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Cutting the Cost of Household Bills?

schlumpf_louise asks: "I'm in the UK, and I'm about to move out of university accommodation and live in a house, for the first time. When we move, we will have to pay for water, electricity and gas. We'll still be students renting from a landlord, so we can't make any major physical changes to the property. The house has gas central heating and a gas cooker. Four computers will be running pretty much all the time, in addition to the usual general household appliances. What tips do any of you have for (legally) saving on bills? Are there any technologies that are worth buying for long term savings? What should we not do, or not use?" What other saving tips, and frugal suggestions might you have for a house full of college students?

370 comments

  1. Do your computers always need to be on? by orin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is the four computers running all the time that will cost you a significant amount of money. What you should all do is work out when your computers actually need to be running. Although its nice to sit down and instantly start working, or to check your email when you are up at 3am going to the loo, if you are pinching pennies you'll notice that even over the course of a month, shutting down computers when they aren't doing anything will save you a significant number of pounds. Chances are as students you'll be spending a lot of time away from the house anyway at the pub, classes, the pub again, the local curry place, the pub. If you add that to your sleep routine you'll probably find that the number of hours each week that you actually need your computers is only a small fraction of the 168 that they will be on. Set your automated tasks to occur when you are eating dinner or watching the TV rather than having your computer on at 3am just to backup and download updates. Is having a great distributed computing score worth the price of several meals each month? Also consider. If you all already have mobile phones, do you really need a landline?

    1. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
      Do your computers always need to be on?

      You must be new here.

    2. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      What you should all do is work out when your computers actually need to be running.

      Leaking appliances is certainly something to consider. Unfortunately you're stuck with countless bad decisions by your landlord, including inefficient appliances, lousy insulation, poor choices in heating/cooling systems, etc. For those that aren't subjected to a landlord's provisions and can call their own shots, I'd suggest a few options we've learned:

      • Check with your electric utility for peak-demand control options: Ours has a wireless (440 MHz type frequency) way to shut off our water heater and other electrical appliances briefly during peak demand when it is experienced, saving them lots of money. By using this plan, we get a $0.06/kw hour rate vs $0.09.
      • Insulate like heck. Wish I would have learned this trick earlier on. Yes, there's a cost/benefit ratio, but I've yet to meet a rational insulating project that didn't pay back within 1-2 years (or earlier).
      • Vent heat: Got an attic? How well do you get rid of heat? Our last house actually had all the heat bottled up in the attic because the previous owner/bozo thought sealing all the vents was a good thing. Active fans based on attic temp are good things in extreme cases and are cheap to buy and install.
      • Blue-flame heaters. Live in a home older than 30-40 yrs? You probably have enough air exchange to use a blue flame heater, which is 100% efficient. Screw the old furnace or even the new 93% unit, blue flame is 100% efficient and uses no electricity! We got one after a week-long ice storm and discovered it lowered our total natural gas bill by 40%.
      • Get rid of incandescents! They generate waste heat like hell and are expensive to run. Go flourescent as much as you can. We switched out our outdoor lights too (including former mercury bulb yard lights) with this and have seen a noticable drop in electric rates.
      • Design for low cost: Things that must be left on must be cheap: That's my rule. Rather than keep all my systems running, I have a low draw laptop that's hooked up to a flat-screen (tested to make sure it doesn't suck power when off). I like to leave a few lights on when we're not here - they're all converted to flourescent. Anything that has to be left on must be cheap.


    3. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

      Vent heat

      They're in the UK - that'll never be a problem ;)

    4. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1
      I keep my computers running in the winter. It's free. If I don't run the computers, the electric heat runs more often. Rather get some use out of that energy other than heating up a hunk of ceramic.

      This working out when the computers ought to be on sounds like a lot of flailing around being overly proactive. Easier to do stuff like replace incandescent bulbs with fluorescent substitutes, buy LCD monitors instead of CRTs, and things of that sort that only have to be done once.

      One apartment I once rented had a washer and drier inside, with the exhaust from the drier NOT being vented to the outside. Bad during summer, but during winter, was actually nice. Humidified the place too.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    5. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Aurix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is the first post suggesting computers as a way of powersaving? For gods sake, look at things that use the most power first.

      I mean, if you're looking at things that use power, don't use driers. Heaters/Aircon, etc will use a heap more power than your computers do (assuming you've nothing out of the ordinary for casual uni students).

      Use off peak power if you've got an electronic hot water system, etc etc.

      Trying to save a few bucks on computer power when you're spending hundreds on heating is silly.

      Hope this helps.

    6. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by badfish99 · · Score: 1
      At least one computer needs to be on all the time.

      They need to nominate one of the computers as the "bittorent machine" and do all their filesharing on that. Then the others can be turned off when they are not in use.

    7. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by orin · · Score: 1

      They mentioned that they had gas central heating and a gas stove. Most uni students can't afford a drier. These are probably both out. I run four computers in my home lab, central gas heating and a gas stove. I live in a 3 bedroom house with my wife and son. My quarterly gas bill is almost 1/10th of my quarterly electricity bill. Going from "all computers on, all the time" to shutting them down at night and restarting them in the morning (I work from home) saved me more money than my entire quarterly gas and water bills. Your mileage may vary and perhaps gas is cheaper and electricity is more expensive where I live.

    8. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by rjforster · · Score: 1

      >> They're in the UK - that'll never be a problem ;)

      I wish. My last rented flat must have had close to zero loft insulation. Very cold in winter and very hot in summer. The loft space trapped the heat making it 25 - 30 Centigrade at night, maybe more. It was very inpleasant.
      Of course, venting heat was never the correct solution, proper loft insulation would have been.

    9. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Rendo · · Score: 1

      You're a little misplaced with your information. Most computers go into standby mode after 20 minutes on non use and this using exponentially less power than when it's fully running. A computer that's ALWAYS on, IE without standby mode generally only uses $14-15 a month (Canadian figures) That's assuming you're running a 500W PSU. In standby mode that's fractionally less. Yes, you will save money by turning your PCs off when they're not in use, but telling him it'll hog up his electricity bill is outlandish. I have 2 PC's in my house running ALL the time, they go into standby mode when not in use after 20 minutes and my electricity bills are only $40 a month. $20 of that is the cost of GETTING the power to me, so I only use $20 worth of electricity... A MONTH.

    10. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by nmg196 · · Score: 1

      > I keep my computers running in the winter. It's free.

      Free electricity? I doubt it. Are you on geothermal, solar or hydropower?

      > Rather get some use out of that energy other than heating up a hunk of ceramic.

      A computer is a very inefficient way to heat a house. The amount of power it uses up will NOT simply come off your heating bill. Certainly not if your heating is anything other than electricity (which is currently about the least inefficient way to produce heat that there is). Heating with natural gas or oil is way cheaper than electricity in most countries (probably apart from those with lots of hydropower available).

      > This working out when the computers ought to be on sounds
      > like a lot of flailing around being overly proactive.

      If you're clever enough to switch on a computer, you can probably handle the mental agility of knowing when you need to use it or not. I'm glad everyone doesn't think like you. You must be an American to have that kind of attitude towards power conservation?

      > Humidified the place too.

      Humidity is bad and causes damp, mould, respiratory and other health problems. Why do you think people spend so much money on dehumidifiers? Only if you live in an extrememly cold or high place (mountains) will you need to humidify. Humidity should be about 40-50%.

    11. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by stinerman · · Score: 1

      ... electricity (which is currently about the least inefficient way to produce heat that there is ... Heating with natural gas or oil is way cheaper than electricity in most countries

      Natural gas prices are insane at the moment where I live (Ohio). We bought a plug-in oil-filled radiator to help keep costs down. Is natural gas more efficient (in energy terms) than electric heat. Certainly. Is it cheaper? Not on your life.

    12. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by quadong · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "A computer is a very inefficient way to heat a house. The amount of power it uses up will NOT simply come off your heating bill. Certainly not if your heating is anything other than electricity"

      Ahem. Physicist here. First of all, he _said_ that he had electric heat. If you have electric heat, then running your computer while the heat is on is free, just as he says. A computer converts all of the energy it uses into heat, just as an electric heater does. If you're interested in making heat, then you could call both devices 100% efficient. The only difference is that in the computer, some of that energy does more interesting things before turning into heat.

      As you say, if you have gas heat, this is not true. Gas is cheaper per unit of energy (although this is hard to tell from your bills, since they measure them in very different units!).

    13. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by quadong · · Score: 1

      Are you sure that gas is more expensive than electricity? In Minnesota, our natural gas prices are also very high this year, but electricity doesn't even come close to competing.

      Check the cost per therm for gas and the cost per kWh for electricity. A therm is 29.3 kWh.

      (By the way, if your radiator uses electric heat, what's the oil for?)

    14. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Jettamann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Going to the PUB 50% less (stay home) will save you more money then any other suggestion here.

      --
      - No Sig for you!
    15. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by stinerman · · Score: 1

      My nat. gas furnace is so inefficient that it evens out.

      The radiator is oil-filled. It plugs in to the wall in order to use electricity to heat the oil. The oil is cycled throughout the radiator and subsequently heats the room.

    16. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by edunbar93 · · Score: 1

      Do your computers always need to be on?

      You must be new here.


      Um, no. The computer does not need to be on when you're sleeping. Nor does the computer need to be on when you're at work. That's 16+ hours a day you're not using your computer, and you'd have to be pretty delusional to think that you're not spending scads of cash on keeping it running all the time. Since me and my wife stopped running our computers 24/7, our electric bill went down at least 20%. If you have more computers, your savings will be more.

      --
      "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
    17. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by SillySlashdotName · · Score: 1

      Thermal mass.

      Electricity heats the oil (fairly efficiently) which heats the air (not as efficiently)

      --
      Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
    18. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by n00tz · · Score: 1
      I live in a 5,000+ sq ft home with my parents on break from college with a full time job nearby. My dad is a real energy minded person and it makes sense. When we built our house he made sure that everything we put in was the best cost-efficient in the long run

      Some of the ways we have saved multitudes of money on our ongoing necessities (energy) have included
      1. Using Flourescent Lights (higher cost up front, very low energy bill) Even the light kits for our ceiling fans are flourescent tubes. The only place we use incandesant bulbs are in very low usage areas like closets (which don't need more than about 65w bulbs anyways), and we are sure to turn them off when they aren't in use. Based on some statistical analysis that my father has done comparing our square footage and energy bill to another house we owned we save about 15% just by doing this.
      2. Using Geothermal Heat Pumps. Geothermal uses a loop of water in the ground to extract heat from in the winter, and pump heat into during the summer. Open air heat pumps have to deal with a much higher temperature differential putting more work into getting that desired temperature.(This is a pointer for those of you that might buy a house or build a house in the future)
      3. Ensuring the insulation was installed correctly. The flaps on the edge of the insulation need to be pulled OVER the studs. Drywall installers may not like this but then again, they are working for you.(Again this is for those of you who are building or remodeling). My father estimated about a 10% heat loss for poor insulation installations for brick houses, it'd be more for aluminum sided houses.
      4. Using windows and shades with the maximum R-Value that was economically sane. (same concept as above mentioned insulation)
      5. Lastly, something that my father is extremely anal about. Thermostat. Setting your thermostat lower in the winter and higher in the summer saves A LOT. He sets it to 68 in the winter 78 in the summer, but a 72/76 would be more comfortable, and still save some cash. Another thing we do is use a gas log fireplace on the colder days to supplement the heat pump so it doesn't kick the emergency/conventional heat(read: HIGH WATTAGE ELECTRICAL HEATER). My father claims this way saves us about 20% energy over the course of the high demand months.


      You might also want to check into energy saving programs that your power supplier offers. Having Geo-Thermal heat pumps, energy saving water heaters and various other options bring in the deductions on your line item power bill.
      --
      I had college once, but I drank some fluids and got a lot of rest and eventually it was cured.
    19. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by SillySlashdotName · · Score: 1

      You were correct (as far as I can tell) until you started talking about humidity.

      Any time a living area needs to be heated to maintain a comfortable temperature, the humidity needs to be addressed.

      In the summer, the humidity is higher, so dehumidifying the air reduces the mold and mildew problems, but it also makes the bodies heat dumping mechanism (sweating) work more efficiently, so the SAME TEMPERATURE feels cooler. In the winter, indoor humidity can fall into the single digits, causing irritation to the mucus membranes, increasing chances of getting sick, and causing the wood in a home to shrink - possibly letting heated air out that would have been contained - and makes you feel colder. In addition, low humidity causes static electricity to build up - not good for static sensitive electrical equipment!

      Any time room air is heated, humidity should be added to maintain a comfortable level - that is why people spend so much money on HUMIDIFIERS. My furnace has a built in humidifier that works anytime the furnace is running. It does not maintain a high enough humidity level, but it helps.

      --
      Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
    20. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by pthisis · · Score: 1

      Since me and my wife stopped running our computers 24/7, our electric bill went down at least 20%

      Did you not have it power-saving properly before? Once the drives spin down and the monitor shuts off, the power draw just isn't that big (unless you have a monster gaming graphics card that doesn't know how to power-save).

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    21. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by pthisis · · Score: 1

      A computer converts all of the energy it uses into heat

      That's a "space heater", not a "computer". My computer produces light, other electromagnetic waves (802.11), sound, and airflow as well as heat. Possibly some of those are later converted to heat, but I wouldn't say the computer converts the energy it takes in to heat. And certainly a lot of the light, sound, and em leaves the house before it turns to heat--it's possible that the airflow does the same, I'm not sure.

      I have no idea what fraction of the total energy this is--probably fairly small--but it's non-zero.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    22. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by austad · · Score: 1

      My old roomie had 6 machines in his room that were on all the time. We put them in front of the air return vent with a sheet of plastic over it to direct all of the hot air into the vent. I left the furnace fan on all the time, so it distributed the heat throughout the house. My furnace lit up only like once a day with this in place. The electric was a bit higher, but it would have been high anyway.

      Another thing, if you have central air/heating, keep the fan on all the time. It will actually decrease your heating and cooling costs, and if you buy some 3M filters, it will keep your air much cleaner and reduce dust in the house. Since I started doing this, I noticed about a 10-15% drop in my gas bills, and I have virtually no dust in the house.

      --
      Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
    23. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Since me and my wife ...

      Yes, but seeing as your statement contradicts the fundamental laws of physics (re: slashdot posting and marriage) it is obviously not a real-world example.

      Your untested theories have no place here!

    24. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by quadong · · Score: 1

      You're right. It's non-zero, but it's negligible.

      - The visible light, unless your monitor is aimed straight out a window, is almost all converted into heat when it hits objects in your room. Each time it hits an object, somewhere between 50% and 90% is absorbed, the rest is reflected, but most of that just hits another object in the room. And the windows don't transmit 100% either.

      - The sound is almost all converted into heat when it hits objects in your room (unless a large fraction of the sound is sub-woofer and then it does get out fairly well).

      - The airflow all gets converted to heat when it hits objects in your room, unless you have such powerful fans that there's a draft in or out of your house because of your computer.

      - The radio waves are the only form of energy that gets out at a resonable rate. I didn't think about this because my computers use wired ethernet. However, this is still only a few watts out of several hundred and is negligable for most practical purposes.

      In summary, my educated guess is that over 95% of the energy that comes in goes into heating your house.

    25. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Shads · · Score: 1

      Actually, I live in ohio also... and this year it was cheaper to use spaceheaters and my computers for heat than it was to use the gas heat. Our bill hit near 700$ Gas with an electric bill of 120$... next month which was colder (and my mother down the road, bill went up again) I had spaceheaters and the computers on 24x7. I had a 340$ Gas and electric bill of 260$. Im seriously considering seeing if I can change over to electric heat after this years price jump... in the past there would have been no question that gas was better... after this year, I need to get some estimates.

      --
      Shadus
    26. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by TheGreatOrangePeel · · Score: 1

      As already pointed out, P2P and I also have my computers (that's right, both of them) gene/protien folding while at work and sleep.

      ...not to mention that linux box does many things while I'm at work including, but limited to, backing up and compressing all my data, sending a "Message of the Day" (MOTheD ... think `fortune`) to myself and co-workers over the lunch break and hosting a webpage for those who prefer not to get MOTheD by email.

    27. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

      Those energy saving light bulbs can be a bad idea sometimes. Sure, they may last thousands of hours, but they end up going dim after a certain amount of time. I suggest those energy saving light bulbs are only worth it if the light you need doesn't have to be bright.

      Here are some ideas. Buy a motion detector. Hook it up in places that tend to have the lights left on all the time. Maybe the place is a place that is difficult to turn off the light because it's dark otherwise and difficult to find the switch.

      Although others have mentioned this and the like, I'm going to say it. Water heaters with timers on them would be a good idea. Also, can't sunlight heat the water quite a bit?

    28. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Grab · · Score: 1

      Great - if you've got $$$ to spare to donate to protein folding stuff (and other random stuff that doesn't achieve anything) then that's fine.

      OP doesn't *have* spare $$$ (or £££), so the first thing to go is anything that doesn't give you a benefit. Protein folding and P2P would be prime examples.

      Grab.

    29. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Grab · · Score: 1

      Don't bet on it. Buying bottles is a killer on the budget. And you don't have to leave your comfy chair to do it, you just have to stock up on extra at each shopping trip...

    30. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Bishop · · Score: 1

      Do the math. A 15watt compact flouro (equivalent to a 60watt incandescent) will pay for itself in about 1000 hours. 1000 hours is the typical life of an incadescent bulb. A compact flouro has a listed lifetime of 8000 hours. Even if you replace the compact flouro at its half life you have still saved money.

      If the compact flouro is not bright enough, buy a higher watt compact flouro. A 23watt compact flouro is much brighter then a 60watt incandescent but the compact flouro is still cheaper to run. The brighter light should pay for itself in 1800 hours.

      assume: $0.075 per kWh, $3.50 13W compact flouro, $5 23W compact flouro, and free incandescent bulbs. Sylvania, GE, et al consider a 13W compact flouro to have the equivalent light output of a 60W soft white incandescent.

    31. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure P2P the way most people use it saves lots of money...

    32. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

      Okay, I'll do the math. Using Amazon.com for help.

      I'll use the 60 watt equivalent.

      GE Soft White Light Bulb; 60 watts; 820 lumens; 1500 hours; $1.50

      Compact Fluorescent Energy Saver; 14 watts; 800 lumens (close enough to 820); 10,000 hours; $11.98

      6 cents per kilowatt hour...

      Calculating cost for 5,000 hours, replacing the energy saving one every 5,000 hours even though the lifetime is 10,000 hours

      GE Soft White Light Bulbs: ($1.5 * 5) + (5000 * 60/1000 * 0.06) = $7.50 + $18 = $25.50

      Compact Fluorescent Energy Saver: ($11.98 * 1) + (5000 * 13/1000 * 0.06) = $11.98 + $3.9 = $15.88

      Those energy saving light bulbs tend to go dim over time, and may be rended non-useful half way through their life. I know, I have one I use a lot of the time in my room while on my computer, but it's gotten so dim that I'm going to have to replace it I guess.

      After doing the math, I guess you're right. It would be interesting to find out at what hour point the energy saving light bulbs (by this I obviously mean those compact spiral ones) start to lose enough lumens to be noticeable.

    33. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Bishop · · Score: 1

      $12 for a CFL is about 3 times too expensive. Even the grocery store charges less then $6 for a 13-15W CFL.

    34. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't you read? He said "The house has gas central heating and a gas cooker". That's a gas boiler pumping water around in pipes to the radiators, and it's very much cheaper than electric. Fancy $30-40 a month power bill that included cooking, hot water and heating? That's what the UK has when they have gas.

    35. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Watch the hurricanes this summer, most of the big increase in gas prices was due to a whole lot of the GoM gas being out of comission most of the fall/winter. If you see a tropical storm that looks like it's headed for the area between NO and Houston you might see if your utility has fixed price option this summer (the warm winter is likely to crater gas prices unless A/Cs fire up in a spectacular way).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    36. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by DeputySpade · · Score: 1

      Don't buy bottles, either. Homebrew! It's cheaper, you get better beer, and you'll get invited to all the parties. :D

      --


      This space intentionally left blank
    37. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by mfarver · · Score: 1

      Design for low cost: Things that must be left on must be cheap: That's my rule. Rather than keep all my systems running, I have a low draw laptop that's hooked up to a flat-screen (tested to make sure it doesn't suck power when off). I like to leave a few lights on when we're not here - they're all converted to flourescent. Anything that has to be left on must be cheap.

      We've been experimenting with a Kill-a-watt watt-hour meter and have found some interesting energy wasters in the house. The most noteable... my roommate's brand new APC SmartUPS 400 consumes 11 watts whether its on or off (running the battery charger I'd guess, no wonder the batteries die so quickly). Tivo and the TV are responsible for about 800watt/hours per day... but the big killer is the 24cubic foot side by side fridge (purchased by the previous homeowner in 1992) at 2.4kWh per day. Modern fridges are significantly more efficient than even 10 year old models, new models often consume less than 1kwH per day. I am looking to replace the fridge as my next major purchases, simple payback will be 1.5 - 2 years.

      Mark

    38. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by pla · · Score: 1

      GE Soft White Light Bulb; 60 watts; 820 lumens; 1500 hours; $1.50
      Compact Fluorescent Energy Saver; 14 watts; 800 lumens (close enough to 820); 10,000 hours; $11.98


      Too generous. $12 for a single CF bulb? I buy them in 6-packs for between $5 and $10 per pack. I have exactly two CF bulbs in my house that, due to a the shade, I needed to use the "expensive" ones shaped exactly like an incandescent, and even those only cost me $7 each...

      Yeah, CF bulbs WILL save you a good chunk of money, house-wide. The ONLY reason I've heard not to use them (from my own parents, sigh sigh sigh), some people dislike the startup time (ooh, a half second delay, how can I stand it?) or the spectrum (which unless you go with halogen, IMO CFs have a better spectrum than incandescent).

    39. Re:Do your computers always need to be on? by Mike1024 · · Score: 1

      Ahem. Physicist here. First of all, he _said_ that he had electric heat. If you have electric heat, then running your computer while the heat is on is free, just as he says.

      Are you talking about the original poster? Because he said he had gas heating;

      The house has gas central heating and a gas cooker.

      Of course, electricity is approximately 3 times the cost of gas, per joule.

      Michael

      --
      "Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
  2. heat/cooling by chills42 · · Score: 0, Insightful

    2nd? I would say try running heat/cooling as little as possible while still keeping it comfortable..

  3. Ramen noodles by dslauson · · Score: 3, Funny

    Also, Macaroni and Cheese. Have you considered selling plasma?

    1. Re:Ramen noodles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Have you considered selling plasma?

      Um, forget that. Kill two birds with one stone:
      1) Cancel your pr0n subscriptions.
      2) Sperm Bank.

      That was the funniest comic I read all week in my college newspaper.

    2. Re:Ramen noodles by chewy_fruit_loop · · Score: 1

      they don't pay you for your blood in the uk, its called a donation

    3. Re:Ramen noodles by digitalgiblet · · Score: 2, Funny
      " they don't pay you for your blood in the uk, its called a donation"

      Here in the US of A we don't sell our blood or donate it; we rent it out to the highest bidder. I personally favor a nice "lease-to-own" program for my clients. Sweet recurring revenue for me, eventual ownership for my clients. If this were '98 or '99 I'd be talking to venture capitalists by now...

    4. Re:Ramen noodles by japhmi · · Score: 1

      they don't pay you for your blood in the uk, its called a donation

      In the US, we have a choice. You can go to the Red Cross (or some other local non-profit org) and donate your blood. You can also find places that will pay you for your plasma.

      --
      "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
    5. Re:Ramen noodles by dslauson · · Score: 1
      "they don't pay you for your blood in the uk, its called a donation"
      Man, every time I forget how much better things are in the UK than they are in the US, somebody on Slashdot reminds me. Much appreciated.

      FYI, it is illegal to pay money in the U.S. for blood that will be used in transfusions If you get paid for blood or plasma (or Platelets or RBCs or whatever), it is probably going to research.

    6. Re:Ramen noodles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Have you considered selling plasma?

      [Looking at my secret underground tokamak fusion generator] I think it's going to be a little difficult to get it out...

    7. Re:Ramen noodles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember a discussion about this in my psychology class. Apparently sperm banks are a huge market in North America.

    8. Re:Ramen noodles by Ithika · · Score: 1

      Parent didn't say "blood" but "plasma". I believe you do get paid for plasma donation, however, because it's such a horrible and invasive procedure. They pipe you up to a little filter to remove the plasma and give you back your red blood cells in one smooth move. So it takes a good deal longer.

  4. Turn off by Duhavid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Turn off any and all electrical devices not in use.

    Pile on the blankets, dont run the heater.

    --
    emt 377 emt 4
    1. Re:Turn off by mctk · · Score: 2, Funny
      Yes, turn the heat off. We've done it. And saving on bills hasn't been the only plus! You'll be a lot closer to my friends. No really, you'll be huddled together all of the time. Leaving those nachos out for a few days will no longer be an issue. You'll be so incredibly happy when you get on the bus in the morning and thaw out your toes. You can overclock your computer without having to submerge it in oil. You'll no longer dread spring-cleaning as you long for the thaw. And, of course, you'll get outside more often!

      "Hey man, I'll be outside warming up."

      --
      Paul Grosfield - the quicker picker upper.
    2. Re:Turn off by robbo · · Score: 1

      Better still, unplug them or cut their power using a powerbar when not in use. The cumulative energy consumption of all the modern electronics and appliances when they're 'off' is about as much as keeping one or two 100W bulbs illuminated all the time.

      --
      So long, and thanks for all the Phish
    3. Re:Turn off by jurt1235 · · Score: 1

      Yep, and if you heat, set limits:

      If temparature in the house below 15C, than heater can be turned on in rooms in use.

      If temparature with heater on 18C it is warm enough, keep temperature like that.

      Ofcourse no heater on at night or when you are not at home, and my place its gasbill was 75% lower than the 21C everywhere in the 2 room with kitchen appartment people.

      What also helps is live in an appartment anyway: Your neighbours do keep your place warmer. I had one place which always was a comfortable 21C without me ever turning on the heater. My neighbours literally paid the heating bill for me.

      --

      My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
    4. Re:Turn off by Angry_Admin · · Score: 1

      An old boss of mine did that after he got disgusted with a gas heating bill. He decided he would turn the heat OFF, but he lived in an apartment building, so he could get away with that.
      Apparently, the building wasn't insulated well at all. He dropped some ice cream on the kitchen floor and, instead of picking it up right away, he figured he'd wait until it melted and then clean it up. Anyways, the next day he went to clean it up and it was STILL frozen solid on his floor!
      I'd hate to see what his place looked like after he described that incident.

      --
      Wait a minute. I got it. You could play with your magic nose goblins.
    5. Re:Turn off by TClevenger · · Score: 1

      And watch out for those accessories, too. I have a set of Boston Acoustics PC speakers that drew 40 watts continuously, even when turned "off." They've since been put on a power strip.

    6. Re:Turn off by japhmi · · Score: 1

      He decided he would turn the heat OFF, but he lived in an apartment building, so he could get away with that.
      Apparently, the building wasn't insulated well at all. He dropped some ice cream on the kitchen floor and, instead of picking it up right away, he figured he'd wait until it melted and then clean it up. Anyways, the next day he went to clean it up and it was STILL frozen solid on his floor!


      I lived in an apartment once that was above a bunch of people from a warmer climate. I didn't need to use the heat, because they had theirs on full blast all day and night. The heat from below would heat my apartment too!

      --
      "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
    7. Re:Turn off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live above an 80-year-old lady. I never have to use the heat.

    8. Re:Turn off by BigBir3d · · Score: 1

      Just nothing the heat down 4degF made a different in my heating bill (nat. gas) of almost 8%. Not bad. (now set at 64F)

    9. Re:Turn off by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 1

      The cumulative energy consumption of all the modern electronics and appliances when they're 'off' is about as much as keeping one or two 100W bulbs illuminated all the time.

      Why include the comparison? Why not just say "one or two hundred watts" instead of "as much as keeping one or two 100W bulbs illuminated all the time."?

    10. Re:Turn off by kfstark · · Score: 1

      Agreed,

      We turned off our electric radiant ceiling heat in our condo after the first months bill. When a couple of drunk, cold friends decided to turn it on one night, we turned it off at the circuit breaker.

      --Keith

  5. Your computers double as space heaters by guspasho · · Score: 5, Funny

    Only obvious things come to mind. In case they aren't so obvious to you: Use the computers for heat in the winter, try to pipe the heat away in the summer. Wear a sweater. Shower with your girlfriend. Wear your clothes multiple days to save on laundry loads. But of course all these habits you probably picked up in college anyway.

    1. Re:Your computers double as space heaters by LeonGeeste · · Score: 0

      Showering with my girlfriend actually makes it take longer (than two combined showers) because I have to come in her, THEN we have to both do normal shower procedures.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    2. Re:Your computers double as space heaters by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Do your fooling around before you get in the shower.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:Your computers double as space heaters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn... you must shower in... 16 seconds flat then?

    4. Re:Your computers double as space heaters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Showering with my girlfriend actually makes it take longer ... because I have to come in her,

      You are in the shower and you're still not allowed to give her a facial or pearl necklace?

    5. Re:Your computers double as space heaters by PsychoBrat · · Score: 1

      We occasionally have an ad that plays on a local station in Melbourne about saving household energy. It has a rather frivolous little song that goes along with it, and one of the line's is "have a shower with your fella, Stella". Based on both anecdotal evidence and personal experience, I never really figured out how this was supposed to help the situation...

      --
      Invisible to moderators.
    6. Re:Your computers double as space heaters by GorgarWillEatYou · · Score: 1

      Don't shower at home. Get your fat arse some exercise at the uni gym and then shower there.

    7. Re:Your computers double as space heaters by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      I was gonna say. When *I* take a shower it's like 4 minutes. When *she* takes a shower it's more like 7. When both of us take a shower it never fails to be under 15.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    8. Re:Your computers double as space heaters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      golden shower, anyone?

  6. Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by Deffexor · · Score: 3, Informative

    Lightbulbs that use Fluorescent tube technology, but screw right into the sockets of regular bulbs.
    - They use ~25% of the power of regular bulbs (for the equivalent light output)
    - They tend to last 5 times longer
    - The electronic balasts of modern CFB don't cause flicker (and thus avoid headaches...)
    - Modern CFBs use better phosphorescents that match the color temperature of typical incandescents.

    The only real downside is that they *are* more expensive than regular bulbs, but the energy (money) you save in the first few months allows it to quickly pay for itself.

    1. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by RingDev · · Score: 1

      Home Depot (not sure what the UK equivalent is) has 5 packs for ~$10. A bit more expensive then standard 60watt bulbs, but they put out the same lums as a traditional 60watt bulb at 14watts consumed.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    2. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can get 11 watt (equivalent to 60 watt incandescent) ones pretty cheap ($1/bulb in a 3-pack, I think) at Ikea.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by blindseer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The local electric utilities will buy the CF bulbs for you. One will hand them out if you visit their offices. Others offer mail in rebates. There's a limit of something like six per household so people don't turn around and sell them in neighboring communities for profit. I don't know how common this is but the local hardware stores advertise "free" CF lightbulbs all the time so they get their $10 on the deal.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    4. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by teab+v1.0 · · Score: 1

      When I was at university in the UK a few years ago, someone came round to the Student Union & handed out these type of bulb, maximum of two per student. Since I was living in a shared house with 4 other students at the time, we could easily manage to use them in every light fitting that would take them.

      Of course, at least two of the people in the house claimed that they couldn't use them in their room, as they couldn't cope with fluorescent lights, or they flickered, or they took too long to warm up...

      We mainly used them in those rooms that had the lights on for the longest periods in the end.

    5. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by sakusha · · Score: 1

      You missed the main disadvantage of fluorescent bulbs: the color sucks. The spectrum of fluorescents provides a less aesthetically pleasing light than tungsten lamps. Fluorescents tend to be greenish and cold, tungsten yellow and warm.

    6. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by name*censored* · · Score: 1

      If you are able to delay how much time you have *before* you move out, then you can save up money and buy expensive-to-buy-but-cheaper-to-run-than-alternati ves... I myself am moving out soonish, but I've decided to wait a little while longer so I can (for example) buy LCDs instead of CRTs and save on power. And little things like buy extra furniture and gear off friends and family (or eBay), or where possible, build it yourself (it's cheaper if you use unguarded lumber from construction sites, where you live now, etc).

      --
      Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
    7. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by harryman100 · · Score: 1

      Currently in the UK, energy saving light bulbs are subsidised, I'm replacing all of the bulbs in our (student) house, with them.
      http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/ (no I don't work for them) are selling them for 99p at the moment.

      --
      .sigs are for losers
    8. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by rpjs · · Score: 1

      Dunno about that - here in the UK almost all compact fluorescents give similar coloured light to incadescent. The only time we had "cold" compacts was when we bought some ultra-ultra cheap ones at the local market.

      I'd certainly strongly recommend compact fluorescent bulbs - we've switched 100% to them and had a noticable reduction in our electricity bill.

    9. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by Keeper · · Score: 1

      The other downside is that they aren't dimmable. (well, most arn't)

      Not a huge deal for most people, but it is an issue if your light switches double as dimmers. Halogens are a good alternative if you're in that situation.

    10. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by jeremymiles · · Score: 1

      B&Q does "value" low energy bulbs for about 3 quid for 4. They are pretty good too.

      --
      GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    11. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by Bush+Pig · · Score: 1

      They cost more (I don't think it's 20x, but I can't remember for sure), but they also have a _much_ longer mean time between failure. They really are a money-saver.

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
    12. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by radish · · Score: 1

      I'd love to use them (I have a drawer full of unused flourescent bulbs) but they're useless for me - when I switch a light on I expect it to come on right away. Every one of these energy saving flourescent bulbs takes at least 10-20 minutes to reach decent brightness, and when first switched on it's amazingly dim.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    13. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by Eil · · Score: 1

      I've heard (or merely always assumed) that flourescent lights take a lot of energy to "ignite" when first turned on but their energy use afterward is far lower than incandescent bulbs. (Hence their popularity in stores, workshops, etc where the lights are turned on once and left on throughout the whole day.)

      Do CFBs do the same thing? I've googled before for an answer, but came up blank. Of course the packaging doesn't say much, their tests comparing incandescant and flourescent probably have both bulbs burning constantly, which would be the best-case scenario. Because of this uncertainty, I've been avoiding installing CFBs in places where the lights are likely to be turned on and off many times per day (hallways, basement, etc) in my home.

      Can anyone shine some light (*smack*) on this issue?

    14. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I couldn't agree more. My personal experience with these has been great. I have been replacing bulbs as they burn out with flourescents. So far (about 20 bulbs replaced) I have seen a reduction in my electric bill from $140 a month to $100 a month (28%).

      I have two worklights over my electronic bench. With incandescents, I couldn't even touch the metal reflectors to reposition them. With the flourescents, they are cool to the touch. I actually find the spectrum of flourescents easier on the eyes for close work like soldering.

    15. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by pthisis · · Score: 1
      I've heard (or merely always assumed) that flourescent lights take a lot of energy to "ignite" when first turned on but their energy use afterward is far lower than incandescent bulbs

      This is a common belief, but in reality while they do use more power to turn on it's not very much more--only equivalent to a few seconds of the light being on.

      See, for instance, http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infelectrical/i nflightsoff.shtm:

      When you turn on a fluorescent light bulb (correctly called a "lamp"), there is a very brief jump in current when the ballast charges the cathodes and causes the lamp to start. This inrush of current can be many times greater than the normal operating current of the lamp. However, the spike of current draw normally lasts no longer than 1/10th of a second, and draws the equivalent of about 5 seconds of normal operation.
      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    16. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by juan2074 · · Score: 1

      Through the magic of Google, I found this information about CF lighting from my local service provider.

    17. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by swv3752 · · Score: 1

      Try the newer ones. I have replaced most of the ceiling lights with compact flourescents and there is a delay of about a second if that.

      --
      Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
    18. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by Bishop · · Score: 1

      The colour issue has been solved for a while now. The dirt cheap lights may look like crap but the Sylvania and GE are fine.

    19. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by Bishop · · Score: 1

      Switch to higher power lights. 15-17W instead of the 13W or the rather dim 11W lights.

    20. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with the Ikea bulbs is that they're slightly longer then regular incandescent bulbs, and so don't always fit nicely where the old bulbs were (some lampshades won't fit, bulbs stick up too far in floor lamps, that sort of thing). Also, subjectively, I thought they were noticeably dimmer than 60 watt bulbs, and not nearly as nice to look at.

    21. Re:Compact Fluorescent Bulbs by sakusha · · Score: 1

      Depends on how sensitive you are, I suppose. I used to work in color correction in photography and prepress, and I can instantly see if a room light is fluorescent or tungsten. I still find even the best fluorescents have poor color.

  7. And lose Internet access by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you all already have mobile phones, do you really need a landline?

    If you don't have landline voice service, you can't get dial-up. If the local telco is unwilling to unbundle the local loop, and you don't have landline voice service, you can't get DSL. If you don't watch a lot of TV, and the local cable company is unwilling to sell Internet access to those who aren't cable TV customers, then you can't get cable Internet access. So yes, you may need to keep landline voice service or give up Internet access altogether.

    1. Re:And lose Internet access by RingDev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not if your neighbor has a wireless hub ;)

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    2. Re:And lose Internet access by tepples · · Score: 2, Funny

      RingDev wrote: Not if your neighbor has a wireless hub ;)

      OP wrote: What tips do any of you have for (legally) saving on bills?

      What is considered "theft of service" in the United Kingdom?

    3. Re:And lose Internet access by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Living in a house with myself and two other Computer Science majors, we don't have a landline phone or cable TV (or any TVs for that matter...), but we do have excellent cable Internet, the cable company didn't have any problems letting us have it either.

    4. Re:And lose Internet access by tepples · · Score: 1

      we don't have a landline phone or cable TV (or any TVs for that matter...), but we do have excellent cable Internet

      Which provider, and which geographic area? A few cable companies charge 100 USD per month for high-speed Internet access but include basic cable TV in the price; other cable companies are more sensible.

    5. Re:And lose Internet access by simcop2387 · · Score: 1

      where i live it ends up about $30 cheaper to get basic cable+internet than just the internet service, works for me.

    6. Re:And lose Internet access by TERdON · · Score: 1

      Unless you offer the neighbour to pay half the internet bills (or fight malware once per month, or whatever), and he likes the proposal...

      --
      I have a really elegant proof for Fermat's last theorem. If this sig was only a bit longer...
    7. Re:And lose Internet access by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 1
      Cogeco, in southern Ontario.

      http://www.cogeco.ca/en/high-speed-internet-_o.htm l

      We have the 10 Mbit/1 Mbit package. We regularly see download speeds over a meg a second, and the cap is a soft cap, rarely enforced from what I understand.

    8. Re:And lose Internet access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Them signals were on my property damnit!

    9. Re:And lose Internet access by (trb001) · · Score: 1

      You joke, but this is a great cost saver to college kids, though I would advise you *ask* your neighbors if you can pitch in to cut their broadband cost and yours. My neighbors suck off of my excess bandwidth; I don't really care, but we're also good friends and they asked me about it first.

      --trb

    10. Re:And lose Internet access by szembek · · Score: 3, Informative
      If you don't watch a lot of TV, and the local cable company is unwilling to sell Internet access to those who aren't cable TV customers, then you can't get cable Internet access.

      if this happens you better ask for the rep's boss on the other end of the line because they will sell you just road runner and no tv. Many cable companies try to bully people into signing up for cable tv along with their roadrunner, but you don't have to have both. If it was actual policy to have buy both time warner would be in the same boat as microsoft with their bundling issues. However, they simply try to make people think that they need to buy tv to get internet, but when you ask around and talk to enough supervisors at your local cable company you will find that this is a lie.
      --
      nothing
    11. Re:And lose Internet access by mr_rattles · · Score: 1

      I don't watch much TV but I discovered that my cable company offers a $20/month discount if I get both cable TV and broadband through them. So I bought the very most basic cable service which was $10 and broadband. So now I get basic cable and broadband for $10 cheaper than I could have bought the broadband alone. If you don't watch much TV it's something to look into.

    12. Re:And lose Internet access by Rhys · · Score: 1

      Actually I had no problem getting flat cable internet, no TV attached with insightbb in central IL. And their uptime/service has been better than SBC's DSL which I was on (course I was on campus at the time so cable was right out for any performance).

      --
      Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
    13. Re:And lose Internet access by mjpaci · · Score: 1

      Where I live just north of Boston, Comcast charges ~ $60/mo for high-speed broadband unbundled. With basic cable, the total price drops to $54. My company will pay for the broadband, but not for the cable TV, so I go with the $60/mo option. Otherwise I'd only get reimbursed ~ $48 for the bradband and pay $6 our of pocket for CATV - a service I don't watch since I have DirecTV.

    14. Re:And lose Internet access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Hey, thanks again for letting us use your service.

    15. Re:And lose Internet access by tepples · · Score: 1

      Unless you offer the neighbour to pay half the internet bills (or fight malware once per month, or whatever), and he likes the proposal...

      Unless your neighbour's ISP's terms of service prohibit such sharing behaviour...

    16. Re:And lose Internet access by Raptor+CK · · Score: 1

      RingDev wouldn't know. He misspelled "neighbour."

      --
      Raptor
      "Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
    17. Re:And lose Internet access by jrockway · · Score: 1

      My ISP encourages me to share my connection. They'll even bill the other person for me and give them a free e-mail account.

      Also, I don't have local phone service or cable TV and can still get a high speed 'net connection.

      --
      My other car is first.
  8. Conservation begins at home by stevew · · Score: 1

    I would second the bit about turn the computers on ONLY when you need them. Wear COATS in the house, and keep the temperature on the furnace so you don't use so much gas. Limit the time in the shower so you keep the water heating bill down.

    All this takes cooperation and discipline!

    Good luck.

    --
    Have you compiled your kernel today??
  9. turn the heat down every night by humuhumunukunukuapu' · · Score: 3, Informative

    and every day when you leave. better yet, get an electonic thermostat if you can, and program it. turn out lights when you are not in the room. don't run water needlessly. if you aren't actually using your computer at night (uploading, compiling, serving, whatever), let the computer go to sleep or turn it off.

    --
    i saw the baby, and the baby looked at me
    1. Re:turn the heat down every night by Keeper · · Score: 1

      You can make a HUGE difference in your heating bill by being more "frugal" with the heat. I cut my bill from $150 to $85 by letting the house get colder during the day, turning on the heat later and turning it off sooner. As my place is heated by electricity, I can have each room heated at different times. Turning off the heat in rooms I don't use also helped, as does keeping all of the doors between "zones" closed.

      The hallway downstairs ends up being a bit chilly but I don't exactly spend a lot of time there ...

      An interesting side effect of this is that it helps you "keep" your schedule; if you've got to get up to turn the thermostat back up, you might as well just go to bed ...

      If you have flextime, you can also change your work schedule so that you spend more of your after dark hours at work (free heat! :)).

      It all seems a bit excessive, but it's worth saving $250/year.

    2. Re:turn the heat down every night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Best advice I can give is to put the most expensive bills in one of your roomate's names. That way when one roommate doesn't pay their bill, youre not stuck with it.

    3. Re:turn the heat down every night by barawn · · Score: 1

      get an electonic thermostat if you can

      Get an electronic thermostat, period.

      They're cheap - in the US, they're about $20. You'll make that back in one winter month.

      Also, it's not like you can't replace the old thermostat when you leave, and even if you didn't - what, the landlord is going to complain that you improved the place?

      Older manual thermostats typically have a decent hysteresis time - they maintain temperature within 3 degrees. Electronic thermostats are much, much more accurate, and typically maintain temperature within a degree, or even half a degree. This alone can save quite a bit of money, and the house will be more comfortable as well.

      The programmable ones that can lower and raise the temperature automatically are incredible money savers as well, but even if you have some weird objection to that, replace the old thermostats anyway.

  10. Stop-and-go (hard) driving by tepples · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would second the bit about turn the computers on ONLY when you need them.

    Doesn't starting and stopping the hard drives cause more wear and tear on the motor and bearings?

    1. Re:Stop-and-go (hard) driving by FruitCak · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is a common misconception. Modern consumer hard drives are designed for lots of starting and stopping. Where you will actually wear them out is leaving them spun up all the time. You'll normally wear a drive out in (a very rough as it depends on manufacturer) two thirds the time using it in a permenatly spun up server type pattern as apposed to the standard start/stop desktop pattern.

      There is a reason server rated hard drives cost more and it's not just because they spin faster.

      --
      I'm me. I think.
    2. Re:Stop-and-go (hard) driving by badfish99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Stuff intended to be bought for commercial use is always more expensive to buy. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's any more expensive to manufacture.

  11. Plastic on the windows by thefirelane · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the winter months, they sell a clear plastic sheet you can tape along the rim of the inside windowsill. It is amazingly effective at preventing heat loss. Use that.

    1. Re:Plastic on the windows by mariox19 · · Score: 1

      Just to second this motion, from personal experience I've learned that this is one of the best things you can do to keep the heating costs down. In an apartment I had where we used to hang out in the living room a lot, and there was no door to the living room, we draped plastic sheeting over the archway to the room. We were able to keep the heat comfortable in that room without letting it escape to other parts of the house.

      I think it is really depressing to have to wear a coat in the house. Sweaters maybe, but coats no.

      Lastly, don't fall into the trap of turning the heat off at night. Turn it down. If you turn it off, you'll waste more heat trying to heat up an icy cold house each day.

      --

      quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

    2. Re:Plastic on the windows by amliebsch · · Score: 1

      Turn it down. If you turn it off, you'll waste more heat trying to heat up an icy cold house each day.That seems unlikely. Assuming that the rate of heat loss from air leaks is roughly constant, and that the heat loss from conduction and radiation is proportional to the temperature differential, I don't see how you'd be worse off reheating a cold house (overcoming those losses for a brief time, and adding additional heat) as opposed to overcoming those losses all night, then adding less additional heat in the morning. The losses are the big energy sinks.

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    3. Re:Plastic on the windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny



      we draped plastic sheeting over the archway to the room.

      Classy. Did you have a large wooden wire spool as a coffee table too?


  12. My Tips: by zerocool^ · · Score: 1, Troll


    1.) Keep the computers off. I mean, wtf. I turn mine off when I go to sleep, cause I don't want to hear it. And that's even watercooled and very quiet - I just don't want to hear it. Plus it costs money. Are you even home that often? What's your computer even doing, really? If it's that bad, find an old laptop with a dead battery and make it the apartment server so you can leave it downloading your new Lost episodes or whatever. Need space? USB HDD. Laptops use less power. Also, encourage everyone to get an LCD. Nothing like a 19" TV-style computer monitor to use electricity all the time. LCD's pay for themselves in about a year or less these days.

    2.) Turn the lights off when not home or not using the apartment.

    3.) In the winter, keep the thermostat (or whatever that thing's called in the UK) set lower, so the heat kicks on less. Use blankets, or wear a sweater. I have an afghan that my aunt made me; I commonly curl up on the couch with it to play some Dragon Quest VIII, or read a book.

    4.) In the summer, keep the AC temp up a little, and use a good old fashioned box fan, or open a window. I don't know your climate so this may be less practical. It works great in the Appalachian mountains in western Virginia; I don't remember it working so well when I lived in Memphis TN, which is hot and humid all summer. Anyway, box fan = more efficient than hugeass compressor.

    5.) Set your refridgerator on "saves energy" rather than "reduces exterior moisture". I'd much rather have the exterior moisture; but then, it's hardly ever above 20% humidity in the winter here.

    That's about it. Try not to own anything like a 5 foot iguana (thanks, wife) that constantly needs a full spectrum bulb, a black-lite bulb, a ceramic bulb, a water fountain, 2 heated fake rocks, and a nuculear processing plant to keep it happy.

    ~Will

    --
    sig?
    1. Re:My Tips: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Judging by your handle, I was expecting at least a few of the following:

      • Spray paint your keyboard, it increases the resistance and therefore decreases the amount of power used.
      • Switch back to a 28.8bps modem (not kbps).
      • Do not turn up the heat, buy more jolt cola instead (the shaking will keep you warm).
      • Turn off the 15 foot, 3d display of your system activity and delete all unecessary garbage files.

      And if those fail, you could always crash at Nikon's place.

    2. Re:My Tips: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Dude, I bought one of those "Kill-a-Watt" power measuring devices. I measured all my CRTs and several LCDs.

      The LCDs do not pay for themselves in a year. Not even if you live somewhere where you have to run the air conditioner year round, and you pay for every watt twice, once to use and once to cool it.

      The max savings you can approach, presuming all the above, is about $25/year. The price difference between a CRT and an LCD is way more than that.

      Remember, just because it's high-tech, doesn't mean it's a good idea !

    3. Re:My Tips: by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

      Brit's don't tend to use AC at home. They tend to wear awful short sleeved shirts, shorts, sandles, and optional sun burn. They'll also swelter away, whilst crying out how wonderfully warm the weather is, whilst drinking piping hot tea.

      Quite why - I find the weather horrible, and spend as much time hiding inside in the shade (and the nude), with as many fans going as possible.

    4. Re:My Tips: by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      In the summer, keep the AC temp up a little, and use a good old fashioned box fan, or open a window. I don't know your climate so this may be less practical.

      This is the UK; domestic air conditioning is virtually unknown. We don't normally get very many days in a year where the thermometer gets far above 25, and by jingo we're going to appreciate them when they do turn up!

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    5. Re:My Tips: by zerocool^ · · Score: 1


      Has it been 3 months already? It's like clockwork, the people making fun of my username.

      You're way not origional.

      --
      sig?
  13. Easy tips by itwerx · · Score: 1

    We'll presume you're savvy enough to enable the various power saving options on your machines (remember to also turn your monitors off completely when not in use) so we'll focus on the other easy item - heating! Crank that thermostat down to the 50's and stock up on blankets and sweaters!
          Turn your hot water heat setting as cool as you are comfortable with. (Experiment a bit so you don't end up shorting the poor SOB who's last into the shower. :)
          Also, since you've probably got surge protectors on everything, make use of that "master power switch" to cut power to all those non-computing vampire appliances that never truly turn off (TV, DVD, CD, VCR, microwave etc).
          Finally, even though it's not your place and you can't make changes, check all the door and window seals and if any of them are leaky lean on the landlord to get them fixed.
          Carpool...

    1. Re:Easy tips by l3prador · · Score: 1

      Turn your hot water heat setting as cool as you are comfortable with. (Experiment a bit so you don't end up shorting the poor SOB who's last into the shower. :)

      Actually, that's a pretty interesting idea... Has anyone released a water heater with a thermostat and some way to monitor its status--current reserve, temperature?

    2. Re:Easy tips by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      They have hot water heaters that heat it as it flows now. As long as now is the last 30 years or more... Anyway, pretty much cuts out the need for any complicated control equipment.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    3. Re:Easy tips by jqpublic13 · · Score: 1

      Other people have mentioned excellent tips like fluorescent bulbs (instead of incandescents), LCDs (instead of CRTs), and using a cell phone (instead of a landline). Now that many wireless provides are offering high-speed data packages, I've started pricing out an unlimited data package to go with my cell phone. For about $90 (U.S.) per month, I can use my cellphone and have high-speed access almost anywhere in the country. I'm not sure what the pricing plans are like in the UK where you are, but it's something to think about.

      Before turning your thermostat down to far, read your lease, or check with your landlord. In all of the apartments I've rented, I've been required to keep my thermostat set above a minimum temperature to avoid the pipes freezing. I live in Michigan (about the 45 parallel), this is a real concern during the winter.

      I've learned to set my thermostat to briefly warm my apartment from 6am to 7am (when I'm up in the morning showering and getting ready for work), and again from 5pm to 10pm. The apartment is naturally warmer during the daylight hours, and will keep most of its residual heat until I've fallen asleep at night. Have the furnace on for only 1/4 of the day has noticeable cut down on my heating bills, and there's nothing like curling up under a warm blanket (or a warm girlfriend).

      --
      Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat.
  14. You could also get a more efficient computer. by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Instead of using some kind of monster 500+ watt system, you could get a laptop or an Epia or a Mac Mini or this AMD Geode-based desktop* or some other low-power system. Even underclocking and using power management on your current PC can help, too, and switching from CRT to LCD monitor helps a lot.

    *which, by the way, is cheaper (~$200) at my local Fry's for some reason

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    1. Re:You could also get a more efficient computer. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or any kind of laptop. I have abandoned desktops entirely for personal use, and just have a PowerBook (bought new, my main machine) and a ThinkPad (cheap, from eBay, for playing and testing cross-platform code). Between the two of them, they use less power than my old desktop did - and probably less than just the monitor.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:You could also get a more efficient computer. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      That's the first thing I said.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:You could also get a more efficient computer. by pthisis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Having your system properly power-save when not in use is also a big win (make sure it spins down the drives and fans), as is getting a rational graphics card.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    4. Re:You could also get a more efficient computer. by Grab · · Score: 1

      Don't buy a more efficient laptop instead of a desktop if it'll save you £20 in electricity over the year but cost you £500 extra to buy...

      Grab.

  15. Save! by pizza_milkshake · · Score: 3, Funny

    You can save on water and power by not showering regularly.... but I think that's a given.

    1. Re:Save! by microTodd · · Score: 1

      Although the "not showering" has been posted several times as a joke, there is a corollary to this that you might be able to use. Shower at the gym.

      Where I used to work we got free health club membership, so I got in the habit of using their shower every day after working out, and I never really showered at home.

      Or perhaps you joined a gym anyways. In that case, you can earn a tiny bit back of your membership fee by using their shower instead of yours (after you work out, of course. I'm not condoning going to the gym just to take a shower).

      --
      "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
  16. General by cmarks03 · · Score: 1

    Don't use the A/C and wear a coat; use low power light bulbs (or get those flourescent ones that cost more but use less energy), get used to a not as hot shower, and since you'll be in a house, buy your beer (not sure if it has a different name across the pond) by the keg instead of cases/at the pub. As someone else said, don't get a land-line phone if you all have cell phones. Basic internet access if you're gonna be on campus a lot (I only have a 1.5Mbps connection at my place and I don't even notice it because I'm on campus at least 12 hours a day).

    Lower power computers too. Use laptops or desktops with good power settings (Pentium M's speedstep technology, Athlon 64's Cool and Quiet, etc.).

    Also, buy generic food and stuff like that. I personally prefer Kroger (the supermarket I shop at) brand to some name brands.

    --
    Peace, Chris
    1. Re:General by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      Or lose the cell phones, and get one land line.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    2. Re:General by cmarks03 · · Score: 1

      I just thought about this one too. Not sure if it's the same across the pond, but I've heard that utilities charge you less for their service in the middle of the night, etc. Not sure how they measure that or if it's true, or if it's just something that my parents made up, but it can't hurt to do stuff in the middle of the night (or put stuff on a timer).

      Chris

      --
      Peace, Chris
    3. Re:General by jaseparlo · · Score: 1

      buy your beer (not sure if it has a different name across the pond)

      Nope pretty sure it's called beer in most places :)

      --
      All available data suggest that regardless of any of this, the sun will still come up tomorrow.
    4. Re:General by schlumpf_louise · · Score: 1
      Before I posted I was looking at the power company sites and they actually have something called "economy 7", from the website:

      "Obviously with Economy 7 youll use more energy during the night than the day, so you will save money. However, you need to be using roughly 20% of your energy consumption at night to be making a saving. And when they say night, they really mean night - the cheaper tariff usually starts around 1am and finishes around 8am (this can vary by supplier and region)"

      Only problem is that I am awake til silly o'clock (currently 7:10am in UK), two of the guys go to sleep 2am ish and the other is a morning person, now as much as I'd love to live up to gender stereotypes, I'm not going to spend my time doing their laundry :)

    5. Re:General by Ankh · · Score: 1

      When I was a student at Warwick, I lived on campus, but after finishing I lived in a student house in Coventry for a couple of years.

      We did switch to Economy 7 for the electric hot water heater, and I bought a timer so that it heated the water at night. We didn't have television or telephone, and spent a lot of our time on campus rather than at home.

      Others have said a lot of things that make sense, at least if you ignore the stuff about cooling the house / air conditioning, and about "small fridges" -- a regular US fridge is larger than a typical UK village :-) ... Putting sheets of thick polythene over the windows can make a huge difference, as can putting tin foil (shiny side out) on the windows, although it looks ugly. If you have radiators, get a bleed key from any DIY or plumbing shop, and let the air out so they are hot all the way to the top. You mention electric heat I think; that's pretty expensive. Check to see how much it'd cost to get connected to gas and get a gas fireplace, or, if you have a gas oven/hob, that gives off quite a bit of heat.

      My mother used to keep some old telephone books in the freezer, if it wasn't full of space, to reduce the fuel bill. Keep the coils at the back of the fridge free of dust (be careful not to damage them, though, and move the fridge gently, as sudden jerking movements can cause them to stop working).

      Do not try to save money on food at the expense of being unhealthy. Take a vitamin C (at least 600mg, and the ester form is best) and a multi-vitamin tablet each day.

      Find the low-cost auction houses and junk shops rather than spending money at expensive furniture places. But always decide, is this thing I am buying something that will last as long as I am a student, or longer, or will it fall apart tomorrow? Something cheap that falls apart can work out more expensive than something that lasts.

      You can save money on shoes by living barefoot, but that does get harder in the winter and it's not for everyone :-) but don't buy cheap shoes that fall apart after three months, as you end up spending more in the end (as Terry Pratchett pointed out...)

      You can save even more money by borrowing text-books fron the library or by checking to see if the student union or the university bookstore makes used books available. For many courses you may find you don't need the books they say you need, but if the lecturer reads out loud each week from a book he wrote, you obviously need to read it very carefully, even if you don't agree with what it says :-)

      Find a low-cost photocopier, or buy a cheap scanner yourself, and copy chapters you need for your own use. Yes, it's legal, although it can wreck cheap bindings.

      Your university library might have a subscription to something like O'Reilly Safari, which has a lot of online text-books you can read online. This often works by IP; since you have computers, maye you're studying CS, in which case you might be able to get a machine colocated, or to be able to run a proxy somewhere, so you can be at home and still access online journals and books from a Campus IP address. I do this sometimes at MIT, but I'm on the staff rather than a student, and of course have the necessary permission :-)

      If you're not from the UK, and are moving there to study, note that you probably won't need a car. You may, owever, need a student bus pass.

      If your landlord is willing to chip in, solar panels on the roof can reduce hot water bills in the summer, and might even help with heating in the winter, believe it or not. Our landlord installed central heating, because he was planning on selling the house after we left.

      Not sure there's much more to say that other students won't help with, so final thing is to befriend some older students and see what they do to save money!

      Good luck -- and have fun :-) :-)

      --
      Live barefoot!
      free engravings/woodcuts
    6. Re:General by swv3752 · · Score: 1

      On clothing and shoes, it does cost less in the long run to buy quality stuff. One should have at least two pairs of shoes. By swapping them every day, they will last like three times as long in total hours. Shop at sales. The department stores usualy have 50% off or greater a couple of times a year. Good quality stuff can be had for cheaper than the cheap crap at Walmart.

      --
      Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
  17. 12:00, 12:00... by tepples · · Score: 1

    make use of that "master power switch" to cut power to all those non-computing vampire appliances that never truly turn off (TV, DVD, CD, VCR, microwave etc).

    And endure the lengthy channel search and clock setup every day as the TV and VCR lose their mains-backed memories? (Or is it different in PAL territories?)

    1. Re:12:00, 12:00... by itwerx · · Score: 1

      ...as the TV and VCR lose their mains-backed memories?

      Many models have an onboard battery or capacitor (NVRAM?) that keeps that info for hours/days.

    2. Re:12:00, 12:00... by tepples · · Score: 1

      Many models have an onboard battery or capacitor (NVRAM?) that keeps [clock and channel settings] for hours/days.

      Low-end models are less likely to, and guess what the cash-starved OP would likely buy.

  18. My old roommate the scammer. by jlseagull · · Score: 3, Funny

    I once was a housemate with a guy that got kicked out of a fraternity for being too drunk and rowdy. He had stolen a 1968 vintage kegerator from a carnival, and the thing sucked like 1200 watts or more, and ran continuously with no thermostat. One day, he came home with a keg of Stroh's that he had bought for $20 on special. He came face to face with the resolution that it would cost him more in electricity to cool the beer with the antique device than it cost to buy the keg.

    Late that night, I found him outside dressed in all black, carrying a trenching shovel and a long extension cord toward our neighbors' house...

    --
    'Be always mindful, even when ditch-digging.' --D. T. Suzuki
  19. food by joebebel · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you have a nice gas cooktop and some cooking skills you can make a lot at home. Uni cafeteria can be a huge money drain if you're eating 3 meals a day. For 4 people, you could probably save 50 pounds a month if everyone chips in and does some food work. Nothing fancy, but stay away from prepackaged food also, it's just as expensive and not healthy either.

    1. Re:food by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

      Or, if you've got any sense, agree to do all the cooking, on the proviso that everyone else does the other cleaning duties, and that they won't get food until everything you need to cook is clean. ;)

    2. Re:food by Bazman · · Score: 1

      Good idea: make a lot, and make lots of it, then put some in the freezer. Then you're economising on scale (buy bulk veggies and dead animals) and your freezer isnt sitting empty.

  20. Learn to cook by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Frankly, that one will save you more than most of the rest. There are a wide variety of not bad foods that can be made in semi-bulk (so you only have to cook new every couple of days), that can be dressed differently at the table for varied meals. It's how I survived grad school.

    Follow that one by shoping for clothes at the local version of Goodwill, turn down the heat, plug the drafts, and unplug appliances not in use. Consider adding an insulating blanket to your hot water heater, if it's not an instant-on type.

    And, of course, don't do anything that makes holes in walls. Those are pricey to fix and tend to make landlords a bit touchy. The same comment applies to carpets.

    --
    the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
    1. Re:Learn to cook by Keeper · · Score: 1

      Follow that one by shoping for clothes at the local version of Goodwill, turn down the heat, plug the drafts, and unplug appliances not in use. Consider adding an insulating blanket to your hot water heater, if it's not an instant-on type.

      Doing this actually voids the warranty on most water heaters. You'd be better off inserting a foam insulation pad between the water heater and the floor -- most of the heat lost gets away through the ground.

    2. Re:Learn to cook by VolciMaster · · Score: 1
      Doing this actually voids the warranty on most water heaters.

      I've never heard if this voiding a warranty. In many states, the local energy companies will supply you with some starter insulation, including for your water heaters.

      Most (if not all) water heater work is not done under warranty anyway, so even if it does void the warranty, by the time you're adding the blanket it's not under warranty any more.

    3. Re:Learn to cook by Keeper · · Score: 1

      Every time I'm walking through a house with a home inspector, they've noted that the insulation voids the waranty on the water heater. Personally, I don't give a crap, but ... :)

    4. Re:Learn to cook by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

      have to second this instead of using my mod points, it was during my starving-poor-student years that i learnt to cook, once i realised that a weeks worth of veg at the market cost less than just one pub lunch i was hooked. i also learnt that a gigantic pot of stew lasts a few days and is great for snack purposes during those all night coding sessions.

      and while we're at it, beer, it costs a lot, a box of breakfast cerial and a supply of milk not only feeds you for a couple of weeks but costs less than two pints of beer.

      --
      If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
    5. Re:Learn to cook by VolciMaster · · Score: 1

      There's a disclaimer available here (pdf) from American Water Heater about what they think of the insulating blankets.

  21. Build your own house. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1, Offtopic
    Build house with. . .

    1. Insulation. Lots and lots of insulation. Insulation is not sexy, but if you make very thick walls, like three feet thick, and spray in the fiberglass-pink, as well as use tin-foil to reflect infared back into the home. . , you can basically heat a home with minimal effort. A wood stove, or a heat from a compost heap set downhill from the house with circulating pipes to carry heat to the floors, etc., plus use of solar heat collection. . . Kill your heating bills. There are lots of clever ways to heat a place other than the conventional, super-wasteful methods we use today.

    2. Build somewhere you can sink your own well. Run the pump with an electric motor driven from a solar panel. Keep a huge water storage tank buried next to your house. Never pay the water company ever again.

    3. Solar collectors for power. Get off the grid altogether! Spend $10,000 on good panels, (which can collect even in low-light conditions), and batteries and all the wiring, etc., and you needn't pay another electricity bill ever again.

    What's left?

    4. Cancel your cable/satellite subscription. TV is for losers. Period. TV is a waste of time and money and brain cells. Simple.

    5. Phone bills. . ? This is the only thing I'd keep. I like communication.

    6. Food. Food is cheep now. Very cheep. When fuel costs continue to rise, trucking and transport costs will also rise. The cost of goods will have to go up. Bush's fucked up reality means the poor will starve. So buy lots and lots of cans and preserved food stuffs now. The depression is near. Be prepared. You think your food bills are high now? Hm.


    -FL

    1. Re:Build your own house. by hazem · · Score: 1

      3. Solar collectors for power. Get off the grid altogether! Spend $10,000 on good panels, (which can collect even in low-light conditions), and batteries and all the wiring, etc., and you needn't pay another electricity bill ever again.

      For the last 10 years, I've lived in a few different apartments and my electricity bill has not often been above 50, and often below. With that as an average cost, that $10,000 is about 16 years of power. Would that equipment last that long without replacement?

      While I like the idea of being independent of the power company, I'm not sure it pays off that well at that price.

    2. Re:Build your own house. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TV is for losers. Period. TV is a waste of time and money and brain cells. Simple.

      Unless you live outside DSL range.

    3. Re:Build your own house. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
      For the last 10 years, I've lived in a few different apartments and my electricity bill has not often been above 50, and often below.

      Me too, for about 10 years. (Though my power bills, even shared among room-mates, have been higher than that. I think the age of the building figures into the equation.)

      Anyway, if you want to start a family and live in a proper house, those costs suddenly become something to consider. My electricity bill for 2006, barring changes to global energy prices, is going to be about $2500. --It's an old rented house with poor insulation and electric heating. Until now I was a low-rent bachelor, but life shifts around and suddenly you need more space and things can quickly grow expensive. I am very much looking forward to building my own home. No rolling black-outs and huge energy bills for me, thank-you.


      -FL

    4. Re:Build your own house. by zogger · · Score: 1

      In the US now they have some significant tax breaks (credits) for installing active solar systems, both solar hot water and for solar PV electricity. And some states have additional tax credits. You can chop the cost down considerably that way. It's your tax money and they let you keep it for something both practical and geeky cool.

    5. Re:Build your own house. by bored_engineer · · Score: 1

      Yes. Although his estimate of $10,000 is a bit low, unless you're really trying to skimp on the electricity you use. If you look here, you'll see that manufacturers carry a typical warranty of 25 years. A warranty of such length implies a very long life. Experience confirms the long life of solar panels.

      ROI for a solar system varies from less than 7 years in very sunny places to more than 30 years in northern climes (like Alaska). There are a number of factors that can affect this.

      cheers.

    6. Re:Build your own house. by bored_engineer · · Score: 1
      Build house with. . .
      Given that they are students, they may be busy for a year or two.

      1. Insulation...very thick walls, like three feet thick, and spray in the fiberglass-pink...
      I think that maybe you want to rethink some of this statement? The pink fiberglass is laid in, the stuff you spray in is cellulose. When have you built walls that are three feet thick? (Some folks are building fairly thick walls with hay bales, but this is a method that isn't common and doesn't mesh with the rest of your statement so we'll ignore it.) Do you know what materials cost would be for a place with walls this thick? Have you considered that the gains would be minimal over 8" or 10" thick walls?

      2. Build somewhere you can sink your own well.
      I believe that they are going to University. This may not be practical to him at the moment.

      3. Solar collectors for power...Spend $10,000 on good panels, (which can collect even in low-light conditions)
      $10,000? maybe. If you're frugal and your needs are modest. What makes you think that solar panels can do any significant collection in low-light conditions? I would love to hear about the solar panel that offers any real utility on a cloudy day.

      As for the rest...you're funny! cheers!
    7. Re:Build your own house. by yoprst · · Score: 1
      TV is a waste of time and money and brain cells.

      At least, TV has courtesy not to say the same about Slashdot.

    8. Re:Build your own house. by rich_r · · Score: 1
      3. Solar collectors for power...Spend $10,000 on good panels, (which can collect even in low-light conditions) $10,000? maybe. If you're frugal and your needs are modest. What makes you think that solar panels can do any significant collection in low-light conditions? I would love to hear about the solar panel that offers any real utility on a cloudy day.
      Not as silly as it sounds- capital grants are avaliable for this in the uk, to the tune of 50% of the install price. (a local vendor's info)
    9. Re:Build your own house. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1

      I think that maybe you want to rethink some of this statement? The pink fiberglass is laid in, the stuff you spray in is cellulose. When have you built walls that are three feet thick? (Some folks are building fairly thick walls with hay bales, but this is a method that isn't common and doesn't mesh with the rest of your statement so we'll ignore it.) Do you know what materials cost would be for a place with walls this thick? Have you considered that the gains would be minimal over 8" or 10" thick walls?

      Admittedly I am not a builder and I am still in learning-mode with regard to how to achieve my goals.

      I do, however, know that materials costs can be kept to a minimum if one is clever in how ends are achieved. Building on a lot which has a stand of trees; I'd hire a portable sawmill to cut the lumber into the beams I need. This, from general estimates I've heard, cuts the materials cost for lumber in half. Further, there are a couple of small lumber mills in my region. They discard a great deal of off-cut. (The rounded and bark-covered portion of the tree.) They either cut it up and sell it as fire wood, but in many cases it is simply dumped in the forest. If you are willing to take the time in cleaning it, much of this discard is of building grade quality, and it's entirely free (minus your time and the truck you'd have to borrow).

      There are also a number of old barns and houses which are torn down in my area from time to time which have perfectly good timber frames. Several people I know have rescued these old bones and have used them in their houses. Again, this is free wood of a very high quality.

      I am entirely aware of Straw Bale construction as a possibility, and it is very cheep. (About $2.00 - $2.50 per bale.) Unfortunately, it's very hard to use in my region because it rains frequently. You have to make sure you keep the bales very dry until you've finished construction, or funguses and molds can become a problem.

      Further, I figure a very thick wall, the way I'm picturing it, would basically increase materials cost on those walls by a bit less than double, since you're basically building two walls, an inner and an outer, and stuffing the space between with insulation. I don't really have a problem with this.

      The (master) builders I've talked to in this region describe putting three feet of insulation on a couple of rooftops and that the R-Value there is well over 50. It is suggested that the walls need only be half as thick, so perhaps I'm thinking irrationally with a mind for over-kill, but I DO believe that the gains over 8"-10" walls would be measurable.

      I believe that they are going to University. This may not be practical to him at the moment.

      I didn't mention another great way to cut costs; get the hell out of University. It is often, in a practical sense, a huge waste of time and money. For very few areas of study can you not learn what you need on your own or through apprenticeship and get plenty of good employment afterwards without a degree. Some of the most successful and intelligent people I've met haven't used their degrees, or never got one in the first place. Certification is needless. People in the community you are serving learn quickly enough who is skilled and who is not.

      $10,000? maybe. If you're frugal and your needs are modest. What makes you think that solar panels can do any significant collection in low-light conditions? I would love to hear about the solar panel that offers any real utility on a cloudy day.

      I've seen the panels in action; watched the needle on the meter stay a nice margin above zero when the sky was grey and heavy with cloud cover. --Granted, the panels were only working at about %10 - 15% capacity as compared to days with direct sunlight, but that was still more power coming in than going out in this particular house. --I had the opportunity to care for an off-the-grid house over the course of several days. The house batteries, I was told, never drop

  22. Move to the US... by aquarian · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    ...where it's a lot cheaper to live, and you can make more money.

    1. Re:Move to the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He could just kill himself, which would be more pleasant and he wouldn't have any bills

  23. Seal it up by gerardrj · · Score: 4, Informative

    Landlords generally want the property to look good and clean to attract tenants, they don't spend a lot of time or energy sealing up a house.
    A few tubes of caulk to seal up small cracks and some stick-on weather stripping for windows and doors will go a long way toward keeping the temperature more stable. Also there are foam gaskets you can put behind the wall plates of switches and sockets to keep drafts out.

    Drapes open on cold days to get in the sun's heat. Closed on warm days to keep it out.

    Showers are a huge point of waste. A few dollars/pounds will get you a shower valve you screw in-line with the shower head. You can then reduce the water flow when you're not actually needing it and then turn it up again to rinse off. Showers generally cost you 3x, incoming water, heating water, waste water charge.

    If you have access to your water heater and the pipes coming from it, add insulation to them. A water heater wrap and some foam tube insulation will keep the water hotter for longer in the tank and the pipes to the shower.

    If you have a smaller shower room, hang your wrinkled clothes in there, it will help remove wrinkles and prevent you turning on the iron (ha ha, I know).

    Keep the fridge full. The more "stuff" in the fridge the more efficient it is. Air heats/cools quickly and escapes readily when the door is opened. Stuff in the fridge will help the temperature come back to cold quickly and reduce run-time. Also, keep the door closed as much as possible. Standing in front of the fridge with the door open searching for something to eat is a tremendous waste.

    Line-dry your clothes indoors instead of machine drying. On a breezy summer day indoors with open windows the evaporation will cool the air; in the winter the humidity will help make the air feel warmer at lower temperatures.

    When cooking, use lower gas settings on the cooker. High-heat spills a lot of heat past the pan in to the air. Medium-low heat will usually get the job done just as well with only a slight increase in pre-heat and cooking time.

    Find, and keep clean the filer for the central heat if it's forced air.

    Try to cook for the entire house at one time instead of each member cooking their own meals. Economies of scale and all; better to heat the kitchen up once for 20 minutes that 4-5 times 10 minutes each.

    Low-cost 1/2 Styrofoam panels can easily be cut to fit in to windows to block out cold nights, or to fit around the outside of a particularly lame fridge.

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    1. Re:Seal it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as the water heater goes, I actually turn mine off until 15 minutes before I need to shower. Then I get in & out, and turn it off again at the breaker. No need to keep that water hot all the time. Knocked a good chunk off my electricity bill.

    2. Re:Seal it up by boa13 · · Score: 1

      In between machine-drying and good-old unassisted line-drying, I have become quite fond of fan-assisted line-drying. Nothing fancy: just a classical electric fan (about 20 inches in diameter), rotating towards the clothes at power level 1 (out of 3), left on while I go to work.

      At about 40 W for 10 hours, this uses maybe one third the energy of a typical drying-machine run, and gets most of my clothes dry in one day (including fragile stuff that cannot go in a dryer), in an apartment that is otherwise rather tightly shut down during winter. Neat. :)

    3. Re:Seal it up by Inda · · Score: 1

      "Keep the fridge full. The more "stuff" in the fridge the more efficient it is. Air heats/cools quickly and escapes readily when the door is opened. Stuff in the fridge will help the temperature come back to cold quickly and reduce run-time. Also, keep the door closed as much as possible. Standing in front of the fridge with the door open searching for something to eat is a tremendous waste."

      Can you back that 'fact' up?

      I'm picking on this one because a recent public service TV advert is telling UK residents the exact opposite. Keep less in your fridge in order to save energy is the message we are being told.

      oh, and cooking...

      1. Boil the kettle. Kettles are very good at boiling water (really Inda? No shit!)
      2. Pour boiling water into saucepan.

      3. COVER THE SAUCEPAN. You will save 80% of your power by covering the saucepan.

      4. Bring back to the boil on full power. Minimum power after that.
      5. Add food and cook.

      Being tell my missus that for 10 years now. One day she'll see the logic behind it.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    4. Re:Seal it up by gerardrj · · Score: 1

      Look at the extremes:

      A fridge set to 38F

      A fridge packed full of bottled water just enough space for some air flow
      VS
      A completely empty fridge

      opening the door

      empty: The only things "cold" in the empty fridge are air. the walls and shelves. Most, it not all, of the cold air will flow out of the fridge causing a temperature drop in the fridge to 65F. When you close the door the compressor unit turns on to chill the now warm air. Some heat from the air is dissipated in to the walls/shelves. The air recovers to 38F rather quickly and the compressor shuts of after only a short run time, say 4 minutes. The system runs frequently but for very short durations.

      full: you open the door and the cold air flows out of the fridge just as before. You close the door and the thermal mass of all that water will absorb the heat from the 65F air. The average temperature in the fridge will rise to about 39F. The compressor will stay off for quite some time. The water bottles also keep the air in the fridge from moving around as much so it can perform as insulation around the foods to keep them from warming. Runs infrequently but for longer durations. Eventually the temperature will rise to where the compressor start up. There's a lot of stuff in there so it takes 20 minutes to cool it back down. The system runs infrequently but for longer durations.

      You might think that frequent short run times would save energy, but that's not the case. Sealed evaporative/phase change cooling systems, such as those used in refrigeration units, are most efficient when they run all the time. Start-up takes a tremendous amount of energy and it takes a few minutes for the system to get to operating temperatures where the thermal split across the evaporator is greatest. During the first 30 seconds to minute of operation the system provides almost no cooling and can actually warm the fridge further.

      The "ideal" fridge would have a variable speed compressor/fan and run all the time, changing it's speed to pump out the heat the is inevitably leaking in to the fridge through the walls.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    5. Re:Seal it up by jeremymiles · · Score: 1
      My understanding, and I might be wrong, is that the problem with a full fridge is that the thermostat is not near the evaporator (which is the cold bit). A full fridge doesn't let air circulate, so the thermostat warms up. The compressor then works much harder to cool the fridge, but not in the bit where the thermostat is - it takes longer for the cold air to get there.

      --
      GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    6. Re:Seal it up by VolciMaster · · Score: 1
      Showers are a huge point of waste. A few dollars/pounds will get you a shower valve you screw in-line with the shower head. You can then reduce the water flow when you're not actually needing it and then turn it up again to rinse off. Showers generally cost you 3x, incoming water, heating water, waste water charge.

      True, you may end up 'paying' for it multiple times, but it's far more efficient than a bath, unless you plan on being in there a long time.

    7. Re:Seal it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excuse me, but didn't you just paraphrase (copy) all this from this book "10-Minute Energy-Saving Tips : 250 Easy Ways to Save Big Bucks on Heating and Cooling Bills"? Although one could consider some of the content common sense, your wording seems awfully similar and the tips seem all to be in there. Might I suggest attribution in the future? Here's an amazon link (shortened): http://xrl.us/jwkf

    8. Re:Seal it up by gerardrj · · Score: 1

      Never heard of the book, never read it. What I wrote was completely original based entirely on my own knowledge. I can't include attribution for something to which I have no reference.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    9. Re:Seal it up by gerardrj · · Score: 1

      You certainly don't want the fridge packed full to the point where there is no space for air flow. I can't imagine such a loading to be practicable though, as to get that much stuff in there you couldn't see it all.

      Convection is fairly strong and the colder air will generally find a way downward and the warmer air upward unless you intentionally try to partition the fridge with food wrap or tape.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    10. Re:Seal it up by jeremymiles · · Score: 1

      You've not seen my sister's fridge! (It does have the problem that it's too packed for airflow - the milk in the door is not cold.) JM

      --
      GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
  24. Learn to cook. by Pyromage · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's lots of good suggestions for other areas, so I'll add the odd one:

    If you haven't already, learn to cook. It's possible eat better, healthier, and cheaper than most of the restaurants you're probably eating at, if you know where to shop and what to make. Be willing to buy in bulk (things often cost half as much). Make a lot of meals based around rice (rice is cheap).

    Just consider this: where I'm at, I can eat filet mignon for the same price as a sandwich from Subway. Now just imagine if you start eating cheap food!

    Also, track your expenses in this area. Only when you know what you're spending can you optimize effectively.

    While you're at it, learn to bake. Cakes impress the girls.

    1. Re:Learn to cook. by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

      Also worth noting that whilst it has hippy overtones, brown rice tastes far nicer than white, and instantly adds a bit more flavour to a meal.

    2. Re:Learn to cook. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      he's a collage kid posting this to /.

      Do you really think he is going to worry about impressing girls?

  25. Re:Selling plasma by Nato_Uno · · Score: 1

    My brother sold plasma in college. They discovered some strange antibody of some kind in his bloodstream that was desirable for some reason so they started paying him extra to come in... >)

    --

    Have fun,

    Nathan 'Nato' Uno
    http://web.unos.net/
  26. cooperation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is the kind of thing that can test friendships.

    Several of these have been mentioned before:

    • Keep the heat down and wear sweaters. Turn down the heat when the house is vacant and when everyone is sleeping (buy blankets rather than gas)
    • Practice zone heating: don't heat rooms that aren't being used
    • Check for drafts around doors, windows, electrical outlets, etc. The landlord would probably approve weatherstripping repairs, or use rags or plastic as nonpermanent seals
    • Unplug tvs, entertainment centers and other devices that have "instant on" or "warmstart" circuitry when not in use
    • Get together and plan your kitchen stove use. When an oven or burner is brought to heat, you want everyone to do their cooking before it is shut off again.
    • Assuming you've got a washer and dryer, pool your laundry
    • Don't use the dishwasher
    • Plan your shower usage. Devise a contract for how many minutes of showering or bathing you will each do every week.
    • Turn off the computers when not in use. If you can't do that, use powersaver modes and at least turn off any peripherals.

    Controlling hot water use is often the hardest part.

    1. Re:cooperation by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      Assuming you've got a washer and dryer, pool your laundry. Don't use the dishwasher. Plan your shower usage. Devise a contract for how many minutes of showering or bathing you will each do every week.

      You forgot the most important thing:

      If its yellow, let it mellow.
      If its brown, flush it down.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    2. Re:cooperation by kcb93x · · Score: 1

      ...and as I heard last night at a party I was at...

      "..and if it's red, go to bed."

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:cooperation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      better: save the water from showering and use it to flush the toilet

    4. Re:cooperation by stebe · · Score: 1

      Dishwashers actually use a fraction of the water that it takes to clean the same number of dishes by hand. A dishwasher uses only 5-7 gallons of water in a load. To maximize your efficiency, avoid excessive pre-rinsing of dishes, and do not use the drying cycle.

    5. Re:cooperation by Deanasc · · Score: 1
      Don't use the dishwasher

      If he's paying for water this is bad advice. Even running a half load uses less water then washing the same in the sink. Water turning on for a minute even 6 times uses less water then washing by hand for 7 minutes. Plus it really is healthier, dishes are cleaner and most soaps are mild sterilants or bleaching agents. Skip the plate dry to save energy. Unless you're looking to quickly change a load. Most people who run their dish washer at night wake up to dry dishes without the extra expense of running that hot coil at the bottom.

      --
      I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
    6. Re:cooperation by Deanasc · · Score: 1

      That's not as flippant a comment as you make it sound. I believe the new Geary designed building at MIT is using a recycled water system to flush the toilets. They have to put up little signs so people aren't shocked to see yellow water already waiting for them in the bowl.

      --
      I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
    7. Re:cooperation by TClevenger · · Score: 1
      Skip the plate dry to save energy.

      If it's cold in the house, just prop the dishwasher door open a bit after the wash cycle to add a bit of heat and humidity to the room, whilst drying the dishes more quickly. If your water heater is at least 140 degrees F (and it should be), the heat dry setting is a waste.

  27. mercury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another downside: fluorescent bulbs contain mercury and should be disposed of as hazardous waste.

  28. Just went through this myself by Anonymous+Cowdog · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's what we did:

    * Cancel movie rental subscription (Netflix)
    * Get movies and some books from the library
    * Cancel old unused website costing a monthly fee
    * Scour credit card statements, found another forgotton hosting account, cancelled it
    * Called auto insurance company and raised deductible for collision to $1000
    * Bought a stovetop espresso maker so we don't need to buy good coffee by the cup now
    * Continued living with our old outdated computer monitor
    * No cable, no gaming accounts
    * No alchohol, no drugs, no lottery tickets
    * Pay things on time and avoid late fees
    * Remember if taxes take 50%, you have to earn $2 for each $1 you spend.
    * Stop buying stuff.
    * Get cheaper broadband plan
    * Cancel unused text messaging on wife's cell phone ($5/mo)
    * Cancel unused roaming plan ($5/mo)
    * Cancel unused Canada roaming addon ($3/mo)
    * Cancel unused "nights start at 7PM" addon on cell plan ($5/mo)
    * Ask nicely and get $10/mo unlimited cell data plan, including modem use (Sprint, Treo 650) instead of faster Cingular $40/mo+ plan
    * Refrain from getting car. Get exercise instead.

    Lots of little amounts, and some big ones. They add up.

    1. Re:Just went through this myself by mattwarden · · Score: 3, Funny

      As a college student myself, I was with you and nodding my head until...

      No alchohol, no drugs

      My guess is that the OP was asking for ways to save money so he could purchase more of these.

    2. Re:Just went through this myself by schlumpf_louise · · Score: 1
      No drugs.

      Alcohol is a a must have, but the boys have already started brewing their own :) I'm still too scared to try it tho...

    3. Re:Just went through this myself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when wasn't alcohol a drug?

      What a fucking stupid cunt. Go take your "no drug" attitude to the grave the next time you get a bacterial infection, you stupid piece of shit.

    4. Re:Just went through this myself by jwdeff · · Score: 1

      * Continued living with our old outdated computer monitor
      In the long run, you'll probably break even or save money with the power savings from an LCD monitor.

    5. Re:Just went through this myself by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

      After all that lot, how about this one?

      * Cancel unused life

      Yeah, money's important, but if you're not having any fun, and merely working to survive, what's the point?

    6. Re:Just went through this myself by cerberusss · · Score: 2, Funny
      * No alchohol, no drugs

      That's easy. I can stop any tome.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    7. Re:Just went through this myself by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      Time, that is.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    8. Re:Just went through this myself by myth24601 · · Score: 1

      In that case the OP could buy cheap beer. The Beast!

      http://www.milbestlight.com/home.aspx

      --
      No matter where you go, there you are.
    9. Re:Just went through this myself by Tweekster · · Score: 1

      * No cable, no gaming accounts * No alchohol, no drugs, no lottery tickets you must be joking? Most college students try to save money for exactly those expenses

      --
      The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
    10. Re:Just went through this myself by lamp540 · · Score: 0

      Assuming that you DO use drugs: buy a large quantity and split it between your friends don't do wake and bake. you'll use less if you wait a couple hours after waking up before getting high grow your own use a vaporizer, you won't destroy most of the THC by burning it saving money on alcohol: get some of those fake credit cards they send out for promotions and start a tab on it at a busy bar brew and distill your own liquor buy malt liquor saving money on cigarettes: roll your own or buy a tobacco injector to use with prerolled tubes go to bars where tobacco company reps give away free cigarettes

  29. "Living frugally without hardship" by loraksus · · Score: 4, Informative

    This fatwallet thread "Living frugally without hardship" is a great start.
    It is pretty long, but full of valuable information.

    --
    1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    1. Re:"Living frugally without hardship" by Dausha · · Score: 1

      Dude(ette?),

      You just cost me about 30 minutes of productivity looking at that link. I could have been doing work. My wife is a frugal freak, so I sent this on to her--she's minor league compared to some of these guys.

      We went to Vegas for our honeymoon. The first night we stayed in a local hotel, but problems led them to give us the stay for free--they also allowed 14-days free parking in their parking lot (near a major metropolitan airport). We flew for less than $300 round trip for both.

      Our rental car (10 days) cost us only $5. Because the hotel we were going to stay at in Vegas was booked, they sent us across the highway to their sister hotel--for free. Because I was looking haggard, the manager gave me $20 for cab fare--which was the only money we gambled while there. We proceeded to go on a car tour of the Southwest (including sky diving). :-)

      So, seeing the thread just made me salivate--and will send my wife into a surfing spree!

      --
      What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
    2. Re:"Living frugally without hardship" by loraksus · · Score: 1

      Haha
      If you're interested, check out the hot deals forum, you can spend hours on there quite easily and spend / save a fair bit of money too ;)
      Deal discussion is also an excellent place to go for financial advice, but that thread is probably the best single place on the net (that I've seen at least) for info on living cheaply.
      Of course, none of the hot deals work in Canada (ok, most don't) so I've been experiencing withdrawal symptoms since I moved up here :(

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    3. Re:"Living frugally without hardship" by Jaeger- · · Score: 1

      Yes, Fatwallet is my favorite site. Even above /. :)

      --
      E V E R Y T H I N G I W R I T E I S F A L S E
  30. Disconnect Gas and Electric... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) disconnect gas and electric
    2) cancel phone service and cable TV
    3) sell furniture that is not bolted down
    4) move into parents basement
    5) set up computers at will, plug in extra space heaters/AC as needed, steal your Dad's beer

  31. From one freezing climate to another by cgenman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Plastic over the windows. You can buy the really good kind or just use big cheap sheets. Either way works. Check the windows first to see if they are double-pane, though.

    Check around the edges of windows, especially in older buildings. Frequently, cracks will form around the edges where you can clearly feel cold leaking in. Get some silicone sealant from the local hardware, and close those holes.

    Put cloth underneath and around any doors that have any space. Taking the doors off and stapling them is ideal, but in a pinch you can use glue or staple the strips to the front and back.

    Compact Flourescent bulbs are a lot more energy efficient than regular ones, and last longer. And if you look around, there have been a few batches at dollar stores recently... can't beat more efficient, longer lasting, and cheaper.

    Turn off your monitors when not in use. This will save as much as shutting off your computer, and is less of a pain in the arse.

    Don't get a house phone. Get high speed 'net access, skype, and use cellphones. But keep the landlines away. While you're at it, halve your costs: go in for high-speed access with the people above or below you, and run your own cable. Just make a no-uploading rule or you'll find your pipe clogged in no time.

    No cable: get utorrent and download shows.

    Avoid even thinking about World of Warcraft.

    Have a parking space you're not using? Sublet it.

    No offence, but don't worry so much about the "legally" part. Everyone assumes you sublet despite what your lease says. Everyone assumes you will do things to change the apartment like paint it. People share network access all the time. It's just built in. If you screw things up, it gives them legal right to sue you, but otherwise it is just business as usual.

    Don't buy any furnature. Wait until the students are moving out, if you can, to pick some up for free. Of course, you'll probably be moving out then too, so I guess that plan works best for the rest of us.

    1. Re:From one freezing climate to another by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      "go in for high-speed access with the people above or below you, and run your own cable. Just make a no-uploading rule or you'll find your pipe clogged in no time.

      No cable: get utorrent and download shows."

      I think there's a contradiction there.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    2. Re:From one freezing climate to another by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Just make a no-uploading rule or you'll find your pipe clogged in no time.

      No cable: get utorrent and download shows.


      I gotta chime in with the other guy here. You're not only advocating being a pirate, but you're also advocating being a leech. What's next, selling copies of the stuff you download and stealing Wi-Fi access from a neighbor?

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    3. Re:From one freezing climate to another by cgenman · · Score: 1

      Sorry, should have said "no non-torrent p2p." Torrents are reasonally well behaved if you set limits, but the more lawless P2P world can really suck down an upstream.

      I have a hard time buying the whole "Stealing things they're broadcasting anyway" theory. Sure, the stations are not getting commercial revenue and that is a legitimate gripe, but that seems more of a problem of rating systems not keeping up with technology and broadcasters hesitant to embrace a new medium. Cable companies, who have enjoyed a highly profitable legal monopoly with zero competition and lowest customer satisfaction for years... They win a consolation prize of the world's tiniest violin.

      The dude is a college student. He's got basically no income. He should be a letch off society for a few years as he is making himself valuable to everybody. Once his earnings are up, he should pay for everything properly. I say this personally as a content creator: if the kid's living off of beans and ketchup while he figures out how to make the world a better place, he can pay later.

      Though yes, there is nothing worse in society than leeching torrents. Don't do it.

    4. Re:From one freezing climate to another by itscolduphere · · Score: 1

      I have a hard time buying the whole "Stealing things they're broadcasting anyway" theory. Sure, the stations are not getting commercial revenue and that is a legitimate gripe, but that seems more of a problem of rating systems not keeping up with technology and broadcasters hesitant to embrace a new medium.

      No, it isn't. Ratings have nothing to do with it, as the whole point of ratings is to determine how many eyeballs are seeing the commercials, not the show. Since every TV show I've ever grabbed a torrent of had the commercials removed, those downloads shouldn't add to the ratings...at least not much (as it is possible that you'll watch a broadcast in the future). And legal methods, such as the iTMS (where customers are paying to watch the show directly) are actually starting to affect ratings.

      Ratings are about revenue. If you are downloading torrents of the shows and never watching the commercials, and not purchasing the DVD when released, you are not contributing to the revenue stream, thus you should not be counted.

      About embracing a new revenue stream, that I can see. Imagine if networks would release their own torrents, at the same resolution or better, encoded professionally by the studio...with the commercials (the nationals, at least) intact. I'd have no problem downloading the extra 100MB of commercials to get a higher-quality recording. And when my laptop is across the room hooked up to the TV, I'd probably even end up watching them.

      Of course, this is all horribly off-topic. Downloading shows over having cable makes some amount of sense as a money-saver, despite the questionable legality. Though, depending on how much you value your time (and the local prices), you might actually be better off just getting basic cable. It'll probably run less than running four computers 24/7.

  32. Suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    What other saving tips, and frugal suggestions might you have for a house full of college students?

    Get a job.

  33. Wild sex orgies by linzeal · · Score: 1

    Save on heat but it is good to stock cheap munchies like 99 cent pretzel bags and swill beer or you can lose it in becoming a bed and breakfast. Asking for tips for making breakfast works when people crash in your pad is standard fare in my household if we don't know you. Bring over a few six packs or some nice wine and you get a free continental.

  34. Locate your meeters, then put a magnet inside wall by HornWumpus · · Score: 2, Funny
    A simple electromagnet powered by a household DC converter will stop a mechanical meeter from meetering.

    Too many gause and you will break the meeter. So add wraps to your electromagnet untill it just stops the meeter.

    Then hook the magnet up to a timer (so you will still use some electricity and so the meeter will be running when read).

    Viola you've just cut your utility bills without any of that tiresome conservation etc.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  35. One word by Pete+LaGrange · · Score: 1

    Fluorescent bulbs, well...two words.
    Changed every single one of them in August, cost about $50.
    All electric, dryer, stove, hot water and six computers, heat is oil.
    100 watt incandescent cost about $9 to run all month, 14 watt fluorescent
    costs about a buck and throws similar (if slightly off-color) light.
    Bill went from $325/mo to $160/mo (we leave a lot of lights on 24/7).
    Best money I spent last year and haven't changed a bulb yet.

    --
    loyalty above all, save honor
  36. House full of students? by TheLink · · Score: 1

    D'oh. This sounds as funny as that "ultra stable C++" ask slashdot... ;)

    Wouldn't that mean not needing that much heating? Will be just like those bunny rabbits providing heat (in more ways than one perhaps)?

    If you really need your computers on all the time and want to cut on bills, each of you should get a tent and set it up in your rooms. In winter put the computer in the tent and run Folding@Home or something similar for heating, that way you can live reasonably comfortably in the tent, and leave the central heating off or on low (if that's possible - I'm sure you'd still need hot running water for showers ;) ).

    If you're in England and not somewhere like Scotland, the weather isn't what I'd call harsh - I used to study in Manchester, and it was ok (drizzly and/or overcast most days though, except for exam season ;) ).

    Seriously though, I think that while bills are important considerations, you need to get other things right first and then the bill issue becomes more manageable. You get the other stuff wrong, and you might end up with half the household leaving without notice.

    Anyway some random thoughts:

    Set your priorities and just cut down on your expenses- beer, tobacco, "new mobile phone that you really don't need" and you'd probably have quite a bit to live on.

    I believe the meters are "self-read", so it might be a good idea to update the companies regularly, so that you don't end up with something really huge at an inconvenient point - not everyone in the household might be able to cope with paying that amount.

    Assuming not everyone is competent at managing their money, you may also wish to have a pool of money which everyone pays a fixed sum into each month, and any amount leftover is refunded at end of the lease period. Better pick someone you can trust for that ;).

    The idea is to not end up short of some huge amount "by surprise", and then have to go look for money and possibly end up neglecting your studies etc.

    Also, you may have to figure out whether things like certain meals/cooking are shared. "Eating out" in the UK isn't what I'd call cheap. But sharing say the evening meal and cooking AND the necessary grocery shopping would require a fair bit of compromises and cooperation. Might be rather difficult if you have a vegan and a "carnivore" in your household, or even a practising muslim/jew (halal/kosher food only).

    While in Manchester, a bunch of us used to share one meal and groceries, but one of us opted out of it in the end. Can't remember why. Maybe it was our cooking (we took turns though) ;).

    --
  37. Car culture by tepples · · Score: 1

    Refrain from getting car. Get exercise instead.

    So what do you do when an affordable apartment is 80 km away from employment? Or is this not the case in the UK?

    1. Re:Car culture by FinestLittleSpace · · Score: 1

      Go 80km in any direction in the UK and you've already passed through at least 2-3 towns!

    2. Re:Car culture by DjReagan · · Score: 1

      You'd be hard pressed finding somewhere 80km away from your work in the UK that wasn't a couple of towns away and in a different county. We aren't that big, you know - total land area is about 240,000 square km (A bit smaller than Oregon, according to the CIA world factbook)

      --
      "When I grow up, I want to be a weirdo"
    3. Re:Car culture by tepples · · Score: 1

      You'd be hard pressed finding somewhere 80km away from your work in the UK that wasn't a couple of towns away and in a different county.

      That's true in many parts of the United States as well. So now what should somebody without an automobile do if the only affordable real estate is "a couple of towns away and in a different county"?

    4. Re:Car culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      So what do you do when an affordable apartment is 80 km away from employment? Or is this not the case in the UK?

      This is pretty much not the case anywhere, unless you're too lazy to look.

    5. Re:Car culture by DjReagan · · Score: 1

      Find a better paying job that is closer to where you live.

      --
      "When I grow up, I want to be a weirdo"
  38. LED Flashlight by Graymalkin · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Think about replacing your entertainment appliances with a communal computer. A relatively low power PC hooked up to a decent LCD can play just about any sort of media type you can think of. It is also quite a bit more efficient than a bunch of individual devices in "sleep" mode sucking down 10Wh+. Turn off the sound system for such a computer when it isn't in use and place the system itself in sleep mode or hibernate or what have you when not in use.
    2. Convince your house mates that switching to LCDs in going to save everyone even though they're relatively expensive up front. A 19" CRT sucking down 100W will cost a fortune compared to the operational cost of a good LCD. The less power used means the less heat generated which leads to lower home cooling costs in hotter months.
    3. Turn the thermostat up in the summer and down in the winter. In the summer wear shorts and short sleeve shirts, sweaters and thicker pants in the winter. Grab some cheap solar shades to go on the outsides of south facing windows, they keep a good 70% of solar radiation from entering the window and require next to maintenance. Do what you can to seal up the windows in the winter time to keep cold air out and warm air in. There's lots of thermal seals for windows available that don't require permenant changes to the structure of the windows thus being renter friendly.
    4. Get a Watt meter. It's a little device you plug in between an appliance and the wall that can tell you the device's electrical load. Plug everything into one of these to figure out what is sucking down the most power when on and/or off. Grab some power strips or switch adapters for outlets to keep these power sinks from hiking up your electrical bill. You'd be surprised about how much power is used by appliances that look "off". Kitchens and living rooms are huge power sinks.
    5. Replace incandescent bulbs with CF ones. CF bulbs costs a bit more than incandescents but last quite a bit longer and use a fraction of the power to produce the same amount of light. You don't save up front with CFBs, you save months down the road when the power savings and long life have paid for the bulb several times over. CFBs are also getting cheaper so price is even less of an issue than it was just a few years ago. Make sure people in the house get into the habit of turning off lights in unoccupied rooms.
    6. Look into replacing a digital alarm clock with your cell phone. My cell wakes me up in the morning and has a clock that is always set. It works properly after an overnight power outtage.
    7. Cook for everyone at once and pick up some heat trapping storage bags (the sort used for camping and picnics) to keep food warm for latecomers. Try not to cook too much or else you're going to need to store that extra food for later...
    8. Get a small refrigerator and shop for only one or two days worth of meals. A smaller fridge is going to save on your electrical bill. Shopping on a smaller scale is a little less convenient than bulk shopping but can be done by a single person on the way home from work/school more easily than bulk shopping. It also means you tend to have fresher food and don't buy things you forget about that then go bad wasting the money.
    9. Agree on a beer everyone enjoys and buy kegs or mini kegs rather than cases with bottles. Kegs are cheaper than cases and can be reused.
    10. Recycle. I don't know about the UK but overhere in the Estats Unidos you can get a few bucks from every few pounds of aluminum and glass you recycle. This is nice after BYOB parties as you get a bunch of free change just by cleaning up and heading to a recycling center.
    11. Carpool and/or ride a bike. If you're not too far from work or school ride a bike. You save on gas and have better parking options. A good bike will make for a comfortable ride and you'll stay in shape even drinking a college portion of beer.
    12. Team up with your neighbors about high speed internet access. Split the bill between the households and share the bandw
    --
    I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    1. Re:LED Flashlight by cerberusss · · Score: 1
      Convince your house mates that switching to LCD

      This depends on how much you use the monitor. It may not be worthwile to replace the existing monitor.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    2. Re:LED Flashlight by jyda · · Score: 1
      7. Get a small refrigerator and shop for only one or two days worth of meals. A smaller fridge is going to save on your electrical bill. Shopping on a smaller scale is a little less convenient than bulk shopping but can be done by a single person on the way home from work/school more easily than bulk shopping. It also means you tend to have fresher food and don't buy things you forget about that then go bad wasting the money.

      Actually, I think bulk shopping is one of the best ways to cut down costs. One can easily save 30% of the cost of food this way, compared to buying everything in small quantities.
      --
      "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
    3. Re:LED Flashlight by SagSaw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Convince your house mates that switching to LCDs in going to save everyone even though they're relatively expensive up front. A 19" CRT sucking down 100W will cost a fortune compared to the operational cost of a good LCD. The less power used means the less heat generated which leads to lower home cooling costs in hotter months.

      I don't know about that. A LCD of similar size and resolution to my CRT would cost about $600. Let's even assume that by CRT draws about 200W (the label on the back says 1.7A/120V, but that's going to be worst case.). In my area, electricity costs $0.08 per kWh. The LCD would take 37,500 hours to pay for itself $600/($0.08/kWh)/0.2kW. At that rate, I would take over 4 years for the LCD to pay for itself, even if I leave my current monitor on 24/7/365. To me, the savings just aren't enough to make me rush out and buy an LCD. I might consider it when it comes time to replace this monitor.

      --
      Come test your mettle in the world of Alter Aeon!
    4. Re:LED Flashlight by Rhys · · Score: 1

      # Cook for everyone at once and pick up some heat trapping storage bags (the sort used for camping and picnics) to keep food warm for latecomers. Try not to cook too much or else you're going to need to store that extra food for later...


      I can't see this being more efficient. Do you really think that the stove outputs less than 1500 watts (over 5 minutes of zapping food to reheat) over the time needed to cook a meal? I'm pretty sure the stove would put off well more than that. Especially if you were cooking something like a croc-pot dish or a stew that simmers for a long time.
      --
      Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
    5. Re:LED Flashlight by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      Depending on the style of stove, cooking on it can be fairly inefficient. A lot of energy is wasted just on heating up the air around the stove. In the winter this may not be an issue. In the summer, the AC has to run longer to remove that much extra heat.

    6. Re:LED Flashlight by mr_rattles · · Score: 1

      I had my doubts about what you wrote here so I went out to Google and priced and looked up the power consumption of a 19" Sony Trinitron CRT versus a 19" ViewSonic LCD. The cheapest new Sony I found was $340 and had an active power consumption of 140 W. The cheapest new ViewSonic I found was $400 with an active power consumption of 50 W.

      At $0.08 per kWh running the Sony for one month straight without going to sleep it would cost me $8.33 per month to operate. Do the same for the ViewSonic and it would cost $2.98 per month. With a price difference of $60 and a price per month difference in energy used of $5.35 it would be just over 11 months before the LCD saved in energy the $60 it cost you for the purchase up front.

      If you used each for another three years before buying a different monitor you would have spent $300 on the Sony just to power it whereas you would have only spent $107 powering the ViewSonic. The $200 difference would pay for half of your next LCD. :)

      Now consider the space saved, the continued energy you save, the lesser weight in the LCD, and how frequently the typical person goes through new monitors/displays, I think the LCD is clearly worth the extra $60 up front and will save you in the end.

    7. Re:LED Flashlight by rzebram · · Score: 1

      Remember, the parent said he was a college student. I imagine it's somewhat cheaper to cook up ramen in bulk.

  39. Blue-flame heater efficiency by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

    100%. Really. Do tell.

    1. Re:Blue-flame heater efficiency by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      100% is slightly incorrect as it does provide some light. But almost all the energy is released as heat. And since it's vent-less, all that heat is released into your house.

      The things I don't like about them is that they are ugly, don't heat the entire house, and they still release their combustion by-products into your house. If you have a drafty house that may not be an issue. But if your house is newer, more tightly sealed, it's going to be burning the same oxygen you breath, and releasing the same combustion byproducts in the same air you breath.

      My preference is for a high quality condensing furnace. Looking around you should be able to find one about 97% efficient. They will cost more, but I think provide better comfort and you don't have to run gas lines all over your house to fuel the heaters.

  40. remember the first law by rcpitt · · Score: 5, Interesting
    You can change energy from one form to another but can't create or destroy it.

    If you MUST have 4 computers running - they will eat something like 500-800+ watts - so you need to use or get rid of that amount of energy. (note that CRTs use similar amounts - use LCDs!)

    Most refrigerators use something less than 500-800 watts to cool their interiors - but many (most) use motors to compress coolant and dump the heat out to cooling coils on the back (heating the surrounding room). Why not instead use a 'fridge that uses an absorption cycle (like the ones you find in a camper that use either electricity or gas to provide heat but don't use a motor) and run it off the heat of the computers?

    Note that you'll have to provide some dump for the heat - so you'll probably want to put the computers (and some part of the fridge) near an outside wall so you can dump heat outside (choose the side away from the sun) - use long monitor cables etc. to bring the video/keyboard/mouse connections to where you want them.

    In Summer - open the windows near the computers to let the heat out

    In Winter - put a fan there and blow the excess heat into the rest of the house.

    Of course you might want to run some copper tubing from the water supply near these heat sources to pre-heat the water prior to running it into the normal water heater too. You can also plumb them into solar panels on the roof in Summer (and even in Winter in some areas) to preheat water. A little bit of electronics might be necessary to ensure you don't overheat the water - I've almost burned my hand off the panels I have on the roof for my pool :)

    Lots of ways of (re)using the energy you take into the house before letting it out - and taking advantage of the energy that is freely available from the sun when it shines.

    --
    Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
    and didn't get it
    1. Re:remember the first law by Inda · · Score: 5, Funny

      "In Summer - open the windows near the computers to let the heat out"

      1. He's from the UK. We don't really get a summer here.
      2. Open the windows as apposed to what? Turning on the air conditioning? He's from the UK. We don't have air conditioning in our homes.

      "[take] advantage of the energy that is freely available from the sun when it shines"

      HE'S FROM THE UK!!!

      God bless The Queen!

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    2. Re:remember the first law by rcpitt · · Score: 1
      OK - I get the point - but then I'm from Vancouver where we've just finished something like 42 out of the past 45 days with rain :(

      --
      Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
      and didn't get it
  41. LCD's by Darth_brooks · · Score: 2, Informative

    Drop a few bills on an LCD monitor. New LCD's draw far less power than CRT monitors. This is especially true if you're using an old 14" clunker that doesn't do any sort of real power saving. Combine this with a VGA switch (or a KVM switch) to cut down on what you'll need to have plugged in.

    Find and eliminate "wall warts", those little black inverters / chargers that are constantly drawing anywhere from 4 to 15 watts. I'd suggest getting a cheap power strip (one that has a switch) and putting it on top of your desk, then taking plugging as many of the warts into that as possible. Phone charger, laptop brick, iPod Charger, PC speaker inverter, and anything you can plug in that has a remote control.

    When you're not using those items, turn off the strip. You can cut out anywhere from 20 to 80 watts of useless power. Multiply that by the hours you save (because hey, your PC speakers need to be sucking power when you're fast asleep...) and you can make a decent dent in your bill. (it's also a bit healthier for battery charged items to not be sucking power all the time.)

    Aside from that? Compact flourescent bulbs help, and not being a dumbass helps more. Don't heat anything with electricity if you can avoid it, don't leave lights on all the time, enable powersave features on the PC's when you can.

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
    1. Re:LCD's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No they don't use "FAR" less power. You'll save a whole 25$ a year or so (calculated using 150w for CRT (my 20" takes less), 50w for LCD (average), 9 cents/KWh which is our local rate, and 8h/day).

      Replacing it with a *GOOD* LCD will cost HUNDREDS of $ (the only thing I can stand is the dell ultrasharp) So count about 4 years per hundred $ you paid so it pays for itself. At 400$ for an average monitor, that's 16 years it'll take to pay itself, and I doubt I'll be using any of today's PC hardware in 16 years (i.e. it WON'T!). Even at 12h/day it'll still take 3 years/100$ you paid (12 years vs 16...), but if you go for a nice monitor (600$+) then it's plain impossible for it to pay for itself (24 years!), even if you don't count the backlight going dead, I don't think this thing will last so long (are you still using a 10yo monitor? I didn't think so either!)

      And cutting a few watts of "standby" power won't make a huge dent in his bill either. Cutting 20watts (@9cents per KW/h rate) saves about 20$ a year (less than 2$ a month). You'd save more by not buying a coffee (or whatever) just once a month (especially 7$ lattes)... Not worth bothering with IMHO (flicking switches all the time and forgeting, stuff not charged, etc).

      I'll NOT buy a LCD and save WAY more than you did in a year or 2 :P Instant 700$ savings! (It'll take ya about 12 years to save that much with your LCD and power bar @ 50 watts)

  42. Marry well. by Biul · · Score: 1

    'nuff said.

  43. Turn off the computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Turn off the computers. If it's the porn you want, go buy/borrow the adult magazines.

  44. Re:Blue flame heaters by benjamindees · · Score: 1

    Blue-flame heaters. Live in a home older than 30-40 yrs? You probably have enough air exchange to use a blue flame heater, which is 100% efficient. Screw the old furnace or even the new 93% unit, blue flame is 100% efficient and uses no electricity! We got one after a week-long ice storm and discovered it lowered our total natural gas bill by 40%.

    Ventless heaters, while efficient, also cause moisture problems. Moisture problems cause mold and destruction. Mold causes health problems. If you're going to use them, be sure (1) heat the entire house, (2) maintain a constant temperature, and (3) it helps if the walls are insulated. Moisture from the heaters will condense on any cold surface.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  45. refrigerator efficiency by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Informative

    Get a small refrigerator and shop for only one or two days worth of meals. A smaller fridge is going to save on your electrical bill.

    Actually, the small "dorm" refrigerators are so horribly built that they use about as much electricity as a normal sized fridge. The thing that will make a difference, though, is having a new fridge versus an older one. Same goes for old A/C units, don't bother with those.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  46. Ikea bulbs by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 1
    You can get 11 watt (equivalent to 60 watt incandescent) ones pretty cheap ($1/bulb in a 3-pack, I think) at Ikea.
    I have a bunch of those. They also have the nice property that they come on immediately like an incandescent, instead of the noticeable delay that many flourescents have.
  47. Geothermal Heat Pumps by jwdeff · · Score: 1

    This doesn't directly apply to the poster, but for home owners, look into geothermal heat pumps.

    1. Re:Geothermal Heat Pumps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hopefully you live in an area where they will let you put one in...

      Unlike Schaumburg, IL.

  48. Economics isn't the only motivation... by HTMLSpinnr · · Score: 1

    We don't always purchase items to pay for themselves. Using less energy to start with is just a good idea. Look at hybrid car drivers. We drive them not only for great gas mileage, but because it's the right thing to do - smaller environmental foot print, less pollution, etc.

    However - on the kill-a-watt topic, I plugged my entire PC system (monitor, speakers, etc) into it, and realized that even idle, it's using 140-150 watts. While gaming, it jumps up over 200 watts. It's also consuming over 25 watts at idle :-(. The LCD only consumes 2 watts powered off, 4 on standby and 40-something while powered on.

    Even scarier was an old Dell Lattitude laptop I had plugged in but turned off - the power supply drew about 92 watts while plugged into the laptop - even when powered off. Considering I don't use that laptop much, I just unplugged it and put it back into it's case after giving it the tounge lashing of a lifetime.

    Another startling observation, on my kids' computer running an older AMD Athlon TBird 1400 w/ Sk2 bus disconnect software (kinda like cpucool), the difference between idle bit on and off is 90 and 140 watts at idle. If you really must leave the PC on, make sure it's idle loop is as efficent as possible. That guy gets turned off when not in use though.

    Yet another cost saver (depending on how you look at it) - eat out. Make the resaurant pay the energy bill of cooking and cleaning. By the time they've cooked and prep'd the meal, and considering the dirty dishes and cookware that doesn't need cleaning afterward (hot water and dishwasher electricity), you may just come out ahead, break even, or justify the difference toward sheer laziness. Granted, the health impact of eating out just may counter-act any savings.

    --
    $ man woman *
    -bash: /usr/bin/man: Argument list too long
    1. Re:Economics isn't the only motivation... by HTMLSpinnr · · Score: 1

      It's also consuming over 25 watts at idle

      Ack, that should read when powered off.

      --
      $ man woman *
      -bash: /usr/bin/man: Argument list too long
    2. Re:Economics isn't the only motivation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the price of one meal at the restaurant, I can cook four-six meals at home. I can make pancakes at a fourth of the price that can be bought in the city, and the time to make them is short (half an hour for 10 pieces at 26cm diameter)
            Eating home is cheaper.
            As for washing plates and so on, use warm water and more detergent. In the winter, the energy you use for cooking will heat the place, and in the summer is easy to vent it out the window.

    3. Re:Economics isn't the only motivation... by Keeper · · Score: 1

      In the winter, the energy you use for cooking will heat the place, and in the summer is easy to vent it out the window.

      In a small apartment/condo, this really does make a difference. My diet actually involves more "oven-baked" goods in the winter for that very reason.

    4. Re:Economics isn't the only motivation... by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Unless you are using baseboard heat (electric resistance) it is a false economy. Most electric heat systems use 1 kW of electricity to "generate" move actually 3-5kW of heat to where you want it (indoors in the winter/outdoors in the summer). Your oven uses 1 kW of electricity to generate 1kW of heat. While oven baked goods are cheaper in the winter since you do not need to move the excess heat generated out doors, they are not cheaper than modern electric heating systems. Note that this doesn't include gas as I am not too familiar with heat content or cost per kW of gas at current prices.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    5. Re:Economics isn't the only motivation... by Keeper · · Score: 1

      Certainly -- an oven is a poor subsitute for a heater, and I didn't mean to give the impression that it was. But it is certainly cheaper to make something in the oven during the winter than it is in the summer and the "fireplace" effect is comforting. :)

    6. Re:Economics isn't the only motivation... by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Yeah if the cooking is the primary benefit than the heat is a positive externality and you should subsidize oven use. Besides there is not much better than smelling a nice roast or tasty casserole (like lasagnua) in the oven for an hour or a couple.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    7. Re:Economics isn't the only motivation... by DeputySpade · · Score: 1

      Now wait a minute. Explain this to me. How is it that electric heat systems defy the laws of physics by drawing a single kW and expelling 3-5kW into your living space? From whence do those 2-4 "extra" kW of engergy come? If the electric heater spins your meter by one kilowatt hour per hour, it only has 1kW to distribute into your room in the course of that hour. If a person uses of 1kW of power to run their oven over the course of an hour, one kilowatt has been distributed into the room. Now, with the electric heat there are line losses, so there will never be 1kW equivalent of heat generated per kW drawn. In an oven, there will be line losses so there will never be 1kW equivalent of heat that way, either. In the case of gas, there is only passive distribution after the heat is generated. the only "losses" would be the mass of the oven soaking up heat rather than distributing it, but over time, the oven will cool (distribute the heat) anyway, so how by God is an electric heater more efficient than an oven? A gas oven, there's no possible way. Even an electric oven I think you have your work cut out for you explaining the difference. Your mystery watts don't exist. Watts is watts. You only have available what you draw, and it all gets turned into heat anyway Even the line losses become heat.

      Note that in the above I did not account for the possibility that you mean an electric heat system uses 1kW in distribution for every 3-5kW produced. That would seem to be contrary to your point and would seem to make the baseboard heat about 20-25% less efficient than the oven by your numbers.

      --


      This space intentionally left blank
    8. Re:Economics isn't the only motivation... by HTMLSpinnr · · Score: 1

      For the price of one meal at the restaurant, I can cook four-six meals at home. I can make pancakes at a fourth of the price that can be bought in the city, and the time to make them is short (half an hour for 10 pieces at 26cm diameter)

      While this may be true in some cases, one needs to consider the expense and energy of acquiring the ingredients, utensils, and cookware (for college students, you may have none of these) and your own time in making it as well.

      --
      $ man woman *
      -bash: /usr/bin/man: Argument list too long
    9. Re:Economics isn't the only motivation... by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Resistive heaters are effectivly as efficient as your oven (ignoring things like line losses).
      The missing Watts end up outside (or inside depending on the season). Modern electric heating systems create heat directly, rather the energy input is used to pump coolant that transfers heat from one place to another (in most cases the outside air or ground). They don't defy the laws of physics any more than your refridgerator they utilize the property that a rapid decline in pressure cools a gas or liquid. Think of it as an air conditioner that works both ways (it can cool the room or the outdoors).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  49. Cheap Utilities by Dark007 · · Score: 1
    Use www.onetel.co.uk for cheap telephone calls - they even allow you to use their service for mobile phones if you register the number with them. Use dual fuel utilities or use a search engine to find the cheapest offers.

    Pay everything by direct debit from one (joint?) bank account that everyone pays a standard amount in to every month. Put someone you trust in charge of it all.

    Use thick quilts/blankets and turn off the heat at night.

    Draught excluders. Rugs (if you have hard floors). Close the curtains or get some if you dont have any and use blinds as well. Get a curtain for the front and back door.

  50. Compact Fluorescent Bulbs-Heat. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Compacts have another advantage. They don't put out as much heat. That's a real advantage in enclosed fixtures.

  51. Utilities Included by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 1

    It's rare, but you may be able to find a place that includs utilities, specifically electricity in the rental price. I lived in a small studio apartment for over three 1/2 years with all my utilities taken care of (power/water/gas/garbage. . .everything but phone/cable/internet), and not having to worry about power useage was great. You could keep things on all the time and never give it a second thought.

    I even used electric space heaters in the winter (the only heat option the apartment had was a fireplace or leaving the gas oven on, which wasn't too safe).

    Anyone who draws a lot of power as a matter of habit can benifit from a place like that. In the U.S., an apartment with 'free' utilities is a rarity, and I don't know how common they are in the UK, but it's worth checking out.

    --
    The Internet is generally stupid
    1. Re:Utilities Included by baadger · · Score: 1

      I'd second this, even if it did work out slightly _more_ expensive than what you _think_ the place you're looking at now, it gives you the opportunity to manage your budget without having to worry about an unexpectedly high bill. Peace of mind is worth a few pennies.

      On the other hand, some people will say the experience of managing utility bills, wrangling co-habitants about their energy usage and learning to suffer a bit in your home is a healthy one.

      Another thing, think hard whether it's worth doing it at all. I have a friend currently moving off-campus into a house with utilities inclusive. For on campus university accomodation he is paying £75/week for a box room with en-suite. In his new house, which he's sharing with 4 others, he'll be paying £95/week and getting essentially the same thing (but with added freedoms of course). Personally, I think the only reason he's doing it for room for a double bed.

      You may think you're getting on in life moving of university accomodation and have your own place, but why not make the most of the easy life while you can? There is plenty of time in (hopefully) the next 40-60 years to be stingey with the electricity.

    2. Re:Utilities Included by C_Kode · · Score: 1

      I even used electric space heaters in the winter (the only heat option the apartment had was a fireplace or leaving the gas oven on, which wasn't too safe).

      Electric space heaters are notorious for causing home fires and are quite expensive to run.

      As for paid utilities apartments in the US. Well, many places pay water/radiator heat/garbage collections (results may very on location) but all bills paid apartments are generally quite *ghetto*.

    3. Re:Utilities Included by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 1

      That I would second. While in college as an undergrad I spent all four years in the dorms. No worries whatsoever. No matter what happened, I had a place to stay and food to eat (not a nice place, and not good food, but it was there). A college student has pleanty to worry about; bills shouldn't be one of them.

      My utilities included apartment was my third place I lived after college. I just liked how easy it was. I wrote one check a month, and that covered everything.

      --
      The Internet is generally stupid
  52. Re:Locate your meeters, then put a magnet inside w by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heh,
    We farted about with a variable frequency AC supply to an electromagnet and actually managed to get the disc turning (slowly) backwards.

    I think the Electric company just might have got suspicious about that though :-)

  53. Priorities by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
    Even though the cost of fuel seems to be skyrocketing, it's often low down the real priorities for saving money.

    Turning down the thermostat, getting draft excluders (like the sausage type things) for doors and taking showers instead of baths, fitting energy saving bulbs and turning off appliances that aren't in use are simple, effective ways to save money. The shower will also save you time.

    My household heating and cooking is something like £30/month for a decent size house. That's cooking, heating, lighting, the lot. How much would turning down the thermostat by a few degrees save me? Far less than what its worth me not having to wear a coat in the house.

    Concentrate on other things in your spending. Cut out all sorts of rubbish that you don't need. Don't upgrade your computer that does what you need. Learn how to cook with cheaper cuts of meat (casseroles with them can be very tasty - they just take longer). Cook a decent casserole for everyone. Avoid the high end supermarkets. Try supermarket own brands of products which are mostly better. Shop around the offers - if chicken is on special, buy chicken and cook something using it. Consider online shopping for food - you may pay a delivery charge, but you'll be less tempted to pick up things you don't really need.

  54. Change supplier by stupid_is · · Score: 1
    Check out USwitch.com and find the cheapest gas/electric suppliers in your area. Change to them. Then start switching things off a lot, enjoying the benefits of going vegetarian (soya is your meaty friend), or shop here. If you have a car, sell it and walk everywhere. If you need to go further than you can walk, then get a bike (buy a very cheap one and a good lock, as otherwise it'll get nicked).

    Most importantly, brew your own beer. It costs around 10p a pint and can even taste nice if you get a good recipe. Checkout a brewing shop for what you'll need to get to start yourself off.

    --
    -- Intelligence is soluble in alcohol
    1. Re:Change supplier by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
      Good fun if you want to. Personally, never been too keen on people's home brew. Although someone near me makes cider that's quite tasty. Unfortunately, it's also about 8% ;)

      One money saver is to find a local real ale brewery, and get a refillable jug from them. Not only is it cheaper, but from the brewery it will be very fresh.

    2. Re:Change supplier by stupid_is · · Score: 1
      The variety in quality depends a lot on how much effort you're prepared to go to. When I was at Uni they were selling "kits" that you just added hot water to and left for a while. They were dire.

      Instead I nicked my dad's brewing kit, went to the local brewing-supply shop (was about 5 miles away, but I was energetic and cycled there). A big bag of good hops, a large tin of good malt, and a small sachet of yeast. Add to that a small mountain of normal sugar and a couple of hours work in the kitchen and I had a respectable brew at a respectable strength.

      I think the largest problem I had was finding somewhere with the correct (and consistent) temperature to leave it ferment. Obviously, as a student, heating was low on the list when it came to expenditure, so my winter brews were a bit grim if the yeast died.

      --
      -- Intelligence is soluble in alcohol
    3. Re:Change supplier by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
      Sounds good.

      I was thinking of the "kits" which produce horrible beer, drank because it's cheap. If you are trying to do it properly, then the best of luck to you.

    4. Re:Change supplier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SCREW YOU HIPPIE!

  55. Recently by Exter-C · · Score: 1

    Recently I have begun to invest heavily into the use of power saving sytems. I have recently replaced all of my older generation computers with Turion based PCs and new laptops. Using LCD screens. in total I am now saving some serious money off my electricity bill. Minimising your use of gas heating will result in big savings. There have been reports on Television in the UK stating that by cutting the temperature by a few degrees in your house can save well over a £100 for an average family home. Its all the small things that add up to big savings in the long run though.

    1. Re:Recently by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1

      How much are you saving per annum using LCDs? £5? £10? I did work it out and it wasn't a good justification for getting LCD on its own.

    2. Re:Recently by Exter-C · · Score: 1

      It all adds up. We had several 21inch CRT monitors running, we then replaced them with 20inch LCDs If I recall correctly it was from 150watt down to ~50watt so around 1/3rd of the Wattage. When you have them on for around 12hours a day with all of the computers every penny saved makes a big difference, Plus the cost of power in the UK is fairly expensive so the savings are realised much more quickly than in many other areas of the world.

    3. Re:Recently by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
      But you haven't shown the figures.

      Now, I may be buying an LCD soon, but it's not because of the power reasons. If that was the only reason, the economics wouldn't add up. £200 in a bank will yield me more per annum (for at least a few years) than the savings on an LCD monitor.

      It's like solar power. It would cost something like £10,000 to get a solar roof fitted. As my power usage is only costing me something like £3-400 per annum, I simply can't justify financing £10,000 at something like 7% per annum (or at least £700 per annum).

      Cavity wall insulation, however, gave me a return of about 5% per annum, which is worth it. Actually it's probably about break even, but the fact that it gives some environmental benefit was worth it to me.

    4. Re:Recently by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      Certainly, but from the perspective of the poster, and indeed a large majority of the populace, how many of us can afford to be buying "several" new laptops and several 20" LCDs to go with them?

    5. Re:Recently by Exter-C · · Score: 1

      Solar power is not a good investment in the UK, There simply is not enough sunlight to really make it a viable solution. If you run solar in places that the sun shines more and your power company allows you to return excess power to the grid the return on investment can be greatly increased. It will still take several years but you dont have to worry about the energy bills going up as they will continue to go up as the Coal and Gas prices increase as local supply in the UK starts to dry up. Its not always about an investment in todays money it can also be about saving money in the long term.
      The laptops and lower power PCs are only part of the solution as stated several times. Working in a home office and having 1 or 2 monitors on each pc most of the day with the high performance graphics and pcs that went along with it did make a noticable increase in the power bills in the UK. Since replacing all of the units over a 1.5 year period the power bills are significantly lower however that is not the entire solution. We also changed all the old style bulbs with energy efficient replacement units, replaced older less efficient refridgerators etc over time its made a big difference and the savings will be paid off well within 2-3 years.

    6. Re:Recently by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
      I'd guess that the refrigerator made the most difference.

      The best return in the UK is lagging your loft more followed by cavity wall insulation. Both cost relatively little, and yield a good return. Cavity wall seems to have a payback cost of around 5 years. I think loft insulation may even be quicker. It can also make the house feel more comfortable as the heat is more even.

      Showers save a lot of power, and if you are on a water meter, it's even more sensible.

      Solar makes sense to me in a lot of ways, but it's not ubiquitous enough yet. I like the idea of being my own supply, and making good use of people's roofs seems a more pleasant solution than ugly windfarms all over the hills. Solar is probably most worthy of consideration when building a house, or reroofing, when you can absorb some of the labour costs. I've not seen figures on the ROI of solar roofing, and most people marketing it don't seem to mention savings at all (which suggests it's not a good selling point).

      I agree about fuel prices. It seems that we're going to have higher prices from here on in as we have to import more fuel. We may see more people wanting more nuclear power soon.

  56. Several easy measures... by itscolduphere · · Score: 2, Informative

    1. Compact flourescents. Been mentioned all over here, but can't be stressed enough. Modern bulbs work on standard sockets, produce a fairly decent color of light, and no flicker. Also, most large stores carry "value packs," which run $2 US or less (imagine prices can't be that much different there). I know where I live the local utility will rebate you for a certain number of these as well. I saw about 75kWh reduction in my bill over the course of a month by replacing every light I could with these. Note: you generally only want to replace lights that you run for at least an hour at a time with these. These will pay for themselves in six months or less.

    2. Programmable thermostats. Run $35 US or less here. Again, many utilities will rebate you, but YMMV. This is also the kind of improvement that landlords generally won't complain about, and it will more than likely pay for itself over a winter.

    3. Shorten your showers.

    Finally, about those computers. I do not know why you need four running 24/7, but you should reconsider this. Assuming they are desktops, you are drawing a LOT of power this way. I would recommend if you are using any of them for general uploading/downloading of "stuff" you should consider picking up a laptop with a broken screen and run it either headless or through a KVM switch. Attach a large hard drive, your printer, etc. and network it. Then keep all the other computers on standby (or hibernate...I'm assuming you want them to come on as fast as possible, though). The power you save over a year will probably pay for the laptop, hard drive, and any networking accessories you end up needing to buy. Look around, and you can probably find a laptop with more than enough power for fileserving, print serving, and P2P for dirt cheap...and it will draw a fraction of what even one of those desktops draws.

    1. Re:Several easy measures... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      If you really need a machine on 24/7, then it's probably doing things that don't require a display. It might be worth their while to set up a single machine with Xen / VMWare / whatever, and each use a single virtual machine.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  57. and again by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

    Also, check with local green grocers, butchers, fishmongers, etc. rather than super markets. You may be pleasantly surprised by how cheap they are, how much better quality the food is, how much they'll help you (boning, skinning, etc.), if you're lucky they'll weigh after removing fat, plus you'll get as much meat as you want, rather than having to by ill fitting multipacks that don't divide down properly.

  58. Similar Situation by harryman100 · · Score: 1

    I Was in exactly this situation last year. from my experiences (UK specific some of them) here's what I recommend

    Get yourself some decent clothing. I already own a lot of this, I don't mean expensive designer shit, I mean comfortable warm stuff. Wear more than one jumper during the winter.

    Turn your computer OFF. Seriously, this will save you shit loads. I used to run mine all day (not during the night - I can't sleep with it on in my room), and it cost me loads over the summer. I realised I wasn't really using it, so now it only comes on when I get back from uni in the afternoon. If you can't cope without a computer running - cut it down to just 1.

    Buy energy saving bulbs - they're subsidised in the UK at the moment (as I mentioned in another post - http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/) I got some for about £1 a shot. Which if you're using 100W bulbs in your rooms, will be saved in no time.

    Keep the curtains closed when you're not in the house, and turn your bedroom radiators off (I don't actually do this, if you're in a old house, you may find that it takes a long time for the room to heat up each time, so it's worth keeping it relatively warm.

    Get a job - seriously, it will make life so much easier.

    Turn off (completely off) the heating in your kitchen. You will produce enough heat when cooking that you will only notice for the first 5 mins in the room.

    Set the heating to only come on at about 5/6 or roughly about half an hour after it get's dark and turn off around 10pm.

    Consider staying in the same house for more than one year. If you do this, then the landlord might even let you have a slightly discounted rate, and will be less concerned if you do a bit of damage to the house (however, avoid this, landlords can be really arsey about it) It also means you don't have to move out.

    You don't need a car

    Shower every other day - I live with some people who shower twice every day - personally I can't understand it - you don't get dirty that quickly, and it's a real waste.

    Don't worry too much about saving energy really stingely (unless you're really broke) or cutting corners everywhere you can - think about how much difference it will actually make to your bills.

    --
    .sigs are for losers
  59. Re:Locate your meeters, then put a magnet inside w by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

    Yeah, because that works so well on the modern LCD meters commonly fitted to student housing in the UK...

  60. two principles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I've seen several good suggestions in the comments, but many of the commentors do not seem to be taking note of the situation, or are not familiar with the state of most houses rented to students in the UK (e.g. A/C doesnt exist).

    Two principles (1) get rid of the things you don't need (2) reduce the things you need/have no choice about.

    I'll mention energy-saving devices at the end.

    Things you don't need

    - any form of internet access, whether dialup, dsl or cable - if you're still a student, use the university-provided facilities. Annoying, but cheap.
    - and form of subscription tv, cable, sky, etc. Stick to the terestrial channels.
    - you probably don't need a landline phone if *everyone* in the house has a mobile.

    Things you can reduce

    Heating
    - turn the thermostat down to 17C and wear extra clothes. Multiple thin layers are better than fewer thick layers - e.g. tshirt+thin sweater+baggy sweater.
    - make sure every window has curtains. Hang a blanket if they don't. Contrary to what someone else suggested, opening curtains in winter to let the sun in will NOT warm the average UK house unless the window is double-glazed and catches direct sunlight (south-east or south-facing) for several hours. And you still need to close the curtains once the sun moves past. In general keeping the curtains closed will keep more heat in than you gain through sunlight. Exactly when to open the curtains during the day (to save on lighting costs) is a judgement call.
    - turn off the hall radiator and keep room doors closed. You don't live in the hall. Heat the rooms you use and keep the heat in.
    - wear pajamas in bed (!) fleecy ones if necessary.

    Cooking
    - avoid the oven, whether gas or electric.
    - put lids on pans when you cook and turn the heat down once they are at the boil. Even for rice and pasta. Incidentally heating water is energy-expensive, but generally the kettle is more efficient than saucepans, and a gas boiler is more efficient than the kettle. Use hot water from the tap, boil in the kettle, pour into saucepans at the moment you need to use it.
    - if you're house-sharing, share meals too. Separate meals waste fuel.

    Washing/Cleaning
    - dont use a tumble drier if you can reasonably avoid it. Use a clothes line, get a free-standing airer and/or drying racks for radiators.

    Lighting
    - turns lights OFF! (turn anything off when not used. And that's OFF, not standby).

    Energy saving devices.

    Generally, on a limited budget (student), there are few energy saving (E-S) devices worth buying because they're initially expensive and they wont have paid for themselves until long after you're a student. E-S light bulbs take around 5 years. On the other hand if you take the long view, they're only expensive compared to plain bulbs (£5 or less) and you can take them with you after.

  61. Power Factor Correction by blackwing0013 · · Score: 0

    How about power factor correction. It can help but not much.

    1. Re:Power Factor Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      electric meters are supposed to handle this already.
      i.e. they register actual power usage not just volts x amps.
      no correction is needed.

  62. Expect to argue with your housemates by David+Horn · · Score: 1

    I went into private housing with much the same impressions that you did with 6 other people I knew well. Unfortunately, they have no common sense or inkling to save power, and I argued with them for the first 3 months over the fact that they wanted to run the heating at full power 24 hours a day, and left lights (200W) and portable electric heaters running in their rooms.

    The bill was massive, but because their parents paid their share, they didn't care. So now the central heating (a 35kW gas combi boiler) runs 24 hours a day continuously at maximum power... while I'm sitting here with the radiator turned off and the window open! AND THEY STILL THINK IT'S COLD! Apparently, for them 23 degrees is "room temperature".

    --
    PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
  63. VOIP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lots of good suggestions so far, but one that seems to have been missed is using VOIP. I got all my friends onto Skype (they run different OSs) and everyones mobile phone bills have dropped significantly. ~70% of the time you phone someone they are at home anyway.

    I'm in the same situation except I'm living alone. I'm an ok chef and I've been doing to usual stuff such as buying own brand products, less crap (chocolates, biscuits etc). Any suggestions for food recipies for a single person? Most recipies are for multiple people and don't scale down well.

  64. Getting around by name*censored* · · Score: 1

    A lot of these posts suggest no cars... It's pretty hard to get around just with a bike(bicycle). One option you could consider is a motorbike/scooter/minibike. Try sticking to bicycles when you can (with petrol at these prices) - you can make up the difference by offering to take people places, buy groceries, pick stuff up etc. They are also fairly easy to park (you could get away with discretely chaining them to a post). You can get a reasonable(ish) motorbike for well under $1000AUD (about 430).

    --
    Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
    1. Re:Getting around by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
      As someone who lives in the UK, I can tell you that it's very possible if you live in a major city. I've known people live for more than a decade in London without a car. When they went out from London, they typically took the train, and if that wouldn't work for them, they'd rent a car for the odd weekend that that didn't occur.

      If there's two of you, or a family, the sums add up for a car.

    2. Re:Getting around by engagebot · · Score: 1

      I second the motorcycle. I've got smaller sportbike (Kawasaki ninja 250) that gets 60+ miles per gallon, and costs 1/5 of what my car costs to insure.

      It does suck in cold weather and in the rain though. I personally can't do it all the time without a car, but I live in the US, and i'm out of college now...

      --
      Han shot first.
  65. An appraisal by Tau+Zero · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cost of a 60-watt incandescent (1000 hour lifespan): 60 cents.
    Power used over 1000 hours: 60 kWh.
    Cost of power over 1000 hours: $4.80
    Total cost for 1000 hours: $5.40

    Cost of 17-watt CF (60-watt equivalent, in 6-pack from Home Depot): $1.75, with tax.
    Fraction of lifespan used in 1000 hours: 10%
    Total cost of CF for 1000 hours: 17.5 cents
    Power used over 1000 hours: 17 kWh
    Cost of power over 1000 hours: $1.52
    Total outlay for first 1000 hours: $3.27
    Value of remaining bulb lifespan: $1.57
    Total cost for 1000 hours: $1.70

    Appraisal of you: you're much more dogmatic than geekishly analytical. Turn in your geek badge to security on the way out of Slashdot.

    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
    1. Re:An appraisal by gerardrj · · Score: 1

      $1.75 for a CF bulb?
      $.60 for a 60W incandescent?

      I look at home depot on-line.

      16W CF: $7.97
      4pk 60W incandescent: $.99 ($.25 each)

      The CF bulb is 32 times the cost of the incandescent.

      Several dimmer switched on the site are under $10. A dimmer switch will dim several lights at once.

      For the cost of 4 bulbs and a switch I can have nearly, if not more, energy savings and better lighting as a single CF bulb.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    2. Re:An appraisal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop buying your bulbs at home depot. You can buy energy saving bulbs for $0.50 at Building #19 and other discount stores. Event walmart sells them cheaper.

    3. Re:An appraisal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two days ago, I bought a six-pack of 60W-equivalent CF bulbs, *at Home Depot*, for ten bucks. $1.75 per bulb with tax, like the grandparent said.

      People who buy CF bulbs aren't all idiots. They really are cheaper in the long run. Even if the grandparent's incandescent bulb cost was high, there was plenty of margin in the results. Do the math.

    4. Re:An appraisal by raygundan · · Score: 1

      Haven't been to Home Depot in a while, but Lowes carries the 60w-equivalent CF bulbs in 5-packs for $12 at the store, or about $2.40 each.

      I have only had one CF bulb burn out since 1996. Toss in the power savings, and it's an easy choice.

    5. Re:An appraisal by Tower · · Score: 1

      Ah, but you are forgetting the important part - the power company rebate (up to $2/CFL from mine). A 4-pack of the 60W equiv CFLs on sale was less than $8 when I picked them up at Home Depot... meaning a full rebate of the purchase on my next utility bill. Now *that*s a cheap bulb.

      --
      "It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
  66. Power meter & LED light bulbs by WSSA · · Score: 1

    Get yourself a plug-in power meter, Maplin have them (http://www.maplin.co.uk/ product id is L61AQ.

    And these people have LED bulbs: http://www.yourwelcome.co.uk/lightbulbs.html

  67. Advice from a British former student by rjforster · · Score: 4, Informative

    There are a lot of folk on here who don't know a thing about the UK or what a typical student rented house would be like. Advice about A/C is irrelavent.

    Anyway. Assuming no structural changes allowed (so you can't touch wall cavities etc) and assuming you don't have UPVC double glazing etc.

    1. Draught insulation on all doors and windows. Find every draught and stop it. You can get thses strips in Homebase, Do It All etc. They come in different thicknesses so choose wisely. Be prepared to get dirty cleaning all the spaces in the joints where the spiders live otherwise the strips won't stick.
    2. When it's cold, wear more clothes and only heat the rooms you use and keep the doors shut so you don't heat the rooms you're not using.
    3. If you want to heat a room quickly (say you're the first one back after being at lectures all day) get a small desk fan and set it blowing across the radiator in the living room. It will cirulate the warm air surprisingly quickly.
    4. Cook and eat meals together as a group. This is cheaper, you'll eat better and it's relaxing to have everyone sit down together after they have all been out (hopefully) studying all day . Do the obvious like learn how to skin and quarter a fresh chicken rather than buy expensive chicken pieces (hint: kitchen scissors). You don't need to be a great cook, learn to do one simple meal such as a Chilli Con Carne, expand your repotoir later. We had a complicated looking list (it would be a spreadsheet today) of money spent by each person either for the group or for other individuals so we could work out who owed each other what at the end of the term. It saved any arguments and meant the whole 'cooking for the group' thing did work.
    5. Much has been said about computers already. If you can get to a power socket in the library, consider working there. This would obviously require a laptop but you keep warm, have free electricity and hopefully *don't* have a distracting net connection.
    6. If you have big windows, consider that platic double glazing stuff you can get. For what ammounts to some double sided tape and a sheet of clear plastic stuck over the window, then shrunk tight with a hair dryer you do get pretty good insulation.

    One more thing. University is getting stupidly expensive now in the UK, you are going to get into a lot of debt anyway. But you are not there to get a degree as cheaply as possible. You are there to enjoy yourself, to learn about life and yes; to get a degree. So have some fun along the way and don't sit freezing in a room when being warm isn't going to make much difference to the £20k debt you might well be facing at the end. Which is why I don't suggest not drinking beer. You'll be spending more on beer than on food and possibly utility bills as well.

    1. Re:Advice from a British former student by Deanasc · · Score: 1

      Wait, I'm confused. Should we be drinking beer or not?

      --
      I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
    2. Re:Advice from a British former student by Yrd · · Score: 1

      As a British student, I've always avoided beer and the other dubious delights of the pub in favour of spending a decent amount of money on good food.

      That said, a lot of people I knew as an undergraduate spent more on food than I did but ate really poorly, as they had lots of kebabs (never, ever show me a doner kebab if you expect me not to vomit in it) and other takeaway, and ready meals. Expensive and while not necessarily immediately fatal, definitely not good to eat all the time.

      Plus, cooking's FUN.

      --
      Miri it is whil Linux ilast...
    3. Re:Advice from a British former student by Thundersnatch · · Score: 1
      When it's cold, wear more clothes and only heat the rooms you use and keep the doors shut so you don't heat the rooms you're not using.

      I just had a (reputable) HVAC engineer over to my new (to me) house to evaluate things. I asked him about "shutting off rooms" that were unused, and he said it usually has no effect (actually he said ±2% on the utility bill). He said the air in a closed-off room is not stagnant enough to be an effective insulator; it is not practical in homes to completely seal the room air-tight (with plastic tape over eveything including cracks in floor boards, drywall, etc.).

      So the sealed-off room may be at a lower temperature than the rest of the house, which sounds good as there is a lower differential between that room and the outside, meaning less heat loss. But there is also increased heat loss from the rest of your house to the cold sealed room, and the result is a very small net benefit on the heating bill.

  68. VOIP by techstar25 · · Score: 1

    Try Vonage if it's available to you. My local telco, Bellsouth charges around $75/month for a landline with equivalent features. Since I already pay for broadband, the Vonage is only $27/month. I cancelled my digital cable TV/DVR and HD, because I never have time to watch TV. I also cancelled my two cell phones.

  69. Here's one nobody though of... by infinite9 · · Score: 1

    Get out of debt. If you have a credit card balance, you're a slave to the credit card companies. Otherwise you'll be using special kung-fu light bulbs to save 50p a month, then pay 100 pounds to the corporate loan sharks. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish.

    --
    Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
  70. Tapestries are coming back in style! by hot+soldering+iron · · Score: 1

    Back when I was in college (and quickly freezing to death in a rattrap trailer) a friend told me about a trick they used to use in the hills of Arkansas: hang blankets on the walls over unwanted windows and seldom used doors. They blocked drafts and acted as drapes. I used old quilts hung from drape poles for that antique look. It was quite nice, and made decorating easy. Just be aware that if anyone in the house smokes, you'll have to launder them to get the smell out.

    Quilts (insulation blankets) over the refigerator and water heater help improve their efficiency also!

    --
    When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
  71. UK advice from somebody who has been there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - Low energy lightbulbs are great for saving money - Tesco's, Morrison's, B&Q all have them cheap

    - If you are not using it, switch it off at the mains, don't leave it on standby

    - If your kitchen is big enough, it's often a better social space than any living room, plus the gas cooker will heat the room when you're cooking

    - Grub on a Grant, More Grub on a Student or similar publications are great if you want to learn to cook frugally

    - Know when your local supermarket starts to reduce end of life items - this can be a good way of making a cheap diet more interesting

    - Iceland, FarmFoods, etc. are great for buying frozen food in bulk

    - Slow cookers are a great energy and time saver when it comes to cooking

    - Cooking by gas is often a lot cheaper than using the microwave

    - Keep the heating on low (but don't let the pipes freeze!) and pile on the clothes as well

    - Thick curtains can really help to make a room keep the heat in - if you don't have any in the house, check out your local charity shop or scrounge from your parents. (They can also be quite effectived tacked behind drafty doors)

    - Find out what shops will give you discount with your NUS card. A student rail card is also very useful

    Hope these are of some use, and remember rice and pasta are your friends

  72. Mercury vapor lighting is more efficient! by pestie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Get rid of incandescents! They generate waste heat like hell and are expensive to run. Go flourescent as much as you can. We switched out our outdoor lights too (including former mercury bulb yard lights) with this and have seen a noticable drop in electric rates.

    Mercury vapor and (high-pressure sodium and metal halide lights, too) are more efficient than flourescent! The only reason they're not used for indoor residential lighting is because the spectrum is nowhere near that of sunlight. Flourescent lighting is the most efficient type of lighting that also produces a reasonable spectrum. But for sheer photons-per-watt efficiency, HPS, MH and mercury vapor all beat flourescent.

    1. Re:Mercury vapor lighting is more efficient! by GoRK · · Score: 1

      Mercury vapor, sodium, metal halide, etc. lamps are not actually more efficient than good flourescent tubes and ballasts, though they are probably better than compact flourescents. The reason they are used is that they have a much higher MBTF which is really the most important thing when you have to shut down a lane of traffic and pay 5 construction workers for an hour to change the bulb.

    2. Re:Mercury vapor lighting is more efficient! by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      Do you have some actual numbers to back this up? Every stat I've ever seen from bulb manufacturers has high pressure sodium *way* ahead of flourescent in lumens per watt. Not only that, but they'll work in extreme cold environments where you'd never get a flourescent tube to start up. If you save power by using flourescents over sodium it's almost certainly because you're getting less light (which might not be a bad thing).

    3. Re:Mercury vapor lighting is more efficient! by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      I have numbers now... From the US Department of energy. High pressure sodium is still the winner in light per watt for outdoor lighting by 40%.

  73. Easy tips for renters by nelsonal · · Score: 1

    Install florescent bulbs especially in hall lights and less used lamps, place insulating foamboard in unused or less used windows in the winter if it gets cold there (most of the time it is dark when you are home so there is not much to see out the window anyway. Turn down your thermostat in the winter and up in the summer (use wind rather than AC to cool your apartment) if you get hot take a quick tepid shower. Depending on your heater type your PCs are as efficent as baseboard heat. Those are the easy ones.
    If you play to stay in the unit for a few years, see if the landlord will split (perhaps not 50:50) the cost of buying efficient appliances rather than the cheaper ones that landlords usually purchase.

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  74. refrigerator efficiency : keep it full by oneiros27 · · Score: 1

    Even the 'smaller' full sized fridges (intended for smaller apartments and the like), tend to have a lower overall efficiency than a full sized fridge.

    A better trick to keeping a fridge's efficiency up is to keep it full -- if you have a mostly empty fridge, you'll be exchanging all of the cold air for warm every time you open it. Fill up the fridge (and freezer) with jugs of water (leave air space for those going into the freezer), and you can not only save power in the long run, but you're also better protected from spoilage if the power goes out. (a full freezer is generally good for 48hrs ... a half full freezer might last for only 1/2 of that.).

    Oh -- and the person who suggested buying in bulk -- yes, it can help, but only if you actually use it all up in time. (keep and eye on things ... if you don't have a high enough usage rate, you can lose any savings in spoilage)

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  75. cheap, easy solution by glorpy · · Score: 1

    Curtains on a tension rod. They cause no damage, you can remove them when (if) it gets warm out. Close the curtains at sunset. Open them at sunrise. If you're in a cold climate, go for heavier fabric. Warmer climates should use lighter fabric. Watch your heating bills drop in the winter. If you really need to save more, don't go in for the fancy shmancy curtains. Buy some discount fabric and make a quick stitch.

  76. domestic engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bake your own whole wheat bread. Buy brown rice in bulk. Buy beans in bulk.
    Buy cheap produce.

    Wear a sweater in the winter. Keep the shades down in the summer. Ride a bike.
    Turn the damn computers off (should be easy to program that, eh?). Drink cheap
    beer. Don't eat out.

    Here in Virginia, people can get food stamps to live on about $2.50 a day,
    which sounds awful (and is, if the only food you know is potato chips).
    It can be a little harsh in the winter when fruits and vegetables are
    expensive (since they come from South Africa or someplace exotically distant
    for a fruit). But as for staples, a little math shows that homemade bread
    can be had for 2000 Calories/Dollar. Beans around 1500 Calories/Dollar.
    Rice, 2500 Caloreis/Dollar. Etc. For a normal person on 2000-2500 Calorie
    per day diet, that leaves $1.50 a day for fruit and vegetables.

    Diogenese the cynic once said, "If you lived on cabbage, you would not
    have to flatter the rich."

    1. Re:domestic engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drink cheap beer? You, sir, are the epitome of evil.

  77. Window insulation kits by Benanov · · Score: 1

    The next best part about this is that in the US you can cover 3 windows for $6 USD. You make that back easily in the first WEEK.

    1. Re:Window insulation kits by tgd · · Score: 1

      Yup. In my old condo I saved about $600 a winter by doing that. Wish I'd done that the first winter I was there!

  78. Brownfields by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Build somewhere you can sink your own well. Run the pump with an electric motor driven from a solar panel. Keep a huge water storage tank buried next to your house. Never pay the water company ever again.

    In theory that's a good idea, but in practice it's getting harder to find such an area. If you live in or near a city odds are that you will be required to hook up to the municipal water supply.

    Because of that many businesses have been quite cavalier about ground water contaminiation and even 'deep' well injection. Decades of this abuse have allowed contaminants, including many unhealthy ones, to percolate through the groundwater and reach residential areas.

    Other than that, it's a good idea if the water from the well is clean and likely to stay potable for a decade or more. It's almost a necessity if you are to have a garden. Rain barrels will be an asset if you have a garden.

    If you don't have a garden you can still grow a lot on a balcony with good sun. There are all kinds of trick to getting lettuce, tomatos, strawberries, even potatos to grow in very little space.

  79. Hooray hooray hooray for the library.... by TopShelf · · Score: 1

    Once my wife and I had kids, we rediscovered the utility of the public library - plenty of books and DVD's that are already paid for through taxes (excepting late fees, of course). I can't remember the last time we rented a DVD, but now we take the kids to the library almost weekly and constantly have new books or DVD's for ourselves as well.

    I'd add another item: eliminate (or reduce to Sunday's only) the newspaper subscription. At least on Sunday's there are usually coupons that can make the paper pay for itself.

    And when it comes to gaming accounts, there are free options out there - for example, with online poker, many sites have freerolls which, if you can cash in, can get you started with a modest bankroll. I did that at Hollywood Poker, and ended up cashing out $600 between December and January. Now I'm down to zero again, so it's back to the freerolls....

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
  80. LCD vs. CRT by quadong · · Score: 1

    Wrong.

    I use my 19 inch CRT about 2 hours a day on average. The monitor uses about 100W. A 19 inch LCD monitor would use perhaps 20W and cost me $400. This saves me 80W*2h = .16kWh per day or about 60kWh/year. A kWh costs me about 8 cents, so I would save less than $5/year. So after 80 years, I would have recouped the cost of the new monitor. Yay?

    Or let's assume you use your monitor 12 hours a day and LCDs use no electricity at all. Now you save $35/year. Now the pay back time is only 10 years. Less than the lifetime of most monitors, but perhaps almost kinda worth it.

    In summary: No, you will not save money by getting an LCD to replace your CRT, unless electricity is much much more expensive for you than it is for me.

    (Of course, if you were going to get a new monitor anyway, you will save money on electricity if you get an LCD. But that's different.)

    1. Re:LCD vs. CRT by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      Your likely not the typical Slashdot geek. Many of us spend all day in front of a monitor. I spend 8 hours a day using one at work, then go home and may use it for several hours. So say on average I use a monitor for 10 hours. That's 200Wh per day with LCD vs. 1kWh. A savings of 800W or .8kWh per day. At your same .09/kWh rate, Still not great, but savings of $26.28/day.

      But I know that many people also don't have sleep modes or otherwise allow their montiors to shut off in some form. So in those cases, 1.9kWh is saved translating into $62 of savings.

      While you can buy a $400 19" LCD, you can also find them for below $200 after rebates or other type of promos if you do some shopping around. If you leave your monitor on all the time, you could pay for it in a little over 3 years, well within the lifetime of a monitor.

      One thing that neither of us is considering is the fact that a CRT based monitor radiates more heat then the LCD equivilent, at least in my experience. While the extra heat may be welcomed in the winter, it's not the most efficient way to heat a room. And in the summer, it just adds to your cooling bill.

    2. Re:LCD vs. CRT by quadong · · Score: 1

      I don't see how my use of a monitor at work impacts my decision whether or not to buy an LCD for home. It's not the same monitor. At home, I pay. At work, my employer pays. My estimate was based on home usage, which is, after all, the topic of this whole conversation.

      (And I assume you meant $26.28/year.)

    3. Re:LCD vs. CRT by jwdeff · · Score: 1

      "Four computers will be running pretty much all the time"
      "We'll still be students"
      That strongly implies more than 2 hours a day of home usage.
      I wouldn't be surprised if it was 12 or more. College student? Posts on Slashdot? There's a good chance their homework is done on the computer, recreation is done largely on the computer (games), and socializing is done largely on the computer (IM, Blogs). OLD 19" CRTs are closer to 150 watts of usage from what I've read. Summer time (when power over so many kwh's costs like 50-75% more) we'll have the additional air conditioning costs. So depending on actual usage, climate, energy costs, etc, we're looking at 3-8 years for payoff. Not exactly a single line "Wrong.".

      If you include auxiliary benefits such as decreased eye fatigue, less space on the desk, clearer picture, etc, an LCD is a good idea. I know we're not discussing whether or not LCDs are a 'good idea', but I believe they are for any heavy computer user.

    4. Re:LCD vs. CRT by quadong · · Score: 1

      Each monitor is going to be used for 12 hours/day, every day? Sounds highly unlikely to me, despite e-mail/homework/IM/blogs/shopping/gaming/whatever. College student usually have 2-3 hours of class per day, and sleep 5-8 hours. This leaves no more than 17 hours, some of which will be spent commuting, in dead time between classes/events, eating out, watching TV, misc activities, doing homework that can't be done on the computer, or even (gasp) just socializing without a computer present.

      To put it another way, 12 hours of computer use means waking up at 8 to go to class at 9, getting back from class at noon, sitting down in front of the computer and proceeding to use it constantly until midnight. To satisfy the formula we're using, this has to be done every single day year round, including weekends and holidays. And all 4 computers have to be used like that. Believe what you will, but that just doesn't sound likely to me.

      In the end, they will have to estimate how many hours they actually use and figure out whether it's reasonable for them. I suspect they will find that it is not.

  81. New thermostat by myth24601 · · Score: 1

    Buy a programable thermostat. You could then let it lower the temp a few degrees when you are normally away and at night.

    --
    No matter where you go, there you are.
  82. Three simple things, one more complex by Maury+Markowitz · · Score: 2

    It all depends on the house in question, and the relative cost of gas to electricity. Here in Canada, and the US I assume, gas heat was cheaper than electric for many years, but recent rises in gas prices have made this less clear today.

    I lived in a house in Ireland for some time. It was built in the 1970s, and was astonishingly inefficient. I remember watching the TV one night and suddenly realizing why the house was so cold -- the drapes in the living room were blowing around, I had left a window open. Actually, the window was closed, the wind was blowing right throught the gaps around it. The whole house was like this, so if the one you end up in is similar, here's some thing:

    1) there's a film you can buy that heat-shrinks to form an almost perfectly transparent barrier over your windows. You put it up in late fall and tear it down in the spring. It takes 5 to 10 minutes per window to install. The effect, if you have windows like mine, is astonishing.

    2) get a timed thermostat. Set it to lower the temperature at night and during the day when no-one is home. That's 10-15% if you lower it enough.

    3) you can get foam gaskets that fit behind the electrical sockets, blocking airflow into the room. Yes, I know, it sounds like this can't possibly make a difference. Wait until you have a windy night then hold your hand over a socket on an outside wall some time.

    4) this one is slightly harder: buy a caulking gun, practice up on some cardboard, and then caulk around every baseboard, door and every other crack you can find. I highly recommend using the transparent silicone that you can later peel off. It costs a little more, but it's easy to fix if you blow it during application, and you can get rid of it if anyone complains. Caulking is messy when you first try it, but easy once you get the hang of it.

  83. Insulate you hot water cylinder by TallGuyRacer · · Score: 0

    You can buy proper hot water cylinder 'wraps' that act like a blanket and prevent heat lose, but they are quite expensive. Instead, go to your local op-shop and buy some cheap blankets or towels. Get some duct tape and go to it. You would be amazed the difference it makes.

    1. Re:Insulate you hot water cylinder by gothzilla · · Score: 1

      Way to create a major fire hazard. The blankets made specifically for hot water heaters are made to not burn, since a hot water heater does this thing where it gets, you know, hot. You might save a few bucks on a blanket but how much does replacing everything after a fire cost?

  84. Learn how to cook by Duck+of+Death · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm in the US so my experiences may not translate directly to your situation, but here goes:

    Learn how to cook - preparing meals yourself is cheaper than eating out or buying pre-packaged convenience foods from the market. I can do a chicken dinner (roast chicken w/gravy, rice, salad and veg) for 4 for $10 or $2.50 per person (about 1.45 GBP). Learn how to make a few basics - roast chicken, marinara sauce, eggs, soup, etc. You don't need a lot of equipment and most parents would love to help you equip a basic kitchen setup.

    Shop the sales and buy in bulk if you have the storage space (if you've got a house, you've got the storage space). Pasta is cheap, usually about $1 per pound here, but it also can be found on sale from time to time for 50-60% off. When that happens, buy 10 pounds. It's not going to go bad, and you will eventually eat it all. Get a warehouse club membership (or use someone else's) to buy basics like paper towels, toilet paper, meat.

    Plan your meals and the use of leftovers. Roast two chickens on Friday night, eat one, and on Saturday make chicken salad or chicken soup with the other. If you're tired of chicken, put it in the freezer, thaw the marinara sauce and make spagetti.

    Turn the computers off. I have a computer that's on most of the day, but when I started making sure it was turned off at bedtime I noticed the difference on my electric bill immediately. I have a tiny Linksys NSLU2 file server that's on all the time, but it only draws 5 watts or so, and it's suitable for my 3 computer home network.

    Use compact flourescents. My kitchen lights are on most of the day, as is the floor lamp in the living room. Before I swapped out the bulbs, I figured I was drawing over 600 watts per hour. Now that the flourescents are in, I'm drawing 150 watts per hour. Between making sure the computer was powered off at night, using the compact flourescents, and just trying to make sure lights are off if no one is in the room, my electric usage has dropped by 20% per month (which is good because rates went up significantly recently).

    By shopping sales and bulk buying, doing some basic meal planning and cutting down on waste, I cut my grocery bill by 30% (I tracked it for a few months). And we are pretty much eating exactly the same stuff as before - we're just being smarter about when we buy and how we use it.

    DD

    --
    "Can I finish? Can I finish? ... Okay, I'm finished."
  85. Water Heater insulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Most modern water heaters are well-insulated by construction, and do not need the insulation wrap. The best way to determine if you need the wrap is to put your hand on the side of the water heater. If it feels warm, then the heater is not well insulated. Use the wrap; or better yet, replace it with a modern one, which will probably work better and be better insulated.

  86. Turn the heat way-y-y down by OhHellWithIt · · Score: 1
    True story:

    In my second year off-campus, I shared an apartment with two others, and we split the electric bill evenly. December came and was uncommonly cold. The electric bill was a budget-buster -- more than the first 4 months combined! So we turned the heat off to save money.

    January was colder. We had ice forming on the inside of the windows. As the end of the month approached, I went out and read the meter, so I could get an idea of how much money we were going to have to cough up when the next bill came. You can imagine my surprise and irritation when I discovered that the meter hadn't yet caught up to the previous month's final reading.

    I think we finally caught up with the December reading in early March, and I learned to always check the meter if a bill seems out of sorts.

    --
    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
  87. Re:Insulating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Even when you can't make physical changes to the house (if you're renting, no ripping up walls to add insulation), there are a number of ways you can insulate better. Home Depot (or your country's equivalent) sells plastic sheeting that you can put over windows, which eliminates drafts and adds a lot to the insulation of the windows, which are often the worst offender for heat leakage.

    Moving bookshelves to outside walls can help as well; you might be surprised at the insulation factor of six inches of paper.

    Checking outside doors for drafts and eliminating them helps too.

  88. Get laptops instead of desktops... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Find yourself a quite cafe or pub, preferably with wireless hotspot (some of them may be quieter than a house full of students), and plug your laptop. You spend some money on a drink or coffee (I guess you would anyway), but save energy on your hungry computer :).

  89. Re:Locate your meeters, then put a magnet inside w by Valdrax · · Score: 1

    Silly British and their infrastructure-investing public utilities. Enlightened private firms realize that spending money on more efficient and tamper-proof monitoring of existing customers hurts the quarterly profit-line.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  90. LEDs are even MORE efficient by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Flourescents? How nineties of you! LEDs blow the doors off all other contenders and are getting better at the pace of Moore's Law. Dude, a flippin' string of LED Xmas lights or two is enough to light a small room and they use less power than a conventional nightlight.

    Anyway, if the intent is to cut running expenses to the bone, then a surplus PV panel, a car battery, a protoboard, and some raw LEDs from Jameco would mean not paying *anything* for light.

    1. Re:LEDs are even MORE efficient by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      I know you're trolling, but in terms of lumens per watt, LEDs aren't even as good as flourescent. The only reason most LEDs use so little power is that they emit so little light. Not only that, but white LEDs cost so damned much that even if they were more efficient it would be a REALLY LONG TIME before you ever saw return on your investment.

      There's a reason you can't by LED lightbulbs for your home lamps.

  91. Keep a large fridge FULL by exegesis+clique · · Score: 1

    A lot of those smaller type refridgerators are pigs when it comes to electricity. Throw down the cash and buy an efficient modern refridgerator and KEEP IT FULL. Keep it full either with food stuffs, or keep your plastic gallon milk jugs and fill them with water. (Or in a pinch ziplock bags filled with water.) The more full the fridge (the freezer especially) the more the stuff inside keeps everything cold. Less work for the fridge itself. If you need extra freezer space, get a floor model that opens from the top. Cold air stays at the bottom. The refridgerator is probably one of the worst offenders in your home. Major savings can be had when you use it smartly. (Ohh and NEVER stand in front of it and keep it open for too long. Major waste)

  92. Unplug devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Anything plugged into an electrical outlet will pull a small amount of electricity for its "standby" mode. This may not seem like much, but consider that's ~300 hours per month, and it's probably a lot of devices. Anything with a transformer on it probably heats up, too, which likely doesn't help you.

    Best advice? Read Alan Zelicoff's book "Saving Energy Without Derision" (look further down in this page ). It's about simple ways to save energy, before going to extremes like installing a $20,000 solar installation. You can purchase it for $10 (US) or you might find a PDF of it somewhere out there. It's got loads of advice about watching your usage and carefully managing it.

  93. Foam and Caps by Deanasc · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Since you're renting you don't have much choice in how it's insulated but there are a couple things you can do and your landlord might even let you deduct the cost if you approach him before you do it. If you have access or can get it for a day, take a look at not only the water heater but if you have hot water pipes for heating check those pipes as well. Every bit of pipe that's exposed is a source of heatloss so every bit of pipe you see should be covered in pipe foam. It's a couple dollars or pounds or euros for every ten feet or 3 meters. One or two bags should cover the pipes in an open basement. I know you can't run the foam all the way to your apartment, once the pipes go into the walls you have to hope there's insulation.

    The other thing you can do is check the wall switches and outlets. If you feel a draft a spray can of electrical outlet safe foam will go a long way toward sealing the draft. But you're not done yet, put caps on any outlet that isn't in use, all those slots in the house can equal a quater inch or one half centimeter open window.

    --
    I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
    1. Re:Foam and Caps by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Every bit of pipe that's exposed is a source of heatloss so every bit of pipe you see should be covered in pipe foam.

      Side benefit is that if all the pipes are covered in foam you are far less likely to have problems with bursting from frozen pipes.

      Not a problem in my area, but some locales it's critical.

  94. Re:Locate your meeters, then put a magnet inside w by Deanasc · · Score: 1

    Those meters may still be using a mechanical device to measure the power. The magnets might still work. If they ever did. I would think that gumming up the main rotor would be a better option. Blow in some cornstarch and wait for a humid day. Meter still runs but slowly. That's just a theory though. I haven't tried it.

    --
    I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
  95. Create a grocery co-op of sorts by smagruder · · Score: 1

    In other words, pool all the groceries regularly needed by the group into one big list, and carefully plan shopping trips.

    Clip coupons and match them with specials at various stores. (note: I have no idea if there's such a thing as coupons in the UK)

    Stick to the group-approved list, and don't stray from it.

    Set a hard budget for the shopping trip, and drop unnecessary items that don't fit within the budget.

    --
    Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
  96. I have 3 letters for you... by CommanderData · · Score: 1

    P2P - (Ok, 2 letters and a number...)

    File sharing is probably the biggest reason why people leave their PCs on 24/7 these days. Of course you can cut electricity costs if you use a low end PC with no monitor for BitTorrent, Emule, etc.

    --
    Urge to post... fading... fading... RISING!... fading... fading... gone.
    1. Re:I have 3 letters for you... by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      I leave mine on to do protein folding...

      Jaysyn

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
  97. and if you forget, it's ruined by barutanseijin · · Score: 1

    If you try to dim a compact fluorescent bulb, it'll go off and never come back on again and you'll lose any potential savings from the electricity. Don't even think about trying it!

  98. free heat all winter by mediocubano · · Score: 1

    While you are paying for the electricity delivered to the inside of your apartment, hopefully for you there are outlets in the common areas (hallways, outside patio, etc) that the landlord provides! So go get a space heater and an extension cord. Or anything and an extension cord. Plug it into the hallway outlet, and your landlord is heating your apartment. I knew guys that did this their last year in school here in the US and they got away with it.

  99. Beware of health problems down the road by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

    Laptops rock, but be aware of your posture... laptops reinforce poor posture that can lead to carpal tunnel & back problems.

    I've gone through back surgery, its expensive, painful and not something that you want to go through to save $4 on your power bill.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  100. Learn to Homebrew by rrhal · · Score: 1
    Forget the internet - Cut your beer costs!! http://www.homebrewtalk.com/

    Your hardware store sells kits that let you put a layer of clear plastic over your windows. Very helpful for the coldest winter months.

    --
    All generalizations are false, including this one. Mark Twain
  101. Nitpicking by raygundan · · Score: 1

    Ahem. Engineer here. (it's fun to be pompous!)

    Resistive electric heat is, as you say, pretty much interchangeable with heat produced by anything else running on electricity in your house-- as long as you're in the season where you heat the house.

    An electric heat pump, however, can move 3 or 4 watts of heat into the house for each watt of energy consumed. Much more efficient than incandescent lights or your PC for warming up the house.

    That's just a nitpick, though, and he probably meant resistive heating. The real clincher, as you point out, is that it only works this way when you're having to heat your house. You might as well reduce the amount of waste heat you produce anyway, since you're going to have to deal with it in the summer if you're trying to save energy. On the other hand, making 200W worth of heat by doing useful computations during the winter is a better use of the power than warming up the element in your resistive heater.

  102. BS by Sleepy · · Score: 2, Informative

    >The only reason most LEDs use so little power is that they emit so little light.

    Your facts are WAYY wrong. If you want to refute something, at least do a lazy Google search and you could have saved yourself a bad post.

    1) LEDs approach 100% efficiency.
    2) Florescent lights are about 50% efficient (and varies.. compact Edison style bulbs are less efficient... LED doesn't care about the form factor)
    3) Incandescent lights (including halogen) are about 5-10% efficient. That is NOT a typo they are 90% heat waste.

    Not sure where the heck you live, but in most US cities they have begin using TWENTY WATT LED lights to replace TWO HUNDRED WATT traffic bulbs. The LED lamp uses 90% less power but has 100% the same brightness.

    The LED bulbs longer and does not burn out all at once -- lowers the accident rate and requires less maintenance.

    cite:
    MIT Technology Review: http://www.technologyreview.com/InfoTech/wtr_13179 ,294,p2.html
    http://alt-e.blogspot.com/2005/04/energy-efficienc y-led-lights-to.html
    etc.

    > Not only that, but white LEDs cost so damned much that even if they were more efficient it would be a REALLY LONG TIME before you ever saw return on your investment.

    I'll concede that point.

    It also takes a REALLY LONG TIME to recover the investment in a hybrid.

    It's gonna get cheaper now that China is in the manufacturing game. Their government has "selfishly" decided they don't want to export their newfound wealth to Saudi Arabia they want to keep those energy costs at home (something a lot of Americans would shrug off unfortunately).

    I'd expect something competitive with CF bulbs in 4 years tops.

    >There's a reason you can't by LED lightbulbs for your home lamps.

    Good thing I did not ask you before I bought one. And yes, I only bought one they ARE expensive.. like $35 when I got one and down to like $25 now. The nice thing about it is there's no heat waste. When the cost goes down, I expect air conditioning to be cheaper since you're not fighting waste heat generation.

    The early adopter applications will drive this down... think of all the bulbs running in car lights and RV's and motorcycles. LED replacements for those are just as bright and not much more. Bright LED brakelights are already standard on many commercial trucks.

    1. Re:BS by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      You need to read your own references before you call bullshit on somebody.

      Your articles say that they're more efficient that incandescent (duh), and Compact Flourescent. Those are at the low end of the efficiency scale.

      White LEDs aren't even close to 100% efficient, because a large portion of the light they emit isn't in the visible spectrum. They don't work strictly like normal LEDs.

      Efficiency wise, white LEDs fall between CF and traditional flourescent in producing visible light. I'd provide a reference, but there's no definitive guide, so instead I'll show you how to do the research and the math yourself. First read about how to determine how much light an LED actually produces, and why you can't compare lumens to candela directly. Then take a look at some incandescent and flourescent lamps, and you'll see that incandescent produces between 15 and 20 lumens per watt, CF produces between 40 and 75 lumens per watt, traditional flourescent goes up to about 100 lumens per watt, and high pressure sodium are around 140 lumens per watt.

      The best white LEDs currently available produce 37 lumens per watt and there may be 60 lumens per watt LEDs available soon.

      It pisses me off that blatent mis-information like what you posted gets modded up, while the truth doesn't, just because geeks have an unnatural love for LEDs.

  103. A few hints. by TomTraynor · · Score: 1
    • Use compact flourescent lights. There is a small savings.
    • Turn off anything that is not needed. Use a powerbar for TVs and other electronics. They really don't turn off, but, go into standby.
    • Plug leaks in the windows and doors. There are kits out there that will really make a difference.
    • Keep the temperature a bit lower. It is easier to put on another sweather or blanket.
    • During the day turn off the lights and use natural light.
    • Make sure the coils on the back of the fridge is clean. Hair and other debris will make the fridge work harder than it has to.
    • Install an higher efficency shower head. The less water you use is the less that you have to heat.
    --
    Panic now, beat the rush!
  104. Breakthrough in LED efficiency? by benjamindees · · Score: 1

    As for traffic lights, those are a special case, not white, and must be heavy-duty. But, that's beside the point:

    LED lights for sale today are still less efficient than the average compact fluorescent, and nowhere near as efficient as fluorescent tubes, but these guys claim to have made a breakthrough. Perhaps LEDs that replace fluorescents could come soon after all.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  105. Make your own booze - Mead recipe by Esteanil · · Score: 1

    8 litres of water
    500 grams of sugar
    500 grams of brown sugar
    2 lemons
    1 dl syrup
    ginger (optional)
    1/4th teaspoon of yeast
    raisins
    Boil the water, pour it over the other ingredients. Cool until temperate, stir the yeast in a little water and add it.
    Leave for 24 hours, then pour it through a sieve and bottle it.
    Add 1/2 to 1 1/2 teaspoon of sugar and 1 raisin per bottle before corking them.
    Store bottles for 1 week... Then have a party.
    Mead generally gets to something like 20% alcohol, tastes good (might take a bottle or so before you get used to it)... And you drink it pretty much like beer...
    Which is another advantage, as most of the party will pass out before getting to expensive stuff like going out ;-)

    --
    I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
  106. Yes, $1.75 for a CF bulb by Tau+Zero · · Score: 2, Informative
    I got them where the AC did, at Home Depot in the $9.99 6-pack package. This offer might not be available on-line, but they're right there at the checkout lanes.
    The CF bulb is 32 times the cost of the incandescent.
    Even at that price, the incandescent burns enough energy to make up the difference in < 2000 hours. I've paid $20 for some 3-way circle-tube CF's. I've gotten my money's worth out of them.

    Several dimmer switched on the site are under $10. A dimmer switch will dim several lights at once.
    Light output of an incandescent is proportional to the 3.1 to 3.4 power of applied voltage. If you run the dimmer down to where the bulb is only taking 25% power (about what the CF consumes relative to the incandescent), you won't have any useful light output; the
    For the cost of 4 bulbs and a switch I can have nearly, if not more, energy savings and better lighting as a single CF bulb.
    You'll be getting many fewer lumens/watt and consuming way more watts overall, and it gets worse and worse the further you dim them.
    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
  107. Try by BlueBat · · Score: 1

    One thing that will save energy over time is the fluorescent light bulbs. You can get 60 watt types that only use 15 or so watts. Or if you need more light, you can get 100 watt light that only use 24 or so watts. This wont be major savings but they will be constant.

  108. Resistive or heat pump? by tcgroat · · Score: 1
    A KWHr from the computer is equivalent to a KWHr of resistance heating, but not necessarily to a KWHr in a heat-pump. Heat pumps can be more effective than resistance heat, especially if the source heat exchanger is close to room temperature. Ground-source heat pumps use the relatively stable sub-soil temperature to achieve impressive results, many times better than resistive heat.

    Of course, this is an option for the landlord, not the renter. So turn your thermostat down as far as you can stand, get an automatic set-back thermostat if you don't have one, and learn to love warm clothes and thick blankets.

  109. TV License by jrmcferren · · Score: 1

    No, I'm not from the UK, but I read an official website on this issue. For those of you that are wondering, I'm from the USA. First limit yourself to one TV if you can, this means on VCR DVR or anything else that has an antenna input. If you can, get a black and white TV as these are cheaper. You may also qualify for a university student discount for your license. DON'T skip the license as this could cost you 1,000 POUNDS for a fine. The TV license website is http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/index.jsp. I'm going off to a different type of college soon, I will spare you the details to keep this post on topic.

    --
    sudo mod me up
  110. The EnergyStar Fallacy by Webmoth · · Score: 1

    There's a common fallacy when it comes to saving energy: that shutting things off will reduce your home's total energy consumption.

    This is only true when the outside ambient temperature is greater than the inside ambient temperature, and you are wish to maintain the inside temperature.

    Let's consider the light bulb in the stairway that the kids left on. It's probably a 60 watt bulb, maybe there are two of them. So that's 120 watts, but to make the math easier let's assume it's 100 watts. We all agree that incandescent light bulbs are mighty inefficient, maybe 1% light and 99% heat. So really, only 1 watt of electricity is going to provide light, and the other 99% are wasted.

    But wait! Those other 99 watts aren't wasted after all. They are providing heat to your home, meaning your furnace need provide 99 watts less power to maintain the temperature of your home. Because the light is on, the furnace runs less often. The fact that the light bulb is on has ZERO impact on the total energy consumption of the household during the heating season.

    (As a side note, we are really getting 100 watts of heat out of the 100 watt light bulb, because that other 1 watt of visible light decays to infrared energy and therefore becomes heat.)

    Now, it just may be that one watt of heat energy is a lot cheaper to buy in gas form than electric form. If that's the case, then by all means turn stuff off. You won't be saving energy, but you might be saving money. And if it's the summer season, turn stuff off so the house stays cooler and the AC doesn't have to work as hard.

    TURNING STUFF OFF ONLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE IN THE SUMMER.

    --
    Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
  111. Bubble wrap by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

    Just as good as double-glazing. No-one wants to see your mess anyway, and you will only be up and about during the hours of darkness.

  112. A hybrid is not the right thing to do by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    You can do far more good for the world (either for the environment or for human health and welfare) with the $3000 you blew on having a fancy badge for your goodness.

    1. Re:A hybrid is not the right thing to do by HTMLSpinnr · · Score: 1

      Owning a hybrid for me isn't about the money, but about social responsibility and environmental impact. I feel better knowing that my contribution to Phoenix's growing smog problem is less my fault, and more of the smoke belching truck or diesel SUV driving past me. Global warming (in the desert, that's very real) was another consideration. My purchase of two Prius was also a statement to the auto industry that (economy) hybrids are viable, desirable, and my only preference of vehicle. That, and what geek can't appreciate one of the most technologically advanced cars in production (at it's purchase time) for under $30k.

      I can think of far greater wastes of money occuring every day that cause my "$3000" to pale in comparison. The H2 comes to mind, our "war on terror" that our thirst for oil seems to "fuel" (the aforementioned H2 doesn't help one bit here), misappropritaed government budgeting, corporate greed, etc.

      You'll note that in this thread, my arguments never once suggested buying a hybrid as a means of saving money (unless you find one used for a lower than market price). I tell anyone looking to buy one that if their sole motivation is to save money on gas, they can realize a greater immediate savings w/ a standard economy car with slightly lower MPG. Owning a hybrid is taking it one step further though when one's values place social responsibility higher than capitalistic values (in other words, it isn't about the money).

      --
      $ man woman *
      -bash: /usr/bin/man: Argument list too long
  113. Re:CRT vs. LCD by hlygrail · · Score: 1

    You just gave me mod points for still having 21" CRTs on all my PCs. Even at work, I found some 21" CRTs that had failed white (the Sony tube w/ the resistor that fails). A quick Google search found details on which resistor failed, and what to replace it with. I actually did the replacement while on the phone with a customer, helping them restore a very, very "down" system.

    Now it works great, takes up lots of room (less room for papers and crap), and I *know* I am more efficient than my counterparts that got stuck with ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H handed 19" LCDs. My 21" CRT will easily do 1600x1200 @100Hz, but the LCDs will only do 1280x1024 @72Hz.

    I win. :)

  114. Eco-balls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since you're in the UK, get some Eco-Balls. 1000 loads of wash for 35 GBP -- that would last me 10 or 20 years.

    Sadly, I'm in the USA, and they don't ship overseas, so I still have to use old-fashioned soap. :-(

  115. Water heater idea by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

    I just thought of this. They should add artificial intelligent to water heater thermostats. It would require a clock, and probably have it adjust for daylight savings time, but have it learn what times of day the hot water is needed, and have it heat accordingly to be most efficient.

    Also, if possible, use natural sunlight to heat the water heater as much as possible when possible because it's essentially free energy, if you know what I mean. This way it would cut down on electricity.

  116. Easier said than done by tepples · · Score: 1

    Find a better paying job that is closer to where you live.

    As soon as you find a red apple that is green, or explain how what you ask is not a contradiction in practice.