Slashdot Mirror


Stupid Engineering Mistakes

lee1 writes "Wired has bestowed on us a list of the ten worst engineering mistakes of all time. We have the St. Francis Dam designed by 'self-taught' engineer William Mulholland, which burst and wiped out several towns near LA; the Kansas City Hyatt walkway collapse; the DC-10, and more, but my favorite is the one I'd never heard of: a giant tank of molasses that ruptured in 1919 and sent 'waves of molasses up to 15 feet high' through Boston, killing 21."

110 of 592 comments (clear)

  1. one comment, one addition by yagu · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Kansas City Hyatt was a disaster, but it wasn't because of bad design, but actually, "Construction issues led to a subtle but flawed design change that doubled the load on the connection between the fourth floor walkway support beams and the rods carrying the weight of the second floor walkway. This new design could barely handle the dead load weight of the structure itself, much less the weight of the spectators standing on it". The original design would have been safe but what seemed an innocuous change completely changed the dynamics of load bearing, a result easily derived by any first year physics student.

    Also, while a "top ten" list is always subjective, I think it'd be instructive to at least include Galloping Gertie as honorable mention, another design which had been identified as flawed. This Tacoma Narrows suspension bridge began swaying wildly as it set up its own harmonic resonance in a typical Puget Sound winter wind storm and eventually ripped apart and collapsed into the Sound. Interestingly the original Galloping Gertie could and would have sustained the fatal winds by strategically placed holes in the beams.

    1. Re:one comment, one addition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "much less the weight of the spectators standing on it"."

      The History Channel had some coverage on their Modern Marvels series I think of this incident. Besides what you mentioned, the most damning was those inspectors did something like a 10 minute inspection...for the whole hotel, walkway inclusive.

      The inspectors didn't do their job. This is much less about blaming one person or body, but usually these disasters had a whole sequence of things ignored that in cumulative resulted in disaster.

      Case in point was the St. Francis damn--the issue had squat to do with a person who was self-taught. It had to do with the community, other engineers, excavators/construction--all had opportunities or should have had opportunities to correct or identify problems, but they were overlooked, ignored, politically side-barred.

    2. Re:one comment, one addition by mattkime · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >>what seemed an innocuous change completely changed the dynamics of load bearing.

      I studied _ART_ in college and I spotted the flaw a mile away.

      The specs called for two "C" shaped beams to hug a metal rod as so - ]|[

      They were assembled like this - [|]

      You have _much_ more strength when all vertical peices are touching, relying on the compression strength of the steel. They were assembled more like a rod going through a box. Now you have your force on horizonal portions of the beam. A little bit of bending and BAM! no more walkway.

      Like many engineering disaters, its not the plans that were wrong but the changes made to them. Personally, I found it amazing that the construction crew didn't see the flaw.

      Ok, I'm going back to making pretty pictures...

      --
      Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
    3. Re:one comment, one addition by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 4, Informative

      Forget the Hyatt - look at the Sampoong Department Store collapse. In Seoul in the summer of 1995 over 500 people were killed. No surprise - it was due to a combination of last minute changes (that the original construction firm refused to make) and a general abrogation of responsibility all around (building inspectors were bribed, etc).

    4. Re:one comment, one addition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That was not the critical flaw. The original design and the implementation used box beams. The implementation failed because the lower levels were attached to the top bridge, not directly to the rod as designed, thereby increasing the weight that pulled on the joint between the top bridge and the rod. The WP article explains it quite nicely and has pictures.

    5. Re:one comment, one addition by L-Train8 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "The original design would have been safe but what seemed an innocuous change completely changed the dynamics of load bearing"

      While the original design may have been safe in theory, it was unbuildable. The supporting rods would have needed to be threaded for their entire lower half (which wasn't in the original design) in order for the loadbearing nuts for the higher walkway to be put in place. And that threading would have been damaged to the point of uselessness when the top walkway was raised into place. The original design was flawed. The disastrous change was made to fix it.

      --

      Don't forget that Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.
    6. Re:one comment, one addition by thc69 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      False. In engineering there is no difference between the plans and the changes: they are both the plan. There are very well defined processes called "Engineering Changes" that must be adhered to, which include reviews of calculations...blah blah blah yakkety schmakkety
      False. In large-project construction reality, there is too much bullshit involved in going through the proper channels for seemingly minor changes. Making matters worse, architects and engineers often have an attitude or respect problem when working with contractors, causing apathy in contractors and workers. The result: Architects/engineers make even more unreasonable specifications in an attempt to tighten control, and contractors say "Fuck it" more and more often to bigger and bigger things.
      --
      Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
    7. Re:one comment, one addition by AaronPSU777 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "I studied _ART_ in college and I spotted the flaw a mile away."

      Yes it shows that you studied art and not engineering. We actually studied this failure in one of my classes. The poorly welded box beams probably contributed to the failure but the much larger flaw was changing the support from one in which the box beams would only be supporting the weight of one floor to one in which they would be supporting the weight of all the floors. As I recall a junior engineer approved the change without consulting with more experienced engineers. The construction crew is not at fault because they built the structure according to approved plans and field changes.

    8. Re:one comment, one addition by smclean · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Yeah, Mulholland took a lot of crap on the disaster but was ultimately (mostly) cleared by most historians, geologists and engineers I've heard. At the time, they lacked the knowledge and equipment to know of the true nature of the rock in San Francesquito canyon.

      Say what you will about the guy, but he came up from being a ditch digger to chief engineer of DWP, you don't see that kind of stuff anymore.

      I grew up very near the St. Francis dam disaster, we used to hang out on old giant slabs of concrete that were miles downstream from the former reservoir.

      --

      "'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."

    9. Re:one comment, one addition by Fortran+IV · · Score: 4, Interesting

      An incident I particularly remember involving building design was back in the early 80's, in Canada I believe. The architect designed a large circular building (a convention center or hotel, I disremember which) with a domed roof. Somebody later decided the edge of the domed roof was a great place for a jogging track, without studying the wind patterns the roof created. After the building was opened, with its unplanned addition, several people were blown off the track to their deaths.

      --
      I figure by 2030 or so my 6-digit UID will be something to brag about.
    10. Re:one comment, one addition by polymath69 · · Score: 2, Informative
      The specs called for two "C" shaped beams to hug a metal rod as so - ]|[

      They were assembled like this - [|]

      No; that was true of both the original and the assembled plans. What failed was (a) the original plan could not be put together as designed and (b) the suggested change seemed innocuous to the guy on-site.

      The plans were for one rod to carry the weight from the ceiling through to all the walkways, being threaded at each level and bolted on. Problem was, you can't fit a threaded rod through a straight hole. So it was changed to make it possible; only now rods weren't simply under tension, but I-beams were under torsion too. So they tore out.

      One error + another error = 144 dead and 200+ injured. But not the way you said.

      Source: Why Buildings Fall Down, pp. 224-229, Levi & Salvadori. If you don't have this book on your shelf, why don't you?

      --

      --
      I don't want to rule the world... I just want to be in charge of mayonnaise.
    11. Re:one comment, one addition by big+tex · · Score: 4, Informative

      I assume you're talking about the difference between back to back ( ][ ) channels vs. tip to tip ( [] ) channels.

      From a standard beam perspective, that is, under solely strong-axis bending, the two configurations have the same section modulus, and therefore strength. the tip-to-tip has a greater torsional constant, and is better at long, unsupported spans (greater resistance to lateral-torsional failure, where the beam buckles out sideways, then falls).

      So, why one over the other, structural concerns aside?
      Back to back makes it really easy to capture a rod between the channels. It's basically a wide-flange (I beam) with a split in the center to allow loading through the neutral axis. This is used this all the time for strongbacks in soil support systems, and form walers. (pic on page 2)
      If you're going tip-to-tip, you've recreated a tube structure the hard way, and you should have bought rectangular tube instead - no weld in the middle of the flange area where you joined the channels, cheaper, stronger (channels are commonly 36ksi, while tubes are 42 or 46ksi), and cleaner looking.

      Basically, there's not a lot of good reasons for tip-to-tip channels.

      --
      I think I need a new sig here.
    12. Re:one comment, one addition by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As I recall a junior engineer approved the change without consulting with more experienced engineers.

      How'd you like to be that guy.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    13. Re:one comment, one addition by AaronPSU777 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "In engineering there is no difference between the plans and the changes: they are both the plan."

      What? Field changes are not the same thing as plans. I'm not sure where you work but at my job if someone asks me for "the plans" and I hand them a folder of field changes I will probably hear some select four-letter words and be sent back to get the actual "plans". Now it's true both will be used in construction, but trying to use the two terms interchangeably is wrong and will only confuse people.

    14. Re:one comment, one addition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As both an engineer AND someone who does lots of contracting and construction, I'll agree that it happens. Not always, but you're right- architects usually are very egotistical jerks, we engineers can be narrow-minded, and we builders just want to get the thing built, and sometimes just have no clue about problems like the Hyatt. I would have never felt good about that construction detail (see the www.engineering.com pics linked elsewhere here.)

      I'll also add that most construction workers and contractors are more "street-wise", savvy people, and are more tuned into their perception of non-verbal communications. Frequently we engineers get them annoyed because we're simply completely absorbed in something and they (the contractors) think we're snobs, have bad attitudes, etc. (I get to observe it from both sides!)

      Also, people seem to HATE delays, regardless of the risk. Did we forget to mention the launch of the ill-fated Challenger, despite the launch-delay pleas of the engineers?

    15. Re:one comment, one addition by $rtbl_this · · Score: 4, Funny
      I assume you're talking about the difference between back to back ( ][ ) channels vs. tip to tip ( [] ) channels.

      We're having a civilised discussion here. There's no need to go around mooning people! :)

      That second one looks disturbingly like the goatse.cx guy.

      --
      "Are you being weird, or sarcastic?" said Emma. I said I didn't know because I get the two feelings mixed up.
    16. Re:one comment, one addition by AJWM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The design itself was flawed. Not structurally, but there was almost no way to actually build the thing as designed -- with a threaded section (for the support nut) in the middle of a 30(?) foot shaft. (Think about it -- for that to work, the threads have to be wider than the shaft.) Petroski discusses this (along with the rest of the disaster) in his book "To Engineer Is Human".

      If you're going to design something that's hard to make -- and thus tempt the builders to take shortcuts -- you'd better darn well spell out in detail exactly the steps to take to fabricate it.

      --
      -- Alastair
  2. This is filed under "humor?" by setirw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't consider disasters as consequences of poor engineering to be especially funny.

    --
    This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
    1. Re:This is filed under "humor?" by -Brodalco- · · Score: 5, Funny

      You don't think a 15 foot wave of syrup engulfing a town is funny? Check his pulse, I think he's dead!

      --
      I regret spilling a glass of ginger ale on an achritect!
    2. Re:This is filed under "humor?" by servognome · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's not funny to the 21 people who died.

      Don't worry, they won't read the article

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  3. Three Gorges Damn by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Interesting
    It's waiting to happen.

    Built on national pride, it's become the world's largest albatross.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Three Gorges Damn by pornking · · Score: 2, Informative
      So they would just get someone else to do it, and possibly throw you in prison for good measure. In 1975, 170,000 died as a result of a cascade of dam failures. The hydrologist who had recommended changes was sent away. When he was proven right, he was brought back, then sent away again (1961). He was brought back again after the disaster.

      http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Banqiao_Dam

      --
      pornking
  4. Common theme by Kesch · · Score: 5, Funny

    A common theme in half of these is that a small change was made at the last minute.

    Lesson of Life: Trust the engineers, they do stuff for a reason

    Of course the other half were just poor engineering

    Lesson of Life: Never trust the engineers

    --
    If this signature is witty enough, maybe somebody will like me.
    1. Re:Common theme by Wudbaer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, and they even had back then the culture "Don't blow the whistle to management that the project is doomed".

      I also visited the museum (quite impressive indeed) and there they told that they used to test ships for their stability by having a number of soldiers run from one side of the deck to the other in a coordinated fashion to see if the ship would start to sway. And sway it did, that strong that they had to stop the test to keep it from capsizing. But who wanted to tell the king that his wondership, the one he meant to dominate the Baltic Sea, was not even seaworthy for a pond ?

      So everyone kept silent, the ship went under having hardly cleared the harbour, and the best: Afterwards noone could be hold responsible: The master shipbuilder having designed the ship had died before the launch, his successor only inherited the design at a very late stage and couldn't make any substantial changes, and the King, well... you don't hold the King accountable ! :-)

  5. 15 feet high? by Ant+P. · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What on earth were they planning on doing with such a huge stockpile of molasses?!

    1. Re:15 feet high? by linvir · · Score: 2, Funny
      They were going to sell them really cheaply to Cuba, along with the deliberately crappy container. The story is that they'd been picking up chatter about a molasses enrichment project being undertaken by Castro's scientists.

      Unfortunately they miscalculated and blew their load prematurely.

    2. Re:15 feet high? by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Informative

      The alcoholic beverage made from molasses is rum.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  6. 15 foot high waves of molasses by dpreformer · · Score: 5, Funny

    21 people couldn't avoid the flow of molasses? This seems very strange seeing that molasses is the canonical viscous fluid - slow as molasses in January. 15 foot amplitude, gotta wonder at the wavelength crest to crest...

    1. Re:15 foot high waves of molasses by aGuyNamedJoe · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Slow as molasses in January" is particularly apt (and probably related) as the incident happened on January 15. It's not as slow as you might think -- 35 mph... according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Molasses_Disas ter

    2. Re:15 foot high waves of molasses by ckswift · · Score: 5, Informative
      Actually according to Wikipedia the molasses flowed at 35mph exerting a pressure of 200 kPa.
      At 529 Commercial Street, a huge molasses tank (50 ft (15 m) tall, 240 ft (70 m) around and containing as much as 2.5 million US gallons (9,500 m or 9,500,000 litres)) collapsed. The collapse unleashed an immense wave of molasses between 8 and 15 ft (2.5 to 4.5 m) high, moving at 35 mph (60 km/h) and exerting a pressure of 2 ton/ft (200 kPa). The molasses wave was of sufficient force to break the girders of the adjacent Boston Elevated Railway's Atlantic Avenue Elevated structure and lift a train off the tracks. Several nearby buildings were also destroyed, and several blocks were flooded to a depth of 2 to 3 feet. Twenty-one people were killed and 150 injured as the molasses crushed and asphyxiated many of the victims. Rescuers found it difficult to make their way through the syrup to help the victims.
    3. Re:15 foot high waves of molasses by krunk4ever · · Score: 3, Informative

      the conversions are quite hilarious in Wikipedia:

      A large molasses (treacle) tank burst and a wave of molasses ran through the streets at an estimated 35 MPH (56 km/h), killing twenty-one and injuring 150 others.

      The collapse unleashed an immense wave of molasses between 8 and 15 ft (2.5 to 4.5 m) high, moving at 35 mph (60 km/h) and exerting a pressure of 2 ton/ft (200 kPa).

      Google calculator shows:
      35 miles = 56.32704 kilometers

  7. Forgot the biggest one by litewoheat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They forgot the most important one, the one that's screwed the most people by far.

    Windows

    1. Re:Forgot the biggest one by BigT · · Score: 4, Funny

      Since when has any engineering gone into Windows?

      --
      Is it weird in here, or is it just me?
  8. No Asian disasters? by dorpus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Osaka built the world's first sports stadium with a movable roof, which malfunctioned shortly after inception, and the company that made it went bankrupt. The roof has been stuck for the past 5 years. Incidentally, the stadium was built on rubbery landfill, so whenever audiences jump up and down during rock concerts, it causes earthquakes in the neighborhood. Osaka also built a new airport on an artificial island that is sinking into the sea, so it may become the world's first underwater airport. Seoul has had various engineering disasters also, including a department store that collapsed and killed hundreds of wealthy housewives.

    1. Re:No Asian disasters? by S.O.B. · · Score: 3, Funny

      The Toronto Skydome beat them by 8 years.

      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
    2. Re:No Asian disasters? by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Toronto Skydome beat them by 8 years.

      And Montreal's Olympic Stadium by at least 5 more years. But the important point (as a former SkyDome employee) is that SkyDome was the first retractable roof stadium *which actually worked*.

      --
      Fire and Meat. Yummy.
    3. Re:No Asian disasters? by paeanblack · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Toronto Skydome beat them by 8 years.

      The Romans beat you by almost 2000 years. The Flavian Amphitheater had a retractable roof.

    4. Re:No Asian disasters? by S.O.B. · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not to be picky (OK, I'm being picky) but the "velarium" imployed in the Colosseum (aka Flavian Amphitheater) was not a roof but a type of awning. It did provide protection for all the spectators but only covered 2/3 of the Colosseum. If the roof of your house only covered 2/3 of the interior it wouldn't be a very good roof would it?

      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
  9. Great out of print book by winkydink · · Score: 4, Informative

    about engineering disasters, "To Engineer Is Humnan: The Role of Failure in Successful Design". It's worth picking up a copy from amazon/abebooks/etc...

    Amazon.com
    The moral of this book is that behind every great engineering success is a trail of often ignored (but frequently spectacular) engineering failures. Petroski covers many of the best known examples of well-intentioned but ultimately failed design in action -- the galloping Tacoma Narrows Bridge (which you've probably seen tossing cars willy-nilly in the famous black-and-white footage), the collapse of the Kansas City Hyatt Regency Hotel walkways -- and many lesser known but equally informative examples. The line of reasoning Petroski develops in this book were later formalized into his quasi-Darwinian model of technological evolution in The Evolution of Useful Things, but this book is arguably the more illuminating -- and defintely the more enjoyable -- of these two titles. Highly recommended.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  10. why isnt Lake Peigneur on this list by plasmacutter · · Score: 5, Interesting

    this disaster involved a couple morons on a drilling rig in a lake forgetting to carry the two, hitting a mineshaft, and draining the whole lake and part of the gulf of mexico into the mine, along with several ships, etc etc.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  11. Re:Digg Dupe by linvir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I used to complain about this too. Then I remembered that Digg and Slashdot exist in the same reality, so there's likely to be some convergence in the content.

  12. DC-10 Worst Engineering Disaster hardly... by PPGMD · · Score: 4, Informative
    The problems with the DC-10 are minor considering some of the issues other aircraft in the past, only two accidents can be pointed directly two engineering defects of the aircraft, the first is the Turkish Air 981 and United 232. Other then those two accidents the DC-10 has had a safety record that is about average for most airliners to date.

    And even those accidents the safety defects were quite minor, nothing major that one could claim that it was poorly engineered. Outward opening doors have been used on all aircraft, Douglas was the first one to make one as a baggage door for a production airliner, improper servicing lead to issues with the locks and finally two accidents, the final resulting in a bulkhead failing that sliced the control cables.

    United 232 was a result of a failure of imagination, no one imagined that there would be a failure that massive that would severe all there hydraulic lines, even though they weren't placed next to each other (just near each other as they would have be as they have to run to similar areas of the aircraft). The engineer that designed it probably reasoned, that any failure that would result in all three being severed would be large enough that the aircraft would be lost.

    1. Re:DC-10 Worst Engineering Disaster hardly... by Mafiew · · Score: 2, Informative

      The outward opening door of the DC-10 was identified as a problem early on. In order for the door to be secured properly, the person closing the door had to turn the lock for an unspecified amount of time or else it would not be properly sealed. If the door was not properly sealed a little panel would not seal. In the case of pressure loss thus revealing the problem when the airplane was pressurized. Unfortunately if somone forced the door closed the panel would seal despite the fact that the door was not properly sealed. Thus McDonnell Douglas was relying on ground crew to make a critical operation that if failed could bring down the plane. This was compounded due to the fact that the floor between the cabin and baggage compartment was not properly ventilated. In the case of pressure loss in the cargo compartment, the cabin would need to depressurize quickly or else the pressure differential would cause the floor to collapse. Mcdonell Douglas knew that the door had problems since it had actually blown out during an early pressure test. They also knew that there were issues with the floor ventilation since a European aviation agency (I forget which country) had expressed concerns over it.

      Lo and behold the door blows and the floor partially collapses. Fortunately only a couple of people get sucked out of the plane before the airplane bar lodged in the hole. You might think that they would fix the problem after this first incident but nope, Turkish Air 981 loses its door and the floor catastrophically collapses severing the control cables within it and the plane crashes killing everyone on board.

      As to the design of the hydraulic lines, well Lockheed got it right in the L-1011, they put locks on the lines so that in the case of loss of pressure the lines were sealed so control could still be maintained. The reason they did this is because all of the hydraulic lines in the L-1011 like the DC-10 pass right next to the tail engine. Why did Lockheed know they needed this? Because they knew that ENGINES WILL INEVITABLY FAIL and tear apart and the loss of a single engine should NOT bring down a plane. So Hmm, sending all of the unprotected hydraulic lines right by an engine which will most certainly fail on some flight is stupid. The worst part isn't the flaws in the DC-10, the worst part is the criminal negligence of McDonnell douglas to not fix problems they knew were there and to not acknowledge their responsibility for the disasters.

    2. Re:DC-10 Worst Engineering Disaster hardly... by darkmeridian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The engineer that designed it probably reasoned, that any failure that would result in all three being severed would be large enough that the aircraft would be lost."

      I guess that was a self-fulfilling prophesy, huh?

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    3. Re:DC-10 Worst Engineering Disaster hardly... by Phanatic1a · · Score: 2, Informative

      I read that Boeing ran all the hydraulic lines along the trailing edge of the wing rather than the leading edge

      Entirely possible, but that would have had nothing to do with the accident. It was the *tail* engine that threw a compressor disc, and severed the hydraulic lines where they ran through the tail.

      The less obvious lesson of that disaster is to have multiple ways to let the operator know what's going on. The pilot lost some sensors and instruments when the engine peeled off.

      I'm not sure what flight you're talking about. When you lose all hydraulic controls, you notice instantly. The engine didn't peel off, it essentially exploded. The only way they could steer the aircraft was by differential throttle inputs to the left and right engines. That anyone survived at all, let alone something like half the people on board, was purely because of the skill of the folks who were on the aircraft that day.

    4. Re:DC-10 Worst Engineering Disaster hardly... by AJWM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      An old Boeing manager once explained to me how some of Boeings design rules of thumb came about.

      During WW-II, when Boeing was building bombers, they did a thorough analysis of where the flak damage was on the bombers that made it back after a mission. Then they redesigned or beefed up the parts where there was no damage -- on the principle that aircraft that had taken flak in those places didn't make it back.

      They also did things like use four hydraulic lines (routed separately) where the DC-10 used three.

      --
      -- Alastair
  13. Lake Peigneur by HockeyPuck · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Peigneur/

    Basically, an oil rig, drilling in the middle of the lake, punctured a mineshaft below the lake (mining for salt). The end result was the entire lake draining into the mine below it. Fortunately, nobody was hurt.

    From: http://members.tripod.com/~earthdude1/texaco/texac o.html/

    The water of Lake Peigneur slowly started to turn, eventually forming a giant whirlpool. A large crater developed in the bottom of the lake. It was like someone pulled the stopper out of the bottom of a giant bathtub.

    The crater grew larger and larger (it would eventually reach sixty yards in diameter). The water went down the hole faster and faster. The lake had been connected by the Delcambre Canal to the Gulf of Mexico, some twelve miles away. The ever-emptying lake caused the canal to lower by 3.5 feet and to start flowing in reverse. A fifty foot waterfall (the highest ever to exist in the state) formed where the canal water emptied into the crater.

    The whirlpool easily sucked up the $5 million Texaco drilling platform, a second drilling rig that was nearby, a tugboat, eleven barges from the canal, a barge loading dock, seventy acres of Jefferson Island and its botanical gardens, parts of greenhouses, a house trailer, trucks, tractors, a parking lot, tons of mud, trees, and who knows what else. A natural gas fire broke out where the Texaco well was being drilled. Let's not forget the estimated 1.5 billion gallons of water that seemed to magically drain down the hole (does the Coriolis effect come into play here?). Of course, there was the great threat of environmental and economical catastrophe.

    1. Re:Lake Peigneur by GreggBz · · Score: 2

      That sounds like a larger version of what happened about a mile from my house in 1959, the Knox Mine Disaster
      Basically coal miners dug to close to the bottom of the Susquehanna river (ignoring engineering recommendations) and a hole punched through flooding miles of underground mines. The tried all kinds of things to plug it and even contracted a company to build a massive concrete slab, that did not work. What did work eventually was several large rail road box cars. To this day, we have mine subsidences where large Victorian houses, schools etc.. in Scranton sink into mine shafts.

    2. Re:Lake Peigneur by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Informative

      (does the Coriolis effect come into play here?)

      Not enough to matter.

      The dominant source of angular momentum in the water of a lake will be the currents from the entry to the exit channels, which will have some offset from dead-on toward each other and the center of the lake, along with the other currents (such as half-lake-sized eddies) they cause. The momentum from the earth's rotation will be orders of magnitude down.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    3. Re:Lake Peigneur by jamrock · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I saw this on a History Channel special on engineering disasters which included a couple of dam collapses. There were numerous interviews with witnesses, including fishermen who were caught on the lake and barely escaped with their lives. The voluminous news footage is breathtaking, to put it mildly. The lake did indeed empty like a colossal toilet, and the sight of boats and wreckage spiraling around is something to behold.

  14. Reminds me of a story... by burnttoy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In 1814 in in London town,
    a flood of beer came to drown.

    http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=121&highlig ht=&

    --
    Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
  15. Number 3, the Vasa by PCM2 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The description doesn't really do this one justice:
    Three hundred years before the Titanic, the Vasa was the biggest sailing vessel of its day. The overloaded ship ruled the seas for all of a mile before she took on water through her too-low gun ports and promptly capsized.
    "Overloaded" isn't really the right description. It makes you think the thing was full of too much cargo. That's not really it. If you look at the castle on the stern of the ship, it is literally covered with hundreds of carvings of heraldry, kings, gryphons, and all kinds of what-not. The thing must weigh tons, much of it in this kind of unnecessary adornment. Then, if you examine the hull, its dimensions and overall height, it seems plain that it just wasn't seaworthy. Pretty much one good strong gust of wind capsized it, and to look at it you can easily see why.

    I can't quite remember, but I seem to recall that the records are scanty on this point -- it may be that the designers of the ship just didn't have the expertise and understanding of buoyancy of later shipwrights, or it may be that there was some kind of kickbacks or other shenanigans that interfered with the building and compromised the design.

    When I say "if you look at the ship," though, I am being literal -- because you can. The really interesting thing about the Vasa is that it sank not far from Stockholm harbor, in waters that had a unique mineral consistency. Unlike other parts of the world, for whatever reason the waters in this area were particularly unfavorable to the shipworm. Normally a wooden ship like the Vasa would be eaten up. The Vasa, however, was merely covered with silt at the bottom of the bay, where it lay for hundreds of years.

    Eventually -- and again, memory fails me but I believe it was sometime around the 1970s -- the location of the Vasa was discovered and work began to bring it to the surface. Today the entire ship is on display in a museum in Stockholm. The museum building was actually built up around the ship itself. A lot of repair and preservation work had to be done, including plastination of the wood, but it is mostly intact except for the original painting. You can't go onboard, but you can walk around it and view the hull from all sides. It is literally the closest you'll ever get to a 17th century wood-hull sailing vessel -- about five meters away. They've also built a facsimile of the interior decks that you can walk through -- if walking is the word. (Let's just say they made people smaller in those days.)

    The museum has salvaged all kinds of other goodies from the ship as well, from cannon to tools to even the bodies of some of the original sailors, all of which are on display. If you get the chance you should check it out -- if you're at all into things nautical, it's a one-of-a-kind experience.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
    1. Re:Number 3, the Vasa by maggard · · Score: 3, Informative
      First off these ships had three functions:

      1. Impress the locals by being the biggest / baddest / most impressive thing they'd ever seen, and leave them not wanting to mess with Sweden!

      2. Host dignitaries & high-ranking hostages during negotiations, thus their VIP-level amenities.

      3. Actually fight (& win) battles.

      Now, back in the day good wood carvers were relatively cheap, so hiring a crew to gussy your ship up was, all things considered, pocket change. Think of it as the 1%-for-art stipulation that is built into many civic construction projects today. The result was your ship looked shu-weet, and so when it sailed into port everyone noticed, and talked, and generally got your nation some good press.

      By the way, that's still a big deal in navel circles, visiting ports and showing the flag. These vessels have to do something, keep in training, and so doing diplomatic/PR duty is as good as many other things. Part of that is looking the part - now we go for angular grey steel & exotic weaponry, back then it was "I can afford to pimp-out-my-ship" gilding.

      As to the decoration being heavy, the whole freakin' ship was "heavy", a layer of pretty painted bits was about negligible in effect.

      Finally, your considered expert opinion on historical wooden sailing ships aside, the hull was perfectly fine for it's needs. Yes most i^Hg^Hn^Ho^Hr^Ha^Hn^Ht^H unsophisticated folks look at these ships and wonder "however did they stay upright" but they did. Much of the misapprehension comes from not understanding the weight distribution on these craft, the rest comes from not respecting the skills of it's sailors.

      And, as has been doubtless pointed out several times already, the ship sank due to late-added lower gunports that were left open and effectively scuppered them.

      --
      I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
    2. Re:Number 3, the Vasa by Wudbaer · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think that besides the overload with woodworks another big design problem was that the king insisted on the ship carrying three rows of cannons. Two apparently was the standard back then, but the king wanted the most impressive, most bad-ass ship in the entire Baltic Sea, so it had to be three. "What do you mean "Nobody did this before" ? So you do now !" "Well, uhmm... ok Sire !". So they added the third row of cannons, and that apparently as an afterthought and not as part of the original design. Sea-worthyness tests (they let a number of soldiers run from one side of the ship to the other in a coordinated fashion to test the stability of the ship) already showed the ship to be fatally instable and top-heavy, but the king urged for the ship to get finished and noone wanted to tell him that it was not the least seaworthy. Well, he soon got to know anyway.

      But at least it got Stockholm a pretty impressing museum.

    3. Re:Number 3, the Vasa by criminy · · Score: 2, Informative

      My memory from visiting the Vasa Museum is that there were a number of changes (again, late ones) made by the King. The engineers presumably felt that they couldn't reject the changes, but I suspect they knew what the outcome would be.

      The original design had two rows of cannons. The King insisted on a third row, placing the new row of ports far closer to the waterline (and hence limiting the heel of the ship under sail).

      As a result of the additional weight above the waterline (from all the extra cannons), extra ballast was required below the waterline to prevent the entire ship from becoming top-heavy. This merely exacerbated the problem of the lower row of gun ports by raising the waterline.

      In the end a 5 knot breeze was sufficient to heel the ship enough so she began taking on water through the lower gun ports, with the expected result.

      Oh, and the waters of Stockholm harbour are brackish, with salinity levels below that favoured by woodworm. Hence the preservation.

    4. Re:Number 3, the Vasa by LarsWestergren · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can't quite remember, but I seem to recall that the records are scanty on this point -- it may be that the designers of the ship just didn't have the expertise and understanding of buoyancy of later shipwrights, or it may be that there was some kind of kickbacks or other shenanigans that interfered with the building and compromised the design.

      A major factor was that the king ordered another row of cannons added to the design to increase firepower and make it look more impressive. They did do stability tests by having sailors run en masse back and forth across the deck, but it started tipping so dangerously they had to stop. Even so the people in charge didn't dare to go against the kings wishes. And down it went...

      If you ever get to Stockholm, the Vasa museum is defenitely worth a visit.

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

    5. Re:Number 3, the Vasa by Phemur · · Score: 2, Informative
      I live about 4km away from the Vasa museum, and I do recommend it whole heartedly. It's an awesome sight.

      They have a full featured movie that explains how it sank, and how it was brought back up. How it sank was the really interesting part. It's something all programmers and engineers will relate to: last minute changes to the design.

      The king at the time (I think it was Gustav Vasa) decided he wanted the biggest ship in the world. And bigger meant more guns, so he asked for a second level of guns when the ship was already half built. That's a completely new deck of iron cannons on a gun that was designed for only one. Since it was a request from the king, nobody dared say no.

      So the second row of guns was added, pushing the boat far lower in the water than was originally planned. So far down that the water line was only a few feet over the lower gun ports. Worse, because the boat was already so low in the water, they couldn't add additional ballast (ballast is the weight at the bottom of a boat that keeps it pointing up). Ballast is critically important to sail ships, since it counters the rolling effect of the wind. So sure enough, the first gust of wind to hit the sails caused it to tip far enough that water came through the already too low gun ports, and sure enough, it capsized and sank.

      The reason it was kept in good condition is because of the silt, and also the salinity of the water. I don't remember if it's because it's too salty or not salty enough, but either way, woodworms don't like the salinity at that area, and so there aren't any there to eat the wood, so it kept really well.

      The thing that amazed me the most at the museum was the main sail. Sails were kept in boxes at the time, to help protect them. One of the main sails was still in it's box when the ship sank. When the ship was brought back up, the sail was discovered, laid out on a huge piece of glass, and it's now on display at the museum, in remarkably good shape.

      Phemur

  16. Tacoma Narrows & Lake Peigneur by jjeffries · · Score: 3, Interesting
    err... Tacoma Narrows Bridge?

    This one isn't quite on topic, but it keeps with the mood... Lake Peigneur: The Swirling Vortex of Doom

  17. Cypress Freeway (I-880) in Oakland by linguae · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When I think of engineering mistakes, the Cypress Freeway comes to mind. A double-decker freeway built on soil that isn't solid in an earthquake-prone area is a disaster waiting to happen.

    The former double-decker section of 880 has since been replaced with a new, single decker structure a bit to the west of the original alignment. The cost of that new, short freeway section was $1.13 billion dollars, more expensive than the costs of LA's Century Freeway (105), IIRC.

  18. Ten Worst of ALL TIME??? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the way things play out, I presume it really means the ten worst reported in the US in the last two centuries. It doesn't even mention the disaster in Japan a few years ago where an entire mega-mall collapsed because they forgot to increase the gague of the beams for the parking level after tweaking the design for the upper levels. I'm pretty sure there were probably some major engineering disasters in building early pyramids and ziggarauts too, not to mention the Roman buildings that didn't survive through the ages.

    1. Re:Ten Worst of ALL TIME??? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 2, Funny

      of course, Microsoft Windows.

      No, these are Engineering disasters. I'm not sure what Windows is, but it ain't engineering.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  19. What was the basis for judgement on those?? by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree with a poster above that this shouldn't be listed under "funny" as all of those mistakes cost well over 1,000 people their lives, if I remember the article correctly. But it seemed to focus on the fact that people's lives were lost in just about all of those. I would have placed a number of other engineering mistakes in that list just because of the nature of the mistake.

    For example, the bridge (the name of which I can't remember) from the early part of the 20th century that bent and twisted under high wind until it finally just fell apart. Loss of life? I don't believe so, but it was a spectacular destruction.

    The Johnstown Flood, perhaps? A lot of people were killed in that flood, and it was caused by engineering of a sort. The dam itself seemed to be stable until a lot of critical components, such as iron rods, were replaced with such highly stable components as dirt and manure, at least according to various web sites and documentaries. Sure, that wasn't a fault of the original design, but the "remodeling" is most likely a very important factor that resulted in the deaths of over 2,200 people.

    I found it particularly interesting that the article mentioned how something happened 200 years before Titanic then failed to mention the Titanic itself. Based on the documentaries I've seen, the bolts that were used to hold the steel plates together were cheaply made and severely weakened under the frigid water of the north Atlantic. That was an engineering/design flaw from the beginning.

    New Orleans. Oh, yeah! Let's design and build a city with an ocean on one side and a lake on the other and - here's the clincher - we'll make it below sea level! Yeah, baby! Party on! Enough said.

    Seriously. I don't know what criteria this person used for the "worst" engineering mistakes, but it's clear to me at least that he really doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    1. Re:What was the basis for judgement on those?? by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "New Orleans. Oh, yeah! Let's design and build a city with an ocean on one side and a lake on the other and - here's the clincher - we'll make it below sea level! Yeah, baby! Party on! Enough said. "

      not an engineering mistake. The plitical issues surrinding the levees manifiested themselves as an enginer mistake.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:What was the basis for judgement on those?? by jc42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One of the bits of real humor in this disaster was when several of our favorite fundamentalist pundits tried to say that this was God punishing New Orleans for its sins. They shut up fast when people started asking publicly why God didn't punish the French Quarter (which is above sea level and wasn't flooded).

      In fact, the French Quarter was the first part of NO that was back up and running its old, sinful businesses. But we're in another hurricane season now; maybe God will take a second shot ...

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  20. Mullholland wasn't always wrong by techno-vampire · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not only did Mullholland build that dam that collapsed, he also built the Los Angeles Aquaduct, that's still bringing water down from the North to supply the city's needs. He's also remembered by Mullholland Drive, along the Santa Monica Mountains. I don't know if he built it, but I do know it was named after him.

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
    1. Re:Mullholland wasn't always wrong by Maximilio · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Frank Black wrote not one but two songs about Mulholland: "Ole Mulholland," and "The St. Francis Dam Disaster." Apparently he made quite an impression on the guy. I didn't connect these two until I saw this article, by the way.

    2. Re:Mullholland wasn't always wrong by obender · · Score: 2, Funny
      Not only did Mullholland build that dam that collapsed, he also built the Los Angeles Aquaduct

      Old Man: "Lad, look out there to the field. Do ya see that fence? Look how well it's built. I built that fence stone by stone with me own two hands. Piled it for months. But do they call me McGregor-the-Fence-Builder? Nooo.."

      Then the old man gestured at the bar.

      "Look here at the bar. Do ya see how smooth and just it is? I planed that surface down by me own achin' back. I carved that wood with me own hard labour, for eight days. But do they call me McGregor-the-Bar-builder? Nooo..."

      Then the old man points out the window.

      "Eh, Laddy, look out to sea. Do ya see that pier that sretches out as far as the eye can see? I built that pier with the sweat off me back. I nailed it board by board. But do they call me McGregor-the-Pier-Builder? Nooo..."

      Then the old man looks around nervously, trying to make sure no one is paying attention.

      "But ya fuck one goat . . . "

  21. Bahhhh.. They forgot the Disney Concert Hall by technoextreme · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeesh... Someone all ready posted a better and more detailed description of the lake. Anyway here is another engineering disaster. The Disney Opera House in California. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Concert_Hall It was a really nice building. Very ornate and very shiny and cool looking. The problem is that they designed and built Archimedes Death Ray. Certain parts of the building were curved that they were cooking the inside of people's apartments, melting trafic cones, blinding drivers, and setting stuff on fire. The solution was just to sandblast the offending objects but yeesh.

    --
    Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
  22. Feats of the past by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >astounding feats of engineering accomplished before computers came along. Now errors seem rampant

    Errors were always rampant. Railway bridges used to collapse routinely. Frank Lloyd Wright built buildings that couldn't even keep the rain off, a feat pre-industrial peasants had been managing for thousands of years.

    Only the best work has survived until now.

    1. Re:Feats of the past by surprise_audit · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Reminds me of a story I heard about one of Isambard Kingdom Brunel's bridges, somewhere in the southwest of England. Apparently, after some decades (hundreds?) of years of use it was deemed to be unstable, so the Royal Engineers were brought in to demolish it - I guess they have to practise on real structures occasionally. Anyway, they surveyed the bridge, loaded it up with explosives and hit the switch. When the dust cleared, the individual stones of the bridge had settled back into place and the whole structure was still solid enough to drive a 10-ton truck over...

      I don't recall what the Engineers did about it. They probably just repointed the mortar, slapped on a fresh coat of paint and sneaked back to the barracks.

  23. Re:Killed by molasses by linvir · · Score: 5, Funny

    News: Holy Shit! The town molasses has escaped! You have three hours to save yourselves!
    Dude: Whoa, sounds pretty bad! I'd better...
    News: Next on Six, that Paris Hilton sex tape in full! One hour later... Dude: Whoa, that ruled. I need a beer!
    Dude wastes another hour or so drinking and watching pr0n.
    Dude forgets about the molasses and goes to bed.
    Molasses: I am nearing Dude's house.
    Dude: I am now in bed sleeping, unaware of the impending danger.
    The molasses eats Dude alive
    Dude: What the fuck? Oh shit, the molasses! I totally forgot!
    Molasses: And now there is no escape for you!

  24. Re:Digg Dupe by linvir · · Score: 4, Funny

    LOL TRUE!!

  25. I have a few... by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Dodge caravan - Engineers were on serious drugs designing that transmission and engine bay.

    Pontiac Grand AM 1997-2006 - I want to personally kill the engineer that designed that engine cooling system.

    All Delco car radio products 1990-2006 - Those engineers need to be beaten hard with the product they made. Any car that can lose functionality or even not run when you remove the factory radio was designed by a retarted engineer.

    I can go on for days just on recent automotive designs and building techniques. Automotive engineers are the most hated on the planet lately because of the incredibly stupid designs they continue to come up with.

    And they have done it for decades, Oldmosbile Quad 4 engine, instead of making the engine balanced we put in a harmonic balancer that runs at 4X the engine RPM's.. but not use a system that can handle the incredible RPM's or make sure it stays oiled.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  26. Therac-25 by MBCook · · Score: 3, Interesting
    How can you run a list like this without the Therac-25 machine listed? That was a SERIOUS disaster. Very, VERY scary incident.

    And really, the humor section? I know being killed by a flood of molasses is novel, how is having a walkway full of people falling on your head funny?

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  27. 4. Northeastern US power grid, 1965 by Cordath · · Score: 2, Informative

    "4. Northeastern US power grid, 1965
    A single protective relay tripped in Ontario, overloading nearby circuits and causing a cascade of outages that left 30 million homes without power for up to 13 hours. A fragile, redundancy-free design ensured that it would happen eventually. After decades of repairs and upgrades, it happened again in 2003."

    Although this point implies that the 2003 outage originated in Ontario as well, a joint U.S. and Canadian investigation found that it originated in Ohio due to several failures of FirstEnergy corporation, among them the failure to keep trees near high voltage power lines adequately trimmed! When the Eastlake generating plant in Ohio went offline during a period of high demand, other high voltage power lines in the area experienced increased demand to pick up the slack. The increased current across these HV lines caused them to sag and short-out when they came into contact with said trees. HV lines heat up and sag as current increases, and this is accounted for in both their design and in guidelines for keeping trees near HV power lines trimmed, which were apparently not adhered to by FirstEnergy.

    This wasn't the only thing that FirstEnergy did wrong however. In total, they were found to be in violation of *seven* NERC standards. Although more reliability and redundancy could be built into the North American power grid, blaming the 2003 outage on poor engineering is not accurate. It was FirstEnergy's failure to adhere to standards that precipitated the cascade failure. As such, it would be more accurate to blame greedy corporate management that was too cheap to shell out adequate funds for operation.

    For more on this, check out the report found here:

    https://reports.energy.gov/BlackoutFinal-Web.pdf

    1. Re:4. Northeastern US power grid, 1965 by Ekarderif · · Score: 4, Funny

      More electrons run through the current. Since the wire is the same size, they get clogged and collect together. The extra mass causes the wire to sag a bit.

    2. Re:4. Northeastern US power grid, 1965 by AJWM · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A single protective relay tripped in Ontario,

      And it was my fault. Or perhaps my friend's. We'd gone over to his house after school (this was in Toronto) to watch TV. I turned on the TV and he went into the kitchen to plug in the kettle for some tea. While he was out there the image on the TV started to shrink and flicker as the power went flaky, so I called out to him "unplug the kettle, you're blowing a fuse".

      If I'd only said that a few moments sooner...

      --
      -- Alastair
  28. Tacoma Narrows by Reverberant · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...but I thought "Bridges Are Easy"....

  29. Re: "distraught" is for the History books by mpapet · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Because the guy honestly didn't care.

    He (him) fsck'd huge parts of the west out of their water rights to get an ROI out of his investments in L.A.

    The damn breaking was terrible PR. I believe it only troubled him because of the fear he would be found liable for the damage.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Water_Wars

    You can still find *giant* chunks of concrete in the flood basin in the east end of the san fernando valley. I was honestly surprised to find them there.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  30. On the DC-10 by xIcemanx · · Score: 2, Informative



    It's very unfair to group the DC-10 with these disasters. McDonnell Douglas was actually very little at fault for the 3-4 accidents that unfortunately occurred right near each other. The most spectacular crash of the American Airlines flight was actually caused by an AA maintenance crew being dumb and cracking the pylon holding the engine. But thanks to the American sensationalistically hostile TV media, the only thing that everyone saw was the engine falling off the wing, which led everyone to assume it was the DC-10's fault, and led to huge cancellations on flights on the actually safe DC-10. It was a good airplane destroyed by bad press and bad luck.

    (If any of you have read Airframe by Michael Crichton, you'll know what I'm talking about...from the NYT review of that very good book:

    "And, Casey explains, when something goes wrong, a media industry that has grown hostile and shallow with the ascendancy of television always jumps to the wrong conclusion. Why, just look at what happened to the DC-10, ''a good aircraft . . . destroyed by bad press,'' because the crash of an American Airlines flight from Chicago to Los Angeles in May 1979 was misreported and misunderstood. ")

  31. I call Bullshit by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The molasses flood was not an engineering mistake. The basic design of the structure was ok, the disaster is believed to be most likely to been have caused by shoddy contruction techniques and/or overfilling plus pressure buildup due to fermentation of the molasses in the tank.

  32. Re:Front-Load Washers by mikefe · · Score: 2, Funny

    "I believe in the genocide of front-load washing machine believers."

    Dude, this is slashdot, why are you doing laundry?

    --
    There: Something at a specific location.
    Their: Owned by someone.
    Please make sure your english compiles.
  33. those poor moles by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 4, Funny

    How may gave their asses to fill that giant tank?

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  34. PEPCON rock fuel factory by DragonHawk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No discussion of engineering disasters is complete without mention of PEPCON. First, build a factory 10 miles from Las Vegas. Use it to manufacture ammonium perchlorate -- a component of rocket fuel. Store the stuff in aluminum containers. BTW, aluminum is the other component for the rocket fuel. Then start welding nearby. Oh, and make sure you put the factory on top of a gas main.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEPCON_disaster

    There's some great footage of it here:

    http://www.apechild.com/videos/pepcon.mov

    You'll never see a better demonstration of speed-of-sound vs speed-of-light. You see massive explosions and shockwaves (taking out trees and cars) several seconds before you hear them.

    --

    dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
    1. Re:PEPCON rock fuel factory by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 3, Informative
      I can understand not reading articles other people post due to laziness. But you have taken it to a whole new level by not reading an article you are telling us about and embellishing extra details to make the mistakes seem worse than they were. Congratulations. :)
      The storage drums were plastic.

      And wow, one of the two who died was in a wheelchair. Those folks must have some serious survivor's guilt for not helping that guy when they all ran and drove away.

  35. R-101 versus R-100 by Fortran+IV · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The truly sad aspect of the R-101 disaster is not that it crashed, but that the crash utterly killed any chance that the R-101's sister airship, the R-100, would gain public acceptance.

    The two ships were built simultaneously, to the same set of government design specifications. The R-101 was designed by government engineers with an effectively unlimited budget, and no penalties for failing to meet specifications. Because a government agency was building it, the press were treated to frequent and highly colored bulletins about the R-101.

    The R-100 was designed by a private firm, under a strict budget, with limited access to design information about the R-101. It was built with much less publicity and launched with no fanfare at all.

    The R-100 made a successful trans-Atlantic test flight, was several knots faster than the specification called for, was highly maneuverable, and had a considerable payload capacity. It performed almost flawlessly, and was fairly economical to operate. (The Wikipedia article makes a bit much of the R-100's problems, such as the tail cone collapse; the engineers decided that the tail cone was unnecessary.)

    The R-101 was grossly oversized and overweight, poorly stressed, and had been lengthened by some yards at the eleventh hour. Because of pressure to outperform the R-100, it was sent on an intercontinental flight before its local flight tests (which would probably have revealed its weaknesses) were completed. When it crashed, it took with it any chance that the R-100 would be followed up, even though the R-100 was a nearly unqualified success (for a prototype, anyway).

    Dig up a copy of Nevil Shute's Slide Rule for an entertaining and sometimes harrowing account of the two rival airships.

    --
    I figure by 2030 or so my 6-digit UID will be something to brag about.
  36. Re:Killed by molasses by thc69 · · Score: 2, Funny
    ...need to have big pictures teeth with crosby molasses on them...
    Crosby? Which one are you talking about? I'm not sure at all what you mean...

    I could keep going, but I'm getting really tired of it.
    --
    Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
  37. Obligatory Microsoft Engineering Failure by gbobeck · · Score: 2, Funny

    Any list of engineering failures is incomplete without Windows ME.

    --
    Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. Omnes castelli tuus nostri sunt. Ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta.
  38. Seems somewhat arbitrary to me by CodeMasterPhilzar · · Score: 2, Informative
    After all, you could make an argument for several others:

    The deHaviland Comet. Stress concentrations and metal fatigue resulted in the loss of several aircraft.

    HMS Titanic. Inadequate watertight compartments (IMHO the bulkheads should've extended higher, and/or been closer together). Also too few lifeboats to accomodate everyone on board.

    Hubble telescope. Nno loss of life, just extremely bad press on a very expensive engineering program. 100% avoidable too.

    Denver airport luggage system. No loss of life, unless one of the engineers jumped. The automated system was very expensive, late, and never worked correctly. To the point that the airport is using a normal manual labor system and has given up on ever using the automated system. (but is still paying for it)

    Chernobyl (sp?) and/or Three Mile Island. Safety equipment, procedures, and training obviously not up to the task.

    Any one of several early Soviet nuclear submarine designs. That more of them didn't sink or irradate their crews (more) is a credit to the bravery and dedication of their crews.

    The main thing to look for in a "worst engineering mistakes" list would be something that not only seems obviously a bad idea in retrospect... But that should've been recognized as a really bad idea, even with the technology and education levels available at the time.

    --
    --- Just another Code-Monkey
  39. I can't beleive that... by cmacb · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... the Windows Registry isn't on that list.

    I guess that would be on the SOFTWARE engineering list.

  40. Truth on front-loaders by daemonenwind · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, let's confront your misconceptions:

    1. It's actually your great-grandmother's suffering you're reliving. You see, the way to wash the sweat and human oils out of clothes was to take the big pot (like a witch's cauldron) and make Clothes Soup over an open fire. So good job on advancing yourself to 1890.

    2. If you went back to freshman chemistry, you'd learn that water and oil do not mix. Which means, if you want to get the human soils out of your underwear, and the human sweat/grease out of your clothes, you're going to have to use soap. Water won't do it. Or, if you don't believe me, just stop buying laundry detergent. You do use it, right, hypocrite? FYI: The water is the medium for the soap, and removed soils. It all has to go somewhere - the soap alone won't carry it.

    3a. A liberal arts guy, huh? 'Nuff said.

    3b. Just for general info, did you ever see what your top-loader does with your Clothes Soup? The paddle in the middle spins a turn clockwise, then a turn counter-clockwise....and so forth. It also has to spin the drum for the spin cycle (you know, the only major moving part on a front-loader). So you have 2 major moving parts, one of which has to support counter-movement. So you're actually on the WRONG END OF THE SIMPLICITY ARGUMENT. Duh.

    You do have the efficienty argument down, though. Front-loaders use 40% less water and much less soap, along with being much easier on the actual clothes because there is no paddle-like implement used to pummel your clothes. Gravity and water do that for the front-loader, off that one mono-dirctional moving part.

    4. So...you do change the water in your washing machine from time to time, right?

    How do you get it out?

    Could it be...........a cute little rubber seal? At the bottom of the drum? Under way more standing water pressure than a front-loader sees?

    PS: Check into how long Mankind has been making watertight seals. I bet you'll be suprised. We've had time to actually get kinda good at it.

    How the hell did your particular brand of idiocy get modded up?

  41. Re:Front-Load Washers by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 3, Funny
    I don't wish to disturb the gravity of this situation, but *I* enjoy clubbing cute little rubber seals... what? ..oh, THAT kind of seals. Never mind.

    P.S. I understand it's harder to have an orgasm using a horizontal-load washer than a top-loader. Not that this is relevant to the environment or anything. But I like noting it.

  42. Correct... by Gadgetfreak · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have a MechEng/ Materials dual degree, and one of my later courses was actually a "Metal Failures" course, dedicated to this kind of stuff. Most of it was more complicated. My professor was actually a retired PhD who worked on investigative teams that evaluated accidents like these, and acted as the 'expert witness' for technical information in many cour cases.

    We studied this case, as well as many on the list above, in detail. In particular, the box beams in question ran horizontally to support the walkway, while the vertical rod was the support for the end of the box beams. The beams could have been made better, but they were good enough for their design loads.

    The problem was that the original design called for one continuous vertical rod, with several levels of walkway hanging from it at different heights. However, due to construction issues, the installation was changed (for the worse) so that separate vertical rods were used. This unfortunately got written approval, and shouldn't have. Instead of the successive loads being applied to the rod, the box beam was then holding the weight of all the floors below it, which it was not designed to do.

    Imagine one rope hanging from a ceiling, with 3 people hanging at various heights on the rope. The rope can hold the total weight of the 3 people easily, but each climber needs only enough grip to hold up his own weight. Now imagine due to "construction issues" you can't get one long rope, so you get 2 shorter lengths. Ideally, you'd tie the ropes together to create a nearly identical scenario, but in this case, it's like they tied the bottom rope to the middle guy's ankle, and expected him to hold on with the added weight of the guy below him.

    Unfortunately, it was just strong enough to hold a few people, but let go when it was fully loaded.

    =

    --
    "No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
    1. Re:Correct... by geobeck · · Score: 4, Insightful
      ...in this case, it's like they tied the bottom rope to the middle guy's ankle...

      We need to mod this up to a 6. I also studied this disaster in school, but this simple paragraph does a much better, simpler job of explaining the cause than any other I've heard.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
  43. Re:I believe he's talking about AA191 by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You read it correct. Basically, the wing engine tore away, taking out the hydralics. Sadly, the crew never knew the full state of what was happening. Walt lux (a family friend and my father's co-worker) was a senior captain. He did exactly as he was trained to do. Sadly, without the indicators, they never stood a chance.

    I have thought about the fact that my father had one in 61 chance of being the co-pilot on that craft. In fact, airlines pilots (back then, anyways) tend to fly together and would pick the same schedule. Walt and my father flew together a great deal at that time, so it was probably like 1 in 5 chance. Weird to contemplate.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  44. What about HMS Royal George? by jamrock · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Vasa had a complement of 445, of whom it is not clear how many were lost. The HMS Royal George, however, sank just off Spithead on August 29, 1782 in very similar circumstances to the Vasa with the loss of eight hundred, including an admiral of the fleet. An inquest concluded that her loss was due to structural failure. This was one of the worst marittime disasters of all time, and I'm surprised that the loss of the Vasa, and not of the Royal George, is on the list.

  45. Interesting factoid about the "Galloping Gertie" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Tacoma Narrows bridge didn't fail due to resonance.

    Read that first line again.

    It was not resonance, your first year, second year, calculus, dynamics and control systems books all lied to you. Lied. Not truthful. Not correct.
    Read: K. Billah and R. Scanlan, "Resonance, Tacoma Narrows Bridge Failure, and Undergraduate Physics, Textbooks;" American Journal of Physics, 1991.

    It was not a time dependant thing, therefore, not resonance. The bridge was shaking NOWHERE near its resonant frequencies. The motion of the bridge actually induced "negative damping" . That would sort of be like pulling your parachute and having it drag you to the ground faster and faster as you gain speed. Sounds weird, but totally true. They show in that paper that the bridge under the wind loading becomes a self excited structure and, at a critical wind speed, the eigenvalues of the bridge stucture change sign, causing the bridge to enter an exponentially increasing vibrational state, eventually breaking the bridge down.

    I built a cool model of the Tacoma narrows bridge, with controllable air flow, and reproduced this behavior for a college course in experimental design. It was neat to visually watch eigenvalues change in an experiment.

    Oh the physics of pulling wool over eyes is so fun. BTW, that "doubling the loading that any physics student could understand" bit in the other posts. Right. Most physics students can't tell you if the box slips downhill or uphill using a free body diagram. Give me a break.

  46. Re:Front-Load Washers by WhyCause · · Score: 3, Interesting
    There are two reasons my mother hated the front-load washer she had.

    1. You can't add clothes after you hit start. If you see a sock on the ground that fell out of the pile as you were loading, well, that'll just have to wait.
    2. It is impossible to soak clothes overnight. Since the tub is not full of water you just can't do it, and my Mom swears by soaking for tough stain removal.


    There was a time for a while in the US that everyone and their brother was afraid we'd run out of water, tomorrow (EVERYBODY PANIC). Manufacturers (temporarily) switched production, almost exclusively, to front-load machines to capitalize on that fear. It turns out that the only people afraid enough to actually use the damn things were the people who live in deserts (I'm looking at you southern California). They're the ones that keep foisting abominations like low-flow showerheads on those of us smart enough to live close enough to stable water supplies.

    n.b., Just so you know I'm at least half-joking about SoCal, I live in New Orleans, where we occasionally have a little too much water.
  47. Fifteen Foot Waves of Molasses? by Nekomusume · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sweet!

  48. Shining example of humanity in al lthe fuckups by Unknown+Poltroon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citigroup_Center

    The citgroup building in manhattan. It was well desigend to the standard enginnering principles by its architecht/engineer William LeMessurier. Shortly after its construction, he got a call from a student who asked him about a different type of wind shear, and he assured the student the building was bult to withstand all winds up to like 130mph. After a little thought, he ran the numbers again as the student brought up, and realized that a hurricane might take out the building, and cause a domino effect that would take out most of manhatten. This man actually stepped up and told the buildings owners about the problem, and came up with a plan to fix it. This story seriously restored my faith in humanity, and he is one of the great unknown heroes of our age. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut, and no one could have faulted him, he did everything right. But he still stepped up and said "theres a problem with what i did...."
    This is one of the best examples of ethics i have ever seen.

    --
    All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
    1. Re:Shining example of humanity in al lthe fuckups by borawjm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but was it really William LeMessurier's fault?

      From the Wiki:
      While LeMessurier's original design and load calculations for the special, uniquely-designed 'chevron' load braces used to support the building were based on welded joints, a labor and cost-saving change altered the joints to bolted construction after the building's plans were approved. The engineers did not recalculate what the construction change ...

      Again, it comes back to changes being made after designs are finished. It seems to go hand-in-hand with many of other disasters mentioned here.

  49. Not on the list! by mpfife · · Score: 2, Funny

    No, by far the worst engineering mistake was the f-er who designed my date Mary Swansons impossible-to-remove-in-a-car bra clasps in 1989. I was totally going to score that night but the stupid thing wouldn't come off and killed the moment.

  50. Vasa by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 2, Informative
    The Vasa is a very interesting case. First off, it's the largest restoration project. It has its own museum in Stockholm and if you see nothing else in the city, you shoud see the Vasa. There is a website, but it blows chunks so I won't link to it. See the physical ship instead. The museum has a lot of detail about the making of the ship as well as the sinking, recovery and restoration.

    The ship sank some 10 to 15 minutes into it's maiden voyage. The exact location was forgotten. It was found as the result of one old fellow who spent years and years looking for it by taking core samples of the bottom of the sound every meter or so. The ship was then dug out of the mud by (now archaic-looking) dive teams, raised and then brought to dry dock where it is today.

    IIRC the shipmaster died partway into the construction without a trained or skilled replacement. Unmodified, it would have not been noteworthy and maybe a little under armed. Adding the extra gun deck made the ship too tall and unstable. So to compensate, extra ballast was added, bringing the lowest gun deck about inline with the water.

    Before launching, it failed the stability test of the time in which 40 men where to run in unision from one side of the ship to the other 40 times (or something like that). It was launched anyway, sliding nicely into the water, some sails were set and when it rounded the end of the island and caught it first breeze, it tipped and sank.

    The sinking roughly co-incided with the end of Sweden as a feared superpower, thought it was only one factor of many.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  51. Re:Interesting factoid about the "Galloping Gertie by Ihlosi · · Score: 4, Informative
    Why would it do this if it wasn't being vibrated at a resonance frequency?



    I read the Wikipedia article and found it very interesting:



    The vibration had nothing to do with the resonance frequency of the bridge as a structure, but with the fact that it was wind (as opposed to some other form of energy input, e.g. sound) that was exciting the bridge. At a certain wind speed, the bridge enters a positive feedback loop - when the small motion induced by the wind changes the angle of attack in a way that makes the bridge absorb more and more energy from the wind, eventually increasing the amplitude of the oscillation to a point where structural failure occurs.



    To make it short: The bridge did not oscillate at one of its resonant frequencies - aerodynamics caused it to vibrate at an entirely different frequency but managed to pump enough mechanical energy into the bridge to break it anyway.

  52. Kansas City Hyatt walkways, not negligent design by arpoodle · · Score: 2, Informative

    the Kansas City Hyatt walkways weren't a negligent desgin iirc, the problem was in the interpretation of the design. The walkways were suspended by steel rods, which had a nut which supported the Walkway

    the design specified that a for each support, a single rod would run vertically down, and each walkway sat on a nut on the rod. The rod was strong enough, each Nut could support a single walkway.

    The incorrect interpretation meant that the rod terminated at the first walkway, and a new rod went down to the next level which then terminated, and a third rod then ran to the next walkway down and so on. With 3 walkways suspensed from a nut that was designed to handle the load for 1 walkway it's no surprise it collapsed.

    a

    --
    When a passenger of the foot, hooves in sight, tootel the horn trumpet melodiously
  53. A few quibbles by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 2, Interesting
    A few quibbles with their choices:
    • The DC-10 did have some design issues with the cargo door. But two of the big crashes were NOT due to engineering errors. The engine falling off at Chicago was due to using a dang forklift to remove the engines, which cracked the support structure. The crash in Iowa was due to a rare metallurgical problem with the engine compressor disk. Neither one was an explicit engineering error.
    • The walkway collapse was more a case of poor design review. The original design had ONE rod supporting all the walkways. Nobody realized that there's NO WAY to build that! You can't thread a 60-foot rod through all those walkway beams, not when the building roof is in place. The multi-rod redesign was obviously not reviewed properly.
  54. Re:Three Gorges Dam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Building it on a fault line.

  55. Re:Depends... by Grab · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_Rail_Bridge. Even in 1879, they couldn't build railway bridges. The Tay Rail Bridge disaster was the reason for compulsory registration of civil engineers, and brought on a large degree of over-engineering in all civil engineering projects. Over-engineering meant that it wouldn't fall down, but it also meant it'd be vastly more expensive to build.

    Grab.

  56. You mean you'd never heard of.... by airship · · Score: 2, Funny

    the Boston Molassacre?

    --
    Serving your airship needs since 1995.
  57. Common theme: get a REAL expert by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, if you look at those things, the real common theme was that they were designed or modified by people who _weren't_ real engineers. E.g.:

    - a dam is built by a "self-taught engineer" who can't even get the foundations right

    - a ship design is modified by a king who has no flippin' clue about ship design. He demanded changes like cutting extra portholes right above the water line, loading extra guns and other stuff, and so on. The final design was basically the king's, not the design of a real shipwright.

    - a huge container for molasses is designed and its building supervised by a beancounter with _no_ engineering background whatsoever, and whose only concern was getting it built quickly and cheaply.

    Etc. Sorry, you can't say "never trust the engineers" when, in fact, those mistakes were made by non-engineers.

    Want another common theme? How about ignoring testing or warning signs that it's about to fall apart. E.g.:

    - when the dam started to crack, the "self-taught engineer" just ignored it

    - the molasses container was (A) never tested, e.g., by filling it with water, and (B) when a worker complained that it leaked heavily, the beancounter just covered the problem by having it painted brown.

    - the Vasa, as other posters have noted, was in fact tested before being lanched, but noone had the courage to tell the king that his design doesn't work. In effect, again the warning signs existed, but were effectively ignored.

    And the third thing is: don't think those are just historical trivia, because the exact same things happen nowadays with software. Everyone loves to spew the "colleges don't teach engineering" or "it's time programmers started acting like engineers", but some of the most catastrophic mistakes come from people who had _neither_ a CS or engineering college, _nor_ reasonable work experience or training to bring them up to par. I'm not even sneering (mainly) at the actual coders, because lot of those mistakes were from some manager or customer demanding/making some catastrophic change or imposing some impossible deadmark or policy. (Remember the Vasa and the king.)

    E.g.,

    - a financial institution restates its earnings by 1 _billion_ dollars, because some Excel spreadsheet programmed by a beancounter with _zero_ engineering or programming background... guess what? Mis-calculated by a whole billion dollars.

    - a radiotherapy machine, using lead blocks to cover the parts of the patient that shouldn't be irradiated, had a problem using more than IIRC 4 lead blocks. So a doctor takes it upon himself to hack it to use non-rectangular blocks to the same end. The result: the program mis-calculates and some people are given a lethal dose of radiation.

    And that's just the spectacular stuff. I'm sure almost everyone has their own stories where someone else's intervention had catastrophic results, even if in less spectacular ways.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.