Slashdot Mirror
BBC Reports UK-U.S. Terror Plot Foiled
j823777 was one of several readers to point out a BBC report that "A terrorist plot to blow up planes in mid-flight from the UK to the U.S. has been disrupted, Scotland Yard has said. It is thought the plan was to detonate up to three explosive devices smuggled on aircraft in hand luggage.
Police have arrested 21 people in the London area after an anti-terrorist operation lasting several months. Security at all airports in the UK has been tightened and delays are reported. MI5 has raised the UK threat level to critical — the highest possible."
spo0nman adds a link to the Associated Press's coverage.
Update: 08/10 12:57 GMT by T : Several readers have pointed out new restrictions imposed as a result of this plot on passengers' carry-on luggage. In the UK, nearly all possession (including laptop computers) must be carried in the cargo hold; while their rules don't yet go quite as far, U.S. airlines are stepping up their enforcement of carry-on-restrictions, including banning substances like toothpaste.
Good work over there at Scotland Yard!
From TFA: "Passengers are not allowed to take any hand luggage on to any flights in the UK, the department said."
Only passports, wallets.
The mind boggles. No computers, books, iPods, bottles of water, sunglasses?
Smoking, alcohol, and sex are already off-limits or difficult. I hope these are really short flights, and the planes have plenty of distractions for the passengers, otherwise we'll wonder if being blown up is not the better alternative.
First, congratulations to the Security Services for foiling this plot.
Did they need to detain someone for 90 days without trial to prevent this disaster?
Would ID cards have helped?
And how long before I can travel with my notebook onto an aeroplane again, as we all know a cargo hold is no place for a lithium ion battery?
No liquids or gels can be brought on board.
Reduce the "clutter" in your luggage so the inspectors have a clear view.
Medicine is ok and baby formula but be prepared to show it to the inspector.
Call carrier to see how early you have to arrive.
Have fun flying?!.
Well, maybe this time there was really something. Let's wait a week or so until things are more clear before shouting things like this.
-- Cheers!
I wonder if the mousse in my hair will get me a trip to gitmo...
Not if your airplane breaks the time barrier and lands in 1986.
WHY do these terrorists specifically hate those of us who are scared of flying??
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Or, you could say, until we stop bombing the shit out of/subjugating/exploiting the third world in general...
Current information coming over the Beeb is that the plot may have included up to 9 planes simultaneously or in successive waves.
Explosives are suspected to have been carried on in hand luggage as liquids, suggesting that they were planning to use binary agents (where two non-explosive chemicals are mixed to form a 3rd reactive substance).
Currently travelers from the UK are being told that (IIRC) they may board the planes with absolutely no more than 7 carryon items, limited to a select list such as:
- 1 book
- 1 newspaper
- wallet
- passport
etc.
-Styopa
Please note that MI5 said 'disrupted', not 'foiled'. The impact that this event has caused can definitely be considered a significant success by the planning organisation or anyone aligned with their goals, if not as much as they wished.
Mind you, it might actually serve some interests better for tens of millions of people to be worried, inconvienced, or annoyed than for airliners to explode.
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything." (attrib. Joseph Stalin)
"Or, you could say, until we stop bombing the shit out of/subjugating/exploiting the third world in general..."
That is quite simplistic. Did you realize that the main beef of the Madrid bombers was that Spain had driven out Muslim invaders hundreds of years ago? It's too easy to dismiss everything as "the oppressed Third World being forced to strike back at First World oppressors", especially if you subscribe to very simplistic Marxist world-views and lack critical thinking.
Where were you when the voynix came?
We've known about a likely plot to blow up several planes.
Now, the perpetrators have been arrested, and anyone else who may have been involved is potentially compromised, so will probsbly not risk carrying it out. As a result, an attack is less likely. So the alert level has gone up.
Security at airports is not 'tightened' it's fucking impossible. Anyone travelling from the UK to the USA will find that it's quicker to walk.
Ed Almos
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus, 56-120 A.D.
Actually, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing occured during Clinton's Presidency. Also the USS Cole. I think there were a few more.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
If you really remember, you will recall certain facts you left out, such as the man was fleeing from police. He created the dangerous situation. If you do such things, especially in a security-critical transportation environment, don't be surprised if you get shot.
No, He wasn't fleeing from the police.
You should really try and get your facts right before you accuse other people.
Why an American flag on a post about a British event?
I often have trouble remembering which way is out of bed in the morning.
Uhm no. He was quietly sitting inside the carriage; he hadn't jumped the tollbooths, he wasn't wearing a bulky jacket, he wasn't running. Then they pulled him to the ground and shot seven rounds in his head from about ten centimeters distance. Check the facts, man. Also, the guy was called Jean Charles de Menezes and he continues to be a nasty smudge on the reputation of the London Metropolitan Police, who have otherwise made sure, after an internal investigation, that they're not to blame at all for his death.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
Of course, what will happen now is the the TSA or the FAA is going to ban all carryon liquids on air travel, and just for good measure will throw in food. So now that the airlines don't offer free food on flights, anyone want to start a pool on when the free sodas on the airplane will suddenly become very expensive? Put me down for Aug 18, 2006.
I'm not trying to suggest that this is some sort of plot by the airlines to charge higher drink prices. I don't think any such thing. I'm simply saying that this is the likely result of the inane government action that will innevitably follow: banning all carryon fluids on all commercial flights.
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
The wolf likes it when the boy cries out, it makes things so much easier.
- These characters were randomly selected.
...more angry about the hassle this causes, than anything else? Terrorists spread terror, so they've hit their mark. By being foiled the plot does an amazing amount of damage on its own, spreading FUD.
I don't feel any safer by having my liquids/toenail clippers/pocket vibe/ipod/laptop taken away from me, when there are plenty of other ways to kill/be killed that airlines have no control over. I am more angry at terrorists for making American privacy close(er) to extinction than anything else. With a "war" on "terror" there are going to be casualties, my water consumption/music listening/laptop using/game playing/phone usage habits shouldn't be at the top of the list.
Why does the scapegoat have to be the common citizen?
when you are reporting the truth.
The fact is and has always been the same. Radical Islam wants to destroy the West. The best way to bring down their target is through fear. Ignoring it got us in the mess in the first place.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
>One thing that's almost certain is that no official will release any detail on that plot
I have been watching BBC news for the last 30 minutes (I live in the UK). Considerable detail has already been released and it's still the first day of the operation.
We have been told:
* Liquid explosives were planned to be hidden in soft drinks bottles (hence the ban on liquids).
* The explosives would be detonated over the atlantic (to ensure maximum fatalities).
* The attack would come in waves. As things start to clam down after the first wave, another wave was to be launched.
* The deah toll would be greather than 9/11.
According to US spokespeople:
* The investigation has been "critical" for about 2 weeks.
Compared to the vague information you hear from US alerts, this seems *much* more credible.
Unless these restrictions are lifted, I don't think I'll ever be able to fly anywhere. Yes, I understand the need to a sensible level of security, but I see this as going too far.
I used to suffer from depression, and it has left me with the remnants of social anxiety. I can function out and about quite easily, but with very definite limits. Crowds still mess my head up. Queues fill me with dread. I need to travel with something to take my mind of things - often to shut out the world and people around me.
I also have a fair bit of not-exactly-cheap equipment that goes with me everywhere. There are things that do not get let out of my site. My laptop, for example, comes to work with me when I have a house-inspection. I trust my colleagues more than an inspector I've never met. Yet I'd be expected to fly long-haul without carrying it in my arms?
Yes, I know I'm probably slightly paranoid. But for one thing I've had things broken before when they were with people I didn't know or trust. And secondly, it's another holdover from my depression.
And right this very minute I feel extremely uncomfortable. I see an all-too-possible threat of increased security measures invading our lives to a greater extent, where the existing ones already feel too much.
Plus the idea of being stuck taking my holidays without ever leaving the UK[*] kinda fill me with dread.
[*] 'Cos I can't see these measures not spreading to Eurostar, somehow.
Tiggs
"120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
Just yesterday, the UK Home Secretary was in the news saying that "we may have to modify some of our freedoms in the short-term" to protect us from evil terrorists. Given the degree of preparedness demonstrated by various services today, it seems pretty obvious that he was aware of the current situation when he made those remarks -- thus it also seems clear that he was shape people's opinion in preperation for the events that are now unfolding in public today.
See: Terror 'may force freedom curbs'.
Why are planes and airports apparently such an appealing target for terrorism? If I really wanted to do some damage to civilians i'd go to a sold out college football game (very little security) and blow a chunk out of the stadium. If I wanted to do some damage to the government then I'd find some fairly small military building to blow up. And lastly, if I wanted to do something that would get a ton of media attention, i'd blow up a water tower or some sort of public monument.
The only reason I could think that planes are so attractive is that you only have to overtake several people and once you are in the cockpit, you are free to do whatever you want without revolt. Unless you have specific plans to use the plane (not just blow it up while its in flight) or hold the passengers hostage, it doesn't seem like a very great capture. I suppose one other advantage is that the terrorist doesn't have to worry about being stabbed to death with nail clippers that bystanders had on them since you can be sure the airport security took those all away.
friends of mine are flying home from UK to Australia soon. With two small kids. And under the restrictions, no kids toys. 18 hours with two kids and nothing to keep the occupied.
I suspect the rest of the plane would prefer a terrorist attack.
I arrived at Heathrow for an early flight to Frankfurt just as news was breaking for this at about 06:00. It was a tough decision to part with my laptop, PDA and mobile but I decided to take my chances. It only really then dawned on me the extent to which I depend on these items when I was waiting for hours to clear security... While I could have found a public payphone, all my phone numbers are stored in my mobile & PDA and I actually remember very few of them. I could speak to people, after somehow getting their numbers, but they could not call me back. All the usual channels that are normally avalable to me to get information about a delay were unavailable to me - no web access or even SMS messages to friends with access. You just have to stand in a queue like a sheep.
:)
I didn't take my flight in the end, despite it being one of the few that wasn't cancelled - when I finally got to the gate they still had an additional delay of over an hour and I was only due to be there one day. With half of it gone, and the prospects of being able to fly back to the UK this evening looking distinctly dubuious, I offloaded myself.
This was obviously an inconvenience for me, but I have nothing but praise for our security services who foiled this and the airport staff who managed to handle the whole thing pretty well, considering.
As has been reported, items allowed were limited to wallets/travel documents and baby/health-specific products. However, many of us brought books and papers with us also. Interestingly, Duty Free shops were open airside - although I didn't see if any electronics shops were. The focus this morning was really on what can be brought from landside to airside and they didn't seem to have thought about what you buy airside so much (although I would speculate that electronic items bought airside do not pose such a threat in that trrrsts would use pre-modified devices to detonate explosives). The search at security was a remove shoes, belts etc. job - rather like being in the US
It will be very interesting if this policy is made permanent. Like many companies mine has a policy of not putting laptops into checked luggage - for good reason. And when you are on the move much of the time you need your tools to keep productive - I've previously found time in the lounge or on board to be really valuable sometimes. However, I think in light of all the other ways that security can be compromised this can't continue as an indefinite measure - the risk:hassle/cost ratio is all wrong.
That's a good point, actually - does this situation really merit that the "UK threat level" to be set to "critical -- the highest possible"? At the highest possible threat level I'd really expect to be worried for my life the moment I stepped out of the front door, anywhere in the UK. No, inside my house - at the highest possible threat level I should be scared to make a cup of tea in case the water supply is poisoned or look under the bed in case there's a monster.
We are not being shelled, we are not being invaded, we are not under attack, we still have a higher risk of dying from heart disease. By calling this situation "the highest possible threat level" the government is whipping up fear and paranoia, and MI5 runs the very real risk of inuring people to any real UK-wide dangers that may come along.
Wonder what they were planning to use? Pop Rocks and soda or the new hotness of Mentos and soda?
And, like with falsifying creationism, there is no way to be certain the plot was genuine -- at most, you can prove a given plot was staged up.
And, given the repeated circumstances in which plots that were "staged up" actually ended up in shredded bodies in London, Madrid, and elsewhere, you don't see people who have actually chosen their flights and are in possesion of actual explosives to be worth stopping?
In this case, I would rather believe the conspiracy theorists -- no sane intelligence agency would wait until the terrorists are about to board the planes.
As you've perhaps noticed, they were not walking up to or sitting down on airplanes at the time. They made the arrests before that stage, but only after they were comfortable with having as many of the people in the cell as possible accounted for. If they'd acted sooner, they may have lost more of the cell. There are thousands of variables at play here, and the number of people in intel and law enforcement that have to coordinate on such a thing (including the ones who have to be ready to capitalize on the international communications and other business that would have immediately erupted the moment this hit the news) is enormous.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
At the risk of being accused of covert racism, it's perhaps worth pointing out just how much of the UK government is controlled by Scots, from the Prime Minister down. The Scots have something of a reputation for violence and aggression, and if you want to point out that the Rt Hon Anthony Blair, MA, Barrister-at-Law is an upper class Scottish lawyer, it was just such an upper class Scottish lawyer that organised the Glencoe massacre, for his own advantage.
Actually, I think our police and security services on the whole do a pretty good job, especially outside London (where there is a lot of institutional corruption.) But they deserve better politicians.
Pining for the fjords
Mind you, it might actually serve some interests better for tens of millions of people to be worried, inconvienced, or annoyed than for airliners to explode.
Nah. They'd rather that the planes had exploded. That plays much, much better on Al Jazeera. This cannot be cited as a "victory" by the jihaddis backing it, and if they had knocked the planes down, they'd also have the extra inconvenience and worry, as frosting on that cake. No... this is a win for the good guys, and probably really frustrating to the backers that obviously put a lot of time and effort into recruiting all of these would-be suicide bombers, training them, supplying them, etc. You can bet that there are some pre-recorded Zawahiri video tapes that will now not be seeing airtime since this attack was stopped.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Honestly what is the goal behind terrorism? Has it done anything for their cause besides rain more crap down on the people they claim they are fighting for?
Cynicism in the US is reaching an all-time high. Half the population blames the government or accuses it of conspiracy no matter what the government does. We need more effective ways of countering the enemy's FUD. We have multiple CSPAN channels broadcasting government live and embedded reporters and still most of the citizenry would rather read and believe tabloids, kooks and extremist blogs. Guess what, you are the government. You are the military. Look at the history of the world and realize that there ARE people who will kill you because they don't like your GOD or covet what you have or have been taught since childhood to hate you out of existence.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
dude, it's a laptop, not a spleen. yeah it's retarded and we shouldn't have to, but being distracted by the real world for 6 hours isn't going to kill you. it can't, i mean you won't have anything on your person to do it with anyways.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
You're completely right - this is merely wimpy, pussy-like reactive defence.
We should be out there like real men, pro-actively fighting the terrorist threat... by educating people, improving their quality of life, allowing them self-determination and treating them fairly - that's how you stop terrorism, by taking away its recruits.
Oh, sorry, you meant we should be go stomping into countries which might or might not even support them and blow up or shoot a lot of brown people. I can see how that would stop all the other brown people who weren't terrorists before. And it'll certainly not prompt any of them to become terrorists. Good plan!
Thoughts for the day:
Terrorism's only raw material is recruits.
You can kick over snowmen all day long - they'll keep popping because anyone can make them. However, remove the supply of snow and there will be no more snowmen.
Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
I realize you are a troll because no one could possibly be THAT ignorant, but we also have:
1) 1979 Iranian hostage affair
2) 1983 U.S Embassy bombing in Beruit
These were the beginnings of Middle East terrorist organizations specifically targetting the U.S. You can try to blame it on the U.S meddling in Mid-east affairs, but that is a cover-up for the real reason. The fact is, Islam has not progressed beyond the time of the Crusades and anyone who does not follow Islam must be converted or killed. Yes, there was a time that Christianity followed a similar precept, but they finally moved on. Unfortunately, there is no way to win against this type of belief except by killing them all.
I hate to break it to you Bush-haters, but the only thing Kerry could have done to change things is establish Islam as the new national religion of the U.S. You people need to get your heads out of the political trash heap and realize that none of this is about what we've done -- it's about who we are. These people don't care about your political leanings except as a tool to build sympathy for the devil. They would just as soon see you lying dead next to W.
THAT is the reality we face.
Monday: The thread level has been raised to level 5
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Wednesday: The thread level has been raised to level 25.
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We're at war with the Soviets^D^DTerrorists...
And we just has a glorious victory !
next up the 20 minutes of hate?
then back to work, business as usual..
We don't even need a war, just the illusion of one, thank you minitrue for real and complete reports of whats going on, and thank you miniplenty for lowering the oil prices to a historic low of 20$ pr gallon...
the current war on terror is quite like the war in 1984. Where the main purpose of the war was not to capture territories or resources, but rather to reduce the freedoms of the populaces. after the liberation of iraq, iraqies gained some and lost some, but people of the eu and us lost freedom. This victory will no doubt show that our forces are good and fine and great, and with more funding they'd be even better. now they have tightened airport security, most notably by requiring all carryons to be carried in clear plastic bags.
They're no doubt already discussing how to make security even better, as we speak. I'm not saying terrorism isn't real, but it's certainly been boosted since we started taking it seriously. I'm not saying the government is trying to take away your freedoms, but I do think they're forgetting what it is the silverware of civilisation that they're remoulding to shoot werewolves (monsters none of us really know much about). The governments are more worried about the deaths of a max. 5000 citizens the last five years, than meeting the big challenges we're facing (reducing bureaucracy, informing the intolerant, helping developing countries, improving pluralistic democracy, increasing education levels, getting humans to think)
So what if they kill a few of us, including some leaders, democracy is strong because it is NOT dependant on one person, but when too few cares, it becomes a defacto oligarchy.Blah blah sig blah blah blah irony blah blah
Spoken like a true American. We tend to forget pretty quickly. Umm... remember this from October? Probably not. In fact, I couldn't remember any of the specific plots we foiled, other than Richard Reid (if we can even count the Brits acting on US intel as a win for us).
I think its more a cultural difference, though. American journalists like panic! blood! chaos! I bet you might remember the UNC student who ran down some of his fellow students, or the Muslim fellow in Seattle that shot 6 people (including a pregnant woman) attending synagogue, or the other guy that shot up El Al... Notice that we are enemy #2 (sandwiched between Israel and the UK), but of these, we've had the fewest terrorist acts in our country since 9/11. That means we are stopping attacks. The reason we only hear about failures and not successes is that our media doesn't report when our side wins, they only report catastrophes (I recommend Michael Crichton's State of Fear -- it's well researched and covers this and quite a few other topics).
Gotta love it.. absofreakinglutely nothing happens until election time. Whatever happened to the Florida terrorist group that made headlines last time the prezs numbers were hitting the floor?
Has it ever occurred to you that election time is exactly when these clowns would deliberately seek to launch such an attack? Have you completely forgotten how Al Qaeda directly, and in their own favor, manipulated Spanish elections by being willing to slaughter Spaniards?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
The man was NOT fleeing from the police, he was running to catch a train that was about to leave. The police didn't shout at him until after he was *seated* in the train, and the police had to put a foot in the sliding door of the tube train to prevent the door closing because it was on the verge of leaving - that's why Menezes was running for the train. He didn't start to run, according to witnesses, until he saw that there was a train in the platform. He didn't vault a ticket barrier (he used his Oyster card to enter the station). He wasn't wearing heavy winter clothing; he was wearing a denim jacket (as the photographs in evidence show).
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
I wonder this too, but a bomb on a plane in flight will probably kill everyone on board - not so in a shopping mall.
Higher kill ratio.
Spectacular.
Passengers on a plane tend to be more affulent.
The monetary loss of the plane itself is very high.
Disrupts air travel leading to wider economic perturbations.
I guess that is why they are after planes. But also they go for busses and trains and nightclubs.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
News are saying that 21 people have been arrested, and 9/11 death toll was 2976 people (according to wikipedia, other sites I saw gave similar numbers). To attain this number, each of the 21 attackers would have to kill 2976/21 = 141 people per plane, which seems reasonable. That, of course, is assuming only 1 attacker per plane... Wouldn't it be more probable that there were at least 2 attackers per plane? In that case, killing 283 people per plane seems too much... Which might indicate that not all the attackers are under custody.
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
actually, it's far more effective to detonate them over land when they are at cruising altitude... remember Lockerbie... I certainly do... I did not enjoy my Christmas that year as I was a member of the search parties for the bodies... a right mess that was... spread over hundreds of square miles...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
The attack would come in waves. As things start to clam down after the first wave, another wave was to be launched.
On the radio this morning (a Washington, D.C., news station) there was reference to a planned 3 attacks over 3 days. I found that odd--if successful simultaneous detonations were carried out, wouldn't the plotters assume that security would immediately be tightened to the point where the chances of succeeding on subsequent days would be much lower?
Actually what i think is there is a great deal of difference between plots being fabricated or not.
In case they are fabricated, it means that there is a group of people with access to power in the country, the likes of people that can do anything to do what is in their and their supporting circle's best interests, no matter what and how it is being done or who gets harmed.
this is way more dangerous than external terrorist threat, which can be avoided with adequate security.
It is much harder to get rid of the 'terrorists' at home.
Read radical news here
If you're blowing yourself up anyway, you don't give a damn about long-term poisonous effects.
I think you could make an explosive that is not a fast poison. If it is foul-tasting and you make a funny face, oh well... people do that with baby formula and saved breast milk too.
Basically: suspend a powdered high-explosive in something thick and colorless, like glycerin. (a powdered oxidizer should work well too, but I can't think of one that wouldn't be a fast-acting poison)
Sheesh... how hard is that?
Probably you could make an explosive mouse pad or keyboard rest.
We should be out there like real men, pro-actively fighting the terrorist threat... by educating people, improving their quality of life, allowing them self-determination and treating them fairly - that's how you stop terrorism, by taking away its recruits.
How does any of that change the ideological basis for most of today's current terrorism? IE, Islam, literally, submission.
Your theory might work for gang-banging ghetto thugs, but for murderers who think they're doing Allah's work your view is entirely naive. This is ideological war, make no mistake. I'm not saying every Muslim is a terrorist or even sympathetic to them but you're being willfully blind of the common thread between them all.
Moreover, many US Muslims, despite having everything you wish to give terrorists, sympathize with or outright finance terrorists. The guy who just went on a shooting spree in a Jewish community center was apparently very well employed, and what came of it? Murder.
We are fighting people who think it is the will of Allah to convert you to Islam, make you submit as a Dhimmi, or kill you. If you think American ultra-right religous conservatives are so evil, why is it such a stretch to see that taken much further , 'faith' can lead to murder?
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
And why wouldn't these have been caught by the chemical sniffers in the security check points? The hidden drug/bomb dogs in the airport? Why all the new security? Why wouldn't our normal airport security have caught these guys in the airport?
Note: You need a sizable hole punched in a plane to make it break up. An entire chunk of the fuselage needs to be removed. Explosive decompression doesn't occur from small basketball sized holes.
Trumped up nonsense, generatetd by our "gurdians".
:-)
And the U.S. will have t' do without toothpaste, emulating the dental characteristics that make us in the UK world famous.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Insightful? Jesus.
How about an attack every five days if we lets those cocks have free reign?
That sentence does not look right, let's fix it.
How about an attack every five days if we lets our citizens have civil liberties?
If we as a country valued safety above all else in the 1700s, we would never have broken away from England. We would have BEGGED the British to quarter troops in our homes and tax the daylights out of us just as long as the promised to keep us safe from Indian raids.
Finkployd
Note also the bit about having to drink any baby milk - previously held to be only an urban legend
Of course, terrorists don't drink unhealthy substances in the last hours before a suicide attack.
Trust me, I work for the government.
Perhaps seat 12C's cold drink is Binary Part A (which is reasonably safe to drink) and seat 20D's cold drink is Binary Part B (which is also reasonably safe to drink, although it tastes worse than Part A).
... ...
Terrorist A: Praise Allah! Are you ready to do this?
Terrorist B: God is great! Yes, I'm ready. Bring on the virgins.
Terrorist A: (pours a bottle of green liquid into a large cup) Okay, pour yours in here, too.
Terrorist B:
Terrorist A: What's the matter?
Terrorist B:
Terrorist A: Dammit! You weren't supposed to drink the whole thing!
You know, I wish it were true, that I didn't have to connect anywhere. This is how they getcha into buying a higher-priced ticket.
Also, my time measurement was for door to door, and with normal delays. An actual direct flight is only like an hour and a half. But, when you consider these factors:
Besides, I get to see the countryside, do some wardriving, and discuss many things with my SO. No security theatre, plenty of cargo area, far cheaper. Cruising through the amber waves of grain, and purple mountain's majesty -- *that* is part of the American Dream that I was taught, not this Orwellian nonsense.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
I live in a country with the highest number of muslim population in the world (Indonesia). There is some logic to what you say, but I don't feel that it's the main reason, not in Indonesia's case anyway.
The terrorists here don't seem to be motivated by economic reason. Some were already rich and educated. And I don't hear the poor people here blaming western countries for their poverty. Concepts such as global equality and obesity in the US are not their concerns. If you gave them a large sum of money, they would not suddenly become moderates.
I think they are motivated by their extreme view of Islam and the values that go with it. Those who don't share that view and values (like the US) are seen as the enemy and must be eliminated.
google: verb - to search for information on the Internet.
- Are there liquid explosives whose components are (relatively) safely drinkable? I say relatively because, if you're a suicide bomber, it really doesn't matter if it will kill you in 24 hours, you just have to be conscious for 2 or 3 hours after drinking the stuff for the security staff.
- Are there liquid explosives which can be made from a drinkable component (or two or three) and (ewwww) urine?
How far do we go with this?I'm running late, so I'll just put the lines on the page and leave space to read between them.
Joe got the boot from a grass roots movement.
The spin machine reminds people that democrats are left wing radicals that are weak on homeland security.
A convenient terror plot spoiled so soon after is suspicious.
"You are ignorant. You methods breed new fundamentist muslim terrorists."
if you do nothing, there will still be new fundamentilist muslim terrorists. So why not at least try to do something? It's foolish to sit back and let someone attack you.
"The correct way is not using any force at all. If you know where they are, send that region economic help. Do everything to increase happiness in that region, and take no violent action whatsoever. If they blow up a plane, just shrug and say "losers", then move one. Don't pay alot of attention to it, they are, just losers after all."
Hehe, you're funny. Take a look at all the countries that did that during WW2. Hitler rolled his tanks in and the US ended up having to use force to bail them out. The world does not work the way you think. Leaders and extremists are not rational and they will not listen.
"Unless you take away the reasons they exist, they will exist. Violence can only take away these reasons by killing everyone, innocent civilians included. And that is not an expectable way."
The reason goes beyond the US. Their religion has existed for thousands of years. This is their reason, which may not stop until the entire world is muslim and under their control. Would that satisfy you?
Both want to make you 'right' at the barrel of a gun, or explosion of a bomb.
Not entirely true. Western culture is a very seductive culture- lots of people want to partake in it. We have the coolest gadgets, we have flashy, entertaining movies, we have catchy pop songs, and we even occasionally have decent food. Our popular culture indulges in a good bit of hedonism as well.
This pisses off those who would impose islamic rule to no end- given the choice, most people choose to partake in Western society at some level, and leave the trappings of Islam alone.
The troubles are admittedly all tied in with Oil, but not in the way popularly believed. The west needs oil- no argument. We can find it in the middle east- no argument. Western companies make deals with whoever is in power to extract this oil. The deal? A steady income for those in power. What do they do with it?
Partially at least they buy and import western gadgets and culture. What else would they do with it in the middle east? This culture that they import is at quite often completely at odds with Islamic practices and theology, but it's wanted by the people themselves.
This creates a problem for those who want to impose Islamic rule, and also creates a good deal of Shame for the same people, because they are incapable of producing anything as desirable as the west gladly sells to anyone.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
You're forgetting Harry Stanley, an "Irish terrorist" who turned out to be a Scottish guy walking home from the pub. They got away with claiming he was pointing a table leg at them despite the fact that they shot him in the back of the head.