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Morphine Relief Without Addiction?

Roland Piquepaille writes "Morphine has been used as a painkiller for decades, if not centuries. Unfortunately for patients, morphine is also an addictive substance. Now, Brigham Young University (BYU) chemists are using a vine plant that grows in Australia to develop a new painkilling molecule, but with fewer side effects. The Deseret Morning News reports that the BYU chemists hope to ease pain with hasubanonine, the synthetic compound they created and which has a similar molecular structure as morphine. Still, more tests need to be done before this natural drug can replace morphine."

308 comments

  1. I know what should be used by daniil · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dr. Freud recommends cocaine as morphine relief.

    --
    Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
    1. Re:I know what should be used by pHatidic · · Score: 2, Informative

      For those who don't know, Freud used cocaine from time to time but never got addicted. However, he gave it to one of his friends to try who later died from his addiction to the substance.

    2. Re:I know what should be used by Martin+Blank · · Score: 2, Funny

      Once the addiction has transferred, you can then try using modafinil to break the cocaine addiction.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    3. Re:I know what should be used by glimmy · · Score: 1
      Dr. Freud recommends cocaine as morphine relief.

      That reminded me of this.
    4. Re:I know what should be used by niktemadur · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's a pretty good movie from the seventies called The Seven Percent Solution, in which Sherlock Holmes teams up with Dr. Sigmund Freud to cure his cocaine addiction, all the while solving a murder case. Of course, cocaine was an over-the-counter drug at the turn of the century. Consider the name Coca-Cola, which originally contained coca leaf extract.

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    5. Re:I know what should be used by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Coca-Cola still contains coca leaf extract. It's just that they chemically remove all traces of cocaine from it.

      One reason why Coca-Cola can protect the taste of their product from being replicated is that they are one of the few (if not only) US companies that can legally use coca leaves.

      --
      Happy people make bad consumers.
    6. Re:I know what should be used by grammar+fascist · · Score: 1
      For those who don't know, Freud used cocaine from time to time but never got addicted. However, he gave it to one of his friends to try who later died from his addiction to the substance.

      Fascinating. I wonder if Freud was ADD or ADHD?
      --
      I got my Linux laptop at System76.
    7. Re:I know what should be used by bacterial_pus · · Score: 1

      Apparently this is also when he started having thoughts about a male's attraction towards his mother.

    8. Re:I know what should be used by maetenloch · · Score: 1

      Actually one of the initial claimed benefits of cocaine was that it alleviated pain without addiction. Unfortunately this turned out to not be true.

    9. Re:I know what should be used by Killshot · · Score: 1

      Could you provide a source for this please?
      I've not been able to find anything official.. only rumors.

    10. Re:I know what should be used by arivanov · · Score: 1

      And Bayer recommends heroin. They actually hold the trademark and it should be heroin (TM). They put it on the market right after putting aspirin.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    11. Re:I know what should be used by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola

      Early years

      Columbus, Georgia druggist John Stith Pemberton invented a cocawine called Pemberton's French Wine Coca in 1884, although it was originally meant to be a headache medicine. He was inspired by the formidable success of French Angelo Mariani's cocawine, Vin Mariani.

      The following year, when Atlanta and Fulton County passed Prohibition legislation, Pemberton began to develop a non-alcoholic version of the French Wine Coca. He named it Coca-Cola, because it included the stimulant coca leaves from South America and was flavored using kola nuts, a source of caffeine. Pemberton called for 5 ounces (140 grams) of coca leaf per gallon of syrup.
    12. Re:I know what should be used by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      Well, according to this Coca-cola was low-cocaine from 1904 until technology improved enough to remove all cocaine in 1929.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    13. Re:I know what should be used by Icculus · · Score: 1

      yeah, in the 19th century it had cocaine, but not anymore. This is a bit more current though still a bit speculative.

    14. Re:I know what should be used by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 1

      Sorry it's been so long since I got back to you. I didn't want to submit this during work.

      My source is a book called "Cocaine: An Unauthorized Biography" by Dominic Streatfeild. (Which, despite what the title may lead you to believe, has some pretty heavy research behind it). The author cites American historian Paul Gootenburg. He talks about Stepan Chemicals, a subsidiary of Coca-Cola. It's their job to remove all of the cocaine from the coca leaves before they are used to make Coke.

      Building Number 2 of Stepan Chemicals' Maywood, New Jersey plant (where the magic happens) is estimated to import 175,000 kilograms of coca a year, which is referred to as "Merchandise Number 5." As you can imagine, this particular plant is guarded heavily.

      There's also more to the story regarding the mutually beneficial relationship between Coca-Cola and the Federal Bureau of Narcotics in the past. But if you want the details, read the book!

      --
      Happy people make bad consumers.
    15. Re:I know what should be used by Killshot · · Score: 1

      Thanks!
      Sounds like and interesting read, I'll pick it up.

  2. Heroin by snowgirl · · Score: 5, Informative

    If I recall correctly, Heroin was originally designed the same way, or at least to help people get off of a morphine addiction.

    Oops! It turned out to be even more addictive, oh well, let's try again. hehe

    --
    WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    1. Re:Heroin by nuckin+futs · · Score: 1

      you might be thinking of methadone to treat a heroin addiction. methadone was also developed because there was a shortage of morphine.

    2. Re:Heroin by mspohr · · Score: 4, Interesting
      From the Wikipedia:

      From 1898 through to 1910 it was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children. Bayer marketed heroin as a "cure" for morphine addiction before it was discovered that heroin is converted to morphine in the liver.
      One problem with this new drug is that anything that is analgesic will have some addictive potential.
      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    3. Re:Heroin by hackstraw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I recall correctly, Heroin was originally designed the same way, or at least to help people get off of a morphine addiction.

      Oops! It turned out to be even more addictive, oh well, let's try again. hehe


      Rinse and repeat with methadone.

    4. Re:Heroin by westlake · · Score: 1
      If I recall correctly, Heroin was originally designed the same way, or at least to help people get off of a morphine addiction.

      I think it would be more accurate to say that heroin was prescribed for patients with intractable pain that could not be relieved by morphine.

    5. Re:Heroin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The worst part about both of those drugs is the prohibition against them. Either one can be taken by an experienced user with very little side effects. The damage normally experienced by a user is due to contaminates in the impure street versions of these drugs. Ironically, the (relatively) non-addictive synthetic opioids used to "treat" addiction can causes damage even though they are pure prescriptions. Such is the nature of drugs the government allows people to make money off of and drugs the government makes money off prohibiting.

    6. Re:Heroin by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful
      One problem with this new drug is that anything that is analgesic will have some addictive potential.
      How so? Aspirin is analgesic and isn't particularly addictive.
    7. Re:Heroin by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If I recall correctly, Heroin was originally designed the same way, or at least to help people get off of a morphine addiction.

      you might be thinking of methadone to treat a heroin addiction.


      No, he WAS thinking of Herion.

      The drug chemists were trying minor modifications on the morphine molecule, trying to find something with the pain relief but without the addition. This new one had all the pain killing power, so they tried it on a number of the lab personnel and it didn't give any of them withdrawal symptoms.

      So they marketed it as the "Heroine" that would rescue the world from addiction by killing pain without hooking. Only to discover that it hooked at least as well as it cured pain.

      Turns out:
        a) The body jut converts it back to morphine.
        b) There is a small fraction of the population that doesn't get hooked on morphine and its derivatives. And it happened that all the people in the lab they tried it on were members of that subset - a statistically unlikely occurrence.

      (There was a theory that such people also gravitate toward research science fields, such as chemistry and medicine, for unknown reasons, though I haven't heard whether this was ever checked out.)

      = = = =

      One of the most tragic parts of the whole additction / drug war / underprescription of painkillers by doctors for fear of prosecution is that morphine and derivatives, given in appropriate doses for relief from actual severe or chronic pain, apparently DON'T addict. It's a dose spike far above the pain-relief level that sets the hook. (Not that it's easy to tell in chronic pain cases, since the return of the underlying pain is a fine substitute for withdrawal symptoms. But for acute pain tapering the dose - even (especially) by self-administration, also tends to avoid the hook.

      But DEA scrutinizes doctor dosing habits and sporadicly prosecutes doctors who prescribe "too much" narcotics. And they don't adequately take into account whether the doctor is a specialist in pain treatment or treatment of illnesses with a lot of associated pain, and thus have an atypical patient mix biased toward need for pain medication and high doses.

      So doctors underprescribe. And that leaves many chronic pain sufferers with no alternatives but ongoing excruciating pain, suicide, or recourse to illegal drugs (with their uncertain strengths, and high cost requiring IV administration with its sudden onset, leading to dose spikes and addiction).

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    8. Re:Heroin by Nutria · · Score: 1
      One problem with this new drug is that anything that is analgesic will have some addictive potential.

      How so? Aspirin is analgesic and isn't particularly addictive.


      And neither is acetamenophin(sp?).

      What he should have said was:
      anything that is opiate will have some addictive potential
      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    9. Re:Heroin by E++99 · · Score: 1
      If I recall correctly, Heroin was originally designed the same way, or at least to help people get off of a morphine addiction.
      And, I think, before that, morphine was the revolutionary non-addictive form of opium.

      (of course this, new thing is from a completely different plant, so who knows.)
    10. Re:Heroin by whig · · Score: 1

      "(There was a theory that such people also gravitate toward research science fields, such as chemistry and medicine, for unknown reasons, though I haven't heard whether this was ever checked out.)"

      Research science fields and other areas that require many years of education are mentally demanding but not physically demanding for the most part. Could it be that they have less soreness that the heroin relieves?

      --
      Peace and love, y'all
    11. Re:Heroin by buswolley · · Score: 1

      I call: Bullshit.

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

    12. Re:Heroin by kalel666 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I believe methadone was developed by Nazi Germany as a substitute for morphine, which they were unable to obtain. I have no direct knowledge of this, but I believe methadone is the second most effective painkiller after morphine.

      http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/methadone_detox_p art_1.shtml/

      --
      I HAVE CUBIC WISDOM THAT TRANSCENDS AND CONTRADICTS ONE DAY GODS
    13. Re:Heroin by ryanguill · · Score: 1
    14. Re:Heroin by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So doctors underprescribe. And that leaves many chronic pain sufferers with no alternatives but ongoing excruciating pain, suicide, or recourse to illegal drugs (with their uncertain strengths, and high cost requiring IV administration with its sudden onset, leading to dose spikes and addiction).

      The really sad thing is that for those in chronic pain, addiction isn't really much of a risk considering that the pain itself will make sure that they NEED to take whatever painkiller they have regularly anyway. Reluctance (on the government's part anyway) to give terminal patients all they want is also baffling to me.

    15. Re:Heroin by x2A · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Reluctance (on the government's part anyway) to give terminal patients all they want is also baffling to me"

      Because it's a drug, and as we all know, drugs cause terrorism!!!

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    16. Re:Heroin by x2A · · Score: 1

      "Could it be that they have less soreness that the heroin relieves?"

      Addiction to opiates is caused (primarily I believe) by the fact that the body stops producing it's own version (endorphines) to balance things out ("oo, I have plenty, I don't need to be making any more"). When the drug wears off, you're left with too low a level of endorphines, causing an increase (above what it was before) in activity in all the pain gates that endorphine was modulating.

      However little 'soreness' you have before taking heroin, there's plenty of scope for pain on the comedown.

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    17. Re:Heroin by servognome · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I think it would be more accurate to say that heroin was prescribed for patients with intractable pain that could not be relieved by morphine.

      It would be more acurate to say that heroin was self-prescribed to anybody with a Sears Catalog, even came with the syringe.
      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    18. Re:Heroin by x2A · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately it's not... it's pretty f*#!&k up.

      Yes, with pure smack, injecting's gonna be more on the dangerous side, but that level of danger is *nothing* compared to the danger of injecting yourself with brick dust or anything else often found in the street stuff.

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    19. Re:Heroin by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1
      This new one had all the pain killing power, so they tried it on a number of the lab personnel and it didn't give any of them withdrawal symptoms....

      b) There is a small fraction of the population that doesn't get hooked on morphine and its derivatives. And it happened that all the people in the lab they tried it on were members of that subset - a statistically unlikely occurrence.

      Which is statistically more unlikely: A lab full of people immune to morphine addiction, or a lab full of people prepared to give answers unfavourable to their employer?
      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    20. Re:Heroin by dukerobinson · · Score: 1

      What he should have said was:

              anything that is opiate will have some addictive potential

      What he should have said is

              anything that is an opioid will have some addictive potential

      as this drug will act on the opioid receptors but is not an opiate because it is not derived from the poppy

    21. Re:Heroin by aminorex · · Score: 1

      Actually, we know of four distinct opiate receptors, and it is hypothesized that only one of these is critical to the analgesic role of opiates, while the other three relate to the euphoric effects.

      But really, morphine is far less addictive than, say, nicotine, or alprazolam. Those benzodiazepines are murder (sometimes literally) for withdrawal. Morphine is grossly underprescribed, like most pain killers, because of the DEA terror campaign against people with chronic pain.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    22. Re:Heroin by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      Ditto meperadine (Demerol) and hydromorphone (Dilaudid). Sometimes it seems that the only difference between the tremendously profitable illegal drug trade and the tremendously profitable legal drug trade in the USA is that the first one is less dishonest in its sales pitches.

    23. Re:Heroin by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      I think it would be more accurate to say that heroin was prescribed for patients with intractable pain that could not be relieved by morphine.

      You are perpetrating a lie.

      One of the arguments given for the use of heroin was because it could cure "morphinism" and it provided a way of treating severe pain without risk of "morphinism".

    24. Re:Heroin by mysticgoat · · Score: 2, Informative

      they tried it on a number of the lab personnel and it didn't give any of them withdrawal symptoms.

      These early drug studies were limited by a very poor understanding of the nature of addictive behavior. Almost certainly the lab personnel did exhibit the signs and symptoms of physical withdrawal from the opiate, but these weren't recognized as such. Opiate withdrawal symptoms make one feel grumpier and more irritable, and have some signs like a mild flu, and that's it. Of itself, the physical withdrawal from opiates is usually not sufficiently nasty to cause drug-seeking behavior (addiction).

      The more severe problem with the opiates is the psychological dependency that can arise in many people. So far as I know, the mechanisms of this aren't well understood as yet. But it does seem that people who are happy at home and facing satisfying challenges in their work are not as susceptible to drug-induced euphoria as, say, someone with limited education and a bleak future.

      Google this: addiction dependence habituation. It is a complex field, and not easily amenable to scientific study.

    25. Re:Heroin by Nutria · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But really, morphine is far less addictive than, say, nicotine, or alprazolam. Those benzodiazepines are murder (sometimes literally) for withdrawal.

      The side effects of nicotine don't seem that bad. (Although inhaling burning hot gasses and all the other particulate crud that are in the typical nicotine delivery system sure don't appeal to me very much.

      Morphine's side-effects seem pretty nasty, though.

      Morphine is grossly underprescribed, like most pain killers

      Agree with you there.

      because of the DEA terror campaign against people with chronic pain.

      No, the DEA "remembers" that 400,000 Civil War vets came down with the "Soldier's Disease" (addiction to morphine).

      They really shouldn't be so anal about it, but it's difficult for bureaucracies to find a happy medium when setting policy.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    26. Re:Heroin by Thangodin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reason is that suffering is supposed to build character, which makes these drugs evil. God wants you to suffer for your own good. Now do you understand? Of course not, it doesn't make sense, but there it is. Someone once said that a Puritan is a person who lies awake at night terrified that somebody, somewhere, is enjoying themselves.

      I wish it were only Puritans, but this kind of lunacy seems to permeate most of Christianity. Christoper Hitchens wrote a book entitled The Missionary Position which included eyewitness accounts of people who worked with Mother Theresa. Apparently, Mother Theresa refused to use pain killers stronger than aspirin, even for terminal patients who were writhing with pain from cancer. It's not like she couldn't afford them; her order had fifty million in the bank, and she wasn't far from Afghanistan--morphine would have been dirt cheap. Her rationale was that suffering brought you closer to Christ who suffered on the cross. So hey, pain is good, painkillers are evil, got it?

      At some point, a religious consolation which was supposed to make people feel better about their pain (I'm sorry we can't help your pain, but something good may come of it) became twisted into a message that pain was good for the soul (which is why the Inquisitor needs all these implements of torture.) But don't try to understand it, it's a mystery...

    27. Re:Heroin by blugu64 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dang you Ben-Gay!!

      --
      "Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
    28. Re:Heroin by frickendevil · · Score: 1

      There should be a distinction between mental and physical addiction. If someone is physically addicted to a drug, taking it away from their system could kill them. If it is only a mental addiction, the drug can be restricted and the patient would only "want" the drug, the body wouldn't shut down without it.

      On top of the type of addiction, the establishment of the addiction is needed. Heroin (and most morphine based compounds) increase dopamine activity in the brain, resulting in a euphoric feeling. However the drugs have long term depressant side effects, thus a person will want to take the drug just to be happy, not to cure the pain so much. If this new compound doesn't give the happy side effect, then it won't be as addictive, or addictive at all, because people will only feel sad.

    29. Re:Heroin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hold on now, I do work in a pharmacy so I am not billowing steam here. Some doctors OVERPERSCRIBE horribly rather than deal with their crazy drug addicted patients. I have to deal with them and be the bad guy by not letting them overdose on doc approved opiates. I see much more overperscribing than underperscribing. In fact I am glad some of the former docs around here got their lisences revoked. People are allowed to demand whatever pills they want, and the docs sign it. It is very common for docs to just sign a bunch of script pads and let nurses or secrataries fill out the actual order. (yes it may cause them to lose their lisences, but it happens)

      If you are mad that your doctor won't give you all the pills you want, go to another one. The ones with loose script pads are everywhere. But please don't come to my pharmacy. I don't like drug addicts.

    30. Re:Heroin by donaggie03 · · Score: 0

      Why do people always feel it is absolutely necessary to generalize an entire group based on information they learn about a certain small section of the group? So it turned out that Mother Teresa was a psycho who didn't believe in pain medication and some corrupt Catholic officials obused thier power centuries ago. . . that means "this lunacy seems to permeate most of Christianity?" Give me a break. It sounds to me like parent has other issues with religions in general and just HAS to twist every subject into a Christian bash.

      --
      Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
    31. Re:Heroin by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      I'm glad someone pointed this out. This has been known since the 30's, and many psychologists in their field will agree with this. Most people can handle their addictions on their own, discreetely, and without affecting others so long as it is cheap. Most narcotics, including Heroin, do no irriversible damage to the body that isn't comparable to smoking. Meth is another story though. It is when the addictive substance is restricted, the supply shrinks, and the price skyrockets, causeing people to turn to petty crime to feed addiction.
       
      The price of a pack of cigarettes in NY is about $9. People are arrested for smuggling cigarettes in to NY and selling them tax free at around $3 a pack. Is it really worth it to belittle the smokers who are buying contraband cigarettes? Is it worth throwing people in jail for smoking cigarettes? Would the crime rate increase ever so slightly if we completely outlawed cigarettes? More than likely, as people would need their fix of $50/pack/day of cigarettes. Drug prohibition causes more problems than it will ever solve, because the prohibition is ultimately what caused the problem... I've never heard of reports of housewives going on killing sprees after drinking their cocaine laced tonic, just as I've never heard of someone jumping off a building from smoking pot or snorting coke.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    32. Re:Heroin by Thangodin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, how else do you explain the irrational resistance to alleviating pain? What, an old man that's going to be dead in a month will get addicted to morphine? The reason for this isn't medical, moral, financial, or at all rational. So, what's left? What irrational belief would encourage otherwise normal people to allow someone to suffer when it would be so easy to prevent it? The same forces which pushed for the prohibition of drugs also pushed for the prohibition of alcohol. Look them up and find out who they were. Our reluctance to give people in pain the drugs they need is a continuation of this same policy. When you're doing something stupid, it's helpful to know why you're doing it, so that maybe you can stop doing it.

      I'd always known that this tendency to regard suffering as a positive boon to others ran through the stricter Protestant sects, and some Victorian writers, including Charlotte Bronte and Charles Dickens, go into some length describing how this idea suited the purposes of ministers with a streak of cruelty. The Catholics also have a long tradition of "mortification of the flesh", and Pope John Paul II wrote an entire Apostolic Letter on suffering and the need for suffering. The wording is quite similar to quotes from Mother Teresa. Still, this was always presented as being voluntary, and those who tolerated or contributed to the suffering of others were usually regarded as aberrations--in polite company, anyway. But the argument was still making the rounds in Catholic schools when I was young.

      But finding it in Mother Teresa's case, where it was policy in an order of 40,000 nuns and volunteers charged with caring for the sick, and realizing how many people saw this and never said a word publicly, and you realize that this is not an isolated aberration. And the pursuance of this same policy, albeit in a milder form, in public medicine should tell you just how far it reaches.

      Still, maybe the Eastern Orthodox churches aren't into this, but it certainly seems to run through the Protestant and Catholic churches. That is most of Christianity.

    33. Re:Heroin by DrVomact · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Rinse and repeat with methadone.

      ...and now with buphrenorphine. (See, for example this article).

      The cycle seems to run like this: Drug A has been found to be "addicting" (for practical purposes, let's define this as "makes you feel really shitty if you stop taking it"), and it has been noticed that people enjoy themselves after taking it. Drug A is therefore declared by the media and government agencies as "evil". (Note that both conditions are necessary and sufficient for evilness: prescription medications that make you feel really shitty if you stop taking them (like certain anti-depressants) aren't evil--presumably because people suffer instead of feeling pleasure. Coffe and likker are OK even though they make some people feel good because they're not addicting (or so they say).

      Ok, now we all know that a substance that makes people feel good and that makes them want to keep taking it is a social disaster that puts terrorism, plagues, famine and and the imminent fall of Western culture in the shade, so what do we do? There are, of course, many alternative approaches to this problem but one that has gained some favor is to adopt a new drug, "B" as the "cure" for problem A. This looks good because drug B isn't evil--it hasn't yet experienced the media frenzy that unshakeably convinces the populace that a drug is evil. So drug B is now prescribed for heroin addicts to "cure" them. In the case of Methadone, this was obviously silly because Methadone is just as addicting as heroin, and can make you feel quite nice. In other words, some Methadone patients may be -gasp- enjoying themselves! Methadone does have the advantage of lasting longer than heroin, so it can be handed out to heroin addicts on a once-daily basis, thereby controlling their dosage. But really, this is no different in principle from handing out a day's ration of, say, Dilaudid to the addict. It just looks better, and we all know that looks are all-important.

      Of course, Methadone has acquired a definite tinge of evilness, and it's hard to establish a methadone program, and difficult to get into one because the possibility that some individuals may possibly be enjoying themselves troubles the conscience of the media and the politicians.

      Now we have Buphrenorphine that is being embraced as the new "cure". Well guess what, addicts aren't going to stop being addicts because they need their daily fix of bupe, and --curses!-- some of them are smiling.

      Personally, I think the whole business is silly. I do think there are some people who have a big problem with addiction, but I think the best way to help them is to do what the British have been doing for years, and just prescribe reasonable amounts of the stuff they crave. Maybe bupe will be a better drug, in that accidental or deliberate overdose may be less likely with this drug (it's partly self-limiting because beyond a certain dosage it stops working). But folks, none of these programs is going to work if we Americans don't get over the notion that feeling good by taking certain pharmaceuticals is ipso facto an evil thing.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    34. Re:Heroin by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Reluctance (on the government's part anyway) to give terminal patients all they want is also baffling to me.

      A terminal patient isn't going to be voting anymore, so why would the government give a shit about him ?

      That's something to consider, for all those who want to make mandatory IQ tests or whatever a precondition for being allowed to vote.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    35. Re:Heroin by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      A terminal patient isn't going to be voting anymore, so why would the government give a shit about him ?



      Because his relatives might still vote.

    36. Re:Heroin by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

      Chronic Pain sufferers taking opioids is not very different from diabetics taking insulin. The only real difference is that without insulin a diabetic dies of a coma, whilst without pain killers a chronic pain sufferer dies of jumping in front of a train. Dependency is really not a major concern, as much as it not hurting so damn much.

    37. Re:Heroin by RKBA · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wish we could post pictures on /. Please check out this old Doonsbury cartoon I saved at :

      HTTP://Ron.Dotson.org/pic/Doonesbury.gif

    38. Re:Heroin by Mprx · · Score: 1

      Anyone who's tried Salvia divinorum, a selective kappa opioid agonist, will know that just because it binds to an opiod receptor doesn't mean it feels anything like an opiate. Salvia is not at all addictive, and it is often strongly dysphoric.

    39. Re:Heroin by grandgator · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's not exactly right, but it's close. All opiates (and opiOIDS) work primarily by binding the mu receptor in both the peripheral and central nervous systems. After that point, there is still a lot of unknown in what actually happens with respect to specific signaling cascades, etc. But that's not a result of lack of understanding regarding the pharmacology of opiates/opioids, but rather a lack of understanding what actual biochemical signals/processes/cascades are responsible for producing "pain."

      The actual addiction part is not just from what happens to various levels of chemicals when you apply and then remove the drug, but to a larger extent is caused by what actually happens to the number/density of receptors themselves. A difficult problem to combat.

      The problem, as many other posts here about heroin and morphine allude to, is that any compound that works via these receptors will cause similar addictive effects. The only way to avoid that it to change the way that the drug targets receptors. But, if you do that, then it's not really fair to have this article. i.e., it would then make about as much sense to say "Pepto Bismol relieves stomach pain without the addictive effects of heroin!" In other words - duh! They're not the same thing.

      The reason the mu receptor is a common pain medicine target is because it is SO effective at block pain signals. But, as with so many other things posted here, there is no free lunch. You want big time pain relief? Mu receptors are the way to go. But that means issues with addiction/withdrawal/etc.

    40. Re:Heroin by Bush+Pig · · Score: 1

      All _I_ want to know is does this new chemical float you on the same lovely pink cloud of "I don't give a shit" as proper opiates, preferably without acquiring a savage addiction. (God, I love opiates. I'm not addicted. Really. But I might be if they were easily and legally available. They're just soooo nice if you have a broken wrist.)

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
    41. Re:Heroin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I think the whole business is silly. I do think there are some people who have a big problem with addiction, but I think the best way to help them is to do what the British have been doing for years, and just prescribe reasonable amounts of the stuff they crave.

      That or just legalize the stuff. The thing is that in the US the most socially acceptable and legal drug is one of the worst that one can put in your body -- alcohol. I became a raging alcoholic and it almost killed me because it was cheap and easy, and odds are none of this would have happened if I could get quality marijuana from a store. I got sick of going through the black market and having to hang out with druggies to get it, so I just drank even though I don't like it that much. But guess what? I became physically and psychologically addicted to it, and it sucked. In the US, they treat people with psychological and medical problems as criminals, and its very much a PITA getting busted and whatnot. It gets real old, real quick. I've done every drug under the sun except for heroin, and I will confidently say that alcohol is the worst I've done. I no longer do marijuana either, but I'm a big advocate for its legality. Society as a whole would be better if it were legal vs not.

    42. Re:Heroin by budgenator · · Score: 1

      I thought Dr. Kevorkian, had pretty well fixed that, in fact in Michigan it's illegal for M.D.s not to control pain

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    43. Re:Heroin by diakka · · Score: 1

      I've also heard Dr. Drew state that the long term use of opiates actually causes the pain. When many chronic pain sufferers get themselves into a treatment program, the pain from that old back injury that has long since healed, will simply disappear.

      --
      -- Knowledge shared is power lost. -- Aleister Crowley
    44. Re:Heroin by Ken+Erfourth · · Score: 1
      • If I recall correctly, Heroin was originally designed the same way, or at least to help people get off of a morphine addiction.
      Absolutely. And Methodone already exists to take care of the withdrawel symptoms. That hasn't had any effect on the true addictiveness of Heroin, Morphine and other opiates. They're addictive because make you feel good. If they stop making you feel good, they're not nearly as effective (Morphine is not actually very effective in reducing pain--it just makes the pain much more easy to tolerate).

      But who am I to take issue with more drugs? Go Australia!
      --
      Fundamentalism is a crime against humanity
    45. Re:Heroin by jt418-93 · · Score: 1

      exactly. i take morphine 2x a day, for the last year or so, and i actually have a life again. before that, i was stuck in bed or in a chair all day every day.

      so i get sick and moody if i don't take it. try missing a dose of your prozack and see what happens.

      ill take being dope sick over constant pain every day.

      i just thank the gods i finally found a good dr.

      --
      -.no
    46. Re:Heroin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The fear of addiction to morphine is an odd US thing. It was noted on this side of the pond along time ago, that people who use morphine for pain relief do not get addicted, ever!

      I am angered that in the US, that the fear that people, even the terminally ill, will develop addiction is so strong that the US has become one of the worst countries in the world for elevating pain. Doctors are so fearfull of being arrested, they reduce doses so low, it has no effect.

      What are they scared of, terminally ill wrinklies going on a robbery spree to feed their morphine habit? Not likely. People who need morphine are generally aged - well past turning to crime.

      Japan has its scandal over sexism in medicine. There, women are often not told that they are terminally ill or are given terribly callous treatment. Literally knocked on the head with a hammer so save on anaesthetic. And in the US, people can get pain relief encase they become junkies.

    47. Re:Heroin by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      No, he WAS thinking of Herion.

      Since this is Slashdot, and you all are used to assuming that there are no girls on the internet, I'll forgive your slip here. ;)

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    48. Re:Heroin by mokumegane · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's the large doses, especially spiking to a large dose then 'spiking' back down to a small dose or nothing that creates addiction more than anything. Genetics/body makeup also play a role. I have a friend who doesn't drink a drop of alcohol because her father is an addict and she only takes medications prescribed to her.

      Playing it safe is better but also getting the pain relief you need should be accomplished. I've had the 5mg morphine pill and I liked it, personally. (The morphine pill was just like taking percocet, with the difference being that I'm allergic to percocet.) I was able to get to sleep without pain or drug effects hampering me, so when I really hurt, I took it so I could sleep. Then, I had vicodin or something similar for day time because those particular medicines would make me hyper. When I was really bad, I could go into the hospital for demarrol shots. All this was done sporadically because my pain is sporadic. The disease-modifying medicine (Enbrel) and swelling reducer (Ibuprofen) had to be taken on a schedule.

      With people who have to live with chronic pain, the true balance is being able to control the pain so you can live your life as normal as possible. I have every-day pain but I generally ignore it because it doesn't really alter my daily life. When I find that I can't get out of bed or walk to the kitchen, tend to fall or drop things, etc, I take enough to control the pain. It's like if you don't get rid of the chronic pain, you can't get better. Without medicine (pain relievers, disease-modifying medicines, etc) an arthritic flare-up can last weeks or a month. With medicine, it lasts days at the most.

      I think the only prescribed pain-reducer I've been denied was marijuana, on the precept that I'm so young. My doctor felt okay prescribing it to older people who didn't have so much longer to live but didn't want to prescribe it to someone who may be using it for fifty or more years. Understandably so. I don't understand the doctors that are so afraid of the law that they won't hardly prescribe anything but I do think they should use their training in medicines to prescribe the best drug for their patient. Likewise, the patient should also do their own research and talk to their doctor about new drugs that are out or other medications they haven't tried yet. Who knows, maybe the doctor hasn't heard of it or he/she has knowledge on it that would benefit you.

      The worst part of continual chronic pain is that your body gets used to a medication and soon, the maximum dosage doesn't seem to change a thing, meaning you have to switch to something new. However, under any circumstances, you should discuss new things with your doctor before you try them. Your doctor has knowledge about you and medicines on the market that could make the best of your situation. My rheumatologist told me that I should never participate in any tests for new medications coming out because I tend to have allergies towards some of the ingredients.

      People who take medicines for chronic pain relief also need to consider they're taking things in doses that could have consequences later on. I've been on medicines that required I visit the hospital once a month to have blood tests done. This insured things such as my liver was still fine. I'm very glad that new medicines or new ways of administering medicines is being looked into. When I started taking Enbrel, I heard that scientists were researching a way to easily inject pain medication directly to the pain recptors, so that you can get around problems such as liver or stomach malfunctions. Now, there may be something similar to morphine that doesn't have the negative effect of addicting people. I really hope this works as they intend it to and I hope scientists continue to find new ways to treat chronic pain and even better, find cures for the various diseases causing chronic pain.

    49. Re:Heroin by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      I don't think there's a big conspiracy here.

      A powerful pain drug is addictive, but most importantly out of patent monopoly protection. Pharmaceutical company twiddles the molecule enough to patent it again, and get another 17 years of pain-free profits.

      Americans take more pills than any other nation, including mood-altering prescriptions. For some reason, there is a hypocritical anti-recreational drug mindset.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    50. Re:Heroin by morie · · Score: 1

      Believe me, coffee is adictive

      I once stoped cold turkey. Went on a sailing trip (tea only on board) after cramming for exams and drinking 15-20 mugs of coffee/day. I can still remember the headache and see my hands shaking. It lasted 3 days (then I got a cup of coffee, figured out what was happening in the frst place and got myself a coffee each morning.

      The reason coffee isn't on the list to be forbidden is twofold:
      - It doesn't make you agressive or stoned or cause others harm in any way (cf booze, sigarettes
      - Way to many people are addicted, including policy makers

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
    51. Re:Heroin by coopex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ever come into close contact with nicotine? It's deadly at ~40mg, and horribly corrosive, whilst morphine is a nice bitter powder that's safe up to 100mg for first time users.

      As for morphines side effects, is being constipated considered that "nasty", or would the euphoria be considered bad?

      Furthermore, the"soldier's disease" is a myth, which should be rather obvious considering the DEA was formed 100 years after the civil war.

      As other people have said, the stigma assoicated with drugs is far more due to puritanical ideas about suffering and politics than any real problems.

      --
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    52. Re:Heroin by Squiffy · · Score: 1

      Hold on now, you work in pharmacy and don't know how to spell "prescribe"?

    53. Re:Heroin by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      Dogma aside, the bible itself has many instances showing that Drugs and Alcohol were made available for man use to alleviate pain and sorrow.

      I think the desire to regulate the use of drugs, and morality in general,that is shown by those who practice the christian faith stems from a jealousy of not being able to indulge in previous desires and thusly wanting others to have to follow the same rules...

    54. Re:Heroin by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Sorry, Snowgirl. I didn't look at your handle. Mea Culpa.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    55. Re:Heroin by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      It would appear that Herione, Methadone, and this new opiate are considerations for giving a non-addictive pain-killer, while "bupe" is typically useful for treatement of existing addiction.

      This is because "bupe" is not a full-agonist of the mu-receptor which is targetted in painkillers, it's just a partial-agonist, and at the same time very strongly binding.

      I would say in a medical situation of pain management, one would want to treat the pain with a full-agonist, which will treat the pain well, and hope that likely the patient isn't predisposed towards the addiction, rather than risk a strongly binding partial-agonist, since the strongly binding means that it's very difficult to treat an overdose.

      As doctor which would you rather treat someone with? Something that may cause them to be addicted to it, but if they do, you can treat that, and if they overdose (on their own, or in your care) you can respond effectively against it, or something that will likely not cause any addiction, but if they overdose (on their own, or in your care) you can't do much of anything about it at all.

      I'd certainly be reluctant to use something with a very low correctability.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    56. Re:Heroin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No offense meant to you, but the idea that God wants us to suffer sickens me. The very thought is the product of a deranged mind.

      At some point, a religious consolation which was supposed to make people feel better about their pain (I'm sorry we can't help your pain, but something good may come of it) became twisted into a message that pain was good for the soul (which is why the Inquisitor needs all these implements of torture.) But don't try to understand it, it's a mystery...


      Nothing good can come out of the administering of pain. Anybody who uses the excuse "well it's a mystery, you aren't supposed to understand" is just covering their own ignorance. Also, anybody who insists that God does things like cause problems to "test" people, or kills babies to make angels is also sick and twisted and is just projecting their own thinking onto God. Yes, I realize that covers the vast majority of religious people.

      If you are at all a spiritual (not religeous) person please don't judge God by the whackjobs who claim to follow him.

    57. Re:Heroin by Nutria · · Score: 1
      As for morphines side effects, is being constipated considered that "nasty", or would the euphoria be considered bad?

      Respratory depression is pretty bad.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    58. Re:Heroin by coopex · · Score: 1
      --
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    59. Re:Heroin by painehope · · Score: 1
      "make one feel grumpier and more irritable, and have some signs like a mild flu, and that's it"


      Please - do a bit more reading or talk to someone that has gone through serious opiate withdrawals. Methadone ( and oxycontin, from what I hear ) withdrawals are excruciating, to the point of being very physically painful and the fatigue and insomnia are so bad you can't get comfortable laying down, don't have the energy to get up and do anything. I don't know anyone who's kicked methadone w/out going back on heroin or whatever their opiate of choice was.
      Heroin withdrawals are bad, something like a major flu, but tolerable if you've managed to reduce your daily intake to a low enough level. Smoking pot or taking tranquilizers helps, especially w/ regards to the insomnia. Some people get them worse than others, but they're not pleasant for anyone. Some of the milder opiates, like hydrocodone and family ( what I call "housewife heroin" ) don't have much in the way of withdrawals other than insomnia.


      Methadone is like giving someone rat poison to get them to quit smoking. Opiate addiction will kill you over time, but methadone does immediate, long-term damage even if only used for a short time. And methadone treatment programs are almost always geared towards a long-term maintenance method. It couldn't be because even with rent and staffing, methadone clinics are making money hand over fist, could it? ( Google for methadone+clinic+profit+margin )...

      --
      PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
    60. Re:Heroin by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      I stand by my statements. My career in nursing has involved work with trauma patients and substance abuse clients. I've seen my share of opioid withdrawals and I used to keep up with the research appropriate to patient care concerns.

      Don't tell me about pain, honey. Assisting people as they deal with pain, from all kinds of sources, was my vocation for too many years. A heart attack victim who requires heroic amounts of intravenous morphine (the drug of choice because it relaxes coronary vasoconstriction as well as being a powerful analgesic) during the first days of his crisis becomes physiologically addicted and experiences withdrawal symptoms later on. Those symptoms don't have the same cognitive representation for him as they do for the substance abuser, and the affective ("emotional") responses are very different. So his withdrawal is often a flu-like inconvenience while he deals with the world-shaking issues he faces, such as whether he can go back to his old job, and whether sex will ever be the same for him again.

      But for the substance abuser whose whole life has become an orbit around his habit, the very same kind of withdrawal IS a world-shaking problem. He is like a planet whose sun has gone nova and winked out of existence; his outer world is burned up and the core of him that remains is now on a free trajectory through a cold and empty universe. That is an incredibly painful experience. But although it is triggered by the physiologic withdrawal, it is NOT the withdrawal. If it were, we would have a much lower survival rate for heart attacks, eh?

      Anyone who actually cares enough to research pain and the way it manifests would find the Wikipedia article on pain a good place to start. I've just given it a quick look-over, and it seems to provide a pretty good overview while remaining accessable to the lay person. I suspect that one could get a very good idea of the complexity of pain as a human experience by following the links in that article.

    61. Re:Heroin by painehope · · Score: 1
      I stand by my statements...career in nursing has involved work with...substance abuse clients
      Don't tell me about pain, honey.


      Don't talk to me about pain, Virginia. I spent 17 years ingesting almost every chemical known to man, so I got to observe the effects firsthand, as well as dealing with more mundane pain ( stabbed twice, caught on fire twice, bodily hit by a motor vehicle twice, multiple falls from two story or higher buildings, gone head-first through two windshields in accidents that totalled all vehicles involved, etc. ). I've broken about half the bones in my body ( and yes, I know that there are hundreds of bones in the human body, I am unfortunately intimately familiar w/ human physiology due to my experiences and studies ), though thankfully I haven't done any serious damage to my spinal column. I've flatlined twice for periods longer than a minute. I know a couple things about pain. Note that I'm not whining, and I'm not saying that all pain is absolutely debilitating, I'm just stating that the human body experiences pain when injured or sick. How you choose to deal with that pain is up to you.


      My statements about opiate withdrawals ( and pain ) are from first-hand experience. Methadone withdrawal is bad - all the lethargy, aches, insomnia, and whatnot of heroin withdrawal, plus blazing pain that makes you feel as if you are being given a low-voltage shock to your entire body. Heroin withdrawal is not quite as bad, but it still sucks a big one. For someone who is taking a large daily ( 2+ grams ) dose, it is bad enough that they can't function even at a minimal level ( enough to feed and bathe themselves effectively ). If you can reduce your habit to low enough level ( .3g or less a day ), and then quit, it's not quite as bad, but you still get the flu effect I described, insomnia, dairraghea(sp?), vomiting, etc. I have never kicked a habit w/out going through some degree of hell.


      I find it humorous that you seem to think that much of the pain of withdrawal is from emotional and mental issues related to how the user perceived their habit in relation to their life. Physical withdrawal is painful. Whether you choose to amplify the pain w/ dramatics about your life situation or blow it off and keep going is entirely up to the subject, but it doesn't change the base fact that the withdrawal is a physical pain.


      Like most people in the health industry, you have no first-hand knowledge of the things you treat. You like to spout off a bunch of psudeo-objective statements about how the subject feels based on past observations ( more like based off your innate feelings of superiority over the addict ), but you lack any empathy for your subjects because you've never felt anything remotely like what they are undergoing. I have, and memories of days spent vomiting, tossing and turning, trying to hold down a little bit of food, clawing at the sheets while writhing in pain and absolute misery, while knowing that relief is just a fix away ( but w/ that relief comes resumption of the habit ), are still very fresh in my mind. I've also kicked a habit in jail, which is miserable beyond belief.


      I sincerely hope, for the sake of your patients and yourself, that you pay a little bit more attention to what they are going through, and learn some empathy for your fellow human being. Of course, that's why a lot of places don't use anyone as a substance abuse counselor who isn't also a recovering addict - they know the truth of the experience, so they can call bullshit on what is really bullshit, and can also know when someone is truly suffering.

      --
      PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
    62. Re:Heroin by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      Oh, my.

      I've apparently touched a nerve or two.

      I am so sorry, dear.


      Now when you get your blood pressure back under control and can achieve that state of mind that is receptive to learning new things, you really should try reading up on what is known about the pain experience (and probably about withdrawal, habituation, and dependency). Doing so is very likely to improve the quality of the rest of your life, and might even make it possible for you to come to better terms with some of your memories.

      As to the severity of your pain experiences, I do not and I have not made any judgment about those. You state that some of the worst were triggered by physiologic withdrawal from opioids. Some other people go through opioid withdrawal without feeling that same kind of intense pain experience. That doesn't deny your experience. It is not an "either - or" kind of thing.

      I find it interesting that you somehow know that I have no first hand knowledge of intense pain or of opioid withdrawal. You seem to have very advanced extra sensory perception. Or maybe you are just very, very wrong. Since I'm not about to show off my scars and boo-boos on Slashdot, this is going to remain unresolved. It would be wise of you to learn to live with a certain amount of ambiguity, especially concerning the personal history of strangers.

      One other thing-- don't confuse clinical detachment with a lack of empathy. There is no way in hell that I am going to enable drug-seeking behaviors with expressions of sympathy. You've got a damn tough road ahead of you, but apparently from what you have written you have faced as bad or worse and gotten through it. It's stupid to dwell on how bad the problems are. It saps you of the energy you need to meet them and beat them. Deal with it; don't waste time and energy talking about it.

      Here is something written more than 100 years ago by a fellow who had just had one leg amputated for tuberculosis of the bone (an excruciatingly painful disease), and was refusing to let the doctors amputate his other leg: Invictus.

    63. Re:Heroin by painehope · · Score: 1

      It's interesting to see your response vacillate between patronizing, psuedo-objectivity and some rather intelligent, rational statements. My original statement was that my experience and a lifetime of observation contradicted a comment in your original post, and I stand by it. Everything since just proves that, in addition to having no idea what opiate withdrawals feel like, you have also taken most of what I have said as a personal attack ( when what I have done primarily is state what I view to be an observable fact, and my experience and credentials for being able to make such statements w/ any credibility ), leading me to conclude that you are engaging in a bit of trolling for fun ( albeit, I think you've done an excellent job of it, and I agree with some of your statements, but you are going a bit too far out w/ the "Oh, my"'s and whatnot - if you're trying to pull someone's chain, it's best not to exhibit a sense of humor yourself ). It's okay, I understand that not everyone has a very fulfilling life outside of /., and I definitely don't mind a bit of dialogue/debate. Anyways, thanks for a bit of amusement, cheers...

      --
      PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
    64. Re:Heroin by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      Good day to you, painehope.

  3. No such thing by HillaryWBush · · Score: 0
    "I have heard that there was once a beneficent non-habit-forming junk in India. It was called soma and is pictured as a beautiful blue tide. If soma ever existed the Pusher was there to bottle it and monopolize it and sell it and it turned into plain old time JUNK."

    http://yardbird.com/william_s_burroughs_deposition .htm

  4. Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by user9918277462 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Painkillers (opioid painkillers, specifically) are addictive precisely because of their analgesic effects. Addiction and analgesia are not separate traits, but rather two aspects of the same action. Anything that provides strong central pain relief (as opposed to peripheral analgesia as in NSAIDs) has at least some risk of causing psychological or physical dependence.

    1. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Pedrito · · Score: 4, Informative

      Painkillers (opioid painkillers, specifically) are addictive precisely because of their analgesic effects.

      Don't confuse addiction with habit. Addiction is a physical dependency and that aspect doesn't necessarily have any relation to its analgesic effect. Aspirin has analgesic properties, but NO addictive qualities.

      What makes opioids addictive is unknown. What makes them analgesic is, to some degree, understood. The two may be linked, but because something is analgesic does not make it addictive. It may be "habit-forming", on the other hand. Marijuana, for example, can be habit-forming, but it is not addictive because one does not develop a physical dependence on the presence of the drug in their system.

    2. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Nik13 · · Score: 1

      Even if they claimed lesser or no dependance, I still wouldn't try it. I am addicted to morphine, but it's not a big problem, as I'm unlikely to stop taking it anytime soon (chronic pain). And like you said, the new painkiller might turn out to be just addictive (or maybe even more - like was discovered before for other drugs). And I don't like being a guinea pig for new drugs. I've taken a fair amount of vioxx before, which seemingly wasn't so good for me, even though previous studies likely showed it was harmless or such. Morphine has been in use for like... forever? We pretty much already know all the bad stuff about it. And the new drugs just might have some very bad side effects too. I already have decent pain control from a rather safe drug, causing hardly any side effetcts (cost is relatively resonable too - I can only see the new stuff cost even more). I don't see any reason to switch anytime soon.

      --
      ///<sig />
    3. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Baddas · · Score: 4, Informative

      Read the grandparent again. Asprin is a drug that acts very similarly to NSAIDs, which he SPECIFICALLY disclaimed

      Marijuana is a non sequitur, he's talking about central nervous system analgesics.

      Try that one again, this time, with reading comprehension.

      For reference:
      Asprin: peripheral analgesic
      Heroin: central analgesic
      Ibuprofen: peripheral analgesic
      Oxycodone: central analgesic.

      See a pattern here? pethidine, oxycodone, hydrocodone, diamorphine, fentanyl, basically anything that is inhibited by a mu antagonist is going to get you addicted if you take it long enough.

    4. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by E++99 · · Score: 1
      Painkillers (opioid painkillers, specifically) are addictive precisely because of their analgesic effects.
      Not true. Tramodol (Ultram), for example, is an an opioid-like analgesic that is not at all addictive.
    5. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by ElephanTS · · Score: 0, Troll

      Actually that's a common misperception about marajuana. It is physically addictive and heavy users experience shakes,sweats and all sorts in withdrawal. It's possibly due to larger quantites of THC present in modern weed - but it is definitely physically addictive. Trust me, I was there till last year and know many, many people who have suffered in the same way.

      --
      spoonerize "magic trackpad"
    6. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by krunk4ever · · Score: 1
      I believe the grandparent already made an explicit statement on what type of pain killers were addictive and which were not.

      Anything that provides strong central pain relief (as opposed to peripheral analgesia as in NSAIDs) has at least some risk of causing psychological or physical dependence.


      According to dictionary.com:
      http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nsaid
      NSAID also Nsaid
      n. A nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug, such as aspirin or ibuprofen.


      Therefore both of you acknowledge that opioid painkillers are addictive and the fact there are painkillers that are not. The only thing I see you guys disagreeing on is the reason why opioids are addictive and the usage of the word addiction.

      To be honest, addiction doesn't require a physical dependence. One can be addicted to computers, games, or internet without having a real physical dependance on it. The article states that It's not well understood what structural features are responsible for the addictive properties of morphine, but I would assume it's something chemical related. They're trying to reduce the addictive quality of strong pain killers, not remove it, as they said: But it is possible they have found a key to a kinder morphinelike drug that would have potential medicinal applications.
    7. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by ElephanTS · · Score: 1

      why is that a troll? It's all getting a bit medieval round here.

      --
      spoonerize "magic trackpad"
    8. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were "jonesing". At no time were your metabolic processes affected. You have presented no evidence beyond an anecdote.

      Your experiences still don't justify kicking down peoples doors and prosecuting doctors.

    9. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by dirty · · Score: 1

      No, it's really not.

      --

      -matt
    10. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by netwiz · · Score: 1

      Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

      You're telling me that an effect heretofore unnoticed in over a century of testing and use has suddenly been discovered, but we'll keep it a secret, you know, so we can win the "War on Drugs."

      The sensation you're experiencing upon having read that sentence is called "cognitive dissonance." It's because the thought represented is contradictory, or wrong. Specifics? Empirical evidence? (i know, on /., right?) C'mon, you can do better than that. /weak with a side of weak sauce.

    11. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      I was on morphine for a couple of weeks when I had peritonitis as a teenager. The nurses told me that addiction basically didn't happen when people were using it for pain. I never had any withdrawal symptoms, and never felt any psychological need for it. I think it affected my mental state a lot, since I was pretty close to dying, but I didn't worry much. This country is just in the grips of hysteria about drugs. It's a real shame when it keeps people with cancer, or old people who are dying, from getting enough pain relief. A lot of doctors are afraid to prescribe enough to stop the pain, because they have a (very realistic) fear of being investigated by the government.

      Of course it's possible for people to start on painkillers for medical reasons, and then get addicted to them. But how is that going to happen with morphine? It's normally given by injection in the hospital, and according to the Wikipedia article, when you take it orally, it's taken up much less efficiently by the body, and you don't get any rush. (I wouldn't know -- I never experienced a rush with injection.) It's not like the unemployed guy, depressed, who's recovering from a back injury at home, and they've sent a jar of pills home with him. And even if there's some risk of addiction, that's not a good enough reason to crucify people who are in horrible pain from cancer, or to make an old person suffer in agony for six months or a year before he dies.

      It would have been nice if having a president who's a former alcoholic could have led to some honest dialog about the war on drugs. Oh, well. What people do to their own bodies is their own business. Let's legalize all drugs, and put the street gangs out of business.

    12. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were probably tagged troll because weed is not physically addictive. In other words the body doesn't crave it, the mind does. People get addicted to the feeling of being high. Research done by a professor in my former school also (apparently) showed that it is less physically addictive than nicotine. Instead of a nicotine patch you could actually try other methods of getting high. Apparently excercise works.

      disclaimer: this is paraphrasing a professor. I have no first hand knowledge of quitting weed. Mostly because I judt dont want to.
      :D

    13. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by 7Prime · · Score: 1
      To be honest, addiction doesn't require a physical dependence. One can be addicted to computers, games, or internet without having a real physical dependance on it. The article states that It's not well understood what structural features are responsible for the addictive properties of morphine, but I would assume it's something chemical related. They're trying to reduce the addictive quality of strong pain killers, not remove it, as they said: But it is possible they have found a key to a kinder morphinelike drug that would have potential medicinal applications.

      What you described isn't an addiction, what you described is defenitely a dependancy, or habit-forming activity, which may or may not be just as harmful in the long-run as an addiction. But the actual definition of an addiction is a physical/chemical dependancy. Computer Games, Marijuana, even some every-day things like playing music, can become habit-forming, psychological dependancies, but none are addictions. Addictions include withdrawl symptoms, which psychological dependancies do not. If I stop playing video games for a few weeks, it might feel a little strange, I might miss it for a while, but I'm not going to start vomitting, getting massive headaches, and feeling physically ill.

      The additional problem is that chemical addictions usually also form psychological dependancies, because of their regularity and supposed "neccessity" in a person's life. For this reason, addictions are usually doubly as potent a problem as plain-old psychological dependancies.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    14. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I hate to say it but all the studies of THC prove your wrong, smoking cannabis is not physically addictive in the least. You had a habit, not an addiction. When you spend a few says tearing apart a locked room half the time and the other half lying in the fetal position from the withdrawal pains, you will know what addiction is. Longing for a high is definitely not physical addiction.

    15. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You're telling me that an effect heretofore unnoticed in over a century of testing and use has suddenly been discovered

      Cigarrette companies used that same arguement.
    16. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the contrary, the common misconception is that marijuana is physically addictive. Your psychologically-induced withdrawal symptoms notwithstanding, cannabis or marijuana is not physically addictive. (Although it is entirely possible you may have gotten yourself hooked on laced weed. As the saying goes, buyer beware -- especially on the black market.)

      You can read the truth about marijuana known to all good doctors (but continuously misrepresented by the U.S. government):

      Cannabis (Marijuana) Dependence

      Chronic or periodic use of cannabis producing some psychologic dependence but no physical dependence. [emphasis added]

      Any drug that causes euphoria and diminishes anxiety can cause dependence, and cannabis is no exception. However, heavy use and complaints of inability to stop are unusual. Cannabis can be used episodically without evidence of social or psychologic dysfunction. The term dependence probably is misapplied to many users. No withdrawal syndrome occurs when the drug is discontinued, but some heavy users report disrupted sleep and nervousness when they stop.

      [...]

      Critics of marijuana cite much scientific data regarding adverse effects, but most of the claims regarding severe biologic impact are unsubstantiated, even among relatively heavy users and in areas intensively investigated, such as immunologic and reproductive function. However, high-dose smokers of marijuana develop pulmonary symptoms (episodes of acute bronchitis, wheezing, coughing, and increased phlegm), and pulmonary function may be altered. This is manifested by large airway changes of unknown significance. Even daily smokers do not develop obstructive airway disease. Pulmonary carcinoma has not been reported in persons who smoke only marijuana, possibly because less smoke is inhaled than during cigarette smoking. However, biopsies of bronchial tissue sometimes show precancerous changes, so carcinoma may occur. In a few case-control studies, some tests detected diminished cognitive function in small samples of long-term high-dose users; this finding awaits confirmation. Studies in newborns have not found evidence of fetal harm due to maternal use of cannabis. Decreased fetal weight has been reported, but when all factors (eg, maternal alcohol and tobacco use) are accounted for, the effect on fetal weight disappears. -9-Tetrahydrocannabinol is secreted in breast milk. Although no harm to breastfed babies has been shown, breastfeeding mothers, like pregnant women, are advised to avoid using cannabis.


      That last part is to help counter your D.A.R.E. education. You have been lied to. Please stop repeating those lies. It makes you look foolish.

    17. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by puck01 · · Score: 1

      Isn't acetaminophen (tylenol) centrally acting? Sure its not an opiate and has a different mechanism of action, but it is centrally acting.

    18. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by ElephanTS · · Score: 1

      I don't know what to say. Physical withdrawals from skunk are well known - at least by users - which contradict the MJ isn't physically addictive idea that has common currency. I am not repeating lies, I am recounting my experience. Tell you what: smoke 1/2oz of high THC skunk per week for six years and see how you feel about what you think is true then. I know it's not heroin (I have a couple of close friends that were on H who finally and heroically kicked it), I know it's not cocaine (my gf used to be a 4g a day girl back in the days when we met) and so on. This is not like having a bit of a toke with friends when you can.

      So seriously, I come from a drug culture, and never peddle government bullshit. But I do know that myself, and dozens of other heavy users that I know thru an internet site for people with drug problems will tell you - THC causes physical withdrawals.

      Unless you've used it at that level I don't see how you can know better.

      --
      spoonerize "magic trackpad"
    19. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by user9918277462 · · Score: 1

      No. The exact mechanism of action of acetaminophen (APAP, paracetamol) is not totally understood, however recent research has shown that it is an indirect inhibitor of COX (which is similar to aspirin and the classic NSAIDs) and may act on a previously unknown variant of COX called COX-3. (see the wikipedia paracetamol article for futhur details)

    20. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by mqduck · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse addiction with habit. Addiction is a physical dependency

      You've got the right idea, but you've got the terminology wrong. "Addiction" can be "mental" (which is more than a mere habit).

      --
      Property is theft.
    21. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No, it does not. You have also bought hook, line, and sinker the lie about THC content having increased since the 60's. No, it has not. If you really did experience physical dependence on the drug, then your source of "skunk", as it were, was selling you cannabis laced with something else. Of course, such an occurrence would not be a problem were the government and its agents to stop prohibition and instead move to regulation.

      Unless you've used it at that level I don't see how you can know better.

      I do not see how you can conclude based on your anecdotal experience that decades of scientific research into marijuana or cannabis somehow have failed to capture this. I return you to the written word from the world's most widely used medical textbook:

      Chronic or periodic use of cannabis producing some psychologic dependence but no physical dependence. [emphasis added]

    22. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by krunk4ever · · Score: 1
      Once again, this is arguing the definition of addiction. You're using the word addiction only in a very specific sense. Or maybe the word today has just grown to incorporate many more scenarios than just the ones that have withdrawal symptoms.

      from dictionary.com:
      http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=addiction
      n.

            1.
                        1. Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance: a drug used in the treatment of heroin addiction.
                        2. An instance of this: a person with multiple chemical addictions.
            2.
                        1. The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.
                        2. An instance of this: had an addiction for fast cars.


      You're saying addiction can only mean #1's definition, while I'm saying it can mean both #1 and #2. Do you think "addiction for fast cars" will have the physical/pscological dependence that you're referring to?

      from Merriam-Webster:
      http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/addiction
      1 : the quality or state of being addicted <addiction to reading>
      2 : compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful


      Once again, will the symptoms you mentioned happened to an "addiction to reading"?
    23. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, but COX-3 is felt to be restricted to the central nervous (brain and spinal cord), so the previous poster is correct, as far as we know, that paracetamol is a good example of a pain medication that is not addictive but does act on the CNS (this would also be a good explanation as to why paracetamol is a reasonable anagesic and antipyretic [working on the hypothalamus], but lacks the additional anti-inflammatory and anti-platelet properties possessed by ASA, a non-specific COX inhibitor).

      As a neurologist, many of the drugs that I use to treat neuropathic pain in my MS patients act centrally but are not addictive (eg. amitriptyline, tegretol, gabapentin, etc.), though patients can be physically dependent (provided they can tolerate them!).

    24. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the sake of getting help for us users, please mod parent up.

    25. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

      Marijuana is a non sequitur, he's talking about central nervous system analgesics.

      Why is it a non-sequitur? It has a general pain killing effect, a very good one at that, and it acts on the central nervous system.

      Please be adding some facts, rather than just asserting from an unfounded position of authority.

    26. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse addiction with habit. Addiction is a physical dependency and that aspect doesn't necessarily have any relation to its analgesic effect.

      No, Physical Dependency is dependency, it's metabolic. Addiction is a behaviour, it's the watching the clock for the nurse to come around, or planning tommorrow around your drug taking schedule.

      Almost everyone who uses opioids for a long period develops dependency. Those who over-medicate develop addiction.

    27. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. It is the euphoria that people crave. There is no such thing as addiction.

    28. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 1

      Informative? Nonsense is more like it.

      Opiates bind to a set of receptors which compensate for the presence of the molecules by raising the level of an internal signalling protein. Once that level has been raised, removing the opiate causes internal depletion of the signalling protein's substrate; that depletion causes withdrawal symptoms if it is sufficiently complete.

      Other analgesics, such as acetominophen (Tylenol) and naproxen, work by indirect pathways, and do not create dependency.

    29. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Research done by a professor in my former school also (apparently) showed that it is less physically addictive than nicotine. isn't nicotine the gold-standard for physical addictivness? While nicotine whithdrawl isn't the most spectacular, it's definatenly one of the longest with symptoms typically last a year or more. When I stopped smoking weed and hashish it was a matter of just deciding to stop, nicotine has been a real fight. I've gone though the patch treatment this time and seems like I'll make it, but some days are still bad ones with lots of physical symptoms and that's after being off the patch for a month.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    30. Re:Next up: Fire that doesn't burn you! by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      I believe it has been shown to cause physical withdrawal under artificial circumstances (by administering a THC receptor inhibitor).

  5. heard it before by r00t · · Score: 2, Funny

    To avoid the addictive problems of morphine, we invented heroin. Oops.

  6. Morphine doesnt stop pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative


    as someone who was recently in hospital and had morphine (and as a person who has done just about every drug there is) i can say it doesnt actually _stop_ the pain it just makes you not care about it, but it was still there even when wasted out of my skull it just makes you not care

    now a painkiller that would actually take away pain would iam sure be welcomed

    1. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by rking · · Score: 0
      now a painkiller that would actually take away pain would iam sure be welcomed

      Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling a new morphine substitute.
    2. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by saleenS281 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it just wasn't effective on you because of your aforementioned other drug "experiments". It turns out things like morphine are basically worthless to ex-crack addicts because they've built up an immunity/tolerance to things that take away pain for most of us.

      As someone who was also recently in the hospital, and also recently had morphine, it most definitely takes away the pain.

    3. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on the cause of the pain and the type and dose of the opiate. At one point, Percocet (an opioid plus aspirin) neither stopped my kidney stone related pain nor reduced the annoyance of it adequately. Even after doubling the maximum labelled dosage. A friend dropped me off at the hospital where they injected demerol (yet another opioid), and within 15 minutes the pain was gone. Zero. Nada. Zip.

      Amusingly, the hosiptal discharged me without so much as a question about my plans and I happily walked (wobbled?) home.

      On another occasion, and for a different reason, I was hooked up to a morphine dispensing machine. I was given a button to press, which dispensed tiny doses "as needed". When I think back about all of the pain I have ever experienced, this may have ben the worst. The tiny doses were entirely worthless. Every so often, I could get another boost, with the hope that I might eventually get enough of the drug in my system to ease the pain. Even though I could hardly feel any benefit, I had to keep pushing the button while racked with intense pain. Passing out would provide temporary relief because I was unconscious, but I would wake up in even more pain, with the knowledge that the drugs I needed were in the machine next to me, yet not reasonably available.

    4. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm recovering from surgery at this very moment. Vicodin (hydrocodone) does actually make pain go away. And thank God for that. I was on a Demerol (meperidine) IV in the recovery room too, and that also makes pain go away. Sounds like you just weren't on the right drugs.

    5. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 1

      Then you are one of the people who are immune to it. I'm immune to Demarol; for others, it's an effective painkiller, for me it does nothing. We don't think about it, but it is entirely possible to be immune to painkillers. The next time you are hospitalzed you should mention to your doctor that morphine doesn't appear to work for you.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
    6. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was in the hospital last year for a femoral neck fracture (broken hip) and spent the whole day and most the night on a gurney waiting for surgery. I was being given morphine regularly, at first intraveneously, then into muscle tissue. For all practical purposes it did jack-all for my pain... Although, it did a fine job of stopping me from being able to pee for a couple days.

      (I have never tried crack.)

    7. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Vicodin also works for me. I take one, in about fifteen minutes or less I fall asleep and stay that way for at least four hours, if not longer. As long as I'm asleep, I feel no pain.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    8. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by stickystyle · · Score: 2, Informative

      As someone who was also recently in the hospital, and also recently had morphine, it most definitely takes away the pain.
      I would have toagree with the parent also, it just makes you not care, sometimes to the point where you -forget- its there. The pain is still there.
      ...although i cannot discount your experience, I am not you and everyone reacts slightly differently to medication. You qualify that statement in your post.

      --
      Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
    9. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by avar · · Score: 1

      I had the same experience as he had without his drug history. Perhaps they didn't give me high enough a dosage but I still felt pain when I thought about it but not to any larger degree than one might feel something pressing against the skin (e.g. cloathes). Pain is too strong a word here anyway, what I felt at the time gave me a definite feeling that pain was going on at some level in the body, It just didn't feel any different than any other kind of sensory input, i.e. it didn't hurt.

    10. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not sure that I agree with you completely about it not causing complete pain relief. My one experience with fentanyl during the extraction of four wisdom teeth was quite the opposite! I was given a single dose of IV fentanyl (and I can understand how some people get addicted; the rush of this stuff hitting the CNS was incredible) and was out for half the procedure, but only half. I came to underneath the green towel and could feel this incredible pressure on my jaw (the oral surgery resident was trying his best, those teeth were a bitch to come out) and could HEAR the shattering of the enamel, but felt NOTHING. I remember thinking, "Those are my teeth. Cool." And trust me, no one has ever accused me of having a high pain threshold! And there was pain once the fentanyl had worn off (though nothing that dexamethsone and Tylenol #4 couldn't handle).

      I would wonder whether or not you'd been given a sufficient dose, or if your respose was tempered by previous exposures.

    11. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by localman · · Score: 1

      Having had morphine on two seperate occasions post-op in the past three years, I'll have to disagree. Both times a shot of morphine knocked the pain out in seconds flat. Amazing stuff, really. It made me a little disoriented and sleepy, too, but the pain was definitely gone. No addictive properties that I detected with just those two small doses. YMMV.

      Cheers.

    12. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by jaraxle · · Score: 1

      As someone who was also recently in the hospital, and also recently had morphine, it most definitely takes away the pain

      I can agree to this 100%. A few years back I had a bad case of kidney stones that had me in and out of the hospital for 4 days. I was in writhing agony, the pain so bad I was throwing up because of it. Fortunately triage admitted me quickly and I was on morphine within half an hour of entering the emergency room, followed with a dose of toridol for long term painkilling. The morphine most definitely killed the pain because while I was in agony I could barely move without assistance. On morphine, and later toridol, I was able to roll over in the bed, sit up (albeit difficult due to being heavily stoned), etc. I also was most definitely not in agony anymore.

      By the way, a small dose of morphine followed up with toridol is great for pain. The morphine is to get rid of the pain quickly while allowing the toridol to get to work, which takes half an hour or so to take effect (and as far as I know, isn't addictive).

    13. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 1

      no drug history here, pain killers just make you not care about the pain. I have a weird tolerance for pain though, i can go to the dentist and have teeth filled with no drugs and don't have any problem.

      --
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    14. Re:Morphine doesnt stop pain by painehope · · Score: 1
      Well, there's a few things to bear in mind here :

      1) I seem to recall a slew of studies a few years back that indicated that people that had the physical characteristics that made them more likely to become drug addicts/heavy users ( there are people who can do hard drugs and still not become addicted ) shared some of the same genetic traits that made some medicines have ineffective or unpredictable effects on them.

      2) I've had an incredibly high tolerance for some substances my entire life, long before I touched any mind-altering substances, legal or not. As a child, I often had to get a dozen or more shots of the cocaine-based local anaesthetics that dentists use to numb you prior to any serious dental work. As an adult, I just tell any new dentist I go to about this and they order some sort of "super anaesthetic" that is like eighty percent research grade cocaine. When I began using cocaine when I was about 13, I didn't get much of a rush from it unless I consumed insane amounts of it, and after I developed even more of a tolerance, it got to the point where I couldn't get more than a mild rush ( about the same as drinking 6 shots of espresso ) from snorting/smoking fairly large quantities of the drug. With the wisdom and foresight that only 17-year olds can know, I decided to go the route of intravenous injection, which produced the desired results w/out a chronically stuffed-up nose. Needless to say, today I stay well the fuck away from the stuff, but between that, speed ( before all this cheap anhydrous ammonia-based shit they call ice came around ) and heroin I lost quite a few dollars ( and my freedom at times ) between the age of seventeen and my mid-20's. I also have a similar tolerance for alcohol and opiates, but the opiate tolerance is an acquired tolerance, whereas the alcohol tolerance is a combination of German, Irish, and Cherokee genes...

      3) Not all variations of opiate painkillers are as effective as others, regardless of what the pharmacists say. Vicodon, darvocet, and percocet are all useless to me, and were even before I engaged in heavy use of heroin. However, a few other opiates that are not as strong as those 4 ( can't remember their names for sure, but I think Loritab is one of them ) but are supposed to be in the same branch do okay on me for minor pains. For serious pain, morphine works fine, codeine doesn't do shit, demerol is okay in high doses, dilaudid works great, oxycontin is barely sufficient ( and has some very nasty addictive properties, worse than heroin - I've seen people in jail coming off of a oxy habit, and it makes even heroin habits look pretty in comparison ), but if I'm in any kind of really serious pain I have my wife go score something on the side ( generally heroin or Dilaudid ) and bring it to me. Surprisingly, valium and/or xanex are excellent for pain. While they don't relieve the pain itself, these two tranquilizers do relieve a lot of the anxiety associated with the pain. Kind of like what morphine does to me - I can still feel the pain, but the rest of me feels so good that I don't give a shit about it. Of course, another thing that sucks is that U.S. hospitals don't give you much painkillers when they do at all. I've had doctors try to give me ibuprofen for a broken bone before. What a fucking joke...

      Anyways, TFA article isn't related much to what was posted, but I can tell you what I wish it was : an effective treatment for opiate addiction. The current methods available in the U.S. are a fucking joke. Methadone is fine is you want to be on something that destroys your bone marrow and liver for long-term maintenance, but it's useless for those of us who just want to get off opiates w/out going cold turkey ( which is almost impossible while working - try telling your boss that you're going to be gone somewhere between 7 and 12 days, especially since if you're a junkie you've probably used up a lot of your sick and vacation days due to being unable to cop and being sick at one point or another ). The only ot

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  7. Hardly a new concept by slapyslapslap · · Score: 3, Informative

    There are several companies out there with similar meds in trials. Pain Therapeutics, Inc. http://www.paintrials.com/ is doing this.

  8. Got time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Morphine without high. Non-alcholic beers. Mono (.NET on Linux). All things trainspotters laugh at.

  9. Contra-dick-tory by Philomathie · · Score: 0

    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but after reading the summary, do I see the contradiction they claimn that the synthetic compound they invented is "natural"?

    1. Re:Contra-dick-tory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The term "natural" is THE oxymoron if there ever was one. How is milk produced by cow any or thread prduced by spider any more "natural" than iPod produced by human? Humans are not part fo the nature?

    2. Re:Contra-dick-tory by kfg · · Score: 2, Funny

      How is milk produced by cow any or thread prduced by spider any more "natural" than iPod produced by human?

      Can you pull an iPod out of your ass?

      I mean one you haven't put there first.

      KFG

    3. Re:Contra-dick-tory by lartful_dodger · · Score: 1

      This is an extremely disingenuous argument.

      Western philosophy, religion and therefore culture in general have traditionally maintained as one of their most central tenets the dichotomy of nature versus culture - that is, the "human" world versus the "natural" world, with the implicit concept of 'man' as the inheritor and master of 'nature'.

      Artifacts produced by 'man' are therefore products of culture, not nature, and while it may be in the nature of 'man' to create said artifacts, it does not imply a crossing of the nature/culture divide, as humans remain, by definition, on their side of the picture, and nature, ever productive and sumbissive to man's will, on its.

      So to answer your second question, according to conventional cultural wisdom: no, humans are not "part fo the nature". Because we are human. To suggest otherwise is to overturn millennia of how people have formulated their thoughts and their culture, which is not necessarily a bad or wrong thing to do, just a lot harder than you might think.

      --
      The face of 'evil' is always the face of total need
    4. Re:Contra-dick-tory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      This is an extremely disingenuous argument.
      Really. Read back your own post, and see which is the disingenous one.

      Western philosophy, religion and therefore culture in general have traditionally maintained as one of their most central tenets the dichotomy of nature versus culture - that is, the "human" world versus the "natural" world, with the implicit concept of 'man' as the inheritor and master of 'nature'.

      Artifacts produced by 'man' are therefore products of culture, not nature, and while it may be in the nature of 'man' to create said artifacts, it does not imply a crossing of the nature/culture divide, as humans remain, by definition, on their side of the picture, and nature, ever productive and sumbissive to man's will, on its.
      When they (businesses typically) spew out term "natural", people (consumers) think it means something half-way scientific, not some relativistic cultural blah-blah, which happens to be YOUR very subjective interpretation. And nevermind the people of non-Western culture.

      So to answer your second question, according to conventional cultural wisdom: no, humans are not "part fo the nature". Because we are human. To suggest otherwise is to overturn millennia of how people have formulated their thoughts and their culture, which is not necessarily a bad or wrong thing to do, just a lot harder than you might think.
      You outta join the ID camp.

      It appears you put some thought into cooking up this preposterous and pretentious post, but, again, really, you are accusing my post of being "disingenous"?? Go change your diaper.
    5. Re:Contra-dick-tory by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      No, but I know several Apple fanboys who can, mister Kentucky Fried Garbage :P

      --
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    6. Re:Contra-dick-tory by kfg · · Score: 1

      mister Kentucky Fried Garbage :P

      Hey, your garbage is my free food.

      Perhaps I should make my point a bit more explicitly. I'm actually sympathetic to the OP's point.

      I think, however, the point is more relevant when comparing something like skyscrapers and termite mounds than it is when comparing televisions to precious bodily fluids.

      KFG

    7. Re:Contra-dick-tory by lartful_dodger · · Score: 1

      Hmm, and you're posting this AC? Jolly good. I'm glad for you that you feel you can speak for all non-Western cultures here in this very Western arena of discourse, as well as all people (consumers) whatever that means in this context.

      Seriously, you 'outta' learn to spell and control some basic tenets of syntax, and not make frankly silly ad hominem attacks, and develop a little understanding of something beyond the 'halfway-scientific', oh and not 'spew out term' that you clearly don't understand on anything more than a very basic level, and then I might take the trouble to reply to you again.

      Until then, have fun being 'part fo the nature'.

      --
      The face of 'evil' is always the face of total need
  10. "...there is always soma, delicious soma..." by RyanFenton · · Score: 1

    Painkillers without side-effects?

    Welcome, to a A Brave New World!

    Oh wait, there's already a drug marketed under the name of Soma? Damn!

    Ryan Fenton

    1. Re:"...there is always soma, delicious soma..." by ptbarnett · · Score: 1
      Oh wait, there's already a drug marketed under the name of Soma?

      Wow, I would have never thought a company would be dumb enough to market a drug as "Soma" in the US or UK. Someone in marketing either never read "Brave New World" or forgot about it.

      The book was required reading for me, although I don't remember if it was middle or high school.

  11. The earlier attempt, not so good by sholden · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Heroin, the non-addictive replacement for morphine, worked out so well on the non-addictive side...

  12. Major Fracture Detected by Doppler00 · · Score: 1

    Morphine Administered ...anyone else remember that from Half Life?

    1. Re:Major Fracture Detected by pklinken · · Score: 1, Funny

      well.. i dont remember that conciously, but it made me lol though :)

    2. Re:Major Fracture Detected by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      I had mental imagery of Gordon Freeman's legs when they finally removed the HEV suit. Picture some kind of jellylike mass with floating splinters of bone. We're talking more than six million dollars here.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    3. Re:Major Fracture Detected by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      In the first one, he was in stasis for ~6 years by a guy who can stop time, after the second one his HEV suit wasn't removed.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  13. Impressive for an Undergrad by daftcyborg · · Score: 1

    It is an impressive job that's been done by an undergrad student nonetheless. Not an expert in the area. Not sure how they can prove it is "non-addictive" though, not sure why that's even brought up in the article. Doesn't addiction depend on the release of things like dopamine in the brain?

  14. What do we use for ScuttleMonkey/Roland relief? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Digg?

    1. Re:What do we use for ScuttleMonkey/Roland relief? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Warning: Digg should not be taken internally.

  15. US Anti-Morphine Headline by turgid · · Score: 1

    Despite being banned in the USA, Herion (diamorphine) is used in palliative care here in the UK where addiction is not a problem.

    Morphine is also used, and again, addiction is not a problem, but for different reasons. If the right dose is used, so it goes, the physiological changes in the brain that cause addiction do not happen (mind you, the New Scientist is hardly a reputable source of knowlege).

    So, the war on opiates continues...

    1. Re:US Anti-Morphine Headline by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      uh. hello?

    2. Re:US Anti-Morphine Headline by grammar+fascist · · Score: 1
      Despite being banned in the USA, Herion (diamorphine) is used in palliative care here in the UK where addiction is not a problem.

      Morphine is also used, and again, addiction is not a problem, but for different reasons. If the right dose is used, so it goes, the physiological changes in the brain that cause addiction do not happen (mind you, the New Scientist is hardly a reputable source of knowlege).

      So, the war on opiates continues...

      I'd love it if you had a chat with a nice woman I met in Scotland who transferred her morphine addiction to a street heroin addiction when her prescription ran out. She'd be intrigued by your ideas, and would probably want to subscribe to your newsletter.
      --
      I got my Linux laptop at System76.
    3. Re:US Anti-Morphine Headline by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

      Heroin is the safest opiate for use for pain relief in childbirth as well. It was the first choice in Oz until it was scheduled under pressure from the USA in the late 1960s.

    4. Re:US Anti-Morphine Headline by antispam_ben · · Score: 1

      I'd love it if you had a chat with a nice woman I met in Scotland who transferred her morphine addiction to a street heroin addiction when her prescription ran out. She'd be intrigued by your ideas, and would probably want to subscribe to your newsletter.

      This is anectdotal evidence. Of what, I'm not sure. How many morphine prescriptions resulted in addiction? How many led to people leading more nearly normal lives rather than experiencing debilitating pain with less effective pain killers?

      The decision to use many drugs and medical procedures is made on a cost-benefit analysis, and the decision is sometimes made to go ahead even when the cost is a reasonable chance of death.

      But due to the War On Drugs and the idea that addiction is infinitely worse than death, certain drugs are witheld when comon sense would indicate their use.

      I retract that last sentence. Doctors ARE operating on common sense when they withold drugs that would help the patient: if they write too many prescriptions for "certain drugs" the DEA will show up and ask a lot of questions, and possibly charge the doctor with illegal activity. And clearly the DEA knows better than any doctor how many prescriptions of "certain drugs" the doctor should prescribe, don't they?

      --
      Tag lost or not installed.
    5. Re:US Anti-Morphine Headline by turgid · · Score: 1

      The lesson, here, kids, is never drink and post to slashdot.

    6. Re:US Anti-Morphine Headline by turgid · · Score: 1

      I'd love it if you had a chat with a nice woman I met in Scotland

      Argh! No! Not Scotland!

  16. FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually both morphine and diamorphine (aka heroin) are excellent painkillers. There's no risk of addiction if they're used properly. Another victim of the war on drugs: the uncounted millions who die in unneccessary agony.

    1. Re:FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't observed people being denied opiates when they really needed then, although my first-hand view of this is limited to a military hospital. There were even posters on the wall that reminded doctors and nurses of the policies regarding pain killers. They don't hold back on morphine because they're sadists. They hold back on it because too much can slow the breathing and result in death. In end-of-life conditions though, a dose of morphine sufficient to slow breathing is sometimes given. It's a judgement call based on your advanced directive, and the decision of whoever you've appointed to make decisions for you.

    2. Re:FUD by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      There's no risk of addiction if [morphine or heroin a]re used properly. Another victim of the war on drugs: the uncounted millions who die in unneccessary agony.

      Or go to street vendors for relief - and end up hooked because they can't adequately control the dose or its onset (because the cost is so high they must administer it IV).

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    3. Re:FUD by Nehmo · · Score: 1

      Some countries are more liberal than others toward narcotic use. The War on (the people who use) Drugs isn't so severe in Europe. If you expect pain, maybe move there.

      --
      (||) Nehmo (||)
  17. Natural drug? by winkydink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How is a drug derived from a vine any more/less natural than a drug derived from a flower?

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:Natural drug? by neo8750 · · Score: 1
      How is a drug derived from a vine any more/less natural than a drug derived from a flower?

      You refer to morphine i assume. Well morphine is in no way a natural thing it comes from opium which is natural. Correct me if I am wrong but, morphine it self is synthetic because it needs to be synthesised.

    2. Re:Natural drug? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You are, in fact, wrong. Morphine is produced by being extracted - not synthesized - from opium. It's made by the poppies, and the people only have to purify it. Synthesis is technically possible, and the morphine synthesis was an important milestone in organic chemistry, but that's because of the scientific insights it involved; synthesis is not the normal production process for morphine. You're probably thinking of heroin, which is synthesized using morphine as starting material.

  18. I see addicts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I love how all the low number slashdot users all appear to be addicts/former addicts.

    1. Re:I see addicts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Wait until you've been around slashdot as long as they have and see how well you fare, eh?

    2. Re:I see addicts. by ksheff · · Score: 1

      this place can certainly drive you insane at times.

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    3. Re:I see addicts. by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      So I'm addicted to computers. What's your point?

    4. Re:I see addicts. by Rocky+Mudbutt · · Score: 1

      I'm addicted to oxygen. The withdrawal symptoms are fatal, but interesting if you readminister O2 before termination. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoerotic_asphyxiati on

      --
      Ethics II Axiom 2. "Man thinks." B. Spinoza
  19. no maka sensa by mrspikersworth · · Score: 0

    How can a 'synthetic compound' be a 'natural drug'?

  20. chronic pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you live with a terminally ill person, the idea of addiction quickly becomes asinine. Yet, they still won't prescribe it for addiction reasons. Lo, let this comment get relegated to the depths of un-moderation. And you Slashdot libertarians can wait until your family member has chronic pain - so you can wonder why republicans don't want them addicted. Ooo, I know, blame it on democrats.

    1. Re:chronic pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure what you trying to say but as far as my story goes I have chronic pain in form of rheumatism, and I can tell you that
      there's nothing that relieves the pain as good as cannabis. I'm a von Mises libertarian and my proposal is to legalize every drug so that addiction becomes useless in terms of economics. If the substance is addictive some other company will soon develop a equally good replacement without the addiction.

    2. Re:chronic pain by Harmonious+Botch · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And you Slashdot libertarians can wait until your family member has chronic pain - so you can wonder why republicans don't want them addicted.

      We don't need to wait. We already understand the republicans' failure to protect personal choice. That's one of the reasons that we are libertarians.
      Lighten up; we libertarians are on your side in this fight, even if you are a democrat :)

    3. Re:chronic pain by niktemadur · · Score: 1

      Institutionalized drug hysteria is a disease goes to absurd extremes. Take John Roberts, the guy who was put on the Supreme Court by Bush, then made Chief Justice a month later, with not a day of experience yet.
      One of the cases the Supreme Court heard in its' first days concerned euthanasia, and while the technicalities were explained about how an opiate had to be administered to the individual, so that suffering during the death process would be minimized, Chief Justice Roberts interrupted to ask something along the lines of: "But is it acceptable to administer a controlled and addictive substance in this procedure?" The guy seemed to be concerned that result would be a corpse junkie!
      Roberts had to be gently taken aside by one of his fellow justices and told that in this particular type of case, the glorious War On Drugs was not the issue.

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    4. Re:chronic pain by Jim+Narem · · Score: 1

      I'm a "Slashdot libertarian" and I think heroin should be an Over-The-Counter drug. Buy it. Take it. I don't care. Go whine at the Slashdot Reagan-Youth leftovers, but don't blame the Libertarians.

    5. Re:chronic pain by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >When you live with a terminally ill person, the idea of addiction quickly becomes asinine.

      The formal definition of addiction includes a criterion of consuming more of the substance than is medically justified. For example, it would be stupid to talk about diabetics being "addicted" to insulin. Similarly for pain control in the terminally ill or even in survivable cases like severe burns. My late mother got the morphine she needed.

      Anyone who talks about "addiction" in cases like that or withholds medication is at best a maverick, at worst a dangerous fool.

    6. Re:chronic pain by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

      As I've posted elsewhere, I take strong pain-killers, and have done for quite a long time. When I lived in the US I was shocked at the attitude there. No such thing as over-the-counter codeine. Surely it's better to take 20mg of codiene and 1000mg of paracetamol whilst waiting for your dentist appointment this afternoon than sitting in pain. But when I asked a pharmacist for some low level codiene/paracetamol he threatened to call the police!!! Wierd.

    7. Re:chronic pain by GeffDE · · Score: 1

      My proposal is to have you listen to just one lecture by the economics professor at your local, yokel, community college. Addiction, in terms of economics, is every company's wet dream. Why do you think there is so much contempt for Apple Fanbois? Apple has what everyone wants: a set of 'educated' people with expendable income who need their products. If some substance were to be addictive, some other company will soon develop an equally good replacement with MORE addiction. Because more addiction means more people buying it, and so more money for the company. You should have learned that in Econ 99 (that would be econ for art majors...)

      --
      It has been a nervous year, with people beginning to feel like Christian Scientists with appendicitis.
    8. Re:chronic pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So where are my non-addictive cigarettes?

    9. Re:chronic pain by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      Addiction, in terms of economics, is every company's wet dream... If some substance were to be addictive, some other company will soon develop an equally good replacement with MORE addiction.

      Umm, unless they're forcefully administering the product to people on a regular basis in order to induce physical addiction, I fail to see the problem here. If people choose to become addicted to these substances, so be it. They already do, for god sake! The only different, right now, is that the "companies" are embodied in the underground drug trade, where there's no government oversight regarding quality of drugs, dosage consistency, etc, etc, meaning people are dying needlessly, all thanks to ridiculous puritan ideals and unfounded paranoia.

      Honestly, we're surrounded by addictive substances *now* (the most obvious being alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine), but the vast majority of people aren't junkies. Why? Because, thanks to education, they know better. Will that stop a small (though not insignificant) minority from becoming dependant on these substances? No. But the current situation is, IMHO, infinitely worse.

    10. Re:chronic pain by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      How do you define medically justified, though? Some might say "dull severe pain until it is just barely tolerable", while some might say "eliminate moderate pain."

  21. Medical comments: by olddoc · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am an Anesthesiologist. I give people morhine and fentanyl on a daily basis.
    Morphine is a natural drug, it comes from a plant. Cocaine, digitalis, aspirin and many other drugs are also natural.
    If the new drug is related to morphine I take that to mean it will work on the same receptors in the brain.
    If it does, it will have a similar side effect profile: constipation, nausea, respiratory depression and probably addictive potential.
    To me, this is just a "me too" drug like Tagamet/Zantac/Pepcid that all work the same way on the same receptors.

    Interestingly, there is no profit margin in simple morphine. The cost to the hospital for an ampule that would relieve severe pain is on the order of $1.
    The DEA paperwork is a bigger cost to a hospital!

    The biggest long term problem for people who take morhine (or heroin in the UK or oxycontin or any drug in this class) is constipation.
    Cancer patients don't have to worry about addiction.

    --
    Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    1. Re:Medical comments: by Gyan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If it does, it will have a similar side effect profile: constipation, nausea, respiratory depression and probably addictive potential.

      Not exactly. Peripheral opioid antagonists, like methylnaltrexone, can neutralise effects like constipation without affecting CNS sctivity. In theory, even respiratory depression may be averted since it's a different MOR subtype involved in that autonomic role, compared to the analgesic circuit (although I'm not aware of any products so far).

    2. Re:Medical comments: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I currently take Oxycontin and sometimes Kadian (morphine-in-a-pill) for my herniated disc. My doctors want to put in an artificial disc but I'm not ready for that. I want to exhaust all possibility of strengthening the back. I've known a couple people with herniated discs and they've healed after a long time.

      I'm constantly worried about my pain medication. Will I be addicted to it when the pain is gone? I've been taking pills for a couple years now while I've tried different surgical procedures. My doctor cured the shooting leg pain and numbness but the pain in my back is unimaginable and if I didn't have pain medication I would probably go insane from the pain and off myself.

    3. Re:Medical comments: by olddoc · · Score: 1

      The drug is being examined for analgesia uses and to be similar to morphine.
      I am not aware of any mu opioid receptors that result in the relief of severe pain
      without respiratory depression.
      This is also a very early report. I don't read basic pharmacology journals, but any new compound
      that was promising in animal models would have made it to the major Anesthesiology journals that I read.
      I certainly wish them luck.

      --
      Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    4. Re:Medical comments: by asuffield · · Score: 3, Informative
      Morphine is a natural drug, it comes from a plant.


      Since we haven't yet invented a practical form of transmutation or energy-matter conversion, everything is 'natural', in that it is made from things extracted from plants, animals, or rocks. 'Natural' is an emotive word with no scientific meaning.

      Somewhat more to the point, drugs roughly equivalent to morphine (endorphins) are naturally produced by the body on its own, without any external intervention. You can even get addicted to them, if you can be bothered to engage in the heavy exercise necessary (many serious athletes become mildly addicted, and yes, it's real addiction - they show physical withdrawal symptoms if they stop exercising regularly, just like with any other opiate, and can occasionally require medical treatment to manage this if an injury prevents them from training). In no sense can you call an opiate, or any quantity of an opiate, 'unnatural'. It's a fundamental part of how the human body/mind operates (including everything from chocolate to orgasm).

      People need to find something less pointless to talk about than whether something is 'natural'.
    5. Re:Medical comments: by prichardson · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, why don't cancer patients have to worry about addiction?

      --
      Help I'm a rock.
    6. Re:Medical comments: by olddoc · · Score: 1

      I agree completely.
      I love people who want "natural childbirth".
      I tell them I'll give them cocaine in an epidural and morhine.
      So many people really believe that if it comes out of a plant it is safe and OK, but if a human plays with it it is synthetic or unnatural or unsafe.
      What hogwash!

      --
      Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    7. Re:Medical comments: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Interestingly, there is no profit margin in simple morphine. The cost to the hospital for an ampule that would relieve severe pain is on the order of $1.
      The DEA paperwork is a bigger cost to a hospital!
      Maybe they didn't cover this in your training, but the hospital usually charges patients above actual cost. No, really--it's true. At $50 for that $1 ampule, there's room for profit.
    8. Re:Medical comments: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      why don't cancer patients have to worry about addiction?
      If a cancer patient is in severe pain because of cancer (rather than say a surgical operation), then they are probably terminally ill, or at least they will be in perpetual pain. Addiction is rather moot in such circumstances for obvious reasons.
    9. Re:Medical comments: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not sure that I can tell you, but in people with severe pain they can tolerate massive doses of morphine (the highest dose I saw was 600 mg per day which kept this patient's pain under control but caused no respiratory depression, though I am quite sure that it would be enough to have killed a couple of rock stars!). They still can become dependent and have physical withdrawl if they were to abruptly stop the medicine, but the psychological craving for the drug that is the hallmark of addiction doesn't seem to develop. This generally is the case even in those patients who aren't terminal, but have severe disabling pain. The medicine just acts to "wallpaper" over their pain and allow them to remain productive.

    10. Re:Medical comments: by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

      A sane voice at last!

    11. Re:Medical comments: by benzapp · · Score: 1

      Since we haven't yet invented a practical form of transmutation or energy-matter conversion, everything is 'natural', in that it is made from things extracted from plants, animals, or rocks. 'Natural' is an emotive word with no scientific meaning.

      In the realm of pharmacology and US patent law, it does have a scientific meaning. Natural drugs that come from plants cannot be patented. The entire point of his post is that Morphine is cheap and accessible. No new drug will be able to beat that.

      Somewhat more to the point, drugs roughly equivalent to morphine (endorphins) are naturally produced by the body on its own, without any external intervention.

      This is irrelvant to the discussion at band. Unless you are still quibbling about the meaning of the word "natural". Also, endorphins are very simple peptides. Morphine is actually quite different chemically from endorphins. It just happens to have affinity for certain opioid receptors.

      You can even get addicted to them, if you can be bothered to engage in the heavy exercise necessary (many serious athletes become mildly addicted, and yes, it's real addiction - they show physical withdrawal symptoms if they stop exercising regularly, just like with any other opiate, and can occasionally require medical treatment to manage this if an injury prevents them from training). In no sense can you call an opiate, or any quantity of an opiate, 'unnatural'.

      You are full of shit. You cannot provide a citation to a single medical journal article that even DISCUSSES such a preposterous theory. You clearly have no understanding that there are many different opioid receptors. And your reiteration of the meaning of the word "unnatural" is also completely irrelevant to this discussion. Morphine IS unnatural in that it is not selective to specific receptors, but broadly agonizes several. Duh. Do runners complain of respiratory suppression and constipation? Ahh, no.

      People need to find something less pointless to talk about than whether something is 'natural'.

      No, I think idiots like you need to stop posting on slashot. You haven't posted to contribute any useful information to the discussion. The parent poster was highlighting an important distinction between different kinds of drugs. His use of the word "natural" served a purpose. What have you done? Nothing. Your bullshit post has done nothing to help anyone understand anything.

      --
      I don't read or respond to AC posts
    12. Re:Medical comments: by swb · · Score: 1

      I've always understood that people taking opioids for pain relief may develop a physical dependence, but that it's fairly trivial to taper them off (presuming the medical condition causing the pain has been cured) since they generally haven't developed a psychological addiction -- they basically just get pain relief. I think this is one reason oxycontin became so popular, since its time release formula led to a more consistent level of the drug in the body and fewer up/down variations.

      People who abuse heroin/morphine generally do so for the "rush" the drug presents when it is first ingested (thus the preference for injection). They may get physically dependent on the drug, but they get "hooked" on the rush -- which leads to higher and higher doses, a major risk when dealing with street sources of unknown purity.

      Largely I think, though, that cancer patients are seldom a risk for addiciton because major doses of painkillers aren't a big deal until the cancer has spread, which usually means death.

    13. Re:Medical comments: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The parent poster was highlighting an important distinction between different kinds of drugs. His use of the word "natural" served a purpose. What have you done? Nothing. Your bullshit post has done nothing to help anyone understand anything.

      Advice for trolls-in-training: when opining about what the OP thought, do not do so in a thread where the OP has already posted and indicated that they don't agree with you. It makes it obvious to anybody with half a brain that you're just a troll.

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=194576&cid=159 45847

  22. Relief by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Funny

    Boy, am I glad that tribal Australians will be reimbursed for all the R&D they invested in breeding that vine for thousands of years. That their prior art will prevent some pharmaco from patenting the vine, that the pharmaco lobbyists won't be able to prevent Australians from using the cheap original plant.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Relief by feijai · · Score: 1
      Products aren't patentable.

      Processes are patentable. The drug company's method for producing the drug from the vine is the patentable item. All the aborigines have to do is develop a different process, and they're in the money too.

    2. Re:Relief by ksheff · · Score: 1

      The article mentioned that the chemical created by the vine doesn't have any pain killing properties, so the Aussies won't have to worry about it being patented. The compound developed by BYU is synthetic and the process to create it will be patented.

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    3. Re:Relief by sadler121 · · Score: 1

      "The compound developed by BYU is synthetic and the process to create it will be patented."

      Seeing that BYU is merely a branch of the Church Education System of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon Church) Can they patent it as a religious institution?

    4. Re:Relief by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I hear that a lot. In fact the product is patentable, consistent with common sense. The specific "device" or product is protected by the patent, as well as closely similar ones with no "novelty". Genes are routinely patented, as well. And pharmaco prevention of traditional remedies that could compete with their patented products is increasingly common.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    5. Re:Relief by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      They have to worry, but they have hope that their traditional remedy can't be patented. The Indian government has won protection of traditional medicines from these patents. Synthesizing the identical "active ingredient" in the traditional extract has not been a legitimate way for pharmacos to monopolize the treatments developed by the people they discovered it from.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    6. Re:Relief by mqduck · · Score: 1

      Damn, man. You're already +5 funny, but if I had mod points I'd give you another one. :)

      --
      Property is theft.
    7. Re:Relief by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's funny because maybe it's true ;).

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    8. Re:Relief by mqduck · · Score: 1

      I'm aware. I was complimenting your 1337 parody skillz.

      --
      Property is theft.
    9. Re:Relief by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the compliment. I couldn't resist subclassing Homer Simpson. Maybe it's because I've exhausted your recommended "necessary means", and realized that what the kids really go for is snark.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    10. Re:Relief by ksheff · · Score: 1

      Why not?

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    11. Re:Relief by ksheff · · Score: 1

      If the natural version from the plant doesn't have any pain killing properties, how is it a "traditional remedy"? Especially if it was discovered by a Japanese scientist?

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
  23. Sure, no side effects by wertarbyte · · Score: 0, Redundant

    There once was a medicine developed to replace morphine and opium, having the same reliefing effect while avoiding - and even curing - addiction to those powerful drugs. The product was so successful that it was used for many applications, even for cough suppressants. However, it was later discovered that this marvellous medicine had similar side effects as the drugs it was intended to replace. This once "non-addictive" medicine was called Heroin.

    --
    Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.
    1. Re:Sure, no side effects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, I've heard this at least 4 times now, enough about the goddamn heroin already!

  24. Do editors read? Roland Piquepaill gets a pass? by lax-goalie · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the next to last sentence: "the synthetic compound they created".

    In the last sentence: "this natural drug".

    Ummm, those two phrases are the complete opposite of each other...

    From the F'ing article:

    We've synthesized a mixture of the two mirror-image compounds, the idea being we can take the mirror image of the natural one

    Mirror image of the "natural one". Sounds like a "synthetic compound" to me...

    1. Re:Do editors read? Roland Piquepaill gets a pass? by TheOriginalRevdoc · · Score: 1

      My interpretation of "We've synthesized a mixture of the two mirror-image compounds, the idea being we can take the mirror image of the natural one" is that they have produced the substance in the lab, but the product is racemic - i.e., the molecule exists in two isomers that are mirror images of each other.

      Biological processes tend to produce isomers that have the same symmetry. (Right-handed, I think, but I could be wrong.) Inorganic lab processes produce both. Sometimes, both isomers have the same biological effect, but often, they have different effects. Sounds to me like this substance may fall into the latter category.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enantiomer

    2. Re:Do editors read? Roland Piquepaill gets a pass? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Synthetic compound" and "natural drug" are NOT exclusive statements. Do some research (at least a Wiki search) on "organic chemistry" and "organic synthesis" for more information.

    3. Re:Do editors read? Roland Piquepaill gets a pass? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the significance of whether a drug is 'natural' or synthetic? If it's 'natural', does that mean it's automatically considered good (apparently so, in some circles)?

      Pass the hemlock..

      --
      IBG

    4. Re:Do editors read? Roland Piquepaill gets a pass? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What's the significance of whether a drug is 'natural' or synthetic? If it's 'natural', does that mean it's automatically considered good (apparently so, in some circles)?

      Pass the hemlock..
      One benefit is that, for natural substances, it is much easier to tell if they're good or bad for you, that's why commiting suicide with some sort of natural poison, such as ricin or a death cap, is generally incredibly painful.
  25. More tests by Threni · · Score: 1

    > Still, more tests need to be done before this natural drug can replace morphine.

    Oh, I don't know - some guy just declared the AIDS problem solved thanks to a test on 49 people. Why not tick the `100% effective pain killer` box and move straight on to world peace?

  26. Across the Big Pond by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Informative

    How fortunate that tribal Africans spent thousands of years breeding ibogaine for an opiate withdrawal/detox remedy.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Across the Big Pond by niktemadur · · Score: 1

      Oooh, Ibogaine. I've heard that nobody is even remotely interested in taking this baby recreationally. About how, when a member of the tribe takes Ibogaine, it is part of a long, elaborate and persistent ritual, to confine the individual within a certain mental space, since the effects of the drug can be highly erratic, therefore psychologically hazardous. The tribe member under the effects is administered Ibogaine several times, and is under constant supervision. Ibogaine is NOT a drug for casual use, but a tool to cure behavioral patterns and/or to explore shamanically. Dosification should only be done in a highly stable, tried-and-true environmental setting.

      All in all, I think it's fantastic that substances like Ibogaine are being put to good use in the western world, and considering its' relative obscurity plus awesome, notorious reputation among the drug cognoscenti, it won't be abused and will remain under the radar, so we'll have it around for a long time, in case we need it.

      In contrast, a marvelous substance like Ayahuasca is steadily gaining notoriety, it's only a matter of time before the Eye Of Sauron notices it and yet another front in the war on drugs is unleashed, as with Ecstasy a decade ago. (Yes, I know they're all Class I drugs anyway, catching unwanted attention is another matter).

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    2. Re:Across the Big Pond by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      All the best Yippies, and George McGovern, swear by ibogaine.

      Slashdot is a powerful psychedelic, moderation an entheogen, metamoderation virtual reality. Too bad it's so habit forming, but at least it's free.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    3. Re:Across the Big Pond by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Moderation 0
          50% Redundant
          50% Informative

      No one else mentioned ibogaine in this discussion except in response to me. TrollMods are pretty weird to keep the decades of suppressing ibogaine going on Slashdot. But they're probably just Slashstalkers, addicted to TrollModding me. No cure for that except cold turkey from the Web.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    4. Re:Across the Big Pond by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      You had me at "dosification"!

    5. Re:Across the Big Pond by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that Ibogaine is a Schedule I controlled substance, as is DMT, which is what is in Ayahuasca.

  27. Idea. I am smart ! by zymano · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Why not try Heroin ??

  28. What about royalties for the native Australians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Is this going to become another example of the USA stealing the biological wealth of an indigenous people, like they did in India? This is genetic piracy!

  29. Morphine Relief Without Addiction? by McGiraf · · Score: 0

    "Morphine Relief Without Addiction?"

    That is exactly what they said about heroin when they first discovered it ... they shot themself in the arm ... err ... foot.

  30. Mmmhmmmm by The+Lost+Supertone · · Score: 1

    Mmhmmm... Soma... soooommmmmaaaa....

  31. Obligatory editor joke by Chris+Kamel · · Score: 2, Funny

    the synthetic compound they created and which has a similar molecular structure as morphine. Still, more tests need to be done before this natural drug can replace morphine

    Talk about self contradiction...

    --
    The following statement is true
    The preceding statement is false
  32. A little bit OT by surgicaltubing · · Score: 1

    i thought it was impossible to get "high" on paracetamol but 2 years agoI was snowboarding and I cracked a filling. The pain became so bad that I was bedridden and I was also unable to get anything stronger than paracetamol as there were no doctors until Thursday (this was monday). I know full well the dangers of paracetamol but I was so delerious i just kept munching them and eventually i lost consciousness from either the drugs or the pain. The moral of the story is: paracetamol is really bad. If i can have a non-addictive painkiller then yes please. Oh yeah, God bless the UK NHS, you may be bloated with middle management but you're still great.

    1. Re:A little bit OT by aXis100 · · Score: 1

      You're lucky you didnt die of liver failure.

    2. Re:A little bit OT by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      As the previous poster said, you were lucky you didn't end up needing a liver transplant. Can't you get anything with Codeine in the UK? For reasonable amounts of pain you're much more likely to actually stop it without destroying your liver.

    3. Re:A little bit OT by surgicaltubing · · Score: 1

      Forgot to mention this was in Andorra and I specifically asked for something with codeine as I had the crazy idea of cauterising the nerve. Thankfully I managed to get some broad-spectrum antibiotics and they sorted me out eventually.

  33. synthetic compound != natural drug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    synthetic compound != natural drug

    1. Re:synthetic compound != natural drug by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      It's probably an artifact of the language used in chemistry. A completed synthesis, if it reproduces a natural chemical, or even a different chemical modeled after a natural one, is called a "natural product synthesis."

      In fact, my specific research area is "total synthesis of natural products." I am currently making apoptolidinone, which does not occur naturally, but is related to apoptolidin, which does.

  34. not only that... by Quadraginta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you read TFA instead of the completely misleading summary, you'll note that...

    (1) The BYU chemists don't know if the compound has painkilling properties at all. It's the mirror image of another molecule which is known not to be a painkiller. The mirror image is similar to morphine, so they hope it might have the painkilling properties of morphine. But it's painkilling properties are at this point entirely theoretical.

    (2) They have no clue whatsoever whether, if it has painkilling properties, it is less addictive than morphine. It just as easily be more addictive. All they know is, while it looks like morphine, it isn't exactly morphine, so it will probably have slightly different properties.

    (3) And of course, they have no idea whether the new molecule would have other, less desirable differences from morphine -- like being a deadly poison to the kidneys. Whether the stuff could even be safely taken by humans is still unknown.

    In short, the summary on this article wildly exaggerates its content.

    1. Re:not only that... by Pedrito · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And if you RMFP (read my F-ing post), you'd realize I wasn't addressing the article, but a previous post. You're correct. The article makes it clear they have no idea if this drug will do anything at this point. It could have no pain-killing properties and be terribly physically addictive for all they know.

      That said, there are a variety of morphine-derived drugs that exhibit painkilling properties and the properties that make morphine painkilling are fairly well understood. Drug development isn't quite as much like blindly throwing darts at a dartboard as it once was. What makes a drug active vs. a similar inactive drug, particularly for old drugs like Morphine, is generally pretty well understood and designing drugs that have those properties involves a lot more design than luck. Still, many drugs can have unintended consequences because the human body is extremely complex.

    2. Re:not only that... by Quadraginta · · Score: 1

      And if you RMFP (read my F-ing post)...

      Um, I did. That's why I titled my post "Not only that..." You made very good points. I wasn't arguing with you. Just adding some thoughts your points triggered.

      Designing drugs that have those properties involves a lot more design than luck.

      Eh...I'm going to disagree with you very slightly here. I know people in rational drug design and QSAR, and I'm well aware remarkable strides have been made in the last few decades. But, as you point out yourself, the complexity of the human biochemical system is so awesome that my impression is that producing a truly winning drug still involves at least a 50/50 mix of cleverness and luck (or, equivalently, a 50/50 mix of design and trial-and-error). A bit of evidence would be Vioxx (ouch!), or the fact that people are still discovering interesting and possibly useful side-effects of aspirin, despite its structure being known for a century, and its principal biochemical effect well-studied.

      As an aside, I'd say the truly exciting development is the possibility of understanding on an individual basis the effects and side-effects of drugs, by doing appropriate genetic tests on individuals. Just for example, someone I know just had to cope with breast cancer, and took advantage of the amazing fact that these days you can test the particular genetic sequence of an individual breast cancer and reliably predict who needs chemo and who doesn't. That is a wonderful development, considering how brutal chemo is.

      I can easily foresee a future where physicians prescribe the type and dose of medicines based on their likely benefit to each individual patient, based on their particular genome, with substantially improved health care outcomes. Plus fewer misfires with new drugs going all the way to human trials and then flopping: we'd be able to characterize the individual genetic traits of the participants. Surely it's likely that some patients benefit from any Phase III trial drug -- all we need is to learn to sort out who they are. Then, a drug need not be safe and effective for everyone to make it to market -- it need only be safe and effective for someone. That will probably give people many more options for effective treatment.

      We may even be able to know whether certain habits are bad for you, or harmless, based on one's individual nature. Pretty cool.

    3. Re:not only that... by Evil+Shabazz · · Score: 1

      In short, the summary on this article wildly exaggerates its content.

      What? You mean, on Slashdot?!

      --
      Down with the career politician! SUPPORT TERM LIMITS
    4. Re:not only that... by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      The BYU chemists don't know if the compound has painkilling properties at all.

      Too bad it was developed by a bunch of Mormons. I'd have just taken it and saw if it did anything.

  35. #6 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who wants to make bets on how many more times this will be repeated?

  36. Puhleease: seperate blog for Roland Piquepaille by viking2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would like to suggest that Roland Piquepailles submissions be placed in a seperate blog.

    I read /. to get real news and facts, and see discussions from people with insight.
    Roland Piquepailles submissions are usually vague quasiscience or fiction.

    It seems this last one "Morphine Relief Without Addiction?", is just some graduate students learning to synthsize a compound with no empirical data it is any more useful than sand. I quote: "The *idea* is that we *can* send it to NIH to test to see if it kills pain"

    You should mod this up if you agree or mod away as flamebait/offtopic/troll if you dont agree, but at least mod it.

    1. Re:Puhleease: seperate blog for Roland Piquepaille by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd mod you up if I could

    2. Re:Puhleease: seperate blog for Roland Piquepaille by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You should mod this up if you agree or mod away as flamebait/offtopic/troll if you dont agree, but at least mod it.

      You should go back to digg.

  37. contradictory university PR release by zinc · · Score: 1

    this reads just like the university's press releases i'd read during grad school about the fantastic results of some academic's basic science research. if this were tech-related all of the /. weenies would be whining about how the claims couldn't be true or how there aren't enough details or whatever. and... they'd be right. this is irrelevant unless you're a chemist. it sure won't affect you and me for years and years.

    --
    i rock.
  38. Addiction not a problem for most morphine users by Shannon+Love · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The vast majority of people who must use morphine for medical reasons, even those requiring long term use, don't become morphine "addicts" as we normally use the term. Most users wean themselves off the drug relatively easily when the pain they used the morphine to suppress goes away. Many drugs, with and without neurological effects, are physically addictive in that suddenly stopping the intake of the drug causes illness yet no one speaks of "beta blocker addicts."

    Addiction to psychoactive drugs arises from the psychological instead of the physiological effects of the drugs. New drugs that offer the the same psychological effects as traditional drugs will present most of the same addiction issues.

    1. Re:Addiction not a problem for most morphine users by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      Addiction to psychoactive drugs arises from the psychological instead of the physiological effects of the drugs.

      If that were true, there wouldn't be a physical component to the withdrawl symptoms, which we all know isn't the case.

      I think what you're saying is *partly* true. In order to reach the stage of physical addiction, you need longer term, high (preferably increase) dose usage. Those self-medicating due to an underlying mental (or perhaps even physical) condition are more likely to express such behaviour, and are thus more likely to become physically addicted. Moreover, it may be the case that susceptability to physical addiction varies from person to person thanks to physiological variation.

      Point being, I think it's very misleading to suggest that these drugs do not have the power to cause true, physiological addiction. Do you magically become addicted after the first or tenth dose? Of course not. But the phenomenon does exist, and it is a danger.

    2. Re:Addiction not a problem for most morphine users by Shannon+Love · · Score: 1

      Opiate addiction is 90% psychological and 10% physical. Physical addiction aggravates addiction to psychoactive drugs but does not actually cause the addiction in the first place. Cocaine, Marijuana, LSD, and Esctasy are not physically addictive yet addicts have as difficult time stopping as opiate addicts. New drugs that have the same psychological effects will present the same addiction risk and nearly the same degree of difficult in stopping the drug as opiates.

      My concern is that paying to much attention he physical addiction obscures the major problem. We talk about opiate addiction as if it was a form of demonic possession. We talk as if anyone will become hopelessly addicted if exposed to the drug. The entire War on Drugs is based on this premise. We've warped our entire justice system based on a fallacious concept of addiction. We refuse pain killers to those who suffer from disease or injury from an exaggerated fear they will become addicts. Contrary wise we ignore the risk posed by other drugs because they aren't physically addictive. (I am old enough to remember when Crack was thought to be better than heroin because it wasn't physically addictive.)

  39. Re:Roland Piquepaille can suck my cock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ok!

    -- Roland Piquepaille

  40. Source with Images by nmb3000 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Interesting that neither the summary nor the article links to the page at BYU's NewsNet page. It has a few more details, links to other sources, a video, and pictures related to the research.

    --
    "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
    /)
  41. This compound isn't know to relieve pain... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This compound hasn't even been tested to determine whether it relieves pain yet... this article is way, way preliminary. Its just a neat synthesis so far, not even a candidate drug.

  42. It is premature to make a fuss by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 1

    ...the National Institutes of Health ... will check to see if it does, indeed, have painkilling properties, as [the researchers] suspect.

    So it hasn't even been demonstrated to be effective, yet alone safe, non-addictive and economic.

    If /. ran an article on every promising drug candidate this early in development, we'd probably be getting a dozen a day.

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
  43. Re:why by x2A · · Score: 1

    Depends where you're from... in some places, "sarcasm" is just saying one thing, and then calling it "sarcasm" when somebody corrects you...

    --
    The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
  44. TROLL????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which moron modded parent a troll? If you are that troll-sensitive, GP looks more like a troll than P. At least the parent used a smiley. Somebody catch this in metamod.

    1. Re:TROLL????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be new here. Democrats are a protected species on Slashdot. Fortunately, the editors are scrupulously impartial on political issues, so it never becomes a big problem.

  45. Ok, Explain This One To Me by Hexxon · · Score: 0

    I didn't RTFA but in the description it says its a SYNTHETIC drug and at the end it says its a NATURAL drug...... Last time I checked most of our drugs are derived from opium, a naturaly occuring substance (from the poppy seed), so what is so much more "natural" about this?

    1. Re:Ok, Explain This One To Me by dsmall · · Score: 2, Informative

      (1) And here in all the "Heroin was invented to ... " theories and notes above in this thread, has been __lost__ the fact that Heroin, (tm), is a trademark of Bayer. Heroin (tm) was a cough syrup for small children originally marketed in the late 1800's. It was probably quite effective in the same way that, let's say, codeine in a cough syrup is effective. I am not a doctor but I can guess it was an expectorant.

              Wikipedia -almost- has this right but is not correct.

              If pressed I can come up with a .JPG of some Heroin (tm) bottles from Bayer.

              That is really where it came from and that's the deal.

            (Reference Book:
                "Flowers In The Blood: The story of opium" by Dean Latimer. ISBN: 0531098591 )

            (2) The British use heroin in terminal cancer patients on the practical idea of why worry about addiction?

            Having really severely fractured my ankle eight years ago, I too can tell you that some opiates worked and some didn't, and "it's a funny old world" as to which ones work and which ones don't. It is certainly not the ol' "compared to morphine" scale I see written up in medical literature.

            Hence I tend to believe the people who say "Well, I saw weird results" and I tend to shy away from the people who say "Well, things should always be this way because the theory says so!". It's almost ideology and idealists.

            Politics re: George Bush don't even enter into this in my opinion, the drug wars have been raging in Democratic and Republican Administrations as far back as I remember, and I remember Lyndon Baines Johnson. Sorry, folks. I know it's a lot of fun to blame everything on George right now, but this one ... I just can't see it.

            I hope this clears some things up. I think you will find this information to be true as you search it out.

            -- thanks,

            David Small

      p.s. This information is true to the best of my knowledge as I write this and represents my personal opinion.

    2. Re:Ok, Explain This One To Me by murderlegendre · · Score: 1

      Cough syrups contain opiates for their anti-spasmodic effects - they suppress the coughing reflex.

      --
      There's a Starman, waiting in the sky / He'd like to come and meet us, but he hasn't got the time.
  46. Distinction between "addiction" and "dependance" by soren42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The submission, as well as TFA, refer to this compound's potential for pain relief without the "addictive" properties of morphine. The article does not, however, discuss the differences between the psychological condition of "addiction" versus the physical condition of "dependance". Any drug with the ability to relieve pain, cause sedation, or change neurotranmitter levels are potentially addictive. Hopefully this new drug does not create the physical syndrome of dependance created by older, more traditional, opiates.

    That said, such a drug is already on the market, Tramadol. Tramadol delivers on it's promise of pain relief without dependance, however, it does not have the potency. Tramadol only exhibits about 10% of the analgesic effect of morphine.

    If this new drug offers relief from moderate to severe pain without the physical issues caused by opiate agonists, it would be a welcome breakthrough. Many chronic pain sufferers (myself included) spend their lives dependant on medications that cause awful side effects if abruptly discontinued. A pain reliever that does not create this problem would certainly be useful in treating legitimate pain.

    But, I suspect the title of this posting and TFA itself, are somewhat misleading - there is nothing that can alleviate the psychological problem of addiction in those seeking to abuse medications.

    --

    "Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things."
  47. this is easier to understand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ..once you understand that the highest levels of government and finance are in the "illegal" drugs business. They make way too much money and can garner outrageous amounts of socio/political control by running those businesses and by keeping a huge variety of drugs "illegal". They profit immensely more by forcing people into the underground.Tthey make money legitimately by the bucketful with "legal" drugs, then they just plain clean up on the illegal side. It is the mother of all cash cows and it has lead directly to the police state they so much love and enjoy. Double plus good for crooked globalist "government", or should I say "rule by terror".

  48. Actually, Most People Don't Become Addicted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is a small fraction of the population that doesn't get hooked on morphine and its derivatives.

    This is misleading. Actually, the vast majority of individuals who use opioids do not develop addiction. Everyone develops physical dependence and it's important to understand the difference. While physical dependence requires that long term opiate users taper thier dose of a long period of time, addiction (psychological dependence) occurs in only a few percent of opiate users.

    Opiate addiction is similar to alcoholism. The vast majority of alcohol users will never experience addiction disorder.

    For two years I took 60mg of time release morphine (Avinza) for fibromyalgia. Personally, it was much more difficult to quit drinking coffee than it was to taper off morphine (using oxycodone to taper).

    1. Re:Actually, Most People Don't Become Addicted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh bullshit earlier in my life I was quite the druggie, and flirted with heroine. Quickly I got to the point where I would wnoder if I was coming down with the flu after getting high, these symptoms would last for about a week; until I finally made the connection and quit. Recently I got injured severly and Morpine was used for pain control, and by pain control I mean I was given enough morphine for the respiratory depression was quite pronounce and the pain was still there then after that Vicoden the result was nothing, no physical withdrawl type of symptoms at all. The reason is not that the vast majority of opiate users don't become addicted but the vast majority of opiate users are in pain and not self-medicating. Taking opiates for reasons other than control of real pain often leads to addiction and the worst is taking opiates for reduced pain tollerance due to depression and these are the people who tend to self-medicate.

      All the recent reasearch I've seen lately also show that the pain-controlling properties of opiates are over rated, in double-blind experiments appropriate doses of tylenol or motrin consistantly control pain as effectively as normaly prescribed doses of opiate based pain medications. I expect that if somebody made a cocktail of tylenol, motrin and benadryl and told everybody they could only take it for a month so they wouldn't get hooked, people would say it was the best pain controller they every took!

    2. Re:Actually, Most People Don't Become Addicted by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      I expect that if somebody made a cocktail of tylenol, motrin and benadryl and told everybody they could only take it for a month so they wouldn't get hooked, people would say it was the best pain controller they every took!



      And they'll also shoot their kidneys and livers straight to hell.

  49. Morphine "Relief" Without Addiction? by mqduck · · Score: 1

    Yes please.

    --
    Property is theft.
  50. Morphine does indeed stop pain! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As somebody who has taken morphine (Avinza 60mg) long term (two years) for fibromyalgia pain, I can attest it most certainly does control pain. The "high" associated with opioid medications can, additionally, allow you to dissociate yourself from the pain.

    In the chronic use of morphine for pain control, side effects such as constipation, sleepiness, and the "high" usually subside after a matter of days. The analgesia remains. If it actually interfered to the point that patients just didn't care about the pain, it would likely be difficult to drive a car, go to work, etc. This is not the case. There are many many people that use opioid medications for pain control any you wouldn't even know by looking at them. Over time, there are no more psychic side effects than there are with taking an Advil. It just controls the pain.

  51. Agonist/Antagonist... by msimm · · Score: 1

    Obviously I've been out of the loop for a while, but what happened with the mixed agonist/antagonist compounds that were supposed to essentially eliminate dose escalation (read: abuse, a major problem with pain management). I always thought that it (at least in theory) sounded like an interesting solution, with potential applications beyond pain medication (would MDMA be a viable treatment for depression if escalation and the euphoric 'high' was taken out of the equation?).

    I was also wondering about novel alkaloid 7-hydroxymitragynine which was also purported to have opioid like effects with a somewhat different dependency profile, but it looks like I found my answer.

    --
    Quack, quack.
    1. Re:Agonist/Antagonist... by user9918277462 · · Score: 1

      Agonist/antagonist drugs are fairly widely used, the ones I'm aware of (buprenorphine primarily, but butorphanol and nalbuphine may also apply here) retain a certain quantity of abuse potential. These drugs are still opioid agonists and show dependency traits accordingly, the main reason to use something like buprenorphine is that users (due to their mixed antagonist effect) may experience reduced effects when using pure mu agonists concurrently. Especially with the buprenorphine formulations that contain naloxone (a heroin addict is being treated with Subutex, he/she relapses and injects heroin but experiences no euphoric effect). When used alone in non-dependent patients the effects mirror the classic opioids pretty closely.

    2. Re:Agonist/Antagonist... by msimm · · Score: 1

      Thank you. Thats a pretty interesting response. I'm familiar with Buprenorphine treatment but I must confess only in passing (psychopharmacology is an interest, and had thing worked out differently probably would have been my focus, but systems administration and related projects take the majority of my time).

      --
      Quack, quack.
  52. So much misinformation by Cyborg+Ninja · · Score: 1

    As a chronic disease and pain sufferer, I've tried many different pain meds - morphine, oxycodone, hydrocodone, Demerol, Dilaudid, so I can confidently say that much of this anti-opioid mentality on this board and in American society in general is unwarranted. And I know the vast majority of people out there, especially on generic medical websites like Mayo's or whatever, and people who don't use narcotics, will disagree with me. But once you talk to an addict or recovering addict, you might find this strikingly similar. So bear that in mind before reading further. Larger doses don't put you more at risk for addiction, and the analgesic effect is not addictive, and there is no magical process that causes addiction. If you're taking it recreationally, you just want the euphoria and you want to escape reality. Like another user said, he didn't feel pain relief from morphine, he just didn't care anymore. Though honestly a strong enough dose will get rid of a lot of pain, it won't get rid of it all. So therein lies the reason why some people become addicts and others don't - you've either come to terms that you want to live in reality or you want to live in your own private world where nothing else matters except yourself, and opioids/opiates help take away displeasing thoughts and replace them with euphoria. It gives you a sense of security. You develop a craving for it but it doesn't have to take over your life and that craving wanes as you get on with your normal life. I also read a few instances here where people mixed up the definitions for addiction, tolerance, and dependence. If you continually take an opioid, you will develop a tolerance and will have to take larger amounts of the same drug to obtain the same amount of pain relief. This is why it is wrong to look down upon large doses of opioids. If you continue even further you will likely develop a dependence and if you stop suddenly, you will go through withdrawal. Addiction is psychological and not tied to how long you take a drug. Neither is it tied to how much you take. You still have the power to stop it from controlling you.

    1. Re:So much misinformation by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      Addiction is psychological and not tied to how long you take a drug.

      Pretty much any physician/biochemist will disagree with you. Receptor downregulation is very much not psychological.

      If you think you can resist actual physical addiction by sheer willpower, then I have good news for you: You're not really physically addicted yet.

    2. Re:So much misinformation by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      Addiction is psychological and not tied to how long you take a drug.

      Sorry, but pretty much any physician/biochemist/physiology textbook will disagree with you. Receptor downregulation is very much not a psychological effect.

      If you think you have resisted actual physical addiction by sheer willpower, then I have good news for you: You weren't physically addicted yet.

    3. Re:So much misinformation by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

      No, you are wrong. Receptor downregulation is the mechanism of dependency, not of addiction. Addiction is drug seeking behaviour, where your existance starts to revolve around the drug. Dependency is the simple fact that eventually your body stops making endorphines, and so when you stop taking the meds you get sick for a while.

      Note that I base this distinction on about 20 years of taking opiates for chronic pain. I started with Nembudiene (a mix of codiene and barbiturates, quite rightly taken off the market), then went to 50mg codiene pills, then tramal, then ms-contin (morphine), and now oxycontin. Sometimes I wonder if I should have had the amputation when it was offered as an option.

      I am most assuredly dependent on painkillers, as I get quite ill, with all sorts of aches and pains if I stop taking them. But when I have a nerve block working (marcain direct into c5-c7, as well as into the shoulder and behind the scapular - it's about 150-200ml of 5% solution each session, in many many injections) I only remember to take my pills when the withdrawal hits me, hence I'm not addicted. The distinction is important - I'm in control of the pain killers, and through them I gain some control of my pain. If I was an addict then I'd be taking them faster than prescribed, larger quantities than required, and would be planning my days around dosing and obtaining more oxy/morphine, instead of planning my days around my wife, kids and hobbies. I have Endone for breakthrough pain, and each box of 20 lasts me about 4 months. An addict would get through a box in a day or two.

    4. Re:So much misinformation by Cyborg+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Thank you for correcting him on mixing up addiction and dependency. Though I have to say that still, the amount someone uses and how often doesn't always mean whether they're addicted or not. The best way to judge is like you said - you plan your day around your family and they plan their day around their next hit. But it's hard for a doctor to know where your priorities lie.

  53. War on Drugs or War on Sufferers? by beadfulthings · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Someone I cared about died of cancer, and I've never been able to figure out what the big deal would be about providing heroin (or whatever it took) to people who are not expected to live in any case and whose last days are, quite frankly, very bad. Why do we have to worry about addicting them to drugs when their days are numbered? My understanding is that in the UK, and other places, a "cocktail" of drugs is administered that can include heroin and that provides some comfort to people in those final days.

    In my own experience, the approach to administering opiates and various other "strong" drugs in hosptals here in the U.S. has changed over the past ten or twelve years. I had a rather painful illness and surgery about a dozen years ago and found myself pleading with assorted nurses for pain relief. The post-operative interval was spent in a haze of incoherent pain. Two years ago I had another illness and hospitalization, and they hooked me up to a pump which allowed me to administer the drugs to myself as I felt I needed them. My recovery was much more rapid, I was up and moving much sooner, and I regained strength and normality much faster. I also didn't require anything for pain after I was released from the hospital.

    Our "war on drugs" seems to me to be full of misplaced zealotry. I guess ill and dying people are stationary targets, easier to control than the flood of illegal stuff that sometimes threatens to overwhelm us.

    --
    "Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
    1. Re:War on Drugs or War on Sufferers? by The+Darkness · · Score: 1

      Our "war on drugs" seems to me to be full of misplaced zealotry.

      A lot of that probably has to do with the two minutes hate during the focus on the War On Drugs. We don't hear much now that they have a different enemy to focus on that people aren't sick of hearing about.. yet.

      "We've always been at War(tm) with the terrorists.."

      --
      There are two kinds of people: 1) those that need closure
    2. Re:War on Drugs or War on Sufferers? by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1
      Yeah, it has definitely changed. After my wife gave birth, the nurses were giving her percocets like they were candy and sent her home with a bottle of them.

      I think that in certain medical fields, there is a recognition that they are going to prescribe a lot of pain medication. Really, it's more important to go after the ophthalmologist writing Oxy scripts for people he's never treated.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  54. Side effects by plopez · · Score: 1

    You may be overcome with the urge purchase a bicyle and a dark suit and knock on complete strangers' doors. :)

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  55. All-natural. by sudog · · Score: 1

    Finally, a substitute. I'm tired of worrying about whether man-made and therefore harsh and addictive chemicals like morphine are going to turn me into an addict. Bring on nature's own!

  56. Morphine is not necessarily addictive by john.r.strohm · · Score: 1

    Actually, morphine is not addictive, IF the dosage is matched to the pain relief requirement.

    A friend of mine, a nurse, was trained in hospice protocol. When another friend was hospitalized for near-terminal cancer, and placed on IV morphine, I asked him about it. My concern was that the hospital was running large doses, basically not worrying about addiction. He explained to me that it was not addictive, if the patient really needed it for pain control.

    Some years later, I got to confirm this for myself. I've had both hips replaced, and the initial pain control was with intravenous morphine. Switching off of it to pain pills, then tapering the pain pills, was not a problem.

  57. When genuine physical pain is involved by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    >even (especially) by self-administration

    While recovering from the surgery that bought her a couple of extra years of life, my mother had a patient-controlled Demerol pump. The fascinating thing about those is not that the patients get (duh) better pain control but that their total narcotic consumption is actually lower than when the medical people decide how and when to dose.

    1. Re:When genuine physical pain is involved by budgenator · · Score: 1

      First it's a lot easier and takes less mediction to keep a minor amount of pain from beocoming a major amount than it is to turn a major amount of pain into a minor amount, secondly being IV delivered, pain control is extremely quick unlike an oral based med that takes 15-30 minutes to kick in so people are less likely to dose prophylacticaly in anticipation of expected painand lastly the computer in the pump keeps the patient from going over a prescribed limit. So the patient is only self-administering within strict limits.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  58. MOD PARENT UP TROLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    n/t

  59. Maybe you can answer a question for me... by pathological+liar · · Score: 1

    This isn't looking for any medical advice, just satisfying my curiosity.

    I also want to preface this by saying that I've never abused painkillers, I've only ever used them once before, briefly, after wisdom teeth extraction, and that was only Tylenol 3, hardly anything serious.

    I had shoulder surgery a couple months back, sewing my rotator cuff back on. I remember from their little pre-surgery pep talk the nurses saying something along the lines of ... you're going to be really out of it tonight, so make sure someone can find you some food and generally supervise you, you won't remember a thing. When I came to in the recovery room, a nurse there gave me a couple morphine injections. I was far too out of it to remember dosage, I just remember that she did it many, many times. Suffice it to say, I was feeling pretty mellow. Went home, made myself some food, watched The Usual Suspects. Mental state was entirely clear, no problems at all, I remember everything. There was no numbness or anything, I was pleasantly surprised. It felt just like normal.

    Next morning I wake up, and Jesus Christ it hurts. Luckily the hospital had seen fit to give me a Dilaudid prescription... I seem to recall they were the generic 2mg pills, I imagine they weren't 4mg given what happened next.

    I took one, and waited.

    Nothing.

    Took another, nothing. Took two more, nothing.

    I've heard that morphine isn't generally given orally because it's metabolized before it has a chance to do anything. I gather that's less of a problem with the more potent opiates, but I would think that 8mg of hydromorphone would be enough to feel something. I've also read that there are people who fast-metabolize morphine, but I would think that would have meant I wouldn't have felt any effect from the morphine either.

    So I guess my question is... er... how? why? what? What could make that happen, and would it apply to all opiates, or only those that are similar to morphine?

  60. I'm impressed. by Ivan+Matveitch · · Score: 0

    That must be one smart plant.

  61. Know your dosage, it's elementary - elementary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Chemists at BYU are playing with morphine-like drugs?

    TOO many jokes!

    "No elder Bob, I NEVER inhaled". They're on a mission to replace morphine.

    Oh, I'm going to burn for that.

  62. About BYU Chemistry by kingbyu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I used to the the webmaster for the BYU Chemistry Department. I just had a few thoughts. First, you really should read the official press release from BYU about this if you want more information or if you want high resolution photos. One of the things that makes this particular story more interesting than others I've dealt with is that the primary researcher is an undergraduate student. I'm told that it is fairly uncommon for undergraduates to be involved so deeply with this type of research. Oh, and by the way, the BYU Chemistry Department is a big supporter of open source software.

  63. Not really right. by Devv · · Score: 1

    The idea that addiction in the case of chronical pain would not be a problem for more than one reason. The chronical pain can disappear. Then you're "just" addicted to morphine. Great! An addiction will probably lead you to want more of a drug and have larger doses. See how smokers just "letting it loose" smoke many packs a day?

    --
    +1 Agree -1 Disagree
  64. fts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I skipped most of the comments just to write this.
    There is a BIG difference between so called "addiction" and dependance. I take morphine 60mg daily for rhumatoid arthritis and will for the rest of my life...which being 22 will hopefully be a long time. People that take opiates for pain management do not get the euphoric feelings outside when a dose increases. Yes my body is physically dependant on it now, but I have no mental craving to take it. It's the euphoria that "addicts" crave. It's like that with any other substance that causes euphoria. Addiction is what happens when people are irresponsibe and can not control their habits.
    There should be no argument over opiates being bad. Used properly and responsibly they allow millions of Americans to work and enjoy a quality of life that someone with out a life long condition does.
    Get over the drug monger propaganda. Alchohol is much worse then ANY drug available.

  65. Interesting BUT by ajs318 · · Score: 1

    I had always thought the addicting property of opiates was integral with the pain-relieving property. As I understand it it, it works something like this:

    Morphine {and that includes derivatives such as heroin} basically binds to the same receptors as endorphins, the body's natural pain-relievers {and feelgood chemicals: a dose of endorphins is your body's usual reward for behaviour deemed to be of evolutionary benefit}. Your body produces extra endorphins in times of trauma; but there is usually some level of endorphins in your system, keeping you from feeling the ends of your bones scraping against one another or the pressure of the blood in your arteries. Some people -- especially kids -- deliberately inflict pain on themselves to crank up their endorphin production.

    Introducing artificial substances interferes with the body's self-regulatory systems, leading to less endorphin production. Therefore, when you come down off morphine / heroin / methadone, your background endorphin level is lower than it should be -- and as a consequence, you begin to feel the sensations of your body working normally -- which would normally be masked by endorphins -- as pain. Your joints are painful, the movement of food through your digestive system {which has just started up again} is painful, your blood flow is painful, the increasing pressure in your bladder is painful.

    Most people can't wait long enough for their endorphin production to get back to normal levels, and instead take another dose just to get rid of the pain of existence. This, of course, is liable to undo the work of restarting endorphin production -- and that is why morphine is addictive.

    So how does this new stuff work? If it's got a similar enough structure to morphine that it binds to endorphin receptors, then surely it will slow or block endorphin production just as much as any other flavour of junk? The only way I can see it possibly working is if its pain-relieving property wears off at exactly the same rate that the body naturally begins producing endorphins from scratch. But isn't that a person-to-person variable?

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    1. Re:Interesting BUT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a good description of dependance.
      Addiction doesn't exist.
      mental dependance for the euphoria that comes with taking above the required dose that a pain patient needs is what people crave.

  66. Shipman Effect by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 2, Informative

    Heroin is legal for prescription here in the UK, as it's an astoundingly effective treatment for pain. But doctors are less likely to prescribe it now since the conviction of Harold Shipman, a general practitioner who murdered over 200 victims with overdoses of opiates. Doses which are technically considered harmful are commonly prescribed in cases where the reduction in lifespan is less significant than the reduction in suffering. This practice has reduced somewhat as doctors are understandably keen not to be accused of murder.

    While I think this if faulty thinking, at least it's better than a religious reason... that's right up there with Jehova's Witnesses refusing blood transfusions.

  67. Re:Distinction between "addiction" and "dependance by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

    Tramadol does cause dependence, but it does so very very slowly. I took tramal (400mg/day) for about 4 years. During one of my periodic "holidays" when the nerve blocks were working I'd stop taking tramal to see where my dependence was. For two nights I wouldn't sleep, and I'd have restless legs.

    Last Friday I got some nerve blocks, and took a break from my oxycontin. The symptoms of withdrawal are essentially the same, except more intense. I'm taking 20mg of oxy tonight so I'll sleep, and I'll be back to my 40s by thursday. but the break is good, as I'll have had the chance to pooh properly by then. Then it's another 6 weeks until my next nerve blocks.

    Note that I'm talking about dependence here, btw. You are of course exactly right about the difference between dependency and addiction. Addiction is a behaviour.

    Note that Tramal has it's own risks btw, not the least being seretonin syndrome and seizures. I developed seretonin syndrome due to a clueless doctor suggesting I take 600mg a day. I nearly died - it was terribly scary, and I've had low level chest pains ever since.

  68. MOD PARENT UP! by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

    Mod them up - this person is a real expert as they speak from experience.

  69. It's not very addictive when used to relieve pain! by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1
    One should distinguish between therapeutic uses and abusive doses.

    Millions of people get theraputic doses every year and don't get addicted-- reason being they associate morphine with PAIN and bad times, not fun times.

    So the basic premise behind this research seems a bit misguided.

  70. Addicting by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

    Substances are addicting, people are addictive.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  71. Mirror image = enantiomer. Natural's a fuzzy word. by ianscot · · Score: 1

    "Natural" is hard to pin down. This drug would be an enantiomer (Enantiomer: (stereo)isomers that are mirror images of each other) of the molecule occuring naturally in the plant -- but what supernatural process happens in the lab, again?

    Same sort of thing: l-dopa is a psychoactive drug. Its mirror image, d-dopa, isn't. Same composition and number of atoms, differently-shaped molecule -- they're isomers, and the mirror images are enantiomers of each other. The "l-" version fits a receptor in the brain, the d- version doesn't.

    --
    "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
  72. What about Wall Street? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh wait, that's not a company...

  73. Natural? by tthomas48 · · Score: 1

    "Still, more tests need to be done before this natural drug can replace morphine."

    Morphine is a natural drug. "Natural" appears to be the new way to sell ice to eskimos.

  74. Morphine and Heroine addiction are now curable by MythoBeast · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, I'm not going to spout religion or philosophy at you, nor am I going to try to sell you something. What I'm going to describe is strongly backed up by scientific evidence, although it's heavily resisted by those who would normally be responsible for telling you about it because it would largely put them out of business.

    Opiates in general work because they are similar to endorphins. Endorphins are a chemical in our system that provides a pleasurable sensation when we're doing something that is contrary to energy efficiency, and yet is beneficial to either individual or genetic survival. Exercise, sex, and "thrilling" activities are the primary examples of this, being called "runner's high" "afterglow" for the first two.

    Any time we perform a behavior and it results in us having opioids in our system (endorpin, morphine, whatever), the neural links that were recently fired get stronger -- take less effort to fire. This isn't just a matter of "hey, that felt good, I think I'll do it again", it's a matter of reinforcing the neural linkage that recently occured, and this makes us consider those paths to be more favorable when examining our options in the future. This results in opioid addiction, and is also largely responsible for alcoholism. Alcoholics are mostly people whose system produces an abundance of endorphins.

    If you don't have a medical background the cure may seem a little anti-intuitive, but medical experts that I describe it to generally nod their head and say "yea, that makes sense". When we perform a behavior and get flushed with opioids, the connections get stronger. When we perform a behavor and DON'T get flushed with opioids, the connections get weaker, returning to their normal state. What this means about a cure is against a lot of people's grain. First, you take something that blocks your opioid uptake. Endorphin antagonists are commonly sold under the names of ReVia, naltrexone, noloxone and nalphemene. They're generally used to ease opiate withdrawl symptoms and to treat alcoholism. Then you feed your addiction.

    In case you missed it, I'll say it again. If you perform the behavior (smoking opium, shooting up heroin, get drunk, whatever) and your body doesn't get the opioid flush, then your body unlearns the addiction. For alcoholism, most patients regain the upper hand on their urges after two or three weeks, and can drink socially without fear of overdrinking or going on a binge after about three months. For this to occur, however, the person MUST perform their addictive behavior, and it works best if they perform their habits when and where they normally do.

    There is a lot of information about this. If you're interested, the best place to start is probably the Wikipedia entry on the Sinclair Method.

    --
    Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
  75. my auto accident by peter303 · · Score: 1

    I used a morphine derivative for eight days after an auto-accident and did not become addicted. In fact, I wanted off, because it made me too sleepy.

    1. Re:my auto accident by Shannon+Love · · Score: 1

      Your experience mirrors that of most who use morphine for medical reasons. I have some chronic pain but I don't take opiates for it because they leave me unable to think and work which leads to boredom which I find worse than the pain. Most people respond that way.

      Only people who suffer psychological pain, those for whom day-to-day existence feels extremely emotionally painfully, risk addiction. For them, the reduced mental state caused by the drug is a feature not bug. For the rest of us it is a major annoyance.

  76. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    I agree with what you said.

    However, this doesn't seem right to me:

    "It would have been nice if having a president who's a former alcoholic could have led to some honest dialog..."

    George W. Bush is not a former alcoholic. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. His behavior is exactly what can be expected from an alcoholic: He is dishonest, violent (Iraq war), avoids being analytical, and is often disrespectful and anti-social (as in calling Russian President Vladimir Putin "Pooty-poot").

  77. Re:Distinction between "addiction" and "dependance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tramadol based on my recreational experience can be a very effective drug. It should be noted however that I have never used doses in excess of 100mg. I also use many nootropic (racetam) related drugs that are effective at preventing seizures. In fact some studies suggest that racetam drugs can prevent narcotic addiction. It's certainly more week than other narcotics (if you can even call it a narcotic) suggesting the link between euforia and effectivness. It's OCT in many countries.

  78. Re:Distinction between "addiction" and "dependance by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

    Tramadol binds to the mu and kappa opioid receptors, so it's definately a narcotic. It is a racemic mixture, and the non-analgesic stereoisomer is an anti-depressant, which is why it can cause serotonin syndrome. The seizures from tramadol are almost certain if you take imodium with it - that might give you a clue as to how that side effect works.