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DRM Reduces Battery Life

gr8_phk writes "An interesting article over at C|Net claims that playing DRMed music can reduce battery life up to 25 percent. Yet another reason to stick with plain old MP3 files." From the article: "Those who belong to subscription services such as Napster or Rhapsody have it worse. Music rented from these services arrive in the WMA DRM 10 format, and it takes extra processing power to ensure that the licenses making the tracks work are still valid and match up to the device itself. Heavy DRM not only slows down an MP3 player but also sucks the very life out of them."

296 comments

  1. More reasons DRM sucks.. by GillBates0 · · Score: 5, Funny
    In addition to sucking the life out of batteries, DRM has been recently found to cause cancer, kill puppies and make Baby Jesus cry.

    More on these exciting discoveries at 11 (TM).

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
    1. Re:More reasons DRM sucks.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anything that makes baby Jesus cry is a positive in my book. Yay DRM! :)

    2. Re:More reasons DRM sucks.. by trparky · · Score: 1

      Guys, like it or not, DRM is here to stay. Get used to it. I have.

      No, that doesn't mean I like it, but I have accepted it. It is a necessary evil.

    3. Re:More reasons DRM sucks.. by Alien+Being · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The RIAA, the MPAA and you say that it's necessary. But no matter how many times you say it, millions of us remain unconvinced.

      You can stick your head in the sand if you want, but some of us won't "get used to it". We'll continue to protest against it. We'll disclose the dirty little secrets that the Sonys of this world don't want people to know. We'll keep the DRM vendors honest.

      Eventually we'll win, because once most people understand how DRM really affects them, they'll rule with their dollars. Circuit City's DIVX is a good example. I know several people who steered clear of those players once they had heard the arguments against them.

    4. Re:More reasons DRM sucks.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've also conducted a similar test and was totally shocked with the results:

      On my laptop, I discovered that playing an uncompressed video file of 120*160 resolution extended battery life tremendously compared to when I was playing a compressed 2048*1600 highly compressed file from a compressed hardisk.

      Film at 11

    5. Re:More reasons DRM sucks.. by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....Guys, like it or not, DRM is here to stay. Get used to it. I have......

      I wouldn't be so sure about that. The main reason that there has not been an outcry against DRM loud enough to get Congress to kill it and the DMCA with it, is because it hasn't really affected the millions of consumers in a bad enough way. The huge majority sees the iPod/iTunes DRM as relatively benign, if they notice it at all, since it allows most consumers to do what they want with their music. The article listed only an 8% loss of battery life due to DRM for iPods, which again isn't a big deal for most consumers. The only place there is ever an outcry against DRM is on slashdot and other techie sites.

      Most consumers don't even realize that DVDs are encrypted. All they do is pop in a bought or rented DVD into their players and if it plays, that's all they care about. They have no interest in copying the movie to their laptop or Linux computers so they can watch it without having the actual DVD with them.

      If the content providers ever make the mistake of instituting really draconian DRM that severely restricts what most users want to do, or like Sony's infamous rootkit does real damage to user equipment, DRM will either be outlawed or become such an impediment to sales that the industry will drop all DRM like a hot potato.

      --
      All theory is gray
    6. Re:More reasons DRM sucks.. by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Guys, like it or not, DRM is here to stay. Get used to it. I have.

      Guys, like it or not, slavery is here to stay. Get used to it. I have.

      Guys, like it or not, witch burning is here to stay. Get used to it. I have.

      Guys, like it or not, the Spanish Inquisition is here to stay. Get used to it. I have.

      Guys, like it or not, absolute monarchy is here to stay. Get used to it. I have.

      Bad things backed by bad people are here to stay only as long as people accept them. When they are no longer accepted, they get booted out. Nothing made by man lasts forever, and bad ideas are no exception.

      No, that doesn't mean I like it, but I have accepted it. It is a necessary evil.

      No it isn't. It is not neccessary for anything except for big media companies profits and control. I don't have to accept it, and neither does anyone else. Just download a P2P client - my favorite is GTK-Gnutella - and start getting stuff free from DRM.

      After all, what obligation do I owe for Mickey Mouse Protection Racket, also known as Disney ? Especially since most of Disneys movies are copies of earlier works - Snow White, Peter Pan, Steamboat Willie...

      Fight for freedom: Pirate !

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  2. Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article compares MP3 @ 128kbps, with WMA9 @ 192kbps and WMA10 DRM. Spot the flaw in the methodology yet?

    1. Re:Wrong! by dsanfte · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Good point, they should have compared WMA and WMA-DRM of equal bitrates.

      --
      occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
    2. Re:Wrong! by Quebec · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Actually, the main reason why WMAs are used is because of the DRMs, so it is still true to say that DRMs cause battery life to shorten.

    3. Re:Wrong! by babbling · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They used WMA of a higher bitrate than the non-DRM file!

      I'm no fan of DRM, but this appears to be FUD. They should have used a WMA with DRM and a WMA without DRM, both of the same bitrate. That would be a proper comparison.

    4. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, but the only real reason WMA and AAC exist is so that Microsoft and Apple can slap DRM on people's beloved MP3s.

      bitrates, yeah, that should've been more controlled, but since DRM == WMA and AAC, DRM still sucks -- battery life and all.

    5. Re:Wrong! by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the other hand, this is a good comparison between a "typical MP3 downloaded illegally from a P2P service" and a "typical DRM-infected WMA bought at a legal online store."

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    6. Re:Wrong! by Kohath · · Score: 5, Funny

      You people with your facts and scientific methods.

      You must be a DRM supporter. We don't cotton ta that 'round these parts. Are you on the payroll of a record company?

      I also suspect you may weigh the same as a duck.

    7. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?

    8. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Higher bitrate formats use less compression, and take less CPU power to decompress. This is why MP3 players on a 25MHz 68040 can easily decompress 256kbps MP3s realtime, begin to have trouble with 192kbps ones but struggle to produce intelligible audio from a 128kbps mp3.

      WMA did not lose out because it was 192kbps, it benefited from that fact; It had every advantage given to it and STILL the DRM killed battery life by unnecessarily using the CPU.

    9. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'm no fan of DRM, but this appears to be FUD. They should have used a WMA with DRM and a WMA without DRM, both of the same bitrate. That would be a proper comparison.

      But... then DRM wouldn't appear to suck, which is the whole point of this popular issue.

      Or worse, imagine they'd discovered that DRM actually makes the batteries run longer! (oh, that would've been scarry!).

    10. Re:Wrong! by Toraz+Chryx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      higher bitrate files are larger ergo the disk will be spun up more often, using more power...

    11. Re:Wrong! by ad0gg · · Score: 5, Interesting

      AAC,WMA,Vorbis from everything i read use more CPU time to decode then a mp3 track. They also have smaller file size when it comes to the same quality. 128 AAC(or is it 160 i don't remember) itune track sounds a lot better than a 128 bit mp3.

      --

      Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

    12. Re:Wrong! by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      Ah but you see, the DRM makes it so you can't pick the bitrate, nor the format. So while the article is FUD, when it finally comes down to it and you want to listen to music on your player... the article still sheds light on what you should do.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    13. Re:Wrong! by babbling · · Score: 1

      DRM sucks enough due to all of the real problems with it where you can't use the file on any device you want. We don't need to spread FUD about it decreasing battery life.

    14. Re:Wrong! by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      So then, go ahead and buy your DRM-encumbered songs and archive them all to a CD or DVD.
      Store the disk with those originals in a safe place, then go make backups of those stored songs by downloading non-DRMed versions from the P2P service of your choice.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    15. Re:Wrong! by daikokatana · · Score: 1
      While I do agree that this is indeed a good comparison between a typical P2P and a typical DRM song, couldn't they have used the same bitrate for both?

      I still buy the occasional CD and have never bought DRM music online - but isn't it possible to choose the bitrate at some stores?

      If so, it would have made more sense IMO to take one song from both sides in bitrate 128k for example, AND one in 192k and do the comparison for both sets.

      Even if the test is 100% valid, doing it this way will at least raise questions - as it turns out it already did.

      --
      http://jcsnippets.atspace.com/ - a collection of Java & C# snippets
    16. Re:Wrong! by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      I'm gonna take a wild guess that most store-bought WMAs are 192k, and that that's why they picked that bitrate.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    17. Re:Wrong! by babbling · · Score: 1

      Why do all those steps when I can just do only the last one and have the songs I wanted? It's dishonest, but I did want to do the right thing in the first place. Instead of assisting me in doing the right thing, the music industry only wants to sell me inferior DRM files.

      Screw that.

    18. Re:Wrong! by oedneil · · Score: 0

      I agree. In my past two Rio MP3 players (one flash and one hard disk-based), WMA files (without DRM) significantly decreased battery life anyhow, compared to MP3. Unfair comparison.

    19. Re:Wrong! by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      I was simply pointing out an "idealized" solution for those who insist on following the letter of the law (or the RIAA's claims and terms) no matter ridiculous they are.

      Personally, I believe that customers have a right to acquire backups of any music that they have legally purchased at any time without having to buy it again and to hell with what the RIAA has to say about it as long as you can prove that you have an original purchased recording of said piece. And there are plenty of inexpensive sources to get those originals in whatever format. Used CDs, tapes, and records are still perfectly legal to buy and sell.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    20. Re:Wrong! by jxyama · · Score: 1

      No, that would be the wrong way to summarize it since it implies DRM still has something to do with the battery life. The correct conclusion is that protected online music is typically sold with a higher bitrate which tends to reduce the battery life.

    21. Re:Wrong! by daikokatana · · Score: 1
      Well, if your guess is correct (which I suspect it is), they still could have used a 192k P2P sample to do their test.

      Like I said before - leaving factors like this one in a test is just asking for reactions about the validity of the test. If you're comparing the maximum speed of two cars, one homebuilt (kitcar) the other a factory model, are you going to use models where one has almost twice the horsepower of the other?

      --
      http://jcsnippets.atspace.com/ - a collection of Java & C# snippets
    22. Re:Wrong! by RiffRafff · · Score: 1

      Granted, but if you were a record company, which would you be more concerned about protecting? 128K files or 192K files?

      --
      "I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
    23. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This article only sheds light on what you should do if you're willing to settle for 128kbps MP3. Most people are not. The battery drain could be due to more CPU intensive codecs, or the hard disk being hit more while loading larger, higher bitrate tracks. Battery drain could also be different across different players, due to different hardware.

      In other words, there is almost next to zero useful information in this article, except to say that battery life will be less than what the manufacturer advertises under what many consider normal use. Big surprise.

    24. Re:Wrong! by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Let's assume that a higher bitrate audio stream uses the batteries for longer, this is far from certain. Let's further assume that WMV inherently drains the battery quicker than the average MP3 implementation.

      The comparison is still fair in the sense is that the DRM makes it impossible to reduce the bitrate or change the file format without defeating the DRM. With the non-DRMed content, the user would be free to reduce the bitrate or switch file formats in order to lengthen battery life, if it really helped. Therefore, this comparison accurately presents some differences between DRMed and non-DRMed content.

      There is a problem, however... WMV is not the only DRMed format, and DRMed content may be available in different bitrates. Therefore an accurate manner of representing the comparison would be to say: "Playing a DRM'ed WMV file consumed player batteries more quickly than playing an on-DRM'ed MP3 file at a lower bitrate."

      This is not to say that all DRM implementations inherently involve power consumption than all non-DRM implementations. This is more a question of decoder efficiency.

      Logically, if you compare two decoders, both as efficient as possible, the DRM decryption operations being required to read content from the DRMed file, using strong cryptography, and the only characteristic difference between the DRM-ed format and the non-DRMed file and format being that the DRMed one uses encryption (and perhaps has a 1-bit flag set to an opposite value), then the DRMed version must require at least as much power.

      ... Because of the very fact that the player for DRMed content consists of the same components and software as the one for non-DRMEd content, PLUS additional components and software for performing the decryption.

      In light of that, one must admit that to say that media files utilizing DRM require more power to decode and playback, is about like saying "The sky is blue"; saying DRMed WMV utilizes more power than non-DRMed MP3 is like "The grass is green."

      And the natural conclusion we wind up with is "The sky is blue, because the grass is green"

      In other words, the method may be faulty, but the conclusion is undeniably much more likely than not :)

    25. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're positing on friday night on st patricks day

      go outside virgin
      no one cares about your 'fight'

    26. Re:Wrong! by X0563511 · · Score: 1
      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    27. Re:Wrong! by stebe · · Score: 1

      I think FLAC files chew up more drive space than either MP3s or AACs, making them less than ideal for loading onto portable devices, where capacity is presumably an issue. Assuming DRM'ed files are larger than otherwise equivalent non-DRMed files, the need for extra storage capacity could be considered another knock against DRM on portable devices.

    28. Re:Wrong! by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 1

      With the way the music industry and scene works, its more like

      Download .ADVANCED. Listen to it for a few weeks, get tired of it.
      Get the .RETAIL on tuesday, note that its still not in your local stores.
      Finally find a copy overpriced at best buy around the time the first single starts getting big. Debate buying it, realise you're already tired of the music since you've listened to it for well over a month now, and just keep what you have.

      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
    29. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your conclusion may be true but without quantification of the effect of DRM it is also meaningless. DRM may only add 0.001% overhead to the process, and the other 19.99% is just the cost of hitting the hard disk for a larger, higher bit-rate file, and more expensive decoding for a different format.

    30. Re:Wrong! by Ugly+American · · Score: 1

      FLAC files take up quite a bit more hard drive real estate; 20-30 Mb each from what I remember.

      --
      For sale: one sig space, gently used. Inquire for details.
    31. Re:Wrong! by ClamIAm · · Score: 1
      They also have smaller file size [compared to MP3] when it comes to the same quality.

      This isn't exactly true. You might want to dig up some of the listening tests on this site.

      I'll spoil it for you here anyway: there really isn't a clear winner. Depending on when the test was done and what bitrates they were looking at, different codecs come out on top. LAME was the king for a long time, but I believe Vorbis has surpassed it in most circumstances (as has Apple's AAC in a few). Basically, different codecs/encoders leapfrog each other. Vorbis hackers come out of the woodwork and start distributing patches that eventually get included in the official Xiph tree. LAME seems to always be under development, and there are efforts beginning to write version 4 which will de-gunk and modularise the source. As for Apple/MS/Nero, I don't know how much they improve their codecs, although I know AAC has improved since release.

    32. Re:Wrong! by plastik55 · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but the audio files I download from P2P usually come in higher bitrates than ones I get from online stores.

      --

      I have a positive modifier on Troll. When I mod someone Troll their karma should go UP!

    33. Re:Wrong! by TheDugong · · Score: 2, Informative

      3287 flac files on my PC.
      Avg size 27.6859Mb.

      FWIW, using:

      find -name *.flac -printf "%s\n" | awk '{c=c+1;s=s+$1} END {print c,s/c/1024/1024}'

    34. Re:Wrong! by original_nickname · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but no.

      I think you'll find that the very large majority of illegal MP3 releases nowadays are at either 192 kbps or Maximum quality VBR. People do not re-encode these to put them on peer to peer, so a typical p2p MP3 download would be 192 kbps or more.

    35. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. It's not friday night everywhere in the world.
      2. St Patrick's day isn't celebrated everywhere in the world.

      So please STFU about ST P's day already.

    36. Re:Wrong! by hobbit · · Score: 1

      Wow... in fewer than 20 words you have achieved: bitterness, stupidity, virginity (by your own logic), stupidity, oh, and did I mention stupidity?

      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
    37. Re:Wrong! by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      I can think of a better car analogy: a while back some magazine (I forget which) compared the top 3 midsize family sedans (in the US): the 4 cylinder Toyota Camry, 4 cylinder Honda Accord, and V6 Hyundai Sonata. Why was the comparison fair, even though the Sonata obviously had an advantage in horsepower? Because the price was the same as the other two.

      "Average to average" is also a valid comparison, for a similar reason. However, I do admit that the conclusions they drew from the study are horribly flawed; they should have only made the conclusion that I did rather than overstating their case.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  3. You don't say! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Adding CPU-intensive tasks such as encryption/DRM parsing requires more CPU, therefore more power, which therefore drains batteries at an increased rate.

    Film at 11! ;)

    But in all truth, it's interesting to see just how much more quickly batteries are being drained. It's not surprising that the average person hasn't really thought about this - modern day desktop processors can do anything, man! So obviously, in the mind of the non-technical person, this is something astonishing.

    1. Re:You don't say! by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Funny
      Adding CPU-intensive tasks such as encryption/DRM parsing requires more CPU, therefore more power, which therefore drains batteries at an increased rate.

      This is why I play NetHack rather than World of Warcraft.

      oh, and because it's free as in beer, too

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:You don't say! by LeonGeeste · · Score: 1

      The problem is, it drains more, and it doesn't have to. If the hardware took the encrypted format as native, the efficiency loss from using an encrypted format would be smaller than the precision of most instruments used to measure this. Usually, a software solution is best. But not this time!

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    3. Re:You don't say! by Saven+Marek · · Score: 2, Informative

      Something worth mentioning here too is the effect playing .ogg files has on battery life. It completely kills it in comparison to similar mp3s. My non-ipod player does .ogg among other formats, and I bought it for the purpose of playing .oggs, and if the majority of the music I listen to is ogg I get under 2/3 the battery life, closer to half, compared to listening to the majority as mp3. It's a very cpu intensive compression scheme which compresses better and sounds better than mp3 or AAC IMHO, but pays for it with CPU use. Even iPod Linux with dual 80MHz ARM cores inside each iPod to play with has trouble coping with oggs because of the cpu use needed to decode them.

    4. Re:You don't say! by pthisis · · Score: 1

      This is why I play NetHack rather than World of Warcraft.

      oh, and because it's free as in beer, too


      Free beer? Pasawahan keeps charging _me_ 225 zorkmids for a potion of booze. Probably ought to ditch the Hawaiian shirt, they're always ripping off tourists...

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    5. Re:You don't say! by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 1
      Adding CPU-intensive tasks such as encryption/DRM parsing requires more CPU, therefore more power, which therefore drains batteries at an increased rate.

      This is why I play NetHack rather than World of Warcraft.

      Don't forget - you must also eat nothing but beans and horsemeat.*

      (* apologies to the clever slashdotter who originally posted that - i forget who you are)

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    6. Re:You don't say! by cspeye · · Score: 1

      i agree! I don't see why anyone even has to report on this issue--it's inherently true, and I didn't even need a test to know that. As previous posters have pointed out, WMA is a more complex format. But a larger issue is that WMA has DRM, and DRM uses encryption, and whoever argues that it doesn't take more CPU to decrypt a file than to just read it is out of his/her mind. More CPU = Less battery life. There's nothing astonishing about this article. Just more fodder for those with a pocket full of anti-DRM, anti-Microsoft puns waiting for a +5 funny on their damn posts.

    7. Re:You don't say! by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      But decryption shouldn't cause that much overhead (and maybe it doesn't... people are questioning the methodology). Most encryption algorithms are based on shifting and boolean operations on bits. Even algorithms like PGP use something like this for the actual message. Surely this should need considerably less CPU power than the FFT type algorithms used in audio decompression.

    8. Re:You don't say! by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >This is why I play NetHack rather than World of Warcraft.

      I play Nethack because it's the better game, judged subjectively by its ability to immerse me in the gameplay. However, I've learned a few exploits for 3.4.3 that make the late-middle game less dangerous (and therefore boring). I don't have the discipline to play any kind of challenge, so I'm hoping that a couple of certain things get fixed in the next version.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  4. DRM suxx0rs by tedgyz · · Score: 5, Funny

    WTF? Do they do a license check after reading each bit?

    --
    "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
    1. Re:DRM suxx0rs by hunterkll · · Score: 1

      Gotta make sure it's really the original licensed copy!
      can't play any of those MODIFIED UNLICENSED copies!

    2. Re:DRM suxx0rs by jandrese · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think the problem comes from the decryption step. DRMed formats don't just have some license bits on the front, they also encrypt the rest of the payload to insure that nobody can just come by and rewrite (or erase) the license info.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    3. Re:DRM suxx0rs by ad0gg · · Score: 1

      From my knowledge of fairplay the mp4 wrapper wraps an encrypted raw aac track and at play time the key which is stored in some secure storage part of the ipod decrypts the encrypted payload contain the raw AAC. The extra cpu time is done in the decryption. I assume the decryption is done in realtime. I'm not sure why license information would be a factor but maybe you mean with wma and their subscription service and yet to hear how this actually works.

      --

      Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

    4. Re:DRM suxx0rs by minus_273 · · Score: 1

      i think the real problem is the article itself. you cant compare two different levels of quality and then say the the one with a higher level consumes more CPU because of DRM. I assume since some work is being done, that the DRM does consume some power but is it really as significant as the article makes it out to be? I don't know, but the article is BS.

      --
      The war with islam is a war on the beast
      The war on terror is a war for peace
    5. Re:DRM suxx0rs by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 1

      That, or the fact that they used computationally simple 128kbps MP3 and 192kbps computationally complex WMA. The 128kbps AAC showed an 8% hit, but that can be explained away with computational complexity and not DRM; an easy way to redo this test is to take a 128kbps MP3 and the same song encoded in non DRM 128kbps AAC and see if the same 8% hit occurrs.

      If yes, it is the codec and not the DRM.
      If no, it is the DRM and not the codec.

    6. Re:DRM suxx0rs by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Why compare it to MP3? Why not just compare the encrypted vs. nonencrypted (m4p vs. m4a) versionf of what are otherwise the same file (128kbps encode of the same song)?

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    7. Re:DRM suxx0rs by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 1

      Because I can't actually get the 'same' song in encrypted vs non encrypted. We're trying to prove that the difference in battery life is due to codec complexity.

      If I have a CD of, say, the Bangles, I can rip it twice, once with MP3 and once with AAC at the same bitrate and with the same settings.

      If I then perform the overnight test and report the values and they have an 8% hit then we can conclusively say that the 8% hit is not because of DRM but because of the additional complexity of the format/codec. If however I see less of a hit then the difference can be attributed to DRM since we have already seen that DRM vs non DRM has an 8% hit.

    8. Re:DRM suxx0rs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you could do this with DRM WMA files. You can rip your own CDs to DRM WMA in WMP. It was the default for a while, no idea why they thought that was a good idea.

      But you could rip the same song twice, with and without DRM and see what happens. I'd give it a go, but I only have an iPod, so no WMA for me.

  5. Huh? by danpsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is this in the apple section? I'm no apple fanboy but the windows DRMs cut battery life by 25% and apple's cut it 7%, seems like this should be in some other category cuz it's actually a bigger issue with plays-for-sure files...

    --
    Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
    1. Re:Huh? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2

      So that makes "Plays For Sure" a "Dead For Sure" proposition?

    2. Re:Huh? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative
      Not even a remotely fair test. They compared 128Kb/s MP3s to DRM'd WMAs (at 192Kb/s) and AACs (at 128Kb/s). Since both WMA and AAC are significantly newer and use more advanced compression algorithms, they take more CPU power to decode. More CPU load means more power used. If they had compared DRM'd AAC against AAC then this might have been interesting, but they didn't.

      'More advanced compression algorithms use more power[1]' doesn't work quite so well as a headline though, does it?

      [1] Even more when you need more disk accesses.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article is dead wrong on the Apple part.

      If you play nonDRM'd AAC files of the same size -- its just as draining.

      There is a reason for this, but I was told this under assumed confidence and verified it independantly. The article is wrong.

    4. Re:Huh? by jzeejunk · · Score: 1

      but windows DRM more than makes up for it by crashing

      --
      sarchasm
    5. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is this in the apple section?

      Because to many people DRM = iTunes, just as MP3-player = iPod. Apple was the one who intruduced hard DRM to the masses and most people get exposed to it only in Apples software.

    6. Re:Huh? by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      At least the article mentions Apple, the submissions talks about the WMA DRM 10 format - hello? That doesn't even play on any Apple product.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    7. Re:Huh? by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      Yep. Sensational stories generate the web traffic though.

    8. Re:Huh? by pintomp3 · · Score: 1

      also, the fact that when you are using higher bitrates, you will be access the disk more often. i'm sure there is some extra overhead involved when playing back drmed files, but different formats require different amounts of work to decompress. and using different bitrates also throws things off because you access the disk more often.

    9. Re:Huh? by NMZNMZNMZ · · Score: 1
  6. Environment UNfriendly by ZeroExistenZ · · Score: 0

    So DRM is a environment unfriendly too above human unfriendly.

    Those people must be soo horrible and eat puppies for breakfast >:(

    --
    I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
    1. Re:Environment UNfriendly by Jace+of+Fuse! · · Score: 1

      Those people must be soo horrible and eat puppies for breakfast >:(

      Savages! Everyone knows puppies are to be roasted for a late evening main course!

      --

      "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

      Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
  7. And Shrinkage by notestein · · Score: 4, Funny

    And DRM causes Shrinkage.

    1. Re:And Shrinkage by gallondr00nk · · Score: 1

      Depends on where you plug it into.

    2. Re:And Shrinkage by eclectro · · Score: 3, Funny

      And DRM causes Shrinkage

      ...of your wallet.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  8. Hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Additional processes, consuming additional cycles, and additional overall system monitoring seems to use more power. Who would have guessed?

    Next week on Slashdot; Leaving the lights on causes higher electricity bills!

  9. A Link != A Casual Link by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Sometimes you have to ask the right questions. The right question in this case is:
    Is the DRM draining the battery, or the more sophisticated compression algorithms used in the newer formats like AAC and WMA?

    They don't seem to have tested for that question. If it is the newer formats rather than the DRM, the question arises, "Would you accept a shorter battery life for higher fidelity and/or better compressed files?"
    1. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by MrNougat · · Score: 1

      Would you accept a shorter battery life for higher fidelity and/or better compressed files?

      I would prefer a battery that lasted for 77,000 hours and total silence.

      --
      Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
    2. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Funny

      In that case, we have the perfect product for you! The P-P-P-Powerbook can play a lifetime of silence, and never requires a battery change! Due to popular demand, we'll soon be following up with the more compant i-i-i-iPod! All of the same great features, but in a smaller package!

      Buy yours today!

    3. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by Al+Dimond · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, but where are you going to find a storage device capable of holding 1,015,384 perfect studio recordings of 4'33"?

    4. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by TheBogie · · Score: 0
      This is all FUD, because as we all know:

      CORRELATION != CAUSATION

      Yes, there is a correlation between DRM and shorter battery life. But, since CORRELATION != CAUSATION it is mathematically impossible for DRM to have caused the shorter battery life.

      QED

    5. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Um. Ok.

      Thank you Mr. Bogie for your passionate restating of the original post. It was very... um... passionate. :-)

    6. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by the_real_bto · · Score: 1

      I have an iAudio M3l. Before I bought it a bit of googling revealed users reports that battery life was about 50% shorter using Ogg Vorbis vs. mp3 files. I have been too lazy to actually measure this as the battery life of the M3l is pretty good (around 20-30 hours playing a mix of ogg and mp3).

      I would think that the devices themselves would also have to be controlled for. Different processors, amounts of ram, algorithms and all that good stuff. There are a lot of variables to take into account before generalizations can be made.

    7. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lay off the Kool-Aid, will you? Correlation is based on some causal link; what the oft screamed statement that you diligently repeated without thinking means is that it does not imply a direct causal link, not that it is incompatible with it. Quite the contrary, direct causal connections always generate correlations (duh!) so your 'mathematically impossible' assertion is logically ridiculous.

      So, to put it in perspective: there is a correlation between shorter battery life and DRM. There is a reasonable theory supporting a causal link: DRM means extra decrypting, hence extra processing and thus extra power needed (in fact, with a little extra knowledge one could probably come up with a reasonable extimate of the excess power needed) At this stage, what you need to do to disprove this idea is falsify the theory - and shouting 'correlation != causation' ain't it.

    8. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      since CORRELATION != CAUSATION it is mathematically impossible for DRM to have caused the shorter battery life.

      You seem to think that correlation rules out cause. By that logic, only uncorrelated events can cause things to happen. And that's just bizarre.

    9. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by Ansonmont · · Score: 1

      Just buy lots of the Sonic Youth silent track, a la Cage.

      -A

    10. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct. This is a link. A casual link is more like: "that site with a picture of a guy with a distended anus."

    11. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OmG A G0ATS3 Tr011z On TEH /.!!!!!!!!!111@11@#1eleventyone!@!@!! H0\/\/ 0R1g1nAL!3

    12. Re:A Link != A Casual Link by Omicron32 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure I read somewhere that the guy who pulled this prank disappeared after it was completed? They didn't hear from him again - mail, phone, chat, anything.

  10. Well, not really by jfengel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The test compares DRMed WMA to MP3s. Different file formats will have different power consumption requirements to decode. I'm sure they'd find that DRM WMAs do consume more power than unDRM WMAs, but will the difference be 25%?

  11. Is it just me, or ... by hunterkll · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    " Basically, rated battery life should be used as a guide and never be taken literally. "

    And WHO here, is the idiot that went out and bought an electronic device wanting to get exactly the same battery life in their own usage as the advertized 'normal' or 'optimal' usage pattern?

    1. Re:Is it just me, or ... by Tachikoma · · Score: 1

      (our) parents. remember that the technologically "in" are a small minority.

      --
      i don't care
    2. Re:Is it just me, or ... by hunterkll · · Score: 1

      That is the best slashdot user name i've EVER seen

    3. Re:Is it just me, or ... by babbling · · Score: 1

      Is that such an unreasonable expectation? If we're not supposed to buy devices based on the advertised specifications, what exactly are we meant to buy them based on?

      Is it really too much to ask that device manufacturers not be dishonest, and instead provide realistic expected battery life information?

    4. Re:Is it just me, or ... by GWTPict · · Score: 1

      You don't really understand this whole capitalism thing, do you?

  12. different formats? Hello? by kyjello · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Am I the only one to think that maybe WMA is just a more heavy format to decode in general? I bet you that a 128kbps mp3 isn't going to require exactly the same processing power as a 128kbps ogg file would. Maybe they should try comparing a DRM encoded WMA vs. a non DRM encoded WMA(if such a beast exists) before they start making claims that it is DRM alone causing the extra power consumption. MP3 != WMA.

    --
    kyjello is too damn smooth to make a signature.
    1. Re:different formats? Hello? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure. But DRM needing extra power to process, thus reducing battery life to a certain extent is true.

    2. Re:different formats? Hello? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The WMA tracks they tested were also at a higher bit rate than the MP3 and AAC tracks. This means more disk accesses were required, which eats a lot of battery. Both AAC and WMA are going to need more CPU than MP3 on top of this. I see a nomination for a bad science in journalism award...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:different formats? Hello? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Here's another way to think about it, however:
      If there's two choices for a song, 1) regular CD, or 2) DRMed WMA, with choice 1, you could rip it to Ogg, which can achieve similar sound quality with lower bitrates. So in that case it'd be perfectly valid to compare differing bitrates. With choice 2, you simply have no choice about what bitrate, what codec, etc. the song comes in.

    4. Re:different formats? Hello? by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Frankly, I think it is a shame that anyone has to pose this as a question, and not a statement of fact. I thought Slashdot was news for nerds? Everyone here should know that codecs that compress audio/video more require more complex algorithms, and more CPU power to decode in "real time". And that DRM relies on some form on encryption, which would aslo be necessary to reverse to some base point which the digital-to-analog system can handle. These basics should be commonsense. No? As to the actual percentages . . . that is another issue.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
  13. Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This has got to be one of the dumbest article submissions, EVER. I expect to see this kind of crap in a local rag, not on a website geared towards individuals who on average have significantly more technical know-how than the general population.

    Talk about going to extremes to push a political agenda. Gee Zonk, what do you REALLY feel about DRM. Next there will be articles on how DRM prevents you from storing as many files on your media player (699 vs 700!!!!).

    1. Re:Captain Obvious by grub · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Gee Zonk, what do you REALLY feel about DRM. Next there will be articles on how DRM prevents you from storing as many files on your media player (699 vs 700!!!!).

      The difference here is >1. If the hit in your hypothetical scenario was 25% (525 tracks vs 700) it would indeed be news, yes?

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    2. Re:Captain Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except in this case, they compared 128kbps MP3's vs 192Kpbs WMA's.

      So if they had said, that the Storage Card in my camera can only hold 100 4 MegaPixel Images or 67 6 MegaPixel Images, I would have said "no shit, sherlock"

      The test was bogus, they tested different bitrates, and different codecs, and learned absolutely nothing about what they claim to have learned. There is a much more plausible reason for the battery discrepenacy, the newer codecs (and the higher bitrates) require more processing overhead, which is what leads to increased power consumption. Until they test the same files, at the same bitrate with and without DRM, they can't really say anything about the effect DRM has on power consumption.

    3. Re:Captain Obvious by DJScrib · · Score: 1

      Want to know how much file overhead is added by adding DRM encryption to a wma file? Roughly 3k per file irregardless of the file size. (DRM adds a header to the file, the rest of the file is just scrambled) so you can only store about 999 3 minute tracks instead of 1000 on your system.

  14. Evil! by popeguilty · · Score: 1

    So not only does DRM violate our rights, it robs us of battery life and wastes power. I knew DRM was bad on a social level, but it's even got negative environmental consequences? Holy Eris, how bad does it get?

  15. Bullshit by mobby_6kl · · Score: 1, Redundant

    I noticed this story on digg earlier today, but I'll comment here instead.

    As much as I hate DRM, this whole comparison & conclusion is bullshit. They compare DRM'd WMA and AAC to MP3. From what I've noticed from using my underclocked pda, MP3 is much less processor intensive then (warezed, DRM-free) WMAs at the same bitrate. Even if you don't believe me (and I can't be bothered to look for sources), this is still a possibility they didn't address.

    1. Re:Bullshit by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Given your statement that MP3 is less processor intense than WMA, even of the same bitrate, how then is this comparison not valid?

      If I just want to listen to a song, I don't care what codec it's in. So if my choices are an MP3 and a DRMed WMA, and they sound the same, then it seems like this is a perfectly valid comparison.

      The headline might be a little misleading, however, but the point is that because having DRM requires the use of WMA (or AAC), which is a less efficient codec, it's perfectly valid to compare DRMed WMA to any format of your choice, as long as it sounds as good.

    2. Re:Bullshit by Nakarti · · Score: 1

      I thought you Digg-ers were anti-/. purists! Wait a minute.... Welcome to slashdot...? Go ahead, mod me offtopic, if you even see me under Redundancy here...

    3. Re:Bullshit by mobby_6kl · · Score: 1

      I'm offended* by you referring to me as Digg-er! I just check digg once a day to see what I'm not missing by hanging out mainly on /., and to fart in their general direction.

      * - not really, you don't have to apologize.

  16. Al Gore says.... by IflyRC · · Score: 1

    "DRM is another cause for global warming. It must be stopped! In fact, laptops are helping cause global warming and the batteries pollute the environment. Apple betrayed our country!! They played on hour fears!!!!"

    1. Re:Al Gore says.... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      "... Apple betrayed our country!! They played on hour fears!!!!"

      Wow, he must be pretty stupid to say something like that when he up for re-election on Apple's board of directors.

  17. misleading article by fugu · · Score: 1, Redundant

    The article compares MP3 to DRM'ed WMA and MP3 to DRM'ed AAC. Of course the battery life is going to be different, different formats require more or less processing power to decode. For this to be valid they need to compare WMA with and without DRM, or AAC with and without DRM.

  18. solution by nickgrieve · · Score: 1

    What we need then is some sort of specialized DRM chip-set, something that can do the CPU intensive stuff, but in a very low power way... I wonder if any of the industry leaders have thought about doing that...

    1. Re:solution by popeguilty · · Score: 1

      That would require that they regard battery life as an issue worth spending money on improving.

  19. Unfortunately ... by cdrguru · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Most of the folks out there are really quite susceptable to the argument that they have two choices:
    • Protect the heck out of it, whatever the consequences to the consumer.
    • Sell one copy which is immediately posted on the Internet for everyone to "share"

    Until that perception is corrected, DRM is a fact of life.

    So how do we correct this perception? Maybe by being responsible consumers and not "sharing" all digital media with the planet without permission. If the artist, composer or whatever releases it with "redistribute freely", then by all means, post it, share it, copy it. But, if it is released with "no redistribution allowed" then nobody shares it, copies it, etc.

    If that were to start happening market forces could then (perhaps) influence the licensing of music, video and other digital media. I do not see this happening anytime soon or even in my lifetime. Therefore, DRM is a live-or-die proposition to content owners. They can either protect it or sell one copy.

    1. Re:Unfortunately ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that #2 will happen regardless of whether you do #1.

      And copy protection pisses off consumers, making them more likely to want to "share" it. DRM does not encourage people to buy things, it pisses them off and encourages them to try to get an unprotected copy.

    2. Re:Unfortunately ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I promise I will be a responsible consumer as soon as the RIAA starts being responsible producers and not raping me with $18-$20 DRMed cds ($10 DRMed digital albums aren't much better IMO). They need to realize that fewer people will pirate stuff when they don't give them so many reasons to.

      You are buying into the same fallacy that we are all pirates by nature.

      I know I'm not the only one that doesn't have a problem with paying for music. My problem is with paying artificially high prices and then having to deal with the headaches that come along with it. If they would make music more affordable (in price and ease of use) I would pay for everything I listen to.

      Do you honestly believe that if we buy into their game that they will quit screwing us and trust us? Answer: NO! they will think they are doing something right and do it even worse. The only solution is to fight back until one of the biggies tries something novel and trusts us for once. The others will see them rolling in money and follow suit.

    3. Re:Unfortunately ... by bzipitidoo · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I would like to see copying != doing evil. Just about everyone feels a little guilt when they make copies.

      Give scientists and artists another way to profit from their efforts. Hard for the little guy to do anything more with a total monopoly than sell out for a fraction of its value to big organizations that still can't realize the full value because of all the protective measures and restrictions they feel compelled to use to protect their investment.

      Someday, I hope that for intellectual property we will have something akin to the road system. Free the highway of the information age the same way US Interstates freed the motorist from the tyranny of the little town that would never admit so but actually kind of liked it that their stop lights were poorly timed so nobody could get thru without several long waits at red lights. And before that, the highway numbering system put an end to communities deliberately misdirecting travellers their way. Good for local business, you understand, and safer for the children. There's the occasional tollway here and there but mostly there's no constant hassle about paying tolls every few miles. Saved massively on overhead by not having to pay people to man tollbooths, track time or distance spent on the tollroad with little pieces of paper or maintain accounts for RFID tags that the motorists must carry, and not delaying the motorists, etc. One reason why the Interstate system was built was so the states wouldn't make a mess by putting in dozens of different toll systems of their own, with tollroads to nowhere that didn't meet up at state borders. Rather ironic that the same technology that makes copyright unworkable could remove many of the reasons against a totally toll based road system.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    4. Re:Unfortunately ... by (H)elix1 · · Score: 1

      Until that perception is corrected, DRM is a fact of life.

      Not so sure about that. When everyone markets these things - they call them MP3 players. Folks trying to pitch them as ACC, WMA, or any other format don't do well. They are trying to sneak the DRM in as 'oh, you want to buy music? Here are your options'... I would not touch Apple if it could not play MP3. Pretty sure it would be a dead end if they tried to sell one like that. I buy CD's just because it is the only way for me to get high quality MP3's (without hitting Russian sites, etc).

    5. Re:Unfortunately ... by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 1

      "Maybe by being responsible consumers and not "sharing" all digital media with the planet without permission."

      You'll never pull this off, because it's totally against human nature not to share and enjoy songs and stories, the prime elements of culture.

      I suggest getting people to stop buying DRM might be better. Then the RIAA will do what they should have done all along -- find a new business model that works in the digital age, while we keep enjoying and sharing music.

      --
      He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
  20. DRM has gone... by ndtechnologies · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DRM has gone from Suck to Blow. Really, this isn't suprising. If DRM increases the amount of processing needed to play the file, of course it's going to drain the battery. Solution? Don't use DRM, or don't buy music from stores that do use it.

    --
    I have nothing clever to put here...
    1. Re:DRM has gone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best solution would be to just stop listening to music all together. That'd really stick it to the MPAA!

    2. Re:DRM has gone... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I dunno, I think it makes them angrier if we pirate it.

      'Course I only listen to Laoitian lesbian Ska and PBS myself and I don't watch TV, so I sometimes forget to start enough torrents to do that effectively. I try though. Those of you with more plebeian tastes should find this much easier of course.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    3. Re:DRM has gone... by soft_guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or strip the DRM off the files. You can do that with iTunes simply by burning the music to a CD and then ripping the CD. Or you can use PlayFair (Hymm).

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    4. Re:DRM has gone... by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Meh, what a waste of a CD. And time. I suppose maybe if I can get up a virtual drive as an image writer and then go back through and rip it, it'd be something. But meh, I'll stick to, uhh, other acquisitions. As to Playfair/(j)HYMN, I hope you bought your tracks with iTunes 5 or earlier.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    5. Re:DRM has gone... by ZiakII · · Score: 1

      Meh, what a waste of a CD. And time. I suppose maybe if I can get up a virtual drive as an image writer and then go back through and rip it, it'd be something. But meh, I'll stick to, uhh, other acquisitions. As to Playfair/(j)HYMN, I hope you bought your tracks with iTunes 5 or earlier.

      Actually there is an easier way you can use a program called tuneabite which plays the file in Itunes (or WMP) at 4x its normal speed while recording it and making a .mp3 file and transferring the ID Tags to the new .mp3...

    6. Re:DRM has gone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which ocean?

    7. Re:DRM has gone... by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      So, you take a lossy compression scheme, faithfully transfer all of its losses to a lossless format, and then lossy recompress that?

      Let's make a visual exercise to show you why this is a bad idea. Open a JPEG in an image editor. Save it as a TIFF. Open the up the TIFF. Save it as a JPEG with decent compression. Repeat this enough times for the lesson to become clear.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    8. Re:DRM has gone... by Gli7ch · · Score: 0

      Actually the loss would be negligable going from MP3 to CD to MP3. If you're using a similar encoder engine (like whichever one is built into iTunes), chances are the loss is pretty much the same. WMA tracks would be a bit of a problem, because it's going from one lossless format to another, but if you buy from iTunes and they're AAC, just rip them as AAC again.

      The point wasn't to change the quality, it was to get rid of DRM, so it's more like open a JPEG, save it as a TIFF. Open the TIFF, and save it as a PNG. Sure, it will be worse quality than your normal PNG, but it'll be the same quality as your original JPEG.

    9. Re:DRM has gone... by sdo1 · · Score: 1

      Great idea about burning and ripping! Now if I want to recompress it, I'll have a doubly sucky sounding song, not just the regular sucky that is 128 kbps.

      Or I can just give a big 'ol F.U. to the big labels and Apple until they start releasing high quality un-DRM'd music.

      -S

      --
      --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
    10. Re:DRM has gone... by Firehed · · Score: 1
      Still, more programs to deal with and I end up with multiple copies of everything. I shouldn't talk as I've got my music library on two different hard drives as I didn't delete it from the original after I moved it to a new drive. Sounds like it would be lossy though (moreso than just ripping the crap right out), as that's basically just a faster and more convenient version of sound recorder and line-in with a 3.5mm M-M cable. I still find it rediculous that my options are pay too much and get hassled to hell or pirate it and it works on everything without issue. And apparently I can listen to it for longer on-the-go as well.

      If only artists offered a pay-to-download MP3 option on their websites... what's not to lose? They make all the money, it's still being paid for and you're not hassling the customers. Heck, even something simple like OSCommerce has downloadable goods built into it, and you could probably add in a hack to pay 25% for a second or perhaps third download (for after your hard drive crashed). Think StarDock here - I'm really tempted to buy their game just because of how they treat their customers. The only people a direct-from-artist download isn't good for are the RIAA and the guys running the online music services like iTunes and, uhh, iTunes.

      I've bought a few tracks from the iTMS, but the hassle of having to go through stupid steps like the above keep me from actually buying all of my music. It just doesn't feel "whole" to download the full album since there's no tangible product, but at $18+ for some CDs at retail, that's definately not an option for me either. And every one of my iTMS purchases is a result of a song being used (almost certainly) illegally. They gave credit in the music video, I liked the song, pirated the album, ended up actually buying the thing. Bought two more albums from the artist once I found them as well. There's plenty of stuff that I've just downloaded and not bought as well, but that's only because the pricing is rediculous - I'd really love to support the artists. But the RIAA being part of the deal no matter how I'd buy it creates an internal conflict of interests for me, and the artist suffers. I wish it weren't so, or that I could go to a concert or something (there aren't a whole lot of tours in Western East Nowhere [or is that EWN?]), but them's the breaks.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    11. Re:DRM has gone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you meant to ask if the lesbians were Chinese or Japanese.

    12. Re: DRM has gone... by gidds · · Score: 1
      If you're using a similar encoder engine (like whichever one is built into iTunes), chances are the loss is pretty much the same.

      I don't believe that's the case. You might expect it to be so -- after all, with the same bitrate, it ought to be able to encode everything that was in the first MP3 -- but MP3 encoders are really complex beasts, and AIUI re-encoding is likely to reduce the quality level still further. (Any experts here who can add some detail?)

      Now, how much worse you think it is, and whether you consider that reduction worth it, it of course a matter for you, your ears, and your HD size. But AIUI the results will be worse than the original MP3.

      (Of course, this doesn't apply to the ->CD->MP3 case you mentioned, because iTunes sells stuff in AAC! But it would apply if you took that AAC, burned it to CD, and then re-encoded it to AAC.)

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    13. Re:DRM has gone... by snoozebutton · · Score: 0

      AFAIK, iTunes DRM isn't checked by the iPod in any way, only by iTunes. Hence the ability to copy your purchased iTMS files to an unlimited number of iPods. That would mean no extra processor usage.

      Seems like it's a problem that's limited to WMA devices.

    14. Re:DRM has gone... by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Actually the loss would be negligable going from MP3 to CD to MP3.

      It would still exist. That's why I said to repeat the steps until it became evident. The same compression engine will not fail to find something to drop to make the image/music look/sound almost as good as the last iteration.

      The point wasn't to change the quality, it was to get rid of DRM, so it's more like open a JPEG, save it as a TIFF. Open the TIFF, and save it as a PNG. Sure, it will be worse quality than your normal PNG, but it'll be the same quality as your original JPEG.

      Of course it will -- PNG uses lossless compression scheme. Try going from JPEG2000 to JPEG to make the analogy more apt.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    15. Re:DRM has gone... by Steve001 · · Score: 1

      Anonymous Coward wrote:

      The best solution would be to just stop listening to music all together. That'd really stick it to the MPAA!

      Actually, if people simply reduced the amount of music they purchase it would have a significant effect on the music industry. I think this has happened, but not because of piracy. It has happened because much of the music being released is not what the people want to buy.

      A simple equation: Releasing music that people don't want to buy = Lower music sales

      This is also a factor in the success or lack of success of new music formats like DVD-Audio and SACD. For most people, CD is a perfectly fine audio format, and it is a well-established standard. It overcame just about all of the problems with the previous formats.

      But are the weaknesses of CD enough to make people willing to shell out the money to buy a new format? In addition to cost, the locked-down nature of newer formats (including DRM) will be a disincentive for people to move away from CD.

    16. Re:DRM has gone... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Generally, "What's to lose" is a lawsuit from the studio they signed a contract with. Just a guess, of course. I understand some artists *DO* sell downloads.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    17. Re:DRM has gone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to guess the AC was kidding when they said that not buying music would really stick it to the MPAA.

    18. Re:DRM has gone... by Gli7ch · · Score: 0

      Only 24bit PNGs.

  21. Argh by GoRK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If it weren't for every site on the whole damn Internet parroting each other so badly perhaps this never would have made the news. Anyway their "study" is deeply flawed, and while it could be argued that DRM does actually cause your player to consume more battery life than it otherwise would, DRM is not making the power impact they claim and anyone giving the problem more than even five seconds of rational thought would realize this.

    The codec is the problem. It takes more power to decode WMA (DRM or not) than it does to decode MP3. Ditto for AAC. The codecs are more computationally intensive and are decoded by general purpose CPU's in many players while MP3 is most often decoded with dedicated ASIC's. Even if all decodes are done in dedicated hardware, the MP3 codec is still likely going to be the most power efficient.

    A proper study would have compared identical tracks with identical compression with and without DRM such as an iTunes track played on repeat vs the same track with DRM stripped out played the same way. I'd bet the overhead of the DRM is more on the order of 1-3% here.

    It is; however, the DRM that is locking you into using WMA/AAC vs the power-saving MP3 format in the first place, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that it's the DRM's fault that a player running a more complex codec takes a power hit for doing so.

    1. Re:Argh by GoRK · · Score: 4, Insightful

      PS

      I really don't mean to sound like a DRM apologist, but making irrational and flawed arguments against DRM is no way to fight it. There's lots of more rational approaches, such as explaining to the customer that they are paying for their own lockout devices.

      The problem is like that tag on the mattress. You spent who knows how many tax dollars to put that thing there and the privilege you receive for all that money is the inability to cut the thing off. (Yes I do know you actually can remove the tag -- just not before it is sold.)

    2. Re:Argh by michaelknauf · · Score: 1

      Oh no, making irrational flawed arguments could be very effective, if enough of the public (baa!) decides DRM is bad for any reason (Baa! Baa!) it could indeed influence the device makers and DRM proponents... Who cares why the public gets up-in-arms... let them get up in arms!

    3. Re:Argh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      irrational and flawed arguments

      That's just fighting them with their own weapons!

    4. Re:Argh by elmegil · · Score: 1

      Sounds more to me like crying wolf than crying baa. In other words, lying is lying and when you get caught, no one will believe you next time.

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
    5. Re:Argh by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Who's to say that non-DRM WMA files are not just restricted with a known key? This actually makes sense because WMA was designed to be a digital restriction format from the start. In a post treacherous-computing world it would then be possible to identify creative-commons files versus files encoded before pervasive restrictions were in place. And it would offer the benefit of DRM files not 'costing' anything over free ones. So clearly there is motive for making non-DRM files use a known key rather than being just the raw data.

      So unless you know differently then your suggestion could be *masking* the cost of DRM by doing an invalid comparison. Instead this comparison is between formats that a reasonable person might choose, a known-free format and a known-restricted one. They could have compared ogg vs wma for instance, but comparing wma to drm-wma is actually even worse than mp3 vs wma. I think it's a good comparison, definitely not worth the scorn so many have dumped on it.

    6. Re:Argh by DeeKayWon · · Score: 4, Interesting
      It takes more power to decode WMA (DRM or not) than it does to decode MP3. Ditto for AAC.

      Speaking of parroting, this has shown up several times in the discussion, with only assumptions and no evidence to back it up.

      Take a look here: http://www.foobar2000.org/foospeed/

      That's a collection of decoding speed results from various machines using foobar2000. It doesn't include WMA, but AAC and MP3 are on there, and the results are rather consistent in showing that AAC decodes faster than MP3. Not overwhelmingly, but definitely noticeable. Regardless, it disproves the whole "newer codec, therefore must be more complex, therefore must take longer to decode" assumption.

    7. Re:Argh by drew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The decoding speed of a codec on an Intel x86 processor probably has only minimal bearing on the power usage on another unrelated processor (or even necessarily on that processor) for a variety of reasons, even assuming they use the same decoders. The two codecs would use completely different combinations of instructions for the decoding, and without knowing what those instructions are, how they translate between the 2 ISAs, and how many cycles they take, correlations between speed and processing power on different ISAs is almost meaningless, especially when you consider that many hardware MP3 players implement some or all of their supported audio codecs in hardware as ASICs.

      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
    8. Re:Argh by kimgkimg · · Score: 1

      We need to break our addiction to foreign oil. Convert all your DRM tracks into non-DRM'd MP3 for the good of the nation!!!

    9. Re:Argh by mp3phish · · Score: 3, Informative

      Anyway their "study" is deeply flawed, and while it could be argued that DRM does actually cause your player to consume more battery life than it otherwise would, DRM is not making the power impact they claim and anyone giving the problem more than even five seconds of rational thought would realize this.

      That depends, when you say rational thought, would you consider the scientific method to be rational?

      The codec is the problem. It takes more power to decode WMA (DRM or not) than it does to decode MP3. Ditto for AAC ... the MP3 codec is still likely going to be the most power efficient.

      I agree this is probably true. Yet still supports my below points.

      A proper study would have compared identical tracks with identical compression with and without DRM such as an iTunes track played on repeat vs the same track with DRM stripped out played the same way.

      Incorrect.

      In any scientific process you must have a control group. In this case, they picked the most popular format which is the most widely compatible, most used, and has been out the longest: MP3 CBR. Why should the control group be forced to use a proprietary format which is not readilly available for use and is not going to be used in the real world? If you set the control group to be WMA or AAC files in the same bitrate which you download off music stores, you would be covering likely less than 1% of all music being used on portable players (because you won't find many people using non-drm WMA or AAC files on ipods and mp3 players)

      You missed the point of the article completely. It doesn't matter if the AAC or WMA DRM encryption takes up more processor power than non DRM AAC or WMA files. Or if they use the same. What matters is that when you are listening to an MP3 in the control group (which covers somewhere around 99% of all nonDRM music on portable players), and then you downlaod the same song on iTunes or walmart.com, and the battery life goes to 8%-25% less.

      Nobody in their right mind would use AAC or WMA for non-encrpyted files, so why would that be the only fair comparrison? WMA/AAC files do not work in most DVD players. WMA/AAC files do not work in most in-dash mp3 players in cars. WMA/AAC files do not work on most portable devices such as phones and PDA's. WMA/AAC files do not work on almost ANYTHING other than their respective x86/PPC operating system/applications combinations and their respective portable players (Sandisk/Creative -> plays4sure and ipod -> Fairplay)

      Sure, you could make a control group which uses WMA files and then compare it to the variant group which uses DRM WMA files, but then you would be focusing your study on about .01% of the population rather than pretty much everyone who is already using MP3's.

      --
      Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
    10. Re:Argh by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "The problem is like that tag on the mattress. You spent who knows how many tax dollars to put that thing there and the privilege you receive for all that money is the inability to cut the thing off. (Yes I do know you actually can remove the tag -- just not before it is sold.)"

      so you knwongly use an example that invalidates your arguement?

      There is a reason for that tag. Just because you don't know why it has to be there doesn't mean it was a waste.

      I know why it's there, you can look it up.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    11. Re:Argh by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Who's to say that non-DRM WMA files are not just restricted with a known key? This actually makes sense because WMA was designed to be a digital restriction format from the start.

      Wow... speculate much? The burden of proof is on you, buddy. Do you have any fact-based reason to believe that unrestricted WMA files are encrypted?

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    12. Re:Argh by plastik55 · · Score: 1
      Your notion of methodology is oddly familiar. Do you work for a nutritional supplements company by any chance? Or maybe a purveyor of hi-fi equipment?


      You missed the point of the article completely. It doesn't matter if the AAC or WMA DRM encryption takes up more processor power than non DRM AAC or WMA files.

      Funny, the article I read claimed "It takes extra processing power to ensure that the licenses making the tracks work are still valid and match up to the device itself. Heavy DRM not only slows down an MP3 player but also sucks the very life out of them." And if you're going to make a claim like that, you need a control group that actually tests the claim.

      --

      I have a positive modifier on Troll. When I mod someone Troll their karma should go UP!

    13. Re:Argh by evilviper · · Score: 1
      Nobody in their right mind would use AAC or WMA for non-encrpyted files,

      Not true at all for AAC. AAC is becomming quite popular, because it does have very good quality at very low bitrates. You can find numerous AAC files on P2P networks, downloadable from websites, etc.

      Programs such as iTunes, Quicktime, and Winamp are strongly biased towards AAC encoding. The MP4 video standard depends on AAC. AAC is really taking-off, and this small fact COMPLETELY and totally underminds your entire post.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    14. Re:Argh by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 1

      You are incorrect on many levels. Let me go up layer by layer:

      1) If you want to claim that it is DRM, and not the codec, that is draining battery life, you need to test the same song with and without DRM; from the iTMS it is simple to buy a track and then strip it using PlayFair. If both playlists come out the same, then you can't claim the DRM is draining the battery life.

      On the other hand if you want to claim, instead, that it is the codec that is draining battery life (which is what I believe), then you need to test the song encoded in 128kbps MP3 vs 128kbps WMA vs 128kbps AAC, without any DRM.

      This is regardless of the social context of what is popular, what is common, what is available. It is purely and only to measure the performance hit of DRM. If DRM really is what sucks the battery life, then we should find that all WMA, AAC, and MP3 of the same kbps and of the same song should hit the battery equally. We would also see that the same AAC file from the iTMS would take more battery with DRM than without.

      2) Second you claim no one in their right mind would use AAC or WMA. Excuse me? That is like saying no one in their right mind would use MP3. If you don't know, here are several reasons to use AAC or WMA

      a) An MP3 encoded at 225kbs is roughly equivalent in quality to an AAC encoded at 160kbps. If you want to increase battery life and storage capacity, you encode at a lower bitrate to reduce song filesize and memory footprint.
      b) An MP3 encoded at 160kbps will have slightly lower quality than an AAC encoded at 160kbps. If you want to increase sound performance without increasing size, you use a more advanced codec.
      c) AAC is really the logical successor to MP3. MP3 is ISO MPEG 1 Layer 3, while AAC is ISO MPEG 4 advanced audio codec. Your rejection of AAC is absurd and silly; My DVD player plays MPEG4, DivX, AAC, MP3, and WMA. My iPod (at last count they were roughly 80% of the market) plays MP3, AAC, and MPEG4. All PCs and Macs with iTunes plays AAC, MP3, and MPEG4, and at last count in a previous article it was discussed that iTunes has twice the use rate of WMP. I don't know why you think no one uses AAC has it clearly has two advantages over MP3, listed above.

    15. Re:Argh by the_ed_dawg · · Score: 1
      A more proper comparison would be how the energy* consumed by a MP3 codec ASIC compares to the energy of the AAC player processor. Sure, a really fast processor may take p% of the time that a dedicated chip requires. However, if the ASIC consumes less than p% of the power of the processor, you lose by using the processor to decode the codec. After all, the listener doesn't care about 1 us versus 2 us versus 5 us decode time. Decode time just has to be inperceptible to the human ear. The question that we can't answer, of course, is what these percentages are.

      *Note for our younger readers: Energy = Power * Time

      --
      There are two types of people: those prepared for the zombie apocalypse and those who will be eaten.
    16. Re:Argh by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      How about AAC, which wasn't meant to be a DRM format(hint: it was invented by Dolby, the DRM wrapper around it by Apple)? It will almost certainly show favor for the non-DRMed AAC.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    17. Re:Argh by GoRK · · Score: 1

      This study has no relevance to this argument. Decoding speed means nothing. It's even quite possible that decoding AAC on a general purpose CPU uses more power hungry operations than decoding MP3 (no idea if this is true, but it's possible) despite the fact that the CPU does the operation faster.

      In any rate, if you want to know which codec takes less power in an MP3 player just look up the datasheets for the ASIC's that are in the player. They'll have a breakdown of power requirements for various bitrates.

    18. Re:Argh by mp3phish · · Score: 1

      1) If you want to claim that it is DRM, and not the codec, that is draining battery life...

      I never made this claim. I claimed that DRM files from music stores use more battery life than standard MP3 audio (which is covered on 100% of portable, and other compressed audio devices. Something you cannot say for AAC and WMA)

      ..if you want to claim, instead, that it is the codec that is draining battery life (which is what I believe), then you need to test the song encoded in 128kbps MP3 vs 128kbps WMA vs 128kbps AAC, without any DRM.

      I am not making this claim either. Though it MAY be true, and another study could prove it or disprove it, it is irrelevant to the claim of the origional article. That claim being that DRM music downloaded from music stores use between 8%-25% more battery life than standard mp3 music files. Even if you proved that the codec is what is causing the battery life, it makes no difference because with DRM you are FORCED TO USE THAT CODEC. With nonDRM you can use mp3 which is accepted on every device out there and according to the test, uses less battery life than the others.

      This is regardless of the social context of what is popular, what is common, what is available.

      The social context of what is popular, what is common, what is available, and what actually WORKS IN EVERY PLAYER is the most important part of this study. Why would you do a study on a file format which isn't even supported on most device out there? You claimed that ipods were 80% of the market and they support AAC. Well, that is 80% of the PORTABLE PLAYER market. Not the entire market where compressed music is used. What about in dash mp3 playerS? My dvd player doesn't support AAC. Most 3rd party portable players don't support AAC. Almost NO in dash players support it. Who cares if its ISO MPEG4?? Does that make it automatically compatible with most in the world? No.

      It is purely and only to measure the performance hit of DRM.

      Again, no it isn't. The point is to measure the battery hit when going from the most popular format (MP3) to a DRM file downloaded from a music store (only available in WMA and AAC DRM)

      If DRM really is what sucks the battery life, then we should find that all WMA, AAC, and MP3 of the same kbps and of the same song should hit the battery equally.

      Incorrect. DRM could suck battery life ON TOP of any extra power the different codecs use. There are 2 layers here, the codec can determine battery life, and the DRM can affect battery life. Combined, they might affect battery life differently with all the different combinations. Though this would be up to a seperate study which compared each vanila codec to each DRM codec in every combination. Something this study OBVIOUSLY didn't do. And didn't need to.

      We would also see that the same AAC file from the iTMS would take more battery with DRM than without.

      You might find this, you might not. It isn't covered in this study because this study compares the battery life between the most common file format (MP3) to the only available DRM formats from online music stores (DRM-WMA and DRM-AAC). It found that the battery hit is 8%-25% when using these formats over standard MP3.

      2) Second you claim no one in their right mind would use AAC or WMA. Excuse me?

      I apologise for exaggerating.

      That is like saying no one in their right mind would use MP3.

      Now you are exaggerating.

      ..here are several reasons to use AAC or WMA:

      a) An MP3 encoded at 225kbs is roughly equivalent in quality to an AAC encoded at 160kbps...


      This is a myth. LAME encoded MP3's are pretty equivilent to AAC files when used at higher bitrates. AAC is better at lower bitrates than MP3, I will give you that. But at higher bitrates over 128-192, LAME and OGG are still considered the gold standards. You may have an opinion on this different than everyone else. So might I. And both of us could argu

      --
      Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
    19. Re:Argh by mp3phish · · Score: 1

      Your notion of methodology is oddly familiar. Do you work for a nutritional supplements company by any chance? Or maybe a purveyor of hi-fi equipment?

      No.

      Funny, the article I read claimed "It takes extra processing power to ensure that the licenses making the tracks work are still valid and match up to the device itself. Heavy DRM not only slows down an MP3 player but also sucks the very life out of them."

      Yes. And this is what they did. They took an MP3 player and loaded it with MP3's. They took the same player and loaded it with the only available DRM files they could find from online music stores: Fairplay-AAC and Plays4Sure-WMA.

      They found that when you do this to an MP3 player, the battery life goes down by 8%-25%.

      And if you're going to make a claim like that, you need a control group that actually tests the claim.

      Which is exactly what they did. They played MP3's in an MP3 player. They measured the battery life. They then loaded that MP3 player with DRM files off the internet. They measured the battery life. If they could have found MP3's which were sold on the internet with DRM, I'm sure they would have done it. There aren't any so they were forced into using WMA and AAC files. The whole point of the article wen't completely over your head if you do not understand this. The action of using DRM files means you are using CPU power to not only decode the DRM encrpytion, but also to decode a less efficient CODEC. Both of these things cause the files drain your battery life faster. How that is distributed between the CODEC and the DRM scheme is irrelevant in this study.

      --
      Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
    20. Re:Argh by mp3phish · · Score: 1

      While I agree AAC is gaining popularity, it isn't everywhere. It isn't even on a majority of players which can play compressed music. This is why it doesn't undermine my points.

      If AAC were more popular, or on equal ground, or even close, to mp3 in this respect, I would be wrong. However, AAC still isn't mainstream on any device other than the iPod. And the iPod is on TV. That doesn't mean everyone has one. And it doesn't mean everyone is going to get one. In fact, MOST people who use compressed music don't have an iPod. They have in dasn mp3 players. They have computers. They have DVD or CD players which support MP3. There are 5 years worth of installed base on mp3 devices that are still out there which support nothing other than MP3. These factors, and others I'm sure, are reasons the article chooses MP3's as the default file format to compare against.

      --
      Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
    21. Re:Argh by Jardine · · Score: 1

      Nobody in their right mind would use AAC or WMA for non-encrpyted files, so why would that be the only fair comparrison?

      Sure they would. AAC is the default in iTunes and WMA is the default in Windows Media Player. What percentage would you suppose buys an iPod, installs the software from the CD it comes with, and uses the defaults to rip their CD collection? Same thing with the players that support WMA. Lots of people will rip their CD collection with WMP because it's the default and they don't know any better.

    22. Re:Argh by mp3phish · · Score: 1

      Sure they would. AAC is the default in iTunes and WMA is the default in Windows Media Player. What percentage would you suppose buys an iPod, installs the software from the CD it comes with, and uses the defaults to rip their CD collection?

      I think you are bending the meaning of "in their right mind" a bit don't you think? It would be hard to say anybody who is locking their music collection into proprietary formats which are not compatible with eachother for no reason other than it being the default to be in their right mind. In the case of windows media player, using only devices which licensed WMA, and in the case of iTunes, using only iPods are possible when ripping using the default method. In other words, if you go to the store and buy one device, then the other, your entire music collection isn't compatible with either when using the default ripping method.

      --
      Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
    23. Re:Argh by Jardine · · Score: 1

      I think you are bending the meaning of "in their right mind" a bit don't you think? It would be hard to say anybody who is locking their music collection into proprietary formats which are not compatible with eachother for no reason other than it being the default to be in their right mind. In the case of windows media player, using only devices which licensed WMA, and in the case of iTunes, using only iPods are possible when ripping using the default method. In other words, if you go to the store and buy one device, then the other, your entire music collection isn't compatible with either when using the default ripping method.

      I know that and you know that, but Joe Blow doesn't know that. Joe Blow just knows that he can get his CDs onto his computer by opening up Windows Media Player or iTunes and putting the CD in.

    24. Re:Argh by evilviper · · Score: 1
      And the iPod is on TV. That doesn't mean everyone has one.

      No, it doesn't mean everyone has one. It just means that 80% of people have one, which is not to be scoffed at.

      They have in dasn mp3 players. They have computers. They have DVD or CD players which support MP3.

      I very, very rarely see in-dash mp3 players. Computers are a non-issue, as you can download any audio codec you like, trivially. DVD/CD players are a fair point, but they're not a huge installed base.

      This is still besides the point, though. Many people ARE and WILL BE encoding their content into non-DRMed AAC, which certainly does completely undermine your point.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    25. Re:Argh by plastik55 · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but the article made specific claims about the power used by a digital audio player in decoding licenses AS OPPOSED TO the codec. Read the quote again.

      "It takes extra processing power to ensure that the licenses making the tracks work are still valid and match up to the device itself."

      Did they test this? No. They tested two conditions that had a number of differences, ONE OF WHICH was the presence of licenses. But then they make the claim:

      "It takes extra processing power to ensure that the licenses making the tracks work are still valid and match up to the device itself."

      which focuses on one aspect of the diference and attributes a singular mechanism to the loss of battery life.

      Suppose that the digital audio players took less power to decode a DRM'd WMA file than an otherwise identical WMA file. This would contradict the above statement, while remaining entirely consistent with the existing results. Therefore, the above quote from the article is not a claim that can be made in good faith.

      If the article had not made the claim above, you may have had a point. Unfortunately, you're blowing hot air.

      The action of using DRM files means you are using CPU power to not only decode the DRM encrpytion,

      Now you are starting to attribute mechanisms to that for which you have no evidence. There is no evidence that decoding the DRM encryption is a source of power loss (which the article DID claim.)

      but also to decode a less efficient CODEC.

      On the other hand there is no evidence from this study that decoding a less efficient codec is a cause of power loss.

      The only reasonable claim is that the power loss is associated with the COMBINATION of two factors. But the article DID NOT MAKE the reasonable claim.

      Both of these things cause the files drain your battery life faster. How that is distributed between the CODEC and the DRM scheme is irrelevant in this study.

      It cannot be irrelevant if they make specific claims about the effect of one AND NOT the other.

      Let's put the quote into more context:

      "My music library consists of higher-bit-rate MP3s, purchased iTunes tracks, and even a few WAV and Apple Lossless tracks--all of which require more decoding/processing power than a vanilla 128Kbps MP3. The same applies to variable bit-rate files.

      Those who belong to subscription services such as Napster or Rhapsody have it worse. Music rented from these services arrive in the WMA DRM 10 format, and it takes extra processing power to ensure that the licenses making the tracks work are still valid and match up to the device itself."

      So: the author ALREADY has files in codecs and formats other than mp3, and than goes on to claim that adding DRM to the mix taeks even more power on top of that.

      I'm afraid the point of the article went completely over your head if you can't read what it says.

      --

      I have a positive modifier on Troll. When I mod someone Troll their karma should go UP!

    26. Re:Argh by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 1

      Alright, back to basics. The article claims, "Heavy DRM not only slows down an MP3 player but also sucks the very life out of them."

      There are several ways to test this claim.

      They used 128kbps AAC + DRM vs 128kbps MP3, without ALSO testing 128kbps AAC. Why is this important? If they claim it is the DRM that is sucking the battery life, they need to also show proof that it is not the AAC.

      If I am right (I am testing this right now with my iPod), it isn't heavy DRM but AAC that sucks the life out of the iPod; with 10 songs, 51.5mb, 44.1 minutes in AAC and 50.7mb in MP3 I am testing overnight. 12 hours and 49 minutes with AAC and by tomorrow I will know how long with MP3.

      You believe what you wish, but the article claims it is the DRM, where I believe it is the codec.

      Of course if I find, after adjusting for the minute filesize difference, that AAC sucks up 5% battery life, then I will agree that DRM does suck up battery life, but I will claim it is only 3%, which is well within the bounds of normal usage. You can claim all you want that DRM music sucks battery life, but that is YOUR claim, and not the article's claim.

    27. Re:Argh by mp3phish · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't mean everyone has one. It just means that 80% of people have one, which is not to be scoffed at.

      Excuse me? 80% of people have the iPod? MAYBE 80% of the portable mp3 player market. But if you look at the numbers this is a very very small fraction of all people in the united states.

      The facts are that there are 5 years or more worth of mainstream installed base that was out BEFORE the ipod became popular. Even today, the ipod doesn't outweigh all mp3 devices out there. There are just too many which existed before the ipod. Not to mention that the iPod is ONE market where mp3's are used.

      Just because you didn't see mp3 players in dashboards doesn't mean they aren't out there. The honda civic comes with it BY DEFAULT. Every single one. There are other brands which do this as well. At walmart, all but the cheapest in-dash player has mp3 support. At bestbuy, the same is true. the 07 toyotas all will come with it BY DEFAULT. And yes, they don't support AAC (maybe firmwar will let them? I doubt it). I didn't read the specs to them all, but most don't support AAC. Some support WMA though.

      Do you really think that people would rather listen to their iPod over a FM transmitter than to have a cdr with all their favorite music on it built in? Not to mention the additional cost it takes to buy a 50-80$ fm transmitter for the ipod, the extra wires to hook up, the extra cupholder holder for the ipod, and the extra hassel of carrying your ipod with you each time you use your car.

      Go back to home stero systems and you will see the same trend. Look at both CD players and DVD players which play CD's. They all support mp3's. Most newer ones support WMA (but no older ones). Not many support AAC except those which support MPEG4.

      The facts are there are more legacy MP3 devices out there than there are iPods. And iPod is the only device which supports AAC across the board 100%. And even it only controls 80% of its own market. That leaves 20% and RISING of the rest of the ipod's market which does not support AAC. Even when everyone who wants a portable player buys one, there will still be more every day people using mp3's on fixed devices than people who use the iPod exclusively. Remember, if you use the iPod, AND another device, you are basically forced to the MP3 sector for your collection. So you can't count those people as AAC.

      I agree with you that AAC is a popular format. I would probably also agree that there are more AAC files being used than WMA files simply because of the iPod. But one thing I do NOT agree with you is that AAC is a supported format on most of the devices. It isn't. In fact WMA is probably supported on more devices than AAC, it just isn't used as much because MP3 is superior to it and more compatible. This may change with HD-DVD and BlueRay coming out with MPEG4. But there is no reasn or incentive for the industry to change while they already have a huge installed base for MP3 (and somewhat for WMA) and whild standard MPEG2 dvd players and disks are coming out. Even today most do not support AAC.

      --
      Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
    28. Re:Argh by mp3phish · · Score: 1

      Did you read the article? It specifically says it is comparing the most common format MP3 on an MP3 player and then they load up a DRM song (the only kind available to them being WMA or AAC versions) and then they get 8-25% less battery life.

      I don't know what you read, but the article is clear. You may think it would be appropriate to measure every codec against eachother without DRM, and then with DRM, but that would be impossible. Because NOBODY makeas a DRM mp3. When you use DRM music, you are FORCED TO USE WMA and AAC. When you use non-drm music, you automatically use MP3 because 1) that is the default 2) it is the most compatible and 3) it is the most common file format (by a significant majority).

      You can argue all day your points. It doesn't change the fact that if you are an average joe user who is playing MP3's, and then one day you download a DRM file, the battery life goes down. Period.

      --
      Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
    29. Re:Argh by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 1

      Except that 95% of my files are ripped in AAC for size and quality reasons.

      When I download a DRM AAC file, I don't see a performance hit on my iPod.

      If other people also used AAC for size and quality reasons, they would see similar battery life.

      Of course they could choose to use MP3 too, I'm not denying that.

      I don't think you understand my point: AAC and WMA are nowhere near as rare as you make them out to be, even if MP3 is dominant.

    30. Re:Argh by Carthag · · Score: 1

      I think DeeKayWon's point was more that people are automatically (and incorrectly at least in this one case) assuming that AAC takes more CPU to decode than MP3 than it was anything else.

    31. Re:Argh by mp3phish · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understand my point: AAC and WMA are nowhere near as rare as you make them out to be, even if MP3 is dominant.

      Yes AAC and WMA are. Anybody using more than one device from different vendors are using MP3. The whole point of compressed music is to use it in many places. That is the benefit of digital music over legacy formats like CD's and tapes. It is even what iTune's biggest feature is, share your mp3's on up to X number of iPods (what is it like 5 ipods per itunes account?)

      But what about EVERYthing else? What about all the other devices out there. If you aren't licensing firmware from apple then your device doesn't work with iTunes. That is 20% of the portable market. It is 100% of the rest of the market which includes the stuff I posted about earlier (100% of honda civics and accords, next year's toyotas, other cars come with it, 90% of aftermarket in-dash players, dvd players which don't support mpeg4, etc etc.. the list goes on.) The market for these integrated devices is much much larger than the market for iPods and other portable mp3 players. When you factor cellphones which support mp3 ringtones, it gets even worse. Now you are talking about deploying mp3 ability to the masses, something even the ipod can't claim to be doing.

      You can't expect people to use only one device when accessing their digital music. Anybody who is isn't a heavy or average user, as the whole point of it is to make it portable and convenient. Something that doesn't happen when you are stuck with a collection full of AAC's or WMA's, DRM or not.

      --
      Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
    32. Re:Argh by evilviper · · Score: 1

      This is all a moot point. It doesn't matter how far and wide MP3 may be accepted. What matters is that there are a lot of people that will be using DRM-free AAC (or WMA), which therefore nullifies these results completely.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    33. Re:Argh by mp3phish · · Score: 1

      You offer no argument even granting that "a lot of people" will be using it at some point. In fact, my argument has nothing to do with how far and wide MP3 has gone. It is all about the fact that you cannot use AAC or WMA when using multiple devices to play your music because neither has penetrated the market enough to be accepted on most players. Even the iPod doesn't account for most players out there. And WMA as you said is only on 20% of the portable market (but with more penetration on fixed devices).

      Your argument is non-existant. These codecs are not currently in widespread use, and will not be for some time. Making a claim that they are and will doesn't change the facts.

      --
      Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
    34. Re:Argh by evilviper · · Score: 1
      It is all about the fact that you cannot use AAC or WMA when using multiple devices to play your music because neither has penetrated the market enough to be accepted on most players.

      It doesn't matter. People with iPods don't care that they can't just burn their AAC files to CDs and play them in their DVD players. There is a balkanizing effect, with each person using what format is supported by their own player, and their own hardware. Very few are actively trying to be backwards-compatible, because they listen to ALL their music on their iPods, and their computers, AND NOTHING ELSE (or their burn their song to a standard CD, which any device can play).

      Still, this is completely and totally besides the point. You still haven't gotten it. Quite a few people ARE using AAC. It doesn't matter how compatibile it is, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE USING IT. It's a FACT, which all this bullshit can't change. If you don't believe it, do a few searches on Gnutella/Kazaa/etc. It is very simply a FACT that people are using AAC without DRM, so the test results are bullshit.

      Since this very simple concept isn't getting through you're head, I'm just wasting my time.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    35. Re:Argh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      90% of all hard drive and large flash drive based hardware players use...

      CPUs.

      Not ASICs. The amount of ignorance on this point in this comments section is astounding.

      iPod's use ARM7TDMIs on PP50xx's, which some iRivers use (other IRivers are Coldfires). I don't know what the Zens use.

  22. Not because of DRM by default+luser · · Score: 5, Informative

    Mp3, as it turns out, is a lot easier to decode than wma and other later-generation formats. The fact that you have to use mpeg4 or wma with your DRMed purchase is just an unwanted side-effect.

    That said, it is one reason I only play mp3s on my portable player. LAME has brought a level of quality to the mp3 format that none thought possible, and it keeps up suprisingly well with "more advanced" codecs. I see no reason to use anything else...it plays everywhere, and uses less battery life.

    --

    Man is the animal that laughs.
    And occasionally whores for Karma.

    1. Re:Not because of DRM by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 1

      Or depending on implementation, AAC can use less resources than MP3.

      It really does depend on the implementation as much as the technology.

    2. Re:Not because of DRM by evilviper · · Score: 1
      LAME has brought a level of quality to the mp3 format that none thought possible, and it keeps up suprisingly well with "more advanced" codecs. I see no reason to use anything else...

      It is a lot better than any other MP3 encoder, but it still fall far short of newer codecs like Vorbis (even despite the years of stagnation of Vorbis development).

      I reason is, because a device with twice the storage (to use higher-bitrate MP3s instead of Vorbis) would cost a lot more... And, even at the highest bitrates, LAME still can't do as well as modern codecs at 128, on some materials.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    3. Re:Not because of DRM by darkmeridian · · Score: 1

      Read this post: Here.

      More advanced algorithms use more processor time on the compression part but not necesarily on the decompression (playback) part. For instance, FLAC takes forever to compress music, but takes minimal CPU time to decode. Developers of codecs have every incentive to get their code to playback with minimal CPU exertion because of the embedded processors on most portable media devices.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
  23. Apples to Apples : Oranges to Oranges by jokewallpaper · · Score: 1, Redundant
    From The Cult Of Mac Blog" http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac:
    But as one commentator on the story points out, the test compared protected WMA files with unprotected MP3 files. It should have compared protected-WMA to unprotected WMA, or Apple's FairPlay AAC versus unprotected AAC.
  24. Nobody mentioned OGG by neildiamond · · Score: 1

    As I've heard the free and clear Ogg format lowers battery life too.

    1. Re:Nobody mentioned OGG by bloodmusic · · Score: 5, Funny

      As everyone on Slashdot knows, playing Ogg Vorbis files actually charges your battery.

    2. Re:Nobody mentioned OGG by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It depends on the player. The big advantage that MP3 has is that there's inexpensive hardware decoder chips available for it, so you don't even need much of a CPU in order to add MP3 playback to your electronic device. This is how most MP3 car stereos, portable CD players, etc. work.

      Ogg has no hardware decoder, and to my knowledge, neither do WMA and AAC. So a portable device decoding any of these formats would have to use general-purpose CPU power to decode these formats, rather than idling the CPU and just feeding the stream to the (far more efficient) hardware decoder. Assuming, of course, that your player has a hardware decoder.

    3. Re:Nobody mentioned OGG by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Chuck Norris is in Ogg Vorbis format.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:Nobody mentioned OGG by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 1
      As everyone on Slashdot knows, playing Ogg Vorbis files actually charges your battery.

      Yes, but can it stop the crying?

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    5. Re:Nobody mentioned OGG by electr01nik · · Score: 1

      It depends on the player. The big advantage that MP3 has is that there's inexpensive hardware decoder chips available for it, so you don't even need much of a CPU in order to add MP3 playback to your electronic device. This is how most MP3 car stereos, portable CD players, etc. work.

      Ogg has no hardware decoder, and to my knowledge, neither do WMA and AAC. So a portable device decoding any of these formats would have to use general-purpose CPU power to decode these formats, rather than idling the CPU and just feeding the stream to the (far more efficient) hardware decoder. Assuming, of course, that your player has a hardware decoder.

      So, just out of curiosity, you couldn't use something like this(pdf ~>html over google) as the base for for your MP3 player?

    6. Re:Nobody mentioned OGG by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      So, just out of curiosity, you couldn't use something like this(pdf ~>html over google) as the base for for your MP3 player?

      Interesting. I guess you could. Of course, this thing looks like it's not even in production, since I couldn't actually find a link to it anywhere on vlsi.fi's website. And remember, when an IC finally does go into production, it can take a while for it to start appearing in products because then the companies that make end-user products have to try it out, create prototypes with it, decide to use it, make final designs, validate the designs, etc., and this process can take a year or more. It speeds things up some if the IC maker works with these customers and gives them early prototype samples, but still.

      BTW, there's no need to post a link using any pdf->html convertor. PDF is an open standard, and those of us with advanced browsers like Konqueror can read PDF files natively.

    7. Re:Nobody mentioned OGG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not very knowledgeable if you think there are no hardware AAC decoders.

  25. Ah, finally... by moochfish · · Score: 4, Funny

    Finally, a true "iPod Killer."

    1. Re:Ah, finally... by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't let Chuck Norris hear you saying that...

      If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  26. Re:Is this an objective story? by rocketpig · · Score: 1, Funny

    In Soviet Russia, DRM drains you!

    Sorry, somebody had to say it.

  27. Consumer awareness! Re:solution by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 1
    What we need then is some sort of specialized DRM chip-set

    No! You got it all wrong! What we need is more consumers with brains - let them keep their protected content; don't prolong the death of the music industry unnecessarily. Instead, support fair distribution and artist compensation models! TFA would be just one more (tiny) reason to do so.

    --
    I hope I didn't brain my damage.
  28. What is this? by The+Hobo · · Score: 1

    Still no idea what this is supposed to be

    Can someone enlighten me?

    --
    There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
    1. Re:What is this? by amazon10x · · Score: 1

      Well, it appears to be some sort of one-time pad.

    2. Re:What is this? by The+Hobo · · Score: 1

      Thank you sir

      --
      There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
  29. The problem isn't DRM. It's the DMCA. by Theovon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The recording industry finds that their copyrighted material is being pirated, so they implement ways to limit pirating. (No one mentions that most of the piracy is being done in 3rd world countries, costing record producers many times what it costs them in the US, but we'll let discuss that later.)

    As far as I'm concerned, LET them. The problem is not the DRM. It's the fact that it's illegal to BREAK the DRM. Wouldn't that defeat the point of having DRM, you ask? For many people, yes. For many people, no. DRM would discourage many people from breaking it simply because it's inconvenient. But being allowed to break it when necessary allows many people to make "fair use" of the recordings in ways that the DRM would otherwise prevent.

    It's all about balance. If the DRM people want to use technical means to screw us, we should be allowed to use technical means to unscrew outselves. This is no different from us using SPAM filters to fight spammers. We should be able to use anti-DRM programs to fight the recording industry.

  30. in China.... by victorvodka · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am reminded of the Chinese policy of charging the family of the executed for the price of the bullet used in the execution. In other words, something bad is done to you and you are asked to pay for the price of the administration of the badness as well as experiencing the badness itself.

    --

    The flag just makes more sense than the constitution. - Judas Gutenberg

  31. I hope the French...... by 8127972 · · Score: 1

    ...... use this as another reason to Open iTunes!

    --
    This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
  32. Misleading Headline: 8% vs 25% by GiSqOd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A good summary of the CNet study is at http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13193.

    The Slashdot headline/summary is a little misleading. The test showed that Apple's FairPlay DRM caused about an 8% battery life penalty. It was the Zen Micro with the WMA DRM that caused a 25% drop in battery life. In this case, (if you HAVE to have DRM'd music), it seems Apple's scheme is the way to go.

    Some people have raised the issue that they compared 192kbps WMA files with 128kbps AAC (i.e. iTMS) files. AAC, in general, sounds pretty good at 128kbps. (Geek Disclosure Time): I've run a few double-blind, multi-listener tests, and most people put 128 AAC about equal with 192 MP3 (constant bitrate). I have no idea whether 192 WMA is overkill - if that's what Napster provides, well, I'm assuming that's comparable sound quality.

    I'm not an engineer, so I can't say whether or not the bitrate difference could reasonably account for that great a difference in battery drain. I will, however, note that if you choose to use a less-efficient codec, that's your fault.

  33. aacPlus? by uncl_bob · · Score: 1

    Is it possible to encode aacPlus files without DRM? If so, why aren't more people doing so, because for what I understand it outperforms both mp3Pro and ogg. Maybe Coding Technologies have patented the shit out of SBR?

    1. Re:aacPlus? by ClamIAm · · Score: 1
      Is it possible to encode aacPlus files without DRM? If so, why aren't more people doing so, because for what I understand it outperforms both mp3Pro and ogg.

      I don't understand why you're comparing an audio encoding format with a media container format. (hint: you can put FLAC audio in OGG files, and those definitely beat aacPlus)

    2. Re:aacPlus? by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      Because most people don't know the difference between 'ogg' and 'vorbis'.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    3. Re:aacPlus? by ClamIAm · · Score: 1

      Ah, I see. It's better to perpetuate misinformation than to tell the truth.

  34. Comparing MP3 to WMA in general isn't useful tho by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'd expect at any given bitrate WMA takes more power to play than MP3. Why? More complex format. Same is true for OGG or AAC. They do more advanced processing, and thus require more CPU power to decode. Same holds true for MP3 vs PCM. I remember back in the 486 days, I couldn't play MP3s in full quality mode, but I could play 44.1kHz 16-bit WAVs fine.

    Now it might be interesting to see the difference in drain between equal bitrate MP3s and WMAs, however you then have to factor in quality. While WMA certianly doesn't offer the "CD quality at 64kbps" MS likes to say, it does offer better sound than MP3 at a given bitrate.

    As the GPP said: A real comparison for DRM is to take an equal bit rate WMA file of the same version, and have one with DRM and one without, and then test them. That's the only way to test it's actual battery impact. If you let confounding factors creep in, then the test is worthless.

  35. This is exactly what Wired said... by Errandboy+of+Doom · · Score: 1

    Apologies to anyone who doesn't just have CNet on their Google Homepage:

    http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/

    Yay, attribution!

  36. Apple? by jlraptor · · Score: 1

    Why is this posted under "Apple" if the article talks about Napster and Rhapsody?

  37. Because Apple is DRM market leader ... by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why is this in the apple section?

    Because Apple is the market leader with respect to digital audio content delivery, playback, and DRM. I realize it's new and confusing to not be the underdog, but this is the price for being the top dog.

    1. Re:Because Apple is DRM market leader ... by falcon5768 · · Score: 0
      doesnt matter. This is a problem across the board about DRM, just because Apple happens to use it on iTunes files in no way means this should be in the Apple slashdot section as they arnt the only ones who use it (and worse it makes it out to be Apple DRM reduces battery life by 25%... no TFA clearly shows that Apples only reduces it by 7%.

      Hell it shouldnt even be in the Microsoft section... this is if anything a hardware story since its about the power consumption.

      --

      "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

  38. Re:Comparing MP3 to WMA in general isn't useful th by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    Right, but the format isn't the point. The point (as far as I can tell) is this:

    "If you buy your music legally, your batteries are going to die sooner."

    It doesn't really matter if this is due to decoding the encryption or the fact that you can't reencode at a lower bitrate; the point stands either way.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  39. Re:Comparing MP3 to WMA in general isn't useful th by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    All my foes are spelling or grammar Nazis.

    And I think you lack the understanding of what it means to be a Nazi. They didn't just go around correcting people. It was a little worse than that.

  40. Actually... by Falkentyne · · Score: 1

    They played on hour fears!!!!

    I believe those fears to be my newt.

  41. WTF does this have to do with Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why is this in the Apple category? Last time I checked, Apple doesn't use Windows Media Player for their store or audio playback.

    Or did I miss a memo?

    1. Re:WTF does this have to do with Apple? by pintomp3 · · Score: 1

      the article mentions itunes acc files. being that itunes is the largest distributor of drmed music files, i guess it's easy to file under apple.

  42. Solution: downsample to reduce the bitrate! by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    Oh, wait...

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  43. Re:Misleading Headline: 8% vs 25% by Keeper · · Score: 0, Redundant

    The quality of a 192kbps WMA file is far, far superior to that of a 128kbps mp3.

  44. a whole array of problems by White+Yeti · · Score: 1

    It will also drink all your beer and give you Dutch Elm disease. Over here is more, equally vital information.

  45. Re:Comparing MP3 to WMA in general isn't useful th by k_187 · · Score: 1

    no, because I can choose to encode my legal music in WMA, thus unless it is specifically the DRM stuff in the file that is causing the extra battery dranage, it is possible for legally purchased music to take the extra battery life. WMA != napster and the like

    --
    11 was a racehorse
    12 was 12
    1111 Race
    12112
  46. Re:Comparing MP3 to WMA in general isn't useful th by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Well, unless you buy your legal music in MP3 format, which many indy sites sell. Or if you download your illegal music in OGG or AAC format, which you can also do.

    The point is nothing, the point is this study is worthless. Trying to create some kind of false generlization to legal vs illegal music downloads is just as big a flaw in logic.

  47. On the plus side by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    On the plus side, content creators' rights are protected from rampant piracy.

    That is a plus side...right? Guys? Hello? *crickets chirping*

    I forgot, nobody gives a shit about the artists, so we have to invent cute little experiments where files with non-equivalent bitrates are compared, so we can scream "DRM REDUCES BATTERY LIFE!" in some vain attempt to bash DRM yet again. My bad.

    --
    "Sufferin' succotash."
    1. Re:On the plus side by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Artists are quite happy with mp3 - most independent music is mp3 encoded not wmv/drm.

      The people who are pushing this are the large record producers - because their precious business model (buy cheap, sell expensive via a limited number of record stores) is going down the toilet fast. The want to control distribution just like they used to... I say fuck 'em - I buy direct from the artists or from distributors with clue. Haven't darkened the door of a record store in over a year now.

    2. Re:On the plus side by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While the 'DRM reduces Battery life' is a non issue, DRM has exactly nothing to do with artists. It is a vain attempt to save a business model, nothing more.

      Guess what? every song no the radio can be downloaded off a p2p network right now, and it's been that way for at least 6 years.
      Artists are still getting paid, and the music company is still making money.
      Don't make the mistake that this can, in any way, help artists. It is a waste of money for the record companies to even try, since it is impossible to completly lock people out of any data stream.

      I wonder if the music company charges the artisits for the 'DRM Servicing' of their music?

      Nt to mention, many songs are engineered towards what the label wants to here, not what artists want to sound like.
      If anyone in this scenerio doesn't care about artists, it's the label.

      iTunes has had a billion downloads, clearly if those people were predisposed to get music from the internet for free, they could ahve done so.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:On the plus side by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 1
      I forgot, nobody gives a shit about the artists, so we have to invent cute little experiments where files with non-equivalent bitrates are compared, so we can scream "DRM REDUCES BATTERY LIFE!" in some vain attempt to bash DRM yet again. My bad.

      Dude, what the fuck? This is a technical issue, one has nothing to do with the other. Get off the box, there's a different thread for that.

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    4. Re:On the plus side by freeweed · · Score: 1

      Do you get paid to post flamebait?

      Seriously, it's all I've ever seen this account do.

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    5. Re:On the plus side by Hosiah · · Score: 1
      and it's been that way for at least 6 years.

      Come to that, we've been taping cassettes off the radio and CDs and bootlegged from concerts for, what, 25 years, now?

    6. Re:On the plus side by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      The artists aren't affected by piracy. The artists rarely see more than a few cents of any album sold(only a few indie companies give more--usually then the artists want people to hear them so they'll buy their next album more than trying to squeeze every cent of profit out of that one). The artists make money from going on concert and selling stuff there--they get much larger cuts of the profit there.
      Basically, unless you're say, Green Day, the money you get from album sales is negligable. And if you're Green Day, it's still negligable compared to your concert profits. Why don't Green Day and such only do concerts then? My guess would be contracts.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  48. This just in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wireless networking and backlights suck the life out of laptop batteries. Best to turn off these features...

  49. Not so! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    My MP3 player doesn't play WMA with DRM, so DRM increases my battery life almost infinitely.

    1. Re:Not so! by Steve001 · · Score: 1

      I think a related issue to this is the short-battery life in most portable players, a result of the need to make the players and batteries as small as possible. It seems like even the smallest factor works to decrease battery life. But a question comes to mind: Why is this necessary?

      If a device has a battery life of only six hours then even a slight increase in the power drain can dramatically cut the battery life. But if a device has a charge that lasts 24 hours, a loss of an hour or two is not that big a deal to the average user. This could reduce the impact of factors like the codex, DRM, and the bitrate.

      With the iPod, I'd be willing to have a larger (size-wise) iPod in exchange for a longer battery life. I take a Sony CD player to work and I can usually get more than 24 hours of play time on a single AA battery when playing MP3 files (per the instruction book it can get up to 41 hours on a single AA if playing ATRAC3 files). The play time is so long that I rarely think of having the change the battery.

      Concerning battery life, I'm of the opinion once a device has a play time of more than 16 hours on a single charge, battery life ceases to be a concern because it can playing during all of your waking hours and can be charged while you sleep.

      Returning to the topic at hand, I think on of the reasons that the concern over DRM reducing the battery life of players is that the battery life of players itself is an issue.

      Thanks for reading.

  50. Re:Comparing MP3 to WMA in general isn't useful th by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny


      All my foes are spelling or grammar Nazis.

    And I think you lack the understanding of what it means to be a Nazi. They didn't just go around correcting people. It was a little worse than that.


    All my foes are spelling, grammar, or Nazi Nazis.

  51. Of course why not go one step further by Trogre · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just use Ogg Vorbis and get better quality for less bitrate.

    Oh, and forget about DRM or the need to pay evil patent royalties to Fraunhoffer/Thomson.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  52. Kinda like windows.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows (R)(TM)(C) always runs your drive ...
    microsoft owes me a new laptop harddrive!
    damn them..damn them all to hell!

  53. Re:The problem isn't DRM. It's the DMCA. by dr.badass · · Score: 1

    But being allowed to break it when necessary allows many people to make "fair use" of the recordings in ways that the DRM would otherwise prevent.

    There is no reason that a properly designed DRM system would prevent fair use. iTunes/FairPlay tracks, to use the best example, are intended to have the DRM removed for those fair use purposes where the DRM cannot be preserved -- the only caveat being that you can't do it losslessly. This, I think, is probably the right way to go. Is there some fair use precedent that says you have to be able to make use of the recording losslessly?

    As much as I think the DMCA is a highly abuse-prone law, I think the better and more probable solution is sensible DRM systems that you never need to break to exercise your rights.

    We should be able to use anti-DRM programs to fight the recording industry.

    Actually, you should use your money to tell them what you will and won't accept. I think that's the way it's supposed to work.

    --
    Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
  54. While.. by AWhiteFlame · · Score: 1

    While this may be true, a typical AAC from iTunes is higher quality than a standard gnutella-floating MP3.

    >.>

    --
    "Everything worth innovating today will go to court tomorrow."
    1. Re:While.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you haven't heard of usenet? no, shut your mouth!

    2. Re:While.. by angrykeyboarder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Only if your careless or ignorant. Search for a popular song on any P2P network and you'll find umpteen files with the same song on them. The difference often being different bitrates. For example, I just did a search on a popular song and find bitrates ranging from 96 to 192 Kb/s.

      I'd never accept anything under 160.

      --
      Scott

      ©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
  55. DRM Decryption uses almost no cpu by DJScrib · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When you first open up a DRM file to play it, yes a little bit of processing occurs right then doing public/private key decryption to unlock the RC4 encryption key used to decrease the rest of the file. This however is probably about the same amount of juice as is required to play 1/10 a second of audio. During actual audio playback the players are doing an RC4 block cipher decryption operation. That's a linear time operation on par with generating a modulus for 8 bits. Meaning it's basically nothing compared to the horsepower needed to convert from compressed audio to waveform pcm audio. The article review is a crock of crap.

    1. Re:DRM Decryption uses almost no cpu by DaCool42 · · Score: 1

      Just because it is a simple operation doesn't mean that their code to do it is efficient.

      --

      ----
      All of whose base are belong to the what-now?
  56. Comparing Apples to Sonys by AeroIllini · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Putting aside for a moment that the article itself is more about battery life of various players than about the affect of DRM on battery life, the few statements made about DRM and battery life came from a very flawed test. The authors never tested un-DRMed AAC or WMA, to account for the higher processing needed to decode the more complicated file formats.

    But, in the interest of science, I would like to see DRM's real affect on battery life in portable music players. Here is the test I propose:

    Purchase a 128kbps AAC/Fairplay track from iTunes.
    Purchase the same track as a 192kbps WMA/DRM 10 from Napster.
    Rip the same track from CD, and create five versions:
    - 44.1kHz wav
    - 128kbps mp3
    - 192kbps mp3
    - 128kbps AAC (clean - no FairPlay)
    - 192kbps WMA (clean - no DRM 10)

    Now we have seven tracks to test, two with DRM, two identical without DRM, one as a control, and two for bitrate studies. For each track:
    - set the volume on max
    - turn off the backlight
    - plug in a set of standard earbud headphones
    - load the track on the player while the player is plugged in
    - make sure the track is the only thing on the hard drive
    - place the track in its own playlist and set to infinite repeat
    - press play at the moment you unplug the power cord
    - time how long it takes for the battery to run out
    - plug the player back in and charge to full

    Ideally, this test should be run several times for each track on the exact same player, in the same order every time, to correct for possible changes in the amount of charge the battery can hold. It might be interesting to run the test on many different players, as well, and see how they fare.

    Does anyone at Slashdot own a player that can handle all three formats, and would be willing to conduct the tests?

    --
    For security, the MD5 hash of this message and sig is 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0.
    1. Re:Comparing Apples to Sonys by Steve001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The test sounds good. The only additions I would add are:

      • Include at least an hour's worth of tracks in all formats and include a mix of different music types.
      • Test the tracks on more than one type of player.

      The above would reduce the effect of a specific type of player on the results, and of a specific type of music (a heavy metal track might take more computing power to process than a piano solo track).

      What is interesting is that when I upgraded the software on my iPod the battery life on the player suddenly increased a great deal. I encode my MP3 files at 192kbs for music files and I was getting about six hours on a charge. After the software upgrade I suddenly had more than eight hours of life on a charge.

    2. Re:Comparing Apples to Sonys by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Ideally, this test should be run several times for each track on the exact same player, in the same order every time, to correct for possible changes in the amount of charge the battery can hold.
      That's complete and utter overkill.
      Why fuck around with a battery?

      Plug the rat bastard iPod into a power supply and measure the current drawn. If you have to butcher a USB connector to pull it off, so be it.

      If decoding DRM'ed files takes more 'power' then you'll see the difference immediately. If it makes you happy, you can run it for a few loops and take an average, but if your power supply isn't putting out dirty power, it shouldn't matter.

      If someone from Slashdot is going to do those tests, that's how they should do it. Lessened battery life is merely a by-product of more current being drawn. So the question isn't really "will this kill my battery," but instead, it's "do DRMed music files require more power."
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  57. Re:Bullshit....NOT by mp3phish · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You missed the point of the article completely. I don't care if the AAC or WMA DRM encryption takes up more processor power than non DRM AAC or WMA files. Or if they use the same, i couldn't care less. What Matters the most is that when you are listening to an MP3, and then you downlaod the same song on iTunes, and the battery life is 8% less.

    Nobody in their right mind would use AAC or WMA for non-encrpyted files, so why would that be the only fair comparrison? WMA/AAC files do not work in most DVD players. WMA/AAC files do not work in most in-dash mp3 players in cars. WMA/AAC files do not work on most portable devices such as phones and PDA's. WMA/AAC files do not work on almost ANYTHING other than their respective x86 operating system/applications combinations and their respective portable players (Sandisk/Creative -> plays4sure and ipod -> Fairplay)

    While it might be interesting to see the actual battery life on a nonDRM vs DRM WMA or AAC file, it has nothing to do with every day usage and it has nothing to do with practical real world use. It is simply a benchmark that would never be reflected in the real world. So the article stands correct, legitimate, and honest. I suppose they could have used VBR mp3's, or 192kbps mp3's, but we all know that the outcome would be the same (192 doesn't make much diff over 128).

    --
    Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
  58. "Apple: DRM Reduces Battery Life" by BarnabyWilde · · Score: 1

    "Apple: DRM Reduces Battery Life" Looked at first like Apple was saying this. Bad "journalism" style.

  59. No, the cat does not "got my tongue." by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1, Troll

    > Heavy DRM not only slows down an MP3 player but
    > also sucks the very life out of them

    Much like a lack of DRM sucks the very life out of the music industry.

    For my pithy comment, I humbly await troll, flamebait, or other downmodification by angered, hmmmmm, let's ensure it by poking at the sacred cow, await downmodification by angered five finger discount specialists.

    I raise my chin and expose my throat in your general direction.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:No, the cat does not "got my tongue." by faedle · · Score: 1

      Funny. The "music industry" seems to have done fine for the last 90 or so years without any sort of DRM.

    2. Re:No, the cat does not "got my tongue." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are boring.

    3. Re:No, the cat does not "got my tongue." by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Funny. The "music industry" seems to have done fine for
      > the last 90 or so years without any sort of DRM.

      Yes, but human's ability to share and copy around music is just a few angstroms away from total virtual reality manipulation ability. They could swap and copy alboms in minutes, if not seconds.

      The sheer ability absolutely dwarfs the '70's with cassette copying.

      To look into the future a bit, imagine a teleportation/duplication type device. It's the difference between the current, "Well, you can go make or copy your own car" by getting out welding equipment, and pushing a button.

      [b]We are at the button-push stage for music.[/b] That is the difference.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    4. Re:No, the cat does not "got my tongue." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much like a lack of DRM sucks the very life out of the music industry.

      That's a stupid argument, the kind of thing I expect to hear from an RIAA consultant. Every time a new technology comes along the movie and music industries whine like little babbies, saying "how are we going to make money if people can copy our stuff?". The music industry did this when tape records came out, and the movie industry did this when vcr's came out. And now look, both of these industries are full of "fat cats" who are obviously doing very well for them selves!

      The music industry is LOADED with cash, and DRM is just starting to get used. Most CDs have NO DRM protection yet muscicians are still making PLENTY off of CD sales! Sure, DRM might help force a few sales here and there, but I don't see it changing much except for taking away the customers fair use rights! In the long run it is possible (and I am hoping for) DRM will actually have a negative impact on sales due to customer outrage and backlash against the industry for: A> Assuming everyone is a criminal and treating them as such, and B> Hindering their rights to fair use of content they have paid for!

      Perhaps you are a greedy musician? If your focus in on the money and not the music, well, honestly I feel you deserve to fail and loose money...

    5. Re:No, the cat does not "got my tongue." by faedle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And you still haven't demonstrated why this is a problem.

      Time and time again, it comes down to the fact that nobody has ever proven that the availalibility of illegal copies of something ever really truly makes a big impact in the sales of the legitimate product. In fact, the contrary seems to be true: that digital "illegal" copies of music, movies, TV shows, whatever seems to be able to drive sales of the product.

      Increasingly, this is more about the Content Cartel's control of the pipeline. Digital media can make anybody a distributor, and that's what they fear. Not that Johnny Napster is going to post the Metallica CD that he bought at Target, but that their entire business model of screwing over both artists and patrons is in jeopardy.

      "Piracy" creates competition for their cartel-like pricing schemes and artist-screwing contracts. Time and time again the record industry (as a prime example) has demonstrated that they operate like a monopoly cartel: price fixing, immoral contracts, etc. They're scared shitless that they might actually have to treat artists fairly and price their product at a competitive price point.

  60. Re:Not a misleading article by mp3phish · · Score: 1

    A way to think of it more objectively is to consider that the DRM files force you to use this specific codec (either WMA or AAC) at this specific bitrate. You have no choice in the matter if you are going to use these files. Whereas, if you use regular mp3 files (or another format of your choosing, mp3 happening to be the most popular therefore most benchmarked against) then you get a better battery life. The article is comparing regular files which are readilly available and the most popular vs. DRM'd files which you have no choice in bitrate or format. Since nobody would be encoding their music using AAC or WMA when not forced to use DRM, then why should the control group (by definition, the group using no-DRM MP3 files) be forced to use a proprietary format which is not readilly available for use and is not going to be used in the real world?

    You missed the point of the article completely. It doesn't matter if the AAC or WMA DRM encryption takes up more processor power than non DRM AAC or WMA files. Or if they use the same. What matters is that when you are listening to an MP3, and then you downlaod the same song on iTunes or walmart.com, and the battery life is 8%-25% less.

    Nobody in their right mind would use AAC or WMA for non-encrpyted files, so why would that be the only fair comparrison? WMA/AAC files do not work in most DVD players. WMA/AAC files do not work in most in-dash mp3 players in cars. WMA/AAC files do not work on most portable devices such as phones and PDA's. WMA/AAC files do not work on almost ANYTHING other than their respective x86 operating system/applications combinations and their respective portable players (Sandisk/Creative -> plays4sure and ipod -> Fairplay)

    Sure, you could make a control group which uses WMA files and then compare it to the variant group which uses DRM WMA files, but then you would be focusing your study on about .01% of the population rather than pretty much everyone who is already using MP3's.

    --
    Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
  61. Author admits flawed methodology by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    In one of the TalkBack posts, James Kim (the author) wrote,

    It's true that an apples-to-apples comparison (ie WMA vs. WMA DRM) would have been more telling... We will continue to test players and soon do a true and more complete comparison of WMA vs WMA DRM, AAC vs Fairplay AAC, and so on.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  62. lies! by sxtxixtxcxh · · Score: 1

    everyone knows ogg vorbis is in chuck norris format.

    --
    for a minute there, i lost myself...
  63. a reason?? by 3.14159265 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Yet another reason to stick with plain old MP3 files."

    ?!?! Was there ever a reason *not* to choose mp3 (or ogg, e.g.)?
    More importantly, was there ever a reason to choose WMA+DRM (or WMA even w/o DRM...)?

  64. haha, I just noticed by geekoid · · Score: 1

    your nick.
    Well played sir, well played.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  65. Will people please stop with the "Mp3 vs. WMA"!!! by Kittie+Rose · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Argh! I got the idea after the first 142489.4 replies. Can people are least quickly flick through comments when they've made such an obvious observation, thinking they're so clever, and explaining it in that calm but nerdy +5 manner? How can something be "Insightful" if every bloody person sees the same thing!

    --
    EpiAdv - if you like Pokey the Penguin, try this comic!
  66. Re:Comparing MP3 to WMA in general isn't useful th by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 1

    it does offer better sound than MP3 at a given bitrate

    Unless you're like me and have double blind tests that show that LAME sounds better. Of course, this is to my ears, but your milage may vary. Just because something has a more complex format doesn't necessarily mean that it's "better quality" at a lower bitrate.

  67. Re:Misleading Headline: 8% vs 25% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guy asks a question and gets answered, but the answer is marked as redundant. Moderation trolling at it's best folks.

  68. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  69. MOD PARENT UP by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

    Bingo, couldn't say it better myself.
          Brett

  70. DRM certainly isn't a fact of life. by Kittie+Rose · · Score: 1

    It's just a fact of capitalist greed and blatant disregard for the consumer. The record company is doing fine, they should cut their losses instead of making a move that is likely to backfire entirely.

    --
    EpiAdv - if you like Pokey the Penguin, try this comic!
  71. Re:Comparing MP3 to WMA in general isn't useful th by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MS likes to say, it does offer better sound than MP3 at a given bitrate

    Does it? I've always found it hard to tell the difference between work of a really top quality mp3 encoder, and Microsoft's WMA encoder. Like most things "lossy", it really depends on which encoder you use. Use a shitty mp3 encoder and you'll get crap.

    WMA, being a next gen format along with Vorbis/AAC etc etc, probably has more headroom... but I'm fucked if I can tell for most things.

  72. And.. by Inoshiro · · Score: 1

    The 128kbit AAC file is still noticably more lossy than a 256k VBR MP3 file.

    I tried having iTunes resample my MP3s to give fairness to my Shuffle, and it was not worth the quality loss.

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
    1. Re:And.. by theurge14 · · Score: 1

      VBR or CBR AAC file? That makes a noticeable difference.

      The file size savings are well worth it for we Shuffle users, not even to mention the wider EQ and more sophisticated sampling methods of AAC compared to MP3. I for one cannot wait until the MP3 format is obselete.

  73. My own experience... by citizenklaw · · Score: 1, Informative

    I own a Sony Hi-MD Music Player. I bought this unit before the rootkit fiasco, and to be honest is one of the best purchases I've made in electronics.

    I bought this because I'm a clutz with electronics. In 2001 I changed cell phones 4 times. All of them I misplaced, lost or utterly destroyed. I'm lucky that my employer changed them every time. So I figured that my music player should have very few moving parts. Back then flash players were a bit limited. The iPod Nano was at least 8 months away.

    So far my experience has been good, if you set aside that Sony's first Connect software was utter trash. The current version (3.4) is quite good. I don't buy music online from Sony, or from iTunes for that matter. Most of my burning I do from my own collection, and some Podcasts. Often, the software won't transfer MP3's to the discs but this happens 90% of the time on Podcasts

    The player takes a single AA battery. This often lasts for up to two+ weeks under normal use (e.g.: Bus/Train to and from work, at work). I don't know what kind of processing power the unit has but I don't think it's too much.

    And in case you're wondering, I get 1GB per Hi-MD disc (350MB per normal MiniDisc). I've squeezed 20+ CD's in a single Hi-MD.

    --
    the future is but past forgotten
  74. It won't work by tkrotchko · · Score: 1

    Even if you overcame the technical hurdles, there are other problems... if I want to sell my DRM'd songs to someone else, in theory, this is easy. I'm un-authorized and the buyer is authorized. But in fact, the record companies don't do this and consider it a *feature* that I can't transfer ownership.

    I frankly think they'd be better off with digital signatures of songs that didn't prevent any amount of copying. Because most people wouldn't be willing to put a song on the P2P network if it had their name and address embedded in the file. But again, one of the "features" of DRM is that it does limit my legitimate use and allows the record companies to control how and when I listen to my songs.

    That's why DRM will never really work with the public at large. It makes something simple (listen to a CD, loan it to a friend, rip it to use on iPod) into something complicated with rules that never existed before.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
    1. Re:It won't work by dr.badass · · Score: 1

      I frankly think they'd be better off with digital signatures of songs that didn't prevent any amount of copying. Because most people wouldn't be willing to put a song on the P2P network if it had their name and address embedded in the file.

      That's not much different from the way things currently are. You can put FairPlay-encrypted tracks on P2P networks as easily as any other file. There is no limit to the number of copies.

      But more importantly, simple "digital signatures" wouldn't work because then anybody could remove them with even less hassle than DRM. And if they were encrypted or embedded in some way that applications wouldn't play it without the signature in place, you would have to have to somehow ensure they're all "trusted" applications -- you would have just reinvented DRM.

      It makes something simple (listen to a CD, loan it to a friend, rip it to use on iPod) into something complicated with rules that never existed before.

      Like what? If I burn a CD of DRMed music, it no longer has DRM. Also, since when is letting your friends rip your CDs fair use?

      --
      Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
  75. Using idiots to your advantage #13934 by Moe_Fugger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Make the oblivious end user think that DRM is evil and with enough idiots it could make a difference. Just imagine all the pod people: WHAT?!! YOU MEAN DRM STUFF DRAINS THE JUICE OUT OF MY IPOD FASTER??!!!! ITS EVIL AND HAS TO BE STOPPED!!!!!!111! Maybe then the people could steer the impending DRM overlords away from the subject by brute force.

  76. Re:Is this an objective story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dipshit said

    Sorry, somebody had to say it.

    No.

    People parroting the same halfwit jokes time and time again do nothing but boost your post count and shit up thr thread.

    If you have nothing to stay, say nothing.

  77. iPods don't decode "in cpu", they have an ASIC by SuperBanana · · Score: 2, Informative
    They do more advanced processing, and thus require more CPU power to decode.

    The iPod doesn't use a CPU to decode anything it plays; it's all done by an ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) which handles the mp3, AAC, WAV, Apple-lossless, etc decompression.

    I suspect that the power used to decode equal-bitrate MP3 and AAC files is imperceptible...

    1. Re:iPods don't decode "in cpu", they have an ASIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The iPod doesn't use a CPU to decode anything it plays; it's all done by an ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) which handles the mp3, AAC, WAV, Apple-lossless, etc decompression.

      I suspect that the power used to decode equal-bitrate MP3 and AAC files is imperceptible...

      Hi, I work on the iPodlinux project. Instead of spewing bullshit as fact, I suggest you do a little research. All iPods except the shuffle have dual ARM7TDMI cores that do all of their audio decoding. The iPod video has a BCM chip in addition for video stuff. They do not use ASICs.

      I don't know how it is with the codecs Apple are using, but in our decoding stuff AAC uses less CPU than MP3. They can decode MP3 @ 33Mhz on both cores (clockable up to a theoretical max of 90Mhz) and its around the same or lower with AAC. Lossless is probably less (the open source version of ALAC isn't very optimised, however), but it requires longer disk access (less of a problem with solid state memory).

      Please don't spew bullshit.

  78. DRM good for SOMEthing? by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    zap your battery before you recharge it? Just run DRM-managed stuff for 1.5 hours via a script...

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  79. Possibly, but by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

    The first time I saw this post was in an article on Enigma.

    On the other hand, from what I've read of Enigma, that guy's post isn't Enigma-encrypted. I could be wrong though.

    It's probably an encrypted GNAA troll.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  80. Ogg Vorbis uses the most power, FLAC the least by Qbertino · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ogg Vorbis, due to it being a superior compression format needs quite some CPU power to decode. That's the reason not all players support it - because not all have the electronics to do it. FLAC is easiest - for obvious resons. The others are all spread somewhere inbetween.
    However I'd kinda expect Sonys ATRAC, the MiniDisk Compression format, to be the most power saving.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  81. Solution by qsqueeq · · Score: 0

    Burn DRM files to music CD.
    Rip music CD to MP3.
    Listen to MP3.
    Laugh.

    Sam

  82. Advanced formats are faster, not slower! by js_sebastian · · Score: 1
    AAC,WMA,Vorbis from everything i read use more CPU time to decode then a mp3 track
    Not really. Take a look here http://www.foobar2000.org/foospeed/.

    It seems that both AAC and MPC are faster cpu-wise than mp3 decoding. Vorbis is apparently slightly slower. Charts don't mention WMA. Why do you people assume newer standards use more CPU?? a newer, better algorithm will usually be faster, not slower, besides having better compression/quality results.

    I disagree that testing should be DRMed WMA vs non-DRMed WMA. Why should we use WMA, unless the DRM locks us into it? It should be DRMed WMA/AAC vs the best non-DRMed format available for comparable quality, since when we are not locked into a technology by DRM we can choose best-of-breed technology.
  83. Neato! by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 1

    That's a nifty bit of shell/awk-fu. Thanks!

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
  84. Re:Comparing MP3 to WMA in general isn't useful th by chorltonian · · Score: 1
    it does offer better sound than MP3 at a given bitrate
    Unless you're like me and have double blind tests that show that LAME sounds better. Of course, this is to my ears, but your milage may vary. Just because something has a more complex format doesn't necessarily mean that it's "better quality" at a lower bitrate.
    Off topic but you're right. Microsoft, masters of spin/hype that they are, invited people to compare MP3 with WMA9 when they first released it. They didn't mention the version of lame used to encode the MP3s was almost 3 years old. Everyone agreed of course, that the WMA clips sounded better. This "fact" seems to have stuck in everyone's mind ever since.
  85. No, he's an extremist. by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

    No, he apparently gets paid to proselytize that if you are against DRM in any way for any reason, you're a low-life, scumbag pirate who wrings your hands wondering from your waking hour how you can steal money from the artists' pockets. This also includes reasons that are 100% legal and are not meant to deprive artists of their rightful due, such as making backups for personal use. Doesn't matter. If you're against DRM, you're a pirate in his eyes.

    Think that's flamebait? Look at ANY post that he makes regarding DRM. He's a pro-DRM extremist and if you gdon't agree with him, he does everything that he can to label you a thief.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
  86. Computing drains battery power? by The+New+Stan+Price · · Score: 0

    I would have never guessed that computing drains battery power. How long did it take them to figure that out?

    Leftists are against DRM because they think everything should be "free". I am against DRM because I think that leftists make too much money over there on the left coast.
    I think we should take their "cribs" in Beverly Hills and Malibu and redistribute their wealth to the homeless that travel up and down Wilshire Blvd.
    Ask them if they think Robin Hood "did the right thing," first though just for kicks.

  87. Re:Bullshit....NOT by Carthag · · Score: 1
    Nobody in their right mind would use AAC or WMA for non-encrpyted files

    I'd say that's a bit of an overstatement. While I personally still use MP3, I know several people who have made an informed decision based on their own usage and decided that AAC fits their needs best. I don't know a great deal of Windows users, but I imagine there are some out there that actually enjoy WMA.

  88. What does CPU time have to do with battery life? by 5plicer · · Score: 1

    The CPU is going to keep cycling, whether you're playing music or not. Am I missing something here?

    --
    The bits on the bus go on and off... on and off... on and off...
  89. A retarded quote from the article by 5plicer · · Score: 1

    ...there are no DSP settings (such as the iPod's Sound Check) enabled...

    Sound Check is not DSP. Your iPod simply adjusts the gain on a per-track basis (not in realtime) based on metadata.

    --
    The bits on the bus go on and off... on and off... on and off...
  90. You know what really reduces battery life? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    Dupes.

    Dupes reduce battery life more than DRM.

  91. Duped article hat-trick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Congratulations, Slashdot. You have run 3 (three) duped articles in a row.

    Congratulations, Slashdot. You have run 3 (three) duped articles in a row.

    Congratulations, Slashdot. You have run 3 (three) duped articles in a row.

  92. Its easy to convert the files to non DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dummies!