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Vonage going IPO
Diashto writes "I just recieved voicemail on my Vonage phone saying that Vonage is going IPO, and that certain customers may be eligible to purchase common stock at IPO pricing. More information is is available on their IPO site."
To raise money for the new "SO you want to actually GET THROUGH to customers on our cablemodems" tariff which is upcoming.
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
about my long lost uncle who used to work for the oil companies in central Africa. He apparently left me $5 million and all I need to do is contact his Nigerian legal representation.
That this is a scam. I got the same e-mail a few days ago, and when I checked the site it redirected me to someone who was trying to sell 'www.vonageipo.com' for a little under $1,000.
Don't drag me into your petty squabbles.
- and
phone number. Regardless, I think this is better than most IPOs who only offer to the elite brokerage houses, and better than Google where it was anyone's game. Offer to those who have a history of support..
Man, do I hate that stupid Vonage TV commercial
.
I'm a Vonage customer since 2004 and I received the IPO e-mail a few days ago. If you're in the same boat I highly recommend reading their risk prospectus first. They will be posting losses for the foreseeable future.
Not a deal-breaker but just a heads up.
Four weeks, Twenty papers, that's two dollars
Aww, crap. I guess I should have checked sources before I opened my fat mouth. Again.
Just been to the real vonage.com, and it appears to be gen.
Don't drag me into your petty squabbles.
ZDNet blog on why the email/phone pitch is a wrong strategy: http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=1086
Wow - can't believe someone actually got so hooked by this they posted.
Go ahead and try to log in. Go ahead - I'll wait.
Can't can you? Well they'll be able to log into your vonage account now with that info won't they, dumbass?
I got an e-mail about this a couple days ago, thought "neat" until I realized vonage would probably have "ipo.vonage.com" or "vonage.com/ipo" instead of a whole new domain. Sure enough you go to their site and no mention of it.
Please send me $10,000 and I will send you the safe deposit box in Darfur where you can pick up my dethroned royal uncle's fortune. Also include your SS# and Mother's Maiden name for verification purposes.
Went through the whole process, as instructed on their web site, but step "4" is missing ...
== With enough Will Power, one could move mountains. With enough Brains, one would just leave them where they are ==
...a great distrubance in The Force.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
I have accounts with 2 VOIP providers on 2 different ISPs and still have reliability issues. When everything is working correctly it's *great*, but when there are problems it's very bad. I hope that the extra money from the IPO helps them improve reliability and call quality and not just "enhance shareholder value" (not that there's anything wrong with that!).
Always be polite.
Part of me can't help but wonder if this isn't a way to try and draw in customers, people who see it as a way of getting in on their IPO. I'm a current customer, and I'm considering putting a few ducats into it.
Hope this helps
Contact Questions
You may wish to speak with an independent financial or tax advisor before making any decision to purchase Vonage common stock. Neither Vonage nor any of the underwriters are recommending that you purchase Vonage common stock in this program, and they cannot advise you on whether or not to make such an investment.
Contact Us
Technical Customer Care
Phone: (866) 431- 9801
Hours: Open 7 days a week from 8:00 am EST to 8:00 pm EST
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Now people say most people already have broadband so I shouldnt count that in the cost but in that case why shouldnt I just use Skype which is free ? Charging a monthly fee basically for providing a handset is definitely a scam.
I see you were modded a troll, but I'll just assume you don't know what Vontage is. Skype is free. This applies only if you call another Skype user.
What you get for the fee is nationwide calling to regular telephones. Skype out and Skype in are not free. Please compare apples to apples. Vontage includes most of the extras you would get with a phone plan including caller ID, 3 way calling, etc.
The truth shall set you free!
Vonage is indeed doing an IPO and they announced a few days ago that US customers are eligible to buy in. However, the site linked in this story looks like a phishing scam.
So long, and thanks for all the Phish
I mean they advertise that you can have unlimited phone calls for 19.95 but never mention in their advertisements that you need to shell out another 40 dollars for cable internet.
First, What kind of **idiot** does not see the multiple notices that you must have a broadband connection available before signing up. Second, Skype is fine, but I would like to use an actual phone when I talk to people, not a headset on my computer. It's an ergonomics thing. I actualy do manage to step away from the screen once an a while. All the solutions I have seen for using an actual phone with skype are complicated and half assed. Most normal people do not want to deal with that level of complexity. Vonage just works, and is simple enough for even my mom to figure out. Besides, Skype is the same sort of scam. No one ever told me you have to have a computer turned on 24 hours a day! moron.
Dirty Pirate Hooker
If you don't feel like paying $20 for decent phone service you don't have to. Yes, many households have broadband connections now. Yes, many still retain their regular POTS lines through their phone company. Yes, certain people may only break even in phone bill comparisons from their POTS line + broadband as opposed to their Vonage line + broadband, but that isn't eveyone. When you start factoring in cheaper long distance calls or all the extras like voicemail, callerid, 3-way calling, and numerous other features included in the Vonage service at no additional costs then things start to look better. Bitch about it all you want, but their service provides more than just "a handset".
"0101100101? It's just jibberish. *looks in mirror, gasps* 1010011010@!? AHHHHHH!!"
should help to offset pain and suffering experienced when switching to their service, complete with noise, static, and horrible customer service. Perhaps DELL should offer short opportunities when they have bad experiences with customers...
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
I got this mail yesterday, and went and tried to register. However, apparently, permnent residency in USA is not sufficient for that. You need to be a citizen (need to a check a box confirming that "I am a US Citizen" before completing registration).
I've never come across this in any stock/share investing situations....
Here's a copy of the WHOIS data fro vonageipo.com. Certainly looks valid...
Registrant:
vonage holdings
23 Main Street
Holmdel, NJ 07733
US
Domain Name: VONAGEIPO.COM
Administrative Contact , Technical Contact :
vonage holdings
itadmin@vonage.com
23 Main Street
Holmdel, NJ 07733
US
Phone: 732-365-2603
Record expires on 25-Apr-2012
Record created on 20-Feb-2006
Database last updated on 08-May-2006
If there is anything more important than my ego around here, I want it caught and shot now.
They filed their S-1 a while back. The story is true, despite commenters' claims to the contrary.
Vonage S-1
beware the jabberwock, my son! the jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
You all seem to be down on Vonage. It has nothing to do with Losses. VOIP is HOT now hotter, possibly, than Google. You can make a ton of money here and you are all going to lose out. I'm all in.
I have been a Vonage customer for a while and got the IPO email. However, the requirement seems to be that one needs to be a US citizen (which I am not). I wonder what the reason for this requirement is. I tried calling their number, but that was just a "outsourced" prospectus company. I am willing to risk a few bucks but seems like I may not get a chance.
S
You're kidding right? Why don't you take that argument to iTunes who doesn't tell you in addition to the $0.99 a song they charge you have to shell out $40 a month for an ISP, and upwards into four figures for a computer. Couple hundred for an iPod, hell - make 'em pay the $38 a month it costs for the electricity to power your house, which God help them if the mortgage is anything like mine, they'll go broke. Idiot.
If you have cable/private T at houre house right now - it's $40 for that plus $60 a month for your average LEC carrier phone line. $100 total telcom bill. Vonage drops it to $60 a month. If you have DSL you're screwed because you need to phone line (unless you have OneLink or something).
It's not for everyone but it's much cheaper than Verizon's offering of $40 a month for VoIP over their DSL line. And the cable company's similarly priced VoIP offering.
I've known about this for months. In fact, so has slashdot. http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/09/001 5221
I wonder how many slashdotters know what "IPO" even means.
Not only are you a troll, you don't know what you're talking about. Skype does not equal Vonage.
Skype is free only for computer to computer calls.
Skype charges 1.7 Euro cents per minute (about 2 US cents) for calls to real phone numbers. And you have purchase that time in advance in blocks of 10 Euros.
If you want to get a real phone number you have to get SkypeIn, which is 30 Euros per year.
Skype can't be used for 911 at all, while Vonage is working on it and has gotten it together in many locales.
All Skype phones plug in only to a computer, not a cable modem.
Yes, Skype is a bargain and I use SkypeOut myself to call a friend in Australia but Vonage it ain't.
That having been said I think Sunrocket is a better deal. $199 a year, they give you the phone, and you don't have to keep your computer on 24/7. Also, you can hack it so you that you can use your home's existing phone wiring to plug in more phones.
Insert witty sig here.
I can't belive after 40+ comments already, nobody took the time to check the "real" Vonage web site. See press release here:p ?PR=2006_05_08_0
http://www.vonage.com/corporate/press_releases.ph
Basically #1. crap service, #2. end user loyal base is NOT there, #3. Cable company tax on the VoIP service - just look at T-Mobile's new flag for VoIP over data lines, er lack there of!, and #4. Goverment sanctions/tarrif taxes, deregulation, and its will to try and catch up to the 10 year hiatous from telcom regulation.
IPO is to late to mean anything, and they are simply trying to rectify to try and survive the above formentioned notes.
Friends don't let friends line-dance.
It also forces you to use one of three "limited purpose brokerages" - Smith Barney, UBS, or Deutsche Bank Alex.Brown.
Developers: We can use your help.
I just want to throw my TV out the window the next time I hear that woohoo crap.
Either way the answer is obvious: don't touch the stock.
Penny - plain text accounting
I'm going to open an IPO for my company. Anyone interested? :)
[%] Cingular Ringtones
For people NOT having a vonage account and who never used vonage, this makes no sense, and they should probably be wary of phishing scam.
However, for people like myself using vonage for 2+ years now, it immediately makes sense. I registered and am now waiting for the time when I can buy my shiny new stock certificates.
Considering that the email NEVER went to the people who DO NOT use vonage, well... the aluminum foil is just seeping into your crania right about now and polluting your otherwise smoothly functioning thought process.
Newsfollow.com
How often do average blokes such as ourselves get a chance to get a crack at an IPO? Not very often to be sure, if ever. Most IPOs go through large investment houses that require you to be a customer and have more money than God deposited there to qualify for IPO shares. I think this is a good opportunity for us Vonage customers and am signed up and raring to get a hundred shares hopefully. At worst I'm out around $1600, but if Vonage doesn't screw things up, the upside could be the downpayment for a house. I'm in. I'll hopefully be "touching" some Vonage stock at ground floor prices. Eat your hearts out traditional landline losers! =]
Terrible karma and aiming lower, which in this environment of one-sided reason, is higher.
Not to mention that 99% of Grandmas and Moms still prefer to talk on their regular old land line phone.
I have Vonage, and have 'hacked' it to use my home's existing wiring.
The 'hack' consisted of disconnected the incoming phone line at the demarc and plugging the Vonage box into a phone jack in my house.
(parent modded a troll, but I think is just misguided)
Vonage and Skype are similar services with different pricing and marketing models.
Vonage is trying to compete directly with POTS for all calls, and prices on the assumption that you will be making lots of calls to non-Vonage phones. It offers convenience, a single telephone and number to deal with (with some nice options on that), and you don't have to worry about whether you're calling a Vonage or POTS phone-- it just acts like a phone. They don't provide the handset, just the router.
Skype offers similar service, but AFAIK you have to use your computer as the base station (rather than any old phone), and while in-network calls are free, you have to pay by the minute for out-of-network calls. If you want to use it like a regular phone you could very easily end up paying about the same for Skype as for Vonage, they just use a different hook to attract you, and they use some viral marketing to get people to sign up (It's free to call in-network).
Vonage has some nice features that made me pick them over one of the VOIP services offered by the phone company:
-it's no extra charge to US and Canada (and now parts of Europe)- ATT may have been offering that when I signed up for Vonage, but I had to dig around on the website and it wasn't unambiguously stated.
- I can get virtual phone numbers in area codes where I want people to be able to call me with a local call, and for less than the cost of LD service or an additional vonage account, I get two-way unlimited long distance dialing. Combine that with forwarding and it can be very handy and flexible.
You have an IPO when you go public. IPO stands for Initial Public Offering. You do go initial public offering. you have an initial public offering
If any actual vonage customers replied, they'd have said that on May 9, a voicemail had been sent from "system" (internal to vonage) that confirmed the legitimacy of the announcement.
Could you !!!FRIST P0ST!!! morons be bothered to check on anything in TFA?
From whois:
Registrant:
vonage holdings
23 Main Street
Holmdel, NJ 07733
US
Domain Name: VONAGEIPO.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
vonage holdings itadmin@vonage.com
23 Main Street
Holmdel, NJ 07733
US
732-365-2603
Record expires on 25-Apr-2012.
Record created on 20-Feb-2006.
Database last updated on 10-May-2006 10:53:41 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
DNS1-NYC.VONAGE.NET 216.115.31.140
AUTH00.KEWR0.S.VONAGENETWORKS.NET 69.59.252.42
AUTH01.KEWR0.S.VONAGENETWORKS.NET 216.115.30.40
Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance. God, how I love it. - Gen. George Patton
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1272830/000 104746906006601/a2169686zs-1a.htm
The past background of our founder, Chairman and Chief Strategist, Jeffrey A. Citron, may adversely affect our ability to enter into business relationships and may have other adverse effects on our business.
Prior to joining Vonage, Mr. Citron was associated with Datek Securities Corporation and Datek Online Holdings Corp., including as an employee of, and consultant for, Datek Securities and, later, as one of the principal executive officers and largest stockholders of Datek Online. Datek Online, which was formed in early 1998 following a reorganization of the Datek business, was a large online brokerage firm. Datek Securities was a registered broker-dealer that engaged in a number of businesses, including proprietary trading and order execution services. During a portion of the time Mr. Citron was associated with Datek Securities, the SEC alleged that Datek Securities, Mr. Citron and other individuals participated in an extensive fraudulent scheme involving improper use of the Nasdaq Stock Market's Small Order Execution System, or SOES. Datek Securities (through its successor iCapital Markets LLC), Mr. Citron and other individuals entered into settlements with the SEC in 2002 and 2003, which resulted in extensive fines, bans from future association with securities brokers or dealers and enjoinments against future violations of certain U.S. securities laws. The NASD previously had imposed disciplinary action against Datek Securities, Mr. Citron and other individuals in connection with alleged violations of the rules and regulations regarding the SOES. These and other matters are discussed under "Information Concerning our Founder, Chairman and Chief Strategist."
There is a risk that some third parties will not do business with us, that some prospective investors will not purchase our securities or that some customers may be wary of signing up for service with us as a result of allegations against Mr. Citron and his past SEC and NASD settlements. We believe that some financial institutions and accounting firms have declined to enter into business relationships with us in the past, at least in part because of these matters. Other institutions and potential business associates may not be able to do business with us because of internal policies that restrict associations with individuals who have entered into SEC and NASD settlements. While we believe that these matters have not had a material impact on our business, they may have a greater impact on us when we become a public company, including by adversely affecting our ability to enter into commercial relationships with third parties that we need to effectively and competitively grow our business. Further, should Mr. Citron in the future be accused of, or be shown to have engaged in, additional improper or illegal activities, the impact of those accusations or the potential penalties from such activities could be exacerbated because of the matters discussed above. If any of these risks were to be realized, there could be a material adverse effect on our business or the market price of our common stock.
I got the offer from Vonage, too, and I'm debating it. I haven't done the research on it yet. However, it's a common misconception that companies that are experiencing explosive growth should be rolling in the cash. Rapid growth is actually quite expensive, because the company is having to dramatically increase its size in order to keep pace.
Secondly, debt is not necessarily a bad thing for businesses; in fact, it's a positive. I won't go into all the details, but suffice to say that it increases the earning power of the money supplied by the shareholders.
Third, debt is a much cheaper form of financing than equity offerings. It's only natural to expect Vonage to use as much debt as is available to them before they launch an IPO. Think of this, also -- with an IPO, the current Vonage stakeholders are giving up a lot of control over their company. So really, the fact that they are conducting an IPO should really raise more questions than the fact that they have a lot of debt.
The vonageipo.com address is owned by vonage. That is easy to find out. However, the reason it is not on the vonage.com site could be some SEC regulation about advertising an IPO and having it separate from the main company website. I'm not sure about this, mainly because I am not a stock guy, but I could see this being an issue.
Supplies!
Didn't vonage recently take on the former CEO of Tyco as their president? And didn't Tyco kinda have some 'issues' not too long ago?
I don't think I'll be investing in a company with that guy at the helm. (Not to mention a company that spams its customers' voicemail.)
The Prospectus and Risk Factors have some interesting tidbits:
1. Their CEO (and top officers) have 6 digit salaries with bonuses that are larger than the actual salary
2. In order to succeed (in their words) Vonage will need consumers to move away from traditional phone lines in favor of Vonage. [Without E911, this is be VERY difficult indeed - and the telcos are not likely to willingly give up their business by giving Vonage access to their E911 systems...even if the FCC says they have to.]
3. In order to succeed (in their words) Vonage needs their competitors to *not* come up with products as good as or better than Vonage's own product. [While this seems intuitive, just think how long it will be - if digital phone takes off (#2 above) - before the cable companies offer equivalent or better offerings with guaranteed QoS for their digital phone service]
I also am not going to take this offer for two reasons:
1. I have to buy at least $100 shares which is more than I can afford at the moment, and
2. I think the price will go down after the first day or two.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Okay too many people here who have wasted money on Vonage and dont want to admit they have been made fools of. As for all the features 3 way calling , caller ID blah blah blah you get those with any decent cell phone provider. Me ? I personally dont have a landline and havnt had one for years. I do have Time Warner Broadband and combined with my T-Mobile family plan I find I have no need for a landline. For 60 dollar a month I get 500 minutes on the plan. Same rates for USA and Canada . Also ulimited nights and weekends. I have had morons tell me 500 minutes is not enough. Now unless you are unemployed or a telemarketer I couldnt imagine spending more than 500 minutes on the phone during daytime(nights and weekends are free remember) Who has the time??? Another set of people tell me I should have a landline so I can call 911 . My cell phone already provides e911 and even if it didnt Vonage is no better. So why the heck would I need Vonage. The only thing I dont get on my cell phone is affordable international service and for that Skype is way way cheaper than Vonage.
Vonage is a fad. Wont be around in 2 years.
**Life is too short to be serious**
If you think Vonage is going to be a big player long term in VOIP.. BUY
If you think Vonage is going to get buried by ATT, Skype, Verizon, Sprint, etc.. Don't buy
I'm thinking Vonage is not going to live up to expectations since you can now get similar things from the companies people know.
Also the POTS companies are waking up a little bit. My in-laws are FINALLY dropping dial up because Sprint is offering them unlimited domestic POTS and ADSL for $70 a month. About the same price as cable broadband + Vonage. Bottom line is that Vonage's previous competitive advnatage (Price) is less of a factor or no factor. And their service is inferior to POTS IMO.
Note. I'm a former Vonage subscriber now using a combination of cellular and Skype for voice. In my case the price of Vonage was too high and the service redundant YMMV
In Answer to your question:-The same kind of idiot who is the target market for Vonage i.e. Those who want to use a real phone instead of a headset plugged into a computer. Vonage is targetting the grandmas and grandpas and most of them dont even know what broadband is. It is definitely deceptive marketing. BTW I hope you have heard of cordless headsets and handsets for voip phones. Samsung even has a cellphone which can be used in dual mode for gsm/voip so you dont need a headset to use free VOIP
**Life is too short to be serious**
I went through with FireFox and had the same problem. Then I fired up IE and saw there was a "next" button that hadn't appeared before. The browser requirements were listed on one of the first pages, but I pretty much ignored them until I had a problem.
Most households also have cellphones and most of the services you mentioned are provided by cellphones anywyay or by a decent answeriing machine. The cheaper long distance calls are not competitive against nationwide cell plans anyway and for international calls SKYPE is way cheaper
**Life is too short to be serious**
Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all
--Method Man
I am a vonage employee. I can't discuss the IPO beyond whats been published (and to be honest I don't really know all that much more). However, the use of the Voicemail is not uncommon to send messages out. One of the towns in my area actually uses a voicemail/autodialer to let people know about problems, such as when a water main pipe burst etc. we use the voicemail and email, to insure that customer get the information. To many customer have filters on emails, don't get important information, and then complain. An extra voicemail? cry me a river. Did you get your ipo information? yes.
I agree both of them are similar. However I basically think the having to pay for phone service thing belongs in the same era as B and W TV and VCRs. In Austin almost everywhere I go I am able to pick up free wifi. Samsung has already released cell phones which can switch from GSM to WIFI on the fly when they find a network. A lot of cities are planning to roll out public WIFI so when I can use voip wireless from a cellphone for free (only cost is buying the handset) why should I pay for phone service? In the transition period while this rolls out and becomes commonplace I want use a service which is free most of the time and has no user lock in and Skype meets that criteria much better than Vonage.
**Life is too short to be serious**
Itunes is marketed to a net savvy target market. Vonage is marketed to the grandmas and grandpas who are more likely to be misled. Also I dont need broadband service to listen to Itunes music just to download and I can do that at a hundred different places(office library coffeeshop public wifi) besides my home. I am not a fan of landlines ; in fact I do very well with just my cellphone and Time Warner. So having ditched landlines going back to something like Vonage looks like a backward step. Now if Vonage was to provide VOIP over public WIFI and sell us the dual mode (GSM/VOIP) handsets at loss leader costs I would be willing to do business with them but pay for a landline??? You must be crazy :)
**Life is too short to be serious**
If your eligible, just thought I'd pass on a FYI before you sign up.
Minimum investment is 100 shares. Current estimated IPO price (may change at any time) $16-$18.
So unless you have $1800 you wouldn't mind never seeing again... I mean invest... - don't even bother signing up.
"We estimate that the net proceeds from our sale of 31,250,000 shares of our common stock in this offering will be approximately $493.7 million."
...and then there is this:
"We have incurred losses since our inception, and we expect to continue to incur losses in the future. For the period from our inception through March 31, 2006, our accumulated deficit was $467.4 million. Our quarterly net losses generally have increased each quarter from our inception through the quarter ended March 31, 2006, for which our net loss was $85.2 million."
So, after sucking in half a billion dollars, they expect to be $26M in the black, which given their burn rate, will last a maximum of 30 days before they're knee-deep in red again.
YIKES.
"16,904,494 shares of common stock issuable upon exercise of currently outstanding options as of March 31, 2006 with exercise prices ranging from $0.70 to $35.00 and having a weighted average exercise price of $7.89 per share;"
Sweeeeeet.
and then... this:
"...the SEC alleged that Datek Securities, Mr. Maschler, Mr. Citron [Founder, Chairman etc. etc. of Vonage] and certain other
individuals participated in an extensive fraudulent scheme involving improper use of the Nasdaq Stock
Market's Small Order Execution System, or SOES... Mr. Citron also agreed to accept
an SEC order that permanently bars him from association with any securities broker or dealer."
Yeah, baby...
So, owing to that:
"There is a risk that some third parties will not do business with us, that some prospective investors will not purchase our securities or that some customers may be wary of signing up for service with us as a result of the past SEC and NASD settlements and related allegations against Mr. Citron, as well as his past association with Mr. Maschler or Brennan. We believe that some financial institutions and accounting firms have declined to enter into business relationships with us in the past, at least in part because of these matters. Other institutions and potential business associates may not be able to do business with us because of internal policies that restrict associations with individuals who have entered into SEC and NASD settlements."
AWESOME.
- Free call from anywhere in the world to home/Vonage phones if you can get Internet access, for $6/month (softphone). 500 minutes anywhere else. I used this in Inda for a month, big savings. I also use it when I travel, there are still occasional places where I am charged roaming fees and I hate the surprise when I get my bill, even if I do charge it back to my company.
- Local phone numbers so your mother/father/daughter/son/etc can call without having a long distance charge. Or 800 numbers.
- For that matter, several phone numbers for one phone.
- Fax service. Some people, notably real estate agents and lawyers, still need fax because they need real signatures, not electronic ones.
- Several phones in the house. I have 4 phones, one in the living room, one in the kitchen, one in my bedroom, and one out by the pool. I don't have to carry my cell phone everywhere, especially around the pool. I don't mind accidentally dropping a $20 cordless in the pool as much as my cell.
- Kids
... a ladyfriend's daughter spends thousands of minutes a month talking to her friends in another state.
- Bad cell phone coverage at home
It's not for everyone, but for those that need certain features, it's a lot more economical, convienent, and easy to use than anything else. If I was single with parents that had money and decent cell phone coverage at home and never traveled, I wouldn't have it either. But for $30/month, it is saving me more money than it is costing me. A 60 min. call from India to home paid for my Vonage for 3 months.I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Some other folks question their motives as well:
? ref=foolwatch
http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2006/mft06050832.htm
I was initially pretty excited about this. In fact, I even posted in favor of Vonage above. However, ever actually *reading* the prospectus, this clearly ain't no GOOG. Yikes. Many a thanks to my fellow /.'s for forcing me to really think this one out.
I'm not saying I *won't* but the stock, mind you, only that it deserves more thought than IPO is teh w00t!! (guilty).
Of course, this entire ordeal had made me reconsider those commercials: "people do stupid things...woo woo, woo woo woo!"
(Excuse a two-faced bastard, but my sn *is* Zaphod after all.)
barack to the future?
They should have only left those messages on those Certain Customer's voicemails. Otherwise I'll wonder just how well this company is being run, and do I want to give them my money.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
1) After four months they totally FAILED to transfer over my old phone number. (Note, the fact that they prominently advertised this ability was why I choose them over skype.)
2) Part of the problem was that their email system did not work correctly. I never recieved emails informing me that a problem existed, which caused their system to automatically close the attempt, so I had to restart it up again. A manager told me that the email they send when there is a problem is different from their standard email system and they had several problems with it. Note, I DID receive other communication from them, (including my bill), so it is not like yahoo was declaring vonage email as spam.
3) Despite the fact that this happened repeately, they never CALLED me. At one point, they were the ONLY people in the entire world that knew my phone number, but because of company policy (the STUPIDEST reason I ever heard for screwing you customers) they only communicated by email, never called the clients - even when they KNEW their email system did not work.
The phone service they give works, but the company itself is all screwed up. They need a massive shake-up.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
The prospectus should be enough to convince all but the most adamant conspiracy theorists that this isn't a hoax.
... until it wasn't.
As for "scam", well, has it occurred to no one else that some scams are "legal"?
Everyone's talking about the financials, the financials, the financials.
What about the people, the people, the people? Specifically: Jeffrey A. Citron, Vonage's founder, chairman and chief strategist seems to have been a very naughty boy in a previous life.
( INFORMATION CONCERNING OUR FOUNDER, CHAIRMAN AND CHIEF STRATEGIST ) Hopefully, this bookmark will take you to the exact point in the lengthy document (just about all of which is "fine print") that details a younger Jeffrey's pattern of behavior.
I'll excerpt here:
"During a portion of the time that Mr. Citron was associated with Datek Securities, the SEC alleged that Datek Securities, Mr. Maschler, Mr. Citron and certain other individuals participated in an extensive fraudulent scheme involving improper use of the Nasdaq Stock Market's Small Order Execution System, or SOES."
"The SEC alleged that Mr. Citron and the other defendants accessed the SOES system to execute millions of unlawful proprietary trades, generating tens of millions of dollars in illegal profits."
"To settle the charges, Mr. Maschler, Mr. Citron and the other individuals paid $70 million in civil penalties and disgorgements of profits, of which Mr. Citron paid $22.5 million in civil penalties. These fines were among the largest fines ever collected by the SEC against individuals."
But, maybe there's not too much risk going forward, because:
"In addition, Mr. Citron was enjoined from future violations of certain provisions of the U.S. securities laws, including the antifraud provisions set forth in Section 17(a) of the Securities Act, Section 10(b) of the Exchange Act and Rule 10b-5 promulgated under the Exchange Act."
So, that means that he promised never to do it again, and we can take that to the bank, right?
Enron was all legal
I'm a very satisfied Vonage customer and would probably have chosen to invest, until I saw this information. Would you invest in Kenneth Lay's next venture?
I'm not sure yet what this means to me as a customer. At the very least, I'll be researching my exit strategy and appreciate the various references to Skype and other alternatives.
More information is is available on their IPO site.
nice job slashdot editors!
Now almost all of my family is switched over to Vonage and have broadband too for about the same price they were paying for dialup and carrier service.
:)
The only problem with them using Vonage has been when the cablemodem goes out and they've got to use their cellphone. The other issue is that they are used to calling Bellsouth and yelling at them and them politely saying they will have a tech look into it. Now their experience calling techsupport with Vonage has been far more technical and complicated for their comfort level. Now when they call techsupport (likely in India, not always polite to older frustrated americans), they don't have the patience to go through the remote diagnostics steps. Bellsouth has give them the expectation that any phone company can see and trace all of the problems remotely or that a service tech will be out on site in a few hours.
I ask them to call me now when their service is not working (which has only been a three times over the last 18 months) but they keep calling vonage and get frustrated with tech support. My expectation is that both the cablemodem service and vonage over cablemodem will be more reliable and dependable overtime. Until then I believe these issues can be managed like any other service; whether it's your cellphone dropping a call or power going out because of a storm.
Sometimes parents, technology, and change don't mix well.
Jonathan
This is my world and I am...
What's more, the company is ripe for a pump & dump. He has an immense interest in going public, getting the stock value up in the air, then selling out. Hell, he actually had a profit holding company named Treasure Solutions in Florida and an offshore trust.
Again, from the SEC filing,
"Jeffrey A. Citron, our principal stockholder, founder, Chairman and Chief Strategist, will own 48,427,617 shares of common stock, or 31% of our common stock."
More detail about the fraud he conducted.
Pay careful attention to the following quote. The guy is into illegal profiteering:
("NASD") rules restricted use of the SOES system to small retail customer orders and prohibited broker dealers from using SOES to trade for their own accounts. By fraudulent means, defendants Sheldon Maschler, Citron, McCarty, Erik Maschler, and Heartland used the SOES system to execute millions of proprietary trades, resulting in tens of millions of dollars in illegal profits. The great majority of these profits were paid to Sheldon Maschler and Citron, but other defendants profited as well. The fraudulent scheme was carefully planned and orchestrated, and was concealed from regulators through the use of sophisticated software, the creation of nominee accounts and fictitious books and records, and the filing of false reports with the Commission. Defendants Sheldon Maschler, Citron, McCarty, and Erik Maschler carried out the fraudulent scheme from 1993 to March 1998 while in control of Datek Securities. Defendants Sheldon Maschler, McCarty, and Erik Maschler carried out the scheme from April 1998 through June 2001 while in control of Heartland, which had purchased Datek Securities' day-trading business on March 30, 1998. Defendant Raft Investments, Inc. ("Raft") aided and abetted the SOES fraudulent scheme.
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
Congratulations that only 500 daytime minutes is enough for you. I spent 25 hours in 3 days last week on conference calls with clients troubleshooting problems. And that was just in one week. Thankfully I have Vonage and a nice speakerphone on my desk in my home office, I can just imagine trying to do all that with my cell phone (which has a horrible speakerphone, not very good reception, and would have required me plugging the phone in to charge). While YOU may be satisfied with a cell-only plan it would hardly work for me.
As for being "made a fool of", in what way? Vonage provides a service that has been rock-solid for me for two years in exchange for a MUCH lower rate than my local Telco would charge me. So why exactly am I a fool?
Seriously people what is it? Are you bitter all your precious Linux stocks tanked? Is Vonage not 'enough' of an underdog, like Apple, Linux, etc etc.? Bitter you don't qualify? There's a company that's asking for public investment to duke it out with the big telcos and you whine about it?!?! How long have I sat here and watched article after article on unfair telco practices, telcos unfairly edging out startups, telcos blocking VOIP/bittorrent/etc, telcos remerging into behemouth companies that can shift political influence in their favor on a whim. And now the moment of 'put up or shut up' and you all wimper about it being a tough battle. Go ahead. Search Slashdot for 'telcos'. I swear... I am now totally disappointed in /. Not to mention that the first hundred posts from technologically advanced community are about it being a scam without a bloody whois...
And they have already said the CEO is stepping down as a condition of the IPO, so no sketch at the top (at least no more than other companies).
Apparently they're charging roughly 35 to 40$ USD a month, and 40$ CDN a month for their "North America Unlimited" plans.
Currently, VOIP outgoing providers sell time for about a cent per minute in North America, or as high as 1.5-2.0 cents for an incoming number. My roomate and I have a 1-888# which comes in to the house for a few cents a minute, with outgoing numbers going through 3 different VOIP providers of varying cost (cheapest first, of course). I think it costs us a grand total of 8$/month-2 months depending on usage.
Basically, Vonage is making so much money because traditional POTS is a cash cow, and VOIP makes it ridiculously cheap since you don't even need to run fibre -- BYOC!
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
It will be very difficult for Vonage to come up on the top of VoIP providers. Competition, competition, and more competition... which is good for us and bad for them.
Instead of buying Vonage IPO I'd switch to www.sunrocket.com. $199 flat annual rate for two lines and all the freaking features you can think of.
Vonage is too greedy... WWW.SUNROCKET.COM is like "Google of VoIP".
my 2 cents
Leo
I use Vonage and I like their service a lot -- so I decided to register for the IPO. You might like to read their prospectus -- it has things in it that you don't often see in prospectuses (i?) of companies going public such as:
"On March 1, 2004, we dismissed Amper, Politziner & Mattia P.C., as our independent registered public accounting firm previously engaged as the principal accountant to audit our financial statements. We re-engaged Amper, Politziner & Mattia P.C. on June 30, 2004, and dismissed the firm again on April 21, 2005. Amper, Politziner & Mattia P.C.'s report on our financial statements for the year ended December 31, 2003 did not contain any adverse opinion or disclaimer of opinion and was not otherwise qualified or modified as to uncertainty, audit scope or accounting principles."
I.e. they've fired and rehired their original auditors several times.
And:
"During a portion of the time that Mr. Citron (Founder, Chairman, and Chief Strategist of Vonage) was associated with Datek Securities, the SEC alleged that Datek Securities, Mr. Maschler, Mr. Citron and certain other individuals participated in an extensive fraudulent scheme involving improper use of the Nasdaq Stock Market's Small Order Execution System, or SOES."
Yup, their top guy has been involved in securities fraud (or at least accused of it). And consider just how egregious this kind of thing has to be to actually result in someone getting in actual trouble. Note that Mr. Citron was only 18 at the time and may have naively been sucked into malpractice by his associates, but still... not something you often see in a prospectus.
And then there's:
"Assumed initial public offering price per share...$17.00
Net tangible book value per share as of March 31, 2006...$(319.30)"
The total offering is for something like 30,000,000 shares, or roughly 20% of the company. So they're expecting punters to shell out $500,000,000 for 20% of a company losing money hand over fist which has 1.6 million customers.
If you compare it to Verizon (market cap $95B) that's very cheap *per customer* and absolutely lousy in every other respect. The question is, will Vonage be able to gain customers and become profitable faster than existing telcos are able to transition to VoIP.
It seems like the assumption is that there's money to be made in being "a phone company" and that all Vonage has to do is get enough customers and then one day it will be able to start gouging them enough to make a profit. Seems like a losing bet to me, so the only other question is whether greedy investors will buy up your (fundamentally) worthless Vonage stock after the IPO?
I'd suggest that there's money in providing data transmission, and that all the things you do with the data at each end (e.g. serve it, receive it (e.g. in a browser or phone), send it (e.g. from a camera or phone) will turn into or already are low margin interoperable commodities (e.g. like cameras, browsers, web servers, and phones). The artificially inflated profits afforded certain monopolies will, at best, be temporary, and I just don't see Vonage turning profits in time to pay off, especially since they don't own any key infrastructure (cell phone towers...). Meanwhile, I will continue to use my Vonage service, subsidized by credulous investors.
We Took an ax to our pots line for our business a while ago. Cost diffence was huge. We need Cable internet for our business so that is a fixed expense with vonage SB Unlimited we get to call and fax everywhere in the US for nothing. Phone bill went from being about 350 a month to less than 120 with both vonage accounts providing 4 seperate lines. That is a significant diffrence over POTS and the Bells are waking up as their customer base leaves for cable/and Voip providers. Considering that the recent M&A activity in telco means no price benifit for consumers any voip play on stocks would be benificial. For me I'll go in on the Offering with the though it will loose value. If it pops over 60% within the first week i'll sell out and put my money in LVLT. The fact is vonages growth depends on their marketing. There is no better marketer than Cable companies so I don't think vonage is a long term play. Besides I would rather put my money in a backbone proivider than a client of that provider any day.
and I'll gladly opt-in once again. I was on the phone with Deutsche Bank during the VA IPO in order to execute my options. The lady told me that the execute price would be $30/share. She asked how many I wanted. We were given a max amount of 50 (?) shares, so I was going to say 50, but she said that they had increased the alotment to 90 (again, could have been more/less as my memory and the money is gone). I was going to turn down 90 and stick with 50 but she said that the stock was already at $300. So I excuted my 90 options at $30 a share, then executed a sale of all shares and walked away. Uncle Sam loved me that year. I'd totally do it again if there was as much hype as there was back in the day. Something is telling me to stay away from this one.
From this recent SEC filing by Vonage it looks like to be eligible to get shares at the IPO price it needs to be true that (among other things--this is not legal or financial advice, etc):
The customer opened an account directly with Vonage America on or prior to December 15, 2005. The customer must have opened an account with Vonage America and not through a third-party wholesaler.
The customer maintained the Vonage account in good standing through February 1, 2006.
So, running out and signing up for a Vonage account doesn't look like a way to get in on the IPO. That seems like a dumb idea. How many people would sign a 1-yr or 2-yr contract just to have a shot at getting shares at the IPO price. Seems like bad business to me (but possibly necessitated by all the SEC rules...)
Like Digital Freedoms? Then donate to EFF before they're gone.
I think this looks like a potential short opportunity, but it would be nice to be able to use derivatives to cover my ass. As you were probably reminded when you signed up for a brokerage account, there is the potential for unlimited loss with any short sale.
What determines when derivatives become available, if they become available at all?
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
From the IPO website:
Browser requirements:
Microsoft Internet Explorer version 5.5 or later
Windows Operating System (Windows 95, 98, Me, NT, 2000, XP).
Perhaps blurring the lines between stockholder and customer is their intention? If so, I hope it works out well.
No, I will not work for your startup
OK The made fool off comment was kind of out of line but I got a little pissed when my original comment got modded Troll. Now I did mention that if your work is phone related (I said telemarketer but I guess it will cover support and other phone based work) a cell phone is not enough. But for the vast majority of people working out of conventional offices you dont use your cellphone at work. Mostly people (by people I mean Slashdot readers ergo techies) work at a desk and have office phones, email or IM for work communication. So if you are spending a lot of time on the cell during the day your boss might have a problem with that. IT support people who have to actually move around for hardware installation might be an exception but in that case they generally have office provided cellphones. So for all practical purposes for the average techie a cell phone is good enough.
**Life is too short to be serious**
Paying for phone service won't disappear for a while. Eventually you'll just pay for a data connection and send what you want over it, but that's a few years out.
Austin is pretty small. There are still plenty of places in LA where you won't get free WiFi, and the phones that switch from GSM to WiFi on the fly probably need a couple generations before they behave well.
In the meantime, there are actually people who can't use a cell phone at home. Wasn't it only about a year ago that a cell company exec publicly opined that customers were pretty unreasonable in expecting their cell phones to work *in buildings*.
I live in a hole in the ground (actually an arroyo), and despite being a densely populated area, there's no cell service in the house or yard. It sometimes works up at the street. Sometimes. When the GSM/VOIP phone is working well I'll probably get one. There are also plenty of people who don't have high speed net access at home, or who travel to places where it's not very available and cell coverage is bad, or aren't served well by mobile phones for any number of reasons. Landlines still work very well, and if you interact frequently with people who depend on POTS (which I do), Vonage is a lot less hassle than Skype-- you don't impose any requirement on the other party if you use Vonage, where you do with Skype (or you pay for Skypeout/in). I can also just plug any old handset into my VOIP router and it works. Until the GSM/VOIP phones show themselves to be reliable and inexpensive I have a wireless phone in the house so I can wander around and talk on the phone without being tied to the computer or having to cobble something together.
I can easily spend much more than 500 minutes a month to Canada and am neither a telemarketer nor unemployed. Put on a headset and talk while you're doing other things. And given the time zone differences can't always do nights and weekends.
I can see from your other related posts that you've got a pretty limited view of requirements people might have for phones, but for some situations Vonage is more useful than a cell or Skype.
I suspect that in the long run Vonage (and possibly Skype as well) will either disappear or morph considerably, but for now it fills a niche pretty well.
vonage allows me unlimited calls free within the us, canada, uk and several other european nations at any time, day or night, for $25 a month using a regular handset. Compare that with long distance and international charges on your cell to a non-network phone, and tell me whether or not that is > $0. If it is, Vonage is cheaper.
:)
/me looks at the 3 prong radial plug suspiciously
Incidentally, I took my vonage router with me to Indonesia a few months ago. When I had > 30kb/s upstream it was spectacular - using the same phone number, for the same $$ as if I were sitting where I am right now. NO cell company will do that. Unfortunately, the 500kb/s dsl wasn't up to snuff during Jakarta business hours - 64kb/s upstream was its rating and I was lucky if I got 5kb/s up AND down during business hours
Also incidentally, there isn't any Vonage capable hardware for easy purchase over there. I found this out the hard way after plugging in at a hotel business office:
Office Admin: Sure, sir, feel free to plug right in
Me: Uh, this IS 110v right?
Office Admin: Sure, sir, it most definitely is!
Me:
Me: You are absolutely SURE this is 110v?
Office Admin: Sure, sir, it most definitely is 110 volts!
Me: Uh, ok. Its on your tab if it blows *grin*
Plug it in. Admire puff of smoke that simultaneously expands from both the ac adapter and the router itself.
Me: Uh, can I talk to the hotel manager on duty?
I contacted every retailer I could contact. I even phoned some of the distributors of network gear. NOONE had Vonage capable equipment in Indonesia or Singapore.
To be fair, the hotel agreed to reimburse me for the purchase of a new router and comp'd me connectivity and long distance for the short duration of my stay. They also allowed me to use their shipping account, then hand-delivered the router to my house in Jakarta in the middle of the night. Most definitely, the hotel's service was spectacular in rectifying an honest mistake on their part.
"In the end, there is simply no weapon more devastating than the truth, delivered in just the right way." - tnk1
Not Always the Company's fault. Some people have spyware on their PC and refuse to acknowledge it. Viruses and spyware can use up resources on the network, and yes one PC commected to the modem is a network on the internet. Try disconnecting the PC from the network and if your phone call is clear, then it your fault. Other people get a wireless router and plugg it in with out securing it. Treating it like an appliance. It is not your toaster oven, refrigerator, nor microwave. It is computer equipment. All computer equipment requires YOU to LERAN about it maintain it and manage it. If YOU choose NOT to do any of those it is your fault. IF 30 people are using your wireless router for internet you did not do the right thing. Too mant people buy these things and do not even learn what they actually do, Do you buy a car without looking at it's options? Do you sign legal documents without reading them? apparently many do. The number xfer process is called LNP, Local Number Portability, or transferring your number. As I have done this before, the LOA, Letter of Authorization does ask if you have DSL service and if so you can not xfer thre number because it will disconnect the internet service. When the LOA returns with and error that you can not xfer the number because of DSL, many people go back and answer no to that question. WHY would YOU do such a stupid thing. You have been told NO and you chose to do it any. Is not that the behavior of a child not an adult. READ the pages when you sign up! Sign up yourself and not let the CC agent do it for you, it is the same process and you won't mis-spell anything. To be an adult is to be responsible.