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Why Not Use Full Disk Encryption on Laptops?

Saqib Ali asks: "According to the 2006 Security Breaches Matrix, a large number of the data leaks were caused due to stolen/missing laptops. Mobile devices will be stolen or lost, but one way to easily mitigate the harm is to use Full Disk Encryption (FDE) on all mobile devices. So, why don't we encrypt all our HDDs?" "Cost, and performance impact are the usual arguments.

Analysis shows that the access time increases by 56%-85% after FDE. As HDDs fills up the fragmentation increases and so will the file access time. With FDE, the swap file (system's virtual memory) gets encrypted as well. This will impact the system's performance noticeably when the virtual memory is being used more often.

Encryption key & password management blues follow. What happens when the user forgets his/her new FDE password? How to manage the encryption key backup files? Who has possession of the backups of the encryption keys? What about when the users quits and does not hand over the password / encryption keys? Who can access the system and its encrypted files? How frequently does the password need to be changed? How to prevent the user from writing the passwords down? Using hardware token (RSA Token, smartcard etc) can alleviate many of the password management issues. But these hardware tokens are costly!

Cost for Full Disk Encryption solutions ranges from $0-$300.

Is it not worth using Full Disk Encryption on mobile devices after all the data leaks we have seen in the last few years?"

105 of 446 comments (clear)

  1. I'm confused by Umbral+Blot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the summary answers its own questions why even bother posting comments? Except to be a smart-ass (like me).

    1. Re:I'm confused by eric76 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You might have a point if the summary answered its own question.

      It provided some usual answers, but left plenty of room for debate.

    2. Re:I'm confused by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe they're getting tired of the "yes, no, maybe" tags that always show up whenever they ask a yes/no question?

  2. Oh yea, I can hear it now. by AltGrendel · · Score: 5, Insightful
    What do you mean, you can't reset my password for my hard drive. I need the data NOW!

    Really, we all know that people will forget/lose the password. Or they'll write it down and leave it in the laptop case.

    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

    1. Re:Oh yea, I can hear it now. by dabraun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably should make the password change prodedure for your organization automatically backup the keys to a server at the same time so that your IT department can recover them for you.

    2. Re:Oh yea, I can hear it now. by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or backup the data somewhere secure and verifiably accessible to the right people. I mean, it's a laptop and they never get lost or damaged right? :-)

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    3. Re:Oh yea, I can hear it now. by Jugalator · · Score: 4, Funny

      Or they'll be half-autistic introvert geeks that have absolutely no problem recalling 10 digit alphanumeric passwords at all!

      I mean... A... friend of mine is like that! Yeah!

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    4. Re:Oh yea, I can hear it now. by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Did you ever see the Myth Buster episode where they tried to spoof a finger print reader? No matter how hard they tried, everything they attempted worked. Yes, worked. It became a big joke and they had to keep making the method "dumber", but still it kept gaining access.

      They lifted a finger print from a soda can of the "owner", then using common chemicals (like acetone), etched a copy out to a circuit board, used that as a reverse and simple ballistics gel to make a fake finger print cover that fit over their own thumb. Not something a petty thief would have, but it wasn't rocket science either. If I could get your laptop, I could get your fingerprint. Maybe even OFF the laptop. This is like writing your password down on a postit note you keep with the laptop.

      Finger print readers are probably one of the worst biometric devices you can have for security. Oh, and the device they tested was a VERY expensive door lock system, not some $100 USB device.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    5. Re:Oh yea, I can hear it now. by bluephone · · Score: 5, Informative

      The fingerprint door lock also opened with what was essentially a photocopy of the fingerprint too. A lot easier to store in your wallet and slip by security with than a gelatin finger. :)

      --
      jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
    6. Re:Oh yea, I can hear it now. by suv4x4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or, you can use a fingerprint reader. I doubt that anybody will forget their fingerprints...

      Actually he will. All over the laptop, ready to be taken and duplicated.

    7. Re:Oh yea, I can hear it now. by BVis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Two reasons why that approach wouldn't work:

      #1 The unions would never go for it. I've worked at governmental agencies that couldn't make basic computer literacy a condition of employment, because of the union.

      #2 It attempts to solve a problem by demanding that people be responsible for their own idiocy. What happens when the Big Boss writes down his password? Trust me, the only guy getting fired for that is the IT guy who tries to enforce the policy.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    8. Re:Oh yea, I can hear it now. by tftp · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If they forget a password and lose data, terminate their employment.

      You are not a manager, clearly. Termination of someone's employment will cost your company a lot of money, time and lost opportunity (unless you wanted to get rid of that employee anyway; then you have your excuse.) People are trained to do their jobs, and they are not as replaceable as an elevator operator might be. Some people train for years to do certain things, and they become really good in their area of expertise. They may be highly paid (and valued) engineers, leading designs and themselves managing projects. If such a person forgets the password what do you do, fire him and cancel the already announced release of a new product, which the customers already paid for and the delivery is due in weeks, and penalties for failure to deliver would be immense? If you fire the guy, you will be kicked out of your job so hard you will overtake him on your trajectory to the door.

      What a real manager does is this. He tries to understand how this happened, and then does his best to prevent this from happening again. This may require a private chat with the person, or an official department-wide training. The data... the data is lost already, and it's foolish to make it worse by firing the guy who is best to recreate it. Your job, as a manager, is to get the job done. Firing people in a fit of rage is not the way to do it.

    9. Re:Oh yea, I can hear it now. by risk+one · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not that I generally disagree with you, but a couple of points, just to be pedantic:
      * They lifted the fingerprint off a cd jewelcase.
      * The photocopy worked on the expensive system, but not on the simple USB device. In fact the reason they kept dumbing down (in contrast to their usual mode of operation to increase complexity as needed), was that the simple methods didn't work on the usb device. Only the second balistics model worked, which was cast from a manually improved version of the captured fingerprint. When they tried the actual doorlock, everything down to the photocopy turned out to work.

  3. Vista feature by dabraun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Doesn't Vista have a built-in feature for full disk (or all but system files) encryption? Can't you even just check off the 'encrypt' option on the properties sheet for your my docs folder (even on XP) ... or your entire user profile (to cover outlook OST etc, though that is already encrypted I believe, or can be configured to be in outlook).

    1. Re:Vista feature by Adam9 · · Score: 5, Informative

      That would be BitLocker.

    2. Re:Vista feature by mr100percent · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Mac OS X has had filevault for years now...

      Hard Drive encryption on the fly, and "Company administrators can set up a computer-wide master password as a safeguard in the event someone forgets his or her login password. This can be useful for computer or system administrators whose users either forget their passwords or in corporate situations where an employee is no longer with the company and the data left behind needs to be recovered."

  4. Security vs Convenience by Retardican · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most of the key management problems have actually been solved. PGP disk for a long time had the ability to encrypt using multiple keys, fraction keys (eg. 3 out of 5 must have their keys to open), key expiration, etc.

    The real problem is convenience. People don't like to use secure passphrases each time they turn on their computer. How many people actually used the BIOS password feature? An easier thing would be to use some identification based (USB fob, fingerprint scanner) access, but the acceptance rate of those are very small.

    Unless security is important to them personally, people just don't care. (checking under my keyboard for the root password for all the machines at work)

    --
    Will the War in Iraq get better or worse in 2007? Vote here
    1. Re:Security vs Convenience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting


      People don't like to use secure passphrases each time they turn on their computer. How many people actually used the BIOS password feature?


      because BIOS passwords are extremely insecure. If were talking about mobile devices, and you have a BIOS password protecting valuable information, its as easy as removing the CMOS battery, waiting 15 seconds, and popping it back in.


      An easier thing would be to use some identification based (USB fob, fingerprint scanner) access

      Yes but these things are generaly expensive. When you have to buy 1000+ laptops (as I have to do) an extra $30-$40 per laptop quickly adds up, not to mention the added cost of Software (Unfortunaly, linux isnt always an option when dealing with custom propritary software required for bussiness)

      The real problem normaly stems from over-zealous Managers who insist on changing passwords every 30 days, which leads to people (ie the common work drone) unable to remember ever-changing passwords. IMHO, it would be much more secure to have everyone figure out a strong SINGLE password for their important files, and not change it very often, say every 6 months. This gives them time to memorize it, and NOT write it down.

      For example, i have two passwords I use everywhere, (and various modifications of such passwords for various purposes) my crap one I use for fourms, internet stuff, and my secure one I will probably take a good 10 minuites of torture to give up (low tolerance for pain ;) As of yet, the secure one has never been broken, and only through social engineering has the insecure one been broken. Ive done this for 16+ years now, and I can count on my hand the number of times its been broken.

    2. Re:Security vs Convenience by JustOK · · Score: 2

      your secure one is 1 2 3 4 5, isn't it?

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    3. Re:Security vs Convenience by NuclearDog · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just use the "DriveLock" feature most laptops should have to put a password on the hard-drive, rather than a power-on password. The drive will now only be readable in the original laptop and only if the user has the correct password (meaning no swapping drive to another machine to bypass the password). As an added benefit, the second you cut power to the laptop the drive is locked again, so there's no worrying about forgetting to lock it or anything...

      So the only way to recover the data on your hard-drive is to pay some company a bunch of money to reset the password. This provides very little security against someone actively trying to gain access to your data, but given that probably every single case that's been in the news with regards to missing laptops with sensitive data on them had the laptop stolen by some punk with no technical skills, it's no big deal. They'll try and start it up, there'll be a password, they'll take it down to the local dealers and try and pawn it off, maybe get $20 for it or something and that'll be the end of it.

      Or if they are someone technically competent and realize how to fix it, chances are they'll drop $100 to buy a new hard-drive before they drop $300 or something on recovering the current one.

      ND

      --
      This statement is forty-five characters long.
    4. Re:Security vs Convenience by toetagger1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I once IMed my windows password to a friend.
      I used to have a screen saver password, that I had just recently turned off. When I got back to my computer, my screens were on power save mode, and I was used to just moving my mouse, and typing in the password. Instead, I typed the password in an IM window, that happened to be in focus.

      I have also seen some people in my high school steal the bios password, by swapping key boards between two adjacent PCs. While one was waiting for the password to be entered, the other one was already running, with notepad open. When the teacher came to type in the password, he just thought the computer was broke and assigned the student to a different computer. Needless to say that ALL the bios passwords were the same in the entier school. It didn't take long for someone to install remote controle devices on the teachers PCs, as well as set up servers to host games in the janator's closets.

      During college, I did on site tech support. While I was working on probably over a thousand machines over that timeperiod, I've guessed a couple of windows passwords, and it's not like I was trying every time. Sometimes you can pick up quite a bit in a brief conversation and a couple of questions. (Do you have pets, when's your birthday, ...).

      --
      who | grep -i blond | date cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep
  5. It should be done. by woolio · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I for one, do use full encryption... Suits me just fine...

    But then again, I use linux. Encryption is actually pretty simple under it for people who actually know how to admin a Linux system.

    At one time, I even ran Win2k under VMware from an image on the encrypted disk. Which means the *ENTIRE* win2k "partition" was encrypted -- something that I understand to be impossible when run natively.

    The real reasons why most don't do it?

    1) Ignorance -- it is not a built-in feature in Windows
    2) Hassle -- overtasked IT professionals aren't going to incur extra liability for encrypting a disk, handling lost passwods, etc. (It would be really bad to forget the password)
    3) Performance -- Encrypted disks aren't good for high I/O apps... Fortunately, most apps aren't!

    I sleep much better, knowing that my data is safe even if I loose possession of it. I have no qualms about storing tax returns, financial records, etc on my laptop.

    1. Re:It should be done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      EFS is not full disk encryption. It's per file encryption, which allows you to do things like see the names of files, who last modified them, when they were modified, and read files from swap.

    2. Re:It should be done. by Junta · · Score: 2, Informative

      My link full disk encryption is a company laptop.

      -Key recovery mechanism:
      In my case (and most sane companies), the IT dept with respect to this will let you proceed at your own risk with respect to laptop protected data. With any desktop/laptop install, there is a ever present risk of catastrophic disk failure, so IT policies have to dictate how to cope with sudden loss of all data on a desktop or laptop anyway, if it's because the luser forgot their password or because a drive head started skipping across the platter surface, generally it's all the same. In my case we are provided network storage space, where they manage redundancy, backups, and the associated recovery and maintenance. If the data is so damned important, stick it out there.
      I also laid out a strategy for this in another post if IT insists on key recovery. LUKS has multiple key slots and by extension can support multiple passwords. Use a key slot for the IT password unknown to the user, and one other for the user password unknown to IT. User can screw it up if they desire, but users can always screw it up if they want to, the goal is to keep a reasonable expectation of recovery, but can never win in the face of user who does not want the data recovered (unless said user is just too stupid to figure it out).

      -Corporate standards.
      The standards of the company just have to be intelligent. In my case, standards when first published required that all company data be protected, and they recommend ed gpg or windows folder encryption to start with, for linux and windows respectively. Auditors have examined my setup, and I showed them the indicators of the method I used and pointed out reference material for their review. At the end the auditors, (who were almost entirely windows people), concurred it went above and beyond the corporate standards and after my audit, future users who had a similar setup had a simple, straightforward audit.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    3. Re:It should be done. by PacoTaco · · Score: 4, Funny

      But then again, I use linux. Encryption is actually pretty simple under it for people who actually know how to admin a Linux system.

      Likewise, constructing plasma weapons is actually pretty simple for people who actually know how to build compact fusion reactors.

  6. more RAM by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 2

    Boosting system memory is one good way to mitigate the problems of FDE. Eliminating the need for swap space and buffering commonly accessed files helps reduce the amount of disk throughput needed. Sticking browser caches and other temporary file space in a virtual drive would also greatly improve performance. It might even be worthwhile looking to produce slow but inexpensive RAM just so you could make volatile RAM drives for this purpose.

  7. So, why don't we encrypt all our HDDs?" by 56ker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Because it slows it down, laptops can have user authorisation anyway (fingerprint or username/password combo) - and short of physically taking the harddrive out and reading it or booting from a CD there's very little someone can do to access the info on it without that. The point is - people just shouldn't be putting confidential stuff on laptops in the first place because of the security risk not just from theft but from casual users finding something they shouldn't or the computer geek repairing it.

    1. Re:So, why don't we encrypt all our HDDs?" by dfgchgfxrjtdhgh.jjhv · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... short of physically taking the harddrive out and reading it or booting from a CD ...

      its not hard to do either

    2. Re:So, why don't we encrypt all our HDDs?" by Extide · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So how is an on the road sales guy supposed to work? I would say in most cases ANY employees email inbox is considered confidential by default. In fact most of the stuff many on the road guys will have on their laptops IS confidential, and they NEED those laptops in order to do business. I dont think there is an excuse these days. We have plenty of CPU power available so doing the encryption/decryption in realtime shouldnt be that bad. I mean where I work everyone has a company laptop, and everyone is going to have confidential info on there. Theres no way to avoid that.

      --
      Technophile
  8. I can think of one reason... by Fyz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Though I'm not very crypto-savvy, there's one thing that I've learned from hard experience about mobile devices and hard drives: they have a very short life span.

    Anything with moving parts is bound to break, and if you move it about it'll just break all the faster.

    So can't it be a serious problem if your data is encrypted and bytes get knocked out here and there?

    Also, mobile devices are usually much slower than stationary ones and will only get slower if it has to apply complex algorithms to all data that goes in and out. And that would probably also put a real big penalty on your battery life.

    It boils down to one thing: You have to select a cost-effective level of paranoia. It would make your life infinitely complex to secure yourself against every possible scenario. How important is the secrecy of your data?

    Is the juice worth the squeeze?

    1. Re:I can think of one reason... by Simon80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In the context of stupid employers/empoyees losing laptops with sensitive databases on them, this isn't even a question - the data should never leave company premises unless it's encrypted, end of story. The fact that this isn't standard practice indicates widespread incompetence.

  9. Works fine on my laptop by cos(x) · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Granted, I am not encrypting the *whole* thing, but /home should take care of most of the sensitive data. I am using GBDE on FreeBSD which is strong enough for the weakest point to be the password. Yes, if I do lose the password, the data is unrecoverable. However, a simple way around this problem is to regularly back up the entire partition. The backup should be unencrypted, of course, so that if I lose my password, I can still get back my data. With GBDE, this is easily done. The encrypted data on my machine resides in /dev/da0s1g and after I have typed in the password, the decrypted content appears under /dev/da0s1g.bde - all I need to do is dump that partition. Certainly, encrypting all other partitions would increase security, but I am feeling pretty safe as it is. Also, FreeBSD is probably obscure enough for most laptop thieves by itself :). One last thing to note is that because the file system on *NIX is well structured, there actually should not be any sensitive data anywhere in /usr anyway - just application binaries and source.

    1. Re:Works fine on my laptop by croddy · · Score: 3, Informative
      It's also very important to encrypt your swap space -- just think of all the crypto keys, passwords, etc. that are stored in memory. It's much easier to be sure you've secured those if you know they're being swapped to a partition that's initialized with a new random key each time the system boots.

      Really, though, it's not even that difficult to encrypt the root filesystem. The new Etch installer has this built in, and if I'm not mistaken, Vista will too.

      I'm not sure what use all those software packages are that are linked on the submitter's home page.

  10. The Real Problem...USERS by PixieDust · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The real problem is the user is LAZY. The help-desk, is agitated. And the higher up big-wigs get upset because productivity suffers.

    Besides, how many laptops would then have the password for FDE engraved into them, or with a nice post-it note on them? And what would this password be? Their mother's name? Their birthday? Their dog's name? The street they live on? Users are notorious for using horrendously uncomplicated passwords.

    on the other hand, if someone were to use say MdLg25GvNtUp35
    Then yea, it would be effective. Brute forcing that would take what, 50 years?

    Of course if the password must rotate every so often, then users will be CONSTANTLY requesting resets (as someone mentioned a moment ago I believe), which will drive up help-desk costs and also drive productivity down.

    The BEST solution is to EDUCATE the user, and have strict IA policies in place. Period.

  11. OSX Makes it Easy by Above · · Score: 5, Informative

    System Preferences -> Security. Click "turn on file vault". A few minutes later, you're done.

    Also check "Use secure virtual memory" (aka encrypt swap) on the same tab.

    Now swap and your home directory (so all important data) is encrypted. The OS and applications are not. As a result performance degredation is minimal.

    In the business enviornment the business can set a recovery password in case the user forgets, dies, whatever. The user's login password is the only password they need.

    Free. Easy to use, you do nothing. Minimal performance impact. So the real reason most people aren't doing it? They are stuck with Windows bloatware or are ignorant.

    1. Re:OSX Makes it Easy by beyonddeath · · Score: 2, Interesting

      filevault can lick my sweaty nat sack. it cant free space until you log out, and when you delete a few movies or iso's out of your home folder your system takes like 45 minutes to shutdown. Personally I'll store my personal info on my fileserver which is secure enough to not have to worry about, and just deal with the dataloss if my laptop is stolen or compromised.

    2. Re:OSX Makes it Easy by grouchomarxist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem I ran into is that if there is a problem during that process, the image will get corrupted and you lose all your data. It is technology that isn't ready for primetime.

    3. Re:OSX Makes it Easy by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Of course, one also has to be worried that the Windows passwords are easily crackable (http://elliottback.com/wp/archives/2006/04/26/cra cking-windows-passwords-with-ophcrack-and-rainbow- tables/). But I guess that's good when you forget your password.
      I haven't clicked on the link, but he's talking about LMHASH passwords. Why don't you look up the last version of Windows that used LMHASH? I am often asked to recover forgotten Windows Admin passwords at work, and I haven't run into an LMHASH password for a long long time.
  12. This makes no sense by sheldon · · Score: 4, Informative

    What do you mean "Why don't we use full disk encryption?"

    The company I work for(financial services) has been using this for over a year now. Not just on laptops, but also all desktops in the company.

    1. Re:This makes no sense by 4alexnyc · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ditto for my company - very large company in FS, all 50,000 laptops are encrypted... Took a while to get senior management on board (come on, all of us in IT knew this was something that should have been done for a while) but once the decision was made, it was implemented quickly and properly (i.e.- force load on initial login).

  13. At least one bank does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Posting anon for obvious reasons, but those of you banking at JPMC may rest assured that we already do use full disk encryption on laptops. Wouldn't be at all surprised to learn other banks do.

  14. Why Encrypt Everything? by DragonWriter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Full Disk Encryption gives you the access overhead that comes with encryption/decryption for every access to the hard disk. Why not just encrypt the sensitive data if you want to avoid leaks of the sensitive data?

    Plus, a lot of the recent newsworthy leaks would be avoided or minimized by using encrypted access to sensitive databases via an application on the laptop, rather than people copying large databases of sensitive data to their laptop to take it home and work on it, and then losing the laptop.

    1. Re:Why Encrypt Everything? by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Why not just encrypt the sensitive data if you want to avoid leaks of the sensitive data?
      Because it is not that simple.

      Sensitive data gets dumped to the swap file, Your word/spreadsheet/e-mail/other client will dump backup/temp copies in unencrypted places, etc etc etc.

      It isn't enough just to encrypt sensitive information, you have to make sure every application that touches the info will not compromise your efforts.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Why Encrypt Everything? by croddy · · Score: 2, Informative

      You have to encrypt everything; otherwise they know which data is sensitive. Make them work for it!

  15. It's the encrypting file system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    and it has been around since Win 2000.

    It's not really "full disk" encryption, as it applies to a single file or folder.

    See http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxp pro/deploy/cryptfs.mspx for more

  16. Some data and personal perspective on that point. by Junta · · Score: 5, Informative

    This post written from a laptop with a LUKS-root filesystem. I catted a 280 MB file into dev null, it took 17.8 seconds. I copied that file to a filesystem on the exact same drive, umounted the filesystem, remounted it, and tested that, it took 12.5 seconds Top showed the crypt activity as taking about 50% of my cpu in the first case, my Pentium M at the time of measurement clocked only up to 800 MHz to accommodate the load. This test was repeated a few times with a small degree of variation.

    Anyway, those metrics are actually more different than I would have expected. I was hoping to demonstrate that the difference isn't that much, but objectively it is disk io performance hit. In general use I don't notice it. I already had a crappy hard drive that was dog slow, and in the end adding encryption made it... still a crappy hard drive that is dog slow, and the extra slowness I didn't even bother perceiving until I tried to measure it. I used this laptop for a few weeks with no encryption, and on the next install did encryption from the get go on everything from /, and didn't notice a problem at all.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  17. A better way to secure your data is to.... by zerofoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    keep it off of portable devices. We grappled with this problem at the bank where I used to work. We opted for Citrix/Remote Desktop inside a VPN tunnel secured via RSA token and accessed via Verizon wireless broadband cards. This kept all non-public information off of laptops, securely stored in our datacenter.

    -ted

  18. Encryption enshmiption by Angst+Badger · · Score: 4, Funny
    I count on the contents of my thumb drive being easily readable to ensure its safe return if I lose it. I put everything in a directory tree that looks like this:
    /nuclear_bomb_plans
    /hamas_donations
    /al_qaeda_c ontacts
    That way, if I accidentally drop it somewhere, odds are that it will be returned to me by those nice boys at the FBI.
    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  19. eCryptfs by omnirealm · · Score: 5, Informative

    A new addition to the 2.6.19 Linux kernel, eCryptfs, addresses many of these problems:

    http://ecryptfs.sf.net/

    eCryptfs is an actual filesystem operating at the VFS layer of the Linux kernel. It stacks on top of other filesystems like ext3 and encrypts files one at a time, with each file getting its own key.

    Who cares about encrypting libc or the x.org libraries? People want to encrypt their financial, medical, and other such data. eCryptfs makes it easy to encrypt only what users want to encrypt.

    Some ways that eCryptfs deals with the issues raised:

    What happens when the user forgets his/her new FDE password?

    The best answer is, ``You're screwed.'' That is the way it should be; without the secret, nobody -- not even you -- can get to the data.

    Now, out here in reality, things can't be quite that convenient. Try telling the CEO that his third-quarter reports are lost forever. The next-best thing is intelligent key escrow. I tend to recommend (m,n)-threshold sharing, wherein a certain number of people in a group need to collude (say, 3 out of 5 people in the company) in order to reconstruct the secret value.

    eCryptfs userspace tools have a pluggable key management infrastructure, and thus it can keep the secret value in any token device for which a module exists. These hardware devices do not need to be expensive. In fact, Thinkpads come with TPM chips built-in, and a TPM key module already exists for eCryptfs:

    http://trousers.sourceforge.net/tpm_keyring2/quick start.html

    How to manage the encryption key backup files?> Who has possession of the backups of the encryption keys? What about when the users quits and does not hand over the password / encryption keys?

    All of these are addressed with something like (m,n)-threshold sharing:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_sharing

    Also, because eCryptfs encrypts on a per-file basis, an incremental backup utility can just access the encrypted files on the lower filesystem. All of the information needed to decrypt the files is right in the header of each file; all you need is the key.

    Who can access the system and its encrypted files?

    This is a semantic security problem that the tools should definitely address. eCryptfs, in its current form, provides fairly flexible key management options, but the design goals of eCryptfs are much more ambitious, and they seek to address these sorts of issues:

    http://ecryptfs.sourceforge.net/ecryptfs.pdf

    How frequently does the password need to be changed?

    Ideally, one would use eCryptfs in public key mode, so that is largely a non-issue. The secret can remain locked in a TPM chip, and the key can be escrowed.

    How to prevent the user from writing the passwords down?

    There is nothing wrong with writing passwords down, as long as the paper on which the passwords are written is stored in a location that can be made at least as secure as is necessary to protect the data that the passwords are protecting. In any event, the secret value can depend on a password *and* something else, like a file. The OpenSSL key module can be used in that way.

    Using hardware token (RSA Token, smartcard etc) can alleviate many of the password management issues. But these hardware tokens are costly!

    Not really; many laptops shipped today have TPM chips built-in.

    Oh, yeah, and all of eCryptfs -- both the kernel and userspace components -- are GPL. Give it a try.

    --
    An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
    1. Re:eCryptfs by omnirealm · · Score: 2, Informative

      How does this compare to dm-crypt and LUKS?

      dm-crypt is a block device encryption tool. eCryptfs is an actual cryptographic filesystem. Files can sit side-by-side in the same directory and be encrypted with entirely independent sets of keys. Incremental backup utilities can access the encrypted versions of the files. eCryptfs is an order of magnitude more complex and flexible than block device encryption tools.

      it seems like reinventing the wheel.

      Read the paper:

      http://ecryptfs.sourceforge.net/ecryptfs.pdf

      --
      An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
    2. Re:eCryptfs by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 2, Informative

      What eCryptfs does not solve is the issue of system integrity, and secure temporary storage. What good is it to encrypt your files if they can just scan your swap partition looking for data? or /tmp? or, as someone else said, they trojan other files on your system?

    3. Re:eCryptfs by omnirealm · · Score: 2, Informative

      What eCryptfs does not solve is the issue of system integrity, and secure temporary storage.

      Right. eCryptfs currently only provides data confidentiality for persistent storage in the event of compromise of your physical media. There is other software available to provide integrity (SLIM) and secure swap space (dm-crypt with a random key on boot).

      --
      An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
  20. incremental/differential backups by buckles · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought that encrypting just the home directory was a great security idea on my group's laptops. It is very effective in limiting liability against laptop theft.
    Except that every day's incremental backup becomes a de facto full backup. So you have to start the backup as soon as you get to the office if you want to leave on time.

  21. Physical Security... by evilviper · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is slightly off the topic, but in the same vein...

    I continue to wonder, after every major laptop theft, why NOBODY is working on physical security.

    Notebook hard drives are easily pocket-sized, and the only thing keeping the hard drive from sliding out of most laptops is the thin plastic shell of the unit. Build laptops with a very simple hinging door over the drive would be absolutely trivial. You probably also want to add thin aluminum shell around the drive to protect it from static discharge and other abuse.

    Then, you tell employees to keep the drive in their pockets when they go into public. If it's really critical data, attaching a retractable cable (as seen attached to your janitor's keyring) between your belt and the drive will stop all but the most skilled, equiped and determined theives.

    It's as if everyone in IT has forgotten the lessons learned from the past several thousand years of (physical) security developments.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  22. Stupid idea. by kosmosik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To encrypt entire disk it is a stupid idea. Few points:

    - Performance - encrypting everything (cache, program files and so on) is a serious hit on performance, now you can say that hardware/performance it is not a problem. But don't say it to me when I see brand new laptop booting long time since you can login and launching MS Office in *few* seconds.

    - Anyway why encrypt everything when it is the data (and not all of it) that you want to encrypt?

    - Hassle - I mean when it is an option to just tick "encrypt my harddrive" checkbox it is paradoxically way to easy. You can imagine every clueless marketing staff member just ticking it to encrypt their worthless data. It is good that hard encryption is bit "hard" (like you need to provide a password and a key and have a clue what is going on) so people will use it only when they need it, so they will probably remember their passwords.

    My boss asked me for this feature. I've just installed TrueCrypt for this. Told him to click on this icon and *remember* his password (probably he wrote it down and locked in a safe - perfectly normal and wise) so he can get his "special safe disk" for his important documents.

    1. Re:Stupid idea. by Cygnus78 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Anyway why encrypt everything when it is the data (and not all of it) that you want to encrypt?

      Because you can not trust your system to never write this data on another location on the disk.

    2. Re:Stupid idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      re: Perfomance

      99% users won't notice and I don't care if my user does experiance a slight performance hit if it enhances the security of my customers data (in our tests it was 5 to 10% on IO intensive operations)

      re: Anyway why encrypt everything

      Your laptop may contain confidential and public data. Your laptop should be secured to the highest classified data on your laptop. In addition - most users are lazy. If i have the choice (and I do) of encrypting the entire laptop or just one or two directories and "trust" that the user will do the right thing - I will encrypt the entire laptop. It eliminates my need to trust that user. And for users who write their password and paste it on the laptop - our solution is simple - we fire em.

      re: hassle

      I don't get this point at all. Its easier just to enforce whole disk encryption than rely on the user to make sure the data is encrypted.

      You are doing your boss a disfavor if this how you approve solving a security problem.

  23. For a corporate environment... by Junta · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm going to use LUKS as my example, since the classic cryptoloop and older dm-crypt stuff can't do this.

    The solution is for IT to have a person perform the install (already was going to be hard not to do so with the current state of installers). The IT person makes a master copy of the key using the company's chosen password, and uses a different key slot for the employee-known password. When password changes occur, IT people have to go and change the IT-friendly key slot to the new password, but leave the employee's alone. Then IT can recover data from laptops at user requests. This doesn't guarantee data recovery from a system if the user who can change the password on their own key slot doesn't want them to, but if the user wants to play nice to keep IT able to assist them it can work. If the user botches the IT key slot and needs recovery, tough. Data on a laptop in that circumstance should be relatively transient if remotely important, with the real copies on file servers where IT can manage backup and recovery as they see fit.

    At work the mandate for Windows laptops is to use the built in encrypted folders mechanism, which is a lot like encfs. If they loose their user password for the account the data is gone, and this is just a fact of life they have to live with. One person went further and put some third-party whole disk encryption on their Windows laptop, a la dm-crypt, but I don't know if it is like classic dm-crypt setups where the key itself is simply a hash of the password, or if it is LUKS style, where the key is random (or at least psuedo-random) and itself is encrypted using the hash of passwords, allowing for trivial password changes and multiple valid passwords.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  24. Not a good defense by Junta · · Score: 4, Informative

    All the fingerprint and user authentication in the world is a poor defense against someone ripping out the drive, which is easy if the laptop is stolen. That's why it is generally a larger issue on laptops than desktops. Desktops tied to your desk at work have whatever physical security the company has invested in protecting it, leaving it open only to the possiblity of remote attackers (well, within reason, the physical security can be bypassed, but assume a perfect company for discussion). The whole threat of a laptop is physical security breaches, otherwise the discussion wouldn't be laptop-centered. As to not putting confidential stuff on laptops, it is a good idea, but that is a policy rooted in trusting the user to always be vigilant about the confidentiality of the data set they are working, trusting their judgment, and expecting them not to take convenient short cuts at 5pm on a Friday so they can get it done on the weekend without staying late or looking bad on Monday. I use full disk encryption so I don't have to even think about it. I'm fairly sure I have nothing on my laptop remotely of interest to anyone, but I never have to think too hard about it.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  25. Re:Why ? by eric76 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The point is that whoever ends up with the computer can't access your hard drive and retrieve confidential data.

    If someone steals the laptop and can't access the data, all you lost was the laptop, your access to it, and your modifications of the contents (you do have it backed up at the office, don't you)?

    If someone steals the laptop and the data is available, you've lost the laptop and your access to it. But you might be able to retrieve your modifications of the contents when they are posted across the Internet for all to see.

    Of course, that confidential information may make it into the hands of someone who can use it so you may also lose thye contents of your bank account, find your credit cards charged up, serious damage to your company's image to the public, possibly several millions of dollars in lawsuits, the wages of the people it takes to deal with the situation, etc.

    It is, or at least, it should be, a no-brainer if you have any kind of confidential information at all.

  26. Re:Why ? by uber_geek9 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do you understand what's being discussed here? It's NOT how to keep your laptop from being stolen. It's how to protect its contents in case it IS stolen. Not trying to prevent theft -- trying to make sure your data doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

  27. FDE is in use in my workplace by jahurska · · Score: 4, Informative

    I work as a SW consultant for the mobile sector and all laptops in our firm have encrypted hard drives. The system is so that username and password is asked right when the laptop is booted kinda like bios password and after windows is loaded it automatically logins you to windows with those credentials. It's easy to use, no need to remember any additional passwords and also added benefit is that the administrators can login into it with their credentials if a user forgets his password.

    The performance hit is real and noticeable though, but mostly affects hard drive related tasks, so that does not hinder my working too much.

    Also all firms that I have been dealing with use encrypted laptops, so in my perspective the FDE is pretty widely used already :).

  28. I already did... by rickb928 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...for a 7 week gig at a semiconductor maker. IBM (yeah, now Lenovo) Thinkpad, and I had to enter a password at boot. No sweat, they asked me to give the password to the tech who received the equipment when I turned it in, but it could have been reformatted since I kept nothing on the local drive worth saving.

    For what it's worth, this gig was all wireless on campus too, with VPN inside and outside the firewalls. I'm doing a long-term gig with a major financial firm now, and they don't use FDE. And they have NO, repeat NO NO NO wireless. The security team trolls constantly for unauthorized wireless and anything that transmits is confiscated as soon as they find it - cut out and trashed.

    Both these firms suffer the same risks for their data. Either would suffer financially and risk complete failure if a critical breach ocurred. Just different ways of doing things.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  29. Because it's a pain on Linux by IO+ERROR · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Encrypting your whole disk on Linux is somewhere between a minor pain and a complete nightmare. Support for it doesn't even exist on certain high-profile commercial distros (Red Hat) which you would THINK would have had it long ago because it's something their customers would want.

    I had to put together my own unofficial packages to get an encrypted root filesystem on Fedora Core 5. (And then it broke on FC6, so no upgrading yet...) In theory, the support will officially be in Fedora Core 7, but there's still a bunch of code to be written between now and then.

    --
    How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
    1. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Encrypted filesystems are not the same thing as full disk encryption. FDE also encrypts partition tables, boot sectors, etc... everything, and typically requires some kind of hardware assistance like a TPM chip. There is also "mostly" full disk encryption which has an unecrypted boot record but has everything else encrypted.

      The point of a FDE is that your encryption keys are locked in a TPM chip of some sort, and you can't retrieve them with software. Encrypted filesystems require your boot partition have the encryption keys unencrypted so that they can be read, which sort of mitigates the whole point.

    2. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by IWannaBeAnAC · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why bother encrypting the whole disk anyway? My instinct (as a programmer, but knowing not much about security) would be to just encrypt /home, /tmp, maybe /etc and /var, and I guess /swap if I was really paranoid.

      What does encrypting the whole disk give you?

    3. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Question: Suppose you use FDE to encrypt your disk, then your laptop dies. Is it possible to hook it up to another machine via USB enclosure and recover the data?

      (I apologize for my ignorance, I've never looked into disk encryption before.)

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    4. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by tftp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It depends on what has died in your laptop, and how.

    5. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by tftp · · Score: 4, Informative
      I have a laptop here which had a failure of the +5V power supply. The input was +16V (one of IBM Thinkpads), and when applied to a 5V-rated circuits it fried /everything/ in the notebook. I tested the drive - it's dead like a doornail.

      There are several ways to encrypt the data on the HDD, and everything depends on how it is done. If you used a 3rd party s/w with a key that is generated from your passphrase then you are good. Just use the same s/w on the replacement computer, and it ought to recognize the drive.

      Unfortunately, MS encrypted folders use a key that is uniquely generated for your account, and once you lose the account (on the dead computer) you can't decrypt anything. There are ways to add corporate keys to the system, so that in a company setting it's possible to recover the data; however this is /way/ beyond abilities of a typical user.

      Finally, if the TCA is used then the TCA engine and the HDD controller can negotiate crypto keys, and the HDD can encrypt and decrypt data as it writes or reads the platters. This method is very secure because it ties several identities together (the TCA core, the internal HDD key data, the user's password, the account's GUID etc.) and I don't think it's worth trying to break. The good news is that I don't know of any computers today that can do this; maybe Vista will offer this.

    6. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative
      There are ways to add corporate keys to the system, so that in a company setting it's possible to recover the data; however this is /way/ beyond abilities of a typical user.

      Actually, it's trivial to export the keys so you can decrypt the files from a different machine. The problem is that this functionality is not mentioned the first time you encrypt a folder, so you only find out about it when you lose days.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by kasperd · · Score: 3, Informative
      Why bother encrypting the whole disk anyway?
      If you are using a hardware solution, encryption the whole disk may be the only option. Otherwise, you only need to encrypt those partitions containing sensitive data.

      My instinct would be to just encrypt /home, /tmp,
      Your instinct is not all bad :-)

      maybe /etc and /var,
      You really should encrypt /var, it does contain a tmp directory, and also some spools such as mail spool and printer spool. /etc is not the most important to encrypt, but still I would encrypt it. /usr I wouldn't encrypt unless it just happened to be on the same file system as something I wanted to encrypt. Encrypting just some directories on a file system is less practical. It requires support from the file system, and such encryptions are more complicated and thus more prone to have weaknesses because of bad design or implementation. I'd either encrypt everything but /boot, or maybe put /usr on a seperate unencrypted partition.

      and I guess /swap if I was really paranoid.
      In fact swap was the first thing I decided to encrypt on my laptop. Encrypting swap is simpler and less intrusive than everything else. Thus there is really not much reason not to encrypt swap. No need for complicated key management, just generate a new random key on every boot.
      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    8. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 3, Informative

      Question: Suppose you use FDE to encrypt your disk, then your laptop dies. Is it possible to hook it up to another machine via USB enclosure and recover the data?

      (I apologize for my ignorance, I've never looked into disk encryption before


      A USB or passcode can be used to access the volume with most of the full volume technologies.

      Using the newest one in town as an example, Vista's BitLocker, you can use a USB device to backup your key. Bitlocker also will allow a non TP computer to encrypt a volume as long as the computer has a USB drive and the system is capable of seeing it at boot, and then uses the USB device in place of the TP mechanisms.

      Most technologies have passkey or other methods that are user accessible, so that a volume will never be lost due to any hardware failures except if the drive itself fails.

    9. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Encrypted filesystems require your boot partition have the encryption keys unencrypted so that they can be read, which sort of mitigates the whole point.


      For the most part you are correct. However there are file level encryption technologies that DON'T leave the keys unprotected even if they are store on an non-protected volume.

      NTFS for example has file level encryption, but unless you logging into the system to access the keys or have the key backup, the encrypted files are visible in the MFT but not readable.

      Full volume encryption is the most secure obviously, but doesn't mean that you can't make use of file level encryption for sensitive data as well.

    10. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Entering a password at boot time is not a viable solution. The computer has to be able to boot the OS to a login prompt, which will allow the user to enter their password to decrypt their personal files.

      Requiring a password at boot time has a number of problems. First, you either have to give everyone that uses the computer the same password to boot the system, or you need to use a multi-key encryption routine, which might difficult to maintain as you add or remove new users. Then there's the issue of users having to enter two different passwords (for security, you wouldn't want them to be the same) just to log in.

      What you want is for the machine to boot and automatically decrypt the public filesystem information (the OS, and various other directories) securely (ie, it is tied to the machine via a TPM chip of some sort) without the need to identify the user, since you need a valid username and password to login this shouldn't be a security risk over and above any other security risk of someone stealing your laptop and having as much time as they need to fiddle with it.

    11. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by majest!k · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unfortunately, MS encrypted folders use a key that is uniquely generated for your account, and once you lose the account (on the dead computer) you can't decrypt anything. There are ways to add corporate keys to the system, so that in a company setting it's possible to recover the data; however this is /way/ beyond abilities of a typical user.

      If you have an encrypted file from a Windows XP computer, as long as you know the logon password for the account that encrypted the file, you can decrypt the file. Check out EFS Key.

      --
      smattawichu
    12. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but this ignores one point. If you're encrypting your root filesystem, and you don't want to have to enter a password to simply boot the computer (as opposed to logging in) then the system has to be able to decrypt the boot record, and all the OS system files to boot the OS to the login prompt (thus not having to enter a password twice, or give a single password to multiple users of the computer, or allow multiple passwords to decrypt the volume).

      Using only encrypted filesystems, then the decryption keys for the public areas have to be available unencrypted, because you need to be able to boot enough of the OS to be able to read the filesystem and decode everything.


      I'm not sure which part you are confusing. Are you suggesting using FS level encryption for a volume's boot record, or do you not understand that volume level encryption is below the FS level encryption?

      Let me try to shed light in both directions...

      You wouldn't or shouldn't use a filesystem level encryption in this instance. File System level protection is not a viable choice for volume protection, it is only viable for select files or folders on the volume.

      This is why for example NTFS's encryption (Filesystem level) is not meant to encrypt the entire volume, and why Vista's Bitlocker IS DESIGNED to encrypt the Volume. (I know these are MS analogies, but go look up NTFS encryption and then lookup BitLocker.) They give a good pro and con of each concept.

      Trying to protect a volume with FS level encryption won't work without a two key stategy, pre-user authorization and user authorization. In contrast, bitlocker being below the FS, has a single integrated key concept, but yet lies underneath the FS for the volume. This allows the volume to boot, yet leaves it encrypted even while showing the Windows Login Screen.

      What you suggest is not possible as it is circular in reasoning. If you want the to encrypt the boot record, then you want to encrypt the volume and not just the file system on the volume.

      There is no way to encrypt a boot record at the FS level without needing a key or password to access it. So you are right that the volume key would have to be issued prior to boot, and why FS level encryption is not a good option for an entire volume.

      I don't think I disagree with you, but I disagree that a FS encryption concept is securely viable for boot record/volume level encryption.

      Does this make sense?

    13. Re:Because it's a pain on Linux by Mr_Perl · · Score: 2, Informative

      Gentoo makes encryption of your home partition + swap dead simple. Set up your tmp directories with tmpfs (like you should anyhow on a laptop)

      1. Modprobe dm-crypt
      2. emerge cryptsetup, run it once after losetup to initialize your device.
      3. edit /etc/cryptfs based on the examples

      You can do the root fs with a little more effort but most people won't store anything sensitive outside of their home directory anyway.

      --

      My poetry site welcomes the unusual.
  30. PGP Whole Disk Encryption by Simon+Garlick · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://forums.pgpsupport.com/viewforum.php?f=54&si d=749efb5b59855bac7e1a06eda016e4a9

    If you need a reason why people aren't encrypting their disks, visit the PGP Whole Disk Encryption forum and take your pick.

  31. Re:Some data and personal perspective on that poin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm posting this from a laptop with the entire disk encrypted with LUKS. It's a pentium-M notebook I use for development and mail/web. I don't notice any slowness at all. As long as you have enough memory to not use swap, it's perfect. And with the new Debian installer, it's easy too.

    Give it a try.

    Another advantage for corporate types who have to dispose of old disks securely: If all the data that's ever touched a drive has been encrypted you can probably get rid of it without the DBAN hassle. (No offense to DBAN, it's great)

  32. Crypto is mandaroty by Vaakku · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Encrypted hard drives have been mandatory for last 5 years on laptops. Working for telco, Welcome to europe.

  33. Re:Hardware aided encryption anyone? by Junta · · Score: 2, Informative

    The hard disk password isn't encryption, it's just a handshake with the controller chip on the hard drive. I don't know what method they used, but generally speaking the data on the platters is unprotected and theoretically swapping the little controller board bit of the drive would bypass it.

    Whatever hardware assisted encryption there is to be had in Thinkpads would be that stuff provided for 'trusted' computing. I have no insight on what it could actually do *for* the user as opposed to against it, but also based on my experience I don't think I need to offload the work as it isn't that intensive for a single user system anyway.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  34. context by pruss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In a number of contexts, loss of data is a more serious concern than loss of confidentiality. For the vast majority of self-generated data on my hard drive, I would be seriously inconvenienced by the loss of the data, but would not at all mind the data becoming public. For a significantly smaller amount of data, I would seriously mind the data becoming public, but I would more mind losing the data. Only a very small fraction of data on my computer is such that I would mind the data becoming public more than I would losing it.

    In such a context, given that FDE makes data recovery harder and more time-consuming, it can make sense to encrypt only that tiny fraction of data where one would more mind its becoming public than one's losing it. In other contexts, it will be different.

  35. Theres another question not being asked by brunes69 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    .. and that's "What happens if and when something goes wrong with the encryption solution and you lose all your data"?

    When I was issued a company laptop, I jumped right on the encryption bandwagon. I used Linux, so I encrypted umy home directory sing loop-aes. Unfortunatly I was usin Gentoo at the time, and this was early in the 2.6 kernel series, before loopback encryption was standard in the kernel. So I was using some kind of third-party kernel AES crypto module (still not exactly sure what it wasusing, emerge took care of the details).

    Anyways, months later, my OS install goes haywire. For what reason now I don't remember. No big deal I thought, I will just re-install.

    Problem was, with the current Gentoo, I couldn't decrypt my drive.

    Skip ahead 4 days later. I have tried *everything* to decrypt this data - posted in forums, talked to crypt developers, even tried writing an AES routine myself to get the raw volume at least. Nada. I ended up giving up and starting over - after all, nothing *important* was lost, but I did lose 2 years woth of archived emails I really would have liked to keep.

    Oh, what about backups you say? Well security-consious as I was, I decided to back up the encrypted volume.

    Needless to say I remain very wary of full-disk encryption in any form. And I always back up unencryupted. Secure? maybe not. But at least I know that if I have a filesystem crash I can use standard ext2 recoveryt ools to get my essential files back.

  36. Halfway by chill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There is absolutely no need to encrypt the main hard drive. What? You afraid of someone stealing C:\WINNT?

    The simply solution is to use USB disks/keys with encryption and stick all sensitive data on those. You can get 4 Gb solid-state and larger if you use something like an iPod. How many people really need > 4 Gb of secure data available off-net? The vast majority would be fine with fast USB 2.0 memory sticks.

    Key escrow solves the "I lost my password" as well as employees that leave without telling their boss/replacement the passwords.

    For super-secure stuff, make them call home first to check a CRL and validate they still have permission.

    For those that don't like the USB stick solution, then partition hard drives and just don't encrypt C:\.

      Charles

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  37. Why keep sensitive data on the laptop at all? by heisencat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With USB flash drives up to 4GB, and 100GB+ USB hard drives that will fit in a pocket, why not just keep it on your person (encrypted if necessary)?

    --
    We only want a quiet place to finish working while God eats our brains.
    --Bruce Sterling
  38. EncryptionPlus Hard Disk by DoomfrogBW · · Score: 2, Informative

    My employer uses EncryptionPlus Hard Disk since a data theft from a laptop in 2004 that compromised a hundred or more Social Security Numbers. I don't know how robust EP Hard disk 7.1 is, but it is such a big deal that all 60,000 employee laptops use the software.

  39. File Vault has free space issues by bigtrike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can only reclaim space from deleted files in file vault by logging out of the user account. This can be quite annoying.

  40. Not True for All Laptop BIOSs by Inhibit · · Score: 3, Informative
    "because BIOS passwords are extremely insecure. If were talking about mobile devices, and you have a BIOS password protecting valuable information, its as easy as removing the CMOS battery, waiting 15 seconds, and popping it back in."


    I'll inform all the buyers of low cost paper weights on EBay that they're missing this important feature of the IBM laptops.

    While yours is a true statement for some laptops, it isn't a blanket statement for all laptops. There are many exceptions to the rule that BIOS/HDD laptop passwords are easy to break.
    --
    You're reading Slashdot. Of course you like Linux and pc hardware
  41. Looks like... by Junta · · Score: 3, Informative

    Based on the readme, it looks like encfs (which uses fuse and openssl). It might obscure more detail (i.e. with encfs you know how many files and directories there are, and their timestamps). How does it differ from encfs (http://encfs.sourceforge.net/)?

    encfs is of course per user, and a somewhat nifty thing there is the pam_encfs module which can optionally used to get the authentication token to unlock its key. The implementation (since it's obviously has to be since it's a fuse thing) is more userspace than ecryptfs, but functionally speaking, what's the difference?

    I understand well the benefits compared with dm-crypt strategy based on the circumstances and requirements.
    With block level strategies, you have to decide the total size of the block device for protected vs. non-protected data. If you don't understand your needs well, it's difficult to apply a finer-grained approach to security, particularly if you are required to codify it into a company standard for people who you definitely won't understand perfectly the needs of. Because of this, the only generally feasible approach is to encrypt everything save for /boot (which I do). This has benefit for protecting against physical threats and people trying to reboot your system using a live cd or other such attacks. However, the key is always available to the kernel and all the data is visible, so a remote or local attack that acheives root privileges means all the data is exposed since a very coarse grained attack was used. On the bright side, it is also appropriate as a codified standard because users can't generally be trusted to correctly perform risk assessments on every save or understand all the temporary places they may save to, and it's the only way to protect swap patitions. I use dm-crypt with LUKS partitions for / and swap on my laptop, with a small /boot for the kernel and luks-enabled initrd.

    encfs and similar strategies feasibly allow finer grained policies to go into place without making the tough size decisions as is needed with block strategies. This provides all the protection from theft and such like dm-crypt does. And if the policies are fine grained and the directories are only mounted as needed, a remote attacker achieving root access will only be able to get to file systems currently mounted, which may be a smaller set than the whole. The difficulty here is that when defining a finer-grained policy, you have to know which directories could ever hold sensitive data, If you are to protect swap you can't use a swap partition, but a swapfile in a directory protected by such a scheme, and in the end on a single user system (almost all laptops), effectively no matter what all the encrypted filesystems will be mounted anyway most all the time, so it's really not ultimately much of a functional difference. I make encfs available on a couple of multi-user systems, and generally have pam_encfs there to make their home directories encrypted. /tmp is always exposed and swap is still dm-crypt protected on that system.

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    1. Re:Looks like... by omnirealm · · Score: 2, Informative

      How does it differ from encfs (http://encfs.sourceforge.net/)?

      eCryptfs is kernel-native; EncFS is userspace. Since EncFS is userspace and depends on FUSE, shared memory mappings are not possible. Furthermore, FUSE incurs tremendous overhead with context switching between kernel and userspace; keeping everything native in the kernel during the page reads and writes is a big performance boost.

      eCryptfs has an entire infrastructure that is geared toward complex cryptographic policies. This work has yet to be done, but for now, eCryptfs is at least as functional as EncFS when it comes to providing data confidentiality, but eCryptfs can provide full POSIX compliance and it does not incur the overhead of continually bouncing between kernel and userspace.

      --
      An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
  42. Flawed encryption schemes by bongk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is an inherent flaw with many of the commercial laptop full-disk encryption solutions out there. I have the most experience with Utimaco's Safeguard Easy, but I know many of the other big players have the same fault -

    The software has a feature called "Pre-boot Authentication", by which the encryption software is loaded after the bios, but before the (generally Windows) operating system. The user's password is used to generate the decryption key, so theorhetically not even the NSA could decrypt the laptop without the user's password.

    Here's the flaw - the software has a checkbox to disable Pre-boot authentication. What this does is generate a default user with a random password, and then store this random password obfuscated but in clear-text in the same disk area decryption software. When you talk to the sales-people, they sell this as a feature, in fact about half of Utimaco's customers (so I'm told) run it in this mode because the encryption becomes transparent and it is much less intrusive on the user. (Basically the disk is automatically decrypted each time the laptop is booted, but you have to have a valid Windows login to get in.) Buried in the help documentation are warnings "For security reasons, you should Never disable pre-boot authentication". So the engineers and the company know the weakness of disabling pre-boot authentication, but they don't tell their customers when they sell the software.

    Today it seems to break into these laptops with pre-boot authentication disabled you would need somewhat sophisticated tools and techniques, basically the same tools and techniques people commonly use to "crack" commercial software today. But I'm guessing that it won't be very long before someone takes the time to build this crack and releases it, rendering the laptop encryption useless to anyone who can Google for "Utimaco Crack", etc. Basically all the crack would need to do is grab the default user's password off the disk and use or duplicate the decryption algorithms that are also in clear-text on the disk.

    I've talked to a number of IT security folks, and basically it seems like most people trust the sales folks and don't understand that its basically impossible to have strong encryption without having the decryption key stored off the disk (like on a smart card, or in the brain of the user.)

  43. C:\Pr0n by quakeroatz · · Score: 2, Funny

    There is absolutely no need to encrypt the main hard drive. What? You afraid of someone stealing C:\WINNT?
    No, but I'm sure no one wants people going through their C:\Pr0n directory.
    Try fitting that sucker on a USB flash drive!

  44. won't matter... by tomstdenis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    AES-256 + disk encryption + password="mittens" == moot.

    How about we train people who hold sensitive data on how to manage it?

    There's a shocking cool idea...

    Tom

    --
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  45. Trade off... by Junta · · Score: 4, Informative

    The traditional method dm-crypt and cryptoloop used was basically what you say, a hash of the password was used to encrypt the entire disk. Of course, no one ever devised a way to change the password in place, and even if they did, it would require all data on the disk to be re-encrypted. The key used to actually encrypt the data would likely be cryptographically weaker to crack, in theory. If you ever ever write down the password (I don't but some do) and then lose the paper, you can never be sure about the security of your data again short of re-encrypting the whole thing. I think this is probably the single thing people not researching it thoroughly misunderstand, if the technology you see is definitely encryption of a large data set, and you can essentially instantly change the password protecting it, the key used to encrypt the actual data is certainly not the password itself, as it requires a huge amount of effort to change the key on large amounts of encryted data.

    In the LUKS scheme the key material used for the very large data set will probably be more cryptographically sound. With a large data set, cryptographically weak keys could more likely be crackable than strong keys, in a large number of the type of attacks historically seen in cryptography. A small data set (data comprised only of the actual key) is generally more resistant to data analysis attacks, so a somewhat weaker password hash based key may be less exposed in that context. If you ever think a malicious user has had opportunity to get your password (the most likely thing in general for an attacker to get), you can change the password and the old key slot be shredded such that the knowledge obtained becomes useless. Sure, the 'master password' being compromised would mean the disk is irrevocably compromised, but that would be the case in the classical strategy anyway, since changing the password isn't feasible. Now if you want to actually re-encrypt data in the way a password change would require in the previous example, you can always reformat with a different key (or re-encrypt in place if implementation allowed), and have the same degree of 'changing the master password' as you put it.

    Keep in mind the 'master password' (or rather the actual key) in this context is probably a random 256 bit value. To achieve a comparable level of randomness, a password consisting of typable characters would have to be about 40 characters long consisting of completely random keypresses. If a person is ever in a position to actually get that master key value, you've already lost the data because before they can get to that key they have to:
    -Get root privilges while the volume is mounted to get dmsetup table output, but if it's mounted they could just grab the data anyway.
    -Get low-level physical access to your hardware to begin to crack the LUKS header of the partition or the content itself. If they are in a position to do so, they could/would image your entire volume and return your drive. In which case no matter what you do to the copy you got back (re-encrypt, change password, whatever), they can continue whatever crypto-analysis they want on their image of the data as it was when they first took it. You may be able to protect newly written data, but whatever risk of breaking the encryption on existing data is permanently there once imaging is possible.
    -Get low-level access to your system and somewhere along the chain insert something to dump the key material to them once available. Again, once this is in play, it's already over no matter what you do, if they can dump that table, they can dump the data directly. In this case, let's assume one of those keyboard bugs slashdot had an article a while back was discovered by you in your system. Knowing that your passphrase is potentially compromised, with the key not based directly on the password, but just encrypted by the password, you can re-encrypt the key once the bug is removed and shred the old slot, and their keylog data becomes useless for the purposes of defeating your filesystem encryption. If the master key is essentially whatever you typed, you are significantly more hosed.

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    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  46. 10 digit alphanumeric?? by Junta · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wuss, my passwords are almost always inclusive of non-alpha/non-numerical values and are at least 10 characters long. My strategy is ofter to randomly hit buttons without looking, making generous use of the shift key on the number keys...
    Example: cS#e(k5L@^
    (note: not an actual password, but generated in the same way I generate passwords)
    Maybe I'm >50% autistic then since I can remember these...

    On some occasions I wuss out and if appropriate to the password parsing/entry technology, make a mostly coherent sentence 64 characters long or so, which I believe is still an order of magnitude more secure than a mere 10 characters of even complete garbage, but it is much quicker to type 10 garbage characters than a whole sentence...

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  47. FileVault by Kadin2048 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Easy solution; don't keep stuff like movies in your home folder. I can't really imagine any reason why those would need to be encrypted, and as you discovered, doing so does carry a large performance penalty.

    On my systems, I have symlinks set up between ~/Music and /Users/Shared/Music and ~/Movies and /Users/Shared/Movies; this keeps FileVault from encrypting my iTunes music library or my movie collection. It also means that on a multiuser system, other users can access the movies and music, without me having to enter my password or give them access to the rest of my files. (Actually I now have the movies and music on another drive.)

    If you do it this way, FileVault doesn't carry too huge a performance hit. It also has the advantage of allowing you to back up your documents in a secure fashion pretty easily: you log in as a different user, and just back up the File Vault sparseimage as a single file.

    The "do you want to recover space" logout screen is fairly obnoxious, agreed; I hate it just because it stops the shutdown process with a dialog that requires human interaction. I wish it had some sort of a 30-second-countdown-to-default timer, so that if I hit "shutdown" and walk away, the process doesn't get hung up and just sit there, unsecured, forever.

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  48. Re:Some data and personal perspective on that poin by lky · · Score: 4, Informative

    For anyone that wants to experiment with Debian, DM-Crypt and Luks, check out the howtos and/or the USB installer at http://feraga.com./

    I've been running lately from a USB Flash Drive (1GB) with everything but /boot encrypted for over a year and haven't had a issue. I'm sure its a little slower but dont notice it much.

    This also allows you to leave a full installation with no private or incriminating data on the hard drive so if they ask to see the laptop......just let them.

  49. It is not a pain if you have FUSE by Pausanias · · Score: 4, Interesting
    No. You should read up on a nifty module (included in the mainline kernel) called FUSE. It lets a you mount various devices/files as private file systems.

    The most incredibly useful application of this is sshfs, which basically lets you mount a remote machine as a filesystem without being root (as long as the FUSE kernel module is loaded). This has caused a huge productivity increase for me.

    There is also an encrypted file system that runs under FUSE

    http://arg0.net/users/vgough/encfs

    So, you basically can have a big encrypted file lying around which you mount as a file system when you need it. The keys are encrypted in a separate control file, so there are no unencrypted keys lying around. You need both the pass phrase and the encrypted key file to mount the big file as an FS.

    Encrypted filesystems require your boot partition have the encryption keys unencrypted so that they can be read, which sort of mitigates the whole point.
  50. Full-Disk vs. File System encryption by billstewart · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Obviously you want to encrypt your user data directories or filesystems, and you may want to encrypt your swap (depending on your threat model.) On Unix, there's no particular need to encrypt most of the file systems that programs live in (e.g. /usr can be read-only unencrypted, though /var should be encrypted.)

    The reason to encrypt the whole drive as opposed to the writable sections is simply convenience - if you've got hardware assistance, it's probably designed to encrypt the whole disk using some crypto chip in the disk controller, and administratively simpler to use, and if you don't have that, it's probably easier to encrypt individual partitions or filesystems, or sometimes directories, rather than hack up some CPU-based driver that encrypts the whole disk.

    From a performance standpoint, it's probably faster *not* to encrypt your program filesystems, and as far as encrypting swap goes, you took the big hit when you started to swap anyway, and rotational+seek latency is usually more of a limitation than overall throughput, so if this bothers you, but some more RAM. Encryption chips on the disk controller are probably faster than CPU software drivers, but not necessarily - your mileage is extremely variable.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  51. Why is the data on a laptop in the first place? by nologin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's the question that needs to be answered... A security-minded entity (corporate, government, personal) has to ask that question and seriously look at the risk vs. reward of storing the data on a portable device. If the entity in question doesn't look at this perspective of the issue, they ultimately don't care about security in general or enforcing a data storage policy in particular.

    When I do consulting work (especially with regards to security), I often compare putting sensitive data on a laptop to putting the company's main database directly accessible on the Internet and hoping that whoever attacks it can't exploit it or guess a username/password combination. That will usually scare a few people into thinking about what they are doing, and the others who think that it is alright probably deserve nothing less than getting hacked.

    As for disk encryption, it works well IF it is transparent to the user and IF the overall security is indeed strengthened by such encryption, because a weak link like a poor password adds no actual security value where it is expected.

  52. SUSE Howto for encrypted root by Burz · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Re:SUSE Howto for encrypted root by gripen40k · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or for windows try Truecrypt (I think there is a linux version as well). It works like a dream, and there are some really niffty features (like addition of plausible deniability). It's pretty cool.

      --
      Har?
  53. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  54. nonsense by Tom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We don't encrypt the entire disk because it's total utter nonsense (except if you try to sell a product).

    Most of the data on most machines is neither secret nor special - it's the OS and applications binaries, libraries, graphics, etc.

    Encrypting /home (or /Users for us Mac-heads) is sufficient for most machines. So look into system settings and Security and you'll find File Vault. Activate, done. No need to buy some snakeoil some idiot is trying to sell (*).

    (*) and he's conveniently not telling you that encryption isn't the end-all solution. There are plenty of ways of breaking even the best crypto without actually breaking it. Getting the key is often easy because people write it down or treat it carelessly.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  55. Hardware encryption is the solution by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Informative

    For years now, it has been possible to get hardware encryption for ATA drives that operates at above maximum ATA spec speed, i.e. it is totally transparent and does not cause any reduction in performance.

    The cheap stuff only uses 3DES and they key is a USB thumb drive type device, not very secure. But you can get AES capable devices which use password hashes supplied by the BIOS. Something like this... http://www.enovatech.net/products/mx_info.htm

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