The Mini-ITX Linux PVR Project

An anonymous reader writes "Home theater PCs have taken many shapes and forms, perhaps none more interesting than this Mini-ITX PVR. In part three of its Mini-ITX project, XYZ Computing has turned its Mini-ITX box into a Linux PVR, using Ubuntu and MythTV. This is a lot of computer in a very small package and designing it, putting it together, and then getting it to work was an interesting process. The article is a great guide for people who are interested in their own Mini-ITX Linux PVR, but also goes over the problems and pitfalls of a build like this."

Comments

One line summary

[fak3r]

It works, it's cool, just kind of a pain to build and more expensive than he wanted, but the DIY attraction and avoidance of fees make this an overall posititve experience for him. I'm still waiting for a distro that "just works" with a default PC you can buy, after throwing in a Haupage TV card. Plug in, boot from cdrom, try it out, like it, install it on HD...done. Is there such a thing yet, or should I wait for PVRuntu?

Re:One line summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Knoppmyth.

Bootable Knoppix live CD with most of the goodies pre-installed and auto-configured.

Re:One line summary

[TobyWong]

KnoppMyth gets pretty close to what you are describing:

http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html

It's not perfect but it's close to out-of-the-box.

It helps if you are careful when selecting your hardware to make sure it is well supported ahead of time (hauppauge is a good call).

Re:One line summary

[killeena]

Knoppmyth is pretty decent, in that most of what you need is already there, including all the modules like MythMusic, MythWeb, etc.... The only major issue is having to set up the ivtv drivers for the PVR-350 (if that is what you have).

Re:One line summary

[fak3r]

only major issue is having to set up the ivtv drivers for the PVR-350 (if that is what you have).

so using the 72$ 401 that I mention above solves this then?

Re:One line summary

[MRoharr]

I recommend MythDora, from the web site http://g-ding.tv/ :
"MythDora is a Fedora Core and MythTV "All-In-One" CD. The CD will load a preconfigured Fedora Core 4 installation on your computer as well as install and configure MythTV-0.19"

Re:One line summary

[thoth]

You can try KnoppMyth, which others have suggested, but be aware it isn't quite the silver bullet. Check out LWN's recent brief write up on MythTV and KnoppMyth in their March 9th weekly.

It is fair to note he also had the HD3000 card working as well. Ultimately, he went with Fedora Core 4 because of the great documentation.

Re:One line summary

[dan the person]

As mentioned there is Knoppmyth.

Personally, i installed ubuntu on a VIA EPIA mini-ITX board, and grabbed the precompiled .deb packages linked from the myth site.

I had a Kworld DVB TV card the cheapest i could find, and it just worked. zero setup for the card, just had to get myth to scan for channels (just like when you get a new TV).

Presumably knopmyth does more than save you 5mins selecting and installing the myth .debs?

Re:One line summary

[poolmeister]

Also Mythdora
(MythTV on top of FC4)

Re:One line summary

[spagetti_code]

Yes there is a distro you can do this with - Knoppmyth.

And by the way - this topic sounds very exciting, but lots of people are running myth on quiet EPIA mobos. Check out mythtv's hardware database. Its not new or even hard.

1. Buy mobo, case, HDD, encoder card, DVD. Or buy one of these pre-built ones
2. Plug it all in.
3. Insert knoppmyth CD.
4. install
5. ???
6. profit... errr... I mean watch TV.

How loud is the dvd drive?

[EggyToast]

My girlfriend's got a mac mini that's utterly silent... until you put a CD or DVD in. Then the motors whir up and the laser jumps around and it's almost obnoxious! Since the article only talks about "quiet" in a general sense, it doesn't seem like he paid much attention to the use of disc media -- rather, he focused on HDD noise and fan noise. While important, I know plenty of people will use such a device to rip CDs to, watch DVDs on, and so on. Myself included.

Otherwise it's a pretty neat little thing, and seems to work well w/o much hassle. I'm still skeptical of those slimline DVD drives in media computers, though...

Re:How loud is the dvd drive?

[Golias]

You have 2 alternatives for avoiding media noise on a Mac mini (or a G5 tower, which also makes a racket when spinning up disks), and neither is perfect:

1. Archive all DVD's on hard drives in another room. (That's what I do, not just to avoid the noise... Having my media library archived like this is pretty sweet in general.) On OS X, Mac the Ripper is probably the best tool. (Make sure to get a hold of the version 3 beta to get around newer DVD copy protection schemes.)

2. Plug a big external DVD drive, like the one from LaCie into the firewire port. Yeah, it's an extra box, but the mini + the DVD case still add up to less space than a typical component system DVD player.

Re:How loud is the dvd drive?

[Hektor_Troy]

I know how you feel - mine is also loud as hell when it starts spinning up. I don't remember the programs name, but I do remember a utility that was made to limit CD-drives to 24x (I think that was the speed at which the disc's started to shake), which made them almost silent.

Just limit the dvd-speed to something similar - if you're just watching a dvd movie you don't really need it to read at 16x - 2x is plenty fast.

Re:How loud is the dvd drive?

[m50d]

Rip, and then you don't need to worry about the drive when you're actually watching/playing. Or stream over the network from the drive upstairs.

Re:How loud is the dvd drive?

[DoogieSan]

Can't help on a Mac, but did run into the same problem with my own HTPC using Windows MCE. I found two utilities that allow you to control the speed of your optical drive, check them out if interested:

http://cdbremse.dyndns.org/cdbremse.htm - page and installation are in German, but tool has English menus. Tool is shareware, I believe the author will take payment in the form of crates of Pepsi Light.

http://www.cdspeed2000.com/go.php3?link=nerodrives peed.html - Nero DriveSpeed

Re:How loud is the dvd drive?

[Eccles]

1. Archive all DVD's on hard drives in another room.

In my experience, computer DVD playing programs don't support subtitles, etc., even when the folder layout is exactly that of the DVD, and when writing that data to an actual CD will allow the subtitles to work. With a hearing-impaired wife, this is a major issue for me. Is this just a peculiarity of PowerDVD (and possible WinDVD), or some bizarre restriction? Or can any DVD ripper rip the subtitles right onto the recording? I could live with permanent subtitles.

Re:How loud is the dvd drive?

[really?]

"rip" to ISO or bin/cue, you can then "mount" the ISO or bin/cue, and, for all intents and purposes, you have the original DVD.
There are other, better ways, but, this is pretty much guaranteed to have all the features of the original DVD.

Alternative

[Golias]

MythTV is very impressive, but not everybody wants to spend their weekend building a box from scratch and installing an OS on it.

Here's a (slightly more expensive) alternative for non-geeks:

1. Buy a Mac Mini

2. Plug a USB2 or Firewire tuner and the Keyspan USB remote sensor into it.

3. Install EyeTV software & Keyspan remote software (both included with the hardware.)

4. Set up your universal remote (your TV and/or receiver remote might be a programmable one. Otherwise there are plenty out there to choose from for about twenty bucks) to control both the TV tuner and all your Mac media apps.

Done.

Re:Alternative

[morgan_greywolf]

1. Buy a Mac Mini

2. Plug a USB2 or Firewire tuner and the Keyspan USB remote sensor into it.

3. Install EyeTV software & Keyspan remote software (both included with the hardware.)

4. Set up your universal remote (your TV and/or receiver remote might be a programmable one. Otherwise there are plenty out there to choose from for about twenty bucks) to control both the TV tuner and all your Mac media apps.


5. Watch as your new HiDef movies run incredibly slow and jumpy, with dialogue out of sync with the picture, taking you back to the early days of video on desktop PCs, because of the Mac Mini's pokey 1.5Ghz processor and paltry 667 Mhz FSB. Oh, and the DVD drive is VERY loud.

No, thanks.

Re:Alternative

[chill]

Alternate solution:

1) Pick any formfactor x86 PC you want, from small to "I have this obnoxious beige box hanging around";

2) Install a tuner -- USB, firewire or PCI

3) KnoppMyth (http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html)
3a) $4.99 from CheapBytes if you don't want to download and burn an .iso (http://shop.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cart/007001102 5.html)

4) Set up your universal remote

Done.

Re:Alternative

[tpgp]

Here's a (slightly more expensive) alternative for non-geeks:

1. Buy a Mac Mini

Sorry - your 'alternative' is a solution looking for a problem.

1) Your solution is a good deal more expensive then your post makes out - for instance if you want to burn to CD/DVD using EyeTv you have to purchase roxio toast (and that is not the only hidden cost)

2) MythTV gives you Mame, VOIP, Weather, Web, Gallery & music player all-in-one. Mac Mini solution does not.

3) If you really want an easy solution, rather then a look-my-mac-is-as-good-as-linux solution, just buy a dedicated PVR (with a similar set of features to eyetv) & plug it in. Lots of cable companies give them away for free now - otherwise you can pick them up for less then $100.

If you want a full featured PVR, do what this guy did (but please use knopmyth to make your life easier).

If you allready own a mini, great, buy eyeTV & assoicated peripherals.

If you just want a basic PVR, don't follow the advice above - you end up with a relatively expensive computer masquerading as $89.95 PVR.

Re:Alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

I am doing something like similar using, except I'm using a slower Thinkpad (T20).

The IR aspect might be troublesome. LIRC (and WinLIRC) DO NOT support the IrDA / IR interface built into your laptop (or most laptops for that matter). You can build an IR reciever (hooked to the serial port) using the schematics from the LIRC page or buy a compatible USB unit.

On the software side, do you just want to watch movies, or do you want to build a PVR? If you just want to watch movies, MPlayer (MPUI on Windows or Linux with a suitable GUI-frontend like KPlayer) will work really well. MythTV will be overkill since you don't have any TV tuners per-se. 802.11g ("54Mbps") will have enough bandwidth to stream videos (payload rate ~ 20 MBps) from another computer provided you have good signal strength.

If you want a PVR then you'll need some computer that has a TV tuner, etc. If you want to do everything using the laptop, Hauppauge and Plextor make USB2.0 TV tuners *WITH* MPEG-2 encoders. The Plextor even does MPEG-4, but oddly does not handle MPEG audio compression in hardware. The Hauppauge PVRUSB2 is supported through Mike Isley's driver but according to Mike the newer PVRUSB2 units aren't yet working with the driver. The Plextor unit has full Linux support though, so that might be a quicker route to success.

It all depends on how complicated of a setup you want...

Re:Alternative

[nickrooster]

Knoppmyth alternative instructions: 1) Buy a PC 2) Buy a tuner card (Hauppauge preferred) 3) Install Knoppmyth Done! Not only does Myth do a lot more than just PVR functionality, but Knoppmyth automatically sets everything up for you. All you have to do is point a remote at it and it works.

Re:Alternative

[InsaneProcessor]

USB tuners suck. The quality just isn't there. The simple method (and cheaper than a mac) is to use your PC and BeyondMedia/BeyondTV. Besides that the remote is cool because it isn't locked to line-of-site like IR remotes and no DRM like MCE. It took me about 2 hours to set it up with my PVR250 tuner from scratch.

Re:Alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

Or plan b, even cheaper...

Buy a Lifetime subbed Tivo on ebay and $300ish later you're set with a solution that just works.

Re:Alternative

[mikeisme77]

I love BeyondTV, but it should be noted that it is resource hungry--at least if you make the mistake of buying a piece of crap ATI All-in-Wonder card that doesn't do MPEG enconding on the hardware :-(... ATI's even crappier Media Center records using less resources than BeyondTV, but the features aren't there and the recording quality is considerably crappier than BeyondTV. BeyondTV is full featured, easy to use, easy to set up, and very sleek.

Oh, it would also be nice if they had an option so it doesn't record a temporary version of a show you're currently watching (as that will stop it from eating up my CPU)--especially since I hardly ever feel like rewinding a show I wasn't already planning to record myself.

Re:Alternative

[guet]

It seems people who've actually tried HD on a new mini would disagree

http://www.macworld.com/2006/03/firstlooks/minifin al/index.php

Re:Alternative

[ljrmorgan]

Here's a (slightly more expensive) alternative for non-geeks

Umm.. you're obviously new here! :-)

Re:Alternative

[Minwee]

"Buy a Lifetime subbed Tivo on ebay [...]"

Whose lifetime is that subscription for? Yours, the TiVo's or TiVo, Inc's?

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

1. Why would I ever want to put a TV show on to a DVD? Hard drives cost less per GB than blank DL-DVDs do.

2. You can do all of that on a mini, either with free software or stuff that comes with the OS, but again, why would I want "weather" on my TV box, especially when THREE of the HD channels in my broadcast market are nothing but weather radar?

3. There's a lot of nice features the mini has which every PVR on the market lacks, including several you claimed, falsely, to be exlcusive to a MythTV solution.

But thanks for trolling.

Re:Alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

You still have to dick around with the mac to get everything working, so why not take the superior and open Linux sulotion.

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

2) MythTV gives you Mame, VOIP, Weather, Web, Gallery & music player all-in-one. Mac Mini solution does not.

Sorry for the double-post, but this point is particularilly vexing.

iTunes is a kick-ass music player (and very remote-scriptable).

Safari is a nice browser, but plenty of 'zilla flavored options are available and free as well.

5-day forcasting is a dashboard widget which comes with the OS by default.

By "Gallery" I take it you mean a way to view pitcures. Gosh, if only there was a way to do that! *rolls eyes*

On top of that, the mac solution allows me to play World of Warcraft on my massive projection screen, which might not interest you, but I find it to be pretty neat.

And before you start going on about "all-in-oneness", I don't WANT a glorified launch-bar application for selecting what media I want to enjoy. I already have software for launching media playback software, it's called Mac OS X Tiger. One button press from the finder can get me to either music, DVD playback (either with physical disks or HD archives), other video playback, or whatever else I want. It works very slick.

And again, I'm not saying that a Mac mini, for all people and all tastes, is a better alternative for a media system than a MythTV box. I'm just saying that its an available option which some people might find more attractive than building their own beige-box mini-ITX penguin-power machine.

It takes different strokes to move the world, yo.

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

You still have to dick around with the mac to get everything working, so why not take the superior and open Linux sulotion.

I've owned enough Linux boxen to know that that's just about the most stupid fucking argument you could ever make in favor of Linux over OS X.

I mean, seriously stupid. Every one of us on this forum is now a little dumber for having read it.

Linux is awesome. It brought UNIX to the masses at a time when choices for the home user or BOFH-in-training were extremely limited. It allows you to turn useless old Windows PC's into solid and reliable enterprise servers. It's a fantastic learning tool. There are a million great things you can say about it.

MythTV, for that matter, is a really neat media app.

But to imply that you will need to "dick around" with a homebrew Linux box less than a Mac... That's just too retarded to even take seriously.

Re:Alternative

[tpgp]

1. Why would I ever want to put a TV show on to a DVD? Hard drives cost less per GB than blank DL-DVDs do.

Errr, right.

For starters, it's easier to buy DVD-Rs then upgrade a hdd and secondly, what you say is false. Blank DVD's are about 20c each, roughly 5c/GB. Upgrading a Mac Mini (we are still talking about these right?) from the standard 60GB to 120GB will cost you $175. That works out at 35c/GB.

2. You can do all of that on a mini, either with free software or stuff that comes with the OS, but again, why would I want "weather" on my TV box, especially when THREE of the HD channels in my broadcast market are nothing but weather radar?

Right, but you were saying how easy things are with the mini. If you're going to go to more effort then your 'three step solution', then why not just go the cheaper generic box & pop knopmyth into the cdrom?

3. There's a lot of nice features the mini has which every PVR on the market lacks, including several you claimed, falsely, to be exlcusive to a MythTV solution.

Man I love the smell of unsubstantiated allegations in the morning!

Care to share some links with us? We're looking for:

• PVR features exclusive to the mini.

• The line were I claim (any) features are exclusive to MythTv

But thanks for trolling.

You post a "mac mini is better" comment to a completely unrelated article, I helpfully correct you - but now I'm trolling? Whatever dude.

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

For starters, it's easier to buy DVD-Rs then upgrade a hdd and secondly, what you say is false. Blank DVD's are about 20c each, roughly 5c/GB. Upgrading a Mac Mini (we are still talking about these right?) from the standard 60GB to 120GB will cost you $175. That works out at 35c/GB.

Please show me where I can get DL DVD's for 20c each. (Single-layer DVD's won't cut it, as they can't store enough HD video for many shows.)

I've got a stack of EXTERNAL hard drives in my basement connected by a long Firewire chain, all of which cost far, far less than equivalent storage on DL-DVD, while being far more convenient.

Man I love the smell of unsubstantiated allegations in the morning!

Man, I hate the smell of poor reading comprehension skills. You suggested that those who crave the ease-of-use of a mini should buy a PVR. I rightly pointed out that a mini has many features which a PCR lacks, and you read that to imply that MythTV lacks those features, which I never said.

You post a "mac mini is better" comment to...

I must have missed the line where I ever said "mac mini is better". I simply pointed out that it was an alternative for those who would rather not build their own MythTV box, but want similar features.

I even went so far as to point out in the first fucking line that the Mac solution was more expensive, and therefore obviously not for everybody, but that still wasn't enough to quell your knee-jerk defense of your PRECIOUS Open Source solution againt the eeeeeevil Mac cheerleader.

You tell me, who's the fanboy here? Take a closer look at your behavior and answer again.

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

1) Buy a PC 2) Buy a tuner card (Hauppauge preferred) 3) Install Knoppmyth Done!

You missed two steps:

0.5) Check the Linux compatability list before buying your PC to make sure really obscure stuff like the SOUND CARD is actually supported. I speak with the voice of bitter experience here. Unelss you think it's fun to write your own custom drivers, make sure every last bit of hardware you buy is fully tested and known to work with the build of Linux you will be using.

also:

2.5) Install the tuner card in the PC. It works a lot better that way. ;)

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

Whose lifetime is that subscription for? Yours, the TiVo's or TiVo, Inc's?

Whatever ends first. :)

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

Alternate solution:

1) Pick any formfactor x86 PC you want, from small to "I have this obnoxious beige box hanging around";

2) Install a tuner -- USB, firewire or PCI

3) KnoppMyth (http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html)
3a) $4.99 from CheapBytes if you don't want to download and burn an .iso (http://shop.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cart/007001102 5.html)

3.5) Stay up all night browsing support forums, because the cheap Taiwanese IDE bridge on the "obnoxious beige box" you had hanging around is not on the Linux Compatibility List and nobody seems to have heard of it except for two people asking "how do I get this to work?" on the web archives of some old newsgroup list, neither of whom ever got an answer. Then try out several drivers to "similar" bridge circuits to see if you can find one that mostly works, before giving up and trying it on your laptop instead, just to make sure you can get everything else working before running out and buying a new system the next morning, only to find that your laptop runs everything fine, but with no sound. Then spend the half-wakeful following morning pondering whether you should go with a new PC made of carefully-selected Linux-compatable parts, or just go with a Windows or Mac solution.

4) Set up your universal remote

Done.

There. Fixed it for you.

(Mostly kidding... Linux hardware support is much better than it used to be. Still, I always look parts up before attempting to use Linux with them, because I've had far too many Linux install experiences along the lines of: "Generic 2-Button mouse!? What do you mean generic 2-button mouse!? It's a three-button-plus-scroll-wheel mouse from a top-5 name-brand manufacturer!" Ahh... good times, good times.)

Re:Alternative

[tpgp]

Do yo ever use your mini as a PVR?

All those things you mention (are great apps, but) don't integrate into a PVR type setup (with large, high contrast text, full screen, remote operation, etc etc) without alot (a weekend's worth?) of effort.

WoW is a good example for you to use however, it is something of interest to many people, and wanting to play it is a good reason to choose a mini or windows media center (or whatever its called) over mythTV.

And again, I'm not saying that a Mac mini, for all people and all tastes, is a better alternative for a media system than a MythTV box.

But you did imply it was an easier alternative with: "...to spend their weekend building a box from scratch...", but its not easier - not to get a full featured PVR. The mini maybe a better PVR/PC combo, but thats a different discussion.

I'm just saying that its an available option which some people might find more attractive than building their own beige-box mini-ITX penguin-power machine.

The article we're discussing features a black case (not a particularly attractive one mind you). My mini-itx (which predates the mac mini) is in a black box too. The mini is closer in color to the beige-box you mention.

Wait for Steve before touting the mac-pvr. It's coming and it will probably wipe the competition away, but for now... The mini just ain't ready.

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

Do yo ever use your mini as a PVR?

I used to. Then I got a sweetheart deal on a dual-G5 tower, which handles HDTV much better than the G4 mini did, and put the mini into a music studio rackmount to spend the rest of its days as an audio signal processor.

All those things you mention (are great apps, but) don't integrate into a PVR type setup (with large, high contrast text, full screen, remote operation, etc etc) without alot (a weekend's worth?) of effort.

Almost zero effort. The Keyspan remote control comes with pre-built software commans, and if freakishly easy to customize.

I push a button on my remote. iTunes launches. The text can be larger and bolder, but since my screen is grotesquely huge, I use the default font.

I select the song, album, or playlist I want and hit play.

I hit another button if I want the keen visual effects to fill the screen instead while the music is playing.

I hit a button to turn off the visuals.

I select an h.264 video I downloaded from the Internet and archived on my iTunes playlist.

I hit play, and watch the video in full-screen mode, just like any other video source.

I hit a button to quit, I'm back at the desktop.

I hit a button and EyeTV launches.

My remote works just like a TV/PVR remote control.

I hit a button to quit, I'm back at the desktop.

I hit a button and DVD Player luanches.

I use the remote to select a DVD image from the "Open" dialoge box.

I hit play. Now I'm watching a DVD.

You see what I'm saying here? All of this stuff is ALREADY "integrated" at the OS level. No need for a fancy app.

Apple's had a media launcher on the market for a while now, and there are at least three open-source projects floating around out there for something similar. I'm not intereted in any of them, because I can already do it all without a special application, beyond the driver for the remote control.

Re:Alternative

[MonkeyCookie]

It's the lifetime of the TiVo box.

Re:Alternative

[tpgp]

You tell me, who's the fanboy here? Take a closer look at your behavior and answer again.

Hmmmmn, I think you're getting snarky at the wrong person. I never mentioned fanboy. Maybe you should slow down, chill out & reread the thread, slower.

To answer your question however:

Both of us.

Anyway, to answer your post in a general way. You don't need dl-dvd's to backup, just two sls. I'm sure you can find some (remote control scriptable, nice clear text) software to do just that.

You go on to accuse me of poor comprehension. The line I failed to comprehend:

There's a lot of nice features the mini has which every PVR on the market lacks, including several you claimed, falsely, to be exlcusive to a MythTV solution.

My comprehension? I read that to mean that I claimed (falsely) some features were exclusive to MythTV.

Is that not what you meant?

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

The article we're discussing features a black case (not a particularly attractive one mind you). My mini-itx (which predates the mac mini) is in a black box too. The mini is closer in color to the beige-box you mention.

"Beige box" is a common expression referring to commodity PC systems, particularilly home-brew ones. Almost none of them are actually beige in color anymore. White and black seem to be the most popular choices.

(Although most of my Linux and/or Windows boxes were beige, because I would always prefer to re-use old PC cases when building new systems, even if that meant getting out the tin-snips and cutting new holes for USB ports and what-not. I just can't bring myself to spend money on a simple metal box when I can avoid it.)

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

My comprehension? I read that to mean that I claimed (falsely) some features were exclusive to MythTV.

You did. You said the mini solution left out the ability to get stuff like weather, web browsing, etc. as an integrated solution.

Those things are integrated on the Mac, just at the OS level rather than in an application shell.

Re:Alternative

[tpgp]

I just can't bring myself to spend money on a simple metal box when I can avoid it

Quoth the Mac fan :-)

Now I know you're trolling... very amusing however - nicely played.

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

But you did imply it was an easier alternative with: "...to spend their weekend building a box from scratch...", but its not easier - not to get a full featured PVR.

Except it is easier. Vastly easier.

For starters, the system is already built.

Secondly, the OS is already installed.

Thirdly, installing the PVR app is a simple "drag the application which came with the tuner into the applications folder" procedure.

Finally, the only configuration to be done is to auto-tune your local stations, set up a TitanTV log-in, and configure the remote. It honestly takes less time to set up than you would spend deciding on your speaker placement.

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

I'm not a Mac "fan", I'm a Mac "user."

I've owned many, many PC systems over the years. I've recently abandoned all but my company-owned work systems in favor of 4 Macs.

1. A G5 tower drives my media room.
2. A first-gen Mac mini is the swiss-army knife solution of my music studio.
3. I use an iBook for almost everything else I do.
4. An eMac... is collecting dust in my basement, other than serving up a web site that I no longer really care about. I should probably sell it along with my old Windows game PC.

(I used to be a major FPS junkie, but I've become bored with them and now do most of my gaming, apart from WoW, on an X-Box, so my Windows system hasn't been turned on in about a year. Come to think of it, I swiped all the memory out of it to jack up my G5, so it's not even operational at the moment.)

Re:Alternative

[chill]

Really? I've never had that issue with Linux, with the exception of:

Sometimes having to recompile a kernel to add support for the obscure on-board sound chip;
#!@*&!(@# wireless cards.

And I've edited so many xfree86.conf and xorg.conf files by hand to add "ZAxisMap 4 5" I can do it in my sleep.

I do thoroughly check out the compatibility docs before buying a printer, scanner or digital camera, though. The camera *must* have the ability to save to an external card and/or show up as USB Mass Storage or I won't buy it. [NO, I DO NOT WANT TO INSTALL YOUR DAMN IMAGE PROCESSING SOFTWARE!] With printers and scanners I don't really buy them a lot but am asked for recommendations. I really like the Epson stuff because it works so well. I've been burned by Lexmark and a couple others before. Visioneer is another one on my blacklist.

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

Last time I used a wireless card on a Linux box, it wasn't so bad, but it was an extremely common model 802.11b card. Since 802.11g made wireless more popular, there seems to be a lot more card manufacturers out there, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Linux driver-writing community was having trouble keeping up with them all.

To be fair, it's not like your choices of supported hardware don't have gaps in the Mac OS X world, it's just that what will and will not work is usually far more obvious.

For example: Video cards, if not built specifically to work with Macs, won't work with Macs. Cameras, on the other hand, pretty much always work with Macs, probably because so many photographers and video producers are Mac junkies.

Re:Alternative

[tpgp]

after reading this thread, i CAN tell you that you are a whiney little mac fanboy

noone is interested in your sad little life.

Re:Alternative

[Golias]

Ah. I see now.

IHBT.

Re:Alternative

[nickrooster]

Using a Debian-derivitive, Linux kernel 2.6 OS, I haven't had to worry much about hardware at all.

Especially not a sound card.

Are you running 2.2 or something? What kind of soundcard?

Re:NEWSFLASH:

[tmbailey123]

A good musician doesn't blame the instrument 8-)

One word reply to you ;-)

[tpgp]

Is there such a thing yet, or should I wait for PVRuntu?

Knopmyth

Re:One word reply to you ;-)

[fak3r]

That looks perfect! Why hadn't I heard of this earlier? With those constant Dell 399$ desktop specials (and you could sell the flat panel later to recoupe even more) and a WinTV-dbx, model 401 (~72$ via Froogle) you can be all set! Hmmm...must think about this, thanks for the link!

Re:One word reply to you ;-)

[Afrosheen]

I don't know about that card but nearly any Hauppauge PVR x50 card will work. Currently I'm working on getting it to use the firewire connection to my Motorola 62xx DVR, it will tune but the osd is in black and white and it has some other little issues. Coming along nicely otherwise. If I tune over analog cable it's perfect.

Re:One word reply to you ;-)

[CastrTroy]

Dell is currently selling a computer for $249 Canadian, sans monitor, but you you trouble finding a refurb that cheap in this country.

Re:One word reply to you ;-)

[smoker2]

According the the web site you linked to -

" What is KnoppMyth?

* Short Answer: KnoppMyth is Knoppix optimized for MythTV.
* Long Answer: Our vision is a distribution that makes it trivial to setup a set-top box.
We've included everything that believe is needing to reach this goal.
And, in fact, the developers use this distribution on their own PVR's.

What is Knoppix?

* See http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

What is MythTV?

* See http://mythtv.org/
Cool! So does this run completely from the CD?

* No. You can use the CD as a frontend, but KnoppMyth must be installed to the hard drive.
Will it ever run completely from the CD?
* Maybe. "

So you can't test it unless you install it.

I believe the OP was asking about a live cd that had a hard drive install as an option.

Re:One word reply to you ;-)

[JasonDT]

Yeah don't bother with knoppmyth...Its a horrible horrible OS setup (although it does install mythtv fairly well). I have never seen a more cluttered boot process. I was watching it boot and it must have gone through loading modules (the same ones) 3 or 4 times.. it takes forever to finally get to a usable state. Also, the guy who runs knoppmyth is an ass. I emailed him for help once (because his script told me too if I had problems) and he sent back a nasty email telling me not to email him and use the forums. Then when I questioned him as to why one of his scripts said to email if you run into problems, He told me that he doesn't answer email questions and if you don't like that answer then don't use my distro....A real ass... I know I'm just bitchin and whining but some people deserve to be called out. anyway I'm using kubuntu (dapper) and mythtv on my mini-itx pvr and it works pretty much out of the box... good luck its a fun waste of time anyway ;) -jason

Re:One word reply to you ;-)

[karnal]

Well, shit.

Better return my Hauppauge pvr-500... cause it doesn't fall into your x50 line...

Anyways, yes, another vote for the PVR hardware-encoding MPEG2 cards....

Now, let's get cheap MPEG4 cards!!!

Re:One word reply to you ;-)

[Afrosheen]

The 500's will work, but they're not perfect like the x50's are. ivtv support is still a work in progress for them although people get them to work every day.

  http://mysettopbox.tv/ hit the forums then the Tier 1 if you need hardware recommendations.

Re:One word reply to you ;-)

[Anonymous Coward]

What you are describing is a common experience with knoppmyth and mythtv in general. It seems they hold their users in utter contempt and even disdain.

If you are new or not a l33t h4x0r g33k, have a slightly unusual system or if you have to ask for help then you are pretty much screwed. You can expect to get flamed for even the most benign question. Then hordes of "me too" flamers will jump on you too. It is just not worth it.

Yes, they are an open source project and DIY and nobody owes you anything but they do not have to treat people like garbage. If you think they are rude on the knoppmyth forums, try reading/posting on mythtv.org mailing lists! They have a well deserved reputation for being even more nasty and spiteful.

I think what mythtv etc needs most is some healthy competition or at least some new management. They are their own worst enemy. Maybe a fork would help.

Impressive, but not really an all-in-one solution

[wackysootroom]

The 1Ghz processor in the mini ITX board would not be able to handle one large aspect of what makes mythtv better than Tivo - Games.

The choice of the Epia mainboard was a good choice. These make really nice myth frontends because they have VLD XvMC via the open source unichrome video drivers. This means that the box should easily handle HD with the proper HD card, even with only 1Ghz processor power on the mainboard.

Site is dying. First page: and my thoughts

[From A Far Away Land]

" Mini-ITX Part III

Wednesday, 22 March 2006
Page 1 of 7

By: Sal Cangeloso

For the past few months I have been spending a lot of time using my Mini-ITX computer. This was originally a project system which I put together so that I would have something small and silent for my living room, on which I could do a few very basic tasks, like check my email and get on the internet. The first part of the project featured a system which booted Puppy Linux off of a flash USB drive, a solution which was simple and quiet, but not very powerful. In the second part of the project the system was given a new case, improved cooling, and it booted off of a LiveCD and could save to a CF card. As I used the system more I decided the best course of action would be to make a few more changes and increase the system's functionality, despite the impact that this could have on its silent operation.

This time I had some big plans in store for the Mini-ITX box. The plans were, roughly, to install a hard drive, move to a more powerful Linux distribution, and add PVR capabilites to the system. Because the computer was already situated in my living room, making it into a personal video recorder was an obvious choice, though doing this on a Mini-ITX Linux system would surely take a bit of finesse. "
-----

I wish that they said what "ITX" means.

    PVR is Personal Video Recorder which describes a digital device like a TIVO or MythTV software for a computer system with TV input.
I've used an All In Wonder 8500DV to record TV onto my computer, but my biggest roadblock has been poor ATI drivers for Windows that disabled Hibernation, crashes XP, and fails to work well in Linux even as a video card never mind as a TV system.

Re:Site is dying. First page: and my thoughts

[wackysootroom]

I've used an All In Wonder 8500DV to record TV onto my computer, but my biggest roadblock has been poor ATI drivers for Windows that disabled Hibernation, crashes XP, and fails to work well in Linux even as a video card never mind as a TV system.

I wouldn't recommend ATI on linux at all at this point. The drivers are barely even useable, let alone give good performance.

My bit of advice, if you're buying a video card for a linux PVR, stay far, far away from ATI. You'll thank me for saving you from countless hours of trying to get a good picture in vain.

Re:Site is dying. First page: and my thoughts

[(H)elix1]

I wish that they said what "ITX" means.

ITX is nothing more than a form factor. Usually the form factors dictate how the board mounts the chassis, how things get cooled, and how it gets power. Lots of standards - btx, at, etc... this is juts another.

Take an ATX case, look at the four mounting holes and you have how the board screws into the case - more or less ITX in a nutshell. ITX is just a bit larger than a square built out of RAM sticks. Bog standard ATX power supply, keyboard, mouse, and other ports in the same position as ATX, and does not make any assumptions about the power source being able to direct air to where the CPU should lay out. The rest of the bits are optional - some have floppy connectors, some don't.

Re:Site is dying. First page: and my thoughts

[Karzz1]

"I wish that they said what "ITX" means."

ITX is a form-factor just like ATX is a form-factor. It simply determines the size of the board and where mounting holes should be etc... This way case manufacturers can make a case for ITX boards that should (theoretically) fit all ITX sized boards.

Re:Site is dying. First page: and my thoughts

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

I wouldn't recommend ATI on linux at all at this point. The drivers are barely even useable, let alone give good performance.

My bit of advice, if you're buying a video card for a linux PVR, stay far, far away from ATI. You'll thank me for saving you from countless hours of trying to get a good picture in vain.

Why oh why do so many people act like crack addicted junkies and think that ATI is the only option they have? Hauppauge cards work just fine on Linux. Although the parent doesn't say what he uses instead of ATI, I'd bet it's Hauppauge. The guy who wrote the original article obviously didn't do his research and just assumed he could get ATI to work for him. HA HA HA HA HA!

Re:Site is dying. First page: and my thoughts

[clydemaxwell]

Uh, few people use hauppage as an output card. He may be using a good hauppage (or other brand, god forbid) tv input, but he still needs a tv-out!
For example I have the hauppage pvr-250 and an nvidia geforce fx 5200; they serve different functions.

Re:Site is dying. First page: and my thoughts

[Type-R]

The pvr-350 works great as a TV-out using IVTV!

4% CPU usage on a VIA EPIA M10000 watching live TV through the PVR-350 (in & out)

General Problem with this approach

[Anonymous Coward]

The only real problem I have with this approach is simply the cost. Even if you can factor out the cost of software by going FOSS, the hardware costs are still pretty high. Right now I can get a used 80GB Tivo for $40. I plug it in and it works, no muss no fuss. Now there is the monthly subscription fee, but the price differential could mean that I can absorb a few years worth of subscription fees before it made a difference. Now, if you also need/want a full featured computer as well as PVR functions, then that makes sense. But if you're just looking to record an hour of the WB every night, turnkey solutions like Tivo still make a lot more sense.

Re:General Problem with this approach

[realkiwi]

Tivo equivalents here cost a third of the price of a mini-itx system with 160 Gig HD and a DVD-RW. They don't stream to other PCs in the house either for that price.

Re:General Problem with this approach

[Afrosheen]

You're right, Mythtv may be overkill for some people that only want a PVR. However, Mythtv does MUCH more.

  Rip dvds, rip cd's, display pictures (with a variety of OpenGL wipes and fades), play music (with a variety of visualizations), play VCDs, get your local weather reports with satellite map imagery, surf the web, talk on a SIP videophone, add stuff to your Netflix queue, the list just goes on and on.

Re:General Problem with this approach

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're a good scrounge you can hold the costs down. The biggest expense becomes the tuner. I have a pair of PVR-150's in an old dual PIII 500, works just fine. Volume spanning lets you stuff a bunch of old drives in to get plenty of storage. Dual CPU let's me run the commercial flagging without huge lag in the front end jumping around menu's.

For the front end, track down an Nvidia based laptop with video out (or another supported TV out card) with a smashed LCD. I can almost guarantee any decent sized IT group has several laptops around that the sales dweebs dropped/stepped on/etc that aren't worth repairing.

Re:General Problem with this approach

[voidstin]

You can get a tivo with a DVD burner built it (or attach one) or transfer the videos to your (windows-only) laptop, and do many of the other net things you're describing (weather, photos, music, netflix, etc). The only real differences are SIP videophone, visualizations, and full web browser. Are those different enough to be worth the extra money and time?

Plus, the series 3 is shipping this fall with dual HD cablecard tuners...

tivo apps: http://www.tivo.com/4.9.11.asp

Re:General Problem with this approach

[Afrosheen]

Strangely enough, cablecards seem to be going away. Sharp, a major producer of nice HDTV LCD sets, removed Cablecard slots from all of their '06 models since it was estimated only around 60,000 people were using them.

  Also, even if the Tivo has a dvd burner, it probably doesn't have a large enough hard drive (or disrespect for DMCA) to allow you to rip your own DVDs to it.

  Face it, the reason that there are alot of homebrew PVRs is that Tivo and others just don't deliver the features many of us want.

Price

[mtenhagen]

I was reading the article but couldn't find a price before it got slashdotted.

But I think this will cost at least a few hunderd. Then why not just use a provider who offers video on demand, you might need to pay a euro per show but that would be hunders of shows before you spend the same amount. Maybe if you watch several recorded shows a day it might be usefull but I think most people (me atleast) dont watch that much.

Re:Price

[clydemaxwell]

What if you want to re-watch an entire series? Legally dubious but functionally awesome.

Re:Price

[Anonymous Coward]

my DVR functions for one sole purpose: hold the current season of SG-1 until it comes out on DVD.

Then I wipe and start over. I guess I can hold a few other things on there, but why would I want to?!

Re:NEWSFLASH:

[Golias]

A good musician doesn't blame the instrument 8-)

A good musician also buys the best one that he or she can afford (or has one provided, in the case of world-class string instruments.)

I may be mistaken...

[dtsazza]

...but aren't Mini-ITX boxes the usual form factor for MythTV implementations? If you're (typically) going to have a PVR in your living room, you'll want something that's low-power, quiet and preferably quite small.

Don't get me wrong, the article's a good one, but it seems like the focus of the summary is "They have MythTV on MiniITX now" - haven't we been doing this for months, if not years?

Re:I may be mistaken...

[Wonko]

...but aren't Mini-ITX boxes the usual form factor for MythTV implementations? If you're (typically) going to have a PVR in your living room, you'll want something that's low-power, quiet and preferably quite small.

I completely understand why quiet is important, but I don't really understand why it needs to be small. Most people that I know have quite a bit of room in the entertainment centers. Even if you don't, you might even be able to hide the box away behind the TV. The only thing that needs to be in plain sight is the IR receiver and probably the DVD driver. There is no reason not to just go USB or firewire for that.

If I were going to build a MythTV box today, I would probably start with a used 500-1000 mhz machine. Add a reasonably sized hard drive, a PVR 150 card, and possibly replace the video card. You certainly don't need a fancy video card, any old 2D card with a supported svideo output will do the trick. You could definitely do this for under 300 bucks, possibly even under $200.

I do not know how much a remote control and reciever will cost. :)

Re:I may be mistaken...

[lakeland]

Disclaimer: I sell mythtv boxes

Most people want a pretty box, and many of the mini ITX cases meet that description. I think the mATX is quite small enough, but standard ATX just looks bulky. The last one I built used a Silverstone LC11M and I would say that's borderline too big.

500MHz - 1GHz is arguably a little slow, especially for the OSD. If you're recording a lot of TV, you might not be able to transcode overnight with that CPU either. I tend to use a 754-based sempron which is overkill but offers nice power features.

For the video card, it is quite handy if the card does xvmc - especially if you're still planning on going with a 1GHz CPU. It is essential that it does xv. This restricts it to a midrange geforce 4 or better. I really need to get around to checking if the 6150 does xvmc...

IR varies a whole heap in price depending on how pretty it is - a budget setup costs as little as $20 (you can even spend about $20 extra on your PVR150 to get the non OEM version with IR). Often the prettier cases, such as the aforementioned LC11M, have built in IR too. The Microsoft remote is $100 for a three pack from memory. Another alternative is the ATI which uses radio instead of IR. If you're feeling rich, then something like the logitech harmony will set you back $250.

Re:I may be mistaken...

[Gandalf_007]

For the video card, it is quite handy if the card does xvmc - especially if you're still planning on going with a 1GHz CPU. It is essential that it does xv. This restricts it to a midrange geforce 4 or better. I really need to get around to checking if the 6150 does xvmc...

I assume you meant xvmc there? Virtually all cards since the ATI Rage, nV TNT, Matrox G200, S3 Virge, etc. have XVideo (xv) support, which does stuff like overlay, colorspace conversion, and scaling in hardware, and is absolutely essential for playing a video full-screen (or any size larger than original). Try playing a video with 'mplayer -vo x11 ....' and see what I mean.

Such is the only reason I put an S3 Virge in an old box instead of a Matrox Millenium, which is better in every other way.

Cables, cables, cables

[realkiwi]

If you want to cool a small case you need to get rid of those flat IDE cables that restrict air flow.

P.S. VDR is a much better solution than Myth in countries with DVB-S and DVB-T.

Re:Cables, cables, cables

[shippo]

I tried Myth TV with a DVB-T card around a year ago. I got it working, but had to kludge together a system to grab automatic updates to the EPG that gets broadcast as part of the data stream in the UK and insert that into the main EPG database periodically.

The main problems were that the picture quality sent to a TV was no where near as good as a standard DVB-T decoder, that there was no support for the MHEG teletext system used exclusively in the UK, and the noise made by the machine was unbearably loud. I was also unable to schedule it to record radio streams.

In the end I just purchased a cheap Sagem PVR. The firmware on that was buggy at first, but they've started to iron out most of them. I still can't record radio, though!

Re:Cables, cables, cables

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. I used mythtv and a DVB-S card to get dishnetwork, but channel changing was slow, and while grabing the EPG from the satellit it would just make the computer hang.
Now VDR worked perfect. Nice GUI can even use the hollywood plus mpeg decoders for SD.

Re:NEWSFLASH:

[wackysootroom]

NEWSFLASH:

Nobody cares. Now go back to watching TV on your DRM crippled system that crashes twice per week.

pre-emptive coracl cache

[thelost]

can already feel the site crawling so made a pre-emtive corach cache. Use that if you can!

Re:pre-emptive coracl cache

[Anonymous Coward]

doh, i made two different spelling mistakes of the same word in one post. what a dolt! well i guess you guys know what i mean anyhow

Re:Impressive, but not really an all-in-one soluti

[realkiwi]

The openchrome driver - the other one does not do accelerated video. VIA has drivers and a hacked xine too but they, well... they suck...

Go LAN young man.

[Anonymous Coward]

IMHO all these "multimedia" devices have it wrong. All the heavy lifting should be elsewere, and the "results" should be in front of you. The secret? Fast networking. Note that doesn't necessarily imply TCP/IP. Just a LAN that's fast enough to get the job done. The advantages is that all the "disadvantages" are out of sight, and hearing and you don't have to bend over backwards to solve all the present problems.

Re:Go LAN young man.

[chill]

Bingo. This is what I have set up in my house.

The cute little box that serves as my MythTV front-end is real quiet because there is no:
  a) Hard drive
  b) Fan
  c) Optical drive

It *does* have a GbE connection to a noisier box in a closet. This one has room for lots of large hard drives and a DVD-RW. The little box boots via PXE (only because I wanted the experience), but has a 1 Gb USB 2.0 thumb drive for "local" storage or caching, just in case.

The down side? The little box is almost useless without the network connection to the big box. This can be fixed by booting from the USB flash drive, if you want.

The up side? I have over 300 DVDs and 100 CDs all ripped to the big box. Movies, recorded TV and music is all available at any PC in the house. I have room for a couple hundred more movies and CDs before having to buy more hard drives. It is super-silent since there are no moving parts.

[Note to the MPAA/RIAA: I have the originals of ALL of those DVDs and CDs boxed away nicely, in storage, to avoid scratches and deterioration.]

Re:Go LAN young man.

[WebCowboy]

All the heavy lifting should be elsewere, and the "results" should be in front of you.

That depends if you are a starving student living in a dorm room or cramped apartment, or if you are looking for the ultimate media system to hook into your 7.1 surround system and gigantic hi-def screen that you just had installed in the home theatre room of your upscale house. If it is the former then you probably don't have room to spare for the "heavy lifting" machine, nor the money to purchas the extra hardware. Even if you did find somewhere to put it, the big back-end box with all the whirring drives and fans would probably be audible from every part of your small pad. If it is the latter then I'm sure you have a large attic, basement utility room or spare closet you could wire up and soundproof, as well as the money to get scads of hard drive storage and computing power--so in that case your suggestion is the best one.

The secret? Fast networking. Note that doesn't necessarily imply TCP/IP. Just a LAN that's fast enough to get the job done.

The newest generation of EIPA Mini-ITX boards (C7/"Luke" based) are equipped with gigabit ethernet onboard so they'll meet your needs nicely. You can already buy limited quantities of the first model (so they are not vapourware as some VIA detractors have said, despite VIA's delivery track record being nearly as spotty as Microsoft's).

and you don't have to bend over backwards to solve all the present problems

I don't think that there are really any problems solved by your suggestion personally--if you have a LAN based solution you probably have to do more work to get it to operate to your satisfaction. I suppose it depends on the problems you are trying to solve--if you have 100 movies and thousands of songs and want enough spare drive space to record another 100 hours of TV then you have problems that can only be solved by haveing a media server hidden away somewhere. If you are just looking for a TiVO-like PVR that is hack-friendly and doesn't require paying huge monthly fees for your cable company's "on-demand" digital package, then you have no problems to solve--just get a Mini-ITX board, fill the RAM slots and stuff it in a cute little box with a laptop hard drive of reasonable size and the bulk of your time will be software configuration.

Re:Go LAN young man.

[Kevin DeGraaf]

The cute little box that serves as my MythTV front-end is real quiet

Could you elaborate on your hardware setup? My EPIA M10000 has a very noisy 40mm CPU fan (been meaning to replace that) and the case has a pair of noisy 40mm fans that I haven't had the balls to remove/undervolt yet. :-)

Re:Go LAN young man.

[chill]

Could you elaborate on your hardware setup? My EPIA M10000 has a very noisy 40mm CPU fan (been meaning to replace that) and the case has a pair of noisy 40mm fans that I haven't had the balls to remove/undervolt yet. :-)

Via's fans are cheap and loud. If you replace those with something decent, like from Zalman or Nexus and you'll be much happier. http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/cpucomparison. html?id=CfDcrzuT

Personally, I'm using a modified (hard drive removed) Hush PC http://www.mini-itx.com/store/product.asp?sid=HUSH -MCE.

Now that you can actually buy Via's NanoITX boards, my next project is going to be with one of those.

Re:Go LAN young man.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to hear whether you're running X (for the mythfrontend and configuring MythTV) on your backend box.

I'm in the middle of a project like this, and would like to lock down the backend machine enough to serve my web site and my mt-daapd iTunes sharing out of the house too - but I'm not going there with X on it.

Re:Go LAN young man.

[chill]

No, I'm not. The backend box is really a glorified file server running Samba. Nothing more than a metric ass-ton of storage space and a way to get to it from elsewhere. DVD and audio CDs are never really played at all, only ripped to the server and played/streamed remotely.

Re:Go LAN young man.

[Anonymous Coward]

"That depends if you are a starving student living in a dorm room or cramped apartment, or if you are looking for the ultimate media system to hook into your 7.1 surround system and gigantic hi-def screen that you just had installed in the home theatre room of your upscale house. If it is the former then you probably don't have room to spare for the "heavy lifting" machine, nor the money to purchas the extra hardware. Even if you did find somewhere to put it, the big back-end box with all the whirring drives and fans would probably be audible from every part of your small pad. If it is the latter then I'm sure you have a large attic, basement utility room or spare closet you could wire up and soundproof, as well as the money to get scads of hard drive storage and computing power--so in that case your suggestion is the best one."

There's nothing in the client-server paradigm that implies loud, or expensive.

It can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be

"I don't think that there are really any problems solved by your suggestion personally--if you have a LAN based solution you probably have to do more work to get it to operate to your satisfaction. I suppose it depends on the problems you are trying to solve--if you have 100 movies and thousands of songs and want enough spare drive space to record another 100 hours of TV then you have problems that can only be solved by haveing a media server hidden away somewhere. If you are just looking for a TiVO-like PVR that is hack-friendly and doesn't require paying huge monthly fees for your cable company's "on-demand" digital package, then you have no problems to solve--just get a Mini-ITX board, fill the RAM slots and stuff it in a cute little box with a laptop hard drive of reasonable size and the bulk of your time will be software configuration."

The problem the home-brew crowd is trying to solve is creating an economical media manager using different commodity parts that really weren't ment for such a role (integration issues), and having heat, noise, and a smaller feature list than say a commercial purpose-built device.

My suggestion works based on the efficient division of labour principle. While there's still the integration issue (the nature of all home-brews). Heat and noise (if any) are moved elsewere, and what you have in your media center is only what absolutely needs to be there (basically I/O ports). You also gain the ability to easily expand your setup without either taking things apart, or rebuilding. Plus there's all that free space you gain.

Re:Go LAN young man.

[really?]

I hear your pain. Two easy/simple things you can do:
1. replace the cheap ass CPU fan with a quieter one, and,
2. hook those two case fans in series - that slows them enough to make them just about completely quiet, yet they still manage to push out enough warm air - 250GB WD drive in mine.

Re:Go LAN young man.

[renehollan]

Now that you can actually buy Via's NanoITX boards, my next project is going to be with one of those

I've got a 1.0 GHz nano-ITX, with MythTv on it, leveraging the OpenChrome CN400 drivers.

I haven't optimized it though: slapped in a hard drive with a full FC3 install (so I could compile natively if I wanted), and so have to do that.

I would very much like to collaborate w.r.t. configuration, etc.

Re:Go LAN young man.

[Kevin DeGraaf]

I've got a 1.0 GHz nano-ITX, with MythTv on it, leveraging the OpenChrome CN400 drivers.

Does the video output look nice? I have a mini-ITX system with a Unichrome graphics chipset (using OpenChrome drivers) and the video quality, to put it politely, sucks donkey balls. The MythTV text is barely legible.

Re:Go LAN young man.

[renehollan]

What output are you using (SVGA, YPrPb, Y/C (svideo), or Composite)?

I'm only using the SVGA output for now, but have pushed the display to 1920x1440x60Hz(x16 bits instead of 24 at that res) to get 1920x1080 on a 4:3 CRT, with no ill effects.

I have not yet tried the YPrPb outputs.

PVR-350 - Bad Choice for this application

[Se7enLC]

The major difference between the PVR-350 and the PVR-250/150 is that the 350 has video output (MPEG2 decompression). Seeing as the board he selected has video out built in (and a processor that is plenty-capable enough), the PVR-350 was an unnecessary added expense. Also, the PVR-350 is slow at outputting X-menus, cannot do OpenGL or any acceleration except for MPEG2, DVD decoding is slow, games won't work, etc. Basically, the PVR-350 is useful ONLY for MPEG2 TV output.

ALSO - the current stable version of MythTV (0.19) has a bug where fast forwarding and rewinding greater than 3X don't work properly. There is no timeframe for fixing the bug, as not all that many people are using the 350.

A better choice would have been to get a PVR-500 to get dual-tuners, or at least a MCE version of the 150 (take up less space in the teeny case) and use the onboard SVideo out (or VGA out converted).

Re:PVR-350 - Bad Choice for this application

[Minwee]

I thought that was an odd choice, considering that the EPIA MII 10000 already has on-board video with MPEG-2 acceleration which is fairly well supported under X. Considering that the 350 costs roughly twice as much as the 150, with buying decisions like that it's no wonder that he went way over budget.

Re:PVR-350 - Bad Choice for this application

[Anonymous Coward]

ALSO - the current stable version of MythTV (0.19) has a bug where fast forwarding and rewinding greater than 3X don't work properly. There is no timeframe for fixing the bug, as not all that many people are using the 350.

Please, if that was the only bug....

There are much more serious things, such as audio/video synchronization, which is quite awful on an old machine. I run the frontend on a dual P3-866 with a GeFroce 6600, and 0.19 does much worse than 0.18. The sync code must be really bad, since when I have it pipe the AC3 audio stream to an external decoder the audio gets extra choppy, while I was hoping it would get better with the audio processing offloaded.

Long story short - I gave up on the frontend, and instead access the MPEG2 files on the backend via an SMB share, and I use Xine to play them. Now that is a wonderful player - audio is never choppy, and even video playback is much smoother (granted, I still have some frame drops, as it is an old machine).

I may have lost the ease of use of the frontend (along with the commercial flagging), but that is a small price to pay for not going insane when the audio breaks at least one time per second.

Re:PVR-350 - Bad Choice for this application

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever seen the quality difference of the VIA Unichrome MPEG output compared to the Hauppage 350? You wouldnt be making these comments if you had. Its like the difference between an old VHS tape and DVD. Ive had almost the exact setup described in this article for well over a year now and played with the CVS version of the drivers for both the Unichrome card and the Hauppage about every 3 months. The Hauppage always looks MUCH better. There has been some great OSS work done on the Unichrome drivers, but they just dont perform well.

Re:PVR-350 - Bad Choice for this application

[smoker2]

Any analogue only tuner card is a bad idea, because all TV is going to be switched to digital sooner than you think. Here in the UK, they start turning off the analogue signal next year, but I've been receiving digital broadcasts for over 2 years now. I don't think it's worth spending money on something that will be obsolete in less than 2 years. My Hauppage WinTV USB DVB tuner works pretty well, if I had a better signal it would be perfect.

Re:PVR-350 - Bad Choice for this application

[Se7enLC]

Not to worry, it'll take much longer here in the US. We don't have things like "standards" for digital TV. We have digital cable and satellite providers that would cry if we made them standardize their set top boxes (I hear in the UK you don't need cable boxes at all?).

Even with digital cable and satellite, you can still use an analog tuner to record TV. I personally use a serial cable to change channels on the STB and an SVideo cable to feed the video signal to the input on my PVR. I've heard of many people using an IR Blaster to be an automatic remote control for the same purpose. It may not be digital, but it's the best there is at the moment, and it's free from all Digital Rights Management (at the moment), since I'm recording it in analog, not digital, they have no right to prevent me. Also, if it can be watched on a TV, it can be recorded by an analog tuner - the same cannot be said for digital.

Re:PVR-350 - Bad Choice for this application

[BoldAndBusted]

I agree with this AC's comments on the quality of the PVR-350's output. Unmatched in quality for SD. Yes, other cards have S-Video out. It doesn't appear to matter, to my eyes, on my decent Sony WEGA 27" TV. The PVR-350's S-Video output is almost the same sharpness, color trueness, brightness, transition integrity, etc. as the original signal from my Dish; no perceptable difference if the bitrate is high enough. And, I like that I have the ability to have S-Video Sat Output -> PVR-350 -> S-Video TV Input (no Composite and its "softness").

When I got this card back in 8/2004, I did this test. Plug in your Sat/Cable to your TV. Watch a bit. Plug in the output of the PVR-350 to the TV and the input from your Sat/Cable to the PVR-350. Then switch back. See a difference? I didn't. :)

Oh and having a recorded format ready-made to burn DVDs from (no transcoding) rocks, too. But that might be offered in other cards. The working remote also helps to keep the price shock down.

Also, one other thing. Many people here are complaining that using a dedicated card for the video/audio processing was a waste of money and could have been handled by the main CPU. Yeah, you are probably right (though this one is a bit of a challenge). But, don't you realize how *nice* it is to have surplus cycles? For me, it means I can record a show, my girlfriend can watch a show on the TV, and I can *stream* a show with MythStreamTV remotely (which requires on-the-fly transcoding with VLC) without worrying about one process trashing another's work. I know that if I want to do some crazy SQL with the MySQL DB on this box, it's not going to bring the box to it's knees and muck up a recording. You get my drift, I'm sure.

Re:NEWSFLASH:

[TobyWong]

I got a lot more crashes with mythtv than I do with MCE but yeah, the DRM thing blows.

For the windows farts like me

[Programmer_In_Traini]

I've been meaning to build the mythtv/ubuntu combo like the article says but because im a windows fart, its taking me a lot of time to simply build the box and understand it enough to fine tune it.

So what i did in the meanwhile is installing my hauppauge 350 on my own PC, a winxp box, with GB_PVR) http://www.gbpvr.com/. Its free, its windows-based (.net) and it works great. As far as i understand from it, its the closest thing to mythTv on the win platform.

in fact, it work so nicely that i dont even feel the rush of building my ubuntu pvr.

Re:For the windows farts like me

[dvdsmith]

Same here. I built built a PVR around a hauppauge 150 and at first went the MythTV route. After futzing around trying to get the remote to work as it should, I tried Windows and GBPVR. First off, Hauppauge's windows drivers just seemed more mature and stable, IMO. Second, the remote just worked. Linux/Myth zealots, flame me if you wish ;)

Re:For the windows farts like me

[dvdsmith]

For the frugal, I thought I'd include the specs my own "silent" PVR. This is also a great if you want to recycle any old hardware.

PIII 933Mhz CPU
2 x 256MB PC133 DIMMs
TNT2 32MB video card
Hauppauge PVR-150 with remote
20GB HDD for OS and Applications
100GB HDD for videos

The only fan is in the mini-ATX power supply directly over the CPU, and its undetectable from a few feet away. While it will never win a race, it does fine running GBPVR on top of Win XP. The captured video is just as good quality as when I had the PVR card in my P4 system. At some point I'll replace the video card, as it does have issues with OSD text. Other than that, I'm perfectly happy with it.

MiniITX is not worth it

[zerojoker]

I've tried to build exactly such a system. However my experience was not that positive.

As it is already mentioned in the article, you pay a decent premium for the small size. But that's not the main issue. The biggest problem is cooling. Sure the EPIA processors are quite tolerant, but for a media center silence is the main issue. The cooling fan, 40x40mm is non-standard as is the whole cooling unit. So you can't buy one of the many excellent standard silent coolers.
He replaced it with a custom 40mm fan, but I personally highly doubt that it is really silent with 3000rpm. Plus one has also to consider the airflow compared to the original fan. When I built my system, I was unable to find a similar fan with the same airflow, even considering Papst and Verax.
Another thing is, that the 1GHz CPU is really slow. I ran into problem when playing DivX or XVid movies. Then under Linux (at least at the time I was building the system, dunno where they are at this point) there were no drivers for the Hardware-MPEG2 accelerator, so DVD playbay wasn't possible.


My conculsion is: If you go for MicroATX instead, you'll have just a slightly bigger case, however Standard components. There are zillion of cheap, reliable and silent CPU coolers, Power Supplies etc. Plus any decent CPU, even a Pentium III 1 GHz is faster than this VIA processor.

Re:MiniITX is not worth it

[realkiwi]

You can have a heatpipe cooled CPU - no fans at all. mpeg2 acceleration permits 15% CPU on an M10000.

Re:MiniITX is not worth it

[Wonko]

Another thing is, that the 1GHz CPU is really slow. I ran into problem when playing DivX or XVid movies.

My 933 Crusoe based laptop has been able to play 640x480 mpeg4 videos fullscreen under Linux for the 3+ years I have had it. I regularly watch 640x272(ish) videos on my laptop streamed over ssh (using the sshfs FUSE module) over my 802.11b network. That gives me a double encryption wammy, since my wireless driver does WEP in software.

My girlfriend's P3 700 laptop can do the same just fine. She also has a MythTV box, and she has no problem watching videos from the front end on her laptop over 802.11g.

If you go for MicroATX instead, you'll have just a slightly bigger case, however Standard components. There are zillion of cheap, reliable and silent CPU coolers, Power Supplies etc.

I don't really understand why size is a factor. Are people building $600 mini itx MythTV boxes to hook up to 20 inch TVs? :p

Plus any decent CPU, even a Pentium III 1 GHz is faster than this VIA processor.

Aren't the current Via processors a decendant of the old Cyrix processors? They are probably just have a poor FPU. I would be very surprised if it is so poor that a P3 700 could beat it, though.

Re:MiniITX is not worth it

[TeknoHog]

Another thing is, that the 1GHz CPU is really slow. I ran into problem when playing DivX or XVid movies. Then under Linux (at least at the time I was building the system, dunno where they are at this point) there were no drivers for the Hardware-MPEG2 accelerator, so DVD playbay wasn't possible.

Strange... my EPIA MII, 1 GHz Nehemiah plays DivX, Xvid, DVD, you name it, just fine without using the MPEG2 acceleration. The only hardware acceleration is XVideo for fullscreen scaling. It probably helps that I use MPlayer on Gentoo.

I agree that the system is generally slow, for example my 1.6 GHz Centrino laptop is much faster. Something like 5 times faster in some cases, rather than just 1.6. But the EPIA machine is perfectly adequate for a media box.

Re:MiniITX is not worth it

[really?]

Actually, they are pretty slow. I have a few, so I am relatively familiar with them.
For example, an old PIII 500 laptop with 228 MB memory can play slingbox streams flawlessly with about 40%CPU usage. A C3 800 with 512 MB memory pegs the CPU and drops a lot of frames - regardless of whether I use the on board S3 video, or an add on Matrox video card. They are both running Win2k.

priced it out, but ...

[Russ Nelson]

I priced out one of these systems, but it was cheaper to buy a Dish Network PVR508 off E*Bay ($180). Its disk is a little small, but unlike newer PVRs from Dish, there are no monthly fees. Plus, it's nicely integrated into the Dish channel guide.

Why not using epiOS?

[Palle04]

There is already a special Linux OS for the Epia mainboards. Some impressions can be found here:

http://www.epiacenter.com/modules.php?name=Content &pa=showpage&pid=82&page=6

Re:NEWSFLASH:

[gEvil (beta)]

And a really good musician quickly learns how to work around the flaws of a cheap instrument to make it sound good.

Check out epiOS

[Palle04]

It comes with all the drivers you need for your Epia mainboards:

Some impressions:

http://www.epiacenter.com/modules.php?name=Content &pa=showpage&pid=82&page=6

The epiOS support forums:

http://www.epios.net/

A lot of users already combined it with MythTV.

Re:Impressive, but not really an all-in-one soluti

[LWATCDR]

"The 1Ghz processor in the mini ITX board would not be able to handle one large aspect of what makes mythtv better than Tivo - Games."

Why not? Many games can run just fine on a 1Ghz Processor. Maybe not the latest and greatest FPS but throw Mame, an NES emulator, SNES emulator, a Sega Emulator, a Commodore 64 Emulator and maybe an Amiga Emulator and you have a LOT of very fun casual games that you can play.

PVRs Dead?

[u16084]

With Digital Cable - Dominating in my area, all these PVRs are "useless" (for the typical home user) . TWC in my area mirrors EVERY single analog channel on to their digital tier. Channel 4 - 804 Channel 9 - 809 etc etc. They are also limiting HBO (no longer available on ANALOG) - they require you to get a dig box. So Untill CableCard support is implemented, its just a waste of time, no?. (Again TWC in my area Leases CableCards for 1.95/month each. (if i recall corretly). I DONT work for them. They also offer a DUAL Tunner DVR for $9 (cheaper then tivo - digital support etc) ITS NOT A TIVO... not even close, but it works great for your DVR functions. Ofcourse if you want to start throwing in the aspect of DRM,Ripping,and streaming correct, its not possible... But its a dvr. Records 2 Channels while playing back a 3rd.

For Discussion sake, when Analog goes away, so do these homebrew pvrs? As on the MINI's theres no ROOM to stick a CableCard reader?

Again, Just my 2 cents... Worth the investment for 1/2 TV? (no dig) - You can Loop it through your DIG box, but you loose some cool aspects of direct feeds, slow channel turning etc etc. no?

Re:PVRs Dead?

[leoc]

I use MythTV with my satellite tuner. I just have an IR blaster to change the channels and a USB video capture device to save the video. Works great.

Re:PVRs Dead?

[crow]

It's not a big deal for SDTV. You just use the analog ouput of the cable box and digitize it just like you would with analog cable. You have to use a serial cable or IR blaster to control the cable box, which can be a pain, and it means you have to have multiple cable boxes to record multiple digital cable channels.

It is a big deal for HDTV. You can use a QAM tuner to record the raw bitstream off of digital cable, but they generally encrypt everything except the broadcast channels. Comcast even encrypts the public access channels. That's where the cable card would be really nice. Or a way to break the encryption.

Re:PVRs Dead?

[Nos.]

My myth box controls my digital cable box via a serial cable. You can also do it via USB (so I've heard) or via IR.

Re:PVRs Dead?

[cr0sh]

You are right about this, and this is what I have been thinking: why bother with the cable feeds at all?

Part of my issue, when or if I get around to building my "PVR" (not really going to be a PVR as such, since it won't have a video input), is the fact that I have a bunch of old hardware that doesn't have the power to digitize video (I am planning on using an old BookPC box). I figure if that works out well (ie, I can get it to do what I want, and it is very easy to use), then I might upgrade to a real set of hardware (ie, buy new stuff specifically for the task).

My plan is to use this box to hook up to my network, and have it play MP3, OGG, and assorted video format files off my network web/file/db server (incidentally, the NFS is based on console Mandrake 10.1 running Apache 2, Samba, MySQL and PostgreSQL). I also plan to have the box (which won't have a huge harddrive - probably an old 6.4 or 8 gig IDE) be able to rip CD's and VCDs (maybe even DVDs, if I am willing to wait and wait) to the network, for later viewing/playback. Finally, I may even set it up to run MAME/MESS for gaming (plus a few other *nix games that would work well on a TV). I also want it to be able to surf the web. For all of this, I don't know if I am going to do a custom build/install, or try to find a distro that will do all of this "out of the box" (anyone have reccommendations?).

Anyhow, since I can't record cable, what then? Well, so what? I can either "browse" crap on TV, or I can browse crap on the internet. For me, I think the internet is the better choice (at least there is some interactivity). Hit Google Video or YouTube and pull my entertainment down for playback. While it isn't professional video for the most part, it is certainly as entertaining as anything on cable, sometimes more so. If I need news or whatnot, there are plenty of options on the web for that as well. In theory, I could even set things up with a web camera to allow me to capture some cheesy video and post to one of the video hosting sites for others to view! Can't do that with cable...

In short, I want to build my "PVR" to be a homebrew "IPTV" box, with the feeds being the free (cheesy) video-on-demand download services that exist today, with a few other tidbits thrown in. If it works out, and I like what I find, then ditching the cable box won't be a problem...

Re:PVRs Dead?

[babyrat]

Why are they useless? Hook up a IR sender to control the cable box and go. The HD in my mythtv box died a couple of months agao, and I've since got digital cable and the Cox HD DVR. Compared to MythTV, Cox's DVR just plain sucks. The interface is slow, clunky, searching the guide is difficult at best and for most things the quality is not that much better.

Re:PVRs Dead?

[grimwell]

The public access channels might have an "encrypted" field but it is probably set to null or "not encrypted".

I ran into this problem with my MythTV setup using Over The Air HDTV broadcasts. PBS turned to a black screen. MythTV saw the "encrypted/encoded" field and decided the broadcast was encrypted, when it actually wasn't.

I was able to find a forum posting on it but have since lost the link. sorry.

A few months later, all of my channels went black. Didn't really spend much time researching it, figured the rest of the broadcasters finally enabled the "encrypted" field(they all went black a couple minutes after midnight on 3/2/2006) and took it as a sign to finally upgrade. Upgraded to MythTV 0.19 on Gentoo and I was able to receive my HDTV broadcasts again. /shrug

Re:PVRs Dead?

[crow]

No, the public access (not PBS, but local government stuff) is encrypted.

Nothing new?

[Anonymous Coward]

This doesn't seem particularly newsworthy, there's plenty of fantastic guides out there to building a MythTV box and using Mini-ITX is generally a given if you want it for your living room rather than a great big PC. I used VIA EPIA kit to ensure it's silent too, it works a treat.

EPIA, MythTV and Mini-ITX feel like they're made for each other. It's not a long process to build a MythTV box either provided you buy a well supported card like a Happauge Nova-T. I rebuilt mine the other week on Ubuntu and the whole process took around 4 hours, no longer than it takes to build a Windows box with the basic software you'll want on it like office, maybe an IRC/FTP client and such. It takes a little longer the first time, the hardest part figuring out how to fill in the settings for your transmission mast but it's hardly that difficult.

GBPVR

[Broiler]

GBPVR allows me to only have one box to support. I use a Hauppauge MVP ($40) for my front-end, it is noiseless and makes for a nice living room experience. Pluggins for everything you can imagine and if you can imagine it better you can write your own.

Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[Abalamahalamatandra]

Unless you're not going to be very demanding on the system (i.e. actually use the best features), I wouldn't recommend using a Mini-ITX board for the main system.

One of the big advantages of Myth is its support for transcoding the recordings after they're done, removing commercials automatically, and archiving them to, say, DivX or XviD format. You're not going to be doing that with a 1 GHZ processor on a Mini ITX board.

Much better to get a real box for the backend, which does the recording, and network it to the Mini ITX box to use as the frontend, which runs the user interface.

Personally, I got sick of seeing my 2.8 GHZ P4 Hyperthreaded Sony desktop being used as the family web browser/email machine (such a waste!) so I replaced it with a nice little 2.4 GHZ Compaq EVO from Ebay and am building Myth 0.19 on Ubuntu on the Sony. It's big, it has space for two hard drives, it has a DVD burner and a CDROM drive built in, and it's SILENT, even when running 3+ hour video reencoding jobs at 100% CPU. Got a 300 GB Samsung drive for it, with room for another before I need to go external.

Today my PVR-350 comes, so that'll get me really going on the build. I'll try and use its video output, but I'm starting to see a lot of limitations with that, as the author mentions. I may get a cheap NVidea card with TV out instead. But the PVR-350's are the same price, if not cheaper, as the 250's right now, so why not get one?

Next thing to check out is getting a cable box with Firewire output from Comcast to record some HDTV on, even though I only have a standard TV. Supposedly they're required by the FCC to give me a box with Firewire that outputs at least all "must carry" (read: local broadcast) stations unencrypted, we'll see.

I currently have a Panasonic Showstopper (also known as a ReplayTV first generation) which has worked well for going on five years, but the Myth user interface simply blows it out of the water - killer searching and recording options, a remote REAL-TIME web interface (Replay has one, but the box only dials up once a night - wanna record something now when you're at work, you're out of luck). Plus weather, RSS, and a general video storage area that will also mean I can move my XBox running XBox Media Center to another room.

Once this is all happy, I may look into getting some Mini-ITX boxes with monitors for the kids' rooms and load Ubuntu on them - voila, web surfing and email that I can control and monitor, and Myth frontend machines for them to watch shows on, which I can also monitor.

Geek family nirvana!

IR Blaster complex? Bah!

[BoldAndBusted]

From the article:

Using an IR Blaster will enable the PVR to control the set top box, but this is an extra, and complex, installation.

Nah, just get this: http://www.mytvstore.com/product_id_004.html. The MyBlaster/Serial eliminates needing LIRC for the IR Blaster (which the article's author could then leave for just his PVR-350's remote, as I have). Use the excellent Perl script that is found here: http://www.mytvstore.com/mythtv_linux.html, set the device smack in front of your cable/sat boxes IR reciever (I find a small patch of double sided tape lasts for over a year, at least ;) ), and you're all set. No muss, no fuss.

And did I say that this requires *no* LIRC fiddling? OK, just making sure.

On Demand

[Nerdfest]

On demand is pretty cool on its own, but is not really equivalent for a number of reasons. Currently, not everything is 'On Demand', meaning that if yu don't watch a show when you see it on the list, you may not see it again. With a PVR, you get to store it indefinitely. I also haven't seen HD shows on demand yet, but that may just be a limitation in my area.

Video signal distance limits

[hal9000(jr)]

I was thinking of running a MythTV in my office to my TV in another room altogether. What is the distance limits for the vidao output?

Re:Video signal distance limits

[Broiler]

What is the distance limits for the vidao output?

1 - 100 meters over CAT5 if you build a front-end

2- 2 meters for video extension

Re:Video signal distance limits

[jargoone]

2 meters for video extension

2 meters?!? What kind of video run are you talking about?

From my equipment rack to my plasma, I have composite, s-video, component, and HDMI runs. They are each, at minimum, 45 feet (15 meters). The picure is perfect on each. I initially had some noise, but it was easily fixed with a ground loop isolator.

Re:Video signal distance limits

[Broiler]

*Anything* can be done...ClearCube Technology can send VGA 200 Meters on CAT5, http://www.clearcube.com/ but that does not mean it is to spec.

BTW how much did that cable cost?

Re:Video signal distance limits

[dubiousmike]

svideo can go about 200 feet. You would have to cable tie some audio cable and I do not know the limits to regular crappy rca audio cable. You could always setup some wireless speakers and not deal with audio cables.

Re:Video signal distance limits

[jargoone]

For what kind of signal is the maximum cable length 2 meters?

Regarding the cable cost:
* I constructed the composite and component from solid copper RG-59, so the cost was pretty neglibible.
* The 50' s-video was maybe $8 or so.
* The 50' HDMI was surprisingly cheap, at about $60 shipped from eBay (user pro_cable, no affiliation). I was skeptical of the quality, but it looks and feels top-notch, and exhibits no obvious degradation.

How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Phreakiture]

Ubuntu + EPIA = [4295473.283000] hdb: timeout waiting for DMA [4295473.283000] hdb: drive not ready for command [4295473.386000] hdb: no DRQ after issuing MULTWRITE_EXT

Search for this combination of errors on Google and it turns up half a million posts from people pleading for help, in all cases I have seen, it is Debian-derivative + EPIA, and met with "Dude, your HDD is bad".

I've used multiple HDDs, of different brands, models, generations, and multiple motherboards, and multiple Linux distros. All of the HDDs plus ubuntu plus EPIA give this problem. Change the distro to Slackware and the problem goes away. Change to Fedora, the problem goes away. Change to Debian or Knoppix, it remains.

So, how did they fix this? I need to know

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[(H)elix1]

Not your hard drive - you need to update your kernel. Slack and Fedora may have it in there by default. SuSE will give you the same issue if you don't.

http://www.epiawiki.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=E piaHowto

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Gothmolly]

Maybe because you insist on being a ubuntu fag^Wfanboy. Choose a real distro.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Phreakiture]

Not your hard drive - you need to update your kernel. Slack and Fedora may have it in there by default. SuSE will give you the same issue if you don't.

Thanks. I'll have a look at this after i try messing with longhaul.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Phreakiture]

Maybe because you insist on being a ubuntu fag^Wfanboy. Choose a real distro.

Maybe you are blind. Let me add some emphasis to my original post....

"I've used multiple HDDs, of different brands, models, generations, and multiple motherboards, and multiple Linux distros. All of the HDDs plus ubuntu plus EPIA give this problem. Change the distro to Slackware and the problem goes away. Change to Fedora, the problem goes away. Change to Debian or Knoppix, it remains."

I've tried them all, but I will have you know that the only permanent installs of Linux on my network are all Slackware. This will remain the case until I find one I like better. Ubuntu shows promise --as a workstation only-- but for this one problem.

Fuck you and the whore you rode in on.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[orv]

Most of the dma issues are caused by the longhaul module.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Phreakiture]

Most of the dma issues are caused by the longhaul module.

That's two votes for longhaul. I have just gotten home and disabled it and rebooted in the past five minutes or so, so it is too early to tell if that fixed it, but by the end of the night, I should have a pretty good idea. Thank you very much for the reply.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[orv]

Another thing to experiment with, if that doesn't work is to see if the problem continues if you remove the CDROM.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Phreakiture]

Another thing to experiment with, if that doesn't work is to see if the problem continues if you remove the CDROM.

Nah, that's not it. I've had the CDROM out a couple of times for other reasons, but the DRQ problem remained. Removing longhaul looks like it has fixed the problem.

Thank you for the reply.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Gothmolly]

Mod me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Phreakiture]

Mod me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Already have, and I doubt it. Just being an asshole won't get you anywhere.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Gothmolly]

I wonder how many times I can get you to reply before you give up. I suppose you just can't resist, working on the fantasy that you'll come up with the ultimate flame, after which I'll bow to your superiority.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Phreakiture]

You started it.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Gothmolly]

YABT. YHL. HAND.

Re:How did they solve the DRQ problem?

[Phreakiture]

How do you figure I have lost? I shut you up for three whole days!

The real potential for this would be skipping...

[Channard]

.. not just adverts, mind, but any rubbish in shows. Take CSI - you could program it to not record the boring flash-cut science bits in which the characters pretend they're doing real-world science work, when in fact they're using technology that doesn't actually exist. Cutting the fat off shows could get them down to half an hour of proper watchable footage.

Seven pages??????? no "print" button?????

[advocate_one]

sheesh.... the things some people will do to information to get ad revenue....

Myth frontend vs. backend

[lividdr]

A better way to do a MythTV PVR on an ITX is to make the "set top" box a front-end only with TV-out connected to your TV. Plug the cable into a noisy server with disk/etc in another room and have it handle all the recording/archiving duties. You could then eliminate the HD from the ITX box and run a LiveCD setup like KnoppMyth.

At home I use a laptop as a frontend to stream live/recorded TV anywhere in the house via 802.11g, which works great for everything except "perfect" quality DVD rips.

Re:Myth frontend vs. backend

[LordSnooty]

Yes - I do this. And if you use BitTorrent you don't even need the TV card. There's not enough decent stuff on UK TV to justify a separate TV card. Anything decent that you missed can be found in the "usual" places".

And surely everyone has a stand-alone DVD player, so an optical drive in this Mini-ITX setup might be overkill for some. Keep it slim and it keeps the noise down.

Re:Myth frontend vs. backend

[forkazoo]

Could you tell a little bit more about your setup? I want a media center system, but I don't want any live TV at all. I just want to have all my media stored on my Linux server, accessed over 802.11g, using a remote and a simple interface that even my room mate can use without any problems. I was hoping to use an X-Box, but I killed mine while trying to mod it, so now I'm looking at a PC/Linux solution...

Re:Myth frontend vs. backend

[stabiesoft]

This is basically what I do. I have a roku HD1000 as my front end. It has no fan, runs a basic linux, and has a remote control. Then I have a remote box with a HDTV tuner card in it with big disks. The roku mounts the box with the HDTV card/disks. Granted it would be nice if the roku remote could program the backend box (and maybe it could, I just don't find it that hard to program using cron or just login and start a recording if needed) I want the HT to be as quiet as possible. I don;t want a bunch of fan noise distracting during the quiet parts of a movie etc. I have a DVD player, so why would I put it on disk?

Re:Myth frontend vs. backend

[LordSnooty]

I use a VIA M10000N, 1GHz with a tiny fan that creates little noise. I put it in a slimline mini-itx case with two small fans to push some air through. I use Knoppmyth and install on a local 40GB hard disk. I store media on Windows & Linux servers, accessed over Samba on the wire, and I put some media on the local disk. I mount all the shares at startup, in the /myth directory, and MythTV goes off and finds all the titles. Finally I use an ATI Remote Wonder (RF version) to control it from my chair. Total cost was around 250GBP. Everything you need to know is at the Knoppmyth forum.

My HD MythTV system

[Yeechang Lee]

I've thrice previously posted on Slashdot regarding my MythTV experiences. This comment should be read in context. (The main changes are that 0.19 has indeed fixed the OSD and the skipping-tuner issues. Everything else, both good and bad, I mentioned still hold true today. I *think* the newest KnoppMyth release actually now supports SATA drives, although I'll bet USB keyboards and mice are still considered suspect. I still disagree with the Pavlovian suggestion of MythTV--as we've once again seen in this thread--without appropriate caveats to anyone asking for an easy-to-use MythTV setup.)

Since the most-recent posting focused on the negative, I'll focus on the positive today. Thanks to MythTV and about $1100 in parts (not including $2150 for a 2TB NAS), I have a more-or-less reliable, elegant-looking (both hardware- and interfacewise) video recorder that:

* Simultaneously records from two cable boxes and one over-the-air tuner card, all in HDTV.
* Gives me easy access to my recorded programs in alphabetic and record-date form, with multiple sort and grouping options (all the "How I Met Your Mother" episodes get grouped under that heading, for example), and due to a well-designed MySQL backend, no slowdowns no matter how big my library gets. (Any TiVo owner knows just how stupendously slow their boxes can get with a few hundred hours' worth of storage.)
* Gives me easy access to my AVI library in nicely-organized form based on the directory tree.
* Premarks programs recorded on non commercial-free channels with appropriate cues so that I can manually (or automatically) skip whole ad blocks with one button. (Tip: For North American viewers, "Logo Detection" alone is probably the best choice for commercial detection. It's faster and has fewer false positives than "All.")

My job requires long hours. I often fall asleep exhausted on the sofa soon after arriving home while trying to relax by watching the TV. But when I'm awake, it's nice to know that at any time I have about 200 programs or about 340 hours' worth of Hollywood movies, dramas, and comedies, almost all in HD, to enjoy. That's worth the money and setup time in my book.

Free dishnetwork with DVB-s and mythtv

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a DVB-s card + Mythtv point your satellite dish to a dishnetwork satellite. Install the magic software softcam software, and you get your self a magic black box that gets all the dishnetwork programs for free. it just graws the mpeg file from the satellite feed with 5.1 surround sound and all.

http://www.happysat.org/ check linux section.

Re:Free dishnetwork with DVB-s and mythtv

[sarvinc]

Of course this would be stealing and it's not as straight forward as you make it sound. After a little googling it's made apparent that you do need a key from you card which is regularly updated.

Re:Free dishnetwork with DVB-s and mythtv

[Anonymous Coward]

The encryption has been hacked and the keys autoroll. :).
And if you cannot make it autoroll google can helpyo ufind it. People just like to share everything.

Re:NEWSFLASH:

[Anonymous Coward]

A truly great musician can make a $200 cello and make it sound like the best $200 cello on the planet, but it still won't sound like a Stradivarius. A bad musician, however, can take a Stradivarius and make it sound like a $200 pressboard cello.

That said, Linux is more like a mid-range instrument. The beginner can still make it sound like $200, the expert can make it sound wonderful, given enough effort, but still not quite as good as something designed for a particular purpose.

Re:NEWSFLASH:

[peragrin]

I got rid of the DVR because it was unstable. even with a tuner box, I have to reboot it once a month, or I can't access Video on Demand .

bloody windows embedded.

all the bugs of windows and no way to upgrade it.

Welcome to the club - or: What else is new?

[haraldm]

Man, I did this 4 years ago with a Via Epia-5000 board, a Morex Cubid case, a 2.5" harddisk and a rev 1.3 full featured card. The system ran on a SUSE 9 distro with vdr and dvb compiled locally.

Since somebody was asking for an out-of-the-box-distro: SUSE 9.3 and later does the trick. LinVDR as well. Duh.

Re:Alternative (mod down the FUD)

[voidstin]

Did you miss the announcement of the dual core mac mini with the GMA 950 chip? and the recent update of EyeTV that supports 1080i on the mini?

http://hometheater.consumerelectronicsnet.com/arti cles/viewarticle.jsp?id=38271

http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/

mmm.... FUD.

Dealing with Satellite TV ?

[Builder]

I would love a PVR that can deal with Satellite TV. I have a Sky subscription, and I hardly use it, mainly because most of what I want to watch is on at inconvenient times for me.

Sky+ is Ok, but I don't want a solution that turns into a brick and won't let me access any of the stuff that I've recorded when I stop subscribing to them. I'd also like to be able to archive stuff off to DVD / elsewhere at times.

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[Paul Carver]

One of the big advantages of Myth is its support for transcoding the recordings after they're done, removing commercials automatically, and archiving them to, say, DivX or XviD format. You're not going to be doing that with a 1 GHZ processor on a Mini ITX board.

Is that really one of the big advantages? Because I've wanted to do that and it's the main reason I started messing around with MythTV years ago, but I've never found any clear documentation on how to do it and I haven't had any luck getting it to work.

Commercial detection in MythTV seems too bad to be usable. It's very unclear from the documentation how transcoding is supposed to work. When I did some experimenting with it all I got were unplayable recordings that look awful.

It might be my hardware. The PVR350 seems really limited. I have to access the UI over a VNC session because I can't get it to display the UI on the TV and I can't get lirc working. All the various howtos seem very specific to particular Linux distributions and I think they also skip key steps.

Too many bullshit ads

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it possible to block the adlinks bullshit so we don't have any of those
ridiculous ads?

Re:Too many bullshit ads

[PenGun]

Adds ... I havn't seen one in a long time. I kinda forgot they exist, all I ever see is maybe "advertisment" where it's supposed to be. Go hunt an addblocker on da Google. The list pasted into userContent.css in your chrome dir seems to be most effective, mine's been good for years. If you don't have da fox this won't work BTW.

      PenGun
  Do What Now ??? ... Standards and Practices !

Simplist - Where it is hosted

[AviLazar]

The simplist method is to charge the rules for where the site is based from. This is the Internet, I can access a website from anywhere in the world (assuming no filters) so to make some website in say NY suffer the penalties of another state (or for say another country) is insane. There is no way anything could get done. Not to mention, the Internet is generally accessed in the privacy of someone's home or work. It doesn't matter if the community in an area views porn as wrong, a person is allowed to view porn in the privacy of their own home (at work is subject to office protocal). Or let us say a person was not allowed to view porn, in their own home (assuming Alabama) then that person is responsible for breaking the law, not the website....the website provider did not break the law.

If I had a porn website hosted in Alabama, and Alabama forbade those kinds of sites - then I should be held liable.

There is precedent for this, btw. If you are from Pennsylvania, and someone gets into a car accident with you in NY (fault does not matter) then you have to go to NY court to settle. So I do not know why they are making such a big deal of this case.

Remove the longhaul module

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a problem with DMA and the longhaul power module on the EPIA motherboards.

I was having the same problem with multiple drives. Once I removed longhaul it works like a charm.

Re:Remove the longhaul module

[Phreakiture]

There is a problem with DMA and the longhaul power module on the EPIA motherboards.

I was having the same problem with multiple drives. Once I removed longhaul it works like a charm.

Thanks. I'll try this first, then follow on with the kernel patch that another user recommended.

Been there, done that

[tyrdvyr b.s.]

Hey, I saw something just like that on eBay for less than $100. Comes fully assembled, runs linux, has a sweet UI and a nice case. I think it's called TiVo.

Re:Been there, done that

[Ph33r th3 g(O)at]

Does yours work without a monthly payment in perpetuity?

Re:Been there, done that

[tyrdvyr b.s.]

If I told you, I'd have to shoot you!

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[Se7enLC]

Get a PVR-150 or 500, then, they are MUCH cheaper than the 350. You'll pull your hair out trying to get the PVR-350 to work perfectly, and even when you get it working, you'll find that the MythTV developers are no longer supporting it (and won't be fixing bugs with the TV-Out functionality)

VDR works but TV sucks

[PenGun]

For Linux it's hard to beat a sat card and the VDR, softcam etc setup.

  I am thinking of selling my hardware because two complete satellites, completely owned, with maybe 800 channels of PPV etc have nothing worth watching.

  My stuff I downloaded is better than anything presently on TV and the ability to laugh at FOX news is not really enough. I can grab Aqua Teens etc off the net.

  Boy talk about a vast wasteland, when Puppy Bowl 2 is the best thing on TV ...

        PenGun
    Do What Now ??? ... Standards and Practices !

My intention

[smoker2]

is to build a system composed thus:

One server with dual (or even triple) DVB-T cards and a lot of disk space plus net access.

3 mini itx boxes with small hard drives and ethernet.

The DVB-T cards would most likely be the Nebula DigiTV which you can set up so that as long as a machine has the software installed, it can receive its signal from the main box. Great. A small box in each room to receive the signal over the LAN plus browse the net, do email, watch movies and recordings saved on the servers drives.

Admittedly, the prices for some of the miniITX setups are quite high at the moment, but if you don't need a full pc in each room, why have one ?

The only problem (for me anyway) is that the Nebula software is Windows specific. Apparently you can get the card working under linux, but I haven't got a setup to play with to test the networking yet.

Another nice thing about the Nebula cards, is that because they transmit the whole multiplex over the network, even with only one card installed, you could still watch a different channel on one of the "slave" boxes (as long as that channel is in the same multiplex as the server is tuned to). I think you can even record a whole multiplex at once, and then select which channel you require at viewing time.

All I'm waiting for really is the right price.

Re:NEWSFLASH:

[Golias]

I gotta love how a whole string of on-topic metaphors are being modded down as "off topic" by one dufus with mod points who doesn't seem to be able to folow the analogy.

I sort-of agree with the AC who replied to you, except I think he's selling Linux short in its capacity to be a best-in-class enterprise solution in some settings.

HDD installation.

[antdude]

Doesn't this still require users to install something on HDD? I was expecting this be a LiveCD that doesn't need any installations. The only thing on HDD is to access videos.

Re:HDD installation.

[DougWebb]

MythTV has a backend and frontend; the backend is responsible for recording shows off the TV card, and the frontend is responsible the GUI and playback. This allows one of the really cool things about MythTV: the backend and frontend can run on different computers on your network, and you can have as many frontends as your network and backend can handle concurrently.

IIRC, Knoppmyth requires a hard drive installation if you want to run it as a backend, but if you're just doing a frontend then you can run off the CD. This is pretty good for the frontends: no noisy harddrive, and no per-system administration if you've got a frontend on every TV in the house. (I'm pretty sure the CD would spin down and stay that way once the software is up and running.)

Only in the US

[PontifexPrimus]

This solution will work fine as long as you live in the USA. In the rest of the world second hand TiVos are quite hard to come by, whereas the computer parts are available around the globe.

Re:Only in the US

[Pieroxy]

Hello, welcome on your first day.

Experienced people around here all know that everyone worth its weight of salt lives in the USA.

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[Anonymous Coward]

You realise you can get non-Via chips in Mini-ITX right? You can get a 2.4 Ghz p4 CPU if you want.

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[Anonymous Coward]

Commercial detection is great when it works. When it doesn't work you can still fast forward past them. I also set my jump-ahead length to 5 mins which is a pretty fair estimate of the length of most commercial breaks in my area.

I agree the 350 is not easy to set up for tv-out (or at least the proper XF86Config-4 setup is not intuitive at all). The current version of KnoppMyth has scripts to set it up properly, however.

I'd recommend playing around with that and then if you want to switch to a different distribution later on, you can mooch the XF86Config-4 file from your KnoppMyth install.

I have the PVR-350 working properly, doing both input and output and I'm pretty happy with it. It just took a lot of tweaking.

Also the current non-beta ivtv drivers have some bugs, at least with that card. Every so often (in my case days / weeks), ivtv-dec will lock up when fast forwarding, taking the cpu usage to 99%. You can still ssh in and kill stuff but it's a little annoying and I wish they'd fix it.

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[SEAL]

The PVR-350 and PVR-500 are roughly the same price. I have a 350 and I'm pretty happy with it.

One nice thing about the 350 is that you can record and playback at the same time, all in hardware. Which leaves your entire CPU free to do commercial flagging. That gets the flagging pretty close to realtime so you can start watching a show only a couple mins after the start time and avoid the commercials. Having the CPU free is also great for transcoding.

That said, the 350 is still a single tuner, unlike the 500. So they each have pros and cons. I never heard anything about whether or not MythTV supports the 350, but it doesn't seem like their issue anyhow. The support is needed in X and the ivtv driver. Hauppauge donated some 350s to the KnoppMyth guys, so their latest versions have some fairly good setup scripts to get your XF86Config set up properly if you're an owner of that card.

Pre-packaged mini-itx mythtv distro

[sglow]

Checkout www.linpvr.org. This is a pre-packaged mythtv distro that is designed to run on a mini-ITX box. Its designed to boot over the network from a server and run on a diskless box.

I have been using it for a couple years now and it works great. I use a seperate computer for the backend. The mini-itx box currently uses a fanless chassis and doesn't include a hard drive or DVD. It's totally silent.

Shuttle duh!

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy a Shuttle!! OMG why waste your time on this?

Re:Geek family nirvana!

[Medievalist]

I may look into getting some Mini-ITX boxes with monitors for the kids' rooms and load Ubuntu on them - voila, web surfing and email that I can control and monitor, and Myth frontend machines for them to watch shows on, which I can also monitor.

I tried putting PCs in their rooms, and ended up taking them back out again when I moved into our current home.

Now I have a long benchtop across one wall of the den, which I can easily see from kitchen, den, or dining room (the places my spouse and I spend most of our time at home), with a couple of computers and a printer on it.

One of the computers is a laptop with a docking station (they used to both be, but laptop video isn't burly enough for my son's games) so the computer can be removed and taken somewhere quieter for typing up homework or whatever. BUT the network connection is to the dock, so no hiding in the room for hours experimenting with the Internet without parental knowledge! The wife and I have wireless-enabled laptops for work, and I have a wireless AP I can turn on, but we rarely use them in the house.

See, when the kids are on the Internet, if they are in a communal family area they are still interacting with the family, and they can have a fundamentally more educational interaction with the networked world. I pass through, busy with other things, and if I see something on-screen that I'm not sure about, or that I disaprove of, I can stop and have a conversation with the kids about why I have a problem with that image or connection, and give them a more useful experience and better guidance than I can by reviewing logs later or simply blocking things.

It's better for kids to know why you feel the way you do about things, and it's easier to guide their on-line experience, when you are real-time evaluating that experience as frequently as possible. It also puts you in a default role of mentor rather than as controller or prohibitor. You can deviate from that default model if you feel you must, obviously.

You will need to work with the architecture of your house, your computer equipment, and your family life, but I strongly recommend not putting PCs in the kids rooms. I tried it, and (for my family at least) having computer use out in the open was a better idea.

But does it do HDTV?

[bmcent1]

I tried KnoppMyth and then a straigh MythTV install on Debian Testing. I loved the idea. I got it to work sometimes. But once I got my new TV, I AM LOVING HDTV. I have an HDTV tuner card for my PC, but trust me that it requires something like a 3GHz processor to to 720p at 30 FPS, regardless of the fact that HDTV is already MPEG2 encoded and I have a beefy video card. Recording HDTV is easy since it is already encoded. Playing it back on a "quiet" PC has been the biggest obstacle I've seen so far and why I'm currently renting an awful Comcast/Motorola DVR instead. Even the Motorola is buggy and needs to be power cycled about once a week, but it has been far more reliable for me than MythTV at this point and it fits and is relatively quiet in my A/V stack. I want MythTV to succeed! As an extensible platform, it has a lot of potential. But I think we're still a year or more out from quiet, small form factor, and HDTV capable when it comes to MythTV. Prove me wrong, please! I'd like to hear what I overlooked ;-)

Re:But does it do HDTV?

[bmcent1]

Oops... should have used the preview button...

I tried KnoppMyth and then a straigh MythTV install on Debian Testing. I loved the idea. I got it to work sometimes. But once I got my new TV, I AM LOVING HDTV, and had to leave MythTV behind for now.

I have an HDTV tuner card for my PC, but trust me that it requires something like a 3GHz processor to to 720p at 30 FPS, regardless of the fact that HDTV is already MPEG2 encoded and I have a beefy video card.

Recording HDTV is easy since it is already encoded. Playing it back on a "quiet" PC has been the biggest obstacle I've seen so far and why I'm currently renting an awful Comcast/Motorola DVR instead. Even the Motorola STB is buggy and needs to be power cycled about once a week, but it has been far more reliable for me than MythTV sp far and it fits and is relatively quiet in my A/V stack.

I want MythTV to succeed! As an extensible platform, it has a lot of potential. But I think we're still a year or more out from quiet, small form factor, and HDTV capable when it comes to MythTV. Prove me wrong, please! I'd like to hear what I overlooked ;-)

Where are the software details?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was hoping to see some details on the software challenges. It gets all glossed over in one paragraph.

As expected, the Ubuntu installation was problem-free. At this point the fun was over and it was time to really get to work. The system would have to be updated and then made ready for my PVR software, MythTV. This process was quite involved and I expected it to take a good piece of time up, but the good news is that there are a number of guides available which will walk Ubuntu users through the process. None of these are perfect and they are all basically similiar, but by using my own knowledge and some pointers from these the process was not overly difficult. Here are links to a few of the guides.

None of the guides are perfect? Okay so how about improving them or telling us where they were wrong or where they had to deviate.

I was going to post this comment in the XYZ forums but I don't need yet another username and password for yet another site.

Re:Geek family nirvana!

[NDPTAL85]

Simply put I myself grew up on the internet, having it alone in my room. Discovered all sorts of things including yes porn and I did not grow up to become a murder or sex offender or anything of the link. So if it was ok for me, why wouldn't it be ok for my kids? Or even your kids?

P.S. I'm looking for something deeper here than just "Well I'm not you, so I'd do things differently.."

Re:Geek family nirvana!

[Anonymous Coward]

I tend to agree with the grandparent. I think it's better to have a rec room or whatever, where your kid is not isolated. Plus if you have more than one child, they may interact with each other and learn more than they would on their own. Not to mention it's more social and even more fun (think LAN game party). My place is set up like that because I also use it as a workshop to build PCs and/or work on hardware.

Granted there's a time when you need to focus, write a term paper, or whatever. But it's easy enough to shuffle things around when that need arises.

FYI stay away from VIA if using MythTV

[Easy2RememberNick]

FYI from what I've read, and experienced first-hand (grrr!), MythTV with VIA chipsets makes for a bad experience. Everyone knows ATI all-in-wonder don't play nice together but VIA seems to be just as bad, especially for anyone new to Linux. Add a Hauppauge TV card (to a system with VIA) and that makes matters worse. The "DMA bug" or whatever it is still seems to plague any VIA based MythTV projects.

Mini and Turion ML-44

[sgt scrub]

Very nice. I prefer this mini board though, and I would go with a Turion instead of the 3000+

Full specifications: NVidia nForce 4 C51PV/MCP51 chipset; Supports AMD Athlon 64, Turon, Sempron 64 processors; Socket 754 with Hyper Transport 800+ MHz; Supports DDR 400 Memory up to 1GB; 1 PCI Slot; Integrated NVidia 6150 Graphics; VGA; DVI (underneath the VGA socket); HDTV (with optional cable); Realtek 6 channel Audio; 1 x 10/100 Ethernet + 1 x Gigabit Ethernet; 4 x SATA II channels (supporting RAID 0,1,5 and 0+1)

http://www.mini-itx.com/2006/03/09/

Re:Alternative (mod down the FUD)

[morgan_greywolf]

Yeah. You'll need the dual core machine to do HiDef, though, and that's not $599, that's $799, plus all the of the "hidden" costs another poster pointed out, such as the need to buy Roxio Toast to do DVD burning.

You're easily into the $1000+ range, when you could have just thrown together a MiniITX Linux box with Knopmyth for half that price with no additional effort.

Why Happauge

[silicon not in the v]

The main reason why the Happauge cards are recommended over the ton of cheap capture cards out there is that the Happauge ones have an mpg encoder built onto the card, which takes most of the work off of the processor. You can use a cheaper computer with less grunt for recording then. Also, you can do stuff like putting in 2+ capture cards and the computer doesn't get swamped.

If you want more power...

[spoop]

Via mainboards with those little ole Cyrix's aren't the only boards of the Mini-ITX formfactor. You can get Pentium M and Pentium 4, and an AMD socket 754 board was announced, too.

My Setup - mythTV backend / XBMC frontend

[Swift Gilmer]

I didnt't see this comment - but I have had a hybrid mythtv system runnning for almost a year now. Backend - Cheap computer parts off ebay and basement AMD 1Gig - had to replace a burnt out chip on ebay $40 256 Ram 2 200 Gig Drives - I had to buy this cheap PVR 250 DVD drive - used to convert DVD to DIVX Debian / MythTV Torrent server running off RSS (SiFi Channel) FrontEnd Xbox - Softmode no HD replacement XBMC - IF you dont know what this is then its a sad day Mythtv Python Script run from XBMC Remote - remote for the XBOX so I could use the same one for TV/XBOX Thats it! To program my Mythtv I just update recording info via Firefox anywhere. My only comment is that once you get it running DONT apt-get any new versions of MYTHTV because sometime upgrades blow up your database. Other than that I think I might get the new HD encoder that works with Linux or just another PVR250 ($80) Later - I need to check my recorded show tonight from work...

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[Se7enLC]

I have a PVR-350 as well. If I were going back and doing it again, I'd just get a normal nvidia card with TV-Out. Looking at the specs, it seems nice to have video in/out in hardware, but they don't tell you how many hoops you have to jump through. (I do have it up and working beautifully, but there are some things that will never work, due to lack of driver/myth support)

The PVR-350 has two output modes - Framebuffer X and MPEG2. MPEG2 output works great. Framebuffer X is slow and unaccelerated (XV is half-working, but OpenGL will never work, and it will always be slow).

From a high-level view, the output should be handled by the drivers, yes. But since the PVR-350 has both types of output, the application needs to be aware of that and handle it accordingly. Things like fast forwarding, rewinding, overlaying the guide data, going through menus, etc. You have to be talking to ivtv X driver AND the ivtv mpg driver. Myth is always adding new features that are really cool (I'm a big fan of the speed up / slow down without pitch change. You can watch a show at down to 0.5x or up to 2x without the voices sounding like darth vader or the chipmunks. The PVT-350 won't do it, because it's a feature of the software MPEG decoding). Fast forward / rewind are also features of the mpeg decoder, and they don't work on the PVR-350 anymore (you can ff at 3x only. Anything faster or any rewinding and your playback gets borked, you have to stop and start again).

The PVR-350 also has audio output. Great, unless you want to listen to the audio of something that isn't an MPEG2 file. You then have to get a 5" loopback cable and plug the output of the 350 into the input of a sound card, and plug the output of the sound card to the input of the TV. Lame, huh? It's the only option.

Transcoding - you can't do it! If you tell myth to auto-transcode your files, it will make them unplayable on the PVR-350 output. That's because the PVR-350 can only play MPEG2 (not rtjpeg or mpeg4, etc)

Basically, because it's so different from normal X playback, it's hard to support.

So the major selling points of the PVR-350 are hardware MPEG2 decompression, video out. Take a look at the newer NVidia cards. You'll find that they also have hardware decompression (even MPEG4) and video out. They are better supported (nvidia binary drivers are very mature in linux), very common (everyone has an nvidia card). You'll notice just as little cpu usage when decompressing MPEG2, and everything will just work better.

Another reason I wanted the PVR-350 was so that I could have TVOut playing WHILE using my normal X-session for other things. It does work with the PVR-350, mpeg output works concurrently with X. Framebuffer X, however, doesn't, so the menu system doesn't work with X. The good news is, X.org 6.9 and 7.0 allow multiple concurrent displays on separate X-sessions, so that ability is now a moot point, as any card will be able to do just that (and you could always xinerama two screens together)

So yeah, I'm a little bitter about having bought a PVR-350.

PVR, EPG in AUS?

[watterman]

Has anyone had any experience with MythTV or Win MCE in Australia. Everything I've read is so US-Centric. Dammit, there are countries without TiVO!!! And no digital cable to my door. It also seems there is no EPG is Aus, except subscription based ones like icetv.com.au (AUD$3/wk!!!), and I ain't paying for 'nuffin!

Re:PVR, EPG in AUS?

[Timbotronic]

You can get free TV listings for Australia (and a bunch of other countries) at XMLTV. Haven't used it myself so I'm not sure about accuracy, but it is free.

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[Anonymous Coward]

Transcoding - you can't do it! If you tell myth to auto-transcode your files, it will make them unplayable on the PVR-350 output. That's because the PVR-350 can only play MPEG2 (not rtjpeg or mpeg4, etc)

Not true - I have this working. *However*, it will only output sound from its hardware decoder. So you must have the loopback cable (which you already mentioned) or you will get no sound when playing back MPEG-4 encoded files.

Anyhow just thought I'd mention it.

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[SEAL]

Sorry forgot I wasn't logged in.

Let me clarify that last post by saying you have to set up a standard V4L decoder (software decoder) to playback MPEG-4 files. The default is the hardware encoder -- entitled "PVR250/350" , which can only playback MPEG-2.

I would assume this is also the case with a PVR-250 but it really isn't a big deal. Just have to switch the decoder.

known hardware, prebuilt software

[flacco]

the hard part is getting it all working for a given set of mongrel hardware. i think it would be great if there were a prebuilt MythTV package for an exact set of hardware, so all you'd have to do is buy the identical hardware, assemble it, install the binaries, and you're ready to play.

even better would be different packages for different price-points and performance expectations. eg, if you want to record two shows at once and play back simultaneously, you shell out for one set of hardware and download the corresponding packages.

Cablecard not going away

[voidstin]

You have a good point - putting media onto the Tivo (ie DVDs) is something you're going to have a problem with. My point is that the tivo does quite a lot, quite well, with almost 0 config.

As for cablecard, the 1.0 implementation was pitiful. 2.0 will be slightly better, and OCAP shows promise. It's definitely not going away. And the good news for all of us is that cablecard tuner cards (as well as satellite cards for DirecTV) should ship some time this year. It's still a good move by sharp - Cable card in an expensive display is a dumb idea. You want sharp providing your PVR/PPV/guide software? There's gonna be a box plugged into it somewhere - put the cablecard in that.

http://www.opencable.com/ocap/
http://www.hdbeat.com/2005/10/19/cable-cards-2-0-c oming-in-2006/

Kids and the internet

[jawtheshark]

I don't have kids yet, and right now I don't know if I'll give them a PC when their time comes. Alas, it seems to be pretty much common that kids have their PC in their rooms. It's going to be hard to argue with them if they can say "but all my friends have their PC in their room". I know, I know: "If all of your friends jumped a cliff would you?" is a counterargument, but one I hated myself when my parents used it.

I personally didn't have my own PC until I was 17, and the family PC was always in the living room and had to be shared with my siblings. That was, of course, years before we had the internet but getting pr0n wasn't a problem by sharing with friends either... ;-)

Anyway, I think that if I'd give my kids a computer for their room, they will have to ask me to activate the internet. I like the fact that all my machines are networked, and do not want to give up that functionality.
Personally, my plan is just to setup a firewall rule that their PC's won't be able to access the internet. When they ask, I can activate it and spend time with them on the internet.

Actually, I already do that when the 14 year old brother of my wife comes to visit us. He only has access to my wifes PC and after a certain hour, a cronjob desactivates the internet connection. If he complains, I just tell him that I can't do anything for him. Of course, that's a lie, but what do I care?

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[Se7enLC]

Right, so it will work - but if you switch to a software decoder, that defeats the purpose of using the PVR-350. (and plus, the PVR-350 is generally too jumpy and slow to play anything but MPEG2, even with XV. Read the mythtv user lists for details)

Basically, the workaround for most things bad about the PVR-350 are to not use the MPEG2 decoder and instead use framebuffer X. The downside is that it's slow and that you don't get any benefit over using a normal nvidia card.

Re:Geek family nirvana!

[Medievalist]

Simply put I myself grew up on the internet, having it alone in my room. Discovered all sorts of things including yes porn and I did not grow up to become a murder or sex offender or anything of the link. So if it was ok for me, why wouldn't it be ok for my kids? Or even your kids?

I hope you won't be too insulted, but by my standards you aren't "grown up" yet. My grandfather was born in the 19th century, my parents remember WWII rationing rather clearly, and I was writing code when Metcalfe invented Ethernet. Everything's relative (except the speed of light in a vacuum).

P.S. I'm looking for something deeper here than just "Well I'm not you, so I'd do things differently.."

I understand, but really that's the only answer I've got. I've got the economic resources to raise my kids the best way I know how, and that's going to be shaped by my own unique view of "the meaning of life". In my opinion, humans are born with pretty much the same basic programming as a wolf cub, and have to be additionally programmed by education and life experience to be anything more than a clawless pack predator. If you have the good fortune to have your semi-random experiences and your (hopefully) non-random education give you the ability to be self-programming, you can become an enlightened being, which optimizes your chances to be happy and prosperous.

Incidentally, I don't have any problem with porn per se, and I don't want my children to grow up with the sick (and typically American) mental attitude that sees nudity as more inherently objectionable than murder, but I strongly disapprove of violent porn. You might find it interesting to know that I monitor and restrict my children's access to TV far more aggressively than I restrict their Internet access.

HD?

[cjb110]

Trouble is with most of these neat small quiet systems is that they don't have the power to decode the High Def stuff...anyone got one that will?

Re:Mini-ITX? Not for the backend, IMHO

[Nerd4News]

"I may get a cheap NVidea card with TV out instead."

I've built several boxes recently (not all for MythTV) and am addicted to the NVidia FX 5200. They install and work flawlessly, have plenty of power for all but the most demanding games, have VGA, DVI & SVideo out, are fanless and only fifty bucks. I've used the Chaintec and MSI cards with no problems at all. Highly recommended.