Legal Actions of School Against a Proxy's Host?

WakefieldHS-students asks: "I attend a public school, Wakefield High School in Raleigh, North Carolina. A friend of mine recently created a site that hosted a web proxy browser. It ran for a few months, and others at our school found out about it. The original domain was blocked by the censorship software the school uses, and it was changed a few times to get around this. Recently, he was forced to take down the proxy, with the threat of not graduating and the taking of legal action by the school. What legal rights, if any, can the school use to ban someone from hosting a website? Furthermore, what rights does the U.S. Government have to censor such websites?"

Comments

Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Pyromage]

I'm relatively certain that the school wasn't just arbitrarily chasing the site across every domain he owned, not unless they had reason. Why was he running a proxy? What material was he or his friends accessing from the school?

As far as legal rights to censor that, they can do just about whatever they want in loco parentis.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Cyphertube]

Of course, since the operation of proxy server is not done under school property and doesn't have anything to do with the care of the student, the argument for it being in loco parentis doesn't really hold water.

Of particular note, if he's near graduating, he may well be 18 already, at which point in loco parentis no longer applies. By threatening his academic situation, a publically mandated and required function of the school, by regarding his own actions off school time, then they could actually be sued on grounds of harrassment.

Now, they could pursue action against him for access the proxy from the school, but not against him for others.

Moreover, since I was nailed under in loco parentis when I was in middle school, I can tell you that loco parentis ceases the instant you enter your front door, if you ride the bus home from school. I got nailed for verbally assaulting the bus driver (who later was nailed for felony hit and runs against mailboxes, thus disproving the slander and defamation charges they 'threatened' me with). As I was told, if I'd entered my house, come back out, and then yelled at her, it would have been out of the school's hands.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Lord Kano]

The school would be completely within its rights to threaten to not allow graduation for anyone who accessed the proxy with the school's computers, but they have no right to dictate what legal activities a student may partake in while that student isn't under the egiss of the school.

In other words, the school has nothing to do with what you do while you're on your own time.

LK

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Otter]

In my IANAL-And-He's-Not-Telling-Us-The-Whole-Story opinion:

1) The kid and his friends were repeatedly and systematically violating school rules, and can certainly be punished.

2) The precise ultimatum that the school gave him is probably not within the school's power to make.

3) The question is how much effort and money he's willing to expend in court on a grey area case, when the school would be perfectly within bounds to give him a clearly legal and much more serious punishment.

4) I don't get what the US government's role in this is supposed to be.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[techfury90]

I go to WHS, so I know about this story. Basically he was running a proxy to allow people to visit banned sites such as MySpace from there, which was its typical use. Every time someone was in the computer lab, you'd see MySpace up via this website.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Anonymous Coward]

So he was allowing people to access banned material on the school's network, and somehow he thinks the school is in the wrong.

Fuck that. He deserves everything he gets.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[techfury90]

Except that's just my guess as to his intent. His site seemed to be either a somewhat decent front or a site where he had forums and other things that happened to include a proxy. Either way, I haven't spoken to him but that's just my speculation.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[techfury90]

Also if anyone wants to take this up with the administration, email the principal at stakacs@, call at +1 (919) 562-3600; ask for Mr. Takacs, or if you _really_ want to cause an impact, try +1 (919) 851-3980.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Anonymous Coward]

If he is over 18, he may be in even more trouble as he is personally responsible for what he does. Remember they two key points are that other at the school knew about it, which presumable means that students were using it, and that he had been given repeating warning.

Now, IANAL, but it seems to me that if you are 18, and you are supplying adult material to those under 18, which is a reasonable assumption given the common use for such proxies, that is a potentially serious offense. But think about if all he was doing was giving access to myspace, which might be blocked by the school becuase they don't want the freshmen being stalked by 40 year old men. Some girl gets raped, who is going down? The school that tried to protect the student, or the student who took it upon himslef to leave the back door unlocked.

Even simpler than this is the disruption of the classroom and misuse of equipment. If the student is providing access to material that is distracting to studenta or faciliting thier misuse of the equipment, that does not have anything to do with fancy words. That is plain illegal and subject to at least a ticket, which lands the student in court, as an adult. Since the rules for classroom disruption and equipment use are clearly laid out, and since the student has been warned, repeatedly, the student could be held personally responsible for some steep fines. You are talking maybe two weeks work at mcdonalds kind of fine.

The catch-22 that most children don't consider is that when you turn 18 you can check yourself out of school, but you can also be given adult punishments. Oh, and increasingly in an effort to protect students from the mean kids that want to make sure everyone stays as stupid as they are, school are increasing holding the mean kids accountable for conduct off campus, especially criminal activity, which misuse of a computer network can be.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Cyphertube]

Unless the proxy was specifically directed to be used by the network, the school in all honesty could not take action against him with regard to the proxy server. They could go after him for connecting to it, but simply changing the name, location, address, etc. of his system, without modifying the school's system, would render him as immune as any of the other proxy services out there.

Frankly, most attempts to bypass proxies I've seen, having working in both academic and corporate setting, is the attempt to use chat services that are otherwise blocked.

Providing access to disrupting material on the Internet that requires the students to log on and go find it is no more punishable that if the bookstore down the street sells a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook.

Yes, at 18 you have adult punishment. But you also have to meet the criteria of the law in order to use them.

Lastly, for the hypothetical girl being raped because of MySpace contact... Criminally, neither party would be liable (only the rapist). As far as a civil tort goes, yes, they could possibly pursue a case, but since the access to the Internet was provided by the school, they would be majority responsible. It is not in the school's power or jursidiction, however, to determine the liability that the student wants to open himself to.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[martinultima]

This actually sounds just like my school district vs. me. This (last) year I had to do a personal project for the IB program, which in my case happened to be maintaining a Linux distribution. And I figured that since I was in the computer lab as a student helper one of the class periods, I'd just borrow one of their machines and create an SSH tunnel to get to my machine at home, then use x0vncserver to forward the desktop so I could tweak stuff and come back right where I left off. [Not the most efficient way, I know...]

Anyway, long story short, they don't really notice until I start checking things on my homepage as well; nothing bad or anything, and not even personal stuff, just the Linux-related parts of it that I'd need for the project. So they block it. So I e-mail them, politely asking to unblock it – and just to be sure, I check their censorware program's homepage, and since they've also got it blocked, I e-mail them.

Couple days later, no response from my own school district – but the censorware people were more than happy to unblock my site.

Few months later, the district people call a bunch of parent-teacher conferences about the whole thing, saying that I was bypassing their proxy server and "compromising system security" – the ironic part was, I was actually safer doing an SSH tunnel, because it was one-way only and the only machine that would be affected by the fatal typo of doom or whatever would be my own at home. But either way, they don't get their way, so a few days later they actually send their people down to personally yell at me. (Talk about wasting taxpayer dollars – these people apparently have enough free time that they can just drop everything else to come yell at a single student in a school of over 1500. And this is a fairly big school district, so there's other schools, too – but no, they have more of a threat coming from some kid using an SSH tunnel than from all the other would-be hackers visiting porn sites, installing spyware, and posting to MySpace.com. I still don't understand their logic...)

But, either way, those school district people, even if their intentions are good – you just have to watch out for those guys. They're kind of like the BOFH, really, only they use expulsion and no graduation rather than killing people – they consider it their job to keep the network running smoothly, and if it means kicking people off and expelling them / denying graduation / etc., they'll do it – because they only need to worry about the network, not the people.

Just a tip from someone who'd know...

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Otter]

They're kind of like the BOFH, really, only they use expulsion and no graduation rather than killing people - they consider it their job to keep the network running smoothly, and if it means kicking people off and expelling them / denying graduation / etc., they'll do it - because they only need to worry about the network, not the people.

Err, yeah... Two things:

1) If I may gently offer some advice -- being smarter than other people doesn't mean you always have to get your way. I get your technical point, but it's their network, not yours. Honestly, you'd be wise to learn that lesson now before you have to learn it with much more serious consequences in the future.

2) You seem to have had good intentions, if rather poor judgment. The intentions of the guy in the original question are left unclear, and I'm inclined to assume poorly about them.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[martinultima]

1) If I may gently offer some advice -- being smarter than other people doesn't mean you always have to get your way. I get your technical point, but it's their network, not yours. Honestly, you'd be wise to learn that lesson now before you have to learn it with much more serious consequences in the future.

Trust me, I've heard that one about a million times by now... I actually didn't even bother messing with any of their machines after that, if I needed a computer for something (e.g., class PowerPoint) I just dragged in my laptop, which doesn't have an Internet connection – well, at school, anyway – and used that thing instead. Besides, my laptop has games :-)

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[jZnat]

I've heard from school network admins that doing a school's IT is the worst. Some teachers don't have the slightest clue on how to even turn on their computer let alone use it, while many students are constantly trying to blackhat the network. In a normal job, you could just get the troublemakers fired, but you can't exactly fire a student for messing around with the network (especially with an apathetic school administration if applicable). Then you have state or local laws requiring crap like nanny software to be installed to "protect the children", so it's not like you can just let everyone go wherever they want without legal repercussions.

I truly do feel sorry for school IT admins, but I do wish they'd at least get out of the way of those students that would otherwise just end up constantly trying to bring the entire network down out of their own frustrations with their arbitrary limitations while you're frustratingly trying to explain how to "right click" something to some old fart of a teacher. Students like you should be left alone; they obviously know what they're doing, so much less maintenance is necessary for that particular luser.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[munpfazy]

1) If I may gently offer some advice -- being smarter than other people doesn't mean you always have to get your way. I get your technical point, but it's their network, not yours. Honestly, you'd be wise to learn that lesson now before you have to learn it with much more serious consequences in the future.

But in this case, it doesn't sound like he did anything out of line. They didn't forbid him to do what he was doing - they suddenly began blocking it as a security threat. He then a note to all the responsible parties explaining that it wasn't a security threat. The contractor saw that he was right and unblocked it, the school admins got pissed off because they were shown to be stupid in public and tried to take out their frustration on the student. The only thing he did wrong was expect the school to behave in a reasonable, professional manner.

Now, if he went back and did it again after being warned not to do it, that would be questionable judgment. (Good for the world perhaps, as bucking idiotic rules can, in the long run, cause rule makers to change their policies, but certainly bad for him in an immediate and personal way.) But there's nothing wrong with sending someone a letter saying, "You've misclassified what I'm doing as a security threat. It isn't." It sounds to me like the most approriate way to handle such a situation.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Anonymous Coward]

I can sympathise with your position because I have been in one which, at least to me, seemed similar.

I tend to be a pretty forgetful person, and I do all my work on computer, often so I don't lose anything. I had to email all my home work from home to school and then vice versa each day. However, on a few occasions, I forgot work even though I'd done it, which was rather frustrating. Rather than keep the teacher waiting who wanted to collect all the work in and get the marking done over the weekend, at lunch time I connected to my computer (which was running remote access software, RemotelyAnywhere) through HTTPS and used the screenshot-based remote control (eg. it shows a screenshot of the desktop, and using javascript allows you to interact with it) to email it to my school account, which the teacher was greatful for. I then logged out. I did this on a number of occasions when I'd forgotten important work and sent it to school. My teachers were also aware that I was doing this, and to me, it seemed like a logical thing for a person with a bad memory like me to do, and I didn't think any harm would come of it, because it didn't strike me as breaking any rules.

The school provides internet for work purposes, and as far as I was concerned, this was just what I was doing. However, near the end of term, I was taken out of my lessons and called to talk to the network administrator, who had apparently found a visual basic screensaver of mine which I had made years ago (as part of a programming club at lunchtime, no less) because they were doing a check for screensavers, and me having it raised their suspicion. Wen they looked into my file, their security software logs web accesses and takes screenshots of activity and they found out I had been emailling work to school from home.

They then proceeded to tell me off for hacking and that I was breaking the law. To me, I couldn't believe it. Apparently because I was accessing something outside the school (which to me, was no different than any other website) and was knowledgable about computers (they asked if I knew how to use the commandline, when I said they did, they told me off for this, saying I could use it to find out peoples IP addreses???). I was therefore a security threat.

They were considering expelling me or banning me from the computers because of this, and I couldn't believe it. They then proceeded to tell me about the computer misuse act (This was in the UK) and how I was a hacker? I tried to explain to them, but they would not listen. Apparently the words "remote access" and the fact I knew how to use it was enough to say I was a hacker and thus was breaking school rules. I wasn't even exactly sure of what they were saying I had done wrong. Eventually my head of year stuck up for me, and I went unpunished, but the experience was rather depressing and almost unbelievable. I was also told never to access another computer again.

The fact that the majority of the students bring in games, spend lessons playing various games, surf illegal websites, steal teachers passwords and use them, bring in spyware and viruses and attempt to "hack" the network with various tools, are allowed to do so, and teachers turn a blind eye to it. Even the person that stole the administrator password to the entire school, gave it out to the majority of students and used it to access classified files was given less of a warning than I. I was no threat to them, I wasn't do anything to harm the network, or anything against the school rules themselves, and that was what I received. Yet others which consistently do so are allowed to.

As the poster above said, I don't understand their logic either. They said they were in a grounds to charge me under the law under the computer misuse act, but as far as I was aware, I wasn't accessing anything that was unauthorised. At one point, they used the details from their keylogger to attempt to log into my system (which was recorded on my computer, and still saved) - Surely they were the ones gaining unauthorised ac

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Kwesadilo]

It's kind of like maintaining the technology has become the thing that they are legally reaqured to do, and giving you an education has become the privilege that they can take away, instead of the other way around.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Otter]

Now, if he went back and did it again after being warned not to do it, that would be questionable judgment.

That's what I had understood "But either way, they don't get their way..." to mean -- maybe I misunderstood.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Ihlosi]

They're kind of like the BOFH, really,

Now, they're worse. The BOFH does have technical expertise.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[grahamm]

As you were accessing your own computer, the Computer Misuse Act does not apply. If they had insisted that it did, then all you would have to do is give yourself written permission to remotely access your own computer.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Casualposter]

I read this from a parent's point of view. The IB program is a school project. So, he uses school time and school property to access information for a school project. The school is angry about this, and has a parent teacher conference (I've been at these conferences defending my own kids from a lame brained ID10T.) where the school complains that jr is doing is school work at school on school time and on school property. So the parents ask quite reasonably, why are you harrassing our kid over doing his homework at school? The teachers can't really answer and the adminstration won't decide without consulting the school board. So nothing is done. Later, they try to corner the kid and bully him into "conforming" to their ID10T "expectations" or it will "adversely affect" his graduation. This is so they don't have to show up at a school board meeting looking like a dain bramaged rat.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[LWATCDR]

Seems like they are actually trying to be nice about it. The student is providing a proxy server to get around the high schools security. All they have to do is make a rule that if you use a proxy server you are expelled. First they are blocked it and now they are giving the kid a warning. I am shocked that they are being so reasonable about it. Seems simple to me. Just don't try and get around the schools security. If you really want to run a proxy server you can probably do it with no problem. Just never access it from school or tell anyone at school about it. Of course the only real reason to run one is to get around the schools security and web blocking.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Tweekster]

and in all honesty, they cant do expulsions, they have no power over graduation.

And the administration will have a hell of a time doing either of those things also.

You might be able to expel as student for that reason, but basically you wouldnt have to worry abut ever paying for college if they attempted to deny graduation.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Paulcet]

After reading several responses, it seems to me that those responsible for the school network and its access to the rest of the world feel threatened by smart kids who could cause havok with their system. The administrators are going to do whatever they can to maintain control, even if it means threatening legal action. I sincerely doubt any legal action would truely take place.

As the parent of a very smart 8-year old, I think it would be wise for me to become good friends with a lawer, however. A letter on law firm stationery can often bring about an amicable solution.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[ray-auch]

They're kind of like the BOFH, really, only they use expulsion and no graduation rather than killing people


Er, BOFHs do not kill people. Accidents kill people. These are important facts to learn/recite/correct your statement with (prior to next visit to the tape safe...).

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[Soruk]

In fact, in this instance it is the school (or that administrator) who is in violation of the Computer Misuse Act, by using a keylogged password to attempt to access a machine he has no business or permission to access.

Re:Ok, now tell us the rest of it

[izm]

For the most part, you'll find that school IT is really a case of fear of the unknown, which is the case literally everywhere in today's society just as it was throughout the ages. When I was in high school, I had even more restrictive policies, and the IT dept was not really well structured at all. The equipment was in disrepair, and some of the calls they made were just stupid. I used to enjoy booting from a live CD in the lab, because it wasn't subject to the terrible UI restrictions found on the windows domain machines. The most amusing part of this is that instead of forcing all traffic through the proxy by limitting which machines can get out, they just locked the proxy setting into IE, meaning if you could get rid of it, you could go through unfiltered. Naturally, i did it more often than not. On another note, I was not allowed to do any of my programming for APCS on networked computers owned by the school. They seemed to believe that programmers were a threat to the network, so they would not allow the CS lab, composed of a rag-tag bunch of second hand PC's, to access the network. I even offered to help them improve the network. Naturally, that went over so well that they ignored my ever saying it (i don't blame them...nobody likes to see where they made mistakes...especially not idiots like them). All in all, public schools are places where people who barely understand computers enforce rigid restrictions on them with no rhyme or reason beyond avoiding litigation. I'm glad I'm out.

Their network, their rules

[9mm Censor]

They can block what they want on their network.

Re:Their network, their rules

[MBCook]

Agreed.

The real question here is whether they can do things like prevent his graduation.

Of course, I agree with one of the other posters that we don't have the whole story here.

Re:Their network, their rules

[mrchaotica]

Yeah, but since when could they block what they wanted OFF their network, by threatening the operator?!!

I really don't care if this guy was running a proxy to MySpace or child porn or the Christian Coalition. The school system should not have any right to tell him what he can or cannot do with his on equipment, period!

If he was doing something illegal, then the school system should just contact the police and have them handle it, because at least the police are subject to oversight by the judicial system. If he wasn't doing anything illegal, then the school system should be limited to punishing rule-breaking that actually occurred on campus. E.g., they shouldn't be threatening the student who is running the proxy, they should be giving detention to everyone that uses it from a school computer.

Re:Their network, their rules

[masterzora]

Here's the funny thing: The school system does have the right to punish students for certain things that they do on their own time with their own equipment away from the school campus. The main use for this is if the content seems in anyway threatening (for example, a student at my school last year got a 10-day suspension for having a website with a "bitch list" stating that "these people should be shot". Anybody who knows the student agrees that he was not serious about them being shot or harmed in any way and that he would never commit such an act, etc, etc, but the administration still punished him for it.). I'm not positive what other things fit into this category, but I'm sure something like this (content causes distraction from school) could fit in.

Re:Their network, their rules

[mrchaotica]

Here's the funny thing: The school system does have the right to punish students for certain things that they do on their own time with their own equipment away from the school campus.

No, the school system does not have that right! It has attempted to autocratically assume that right, and it has managed to convince most people that it has that right, but it does not have the moral or Constitutional authority to claim that right!

And I, for one, am sick and tired of our failure as American Citizens to put the school system (and all the other parts of government acting beyond their authority) in their places!

Re:Their network, their rules

[Alchemar]

That policy needs to be changed. School are an institution of education, police are the institution of enforcement. Police have rules and courts to protect the people they are enforcing against. Schools make up whatever they want and call it policy.

Re:Their network, their rules

[compro01]

I don't see the point in setting up a "web proxy browser" to bypass the school's filtering.

it would be necessary to get your work done if their filtering software is anything like the shit they tried a couple years back at my school. the thing was waaaay too sensitive to things.

among things it blocked :

a history article on the holocaust (for history class, blocked for "inappropriate imagery")

an article on basic computer security (computers class, blocked for "explicit language")

a worksheet on finding derivatives (which was part of the school-board calculus curriculum, blocked for "explicit language")

needless to say, the software was shortly junked due to the techs getting bombarded with requests to unblock things

Re:Their network, their rules

[b4upoo]

Sadly school boards in the larger districts often approach stark raving insanity as their normal mode of operation. The motives of individual board members can vary from being totally political to hard core financial corruption. Take a look at the compensation one gets for being on a board and you will quickly know just why the scum of the earth are in these positions.

Private versus Public

[MBCook]

A private school can do that kind of thing. That's why I like them better (among MANY other reasons). That's the way things are.

But, you said it's a public school. I don't see why a public school can do that. And I'd be willing to wager a large amount of cash he didn't have to sign a "I will not host a web proxy server" document when he started to attend the school.

So what does he do?

Sue

That's all that works these days. If the school administration is going to be like that (note: I'm assuming he just set it up for personal use or something and isn't encouraging other students to use it to break school policy) then they obviously aren't willing to deal with him on this. In such situations (especially with a government institution like a school) a strongly worded nasty-gram from a lawyer will make a world of difference. Indicate you are willing to reach a compromise or something (that you're not just a "Free speech at all costs sue the school for $100,000,000" nut-job and are willing to be reasonable) and I'm sure something will get worked out quickly.

When faced with a lawsuit, most of the time in the US the person being threatened with the suit will just cave or try to work it out fast, even if they are right (which, in this case, is easily debatable).

Re:Private versus Public

[alienw]

I wouldn't bother. The government or the school cannot force him to take the site down. The school could withhold his diploma, or proceed with disciplinary action -- that's most likely within their rights. If you really feel strongly about it, you could talk to a lawyer, but it's probably not worth the effort.

Re:Private versus Public

[ceejayoz]

And I'd be willing to wager a large amount of cash he didn't have to sign a "I will not host a web proxy server" document when he started to attend the school.

My public school required the signing of an Internet use contract before getting an account on the network. The bit about not doing anything to evade the school's blocking software would certainly apply in this case, and I would be very surprised to hear of a public school that didn't require a similar contract with their students.

Re:Private versus Public

[MaverickUW]

No, but he and/or his parents probably had to sign a computer/internet acceptable use policy for the school. If nothing else, they can get the guy, and by proxy (pun intended) every other student who accessed sites with it. Depending on what the punishment is for violating the schools acceptable use policy, this could work. The fact that he is specifically setting something up to allow for the illegal circumvention of the policy is where they might have a case.

Think of it like any threat to a school. Sure, it's done out of school time, doesn't mean the police/school won't do anything about it. They should just give everyone caught using it a warning, and then start doing whatever the punishments are in their AUP.

Re:Private versus Public

[NuclearDog]

Well, I think my school requires it, but they're incredibly disorganized about it.

They handed one out to the whole class I was in to sign, then went and picked them back up, not checking if they were signed, and since then none of the CS classes I've taken have had a teacher who's bothered to check to make sure we've signed the agreement.

(Not that the agreement is any use, as a minor I'd need my legal guardian to sign it also, unless my understanding of the law is incorrect.)

ND

Re:Private versus Public

[A beautiful mind]

"A private school can do that kind of thing. That's why I like them better (among MANY other reasons)."

Za friend za friend! You are a real brother to us! The government/private schools needs more power to crack down on these anarchist youth! Viva El Presidente! Fight for your government too!

(Note: If you wouldn't have said that you like them better because they can do that kind of thing, my post wouldn't have been called to existence. It is one thing that it seems US schools public or private are so authority based or authority indoctrinated, it is another that you're actually supporting that. Since I was 14 I had the up to date laws about education at my home in my country. It is not much that I ever needed it, but I just wanted to know my rights, what I can and can't lawfully do as a student.

The thing is, ethically, morally, or by law the school has nothing to do with a proxy or who operates it or if it is a student. If they think the proxy is illegal they can go to the nearest police station and tell the police about it. If the school thinks it can force a student to shut off a proxy, they have issues with what I believe you call the constitution. The correct way for the school to handle the whole thing would have been to determine whether the students reached content through the proxy that is deemed inappropriate and then they can work out what punishment they want for the student (like suspension of computer usage at school, having a chat with parents, suspending the kid for x days, the usual).)

Re:Private versus Public

[jrockway]

> it's probably not worth the effort

It's definitely worth the effort. My school (not exactly private; IMSA) kicked out a number of students for supposed thought crimes. Writing a song about a teacher they didn't like; posting "racist" comments on a private message board from home; etc. I wish someone had the balls to sue them -- I'm sure they would have lost big time.

Just beacuse you're under 18 doesn't mean you deserve to be considered too dumb / young to have a voice. "First they came for those under 18, then they came for "the terrorists", now they're here for me and nobody is left to speak out." Don't put up with them.

OTOH, if the OP did something stupid, then they might have a case. Not telling us the details just hurts you in the end.

Re:Private versus Public

[mrchaotica]

note: I'm assuming he just set it up for personal use or something and isn't encouraging other students to use it to break school policy

So what if he is? The school system still doesn't have the right to punish him for it, because it's still the other students who are breaking the rules by accessing it, not him! He has the Right to Free Speech regardless of the power the school system fascists think they've given themselves, and has done nothing wrong!

Re:Private versus Public

[mrchaotica]

Yes, and the maximum penalty under that contract is usually not being allowed to use the computer network. They're threatening to not let this guy graduate, which is entirely unreasonable.

Re:Private versus Public

[nahdude812]

The biggest problem with schools in the U.S. is that they don't have enough authority. There is very little they can do to punnish a student who has done wrong that isn't actually rewarding them. Detentions are nothing more than after school study hall, in-school suspension is a chance to sit there and not be bothered by teachers, out-of-school suspension is a vacation, and expulsion means you go to a different school where they aren't yet on to your schenanigans. Students know this, and they exploit it by indulging in behaviors that toe the line of whatever punnishment level they are willing to accept to be able to participate in that behavior. Sometimes they cross the threshold, do their time, and go right back to doing whatever they had been doing.

Students need to learn that when dealing with people in a position of authority, you need to respect not just the letter of what they say, but also the spirit of what they say. You can't expect to just find some loop hole and not get punnished. If I bypassed the filtering proxy at work like this, and kept changing where my external proxy was located every time they caught onto me, I would be out of a job even though I technically didn't do anything wrong.

Barriers exist not to make undesirable behavior impossible (which would remind me of 1984's New Speak anyhow), but rather to establish the parameters of what sorts of behavior are acceptable. The fact is that this was an act of defiance, whether or not he was able to technically figure out how to manage it, and whether or not that defiance happened on his own time. Further, this act of defiance was specifically targeted at enabling him to defy his administration during times when he was under their influence, even though he had to set it up while he was outside their authority. Acts of defiance over authority figures need to be punnished in children, and this helps to establish their ability to engage civilly with other human beings once they're adults.

Children need to learn lessons, schools need to teach children these lessons, and they need to be proffered punnishments that they identify as actually being undesirable, not just another suspension-vacation.

Re:Private versus Public

[molo]

Minors can't enter into valid contracts.

-molo

Re:Private versus Public

[ceejayoz]

It's quite clear that rules can be applied to them, and punishments enforced.

Re:Private versus Public

[ceejayoz]

If you think a public school would restrict itself to revocation of computer privileges for breaking the contract, you haven't been to one. They keep as many punishment options as possible open.

Re:Private versus Public

[bgalehouse]

Wow, what a lesson. The letter of the law is meaningless, only the spirit matters. Especially when an authority figures are there to interpret what the spirit is. Simply a wonderfull, cheerfull lesson for their little creative and adventurous minds.

Re:Private versus Public

[masterzora]

Well, I don't know about the school in the OP, but mine certainly required the student AND the parent (in the case of a minor) to sign. Nothing says the OP wasn't the same.

Re:Private versus Public

[alienw]

Thought crimes? Grow up. Just try writing a song about a boss you don't like, and see how long it will take for him/her to fire your butt. Same thing goes for racist comments. Out there in the real world, you have to be careful about what you say, how you say it, and who hears it. Otherwise, be prepared for consequences. Sounds like someone learned this lesson the hard way.

Not to mention, you are talking about a magnet school. Seriously, if you don't like it there, go somewhere else. I'm sure there are plenty of people on the waiting list.

Re:Private versus Public

[fean]

The school is In Loco Parentis... So by signing something during school hours in the presence of a school official is legally binding.

my HS and College both had little blurbs every time you logged in that says "You may only log in if you agree to abide by all rules, you are responsible for anything that happens from your account, so be sure to log out". This is also legally binding.

The Asker's friend is in the wrong... By evading the proxy he is breaking the rules and the school can punish him for it. Besides, it sounds like it's a public proxy, which means that others can access restricted sites. While he may be doing this on his own time, other students are using what he does to break the rules also... When he starts interfering with the other kids' education, then there's an undeniable issue.

Re:Private versus Public

[NuclearDog]

"The school is In Loco Parentis... So by signing something during school hours in the presence of a school official is legally binding."

Ah, okay.

"my HS and College both had little blurbs every time you logged in that says "You may only log in if you agree to abide by all rules, you are responsible for anything that happens from your account, so be sure to log out"."

Yeah, my school's just say "All activity is being monitored.".

Anyways, on the original topic, I think the friend is in the wrong, but I don't think the school has any right to threaten legal action. Suspension (for unacceptable use of the computers or something), sure, but not legal action.

Cheers,
ND

Re:Private versus Public

[Chelloveck]

Thought crimes? Grow up. Just try writing a song about a boss you don't like, and see how long it will take for him/her to fire your butt. Same thing goes for racist comments. Out there in the real world, you have to be careful about what you say, how you say it, and who hears it. Otherwise, be prepared for consequences. Sounds like someone learned this lesson the hard way.

Been there, done that. Incident #1, I posted a song about my employer's change from a pretty generous bonus policy to an all but non-existant one. It was nothing crude, just saying something to the effect that the bonus was enough to buy a Happy Meal and a dessert. I posted this to an internal "social" news group where all manner of discussion was held. The next day someone in HR talked to my boss telling him to keep his eye on me, that I was a troublemaker. He was much amused by this (and by the song, for that matter) and we had a good laugh.

Incident #2, different employer. The company's firewall was set up with a boneheaded content filter -- it once blocked me from completely work-related site, complaining about "alternative lifestyles". I was looking up info on the parallel port specs, and apparently the firewall didn't like the term "bi-directional". So I set up an SSH tunnel to a proxy on my home machine and bounced the request off of that. For grins I also set up VNC, then went to our sysadmin and showed her how I could view my home desktop from work, and my work desktop from home. She just stared at it and said, "Tell me what you did, and tell me how to stop it." So I told her and said I'd take it down if she wanted me to, but short of cutting off all outside access there was no way to keep someone else from doing the same thing. She allowed me to keep it up. I learned much later that she'd had a discussion with her boss about this event regarding whether some sort of disciplinary action should be taken. They decided that I was a white hat, and it was better to have me on their side than against them.

Incident #3, same employer as #2. The department had just had a group outing to see the latest Star Wars movie. I came across a hilarious review (brought to my attention by a posting here on Slashdot, actually) of the movie and posted a link to it on our department's intranet. Aparently someone outside the department took offense at the review, decided that the site it was on was a racist site, and I got my butt summarily fired. Despite having the entire department up to and including the VP of engineering come to my defense, and despite evidence that the site wasn't actually racist. Merely the hint of it was enough to run afoul of the company's "zero tolerance" policy and I was escorted to the door.

The moral is, life just ain't fair, in the workplace or the school. Get used to it. This kid got a warning, or even multiple warnings. The school's usage policy may or may not be stupid, but at least he deserves whatever punishment he gets for repeatedly violating it.

IMHO the way a situation like this should be handled is to sit down with the kid and his parents and say, "Look. We know you're smart, and we know you're capable of getting around just about any kind of filter we can put up. We're not going to waste our time playing whack-a-mole trying to shut you down. Knock it off voluntarily or be prepared to face whatever disciplinary action we can take."

Re:Private versus Public

[fean]

Well... if the proxy was only used by the friend, and other students weren't affected, then yes, a suspension would be the proper course.

But if the proxy was being used by other students, AND the school has asked and warned 'the friend' several times (it sounds like this), but the kid keeps moving the proxy around, then the school has no choice but to threaten legal action. They are there to protect all students, and if one student is breaking the rules on purpose, repeatedly, and not changing his ways after they punish hime (I'm sure he's received detention or some other slap on the hand before this), the school has to do something.

When you're a kid in the public school, you don't (and shouldn't) have the rights of someone "in the real world". The school is an institution meant to serve and protect. If you're there, then you abide by every rule, if you don't like the rules, take it up through the proper channels. Civil Disobedience doesn't work in school, the kids aren't the ones who've paid for their education, the taxpayers are... If you waste the school's time and money, you're wasting the community's money, and that only shows that you aren't responsible enough to be in the real world yet.

Anonymity?

[tuomasb]

How did they find out the site administrator's identity the first place? Why didn't he just use services like DomainByProxy.com to conceal whois information?

Re:Anonymity?

[JFitzsimmons]

Because he shouldn't HAVE to? How is one supposed to take evasive action against rules that aren't on the books?

It's not really the website

[Joe U]

It's not really the website, it's that you're using a tool to circumvent their filters.

IANAL, but I don't think they have any legal recourse for shutting down the site, but they can go after you for bypassing the filters.

Now, if all you're doing is mirroring content, then that's another story. It depends on the content.

Re:It's not really the website

[mrchaotica]

It's not really the website, it's that you're using a tool to circumvent their filters.

Yeah, except that he wasn't using that tool (presumably), other students were. He just set it up, and most importantly, did so at home which is outside the jurisdiction of the school!

If they want to give students detention if they catch them using the proxy at school, I see no problem. However, they're trying to punish this guy for stuff he did at home. And that's something I do have a very large problem with!

Re:It's not really the website

[Joe U]

The article sounded like he was using the tool at school and letting others use it as well. Unfortunately, it's not very clear.

It's not a web site

[scdeimos]

There's a whopping huge difference between hosting a web site and hosting a proxy server. To me it sounds like the student hosting the proxy server was doing this to circumvent the school's access controls, so it's a precedent for intent, irrelevent of it being malicious or beneign.

If the school's network admins had half a brain then all access beyond the border routers would have been deny-by-default, allowing access only from their content-filtering server(s) and mail server(s) thus making this sort of thing impossible to do anyways./p

Re:It's not a web site

[aitikin]

That's a valid point. But then the problem arises that someone could easily argue that he never intended to use it to circumvent the school's filters.

A slightly different tale of troubles with stupid public high schools and their filters:

I know when I was in high school I had to sign a waiver that was never once explained to me, never did I see it again, and, from what my friends who read it thoroughly told me, they said nothing about using proxy servers or anything about avoiding the filters, only that you were not allowed to break their filters. Still my friend was threatened with legal punishment for his website that merely had a messageboard where people spoke ill about the school.

One of the people who frequented the site wrote the site's name on a bathroom stall and he commented (under an alias of course) on the message board about it. The site owner was threatened by the police (yes, in an apparently simple freedom of speech case) that if he did not divulge the person who the alias belonged to, he would face legal punishment and possible jail time. Being a teenaged kid with little to no money to spend on lawyers, he listened to the police and gave the name. The guy who wrote the site was later suspended for 10 days.

Re:It's not a web site

[Lord Kano]

If this proxy is simply a website with a "Insert Web address here:" field and a "Go" button, it would look like any other website to their routers. Unless you're willing to impose and then troubleshoot a "deny by default" policy on all web traffic, it'll be easy to play cat and mouse with the network admins for quite a long time.

LK

Re:It's not a web site

[scdeimos]

That's a valid point. But then the problem arises that someone could easily argue that he never intended to use it to circumvent the school's filters.

Maybe so, but content filters are usually there for more than just censorship, which is the only thing you see people harp on about. They often serve as caching proxies to limit bandwidth usage, sometimes anti-virus filtering to protect the school's servers and workstations. And yes, censhorship to protect students from goat porn and such.

Bypassing the school's filters is increasing their security footprint and potentially exposing them to expensive bandwidth charges, as well as expensive labour costs to come in an remove viruses, trojans and other malware and maybe restore systems from backups or completely rebuild them. Should the student operating the proxy filter have to pay these bills if it was proven that their proxy server was responsible for them? You bet!

According to the summary the student moved her/his proxy around a few times as the school blocked it, so she/he was definitely being an ass about it.

Re:It's not a web site

[scdeimos]

But that's not really a proxy server is it? Trying to implement that sort of functionality in a web page with server-side code is usually a pain due to the requirement of having to rewrite image/embed/object/stylesheet/etc URL's so that those things are accessed through your hacked-up page and not their original addresses (or their now-broken relative URLs), although it is simplified with things like the CFHTTP tag in ColdFusion.

If the school's content filtering is based purely on domain names then the above mechanism would get around them successfully, but a lot of content filtering systems also do keyword matching or Baysian filtering so you wouldn't really achieve much. Even so, "Top 10" reports of bandwidth users would likely turn-up someone using such a page to keep their access to war3z and p0rn sites.

Re:It's not a web site

[Baddas]

He's merely exposing inherent flaws in attempting to filter the internet. Deny-by-default is the only possible and effective way, but of course, people don't like that because we live in a free country where access to information is considered a basic right.

If it was some-other-random-proxy-site, they'd be going after the people using it, which is what they OUGHT to be doing now.

Running a (proxy|remailer|*) is not a crime.

Re:It's not a web site

[Skapare]

If a proxy server is configured to run on port 80, accessing it would look pretty much like accessing a web server. So what are their filters doing on the ports other than 80? Are they filtering by IP address? Host name? Domain name? URI content? And what are they doing about SSL which many sites now require on the login page? All the filters can know for SSL is what IP address and port the connection is being made to. There are a lot of ways to slip through the filters.

Hey kids! If you are going to public school, don't sign that paper. If they had the right to enforce something as law, they wouldn't need to have you agree to it. You think they are allowed to deny you your right to an education? Remember, no child left behind.

Re:It's not a web site

[whizistic]

You'll get all the education you need, just you won't be allowed on the internet. When I worked for a school district, those who had their parents sign the paper got filtered internet access. Those who didn't got intranet access only. Simple active directory groups combined with websense.

Catching those who used other peoples accounts was trivial the instant two logins to the same username happened (since once someone gives out their password, it spreads like wildfire)

Catching those who used external SSL proxys was more difficult, but gross abusers still stood out

Re:It's not a web site

[Solra Bizna]

Way to miss the point.

What if there are 50 students sitting in a computer lab all downloading the same pictures of ancient Egypt at the same time?

-:sigma.SB

Re:It's not a web site

[kesuki]

Actually, the second time it happened the admins (if they had a brain) could set a rule in the acess control software so anyone attempting to access any website containing that exact html code would get either a fake verion that did nothing, or an error page saying that the network was down or any number of approaches.

but since this student owned the proxy, he still could have played cat an mouse by changing the html code being produced, but that would require having access to the proxy webserver to alter the code being generated 'just enough' to bypass the access control software.

I'm not familiar with how to do this with any software other than squid, but it's quite easy to do... that's how virtually every phishing and identiy theft site works, so clearly there are a lot of people who know how to set up a transparent proxy to substitute html code with their own. although most phishing sites aren't 'transparent' enough to use a transparent proxy, but just this past week i came across a transparent proxy for gmail, that offered you 'free' gmail access codes, and the url in the titlebar was the actually google one, so clearly my data was going across the phisher's network. so they could perorm that kind of transparent proxying.

the only difference between their site and googles was that it required your cellphone number, and you had to send them the access code that came across your cellphone. after which they tried to send you a cell phone virus. I don't know what happened to the people running that site, but I hope they weren't doing what they were doing to steal peoples identities. If they were trying to make people aware of the problem that would be different than if they were actually stealing people's money.

Just remember if a website asks for your cellphone number, to register even if the url titlebar looks normal there is something phishy about the site :)

I would hope that anyone smart enough to set up something that complex would try and find a more productive way to spend their time, but if they don't they shouldn't be shocked to find out that there are lots and lots of people out there trying to make sure they get stopped right away, before they can steal anyones money. I guess either way the world is a little more interesting...

I've tried to help people be able to share information when they were being blocked before, and i've also used a transparent squid proxy to defend the people inside my network from phishing sites and viruses, but it's been a while since i did that. there is just so much i've forgotten that I used to know how to do.

Re:It's not a web site

[DeadChobi]

In high school, a friend of mine was put under emergency suspension for having the nickname "Terrorist." Now, those of us who know a little about Counterstrike will know that that's the name of one of the sides on there. That is where he got the nickname. Did the school ever listen to reason on that? No. Instead they had the police come out to search his house in what is a clear invasion of privacy. All over a nickname. If I were him I would've sued for libel, invasion of privacy, harassment, and anything else I could get my hands on.

I'll say though that it isn't the faculty that does this shit. It's the administration, being increasingly out of touch with the students who aren't there to raise hell. Our administrators wouldn't help us find an acceptable way for a bunch of us to form a club whose purpose was to enable us to stay after school with our friends. Our security guards would selectively enforce policies depending on who it was that they were confronted with.

Public high schools are really fucked in the head, and it's only going to get worse unless a bunch of us who were abused by the current system move to change it. Remember, it's our children that will be going into these places, and unless we do something to stamp this shit out now there will be no end to it.

Re:It's not a web site

[yuri benjamin]

The more I read about this sort of crap, the stronger my resolve - if schools here in New Zealand ever become like american schools I'm definitely going to home school my offspring.

Re:It's not a web site

[aitikin]

There's worse. My friend's brother got a detention because he referenced something covered 3 months earlier.

He started saying "I admire Hitler" and was cut off by a random teacher right there and taken down to the dean's office because he earned himself a detention for that. Not one of the deans would tell his mother why he had a detention, nor what they thought he said, nor even meet with her to explain it. She had to bitch to the principal before she got a meeting out of it. Even then she was told that there was nothing she could say or do to change the outcome so it was a waste of time.

The worst part about it is his teacher had held a class-length discussion on the good things Hitler did. Obviously she followed with the next class being the bad of Hitler. So he basically got punished for what he was tought to do, reference other knowledge, discussions and whatnot.

For the first time in my life I think private school maybe better!

Re:Hey Buddy..

[shumacher]

There's a Blasphemy category? They lumped Blasphemy with Lies? I always suspected filtering was crazy, now I know.

Bah... I have no freaking clue

[technoextreme]

What legal rights, if any, can the school use to ban someone from hosting a website? Furthermore, what rights does the U.S. Government have to censor such websites?

Bah.. There are probably plenty of Supremem Court cases related to this but without being a lawyer it's really hard to draw analogies. The closest argument I can find that seems to make sense is this link to a wikipedia article about public forums.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_forum
PS. If you really want to find out who is right have your friend take the school to court and bring it all the way to the Supreme Court need be. Then you will really know.

It depends

[Sycraft-fu]

As others have noted, you haven't told us the whole story, so it depends on that.

However, even assuming is was real simple, ie kid hosts site, school doesn't like site, school threatens kid, it still depends. What it depends on is if you mean what are they legally allowed to do, or what will they try to do and get away with. Legally they can't deny graduation for things not related to the school itself. That's why things like random drug test are always targeted at peopel who do extracurricular activities. They can make them consent in that case, but to try and say "you do it or you don't graduate" wouldn't work.

Ok fine, but that doesn't mean they can't TRY to stop him from graduating. They can refuse to issue a diploma, fail him in all his classes, expell him, whatever. When that happens, he then has to fight. If he's in the right he'll win eventually, but the question is one of if it's worth it. Would it be worth potentially putting your life on hold over a website?

So here's what I'd do, depending on the kind of person he is:

Just let it go. Who the fuck cares? Take the site down. If he really wants to put it back up, use a registrar that hides personal information as others suggested and ensure it can't be linked to him. Just give in, it's not a fight worth fighting.

Or, if he's not the give in type, go the revenge route. Your post implies graduation is something happening soon. So leave it alone for now, very soon the school has no say in your lives. When that happens, hit them back. I'm not going to bother listing all the perfectly legal things you could do to give them grief, I'm sure you can figure plenty out.

Now by the way, if the point of this proxy is to circumvent the school's rules on what you are allowed to access, then yes, they can punish you for that. Next time don't be idiots: Create a front site for it, use SSL and don't fucking tell people about it.

Re:It depends

[TubeSteak]

Contrary to what you said Sycraft-fu, we do have the whole story.

The original [proxy] domain was blocked by the censorship software the school uses, and it was changed a few times to get around this.

Translation: Someone(s) accessed the proxy from school, the school blocked the domain name, the proxy owner started playing cat & mouse with the domain name.

Someone(s) were circumventing the "censorship" (how is filtering boobies, at school, censorship?) software and the school wanted it stopped.

What the school did is emminently reasonable. The owner of the proxy (a student) undoubtedly signed an Acceptable Use Policy (AUP) stating that they wouldn't even try to circumvent school filtering software. That's all the school needs to fuck with his graduation.

The fact that the kid didn't get smacked down the first time (or the second time) that he got caught suggests to me that the IT people were quite willing to let it go. On top of that, the school admin don't want to keep the kid from graduating, they just want him to stop.

I'm not sure how legit it is to force the kid to take the proxy down, but arguably (and realisticly), requiring that the proxy be taken down seems like the only way to guarantee compliance. (Why they didn't blacklist the proxy IP, we don't know)

Conclusion: Take it down & be glad they aren't slapping him around for the rule(s) he broke. And if you're going to do something illegal about it, do it while it's still on your juvenile record.

Re:It depends

[Sycraft-fu]

No, we don't have the full story. You are inferring what happened. I infer the same thing, but that's assuming facts not stated.

Re:It depends

[TubeSteak]

You are inferring what happened. I infer the same thing, but that's assuming facts not stated.

Which facts am I assuming?

Re:It depends

[Trahloc]

1) That he signed a usage agreement.
2) That the agreement specifically states that circumventing the filters is against the agreement.
3) That the agreement, if signed, states that not only can they revoke his right to internet usage (the logical penalty for non-illegal use ... myspace isn't illegal, just against policy) but also his right to graduate, something tax payer dollars have been paying for roughly 12 years to occur.

None of those were stated in the article, which is why he said you "assumed" them. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Assume first definition.

Someone(s) were circumventing the "censorship" (how is filtering boobies, at school, censorship?) software and the school wanted it stopped.

Censorship is the systematic use of group power to broadly control freedom of speech and expression, largely in regard to secretive matters. Sanitization (cleaning or decontamination) and whitewashing (from whitewash) are almost interchangeable terms that refer to particular acts or campaigns of censorship or omission which seek to "clean up" the portrayal of particular issues and facts which are already known, but which may conflict with a presented point of view. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

I think that blocking boobies would be censorship then. ;)

Personally I hate filtering software ... http://www.imminst.org/ is blocked by WebSense and that just pisses me off.

Re:It depends

[stinerman]

What the school did is emminently reasonable.

I disagree.

If he made the proxy in order to get around the school's filters, then he (and students who used the proxy) should suffer the penalty laid out in the school's acceptable use contract. If he simply made the proxy for any othe reason, then there should be no penalty whatsoever, lest we allow the schools to dictate what students can and can't do in their private time.

Now, if he was changing the domain name after the school caught on, that would seem to indicate that the proxy was for circumventing school's filters, but they'll still have to prove that in court.

Re:It depends

[Trahloc]

Doh, pie in my face, he used the word Infer you used assume, ah well. ;) Close enough meanings.

Re:It depends

[TubeSteak]

I'll concede the point about the AUP

The school policy http://wakefieldhs.net/academics/media/aup.php doesn't say anything about their filtering software.

Looking at their Violation Chart
http://wakefieldhs.net/academics/media/AUPviolatio nchart.php
suggests the school could have gone ahead and suspended him for a very long time based on his existing actions.

It's more than likely they could have derailed his graduation no matter what.

Re:It depends

[Antony-Kyre]

You have the basis of it. If he did sign or agree to something, then the school is in the right. If he did not sign or agree to something, then he is in the right.

If anything, the school should go after the students accessing the material the school doesn't allow. Imagine all those students getting suspended. Yeah, that will make the person very unpopular for providing the proxy in the first place.

How can they keep you from graduating?!

[bergeron76]

More importantly, how can a High School keep you from graduating if you're not breaking the law?

If you've completed your core requirements, they can't stop you from graduating...

Re:How can they keep you from graduating?!

[Skapare]

If you stupidly signed that little piece of paper in which you agree not to do certain things (for which there is no law against, otherwise they wouldn't need this piece of paper to be signed) under penalty of not graduating, then yes, they can. So just don't sign it. Then they have nothing but what the law requires or prohibits of you or them. So just obey they law after you refuse to sign the paper and thus you give them no basis to deny you an education or to graduate if you complete the requirements to graduate. And if they try to pressure you with false threats of "we can prevent you from graduating" just cover your ears, close your eyes, jump up and down, and chant "no child left behind ... no child left behind ...". They hate that.

Re:How can they keep you from graduating?!

[LordVader717]

I don't know the details of the US education system, but a contract signed with illegal conditions, it is invalid. So, if a school can't stop you from graduating if you don't sign (and have a right for education or whatever), they can't stop you if you did.

Re:How can they keep you from graduating?!

[Descalzo]

That assumes that the only requirements for graduation are core requirements. Might there not be others? How many of us actually sat down and looked at exactly what it is we need to graduate? Perhaps my school counselor only talked to us about the core requirements because most people have no problem with the non-core requirements.

Local school board is not the U.S. Government

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I don't understand why the actions of a school board has anything to do with the U.S. Government.

Re:Local school board is not the U.S. Government

[Lehk228]

the school board is a direct extension of state government

Re:Local school board is not the U.S. Government

[Jeff DeMaagd]

the school board is a direct extension of state government

To be clear, the "state" that a school board is a "direct extension of", is North Carolina, not the Federal Government of the United States of America.

What are the school's stated policies?

[tacarat]

I don't think the school has much right to say that the student has to take down the proxy server. They would, however, be within their rights to ban accessing proxy servers for the purpose of bypassing system security. They could also enforce monitoring policies and take action based off of what the student was accessing. As an example, downloading porn is still downloading porn, proxy or no. If the student was accessing somthing that "shouldn't" be blocked, then there needs to be a mechanism for auditing the censorship list. Restricting access can be a tricky thing to defend. Personally, I think they need to have all users agree that the use of web access at school be for school related issues, and that there should be people appointed to override the system settings as needed (and update the settings). By ensuring that the system is used for sanctioned use rather than personal, a school can better manage their (undoubtedly limited) resources. Every kid screwing off on a system is another kid not able to do research or utilize tutoring software. Every dollar spent to protect against inside hackers is a not spent on new classrooms, teacher training or food programs.

Could our public schools use help with their handling of IT resources? Yes. But rebellious teenage students have as much to do with their issues as non-computer literate staffers.

Either way the school is acting as parent

[TheStonepedo]

Being proud to have attended a prestigious private school is ok I suppose. Thinking private schools are worth the cost is ok too. Saying you like them better for "MANY" reasons makes you sound like you'd rather the public not be educated the same as you. Public education allows (most of) our country to function at or above the level of a 16-year old pupil who has attended some 10 years of school.

On topic, however, US schools in addition to educating act as a day care of sorts for mostly minors. They are liable for the students' physical and mental well-being during school hours. Even if a few students are 18 years old or more, the school is required to protect the rest of the students from information deemed illegal for minors. If the intent of the proxy was to circumvent a firewall blocking websites on the topics of pornography and tobacco then the guy who ran the proxy was encouraging illegal actions. If the proxy allowed access to time-wasting websites such as homestar runner or myspace then he was probably circumventing school rules that tried to protect the students' best interests and have them use computers for educational purposes. While somewhat put-off by the fact that I was unable to download music illegally or chat on IRC or set the school computer's desktop background to nude pictures of girls with big floppy titties, I understand that there were valid reasons for preventing such actions.

Re:Either way the school is acting as parent

[hahafaha]

Yes, but the question is not whether or not the school can block the proxy server. It is whether or not they can threaten him for not taking it down. I say no, because (I'm assuming) he did it someplace outside of the school's reach.

Re:Even a public school . . .

[swimin]

Ummmmm .... Since when does only strictly political speech get the protection of the first amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

While that doesn't specifically say that states/local governments/schools must be held to this, the Fourteenth Amendment does:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I think it's pretty clear that the Constition specifically says that the government can't force the end of someone saying something bad about them (ie: a website saying bad things about the faculty).

School rules have little to do with laws

[TheStonepedo]

Attendance is not a law, but there are in-house punishments for skipping class or being tardy. While detention makes sense and suspension for class-skipping definitely doesn't, that is not my point. You cannot graduate from many schools if you miss too many days of school. If you're over the age of 18 and enrolled in high school you will not be arrested if caught skipping school, but you will be kept from graduating if you do so often enough.

They have no right.

[delirium of disorder]

Public schools should not use in school punishments for actions one takes outside of school. However, American school boards don't care much for the constitution. Administration views anyone who fights censorship and helps kids learn freely as more threatening then any violent offender. Your fried is lucky he wasn't expelled for running a proxy like I was. People concerned with these issues should get involved with peacefire.

Re:They have no right.

[Jesus_666]

Hmm. If matters are that bad in American schools maybe the students should start employing cryptography - maybe by communicating via encrypted files or, more low-tech, exchange slips of paper with messages encrypted using a simple to remember cipher. Another way of keeping the messages secure could be the use of a non-standard alphabet, maybe a variant of the Alphabetum Maldeorum.

If the teachers don't trust the students enough to let them speak freely then ahy should the students trust the teachers enough to let them understand what's being said?

Re:They have no right.

[chazzf]

The absence of the mod (-1, Incorrect) remains a consistent source of frustration. I suspect the main reason this individual is in hot water is the rampant abuse of his school's Acceptable Use Policy. This isn't a free-speech issue, it's a network-usage issue. Unless you think all AUPs are worthless and should be ignored.

Re:They have no right.

[paeanblack]

Public schools should not use in school punishments for actions one takes outside of school. However, American school boards don't care much for the constitution.

You mean the Constitution written by folks accustomed to and accepting of corporal punishment for trivial schoolkid hijinks? The Founding Fathers would likely be quite surprised at the extreme leniency of modern schools.

Apparently this school board feels they have failed their task of instructing this student how not to be an ass. Not graduating this kid who is so woefully unprepared for the world is the least they can do. The student should be grateful the administration is exercising sufficient due diligence on his behalf instead of rubber-stamping his papers and turning him loose.

As far as I know...

[hahafaha]

As far as I know, the school can decide what network traffic is allowed within their own network. They can block whatever they want, and they can punish people for breaking the policy for using the network. Thus (as someone else mentioned), if they are downloading pr0n, even using a proxy, they are still downloading pr0n.

However, it seems to me that the issue is that the school does not want the kid to have the proxy, period. Assuming he set it up and maintains it outside of school, they have no right to do that. They can punish him for using it, and they can punish others for using it, but they cannot punish him for keeping it.

My personal suggestion is to ignore the threats for a while. The school knows perfectly well that they can't do what they're doing, but they're hoping that the kid does not. Wait until graduation time is too close for comfort. If they are still serious, then sue them. Or at least threaten to sue them. There is no way that they can win.

Graduation threats are like bogus patents....

[RingDev]

they are only as good as the legal battle that ensues.

Can a public school force a student to shut down a web site (even a site designed to circumvent the school's security)? No. Can the student be expelled for violating the school's computer use agreement? Yes.

If the school says shut it down or you won't graduate, the answer is to sue. The only reason why that "we won't let you graduate" arguement holds any weight is because students and their parents allow it to. Of course, challanging a school on that can get messy. If you remove their ability to threaten graduation, the only tools they have left (the correct ones!) are suspention and expulsion.

I got busted in high school also, with two of my friends. This was back in '95 or '96. To make matters worse, my father was the IT director for the school district. Luckily, I had a chance to clean up my tracks a bit prior to being busted (my friends were busted earlier in the day, and as I'm sure you are aware, news travels fast in HS). Both of them were suspended from school for a few days and we all lost our network access for the rest of the school year. We had to work on laptops or independant work stations the rest of the year.

So in short, he can keep his site, but he has to face the concequences of his actions. If the school makes a deal with him, shut down the site and we will drop any threat of non-graduation or expulsion, I'd say take it.

-Rick

Why Hello

[ThomasCJohnson]

What a surprise this is! I am one of several students that work on the wakefieldhs website, and I've known about this whole situation for a while. Frankly, I think it's the school's fault for not buying up .org, .com, etc. There are plenty of other proxy servers; this kid is just being punished because the administration can punish him. Also, what do you think of the website? We put a lot of time and effort into it.

Re:Why Hello

[Aladrin]

You seriously think it's the school's fault? They failed to 'buy up .org, .com, etc.' ?? Do you KNOW how many domain names are available out there?

When the school says 'You need to stop violating our school policy. You need to stop helping others violate our school policy.' I think maybe you need to do what they say. It doesn't matter WHERE the initial action is done, the proxy is being used AT the school. The simplest way would have been to STOP telling other students about the site. They didn't magically find it after it had been moved. They were told about it.

I think you need to stop and remember why you are in school. It's not to make friends or buck the system. It's to learn enough to get a decent job and not work at McD's the rest of your life.

I hosted a proxy server for school use only...

[nxtw]

It was pretty obvious that it existed only for the use of students of my high school. It was a CGIProxy running over HTTPS (so it was harder for them to use their usual filtering technique with SmartFilter). It was restricted so that only users from the school's IP address could use it (they used NAT). In its most popular/stable year, it lasted from September until March before the IP was blocked. I changed the IP address & DNS entry (I had a /29), and that lasted for about a month. At that point, I decided not to have the other 3 IP addresses blocked, and put a site telling people to give me money if they wanted the site back (so I could buy another block of IP addresses). Of course, no one cared.

I'm sure that the administration had known about it and would have found out who made it if they had spent thirty minutes asking about it -- it was popular to the point when people would try to tell me about it and asked if I knew who made it. I never really used the site myself, and never really advertised the fact that I ran it -- just told people about it as if I'd found it on the Internet. However, some people did know it was my site (including one teacher, who might've covered for me). I never lied about it to anyone -- I just didn't give any details unless asked. The site's popularity started really growing around January -- the server bandwidth graphs were a mirror image. At its peak, usage was close to 6MBit/sec. Most of the traffic was going to Myspace. (Had I blocked Myspace, the site would probably not have been so popular and wouldn't have been blocked.)

Oddly enough, the address shows up on Google, as a reply to some blog post about public proxies.

Our school's administration doesn't seem stupid when it comes to the Internet -- a couple years ago, there was an "anti-band" website. The website had many postings that would be very offensive to the band directors, as well as lots of swearing. A few students were suspended for accessing and posting guestbook entries on the site from school (they were given an alternative option to quit band). Those that ran the site were not punished at all, as they had broken no rules. They did, however, threaten in private to the site's creators to take away the next band Disney World trip if the site was not taken down. (It was down the next day.)

Re:I hosted a proxy server for school use only...

[strredwolf]

They did, however, threaten in private to the site's creators to take away the next band Disney World trip if the site was not taken down. (It was down the next day.)

That puts the school in a very legal grey area. I very much suggest consulting a lawyer.

Re:I hosted a proxy server for school use only...

[nxtw]

Well, this happened a few years ago... ...and how is it a grey area? The school band program is not required to take a trip to Disney World. They said they were going to
cancel the trip completely if the website wasn't taken down. Since the next trip was still 2 or 3 years away at that time, the next trip was not announced, planned, scheduled, or booked in any way. I doubt the Disney trip was codified by the school board or anything like that, so I don't see why the band directors would be obligated to organize the trip at all. I think they were right in saying that if the site wasn't taking down, they'd cancel (in other words, not organize) the next Disney trip. It wouldn't be fair to most of the band members, but the district and its employees are not obligated to be fair.

graduation vs. diploma

[alshithead]

As far as I know any public/private school can prevent you from attending graduation for any infraction. Preventing you from actually receiving a diploma is another story entirely. Arguably, the infraction in this case could be "conspiracy" to violate school rules.

Re:graduation vs. diploma

[Skapare]

This actually happened at my high school. Three students were denied access to the graduation ceremonies for having been caught smoking on school grounds the week before. They got their diplomas mailed to them a few days later, just like I did (I actually missed it because of illness, but I really didn't care).

Grow up

[fermion]

First, public shool is paid for by public dollars for the express purpose of encouraging students to engage in activities that build the mind of said student. As such there are experiences that are considered to be of of a net benifit to the student, and therefore are encouraged, or at least allowed, and activities that are of little or no net benift, and therefore are prohbited. For instance, socialization is of a benifit to student, therefore social intercourse is allowed and encouraged. OTOH, sexual incourse is not so schools do not provide bedroom for student to penetrate each other, and in fact try to discourage such acts.

The end result of this is that not everything is allowed at school because not everything satisfies the constraints placed on the schol by the state and federal government. On of the consequences is that the internet is censored, which I believe is defensable, as opposed to censorship at the library which is not.

Second, consider this analogy. A student creates a secret location in an apparently disused locker to stash his personal supply of porno which he shares with a select group. A student outside the group finds out about the stash, and begins to not only use it for stashing porno, but do drug drops. The school finds out, and shuts down the drop. The student then forms another location, and again lets the secret out. Eventually the student is told to stop building drops or not graduate. Most would say this is a reasonable request.

Here is the issue with this kid. First, the proxy could only be construed as an attempt to circumvent school policy, which the kid agreed to follow by attending the school, and the parents agreed to support by enrolling the kid. As alluded to other posts, if the policies were a big problem, the kid could find a more accomodating private school.

It also sounds like the school reacted reasonably, until the student got greedy and started blabbing about the fact that he could surf porno, or whatever, at the school. Now, teens are the really jelous type and hate it when someone get extra rights. They will then do everything in thier power to either get those rights themselves, or make sure no ne has them. What probably happened in this case is the greedy crimanal, uh student, probably started giving other acess, which lead to everyone knowing, which lead to the shut down.

You see the school knows that students will test limits, and the school needs enforce them. This is normal, and nobody is the bad guy. The student is exersising creativity, the school is trying to educate the best it can. So the school gave a warning. The kid ignored it. The school gave another warning, tried to discourage the behavior, and the kid continued to ignore it. This is what is called insurbordination, and can get you fired from a job, with a bad reccomendation, and therefore schools try to teach kids not to engage in it, but as gently as possibe. At some point, however, the kid is just being mean and greedy and the discipline escalates. Such is life.

So, lets be clear. Schools are there for education, and necesarily limit what is allowed on campus. Somethings are tolerated because even if they are disruptive they have a net benifit. Many things are tolerated becasuse no one knows. A student could have cigarettes or even a gun as long as he or she did not brag about it.

In this case the student not only brought a gun to school but continued to do so even when told not to. The student not only brought a gun, but showed it to everyone and declared that it was a free speech right. Certainly the NRA would support the kid in that right, but most others would not.

Leaving the world of hyperbole, here is the deal. The school is not telling a student not to run a website. The school is merely moderating the disruption to the school day so that education can be had. For instance, the school might want students to use the internet to plagerise papers rather than surfing for porno. If this website is so critical

Re:Grow up

[hahafaha]

The question is not whether or not the school can block the website. They have full right to do that, and this is largely not disputed. What *is* disputed, is whether or not they can threaten him for running the proxy while not in school. The anwer is no, as far as I know, because he runs it outside of the school's power. Thus, while he is outside of the school's power, the fact that he is a student is irrelevant. It would be the same as them threatening a random person who has nothing to do with the school, but who runs a proxy server.

I do not think that they can keep him for graduating due to running a proxy server outside of school. They have no control there. What they can do is make an ammendment to their Acceptable Network Use Policy, saying that you cannot run proxy servers, and make everybody sign them.

Re:Grow up

[Anonymous Coward]

Read this part of the article carefully.

It ran for a few months, and others at our school found out about it. The original domain was blocked by the censorship software the school uses, and it was changed a few times to get around this

They did not initialy ask the student to stop the website, they merely blocked it, which you say they have the full right to do. Only after he engaged in premeadiated. willful, and repeated attempted to circumvent the filtering did the school escalate the consequences tha put his diploma in danger.

I don't know about you, but I think the school was being really cool. They could have done all sorts of things like expellng him for repeated misuse of school equipment or disruption of the classroom. They probably could have sent him to a month in some jail school, but they tried to reason with the kid. The kid was just too dense. So what hapens is that dense kids don't get diploma. Oh well, too bad, so sad. But this is not about running a website. This is about the school blocking a site, asking a student to behave, and the student refuseing to behave. Remember, no one initially asks the student to modify behaviour outside of school. If the kid has not changed domain names in an effort to circumvent the school filters, we cannot assume that their would have been any further actions.

If it were me, at this point I would not threaten the kids diploma. I would document the case and send it to federal court. I agree in most cases such action is contraindicated, but if a student is presistantly circumventing security measures, it is a defensible action.

Re:Grow up

[Chowderbags]

I severely doubt that they can do that, because that is an extension of school power outside of school grounds. They couldn't make that ammendment any more than they could make an ammendment to their policy stating that you have to wear a tutu every Saturday night.

It's a matter of overreaching their authority. The school has a say on school grounds and on school related activities (i.e. field trips and bus rides home). The school does not have authority over what a kid does in their house. If the kid is running anything illegal (which he isn't), then it's the duty of the police, and not the school. If the parents of the kid don't have a problem with it, then how can the school step in and stop it? They can't.

Re:Grow up

[rhythmx]

As a matter of legality, (IANAL, etc..) the school has no power whatsoever to shut down any server that does not run on their own network. They also do not have the power to keep the student from hosting the server even if he signs a Acceptable Use Policy that says exactly that, because it is not a use of the school's network to do so. What they do have the power to do, however, is monitor his network usage to determine if he was using it as a means to cirumvent the in-place network restrictions. I'm guessing that probably he was. In that case they probably already have an AUP that he signed that says how they can punish him.

As a matter of practcality, the network restrictions that schools (and businesses) place on their network users can commonly be too extreme and disabling to advanced geeks. If you need you access, a proxy is a very good way because they are a grey area of sorts in terms of security. HTTP has been jokingly refered to as UFBP (Universal Firewall Bypass Protocol.)

At my previous job I found that their HTTP proxy server allowed SSH conections through it as long as the remote SSH daemon was listening on port 443. This allowed me access to my personal email, AIM, IRC, my files, and really anything considering SSH port forwarding but I never used it for anything malicious or perverted. I'm positive that they didn't mean to allow that but they (mis)configured it to allow it and nothing I signed disallowed it.

Anyway, the key thing is that if you need that access, don't tell anyone else how to get it. They'll likely never find out if you keep your secret (esp if you use SSL), and if they do they can really only ask you to stop because bouncing traffic is a grey area in most AUP contracts. You may gain popularity and/or cool points by giving out access to your goofy friends, but you will get shut down.

Conspiracy

[zzatz]

A student has the right to do as he pleases with his own property outside of school. The school has the right to control the use of school property, setting policies on computer and network use. The school not only has a right to control use of their computers, but is obliged by law to control such use. They're dealing with minors, and minors must be supervised, in person or by technical means.

The school may not have any grounds for shutting down the student's computer. But if he set up a proxy to violate the school's policies for the use of the school's computers, then they certainly can revoke his school account. If he told other students about his proxy and allowed them to use it, then he has conspired to violate school policies, and all of the students involved should lose their accounts. You should be aware that conspiracy to commit a crime almost always carries a heavier penalty than the crime itself.

Now, you are talking about violated school rules, not laws. But the principle applies; conspiracy to violate school policies and rules will carry a stiffer punishment. The proxy may be private property and beyond school control, but the school has a legitimate interest in how the school's computers are used, and using a private proxy with school computers is no longer a purely private matter. Engaging in a conspiracy to violate school policies could well result in suspension, and possibly expulsion.

Welcome to the real world. When you get a job, if you violate company policies, you may be fired. Keep your private life separated from your work and school life. Just because you have an account doesn't mean you own that account. Anything on a work computer belongs to the company, and is NOT private. Get and use a personal Internet access account and use it for all personal email and downloading. The second that you download porn using a company computer, the company is liable for tolerating a sexually harrassing work environment - unless they fire your ass, which they will. The second that you download music or software using the company network, the company is liable to copyright infringement. Keep your music on your own devices, such as CDs or flash players, and don't EVER copy it to a company hard drive or network.

Don't put people into a position where smacking you down is a smaller problem than letting you continue. The school MUST control use of school computers, and failing to do so will create far larger problems than suspending a student. Firing an employee for violating company policies is far easier than settling harrassment or copyright infringement lawsuits. When you shit on people, don't be surprised when it comes right back at you. If you don't like surprises, think about the effect of your actions on other people before you act.

Re:Conspiracy

[zzatz]

Yes, children are required by law to attend school. And schools should consider their policies carefully.

Violating those policies also deserves careful thought. Enabling others to violate those policies deserves careful thought.

The student has every right to run a personal web site, and say what he wishes on it. Criticism of school policies on a private site is a matter of free speech. Violating school policies takes place on school property, using school resources, and is not a matter of free speech. The fact that the student may be required to attend school does not mean that he can do whatever he wishes with school computers.

He's not in trouble for running a proxy. He's in trouble for using it from school computers, and helping other students use it from school computers.

When I was young, I helped a friend take apart padlocks and figure how they worked. We figured out that there was a master key. All of this happened at his home, and would have gone without notice. However, he took the master key to school and opened the locker of another student. That happened at school, and violated school rules. May well have been against the law, too. He was suspended for what he did at school. I, however, was suspended for what I did at his home. I didn't open any lockers, or have a master key. Unfair? I did nothing wrong at school. He did. But I helped him do it, even though my help happened away from school. I never thought he would open other lockers, but I helped make it possible, so when he did, it was as if I had done it. I was part of a conspiracy to commit a crime.

I was curious, and wanted to understand locks. I had no interest in opening other student's lockers. But when my friend broke school rules by using a key that I had helped him make, I became part of his crime. I learned about locks, but the important lesson was about conspiracy. The important lesson was that when I acted with others in a group effort, then I was responsible for any and all of the actions of the group. I learned that thinking about how my actions affected me was not enough, that I needed to think about how others would respond to my actions. I learned that helping others do stupid things meant that I was acting as stupidly as they were.

I hope that this student has learned the right lessons. If you think that school policies are flawed, say so. You have the right to publish your thoughts, using your own resources. The school, however, has the right to control how school resources are used. Don't violate policies unless you are willing to pay the price. Helping others violate policies is the same as violating them yourself. Taking a moral stand means being willing to pay the price.

Re:Conspiracy

[zzatz]

Demanding sex acts from a subordinate is harrassment. Demanding that a subordinate look at pictures of sex acts is, too.

It isn't harrassment when you are alone in your locked office looking at porn. It probably isn't what you being paid to do, unless you work for Larry Flynt. Porn just isn't part of most people's jobs.

The easy way for companies to prevent harrassment through the use of sexually oriented materials is to ban all sexually oriented materials. Just as they probably ban alcohol, weapons, and illegal drugs from company premises. The business has no need for those things, and banning them provides a legal defense against lawsuits arising from their misuse by employees or others on company property.

Link to the proxy site

[GraffitiKnight]

The proxy site can be found hereand here. It doesn't really hint as to what they were using it for, but my guess is porn, P2P, or Facebook/MySpace/etc. It might also have to do with the domain name itself being an issue.

Re:Link to the proxy site

[ThomasCJohnson]

I used it to read boing boing and other sites that are blocked for idiotic reasons. The negative connotation of CGI proxies isn't really fair.

Here's a little help

[Kohath]

When you want to get away with something like this, there's one thing you can do that will greatly increase the change you'll succeed:

Don't tell anyone about it.

here's your answer

[alizard]

I don't understand why the actions of a school board has anything to do with the U.S. Government.

Because they accept Federal funding, mainly, though they are subject to other Federal laws by virtue of being an educational institution.

Re:here's your answer

[Jeff DeMaagd]

because they accept Federal funding

Federal funding of local schools is so small that it's laughable, it is the state that foots pretty much all of the bill. The majority of the control of a school district is usually very local, under the oversight of the particular state (North Carolina).

I'm surprised...

[cpsc2005]

When I went to my mom's elementary school to help her move stuff out at the end of the year, I used her computer for the internet. I wanted to pop on over to gmail because I was working on an interview for a job. I loaded IE and got presented with some log in screen. I then pulled out my jump drive, stuck it in, and loaded Portable Firefox. I got all the webaccess I wanted, no proxy, no login screen, and a browser I actually knew how to use.

It's good to know the safety of the kids in my mom's school district is thwarted by using something else than IE.

Re:I'm surprised...

[VGPowerlord]

If by "no proxy" you mean over port 80, your mom's school district needs to learn what a transparent proxy is and how to set one up.

The best thing to do

[mikesd81]

is keep the proxy down, for the rest of the year watch your p's and q's graudate, and forget it ever happened. If they're not going to put it on your record then you should be okay for college too. BUT, if you do to go to college, I wouldn't try this shit there. It's a little more serious there where it can and will haunt you the rest of your career life.

Oh and the paypal link on the site. That's nice.

mod parent down

[alizard]

There isn't any insight here, just a semi-literate mess that isn't worth the trouble to deconstruct.

Using a "bringing a gun to school" analogy for an action that didn't take place on campus... whoever modded this up should apologize to the community for stupidity.

"Fermion", you should devote your efforts to getting an education for yourself from whatever middle school you are attending and not commenting on subjects you don't appear to know anything about based on your post.

Re:Even a public school . . .

[Skapare]

There's a difference between what the law says, and what they ask students to sign an agreement for. If they law specifically prohibited certain actions, or authorized the school to prohibit them, they wouldn't need to get students to sign the paper to agree to not do those certain actions. Sure, if you do something that is illegal, and get caught, you're in trouble. And if it has something to do with the school, you can be in trouble with the school, too. If you're web site is just being critical of the school, administrators, janitor, faculty, or even other students, I think that is free speech. I also believe that extends to insulting. There are certain protections in the law with regard to libel, and speech intended to incite something wrong, so be careful. And of course don't use any school property or resources to do it, no matter how legal it is for you to do it at home.

Re:Even a public school . . .

[Skapare]

There's also this little piece that doesn't mention anything about any exceptions for schools or people under the age of 18:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Now think again if you believe the law can't make certain exceptions.

Deja Vu....

[ShyGuy91284]

I had a friend in HS who also hosted a proxy. Before he was in my school, I used to use I think diebess or bessswatter proxy or something like that to get past the bess web content blocker (damn bitch *bess's logo is a dog*). I told him about it, he put one up for himself, and gave me the address he was using so I could use it too since I gave him the idea.

Why not ask someone who knows?

[EvilMagnus]

Find a lawyer, file a lawsuit and find out.

Chances are the District will settle for enough money for you to pay for college. As far as I know, schools have very little say in what you do when you're not at school, so long as it's not illegal.

Now, they could probably say "don't go to that proxy during school hours, from school computers," and they'd probably be on good ground. But to ask you to take the proxy down or not graduate? Ground less stable, methinks.

But as I said; find a lawyer, file suit, find out. Let us know how it goes!

The Insiders Story

[Opsive]

I figured that since I was the previous lead webmaster for WakefieldHS.net (just graduated today!) and know (almost) the whole story behind this, I have to comment.

I first saw the proxy that WakefieldHS-students is referring to over a month ago. In order to use the proxy you had to create an account. I never actually used the proxy, but I saw numerous people using it. The most viewed site by far was Myspace, I never did see anybody looking at porn on it but it probably happened.

Anyways, after it got to the point that practically everybody in the school knew about it, I asked an administrator about it and if they were going to do anything about it. When I asked that administrator about it I wasn't sure if they had heard of the proxy yet or not, but they had, and one of them even had an account. Well, at that time, they where just going to let it go. It hadn't got to the out of control point yet. A couple of weeks ago an administrator talked to me saying that they were going to block it, and if I could see any reason not to block it. So of course, I didn't see any reason not to block it and it was blocked within the hour.

Since then, I didn't hear anything about it, I wasn't expecting to. But then one of the other webmasters of WakefieldHS.net emailed me a link to this article. I don't know anymore of the rest of the story than what was posted here and what was on wakefieldhs.org. But I do know that the person who was running the proxy was a senior and he graduated today (I don't know him personally, but he was listed as a graduate).

So that's the story, hope it clears some things up.

Same Situation: Use a Disclaimer

[wsidegangstarr]

I myself own a website which features a proxy and am a highschool student. In order to prevent legal actions and/or other reprocussions from my school, I used a disclaimer. My disclaimer reads as follows:

By using this service, you signify agreement to the following terms and conditions. You, the user, take all responsibility for any and all use and/or abuse/misuse of the service. By agreeing to these terms, you release wsidegangstarr.be, the webmaster, admin, staff, and owner of any and all liability that might result from improper use of the service. If you work for, or are in any way affiliated with any school corperation, with the exception of students, you must leave now. You will not use the service for any illegal activies, and take all responsibility for your actions. Wsidegangstarr.be does not condone use of this service for tunneling through content monitoring technologies or software. Click PROCEED to accept the terms and continue or you must leave this page

Then enable hotlink protection for the page which has the disclaimer (assuming it's cgiproxy or phproxy). Remove all other links to the proxy except the "PROCEED" button. This ensures that users must accept the agreement to use your proxy.

As far as I know, the school can only take actions against those who use the proxy at school. The disclaimer clearly states that use to bypass content filters is not condoned. If all else fails, I could allow you and you friends to use my site. Then you wouldn't have any liability at all. If you need further information or help, contact me.

Awww, rich kid busted for using proxy, how sad.

[Associate]

Couldn't wait to get home to update your myspace account?
They blocked Fark where I work for pornographic reasons. You know what I do? I wait til I get home.
Face it. You got caught. You should have given up the first time. Repeatedly moving it just makes you look guilty. Guilty of what? Not running a proxy. Guilty of using school resources inappropriately. See http://www.wcpss.net/Technology/pdf/6446.pdf I think anyone who reads it will agree that regarless of their support of the rules or lack there of, you did in fact break the rules. Better you learn now at an early age there are consequences for your actions. You can't disregard rules you don't like and expect nothing negative to happen to you. Wait until you get to college. No one there will give a rats ass about you. You will be expected to do things you don't like. When you fail, you fail you, not some well meaning underpaid teacher. Best thing you could do right now is admit to your mistake and suck up the consequences.

Re:Awww, rich kid busted for using proxy, how sad.

[pembo13]

How do you know he is reach? And how does his financial status come into play?

Re:Awww, rich kid busted for using proxy, how sad.

[oldosadmin]

Woo! Wake County FTW!

Re:Awww, rich kid busted for using proxy, how sad.

[Associate]

I live in Wake county. Wakefield is one of the super rich area of the county. And while I'm sure there are some relatively poor students there, the odds of them having access to the resources to set up a proxy is unlikely. Besides, poor people know when to give up. Rich people looking to get away with petty things know when to sue.

Re:Awww, rich kid busted for using proxy, how sad.

[Teach]

They blocked Fark where I work for pornographic reasons. You know what I do? I wait til I get home.

You know what's even worse? I'm a public school teacher, and they block Slashdot at my school because it's a "message board". You know what I do? Read reddit and (gasp!) sometimes Digg (neither of which are blocked... yet) during my conference period, and catch up on Slashdot when I get home. I can't even check my personal email from school. BFD.

Let's all repeat after me, class: blocking your access to certain websites -- whether at school, at work, or even by your ISP -- is not censorship. Censorship has a narrower definition than the average high school kid thinks.

Re:Awww, rich kid busted for using proxy, how sad.

[AliasN]

Nice. All poor people use drugs, and can't/don't want to stop. Yeah, there are no other reasons for them being poor. *sarcasm*

doesn't matter whether a school district

[alizard]

accepts 10 cents or $10 billion, Federal money = Federal control. However, the average district gets more than 10 cents.

Although federal funding constitutes roughly seven percent of a school districts budget, it is needed to fund increased costs for services that are attributable to rising student enrollment and inflation. A primary concern regarding federal funding for education programs appropriated by Congress each year is that the actual amounts fall below what has been designated, or authorized, under laws such as the Individuals With Disabilities Education Act (IDEA).. . ."

Laughable? You go tell a school board at a meeting that they really don't need 7% of their budget. While you might get laughter as a response, they aren't going to be laughing with you, they'll be laughing at you.

Re:Same Situation: Use a Disclaimer

[Farmer Tim]

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/02/00 23208

Re:Same Situation: Use a Disclaimer

[wsidegangstarr]

Actually, by agreeing to a license, you certify your compliance to it. The biggest goal of the disclaimer is to make sure the users have in some way accepted responsibility for their actions. With this being the case, the school can't try to discipline you for others using the service. They may still try to punish you for running the site, but they can't lay blame on you for the content accessed through they site by another student.

Contact the ACLU

[DerKlempner]

Fifteen years ago, my best friend was in a similar situation. Two weeks until graduation and a suspension rolls in for distributing our homemade "newspaper." The suspension was a temporary punishment while the school tried to start expulsion hearings based on the fact that the school faculty didn't like what was printed in the newspaper. We contacted the ACLU and immediately had a representative at the school's expulsion hearing. The school didn't like to hear an ACLU lawyer telling them how they were going to be sued for denying two constitutional rights of free speech and free press. Three days after the initial suspension, my friend was back in school and went on to graduate.

The events weren't even placed in his school records.

If you think the school is trying to quash the rights of free speech and ideas, then by all means contact your local ACLU representatives. They'll help you fight against the the school's attempts to punish you if it's unconstitutional.

Re:Same Situation: Use a Disclaimer

[Jack Schitt]

Aren't most highschoolers under the age of consent in most areas? Those under the age of consent cannot be held to a contract. Then there's that whole federal court not upholding website click-through contracts... http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/02/00 23208

What the school can and can't do...

[gozar]

1) If they accept e-rate funding, the district is required to have a board approved acceptable use policy, which is signed by the staff, students, and parents. This AUP usually spells out things you are not allowed to do, and are written so that bypassing the filtering would fall under the no hacking policy.

2) Filtering is required by the CIPA.

3) School districts can punish students for things students have done on their own time on their own equipment if it disrupts school activities. For example, if a student puts up a website with negative info about a teacher, but no one goes to it, then the school can't punish the student. If the student puts up negative info about a teacher and everyone in the district is visiting the website during the school day, then the school district can take action.

In this case, if it was disruptive in school, then the district can punish the student, including not allowing them to participate in commencement activities.

Re:Even a public school . . .

[VGPowerlord]

I suggest you re-read the 14th amendment.

OK, done that? Have you noticed that it says "No State shall make or enforce any law..."

In other words, it doesn't stop any school district from coming up with its own policy. It's also why cities can make ordinances banning cursing.

Re:Same Situation: Use a Disclaimer RIGHT ON

[Nom du Keyboard]

I was looking for this article to make the very same point. You found it first!

The Dickhead who wrote the parent feels he can break the rules with impunity because he has a click-through disclaimer. If that worked, everyone sharing P2P files would have this disclaimer appear at the head of their shared files list telling the **AA to fsk off. Would love to be there when he finds out that life really doesn't work that way.

Public Schools are non-public forums

[sweetnjguy29]

So, for example, if you want to protest your child having to go to a biology class on evolution, picketing with signs inside the school is not going to fly. The Principal can force the editor of a school sponsored newspaper to change his editorial. The general rule is that the Public School can take reasonable steps to promote a positive learning environment and enforce discipline relating to those ends. So, banning a privately published student newspaper is unconstitutional, as is forbidding students who have a strict dresscode from wearing arm bands to protest a war.

The issue here is twofold: whether the school can censor the websites that students use and whether the school can prevent a student from working on a private blog from school. I think a school can obviously block pornographic or riske sites, as well as those that they deem to have no educational value. (Not that I would if I were in charge though) It is less than clear whether or not a school can prevent a student from working on a private blog from home (I would hope not). Preventing a student on his/her free time during recess or study hall from writing on a blog? Unclear.

I think blogging should be allowed by students during their free time while they are not in class on school grounds. I seriously doubt that a school would have a problem with a student writing a note in her personal handwritten journal, that she then lets her friends read. Anything that encourages writing should be promoted, IMHO.

Re:WTF

[masterzora]

What? Are we showing off how far in pi we have memorized?

3.14159265358979323

Yeah, I had it out to 42 digits once, but I didn't bother trying to keep it memorized longer than a few hours. Even still, I'm sure somebody's gonna come with at least double that... This is /.

In trouble for HAVING the proxy, or USING it?

[Sloppy]

If he's in trouble for using the school's computers to access the proxy, then it makes sense. The submitter makes it sound like he's in trouble for something he did with his own computer (or a rented colo like Linode, or whatever), though, and obviously it's inappropriate for a school's Acceptable Use Policy to regulate when someone does on their own hardware.

The submitter might be tricking us, though. It sure smells like it. I bet the guy got in trouble for using the proxy from school, rather than for making the proxy available.

One possible "solution" to clear up this confusion, is to make a friend at another school, and have people supply proxies for each other as a trade. If school A's students use a proxy supplied by one of school B's students, then school A is limited to punishing the proxy's users (the people actually violating that school's AUP), rather than the proxy's admin.

Sex Ed

[Sloppy]

For instance, socialization is of a benifit to student, therefore social intercourse is allowed and encouraged. OTOH, sexual incourse is not so schools do not provide bedroom for student to penetrate each other, and in fact try to discourage such acts.

Sez you! Soon after graduating highschool, I was very embarassed by how klutzy I was at unhooking a bra by touch alone (no peeking). No man should be allowed to graduate without at least some sort of training or experience with that.

Be careful doing that.

[frogstar_robot]

I loaded IE and got presented with some log in screen. I then pulled out my jump drive, stuck it in, and loaded Portable Firefox. I got all the webaccess I wanted, no proxy, no login screen, and a browser I actually knew how to use.

You can get caught quite easily if their network admins care to look for that. An assload of http traffic hitting one IP stands out like a sore thumb and is easy to see. If the network in question is using layer 7 filtering or inspection then it gets point and and click easy to find. Encryption won't help you either. An assload of SSL traffic not in use by a staff member likewise stands out.

The danger in assuming you are more clever than the admins is that you could be wrong. Every once in awhile you will come up against one who is every bit as geeky as you are. That geeky admin has an advantage you don't: He can monitor every single packet entering and leaving his network if need be. There are very few things I like more than lowering the boom on 5kr1p7 k1dd13s. Call me Hitler if you want but I throw the book at the little creeps. Some kid finds an unblocked porno site? I really don't care; he's in a bit of trouble but I'm not fussed about it. That is the administration's hangup. Try to hack the network I'm charged with keeping running and I will FRY your little ass.

If you want to do anything you want then pay for your own access and use your own equipment to do it.

Disruption

[nuggz]

School districts can punish students for things students have done on their own time on their own equipment if it disrupts school activities

Unfortunately in many countries there is the right to protest.
I do agree the WTO meetings would go a lot better if there weren't those disruptions.

See what happens when you don't vote, you lose rights. In this case they're removing the rights of the students, well because they can.

commentary

[cl0secall]

I've seen a lot of commentary on the situation, but no real direct answers to the questions posed:

• What legal rights, if any, can the school use to ban someone from hosting a website?
• Furthermore, what rights does the U.S. Government have to censor such websites?

First off, it is important to understand that for the duration of time that you are compelled to attend government schools, you are essentially a slave to society's whim. Technically, activities outside of school fall outside of that school's "jurisdiction", however, this can be worked around by exploiting "loco parentis" or with cooperation from an individual's parents (or the individual if he is of legal age). Cooperation need not be voluntary.

In other words, depending upon the exact situation, the school may not have a legal right to force any type of action, however, they have many tools at their disposal to coerce cooperation. This is how most "they violated my rights" type of issues come up in a school environment.

Second, I think it is well accepted and understood that for the most part, the government has no place telling or commanding anyone to do or not to do any thing. However, once again, the government has tools at their disposal to coerce whatever they desire from whomever they choose.

As far as I'm concerned, discussions about the merits of any disciplinary action are irrelevant and simply distract from the topic at hand.

Google Proxy

[Tama00]

At my school i use the Google proxy, they wont ban it either LoL

Theres two that work, you can translate the page from English to English and it then downloads the page from google.

Or you can use the mobile phone proxy, but that bends everything out of shape.

You can also use IP addresses insted of domain names to access websites!!

Just type google proxy in google for the URLS.