Slashdot Mirror
AT&T Rewrites Privacy Policy
VikingThunder writes "The San Francisco Chronicle reports that AT&T has revamped its privacy policy, in an effort to head off future consumer lawsuits, with changes taking effect this Friday. AT&T is introducing a new policy that gives it more 'latitude' when it comes to sharing your browsing history with government agencies. Notable changes include notification that AT&T will track viewing habits of customers of its new video services Homezone and U-Verse, which is forbidden for cable and satellite companies, as well as explicitly stating that the customer's data belongs to the company: 'While your account information may be personal to you, these records constitute business records that are owned by AT&T. As such, AT&T may disclose such records to protect its legitimate business interests, safeguard others, or respond to legal process.'"
Well, I knew it wasn't going to be long before companies decided to openly admit that playing politics was more important than treating their customers right. Agreed that they had been playing politics in the past *cough* Bush's domestic wiretapping *cough*, but only now are they confirming that and trying to save their behinds from lawsuits like the kind the EFF has filed for unwarranted wiretaps.
This is exactly the treachery that leads to companies going under...You f*ck the consumer, you get f*cked right back.
I say call up your local congressman/woman and tell them that you want the Cable Communications Policy Act of 1984 to include provisions for all methods of distributing content, including IPTV. Also explain to them that your privacy is important to you and that you want them to support as many privacy bills as they can.
Of course, if that doesn't work, just ditch AT&T. I know there is enough competition out there to cripple them. Alas, you might end up paying a bit more, but think of it as the price you pay for privacy, and consumer-friendliness.
Did they also fix the part of the privacy policy to say: "AT&T (a wholly owned subsidiary of the National Security Agency)"
Do privacy polices have any real legal meaning to them? Companies write them, I don't think they'll punish themselves for violating them.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
So how many admins monitor (track) their networks?
...does AT&T hate America?
Anonymous Coward: "This is slashdot. Accuracy is second class citizen here, unlike King Bias."
Slamming your customers used to be the popular move from AT&T, now I guess it's giving away personal data.
I'll just continue my resistance of using ANY AT&T products or services.
"Snatching defeat from the mouth of victory on a daily basis."
if the other telcos started doing the same thing. In the beginning they simply said all their interactions were "classified" with the governement, building a huge smokescreen with which to hide behind. Now they have to deal with lawsuits, and they slip this into their privacy statement to stymie the 'suits. Knowing how telcos really like to avoid such suits I wouldn't be surprised if AT&T has started a fad.
Reminding you once again that any privacy policy that includes the clause that it can be changed at any time with minimal notification and no consent is no privacy policy at all.
(To be fair, the linked policy does have a nod towards "materially different" changes to the privacy policy. But guess who decides what "materially different" is...?)
As such, AT&T may disclose such records to protect its legitimate business interests, safeguard others, or respond to legal process.'"
Don't you see, AT&T is doing this for you, the valued customer. It is in your best interests. Don't you want to be kept safe from the evil0rz criminals?
In Canada, the Privacy Act restricts the ability of corporations to share private information. Admittedly it's not perfect, but it appears to be better than what exists in the United States.
I was shopping for a new ISP this morning, and AT&T lost out only by failing to have a particularly local dialup number.
Can they really legally say, "Welp, even though it's your personal data, we reserve the right to do whatever we want with it if it benefits us or our partners." ?
"Everything worth innovating today will go to court tomorrow."
...with the company formerly known as Cingular, since they're changing the terms of the agreement after the fact?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
The privacy policy clearly states that the National Security Agency, NSA, is a wholly owned subsidiary of AT&T.
"Snatching defeat from the mouth of victory on a daily basis."
Agreed that they had been playing politics in the past *cough* Bush's domestic wiretapping *cough*,
The NSA terrorist surveillance program approved by President Bush is an effective tool for law enforcement to identify and break up terrorist activity before it can metastasize again on these shores and cause 9/11 style death and destruction. A large majority of the American electorate approves this action. By all means write to your representative on this issue. That is the American way. Then take your place on the minority side of the issue while President Bush kicks the bloody hell out of radical islam.
an ill wind that blows no good
The best way to force AT&T to change their game is to vote with your all-mighty dollar. A single dollar-voting customer is worth any number of petitions and angry letters.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
F*** them. I simply will not ever do business with any company tied to Yahoo since they wiped out my 7 year e-mail account for no reason whatsoever. They simply cannot be trusted. Period.
We use AT&T to host our datacenter. I bet a lot of other companies (both their customers who are being overcharged, and their competitors) are interested in the price we pay / discounts we were offered. Can I rewrite our privacy policy and publish those?
That does it. I'm sending back my "AT&T Best Friends Forever" ring.
If this is true, excellent opportunity for me to switch to a better service and avoid the $200 rape
With my bride and I both using cell phones as our primary line, I've put off canceling them on my POTS line for long distance service. Well no more - the $8USD/month (was $3, but it looks like it jumped up with extra fees) just to have the service is not a lot of cash, but at least I'll get a chance to give AT&T a big old FU and the horse you road in on. The rep had the brass to say this was something to strengthen my 'privacy', then started on a song and dance about September 11th.
For those in the US, 1-800-222-0300 option 6 gets you where you need to go. Expect a 30 minute (or more) wait time.
Fuckers...
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
In most states, actually operating under the terms of a contract, even if it's not signed by any party, gives that contract full force and effect.
If I used AT&T for anything covered by that privacy "policy", I'd sue them for unilaterally changing the terms of the contract without my consent. If I were a lawyer, I'd construct a class of everyone whose contract they're breaching.
Unless the old privacy policy says "AT&T can unilaterally change any terms of this policy without notice at any time", in which case I'd be a fool to think it was anything but an invitation to screw me whenever they want.
--
make install -not war
Do you know many legal agreement between two private party, and which can be changed at any time by one party, even absolving this party from any previous legal agreemeent with the other party, without involving this second party ? Me neither.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
"Notable changes include notification that AT&T will track viewing habits of customers of its new video services Homezone and U-Verse, which is forbidden for cable and satellite companies, [...]"
Did anybody else find that the most shocking/suprising part of the article? I had just always assumed that the primary purpose of the digital boxes the cable company gives you was so that they could have more control over tracking what you're watching and when, but apparently my secret American Idol fetish is safe (at least from the cable company's datawharehouse).
All your data are belong to us. You have no chance to complain, make your time.
IANAL, but it seems to me that this doesn't get them off the hook with the NSA taps. First, I would assume that they can only give to the government what they themselves collect (so NSA tapping the lines means that the NSA is collecting the data and not AT&T). Second, the request for data still has to be legal, and that question is still open for the courts.
So, it is now time to cancel any AT&T service. I dumped my Long Distance (in favor of Vonage), I dumped my Cell Phone, and I would not use their other services for anything, especially when I can get use other companies for less $$...
Vote with your dollars...don't pay them if they aren't serving your interests as a customer.
It really is that simple.
--E--
Does that mean if I download a virus from an AT&T pipe that they own the virus too, so if it damanges my machine I can sue them, or maybe I can hold AT&T responsible for "their data" corrupting "my system" that I purchased?
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Now, this could be a heck of a performance hit, but... What if a company supplied a local VOIP call-in bank. As in POTS copper lines that you could dial into on a modem. That VOIP call could then be secured and piped to some other country. The other end of the VOIP call would then be answered by a modem bank which spits out into some foreign ISP.
It would be slow as tar, but it should get you a connection that isn't being directly reviewed by the NSA.
The other problem is that even those of us who don't sign AT&T's privacy agreement can still be monitored as packets bound for us may travel over their backbone pipes.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Here are links to the new policy and the current policy.
I was going to submit the following Salon article to the front page, but this will have to do
n sa/index_np.html
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/21/att_
You have to wonder if the two stories are related.
Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
Pass the Kool-Aid!
You & Bush are traitors!
Bush has subverted the Constitution!
The Only thing upon which his Oath of Office is based.
You sir, are a fascist.
As such, AT&T may disclose such records to protect its legitimate business interests,
Translation: "Everything has its price, including our souls and our integrity as a member of the private sector."
There are alternatives out there for telecommunication services. Show AT&T what you think about their policies and hit them where it hurts. Dump them as providers!
A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere. -- Groucho Marx
Who says he isn't aiming this at them (end user ISP's)? Last I checked the type who read slashdot tend to be the type who at least get a vote as to who their transit is coming from.
15. RIGHT TO MONITOR
Neither Charter nor any of its affiliates, suppliers, or agents have any obligation to monitor transmissions or postings (including, but not limited to, e-mail, newsgroup, and instant message transmission as well as materials available on the personal web pages and online storage features) made on the Service. However, Charter and its affiliates, suppliers, and agents have the right to monitor these transmissions and postings from time to time for violations of this Policy and to disclose, block, or remove them in accordance with the Subscriber Agreement and any other applicable agreements and policies.
Charter laid this out about 15 months ago, basically stating that they have the right to watch and record anything you are doing under the guise of "protecting" itself
i hate regulation...
privacy policy...
etc.
are you people stupid? you must be, the government just announced it spent 30 million of your money to buy exactly this type of information. in my mind thats the ultimate indignation, they broke the law, and operated against my interests using my cash. if you're going to sit around and just carp about privacy policies rather than demanding serious reforms AND regulations in the laws governing personal information then thats exactly what you are...
...vividly encapsulates that post-Watergate/pre-punk/coked-up moment when you could trust no one, least of all yourself.
"I have changed the agreement. Pray I don't change it further."
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
In other words, their "privacy" policy is they can do whatever they please without limit with your information.
Over the past 30 years they've gone from a monolithic corporate/government agency that owns your phone, line, and soul to a decentralized oligarchy that owns your phone, line, and soul... back to a umm... hrrmmm..
No. Cingular is a joint venture between AT&T and Bellsouth. The privacy policy with them is what applies to you. Nice try.
I've always wondered exactly why contract law allows for one (but not both) of the parties to arbitrarily define the terms of what either party is allowed to do under the contract. What's the point of allowing an agreement to be binding that can be completely subverted in meaning at any time?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I've looked at AT+T's site (ok, att.sbc.com) to see the Privacy Policy, going to this link for the full text of the policy, and unless they changed something because of the article, I can't find any of the language that is quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle report. Specifically, I can't find this quote:
"to protect its legitimate business interests, safeguard others, or respond to legal process."
I can't find the word "legitimate" in the policy at all. Am I looking at the wrong policy?
Please, be gentle. Thanks.
- Do not paint -
Forgetting about hypocrisy for a moment, there was a time when the US would advocate and to an extent even represent personal freedoms in most other parts of the world. Now it's all empty talk in inaugural speeches about the great USA is helping oppressed people regain their freedoms but as it happens most of those people desperately needing american support just happen to be oppressed by so-called allies in this "war of terror, countries like China etc.
For those of us who actually live under undemocratic governments, the fact that american telecoms are helping the government track people and their interests is making it painfully easy for other freedom-hating regimes to impose similar or worse policies which only help chill the personal freedoms even further.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
This should deffinitely spur an outcry for SSL sites. If someone infringes your privacy you should should lash out and try to have the problem fixed. Whenever you can't get the job done though it's nice to have something to fall back on. Any defense is better than no defense. I just checked https://slashdot.org/ and got redirected to the http:/// page. I suggest you all write with me asking for encryption on this site and any other site that you actually care about.
Semper Fi
I guess the larger a company gets the more they feel they are in business to serve thier own purposes.
How some of these phone/data companies make money is beyond me, it seems that the amount of profit they take in is so incredibly small and when it comes time to merge or sell these companies millions of dollars are shuffled under another shell.
"While your account information may be personal to you, these records constitute business records that are owned by AT&T. As such, AT&T may disclose such records to protect its legitimate business interests, safeguard others, or respond to legal process."
So lets see:
If I work at AT&T and a headhunter calls me at work or at home the corporation to check my phone records to "protect its legitimate business interests".
If I am a competitor of AT&T's, AT&T can find out what VC's I've been calling to "protect its legitimate business interests".
If I am sueing AT&T, AT&T can check my phone records to find out when I called my lawyer to "protect its legitimate business interests".
If I sign a contract with AT&T to provide me with my competitors phone records AT&T can do it to "protect its legitimate business interests".
You know if I were in charge of secruity for a major corporation I would be extremely worried about this.
No big deal... if anybody wants to do anything illegal online, or even look at questionable material, it's simply a matter of using your local municipal wireless network. The only thing the feds will find out will be the MAC address and the time said content was accessed.
A single dollar-voting customer is worth any number of petitions and angry letters.
You're right. A single dollar-voting customer is just as effective as an angry letter, which is to say that they're both pointless and empty gestures. Even a petition is worthless if all people do is grumble and then go back to being good little consumers.
Now a petition that gets a critical mass of people to commit to terminating their service... Ah, now that's actually worth something.
A single voter is as meaningless as a single rain drop. A movement can be a torrential flood. So, tell me now: are you trying to help build a storm front, or are you just making puddles?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
We use AT&T to host our data center. Can I change our company privacy policy to say that we can publish what we're paying AT&T and some of the deals we've been offered? I know a lot of other AT&T customers who are being overcharged who would love to know what we're paying, and I bet some AT&T competitors would like to know too. I could say this is protecting a vital business interest of ours since some of these people would pay quite a lot for the info.
"As such, AT&T may disclose such records to protect its legitimate business interests, safeguard others, or respond to legal process.'"
What especially scares me is the clause "to protect its legitimate business interests." While the intention of this clause is probably to allow AT&T to pass personal information to the government, its very ambiguity frightens the heck out of me. "Legitimate business interests?" I am currently reading Slashdot through an AT&T / SBC DSL connection; if they see these comments on Slashdot, can they disclose my personal information in retaliation? Can they use my internet surfing habits to humilate me and stifle criticism of the company?
No. Your contract says that they can change their policies at any time, and that you'll like it... b-tch!
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
The new AT&T privacy policy is here. Under "Scope", it states that, "Additional privacy policies apply to certain AT&T services, including AT&T Yahoo! Dial, High Speed Internet and Small Business[...]". The linked privacy policy for DSL is here, where the language hasn't been changed since 2004; it looks similar to the old language people here are quoting.
That said, having just renewed my DSL contract, I'm not pleased with the way things are looking for AT&T's privacy policies. Still, not having AT&T as your ISP is no guarantee that your data/phone connection/etc won't travel over their lines. It's still unclear exactly what major telecoms are providing to the NSA, but the idea of the NSA going against its own tradition and monitoring US citizens' communications is very unsettling.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
and let the lawyers sort it out.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
If AT&T can unilaterally change the privacy policy as it applies to users of those services (primarily individuals) what is stopping them from doing to same thing to small business as well as big business/coporations? Hmm? Lawyers? - perhaps. If I had a small business that used AT&T in any way, shape, form, or fashion I would be IMMEDIATELY and deeply concerned about the privacy of my business documents that are being transmitted over AT&T's network - by any means (T1/T3, OC3, Frame Relay, VPN, etc. - even encrypted communications). Suddenly all of my VERY sensitive corporate secrets become the property of AT&T? My e-mails are all logged? My browsing and viewing habits as CEO of said corporation are now catalogued and kept in a database at AT&T's Galactic Data Core? As a private citizen of the United States of America and as a corporate employee I say, unequivocally, FUCK THAT.
;-)
Every concerned citizen and individual should rail against these changes in their policy - even if you don't use their service now. Write to them and explain, calmly and rationally, why you would never use their service and how you will do everything in your power to explain to family and friends why THEY should not use their service either. Dissatisfied people talk to loads of other people. Pissed off people talk to loads of other people. ANYTHING negative gets spread, on average, 10 times more than positive things do. When was the last time someone you know went to the doctor and said they had a great visit? Probably can't remember that, but I can guarantee that _someone_ you know has been to the doctor/dentist/etc. in the past 2 weeks and has vented a complaint about "I had to wait FOREVER to even see the doctor and he was only in there for 5 minutes" or something along those lines. Will a write-in campaign from both people who are on their service as well as those who aren't work? MAYBE. Yes, capital maybe since is always an If. Corporations tend to be a little more responsive to loads of negative press and negative write-ins than the goverment of the USA seems to be. If a good many small businesses and larger businesses/corporations jump on the write-in bandwagon too (especially those affected by HIPAA, Sa-Ox and other "privacy" concerns) then I'd give it a good chance.
Not to mention who did NOT see this coming? Any company that uses the frigging DEATH STAR as a corporate logo has to be aiming for world domination somehow
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor liberty to purchase power"
Your mindless tautologies do not amount to a tactical strategy against the islamists. Will it take another, worse attack before you take them seriously?
an ill wind that blows no good
WTF is an ad for "hands off the internet" doing on slashdot?
As many erudite posters have pointed out this is nothing more than an astroturfing campaign by big telcos.. why is slashdot giving these people ad space?
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Can such clauses really hold up in court? I know they abound, but no regular business-to-business contract could or would ever allow such bull. Consumers aren't even given a choice about the contracts we are forced to sign. It's a "take it or leave it" thing that doesn't really exist in the business world. I just have a hard time believing that if a lawsuit was ever actually brought forth, the "we can change our policies at any time" clause in any contract wouldn't be the first thing to get thrown out.
A community-oriented lyrics site
Back to tin cans connected by string.
One day the toilets of the world will rise up... And I'm going to nuke them.
Wouldn't it just be cheaper for AT&T to rewrite the privacy policy as:
"You have no privacy. Your data is ours. You have no rights."
Rather than spend tens of thousands of dollars to pay lawyers to draft some marketdroir-laden crap everyone knows is complete bullshit.
I'm so hoping I'll get contacted by an AT&T salesperson in the next few months. I think I'd enjoy the conversation tremendously.
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
The problem with living in a democracy is that sometimes the majority of people don't care to do anything about something bad. It's the defining problem that changes democracy from the best form of government to the "least bad" form of government in my mind. So, until we can get a movement started to change things, we should prepare for the worst and accept that we live amongst sheep. We need to hide from the wolves, especially if this country does eventually become fascist.
I recommend the book "How to Be Invisible" by J.J. Luna. I've been seriously contemplating implementing the steps he suggests, but finding a ghost address is pretty hard, and finding an apartment to rent that will take money up front and not require credit checks, signed contracts, ID on file, etc. is proving nigh-impossible. I may have to look to house rental at this rate, which may be out of my price range <-> slum tolerance thresholds.
At any rate, get TOR & Privoxy, disconnect your address from your name completely, and disconnect your utility bills at that address from your name. Use ZPhone and/or a pager / prepaid-mobile combination for communication with relatives and friends. Do all email through 3rd party servers not connected to your ISP or, better yet, through TOR mail to a box you control. Let them try to connect your telecom activity to your name.
Let them try to track your through credit reports when no bills go to your residence, and your residence isn't in your name. Let them try to track you from your IP when you do all personally identifying traffic through anonymizers. Just let them try.
Yea. "Hands off the internet"
Which hands ?
Read radical news here
Companies are in business to make money for their owners, i.e., the stockholders. Providing a service for a fee is how they do it. If the company chooses to ram a 12-inch inanimate carbon rod up the collective asses of their customers, it's within their charter to do so. It is then up to the customers to decide whether the service for a fee being supplied by that company is worth having a 12-inch inanimate carbon rod shoved up their ass.
in the a$$ like a good naive citizen. you can't fight it. not when laws can be sold to the highest bidder in this land of freedom and liberty. and you actually thought this was YOUR country. ha!! guess again.
Have you ever posted a derisive comment about George Bush on a forum?
Have you ever had interrogators knock on your door at 2 in the morning?
You Will.
And the company that will bring it to you?
AT&T
Should be clear by now that AT&T is determined to betray its own customers. Time to vote against it with your money if you have any service from or via AT&T.
"...protect its legitimate business interests, safeguard others, or respond to legal process..."
Interestingly, the behavior that has them in legal hot water right now is none of the above! I think this sort of omission is what you get when you actually believe your own cover story.
I am an employee of AT&T Home Networking, also known as the "customer care" division. After having taken thousands of calls and walked a good majority of those customers past the member agreement page, I can only say that I am disappointed. Not a single customer has ever stopped me to read through the privacy policy.
Apparently, the people that you are trying to protect could not be bothered to care about their rights.
So, you're telling me that I have until Thursday night to talk to my lawyer about that AT&T van that's been sitting outside my house for the past week?
Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
How badly would AT&T be hurt if a massive fraction of their home users suddenly left. No more monthly revenue and no more revenue from new subscribers could put a hurt on smaller companies, but with the size of AT&T would it make any dents? I know they also make money from their backbone and corporate contracts, but one has to wonder what fraction of their Gross annual revenue is from that.
So I guess the full question is, How many people would have to be convinced to leave AT&T before it hurt their stock and thus the people that make the company's decisions on policy?
So why don't you write to the DHS and tell them you are not a terrorist and ask them stop spying on you?
What I am saying, Mister Whirly, is that claiming "I am not a terrorist/pedophile/Mexican" would be interpreted like crying "I am not a thief" out of the blue.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks William Shakespeare
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
Yet more impetus for the common people to engage in turning their computers, connections, and so on into Fort Knoxes, spending time and money to hide nothing at all, just to make the point that it is STILL their nothing.
Bring it on forces of invasion, you harbingers of totalitarianism, you destroyers of privacy. You will lose. The siren call of your own species is to be free, and you ultimately cannot fight what you inherently are. Time and history are on the side of the people here.
So lose no heart geekdom. Keep in your minds the immortal words of Princess Leia to Grand Moff Tarkin in Star Wars and keep on slipping through the fingers of those who would control you and all you know for no better reason than they want to. If they cannot provide a good enough reason to win the day of discourse and debate in the democratic way among the people, the people bear neither blame nor ill conscience over resisting. Once upon a time, some wise people wrote wonderful parchment documents spelling out these thoughts, and if we do not lose hope or memory of why, then one day we will do that again.
We the people...
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Since it is impossible to have your IP traffic travel anywhere on the net without hitting AT&T copper somewhere it is time to flood them with a flood of false positive red flags. Everyone on the net should surf the two things the government has shown interest in of late, porn and the middle east. Visit Al-Jazerra at least 20 times a day. Just keep the browser open and refresh. Make sure you visit the Arabic version. Then go straight from there to porn. If your significant other gets on you about it tell them you are defending liberty. Damn the man! Save the empire! Jihad for the destruction of the purple dinosaur!
No animals were harmed in the making of this sig.
Well, there was that one puppy, but he is all better now.
whats the big point of all this surveillance? Theres more to this than just "terrorism" and a mind control structure only really exists in scientology today so Im left wondering what does all all this surveillance do for the government? It has to be data overload, and we all know about how bad 99% of government employees are with computers. What the hell is going on? How can the securitat deal with all the information and its technologically clueless employees?
Resist. If you have to go dark, resist. The Bush global government-corporatist gestapo is the greatest threat to humanity since European fascism. It is time for conservatives to rise to the cause of limited government that they espoused before this evil man and his henchman came into power, and to join with other freedom loving people to use every non-violent means at our disposal to rip Bush and the Republican congress and courts from power, while there is still time.
Peace and long life.
In other words, this is far from a free market in many ways, and the customer ends up having little real choice when selecting a service. Either because the operator is barely profitable after mortgaging the business 30 years into the future before it makes its first dollar, or because the operator has no competion and will squeeze to the point just below where too many people start writing their representatives. Up until that point, both the operators and the government are happily collecting your money.
If AT+T claims ownership of all traffic flowing on its network, then all special interest groups will finally have somebody to sue with big $$ when something "bad" is found on the Internet.
AT+T will now be a lightning rod for lawsuits, frivolous or not.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
AT&T gets to moderate you!
Thanks to eating disorders most chicks are reasonably good looking these days.
Eventually i bet your data hits an ATT network on its way from here to there. They are the largest on the planet.
I wonder if this info gets passed down to people that use their network but thru resell service.
And who ever said you had a right to privacy when you voluntarily sign up for a COMMERCIAL service. The only argument for privacy is with the government, if you have some sort of law that protects it. Like we do here in the US.. Not all people in the world have that right guaranteed.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Welcome to the United States of Commieland !!
Day Pass Cookie:
http://www.salon.com/news/cookie756.html
What really irks me is that many people are hostage to a phone company. In some area I'm sure AT&T is the only land line company around. If cell coverage is bad, you are pretty much stuck with AT&T unless you want to go without a phone (like thats even an option in today's world). Thank God, I live is urban SoCal with plenty of choices. I feel for Ma and Pa Kettle in rual areas where AT&T is the only game in town.
Did anybody else find that the most shocking/suprising part of the article?
Not at all. OTOH, I work in the cable space. In short, there are laws in the books which severely limit the data which can be sent back from a DSTB. As for their purpose, that seems pretty obvious: in the world of digital cable, *something* needs to decode the cable signal and display it on your TV.
this is pure bullshit. anyone can write anything, but that does not mean it has legal force.
there are 2 things you can do to protect yourself from this crap.
1
write your own policy. include things such as "acceptance of my monthly payment will constitute full agreement to my terms" and the ever wonderful "i reserve the right to change any part of this agreement at any time, for any reason, regardless of any notice given" and a priotiry clause "should there be any conflict between policies, my policy shall take precedence over any contrived by the company"
2
send them a separate request asking if their privacy policy constitutes any form of legal advice as to your contract and your rights within it. if there is no legal advice then it may be an unfair contract, ie big company with lots of lawyers can take advantage of average joe, with no lawyer, and said contract could be voided.
3
subpeaona any and all records that they have on you. if they just said that they want to comply with legal requests they will have to do this.
4
once you have these records, demand that they are erased, and take it to court. you could actually sue them for a lot here, because there is no real way they can erase it, too many copies floating around...
I already dislike AT&T and after they merge with SBC I had an inclination to drop their DSL service - this is the final nail in the coffin for me
I thought it was a good idea
OK, so you have to watch a brief advert. Just do it and read the article. It's worth your time.
The article starts with: "In a pivotal network operations center in metropolitan St. Louis, AT&T has maintained a secret, highly secured room since 2002 where government work is being conducted, according to two former AT&T workers once employed at the center."
and it gets more gruesome from there.
Those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Notable changes include notification that AT&T will track viewing habits of customers of its new video services Homezone and U-Verse, which is forbidden for cable and satellite companies, as well as explicitly stating that the customer's data belongs to the company: 'While your account information may be personal to you, these records constitute business records that are owned by AT&T.
First off, how can my personal actions (viewings) be:
1) qualified
2) or, considered 'property', and 'property' of a third party?
Most importantly, my personal data is INHERENT to my being, and can should NOT be considered "property" of any third party. So, AT&T is fundamentally disregarding the legitamacy of individual personalities. I abhor the thought that AT&T thinks, MY first and last name is THEIR property to distribute for profit to advertisement firms, law enforcement et al. I, nor any substantial information indicative to my essence, is MY property and NOT theirs. If they wish to continue abstracting data that can pinpoint an individual, then any funds received off of exploiting that data should forfiet to the victim, royalties of some kind.
Of course, AT&T is now a monopoly since they sucked up all the Baby Bells, so we have no choice but to bounce charged electrons through their copper at some stage of communications. And, it's probably more an interest of the government, so there is nothing the consumer or "market" or populus can do about it. (We don't vote on who is placed in high paying positions at AT&T, nor do we have any real control over the choice of legislation our politicians choose to condone; to make it worse, Americans have no real choice of philosophical, legal, business, political preference of the politicians we are forced to choose from.)
I would ask American forefathers what they would do in this situation... but the only person alive today that might have a resembling answer is the one we are hunting in Afghanistan.
Just how big do AT&T(SBC) think they are ..
..
They would be quite easy targets on an IP level feed there data gathering systems so much crap they cant handle the amount same for any other system if there aint enough users out here with the ability to cripple them (on an ip level) then the internet is no where as big as is reported
Pete .
The Domino Theory really does work. First you get a government that can openly violate your rights with impunity. Now, one by one, the corps are following suit. And we like it! The election results prove it. And don't give me any of that crap about "stolen" elections. Nobody put up any significant resistance. We've had three elections since 2000 and it remains business as usual. Or better yet, tell me how much things have changed since Vietnam and Watergate. Or since Teapot Dome for that matter. So either vote your conscience in November or quitcherbellyachin' damn it! At the very least, direct your anger to those who put you all into this predicament...your friends and neighbors. You know, the 99% of you that voted "yes, lets keep things the way they are", leaving that brave 1% holding the bag. Which leads me to the question, 'Who's more influenced by big money? The politicians, or the people voting for them?'
What?
Minimized though it is, it's still a reference the rule of law. Here's hoping that last sentence doesn't get any shorter.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
If this privacy policy change applies to AT&T Yahoo DSL and/or Cingular Wireless then I believe you have a free pass => no fees to terminate your contract as stated in your contract. Now I'm not sure if this applies 100%, but I believe there's a clause for terminating your contract if it's changed. Don't know if this applies to privacy policy changes though.
-Palal
As a SBC Yahoo DSL customer locked into one for their 12-month contracts, is there a way to "reject" the new policy, or is it at least reason enough to get out of the contract without the usually horrendous early termination fees?
Had some interesting points come in a discussion about this and thought I would share.
/. and that amuses me, if only I had a blog to quote it in.
Soultron: your bandwidth stream is not your property
Soultron: it's their property on their network
Kattana: Is your car on a road not your property because you dont own the road?
Quaoar: eh, analogies between information and tangible objects tend to break down
Kattana: Is your mail not your mail when it leaves your mailbox?
Quaoar: better
Kattana: much better, since its illegal to open mail in most cases.
Quaoar: of course, the argument there is that mail is handled by a public entity.
Soultron: is a cop allowed to stop your car and inspect it? is the post office allowed to inspect mail?
Kattana: and it contains your information.
Soultron: tampering with mail is only a crime when a private citizen does it
Kattana: cops and post office workers are _goverment_ employees
Quaoar: but the total "privateness" of telcoms is up for debate. They're one of the more involved corporate sectors in government business.
Quaoar: Soul, only if they have probable cause or a warrant/court order/whathaveyou of that sort. On both questions.
Kattana: AT&T is a private entity, they should not be allowed to open your packets any more than your packages.
PS, anyone know what laws apply to private mail carriers such as FedEX? are they even "mail carriers"?
PPS, I am posting chat in a comment posted on
"This is regarding the Comcast Privacy Policy and it's favorable comparison to AT&T's revised privacy policy.
AT&T recently modified their privacy policy to include the statement:
'While your account information may be personal to you, these records constitute business records that are owned by AT&T. As such, AT&T may disclose such records to protect its legitimate business interests, safeguard others, or respond to legal process.'
I understand that "account information" includes personally identifiable billing information, personally identifiable usage patterns, and personally identifiable email transmissions, web browsing, and instant message text.
Thank you for protecting my personal information, and also aggregating all other usage to eliminate personally identifying usage patterns.
Please NEVER adopt a privacy policy that abandons respect for individuals, or threatens your "common carrier" status like AT&T has done.
If you now advertise your hightened respect for individuals over that policy adopted by AT&T, you may garner additional market share. You certainly have my good will.
Also, please check your agreements with AT&T for any Comcast services which use AT&T supplied network infrastructure. AT&T may have declaired any network traffic as "business records" which they now claim is "owned by AT&T", unilaterally negating your privacy promise to your customers."
Goodbye AT&T,
and take your spying with you!
Hopefully Verizon is better?
AT&T: "Haha! Its our Social Security Number now, bitch!"
We'll all be carrying AR-15s and have mortor rounds buried somewhere on our property.
Libertas in infinitum
These "Privacy Policies", pack-in "licences" and other arbitrary contracts corporations try to cram down your throat have no REAL legal weight at all and quickly collapse when challenged in court, which is almost never because the lawyers who write these things KNOW how meaningless they are. These agreements DO NOT allow corporations to break federal, state, and local laws which is what AT&T has done. They're just intimidation, pure in simple.
9
So what can we do?
The answer is pretty simple. Corporations are obliged to follow the law, not arbitrary policies they assign to themselves. The answer to stop these shenanigans is to lobby Congress to pass a comprehensive Privacy Act, and then lobby the White House to enforce it. Private lawsuits like EFF's help too, give them money.
Or, for a more practical solution, consider assassinating AT&T's Board of Directors. Here's a list: http://att.sbc.com/gen/investor-relations?pid=562
These days we have government and corporations playing Big Brother. In the old days, it was lords, churches, and the ever popular gossip system (i.e. good old fashioned social networks). One can argue who has it worse, but at least back then, you could go to the next village over and start with a relatively clean slate for a while, and one village's practices never really affected any other's...
What else are they going to say. But if you have to put out a press release to say something is not knee-jerk, you might as well be placing a full page ad in the Washington Post that it is a knee-jerk reaction. Story on Yahoo!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I'm wondering if this is a change for home users only, or will they be doing the same for corporations as well. I don't want them to be sharing the Internet usage of my company to other "business interests", ie my competitors.
It's become clear that this is exactly what it applies to (as well as AT&T TV service). Still, the claim of ownership applies to "Account Information" (billing info, etc) and not "Usage Information" (web sites visited), and certainly not the content you upload. Still, it's unclear exactly what they log and under what conditions they would share it to say, the government.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
Just call me 'Pat'.
I don't get the problem is with companies volunteering your browing history to the Government. You people don't seem to understand what it takes to ensure our national security.
So what if warrantless searches of phone and internet records is 'unconstitutional'? Our safety is more important than our rights. I'd rather every phone call, web browser click and private conversation be made a matter of instantly-available public record. In fact, I imagine everyone having access to this information. Imagine a beowulf cluster of vigilant people listening in on everyone else? Terrorists could never hope to hide! This'll also weed out criminals like pedophiles and drug users. Imagine the possibilities!
This'll also weed out disagreeable people, gays, pagans, communists, and of course little male geek crybabies sobbing at night about being stuffed into lockers.
Come to think of it, the total loss of privacy will ensure that society is more homogenous and harmonious. No more deviants would be allowed to fester unchecked in dark corners of our society. Trolls would be wiped out.
Go, AT&T! For a stronger, secure America!
[...end right wing parody]
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Nope. Verizon's also helping the NSA spy. Qwest is the only hold-out.
But, hey, the market'll sort it all out right? Just as soon as Qwest becomes someone I can switch to...
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").