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Toronto Hydro Launches Free Wi-Fi Network

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the everything's-bigger-in-canada dept.

k. writes to let us know about the launch Wednesday of Toronto Hydro's city-wide Wi-Fi network, at 6 square kilometers said to be the largest in North America by the time rollout is complete in December. The service will be free for 6 months and then will cost $29 (Canadian) per month, $10 for a day, or $5 for an hour. Toronto Hydro gets around fears of the Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse by requiring use of one's cell-phone number as the user ID.

116 of 155 comments (clear)

  1. Oh to hack.. by Siberwulf · · Score: 2, Funny

    Toronto Hydro gets around fears of the Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse by requiring use of one's cell-phone number as the user ID.

    Oh to hack that database... It would probably be better just to submit your SSN in plaintext.

    1. Re:Oh to hack.. by geoffspear · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oddly enough, many Toronto residents for some reason don't qualify for a SSN.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    2. Re:Oh to hack.. by Siberwulf · · Score: 1

      Give it about 20 years, everyone in the world will have a SSN ;-)

      </propaganda>

    3. Re:Oh to hack.. by Malc · · Score: 1

      Cellphone? What a pain in the arse. I only got my first mobile phone 18 months ago, and am thinking of getting rid of it. They're more a nuisance and unnecessary cost than anything. I tried using my laptop at the local Second Cup, which has one of these HotSpots. They too require a mobile number (Rogers, Telus, Bell, etc). Of course, it wouldn't accept mine, I suspect because I use pay-as-you-go (cheaper for me than a regular plan). Anyway, for the cost, I will stick with my 5Mbs DSL with static IP... when I hit the streets of Toronto, I like to leave the technology at home and enjoy life a bit.

    4. Re:Oh to hack.. by lynx_user_abroad · · Score: 1
      Give it about 20 years, everyone in the world will have a SSN ;-)

      Everyone in the world already has an SSN, they just haven't all been notified yet.

      --

      The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.

    5. Re:Oh to hack.. by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > Oddly enough, many Toronto residents for some reason don't qualify for a SSN.

      This is true. They have to make do with SINs.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    6. Re:Oh to hack.. by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1

      We're gonna have to move to SSN2 (point oh) to support that many.

      It'll take twenty years just for Democrats and Republicans to agree on the new number format. Then they'll have to approve a shinier--I mean harder to forge--card, adding another several years.

      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    7. Re:Oh to hack.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      So *you're* the guy who goes around explaining jokes. Speaking of which, I've been wondering the meaning of the chicken crossing the road one. Can you do that?

    8. Re:Oh to hack.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      fowl play

    9. Re:Oh to hack.. by Jambon · · Score: 1
      Canadian's have SINs (Social Insurance Numbers) which is a much better acronym.

      I guess that explains why we're always apologizing...

    10. Re:Oh to hack.. by RexRhino · · Score: 1

      No, they qualify for a SIN number, which is a far more appropriate acronym for the mark of the beast! :)

    11. Re:Oh to hack.. by Minwee · · Score: 1

      That's because they're all living in SIN.

  2. Whoo. by tygerstripes · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Hmm. Impressive? The City of Norfolk in Norwich, UK, would beg to differ. To whit:
    a 4km radius from County Hall, as well as key sites to the east and west of the city: Broadland Business Park , University of East Anglia , Norwich Science Park and Norfolk & Norwich University Hospital. In addition 28 hotspots in South Norfolk will be enabled shortly.
    That's pretty decent coverage for a back-water city in UK farmer country, and it's free. Kind of throws some context into this article, I reckon.
    --
    Meta will eat itself
    1. Re:Whoo. by Yst · · Score: 1

      New Orleans' wireless coverage is similarly quite decent. And free, and anonymous, and fairly successfully blankets the downtown. Having used it on a recent trip down to NO, I'd be delighted to have something similar here in Toronto. This, however - temporarily free, spotty, non-anonymous coverage exclusively over the downtown core (excluding on the periphery even some areas would generally be considered "downtown" here) - isn't exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for in Toronto municipal wireless.

      --
      Karma: Chameleon (comes and goes)
    2. Re:Whoo. by Malc · · Score: 1

      Norfolk's a county, not a city. Most of those places you mentioned are in one place. I went to the UEA (University of Extreme Apathy) myself. More interesting is the coverage south of the city, which when I was there, is getting a little too far east for prime UEA student territory. Anyway, what do you mean by "South Norfolk" - they have coverage in Thetford too?

      ANyway, look at the coverage maps. It's hardly an 8km diameter around County Hall. County Hall to UEA is probably 4km at most, and the coverage doesn't go the otherway.

    3. Re:Whoo. by tygerstripes · · Score: 1

      Ach, that Norfolk/Norwich thing has always been a blind spot for me; sorry. However, the rest was a blockquote from the site - I saw the maps too, which made me skeptical of the claims, but honestly I just remember reading about this when I saw the /. article and thinking "What the hell? How is this impressive?". It's hardly news when incremental progressions of that magnitude have been going on for the last couple of years all over the developed world. I just wanted to put it in perspective.

      --
      Meta will eat itself
    4. Re:Whoo. by Raistlin77 · · Score: 1

      From the article:

      ...at 6 square kilometers said to be the largest in North America by the time rollout is complete in December...

      You must have missed that North America part...

    5. Re:Whoo. by Malc · · Score: 1

      Indeed, it sounds like they're making it sound better than it is. Anyway, I'm three streets from where the final coverage will end, but no sour grapes here. With these 100 year old buildings and their thick walls, it's hard to get any kind of long range coverage. The Second Cup is probably about 50m from here and I rarely even see it in Network Stumbler when I'm sitting outside in my yard... let alone sitting indoors. So we shall have to see how well this thing works!

    6. Re:Whoo. by p0tat03 · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that Toronto probably has a MUCH higher population density than a backwater UK town.

    7. Re:Whoo. by rtaylor · · Score: 1

      6km^2 isn't too bad for a proof of concept installation.

      Once tested and debugged it will be deployed over about 600km^2.

      --
      Rod Taylor
    8. Re:Whoo. by Malc · · Score: 1

      I'm from the UK (and went to Uni in Norwich). I now live in Toronto. This place is a mecca of space compared with that over-populated island. My guess would be that Toronto's downtown core has a half or a quarter the population density of Norwich. Even the small houses here are like mansions compared with the 2-up 2-down terraced house I lived in with 2 other friends in Norwich.

  3. Disposable cell phones... by denis-The-menace · · Score: 4, Informative

    If I wanted to use this network for bad things I would just have to get a Disposable cell phone and go from there.

    --
    Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    1. Re:Disposable cell phones... by Thansal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I worked in RS for a year or so.

      Walk in, ask for prepaid phone, give false info (no ID checked), pay with cash, walk out. I have sold phones to people I am relativly sure were ussing them for illicit goals, however I can't simply not sell them the phone as that is illegal :D

      On top of that msot prepaid phones can have their phone numbers changed with little or no hastle!

      If that isn't disposable, I don't know what is.

      --
      Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
    2. Re:Disposable cell phones... by orasio · · Score: 1

      Stolen cellphones are a dime a dozen where I live. Well, they are around five hundred pesos, something like 22 canadian dollars.

    3. Re:Disposable cell phones... by nojomofo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shhhh..... Don't say that too loud. What they need (and using cell phone number provides) is the appearance of preventing the four horsemen from being able to use the service for their goals. It's a nice, big loophole for those who actually want privacy and freedom to slip through.

    4. Re:Disposable cell phones... by mabba18 · · Score: 1

      Well, you can walk into many a Canadian store, and walk out with a Virgin Mobile handset for $50CDN, paid for with cash. Activation is done on the internet with no information needed.

      Disposable? Dunno. Anonymous? Definatly.

      --
      The third most important thing I have learned in life: Squeeze anything hard enough and it eventually makes a noise.
    5. Re:Disposable cell phones... by Raistlin77 · · Score: 1

      however I can't simply not sell them the phone as that is illegal

      By most state laws in the US, any retailer can refuse service to any customer for any reason whatsoever. The only person you have to answer to for refusing a customer service is your manager, however, I would think that the customer providing fraudulent credentials is certainly a valid reason in any manager's eyes.

    6. Re:Disposable cell phones... by Irvu · · Score: 1

      No not without any reason. There are clearly defined reasons for which you cannot refuse someone service (e.g. the color of their skin). Moreover as I understand it, you cannot legally get away with refusing people ad-hoc. If nothing else it opens you up to very extensive lawsuits. Some retailers post signs on their doors claiming "we reserve the right to refuse service" but again that does not protect them if they refuse for capricious or apparently illegal reasons. In that event they would face any one of a number of problems.

      This is especially true of national chains that cannot really be open to having different standards in each store. For that reason they often establish very homogenious and restrictive rules for their employees.

      Your are correct in that providing fraudulent credentials would be reason to refuse but then again most stores don't require credentials (or have any legal basis for demanding them) when purchasing disposable cellphones.

      While one might "be sure someone was using them for illegal goals" the assurance of one person is not proof, and unless you want to live in a society where being suspected of a crime is a crime (in which case I suspect you are a criminal so go turn yourself in) then it is better to require standards of legal proof and to force others to adhere to it. If not then we end up in a place where noone can do anything outside the norm without getting severely punished. Such situations are incompatible with sustainable human societies.

    7. Re:Disposable cell phones... by really? · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      Here you go, http://toronto.craigslist.org/ele/203441664.html. Don't even need to go near a store, and, possibly, have a security camera pointed at you.

      --

      "Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
    8. Re:Disposable cell phones... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You can refuse to sell anything to ANYONE. It's called the right to refuse service. Unless you already had the money put in your drawer, you're under NO obligation to hand over anything. And I did work at RS. Thank god I don't work there anymore.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  4. Way to expensive! by InsaneProcessor · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't touch that network for the price they want. Way to pricey!

    --

    Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
    1. Re:Way to expensive! by zivan56 · · Score: 1

      I pay $34 for a fixed line 6-8Mbps connection and 50gb bidirectional, why would I want to save $5 and get a crappy connection instead?

    2. Re:Way to expensive! by d_jedi · · Score: 1

      If you live within the area of coverage, buy a "wifi modem" (aka. a bridge.. geez. why can't they call things what they are?).. then $29/month for high speed wireless access is pretty damn good (assuming the speed is reasonable.. )

      Why, it's conceivable - when the area of coverage expands (not sure how big it'll get) that you could ditch your cell phone and use the wifi connection with a PDA instead..

      That said, I live in the suburbs.. so this won't help me at all once they start charging for it..

      --
      I am the maverick of Slashdot
    3. Re:Way to expensive! by zivan56 · · Score: 1

      I can already do this, thanks to my local "Linksys" community ;) I guess for some people there will be benefits, but with cheap access to computers/free wifi everywhere, I don't see why anybody would pay for this. Not to mention the headache it will cause with information being transmitted in a non-encrypted form (leading to all sorts of problems)

  5. I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Toronto Hydro gets around fears of the Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse by requiring use of one's cell-phone number as the user ID.

    So for people who rely on a land-line telephone, it isn't 30 CAD per month; it's 60, including the cost of a cell phone. (Or am I completely off about what cell phone contracts cost in Canada?)

    1. Re:I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by Thansal · · Score: 1

      the cellphone thing is a one time entry, it is just so they can send you a text message with your name/pw. and $30 a month for (I am assuming) broadband speeds is not all that bad....

      --
      Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
    2. Re:I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by Yst · · Score: 1

      Cells are as little as $20CDN/mo, but $30CDN/mo is more typical (and typical of your mainstream Bell cell). My question, though, would be: accessing the network on the initial free basis, what's to stop people from simply using the cell numbers of just any other person at all but themselves for the sake of anonymity? Nothing, presumably? And if so, what's the point?

      --
      Karma: Chameleon (comes and goes)
    3. Re:I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by mabba18 · · Score: 1

      If you put $100 on the phone, it is good for a year, which works out to $8.30/month. Possible the least expensive cell in Canada

      --
      The third most important thing I have learned in life: Squeeze anything hard enough and it eventually makes a noise.
    4. Re:I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by mabba18 · · Score: 1

      Shop around, you can get a handset for $50CDN, including $10 airtime.

      --
      The third most important thing I have learned in life: Squeeze anything hard enough and it eventually makes a noise.
    5. Re:I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by lotrtrotk · · Score: 1

      I would guess it's the same basic idea as most website account signups. The number you give them probably recieves a confirmation message. If you don't reply, you don't get access.

    6. Re:I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by creepynut · · Score: 1

      That's only if you don't use it. It still costs 25c/min for first 5 minutes of the day...
      15c/min for the rest of the day, and Long distance is another story.

      Of course, it's nice that it's free for call display, voice messaging, receiving text messages.

      Still, I have a Virgin Mobile phone, but I'd never use it for a full conversation.

    7. Re:I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by Jonny_eh · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't forget the $500-$2000 setup fee for people who don't have a computer.

    8. Re:I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by crabpeople · · Score: 1

      "So for people who rely on a land-line telephone"

      I doubt people who just have a landline phone would need wireless internet in downtown toronto. Theres not many old people with laptops crusing the CBD are there?

      If you haven't lived in toronto, the area they are talking about covering is pretty much all commerical. There are very few residential buildings in that area. The ones that are residential, start in the rent range of $2000+ per month. I doubt someone who rented a 2000 dollar condo would not have a cel phone.

      --
      I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
    9. Re:I have a land line, you insensitive clod! by fiendy · · Score: 1

      You don't really know downtown Toronto that well do you?

      Every self-important businessman (or woman) walks around with their face glued to a blackberry or cellphone (or uses a bluetooth headset).

      This is basically the downtown core and financial district. Everyone has a cellphone.

  6. Four horsemen??? by ryanhos · · Score: 1

    terrorists, pedophiles, drug dealers, and money launderers huh? I'd take money launderers over murderers any day of the week! We're saying it's worse to cover up a bit of white collar crime than it is to kill someone?

    --
    "I threw up my hands in disgust and wondered if it had been such a good idea to have eaten my hands in the first place."
    1. Re:Four horsemen??? by geoffspear · · Score: 1

      To be fair, it's a bit tricky to murder someone over the Internet.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    2. Re:Four horsemen??? by be-fan · · Score: 1

      Money laundering is associated with organized crime.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    3. Re:Four horsemen??? by orasio · · Score: 1

      White collar crimes are no better than the other kind.
      Where I live, some bankers (Peirano, Rohm, and others, in uruguayan banks Comercial, Montevideo, and more), stole some hundred million dollars, and became one of the cause why the country entered a several year financial crisis, halting development, and effectively harming infrastructure. That has a social effect, and physically harms people, and can even kill them, like in the cases where "white collar criminals" steal from humanitarian help.
      Just because consequences are not easily seen, it doesn't mean that white collar criminals are not actual criminals. Commonly, their effect in society as a whole can be much worse.

      Money laundering was just part of their crimes, but money launderers in general are not to be regarded as harmless.

      Of course, money laundering is always related to other illicit activities, too.

    4. Re:Four horsemen??? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      "Associated with" is a very convenient line of argument. It can be used to justify denouncing just about anything you wish.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    5. Re:Four horsemen??? by be-fan · · Score: 1

      I don't mean money launderers have tenuous connections to organized crime. I mean the act of money laundering is one that is part of the list of illegal activities carried out by organized crime outfits.

      The large-scale, international money-laundering operations that exist do so to fund organized crime. Much work in the financial sector deals with trying to detect these money-laundering transactions through the international financial grid. That's why money laundering is one of the four-horsemen. It's not referring to small-scale laundering carried out by white-collar criminals, but the large-scale laundering that fuels criminal organizations.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    6. Re:Four horsemen??? by zxnos · · Score: 1

      c'mon dude, it happens.

      --
      always mosh clockwise
  7. Quick note about cell number ussage by Thansal · · Score: 4, Informative

    from TFA # Enter your mobile phone number in the space provided. # You will instantly receive a text message containing your username and password. # Enter your username and password. # Start surfing. # Your username and password will remain valid for free service until March 2007 Your cell number is not your ID, they are just ussing a cell number much like you would use an E-Mail for registering for a forum or some such, Kinda like how GMail is giving out accounts (or was, I don't remember if it is still up). This is not designed as a counter to the 4 horsemen scare, infact it would be horribly easy for any one to obtain as many anon logins as they wanted via use of prepaid phones and changing the hpone numbers (something even prepaid accounts let you do).

    --
    Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
  8. Account activation details by LaughingCoder · · Score: 1

    FTA:
    To gain access to One Zone WiFi follow the easy steps below.

    Open your WiFi enabled device Use the network connections manager on your WiFi enabled device to view available wireless networks. Select the SSID One Zone_High Speed Internet Open your web browser and visit the new user page. Enter your mobile phone number in the space provided. You will instantly receive a text message containing your username and password. Enter your username and password. Start surfing. Your username and password will remain valid for free service until March 2007

    So what is to stop people from giving their username/password combos to their friends, or posting them in public places? Currently it's free, so maybe it's no big deal, but how about when it's a pay-for service? I wonder if a particular username can only be logged in on one device at a time? Or perhaps the username/password expires periodically (monthly if you don't pay your bill, and at the end of the "free" period in March 2007)?

    --
    The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    1. Re:Account activation details by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      Access control is most likely going to be handled by a RADIUS-like system. With that sort of system, you can restrict the login instance, so once the user is logged in, no other logins can be made under the same credentials.

      -b

    2. Re:Account activation details by PhraudulentOne · · Score: 1

      I wonder if a particular username can only be logged in on one device at a time?

      Yes, I imagine that is the case. These guys would be ridiculous not to have something like that set up. This is how I have my hotspots configured.

      What I am wondering is what is the protection mechanism against running a script that sends mad txt messages out to random phones (by trying to sign up new accounts repeatedly). I wonder if Toronto Hydro would be getting a large bill for 10,000 txt messages sent out every 30 minutes.

      --
      You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
  9. What is their target market going to really be? by FreakerSFX · · Score: 1

    I suppose the people who might buy into this are those with mobile wifi devices who have cash to burn. The whole blackberry-type crowd doesn't need this service and for home users it's too pricey. You can get broadband DSL or cable in Canada for $29 per month. It seems kind of niche to me.

    --
    This sig contains a manual self-destruct. Kindly please put your foot through your monitor in 8 seconds.
    1. Re:What is their target market going to really be? by MrJynxx · · Score: 1

      There's a ton of condos in and around the area coverage, now that being said most condos have T1's running into the building so access from you condo isn't an issue.

      However, a lot of people in this area are pretty active and tend to wander around the downtown core a lot so really it'll let these people take their laptop and goto the local coffee shop and surf they're lives away..

      But they are already having issues with users in office buildings, more specifically offices with reflective glass. There's even a Royal Bank building that has a trace amounts of gold in the glass to have a gold reflection which doesn't let ANY radio in (at least not until they increase the signal strength).

      I'm personally going to give it a try this week to see how good it really is.

      MrJynx

    2. Re:What is their target market going to really be? by period3 · · Score: 1

      I don't know of any providers that offer $29.99 /month broadband without requiring either cable or a phone line. And, even if they did, it would only work from my residence. With the Wi-Fi network, I can go anywhere in the downtown core and have access.

      Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

    3. Re:What is their target market going to really be? by Rhipf · · Score: 1

      I am assuming you must live in Toronto. Unfortunately Toronto isn't Canada. As someone that happens to live at the other end of Ontario I can tell you that not everyone has access to DSL or cable (at any price). Some of us in Canada have to put up with dial-up service that will max out at a lowly 26.4k. If this service were available to me $29 would seem like a steal.

  10. Secured at all? by sherpajohn · · Score: 1

    I cannot see anywhere in the article (or the original site itself) where they are using any encryption whatsoever, it looks kinda unsecure to me. Yeah, the article says its as risky as wired access, but AFAIK no one is tapping my DSL line ;)

    --

    Going on means going far
    Going far means returning
    1. Re:Secured at all? by greed · · Score: 1

      Ummmm.

      If you need an encrypted connection, use an encrypted protocol; don't rely on the media to be secure. Doesn't everything know how to do TLS SMTP, IMAP, and POP3 these days? And https has been around for almost as long as http.

      Or if you really need wire security, here's a thought: buy a service that provides wire security. Don't expect it from city-wide wireless, just as you shouldn't expect that sort of security from any radio communications.

  11. Free? by Otter · · Score: 4, Funny
    Toronto Hydro Launches Free Wi-Fi Network

    As if things weren't complicated enough, now we have free-as-in-speech, free-as-in-beer, and free-as-in-$5/hour..

    Incidentally, if a digitalnetizengeezerologism like "The Four Horsemen" has caught on so poorly that you need to link to some netidinoWiredsaur's email from 1995, it's probably not worth hanging on to.

    --
    What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
    1. Re:Free? by Chacham · · Score: 1

      and free-as-in-$5/hour..

      Almost as good as Comcast's "unlimited" usage.

      --
      Have you read my journal today?
  12. $10 a day, what a deal by aplusjimages · · Score: 1

    Does this sound a little steep to anyone? If I was on a business trip it would be more feesible to go with the monthly plan.

    --
    Can I bum a sig?
  13. Re:Disposable cell phones...useless to reply to AC by non · · Score: 2, Informative

    no, the (grand)parent is correct. i'm curioius, what do you know about 'anywhere in the world'? in fact disposable handhelds have been available for at least ten years in countries that are generally referred to as 3rd world. take chile for example, or mexico.

    perhaps you followed the vodaphone scandal in greece this spring, whereby telephone network software was hacked in order to route communication to one of a number of 'disposable' phones? you can buy them at tag sales; do you really think that they're going to ask for your ID at a tag sale?

    --
    ...vividly encapsulates that post-Watergate/pre-punk/coked-up moment when you could trust no one, least of all yourself.
  14. Doing the Math by neonprimetime · · Score: 1

    $29 (Canadian) per month, $10 for a day, or $5 for an hour.

    $29 per month = $29 for one month
    $10 for a day = approx $300 per month
    $5 an hour = approx $3600 per month

    Agreed, $10 and $5 both sound steep!

    1. Re:Doing the Math by denis-The-menace · · Score: 1

      It this was MoneyMark or a credit card company then we would call it "price gouging".

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    2. Re:Doing the Math by bestinshow · · Score: 1

      If you're in Toronto for under 3 days though, the $10/day is acceptable.

      If you're going to check the internet for an hour every other day over the course of a week, the $5 a day is acceptable.

      However I suspect that most people will go for the safe $29 option. So if they only use it for 4 hours over their visit duration, the company has made an extra $9. If the per hour and per day fees were set at a reasonable level, then more people would go for them, thus possibly reducing the income to the company. $3/hr and $6/day seems a bit more reasonable though.

    3. Re:Doing the Math by Jonavin · · Score: 1

      $10/day is less than what most hotel charges for access, so I think that price-point is just about right.

      The per-hour price seems a bit high though. Isn't Internet cafe prices about $2-3 pre hour? And that includes the use of their computer (albeit, a computer that's potentially full of spyware and key loggers).

      I think $2 is more appropriate for an hourly rate. However, if you look at what the cell companies are charging for data access, $5 an hour isn't overly "inflated".

  15. Just to clarify... by k4_pacific · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Toronto Hydro is the power company, not the water company. Just in case you were wondering.

    --
    Unknown host pong.
    1. Re:Just to clarify... by kripkenstein · · Score: 3, Funny

      Toronto Hydro is the power company, not the water company. Just in case you were wondering.

      Electricity, water, whatever. Just as long as we are clear that the internet is, in fact, a series of pipes.

      Sure, here we have wi-fi for part of the way, but after that it's pipes galore.

  16. Something for the 3rd world to emulate... by bogaboga · · Score: 1

    I know Toronto Hydro is not the first entity to use electricity lines and WIFI as a means of acessing the internet.

    What I am saying is that poor nations of the world, with old school telephone lines that are non existent or so bad, could use their electricity lines to provide internet access. The number of electricity users in these countries is always greater than landline users.

    These folks can count on "friendly" Canada and Toronto Hydro for lessons in setup.

    1. Re:Something for the 3rd world to emulate... by conteXXt · · Score: 1

      Are they really using the power lines for the transmission?

      I seem to recall Hydro having a very extensive fibre network.

      They plan to roll out smart meters using (you guessed it fibre)
      and piggybacking wired access to homes down the road soon too.

      Anyone know the details?

      --
      The truth about Led Zep should never be told on /. (Karma suicide ensues)
    2. Re:Something for the 3rd world to emulate... by greatclare · · Score: 1

      Actually, they aren't broadcasting internet from the wires. They are using the lampposts that the wires are on to hold a router. Every 5th post or something close that has an unlabeled box on it to broadcast WiFi.

  17. Yes there are! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Where I live... in a socialistic country in the nothern part of Europe, you can get a GSM-phone and/or a SIM-card (with a phone number) without showing any ID-card whatsoever, completely legally. Just walk into the government-owned shops and get it over the desk. The prepaid card may not work in USA/Canada though.

  18. Four horsemen? by novus+ordo · · Score: 1

    terrorists, pedophiles, drug dealers, and money launderers, oh my!

    --
    "You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
  19. So is it free or not? by Wayne247 · · Score: 1

    Free at 29,95$ per month is not so free in my book. Way to mislead with the title there, poster!

    1. Re:So is it free or not? by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      It's free for now, but it will eventually cost $29.95/mo.

  20. Free for limited time by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It should be noted that it is only free for the initial trial period. Then, if experience of other city Wi-Fi solutions is anything to go by, then the hourly rate will be more than a days worth of home DSL.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:Free for limited time by Khuffie · · Score: 1

      Thank you for stating what's already in the summary? And ya, the hourly rate is expensive, but the monthly rate is $29 / month.

    2. Re:Free for limited time by bidule · · Score: 1
      It should be noted that it is only free for the initial trial period. Then, if experience of other city Wi-Fi solutions is anything to go by, then the hourly rate will be more than a days worth of home DSL.

      Wow! Nice trolling. Apples and oranges.

      <sarcasm>
      I am sure that if you could rent a DSL by the hour, you'd pay more in a day than in a month of Hydro Wi-Fi. Damn them DSL provider, them trying to rip you off!
      </sarcasm>

      Another proof that stoopid moderators exist.
      --
      ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
  21. Free? I call BS.... by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Its free for the first 6 months then they charge you 29$..... Last I checked both Bell and Rogers both have a 3 Months "Free" then bend you over a fence policy also. My definition of "Free" must be different than other peoples. I thought it meant something you didn't have to pay for, ever. Really because as soon as that "ever" kicks in, it ain't really free anymore, is it?

    Anyway still pretty cool though, good for Hydro and TO. Wee!

  22. Marketing Buttwipes by jo42 · · Score: 1

    How does "city-wide" equal 6 sq. km?

    In Toronto, 6 sq. km is a small fraction of the city.

    This is NOT "city-wide".

    Fscking Liars.

    1. Re:Marketing Buttwipes by rikkards · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah but the way Torontonians talk, they are Canada so it would be equivalent as "City-wide" :)

    2. Re:Marketing Buttwipes by canadiangoose · · Score: 2, Informative

      They've definately got the downtown core covered. Besides, it's my understanding that this is just the first phase of the network, and that the coverage will expand to include the entire Greater Toronto Area, suburbs and all. The Ontario provincial governement has legislated that all homes be equiped with "smart metres" that bill the consumer for elictricity at different rates based on the time of day. Smart metres require two-way communication with the power company, and the wifi network is being put up to facilitate that communication. Being able to sell internet access to people is just an added bonus. Heck, I was hoping that because the network was being put up to satisfy a legal requirement on the part of the hydro company, and it is technically paid for already through my electricity bill, that it would be free. Oh well. It ain't free, but it's advertised to be much faster than I had though and I'm keen to try it. Here's a link that talks about the legislation. It's from Hamilton, not Toronto, but whatever. The legislation regarding the smart metres is the same. http://www.bbwexchange.com/publications/page1263-2 065753.asp

      --
      Never eat more than you can lift -- Miss Piggy
  23. Your account expires if not topped up by tepples · · Score: 1
    If you get pay as you go, a crap phone is about $70, and the minimum cards are usually about $15. So, for a one time fee

    At least in the United States, a prepaid account can no longer place or receive calls if it has not been "topped up" in the last x days. Then, assuming we're still in Canadian dollars, it's $70 + $45/mo including monthly top-up cards. Or are network operators forbidden to expire accounts this way in Canada?

    1. Re:Your account expires if not topped up by aoeuid · · Score: 1

      At least in the United States, a prepaid account can no longer place or receive calls if it has not been "topped up" in the last x days. Then, assuming we're still in Canadian dollars, it's $70 + $45/mo including monthly top-up cards. Or are network operators forbidden to expire accounts this way in Canada?

      $10 / month is the minimum with Rogers Wireless, one of the three major companies here in Ontario. If you don't pay, you lose your credit at first, but not the number itself for another month or two.

  24. No physical possession of phone, no password. by tepples · · Score: 1
    what's to stop people from simply using the cell numbers of just any other person at all but themselves for the sake of anonymity?

    Because then somebody else would receive the SMS containing the password to the network, not you. But for one thing, this invite system (also used by Gmail) doesn't discourage nigga stole my phone. For another, the question remains: Why can't land-line phones receive SMS?

  25. PDX mo betta by Killshot · · Score: 1

    Portland, OR. is getting 134 sq miles of free wifi. Slower speeds will be ad supported, faster speeds you can pay for.

    Much better sounding project than America's hat is trying for.

  26. Re:$30? by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Those are Canadian dollars, they're not worth much in real money. 10$CAD a day or 5$CAD and hour is still insane though.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  27. 3 days of service = 1 month? by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

    So if I buy 3 days of service, or 6 discontiguous hours of service, I could've just as easily bought the entire month? Just give out the monthly fee, and use the savings of managing those other plans to offer it cheaper!

    --
    stuff |
  28. I've tried the service by ddurdle · · Score: 1

    I tried the One Zone service yesterday from Queens and University. I didn't need to authenticate (didn't have to create a user account or provide my cell phone number). I just connected as you would to any free unsecure hot spot.

  29. Re:$30? by ddurdle · · Score: 1

    Most pay-for-use wifi spots in Toronto are $8/hour or $15/day.

  30. "largest" in north america? by kbaud · · Score: 2, Informative
    Maybe the reporter hasn't done much research on wifi. There are several municipal networks in north america that are much larger than 6 square km. Maybe they meant the program was larger in some other aspect?

    Google brought up a Business Week article with the top 10 city networks. Some are over 100 sq miles in size:

    http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/08/muni_wifi/ index_01.htm

    1. Re:"largest" in north america? by rtaylor · · Score: 1

      This is just a proof of concept test. In 2 to 3 years the network should be about 600 sq km.

      Toronto Hydro is deploying the network so they can use it for meter reading. The fact that other municipal services and retail uses are available is a bonus.

      --
      Rod Taylor
  31. Re:$30? by MrJynxx · · Score: 1

    huh Canadian dollar isn't worth much in "real money". If your referring to USD, it's costing you guys almost .91cents for one of our dollars which is the best it's been since the 70's. :)

    MrJynx

  32. Who Writes These Titles? by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    The service will be free for 6 months and then will cost $29 (Canadian) per month

    I'd hardly call that free.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  33. Fred e-zone is still Free by Graemee · · Score: 1

    http://www.fred-ezone.com/coverage.php And it does a fair bit of the city too.

  34. Misleading headine: This network isn't free. by windowpain · · Score: 1

    It's going to cost $29 a month. Like a lot of services they'll offer a free trial, in this case for six months.

    Saying this network is free is like saying that Crest toothpaste is free because Procter and Gamble mailed you a free sample--or saying that cars are free because the salesperson offers you a free test drive.

    --
    Insert witty sig here.
  35. Why would I have cell phone by refriedchicken · · Score: 1

    With this WiFi coverage I wouldn't a cell phone. I rarely travel that far from my house and would just carry my cordless IP phone with me...

  36. Correction: The Four *current* horsemen by jj_gallo · · Score: 1

    "terrorists, pedophiles, drug dealers, and money launderers"

    Remember when it used to be blacks, gays, jews and communists? Or when it was alcohol, nudity / skinny dipping, women voting, and comic books?

    Don't worry, I'm sure a new set of of bugaboos will be comin' around the corner.

  37. no cell phone by tedpearson · · Score: 1

    I don't have a cell phone, you insensitive clod!

  38. Re:NOT city wide coverage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The server is 6 sq. km now. It will grow to include everything between the 427 and the DVP on the east and west and between the 401 and the lake by December. We had Toronto Hydro in to talk to us about their services two months ago and they showed us their coverage map.

  39. first city in Chile with Wifi by andres007 · · Score: 1

    the city of salamanca in Chile just enabled free wifi for the entire city of 25,000. This is in spanish. http://www.salamanca.cl/wifi/salamancavuela.htm

  40. Problem connecting by DigitalDragon · · Score: 1

    I live in Toronto, and have actually tried to connect to this service quite a few times this morning.

    Everytime I get "There was an error joining the AirPort network "One Zone_High Speed Internet"" (I am using MacBook Pro, by the way).

    Has anyone been able to establish a connection today?

    --
    http://dtum.livejournal.com
  41. Your cel lnumber is your ID by kdawson · · Score: 1

    For the first (free) 6 months, you can't change your user ID or password, according to the FAQ in the linked article. They plan to let you, later on.

  42. Re:NOT city wide coverage! by Franciscan · · Score: 1

    mod this guy up, please. He's right. This is not very significant, and TFA calls it "city wide". The plans don't call for city-wide. The City of Toronto is huge. 6 square km in the downtown core is not the world's largest Wi-Fi outdoor mesh. The Google wifi freenet is much bigger, and permanently free. No big news here. Wifi on the TTC Subway lines would be wonderful. Might make me a rider again, if I could Surf the Web instead of Commuting in my Car. W

  43. Re:Focus by PhraudulentOne · · Score: 1

    Toronto Hydro has a LOT of experience doing this. Not necessarily with Wireless Access, but that's not exactly the most difficult thing to figure out. Toronto Hydro has a HUGE data network, and many smart people taking care of it. I know because I've met with several of them, and discussed their network design/implementation.

    I do agree that they should be repaying their debt, and hopefully they will when classy business folk from out of town show up and are willing to pay whatever it takes to have WiFi access.

    --
    You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
  44. Re:NOT city wide coverage! by PhraudulentOne · · Score: 1

    This was accurate a couple of years ago, but perhaps not today.

    They have Motorola Canopy radios stuck on the CN tower facing the waterfront. At the watrfront, I don't know whether they sell you Subscriber Units for access, or whether they have one set up, and then plug that into a wireless router to provide access for the marina. I know the marina had wireless access at one point though...

    --
    You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
  45. Re:$30? by ocelotbob · · Score: 1

    Still quite expensive. Anaheim's similar network is 20-30% cheaper, and it covers about the same area at this point.

    --

    Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses

  46. Largest in NVA? WTF? by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    I find that hard to believe... the tiny city where I live has a WiFi network at least 5 times that size.

    Look at the coverage area, then look at the Wikipedia entry - 131 square km in the city. The WiFi covers at least 25% of the city, or 33 square KM.

    The only way this Toronto network could be called the "largest" would be if it was by population livig in the blanketed area. Not much of an achievement IMO.

  47. Re:$30? by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Oops, sorry, I forgot we've had Republicans in the White House, and they're determined to make the US dollar the weakest currency in the world (and doing a damned fine job of that, at least).

    (Many years ago when I was in school, I went to Europe, and the dollar was nearly on par with the pound, and you got 7 French francs or 3 deutschmarks to the dollar. I even remember 250 Yen to the dollar)

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  48. Ugh. Another reason not to live in the Big Smoke. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    Everybody has been exposed to the data. EM radiation is bad for you. It makes you stupid, stressed and generally zoned out.

    So now it's a matter of simply consolidating your position. You can live in denial and go along as though nothing is wrong (and mod posters like me into dust to make the bad thinkings go away), or accept the fact that our governments and corporations very deliberately work to make us stupid and easily controlled, and then react to that knowledge in an appropriate manner.

    I'm glad I moved out of that concrete & steel hell-on-earth. It was one of the best things I ever did for myself; I feel many times healthier and happier.


    -FL

  49. Re:Sorry, Tempe Arizona has the largest network by cashman73 · · Score: 1

    Actually, I think the largest free Wi-Fi network in North America is LinkSys ,. . . not sure of what the total coverage is, and it's certainly not contiguous,. . . but in terms of total land area, I'm sure it's one of the top free wi-fi providers! :-)

  50. Re:Disposable cell phones...useless to reply to AC by KiwiSurfer · · Score: 1
    perhaps you followed the vodaphone scandal in greece this spring,

    That should be spelt Vodafone.

  51. Re:It's not free by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

    You mean free as in "Here. Take it. Go on, take a puff. Won't cost you a cent." Remember, the first hit is always free.

    And once you're hooked, that $29 per month fee will seem ... reasonable, somehow. You know it doesn't feel right, but you can't quite put your finger on why. Then your 802.11g-equipped laptop finishes booting up and connects to the network and you stop wondering.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.