Slashdot Mirror
BBC Reports UK-U.S. Terror Plot Foiled
j823777 was one of several readers to point out a BBC report that "A terrorist plot to blow up planes in mid-flight from the UK to the U.S. has been disrupted, Scotland Yard has said. It is thought the plan was to detonate up to three explosive devices smuggled on aircraft in hand luggage.
Police have arrested 21 people in the London area after an anti-terrorist operation lasting several months. Security at all airports in the UK has been tightened and delays are reported. MI5 has raised the UK threat level to critical — the highest possible."
spo0nman adds a link to the Associated Press's coverage.
Update: 08/10 12:57 GMT by T : Several readers have pointed out new restrictions imposed as a result of this plot on passengers' carry-on luggage. In the UK, nearly all possession (including laptop computers) must be carried in the cargo hold; while their rules don't yet go quite as far, U.S. airlines are stepping up their enforcement of carry-on-restrictions, including banning substances like toothpaste.
Good work over there at Scotland Yard!
The threats have not been "avoided", merely "postponed", until the terrorists have another/different idea, and/or security gets a little lax again.
From TFA: "Passengers are not allowed to take any hand luggage on to any flights in the UK, the department said."
Only passports, wallets.
The mind boggles. No computers, books, iPods, bottles of water, sunglasses?
Smoking, alcohol, and sex are already off-limits or difficult. I hope these are really short flights, and the planes have plenty of distractions for the passengers, otherwise we'll wonder if being blown up is not the better alternative.
First, congratulations to the Security Services for foiling this plot.
Did they need to detain someone for 90 days without trial to prevent this disaster?
Would ID cards have helped?
And how long before I can travel with my notebook onto an aeroplane again, as we all know a cargo hold is no place for a lithium ion battery?
No liquids or gels can be brought on board.
Reduce the "clutter" in your luggage so the inspectors have a clear view.
Medicine is ok and baby formula but be prepared to show it to the inspector.
Call carrier to see how early you have to arrive.
Have fun flying?!.
Well, maybe this time there was really something. Let's wait a week or so until things are more clear before shouting things like this.
-- Cheers!
I wonder if the mousse in my hair will get me a trip to gitmo...
Not if your airplane breaks the time barrier and lands in 1986.
WHY do these terrorists specifically hate those of us who are scared of flying??
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
I must say, this is the first thing that went through my mind when I read the news about that plot. One thing that's almost certain is that no official will release any detail on that plot, on the pretex t that it's an ongoing investigation and that it's top-secret, therefore the public doesn't have any opportunity to check whether this was true or made-up, who the 21 arrested people are, what they were up to, etc... Some details will be released later, when it doesn't really matter anymore if there was foul play or not.
Even if this plot is real, and in a sense I wish it is because otherwise it's a sad day for our democracies, it's not normal that the agencies that have foiled it can brush public scrutiny with the now-usual "it's a secret, trust us" statement.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Current information coming over the Beeb is that the plot may have included up to 9 planes simultaneously or in successive waves.
Explosives are suspected to have been carried on in hand luggage as liquids, suggesting that they were planning to use binary agents (where two non-explosive chemicals are mixed to form a 3rd reactive substance).
Currently travelers from the UK are being told that (IIRC) they may board the planes with absolutely no more than 7 carryon items, limited to a select list such as:
- 1 book
- 1 newspaper
- wallet
- passport
etc.
-Styopa
Please note that MI5 said 'disrupted', not 'foiled'. The impact that this event has caused can definitely be considered a significant success by the planning organisation or anyone aligned with their goals, if not as much as they wished.
Mind you, it might actually serve some interests better for tens of millions of people to be worried, inconvienced, or annoyed than for airliners to explode.
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything." (attrib. Joseph Stalin)
"Or, you could say, until we stop bombing the shit out of/subjugating/exploiting the third world in general..."
That is quite simplistic. Did you realize that the main beef of the Madrid bombers was that Spain had driven out Muslim invaders hundreds of years ago? It's too easy to dismiss everything as "the oppressed Third World being forced to strike back at First World oppressors", especially if you subscribe to very simplistic Marxist world-views and lack critical thinking.
Where were you when the voynix came?
One attack every 5 years. Sounds to me (and I guess everyone who lives in an area that deals or dealt with terrorist attacks on a daily base) not too threatening.
Giving up civil liberties for that? Hardly worth it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
We've known about a likely plot to blow up several planes.
Now, the perpetrators have been arrested, and anyone else who may have been involved is potentially compromised, so will probsbly not risk carrying it out. As a result, an attack is less likely. So the alert level has gone up.
How about this time we wait to see some genuine evidence presented before we congratulate people for stopping a 'plot'. Because recently we've seen people arrested and even shot dead on the basis of bogus evidence.
Security at airports is not 'tightened' it's fucking impossible. Anyone travelling from the UK to the USA will find that it's quicker to walk.
Ed Almos
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus, 56-120 A.D.
Actually, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing occured during Clinton's Presidency. Also the USS Cole. I think there were a few more.
Does anyone here have more information about what's going on in High Wycombe please?
Cheers,
Ian
I mean the US was never a target of Terrorism when Clinton was president.
Is this sarcastic?
WTC bombing #1, Khobar Towers, US embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, USS Cole.
Whose watch were those on?
Clinton's.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
If you really remember, you will recall certain facts you left out, such as the man was fleeing from police. He created the dangerous situation. If you do such things, especially in a security-critical transportation environment, don't be surprised if you get shot.
No, He wasn't fleeing from the police.
You should really try and get your facts right before you accuse other people.
Why an American flag on a post about a British event?
I often have trouble remembering which way is out of bed in the morning.
Critical isn't the highest possible panic rating. I think at least "the end is near" and "rapture" are higher.
Uhm no. He was quietly sitting inside the carriage; he hadn't jumped the tollbooths, he wasn't wearing a bulky jacket, he wasn't running. Then they pulled him to the ground and shot seven rounds in his head from about ten centimeters distance. Check the facts, man. Also, the guy was called Jean Charles de Menezes and he continues to be a nasty smudge on the reputation of the London Metropolitan Police, who have otherwise made sure, after an internal investigation, that they're not to blame at all for his death.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
Of course, what will happen now is the the TSA or the FAA is going to ban all carryon liquids on air travel, and just for good measure will throw in food. So now that the airlines don't offer free food on flights, anyone want to start a pool on when the free sodas on the airplane will suddenly become very expensive? Put me down for Aug 18, 2006.
I'm not trying to suggest that this is some sort of plot by the airlines to charge higher drink prices. I don't think any such thing. I'm simply saying that this is the likely result of the inane government action that will innevitably follow: banning all carryon fluids on all commercial flights.
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
The wolf likes it when the boy cries out, it makes things so much easier.
- These characters were randomly selected.
This happened in Britain, not the US.
Granted, the flights that were probably going to be targeted were US bound, but surely it's within the abilities of the Conspiracy to organise all of this is the USA in order to fulfil their Evil Schemes more effectively?
---
"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing and it was everything that I thought it could be."
...more angry about the hassle this causes, than anything else? Terrorists spread terror, so they've hit their mark. By being foiled the plot does an amazing amount of damage on its own, spreading FUD.
I don't feel any safer by having my liquids/toenail clippers/pocket vibe/ipod/laptop taken away from me, when there are plenty of other ways to kill/be killed that airlines have no control over. I am more angry at terrorists for making American privacy close(er) to extinction than anything else. With a "war" on "terror" there are going to be casualties, my water consumption/music listening/laptop using/game playing/phone usage habits shouldn't be at the top of the list.
Why does the scapegoat have to be the common citizen?
when you are reporting the truth.
The fact is and has always been the same. Radical Islam wants to destroy the West. The best way to bring down their target is through fear. Ignoring it got us in the mess in the first place.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
>One thing that's almost certain is that no official will release any detail on that plot
I have been watching BBC news for the last 30 minutes (I live in the UK). Considerable detail has already been released and it's still the first day of the operation.
We have been told:
* Liquid explosives were planned to be hidden in soft drinks bottles (hence the ban on liquids).
* The explosives would be detonated over the atlantic (to ensure maximum fatalities).
* The attack would come in waves. As things start to clam down after the first wave, another wave was to be launched.
* The deah toll would be greather than 9/11.
According to US spokespeople:
* The investigation has been "critical" for about 2 weeks.
Compared to the vague information you hear from US alerts, this seems *much* more credible.
Unless these restrictions are lifted, I don't think I'll ever be able to fly anywhere. Yes, I understand the need to a sensible level of security, but I see this as going too far.
I used to suffer from depression, and it has left me with the remnants of social anxiety. I can function out and about quite easily, but with very definite limits. Crowds still mess my head up. Queues fill me with dread. I need to travel with something to take my mind of things - often to shut out the world and people around me.
I also have a fair bit of not-exactly-cheap equipment that goes with me everywhere. There are things that do not get let out of my site. My laptop, for example, comes to work with me when I have a house-inspection. I trust my colleagues more than an inspector I've never met. Yet I'd be expected to fly long-haul without carrying it in my arms?
Yes, I know I'm probably slightly paranoid. But for one thing I've had things broken before when they were with people I didn't know or trust. And secondly, it's another holdover from my depression.
And right this very minute I feel extremely uncomfortable. I see an all-too-possible threat of increased security measures invading our lives to a greater extent, where the existing ones already feel too much.
Plus the idea of being stuck taking my holidays without ever leaving the UK[*] kinda fill me with dread.
[*] 'Cos I can't see these measures not spreading to Eurostar, somehow.
Tiggs
"120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
Just yesterday, the UK Home Secretary was in the news saying that "we may have to modify some of our freedoms in the short-term" to protect us from evil terrorists. Given the degree of preparedness demonstrated by various services today, it seems pretty obvious that he was aware of the current situation when he made those remarks -- thus it also seems clear that he was shape people's opinion in preperation for the events that are now unfolding in public today.
See: Terror 'may force freedom curbs'.
Why are planes and airports apparently such an appealing target for terrorism? If I really wanted to do some damage to civilians i'd go to a sold out college football game (very little security) and blow a chunk out of the stadium. If I wanted to do some damage to the government then I'd find some fairly small military building to blow up. And lastly, if I wanted to do something that would get a ton of media attention, i'd blow up a water tower or some sort of public monument.
The only reason I could think that planes are so attractive is that you only have to overtake several people and once you are in the cockpit, you are free to do whatever you want without revolt. Unless you have specific plans to use the plane (not just blow it up while its in flight) or hold the passengers hostage, it doesn't seem like a very great capture. I suppose one other advantage is that the terrorist doesn't have to worry about being stabbed to death with nail clippers that bystanders had on them since you can be sure the airport security took those all away.
friends of mine are flying home from UK to Australia soon. With two small kids. And under the restrictions, no kids toys. 18 hours with two kids and nothing to keep the occupied.
I suspect the rest of the plane would prefer a terrorist attack.
I arrived at Heathrow for an early flight to Frankfurt just as news was breaking for this at about 06:00. It was a tough decision to part with my laptop, PDA and mobile but I decided to take my chances. It only really then dawned on me the extent to which I depend on these items when I was waiting for hours to clear security... While I could have found a public payphone, all my phone numbers are stored in my mobile & PDA and I actually remember very few of them. I could speak to people, after somehow getting their numbers, but they could not call me back. All the usual channels that are normally avalable to me to get information about a delay were unavailable to me - no web access or even SMS messages to friends with access. You just have to stand in a queue like a sheep.
:)
I didn't take my flight in the end, despite it being one of the few that wasn't cancelled - when I finally got to the gate they still had an additional delay of over an hour and I was only due to be there one day. With half of it gone, and the prospects of being able to fly back to the UK this evening looking distinctly dubuious, I offloaded myself.
This was obviously an inconvenience for me, but I have nothing but praise for our security services who foiled this and the airport staff who managed to handle the whole thing pretty well, considering.
As has been reported, items allowed were limited to wallets/travel documents and baby/health-specific products. However, many of us brought books and papers with us also. Interestingly, Duty Free shops were open airside - although I didn't see if any electronics shops were. The focus this morning was really on what can be brought from landside to airside and they didn't seem to have thought about what you buy airside so much (although I would speculate that electronic items bought airside do not pose such a threat in that trrrsts would use pre-modified devices to detonate explosives). The search at security was a remove shoes, belts etc. job - rather like being in the US
It will be very interesting if this policy is made permanent. Like many companies mine has a policy of not putting laptops into checked luggage - for good reason. And when you are on the move much of the time you need your tools to keep productive - I've previously found time in the lounge or on board to be really valuable sometimes. However, I think in light of all the other ways that security can be compromised this can't continue as an indefinite measure - the risk:hassle/cost ratio is all wrong.
That's a good point, actually - does this situation really merit that the "UK threat level" to be set to "critical -- the highest possible"? At the highest possible threat level I'd really expect to be worried for my life the moment I stepped out of the front door, anywhere in the UK. No, inside my house - at the highest possible threat level I should be scared to make a cup of tea in case the water supply is poisoned or look under the bed in case there's a monster.
We are not being shelled, we are not being invaded, we are not under attack, we still have a higher risk of dying from heart disease. By calling this situation "the highest possible threat level" the government is whipping up fear and paranoia, and MI5 runs the very real risk of inuring people to any real UK-wide dangers that may come along.
Wonder what they were planning to use? Pop Rocks and soda or the new hotness of Mentos and soda?
Some points:
1. The British authorities have a record of attempting to conjure 'terrorist threats' out of nothing in order to increase public support for unpopular foreign and domestic policy decisions.
2. If the UK really is under threat of "imminent attack" and there really is credible intelligence on which to base that belief, then shouldn't the PM be in the UK and not on a Caribbean beach?
One cannot be certain at this early stage that this is a mere PR exercise - but neither is it appropriate to suspend scepticism entirely. Especially given the track record of this goverment.
And, like with falsifying creationism, there is no way to be certain the plot was genuine -- at most, you can prove a given plot was staged up.
And, given the repeated circumstances in which plots that were "staged up" actually ended up in shredded bodies in London, Madrid, and elsewhere, you don't see people who have actually chosen their flights and are in possesion of actual explosives to be worth stopping?
In this case, I would rather believe the conspiracy theorists -- no sane intelligence agency would wait until the terrorists are about to board the planes.
As you've perhaps noticed, they were not walking up to or sitting down on airplanes at the time. They made the arrests before that stage, but only after they were comfortable with having as many of the people in the cell as possible accounted for. If they'd acted sooner, they may have lost more of the cell. There are thousands of variables at play here, and the number of people in intel and law enforcement that have to coordinate on such a thing (including the ones who have to be ready to capitalize on the international communications and other business that would have immediately erupted the moment this hit the news) is enormous.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
At the risk of being accused of covert racism, it's perhaps worth pointing out just how much of the UK government is controlled by Scots, from the Prime Minister down. The Scots have something of a reputation for violence and aggression, and if you want to point out that the Rt Hon Anthony Blair, MA, Barrister-at-Law is an upper class Scottish lawyer, it was just such an upper class Scottish lawyer that organised the Glencoe massacre, for his own advantage.
Actually, I think our police and security services on the whole do a pretty good job, especially outside London (where there is a lot of institutional corruption.) But they deserve better politicians.
Pining for the fjords
Mind you, it might actually serve some interests better for tens of millions of people to be worried, inconvienced, or annoyed than for airliners to explode.
Nah. They'd rather that the planes had exploded. That plays much, much better on Al Jazeera. This cannot be cited as a "victory" by the jihaddis backing it, and if they had knocked the planes down, they'd also have the extra inconvenience and worry, as frosting on that cake. No... this is a win for the good guys, and probably really frustrating to the backers that obviously put a lot of time and effort into recruiting all of these would-be suicide bombers, training them, supplying them, etc. You can bet that there are some pre-recorded Zawahiri video tapes that will now not be seeing airtime since this attack was stopped.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Not necessarily: the UK government has been reducing our freedoms steadily for several years (removal of right to silence, reductions in rights to trial by jury, identity cards, tracking all car journeys etc etc). That's just the sort of thing that home secretaries say from time to time, to justify it all.
Honestly what is the goal behind terrorism? Has it done anything for their cause besides rain more crap down on the people they claim they are fighting for?
Cynicism in the US is reaching an all-time high. Half the population blames the government or accuses it of conspiracy no matter what the government does. We need more effective ways of countering the enemy's FUD. We have multiple CSPAN channels broadcasting government live and embedded reporters and still most of the citizenry would rather read and believe tabloids, kooks and extremist blogs. Guess what, you are the government. You are the military. Look at the history of the world and realize that there ARE people who will kill you because they don't like your GOD or covet what you have or have been taught since childhood to hate you out of existence.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
dude, it's a laptop, not a spleen. yeah it's retarded and we shouldn't have to, but being distracted by the real world for 6 hours isn't going to kill you. it can't, i mean you won't have anything on your person to do it with anyways.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
You're completely right - this is merely wimpy, pussy-like reactive defence.
We should be out there like real men, pro-actively fighting the terrorist threat... by educating people, improving their quality of life, allowing them self-determination and treating them fairly - that's how you stop terrorism, by taking away its recruits.
Oh, sorry, you meant we should be go stomping into countries which might or might not even support them and blow up or shoot a lot of brown people. I can see how that would stop all the other brown people who weren't terrorists before. And it'll certainly not prompt any of them to become terrorists. Good plan!
Thoughts for the day:
Terrorism's only raw material is recruits.
You can kick over snowmen all day long - they'll keep popping because anyone can make them. However, remove the supply of snow and there will be no more snowmen.
Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
I realize you are a troll because no one could possibly be THAT ignorant, but we also have:
1) 1979 Iranian hostage affair
2) 1983 U.S Embassy bombing in Beruit
These were the beginnings of Middle East terrorist organizations specifically targetting the U.S. You can try to blame it on the U.S meddling in Mid-east affairs, but that is a cover-up for the real reason. The fact is, Islam has not progressed beyond the time of the Crusades and anyone who does not follow Islam must be converted or killed. Yes, there was a time that Christianity followed a similar precept, but they finally moved on. Unfortunately, there is no way to win against this type of belief except by killing them all.
I hate to break it to you Bush-haters, but the only thing Kerry could have done to change things is establish Islam as the new national religion of the U.S. You people need to get your heads out of the political trash heap and realize that none of this is about what we've done -- it's about who we are. These people don't care about your political leanings except as a tool to build sympathy for the devil. They would just as soon see you lying dead next to W.
THAT is the reality we face.
Monday: The thread level has been raised to level 5
Tuesday: The thread level has been raised to level 12.
Wednesday: The thread level has been raised to level 25.
Thursday: The thread level has been raised to level 148.
Friday: The thread level has become a super-sayan.
but for some reason that isn't news
We're at war with the Soviets^D^DTerrorists...
And we just has a glorious victory !
next up the 20 minutes of hate?
then back to work, business as usual..
We don't even need a war, just the illusion of one, thank you minitrue for real and complete reports of whats going on, and thank you miniplenty for lowering the oil prices to a historic low of 20$ pr gallon...
the current war on terror is quite like the war in 1984. Where the main purpose of the war was not to capture territories or resources, but rather to reduce the freedoms of the populaces. after the liberation of iraq, iraqies gained some and lost some, but people of the eu and us lost freedom. This victory will no doubt show that our forces are good and fine and great, and with more funding they'd be even better. now they have tightened airport security, most notably by requiring all carryons to be carried in clear plastic bags.
They're no doubt already discussing how to make security even better, as we speak. I'm not saying terrorism isn't real, but it's certainly been boosted since we started taking it seriously. I'm not saying the government is trying to take away your freedoms, but I do think they're forgetting what it is the silverware of civilisation that they're remoulding to shoot werewolves (monsters none of us really know much about). The governments are more worried about the deaths of a max. 5000 citizens the last five years, than meeting the big challenges we're facing (reducing bureaucracy, informing the intolerant, helping developing countries, improving pluralistic democracy, increasing education levels, getting humans to think)
So what if they kill a few of us, including some leaders, democracy is strong because it is NOT dependant on one person, but when too few cares, it becomes a defacto oligarchy.Blah blah sig blah blah blah irony blah blah
* The investigation has been "critical" for about 2 weeks.
If there was a critical threat to the UK, how come the PM flew out on holiday two days ago?
I can only assume that Tony Blair at least wasn't particularly concerned about this "imminent threat" .
Spoken like a true American. We tend to forget pretty quickly. Umm... remember this from October? Probably not. In fact, I couldn't remember any of the specific plots we foiled, other than Richard Reid (if we can even count the Brits acting on US intel as a win for us).
I think its more a cultural difference, though. American journalists like panic! blood! chaos! I bet you might remember the UNC student who ran down some of his fellow students, or the Muslim fellow in Seattle that shot 6 people (including a pregnant woman) attending synagogue, or the other guy that shot up El Al... Notice that we are enemy #2 (sandwiched between Israel and the UK), but of these, we've had the fewest terrorist acts in our country since 9/11. That means we are stopping attacks. The reason we only hear about failures and not successes is that our media doesn't report when our side wins, they only report catastrophes (I recommend Michael Crichton's State of Fear -- it's well researched and covers this and quite a few other topics).
They're spazzing here at the Indianapolis International Airport.
Anytime the morning shows (Today, GMA, etc.) break back to local coverage, it's about twenty-one people being arrested on the Heathrow side, a warning to anyone expecting to leave Indy [that] no liquids, not even hair gels will be permitted (except in checked-in luggage, and people are in some serious (and slow) lines to check this luggage after adjusting everything.
The other time consumer consists of people waiting to pick up all of their baggage.
It shouldn't be that big a deal, but because so many people typically have one or two carry-ons, or one carry-on, and one check-in, their travel pattern|philosophy is shot and they're out of their element.
Although they haven't stated as much, one gets the feeling there's an issue with binary solutions, not a singular.
One of the other issues is one of the items on the taboo list looks pretty much like baby formula.
Does this (no formula) mean kids can't ride and there won't be any screaming brats on our flights? (God can only hope)
Yes, the cargo space is pressurized and mostly heated. That's where animals/pets travel. Wouldn't do to have Fluffy suffocated and freeze-dried.
Did they also find Mr. X???
Now, THAT would be impressive, what with his 2x and Black Tickets and all...
No. It will mean that all infants on board will be screaming non-stop. Ever heard a hungry (no, not cranky, _hungry_) baby cry ? You better bring earplugs. And hearing protection.
Gotta love it.. absofreakinglutely nothing happens until election time. Whatever happened to the Florida terrorist group that made headlines last time the prezs numbers were hitting the floor?
Has it ever occurred to you that election time is exactly when these clowns would deliberately seek to launch such an attack? Have you completely forgotten how Al Qaeda directly, and in their own favor, manipulated Spanish elections by being willing to slaughter Spaniards?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
The man was NOT fleeing from the police, he was running to catch a train that was about to leave. The police didn't shout at him until after he was *seated* in the train, and the police had to put a foot in the sliding door of the tube train to prevent the door closing because it was on the verge of leaving - that's why Menezes was running for the train. He didn't start to run, according to witnesses, until he saw that there was a train in the platform. He didn't vault a ticket barrier (he used his Oyster card to enter the station). He wasn't wearing heavy winter clothing; he was wearing a denim jacket (as the photographs in evidence show).
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Carry-on luggage is nothing but a total hassle for other passengers and crewmembers. I have seen people trying to stuff three-suiter suitcases in overhead bins and I have had my single small convention handout bag, which contained my eyeglasses, crushed when some assclown tried to stuff just one more over packed garment bag/steamer truck into the bin. Perhaps they could allow one small bag per passenger, limited to the size of a regular attaché case (and a purse counts toward the limit) -- and then strictly ENFORCE the limits.
The next problem I can see is people wearing vests with oversized pockets that will be sold specifically to circumvent the carry-on bag limit.
Another issue is that airlines have stopped serving meals and are encouraging people to carry their own lunches onto the plane. Perhaps seat 12C's cold drink is Binary Part A (which is reasonably safe to drink) and seat 20D's cold drink is Binary Part B (which is also reasonably safe to drink, although it tastes worse than Part A). The term "mystery meat" could also take on a whole new meaning when it is in a sandwich that is carried onto an airplane.
I wonder this too, but a bomb on a plane in flight will probably kill everyone on board - not so in a shopping mall.
Higher kill ratio.
Spectacular.
Passengers on a plane tend to be more affulent.
The monetary loss of the plane itself is very high.
Disrupts air travel leading to wider economic perturbations.
I guess that is why they are after planes. But also they go for busses and trains and nightclubs.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
News are saying that 21 people have been arrested, and 9/11 death toll was 2976 people (according to wikipedia, other sites I saw gave similar numbers). To attain this number, each of the 21 attackers would have to kill 2976/21 = 141 people per plane, which seems reasonable. That, of course, is assuming only 1 attacker per plane... Wouldn't it be more probable that there were at least 2 attackers per plane? In that case, killing 283 people per plane seems too much... Which might indicate that not all the attackers are under custody.
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
actually, it's far more effective to detonate them over land when they are at cruising altitude... remember Lockerbie... I certainly do... I did not enjoy my Christmas that year as I was a member of the search parties for the bodies... a right mess that was... spread over hundreds of square miles...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
The attack would come in waves. As things start to clam down after the first wave, another wave was to be launched.
On the radio this morning (a Washington, D.C., news station) there was reference to a planned 3 attacks over 3 days. I found that odd--if successful simultaneous detonations were carried out, wouldn't the plotters assume that security would immediately be tightened to the point where the chances of succeeding on subsequent days would be much lower?
Actually what i think is there is a great deal of difference between plots being fabricated or not.
In case they are fabricated, it means that there is a group of people with access to power in the country, the likes of people that can do anything to do what is in their and their supporting circle's best interests, no matter what and how it is being done or who gets harmed.
this is way more dangerous than external terrorist threat, which can be avoided with adequate security.
It is much harder to get rid of the 'terrorists' at home.
Read radical news here
If you're blowing yourself up anyway, you don't give a damn about long-term poisonous effects.
I think you could make an explosive that is not a fast poison. If it is foul-tasting and you make a funny face, oh well... people do that with baby formula and saved breast milk too.
Basically: suspend a powdered high-explosive in something thick and colorless, like glycerin. (a powdered oxidizer should work well too, but I can't think of one that wouldn't be a fast-acting poison)
Sheesh... how hard is that?
Probably you could make an explosive mouse pad or keyboard rest.
No more waiting FOREVER for the douchebags who refuse to check luggage to heave their crap out of the overhead compartments! This should aid in the speed of boarding and exiting the plane considerable.
Of course, on a trans-atlantic flight, that one book had best be a thick one!
Blar.
They're trying, why do you think the US government refuses to lower its carbon emmisions?
I believe that this is true, but I expect all emphasis to be similarly scaled up for effect. In this case, "we need more surveillance powers".
Wikileaks, no DNS
If there was a critical threat to the UK, how come the PM flew out on holiday two days ago?
.
I can only assume that Tony Blair at least wasn't particularly concerned about this "imminent threat"
I'm seeing this argument all over this threat. I've replied elsewhere, but will do so again here.
You would like him to cancel his pre-announced holiday, so he can be in the country to oversee an operation over which he has no jurisdiction nor direct involvement, while at the same time tipping off any terrorist (or potential terrorist) groups that something big enough (such as their imminent arrest) has come up to cause him to cancel his holiday?
If the PM cancels going abroad (for holiday or business) whenever there's going to be an anti-terrorist action, then terrorist groups will quickly learn to always plan their attacks for when the PM is meant to be away. If he cancels his holidays, you pack up, go underground, or act immediately, on the (fairly good) grounds that you're rumbled, and if you wait, you're going down Paddington nick in the back of a heavily guarded police van, and not coming out again for a long, long time.
The logic simply doesn't hold up when you think about it. It's like Churchill's decision not to increase defences in or around Coventry, despite having advance knowledge of a very heavy raid being due. He acted like he knew nothing. The raid went ahead. There were heavy casualties, which could have been prevented. But the German military remained unaware that many of their most important communications were being intercepted, decoded and read by British intelligence.
I'm not likening Blair to Churchill, or terrorist attacks to The Blitz; but the military strategy is sound; if you know about something, then act normal. Your intelligence and surprise remain intact, and they are two essential advantages in any conflict.
'No rational religion claims "supernatural" exists, that's an atheist slander.' - seen on slashdot.
He wasn't fleeing anyone. He walked slowly all the way, until he got into the recently arrived carriage and sat down comfortably into the first available seat. Then the police stormed in and shot him.
He wasn't wearing a bulky jacket but jeans, he didn't have wires protuding, he didn't jump over the underground ticket machines, he didn't even run from anyone.
The police killed an innocent man and they got away with it.
We should be out there like real men, pro-actively fighting the terrorist threat... by educating people, improving their quality of life, allowing them self-determination and treating them fairly - that's how you stop terrorism, by taking away its recruits.
How does any of that change the ideological basis for most of today's current terrorism? IE, Islam, literally, submission.
Your theory might work for gang-banging ghetto thugs, but for murderers who think they're doing Allah's work your view is entirely naive. This is ideological war, make no mistake. I'm not saying every Muslim is a terrorist or even sympathetic to them but you're being willfully blind of the common thread between them all.
Moreover, many US Muslims, despite having everything you wish to give terrorists, sympathize with or outright finance terrorists. The guy who just went on a shooting spree in a Jewish community center was apparently very well employed, and what came of it? Murder.
We are fighting people who think it is the will of Allah to convert you to Islam, make you submit as a Dhimmi, or kill you. If you think American ultra-right religous conservatives are so evil, why is it such a stretch to see that taken much further , 'faith' can lead to murder?
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
And why wouldn't these have been caught by the chemical sniffers in the security check points? The hidden drug/bomb dogs in the airport? Why all the new security? Why wouldn't our normal airport security have caught these guys in the airport?
Note: You need a sizable hole punched in a plane to make it break up. An entire chunk of the fuselage needs to be removed. Explosive decompression doesn't occur from small basketball sized holes.
I'm just here for the Bud Light.
I have to travel for work sometimes. I have a work-issued laptop I have to bring.
Taking Northwest as an example-- the maximum luggage reimbursement allowance (what they'll pay you if they lose or break your stuff) is $2800. That's not enough to cover the laptop, let alone a suit or two and my precious, precious t-shirts. You can buy extra coverage for $1 per $100 of extra value, but even that has a maximum value cap at $5000.
A new laptop, a decent camera or PDA, and a couple of suits put you over that mark. The average business traveller is suddenly unable to even GET enough coverage for the luggage they're required to check. And heaven help you if you're like my coworkers who sometimes have to bring a pair of laptops with them-- you'll lose thousands if they lose or damage your luggage.
Given how they treat checked luggage, I'd be backing up important files onto the biggest SD card you can afford, and cramming it in your wallet.
I mean this looks like a PR release to me. One of the tasks of the police is to protect the citizens and prevent them to become uneasy. While releasing this information to the public shows that the police is doing its job, it also injects some fear into the population. And we all know that fear leads to power.
...Together, they created today's nightmare vision of a secret organized evil that threatens the world, a fantasy that politicians then found restored their power and authority in a disillusioned age. And those with the darkest fears became the most powerful...
To quote from 'The Power of Nightmares':
Government cannot make man richer, but it can make him poorer. - Ludwig von Mises
Honestly what is the goal behind terrorism?
This is a tough question, and I'm glad somebody is asking it. My thoughts haven't spent much time on your specific question, although I have often thought about the question of why is it that somebody becomes a terrorist.
The best answer I can come up with is simple desperation. If you are living a life where you see children beggin in the streets and starving to death, you tend to get pretty upset. Now, imagine that you are witnessing a world where poverty abounds, despite the fact that the land you're living on is incredibly rich of natural resources (ie, oil).
Meanwhile, the people that are using your resources have so much wealth that the problem of starvation has been replaced by the problem of obesity.
I don't know about you, but that kind of observation would make me pretty damn pissed off. If you take this anger and mix it in with a long history of conflicting social / political / religious ideologies, add a bit misguided leadership, and mix well, I'm not surprised that there are terrorists out there in the world.
You want real security in the world? Try creating global equality. Don't give up freedoms, give up the notion of cheap gas, or cheap imported goods. Live a simpler life so that people in developing nations can afford the same standard of living that you can.
Unfortunately, I don't hear anybody saying these things. Instead, I hear how we have to be strong and clamp down, "smoke them out."
What happens then? Conditions get worse for the already desperate, creating more possible terrorists, which creates more of a clampdown, which creates worse conditions, etc.
Trumped up nonsense, generatetd by our "gurdians".
:-)
And the U.S. will have t' do without toothpaste, emulating the dental characteristics that make us in the UK world famous.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Having been on a plane that has caught fire (thankfully we had just landed), let it be known that the crew is very fast at putting it out. They are trained for this sorts of situations, so you'd have to start one hell of a damn fire very quickly (so it is large before the smoke alarms and smoke is all over) or it will be put out before doing much other than torching a bathroom.
Course not - much more important to have the real terrorists alive for interrogation.
If you're a real terrorist - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasin_Hassan_Omar - refuse to surrender, have a rucsack with you (all allegedly), then you just get a taser.
[ Of course this was criticised by the head of the Met police, who couldn't do anythign else really since it undermines his we-must-shoot-innocent-people-in-the-head style of policing ]
For sure.
All terrorists are just mad religious zealots, and no external factors has anything to to with it.
Relatives dying screaming, as USA dropped or payed for firebombs eat their flesh, has nothing to do with it.
The USA sponsoring repressive regimes has nothing to do with it.
The USA invading countries and killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians has nothing to do with it.
Relatives starving to death due to sanctions has nothing to do with it.
Nope, they're just crazies that want to destroy our democracy and convert us to their heathen religion. It's not that they just want us to stop killing and starving them. That's an entirely unrelated matter.
I don't know why I didn't think of that. You are absolutely right.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
Note also the bit about having to drink any baby milk - previously held to be only an urban legend
Of course, terrorists don't drink unhealthy substances in the last hours before a suicide attack.
Trust me, I work for the government.
These provisions are supposed to be temporary - lets hope they remain that way but I'm not going to hold my breath. I don't think its hard to make explosives by mixing liquids together. When I was in high school back home in India, we had complete access to a whole range of chemicals in lab, we didn't use gloves, goggles or a lab coat, and we didn't have to ask anybodys permission to enter it, take what we wanted, and mix them together. Even with dilute high school quality chemicals we could make simple explosives, and did for shits and giggles. We even had a helpful chemistry textbook to warn us about mixtures that were volatile. The benefits of a CBSE education in a private school. We were incredibly stupid. I look back at that time and marvel that I have all my fingers, though I do have a friend who is almost deaf in one year as a result of his fooling around. That particular bang cracked a large inch thick cement flower pot, and was in a bloody 500ml beaker. It is not hard to believe that with access to stronger chemicals you could make lethal explosives. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of people with the will to blow up other people. So yes the threat is credible. Worse despite this success I don't think that security forces can change, move and keep up with the technology to counter terrorists without instituing a police state. Lots of people have pointed out that terrorists could just as easily bomb buses/trains/discos/sporting events whatever. There seems to be no way to protect everyone at everyplace. I'm pretty certain most of us /.ers don't want a police state. Increased isolationism isn't much of an answer. Killing the terrorists doesn't seem to work unless you listen to the "nuke them all" crazies and frankly I'm more scared of them than the terrorists. Giving your entire population military training seems like an even worse idea, because you just trained a whole bunch of extremists in the process. In an ideal world we could teach everyone to play nice and they would. And there would be unicorns.
Theres something very badly wrong with our global political system. I don't know how to change it but I think we are seeing the first cracks in it. I'd suspect that addressing the crazy disparities in quality of life would help matters a lot. There really is no short term fix. You need better education, you need a population whose size reflects the resources that are available. You need to have people recognize that their identity is human, not national, not religious, not political. I'm not being idealistic - I recognize how very incredibly hard this is, and how very incredbly long this is going to take. I think the problem with what we currently have is that yes things are bad but theres not much hope for things getting better even. If we don't move in that direction I'd guess we are just going to see a more polarized world with different blocs of disgruntled people blowing up each other, for causes they believe are just or for retribution.
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
Interesting that you haven't been modded at all yet, I guess you posted a bit late.
1. The root causes you describe are IMHO correct. I could ramble on about the GINI coefficient (a measure of the distribution of income) and it's correlation to violent crime and war. Trust me, I wrote 65 pages on it.
2. However I don't' believe that the solution you propose is the only, the best or even a workable solution. We know that communism doesn't really work to well, even though there isn't a single real communist country in the world (ala Marx).
3. Ivory tower notions of equality of peoples across the world in representation, ability and wealth are at best ludicrous and at worst dangerous. Instead of looking at the issue purely as humanitarian; i.e. they starve and beg, let's look at it from a cost vs. benefit direction. If I may repeat your argument as I see it from another angle...
If the people who are so exploited have nil chance of being elevated from their situation, then they have little to loose and much to gain by grabbing at power/money/wealth by any means necessary. The only way to gain back that wealth and power is to force those who exploit them to surrender it. Exploited persons can't afford to strike, may don't have the ability to vote, and the foreign interests in their country certainly aren't going to just give them up. Lacking the ability to have a voice at the bargaining table or to make policy they have to do something to shift the paradigm. Guerilla warfare, revolution and terrorism are the only methods they have to make the vastly more potent exploiters reconsider their involvement and allocation in the area. This is how the States won Independence, don't let the revisionist histories fool you, we were really squirrelly, but not quite as mobile.
4. The solution that I believe would work is one that has been used fairly successfully for a long time. Those with the power to do such things change the method of compensation. Instead of simply paying for the oil rights in an area, build a park, a school, a (gasp) mosque. Don't just rape the underclass. Make involvement in their lives not strictly negative, while you get fat. Everyone can profit.
As for the ethnic conflicts...
um... buy them a Coke?!
Just my humble opinion.
"WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."
"A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledgehammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic."
"Your worst enemy, he reflected, was your own nervous system. At any moment the tension inside you was liable to translate itself into some visible symptom."
"Only a person thoroughly grounded in Ingsoc could appreciate the full force of the word bellyfeel, which implied a blind, enthusiastic acceptance difficult to imagine today."
You know, I wish it were true, that I didn't have to connect anywhere. This is how they getcha into buying a higher-priced ticket.
Also, my time measurement was for door to door, and with normal delays. An actual direct flight is only like an hour and a half. But, when you consider these factors:
Besides, I get to see the countryside, do some wardriving, and discuss many things with my SO. No security theatre, plenty of cargo area, far cheaper. Cruising through the amber waves of grain, and purple mountain's majesty -- *that* is part of the American Dream that I was taught, not this Orwellian nonsense.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
Oh and he wasn't innocent. An illegal alien is a criminal under british law. So far most people would not agree that they should be shot on sight but if you want the truth you need to be able to face the whole of the truth.
Live is though, wear a bullet proof vest.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Mod parent +60, Graduated College and Thinks Criticaly Rather Than Assuming Everything is a Government Plot to Get His Weed
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
You are ignorant. You methods breed new fundamentist muslim terrorists.
The correct way is not using any force at all. If you know where they are, send that region economic help. Do everything to increase happiness in that region, and take no violent action whatsoever. If they blow up a plane, just shrug and say "losers", then move one. Don't pay alot of attention to it, they are, just losers after all.
This method will stop recruitment of new fundamental muslims, whereas a violent approach just breeds new ones.
Unless you take away the reasons they exist, they will exist. Violence can only take away these reasons by killing everyone, innocent civilians included. And that is not an expectable way.
- Are there liquid explosives whose components are (relatively) safely drinkable? I say relatively because, if you're a suicide bomber, it really doesn't matter if it will kill you in 24 hours, you just have to be conscious for 2 or 3 hours after drinking the stuff for the security staff.
- Are there liquid explosives which can be made from a drinkable component (or two or three) and (ewwww) urine?
How far do we go with this?1. Falsify terror attack involving liquids
2. Ban any liquid carry-ons
3. Bump up price of airline drinks
4. PROFIT!!!
5. Put ????? into a storage cupboard for later use on slashdot
biopowered.co.uk - catalytically cracking triglycerides for home automotive use since 2008. Just say no to big oil!
I'm running late, so I'll just put the lines on the page and leave space to read between them.
Joe got the boot from a grass roots movement.
The spin machine reminds people that democrats are left wing radicals that are weak on homeland security.
A convenient terror plot spoiled so soon after is suspicious.
I've probably flown on about 40 flights in the US and Europe in the last 5 years and I've never had than happen to me.
"You are ignorant. You methods breed new fundamentist muslim terrorists."
if you do nothing, there will still be new fundamentilist muslim terrorists. So why not at least try to do something? It's foolish to sit back and let someone attack you.
"The correct way is not using any force at all. If you know where they are, send that region economic help. Do everything to increase happiness in that region, and take no violent action whatsoever. If they blow up a plane, just shrug and say "losers", then move one. Don't pay alot of attention to it, they are, just losers after all."
Hehe, you're funny. Take a look at all the countries that did that during WW2. Hitler rolled his tanks in and the US ended up having to use force to bail them out. The world does not work the way you think. Leaders and extremists are not rational and they will not listen.
"Unless you take away the reasons they exist, they will exist. Violence can only take away these reasons by killing everyone, innocent civilians included. And that is not an expectable way."
The reason goes beyond the US. Their religion has existed for thousands of years. This is their reason, which may not stop until the entire world is muslim and under their control. Would that satisfy you?
Alzheimer's patients, sociopaths, serial killers and others are all clinically insane, yet we can and do predict their actions on a regular basis. What's so different about predicting how terrorists behave?
Um, sorry, Alzheimer's disease is a progressive disease, and they're not always insane from a clinical viewpoint - it depends on the exact manifestation and the progression of the disease.
As to sociopaths, be careful what you say about our President. We have laws about that.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Both want to make you 'right' at the barrel of a gun, or explosion of a bomb.
Not entirely true. Western culture is a very seductive culture- lots of people want to partake in it. We have the coolest gadgets, we have flashy, entertaining movies, we have catchy pop songs, and we even occasionally have decent food. Our popular culture indulges in a good bit of hedonism as well.
This pisses off those who would impose islamic rule to no end- given the choice, most people choose to partake in Western society at some level, and leave the trappings of Islam alone.
The troubles are admittedly all tied in with Oil, but not in the way popularly believed. The west needs oil- no argument. We can find it in the middle east- no argument. Western companies make deals with whoever is in power to extract this oil. The deal? A steady income for those in power. What do they do with it?
Partially at least they buy and import western gadgets and culture. What else would they do with it in the middle east? This culture that they import is at quite often completely at odds with Islamic practices and theology, but it's wanted by the people themselves.
This creates a problem for those who want to impose Islamic rule, and also creates a good deal of Shame for the same people, because they are incapable of producing anything as desirable as the west gladly sells to anyone.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
"The reason they exist is for the purpose of violently pushing an agenda. "
And thats how i learned to stop worrying and love the bomb.
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Congratulations, Homer.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
You are a despicable hypocrite. Their grievances are real, stop whitewashing them. I do not enjoy the threat posed by terrorism either, but I do condemn our own actions.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
who have otherwise made sure, after an internal investigation, that they're not to blame at all for his death.
Actually, it was an independent investigation (IPCC), which the Met Police actually tried to prevent from happening.
And also, that investigation did recommend charges against officers involved - a recommendation that was overruled by the CPS who have decided to prosecute the Met as an organistion for health-and-safety breach instead.
In some ways, that decision might acutally have a result (for the rest of us in future) in changes to policy and procedures, where prosecuting individuals would still leave other police following the same flawed procedures.
"The U.S.A. buys oil, and thus transfers massive wealth to the Arab lands. If this does not benefit enough Arab people to suit you, clean your house."
The terrorists are saying, "We could clean our house if the USA would stop propping up tyrannical monarchies and overthrowing democratically elected governments, so we are taking the first step in overthrowing them, which is to remove their military support from the USA."
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
A terrorist organization is like any other organization - it's primary goal is to insure the continuation of the organization.
They start out as a group with a certain goal - erradication if Isreal, independence from a particular government, etc. But the organization then develops, and you get a power structure. People are running the organization, people are members of the organization, people are recruiting new members to the organization. To the people in that oganization, who conduct their lives around the organization's goals, actually ACHIEVING the goal becomes an ancillary concern. Participation is the reward, and for those at the top, being at the top is a strong incentive to keep the organization going.
The only thing that organizations like Islamic Jihad, for example, dislike more than Isreal would be the destruction of Israel - because then you don't need Islamic Jihad anymore. The goal that started the fight has been replaced by the goal of conducting the fight. The IDEOLOGY is still 'Destroy Israel', but the goal of the acts of the organization is merely to perpetuate the organization.
paintball
Yes, send them economic help. In fact, I guarantee you they will be MOST appreciative of this. They will now have even MORE money to use to arm themselves for the coming war against the west.
I actually agree with you here, but only with one minor qualification, the plane that is to be blown-up must be full of fucktard-peace-hippies like yourself. That way I could easily (and happily) shrug and say, "losers". However, this stunning insult would not be directed to the perpetrators of this violence - but to the damn hippies that were on the plane.
Astounding. I agree with 90% of what you say. The 10% that I disagree with is your assertion that the death of innocent civilians is unacceptable. I assert that the death of innocent civilians, while unfortunate, is part of the cost of war. However, the price of NOT destroying these "creatures" is such that the numbers of innocent civilians killed be allowing these islamo-fascits to exist is TRULY unacceptable.
*I'm assuming you actually meant to type acceptable, but due to your "merit based" public education, you simply don't know the difference between the two, and thus "don't talk good".
Is your terror cell living in terror? Is your safe-house not so safe? If so, read the New York Times, the jihad journal.
Wow, I didn't know that the US troops with white phosphorus were Muslim! I learn new things every day!
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Nitroglycerin is a liquid explosive, and nearly the most powerful one there is in terms of KJ/gram of it. The plastiques are more "brisant" which means a faster risetime of the shockwave, better at breaking rocks without tamping and so forth, but only about half the calorie output. To knock out a plane, simple overpressure would seem enough, since you're in a containment vessel, no special need for brisance. In this case, it seems the plotters were planning to use acetone peroxide, an easy to make, brisant (if you don't mind a lot of risk) explosive made from liquids, but which is actually a solid in use. It's less powerful than nitro, more sensitive, and the teeny bombers who inhabit the explosives boards often lose body parts trying to make it. One normally does this at the lowest possible temperatures to prevent premature detonation during manufacture. Maybe at room temperature it just goes off, maybe even before the synthesis is complete. I don't plan to try it here. Not averse to some danger, but gheesh. I know of a *careful* person who got hurt trying it the "right way". On the AP front, one of the components is acetone, which I'd think even a brain dead security person would whiff easily. You'd pass out quick if you drank any amount, and stink. High strength peroxide would release O2 really fast if ingested, and make quite a show. So they're not totally full of it on the drink it test. Interestingly, the "scanners" used to detect explosives won't see quite a number of unconventional ones, existing scanners are looking for a certain density, one at which the normal terrorist explosives (stolen military stuff) work the best. 'Nuff said. And yes, I've informed the DHS about this.
After watching Die Hard 2 one evening quite a while back, I decided to research liquid explosives - because it was a movie, and it seemed plausible to have a 2-part mixed explosive (just like 2-part epoxy), and I did know about nitroglycerin...
What I remember finding was yes, there were such things as one part and two part liquid explosives - but nobody seriously considered them useful because while they were very powerful, they were also very unstable - mixed or unmixed! That is, even the components of a two part explosive were seriously unstable - not something you would want to play around with.
Heck - just last night I saw the Mythbusters episode where they try to make a homemade smokebomb using saltpeter and sugar, cooking it on a stove. Adam was mixing a batch, and was using what I think was a metal spoon (bad idea) and it caught on fire pretty quick (this particular "stunt" they were real stupid to pull inside a building - between it and the methane bubble column they made I am surprise they didn't burn the place down - you don't make homemade explosives indoors without taking any and all precautions, especially if you are new to the task!) - and that wasn't even a particularly unstable mixture (well, more unstable heated, I suppose).
Unless I am mis-remembering what I found about liquid explosives (which is always possible) - it makes a great plot device for a movie, but there is a reason we don't see these explosives used much anymore (we don't even see much use of nitroglycerin or nitrocellulose - aka guncotton - either).
So am I wrong (wouldn't be the first time)? Or am I right, and that this whole "liquid explosives going to be used by terruhists" is nothing more than maybe some cooked up FUD (or at worst, an actual plot in which the perpetrators weren't using liquid explosives, or if they were, would have killed themselves on the way to the airport)?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
It seems that everytime someone tries something bad they ban it from flights. So all I have to do is design exploding underwear (nitrocellulose?) and convince someone to try to carry it on. I'd drop a dime on them before they got on of course. Then just hang out at the airport watching security guards confiscate everyone's undies.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Do you know why the terrorist do and try to do these these terrible things to Britain and the U.S? It's because we have made a tribal war between the Jews and the Muslim world our business when it is none of our business. If we withdrew our monetary support from Israel who is holding the Golan heights, the west bank, and Gaza against the wishes of 60 U.N. resolutions, and we also stopped supporting repressive regimes like Saudi Arabia, I guarantee that the Jews and Muslim's would fall back to fighting amongst themselves and leave us entirely alone. Perhaps this sort of straight talk will make people uncomfortable but I think it's time to break the taboo and speak of these matters plainly and to the point.
Although I consider myself a decentralist Green if I were President of the U.S. I would make an isolationist "conservative" like Pat Buchanan Secretary of State. My FIRST speech as president would be something like the following:
"My fellow AMERICANS, good evening
The United states of America is facing serious internal crises in the 21st century such declining energy supplies, 40 million people who have no access to basic health care, and declining educational standards. From now on the U.S. in a bi-partisan fashion is going to focus on it's own internal affairs and leave other nations and their outdated tribal conflicts to themselves. If other people of the world want to involve themselves in failed nation building exercises that is their choice, but the United States of America shall not participate in these missions and shall maintain a stance of armed neutrality towards other countries like Switzerland while we get our own affairs in order. Focusing on our own affairs will allow us to reduce our military budget by 50% in the first year of my Presidency, allowing us to keep former president Bush's tax cuts to help the economy expand while also allowing us to start drawing down the deficit. If the coming years prove to be peaceful we will slowly start further reductions in the military budget that are the long delayed "peace dividend" we were supposed to receive at the end of the cold war. These funds will be used to build a high speed train system to increase the U.S.'s energy independence to deal with global warming, and reduce our dependence on oil from the troubled middle east. Next we will start a program of HMO vouchers so the poorest among us can gain access to needed health care while retaining the finest privately held medical system in the world. Finally we will increase teacher salaries immediately by 20% and earmark billions to improve the conditions of our schools so the United States can maintain it's edge in global economy in the now maturing information age.
I look forward to a healthy and prosperous future for the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Thank you and good night."
I think sort of stance has a good chance of pleasing both small government isolationist true conservatives, and liberal lefties who would like us to focus more on domestic policy. What's more and getting back to the original topic it will keep us out of the pointless irrational conflicts in the middle east. You don't see people burning Swiss flags on the streets of Beirut, do you?
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
I suspect that Amtrack is behind all of this. By making flying as miserable and as shitty an experience as possible they'll convince everyone to start taking the train.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I thought we were fighting them over there so we didn't have to fight them here. What ever happened to that?
// This is not a sig.
Actually, there's a lot of sound reasoning to this economic strategy. The problem is it takes 30 years and no one is willing to wait that long.
Let's take one small example in Pakistan: Madrasas. Pakistan is too poor to build 'proper' schools for its citizens, so parents send their children to religious schools, known as Madrasas. These Madrasas are free, and often provide food and a roof over the children's heads. They also teach extremism, hatred and intolerance all day long. Here's one article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2054719.stm
If there was funding to provide 'proper' schools in Pakistan then the influence of the Madrasas would diminish - Until then they're breeding ground for children who grow up to be terrorists.
You're forgetting Harry Stanley, an "Irish terrorist" who turned out to be a Scottish guy walking home from the pub. They got away with claiming he was pointing a table leg at them despite the fact that they shot him in the back of the head.
Their grievances are real, stop whitewashing them. I do not enjoy the threat posed by terrorism either, but I do condemn our own actions.
...
...
Have you yet read Osama's "Letter to America" ?
One of the first reasons given for the attack is our support of Israel:
"The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased."
So, do you condemn our support of Israel? You must realize that, without our support, Israel will be "erased". Are we wrong to help prevent the erasure of Israel?
He also tells us what we can do to get back on his good side:
"(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?
(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest."
And apparently Bill's blow-job in the White house is one of the worst kinds of events:
"(iv) You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object.
Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations? "
Do you really believe we deserve to be attacked because the president got is cigar smoked?
you watch too much old batman
watch "the money masters" on google video