Oblivion Polymorph Mod

Via Kotaku, a post on the Oblivion forums on a polymorph mod for Oblivion. The Kotaku story has a video attached, showing the shapechanging in action with a rocking musical background. The mod seems awesome, but I'm not sure I agree with poster Eckhardt's commentary: "This could be just the thing for me to forget how unbearably stagnant and boring I ultimately find Oblivion to be: the ability to transmogrify into huge ogres, gigantic walking sticks and carnivorous cephalopods."

Comments

Agree with sentiment

[meowsqueak]

I concertedly tried to play this on two separate occasions. I agree with the sentiment - under all that gloss, Oblivion is just boring. "Shiny Onion Boring" - the deceptive type that lulls you into a feeling you've *got something here*, but still ultimately boring and unsatisfying once you peel back the layers.

Re:Agree with sentiment

[Greyfox]

Even though it supposedly happens over a bigger area than Morrowind, it feels much smaller. I think adding the fast travel option was probably a mistake. Morrowind also felt like it had a lot more quests. That may be due to the fact that you had to wander around the country side for hours on vague instructions on how to get somewhere. It forced you to explore a lot more, and you ended up feeling like you really knew your way around. Also, the Telvanni were way cooler than the Dark Brotherhood, but that's not due to any of the game mechanics.

The NPCs were a lot better in Oblivion, but they were still pretty... meh... Their scripted rumors got old very quickly and it was very rare that they could surprise me with some behavior I hadn't seen before. The way the quests forced you along in Oblivion was really annoying -- I don't recall there ever being a door you couldn't pick or an NPC you had to kill in Morrowind. I've always hated being forced into taking actions I don't want to take and the oblivion quest system really fell flat there.

That being said, I've more than got my money's worth out of the game. The landscapes were as beautiful as any I've seen in a game and I worked through all the major quest arcs and a lot of the errands that the NPCs send you out on. If they come out with expansions like the original morrowind did I'm sure to buy them (Hell, I wouldn't mind getting the original Morrowind content on the new engine, either.)

Re:Agree with sentiment

[NexFlamma]

I thought so too, for the first hour and a half.

Once I got past that and started to pick up some useful magical weapons, and people started having reactions to me based on what I had done in the past, I found the story to be really engrossing and the quests to be both fun and rewarding. It becomes the kind of game where you keep telling yourself that you'll play for "just 5 more minutes". Of course, those 5 minutes turn into a couple hours.

For anyone who wants to know if they should check this game out, I think you should, but give it some time to grow on you. The beginning is definitely the least cool part of it.

Re:Agree with sentiment

[Petrushka]

Even though it supposedly happens over a bigger area than Morrowind, it feels much smaller. I think adding the fast travel option was probably a mistake.

I appreciated fast travel, but the thing I felt really made Oblivion feel smaller was the long-distance views. Oooo pretty, but still gives a "smaller" feel. Similarly Morrowind with the FPS-optimiser mod makes that feel a lot smaller too.

I don't recall there ever being a door you couldn't pick or an NPC you had to kill in Morrowind.

I hear that. In fact, I'll confirm that there really were no NPCs in Morrowind that you couldn't kill.

(Hell, I wouldn't mind getting the original Morrowind content on the new engine, either.)

I hear that too, though I predict that if such a thing ever materialises, you'll find that Vvardenfell suddenly feels tiny ...

Re:Agree with sentiment

[joshetc]

It took me about the same to really get into the game. Once I did I was hooked, for about a week. 2 or 3 late nights and I had beaten the game and realized doing small quests was absolutely boring after a while.

Oblivion has got to be one of the strangest games I've ever played. It was so great yet I barely played it. Most other games I would consider great I've had no trouble playing through numerous times without getting too bored.

Re:Agree with sentiment

[Drakin020]

Really what it was lacking was the lore. Dungeons in Morrowind were all different. Now in Oblivion you have set themes. Theres like 3. Sure they are for the most part different but they all have the same feel.

Also theres just not as much fun in the dungeons. Before id go out and find some awsome scroll or lost sword...Oblivion just doesnt seem to have as much of that...its like exploring the dungeons lost its fun.

They took alot of great things but also messed up on alot of thigns. Its like if you merge part of Morrowind with Oblivion you'd have the perfect game.

Re:Agree with sentiment

[meowsqueak]

Yes, I'd liken Oblivion to games like Nethack and Angband - lots of random and procedurally created content that gives you lots of things to do and try out, but lacks immersion. That's the problem. It lacks soul. It lacks the artist's touch. It's a fantastic tech demo though.

Re:Agree with sentiment

[Aceticon]

My feeling is that part of the problem lies with the fact that almost from the beginning you have access to the whole map. There is no "new area" to uncover (after the gates are open).

Also, the authomatic leveling of the monsters with the leveling of the player means there are no zones packed with monsters "beyond your level" and you cannot set yourself as an objective being high level enough to get in there.

Also there is not enough variety in weapons and armor - there comes a point when your rewards for defeating a bucketload of monsters is weapons and pieces of armor of the same types you've been getting for the last two weeks (real time).

I other words the quality of the rewards (be it new areas to explore, new weapons or new armor) for achieving something, stops increasing too early in the game.

Which leaves the missions (and especially the main ones) as the only way to actually feel challenged and achieve something. This pretty much removes the fun of going out and exploring outside the missions.

Re:Agree with sentiment

[Jaysyn]

Here's to hoping they don't screw up the next iteration of Fallout so badly.

Jaysyn

Re:Agree with sentiment

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

I hear that. In fact, I'll confirm that there really were no NPCs in Morrowind that you couldn't kill.

I will comment that you could indeed screw up your Morrowind game by killing some NPCs. One of which I believe had the underground haven for the zombie people I think they were called "Corprus Diseased." Part of the main quest was to get infected with this disease and that NPC would give you a potential cure. I forget how the rest turned out but I know if you killed him a message would pop up that you could no longer finish the game and asks if you want to load your game or continue screwing around.

Re:Agree with sentiment

[Greyfox]

Well there is 16 miles of landmass to explore and it's full of dungeons. I suppose you could also slide the difficulty slider up a ways. I was always forgetting about that. At the regular level, Umbra is really the only character to give you a challenge (And killing her is the only way to get Ebony armor before level 10.) I bet she'd be a lot harder to kill before level 10 if that slider was all the way over. Hmm... :-)

Re:Agree with sentiment

[ultranova]

Here's to hoping they don't screw up the next iteration of Fallout so badly.

Or Arcanum. I'd love to see Arcanum 2 with Morrowind's plugin system and modern graphics. There's so many unsolved plot ends too, from Dorian-Ka's battle zombies to what the dark elves will do now that Arronax has returned.

Any fantasy game where you can help form a labor union for orcs deserves a sequel ;).

Re:Agree with sentiment

[27,000]

It's ebony-modeled armor with the heavy weight of ebony and the weaker armor stats of Orcish. Thank you, Bethesda, for tempting us with a reward to a difficult challenge, then punching us in the balls for it.

I think that line sums up the entire game. You just can't get ahead.

Re:Agree with sentiment

[MaXMC]

That's so true!

You can't even join the three girls robbing poor sobs who they lure in to their house with promise of sex.

Heck even Fable had sex.
They'd better not mess up fallout!

Re:Agree with sentiment

[k_187]

yeah, there's a few other things you could do that make the main quest impossible (like killing Vivec ;) In my opinion, making the important NPCs unkillable is a better option as it lets you keep whatever progress you've made between saving and the screw up, but to each their own. Fast travel definatley makes the game go by much faster it seems.

Re:Agree with sentiment

[Anonymous Coward]

You could still finish the mainquest even if you killed Vivec, you could talk to Yagrum Bagarn (the last living dwarf, who had robotic spider-legs) to acquire the wraithguard if you had a very high rep if i remember it correctly.

Agree to disagree...

[BSonline]

I actually, eventually, found Oblivion to be kind of tiresome. Once the initial appeal wears off, everything seems kind of mundane. That is one of the main reasons why games are released to mod capability... To put some new back in.
Overall, however, it is a great game. However, despite all that there is to do, there doesn't seem to be much variety. I never really cared about the story, and most quests are varients on certain themes. I can't expect more than that, but it still gets old after a while.
Prey, on the other hand...

Re:Agree to disagree...

[Goaway]

That is one of the main reasons why games are released to mod capability... To put some new back in.

So basically, releasing a moddable is like saying "Aw christ, we really have no idea how to make a fun game. I hope somebody else does it for us."? Sounds about right, if you look around at PC gaming these days. I guess people have just gotten so used to the games sucking to the point that they will say something is a "great game overall" even though it's "tiresome" and "doesn't seem to be much variety".

Re:Agree to disagree...

[BSonline]

It is true, I'm guilty of liking a lot of games. Perhaps I'm easily amused? But content is content. I love the movie Pulp Fiction. However, after 20 hours of watching it I would criticize it in much the same way I did Oblivion. Jokes loose variety, the story line would be rediculously boring by that point... And still, I would turn to a parody, if available, for something fresh. I hate to think of mods as parody, but the analogy kind of fits.
I'd love to see a game come out that stayed fresh after 10 or 20 hours of gameplay. It's just hard to find that kind of playability. Fable was a good example. I enjoyed it until the end. Yet, that game was talked about as being too short. How much longer could it have been, and still been fun 'til the end?

Re:Agree to disagree...

[cptgrudge]

Well, they did release Fable: The Lost Chapters, otherwise known as Fable: The Finished Game, which maybe had another 10 hours of gameplay. I bought the first release. I didn't buy the second. Pay out another 50 bucks to get what the game should have been? I won't be fooled twice, so I won't be buying Fable 2 when it is released.

Re:Agree to disagree...

[Bishop]

I finished The Lost Chapters end to end in 15 hours (the console + pc "bonus" content). So you didn't miss much. I wouldn't even call it "The Finished Game." The lost chapter was just a tacked on bit to try and sucker some console players to buy it again.

Re:Agree to disagree...

[misleb]

What I got tired of was worrying about my stats and when I was going to level up. I had to install a mod to slow leveling down just so I could keep things under control or I was going to end up turning the difficulty way down. You really shouldn't have to stand there and tank a crab for 10 minutes while wearing heavy armor just so you can get a +5 to endurance the next level up. Oh, and then there is standing there casting the same spell over and over again so you can increate some stat that will give you more intelligence. Well, maybe you don't have to do it. I just heard the game gets REALLY hard later if you are not careful about how you level.

Other than that, I thought the game was pretty engaging (I didn't finish it). I never ran out of things to do. Always had a quest list with several uncompleted items. The game gets much more interesting when you start making spells and enchanting items. Oh well.

Imagine a game based on walking boring?

[Dryanta]

"This could be just the thing for me to forget how unbearably stagnant and boring I ultimately find Oblivion to be: the ability to transmogrify into huge ogres, gigantic walking sticks and carnivorous cephalopods."

Oblivion isn't boring! You get to walk a lot.... and stuff happens... and you walk a lot "This is the first movie" *walks* "This is the second movie" *walks, stumbles, keeps going* "Are you ready for the third movie?" *walkes, takes off ring, drops it, shrugs, turns around*

Re:Imagine a game based on walking boring?

[Durrok]

Try this:

Once you are outside the dungeoun and have visited a few towns, go to your map, click on the location you want to go to, and then say "yes". Boom you are there.
That will be $5.99 please ;)

Re:Imagine a game based on walking boring?

[darkonc]

Sounds like Myst. I helped a friend get it running -- she was soo eager to get it going, but then it turned out to be just a lot of pretty pictures with puzzles inbetween ..... And lots of walking back and forth.

Re:Imagine a game based on walking boring?

[Wilson_6500]

I did a hell of a lot of walking in Morrowind, but I can't count the hours I spent playing that one. Even with the very nice fast travel system to do away with the backtracking (at least once I've been guilty of leaving the scene of a sidequest to cash in my loot), Oblivion's still not as engaging.

I actually remember fondly using MW's Mark and Intervention spells (along with boats and silt striders) to try to shave off as much time from my trip as possible. Of course, in Oblivion you can go pretty much anywhere (that you've been) at pretty much any time. You don't HAVE to use that system, yes, but it's also unsatisfying to walk everywhere. I suppose the natural solution would be to force yourself to only fast travel to cities, emulating the Intervention-type spells.

Re:Imagine a game based on walking boring?

[someone1234]

Yeah, Myst is crap. It is a plain point and click adventure without humour or action, or even meaningful puzzles. Oblivion is quite unlike that. Aside combat (which isn't as good as a 2d strategical combat would be), you can develop your own spells or mix potions of unusual qualities. The quests are not quite complex, mostly fedex and kill stuff. Still Oblivion is good enough while waiting for some real rpg to come out.

How long..

[Kent Simon]

until we can expect the mod to support temporarily turning yourself into a newt?

Re:How long..

[Anonymous Coward]

+Funny.

Am I the only person who plays Nethack? =(

Re:How long..

[grammar fascist]

until we can expect the mod to support temporarily turning yourself into a newt?

Or a very small rock?

It's all good, as long as you get better.

Awesome gameply ramifications!

[Propagandhi]

The lack of abilities and spells such as this is what made combat in Oblivion so boring to me. Whereas other RPGS (the BG series will always be my goto example for well done CRPGs) have a variety of attacks and defenses, Oblivions arsenal was decidedly repetitive (the spell library consisted primarily of DD's and DOT's, with a few stun/paralyze type things thrown in, but only a limited variety of those). BG had all sorts of great defensive spells (stoneskin and all the various shields) to go along with a variety of unique transformation spells (polymorph self, polymorph other) and some great AE spells (admittely, you can add AE to Obvlivion spells, but they're still just damage spells, nothing interesting like a mass sleep or web).

Part of the problem is that there's no group to play with in Oblivion, no classes with complementary skills etc. But still, your character can become such a powerful jack-of-all-trades I think it's hard to justify the mundane nature of his/her abilities.

Cool stuff like this just adds a ton of gameplay possibilities, and the designer of the mod knows it. Changing into the rat form, for instance, isn't just some gimmick. You can then sneak into/outof places you normally wouldn't fit. Stuck in jail? Sneak through the bars. Chased by the guard? Sneak through a crack in the wall.

It's surprisngly well done, too. There obviously aren't animations between forms, but the transformation (accompanied by a puff of smoke type effect) isn't too jarring, and the animations once you've changed are all in place. Great to see mods for this game that don't ruin the immersion. I haven't gotten to play with it yet, but hopefully the spells have appropriate costs/requirements associated with them.

At any rate, this is really just a concealed rant against Oblivion's focus on graphics rather than what should have been a really awesome combat system. That and a little thank you to the modders for noting the potential here, and fixing what Bethseda forgot about.

Re:Awesome gameply ramifications!

[Enoxice]

For those of you who are kinda slow (like me). After a few minutes of thinking, it finally hit me that BG==Baldurs Gate.

...I think.

Re:Awesome gameply ramifications!

[Durrok]

Yes, you are correct.

Re:Awesome gameply ramifications!

[bozendoka]

How scary is it that I knew that but had to look up DD and DOT? (Direct Damage and Damage Over Time for anyone else out there who's painfully out of touch)

Re:Awesome gameply ramifications!

[Anarke_Incarnate]

You had that "polymorph" in "Lands of Lore 2: Guardians of Destiny"

It was a great game (and a dumb one too) and I wish I still had the CDs

Re:Awesome gameply ramifications!

[Petrushka]

How scary is it that I knew all of these abbreviations, in spite of never having played WoW? *shudder of fear*

Re:Awesome gameply ramifications!

[Hillgiant]

Part of the problem is that there's no group to play with in Oblivion

This is a bonus in my book. I hate group based CRPGs. The comptuer AI is never smart enough and I loose the imersion feel when I am managing a group rather than managing a single character.

I haven't played Oblivion in quite a while.

[odhen]

I loved Morrowind, but Oblivion just didn't grab me in the same way. Like others have said, it was shiny, but there wasn't much substance. The only mods I had downloaded when I had been playing it were ones that fixed the UI (getting rid of all the icons on the compass, making the world map actually *fill* the screen, allowing me to view more than 6 items at a time in my inventory...basically making it less "console-y"). I had been playing it heavily, more out of the fact I spent 50 dollars on it and wanted to get through a good portion if not all of it, when my hard drive died. That was 3 months ago. I've since replaced the hard drive, but haven't had the desire to install Oblivion yet. Which kind of shows my feelings toward the game. When I eventually (if ever) reinstall the game I will definitly download this mod and any others that have come out since that *hopefully* will improve the enjoyment of the game. I don't mean any disrespect to the Xbox 360 owners out there, but I honestly feel that the game being developed for it as well severely hurt the final game.

Re:I haven't played Oblivion in quite a while.

[Guysmiley777]

100% agree with you. The stock UI is horrible on PC, it is clearly designed for a console, and the PC version suffers for it. There is a mod you can get that "un-Xboxes" the UI, I forget the name of it... but it made a world of difference in my opinion. I run in 1600x1200 because I have a large monitor. I don't need each inventory item to be 3 inches across.

Re:I haven't played Oblivion in quite a while.

[Gord]

> There is a mod you can get that "un-Xboxes" the UI

BTMod is I think the one you're referring to. A 'must have' mod for Oblivion really.

Boring?!

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

There's a lot of comments already, in addition to the article quote, to the effect that Oblivion was boring and uninteresting. To them I say; Sorry guys, you didn't get it.

Lets face the facts. A lot, a lot, of people bought Oblivion for its graphics and little else. They wanted an RPG spoonfed to them like so many Saturday morning cartoons, complete with detailed plot expositions and explanations even a six year old could follow.

Oblivion isn't like that. It's an old school dungeon adventure RPG. The presentation of the backstory, world and plot most closely resembles GR Martin's masterpiece, A Song Of Ice And Fire. Like that series, Oblivion will not in some hackneyed and vulgar fashion, simply explain every aspect of the game to you. Rather, through subtle references and occasional books or conversations, the structure of Tamriel, its customs, laws, religion, creation and history, are slowly revealed to the player. This gives the setting a depth that simply could not be achieved by allowing narrative spoonfeeding to break the illusion of immersion.

As to the gameplay, any RPG fan will love it. It has both variety and depth, and of course near total freedom. I played the game for 160 hours before finishing the main quest. I'm still playing it. The craftsmanship that has gone into this game is simply unparalled. The sheer amount of quests, dungeons, characters, items, abilities, classes, terrain, etc boggles the mind. The game has been buffed till the sheen shines.

And these aren't just slapped together to make up the numbers. Oh no. Almost every quest is an engaging and entertaining narrative. Ask anyone who has played the Dark Brotherhood mission with the house guests. When you listen to the tale of the drunken old Nord, confessing how he is reliving the loss of his own daughter after the death of the young dark Elf woman, as you see him go from gregarious to suddenly serious and realise that the guests needent even have been killed in this order, and you needent even be speaking to him, you begin to see the level of sheer effort that has gone into this game.

Oblivion isn't just a pretty face. I should know. I play it on the lowest graphics settings with Oldblivion. It's not about the looks. It's about the gameplay. And Oblivion has it by the bucketload. I'm off now for a moonlight run oe'er the mountainside, to find new dungeons and shirnes. This never gets old.

Re:Boring?!

[scuppy]

lol what a comparison. A song of ice and fire, George is on a winner there, re-release book 4 every 2 years with a different cover so people keep buying it. I have it as 2 books split into part 1 and 2, a hard cover and a soft cover. He's draged on the story with the princess overseas, and diverged all of the characters for the sake of dragging the story out. For the record, reading books 1 and 2 I thought it was going to be the best fantasy series I ever read. A bit like oblivion...

Re:Boring?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they find it boring becuase it lacks complexity, and is too simplified..

what I would call 'consolization'.

Re:Boring?!

[Propagandhi]

A lot of people in the thread are bad mouthing it, but with good reason!

As to the gameplay, any RPG fan will love it. It has both variety and depth

I'd argue that it has neither. The dialogue is 99% click through (although it is pretty well written and well voiced). Speechcrafting, although interesting, is hardly of primary importance, and can easily be ignored by the player. The trading system has been toned down significantly since TES and now amounts to simply finding an npc with good standing and selling as much as you can to it.

I'd argue that the only gameplay mechanism of any import is the combat system (speech, travel, and trading are all just ways to facilitate combat) and this is where Oblivion falls short. As I mentioned in my original post up the page, the spells are of a disapointingly repetative nature, all that's been implemented is a simple resistence system and a few damage types to get around it. This stuff is simpler than Diablo 2 for god's sake, and most harp on Diablo for its decidedly simple combat mechanics.

Archery, although satisfying to use, offers a similar lack of innovation. You click, you hold, you shoot, the enemy takes damage... and little else happens. The magic arrows and the effects they offer are startingly mundane given the quantity available. Some paralyze arrows, and then a bunch of damage adding arrows, the variety of which is disapointingly similar to the spell casting system. The fun, more creative effects found in deeper CRPGS are not to be found. No multi shot type things, you can't pin your opponent to a wall, spell effects limited to stun or damage, little to no alteration effects, and those that do exist are simply meant to allow you to do more damage.

The melee combat system isn't *bad* but as I went through the game I found that the special attacks were hardly any more effective than the standard attacks. That's fine in a game like Baldur's Gate, when you're also managing spell casters etc. in combat, but if you're melee only it gets rather tiresome not being able to do anything but deal damage (and *occasionaly*, *rarely* stun or disarm).

The sneak system was, IMHO, too powerful, which lead to it being no challenge to use. At high levels you could zoom around the room while crouched, only occasionally being threatened by an enemy..

At any rate, the sum of all this is that combat requires too little thought. Maybe the enemies were too weak, or maybe the fact that you rarely took on more than 2 at a time lead to gameplay limitations. Whatever the case, combat ultimately resulted on clicking on the enemy, dealing damage, and then either fighting or running. You could sneak up if that was your though, or just engage from afar. Better CRPGs allow for more creative solutions to fights, and given the excellent physics system present in Oblvion I was disapointed in the repetative nature of the combat. Every fight in a given dungeon was almost identical, the only difference would be whether you had to chase the enemy (if they were a caster) or they chased you (if they were a melee'r).

The amount of content was impressive, and the amount of repetition in monsters and dungeon types wasn't too distracting (although the auto leveling of the world was rather disconcerting). A lot of the quests were enjoyable, but a lot of them were mundane. Ultimately it comes down to the sub par combat system, that's its flaw.

Re:Boring?!

[NeutronCowboy]

No. The game IS boring. And it's got nothing to do with what you mentioned. The reason Oblivion is boring (and why I stopped playing after having put about 100 hours into sidequests alone) is that nothing. really. happens. Become arena champion? Mud crabs can still kick your butt (I'm playing that gimp of all classes, archer thief). Save children, families, farms? They briefly will mention it when you come back, but otherwise, nothing. Wipe out entire villages, restore rightful leaders to their position, save entire cities? Some characters might change what they say, but otherwise, nothing. As you get more powerful, your enemies get more powerful, which means you're just as sucky as you were 10 minutes into the game. Except you wear more shiny. And don't get me started on the leveling scheme. The more you advanced, the better you got - until the enemies caught up with you, at which point you sucked again. This was a system that actually rewarded munchkins - no, it basically made it necessary for my poor archer.

Someone likened playing Oblivion to paddling in the middle of the Ocean. You do stuff, you exert yourself, it looks like stuff is changing.... but really, nothing's changing significantly. The reason I loved Baldur's Gate, or even Skies of Arcadia, was that stuff changed. Things got wiped out. Enemies that would chew me up within seconds at the beginning would at some point fall to my attacks. There was a feeling that the world was changing based on what I did. In Oblivion.... well, sometimes guards would attack me. Sometimes they wouldn't. Other than that.... it was like reading a giant book. Where it would take 10 minutes to turn one page, and where each story would be 1.5 pages.

yeah, I plunked 100 hours into a game that I decided sucked. Unfortunately, it took that long for me to realize that the initial problem would never go away. And that the side quests did nothing to help the main problem of pacing and actual story. Yeah, there's some cool moments in there. I'd say I've seen about 30 minutes total of them. That's just too much filler to qualify as a good game.

Re:Boring?!

[OzRoy]

Oblivion has great Writing and that is it. Fantastic depth to the world, and the characters that you interact with on the missions.

Gameplay is something different, and it's gameplay is distinctly average. Combat is tedious and overly simplistic. The way you interact with the world is tedious and overly simplistic. In fact almost everything gameplay is tedious and overly simplistic.

The mistake they made was trying to put everything into the game and what they got is a Jack of All trades, but master of none.

Re:Boring?!

[ichigo 2.0]

The reason Oblivion gets boring in a hurry is the lack of complexity compared to Morrowind and other RPGs. Some of the more annoying features:

- The robotic NPCs with their 2-3 different one-liners and their limited dialog options gets very annoying after hearing the same thing for the hundredth time.
- The omniscient godpolice, that teleports into a shop to arrest you for stealing.
- Annoying main quest. Those oblivion gates get very old after you clean out the third gate, after that I just started running to the end to avoid all that dremora grinding and grabbed the stone to quickly close the gate.
- Stupid autoleveling of enemies. You never got challenged because anywhere you went, you only met enemies of your level. This resulted in a lack of dangerous areas that you avoided until you were of a higher level, like for example the dragons in BG2.
- Other limitations to player freedom, like indestructible NPCs and unpickable doors. What's the point in trying to make a free world if you then try to limit the player so he doesn't break some quest?
- Enchanting items. This was the biggest disappointment, as the range of items you can create is limited compared to Morrowind. I want boots of waterwalking, or a ring of burden (that beggar is going to regret finding my ring and wearing it... :). Or why not a hat of giant size, that makes your character huge, so I can play golf with the guards?

Of course someone might make a mod that fixes these, and hopefully someone will someday. That doesn't change the fact that normal Oblivion gets boring after the novelty wears off and you realise how limited the freedom really is.

I fear for Fallout 3.

Re:Boring?!

[Vo0k]

My god, this sounds like soviet propaganda. What kind of moron modded this insightful?

Let's see the lies:
old school - linear, simple quests, nearly no puzzles, essentially hack&slash. Yeah, old-school like Nethack.
spoonfed plot - each journal entry spoon-feds you the next step to perform, NO THINKING.
depth - things you're told to do are simply foolish!
freedom - invisible walls, non-openable doors and scripted events that make you cry from frustration as you helplessly watch some fool getting killed and can do nothing, because the game took controls away from you
craftmanship - horrible bugs, hopeless AI, shallow scenario
The sheer amount - about 1/4 of what was in the previous part, Morrowind.
Almost every quest is an engaging and entertaining narrative - except of these boring stuffers. Most of quests are "kill X" or "fetch X". You go save some Jumbo Potatoes kidnapped by evil ogre or find 5 parts of machinery in 5 bandit camps scattered in the wilderness to gain access to moons' powers.
gameplay - it's all about killing monsters and NPCs. The environment is interesting and the quests try to tell some story from time to time, but it always boils down to killing someone to pick some McGuffin and bring it to the quest giver.
new dungeons and shirnes - sorry, but they differ only in layout. All loot is random, the enemies are location-specific (fairy creatures|undead|bandits|necromancers|vampires|gob lins) and vary with your level but are entirely random too, and there's absolutely no point in visiting new dungeons, because they contain exactly the same loot and challenges as old dungeons (which respawn after 3 days game time).

Re:Boring?!

[psykke]

Are you on some hard drugs or sucking too much Bethesda cock? Do you seriously believe there is actually a storyline in Oblivion that an average 10-yo could not write? I can't believe you actually had balls to compare it to Song of Ice and Fire. Did you actually read the books? Oblivion is not old school, it is a next-gen RPG in its full glory - shiny graphics, no substance and crap gameplay. And that freedom you mention. Of course it makes sense that you can be a leader of Dark Brotherhood and Fighter's Guild at the same time. Just like in real life leader of Al-Qaida is a president of USA (well bad example since that one is not that far off), but you get my point... actually it is probably too complex for you, so nevermind. Actually, why do I even bother... fuck off and die, tosser.

Re:Boring?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Um you CAN make boots of waterwalking.

Re:Boring?!

[Tom]

There are about 100 or so mods around that change Oblivion's main problem, the creatures auto-levelling with the player.

Have you tried any of them? Check Realism 1.0 for example, it has you running for your life from wolves early in the game, but since they don't level with you they are easy prey a few levels down the road.

Re:Boring?!

[Pablo El Vagabundo]

I think that you dont get it. It is about immersion. I bought it and initally thought it was cool. I am an old skool D&Der and ultima underworld player..

I enjoyed combat and the advancement was cool. The storyline and quests and amount of stuff to do was great.

However, after a bit of mucking around the problems with the world started to appear. Everybody knew everything. I would rob a horse in one town and everybody in the world knew about it. The guard followed me day and night for weeks until I eventually killed him and everyone knew.

The way the baddies were always powerful enough to be challenaging annoyed me, sometimes they should have been too powerful and other times I should have been able to wipe the floor with them.

How can a shop keeper 300 miles away from the house I nicked a cup know it was stolen????

No combat on horses was a dissapointment.

It ruined the game for me. I played it for maybe 10 hours and then left it.

Pablo

Re:Boring?!

[Paolone]

The omniscient godpolice, that teleports into a shop to arrest you for stealing.

I managed to break in many shops and houses. Just pop in when police is not around.

Re:Boring?!

[someone1234]

This is not entirely true, the moment i could develop my own armour and weapons, i owned the opponents. The game was tough in the beginning, and gradually became easier up to level 30, then it became cakewalk (almost unenjoyable). All fights except the last one in the Paradise was cake. Yeah, the dialogs are not so developed, and there is little impact on the world (except the last dragon fight). You surely miss that one, hehe. THAT changed the landscape of the city significantly.

Re:Boring?!

[ichigo 2.0]

So did I. I meant when someone sees you do something illegal and the police immediately knows and sometimes teleports next to you. It makes the NPCs feel less like individuals, and more like members of the borg collective.

Re:Boring?!

[ichigo 2.0]

I don't have it installed any more, so I can't verify. But I distinctly remember that you could only put attribute and skill boosting magics on items as constant effects. I don't know about the spells on a stick, but those suck anyways. If I want to cast spells then I cast spells, no point in using battery powered items for that.

Re:Boring?!

[soccerisgod]

Oblivion is a great game. It has cool combat, nice magic effects and the modding ability is decent for a game of this kind. It allows you to go where you want and it doesn't force you into anything and some of the quests are really cool. It's a great game.

That said, it's a lousy TES game and it's a horribly bad RPG. The dialog is lousy, much worse than in Morrowind. There is less text, but to "make up" for that, it's all spoken by the same six or so voice actors. But what hurts the most for any long time, serious TES fan is the apparent total lack of lore. The devs say they asked the old lore gurus to write stories and lore and such, but that they didn't have as much time as would have been required. I don't know about that. But it is a serious problem. The world is lush and green and full of dear, ok. But it doesn't have any depth. It has none of the depth Morrowind had. In addition it is not as alien, not as intriguing as Morrowind. Sure, the same can be said about the two older games in the series, but IMHO this is the first time we experience a serious decline in the series, a step away from rich lore at least. This has always been a saving grace of this series that had to make up for other serious flaws, such as dialog. And don't even get me started about things like the persuasion minigame. What the FUCK were they thinking?

I have a really bad feeling about Fallout 3. Guess I'll have to invest all my hope in Age of Decadence. At least that's made by people who know and love good RPGs.

Re:Boring?!

[Anonymous Coward]

*sigh* I see Oblivion fanboys are like Apple fanboys. The best way of dealing with them is isolating them so they can spend the rest of their lives circlejerking.

Re:Boring?!

[Anonymous Coward]

You highlighted something that made me iffy on the game and if only this one item changed I would like it a lot more. Why would someone make the creatures difficulty increase based on your level? What is the point in that? If I am going to have the same battle with the same creature at level one as I do level 5000000, where is the incentive to want to increase my levels? why kill anything then? you improve, but so does everything around you which cancels that out in my mind. i want to conquer when i play an RPG, i want a lowly nobody to become an undefeatable champion, but Oblivion doesn't really offer that. i haven't played it that much though, only about 10 hours, but after someone told me that I stopped playing.

Re:Boring?!

[donscarletti]

Every point you have, oblivion is flawed but comes out better than average (except maybe gameplay and craftmenship).

Ever played an RPG from Japan? Squaresoft games especially suffer from the fact that there is one path to take, one set of events that WILL happen because they are scripted to do so. You have a set sequence of dungeons and fights and you will complete them all in the order that you are given. Near the end of the game you may be able to traverse the world and pick your team, but the choices are slim.

Neverwinter nights was a personal favoirite of mine, but you have just the illusion of free choice there too, there are 4 cities, you do 4 quests in the first city, 4 quests in the second city, 3 quests in the third city, 4 quests in the fourth and a long quest to reach the boss in the first city again. Each of those quests have one or two scripted solutions to kill baddies towards. That's not choice at all.

The Grand Theft Auto series are a popular twist on RPGs, but all they give you is a choice to bring a helicopter on your adventure or a motorbike (well, in the last two games). You've also got more choice in direction to compensate for the lack of levels, but it still boils down to doing the missions they've told you to.

Vampire, The Masquerade: Bloodlines is another RPG that kicked arse. That seems to have a policy of never having less than 2 solutions to a major quest which is admirable (sneaking, brute force, speed and social manipulation being the main ones). But even then you are playing though pre-defined missions in a specially designed environment designed to force you down certain paths that control your fate.

Basically there are only a three games that leave you freer than Oblivion does: Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind so you're either annoyed that Bethesda Softworks decided to tune their game in a slightly different way, or you're a twit that's never written a computer game and you are annoyed that they all seem to come with inherant restrictions in what you can do for various reasons. Why you picked the better than average Oblivion for your outlet escapes me. Either way, if you don't like Oblivion because it is too restrictive, don't play any other game for the next 10 years because statistically, that can only be worse.

Re:Boring?!

[NeutronCowboy]

Unfortunately, I have the XBox 360 version. My PC is about 5 years old, and therefore utterly unable to play the game. As a result, no mods, even though they really seem to be key to properly enjoy the game.

Re:Boring?!

[NeutronCowboy]

What character are you playing? I'm essentially a maxed out archer at level 21, with little profiency in anything but agility. I've heard that mages can become completely overpowered, as can certain close combat fighters.

Re:Boring?!

[Vo0k]

Basically there are only a three games that leave you freer than Oblivion does: Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind

Basically, you have no idea what "old school" RPGs are. The ones that were running on Amiga, like Ambermoon where after the first short cutscene you are free to explore about 80% of the world (huge! getting lost in the forests WAS an option!) and start out with quests in any city, or one where for first 3 months of the gameplay time you don't even get a hint of the main quest, all the time picking various odd jobs to earn basic living, like some of classics like Fallout - there are dozens of games that did offer more freedom. The problem with Oblivion though is that it most visibly is capable of giving you huge freedom, but it artificially limits it. The invisible walls around places that "the player is not supposed to be in", limit on amount of cash the seller is ready to offer for an item (Morrowind's "barter" option gone), caps on skills and attributes, spectator mode where controls are taken away from you, strict quest requirements (the questgiver MUST acknowledge you finished a quest before you can proceed with another of the questline, you must follow questgiver's suggestions or the environment will punish you - invisible wall on the arrow's route, unkillable NPC), and essentially... the entirely random content of dungeons? What freedom is it to choose one of 40 forts if each of them contains essentially the same stuff?

Re:Boring?!

[ultranova]

Vampire, The Masquerade: Bloodlines is another RPG that kicked arse. That seems to have a policy of never having less than 2 solutions to a major quest which is admirable (sneaking, brute force, speed and social manipulation being the main ones). But even then you are playing though pre-defined missions in a specially designed environment designed to force you down certain paths that control your fate.

But is that really any different from tabletop RPGs ? While I've never played them, I have read quite a few rulebooks, guides and pre-made adventurers - they are quite interesting on their own right, and I especially liked "Deities & Demigods". The common factor in every one of them seems to be: "How to stop the players from doing anything you don't want them to, thereby sending events into an unexpected direction." My personal favorite was how you stop someone who has the "Wish" spell from using it to solve a puzzle:

"I wish I could solve this puzzle."

"Okay, you now feel capable of solving the puzzle."

Based on these guides, it seems to me that the term "Dungeon Master" is quite fitting, since the basis for the job seems to be keeping the players from leaving their predefined path.

If a human being with knowledge and understanding of both real and the game world as well as human imagination can't roll with the changes and adapt to them, then surely it is unreasonable to expect a computer program that has none of these to be able to do so.

Can any actual Pen-and-Paper RPG player comment on this ? How much freedom does playing with a human arbitrator allow, compared to a computer ?

Re:Boring?!

[nullChris]

If I am going to have the same battle with the same creature at level one as I do level 5000000, where is the incentive to want to increase my levels?

To be fair, you usually aren't fighting the same creature, just a more difficult creature in its place. The only exception, is bandits. The bandits are higher level bandits, with much better gear. It's not like you encounter a level 100 mud crab... you'd encounter.

They had the ability to balance it a little better. The percentage of hitting a leveled opponent, vs. one from a range on this list, etc. Their goal was to keep the game challenging. Personally, I would have enjoyed a reduced frequency of leveled opponents, especially in the wilds, and dungeons.

Re:Boring?!

[nullChris]

It's not like you encounter a level 100 mud crab... you'd encounter.

Let me finish that sentence :)
you'd encounter a druegh<sp?>, or some other larger creature.

Re:Boring?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on these guides, it seems to me that the term "Dungeon Master" is quite fitting, since the basis for the job seems to be keeping the players from leaving their predefined path.

If a human being with knowledge and understanding of both real and the game world as well as human imagination can't roll with the changes and adapt to them, then surely it is unreasonable to expect a computer program that has none of these to be able to do so.

Can any actual Pen-and-Paper RPG player comment on this ? How much freedom does playing with a human arbitrator allow, compared to a computer ?

It depends entirely on the person, of course!

Some DMs are more creative than others; the idea is to create a story that's fun and engaging to the players. Let's suppose that the storyline the GM had in mind was an angstful tale of self-discovery, like Shakespeare's Hamlet.


Act I, Scene I:

Ghost: Hamlet, go kill your Dad!
Hamlet: Okay, cool! Runs off and kills Claudius, then claims his rightful throne, to loving applause from the "distracted multitudes".


Players: That was boring. Now what?
Novice GM: Crap! Come back in a month; I'll write a new plot by then...

Instead, an intermediate GM might come up with something more like this: he gets all heavy handed, and introduces obstacles based on plot details that the character should have known about, but for some reason doesn't. It still makes for a better game than staring at the ceiling all night, despite a slightly forced feel.


Act I, Scene I:

Ghost: Hamlet, go kill your Dad!
Hamlet: Okay, cool!

First, he is intercepted by his mother, who blissfully points out how much she loves Claudius, and how his attentions are the only thing keeping the Queen alive after the death of Hamlet's father. Hamlet is now forced to risk his mother's sucide to complete his father's quest for vengence. Next, he meets Ophelia, who tells him she's pregnant with his child. And on the way to kill Claudius, he finally notices the quiet little man who has followed him around since the wedding, a man he has paid little attention to before. He learns from a friend that this quiet man has just killed a master duelist over a matter of honour; and can probably kill Hamlet should he attack King Claudius tonight!

Hamlet learns that killing the King of Denmark won't be easy; and may cost Hamlet his life, his mother's life, or the life of his unborn child. Pursing a conflict with his uncle may lead Denmark into civil war! The GM gets to keep bits of his "angst-ridden choices" theme, and re-writes the rest on the fly. Some of the DM's changes to the world are quite `heavy handed, but they at least make the game more challenging (and thus more fun) than saying "You win" ten seconds into the game.


A master GM just gets subtle; this requires someone who can improvise well on the fly. This is the "throw out the gaming notes" option; like the basic GM, but replacing "panic" with "quick thinking". :-)

For example:


Act I, Scene I:

Ghost: Hamlet, go kill your father.
Hamlet: Ok.
Hamlet: Now what?

Why are my noblemen staging a revolt?!!! Why does Ophelia hate me now?!? Why is my Mom trying to kill me!?! Aaaaaah!!!!


In this version, like all the others, the ghost tells Hamlet to kill Claudius. Hamlet goes to do so, but this conflicts with the pre-planned plot. The master GM grumbles silently under his breath, mentally throws the plot out the window, and keeps going; so, Hamlet goes and kills Claudius; and it's just as easy as the player expects it will be. The GM doesn't "cheat" by changing the character's abilities or the people and experience he knows about; he just tweaks the unknown consequences of success to make the story interesting.

In this version, when the King Hamlet's new court of nobles find out that he's murdered his uncle on the word of an "evil ghost" that was "masquerading" as his father, they stage a revolt. Hamlet

Re:Boring?!

[Gulthek]

Basically there are only a three games that leave you freer than Oblivion does: Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind

What about Ultima 7? Stop adventuring, ignore the main quest and get a job in the bakery! Or running crops from farm to village. Or smithing. Or get hooked on drugs. Or get your party members hooked on drugs.

Re:Boring?!

[someone1234]

Class? There are no real classes in Oblivion, just preselected skill preferences. I've started a custom character with mage and fighter primary skills.

Re:Boring?!

[donscarletti]

I've played some pretty oldschool RPGs, Exile and Ultima are two that come to mind. They both have unpickable locks and unkillable NPCs just like Oblivion. They also do not have a world as detailed as modern RPGs either. Oblivion lets you wander around the forrest, do irrelivent shit, ignore the story to a far greater extend than the norm. The invisible walls especially arn't that bad, I mean, the world has got to end somewhere doesn't it? You either have got to have an invisible wall or just a drop into blackness. I suppose maybe if it were a sphere that wrapped around it might be better, but it is essentially the same, a finite world with finite size. Limits are here as long as computers are.

Re:Boring?!

[Vo0k]

It really seems like you didn't play Morrowind. It had all these problems addressed. Ocean around the world - infinite size. And while there are MILES of unused but graphically correct terrain outside the walls, the walls themselves prevent you from doing reasonable things. Tried sneaking around Silorn to snipe the necromancers from the hill top? Bummer, wall. Tried approaching the ruin with black bow bandits from behind? Sorry, wall. Tried to snipe the bandit at the rudder of Bloated Float? Sorry, invisible wall right ACROSS the ship. They are obnoxious and way too tightly placed.

Limits are here as long as computers are.
Excuse me but in -this- situation what you say is total bullshit. I installed "borderless cyrodiil" mod and ride all my way from Anvil to Leyawinn in straight line, through vast forests and mountains of Elsweyr and Valenwood. Terrains inaccessible without the mod. All the mod does is removing the invisible wall around Cyrodiil. These limits are artificial limitations of player freedom, not limits of available resources.

As for unkillable NPCs and non-unlockable doors, this is simply a bad practice, a crutch used in games where the authors are too lazy to fine-tune the game so that given task was simply too difficult for the players to pull off.

Re:Boring?!

[PaganRitual]

Sorry guys, you didn't get it.

It's a shame you got so many replies, because anyone that includes this fanboy bullshit line in any post should be immediately ignored.

I really love Oblivion, but I have the intelligence to understand that there will be people that don't like the same games that I do.
Even though it's not an old scho... wait, what?

It's an old school dungeon adventure RPG.

Are you kidding? The creatures and loot level up as you level up. Unless you gimp your character with skill selections (which is quite possible, I'll admit) you never have a problem because the entire game is like you've never levelled at all. No areas you can't venture to early on because they are above your pay grade. So phat loot you can't find somewhere and hold onto until you're strong enough to use it. And entire game that's played as though you've never levelled, and just picked up some new skills on the way.

It's not a full scale RPG by any means, but try the Gothic games. You go into an area you aren't strong enough for yet, you get slaughted, it's that simple. People were finishing Oblivion at level 1 for crying out loud. That just totally spits in the face (I really couldn't think of a good analogy here) of everything that RPG experinece gain and levelling stands for.

They wanted an RPG spoonfed to them like so many Saturday morning cartoons, complete with detailed plot expositions and explanations even a six year old could follow.

And they got it. Instant map travel, quests that mark on the map exactly where you should be heading. Hand holding of the highest order.

I personally really like the game, but some people (like myself) want more complication and less hand holding from their RPGs, you know, like old-school dungeon adventure RPGs.

Wait until the ESRB reclassifies for this mod...

[nick_davison]

How long until we hear:

Jack Thompson today decried Oblivion as a "bestial sex simulator" citing a new mod that allows players to polymorph in to horses and then "ride" their existing mounts. Given object clashing, this creates the appearance of two horses getting it on "hot coffee"-style. "Do we really want our children being exposed to this kind of 'conditioning'?" an enraged Thompson asked. "This kind of bestial porn must be reclassified as Adults Only, if allowed for sale at all." Thompson is now reportedly looking for horses that have been sexually abused to represent in a class action lawsuit.

"I've fought mudcrabs tougher than you!"

[goodenoughnickname]

Pssh, I doubt that now.

Re:Wait until the ESRB reclassifies for this mod..

[Babbster]

I'll just remind old Betsy to say "neigh" if he comes around to our stable...

I blame the voice acting

[Wilson_6500]

Compared even to Morrowind, the game just felt incredibly flat, bland, and repetitive. The first thing that springs to mind when I try to assign blame is the terrible voice acting--I could go after the reduction in skills, or the blandness of the entirely similar body structures, or the totally generic feel of many of the locations, or the inane interface choices, or the (carried over from MW) completely similar nature of all the spell (effects), but I'll save those for other posts.

If you've played the game, do you remember walking into Edgar's Discount Spells? Talking with that guy was a slap in the face; maybe I just liked the nasal, annoying voice of the Bretons from MW or something. Then I go across the street and talk to--well, to any orc or nord, khajit or argonian. Though I think--not sure--that the VAs for some of those races had been the same in MW, in Oblivion it didn't even seem that they tried to differentiate the races vocally. The actor for the female redguard came off as not even trying, like she recorded her lines at 3AM the day before going gold. I really can't say for sure, of course. One of the things that kept me playing MW was the atmosphere: you were rarely jarred out of the notion that your character was walking around in some completely alien world. Oblivion's extensive VA just lends itself to the kind of stupidity you experience when, for instance, a beggar talks to you in a meek voice, and then suddenly jumps into the same voice that every other Imperial uses.

Re:I blame the voice acting

[Calathea]

I found the voice acting to be very very poor. I can accept that there are far too many people to voice so there is going to be some repatition but the tone of the voice would change mid conversation.There didnt seem to be much regional dialogue or slang.

Re:I blame the voice acting

[LurkerXXX]

Yep. The voice acting is terrible. It seems like the one guy (is it the guy who reads the harry potter books for books on tape?) does at least half the male voices. How about some variety instead of one guy trying to do 20 'accents'?

Why not hire more voice actors? Seriously. It doesn't take that much skill to read a few lines and put in some proper inflection. They shouldn't cost that much to have a few more people do it, and they don't need extensive training/experience.

Re:I blame the voice acting

[glsunder]

They went for a few famous people, which I think was a big mistake. However, I doubt Wonder Woman could have charged all that much.

I thought this was a 1st person game?

[Sodade]

This mod seems to imply that the game can be played in 3rd person? If thatr is true, I might actually check it out since I get headaches from playing FPS games, but I can play 3rd person with no ill effects. When the game came out I tried to figure out if there was a 3rd person mode, but it was not mentioned in any reviews or on the official website - all the screenshots are in 1st person so I assumed that was all you could do. Can some kind soul enlighten me? Is 3rd person mode just a gimmick and the game is only truly playable in 1st person?

Re:I thought this was a 1st person game?

[Anonymous Coward]

Press the "R" key. Did you try reading the instruction book?

Re:I thought this was a 1st person game?

[Sodade]

lol - I didn't buy the game because there was no way I could figure out if a 3rd person mode was included. So, now the question is: can you really play the game 100% of the way in 3rd person mode? Does anyone have experience with this?

Re:I thought this was a 1st person game?

[Tim_sama]

No, you can play it in 3rd person, but IMO it's better in 1st person. Since you haven't bought the game yet, though I have a little advice to you on the best way to have fun while racking up the hours in Oblivion. 1) Boot up your computer (or XBox 360), and subsequently, the game. 2) Have your character sit there in the Imperial city. 3) Go do something else. It hasn't failed me yet.

Re:I thought this was a 1st person game?

[Bishop]

The game was not designed for 3rd perspective. It does not play well that way. I found the combat all but impossible in the 3rd person view.

Re:I thought this was a 1st person game?

[borrible]

Well, that depends... I, for example, can't fight in 1st person view, I need it in 3rd. 1st person view is needed only for archery and picking up stuff (only small things, like coins).

Re:I thought this was a 1st person game?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was watching my friend play and he was doing it entirely in 3rd person.

Disagree

[friedmud]

I guess I'm just the type of person they were targeting with this game, because I absolutely love it.

I just got done with another 2 hour long session... which brings my total game-play hours up to 112! Yes, that's what it actually says on the save game loading screen... I really have played that long, just with one character... and _no_ I haven't finished the main storyline yet (in fact, I didn't start it until I was _90_ hours into the game!)

So what the hell have I been doing with my time? Mostly working my way up through the fighters guild and the mages guild (I'm a custom class WarMage)... and doing every damn side quest I can get my hands on. I've also (of course) fought through the arena. I also enjoy working on obscure skills (alchemy?) and becoming expert/master with all kinds of weapons.

I guess I just love the open-endedness of it all. If I want to run around and pick flowers for a while I can do that. If I want to go climb that mountain over there (and discover another shrine with its own quest line) I can do that too.

I know I'm probably in the minority on this... but I love being able to be a packrat. I have chests _full_ of gear (where it even takes a couple of seconds to open the chest because it's trying to load the list!) and more chests full of ingredients... and still more chests full of books and scrolls.

Sure the NPCs aren't much to talk to, but I do enjoy the fact that they have much more realistic daily routines (sleeping, waking, eating, working, eating, sleeping etc). They might not be perfect, but I believe they add just that little bit extra.

But I'm not going to convince a bunch of people on slashdot.... I just thought there should be someone to post a positive experience with the game.

If you are looking for a world to explore, and love open-ended games then you really should check this one out....

Friedmud

Re:Disagree

[meowsqueak]

Fair enough. I can understand that some people do enjoy it.

I'm more of a story+character+dialogue sort of person. I have played a lot of the more traditional CRPG games like Fallout, Planescape, and NWN. Unfortunately I found the dialogue in Oblivion absolutely excruciating! And don't get me started on that stupid persuasion mini-game. I solved that in 2 minutes and never wanted to see it again. I guess it got modded out? Anyway, it's dialogue and characters that build a cohesive game (for me), and I just couldn't see how the interaction model in Oblivion was ever going to deliver anything of value (for me).

Re:Disagree

[friedmud]

I enjoy those as well (looking forward to NWN2 like crazy!)... and I do understand what you mean by dialog.

I guess I just haven't spent all that much time listening to dialog... instead I'm off doing stuff. But now that I've started playing the main storyline I do kind of understand what you mean, because you end up talking to people a lot more.

As for the persuasion mini-game... I rather enjoy it. It's nice that even if I play a Dark-Elf character I can get people to like me even if they originally don't like the look of me. It's atleast better than certain people just being off-limits if your personality/charisma isn't high enough...

For me, it comes down to a huge world I can play in without the interference from other human players (ala MMO's). The cost of that freedom is that player interactions are fairly mechanical, but atleast for me it didn't get in the way of enjoying everything else about the game.

Friedmud

Re:Disagree

[mcai8rw2]

I like your enthusiasm for Oblivion, its nice to hear someone 'bigging-it-up'.

I played Oblivion for a little while, and much like yourself I like the openendedness of it [although even that can be a little intimidating at times]...and the graphics are absolutely amazing. The best graphics, in anygame.. provided your system can cope!

But my two main gripes of the game are that it is REALLY easy to cheat [a failing of mine i'm afraid!]. I worked out the hex codes for giving a player xxxx gold in no time. Bethseda didn;t even TRY to make it confusing/difficult to work the console.

Also, on a general level, I have become seriously involved in MMORPGs these days. And now...playing single games like oblivion, I feel really 'lonely' and as if I am playing in and empty room! Its odd but I keep looking for the chat window in Oblivion!

NWN2 should be a good game aswell... and Dark Messiah...

Re:Disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure the NPCs aren't much to talk to, but I do enjoy the fact that they have much more realistic daily routines (sleeping, waking, eating, working, eating, sleeping etc). They might not be perfect, but I believe they add just that little bit extra.

Well, I haven't seen them as I don't own Oblivion, but Ultima VI had routines like these, and has been published in 1990.

Re:Disagree

[qeveren]

Why should a game developer go out of their way to obfuscate the console commands, or even cheat codes? If a game has functions, I want easy access to them, thank-you-very-much. I paid for the damn thing. :)

Re:Disagree

[ultranova]

If a game has functions, I want easy access to them, thank-you-very-much. I paid for the damn thing. :)

Especially if Oblivion is anything like Morrowind, where console commands are needed to counter disappearing characters and other bugs.

Re:Disagree

[friedmud]

"But my two main gripes of the game are that it is REALLY easy to cheat"

More than any other game... Oblivion is what _you_ make it.

In this thread and others I hear a lot about things like "fast travel ruins the game" and "it's too easy to fire up the included editor and give yourself a 'hugebeatstick of fire'".

The thing is... this is a _single player_ game. Meaning that the only person you are cheating is yourself. Now, if that's what's fun to you then that's fine... but you can also place your own limitations on your actions and play a different kind of game.

For instance, I refused to use fast travel for a large portion of the game. Why would I do that? Well... because I wanted to explore and I wanted to get to know the land and villages and people. So I just told myself that I wasn't going to use it and I didn't (I did eventually start using it, after I had walked pretty much every damn square inch of the world). Now there are even mods that remove fast travel... just in case you easily give into temptation! (along with horse mods that allow your horse to level up the more you ride him so he gets faster... this can add a lot to the game!)

I also like to actually "role play"... as in I decide on an alignment (like in D&D) and I try as hard as possible to always play that alignment. I also like to think up silly backstories like "I was born with an axe in my hand... and no other weapon shall ever replace it" in order to give my character a little more purpose in the world (instead of just "oooh! Shiny! me wants!").

So like I say... I might be in the minority... but for me the complete open ended freedom allows me to use my imagination a bit and just do as I damn well please... which is what is fun for me.

Friedmud

Re:Disagree

[cdep_illabout]

I agree with this. Also, one of the reasons I really liked the game was because of the quests in the thieve's guild. For one of the quests I had to go to someone's house in the middle of the city and steal an amulet or something. After what seemed like an hour I trying, I realized I wasn't able to get the amulet through sneaking, so I just grabbed it and ran. I dashed through the city with an ever increasing number of guards chasing me. I managed to get to the city gate without the guards chasing my by using my in-game parkour skills (jumping over things and running on the tops of houses). I went through the door to outside the city, thinking I had escaped the guards, only to my dismay, finding them still chasing me. Luckily, I ended up outside the city right next to a horse stable. I threw open the gate, stole a horse, and rode away to saftey, with the slow guards far behind me. The reason I liked Oblivion is because of times like this. I love escaping from guards.

Re:Disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm with you. I love the game. The first week i got it I lost myself in the game. I would get home from work about 5:30. Start playing it and easily find myself playing till 1 or 2 am before I reliezed how late it was. I also didn't really start the main quest much until i was around 100 hours or so and opted instead to just wonder around doing other quest.

Re:Disagree

[Da VinMan]

Well, interactions with other people on MMOs is fairly mechanical too. The conversation always boils down to:

1. Group?
2. Loot?
3. Auctions
4. Trade?
5. Die!
5. M3 NEWB l337!

It gets a bit repetitive.

Nerds as critics

[Anonymous Coward]

Remind me never to develope an RPG. RPG players are so damn whiney.

I've invested over 80hrs into Oblivion so far and still love it. To the critics: Screw you. You probably want a game where you can play 24/7 and never have to leave your mom's basement.

Re:Nerds as critics

[77Punker]

Never leave mom's basement? You're talking about MMO's, right?

List of gripes with Oblivion

[Spikeles]

Check this page out http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gripes and see if your personal gripe is mentioned

F you all, Oblivion rocks!

[fracskul]

Bunch of spoiled, jaded, a-holes!

Oblivion is a great game, with awesome graphics, a great story, and that's my opinion.

On the FACTUAL side, it sold an assload of copies.

So you can all bite me. :)

Re:F you all, Oblivion rocks!

[Nanpa]

Awesome graphics... a 'great' story.... And it sold an assload of copies Exactly what people said about Hitler. And a great story is consituted of more than just Patrick Stewart. I mean, Chronotrigger had a great story, and it didn't have much Patrick Stewart at all!

Re:F you all, Oblivion rocks!

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. I played this game so my that my fingers hurt, my eyes were bloodshot, and my productivity at work sucked. I would venture to guess that I put possibly 100 or more hours into several different characters in this game. It just rocks!

I stopped playing it for the last month so that I can "forget" much of it and go back and replay the whole thing again and again. (of course I'm leaving in my giant tower and personal servant mods, as well well as the black market mod) hahaha

I think most of the people who are downing this game are the ones who got all hyped up for what was supposed to be a kickass experience, then they weren't able to play it at the full resolution, or it slows down, or they cheated their way through the whole game and now they are left with a "I DON'T WANT TO PLAY IT AGAIN CAUSE I CAN'T IMAGINE VERY WELL" symptom.

I dunno... you either love it or hate it, but this game did piss off a bunch of people because their graphics cards weren't up to snuff. Heck, my wife got livid with me for buying a $400 graphics card, a $200 set of speakers, and a Soundblaster 7.1 Xteme card JUST FOR THIS GAME! hehe

If you out there love it, you have friends. If you hate it, go play Prey or solitaire.

Re:F you all, Oblivion rocks!

[fracskul]

Wait a minute. My comment was flamebait, I know.

But the guy replies to my comment and mentions HITLER, and doesn't get called a troll?

What's up with that?

Re:F you all, Oblivion rocks!

[ravenshrike]

Because it wasn't a godwinned reference. He was directly beating the shit out of what passed for logic in your post. He could easily have said, Britney spears sold an assload of copies. Just because it sold an assload of copies doesn't make it good. It just means that the masses found it acceptable.

Oblivion

[ShakaUVM]

Oblivion, Oblivion. I uninstalled Nero so that I could play Oblivion without it crashing every 30 minutes. And it's a game that needs about 10 mods installed in order to be fun.

I'm still not sure if I love the game or hate it.

On the negative side:

1) Levelling system is one of the worst ever. Your early endurance score matters more than your endurance late in the game, so you have to be careful to crank it up in each of your early levels. Which entails sitting still and letting monsters hit you for half an hour each time you want to level. Ridiculous. Fortunately there's a mod that solves it, by incrementally levelling your stats as you skill up.

2) Combat system is tedious at best. Monsters scale with your level... and since spell damage goes up slower than spell costs, your spells actually do less and less damage as you get higher in level. OOO is a mod that fixes the most major of the scaling problems, and retweaks some things a little bit to make it better.

3) Magic item creation is pretty bad. Most of the options are terrible. Why yes, I'd like to damage myself over time! How thoughtful! Or you can either put a Feather (greater carrying capacity) on an item, or you can put +Strength on an item and get carrying capacity as well as a host of other benefits. And I thoroughly detest charged magic items. I don't care, tone down weapons or whatever, but I really hate the idea of burning through a stack of gold every time I whack a skeleton with my weapon. So I never use magical weapons unless the combat is way over the top. I haven't found a mod yet that makes all magic weapons permanent.

4) Combats are too easy and too similar. Pretty much anything can be beaten by left clicking over and over, mixed up with taps of healing spells on yourself. If you have potions, you essentially have an infinite life bar and infinite mana. How can you lose? The new combat behavior mod helps a little here, though it usually just involves monsters learning to dodge your 5 MPH fireballs...

5) Stealth is ridiculous. You can run a mile away from a monster and hide in a dark cubbyhole but he still can track you down and kill you. I found a mod which lets you re-hide if you break line of sight for 20 seconds, and have been enjoying using that. Also, a mod to do away with the bloody telepathic guards also helps a great deal if you play a rogue type in the game.

6) It's as crashy, if not crashier than any Bethesda game since pre-patch Daggerfall. And I only tip the hat to Daggerfall, since it wouldn't run at all on my Cyrix procesor until about 19 patches out.

On the positive side:
1) It's pretty

2) Okay/decent storyline

3) Has Jean-Luc Picard, the only bright spot in the terrible multiple-personality disaster voice acting for the NPCs (they use MULTIPLE voices on the same NPCs, it sounds like they're crazy).

4) But... best of all... the game is just barely flexible enough that you can do some really cool things with the chaos that ensues. Pickpocket an NPC villan. Stab him. He runs over to a nearby place and picks up a weapon. The owner of the weapons call the guards, who then beat the living daylight out of him. I think my version of the world has a lot more larcenous NPCs than in my girlfriend's... I find dead bodies of NPCs caught stealing all over the place, and from time to time I'll see a thieves guild member run screaming by chased by the guards, but my girlfriend hasn't seen it yet. I saw the guards blow away a guy once for stealing lettuce. Or I delayed completing an escort quest and ended up taking the NPCs I was "escorting" through the Oblivion gates. They come back to life if killed, so they make excellent party members as they fan out and take on the dremoras while I sneak up from behind for the backstab.

I like it... but I'm still looking for more patches to further improve the gameplay. The game design, as a whole, was terribly flawed at release.

Re:Oblivion

[Mongoose]

I shouldn't have to point this out, but you're missing the point of the game. Some people actually want to add properites to items for damage ( such by sunlight ). It's called role playing. Go back to playing halo where you feel safest. =)

Re:Oblivion

[ShakaUVM]

No, I love open ended RPGs. I think games like FF7 should have the "role-playing" label ripped off of them and beaten over the heads of the game designers.

I just like to powergame a little. (Not too much -- it's stupidly easy in Oblivion to make a character with permanent 100% chameleon, essentially rendering him invincible.)

Bugs are forgiveable, but bad game design is not. The mods that somewhat fix the gaping deficiencies in the gameplay are the only things that make the game palatable.

Re:Oblivion

[glsunder]

was there a problem with having Nero installed? I haven't played it for a while, but I could have swore I had nero installed without problems.

Re:Oblivion

[Mongoose]

That's what people want. You try making an A title RPG -- I assure you it's not that easy. You'd kill yourself just giving half of the people what they want. =)

Re:Oblivion

[ShakaUVM]

Give me a week at Bethesda and I could fix the most glaring of problems, and make the game about ten times as fun.

Whats the point [2]?

[mcai8rw2]

This mod seems like a great fun thing to use, but I have to ask the question:

"what is the point?"

In an earlier thread a slashdotter argues that this shapshifting would be great if you were in jail, you could polymorph and squeeze through the bars. Or polymorph and hide from chasing guards. But the game has already been designed WITHOUT the mod, therefore solutions to the problems that polymorphism could solve have already been 'written into the storyline'. Thus making the mod redundant? Perhaps?

Also, does the resulting polymorphism impact on the games A.I.? i.e. if i morph into a fish on land can I breathe? Can I walk? Do i NEED a bicycle? Or if I morph into a bugblatter beast in town, will the guards attack me? Will children recoil at my Vogon poetry?

I'd love to try this mod out, but my motherboard melted, rendering me entirely without P.C. until i can buy a new one. Ho Hum.

No Bloodmoon-Oblivion Expansion?

[zyl0x]

So, if this guy manages to add a werewolf model and attached transformation to his mod, I guess that will decrease the chances of us ever seeing a Bloodmoon-like expansion for Oblivion. I want my werewolf. :(

Meh..

[MojoBox]

Oblivion's a big step back from Morrowind in all important aspects. I've gone back to Morrowind, and I recommend everyone else does too, what with the infinite view distance now available: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a156/MojoBox/MGE _Balmora.jpg

sigh, trolls... -Re:Imagine a game based on walk

[Anonymous Coward]

It's pretty obvious you have never played the game because you don't even know that you can fast travel. Go back to whatever shithole you crawled out of.