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The Mystery of Oregon's 'Dead Zone'
Roland Piquepaille writes "The area off Cape Perpetua on the central Oregon coast is now a gigantic crab and fish graveyard. It was first discovered in 2002, but according to the Christian Science Monitor, researchers at Oregon State University (OSU) have taken a close-up look into this coastal dead zone. And things are getting worse. A few weeks ago, the researchers measured the level of dissolved oxygen in this part of the ocean. They found that levels were 10 to 30 times lower than normal, down to 0.5 milliliters per liter, a characteristic of hypoxia. And because they have no explanations about this phenomenon, they're even envisioning a total absence of oxygen, or anoxia. Read more for additional details and pictures about this mystery."
" And because they have no explanations about this phenomenon..."
Let me help them out here a bit then. The Oregon zone appears when the wind generates strong currents carrying nutrient-rich but oxygen-poor water from the deep sea to the surface near shore, a process called upwelling. The nutrients encourage the growth of plankton, which eventually dies and falls to the ocean floor. Bacteria there consume the plankton, using up oxygen.
No - I'm not so smart that I knew the answer, but google did - first (and several more) hit.
The Baltic sea also has the same issue. There are so many pollotants dumped into the sea than in couple tens of years we have totally dead sea in our hands.
If those fish that are dying out there aren't worth protection under the free market, then they aren't worthy of survival.
Things that are truly important to humanity's survival will be preserved by market forces. Which means someone like Outback Steakhouse will take a genuine interest in their survival and will spend the money to stop these dead zones and prevent hypoxia/anoxia from happening.
If you really want to save the fish off of Oregon's coast, then put them on the menu.
[end right wing parody]
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Quoth the summary:
They found that levels [of dissolved oxygen] were 10 to 30 times lower than normal, down to 0.5 milliliters per liter, a characteristic of hypoxia.
In other news, having low levels of dissolved glucose in the bloodstream is a characteristic of hypoglycaemia; having lots of money is a characteristic of being rich; and a complete cessation of brain function is a characteristic of death.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
She certainly could suck the air out of any room, the Oregon Coast would just be a warm-up for her.
I blame Christopher Walken and Anthony Michael Hall.
The Geek shall inherit the Earth
Could this be a result of imminent or undergoing volcanism? Perhaps a volcano is about to form or explode in the near future in the Oregon-Washington region and unleashes poisonous gasses in the sea water before unleashing its lava.
a gigantic crab and fish graveyard
I'd like to know more about these gigantic crab. Are they bigger than king crab? I love to eat crab legs.
What? You mean that it's the graveyard that's gigantic? Damn you, ambiguous English language!
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
I guess it's called the Juan de Fuca Ridge.
This dead zone is "most likely caused by underwater volcanism along the Juan De Fuca Ridge, which is about 20% volcanic along its 500 mile length. Occassional volcanic eruptions occur along the Ridge (Rift) which can create gigantic megaplumes of hot mineral water. Could be there is very little oxygen in the plumes, it most likely would have reacted with the minerals, leaving dissolved oxygen at nil."
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
Presumably someone attacked their weakpoint (needing oxygen) with massive damage (a lack of it). I love how games help us learn!
"10 to 30 times lower." What exactly does this mean? One can only guess it means 1/10th to 1/30th of the norm, but I would think a professional writer would use more precise wording...
my bedroom gets this problem after a large mexican food binge
If the article references the Christian Science Monitor, why the hell is the link to some linkjack blog at ZDNET?
/. editorship actually bother to check any of this?
Surely the original article (at CSM) should be the one linked, and not to some warmed-over plagiarised rehash at ZDNet? Do the
New mod option wanted: -1 DrunkenRambling
Where the hell are we supposed to get our Soylent Green from if the oceans die?
'nuff said.
DATABASE WOW WOW
Lets not forget that China & India are also not signees.
Thus the three most populous continents on earth are simply not concerned.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
From the article:
"This overloads the waters with nutrients and spawns large algae blooms. The algae sink, die, and decompose, in a process that sucks oxygen out of the water and the topmost layer of sediment on the bottom, where many worms and shellfish live."
Fosfate/nitrate (among others) --> Nutritions for algae --> No oxygen
The "mystery" is where the polution is coming from.
It's Ridge Racer. RIIIIDGE RAACER!
BTW, what is it with Sony and crabs?
It's always easy to blame the US for anything bad. It obviates the necessity of thinking things through.
Not that the USA is blame free, far from it. But I am amazed at what they get blamed for these days.
Informative, 5 ?
I live real close to this area, am on vacation in Lincoln City at the moment, and I'd like to say that when they say they have no explanations about this phenomenon you should not take that to mean that the annual upwelling of cold water from the bottom just off the continental shelf here is either news to anybody here or is a satisfactory explanation for what is going on here.
By the way, the part about the wind generating these currents, or currents anywhere, is wrong. Currents are generated by a combination of the earth's rotation, the uneven solar heating of the earth's surface and the underwater topologies of the world's oceans. Wind is better thought of as the atmospheric currents and the ocean current patterns clearly do NOT overlap the atmospheric currents.
OK, now, with that out of the way, the point is, nobody yet knows why everything is dead out there. Not you, Not Google, Not me, Not anybody - yet.
That said, the Monitor is usually not biased toward any fundementalist, creationist-only, everyone-else-bad viewpoint. I deride you for your blatant and closed-minded attack, sir.
Just as a heads up for the nondemocratic nations out there. In a Democracy the minority are at the mercy of the majority. If 51% of the people prefer head in the sand ignorance the 49% get the blame as well. I think Kyoto was pathetic in that it is far too little too late. Our fearless leader feels it's far too radical. Since he won two narrow elections in a row we are at his and his followers mercy. If you want to blame anyone blame Democracy and ignorance based fear not the minority that want our oil based economy to switch to a sustainable one. It's an over simplification to blame all americans for what our government does. It's the dark under belly of Democracy.
Cthulhu
cat
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/oceans/la-oceans -series,0,7842752.special
They're going to put them in their mouths, of course.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Iirc there's also a large dead area (largest uniform area in the world) in the bottom of gulf on Mexico. It's from the toxic waste and pollution by concetration of petroleum industry on Texan coast.
.. well, you know the drill. Storm alert, get some ammunition for shotgun so you can shoot food-looting african americans with national guard.
Southern states, prepare for another hurricane. Your love for 10mpg SUV's comes with a price. You weep what you
It is actually a good newspaper despite the name which refers to the "Christian Science" religious organisation which rejects modern medicine.
Our fearless leader feels it's far too radical. Since he won two narrow elections in a row we are at his and his followers mercy.
You must be talking about Clinton since the 95-0 vote against the treaty occurred in 1997, while Bush was Govenor of Texas.
That's because it's probably their fault, somehow, somewhere! And if it isn't, we'll just pretend - because there's surely something else that they're not getting credit for, or something like humanitarian aide which is getting painted in a positive light!
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Erm. China and India aren't continents, nor is the United States of America. Also the US is not one of the most populous, I believe that the EU as a whole has almost double the population of the US.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Yeah, but EU has signed. USA has not. Therefore USA likes to destroy our planet - money matters more to them.
This is nothing new. Roland Piquepaille has been submitting stories which invariably link to his own blog (which carries a pale imitaiton of the original article) for ages. There have been accusations that he is paying the slashdot editors for the service of publishing his stories. See http://www.google.com/search?q=roland.piquepaille+ site:Slashdot.org.
You obviously don't understand. We are NOT ignorant. We know. We just don't care...
Hmmmmm, an area of ocean that's completely incapable of supporting life just randomly happens to be off the US coast.
Yeah, definitely can't be the US's fault. Must be those damn Indians or Chinese! After all, they're nowhere near it!
More and more it becomes apparent that the US needs to learn some very basic thinking skills.
because of greed and stupidity.
Thanks alot, eh.
They just recently found out that high concentrates of methane hydrates are found in much shallower waters near there. That and the recent increase in undersea vulcanism might have something to do with it (my theory to be cussed or discussed). The shaking might be disturbing the hydrates, releasing even just slightly more gas, it takes cold plus pressure to keep it locked up as a hydrate. I'll ask the chemist geeks here, how dissolvable that methane is if it gets released like that, and what might happen to the oxygen levels in the nearby seawater.
... but "The US and China are the two of the three most populous continents" is even funnier.
Seriously though. Kyoto was a dead letter and everybody knew it -- look at how Europe universally welched on their quotas after signing it ("Um, oops, turns out we would have devastated our economy to make that... well, can't be having that. Oh, bad Dubya bad, you're a convinient scapegoat!") About the only people really enthusiastic about adhering to it, as opposed to playing kissy-face with their domestic Greens or greens, were the Russians, because they got to compare against their old Soviet Union pollution levels and the systemic economic collapse they've suffered in the interim has made it physically impossible for them to reach those pollution levels again. Oh, and the Chinese/Indians, who saw it as a method to restrain competitors while not having to commit to a single thing themselves.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Could this be an upswell, polution from the Columbia river, or both? When I look at the Snake river (feeds into the Columbia) all I see is a bunch of green slime where there should be water. All the runoff from unregulated dairies have turned the river into a polution zone.
geroge bush! he's the cause just like hurricanes!
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
It's nice to see that even mother nature's aquarium sometimes ends up looking like every aquarium I've ever owned.
Hmmm, that might explain the unusually large number of dead crabs I saw littering the beach around Newport when I was there earlier this summer. I figured it was the normal wash-up-and-get-roasted population, but my wife said they were way too many, and most of them looked like they were already at least "mostly dead" before they washed up.
The area off Cape Perpetua on the central Oregon coast is now a gigantic crab and fish graveyard. It was first discovered in 2002,
I have noticed something similar next to the local mall, a gigantic device graveyard called CompUSA. It's downright spooky. The floor is covered with devices, some of which are outright broken, but all of which are dying in a money starved environment. Some people have pointed to DRM, others to vague notions of Monopoly, but the "experts" in the press seem to be stumped. All but a few give these products a clean bill of health and "must have" status, but the devices die anyway. What can be causing this disaster? The only real thing in common is a proximity to Washington state. Is Washington cursed?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I wonder if this is like the die-off that everybody was horrified about in the early 90's. Turned out it was El Nino altering currents and everything went back to normal a year later
... and that's it, you know. Thanks for mentioning the fjords. You helped lead me right to this conclusion. For your assistance, I shall provide you with a daily ration of pickled herring and call you nice names like Slappy.
blah blah blah
So does this now give Oregon the title of Idaho's West Bank?
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
And Africa is a big country in the middle of the world...
Former US House candidate, TN-5
Both. The first link is to CSM. The next link is to ZD providing additional information, as the link says. Mebbe lay off the coffee/stimulants and try to be a bit less indignant and accusatory. Bitching isn't commenting. And someone modded it 5 - insightful?
This type of premature conclusion is, I believe, very damaging to those who want to have global warming taken seriously by the mainstream public (ie. Me). Leaping to the popular conclusion with no reason other than it being popular to blame frankly makes me doubt the professionalism of the researchers involved.
Maybe it's the over-logging in Oregon depleting the oxygen levels ("hypoxia" was the Word of the Day May 24th, 2004), or the number of $evil_utility_or_commercial_industry dumping toxic waste into the ocean, or perhaps if the media sweetheart "global warming" doesn't pan out, they can pin it on Saddam Hussein^d^d^d^d^d^d^d^d^d^d Bin Laden^d^d^d^d^d^d^d^d^d Iran's President whatsis name.
Whoever they are, we need to identify the culprit(s) and bring these godless killers to justice. Oh, wait, unless of course its us... in which case, market forces are sure to cause a "correction" in the system and all will be well on Wall Street once more.
Tim
Some of the "fish" found dead were Dungeness crab. Considered by some the best variety (tastewise) (they are quite good).
These go for $3-$4/lb in the local stores.
As for putting things on the menu, the best item caught around here is Chinook , but very few around right now.
Alaska salmon is plentiful but local ocean caught chinook is usually over $10/lb.
That's just a link to a Roland the Plogger blog, who doesn't understand the problem. Read the New York Times story, which has important facts the Plogger missed, like the fact that this has been happening for the past five years. The local paper, the Register-Guard, has a good story. "On the way down, the camera lens illuminates a nighttime blizzard, a flurry of broken chunks of plankton called "marine snow." This is evidence of what caused this year's hypoxia - an onslaught of nutrients brought to shallow coastal waters by wind-driven currents, whose decomposing structures suck up available oxygen."
This is no mysterious dramatic event. It happens every year, but this year, it's worse than usual, possibly because ocean currents have shifted due to weather.
He would have eaten them.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
See previous article about spring moving in Europe
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
They all died of dysentery.
Hmm, we've been dealing with this in the Gulf for a while. It's recurrant - it goes away, then comes back the next year, and is caused by too much algae, which is basically fed by nitrogen rich runoff from ground water.
The same thing happens between Cape Cod and Cape Hatteras and it's believed runoff from the factory farming of pigs may be responsible. Something I've been wondering about is runoff is responsible for the dead zone in the Gulf and it's harming fishermen out of New Orleans and other towns why don't they get together and sue the farmers upstream.
FalconShould there be a Law?
From the Register Guard...
There's nothing new about oceanic dead zone
By Terry Thompson
A so-called "dead zone" off the Oregon Coast is in the news again. According to reports, this is the fifth time in five years such a zone has developed. This year's zone is larger than those of the previous two years, and for the first time, a similar zone has been detected in the waters off of Washington state.
"Dead zone" is a catchy phrase. It brings to mind images of man-caused pollution and ecological disaster. But we should be calling this a "live zone," because it's the beginning of ocean life.
I'm basing my observations on both my undergraduate marine biology studies at Oregon State University and more than 4,000 days of firsthand experience at sea, much of it in and around the area in question. I've had several questions from people about the dead zone, about red tides, about what these two developments mean, and about whether they're related. It has convinced me that more people might be wondering about this.
During a normal year, strong northwest winds cause cold water, rich in nutrients but low in oxygen, to upwell from the deep ocean. That water from below mixes with oxygen-rich water near the surface, causing some phytoplankton growth and providing the basis for a thriving fishery and a healthy marine food chain.
When the wind dies back and currents are disrupted, this process is also disrupted. That causes too much phytoplankton growth and development of a "dead zone."
The "dead zone" is really a case of too much of a good thing, sort of like overindulging in food - your body just can't effectively process it all. The same thing happens in the ocean.
Large masses of plant growth die and decay, and in the process consume even more of the available oxygen near the sea floor. In the short term, there's too little oxygen and too much phytoplankton. The results can be dramatic and appear to be a cause for concern. Dead bottom fish litter the beaches. Crabbers have told me about pulling up hundreds of dead crabs in their gear.
Meanwhile, unusual numbers of large Dungeness crabs are turning up in the bays. They may be trying to escape the "dead zone."
But this is only part of the story.
The scientists claim this phenomenon is just a few years old. But I believe it's been occurring as long as there's been a temperate ocean. The researchers are backing up their conclusions with fishermen's logbooks dating back to the 1950s. But there's a key flaw in this.
Until recent years, crabbers weren't working the offshore waters in the summer. Until fairly recently, the salmon fleet dominated this area in the summer months, and they wouldn't have discovered any signs of these conditions. They would have simply found no fish and moved on.
I have my own memories of the 1950s. I recall seeing whiting floating in Yaquina Bay, gasping for air. This wasn't a rare occurrence. People who lived here will remember the dead fish that littered the beaches.
Another important thing to remember is that while there is loss of marine life in a relatively small area, the upwelling phenomenon is occurring along the entire coastal shelf. I believe it will prove to be healthy in the long run. Without it, we'd lose the building blocks of our nutrient-rich Northwest oceans. This is precisely what happens in El Niño years.
Most of the ocean floor in the primary "dead zone" area immediately south of Newport is a mud plain, with a rocky ridge to the north and west, a formation similar to the edge of a bowl. When these nutrients fall to the bottom, it makes the mud even richer.
In winter, following the development of the "dead zone" area, sandabs and English sole go there to reproduce. The mud is filled with little worms on which the baby fish can feed. I've observed large numbers of juvenile sole in this area in the past, and I fully expect to find abundant marine life in the "dead zone" again next winter.
Red tide is also l
I recently moved a few thousand kilometers westward and a Chinook Arch [wikipedia.org] looks quite ominous and threatening to those that haven't seen it before. It's just nature, though. I always find it amusing when eco-types freak out and fret over what are natural earth processes.
What gets me is when I read how there's a report on how an alligator or shark attacked someone or their dog in Florida. When a gator or shark attacks all of a sudden there's a swarm of panic about how there's man eating alligators or sharks. If you get into the salt water in Fl there's a very good chance there will be a shark in the water as well but most of the tyme they aren't seen. However wear a nice bright watch on your arm and that watch is an attractive beacon, especially for cudas, real live barracudas not the 'cuda car. And if you live near wetlands you may bump into a gator, which are good to eat.
FalconShould there be a Law?
How short the political memories of some folks are. Kyoto dies on Clinton's watch and Bush is left holding the bag. Just like how Clinton's solution to dealing with Osama and the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania was to lob a couple of Tomahawk missiles at a terrorist camp in Afghanistan. All Clinton did was punt the problem of international terrorism 3 years into the future, and now Bush is left holding the bag again. That's the nature of politics, though: take credit for other peoples' work, and if you fuck up badly enough just hope the next guy comes along in time to take all the blame.
Where the hell are we supposed to get our Soylent Green from if the oceans die?
Just wait until you see what those green chips are made from. Hope you like being a cannibal.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I wonder if this is like the die-off that everybody was horrified about in the early 90's. Turned out it was El Nino altering currents and everything went back to normal a year later
If you read the article you should of seen where they ruled out El Nino:
It's pretty clear El Niño is not implicated, says Thomas Powell, a UC-Berkeley oceanographer. But, he continues, there may be other large-scale changes in average atmospheric conditions that typically occur every 30 years.
FalconShould there be a Law?
This type of premature conclusion is, I believe, very damaging to those who want to have global warming taken seriously by the mainstream public (ie. Me). Leaping to the popular conclusion with no reason other than it being popular to blame frankly makes me doubt the professionalism of the researchers involved.
Did you see where Jane Lubchenco says "the culprit may be global warming. To be sure, the jury is still out on that connection". That is not a conclusion, it's a hypothsis. She just reported one possibility.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Try reading it at +4. It's even worse.
The Oxygen Destroyer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godzilla_(1954_film)
. I don't think anybody's going to hold a farm responsible for polluting the environment because they used manure for fertilizer, and the only difference between chemical fertilizers and manure is that the cheaper version is made of feces.
Actually I think that can be part of the solution. From what I understand most of the feces from the pig farms are either dumped or buried, though some gets swept away into waterways with rain. Allowing the feces to compost though it can then be used for fertilizer then chemical fertilizers wouldn't need to be used so much. Also if they were allowed freerange, they could so in one location or field one year then moved to another the following year. The second year a covercrop could be sown, then the third grains or vegetables can be growth on it, without needing more fertilizers. Actually this is how some organic farms operate but the big agrobusiness farms would probably frown on it.
FalconShould there be a Law?
That was a really stupid comeback.
Here. Let me help you make a good one. If you're going to challenge me in the future, at least be witty about it.
"Bush Lied, Fish Died!
TEH sky is falling! Oh noes!!one!13!! It's the great hypoxiaz0r! Oh wait, the hypoxiaz0r has pwned Cape Perpetua before? Oh, never mind that! Al Gore says TEH SKY IS FALLING!!! And what about those Republican oil industry shills who said they weren't sure it was caused by global warming! That's so 100% teh suck! Call Captain Planet, he'll set them straight!"
See? I even used the facts from the article itself.
If I were a neo con I could easy outdo you in critical thinking. But I'm a liberal, so I can't really do Two Year Old'ese for long.
the Christian Science Monitor? It sound like it should be a group that monitors scientists activities and silences them if they are about to make any blasphemous discoveries...
So global warming isn't a global issue anymore? Whew! Guess we'll have to call it "localized warming" or something now.
"total absence of oxygen"... then it wouldn't be water anymore? Helllloooo... H2O????
Ask yourself, what's likely to be within half a day's journey of an Oregon port? We also don't know the contributing factors to this die-off. Run-off from the US mainland or underwater volcanism might be a contributing factor. I certainly am puzzled that they are blaming "global warming" in the absence of considering other factors.
I deride you for your blatant and closed-minded attack, sir. I have a lot of respect for the CSM, but that was serious, coffee spraying out the nose funny
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Gigantic crabs give me the shivers.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
If the USA is ignorant for not signing the Kyoto agreement, then what can be said about the boisterous EU countries that signed it and don't have a snowball's chance in hell of meeting their agreed to obligations?
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
That's why everyone is so concerned. The huge amount of pure hydrogen there in combination with the oxygen from the athmosphere could cause a gigantic explosion that'd easily wipe out Oregon. All it'd take is some idiot with a box of matches.
DHS has already identified this as a perfect opportunity for terrorists and has ordered the Navy to scatter the hydrogen into the rest of the Pacific by deploying high-yield torpedoes.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Not that the USA is blame free, far from it. But I am amazed at what they get blamed for these days.
Well, during the last couple years they have really gone out of their way to destroy their reputation, both politically and socially. During the 90s many people in Germany used to look up to the States (and the image of the States as a better place was not unheard of), nowadays many people look down on them. The USA is becoming the catch-all for blame that the USSR was during the Cold War - and much of it comes from the fact that during the past few years a lot of bullshit has come from over there.
People like easy targets. The USA have made themselves a very easy one.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Organic or traditional methods of farming may not produce as much food as the new methods used in the US true. But as it is now these methods are driving small farmers off their land and into cities. That's a big reason so many cities are becoming megacities throughout the world. These mega cities create even bigger stresses on ecosystems, especially on water. Mexico City was built on wetlands but because of the demand for water from the millions who live there it is running dry. In Spain along the Med coast cities have been running dry as well. So what did the government want to do before people up in opposition? The government wanted to build dams and aquaducts from the rivers to provide water. This would of harmed the farms and ecosystems that relied on the water. This is what's happening in California right now. Northern CA has enough water but Southern CA is arid. So what do they do? They have pipelines and manmade rivers to transport water from the north to LA. This is straining the ecosystems of northern CA. The same is happening in China, water is being pumped from where there is water to where there isn't any. This is having a big impact on farms that rely on the water. With farms stressed food prices will rise. If instead of driving people off farms they were encouraged to stay on the farm then cities wouldn't mushroom in size and put added stress on resources.
Another thing is the chemical inputs used for "modern" farming. Do you know what is used to make the manmade chemicals? Petroleum. Petroleum is used to make fertilizer, herbicides, and pesticides. Then there's the petroleum needed to transport all of this. High petro prices means food price rise too. As is it the system is not sustainable.
FalconShould there be a Law?
"This is no mysterious dramatic event. It happens every year, but this year, it's worse than usual, possibly because ocean currents have shifted due to weather."
That seems intuitively backwards, as if I was being asked to believe that the trees make the wind by moving back and forth.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/oceans/la-oceans -series,0,7842752.special
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
China & India are also not signees.
Bullshit
How can utter bullshit like this get to +5?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
hmm, that does seem convincing. I got my info from an article when I was researching my response.
However, the link at the bottom of your Wikipedia page yields this :
"China, India, and other developing countries were exempt from the requirements of the Kyoto Protocol"
It is not clear in that article why the past tense is used rather than "are exempt" perhaps the situation has changed.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Not signing a practically worthless treaty does not mean a nation is not concerned.
Kyoto Protocol has little power to actually address the problem.
China was asked, as the second largest contributor of CO2 emissions, after the Kyoto protocol went into effect, what measures it was going to take. It's answer? Call on developed countries (which China is not) to reduce emissions and sign the treaty.
...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
Nations with different development statuses had different obligations & timelines under kyoto.
But that doesn't change the fact that they signed it.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Oh come on.
And give up such a great opportunity to pontificate about how bad civilization, industry, people, capitalists, globalization, multinations, the Republicans, Microsoft, Bush,(what have I forgotten now...) are for the world? Just because we might not understand what is actually going on?
Dream on. But people WILL forget it as soon as the next opportunity comes along, so maybe that is okay after all.