iPods at War

phaedo00 writes "Ars Technica has put together an outstanding piece of journalism about the use of personal technology in America's military and how these devices along with blatant piracy is causing new problems in the face of war: "While soldiers once deployed with little more than a backpack and a rifle, today's crop of infantry troops pack along MP3 players, digital cameras, DVD players, video games, movie collections, and computers of their own. The personal electronics have made modern American warfare the most comfortable it has ever been, but they've also brought a new set of problems onto the battlefield.""

Comments

Unfounded Criticism

[eldavojohn]

I'm all for the criticism of the United States military. Or even the government. But it really angries up my blood when someone (who's probably never been in a war) criticizes a soldier who's trying to enjoy what may be the last months of his or her life.

I haven't heard any anecdotal stories about "so and so would still be alive if he hadn't been listening to his iPod." Or people's personal devices interfering with a mission. I think the number one weapon against the United States military is the IED (Improvised Explosive Devices). And these things blow up without warning. If you're super alert or playing a DS Lite in your vehicle, it's not going to make a difference when one of those things go off.

The loss of USB drives with sensitive data happens here at home, is it a surprise it happens at war?

Furthermore, if a soldier wants to play Counter Strike during his or her off-time in his or her tent, why not? If there's a surprise attack, there's not going to be much difference whether they were playing football, reading a book or playing counter strike. Human beings are distracted naturally and this is necessary, you can't ask someone to concentrate on war 100% of the time.

Our troops aren't just fighting for Democracy, they're also fighting for stable economies & developed infrastructures. I don't think it looks bad if they have gadgets and bells and whistles along with them while they're at war. These are some of the things they're fighting for them and their children to keep.

I would speculate that if you took away these devices that reminded them of home and society, their performance and morale would probably drop. I believe the USO show was designed to distract soldiers from the horrors of the war they fought, let them have an iPod if it does just that even better.

Ars Technica has put together an outstanding piece of journalism about the use of personal technology in America's military...

"Outstanding"?! It's an interesting piece but I'd hardly call it 'outstanding' or even credible journalism. Just an interesting thing to consider.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[mobby_6kl]

So, what is this about again? You, as a subscriber, obviously had a head start on the article, but I'm not sure you actually read it. Where does it (the article) criticize the soldiers? It does mention a few people who do mention a few downsides to the whole gadget situation, but that's about it. Otherwise it simply describes the situation in the Iraq/Afghanistan bases.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[Anonymous Coward]

The article states a few times that certain people aren't blaiming the soldiers. But if you read the article, it seems a lot of people are saying the soldiers shouldn't be enjoying themselves.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[SEAL]

Soldiers are going to entertain themselves one way or another. Everyone needs an escape for at least a little while when they are in such a stressful environment. Let them play their video games. If there's an attack on the base, guys who were playing some games will be much more alert than if they were smoking weed or drinking heavily.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[lawpoop]

Before I got mugged ;)

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[IAmTheDave]

GP wasn't out of line - but neither was ARS. ARS is basically reporting that "piracy" which is touted as a crime worse than murder these days by the RIAA/MPAA is actually one of the few comforts that soldiers putting their lives on the line for us (for who knows what, but still, for us) have - sometimes in their last minutes of their lives.

ARS has always been a pretty heavy critic of the RIAA/MPAA and their anti-piracy rants (they recently ran an article about how the RIAA is moving on from online piracy to "playground piracy" - kids sharing their CDs with eachother - as the number one threat to the industry) and I believe this particular article is showing that if every copyright law paid for by the RIAA were followed, the soldiers may have a modicum less of the comforts of home to enjoy while on the front lines.

For me, a little piracy for our men and women in uniform is just fine, and any person attempting to crack down on a soldier for playing their IPOD over the loudspeaker for the enjoyment of their fellow soldiers as an illegal peformance under US copyright law is a traitor to this country and the men and women defending it.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[x2A]

"Letting soldiers share mp3 files amongs themselves and purchasing bootleg DVD's"

You're forgetting one thing...

Copying music and movies FUNDS TERRORISM!!! Therefore anyone who does it is the enemy, and shouldn't be allowed into the military!

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[SEAL]

Not that I usually care about how a post is moderated - hell mod me Flamebait I don't care. But if you're going to mod me redundant, try choosing a post that actually is?

Give me a break - I read the comments and no one else mentioned soldiers abusing drugs, which was a definite problem in Vietnam. Still an issue? Sure. But it's less of one now, because the soldiers have other outlets for their stress.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[x2A]

"I don't think someone has a right to criticize the military unless they've been a part of it"

That's absolute crap. Intelligent humans have this ability called "conjecture", that allows them to make informed judgements about things based on their own, different experiences. Now, maybe your experiences will be different enough to mean that judgements can be made poorly, but that's not always the case, there are 'universals' that people can discover by themselves without having to experience the thing ("I'm not gonna jump in that fire, because it will burn. I know this, even though I've never jumped in a fire before"). The same goes for certain morals; a soldier killing someone is *just as* wrong as anybody else killing somebody. What changes is the necessity: is that person about to blow you up? Then necessity outweights.

At the end of the day, people don't want soldiers to be "too comfortable" because going out and killing people shouldn't be nice, you should never be comfortable doing it, so you only do it when it's really necessary to. The thought of it being comfortable, rightly or wrongly, makes other people (aka "society") uncomfortable. Not sure whether I agree, but it's certainly understandable.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[FiveDollarYoBet]

Been back from Iraq for less than a year. We lived in steel containers with windows, a door and an AC unit cut into the sides. Our water tank was outside and non-potable so you didn't shower if you had a cut. In the winter the water was cold. In the summer it was too hot to shower after 7AM. About half the guys in my platoon had laptops. All but a few had iPods.

It's nice to be able to listen to some tunes or play some NCAA with the AC going full blast when it's 130F outside. You do it to try to bring back a feeling of normality. You know that in two hours you're going out for a patrol and you know that your sector is averaging an IED every other day but for that short time beforehand you can almost imagine that you're back home.

Is a $3000 plasma screen excessive? An entire DJ booth over the top? In my opinion yes, but to that soldier it's probably still not enough to make them feel like they were home.

One thing of note.... the PX who supplies most of the crap that soldiers buy is a monopoly. They stock that $3000 plasma that a buck private probably can't afford knowing that they'll take the money and run. In my opinion they were bigger cheats than the Haji shop on base that tried to sell you Rodex watches.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[azuretek]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, this isn't some technological "war" where both parties are on a level playing field. The enemy uses IED's and other low tech explosives and weapons to get the job done. To assume that they would go through the trouble or are even capable of checking for an "Electro Magnetic Leaks" is absurd.

Not to mention it's near impossible to deduce which type of device is being used based on a probably non-existent electrical signal. If it were really an concern we would be using this technology to sniff out our enemies too, no? Why isn't this technology being used if it's so simple?

Your comment is definitely not interesting, you're just one more person spreading rumors to fuel this countries fear of war and terrorism. We have the most technologically advanced army in the world and to imply we can be easily tracked and spotted when we don't want to be would mean we can be defeated.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[c6gunner]

(you low-balled, sir; C-5s are neither inexpensive nor cheap to operate, but I'll humor you by using your number) times how many soldiers over there?

The $10 was based on extra fuel burned on a flight with extra space, and is probably much higher than the actual number. I'm not sure how much exactly it costs to have a C-5 that's already flying anyway carry an extra 40lbs, but it's not going to exceed $10.

And as for number of personnel? Ok, so you spend $10 for every soldier deployed, and end up with $1.5 million on a yearly basis. Assuming equal tax rates for all US civilian (which isn't the case, but let's go with it), this means you'd be contributin a grand total of one half of one penny per year for me and every other soldier to be able to watch TV while risking our lives during the next year. I'm sorry you think a fraction of a penny is too much to ask you for. I guess it would be a WHOLE penny if you include the flight back, so that must make it even worse for you. Luckily you're just a doofus with a computer and a bad attitude, instead of someone who controls military policy.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[Caldeso]

Soldiers are going to entertain themselves one way or another

Suggested techniques for the marine to use in the avoidance of boredom and loneliness: Masturbation. Rereading of letters from unfaithful wives and girlfriends. Cleaning your rifle. Further masturbation. Rewiring Walkman. Arguing about religion and meaning of life. Discussing in detail, every woman the marine has ever fucked. Debating differences, such as Cuban vs. Mexican, Harleys vs. Hondas, left- vs. right-handed masturbation. Further cleaning of rifle. Studying of phillipino mail order bride catalogue. Further masturbation. Planning of marine's first meal on return home. Imagining what a marine's girlfriend and her man Jody are doing in the hay, or in the alley, or in a hotel bed.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[Zugok]

Military justice is one of the very few examples of law which has extra territorial effect. This is a common feature in the military justice system in all countries. However soemtimes where a law has been breached on the soil of a host nation, service members might be subject to the laws of that host nation. It depends if there is an 'agreement' withthat host or not.

Extra territorial effect is required becauce commanders need a tool to keep their members disciplined and obedient to the chain of command at all times. I know this because I am currently studying military law

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[TwistedEvo]

The person that moderated the parent Flamebait must have never been in Military service, let alone in the Corps.

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm currently stationed at one of the nicer bases in Iraq and I have to say that this article was pretty unfounded. Most of the references were ARS members and I think some of them have exagerated the circumstances of the deployment a bit (spending 7k on a network infrastructure and surfing p0rn on "Niprnet"-unsecure internet). To put the situation in perspective, most service members work at least 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. While many are not patrolling streets (I myself don't), we do spend an extraordinary amount of time engaged in work that can't be done with all the frills of electronic gadgetry. And when we do get time off, I think that you will find that many service members pursue one hobby or another. You have to remember that most service members view the military as a temporary position; a stepping stone to another life. I use my Alienware Laptop as a ASP.NET server environment, and practice my C# in my off time. I have a friend who is writing a book on his laptop. What about the 200 Marines and Soldiers I see in the Gym with their iPods getting fit? I might add that physical endurance, computer knowledge and writing skills directly translate to military occupational proficiency.

But on top of that, nobody tells you (Americans) how to spend your time. I find most military members are a sight more industrious than the average American. Look at the amount of overweight Americans. Look at the amount of Americans that spend over 6 hours of day playing their favorite MMORPG Now think about the amount of Americans that exercised for more than 4 hours this week.

I completely agree with FiveDollarYoBet about this issue. AAFES (the company running the PX's) have programs to suck that hard earned cash out of the hands of service members. They provide payment packages to buy Harleys, convertibles, diamond engagement rings, etc. before you even get back to the United States. The ARS complained about service members taking advantage of cheap shipping from the states, but fail to see that we have no alternative to the store trying to sell garbage to us. There was also a complaint about the copy written material being distributed by the locals aka "Haji" (which is an improper reference to an Arab. It literally means a muslim that performed the Haj, a pilgrimage to Mecca, one of the pillars of islam). The locals selling this material are truely benefiting from it, more so than the RIAA and the MPAA. But you have to ask yourself where they get the material (where the rest of the world gets theirs, P2P). I also need to mention that US Customs agents are responsible for screening these items, so they don't make it back to the states. So if you have complaints, take it up with them.

The last thing I want to say is that I'm tired of people assuming they know what the other side of the fence is like. People not associated with the military will not understand military life. People who don't enjoy technology will not understand the "slashdot culture". We've all been affected by unfounded judgement, so why rush to place it on someone else?

Re:Unfounded Criticism

[surprise_audit]

But the military wisely realises that without *someone* to fund the terrorists, they'd run out of people to fight... :)

an interesting tidbit:

[yagu]

From the fine article, first page, a paragraph:

The entertainment industry has yet to sue soldiers in Iraq for copyright infringement, but perhaps it should if it's serious about stopping piracy. An MP in Afghanistan, who goes by the forum handle SirEverlast, tells Ars, "Every country I've been to has disregarded the MPAA and sold bootleg DVDs that soldiers buy for next to nothing."

First, please let this be tongue in cheek on the author's part (I'm assuming it is).

That aside, it's an interesting notion. Yeah, let the MPAA and RIAA go after the piracy of media by soldiers afield. The stipulation would be that the RIAA and MPAA must confront the accused personally, i.e., make them go the active front... after all, they've claimed they themselves are engaged in a war. What better way to experience that reality?

Anyway, if you've read Joseph Heller's Catch 22, soldiers' ingenuity to make their insane world a little more liveable is Milo Minderbinder redux. More power to them for making it through.

Re:an interesting tidbit:

[RingDev]

When I was in the military, prior to the days of bit-torrents, we had tons of "pirated" audio/video. On one network we had a server that reached 750 gigs of mp3s. It became almost competetive to see who could add the most music to it. The whole thing got wiped shortly before my EAS, for use in a new data storage system.

The thing about the military is that you have a large number of young men with a disposable income (ie: food, housing, medical care, and transportation are all provided). Sure, it's not much of an income, but when you don't have to spend money on rent, you cand stretch $14,400 a year pretty far on entertainment goodies(that was my salary as an E4 in 2001).

-Rick

Iraq

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in Iraq and having no problems surfing Slashdot while under fire.

In fact, bullets aren't even coming clo...^C^C^C^C^C No route to host.

Let's see if the RIAA really has any balls...

[sugapablo]

...and see them sue some soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan. :)

Somehow I think Orrin Hatch would shit a brick of confusion over how to react

Problem?

[GundamFan]

I would never deny a little bit of humanizing recreation to our troops. Maybe it is being so de-humanized in a very high stress life or death situation lead to things like PTSD and prisoner abuse scandals.

If you are willing to get shot at, I am willing to let you play playstation and listen to music on you off hours without any objection from me.

Re:Problem?

[dr_dank]

I get a little miffed at these puff pieces trying to paint the picture of our troops living in the lap of luxury in air conditioning and a barrack full of geek toys that rivals an aisle at Best Buy. Many troops out on the lines sweat their balls/ovaries off in tents in the sweltering heat, fight the fine sand that gets into their gameboys and damn near everywhere else, and face the looming threat of being splattered by a homemade bomb.

I'm glad that our troops can be entertained in this fashion and that some can get stationed in places with all kinds of creature comforts, but trying to paint a picture (paraphrasing Dave Barry) of the place as a glorified college dormatory is disingenious at best.

Re:Problem?

[gibbsjoh]

I get a little miffed when your soldiers invade another country. Forgive me if I don't get too upset when they get "splattered by a homemade bomb." Your troops still have it a hell of a lot better than the people who they've invaded, and who can blame the "insurgents" for turning to violence to repel the people who've taken over their country? If I recall, the Americans waged a guerilla war against the British too.

There was a time when serving your country meant defending it against threat (ie NOT IRAQ!)... now it's just colonialism by another name. Don't want to die fighting in a shit war? Don't join up!

(Yes, I am aware that many people in the US are given no other option economically than to enlist.. that's a failure of the system and while I won't wish the enlistees well, I will be saddened by their death.)

Flame away, i guess.

Re:Problem?

[dr_dank]

I get a little miffed when your soldiers invade another country. Forgive me if I don't get too upset when they get "splattered by a homemade bomb." Your troops still have it a hell of a lot better than the people who they've invaded, and who can blame the "insurgents" for turning to violence to repel the people who've taken over their country? If I recall, the Americans waged a guerilla war against the British too.

While I agree that the US invasion was sold on lies and serves the interests of the rich and powerful while making the US no more safe, the troops don't get any say in where they're sent and do. They didn't get up one day and decide to take over Iraq, "secure" the oil, and install a puppet government. Those decisions were made by people who are so far insulated from the costs and horrors of the war that they might as well be on another planet.

If you're going to take issue with somebody, point the finger at the assholes who sent them there, not the poor schmucks who are bound to do their dirty work if they have any hope of going to college.

Re:Problem?

[glesga_kiss]

I'm glad that our troops can be entertained in this fashion and that some can get stationed in places with all kinds of creature comforts

What we need to be careful about however is the perception of this confort by for example the Iraqi people. That's been one of the big criticisms of the way Iraq has been handled. While the Iraqi's don't have clean water, working sewage and electricity, our troops were chilling in big palaces with all the latest toys. Many Iraqis compared them to Saddam.

Of course, I'm not saying that they shouldn't have toys. But there is a balance to be had and I'm sure spoiling soldiers probably isn't all that operationally wise. There's good reason for the discipline in the armed forces.

However, I honestly think everyone has missed the real problem that could arise from all of this. Should a soldier get captured, a gameboy might entertain his guards. But imagine they got a hold of a flash drive with personal information, letters home. Or even some GPS enabled phone that has been logging the platoons movements for the past three months! The army probably wants to do a risk accessment on a lot of devices, as well as issuing advice etc to the troops.

Re:Problem?

[ClamIAm]

why do people join up in the US knowing the direction of current foreign policy?

Short answer: they don't. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most recruit-age Americans who understand the consequences of our foreign policies are generally not the ones heading off to Basic. In the interest of disclosure, I consider myself part of this group.

Now we get to the fun (read: scary) part. The US nowadays claims to have a "volunteer" military. This is technically true. However, the reality is very different.

Over the past 30 years, wealth in this country has become extremely concentrated. The obvious effect here is that fewer people own things (home, business, stock, etc), and as a result fewer have financial freedom. Another important effect here is the one of education. Local taxes are used to fund public (state-run) schools, so poor communities often have low-quality schools. This end result is a bunch of people who have no financial freedom and are not very educated (no marketable skills, etc). Those who are smart enough to overcome poor schooling don't have a good chance of making it into and through college.

The military is a pretty attractive option at this point. It's a steady job, provides training (and money for school), and has the bonuses of seeing far-off lands and playing with fun toys (tanks, planes, etc).

The really scary part is the little conspiracy theorist voice in my head is telling me this was the plan all along. The kings and nobles who have all the wealth need people to grow their empire. Vietnam was a PR disaster, which means the draft is going away. Instead, let's squeeze the working classes so many of their sons and daughters are enlisted. Next comes Support The Troops. If you don't Support The Troops, you're a terrorist.

I realize that last paragraph may be seen as inflammatory, but really it's not. This has nothing to do with any political ideology. What it has to do with is the balance of power in this country, and why our current situation is very scary.

It's still war.

[Rob T Firefly]

The personal electronics have made modern American warfare the most comfortable it has ever been

That's rather like saying we've invented a form of molten lead that's more comfortable to have poured onto you than normal common or garden variety molten lead. These soldiers aren't exactly enjoying an evening at Chuck E. Cheese, for pity's sake!

So that is where Perry went.

[krell]

"No more Perry Como forced down our soldier's throats"

Ah. Soylent Green day at the mess tent. I bet he went down smooooooth too.

Chuck E Cheez - our robot elvis man-dog overlords.

[krell]

"These soldiers aren't exactly enjoying an evening at Chuck E. Cheese, for pity's sake!"

Did you ever go to any of the last of the "old style" Chuck E Cheez's before they closed down? You know, the ones where you'd walk down a hall and look off to the side and there would be a huge auditorium, empty of humans, and on a stage was a band made of giant Elvis man-dog robots that shook and gyrated, with their crude mechanics making so much noise that the songs in the speakers couldn't even be heard? If this scene (and it was real) isn't as close as you can come to the future war with the robots, then nothing is.

I'm reminded of what Colnel Kurtz said

[antifoidulus]

in Apocalypse now, " As long as our officers and troups (sic) perform tours of duty limited to one year, they will remain dilletantes in war and tourists in Vietnam. As long as cold beer, hot food, rock and roll and all the other amenities remain the expected norm, our conduct of the war will gain only impotence. (In the document, but not read aloud - The wholesale and indiscriminate use of firepower will only increase the effectiveness of the enemy and strengthen their resolve to prove the superiority of an agrarian culture against the world's greatest technocracy...The central tragedy of our effort in this conflict has been the confusion of a sophisticated technology with human commitment. Our bombs may in time destroy the geography, but they will never win the war...)...We need fewer men, and better; if they were committed, this war could be won with a fourth of our present force..."

While I have been against the Iraq war from the begining, I wonder how much truth there is to this. Are short stints and relatively comfortable surroundings really not motivating the troops to do their job? A quote from Captain Willard: "Charlie didn't get much USO. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R and R was cold rice and a little rat meat. He had only two ways home: death or victory."

Just take the above quotes and replace "Vietnam" with "Iraq" and "Charlie" with the insurgency and you have quotes that apply as much to this war as it did 'Nam....

Re:I'm reminded of what Colnel Kurtz said

[ChronosWS]

The real trouble here isn't figuring out how to win these wars more quickly, it's about figuring out how to avoid getting into them in the first place, especially ones where we end up occupying foreign territory. Such situations always end poorly, especially when it's not crystal clear to our soldiers who the bad guys are and why they need to die. I have nothing but sympathy for our soldiers and the horrid situation they are in, and nothing but contempt for the leadership who put them in that situation.

Besides, I'd rather have them flying back with nightmares that haunt them for the rest of their lives. It's a reminder to them and to the rest of us who speak with them of the horrors of war, and should serve as an object lesson in why it must be avoided.

Re:I'm reminded of what Colnel Kurtz said

[Archangel Michael]

"Just take the above quotes and replace "Vietnam" with "Iraq" and "Charlie" with the insurgency and you have quotes that apply as much to this war as it did 'Nam"

Hardly. And if you only care about dead soldiers and not dead anybody else, or if you only care about US killed civilians and not terrorist killed civillians or .....

The conflict in Iraq is NOTHING like 'Nam, unless you are a peace and surrender at any cost type. You remember Chamberlain? ("I have a piece of paper")

The people we are fighting against, the Islamofacists don't care about anything the Cindy Sheehans of the world care about. They will kill her just as soon as she is done being useful to them.

They don't care about about political correctness or rights or anything of value to most of us. I think the war has already been lost, and making "nice" with them doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Re:I'm reminded of what Colnel Kurtz said

[JBHarris]

Besides, I'd rather have them flying back with nightmares that haunt them for the rest of their lives. It's a reminder to them and to the rest of us who speak with them of the horrors of war, and should serve as an object lesson in why it must be avoided.

This has to be one of the sickest things I've ever heard. You WANT humans to suffer just to further your anti-war agenda. Worst.Idea.Ever.

Re:I'm reminded of what Colnel Kurtz said

[monopole]

Are you out of your honking mind?

First off, most personnel are on their 3rd to 4th tour of duty, a circumstance unprecedented in recent history. Soldiers in WWII, Vietnam, and Korea had shorter tours of duty and a defined endpoint to their enlistment. With stop loss and arbitrary callup of the IRR, soldiers are forced to stay on or get called back up long past their existing commitments. Second, wheras soldiers in Vietnam could pull R&R in Siagon without excessive fear of harm, most units are presently bottled up on base for the length of their tours, with few creature comforts. The lack of stateside R&R has led to a very high rate of divorce. No sane individual can maintain combat operations for longer than 150 days in a row without complete breakdown.

Next off, we are currently practicing officially sanctioned torture, engaging in indisriminate retalitory air-strikes and opening fire on vehicles approaching checkpoints at the slightest percieved provocation. How do we up the ante? Public beheading? Genocide? Tactical nukes? And if so, would it work? The experience with resistance movements under the SS tends to show that even the most brutal repression in occupied territories still meets up with resistance.

What will our standing in the world be if we renounce our humanity and engage in barbarism to achieve our goals? If we do produce soldiers capable of causal murder and brutality, who can only function in the chaos of war, what do we do with them after the war, how do we reassimilate them into the population?

Finally, why haven't you visited your local reciuiter? I'm certian they would be overjoyed to garantee an 11 Bravo MOS so you could test these theories in the real world.

Remember Kurtz was the villian.

Re:I'm reminded of what Colnel Kurtz said

[sgtrock]

Kurtz was wrong on several counts. "Apocalypse Now" was a hell of a movie, but it disregarded a hell of a lot of facts to tell a story.

Let me state for the record that I think the war in Iraq should have been fought, but we fought it for all the wrong reasons. Saddam needed to be booted out, and should have been in '91 when we had a better force for the purpose on the ground. Failing that, Saddam's wilful flaunting of all of the UN sanctions combined with the wholesale slaughter of his own people demanded that he be removed. By force if necessary. Realistically, that was the only way he was leaving office.

In any case, a better model for Iraq post 2003 should have been Germany at the end of WWII. Our senior leadership should have recognized that we were going to be seen as an occupying force, /not/ liberators. The British, French, Russian, and American forces on the ground in 1945 faced several years of sabotage, assasination attempts, etc. IOW, guerilla warfare at its worst.

Why did we eventually win the peace? Because we had enough boots on the ground from the beginning to provide true security throughout the country (and to act as unofficial US ambassadors with the locals), we were in place for at least a decade to make sure that the last of the Hitler's fanatical supporters had been run to ground, and we had the Marshall Plan in place from the beginning to begin rebuilding the infrastructure of Europe.

Contrast that with Iraq and our current leadership. Before the war started, Rumsfeld fired the generals who told him the real scale of what he really needed on the ground, Bush&Co. were clearly surprised that we weren't welcomed with open arms by the locals, Rumsfeld had no plan to deal with the inevitable insurgency, Rumsfeld /still/ doesn't have anywhere /near/ the number of troops in Iraq that we really need (IMO he needs at least triple or quadruple the current number in country just to begin restabilizing things), Cheney let Halliburton leech off the federal teat instead of making sure that dollars spent on Iraqi infrastructure were actually fixing things.

So what has 3+ years in Iraq gotten us? Bogged down, spending money and lives like a drunken sailor, and we can't even keep the capitol secure for people to buy groceries. The relatively few Iraqis who do come in contact with US forces frequently end up with a negative impression of us because the only time they see us face to face is when they're at the wrong end of an M16. And I haven't even mentioned this administration's apparent complete disregard for anything remotely resembling moral, ethical, or legal treatment of prisoners.

I could see much of this coming in 2002. Although I never would have predicted Abu Ghraib or transferring prisoners to Egypt for torture! I thought Bush understood what country he represented.

I consider myself to be a small 'c' conservative and generally vote an independent or split ticket. I tried to warn my friends who consider themselves to be Republicans that they were being sold a bill of goods by their party's leadership. I warned them then that we were in Iraq for at least 8 years if we were going to really win. Most scoffed. A couple of them believed me. Even the believers felt that what I thought was necessary to win wasn't going to be politically possible. My response then was that we'd end up looking at another Vietnam if we didn't.

Sun Tzu and Machiavelli offer the opposite view

[brokeninside]

As the length of a war increases, the length of tours of duty increase and the likelihood that the war can be won decreases. The most effective fighting force is one of fresh troops who know that they will not be staying long. These troops have relatively high moral. The longer they stay in the theatre, the more demoralized they become and the less they care about the end of the war.

Re:Sun Tzu and Machiavelli offer the opposite view

[daigu]

Sun Tzu wrote military strategies for armies just prior to the consolidation of states during what is now called the Warring States period. Machiavelli wrote in the hopes of a Prince that his strategies would enable a Prince to unify Italy under a single government - despite the fact he preferred a republican form of government. Neither is particularly insightful on guerilla warfare.

You want to know how the U.S. government approaches this kind of war? Try reading the manuals that the CIA, Marine Corps, U.S. Army and others have put together on the topic.

While these are fairly large to summarize, let's just say that comments like these are not unusual:

Because America retains significant advantages in fires and surveillance, a thinking enemy is unlikely to choose to fight U.S. forces in open battle. Opponents who have attempted to do so, such as in Panama in 1989 or Iraq in 1991 and 2003, have been destroyed in conflicts that have been measured in hours or days. Conversely, opponents who have offset America's fire and surveillance advantages by operating close to civilians and news media, such as Somali clans in 1993 and Iraqi insurgents in 2005, have been more successful in achieving their aims. This does not mean that counterinsurgents do not face open warfare. Insurgents resort to conventional military operations if conditions seem right, in addition to using milder means such as nonviolent political mobilization of people, legal political action, and strikes.

My point is that this is not an issue of fresh troops and a quick in and out strategy. Winning these kinds of wars means living with people, sharing their lives and commitment. It is very much what the original poster was getting at that it requires a completely different frame of reference to "win" a conflict like this one and the military is only one part of many that needs to be brought into play - and they need to think about their jobs differently as these manuals will attest.

While it is possible to use a strategy like the Romans did with their legions where you have quick strike capability (by building roads) that maintains a certain level of discipline throughout an empire, this was used in conjunction with other political and social strategies. Ultimately, it was Rome's dependence on the legions and the use of mercenaries that eventually was the undoing of that empire - a lesson the U.S. would do well to learn.

Back-seat drivers: discipline

[redelm]

The RIAA & MPAA going after soldiers is a farce: I seriously doubt the US military command would tolerate any such attack against them. It's actually easy enough to render legal: the US govt has the power and authority to use any patents, copyrights and trademarks however it wishes with impunity. An argument could be made they already have by failing to block ports/sites.

People who've never been deployed and only seen movies don't realize that soldiering is 99% boredom and 1% sheer terror. It is just as important (maybe more) to handle the boredom as the terror.

Re:Chuck E Cheez - our robot elvis man-dog overlor

[jeffy210]

a band made of giant Elvis man-dog robots that shook and gyrated,

You just brought back a very very bad childhood memory.

Re:Off on a tangent

[ohearn]

Technically if you are an active member of the military (active duty, or guard or reserve that has been called up), you can legally drink at 18 with your military ID.

Another good paragraph, more Catch 22

[iamlucky13]

Another thing about Catch 22 is that it showed how the first contention of the article, that soldiers used to go to battle with nothing more than a rifle and a backpack isn't true. Remember Orr, Yossarian's tent-mate? He was always adding stuff to the tent. Basically everytime he came into a scene, he was either being shot down or trying to get the gas stove working better. Or consider the show MASH. Hawkeye's tent was full of "luxury" items. Ok these are fictional accounts, but based on non-fiction accounts I've read, I'd be willing to bet they were pretty close the real case in terms of personal possessions...at least for units that stayed in one place for any significant amount of time.

Here's another good paragraph

Ana Marie Cox argued that soldiers' expectations of war are now so shaped by movies and video games that they are unable to experience a conflict in any other way. They want to see battle as pure action, devoid of context, full of simple goals and explosions, and so when they put together music videos of their time in Iraq (and most home videos do feature music), they tend to unconsciously echo the movies and games they've seen and played.

I'm more inclined to think it goes the other way: movies and video games are unable to depict conflict any other way than by focusing on the action, only filling in the context sufficiently to give the viewer/gamer a plausible plot. Except for fans of the movie Jarhead, nobody is very much fascinated by the mundane elements of war: cleaning your rifle, trying to stay awake through guard duty, cleaning your rifle, doing PT, cleaning your rifle, cleaning the latrines, cleaning your rifle. Audiences expect 5 minutes of that, then a lot of shooting and heroism.

Consider amatuer movies at home. For example, the obligatory end-of-the-season high school football team music video recap. It's all clips of tackles, touchdowns, passes, field goals, pranks during scrimmage, etc. Nobody's interested in the time spent running around the track, doing calistenics, sitting on the bench, and especially not sitting in class trying to maintain acedemic elegibility.

Furthermore, we really are talking about amatuer's here, putting together simple recaps. They're not master storytellers. They don't have the time or luxury of putting together complex narratives, and since they're only sharing this with friends and family, they don't need complex expositions making it clear to the viewer that this is so-and-so's involvement in Operation Enduring Freedom.

Yeah, let the MPAA and RIAA go after the piracy of media by soldiers afield.

Actually, let them go after the parties offering the goods for sale. As I understand, the lawyers interest is not as much in the receivers as the providers. Please, go confront Abdul about his copying CD's to sell to the GI's. A flak jacket might be a good a better idea than a briefcase, though.

Re:Chuck E Cheez - our robot elvis man-dog overlor

[Rob T Firefly]

Hah, I used to work on a generic version of those beastly robots for a Chuck E. Cheese competitor. One time we had the furry coverings stripped off the whole set for maintainance. I still consider watching a band of animal-shaped Terminator endoskeletons sing happy kiddie songs on a loop for half an hour to be one of the best concerts I've ever been to.

Sounds like ripe targets for virus attacks

[MadHungarian]

If the solders are picking up "cheap" cd's/dvd's, what are the chances they are also picking up "cheap" software? Wouldn't this software be a good way for the enemy to deliver viruses? Are command/control systems isolated enough from the solders personal electronics to prevent virus infections?

Re:Sounds like ripe targets for virus attacks

[Red Flayer]

If the solders are picking up "cheap" cd's/dvd's, what are the chances they are also picking up "cheap" software?

For that matter, what's preventing them from picking up "cheap" prostitues and a raging case of typhoid or syphilus?

Are command/control systems isolated enough from the solders personal electronics to prevent virus infections?

Yes.

I liked this little bit...

[JD-1027]

"There's a fairly robust grey market run by the locals wherein a person can pick up movies which are still in theaters for a paltry $3.00," he says. "They aren't the best quality, usually, but things like series which have already been released (Sopranos, Buffy, FireFly) are also available at the $3.00/disk pricepoint and are ripped from the actual DVD sets. The quality of those items is right up there with the legitimate stuff, and all the stupid warnings and previews are usually done away with."

God Bless America

You hear that, Sony?

[RyoShin]

"Raised on Nintendo and Arnold Schwarzenegger movies," Cox writes

DiePilot, for one, isn't convinced by the argument. "[...] I don't act in real life like I do in a virtual world, because 1up mushrooms are scarce resources out here."

You hear that, Sony? Our soldiers are trained by Nintendo!

And the Wii will only make them even better shots. The smallest of the consoles, it will be the easiest to pack up and ship out. Using the Wiimote on a low sensitivity will help to better train hand-eye cordination, as well. (It will also server a double purpose with the DVD functionality.)

So you better watch your back, or the console wars may become real wars...

"fighting for democracy"? Are you joking?

[SuperBanana]

Our troops aren't just fighting for Democracy, they're also fighting for stable economies & developed infrastructures.

Have you picked up a newspaper lately? Half a million Iraqi citizens dead, infrastructure (that we destroyed) still massively broken despite billions upon billions of dollars being forked over to government contractors, and currently the country is essentially in the midst of civil war; you've got your warlords, and now there are Iraqi police departments turning into gangs. The country is in complete, total, utter chaos.

The party line is "fighting for freedom", by the way.

CALL THE RIAA

[nightsweat]

They're pirating music! Call in the RIAA!

Note: I'm not so much in favor of soldiers getting sued as I am in favor of soldiers with a grudge and souvenir rpg's visiting the riaa to rebut their arguments...

Re:Off on a tangent

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats simply not true. You are not legally allowed to drink at the age of 18 with a military ID, people just overlook it and allow you to enjoy yourself. In countries where the drinking age is lower than that of the United States, the chain of command will deem the age limit as they see fit.

Where i am stationed the drinking age is 18 for the local nationals and as such the command has stated that it will follow the laws of our host nation.

So no, it is not true. I am all for those of us who risk our lives for our nation to be allowed to enjoy ourselves(This includes drinking at the ages of 18-21). Too many of my friends have died before they were able to enjoy many of the things that life has to offer.

No, I'm not joking!

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you picked up a newspaper lately? Half a million Iraqi citizens dead, infrastructure (that we destroyed) still massively broken despite billions upon billions of dollars being forked over to government contractors, and currently the country is essentially in the midst of civil war; you've got your warlords, and now there are Iraqi police departments turning into gangs. The country is in complete, total, utter chaos.

I didn't say who's economy, democracy or infrastructure they were fighting for :)

eldavojohn

let's take that further

[Travoltus]

A lot of those soldiers are under 21. I say let's give them the right to drink.

$5 is all you need - RIAA stops at the border

[speedlaw]

anyone who has been to ANY third world country, or anyplace where the USA is not the govt, will have noticed that $5 is all you need for any software...Windows XP Pro, Photoshop, or any game you can imagine. $5 is all you need for anything at all. Computer sellers outside the us make the money only on hardware, not software. So our Troops, stationed in a third world country, with hard currency, have access to this...so what ? I'm an American, but I know that the USA is not the world, and outside our borders, things are different...not better, not worse, just different. Even tho' they should NOT be there, if any of the poor bastards sent forth by the chickenhawk asshat cabal (mis)"running" our country finds some fun or escape in a bootleg copy of "Buckaroo Bonzai" or a recording of some rock,rap or country, I'm all for it. There are bits of the USA in Iraq, protected zones. That's because they didn't welcome us with open arms, as we were lied to by Cheney and Rumsfeld. Really, the RIAA is as laugable as our War on Drugs. Sure, some people get hurt by it, but mostly it is ignored or used as a payoff to the local warlords, who use it to deliever up a local who is out of favor with the ruling junta.

Posters Missed the Point

[Calso]

Many of the above entries have been quick to criticize the article as negatively portraying troops as tech-addicted consumer whores or even implying that we should deprive soldiers of morale boosting comforts. The author painted these perhaps unflattering portraits of American soldiers enjoying Counterstrike and porn to illustrate that these are aspects of the American lifestyle that we aggressively defend. The amount of posters who have apparently ignored this main argument to defend the after hours activities of troops shows just how much we hold our gadgets dear to us. I love playing an online FPS, watching porn, and listening to my iPod as much as my fellow countrymen, but it seems crass to have these icons rise to the forefront of American ideals and Democracy. It creates a bit of dissonance with those commericals featuring Marines single-handedly slaying lava monsters (unless most Marines are really into WoW or something). Anyway, the author made the point that we need to re-examine our global image, especially as manifested through our fighting forces.

You can say fuck on slashdot

[spun]

Especially when you are quoting source material that actually uses the word, like so:

"Fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck. What's the big fuckin' deal?"

Other things you probably shouldn't say. Like Donkey raping shit-eater. You definitely shouldn't say donkey raping shit-eater on slashdot. People could get offended if you mentioned donkey raping shit-eaters.

Mellonfarmer? Come on. What's the point of shit like that? What are you, some kinda smegma licking pussy? Everyone knows what you mean, it's not like people don't make the fucking mental translation instantly, you haven't sheilded their tender, innocent brains from having to process and comprehend "that word."

Sorry, sorry, that was kind of a rangent (that's a rant off on a tangent...) But if you learned anything from all this, it's that you shouldn't mention donkey raping shit-eaters on slashdot.

Re:You can say fuck on slashdot

[Insipid Trunculance]

spun (1352)

C'mon now grandpa,should you be using such language at your age? Wont you think of the kids?

Re:You can say fuck on slashdot

[spun]

I do think of the kids. Why, not a day goes by that I don't say, "Get off my lawn, you damn kids!"

That's a Little Extreme

[aplusjimages]

"is a traitor to this country and the men and women defending it."

Now you are sounding more like the music industry. That's like calling a kid who downloads pirated stuff a criminal. I agree that our troops shouldn't be cracked down for pirated content, but I hate this crap about calling people traitors. It's being misused just like the word heros.

Re:That's a Little Extreme

[IAmTheDave]

but I hate this crap about calling people traitors. It's being misused just like the word heros.

Really? Not to start a flame war, but there is a difference between supporting the troops and supporting the war effort. I would, IMHO if it makes you feel better, consider the RIAA a bunch traitors to this country if they tried to take away a few simple comforts of home to protect their bottom line from soldiers in the field.

I'm not calling someone who is against the Iraq war a traitor, I'm calling someone who cares more for their wallet than the soldiers on the other side of the world fighting for their lives a traitor - and I stick by that assessment. (Although, I understand your sentiment.)

Re:That's a Little Extreme

[aplusjimages]

I would say the RIAA is a bunch of jerks if they do it. Definitely douche bag would come to mind as well, but hey these are already common place words when describing them. John Walker Lindh, now that's a traitor.

We just need to be careful who we call traitor because if it becomes a laxed word then soon everyone will be a traitor, but I definitely see what you are saying. It would be a big betrayal to the troops and a big waste of that companies time. But I say hey, let the RIAA go to Iraq and find the troops in the field and ask for the iPods. They most likely won't make it back alive. Either the Iraqis will kill them, or some "accidental" friendly fire.

Re:That's a Little Extreme

[aplusjimages]

No. For example when people who survive an accident are being called heroes now. They are survivors not heroes.

Re:That's a Little Extreme

[niliin]

Now while I am no fan of joining the military, nor am I a fan for normal human traits(stupdity, selfisnous, greed). However, your comment is rather... out there. Yes, a soilder gets paid to go "kill" and see places, but your missing the downfalls to that. I'm not saying whatever your job is, is difficult. I'm saying your not even trying to understand what they go through, now either be it because of a personal exeperenice in some way with armed forces, or just plain a bad outlook on life. A soilder as it were has the 'choice' to sign up for military service which they did. I say 'choice' with caution because for some of these people, there choice is rather small in options, now I have a pretty decent life so I chose not to join up, however when your choice is join the military or stay in your gang ridden neiborhood with no jobs and no money to better yourself or even live (yes this is one of the bad cases) there is a lack of choices for instance's like these.

And more to the point, NO I don't believe they should get any special treatment, however that includes BOTH POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE treatment.

Also please, if your going to post a rant of your personal belief's, do it as your self instead of being scared of what others would think and posting anonymously
*Yes I have incorrect spelling and bad grammer.

Re:That's a Little Extreme

[LindseyJ]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that people don't try to kill you as an ordinary, day-to-day part of your job.

Re:That's a Little Extreme

[don_bear_wilkinson]

And I could make an argument for calling you a traitor, or perhaps more accurately as being "Unamerican", for not being a proper defendant of the true American way. Nothing is more important to this society that the promulgation of profit. Capitalism is the game. We sidestep morals, ethics and, as often as can be managed, law, to get to the black ink and beyond - every f'ing day.

It can be said that the major REASON we are in that part of the world, putting our young men and women at risk and to death, is to protect our access to the fuels of capitalism, to evangelize capitalism, to import/export capitalism. Our flavor, which we believe we have the god-given DUTY to force on everyone else.

No wonder we are hated and mocked.

Re:That's a Little Extreme

[UbuntuDupe]

What's with the capitalism bashing? I accept that specific corporations have something to gain from lucrative military contracts. Great. But as far as I know, "capitalism" involves buying the oil from its (willing) sellers in the Middle East. What does that have to do with war?

And how is Middle Eastern oil a "fuel" of capitalism? "STOP, STOP, everyone, oil's gone up a few dollars a barrel, we're going to have to shut everything down and go to worker-owned production now! It is impossible for us to use nuclear, coal, or natural gas. We cannot change our current methods of production in any way whatsoever without granting full public ownership of all goods."

Re:That's a Little Extreme

[Wes Janson]

Some trust fund prosecutor, got off-message at Yale, thinks he's gonna run this up the flagpole, make a name for himself, maybe get elected some two-bit, congressman from nowhere, with the result that Russia or China can suddenly start having, at our expense, all the advantages we enjoy here. No, I tell you. No, sir. Corruption charges! Corruption? Corruption is government intrusion into market efficiencies in the form of regulations. That's Milton Friedman. He got a goddamn Nobel Prize. We have laws against it precisely so we can get away with it. Corruption is our protection. Corruption keeps us safe and warm. Corruption is why you and I are prancing around in here instead of fighting over scraps of meat out in the streets. Corruption is why we win.

Syriana is one of the few good movies made recently. And I think it made your point precisely.

Re:Off on a tangent

[tacarat]

Technically if you are an active member of the military (active duty, or guard or reserve that has been called up), you can legally drink at 18 with your military ID.

That's not true anymore. I've never been to any base that didn't follow the legal drinking age of the surrounding area (US drinking age vs Overseas bases). I think there's an installation by the Mexican border in Texas that allows it, but that's because there were too many accidents involving troops crossing the border to drink legally and rushing back. I've seen enough people get demoted, fined and forced to make public statements about underage drinking to think it's a good idea for any service member to do.

If you haven't signed up for the military, I'd say don't until you're of legal US drinking age. Get some living and college under your belt. I waited until a few months after my 21st, and the credits qualified me for an early promotion. At the lower ranks, a quicker promotion is money in your pocket and the chance to not have a complete tool trying to pull rank on you.

Someone tell Stephen Colbert...

[nmaster64]

You heard it, the RIAA hates our troops. That's just un-American...

I say we invade the RIAA next...

Don't forget,

[iceperson]

While members of the military do probably take a lot more 'niceties' to the field now than they did in the past, they are also leaving a lot more of what they have come to be accustomed to behind. While my grandfather didn't have an i-pod in WW2, he didn't really have a lot 'luxuries' he left behind here in the states. I guess what I'm saying is, it's all relative.

Hi, you're wrong

[BitterAndDrunk]

A source.

Not the only source, but a half-assed google search found the AMA with an article on page 1. Lots of goodies there, here's one:
"A higher MLDA results in fewer alcohol-related problems among youth, and the 21-year-old MLDA saves the lives of well over 1,000 youth each year (Jones et al, 1992; NHTSA, 1989). Conversely, when the MLDA is lowered, motor vehicle crashes and deaths among youth increase. At least 50 studies have evaluated this correlation (Wagenaar, 1993)."

Thanks for playing.

Re:Blackwatch Found Same Criticism

[iceperson]

Your uncle is a fool if he thinks the problems in Vietnam were with the soldiers and not the politicians. I have no doubt that the men and women serving there would have given us a victory had they been given the chance to do so.

Personal entertainment devices not new during war

[Secrity]

GI's had portable phonographs in World War 1 (although they weren't carried in the field).

In World War 2, the troops had "foxhole" (crystal) radios, the detector was a razor blade and safety pin. There were many AC and DC powered radios. AFRTS started broadcasting during World War 2. There were also portable phonographs.

I am not sure what the GI's used during the Korean Conflict because transistor radios hadn't been introduced yet; they would have had phonographs, they may have carried battery operated tube type radios.

In Vietnam, transistor radios and tape players were carried in the field. MANY GI's came home from Vietman with high end stereos.

During the Gulf War and Bosnia, there would have been portable radios, portable CD players and possibly still some portable cassette players.

iPods and MP3 players were probably first used in Afghanistan.

Now, during Iraqui Freedom and Afghanistan, the state of the technology includes iPods. Same idea, smaller devices.

Honor our soldiers in battle

[rice_burners_suck]

Who cares if a soldier listens to an iPod? You know, my school sent a shipping container full of books of all kinds to our soldiers in Iraq. They deserve a whole lot more than that for their efforts and for risking their lives for your benefit.

What? You're not a U.S. citizen, you say? Support our troops anyway, because their work is still saving your life, no matter what country you're from.

Re:Honor our soldiers in battle

[Cederic]

Actually your soliders are increasing the risks to my life. If every American soldier fell over dead tomorrow I would be personally delighted.

If there was a big button to press to make it happen, I'd be joining the queue.

Support your troops? No.

Re:Honor our soldiers in battle

[Achromatic1978]

Support our troops anyway, because their work is still saving your life

Sorry, I must have missed the bit where I owed the US military my life. Care to offer a credible example?

Nothing new....

[Chanc_Gorkon]

This is not all that new. A friend of mine in college had a kick ass computer (a 386 when I had a 286) and had every game imagineable. All of which he got when in the military. One thing you have, if your single, when your on active duty is money. Yuo don't have to pay for clothes or food when your on active duty. Yuo still get paid and thus can buy alot of stuff at teh PX or on Amazon.com. Personally, I agree with others.....this war in Iraq is now about 3 years old and it's time for us to exit, or make sure we swap in fresh troops on a regular basis. Give the ones who have been out for a while a long leave. If this is impossible, then at least make the off duty hours comfortable.

Re:Chuck E Cheez - our robot elvis man-dog overlor

[oofoe]

Actually...

On specific instructions from the Chuck E. Cheez top management, a large number of these had their fur disposed of and their endoskeletons/mechanics cut up with blowtorches. A friend of mine used to work at one of these places when the order came down. He managed to rescue one of them (sans fur) from the cutter and I wound up with it when he no longer had space for it. It's a very interesting device, all pneumatically actuated using a low pressure air line. He also managed to grab a programming console for it, which you can use to drive it manually. All you need is an air source (a truck inner tube will do) and you can drive it around. Since this one was the lead guitar player (I think), it has a reasonable number of degrees of freedom.

The most striking thing about it is the beautiful blue eyes. Seeing it for the first time is quite a shock since the rest of it is quite Terminator-esque.

It's currently standing guard in my basement, waiting for the rise of Goog... I mean SkyNet...

Gotta speak my mind...

[MBC1977]

Gents and Ladies,

Regardless of what side of the coin you follow (democrat or republican, liberal or conservative), if you are not putting your
life on the line don't criticize others that do. In addition, as to servicemembers allegedly listening to music or watching videos
illegally, I would ask you to consider the morale factor. If you know you can possibly die at anytime, do you really think that we care
(during our deployment in a hostile country) that the RIAA is going to come after us? Whatever my fellow servicemembers and I need to
maintain our calm in a chaotic situation is what matters plain and simple. Because the simple matter is lives are at stake, namely ours.
Irregardless of whether this war is a good or bad action to undertake.

Another way I'll put is like this: If the RIAA wants to fight terrorism in Iraq before it comes to our shores, I'll gladly hand my M16A4
over to one of the cushy (or pudgy in somecases) lawyers and they can stand post. I don't mind sitting on my ass collecting big checks from
overpaid, overhyped artists (whom the majority can't sing or act anyway). At least I won't harrass dead people's families, college students,
and children. (Not to mention, all that gear hurts my back any damm way).

Regards,

MBC1977
(US Marine, College Student, and Good Guy)

Please note: The following comment is personal and not an official US Marine statement

Can't think of anything better!

[mackil]

One of the best parts of Battlefield Vietnam was being able to blow away enemy tanks and napalm helpless infantry with Van Halen blaring away on the speakers! Why would the real world be any different?

A new set of problems

[Taagehornet]

but they've also brought a new set of problems onto the battlefield.

Yup, like your iPod running low on batteries ...with a thousand miles to the nearest electrical outlet.
That reeeally makes you wanna shoot somebody...

I guess we should do it like the good old days...

[Dcnjoe60]

I guess we should do it like the good old days, no electronics, no games or toys, just beer and pot.

Yes, you do have to speak your mind! So do I.

[Fantastic Lad]

Regardless of what side of the coin you follow (democrat or republican, liberal or conservative), if you are not putting your life on the line don't criticize others that do.

The problem is that public tax dollars are funding the whole mess. Just because the kids they send over there have been sold on a total lie, (being that the war has any positive moral qualities to it at all and is not largely a money scam/creepy apocalypse cult thing for Bush and friends), doesn't mean that I shouldn't speak my mind about it. In fact, I'd say that the exact opposite is true.

Burglars, rapists and murderers also put their lives on the line in their chosen profession, but I'm certainly not going to withhold my criticism about them.

Sorry. You may be a nice guy, and no doubt you are, but you are still carrying an automatic weapon in a land where you are not and never were wanted. There were no WMD's in Iraq, Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11, and Iraq is a lot worse off today than it was before the American invasion, and the only people benefiting are those selling weapons and oil, and they will keep the war running until the public finally threatens to hang the management. So why on earth are you playing pawn out there? If I were you, I'd get out right smart quick before I got hurt or before my brain short-circuited on too much negative stimulus.

Best wishes and good luck to you!

-FL

Okay, but you need to back that up.

[Fantastic Lad]

Just don't expect the socialist haters in America see things any other way than "Israel is the lapdog of Imperialist America" and "Bush is Hitler!" and various other ploys taken out of the Islamic Jihad playbook.

You mean like, "There were no WMD's"? And, "Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11"? Or how about the Downing Street Memo fave, "Blair and Bush planned to invade regardless of whether they found WMD's or not."?

And let's not forget about, "Close friends and family of Bush and his cabal benefit directly from arms and oil sales."

This all comes from the Western Press. So what are you talking about?

-FL

Piracy is the least of my concern

[vivin]

Thank you, kind sir for putting it in perspective.

Piracy is the least of our concerns here. In fact, piracy is mostly the ONLY way we are able to get music and movies to bring a little comfort into our lives. I'm stationed in Iraq now, and have been so for the past 10 months. Let me tell you - we soldiers swap movies and music amongst ourselves all the time. The PX'es have a small selection of music and movies, and so we turn to other avenues (like swapping music and movies) or buying pirated CD's and DVD's from Iraqis. We can get whole TV series (Babylon 5, Sopranos, Simpsons) and if they are DVD rips, the quality is pretty good. We can even get movies when they're still in theater - of course, the copy is pretty crappy, but sometimes it'll do. Piracy is rampant here and I wonder if the RIAA knows about it. To put it quite simply, none of us are really bothered - we're mostly trying to make sure we stay alert and alive. To be honest, I find that if I hear some music from a band/artist I like, I buy their CD's. For example, I recently got a song or two by Death Cab For Cutie from my friend. I liked their music, so I bought their CD.

I'm waiting for the day when the *AA sends their representatives into the battlefield to make sure piracy isn't running wild amongst the troops - I'd laugh. I wonder if they'd have the balls to do that or to prosecute soldiers/marines/seamen/airmen who are simply trying to make their lives a little more comfortable.

Ah yes, iPods at War

[Phoenix666]

I remember when I was in the service the only weapons they gave us were old battle-scarred walkmans that could only play 99 Red Balloons. That was before they realized that batteries did not carry enough charge and desert sand played the mickey with tape-fed cartridges. Often you'd be hunkered down in the trenches, waiting for the whistle and cry to go 'over the top,' only to find that your tape had jammed.

Then near the end of doing my bit, they rolled out slim players that needed only one battery and had special sand filters. They played, "Another One Bites the Dust," and were quite the thing. We put the Jerries to route with that number. A handful of the lads were equipped with odd prototypes that had no batteries or cartridges and got their songs from a computer, but we hard-bitten vets laughed and laughed and would never have gone to war with something like that.

Re:Yes, you do have to speak your mind! So do I.

[Fantastic Lad]

Try asking an Iraqi about that. They'd rather be able to choose to live in an "occupied" country and shoot at each other than have Saddam murder and rape them against their will.

Oh really? And how many Iraqis have you polled recently? Heck, how many Iraqis actually have the 'choice' you speak of. In any case, the kids making road-side bombs seem to think you don't know what you're talking about.

-FL