exceptions relating to computer programs laid out in Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992. The most important exceptions allow for decompilation and the making of backup copies.

      Do the "Fair Use" provisions in US law differ significantly?

    2. Re:Obligatory UK note by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Informative

      We do actually, as codified in the 2005 amendment to the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act, section Part 1, Chapter 3, Section 29 "Research and private study."

      The same act, Part 5, Chapter 48, section 296ZE "Remedy where effective technological measures prevent permitted acts", allows action to be taken where DRM blocks acts permitted under law.

    3. Re:Obligatory UK note by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

      The US fair use and UK fair dealing provisions are broadly similar, but the US version is rather more generous in what it (theoretically, in light of subsequent legislation) allows. However, the way national reference libraries are supported, which is what we're talking about here, is covered by its own little bit of law in the UK, not under the general fair whatever exemptions that anyone can use. (IIRC, in the US the Library of Congress has similar rights, but you'd have to ask someone better informed about the details.)

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:Obligatory UK note by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I hadn't come across that one. The remedy section has all kinds of interesting implications...

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    5. Re:Obligatory UK note by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually in the UK you do have a fair use right. In the USA there is no fair use right but there is a fair use defence. However in the UK it is not legal to make, say, a copy of record onto tape for use in a car, as the fair use right is restricted to certain specific purposes, such as using part of a work for educational purposes.

  3. Good points by MustardMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The librarians are making some good points about further flaws in DRM. I'm glad to see the media finally starting to pick up on this and report stories about the dark side of DRM. Now if we could only get more mentions of it on THIS side of the pond, maybe people other than the technically adept will start to get pissed about DRM and force some change.

    OK, not likely, but a guy can dream, can't he?

    1. Re:Good points by Billosaur · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "We have grave concerns about the potential use of DRMs by rightholders to override existing copyright exceptions," its statement said.

      In the long term, the restrictions would not expire when a work went out of copyright, it said, and it may be impossible to trace the rights holders by that time.

      "It is probable that no key would still exist to unlock the DRMs," Laca said. "For libraries this is serious.

      So copyright law be damned. Slap some DRM on your work and it's yours for perpetuity, even after the copyright expires, simply by "losing" the key. Convenient.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    2. Re:Good points by m50d · · Score: 1

      I don't think you could gain anything that way - if you're selling copies, you clearly do have the key.

      --
      I am trolling
    3. Re:Good points by badfish99 · · Score: 1

      If you're selling copies, you've got a good incentive to not give anyone else the key. If your DRM is really unbreakable and there's no law that forces you to give up that key, you can keep your monopoly on selling copies forever.

    4. Re:Good points by m50d · · Score: 1

      My point is you can't claim to have lost said key if you're selling copies.

      --
      I am trolling
    5. Re:Good points by siriuskase · · Score: 1

      The loss of material, intelligent or otherwise to the "permanent copyright" is an enormous consideration. An idea is that publishers or electronic media be required to produce a "library edition" which would be completely unprotected by DRM. The libraries, for their part of the bargain, might agree that this be uncirculating, or of limited circulation.

      I can already anticipate the flaws, that the library edition would need price and purchase controls, that a work that doesn't leave the library isn't very useful, especially if it requires a television or computer to use. Can you imagine having to go to the library just to watch a movie?

      --
      If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
    6. Re:Good points by KarmaMB84 · · Score: 1

      You lose (erase) the key when it goes public domain and create a slightly modified derivative work covered by copyright with a new key and sell that instead.

    7. Re:Good points by Sarisar · · Score: 1

      - Your Honour, I'm afraid we lost the key
      - How are you making more copies?
      - Well we are using the master CD to make duplicates, but we can't find the original key we had.
      - Well why not just use that master CD to find it?
      - Well, your Honour, that would be a breach of the DMCA.

      OK I'm probably missing something here, but I'm sure there is SOME way around it - companies would be willing to get their lawyers to find some loophole here surely, or bribe a congressman to get one into law. And if the master CD hold the key too easily wouldn't everyone have it if it wasn't encrypted?

    8. Re:Good points by m50d · · Score: 1
      And if the master CD hold the key too easily wouldn't everyone have it if it wasn't encrypted?

      Yes, for effective DRM you need an unencrypted original and then you generate keys tied to specific hardware whenever you sell copies.

      --
      I am trolling
    9. Re:Good points by m50d · · Score: 1

      The original can be retrieved relatively easy from said modified version, and then distributed freely.

      --
      I am trolling
    10. Re:Good points by Sarisar · · Score: 1

      Told you I was probably missing something :)

  4. About the British Library... by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... they're a lot more influential than people realise. They do run their own special forces unit, which for no adequately explored reason conducts all its business in Japanese...

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    1. Re:About the British Library... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for that link. I think I will have a new sig file:
      "Peace to the books of the world; an iron hammer to those who would abuse them;and glory and wisdom to the British Empire!"

  5. RMS by 101percent · · Score: 0

    In the words of RMS, "DRM is theft!"

    1. Re:RMS by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      Yes, because RMS believes that failure to share, in the case where the thing being shared is not diminished by the act of sharing, is a form of deliberately depriving someone of something that should be theirs.

      Rather than embrace the Age of Plenty which was ushered in by the first Industrial Revolution, it seems that some would create their own artificial scarcity in order to prolong the Age of Scarcity.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    2. Re:RMS by ralph1 · · Score: 0

      The reason is the the world needs a new world law So as to make it unlawfull to have children and be a moron things like low iq or low social status etc.

  6. And the hackers save us? by faloi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Worse yet, if the software no longer exists to unlock a DRM-protected file, its contents may be lost forever -- exactly the thing libraries are intended to prevent.

    I would think that's where the people that enjoy breaking DRM protection comes into play. It would be nice to get a government sanction to break into content for the fun of it. Or at least I'm assuming it'd be nice for people that can actually do it :)

    --
    "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
    1. Re:And the hackers save us? by howlatthemoon · · Score: 1

      What should be done is that it is illegal, as theft from the public, to produce a DRM system that does not timeout. And, I am sure congress (MPAA/RIAA/Publishing lobby teat-suckers that they are) will get right on that.

  7. Of course... by jawtheshark · · Score: 4, Insightful
    They are right, but nowhere copyright says that using the material under "Fair use" should be easy. I dislike DRM as the next slashdotter, but the only way not to support DRM is to vote with your money: don't buy the stuff. Of course that is going to be hard, after all we all love our Playstation games, our LoTR DVD's and our (now always crippled) music CDs. Not to mention we all love iTunes because of the convenience.

    On top of that, non-slashdotters don't know and even care less than we.

    Finally: even if everybody would boycott DRM enabled media, the distributors will blame piracy. It's a lose-lose situation in all cases.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    1. Re:Of course... by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Insightful
      They are right, but nowhere copyright says that using the material under "Fair use" should be easy.

      As a defence of DRM, that would be fine... if the content cartels hadn't managed to get a law passed that makes the exercise of fair use not only difficult, but illegal.

      If the content providers want to wrap their products in DRM, that's their own business. But if they do, then the law should side with the citizens exercising their fair use rights: such things as modchips, libdvdcss, or hacked ebook readers should be explicitly protected by law, rather than being banned as they are at present.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    2. Re:Of course... by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are right, but nowhere copyright says that using the material under "Fair use" should be easy

      What?

      It's a right, specified in law. There aren't "levels" here, it's either a true or false value.

      So, it's okay if Free Speech isn't easy, right?

    3. Re:Of course... by yar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sadly, it's not a right. The law only says that fair use is not an infringement of copyright. If it was a right, then the anti-circumvention measures in the DMCA would have been much harder to pass. If a librarian circumvents DRM, even for a use that is determined fair, they are very likely liable for the act.
      (Not a librarian, but have an MLIS and have been advised by legal counsel.)

    4. Re:Of course... by bcattwoo · · Score: 1
      Finally: even if everybody would boycott DRM enabled media, the distributors will blame piracy. It's a lose-lose situation in all cases.

      If everybody would boycott DRM enabled media and stop pirating it, the distributors would no longer have anyone to blame but themselves.

    5. Re:Of course... by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      Ooh, Wikipedia says you're right. (and it does make sense) Dang :)

    6. Re:Of course... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      Not really. Piracy is based on estimates of "lost sales". For example, now they estimate that Pop-Star-Du-Jour would sell 1M albums and only 500K albums are sold. For them this means that 500K songs have been pirated. How many times it has been really pirated is impossible to say. It might be 2M times or even 0 times.

      Now in the Utopian World you describe, the Pop-Star-Du-Jour would sell 0 albums. Nobody would pirate and hence the real piracy rate is 0. However their estimate of pirated albums will still be $ESTIMATED_SALES - $SOLD_ALBUMS, and in my example that would be 1M pirated albums. In their vision, piracy has raised 100%! Regardless of the fact that nobody really pirated anything.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    7. Re:Of course... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Quite a bummer with your nickname, eh? ;-)

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    8. Re:Of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ... the only way not to support DRM is to vote with your money: don't buy the stuff.

      Those "votes" are filed under "piracy" (lost business = piracy - you know the drill). If you don't get assertive politically, game over.

    9. Re:Of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ammendment IX (9) to the Constitution of the United States of America says that it is a right.

    10. Re:Of course... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      As if I didn't know: see my own comment that I made about 3 hours before you. See that "lose-lose" part? It summarizes it...

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  8. Libraries and Librarians by Raleel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    See, here's where we, the nerds and IT folk, need to work with the librarians and support them.

    I had the priveledge of speaking with a librarian on a plane ride one time. While not particularly tech saavy, she was quite passionate about information freedom and privacy. It hadn't even occurred to me until that point that the librarians had been working for what so many of us had believed in for a long time. They were the Googles before we had Google.

    --
    -- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
    1. Re:Libraries and Librarians by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 1

      she was quite passionate about information freedom

      Was she equally passionate about Entertainment Freedom? I'm sure she didn't confuse the two... did she?

      Did you?

    2. Re:Libraries and Librarians by koweja · · Score: 1

      When it comes to protecting the availability of information most librarians don't give a damn about whether the information is for entertainment or education/research.

    3. Re:Libraries and Librarians by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 0

      When it comes to protecting the availability of information most librarians don't give a damn about whether the information is for entertainment or education/research.

      Uhhhhhh, do they give a damn whether it's an entry in an encyclopedia or Tom Clancy's latest book? The Clancy book is not "Information Wanting to Be Free," it's a friggin' novel, and it "wants" to be whatever its creator needs it to be. If the librarians don't distinguish between the two, then they're misguided, and they should consider trading in some of that "passion" for a clue.

    4. Re:Libraries and Librarians by SchrodingersRoot · · Score: 1

      I've known a couple of librarians in my day. Heck, I was even a volunteer librarian for a year, back in the day, at my little local library. And you're right, I've noticed that most of them tend to give a big damn about many of the things that we here at /., and other geeks around the world hold dear. It may sound a bit silly, but most of the ones I've known really do care about preserving things for the future generations in a very Seldonic way. It's kinda neat, really.

      Plus, librarianism is hot.

      Oh, and what's with librarians in the news? I mean, just yesterday, we have a librarian put the FBI in a chokehold and flick its nose until it said 'uncle'.

    5. Re:Libraries and Librarians by yar · · Score: 4, Informative

      A clue?

      I'm not a librarian, but my mother was, and I have an MLIS myself. The average librarian has likely thought more about information than most people have, and in a more formalized manner. Librarians are concerned with information as a disclipline in and of itself in ways that no other profession is, and longer than any other profession. Most librarians have a Masters degree in which they learn about information- how people use and access information, how information can be organized, presented, and so on. So they certainly know how to evaluate resources and can tell the difference between a Tom Clancy novel and an encyclopedia entry. They're also concerned with issues involving authority, authenticity, integrity, and other information-related problems. Public librarianship, in particular (note that not all librarians are public or academic librarians) have a strong history of protecting intellectual freedom. Don't assume that just because something is entertainment that there are no intellectual freedom issues. If someone is denying access to information, you need to look at why first.

    6. Re:Libraries and Librarians by d-e-w · · Score: 1

      When it comes to the article in the encyclopedia or the Tom Clancy novel, COPYRIGHT and FAIR USE don't distinguish. They're both written sources of information. One is entertainment information and one is education information--but they're both written.

      And one day, both the Tom Clancy novel and the article in the encyclopedia will enter into the public domain, should the public domain still exist at that point. And then, information DOES want to be free--that's the PURPOSE of the public domain.

    7. Re:Libraries and Librarians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      No. The creator of a book has absolutely no intrinsic right to control who gets to read, copy it, or distribute it. In order to help them out, governments decided to give them a monopoly for *limited* times on their work, at the end of which it goes back to public domain where it would have been in the first place if we weren't helping them out in order to encourage more creation of such works.

      Stuff that you think up is your property right up until the point where it's no longer in your head and you tell other people. Then it's no longer your property, it's public. A book you write may be your property and I can't steal it from you, but the words in it are not. A painting is your property, but if someone else copies it, that's not stealing the painting from you.

      The whole concept of copyright and patents for any time at all was very controversial back in the day. It's only relatively recently that people have developed the fucked up view you hold.

    8. Re:Libraries and Librarians by d-e-w · · Score: 1

      And many MLS programs (Masters of Library Systems) are becoming increasing technical. Most MLS grads now graduate with basic computer science, basic relational database, and basic XML knowledge under their belt. There are also LIS (Library Information Systems) programs that cross over with computer science programs, specifically database systems, to the point of sharing classes with the CS people.

    9. Re:Libraries and Librarians by koweja · · Score: 1

      Thank you. I couldn't have said it any better myself.

      Out of curiosity, where did you get your MLIS?

    10. Re:Libraries and Librarians by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I'm saying there has been a ridiculous and often deliberate blurring of the distinction between that "freedom-wanting" information and "payment-wanting" entertainment ever since someone learned they could rip a CD to file and share it with 10,000 of their closest friends. You've asked me not to assume that just because something is entertainment that there is not intellectual freedom issue associated with it, and I say that's fair. But the state of things, in libraries and elsewhere, will be a lot better when people likewise understand that just because something can be digitized and easily disseminated does not makeit magically become "information" with a price tag of $0.

    11. Re:Libraries and Librarians by yar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I got my degree at the University of Texas at Austin. At the time, I received an MLIS from the Graduate School of Library and Information Science. Since then, the name of the degree has changed (Master of Science in Information Studies) and the name of the school has changed (School of Information). The change wasn't intended to be a slight on libraries, but an acknowledgement that graduates of the school were doing many varied things- libraries, archives, conservation, preservation, information architecture, usability, records management, databases, programming, knowledge management, video editing, etc.

    12. Re:Libraries and Librarians by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      If someone is denying access to information, you need to look at why first.

      From the Holy Book (OK, the Holy CD-ROM) of Slashdot Philosophy:

      It's because in their heart, they imagine themselves your master.

      A quotation I always nod wisely along with, agreeing wholeheartedly, while making damn sure to deny all the other factions the information about How To Build Missile Needlejets With Nerve Gas, and plotting to become their master :)

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    13. Re:Libraries and Librarians by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 1

      You're naive. Which is fine, if you weren't also so arrogant: THAT's an unfortunate combination.

      The genesis of copyright law did not anticipate scanners, digitization, magnetic storage, the Internet, or any of that good stuff. It was, however, derived from and beholden to a centuries-old tradition of royal and governmental patronage of the arts. Kings paid poets with the money they skimmed from their people. Made sense that the ownership of the work "revert back" to the public eventually.

      There is no substantive government subsidy for the arts (relative to those "days gone by" that you like to cite). Just about everyone does have a printing press, however. There's also about a half-dozen other real, meaningful technological and economic differences coloring copyright issues "then and now;" let's see if you can figure them out. The times could not be more different. Consequently, the way society views copyright, and its attendant laws, is changing as well. Legislators are starting to wonder why, in an era where no king or government uses public money to subsidize art, the public has some eventual claim to that art.

    14. Re:Libraries and Librarians by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with that, of course, is that something that can be "digitized and easily disseminated" is effectively free to distribute -- once it exists. For a long time, distribution was hard, and only a select group was willing to put the effort into doing it. Over an extended period of time, that particular method of distribution became the only way of doing business, and authors/artists/inventors got into some really bad habits in regards to their business methods. In particular, they started to assume that they could control the price of the end product (a physical copy of a book, for example) to make up for the work that they were effectively doing at a loss (actually writing the book). That worked (for the most part) as long as publication was limited to "insiders" who stood to benefit from the system, but now that anyone can be a distributor that system is breaking down.

      Those who possess the ability to create valuable "content" have nothing to worry about, really. After all, they're not the ones facing this new competition; we have yet to learn how to create unique content without them. As long as that remains true, authors, artists, and inventors will continue to profit from their work. The methods by which they are paid will certainly change, but only the distributors are facing extinction.

      As for the methods themselves, there are numerous workable proposals. My personal favorite is the collective-patronage system, which differs from traditional patronage only in that an organization or group replaces the individual patron. The organization would probably set the scope of the content -- the general topic, audience, medium, etc. -- and then hire promising authors, artists, and/or inventors willing to work within those limits. Some groups would, of course, be more free-form than others, but ultimately the parameters of the group would be dictated by its paying members. Members would have numerous advantages over non-members, including contact with the patronees, first-run editions of the resulting works, shareholder rights in the group's decisions, discounted merchandise, etc. The membership fees would fund the production of new stories, movies, and/or inventions. Nearly all of the income would go directly to the artists, and the system would be self-sustaining without relying on copyrights or patents at all.

      Ultimately, I think that the content creators would be much better off under this system than the current one, since overall consumer spending on creative media is not likely to decrease much, while a much larger percentage goes directly to the creators rather than the distributors.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    15. Re:Libraries and Librarians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      while making damn sure to deny all the other factions the information about How To Build Missile Needlejets With Nerve Gas, and plotting to become their master :)

      While an appealing ground for censorship, in the end, even this may not be wise. Imagine if you ban people from learning about bombs. This sounds good, right? Yet somewhere, either someone who cares not for your ban will learn how to make one, or the bomb will be reinvented. Now, the LCD is counting down from 5 minutes, can you reinvent the knowledge yourself that will disarm the bomb in time? Without knowledge of nerve gas, can you synthesize the antidote? The list goes on and on.

    16. Re:Libraries and Librarians by Knetzar · · Score: 1

      Why not get a group of people and attempt this system with one of your favorite authors? See if it works.

  9. DRM needs to check-out by digitaldc · · Score: 1

    Libraries have a legal right to distribute materials under the Fair Use provisions of the copyright law, but DRM systems may block this. Furthermore, they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright. DRM systems may allow copyright holders to retain control over their material longer than they are legally entitled to.

    What does DRM stand for again?

    Data-Retaining Miser? Data-Retention Misery? Data-Restraining Misanthrope?

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:DRM needs to check-out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Digital Rights Management?

    2. Re:DRM needs to check-out by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What does DRM stand for again?

      Do your bit for information freedom.

      DRM stands for Digital Restrictions Management.

      What, you heard it was Digital Rights Management? No, no, no. The purpose of the technology is to take away rights, like the fair use right to copy to an ipod or a mix tape, and to impose restrictions, like how if your subscription to Napster lapses then all your music stops working. It's Digital Restrictions Management.

      Use the phrase in your posts, in conversation with non-techies, on IRC. Whenever the subject arises. Spread the meme. Subvert the language. It's Digital Restrictions Management, because they want to Restrict you. They care nothing for your rights.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    3. Re:DRM needs to check-out by anothy · · Score: 1

      DRM: Doesn't Really Matter.

      (as in, generally easy to get around. certainly the larger effects on society, culture, and technology matter a great deal.)

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
    4. Re:DRM needs to check-out by Illserve · · Score: 1

      DRM is perfectly named. Your confusions stems from your assumption that the Rights are *yours*.

      DRM refers to the rights of the digital data, to not be copied, or otherwise abused at the hands of filthy pirates.

      Please won't somebody think of the bits?

    5. Re:DRM needs to check-out by duerra · · Score: 2

      I always thought that DRM was appropriately named, it just depends on the frame of mind that you are coming from.

      DRM - Digital Rights Management. The system is managing your rights... by taking them away, instead of you managing your rights.

    6. Re:DRM needs to check-out by CelticWhisper · · Score: 1

      I always argued for "Defective Restricted Media" myself. Gets the point across loud and clear.

      --
      Help protect civil rights from abuse by the TSA - visit TSA News Blog.
      http://www.tsanewsblog.com
  10. Unfortunately... by racecarj · · Score: 1

    "Furthermore, they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright." Unfortunately, with today's draconian copyright laws, works NEVER will go out of copyright.

    1. Re:Unfortunately... by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse NEVER, with "it takes a long long time".

      Practically, you are right on a per person basis, that you will probably never get to see music produced today in the public domain in your lifetime, but the copyright law stands on the premise that eventually things will get back to the public where it rightfully belongs.

      Of course media moguls had been lobbying for the extension for that "long long time" into "longer and longer time" over the course of the last century and they managed to bastardize the law using this loophole.

      What libraries are talking about now is NEVER, not "long long time". As in, really, never. That is against the core fundation of the whole system of copyright. Why should the law grant priviledges to the authors if they will never contribute back to society?

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    2. Re:Unfortunately... by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      but the copyright law stands on the premise that eventually things will get back to the public where it rightfully belongs.

      Since the law allows copyrights to be extended indefinitely (see: Mickey Mouse), it is entirely possible that copyrights can last forever. Or at least until the universe asplodes.

    3. Re:Unfortunately... by Dunarie · · Score: 1

      Oh yes works WILL go out of copyright, but only works done my small buisnesses and by individuals. Then the works will be re-writen by companies like Disney, who will copyright their version, and then trademark the title, and all the main character's names.

  11. Sony Rootkits in Libraries by Rick+Sands · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if any of the sony rootkits have made it into the music collections of libraries? Would the librarians even know to not stock those titles?

    1. Re:Sony Rootkits in Libraries by yar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, Sony Rootkits did make it into libraries. Yes, most librarians know not to stock such titles. Many are quite technologically proficient and follow sites like Slashdot. :P

  12. It's all about the POV of "rights" by PornMaster · · Score: 1

    DRM asserts the rights of the content creator. Legislators need to spend a bit of time concerning themselves with the rights of the consumer who has licensed/bought the materials.

    1. Re:It's all about the POV of "rights" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Legislators need to spend a bit of time concerning themselves with the rights of the consumer who has licensed/bought the materials.

      That's not going to change the law on expiry of DRM, though. Nothing that is in copyright today is going to come out of copyright within your lifetime, so why should you care that when it finally does enter the public domain, the DRM will stop your great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren listening to the antique sounds of the ancient 21st century?

  13. MPAA laughs at Copyright end-dates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was involved in some video Copy Protection Technology standardisation efforts in Europe and had to sit round the table with the MPAA. ANY attempt to bring an argument along the lines of "how do we put the copyright expiration date into the DRM metadata" was laughed at. None of the technology companies were interested in running with the idea either - the consumers rights could just go hang.

    All part of life in the behind-the-scenes world of technology standardisation.

    1. Re:MPAA laughs at Copyright end-dates by makomk · · Score: 1

      It could be worse - they could be designing the copy protection so that all public copies erase themselves (or render themselves unplayable) a few months before their copyright is due to end. Then they could release new versions with a new, updated copyright date.

    2. Re:MPAA laughs at Copyright end-dates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ANY attempt to bring an argument along the lines of "how do we put the copyright expiration date into the DRM metadata" was laughed at

      Can you please record such attempts + responses, and then release them into the public domain as non-DRMed files? That way when we can't play such DRMed files, at least we'll have an explanation playable by anyone as to why things are this way.

  14. Not an issue by VisceralLogic · · Score: 4, Funny

    they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright. Fortunately for us here in the US, works going out of copyright isn't an issue.

    --
    Stop! Dremel time!
    1. Re:Not an issue by anothy · · Score: 1

      where's my -1 Tragic mod?

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
  15. The right to control material by NiteShaed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "DRM systems may allow copyright holders to retain control over their material longer than they are legally entitled to."

    I'm not sure I agree with this point of view. It seems to me that it's not a right to control material and copyright confers, but the right to legal protection from infringement on that material. If I decide I want to go a step further with something I produce, and lock it up in a way that will keep people from doing what they want with it after I can no longer count on legal protection, then isn't that my prerogative?

    That said, I don't really agree with that approach, I'm just not a fan of telling a creator what they can do with their creation.

    --
    Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
    1. Re:The right to control material by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1
      If I decide I want to go a step further with something I produce, and lock it up in a way that will keep people from doing what they want with it after I can no longer count on legal protection, then isn't that my prerogative?

      Normally, yes, I'd agree with you. If the market doesn't like it, it doesn't have to buy/license your product, and if they choose to accept your terms, that's fair enough.

      However, as I noted in my earlier post, the national reference libraries have certain legal privileges here that don't apply to anyone else. Normally, you may not publish a book in the UK and then refuse to give them a copy if they ask for one, for example.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    2. Re:The right to control material by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The only problem with this approach is that copyright is not a god-given right, but a 18th century founded trade agreement.

      The society, with the help of the executive arm - the "Government" - grants temporary rights to help innovation so thus society in general.

      That was the theory in the 18th century and it worked sort-of, but in today's world that theory breaks down because of new technologies and that because the content creators don't keep their end of the bargain. They don't contribute back to society as they should.

      You can't have your cake and eat it too, its a simple choice:

      You either adhere to the _spirit_ of the copyright and use the temporary timeframe given to you while you have "copyright" over something which after the required amount of time becomes public domain OR you are outside the scope of copyright and you receive NO LEGAL PROTECTION if someone else wants to do whatever he wants with the thing you "created".

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    3. Re:The right to control material by m50d · · Score: 1
      If I decide I want to go a step further with something I produce, and lock it up in a way that will keep people from doing what they want with it after I can no longer count on legal protection, then isn't that my prerogative?

      Once you've sold someone the copy, it's on the whole none of your business what they do with it - it's theirs to do with as they like. Your rights under copyright are special exceptions, not the norm.

      --
      I am trolling
    4. Re:The right to control material by wilkens · · Score: 1
      You either adhere to the _spirit_ of the copyright and use the temporary timeframe given to you while you have "copyright" over something which after the required amount of time becomes public domain OR you are outside the scope of copyright and you receive NO LEGAL PROTECTION if someone else wants to do whatever he wants with the thing you "created".

      This is a good point, to which we might add/clarify that copyright works on the basis of an artificial scarcity created and enforced by government power. This isn't a bad thing, at least in principle, but it's important to keep in mind that intellectual property, unlike physical property, isn't naturally scarce--you can replicate it ad infinitum at essentially no cost. We collectively agree to create scarcity (thereby maintaining artificially high prices) in order to provide an (additional) incentive for artists/writers/inventors to do what they do, so that we can all benefit from it. But it's a bargain, not an inherent right, and the balance between incentive and return needs to be reviewed and debated both more vigorously and more frequently than it is now.

    5. Re:The right to control material by yar · · Score: 1

      Well, no- it isn't.
      Copyright is a limited, government created right, created to give the author a financial incentive to continue creating so that ultimately the public can benefit from those creations. The US, in particular, has a strong utilitarian tradition, reflected in its laws. The public has an interest in a creator's work, and has given the creator protection for the eventual good of the public. You're arguing from a strong moral rights stance. Different countries implement moral rights in different ways, but most recognize that moral rights don't last forever.

    6. Re:The right to control material by wannabgeek · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I'm not sure I agree with this point of view. It seems to me that it's not a right to control material and copyright confers, but the right to legal protection from infringement on that material. If I decide I want to go a step further with something I produce, and lock it up in a way that will keep people from doing what they want with it after I can no longer count on legal protection, then isn't that my prerogative?

      That said, I don't really agree with that approach, I'm just not a fan of telling a creator what they can do with their creation.


      It is your prerogative as long as you do not sell any rights to anyone. If you have sold copies of yours then you're willing to forgo some of your rights for money, and you have to accept the limits. What people are objecting to, is use of DRM when you sell copies of your creation - and wanting to perpetuate your rights.

      --
      I'm much more funny, interesting and insightful than the moderators think
    7. Re:The right to control material by MajinBlayze · · Score: 1

      That's the point; The record companies don't want to sell you a copy. More and more, they want to RENT you a LICENSE, where you can use it so long as you follow their terms. They want to go along with the softwareindustry, a la Microsoft, potentially even getting per-listen/view fees for "their" works.

      IMHO, as long as the large media conglomerates continue to survive, this isn't going to just go away.
      This attitude is exactly why I switched from Proprietary software to open source, and it's exactly why I will not pay for anything from the RIAA, Sony, et. al.

      --
      "Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all the time." Danny Vinyard -American History X
    8. Re:The right to control material by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you create something and don't want anyone to copy it - lock it in a safe somewhere. If you want society to grant you a period of time that you, and you alone, can sell it to make your living, then you need to give society a reason to do so. That reason is that your work will contribute to society - i.e. the public domain - after you have gotten the first bits of money from it. But creating something should not give you and your desecendants a right to leech off of society forever.

    9. Re:The right to control material by Americano · · Score: 1

      I still can't decide where I stand on this issue, to be honest...

      Take the case of music -- I can see the argument from both sides, and I guess I just haven't seen enough data one way or another to indicate that one way is "bad" and the other is "good", because I think there does need to be some sort of balance made between the rights of the content creator, and the rights of the content "consumer". Take music for example:

      If some singer writes an amazing song that everybody should share, where's the incentive for them to record & release that song for sale, if they sell 3 copies at $0.99 apiece, and then everybody else on the planet rips off the song? (Yes, that's an exaggeration, I'm aware that piracy probably isn't that rampant.) Doesn't the content creator have some right to profit from their hard work, and to "own" their song in such a way that they don't have to spend the next 30 years in court, spending any money they make trying to stop people from pirating their work? In the past (i.e., pre-digital-music), it was harder to pirate on a massive scale... but now when the cost of stealing a song is a few cents worth of bandwidth and a 20 second download? Easy to do, and cheap...

      And then on the other hand, as a consumer, shouldn't I be allowed to do "whatever I want within reason" with the media & content that I've paid for (burn a CD for my car, put it on my iPod, copy it to my work computer, etc.)? I mean, so long as I'm not sharing the file all over to anybody who wants it, and I'm keeping it for my own "private use", then I think a DRM scheme is more a kill-joy for me than anything else.

      I can see both sides of the argument, as someone who purchases a lot of music, and as someone who plays a little music (strictly amateur, but I know how much work & practice it takes to *play* someone else's material... the effort & thought that go into creating a good song is, I'm sure, orders of magnitude greater), I can see the argument both ways, and I'm really not sure which side I come down on.

      I guess to me, it's not a question of "DRM: Good or Bad?", it's more a question of "DRM: How do you protect the rights of the content creator while still allowing the consumers to make fair & reasonable use of the content they've purchased?" Is ANYBODY answering this question these days? I know the RIAA is just sueing the shit out of everybody, and I hear lots of griping about DRM here on Slashdot, but I don't hear much about any "middle paths" being broken open...

    10. Re:The right to control material by StopSayingYouSir · · Score: 1
      it's important to keep in mind that intellectual property, unlike physical property, isn't naturally scarce--you can replicate it ad infinitum at essentially no cost.

      Sure, if you have the tools, which are not costless, and the knowledge of how to use them, which is also not costless. Most people in the world today have neither. Does this mean they are "unnatural?"

      On the contrary, the replication of information is naturally scarce. Throughout human history, replicating information has not been costless. It has been difficult, time-consuming, costly, and imperfect, usually requiring skills and/or tools not available to the average person. How would you rate the "cost" of, say, copying the Bible by hand? Or committing the Iliad to memory?

      It is only with technology that the cost of replicating information drops. This seems to me the very opposite of "natural." Copyright serves the purpose of preserving some level of scarcity in a decidedly unnatural environment.

    11. Re:The right to control material by wilkens · · Score: 1
      On the contrary, the replication of information is naturally scarce. Throughout human history, replicating information has not been costless. It has been difficult, time-consuming, costly, and imperfect, usually requiring skills and/or tools not available to the average person.

      Well, a couple of points here. First, replication has almost always been quick, cheap, and easy compared to composition. This is especially true today, but it's been broadly so at least since the invention of the printing press and was also true, relatively speaking, before that. As much to the point, my claim was specifically about the contemporary situation where the relative resources required are radically dispropotionate.

      It is only with technology that the cost of replicating information drops. This seems to me the very opposite of "natural." Copyright serves the purpose of preserving some level of scarcity in a decidedly unnatural environment.

      I don't really know what you mean by "natural." Sure, the technological situation today is different from what it was a couple of centuries ago and that's one (but only one!) of the reasons why the debate over the appropriate application of copyright law is an interesting one at the moment, but the issues involved--specifically the relative ease of replication--have been with us for a long time. It is, if you like, "naturally" relatively easy to copy words, ideas, etc. This is not a new development.

      It should be clear that nothing in my original post argued aginst copyright restrictions as such. My point is only that such artificial scarcities should be structured so as to provide the maximum possible social benefit in terms of both spurring new works to be created and providing access to those works for further use and development by others. It seems clear that the present set of copyright laws in the US doesn't do a very good job of achieving this balance, but that doesn't mean--as your post seems to imply--that the only alternative would be to abolish all restrictions on copying.

  16. Copyright expires? by chrae · · Score: 0

    Furthermore, they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright.

    It's a mute point, copyright will never expire anyway.
    1. Re:Copyright expires? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A moot point, not a mute point.

    2. Re:Copyright expires? by WindBourne · · Score: 1
      A moot point, not a mute point.

      Considering that so many politicians are keeping quiet on this, I think that mute is also appropriate.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  17. DMCA by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
    As a defence of DRM, that would be fine... if the content cartels hadn't managed to get a law passed that makes the exercise of fair use not only difficult, but illegal.

    I'm aware of that, but that's a US problem for now. The UK and the rest of the EU doesn't have this problem yet. (Wait till the EUCD comes out *sigh*) The situtation for Audio CD's is especially bad: I haven't seen red-book Audio CD's for ages at this side of the big pond.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  18. Go out of copyright? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright

    ROFLMAO!!!!! a work go out of copyright? In this age? That will never happen again. Disney will see to it.

  19. Copyright Libraries by lisaparratt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Surely the best solution here is a modification to the law such that any protected digital work must have an unencumbered version of the data lodged with the copyright libraries? This copy is for archive use only until the work falls into the public domain, at which point it is made freely available.

    Artists are protected, execs still get the most important part of their wet dream, and most importantly, the public gets it's dues.

    1. Re:Copyright Libraries by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 1

      So if I write a novel, distribute it via DRM'd e-book, I'm supposed to make a plain-text copy available to every library that wants it? I'm already trusting the "fans" not to crack the DRM and put the book's contents up on their blogs, now I'm going to trust total strangers (with that WTF-bizarro "Entertainment is Information and Information Cries Out To Be Free" chip on their shoulders) with an un-encrypted copy?

      Sh'yeah. OK. That'll happen. I'll get right on it...

    2. Re:Copyright Libraries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      That's why the OP specified that the unencumbered version be supplied to the "copryight library" and not every library purchasing a DRM'd copy as you interpreted it.

    3. Re:Copyright Libraries by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      YES! I agree 100%. I'd go further: if you don't make an unencumbered copy available to the Appointed Guardians of the Public Domain within a reasonable timeframe, then you forfeit copyright protection and the work passes into the public domain right there and then.

      Or at least, as soon as it gets hacked :)

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    4. Re:Copyright Libraries by Ahnteis · · Score: 1

      If you were trusting the fans, you wouldn't be putting the DRM on the "book".

  20. This may be intentional by jc42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In recent years, I've read a number of comments from people in the publishing industry that mention a statistic: The average published book is read by four people. The contexts of the quote is usually that this is considered a problem, and Something Should Be Done About It.

    One way to understand this is to think of the books that you own. How many of your books have been read by three or more other people? Probably none, right? So where does this supposed average of four come from? Right again - libraries. The publishing industry generally considers libraries to be a serious problem. Libraries pay for a book only once, and then they let anyone read the book. All those readers should have bought their own copy. If publishers can make this happen, they think it will quadruple their income.

    One of the things going on with DRM is that publishers see a solution to their problem, in the form of software that will prevent anyone other than the purchaser from reading a book. The intent is to prevent public libraries from doing what they're doing. They're also looking at the possibility of making you pay a second time if you want to reread a book.

    Most publishers aren't in business to educate their readers or to contribute to our culture. They are in business to make money. If they can't make money from a book, they have no reason to let you read it. They certainly don't want you to read a book for free.

    So if you think libraries are an important part of our culture, you should also be thinking about ways to preserve public access to their content. Publishers think they will soon be able to end such public access. They'll probably succeed, unless steps are taken to preserve access.

    (Of course, here in the US, most of the population hasn't been inside a library in years. ;-)

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    1. Re:This may be intentional by Epeeist · · Score: 1

      In the UK the libraries pay a fee to the publishers each time a book is borrowed.

    2. Re:This may be intentional by anothy · · Score: 1
      So if you think libraries are an important part of our culture, you should also be thinking about ways to preserve public access to their content.

      ...

      (Of course, here in the US, most of the population hasn't been inside a library in years. ;-)
      If you think libraries are an important part of our culture go use them! stories like this - and the British Library generally - make me wish i still lived in London so i could go support them. i now live just outside DC and while the Library of Congress doesn't emphasize its "public service" role as much as it's British counterpart, it's still an astoundingly important cultural resource; not just for Americans (or Brits, in the case of the British Library), but for the entire world. these institutions are the modern Libraries of Alexandria. many large Universities also support damn impressive libraries.

      i actually decided earlier this week to go get a LoC Reader Card. if you've got one of these high-profile libraries locally, go sign up; if not, go use your local public library. you'll be doing the world a favor.
      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
    3. Re:This may be intentional by assassinator42 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm cheap, so I don't buy books I don't need to. I just borrow books I want to read from the library. I know in the libraries around here, it's very easy to a book from another library. Just look up the book you want in the catalogue and place a hold. How is it in other places? They are lacking when it comes to the software selection though.

    4. Re:This may be intentional by adamanthaea · · Score: 1

      Most of the books I own are used, so there have been at least two readers. So the stores I bought them from get paid, but not the publisher. Libraries, while great resources, don't always have what I want to read available and for fiction I don't like to submit an ILL request (unlike journal articles, dissertations, reviews, and other technical writing) because if it's a 30 year OOP novel that I'm looking for, it's easier to find it somewhere either online or in used book stores. Yes, of course the library could finally find it, but personally I don't like using ILL for personal pleasure.

    5. Re:This may be intentional by Buck2 · · Score: 1

      Where I live you can place a hold on a book online, they'll ship it to your local library, and then send you an email saying it's in.

      You really can't get much more convenient than that.

      --

      As my father lik@(munch munch)... ....
  21. RMS is an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RMS, as happens way to often, here has no idea what he is talking about. The word "theft" means something, and matters involving theft really never intersect the DRM discussion.

    DRM isn't theft (RMS is wrong).

    DRM does not prevent theft (the industry is wrong: copyright infringment has nothing to do with theft).

    The sooner we get the word "theft" out of BOTH sides of the DRM argument, the better. This word needs to stand up against the wall along with rape, arson, murder, and forgery as having nothing to do with DRM matters.

  22. Public Domain? by Syberghost · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't see any compelling reason to believe that any work created since the term "DRM" was invented will ever go out of copyright.

    1. Re:Public Domain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DRM can be applied to works created a long time ago. If publishers refuse to release back-content in unencumbered formats, then even something that is *supposed* to become public domain tomorrow could be protected forever (via DMCA, etc.).

      (yes, someone might have an old paper copy of said work lying around... or they might not)

    2. Re:Public Domain? by yorkpaddy · · Score: 1

      I was going to say it myself, but you beat me to it.

      --
      "brxref .k.p ,.by xprt. gbe.p.oycmaycbi yd. cby.nci.bj. ru yd. am.pcjab lgxlcj" don'
    3. Re:Public Domain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? If you published a book today, it would go out of copyright 70 years after you die. It's very clear. It's a limited term, not perpetual. What's the problem?

    4. Re:Public Domain? by Ahnteis · · Score: 1

      What if your work is a contracted product whose copyright is owned by a large corporation -- a corporation that may continue on long after you die.

      Oh wait, we already see that situation is LOTS of media.

    5. Re:Public Domain? by John+Newman · · Score: 1
      What? If you published a book today, it would go out of copyright 70 years after you die. It's very clear. It's a limited term, not perpetual. What's the problem?
      Constiutionally, it must be a "limited" term. But in the past few decades Congress has repeatedly and retroactively extended the term, such that the practical effect has been to make copyright perpetual for any works published since the incorporation of Disney:

      1790: The original copyright act called for a 14 year term, renewable once if the author was still alive.
      1909: Term doubled to 28 years; can be renewed once if author still alive.
      1976: Term extended to the life of the author plus 50 years; 75 years for anonymous/corporate works.
      1998: Term extended to the life of the author plus 70 years; 95 years for anonymous/corporate works.

      Note that Disney was founded in 1923. Under orignal law, 1923 + 56 = 1979. Under the 1976 law, 1923 + 75 = 1998. Under the 1998 law, 1923 + 95 = 2018. Think it's a coincidence? The extensions are retroactive, but explictly apply only to works created in 1923 or later. Yes, 1923 is the actual cut-off in US law. I think you can put the debate over a new term extension bill on your 2018 calendar.

      [aside]Even as it stands now, seventy years after I die? How can anyone consider that a reasonable term? My kids, grandkids, and maybe even their kids will all be dead seventy years after I'm gone. Why should my great-great-grandkids get to leech off of my copyrighted works? How is this providing any incentive to me beyond the orignal, 1790-mandated 28-years-so-long-as-I'm-alive?[/aside]
  23. Harm? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    It may do more then harm them, in time it may elminate them totally.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  24. Mod Parent Up.. by debest · · Score: 2, Interesting
    They are right, but nowhere copyright says that using the material under "Fair use" should be easy.

    As a defence of DRM, that would be fine... if the content cartels hadn't managed to get a law passed that makes the exercise of fair use not only difficult, but illegal.

    Absolutely. The evil thing about the WIPO treaties' laws (DMCA included) is that they play lip-service to respecting fair use, but make it impossible to claim it. In the US, you are technically permitted to break the DRM for your own personal use (this is exempt under the DMCA), but you are forbidden from ever telling anyone how you went about breaking the DRM. This effectively limits legal fair use to advanced electronics and computer engineers who have a lot of time on their hands.

    What I'd love to see (and I know I never will) is for copyright protection to only be granted to works that can be copied. If you publish a work (book, software, music, etc.) on a medium that permits someone to make copies, then you can legally enforce your "copy right" against anyone who infringes that right.

    If, however, you publish something that prevents copies from being made, then you forfeit the legal mechanism that the government has granted you. You are taking the job of preventing infringment of your work out of the government's hand, and taking responsibility for that yourself. After all, why should you be given protection from illicit copying of their work when your work is "uncopyable"?

    I know, it won't happen. It probably tips the copyright balance too far in the other direction. But dare to dream...
    --
    Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
    1. Re:Mod Parent Up.. by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      If, however, you publish something that prevents copies from being made, then you forfeit the legal mechanism that the government has granted you. You are taking the job of preventing infringment of your work out of the government's hand, and taking responsibility for that yourself. After all, why should you be given protection from illicit copying of their work when your work is "uncopyable"?

      This is, after all, exactly what happens when you choose to go after a patent instead of maintaining a trade secret. You either get federal protection (with expiration guarantees), or a theoretically open-ended timespan with no help from the government, but not both.

      I don't see why this wouldn't work. I do see why it wouldn't be voted in, though.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  25. Legislative Proposal by ajs318 · · Score: 1

    All Britain need do is pass a law that obliges DRM peddlers to make provision for the fact that copyright will expire one day {if there isn't such a law already}.

    The fact that the DRM peddlers will ignore such a law is neither here nor there. The difference between "law abiding citizen" and "criminal", in Britain where most things are in fact technically illegal, has nothing to do with whether or not one has actually broken any laws.

    When the copyright expires, if the DRM schemes do not include provision for this, then members of the public will automatically get the right to use reasonable force {like "fair dealing", it is ultimately for the courts to determine what constitutes this} to recover what is theirs by right.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    1. Re:Legislative Proposal by lskovlund · · Score: 1
      All Britain need do is pass a law that obliges DRM peddlers to make provision for the fact that copyright will expire one day {if there isn't such a law already}.
      Unfortunately, this points to a general problem: Lawyers are wary of stating in a law that someone has to obey the law, which is essentially what you're saying. This point is seen as self-evident, and therefore best not expressed in a law. Besides, what would the penalties be for a violation? Withdrawal of the copyright in question?
  26. DRM and the Library of Congress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was recently in a room with a high ranking IT person from the U.S. Library of Congress.

    He essentially said the same thing, but here is where it gets interesting.

    He remarked (from my imperfect memory) "People don't understand the amount of money thrown at senators and congressman from media companies to get some favorable legislation. It's so political now that we've been instructed by the head of the library of congress to not comment on this issue, so you can see where this is all going".

    This is scary. The LOC knows congress is selling us out, but they've been told to keep their big mouths shut.

    1. Re:DRM and the Library of Congress by Bucc5062 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If this was the case why not send his remarks (as you recollect) to a local news media. At the very least you may be doing a good thing by trying to help bring these back door coersions to light. At best it gets picked up by the media (local then national) so even more people then those addicted to /. become aware of how much we/thary are losing by those who are meant to represent them.

      Every now and then I read these types of comments on this site and I wonder why those who are upset by what they hear do not do something with the information. Yes, for the record, I would try to report something like this to some media group (tv/paper/radio) in the hopes the word is spread.

      --
      Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
  27. Problems with Fair Use and libraries by yar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the problems with fair use in the United States is that it's generally not considered a "right" per se. Most choose to look at it as an affirmative defense- that is, something brought up when you're accused of copyright infringement. It's all about the framing used to determine who has the burden of proof. If it's a right, then the people who are trying to affect your rights have the burden of proof. If it's a defense, then you have to prove that you weren't infringing copyright. The law itself mentions neither rights nor defenses- it just says that fair use is not an infringement of copyright.

    Librarians are great allies to intellectual freedom issues, including those involving DRM. Look at the briefs that the American Library Association has filed with the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Many librarians are also quite knowledgable about technology-related issues, as well as fun subjects like copyright.

    Libraries have it rough with the increasing prevalence of electronic journals and DRM technologies. Even with material that is accessed online, there's a good chance that once the library stops paying for access, the patrons lose access to that materials- something that never happened with print journals. DRM and licensing are currently putting libraries between a rock and a hard place.

    1. Re:Problems with Fair Use and libraries by 'nother+poster · · Score: 1

      I believe you meant to say that libraries are being bent over the rock and having hard items placed in a sensitive place. ;)

    2. Re:Problems with Fair Use and libraries by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      Ooh, you're right.

      Dang :)

    3. Re:Problems with Fair Use and libraries by squidfood · · Score: 1
      Even with material that is accessed online, there's a good chance that once the library stops paying for access, the patrons lose access to that materials- something that never happened with print journals.

      When I was in high-school, I could do research, as a member of the public, by walking into the local university library and getting the journals (and photocopying them if I wanted). Now, my daughter can't do that as a "member of the public", she has to log on using my faculty access to get the same material, and someone without those connections just can't. (Not true of all journals, but true of many and constantly more).

    4. Re:Problems with Fair Use and libraries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. And that's because in order to get a license and access to electronic journals, university (and public) libraries have to sign binding agreements to limit who has access to them.

    5. Re:Problems with Fair Use and libraries by BitterOak · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's even worse than that at the University at which I work. Now, you need a userID and password (All students, faculty and staff are issued one) just to access the electronic card catalog! This is really a side effect of a security policy in which all publicly available campus computers can now be accessed only through their university ID. I don't think it was targetted at the library card catalog computers per se, but the result is that members of the public can't look up books in the library. (Although they still can at home, via the web.)

      Another side effect is that you can't look up books anonymously to read in the library without checking out the book. This could have a chilling effect on people's reading habits even if the lookups aren't logged, as people can't be sure of this.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  28. Limit digital copy protection to analog by olddotter · · Score: 1

    I think it should be illegal to put copy protection on digital works that are more than what could be applied to a video tape or a book (a physical ink on paper book).

  29. A moo point by ultrafunkula · · Score: 1

    Yeah, it's like a cow's opinion. It just doesn't matter. It's moo.

  30. I've got an issue like this by alex_guy_CA · · Score: 1

    The songs I've bought from iTunes tell me that I can transfer them to a total of x number of other computers. (Is it 5? I don't remember. Lets just say it is 5.) Well, if I get a new computer every 2 years, that means in 12 years from buying a song, I can't use it on my new computer any more. That's kind of bullshit. Obviously, their DRM is easy to get around (burn audio CD, rip audio CD) but who wants to hassle? Did anyone say allofmp3.com?

    1. Re:I've got an issue like this by danpsmith · · Score: 1
      Did anyone say allofmp3.com?

      Is allofmp3.com downloading actually legal in the US? It doesn't say on the site, and I know the site only corresponds to Russian law. But if this is legal, this is quite a service.

      --
      Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
    2. Re:I've got an issue like this by malf-uk · · Score: 1

      I could be wrong but afaik in iTunes you can continue to put them on new PCs providing you de-authorise your old PCs either by selecting the option on the machine you want to de-authorise or, if you no longer have it, de-authorise all of your PCs and re-authorise the ones you want to keep it on.

      --
      R Tape loading error, 0:1
    3. Re:I've got an issue like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's correct. you have the ability to have the DRM'd content on up to 5 machines SIMULTANEOUSLY...such as if you have 5 different boxes in your house.... if you upgrade computers every 2 years, you deauthorize the one you're decomissioning, and authorize your new one. and bam, you still have the ability to copy it to 5 machines. so your statemnt is in correct, because you do not understand the process.

    4. Re:I've got an issue like this by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Is allofmp3.com downloading actually legal in the US? It doesn't say on the site, and I know the site only corresponds to Russian law. But if this is legal, this is quite a service.

      Downloading anything in the US is probably legal. As far as I know no one has ever been convicted of downloading copyrighted works. All cases you hear in the news about illegal music downloads say in the actual article that they were using a program that also provides the music for upload. It is possible downloading is illegal, but I've not seen a single court case that has upheld that opinion.

      As for allofmp3.com, they won their court case in the U.S. due to our reciprocal copyright agreement with Russia. The Russian authorities declined to further investigate them in Russia, since the Russian equivalent of the RIAA confirmed they had a license and they saw no indication of any wrongdoing. Thus far they have weathered all legal attacks and I would not hesitate to purchase music from them out of fear of legal repercussions.

      Note, I am not a lawyer. This is just my opinion based upon what I have read.

    5. Re:I've got an issue like this by alex_guy_CA · · Score: 1

      Can you say plausible deniability?

  31. Technology advances by massysett · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is a legitimate concern, though perhaps for the wrong reasons. By the time these copyrights expire, technology will have improved to an extent we can't imagine. If they're dealing with a circa-2005 copy restriction scheme, I'd bet it could easily be brute forced fifty years from now.

    A better question might be, fifty years from now, will anyone have the technology to even access the works? Think how hard it is to play an eight-track, or even an old 45. If it's copy restricted, will anyone remember how it works? I'll bet no one is playing old WMAs in 2050.

    This might be a huge problem if these copy restriction schemes fade into obscurity, people forget about the works and suddenly, decades later, they want to access them again. But then again, by then it might be easy to reverse-engineer these schemes.

    1. Re:Technology advances by MadRocketScientist · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't that violate the DMCA, regardless of whether the content is "free" or not?

    2. Re:Technology advances by ZiakII · · Score: 1

      This is a legitimate concern, though perhaps for the wrong reasons. By the time these copyrights expire, technology will have improved to an extent we can't imagine. If they're dealing with a circa-2005 copy restriction scheme, I'd bet it could easily be brute forced fifty years from now.

      TBH it is already now I wanted to see how easy it would be to beat DRM. I discovered many easy solutions that would work for almost all DRM.
      First for video there is a program out there called FRAPS it is designed to record video games and produce video. Well it also records anything playing in a window, so all it would take is to launch it into Windows Media Player have the correct license acquired and then start recording.
      For music it gets even easier, there is a program out there called tunebite, what it does is open it once again in Windows Media Player have the license acquired then plays the song at 4x speed (for much faster recording) recording it into a .mp3, it then takes the IDV3 tags from the .wma/.mp4 and adds it to the new .mp3. Then there is the easy approach of burning to a CD then ripping it right back to .mp3. To go even better on that method you can burn it to a virtual drive and then rip that virtual drive and not even have to waste a CD-R.

      All this information took me about 2 hours to figure out, from easy google searches. All DRM does is hurt the honest customer.

    3. Re:Technology advances by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Think how hard it is to play an eight-track, or even an old 45.

      Generally, the owners of such works that are still interesting are "remastering" them, and re-releasing them in the modern format. There are more Beatles songs on major CD releases than on major phonograph or tape releases (probably more on the old formats for "minor" releases, but I don't know enough about those for a judgement). Of course, they claim it isn't the 60's release, but that the "remastering" lets them renew the copyright because it is a derivative work, not a copy. Interestingly enough, the same thing with a book only applies to actual derivatives, like translations. When you print a copy of a Public Domain work, like Shakespeare, the copyrights are blasted all over it. But, though some would argue that wholesale photocopying of it would be a violation, no one thinks that a non-mechanical copy of the work would be a violation (writing it out for yourself or typing it into a computer) as the content is clearly Public Domain. With the copies of older songs released on newer formats, it is always claimed that the new release has a new copyright for the content, even though it may be in the Public Domain (or, as it seems, perpetually 5 years away from being in the Public Domain)

      Oh, and even though it may be "hard" to play an 8-track or a 45, it is only because of the ease of accessing equipment. But the equipment is still available, and nothing more need be done than just playing it on equipment of the day. That will be an impossibility with DRM. You'd have to not only get the equipment, but break the protection. Oh, and under current law, breaking the DRM, even on something in the Public Domain is illegal. So it would be at least a little harder than now, but illegal as well.

    4. Re:Technology advances by DarkVader · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The answer to that would seem to be no, as the dmca only applies to copyrighted material. If the copyright is expired/voided, it would not apply.

      This might prove an interesting way to legally crack drm as well...

      1. copyright something, and apply drm.

      2. renounce your copyright - transfer the material to the public domain.

      3. don't remove the drm.

      The drm may now be legally cracked, as there is no copyright on the protected material. The crack could legally be distributed as a way to access that public domain material.

  32. high readership by SchrodingersRoot · · Score: 1

    How many of your books have been read by three or more other people? Probably none, right?

    Well, this isn't the case for me or most of my friends. A LOT of my books--especially the really good ones-- have been passed around my group of friends, until it's been read by most of them. Same with a lot of my friends' books. I mean, I think my copy of Hitchhiker's Guide has had some 2 dozen readers, over the years.

    The caveat to this is that when my friends or I like a book enough, we buy it. That's how this sort of thing works. Hell, it's the premise behind the Baen Free Library. Not all publishers are stupid. One reason that I like Baen right about now.

  33. Easy solution... by tomcres · · Score: 1

    Take business out of the equation. Hand over all publishing to the people. Set up a national publishing board that is elected by the public to oversee all publishing in the United States. The public would have a say in not only prices of published works but what kind of rights a purchaser is entitled to wrt to the published work.

    The current system of industry cartels and collusion cannot be allowed to continue. We need to stand up for our rights as citizens and consumers and demand not only a free and competitive market for these works, but public oversight and control of the means of production and distribution and the rights of the consumers who purchase these goods.

    1. Re:Easy solution... by sgtrock · · Score: 1
      We need to stand up for our rights as citizens and consumers and demand not only a free and competitive market for these works, but public oversight and control of the means of production and distribution and the rights of the consumers who purchase these goods.


      (boggle!) Do you even have a clue what the inherent contradiction is in that single sentence?

      Besides, there are literally hundreds if not thousands of small publishers out there. Don't like what the big houses are doing? Then vote with your wallet and don't buy their books!
  34. DRM is here to stay by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 1
    "(..) the only way not to support DRM is to vote with your money: don't buy the stuff."

    Yes, if everybody would vote with their wallet, DRM would be dead on arrival and stay dead. Sadly that WILL NOT happen. Because:

    • Most people (say 90, 95%) don't know what it's about, don't experience negative effects first hand (or don't realize it), and/or just don't care.
    • The remainder 5-10% (like the Slashdot crowd) will not have enough influence to turn the heads of the other people around.
    • DRM protections will stay weak, and circumvented easily (example: DVD's). If DRM would be strong AND impact consumer's rights considerably, consumers would leave it on store shelves. So DRM will stay under the radar, lurking in the shadows.
    • Greedy executives will make sure it goes as far as the public can tolerate.

    And since it's really a numbers game, I suspect the net effect of DRM 'protections' will be to keep some obscure works out of the public domain, somewhere in the future. Works that nobody cares enough about to do the work and remove DRM restrictions from it. Popular stuff WILL get hacked.

    With this in mind, I don't understand why executives even bother to slap DRM on everything. But hey, it's their loss, not mine.
    1. Re:DRM is here to stay by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Well, I didn't want to say it so explicitly, but that was indeed the gist of my post. DRM is here to stay, and there is nothing we can do about it.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  35. So what.... by pottymouth · · Score: 0, Troll


    Yeah, but what about the artist? I mean, don't they have the absolute right to deny anything freak'in thing they've ever written, uttered or excreted from public use until every last penny has been wrung from it? I mean, com'on. We're not about knowledge or sharing. We're about money. More is better. To hell with bettering ourselves or others. Let's just get rich and crap on the rest of the world. Yeah, that's the ticket.....

  36. cyborgs will have copy protection features builtin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you don't expect books to be written as barcodes in the future as we get bionic eyes with built in decryptors as seen in ghost in the shell?

  37. DRM harms book sales, freedom helps them by davecb · · Score: 5, Informative
    [Copy of my submission to the U.K. All Party Parliamentary Internet Group, re Digital Rights Management]

    I was the coauthor of a technical book, "Using Samba", published in the United States and Canada by O'Reilly and associates. Despite being made available electronically for no cost, the book was the outstanding seller in its class, and made me substantial royalties.

    The History of "Using Samba"
    This book was published without any form of explicit DRM, in a format suitable for printing from personal computers, with no limitations on distribution of personal printing, and with a license reserving only commercial printing rights to the publisher.

    There was an implicit form of rights management, in that only commercial printers have equipment capable of printing and binding on sufficiently thin paper to make a manageable book: if printed on conventional photocopier paper, the book is over three inches thick. Printing small sections for reference on photocopier paper is perfectly practical, but large-scale printing is not.

    This effectively reinforced the reservations in the license: printing for profit is both illegal and impractical, but personal printing, excerpting and copying is unrestricted.

    The net result is that the book was widely used as a reference, and the on-line readers bought the physical book for its more convenient form in great numbers. O'Reilly has since published a non-trivial number of other books in this manner.

    How copyright deposit libraries should deal with DRM issues
    Copyright and other deposit libraries, such as the National Libraries of the U.K., Canada and the United States should seek and retain unrestricted copies, offering suitable statutory protection to the authors or publishers.

    Upon the expiry of the copyright, the deposit libraries should make the originals available for a nominal fee.

    Upon the failure or discontinuance of a DRM scheme, the publishers should retain the option of republishing under a different scheme under ordinary copyright law.

    On cessation of publication, the copyright should by statute continue for no less than seven years. After this time, upon request by a member of the public, the copyright deposit library should advertise that copyright is deemed to have lapsed, and that it will offer the unrestricted copy within no more than one year. A copyright owner may then give notice that they have in fact recommenced publication, and if so the copyright deposit library shall advertise that fact and not release the unrestricted copy.

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
    1. Re:DRM harms book sales, freedom helps them by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Wish I had mod points today. Well said. All DRM, Copyright extensions, most patents, all that are just money grabs.

    2. Re:DRM harms book sales, freedom helps them by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      There was an implicit form of rights management, in that only commercial printers have equipment capable of printing and binding on sufficiently thin paper to make a manageable book: if printed on conventional photocopier paper, the book is over three inches thick. Printing small sections for reference on photocopier paper is perfectly practical, but large-scale printing is not.

      This is the key point. In very much the same way, music used to be impractical to store on any kind of a large scale except in its original format, due to technical limitations.

      Now let's say that someone comes out with a pBook printer - something that can take a PDF document and generate a bound book with a quality comprable to that of a store-bought version. Let's assume that it costs around $50, with $5 ink/paper cartridges. Now how many people would be the (guessing) $30 hardcopy book? To extend this even closer to the music level, what if the ink/paper cartridges were somehow sold in the stores for $0.49 each? Again, how many people would buy the book? Probably some would, but a lot less than are buying it today.

      Now how likely would you be to spend a lot of your own time working on your next technical book, if you knew it would be released in such a way that your royalties would be 1-2% of what they were for your last book?

      Physical constraints work really well - up until the day that they surprisingly become irrelevant. That's when DRM becomes an issue.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    3. Re:DRM harms book sales, freedom helps them by davecb · · Score: 1
      rjstanford writes:Now let's say that someone comes out with a pBook printer

      They have: a colleague and I have been following them for some years. And yes, there may be a step function in the practicality of this at some time in the future, when I have one in the basement.

      Right now, however, the folks who offer custom printing and binding ask to see the contract that allows you to print the book in question. So the existing legal regieme is sufficient.

      Interestingly, the contract that Baen Books uses as well as one of the O'Reilly contracts does allow me to have a copy custom-printed, so those two publishers are non worried about custom printing/binding.

      --dave

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
  38. DMCA Question by nanojath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright. DRM systems may allow copyright holders to retain control over their material longer than they are legally entitled to. Worse yet, if the software no longer exists to unlock a DRM-protected file, its contents may be lost forever -- exactly the thing libraries are intended to prevent.

    Of course, it seems unlikely that there is anything out there - or likely to be - that couldn't be cracked. But here's a question: something only exists as a DRM protected file. Its copyright expires. The DMCA is still as it is today. Is it still illegal to crack the DRM on this file?

    --

    It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

    1. Re:DMCA Question by 31415926535897 · · Score: 2, Informative
      But here's a question: something only exists as a DRM protected file. Its copyright expires. The DMCA is still as it is today. Is it still illegal to crack the DRM on this file?

      It is my understanding that the DMCA makes circumventing digital restrictions unlawful when it relates to copyright material. So if the copyright has expired, cracking the DRM does not violate the DMCA.

      Of course, as other posters have mentioned, those of us in the US will probably be blessed with perpetual copyright (a la Micky Mouse).

    2. Re:DMCA Question by Alsee · · Score: 1

      While it may be technically legal to circumvent the DRM on an expired copyrighted work, it is still criminal for anyone to provide you with a service or product or even instructions to be able to do so.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  39. GOD, I HOPE THEY SUE!!! by cerebud · · Score: 1

    We need more pressure from the government on these crazy DRM schemes that are a) illegal as described, b) harmful to consumer's equipment, and c) EVIL!

  40. Getting Disneyed. by edunbar93 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Furthermore, they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright.

    That's not much of a problem. As Disney has so carefully demonstrated, that will never, ever happen for any copyrighted work that has been published since 1928. The real problem however:

    Worse yet, if the software no longer exists to unlock a DRM-protected file, its contents may be lost forever -- exactly the thing libraries are intended to prevent

    This will happen a lot sooner than the copyright will expire. Like in maybe 10 or 20 years. And not just that the software might not support old DRM formats (remember, they'll be producing new ones every 6 months because hackers will always find a way around them), but what about the hardware? Will it work in 15 years? Will someone be there to make replacement parts in 15 years? DRM is all about tying one electronic copy to one device at a time, whether it's a PDA-style book reader or a PC. But the whole point of electronic formats is reproducability so that you can prevent data loss (among other things).

    The Disneys and Sonys of the world don't give a rat's ass about whether a historian can understand our culture (and by extension, their own) in a hundred or six hundred years. They care only whether or not they can make money this year.

    --
    "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
    1. Re:Getting Disneyed. by Ahnteis · · Score: 1

      And that is why ... um ... my friend pirate music.

      They are the LAST BASTIONS OF THE PRESERVATION OF OUR CULTURE!!1121

  41. In the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "losing" or losing your key can make you face jail time if the Home Secretary or police want encrypted data.

    It would be insteresting to see if this was ever used against the BPI et al...

  42. Oh yeah, those Bob Denver discs are a hoot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I was younger, the library in my town had a lot of Bob Denver and classical music that I wasn't interested in at the time

    "Skipper!"

    "Little Buddy!"

    "Skipper!"

    "Little Buddy!!!"

  43. Define 'publish' by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 1
    "If, however, you publish something that prevents copies from being made (..)"

    Maybe current copyright laws should be adjusted, to redefine what exactly is meant with 'to publish' a work.

    Let's use an analogy - compare 'publish a work' with 'throw it out on the street for anyone to grab'. If you throw something in the trash and put it out on the street, it's fair game for anyone to go through that trash and take what they find. It's hard to claim something is still yours after you threw it in a dumpster, and watched others take it away.

    Now suppose you throw out an 'uncrackable' safe, with interesting stuff inside it (DRM-protected work). Anyone is still free to grab and try to crack that safe, but can you -legally- claim that throwing that safe on the street is the same as throwing its contents out on the street? If you throw out (distribute) a DRM-protected work, did you really 'publish' the contents inside the DRM envelope? As for a 'public right to know what is inside': that is bull. Everybody has the right to lock their own stuff away in a safe. Until you take out that contents, and show that to the world, did you really publish it?

    It would be useful if the law would clarify that distinction.
  44. first off by majortom1981 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am an etwork admin in a library. Many libraries have cd and dvd repairing machines (the professional kind) so all it takes is to let them know that a cd is scratched. Second Atleats the libary that I work in has a bigger dvd collection then probably the local blockbusters and holywood videos. This could harm many libraries because people dont read books anymore. Libraries depend on free computer and wifi access and the cd and dvd takeout. Oh trust me the riaa and mpaa will hear about it.

  45. DMCA never expires by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Furthermore, they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright.

    Except the DMCA doesn't really address copyright - it seems, rather to be an extra-copyright protection.

    I could claim DMCA protection even on information in the public domain.

    And the DMCA doesn't have any provision whereby its protections cease after a number of years.

    See 1201(c)(1). Were the protections of the DMCA to fall under "copyright", the protections of the DMCA would be rendered inoperative by this language. The only way to read 1201(c)(1) consistently with the rest of copyright law is to read the DMCA as to not be discussing copyright.

  46. people should make a choice by idlake · · Score: 1

    Publishers that use technological measures to restrict use of their content end up restricting fair use. Since they aren't holding up their part of the copyright bargain, they should not be entitled to copyright protection. That is, once their technological measures have been cracked, you should be able to copy the content freely.

    Conversely, publishers that choose to publish without technological restrictions should be entitled to full legal protection of their copyrights (although there should be some minor reforms, like a registration/maintenance requirement and a 20-40 year limit).

  47. Irony... by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    I'm sure these guys will be squarely on the opposite side of that table with plenty of cashola in hand to boot.

    http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2005/05-250.html

  48. Nah, not illegal. by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    However it shouldn't be illigal to break it. Arms races are generally a good thing. Besids the technology itself is interesting to play with.

    1. Re:Nah, not illegal. by bigpat · · Score: 1

      I think you misunderstand, I don't aim to outlaw DRM, just to make it so that copyright laws don't apply if content is only released under DRM.

      Effectively, it would make the use of DRM terribly risky and unwise, because once the DRM was compromised the work would then be effectively in the public domain.

  49. What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    ...it's yours for perpetuity, even after the copyright expires...


    great... except that, as things stand, you'll wind up expiring before the copyright does; what's the point?

  50. Not to worry. by base3 · · Score: 1
    Furthermore, they point out that DRM systems don't automatically switch themselves off when a work goes out of copyright.

    With the Supreme Court having said Congress can authorize perpetual copyright so long as it's done a finite number of years at a time, the copyrighted work will turn to dust before the it goes out of copyright.

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
  51. DRM by SirWraith · · Score: 1

    if the work goes out of copyright, someone can just get it for free anyway. they don't need to worry about their DRM'ed copy

  52. Re:This may be intentional-- Read in a book store? by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    Well, I see numerous people reading manuals, novels, albums and whatnot in major book sellers. These people are not being kicked out. Some read, some drink coffee, and some are there to meet with and collaborate on projects with others. Ideally, I suppose, one of these visitors to the store will buy something or cause to show up someone else who will buy something.

    But, suppose the book distributors decide to shrink wrap paperbacks the way some CD-content can be found. It suddenly will be hard to read a book. Even if we ignore rampant, illegal or "public-service" copies floating around on the Internet or copied and dropped off in places, people will just tear the wrappers. Those wrappers cost money and at SOME point, to save costs, the distribution system will dispense with the wrappers. Maybe the price of books will come down, just to tease readers into becoming purchasers.

    Many books I buy are of a narrow range of topics at times, and then many are impulse purchases. I rarely use an on-line review to influence my purchases. Actually, when I read some of the reviews **after** I have finished a book, the damned review is nothing like the book's contents.

    I suppose if AUTHORS use the technology fate has provided them, they could create their own distribution teams and houses and dispense with the existing structure. Of course, the stores will balk since they won't get bulk, cheap copies, and may not have the ability to return unsold materials.

    Well, maybe there are TOO many books being displayed. I wonder what markets these books make it into (other than secondary, reduced-price). I wonder if they are shredded, pulpled, and recycled.

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  53. Formula for how long a copyright lasts... by The_Rippa · · Score: 1

    It's quite easy...

    m + 5 = length of copyright in years, where m equals the current age of Mickey Mouse.

  54. Read Herring by hacksoncode · · Score: 3, Insightful
    If it takes more than 10 minutes to break today's DRM 100 years from now: a) I will eat my Birkenstocks without salt, and b) someone just shoot me, because we've failed as a civilization.

    So the whole "what about when copyright expires" spiel is a read herring (pun intended).

  55. Charlie Chaplin DVDs? by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    The answer to that would seem to be no, as the dmca only applies to copyrighted material.

    Under your interpretation of 1201 and foreign counterparts, it's legal to crack Charlie Chaplin DVDs and to make and sell circumvention devices that work with Charlie Chaplin DVDs. Under another interpretation, as long as a given DRM format is in active use to restrict even one copyrighted work, it's illegal to make or sell circumvention devices that work with such a format. Courts haven't yet clearly stated which interpretation they will apply.

  56. Protected Video Path by tepples · · Score: 1

    First for video there is a program out there called FRAPS it is designed to record video games and produce video. Well it also records anything playing in a window, so all it would take is to launch it into Windows Media Player have the correct license acquired and then start recording.

    Nope. If a particular file being played in Windows Media Player has the maximum digital restriction bits set, then it will only be played through a Protected Video Path and only through signed video drivers that Microsoft has verified respect the Protected Video Path. Screenshots will show a blank video window. This technology is already in Windows ME and Windows XP for audio and will be added to Windows Vista for video. Files with the protected-path bits set will refuse to play at all on earlier operating systems.

    1. Re:Protected Video Path by ZiakII · · Score: 1

      Any place where I can get a file that has the maximum digital restriction? I want to test this if possible...

    2. Re:Protected Video Path by tepples · · Score: 1

      Any place where I can get a file that has the maximum digital restriction? I want to test this if possible...

      At this point, you probably have to be a licensed Windows Media DRM developer to get Protected Video Path test files because Windows Vista isn't out yet.

  57. Sweat of the brow != copyrightable work by tepples · · Score: 1

    Generally, the owners of such works that are still interesting are "remastering" them

    Too many digital CD remasters published by their have extremely harsh limiting (dynamic compression) to make them sound louder on a portable stereo but which takes all the punch out of drums and squeezes the whole mix together.

    Of course, they claim it isn't the 60's release, but that the "remastering" lets them renew the copyright because it is a derivative work, not a copy.

    Don't be so sure. Unless there's substantial original input into an adaptation, then no new work is created under United States law. The Supreme Court has ruled that sweat of the brow itself is not originality in Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service ; see also Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. .

    When you print a copy of a Public Domain work, like Shakespeare, the copyrights are blasted all over it.

    Only because most copyrighted editions of Shakespeare that I've seen in university bookstores have commentary blasted all over it too.

    With the copies of older songs released on newer formats, it is always claimed that the new release has a new copyright for the content, even though it may be in the Public Domain

    The claimed copyright is often on a compilation of singles into an album and on the album's new cover art, not the recorded singles themselves.

    Oh, and under current law, breaking the DRM, even on something in the Public Domain is illegal.

    Could you point to the specific court case establishing this interpretation? If it was Universal v. Reimerdes, as I suspect, could you quote the part of the opinion that you refer to?

  58. Repeated copyright term extensions by tepples · · Score: 1

    the copyright law stands on the premise that eventually things will get back to the public where it rightfully belongs.

    Copyright Act of 1976 added 19 years. Bono Act of 1998 added 20 years. Do you see where the mouse's senators are going with this?

  59. Sonny Bono owns you by tepples · · Score: 1

    ANY attempt to bring an argument along the lines of "how do we put the copyright expiration date into the DRM metadata" was laughed at.

    They were laughed at because the same people who were behind the DMCA were behind copyright term extensions at least in Europe (1993) and the United States (1998). The goal was to pick some remote region that had an absurdly long copyright term (Bavaria was among the first to adopt life plus 70) and then "harmonise" it to the rest of the developed world. Once the developed world is up to life plus 70, the next step is to "harmonise" to Mexico and its life plus 100.

  60. Welcome to the Matrix, Neo... by benjamindees · · Score: 1

    Because eventually Microsoft will release a version of Windows that won't run without it.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  61. Re:DRM defniitions by Anomalyst · · Score: 1

    Digital Rectal Manacles

    --
    There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
  62. DRM fair use? try anti-constitutional by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

    US Constitution (GWB toilet paper) Art.I, sec 8: "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings..." Unexpiring DRM intrinsicly violates the "limited Times" provision. Unbreakable DRM clearly breaks the letter, the intent and the fabric of the US Constitution and its foundational basis. INAL, I am a literate US citizen.

  63. There actually is a fairly reasonable solution by Physics+Nobody · · Score: 1

    Though I doubt it's ever going to be implemented...

    But you could just require that if a company wants to distribution something with DRM they also provide a DRM-free copy to the Library of Congress or similar entity, that can be stored until the copyright expires (heh, like that will ever happen...) and then be made available to the public.

    Of course, you have to take steps to ensure that whatever medium it's on is actually readable 100 years from now...

    --

    Physics is good

  64. Wrong. by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    The songs I've bought from iTunes tell me that I can transfer them to a total of x number of other computers. (Is it 5? I don't remember. Lets just say it is 5.) Well, if I get a new computer every 2 years, that means in 12 years from buying a song, I can't use it on my new computer any more. That's kind of bullshit.

    You're an idiot.

    There's no limit on the number of times you can transfer a song. The rule is you can't have more than 5 computers authorized to play the song at any one time. So unless you plan on keeping all 6 of those computers and expect to be able to play your iTMS purchases on all six ou wont have any problems. You simply deauthorize your old PC when you get your new one. And to answer your next question (since I can tell you haven't really bothered to read the user agreement) you can deauthorize a computer even if you don't have access to it any more (like it got burned up in a fire, the HD failed, ect). So even if you forget to deauthorize your first five PC's when you get the sixth, you can access your account information from iTunes and in one click deauthorize the other machines and get those five slots back (this feature can be used once per year). Or you can send an email to Apple and they will deauthorize them for you.

  65. Ridiculous mod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How the hell is this offtopic?!?!?!

  66. This isn't new by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 1

    Public domain works are being DRMed by online ebook vendors. A copy of Poe's works, downloaded from an online ebook store bore the following notice as well: "NOTICE: This ebook is licensed to the original purchaser only. Duplication or distribution to any person via email, floppy disk, network, print out, or any other means is a violation of International copyright law and subjects the violator to severe fines and/or imprisonment. This notice overrides the Adobe Reader permissions which are erroneous. This book cannot be legally lent or given to others. " So apparenlty, you can not only DRM ebooks that should be public domain, but you can also claim a copyright on them too.

    --
    I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
    1. Re:This isn't new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The publisher has added their own creative work - the layout for easy e-reading, images, etc. - to the book. You can't reproduce the pubisher's creative work, but you'd be within your rights to redistribute the textual information in the book without the publisher's creative elements.

      Similarly, you can't reproduce the photograph I took of the Mona Lisa, because the photo is my copyright. But there's no copyright on the Mona Lisa itself, so you could make your own photo of her and distribute that.