Prostitutes Call for a Ban on GTA

d writes "Gamespot has an article about an association of prostitutes protesting the GTA games. Apparently, the sex workers of the Sex Workers Outreach Project aren't too happy about their ingame counterparts being treated violently in the GTA games. They note that the games are a bad influence on children, and might encourage rape and violent behavior towards prostitutes in real life."

Comments

Prostitutes?

[Dog Chapman]

Fuck them!

Re:Prostitutes?

[JoeLinux]

Naww....you might catch something...

Re:Prostitutes?

[Dashing Leech]

"Prostitutes are already dead inside."

Joke aside, not all prostitutes or prostitution environments are the same. GTA tends to portray the cliche streetwalker/drug addict/forced-into-by-pimp hookers. Brothels, escorts, call-girls, strippers, and porn actresses (including the amateur/web stuff) have different environments from this.

I'm surprised nobody has made the argument that the violence against hookers (the streetwalking/drug addict/pimp kind) in GTA might actually educate youngsters that hooking (SW/DA/pimp kind) can be dangerous and undesirable, as opposed to "Pretty Woman" and similar portrayals which may cause more women to get into prostitution.

Of course for that to happen it would have to be little girls that play GTA, which is the main demographic to play it, right? Guys? Hello? Why are you all looking at me funny?

Re:Prostitutes?

[mjuarez]

P.S. Maybe people would be nicer to prostitutes if they were FREE

That totally cracked me up. But seriously, people have got to lighten up. This is a GAME! Are SWAT unions protesting because they're the main target in CounterStrike? Is Germany demanding that the US stop selling Battlefield 2, because it depicts violence directed to German citizens? I would guess the answers would be "no", and "no".

Not to say that these games will ruffle some feathers (I read recently about some indians threatening to sue a game company because of its 1800's shooter), but they're not supposed to be representations of real life. Anyone stupid enough, or sick enough, to believe that and later try to do it in real life, ought to be locked up anyway.

Marcos

Re:Prostitutes?

[chris_eineke]

Of course for that to happen it would have to be little girls that play GTA, which is the main demographic to play it, right?

Believe or not, my 12-year-old sister enjoys GTA:SA. She drives around in cars and on motorcycles and when she is up for a challenge she clubs a hooker to death.

Yes, I - too - think that's scary.

Re:Prostitutes?

[smvp6459]

I would like to comment that there are "Pimp" missions in GTA: San Andreas where you come to the aid of your "ladies" and protect them from violent johns. Maybe this will teach our children that those who abuse prostitutes may themselves end up beaten/dead. Seems like a good counter balance to potential malfeasance. Plus some of the prostitutes carry knives and guns...another good lesson for our children.

Re:Prostitutes?

[Y0tsuya]

These lame protests will be nothing compare to the fallout from my upcoming game: Imam Turkey Shoot.

Re:Prostitutes?

[binarybum]

right on. and let's not forget that GTA didn't start this - it can all be traced back to the ninja turtle arcade game where you have a chance to whack that whore on the skateboard.

Re:Prostitutes?

[Eli Gottlieb]

Why should the cops spend ANY time investigating an org centered around a legal activity?

They seem to spend plenty of time investigating the ACLU, so you tell me.

Re:Prostitutes?

[Commander Olav]

Very true. but seriously I dont think prostitutes should be offended by that. I dont get mad at SNL's "Your Company's Computer Guy" That is actually funny.

Re:Prostitutes?

[russ1337]

you dont pay a prostitute for sex, you pay her to leave....

Re:Prostitutes?

[flyingsquid]

Does it have a cartoon of Mohammed in it?

They should make a fighting game where all the characters are religious figures. So you can be Jesus and beat the crap out of Mohammed, or vice versa. Other characters would include Satan, Buddha, Mary, an Orthodox rabbi, Vishnu, God, Santa, the Easter Bunny and Cthulhu. You wouldn't even have to make a profit off the game to get filthy rich- you'd just invest in defense contractors and then when screenshots of Mohammed and Satan tag-teaming the Easter Bunny and Buddha start circulating around the world, World War III starts and your defense stocks go through the roof.

Re:Prostitutes?

[bypedd]

Most of the comments on this article are astoundingly immature and disrespectful. Prostitution may not be an acceptable job for most people, but that in no way makes them less human, and if anything it makes it important for them to form organizations to support other sex workers.

Whether you condone the profession or not, that shouldn't affect their worth as a person who deserves respect.

And I do think this is bunk - just like the idea that schools are less safe because of GTA, or that 13 year olds are more violent. But the fact that the general response to this has been "Prostitutes? Hah! They're sluts anyways, who cares what they think?" is more than a little disconcerting.

Re:Prostitutes?

[afxgrin]

It's good to know that I'm not the only person who has thought about this idea ... aside from the making money from the conflict afterwards.

Aside from that, what kind of finishing moves do you think Jesus would have?

Re:Prostitutes?

[marko123]

"The Crucifix?"

Re:Prostitutes?

[ultranova]

Hitler (even though he had some pseudo-christian views) and Gengis Khan aren't widely considered to be religious figures.

Hitler represents the ultimate in human evil in popular culture (dunno if he really was, the competition is though for that position), just like the devil represents the ultimate in supernatural evil. As such Hitler definitely has religious significance. He's a kind of anti-saint, and has been nominated as a possible candidate for being the Beast of Revelation.

Point is, Hitler's become legendary. In reality, of course, he was just an evil and likely insane human who gained power and not "evil given human form" or something like that, but the man has long since been eclipsed by the legend.

Hitler was, for all intents and purposes, worshipped in Nazi Germany. Even now, long dead, he casts a shadow over modern-day Germany - and the whole word, really; it was largely the result of his actions that Europe lost the leadership of world to the US and that the state of Israel was born (which is one of the major reasons for conflicts between muslims and West). Moreover, the words "Hitler" and "Nazi" have the same echo as the words "Satan" and "demon", and the swastica evokes the same response as the pentagram.

Based on this, I have to consider Hitler a religious figure. Hitler and the Nazis have long since ceased having their most importance as real historical figures, and become symbols of evil instead.

Re:Prostitutes?

[aug24]

Just ask yourself this: Did any female, ever, wake up in the morning and think 'Prostitution... that's a good idea'.

Or did each and every single one of them end up in the situation where there was no other choice that they could think of.

Every crack-head on a street corner was once someone's little girl in a party dress, and while they may've made bad choices it isn't OK for you to decide they don't count.

Justin.

Re:Prostitutes?

[Xiaran]

Or did each and every single one of them end up in the situation where there was no other choice that they could think of.

No. I know because I knew someone who worked as a part time hooker to put herself thru university. She had no problems with the idea of having sex for money... admittedly this was in Australia. Wehere is is completely legal. And she was working in a brothel that was run and owned by women. She said she didnt really have to have sex with someone she didnt really want to etc. She claimed it was a lot better than working in a shop... didnt eat nearly as much of her time... she got to study at work when there was nothing else to do. Im not marally condoning this lifestyle. But she was not a messed up drug addict. She just didnt mind and didnt think it was unethical. I respected her right to choose whatever she want to do with her body.

Re:Prostitutes?

[un1xl0ser]

Personally I always razz on my co-workers that the next installment of GTA will be called "The Final Solution". If they really want to push the envelope, they'd do a warcrime/holocaust simulator, and just be done with it. If you fail, you have to hide out in south america.

The defense is that "It's just a game, jeez."

Re:Prostitutes?

[bhiestand]

Just ask yourself this: Did any female, ever, wake up in the morning and think 'Prostitution... that's a good idea'.

Yes, yes they did. Now where the fuck have you been living? I personally know several prostitutes who are doing it to put themselves through college. They work nights, especially weekends, and have their days free for school. And yes, some of them actually like to fuck and enjoy their jobs.

Justifying your vice.

[suso]

I would think that this kind of reasoning would justify murderers to call for a ban on CBS (Crime Broadcasting Station).

Here's to calling the kettle black

[sexyrexy]

Sex workers definitely aren't a bad potential influence on children.

Oh, wait.

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[interiot]

Umm, which is worse for kids, sex (consensual, mutually beneficial) or violence (beating/stabbing/shooting)? Okay, the sex is hinted at in the game, not real, though the real-world sex workers are real. And the violence is simulated, so it's not apples-to-apples.

But still, if it comes down to consensual sex versus beating/killing people, I'd think that the sex would be less harmful to children.

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[chrismcdirty]

Maybe in more civilized countries, but not in the USA. Here, we take pride in glamorizing violence as it contributes nothing at all to society, while degrading the reason that we are all here. After all, it's yucky. And nobody should ever think of it. EVER.

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[luder]

"we take pride in glamorizing violence "

You mean sex, right?

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[Ironsides]

sex (consensual, mutually beneficial) or violence (beating/stabbing/shooting)

I'm guessing you've never heard of this sport called 'boxing' where two fully grown men attempt to beat the shit out of each other for money.

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[Pantero Blanco]

"Maybe in more civilized countries, but not in the USA. Here, we take pride in glamorizing violence as it contributes nothing at all to society, while degrading the reason that we are all here."

What bizarro-land do you live in? The majority of the US seems to glorify both of them. I can certainly walk through the mall and look at posters of all-but-naked women without someone trying to burn them or a guy in a blue butterfly suit jumping in front of me. And violence will be necessary as long as there is _anyone_ willing to use it to their own advantage. Tibet tried pacifism; look where it got them.

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[chrismcdirty]

But look at TV. You can see extreme acts of violence and gore (watch CSI, if only for gore), but most acts of sex are completely removed. Even on CSI, they always have the naughty parts on corpses covered. When I first watched the pilot for Firefly, I was amazed that they had a pseudo-sex-scene. Most likely because in the 23 years I've watched TV, I've never seen anything like that on a network station.

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[stupidfoo]

I've always wanted to be a prostitute. This whole IT thing is just temporary.

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[heinousjay]

It's because simulated sex is boring. People watch porn instead. Much better than the crap you'll get on tv and in movies.

On the other hand, simulated violence is more exciting than the real thing, because we all know no one got hurt.

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[Concern]

Prostitution will always have a special place among crimes in the hearts of law enforcement personel and legislators, since many are customers.

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[DavidTC]

That happens where prostitution is illegal, you dumbass.

It being illegal, it has no child labor laws. Nor does it have worker's comp, or minimum wage.

In addition, people employed in it cannot go to the legal system for crimes committed against them, like assault.

Go find somewhere that prostitution is legal. There are no children employed in the legal industry, and almost no black market at all. It goes from something like 35%(1) of all hookers being underaged to, like, 1% or lower. (Basically, it replaces all the 'looks 20, is actually 14' girls with actual adults. The 1% pedophile market is still there. Although it's much, much harder to find, because if there's a black market, people just ask around. People do not walk into the door of legal brothels and ask where they keep 'The really young ones'.)

Using the abuse of workers in an illegal market as a reason to keep said market illegal is possibly the fucking stupidest thing anyone has ever done. There are only two ways to stop children being exploited in the sex industry. One of them is the same way we keep children out of every other industry in existence, regulation, which requires legality. The other way would be to get rid of the sex industry, which would either involve a magical spell, or a specific surgerical operation on small boys before they hit puberty...

1) Yes, it really is that high in some places. Oh, they look like adults, but looking like an adult female is not that hard for any female that is physically tall enough, with the right makeup, padding, and hair. Guys have a lot of clues that are hard to fake, but women not so much between, say, 14 and 18. (Or maybe the issue is really the age of puberty. Some guys who are 16 can often fake being 21.)

Re:Here's to calling the kettle black

[DavidTC]

Uh, no.

Street pimps often do beat their women, but, as I pointed out, that makes the profession dangerous, not violent. Being a firefighter is not a violent profession, and neither is being a prostitute.

Of course, the only reason that is true is 'slapping someone around a bit' is the only way to enforce contract law in the underworld. The pimp needs some enforcable means of collecting his cut, he can't go to the police or courts.

Women who live in a brothel, OTOH, rarely get injured by the management, because the money goes to the brothel and then they get their cut, so can't be holding out. (Sadly, they are more likely to get injured by a client, because a prostitute who works out of her our house or a motel will call the police if assaulted by a client, or scream and cause others to call the police, whereas a client in a house of prostitution quite rightly assumes they will not want to call the police.)

And call girls have the best of both worlds. They are away from other hookers, so none of them have any qualms about calling the police if assaulted, yet they have rates negotiated over the phone by their employer, so can't be holding out on money, even if they get handed the cash themselves.

But, anyway, high risk of injury in a profession != violence in a profession. A soldier is in a violent profession, a medic in the military is just in a high-risk one.

OTOH, being a pimp is an inherently violent profession, and it's not only towards the women. Pimps are expected to keep their territory free for their women, which requires driving off other women. The violence there is exactly the same as 'drug dealer', which they are in a sense: They must keep their product on the street, and remove everyone else's product, and threaten and eventually injury people who do not pay them money they are owed.

Life (as I learned it from GTA)

[eldavojohn]

So I've got a star on me and I'm just waiting for the heat to melt off me so I pull up alongside this "sex worker." She hops in and I am in serious need after that last shoot out. Do I do anything violent to her? No, I go out to a remote area of the park and when the car starts rocking, I exchange cash for life. Not a bad deal, people exchange money for their health at hospitals everyday.

So now we're done ... what to do? I kind of have two choices:
A. Kill her and take my monies back.
B. Keep her around in the car to do more money exchange.

The way I see it, the game is encouraging me not to harm her because if I do, I'm going to get my monies back but I have to drive all the way back into town and I do not want the po-po on me right now.

Btw, I learned all this like five years ago from this game. Where was this "sex workers group" when the game came out? They're a bit late to stop it from being released.

I like how from TFA:

Though the organization admits to being "adamantly opposed to any and all forms of censorship,"

So let me get this straight ... mammary glands and naked women shouldn't be censored (sales are up for the sex workers!) but violence should be (worker lifespan is down)?

Re:Life (as I learned it from GTA)

[Anonymous Coward]

...mammary glands and naked women shouldn't be censored but violence should be?

That sounds like the difference between European and American censorship. If think we (the EU) have it right on this one. In my ideal world we're all exposed to sex, rather than violence :-)

Re:Life (as I learned it from GTA)

[HiThere]

I don't approve of censorship, but if there is to be such, I'd prefer that it was non-consensual violence that was censored.

Of course, since I don't approve of censorship, they won't ask my opinion.

Re:Life (as I learned it from GTA)

[alex_podam]

And the teen pregnancy rate is higher in the EU. Coincidence? I think not.

Bullshit

Ban the parents then...

[luder]

"They note that the games are a bad influence on children"

And from the article:

"SWOP is calling "on all parents and all gamers to boycott Grand Theft Auto.""

GTA is rated Mature +17, how are children supposed to be able to play the game? Yell at the parents who let them play violent games...

Re:Ban the parents then...

[ClamIAm]

This is why I hate seeing videogames (and other media) in the news. Those who have no clue about the subject claim something is horrible and/or should be banned because of their flawed ideas about it.

Regarding GTA specifically, have they looked at the game at all? It is a game named after a crime, in which you play a gangster. It carries prominent notices on all packaging (and all advertisements) that it is not for children. Any parents who allow their children to play this game are (in my opinion) guilty of negligence.

Yes, there are corner cases, such as kids finding the game at their uncle's house while the adults are in another room, or kids who are close to being "adults" and whose parents know that their kids are well-adjusted, but this is not what I'm referring to.

Re:Ban the parents then...

[jotok]

Those who have no clue about the subject claim something is horrible and/or should be banned because of their flawed ideas about it.

Isn't it a bunch of prostitutes doing the protests? Don't you think they would have some experience with exploitation and violence?

Wait, isn't prostitution illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

So we're getting calls to ban a form of entertainment... from the purveyors of a widely banned form of entertainment.

Something about glass houses comes to mind here.

Re:Wait, isn't prostitution illegal?

[Ironsides]

Nevada is the only state that has legalized Prostitution and even then only in certain counties. GOOGLE

Re:Wait, isn't prostitution illegal?

[venicebeach]

What's always seemed strange to me is that prostitution is illegal unless you film it.

In other words, I can pay a woman to have sex with me if she is an actor in my porn film. I just can't do it for my own private pleasure, I have to be making something for others to see. Bizarre.

Re:Wait, isn't prostitution illegal?

[WhiteWolf666]

Wow.... this is a surprisingly good idea.

"Make your own private sex film! Master copy of the tape handed to you after the shoot! Select from the following 50 women!"

This is worth more thought. I'm going to investigate the legality of that. This would be an absolutely HUGE moneymaker for escort services; they could literally legitimize their operations overnight.

At the same time, it is most likely a loophole that could be closed overnight. I wonder if there is some kind of state-by-state pornographer "licensing" scheme... Hm....

Re:Wait, isn't prostitution illegal?

[rograndom]

What's always seemed strange to me is that prostitution is illegal unless you film it.

In other words, I can pay a woman to have sex with me if she is an actor in my porn film. I just can't do it for my own private pleasure, I have to be making something for others to see. Bizarre. Ah, but you're not paying for sex. You're paying for her time as an actress. If she happens to want to have sex with you then that is in no way related to her pay for the day. If she doesn't want to have sex with you, well, she probably won't be getting much work anymore.

This is the same reason why you see ads for "Escort Services" and not for "Hookers". You're buying time, not sex.

Why haven't police done the same?

[merreborn]

There's at least as much cop killing in GTA as there is ho slaughtering.

Re:Why haven't police done the same?

[biocute]

I think that's because cops in the game can fight back, and sometimes they win. If they don't win, they send out FBI, or even military to eventually kill the player.

What can prostitutes in the game do besides maybe running away from the player? GTA should include prostitutes hitting the player violently with their handbags, or kicking the player in the nuts.

Re:Heh

[Tweekster]

and what is immoral? about selling sex for money? it seems like a rather honest exchange

They've got it backwards

[szembek]

I think they're looking at this all wrong. In GTA a prostitute makes your health improve, while in real life I would say your chances of getting syphilis are much higher than of that bullet wound in your leg healing after a visit with a hooker. With this logic they should look forward to increased business!

In other news...

[Godai]

...drug dealers, car thieves & other criminals are suing Hollywood because they claim movies encourage people to dress up like spiders and beat them up.

In related news, the Plate Glass Association of America (PGAA) is contemplating class action suits of their own, citing numerous examples of films, games & other media where violence is perpetrated on -- or more commonly through -- their members.

Re:Sex Workers...

[geniusj]

Prostitution is illegal on a state-by-state basis. It is not illegal in Nevada, I'm not sure if there's anywhere else where that's the case..

How's Jack going to react?

[JoeLinux]

Disclaimer: I am a Christian. However, Jack Thompson is of the notorious southern-baptist style bible-thumping crowd. This places him on the same side as prostitutes. I can't WAIT for someone to point this out to him.

We should have a slogan:

"Jack Thompson: Working with the street-walkers to keep your kids safe"
"No-body has their pulse on the average American cum-catcher like Jack"

I an just see the trials on CourtTV now

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Whore: "I promise to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth."

Attorney: "Are you a prostitute?"

Whore: "Yes, I am" ...

CNN's Anderson Cooper: "And in today's news, the 1000th prostitute was thrown in jail for admitting they were in the illegal sex trade. Thousands more are lining up around the block to give their testimony to the supreme court...."

Re:I an just see the trials on CourtTV now

[tomjen]

Whore with brains: "I plead the fith"
Attorney: "Oh shit"

Re:I an just see the trials on CourtTV now

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

It would be more apt to say it's illegal everywhere except Nevada then to say it's legal if you live in any state as long as that state is Nevada.

I disagree. Given there is no federal law banning it, prostitution is a inclusively legal in the US. That is to say, if there is a territory not governed by any particular state law that bans it then prostitution is legal in that jurisdiction.

If you're a prostitute in America more than likely you are engaging in prostitution illegally.

But if you're a member of an official organization called "Sex workers of America" the chances are you're not openly breaking any law, whether you're are a porn star or a legal prostitute. Sure maybe some of those people do break laws, but that has no bearing on their right to protest something.

Re:I an just see the trials on CourtTV now

[Anonymous Coward]

Attorney: "Are you a prostitute?"

Whore: "Yes, I am" ...

Attorney: "House or Senate?"

Re:I an just see the trials on CourtTV now

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Well, thank god she didn't spell it correctly.

Re:Makes sense...

[Tackhead]

> Pot, meet Kettle.

Oh, great. You had to bring the NORML folks into it...

Title of this article is misleading

[bigdavex]

They aren't calling for a ban. They think the game is a bad thing and want to discourage parents from allowing their children to play.

Ban means "to prohibit especially by legal means" (Merriam-Webster).

They're exercising a free speech right, not trying to infringe on others'.

Disappointed with Link...

[Jamil Karim]

On the Sex Workers Outreach Project homepage, I clicked on "Calendar", but all I got was a list of upcoming events... =(

Of all the claims...

[rAiNsT0rm]

This one makes the most sense. I've heard my share of B.S. "videogames made me do it" stories over the years, but this one has the most legitimate basis of them all. It stands to reason that some frat boy who is majorly into his GTA, either tries to treat a prostitute or a dancer in a similar manner because it is seen and portrayed as a given that you smack a ho. It really does promote the behavior and I could see the point.

I know it all seems silly, prostitutes complaining and drawing parallels from a video game to real violence. But in reality prostitues are pretty much an accepted thing in America (even though many would have you believe otherwise) and after reading a book a while back about the Mustang Ranch in Vegas, I have a whole new outlook on them and their trade. The knee jerk reaction is to laugh it off, but I truly believe this compalint is the most valid yet.

Johns

[wk633]

Lots of comments on here about pot and kettle and prostitution being illegal and imoral.

Personally, I can't stand people who put down sex trade workers, but don't save any derrision for the Johns. If you think prostitutes are low-lifes, then quit paying them.

Re:Johns

[DaveV1.0]

Do you think geeks will really give up their best chance to get laid?

Personally, I say quit with the double standard and legalize it.

Re:Johns

[wk633]

I'm saying that people who demonize hookers but don't have anything bad to say about Johns are hypocrits.

I feel sorry for hookers more than anything. It's pretty low on the scale of desirable jobs. I don't think prostitution should be encouraged by any means. Accepted, well, anything that makes it safer would probably be a good idea. A lot of times making things illegal just pushes them underground. And no, I don't think 'accepted' equals 'encouraged'. For example: Kids will have sex. Give them condoms, and teach them about the dangers of sex too early.

No, I've never used the services of a prostitute, paid or otherwise.

Re:Heh

[insertwackynamehere]

a lot of you are talking about it in a black and white view from your ivory towers. It doesnt matter where morality comes in, the simple fact remains that prostitution is NOT equatable to sex or nudity because prostitution is done when someone has nothing else they can do. It doesnt matter whether its immoral or not, thats a nonissue, the point is you cant think of it as just having sex for money because its not that simple, and that is a very juvenile and simplistic view to have.

Strange bedfellows

[hal2814]

Prostitutes and religious zealots are both against the GTA series. What stange bedfellows...

Re:Strange bedfellows

[British]

I'm just waiting for a group of drug dealers to protest GTA.

Yes, we have everyone from all walks of life protesting GTA. All the good & bad people(depending on your perspective) are putting aside their differences to stop GTA. GTA is helping unite the world. Pimps will stop slapping their hoes, drug dealers will stop killing deadbeat buyers and Hatians will stop, um, whatever Hatians do for a moment to protest a freakin' video game.

Before GTA, wow, we were so blind to the social problems in the world. We only needed a video game to finally reflect it!

Re:Sex Workers...

[Khyber]

Prostitution isn't illegal in Nashville, either, so I guess that means it's legal in Tennessee. They do have to be licensed hookers, though.

show me

[Darth_brooks]

Show me the mission in any of the GTA series that requires you to beat, kill, or otherwise be violent towards a prostitute. I've finished the storylines in all three of the PS2 versions, I wasted many an hour playing the PC version of the original, but never got a shot at GTA2.

So where's the "Kill rape and murder all the hookers" mission?

Re:Heh

[kalirion]

No, the state protects you from those who would exploit you, not from yourself. There should be a way to protect people from exploitation while still allowing them to do whatever the fuck they want to to their bodies, as long as they're of sound mind and there's no coersion involved.

And why is non-simulated porn allowed while prostitution isn't (in most states of the U.S. I mean)? It's all sex for money, right?

Re:Joke?

[CowsAnonymous]

> Is this a joke? Sex Workers Outreach Project?!?

No, it's not. And if you read their website, you'd see why it's not. For one thing, they have a goal for the decriminaliztion for the consensual sex industry, among other things (such as laws to help protect prostitutes). What more they outline their motives in a clear way, showing that through reform prostitutes can be helped rather than left to fend for themselves.

It's an intersting debate for where to draw the line between what laws are considered ethical. It's common for playing video games to be ethical, although sometimes they're content is not, but in the end they're legal. Murder is considered unethical, so it's illegal. Prostitiution is a strange one: prostitutes give their consent, so realistically they are not being harmed since they have the option of avoiding the situation if proper precautions are taken. Someone might argue that by consenting they are harming themselves, which is another matter all together, but you can say the same for tobacco.

Their members have a different set of morals, and believe that their freedoms as citizens are being restricted by the morals of others. You don't have to agree with them, but at least they're being logical about it.

Although I do see the humor in the irony in trying to get parents who probably view them as the lowest human lifeform to join their cause against the game. That's just silly.

RTFA, not the headlines.

[cduffy]

They're condemning the game, but not calling for a ban.

Re:Heh

[Bazzalisk]

people capable of rational decisions

Are quite hard to find.

The new rallying cry...

[TiggertheMad]

Won't someone please think of the prostitutes!

Re:The new rallying cry...

[vsprintf]

Won't someone please think of the prostitutes!

And, according to the blurb, won't someone please think of all those children who are allowed to play MATURE-ONLY games being taught to . . . disrespect prostitutes . . . whoa, that's kinky in some weird sense. So, we could conclude that the widespread use of GTA by minors is actually a planned conspiracy by the morally righteous to stop prostitution, while their (Thompson) tools decry the situation. And finally, the difference between good and evil is obvious to all.

(Well, it's not all that obvious to me, but Beyond Good & Evil was a really good game. :)

Re:Heh

[slashdotnickname]

Yeah, let's all take advice on morality from hookers...

I'd be more suspicious of people who base their morality on hocus-pocus religious mythology.

There's nothing immoral about a consentual agreement between adults.

Re:Heh

[Headcase88]

More like dating. Except it's really more presents rather than money in exchange for sex. A timely article really *coughvalentinesdaycough*.

And as for this story, it's is a real "me too" kind of charge, politicians, religious groups, etc are all over GTA so why don't we bitch about it too? There is no hooker rape in the game (you pay) and you can kill anyone in San Andreas. It would be giving them special treatment if you couldn't kill them...

Okay actually Gamespot says there is one allusion to rape in the storyline, so fair is fair. Anyone that remembers this allusion and would care to say whether it glorified the rape?

You're already selling yourself

[tengu1sd]

I've always wanted to be a prostitute. This whole IT thing is just temporary.

Let's see, hookers sell a few hours of their time, perform questionable acts for money, and in the ideal situation, make you feel like you'r the most important part of their day. Tries to avoid virus and worm outbreaks with best practices.

System admin, sells all of his or her time, performs questionable acts for money. May try to make his customers happy. Tries to avoid virus and worm outbreaks with best practices. Demanding customers may make this difficult.

Consultant. See hooker.

All in all, a hooker has better pay scale, less hours, and a chance to negotiate a better working environment. Also less likely to be outsourced.

Re:You're already selling yourself

[spac3manspiff]

Both are hands-on jobs..

Re:You're already selling yourself

[cloak42]

All in all, a hooker has better pay scale, less hours, and a chance to negotiate a better working environment. Also less likely to be outsourced.

Plus there's actually the occasional orgasm for a hooker. When was the last time you were able to come while adding a rule to your firewall?

Re:You're already selling yourself

[karlto]

Also less likely to be outsourced.

I can't say that I've worked at many places with an in-house hooker...

Re:You're already selling yourself

[really?]

This morning.

Re:You're already selling yourself

[raddan]

When was the last time you were able to come while adding a rule to your firewall?

You're obviously not using pf!

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

At least he gets sex in return from the prostitute. Most supposedly 'god fearing' people I know would clean out his ATM account and not even give him a reacharound.

In other news...

[east coast]

The heroin lobby is calling for a boycott of the latest SWAT video game claiming that it gives them a bad name and portrays them as little more than common thugs who exploit the addicted.

Own Goal

[sesshomaru]

To use a term from football or soccer as we call it in the states, this is an "own goal." To quote SWOP:

Since the video game Grand Theft Auto accrues points to players for the depiction of the rape and murder of prostitutes, SWOP-USA calls on all parents and all gamers to boycott Grand Theft Auto.

Now, I've only played Vice City but it seems to me that this does not resemble, at all, what happens in that game. If you want a health boost, you drive slowly around street walkers until one gets into your car. Then you drive to a secluded spot, and your health increases as your money goes down. Now, you can murder anyone, as far as I can tell, in Vice City. I can remember chaisawing cops and random people in a mall one night when I was bored. But rape? That doesn't happen, and most of the time randomly murdering anyone, including prostitutes, is a bad idea.

The reason why so many people have a problem with GTA is because it treats sex with prostitutes as both no big deal and as generally beneficial. Which would tend to make people see it as something that shouldn't be illegal. Hence lies (about rape) and exaggerations (you get points for killing prostitutes, while killing a prostitute in GTA may be beneficial it also carries in game risks which may make it detrimental).

But the goal of NIMF isn't, for example, to make prostitutes the one class of person in the game who are invulnerable, it is to remove them from the game completely. Removing the ability to portray prostitutes in a game removes the ability to portray them positively.

This is actually very sad, because I imagine the guys at Rockstar North are in favor of decriminalization and also against the murder or maltreatment of prostitutes, so their opinion would be inline with SWOP-USA. (I come to this conclusion from the political content of the game, the hypocracy of right wing congressman Shrub and his mistress porn star Candy Suxxx for example.)

Dangerous argument

[jd]

The same applies to murder. It's just usually* called "justifiable homicide" or "capital punishment". ("Reasonable force" is one thing, but Virginia permits shooting someone in the back if they once posed a threat in the past and I think Texas now allows you to kill someone if there's any chance they could pose a threat in the future.)

*This depends on the country and the context. Somalia has no Government to speak of and therefore nobody to define such terms. With assassination considered a legitimate tool in the war on terror, the boundaries are getting fuzzy even when stable political systems exist.

Yes, this is relevant, as we are looking here at whether something is considered by a given country to be a serious crime or even a crime at all. If there are countries where prostitution is a serious crime and murder is acceptable, then do you look at their standards for so judging, or go by your own?

I'm not condoning or condemning anything here, I'm merely pointing out that it's never been clear-cut. What is "serious" is simply too subjective and varies far too much between individuals, never mind countries.

As far as sex workers are concerned, my only personal opinion is that there exists no way of identifying and assisting abuse victims who drift into the trade, those abused within it, modern slaves, anyone acting under duress for any other reason, etc. Nor is any serious effort made to deal with those involved in abuse, slavery, etc.

Changing laws that are highly emotionally charged is difficult and likely to be infrequent. So it is vitally important that if/when they are changed, they are changed in a way that provides the greatest benefit for the longest time. I am not convinced that lobbyists are the best ones to explain benefits and I'm not convinced that anyone else has identified the risks - present or future.

The status quo sucks (bad choice of words for this topic, but who cares?) but every alternative I've ever heard seems infinitely worse and far more prone to bring about the very problems that are supposed to be being cured, especially as the real problems seem to be largely being ignored.

Deal with the serious stuff first and then worry about the details. Otherwise it is just vote-trawling and people-pleasing.

Re:Joke?

[radish]

So how do the $1000/hour callgirls fit into your world view? They sure aren't short of a nickel, they probably make more than you or I. Equating all prostitutes with street walking crack whores is a gross over simplification of a complex situation. Whilst I have no desire to see people do unpleasant & dangerous work (of any kind) simply to make ends meet I also don't see what business it is of mine to tell someone what they can and can't do behind closed doors, given that no one else is being harmed. There are plenty of intelligent, educated, sane people working as prostitutes all over the world, and they do it because they want to not because they have to. More power to them.

Stage a Protest!

[Mazda6s]

Chant: "Hell no! We won't blow!" *Shamefully stolen from a co-worker*

Criminals are not happy either.

[blanks]

Gamespot has an article about an association of Criminals protesting the GTA games. Apparently, the Criminals of the Criminals Outreach Project aren't too happy about their ingame counterparts being treated violently in the GTA games. They note that the games are a bad influence on children, and might encourage rape and violent behavior towards Criminals in real life."

Who's going to complain next? Crack dealers?

[skids]

Don't look for logic in this.

The point these folks seem to be missing is that you can beat up any random pedestrian in GTA3SA. If you choose to do so to a prostitute, that came from you, not from the game -- it was your choice. (Well, they do have more cash to take, but so do drug dealers. Both tend to be armed, but the only one you're encouraged to wax are the crack dealers.)

How about a trade-in program?

[realmolo]

You know, like "guns for toys"?

Except it will be "GTA for BJs".

Re:Prostitue Rape Victims

[mpathetiq]

I'm guessing very. What happens when a boxer gets attacked?

Re:Prostitue Rape Victims

[plate of felt]

extremely. non-consentual is still non-consentual.

Headline incorrect

[JoshRazz]

If you actually look at the SWOP website (http://www.swop-usa.org/ they're not calling for a ban or any kind of censorship. They're calling for people to vote with their dollars. That's a principled stand, given that they're not pro-censorship otherwise.

Re:Prostitutes.... not a lower form of life

[cnerd2025]

They're just people like the rest of us who've chosen a particular profession.

It is even more sobering to consider that many prostitutes are simply trying to pay the bills and have no way out. Many prostitutes, if not all, don't like their "service", but they do it because it's a way to make money.

You've got bigger problems

[artoo]

You've got bigger problems than worrying about legalities if the woman you're having sex with is an ACTOR in your film...unless of course your film is "Best of Both Worlds".

And let's not forget...

[Moraelin]

And let's not forget that:

- when a hooker's boss (err, pimp) just wants to ride someone's butt to vent frustration or boredom, chances are he won't have the stamina to ride for hours. IT bosses can keep at it 8 hours in a row (preferrably starting in the afternoon)

- a hooker's client probably knows already what he wants or can make up his mind in a reasonable time. I don't expect anyone spent _months_ discussing whether he wants a blow-job or sex, or called a year worth of meetings to decide if he wants to be on top or underneath, just to avoid the responsibility of making a decision. (In a project I've been in, a PHB needed a year to decide whether he wants his reports printed landscape or portrait by default, and wouldn't accept the program until it printed by default in his orientation-of-the-day. In a program which let him do both already, _and_ came with a report editor so he could rearrange them as he flippin' sees fit anyway.)

- the hooker doesn't have to spend a lot of time in team-building/motivational/etc meetings (if you're a manager, don't kid yourself: you probably don't have the charisma for this. Boring 20 people to death with platitudes copied from a book does _not_ make them feel more motivated. Verbal masturbation about how great a leader you are, even less so, and it probably means you aren't), status report meetings, meetings where the boss is just bored and wants to talk about his vacation, and responsibility-avoiding meetings which are there only so we all talked about it (and had our feedback ignored) so noone is personally responsible for the decision... or lack thereof

- the hooker doesn't have to be diplomatic about it when someone tries to score some free sex (a la the "hey, can you come over and fix my computer/network/printer/etc for free?" in IT). Everyone can understand that a hooker does it for money, and won't turn deeply hurt and hostile when she does ask for money. But as an IT geek everyone assumes that by definition you have no life and would probably just sit there bored, staring at the walls, if people didn't call you to give you a virused computer to work on

- ditto when someone tries to get a free change-request disguised as "uh, I may have asked for a hand-job, and paid for a hand-job, but what I had in mind was really a blow-job. So now it's your fault for not giving me what I wanted, and you must give it to me for free." (I'm sure you had an idiot client like that by now if you're a programmer.)

- ditto when someone thinks he's so smart if he asks for "just a demo", and then tries to squeeze the final product functionality into the demo to avoid paying. I'm sure if you tried telling a hooker that you just want to see her naked to know what you're paying for, and then tried to change that little by little into being free sex, you'd get laughed at and told to fork over the cash.

- As a hooker you're paid if you do more work in a day, and noone will act as if it's your sacred duty to work an extra 4 to 8 hours a day for free, just to show loyalty and commitment to the company

- For that matter, as a hooker it's clear who brings in more money and who hasn't done any work in 3 years straight (cue the "you IT guys just cost us money" or "bah, we did just as well back in the days of typewriters and filing cabinets" comments, or Wally people making a living just with show-business for the boss's benefit, but with exactly zero job-related skill or productivity)

Etc.

All in all, I suspect the hooker has the more dignified job.

In Soul Reaver.....

[WhiteWolf666]

You go around, as the angle of death, wiping out communities of humans and vampires alike.

An evil god raises you from the dead to wipe the earth clean. Does this teach children something they shouldn't be learning?

Or in other news, movies about drug dealing often glorify (and rightly so) the lives of drug dealers, because they often have exciting lives. Does this teach children something they shouldn't be learning?

Even worse, watching politicians on TV lie about corruption, sex, drugs, drinking and influence teaches children how to use a silver tongue. Does this teach them something they shouldn't be learning?

Lack of information, lack of exposure, lack of knowledge never saved anyone. Ignorance is never bliss; and the only way you can confront hatred, violence, and deception is head on. "Saving" your children from these things only ensures that when they encounter them in 'the real world' they'll get hoodwinked, abused, or assaulted. Better to teach them, than to let them learn themselves.

This doesn't necessarily mean you should hand your kids GTA and tell 'em to go at it. But perhaps you should sit down and play it with them(assuming they have reached the age of reason (determining this is left as an exercise to the reader)), and stress that its a fun game, but its _fantasy_, and _dark_ fantasy at that. Parenting 101.

*shrug*. Or maybe your supposed to keep your kids in a pink room till they reached the age of 18, and then let them into the world, with no knowledge at all, with the sound assurance that all your prayer from 0-18 will encourage God to watch over them in their ignorance.....

*shrug*.