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iPod Alternatives for Mac OS X?
pazu13 writes "I had a first-generation iPod which treated me badly and finally died, after roughly two years of use. I bought another one last year, but after a battery failure several months ago and a sad iPod icon this morning, I think it's time to take my business elsewhere. However, I own a Mac (which has treated me well), and Apple's market dominance seems to have driven most competitors from their own platform. XNJB appears to provide Mac-users more freedom of choice, but outside of this does anyone have a good recommendation for a non-Apple Mac OS X-compatible MP3 player?"
I personally have gone through probably half a dozen or so mp3 players and I have to say I'm very pleased with my Cowon. Cowon makes one of the best sounding mp3 players around and is guaranteed to work with both Mac and Linux. The storage space on their flash based players is a little small, but otherwise I really can't complain.
I imagine you've seen the official list of compatible players for iTunes on OSX
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...used to support almost every mp3 player out there, not sure if the new mac version of iTunes still does.
Sig: I stole this sig.
The iRiver H3x0 is very affordable, has great community support, has easily replaceable batteries and hard drives, and runs Rockbox like a MFing champ.
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If you just want something you can use with a Mac, that's easy: get any music player that supports being mounted as a removable disk and having music added to it via the Finder (or other filesystem utility).
If, on the other hand, you want a player that syncs with iTunes like an iPod does... that's probably harder to find.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Maybe what we need is an open source MP3 player. Any takers?
So you had a 1st generation ipod, and it died. So then you bought another 1st gen ipod, and it too died. Gee, ya think maybe it's time to upgrade to a 5th gen??
Some of those MP3 players doesn't require special software, you just plug it in and drag over mp3 files from itune. :)
I've just had my fifth iPod die of hard-drive failure. This one finally outlasted the three month replacement warranty*, so I won't be getting it replaced for free.
I don't think it's the iPod. I think that certain people generate iPod destroying fields, and I'm one of them.
Seriously, I've met one other guy (at the Apple service centre) with the same problem (he was on his third iPod), but every other iPod owner I know has never had trouble.
I may risk buying a Shuffle - it's cheaper, with no moving parts.
*So did the first, but it died within the initial 12 month warranty.
|>
Here be Dragons
What library-management programs would a Rockbox-based player work with on OS X?
Anything that requires manually managing music using the Finder is a huge drag.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I have a creative Zen Neeon, better sound quality than an ipod shuffle plus you get a screen (I paid the same price for both one year apart and got 6 gigs in the zen compared to 1 in the shuffle). Just plug it in and copy music to it as if it were a thumb drive (disclaimer: I don't know how it handles DRMed music, I don't have any but I have heard some complaints about it not handling fairplay too well). I am yet to find a song it wont play
Plus creative supply better headphones than Apple (I tested the creative headphones with an ipod just to make sure).
It doesn't have to be a Creative Mp3 player, just pick any one that acts like a flash disk when you copy music onto it. I've heard good things about iriver. Ipods seem to be about vendor lock-in or as I prefer to call it iLockin and iRestriction.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Your comment history says a lot.
Archos provides an iTunes plugin for their line of MP3 and video players. I'm not confident it'll work for iTunes video transfers (but it might), but it works fine for MP3s. Just make sure you make the Windows DRM partition very small, and the USB mode is mass storage.
There are many iTunes plugins as well for any mp3 player that appears as a mass-storage device, and a lot of good MP3 players support mass storage mode (for DRM-free music). I believe the Sandisk Sansa appears as a mass storage device. As do the newer satellite radio receivers (like the XM Inno and the Sirius Stiletto).
I think you're in the minority of people to experience two Ipod issues that close together (I know many of you know friends who have Ipod problems, but given how many people have Ipods, that's not saying much).
Coming from the other side of things, I've wished since about week two of owning my Creative Zen Touch (40GB) that I had bought something else. Namely, the Ipod. The company is a pain to deal with if you have support issues. So is their player. Disconnected three times after being on hold 17 minutes each time (HMMM....). If you just want something to listen to music with, their players will work. But don't expect any of the promised firmware updates to fix any issues with the player, so make sure you know all the current problems with it. The problems with mine? Scrolling is horrible. 10x worse than the Ipods (which is perfect). You move your finger down the strip and the UI responds half a second later. On top of the that, it's innaccurate and un-predictable. Sometimes moving your finger a mm will move the song selector one strip, sometimes not at all, and sometimes it'll jump down three. You simply can't select songs safely when you're driving. In contrast, the Ipod's scroll wheel is predictable and goes where you want it. Every single time.
Other issues:
-after about 6 months of use (coming up on my second six months, had to send the first in to fix the harddrive) the "forward/skip" [>>|] button halfway breaks. By that I mean sometimes you want to fast forward in the song (this is another thing I'll get to later) so you have to hold down the forward/skip button until the slider gets to the point in the song you want to listen to...so you let go of the fast forward, and then, strangely, the player skips to the next track. Apparently sometimes taking your finger off this button after having it held down tells the player to stop fast forwarding and skip to the end of the song.
-As for fast forwarding, it's the most un-intuitive design. It isn't easy like on the Ipod, where you press the middle button and then move your thumb around the wheel. When you do this, the Ipod moves the slider that marks what part of the song is playing. You find the part you want, stop moving your thumb on the wheel, press the middle button again, and it plays. On Creative's players, you have to press forward and hold it down for [what feels like, I haven't timed it] 5 seconds to skip 30 seconds. A total PITA. Like to listen to your songs gapless? Be prepared to hold that button down and watch the UI for 15 seconds--(the slider movement speed increases exponentially, which means) when you finally hit the minute mark you want to listen to, you let go and find that it keeps moving ahead for the equivalent of two-ish minutes. Then it starts playing. So until you get used to letting go early, you'll be holding "|" down for another 5 seconds till you get to wherever you wanted. On top of all that, the player doesn't anticipate "jee, you know, this guy is scrolling forward and this part of the song isn't in my memory, I better spin up the harddrive to be ready for it", it waits until you've stopped fastforwarding, and then decides to spin up the harddrive, load that part of the song, and play it. And then if you overshoot where you were fastforwarding to, it does the exact same thing, it stops spinning and waits till you've stopped fastforwarding to spin up the harddrive and load that part of the song (which can't be good for the harddrive anyways, I'm sure this is what broke my first harddrive. Thankfully no problems with the warrant replacement). Like I said, don't expect to use this when you're driving.
-If something about your player breaks, be prepared to pay the shipping costs [and insurance if you want to be safe] on your end as well as $35 (when mine broke this was how much it was, I think it might have changed now) as a "processing" fee.
-good luck finding player covers if you want it protected. There's two that I know of, but they're both only available online. One is leather and costs something like $
Seriously. I bought a Creative Micro June '05. They asked if I wanted the replacement plan and I was like "Why the hell not?" so I spent the 25 bucks on the replacement plan.
Two weeks later, I drop the Micro and the HDD shatters. I take it to Best Buy, say that it doesn't turn on, they told me to go pick out a new one. This was 2 weeks after the 1-gen Nano came out so I got the 4-GB Nano. I use it for a while, but the thing gets scratched to all hell within a month.
Solution? Drain the battery and say it doesn't work again. Get a new iPod (and splurge for a case).
Then, battery life starts to go downhill around March of this year. Again, drain the battery until it doesn't turn on. Get a new iPod. However, I had to pay the $12 to keep the Product Replacement Plan.
Then, the new Nanos came out. I was getting sick of the scratching issues with these, so I took it to Best Buy and said that the memory was corrupted. Naturally the blonde at the service counter had no clue what I was talking about so she said to go pick out a new one. Now, since my iPod was $250 at the start, I technically had $250 credit. So I got the 8 GB Nano. Spent the $12 to keep the Product Replacement Plan.
So, I've had a total of 5 MP3 players for the grand total of $299.
Not bad, huh?
I kill watches, bad. Just like that lady with the computers. Luckily I don't kill computers but any small gadget that I attempt to carry around just goes bad real soon. I have my GF carry the cellphone all the time or I kill those, too. Cannot explain it, but have experienced it enough now to know it is not me being physically abusive to the devices, stuff is expensive! It's something else. Weirdness but I have adjusted to it.
Try these folks; IPod Rescue who are the same as Powerbook Rescue and who fixed my clamshell iBook in 2002 and it has stayed fixed!
Dog is my co-pilot.
Not bad, huh?
Yeah, dude! Insurance fraud is amazing!
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
If you don't like iPods, that's your decision. But batteries and hard drives are third-party components that will probably fail about equally across all MP3 players, so you can't really attribute your problems to specific deficiencies in the iPod design.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Amarok runs very well for me from Fink (FINALLY! Thanks RangerRick et. al. who made that happen), and Amarok supports the 3 or 4 MP3 players I've tried just fine (Archos and iPod mainly are what I've used).
I have 1.4.4, after many fits and starts with bad libxine1, etc, everything seems to have evened out and it works.
Give it a shot.
I like music
If it's a first generation iPod, it's 5 years old. Sure, you might have only had it for two years, but in the end, it's 5 years old.
Getting something other than an iPod so you can be a cool emo kid standing out from the herd won't make you look cool - there are plenty of people who don't buy iPods for the same reasons.
You have a Mac, there's a perfectly good solution - it's called buying another iPod. Just deal with the fact they break eventually.
Keep in mind Rockbox doesn't support the "newest" 30GB video, 80GB video and 2nd-gen Nano because Apple changed controller chips and the Rockbox gang has yet to decipher it.
No sig for you!!
Nearly all of the ones that come with the MP3 players are utter crap. These look sweet and sound sweeter. Highly recommended.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
I'm sorry you got burned, but the iPod is worth a 2nd (3rd?) chance. I have no idea what happened with your original iPod, but a short life can fairly be called a fluke. Your current iPod is probably a 4G (clickwheel) unit based on its age. For those of us exposed to iPods day-in and day-out, the "661-3178" shirt is a killer inside joke for a reason. As of now, though, the iPods Apple is selling are great. Small, high-capacity, long battery life, and above all great build quality. Get AppleCare if you're nervous about it. I don't see many of the 5G or nanos for service at all, even though the iPod has had the biggest sales year ever.
I'm posting this anonymously since I can't really be saying any of it without being fired or worse, so I can't force you to believe me. I really believe every word, though.
I can recommend the iAudio's by Cowon. I own a M3 for almost 2 years now and especially in combination with my AKG K 26 P headphones it is great. If your're looking for excellent sound, this is the way for you to go. My brother owns a newer M5 and is also very satisfied. Plus, it is recognized as a Hard Drive via USB without the need of any special software, so you should't have any problems with your Mac as well.
Always run = ON
You can't go wrong with Archos. They do a nice range of players. I use an aging Archos Gmini 400 (sadly discontinued).
The nice things about them are:
1. Very Good build quality
2. Large variety of players from simple music only to full blown media players.
3. Mount as standard USB mass storage
4. NO DRM what-so-ever
5. Supports mp3, wav, ogg, wma, wmv, divx, xvid (some formats are player dependent)
6. Windows Media Player can sync to it (as can many other freeware library managers)
If my Gmini died, I go straight to the web and buy another Archos, no question.
-Jar.
Together, We Can Make Slashdot Better. I Do NOT Mod ACs. - Check Me Out
I'm still plugging the Rio Karma, even though they're not made anymore. 20 gig hard drive, Ethernet support in the dock (so you can use its internal webserver/java applet to upload songs over your LAN), OGG & FLAC support.. the list goes on. I believe there's an iTunes plugin for Mac users, which is good because the Windows software sucks. You can find these pretty cheap refurbished. I'm pretty sure they're off the retail shelves now.
Have you considered opening it up to see if you could repair it yourself? If what you're dealing with is an HDD failure, the most common cause of such failures in iPods is bad connectivity. It typically sounds and looks the same as a *real* HDD failure, with the HDD starting to spin up, then abrubtly stopping with a click. I opened a friend's "broken" 4th gen with a flat-head screwdriver and secured the cable in place. Hasn't had a problem since.
Gahhh I'm probably so late no one will see this but here is a list of features I want from my next player, I've currently got an old 60GB Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra.
Essentials..
user changeable battery, Zen can
Ogg and FLAC support,
big 60GB + harddrive, Zen has
USB mass storage device,
SPDIF and headphone output
Nice to have but we'll see..
User changeable harddrive, Zen can
OS firmware,
Video player,
The best things about my Zen are the sound quality and the user changeable battery, this is really handy, I have an everyday battery that's old, lives in the device and only works for a few hours (fine for most days) and a new one that lives in the fridge in a tupperware box with some other Li-Ion batteries and a silica gel pack, that lasts about 9 hours, (I do the same thing with my cameras & laptop) its biggest failings are its lack of Ogg / FLAC support, no digital output, and the clunky interface which, Creative may have patented, but Apple implemented better.
Next next gen..
Wifi,
support for external display via a digital link,
support for USB keyboard and mouse,
full OS and apps (laptop replacement),
portable game platform
In fact what I want is a cross between that Archos player that had Wifi (PMA400 or 604) and the GP2X but with SPDIF and mini DVI.
In order to save our freedom it was necessary to destroy it.
I have a Nex IA (a Compact Flash-based player) and I recommend against using it with a Mac - OS X always mounts the thing as read-only. I don't know whether the Nex Black (the IA's successor, among other things capable off Ogg Vorbis playback) works with Macs, though.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
You do realize that those RMAA tests are next to worthless, don't you?i Pod_Nano.htm
Those RMAA tests you linked to were not done under load, and therefore are testing everything up to, but not including the amp.
You also see a serious bass rolloff with the eq off, worse than the ipods with a low impedance load.
Check out this:
http://hifiipod.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/
for an iPod tested under the same conditions. Notice how the iPod outscores your Cowon on most every measure.
Here is a series of RMAA tests for the Nano tested as you should - under load.
Here the inability for iPods to drive 16ohm loads properly is shown, but also notice that once again - an iPod running a 32ohm load performs better than an iAudio running no load.
http://prohost.org/~hackie/audio/Nanos.htm
They mount on the desktop and music can be dragged from iTunes onto the drive. Set the iTunes preffs to MP3 and he can use any MP3 player that mounts as a HD.
I have no idea if they work with iTunes, but I just came across these relatively inexpensive Ipod ripoffs, sold through fifthunit, direct-ship from China.
I just ordered one of the shuffle ones last night, so I'll know soon enough. Can't beat it for ~$50 for the 2GB one.
May this post be indexed by spiders, and archived for all to see as my Internet epitaph.
I had a first-gen Shuffle, which my father is now using, but it's still going. I now have a first-gen nano, and it's still going with no issues. (The second-gen nano doesn't really offer that many new features, so I haven't upgraded. I'm still waiting for the iPhone.) In spite of your bad experience, I'd suggest another iPod, but perhaps spring for the AppleCare plan this time.
Sent from my iPhone
I have an Archos Studio 10 and it won't mount with OS X anymore. In the past I've experienced many freeze-ups to the whole OS when the Archos was attached or copying files to/from my Mac. I've had some succcess with OS 9 still. Archos no longer offers Mac drivers for this product.
I think my only alternative now is to attach it to a PC for reformatting and ebay it.
-- Boycott Shell
You know what? You're Right.
I have the SanDisk m250, and I am very pleased with it. It attaches as either a USB Mass Storage device or an MTP device, uses AAA battery, has FM radio, etc. It works great with OS X, Linux, Windows, and just about anything else that supports USB Mass Storage (what doesn't, these days?). I highly recommend it.
Of course what you really want is an iPod.
Everything else is a kludge with imaginary technical (and otherwise) support and weak-or-broken-to-the-point-of-amusing interfaces.
In fact, in these days of disposable electronics on all frontiers, I don't understand at all why going through two iPods over several years is reason or cause to 'take your business elsewhere,' unless you're just pouting over the same thing that two hundred and eleventy trillion other people deal with daily.
I'm also on my third iPod, and having tried other players (I was a pre-order customer for the very first portable mp3 player), I wouldn't touch anything else with a ten-foot pole.
-- Eli Juicy Jones
Any player that looks like a removable drive to the computer AND plays the tracks loaded onto it through that interface can be used with iTunes or any other media player on any platform. I used a non-iPod flash player for three years before the iPod Shuffle came out, using a smart playlist to create a random selection of tracks that fit on my player, and then dragged the whole playlist to the virtual drive to play.
(this is where I "invented" (independently at least) the iPod shuffle... I feel that it's a pretty obvious idea, and I was kind of ticked off at Steve Jobs unnecessary jabs at flash players when the iPod Mini was announced)
I currently don't use a player because I gave my iPod to my daughter, but I'm also considering a new device and thinking about third party players because I dislike the "click wheel" intensely. I have no need to play DRM-infested files on it (all my iTMS purchases are backed up to audio CD, as recommended by Apple), so whether it's got Microsoft's, Sony's, or Apple's DRM support (or none at all) is irrelevant.
So, what's out there that has (a) a bulk storage interface for loading and managing music, and (b) a decent control layout? A d-pad or 3-way thumb-control plus a *single* button cluster would be ideal.
weak-or-broken-to-the-point-of-amusing interfaces.
That's the iPod, for me. Except the click-wheel is not "amusing". The emotion it invokes in me when I use it is closer to "blinding rage" than "amusement".
Here's a device you're going to shove in your pocket, and you're going to want to hit things like the volume controls and the pause and skip button by feel, and so what's the interface? A touch-sensitive wheel (so you have to lock it when you're not using it) that requires you to look at the screen to see what the touch-sensitive areas mean at any given moment.
The only thing dumber would be an iPod with a touch-screen interface.
The hard drive has been cited as the weak link with iPods. If the replacement player is to have similar capacity, it will also need to have a hard drive.
How much more reliable will that hard drive be compared to the ones fitted in an iPod ?
Among my friends, family and aquaintances, almost universally, those who use hard drive-based players experience many more failures than those who use flash-based players, regardless of brand. My wife and I own four iPods, a 1st gen Shuffle, 2nd Gen Shuffle, 1st gen mini, and a 2nd gen nano (we use the Shuffles for workout, and the mini and nano otherwise). That's three flash and one hard drive, and we've have had no failures. However, the minis, with their CF form factor drive seem to hold up better than the Toshiba OEM drives in the full size iPods. I also plan to upgrade the mini to a 8GB compact flash soon, mostly for the increased capacity, but I heard battery life improves as well.
The battery issue in iPods is what evs. All rechargeable batteries eventual fail. The more you use a rechargeable battery the sooner it wears out. iPod users tend to use their iPods alot, so their batteries wear out sooner. Get over it.
The hard drive issue is real. Apple should insist Toshiba fix the reliability issues. Even though I have been accused of being an Apple fanboy, I wouldn't mind seeing a class-action suit against Apple to force them to own up to the high failure rate. But my experience suggests that other hard drive-based players experience high failure rates too. Hard drives are just not well suited to a mobile device like an iPod (you know what I mean, we don't treat out laptops like we treat music players... would you trust a hard drive in your cell phone?). So I have decided not to buy ANY other hard drive-based player until reliability improves markedly. When I suggest players to people, I always mention the capacity vs. reliabilty tradeoff of hard drive vs. flash players. If the person insists on buying the hard drive player, I recommend the extended warranty, again, regardless of brand.
Since all iPod batteries tend to fail in the first two years, and since Apple charges $99 to replace the battery, but only $59 for a two year warranty, it seems prudent to me to buy the extended warranty on all iPods (except the $79 Shuffle). Basically, look at it as saving $40 on your inevitable battery replacement and getting a warranty on the rest of the iPod for free.
So if you really want to switch off iPods, I still suggest you avoid hard drive-based players, otherwise you are likely to face the same reliabilty issues. But if capacity and/or video is not an issue, I think the new nano will prove to be the most reliable iPod to date. It has the tough aluminum exterior that held up so well on the original mini, and the solid-state guts that have proven so reliable in flash-based iPods. Spells winner to me.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from Macintosh...
Personally I have a Creative Zen Vision:M and its about the best there is in my opinion. I have been in the market for one for years and the Ipod never even crossed my mind, why pay 100 dollars more (price is listed the same as the ipod, but a little froogleing can get you 100 dollars off easy) when I can get something that produces better sound and thousands more colors on the screen? The video playback is fantasic and the music quality is insane. I recomend it highly.