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AOL Tries New Tactic to Keep Customers
Jhon writes "AOL customer Vincent Ferrari tried to cancel his account, but a phone rep wouldn't let him do it. What he got when he tried to cancel his account was a lot of frustration. Now that's customer support!"
Link to mp3 recording. Putfile's proper site for this requires a proprietary download just to run the file, so have this link instead. They'll probably move it though to make us look at their annoying page.
Here's link to Vincent's blog. He's been dugg and farked and all the other usuals by now (which is why the file is now on putfile), so be gentle with the poor bastard's bandwidth. He's just come out of a very rough breakup, after all!
Also, this isn't a new tactic at all. That spin isn't in the linked article or anywhere else, so I guess 'Jhon' is to blame.
Opinions on this practice aren't as one-way as you might expect. It's kind of surprising to see a site called 'consumerist.com' reply to
withPricks.When I used to subscribe to AOL 1.0 they made you call to cancel. There was never a way to do it online. The waiting time was very long on the phone. I listened to a lot of bad elevator music then.
The Custom Mary
AOhell got its name somehow, right? these tales go all the way back to Quantum Online running on the non-windows DOS graphical OS.
and they're all true.
It took me 10 minutes to get them to finally realize that with DSL, five years ago, I didn't want them any more. and I was lucky to be immediately dropped, perhaps because I used Quantum Online back in the v1.1 era.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Comcast has usedthat for years.
Hell I used to be an employee and when I cancelled my service (Comcast is horribly overpriced compared to DSL+Dish, and yes kids DSL is better than Cable at least when VoIP is involved) It took 2 weeks to get it cancelled and the endless calls to offer me a "better deal" if I keep my service and upgrade to the uber digital HD PVR package, etc..
I finally had to go to a local office stand in line and refuse to leave until they gave me a final bill and a written service cancellation recipt.
The phone people get a kickback spiff for every customer they keep from leaving and will do anything to get that kickback.
AOL simply is using the same tactic.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I got the same treatment a while back when I was cancelling an account from AOL -- not quite as bad, but close. The rep kept offering me free months in exchange for not cancelling. I didn't know how I got signed up for AOL in the first place, but that's a different story.
In any case, it seems more like an established business practice than a rogue representative. The AOL rep was pushy, but he was probably doing nothing different than he was trained to do, and had done before. Perhaps he should file a wrongful termination lawsuit, and see if AOL wants their training practices scrutinized on the record...
Here's the digg article with links to mp3s.
I think recording varies from state to state. Some allow you to do it if only one side of the call approves, so if you're in one of those states then you obviously don't need to tell them. Of course you could just do what most of these call centers do and simply tell the drone who eventually answers that you may record the call for quality purposes.
Sure you can... unless you signed up by credit/debit card or eft. If that's the case, your only recourse is to close the account. Of course their response may be to send your AOL account to a collection agency after their internal collection fails.
AOL is evil
Pull my finger for my public key.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It is their job to prevent you from leaving at all costs. I dont remember the stats (I worked in the tech department) but I believe they wanted no more than 3 or 4 cancellations an hour. If you have more than 6 its time for you to clean out your desk and work elsewhere.
Or as they like to put it "Your keybadge wont work" as a polite way of saying your fired.
Its a very bad place to work and the bean counters call teh shots and make senior decisions on how its run everytime. I am surely not surprised it lost 30 million customers. They are very short sighted indeed and dont give a crap about anyone including their own customers. Just how they look to senior management at AOL corporate.
Also the call center I worked did some borderline illegal practices and they always change the name of the subsidaries they do some call center work because they keep getting sued for firing people for unjust causes. But I consider this outright fraud.
So if you know anyone who uses AOL and wants to quit, here is how to do it? Call the credit company and tell them not to pay AOL anymore. Problem solved and you get to save someone's job.
http://saveie6.com/
Did a trial to see if AOL@school had somehow magically become useful.
Pretty much verbatim on their end - they try every tactic to get you off point and convince you to stay.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I moved from my apartment to my new house. I wanted to transfer my account to my new address. The rep on the phone looked up the address and couldn't find it. I asked for a cancellation and the dude on the phone went circles with veryfying the SOC, Last name, First name addreses. And supposedly he was suggesting I keep paying Adelphia the cable & internet bill for the apartment I no longer lived in. Finally, I started repeating that "I wanted to cancel my account" everytime he paused.
%100 true. I tried to help everyone with their problems which was why I lost my job at AOL. My handle time went through the roof and you have to be rude so the customer can hang up on you.
http://saveie6.com/
When I used to do on-site technical support for home users and small businesses, this is the procedure I ALWAYS used to cancel AOL:
1. Call the credit card company. Tell them you are cancelling AOL and will no longer accept any charges from them. The credit card companies are all too familiar with AOL's billing practices and will thank you for calling ahead.
2. Call AOL and tell them you'd like to cancel your account. DO NOT ANSWER ANY OF THEIR QUESTIONS, just keep saying "I am cancelling my account. The credit card company has already been informed of this and will not accept any more charges from you. May I have the confirmation number please?"
3. Repeat #2 until AOL rep. gives in and gives you a confirmation number.
4. Verify that the confirmation number is, indeed, for cancelling your account.
5. Call the credit card company back with the confirmation number.
It was a serious pain in the ass and took from 45 minutes to an hour, but it worked.
Beauty is just a light switch away.
Don't get me started on trying to get away from the AOL behemoth. You can get to a fraud hotline at your credit card company of choice in mere minutes. "Hiya, this is Patio11: does it count as fraud if I'm getting billed without my consent? Because I've had this recurring charge from AOL for *state length of time greater than zero* after I called them to cancel..." BAM watch your problem go away.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
They've been doing this for years.... Its not new... Seriously. I cancled AOL...hmm... probaly 6 or 7 years ago and they did the same kind of thing. We hear about this all the time, so please don't label it as a "new tactic".
snowulf.com
I am not a lawyer, these folks are or have consulted one, use at your own risk.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
It is a bastard way of running a business.
I found this post from a former AOL techie:
I've heard from someone in the business who should know, that the collection agency for AOL does not report to CRA's, because the CRA's got so many complaints and disputes about AOL that they no longer list "delinquent" AOL accounts on consumer credit reports.
Seems the customer gets the benefit of the doubt these days when AOL is involved, and no harm is done to the all important "credit report".
Of course, don't take what I am saying as gospel. Periodically check your reports (if you care about such things) after doing this, and go through the appropriate dispute mechanism. It is second hand information from a generally reliable source, but it appears that AOL collections don't have any teeth whatsover. Mostly just a bunch of threatening letters trying to squeeze a few dollars out of the guillable.
All the law requires is that you make a "good faith" effort to cancel your account.
If you make said effort, then cancel the billed account, you are covered legally. And the shots of AOL suing over the "debt" are pretty slim.
Actually, the McAfee issue is on all PC's. With McAfee 2005/2006 if the firewall is installed you HAVE to uninstall from safe mode because it won't unload the firewall. This is true with Dell, eMachines, Gateway, and clones. I've seen this on alot of systems, not just Dell PC's.
Much like most of the time when you try to uninstall Norton to reisntall/upgrade it the next install fails because it doesn't uninstall properly. It's strictly because of bad programing. And why are you having them install Avast? I thought the point of antivirus software was to prevent viruses. Avast let 3 Viruses on a system in 1.5 hours, and meanwhile thought that windows was a virus.
Anyway, more homework before ranting next time please.
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Heh.. I've tried that. My card was stolen once, and they signed up for aol w/ the stolen number. There was no way for me to cancel the service w/ AOL, since I didn't have the account. Even after the card number was changed, they were still billing the account. I had to dispute the charge every month for many many months. Saying the card was lost or stolen doesn't work the way it should. btw, this was an AMEX card!!
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
I got the same treatment from AOL. I was going to contact the Attorney Generals Office and found out Eliot Spitzer's Office had already settled with AOL - obviously to no good effect. The AE gets to make a buck and AOL figures the fine as a cost of business. The release from 2005:
0 5.html
AOL TO REFORM CUSTOMER SERVICE PROCEDURES
Settlement Requires Company to Remove Obstacles
Consumers Face When Seeking to Switch or Cancel Service
Attorney General Eliot Spitzer today announced an agreement that requires the nation's leading internet service provider to reform its customer service procedures.
Under the agreement, America Online (AOL) will alter the incentives it offers to customer representatives who seek to persuade subscribers not to cancel their service.
"This agreement helps ensure that AOL will strive to keep its customers through quality service, not stealth retention programs," Spitzer said.
In response to approximately 300 consumer complaints, Spitzer's office began an inquiry of AOL's customer service policies. The investigation revealed that the company had an elaborate system for rewarding employees who purported to retain or "save" subscribers who had called to cancel their internet service. In many instances, such retention was done against subscribers' wishes, or without their consent.
Under the system, consumer service personnel received bonuses worth tens of thousands of dollars if they could successfully dissuade or "save" half of the people who called to cancel service. For several years, AOL had instituted minimum retention or "save" percentages, which consumer representatives were expected to meet. These bonuses, and the minimum "save" rates accompanying them, had the effect of employees not honoring cancellations, or otherwise making cancellation unduly difficult for consumers.
Many consumers complained that AOL personnel ignored their demands to cancel service and stop billing.
The agreement requires AOL to:
Eliminate any requirements that its customer service representatives maintain a minimum number of "saves" in order to earn a bonus;
Record all service cancellation requests and verify action on the request through a third-party monitor;
Provide refunds to all New York consumers who claim harm based on improper cancellation procedures, up to four months worth of service;
Pay $1.25 million to the state in penalties and costs.
(New York State Attorney Generals Office) http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/aug/aug24a_
This is not just "bad programming." These companies know windows better than the 95% (or more) of windows software companies. They purposally make it difficult to uninstall. In they're daily testing they install/uninstall their programs multiple times. They know exactly what they're doing.
Having worked as a CSR once, its amazing what QA's that state you must do something and sufficient random monitoring will do. If part of your job is to say something, in its completeness, and the QA process does not allow for common sense "respecting of the customer's wishes" you can find yourself in a position where you choose between what someone in the company has decided they want you to say and what the customer wishes. Never mind the fact that whoever set the script has never come within 20 feet of the queue nor has any idea how their ideal phone conversation actually plays out.
Yes John maybe was sarcastic but if you've made up your mind to survive in that type of environment sometimes forceful tactics are required. I doubt he cared whether the customer was saved, just so long as he could get the points on his QA before letting him go.
Asking for his father, however, is where he got "hostile." I doubt that was part of any script.
Don't let their public apology fool you. They just got caught and want the spotlight off of them. I had a relative who worked at a national call center for a very large interstate bank and the stuff AOL used to do was criminal. Not only would AOL not let you cancel, but if you called your bank and told them that AOL was no longer authorized to debit your account, AOL would start submitting transactions using past credit authorization numbers to get past the block. Apparently the only way to get away from AOL is to close the account to which they had access and start a new one. No bullshit.
Not very many people know this but AOL does have an alternate cancellation line by FAX which requires no talking to the cancellation dept at all. Last time i was a member of AOL (was out of town for months and aol was most reliable on the road net access at the time that didnt require any research to find) well I cancelled as soon as I got back in town, however I did so entirely by FAX without any arguements or free month offers. This fax number is actually inside the AOL help system (the online help system) and its burried very very deep, I remember going clicking on cancellation information windows for at least 30 minutes until I got this unlabeled cancellation fax number. All it said was Send cancellations to fax (800 nbr here). The number from a company whos name i didnt recognize, and makes you think they have nothing to do with AOL, however my account did not renew, I was not charged, and to top it all of i received absolutely no confirmation or acknoledgement they received the fax, however it worked so I just left it at that. I'm pretty sure the number is still out there, I'm pretty sure they burried it even deeper however.
Calling AOL should be the first step always. I work as a rep for a credit card center, and we get AOL calls all the time. If you haven't contacted AOL first, there is not a quick way for us to just stop the charges, since there is always bureucracy involved. It's faster for all the involved parties to just keep a firm "No, thanks" at AOL's rep.
"It sounds to me like you're dangerously close to saying companies have a right to harrass you into backing out of a cancellation. They certainly have a right to OFFER customers something not to cancel, but they don't have a right to either guilt you into not cancelling or to otherwise harangue you about it. It's the customer's money, and it's the customer's credit card. In the absence of a contractual agreement, they have the right and expectation to be able to call and cancel at any time without getting any guff about it."
Actually AOL does assume it has the right to harrass you and its highly encouraged. I worked there.
You can not have more than 3 or 4 cancellations an hour and you must take a ton of calls with low handle time. In order to keep your job you must try to stop them at all costs! I am not saying this is ethical but I would have been rude too and nervous and thinking about my stats.
Its the job of the staff to protect AOL from the customers. Its backwards over there and I do wish someone would sue to change this. Many phone companies saw this and loved the idea and do the same thing with people trying to cancel. This is probably going to be the new thing.
But yes if you need to be rude back then so be it as long as the numbers are met for hte bean counters then things are good. The jerks there always had the best stats and the lowest handle time on the phones and the least amount of cancellations an hour.
http://saveie6.com/
At college there are some serious limitations on p2p. I have managed to work around these since then (just gotta be careful not to generate any noticable traffic, and to encrypt everything) but before then I seriously considered using a free AOL trial. NetZero's free 10 hours per month just wasn't cutting it.
So, I go to the sign up page. I fill out some of the stuff (it's a multi page form so I'm submitting as I go) but then I see they need a CC number. I'm not about to give them that (what if I forget to cancel? etc, not to mention my parents handle my accounting and they would want to know why I signed up for AOL when I had internet at college). So I cancel out of the form.
THEY SAVED THE ENTERED INFORMATION EVEN THOUGH I CANCELLED THE SIGN UP. I wasn't even aware of this until a few days later when a rep called me and tried to get me to reconsider and sign up anyways. Luckily it was a one time call and I made it clear I was no longer interested.
After a day or so, I decided to cancel. The operator tried to ask me why I was cancelling and blah blah blah, I simply said it was not a service I was willing to use and I was canceling my account. The process took about 5 minutes. I wouldnt go so far as to say it was frustrating, difficult, or even an annoyance beyond having used AOL in the first place. This guy obviously had a bad experiance, but as my experiance was about as easy as it could be, not all AOL reps are bad... Other than working for AOL of course ;)
Article 183 of the cCanadian Criminal Code defines a private conversation to include telecommunications between two people.
Article 184 of the Canadian Criminal Code:
In other words, you can record ANY conversation you are involved in, since you have obviously given yourself consent.
Its also admissible as evidence. Here in Québec, the appropriate section is Articles 2857 and 2847:
Avast let 3 Viruses on a system in 1.5 hours,
What exactly do you do on the internet? I don't even have an antivirus or a firewall installed on my XP box, and I have never had issues with a single virus or worm. The closest I came was maybe a piece of spyware or two bundled with something. How do you manage to pick up three viruses in 1.5 hours?
I typed "cancel" into the AOL Help Search box, and it had a link to the following:
We value your membership with the AOL® community. However, we are really sorry that you're considering canceling your AOL® account. It's our mission to build a service that lives up to the high standards of the online community. We hope you've enjoyed being an AOL member and that we can help you again in the future. For security reasons, AOL accounts cannot be cancelled either online or through e-mail. You can get your AOL account cancelled either through phone, US mail or fax.
To Cancel Your AOL® Membership Over the Phone
To cancel your AOL account over the phone, all you need to do is call up AOL® Member Services at 1-888-265-8008. You can speak to our representatives to get your account cancelled. This service is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
To Cancel Your AOL Membership Though U.S. Mail
You can request the cancellation of your AOL account through the U.S. mail. Just send your request to:
AOL
PO BOX 17100
Jacksonville, FL 32245-7100
To Cancel Your AOL Membership Though Fax
If you prefer sending in your request through fax, please send it to us at 1-703-433-7283.
Notes:
* If you choose to write or fax us, please include a brief note stating the nature of your request, the primary billing contact's full name, phone number, address and handwritten signature.
* In addition to that, for account security purpose please provide any one of the following:
o The master screen name of the AOL account
o The last four digits of the current method of payment (for your security, please include only the last four digits)
o The answer to the account security question of the master screen name.
* Cancellation will take effect within 72 hours of receipt of your request and AOL will send you a written confirmation. Please note that AOL LLC reserves the right to charge and collect fees, surcharges or costs incurred before your cancellation takes effect. Thank you for using AOL
They are also known as 800-lb gorillas in the antispam market.
Some might think otherwise, but their presence in the anti world & proper actions indicate otherwise.
The big question I was curious about as I read through the transcript is: was it Charlie, Delores, Mike, or Chris, all with a very strong accent, but when you ask them where they are, "In America, just like you!"
I don't speak Hindi or Urdu, but I know such an accent when I hear one.
This is where it's a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation for the rep. On the one hand, you have that "Calls may be monitored for quality assurance" clause meaning any supervisor can be monitoring any given call, so the reps need to follow corporate policy to keep their jobs. The other hand is by following corporate policy, the actual support given is abysmal at best, and you end up with disgruntled customers. If the rep does the "right" thing and please the customer, he'll piss off a manager and potentially loose his job. If he does the "wrong" thing and folow company policy, and the customer complains to a media outlet, the company will point the finger at the rep and potentially loose his job. Sucks for both the customer and the rep, as there's no easy way around it, and it could happen to anyone.
Just a FYI - Discover is a bitch to do chargebacks with (if you received any "service" - even if you didn't use it, you won't get your money back), but AMEX will do the chargeback quickly, without problems, give you a massage and will leave a mint on your pillow in the morning. They will also quickly drop retailers who have lots of chargebacks, etc.
Visa and MC are somewhere in the middle.
Not trying to shill, check forums around the net if you want confirmation. If you are going to use a card with a company where you suspect you may have problems, use the appropriate card.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
You don't have to boot into safe mode. Do the following:
- Shut down every component of Mcafee (right click the icon in the system tray)
- Shut down the icon in the system tray (is it called "McAfee Security Center"?
- Now you can uninstall all of the pieces. If it fails, hit ctrl+shift+esc and use the task manager to kill any McAfee processes.
This worked for the last 10 or 20 systems I've helped clients setup.
Actually I just did work for a customer who had the corporate version of Mcafee installed, which would not uninstall cleanly. I was unable to uninstall the Mcafee security center using Add/Remove programs, until I renamed a file in the Mcafee folder.
That's BS. I worked for @Home/AT&T/Comcast cable and never once was over the average handle time metric (even when it was down to something like 3 minutes), yet often had individual calls that were far above the handle time. How? A couple different ways, but most importantly I kept the short calls short so I had time to take a long call without feeling like I needed to rush to get the caller off the line. Know your shit. You get the same calls repeatedly, and you usually had a small number of possible outcomes. And most importantly, lead the caller. If you've worked the job longer than 6 weeks, you know the questions they are going ask. Be prepared with answers BEFORE they ask the questions. Sure, you occasionally get a weird question or issue, but those are few and far between. I never understood people who said "I can't help the customer in the time allowed."
As for getting the caller angry enough to hang up on me, I think I only did this intentionally once or twice after they were disrispectful to me, NEVER as a way to lower my handle time.
Post-rock/Ambient/Drone and other noise.
Ah yes, I remember those days of dealing with the unwanted, preinstalled, crap on my computers... ...then I got a Mac.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIVZ9b0RgmY&search= VINCENT%20FERRARI
??
Sorry, you're thinking this is a RISC chip of some nature (ie: all data must be aligned to the chip's bitwidth)? The x86 line of processors handles data at the byte resolution the programmer specifies; a char takes 8 bits, a word takes 16, a dword takes 32 and a qword takes 64, (I may be remembering this incorrectly, but) a float takes 80 and a double takes 160.
Sure, sure, some structs may get padded, but the real memory hogs (graphics / 3d programs) use unsigned byte arrays (for 8 / 24 bit color) to hold their data in RAM, unless it's more convenient to use words or dwords, (for 16 or 32 bit color). Point is, between those two things, yeah, you may need maybe 10-15% more RAM (to handle the padding), but twice is rediculous.
Meanwhile, Vista don't look so good to me. For the life of me, I can't figure what the hype is about.
But then, I use slackware, and like my custom kernels.
110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
RTFA. The dude's 30 years old and is paying for the account himself.
I understand that the rep may have been thinking 'hijacking', however how, exactly, would cancelling a hijacked account no be in Vincent's best interests?
The rep evaded the cancellation request repeatedly, saying that it was being used, it's online, etc. It's standard AOL tactics; try anything you can to keep the user from cancelling. I know, I've been there (I spent about an hour trying to convince a rep that I never even signed up for AOL, and trying to get them to cancel my account. Fortunately, cancelling the apparently compromised credit card was far easier). My girlfriend has been there (she spent twenty minutes trying to convince her rep to cancel her old account). AOL's retention reps are right BASTARDS to deal with.
Just do yourself a favor; before you go condemning this guy, sign up for an AOL free trial and try to cancel a month later. See how far you get.
110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
- The FTC issued a complaint and ordered AOL to change their practices.
- There were two class-action lawsuits settled in 2004.
- Ohio sued and settled in 2005.
-
Finally, most recently, the State of New York sued as well, and the agreement reached with AOL requires AOL to have a third party verify all cancellation calls by the end of this month.
Unfortunately, it seems like AOL is considering these lawsuits just a cost of doing business, and as a result, it doesn't appear that much has changed.The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
While trying to find a good dial up ISP in a new area, my wife jumped the gun and figured a free 30 day trial would get her online in the meantime.
A week later I picked an ISP and started service. Then came the fun of trying to cancel. My wife tried and failed and asked me to try since I was a guy and could deal with them.
I called and explained how we came by the account. It was never intended as long term. They tried to get me to keep the account. What worked was when I told them I was having trouble using my e-mail client to recieve POP-3 mail and asked how to configure it. They explained they didn't support it. I said I could not continue to use them because they did not meet my requirements. Case closed.
They don't want to let you go if they think they can meet your needs. Be sure your needs are not met by their walled garden.
The truth shall set you free!
Citi offers the same service and even has an online generator which works fine in Firefox.
Starting out such conversations with: "This conversation is being recorded for quality control purposes. Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law. Identify yourself, please" is often helpful.
I was able to Cancel AOL fairly easy... or so I thought. A few weeks after I cancelled, the AOL software on my computer randomly launched and popped up a large "Re-Activate Account" button in the center of my screen which I subsequently clicked on accident as I was trying to perform other tasks. I had to call AOL again to get it cancelled... again. Three months out I got a charge on my statement and I called AOL to see what the issue was. Apparently a hacker had reactivated my account and was using it without my knowledge. I asked them to reverse the charge and get rid of the account for good with no chance of reactivation. I was only met with poor, rude service from a number of their representatives. I got some good help from their technical support staff, but they weren't authorized to reverse any charges. It wasn't until 2 days later and hours on the phone that I finally reached their Internet Fraud department who quickly reversed the charges and deleted the account for good. AOL is a very secure service and it is extremely simple for hackers to reactivate a cancelled account. No authorization is needed to make charges to a credit card that is on file and any accounts that do not have parental controls set can make charges to the credit card on file with a single click. AOL is the worst online service available.
RonnieSan - www.ronniesan.com
Told them I was leaving the country next week. Checkmate.
Vincent wasn't unreasonable at all. He answered John's first four or five questions. After that, he basically said "you're not going to convince me, so just cancel the account." At that point, the conversation is over.
Vincent should have asked to talk to a supervisor at that point instead of getting angry. First you ask for the guy's name or employee number. Then to every question you get asked you simply say "You're giving me the run around. I wish to speak to your supervisor. I want my account cancelled. I'm not answering any other questions you ask.". You say this calmly and politely and you don't budge.
You repeat this process until:
1) They tell you that you can't speak to anyone higher up, at which point you threaten to take it up externally with whatever governing body is applicable. If there is an external body that has teeth (and it helps to know the name) they _may_ take notice.
2) They give up in frustration and cancel the account.
3) They "accidentally" hang up on you forcing you to start again.
If you don't get anywhere with that, you write a letter. Try to provide a record of names and time spent talking to various people to try to resolve the issue.
Beyond that you're getting into the sort of territory where you're going to need legal representation.
My point is that the WORST thing you can do is get angry, abusive, or flustered. You need to remain calm and professional. That way if it does go further they have nothing at all on you.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
The amount of crap that came on my laptop is the prime reason a pirate copy of XP Pro is installed on it, even though there is a perfectly legit CD key on the bottom of it. So now I have a nice unattended install CD with all the drivers and SP2 slipstreamed onto it so reformatting requires no effort at all.
I originally tried using it with all the bloatware but it was way to slow and annoying. I was using the 1 year trial of PC-Cillin but the damn thing popped up at every boot saying Warning! Your subscription will expire soon! Expiry: .
With all this new "genuine advantage" (though if I have to use the original CDs I don't see any advantage) means that I may have to get a real install CD and make an unattended install using the CD key that came with the laptop.
Call them up, tell them you're cancelling, get the reps name, etc. Write it all down. If they start to give you grief, loudly repeat, "I want you to cancel my account now." and hang up. IMMEDIATELY call your credit card company. Tell them you talked to XX at AOL to cancel your account, effective immediately, and to deny any further charges that come in from them. AOL tries to charge you, gets denied, service is over!
-jls
Techno-pagan
once (1999 iirc) I tried to cancel an account at an ISP (not AOL though) by telling the bank to deny charges by them... some month later I got mail from their lawyer demanding the base fee of several month (about 300$)
since I didn't use the account anymore we could settle the lawsuit by paying 150$
so you see, since you can't proove you cancelled your account by phone, this method can get you into trouble!
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
Certainly not here in the UK, and I should imagine the laws are the same in America.
Write a letter with your full address on it, stating clearly and in no uncertain terms that you "are writing to cancel the account". Not that you would "like to" cancel, not "please can you cancel" - "I am writing to cancel". Sign it, date it, send it Recorded Delivery for proof of receipt.
IANAL, but from my understanding they are legally bound to cancel if you request it in writing, as long as you haven't signed some agreement that binds you to x months. Because you sent it recorded, they have absolutely no excuse and can't use the infamous "we haven't received a letter off you" excuse.
I've cancelled a few Singlepoint 4u contracts this way with no problem or delay, and they're well known for being awkward and clingy.
Wow, I didn't know Ubuntu almost used as much RAM as Vista. :-S
(for the record, I had ~700 MB at startup post Vista instlal and a basic app or two running).
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Ok, I'll take the bait.
Macbook Pro 15.4" Stats:
15.4-inch widescreen display
1440x900 resolution
2.0GHz Intel Core Duo(1)
1GB (2 SODIMMs) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive
4x SuperDrive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
One FireWire 400 and two USB 2.0 ports
3-year world-class Applecare Support
MSRP: $2448.98
Brenthaven Edge II for 15.4-inch MacBook Pro
MSRP: $49.99
Total Cost: $2,497.95
Dell Inspiron E1505
Intel Core Duo 2.0 GHz
Genuine Windows® XP Professional
15.4 inch UltraSharp(TM) Wide Screen SXGA+ Display with TrueLife(TM)
FREE 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm
256MB ATI MOBILITY(TM) RADEON® X1400 HyperMemory(TM)
80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 802.11a/g Mini Card (54Mbps)
85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
3Yr Ltd Warr,At-Home Service,and HW Warr Support plus Nights and Weekends
Dell Nylon Deluxe Carrying Case
MSRP: $2035.00
Total Cost after $750 off $2000 coupon: $1285.00 (And they run this coupon literally every week.)
Differences between the laptops:
Macbook Pro has a very slightly faster video card (it's underclocked by default, so this is really a moot point.)
Macbook Pro is physically lighter and thinner (a huge selling point, in my opinion)
Dell has a greater pixel count (1680x1050 v. 1440x900)
Dell has a faster DVD burner
The Apple costs nearly twice as much. I happen to be a fan of the Apple platform, and have considered purchasing a Macbook (not the Pro), but there's no doubt in my mind that they grossly overcharge.
I've found it extremely easy to uninstall McAfee, as long as you remove the Virus Scan/Firewall/Spam Control before uninstalling the Security Center. I rarely ever get problems removing it, unless it's corrupted. Now Norton on the other hand almost always requires a removal tool (RNav and SYMNRT) to get rid of it all the way. Even if you uninstall Norton Anti-Virus, Live Update, WMI Update, and a few other installed components, it'll still sometimes be there and pose problems when you try to install other virus protection software.
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
Citibank, and it's all online. No need for a friggin Windoze-only program. No wonder I don't use my MBNA accounts.
--Jim (me)
I signed up for AOL on a whim in March just to see what it was like since I left many years ago (I was one of the original Mac users so early that I could use my initials as a screen name).
I didn't think much of it, so I decided to cancel last month. They will only let you cancel by phone, paper mail, or fax.
I decided to do fax, since I thought that would be the easiest. Apparently it didn't work, as I still got a bill on my credit card this month.
So, this article spurred me to try to cancel by phone.
I had to spend a few minutes talking to a machine...that actually wasn't a bad system. However, once I wanted to cancel, it put me on hold and said I'd have to wait about 10 minutes.
So, I was listening to Carly Simon for what seemed forever (I'd estimate about 6 minutes, since I heard two songs), and finally got a human. I was being given the hard sell much like this article, but it was clear the poor guy was being forced to read from the "script" and wasn't having much fun doing it, so I played along just to be polite.
That conversation lasted about 3 minutes. Then he said he had to read some cancellation disclosure and "not to shoot the messenger". The disclosure said that AOL would let me retain my email address for free just to maintain a relationship. No catch. They will send me a confirmation to my AOL address and by US Mail. Interesting.
After that, he said he needed to transfer for another disclosure and to verify important details. The phone began to ring, and ring, and ring....it finally went dead. (I hope this doesn't mean my account isn't going to be cancelled...guess I'll have to check that email address)
Total time wasted: 20 minutes.
A problem I have seen is that some keys that are on the box only fit a customized version of the Windows for the manufacturer. I have legit holograph OEM Windows CDs that I have tried to use on a Dell computer to reformat it and have a clean system without all the crapware they install, but the serial number on the Dell sticker is rejected when I enter it. I have seen the same thing with HP and Toshiba computers. If I try to do the right thing and use legit keys for the software that was purchased, it wont let me. I have to end up starting all over and use my volume licensed XP Pro, which has never given me problems just to make it work without resoring from the image dvd filled with junk. I want to do the right thing and install the serial number on the box, but they often make it difficult. I want to put on the Home version of windows that they paid for, but the serial number will not work when installing from the holograph CD so they get the Pro version instead. I really dont think i should have to have a CD of Windows in both home and pro version specific to each computer manufacturer just to make it work.
It's not a coincidence. My conversation with AOL in the summer of 2001 ended like this. AOL [cheerful]: Hi! This is Blahblahblah Fishcakes from America Online, how are you doing today? DrewMG: I'm doing okay, thanks. AOL [cheerful]: Great! Oh, I see you're from Nebraska! DrewMG: Yeah. AOL [cheerful]: Hey, how do you think the Huskers are gonna do this year?! DrewMG: Hopefully pretty good. AOL [cheerful]: Yeah, I'm a big fan. So, what can we do for you today? DrewMG: I called to cancel my account. AOL [sad-face]: ... oh.
[awkward pause]
AOL [sad-face]: Well, what's going on? Why do you want to cancel?
DrewMG: Because I have a DSL connection, and no need for your service.
AOL [desperate]: Well, if you want, you can pay $2 a month to access our services over your high speed connection!
DrewMG: Uh, no thanks.
AOL [desperate]: Think of all the exclusive content we provide!
DrewMG: Uh... no. Please cancel my account.
And so on, and so forth.
I had AOL for some time myself, and the complaints I have had here about trying to cancel the service are very similar to the experience that most other people have had here.
I had a problem with AOL that was similar, where I even tried to cancel the damn thing at least three different times, all of them rebuffed with one time even being offered six months of free service.
Finally, as a last resort, I called my bank and told them that I lost my credit card that I had been using to pay for the AOL service. I actually lost it in my garbage can that afternoon, when it met an unfortunate accident with a pair of sissors. With very little complaint from my bank, they issued me a new card number, also informing me that any automatic payment must be re-established with the new card number.
I thanked the bank for that service, and "forgot" to tell AOL the new card number. How rude of me.
This was the only way for me to cancel my subscription. God forbid if banks ever have automatic account change notification to creditors (not credit bureaus, which is another issue altogether).
It depends on where both parties were physically located. Certain states allow one-party consent to recording a conversation. Vincent would be that one party. Other states are all-party consent states where both parties have to give their consent. There is no such thing as a 2-party consent state. The state with the most restrictive law takes precedence.