Slashdot Mirror
HP Pays $14.5M to Make Civil Charges Disappear
theodp writes "The California Attorney General's Office negotiated a $14.5 million payoff from HP as part of a settlement that calls for the state not to pursue civil charges related to the now infamous spy scandal against the company and its current or former officers or directors (felony criminal charges against five individuals still remain). HP also agreed to maintain the watchdog positions of chief ethics officer and chief privacy officer for five years."
And I thought corruption only occurred on HP CD burners.
"Normal" people go to jail.....
Sigh, could you not even bother to read the summary properly? What part of "felony criminal charges against five individuals still remain" do you find difficult to grasp?
Ah, the wonderful Land Of The Fee.
When do they remodel the blindfold on the statue of justice so it's slipped and she can wink and look suggestively at her back pocket?
Such are the consequences of giving human rights to corporations.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
People still might. The AG isn't waiving rights to press criminal charges against indiviuals, and in fact is pressing ahead with at least five cases, including against Dunn.
This actually doesn't seem like a terrible thing to me. A civil case against HP would be an enormous burden on the state of California, drag on for years, and by the virtue of the sheer size of HP, be unlikely to result in anything more than a wrist-slap. This settlement gets HP to admit to wrongdoing, puts some measures in place (pathetic though they may be) to try and keep them from doing it again, and not only saves the state money, but gives them a warchest to go after the real villains in this case: the executives who felt that the shield of incorporation gave them the right to condone and engage in unethical behaviour.
Qualifications:
ETHICS OFFICER
1. Own fancy suits
2. can swat people with rolled-up newspaper while shouting "BAD KITTY, BAD!"
3. will hunt down and execute people responsible for deep-sixing the good RPN calculators.
PRIVACY OFFICER
1. Own fancy suits
2. can swat people with rolled-up newspaper while shouting "NO LOOKING!"
3. will institute manditory privacy screens for erotic interweb browsing.
Here in holland, where bikes are stolen as a kind of national sport it would be like: Steal 1 bicycle. get caught, go straight to jail. Steal a hundred bicycles, get caught, return 5 of them, say you are sorry, and that it was too easy and get a 'responsible citizens award' because you cooperated with the law.
The case did only involve a civil complaint, so it probably would have ultimately ended up with a financial settlement and some sort of compromised "corrective" measures like we see here, but I really think this is an injustice for the people who had their identities and privacy compromised, and for HP shareholders in the long run. The evidence that senior executives at HP, potentially including Mark Hurd, either ignored or were ignorant of the ongoing, "probably illegal" actions is pretty well documented, and pretty overwhelming.
Patricia Dunn took pretty much all the heat for this, and that's unfortunate for her and HP. It seems to me like she should have had a better grip on what was happening at HP, but it doesn't seem to me like she should have been the only one with that responsibility. A full, objective, and independent investigation should have been the first think on everybody's list. Instead, this case is now settled, Congress has moved on, and Dunn will be focussed on proving her innocence.
The unfortunate thing for Mark Hurd is that his level of responsibility and accountability wasn't determined in this process. The second HP hits a performance blip, this scandal will be the first thing on every shareholder's mind when they're thinking of who to blame. When that day comes, I wouldn't want to be in Mark Hurd's shoes.
--
justen
justen.blogspot.com
Chief Ethics Officer? In a company like HP? That's going to be a boring job.
On the plus side, I guess you can have "CEO" on your business cards.
The problem is two-fold, its not just that corporations have so much money but also the courts really need money. The judicial system is very expensive to run, if they can save the costs of an enitre trial and just get a wad of cash from the corporations, they're going to try and get it. We can reduce the problem by funding the courts better.
Demented But Determined.
and that is the point.
It's not just HP that do this kind of thing, it's what Governments (your servants) are up to all over the world every day.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
No, they engaged in illegal behavior. Not everything that is unethical is illegal. See our current political system and the campaign finance system that supports it. Tell me what is ethical about the fact that elected Senators and Congressman don't even bother to read most of the bills they vote on. They don't even write the bills anymore, their staffers do. You know, the same staffers who will eventually leave to take high paying jobs with lobbying firms after paying their dues writing bills that are friendly to the interest those lobbyist represent. Completely unethical, 100% legal.
In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see most of these five individuals get what amounts to a slap on the wrist after a large donation or two is made to the proper re-election campaign committees or PACs. Sure one of them will have the book thrown at them so it appears action is being taken. Probably the lowest person on the totem pole. Then, after the smoke clears from that conviction suddenly the state will find no compelling reason to drag these remaining cases out. The poor defendants will have been put through enough. A small fine and 6 months probation will suddenly be more than enough punishment. After all, their names will have already been drug through the mud. That punishment alone will have done more damage than anything they state could do. They will have learned their lessons. I can see it now. What a joke.
"Normal" people go to jail.....
Here's a hint. TFA refers to a civil case. Criminal cases are treated separately, sort of like winning a divorce case doesn't mean you get the kids; typically, you have to slug it all over again in a custody case.
Criminal law (also known as penal law) is the body of statutory and common law that deals with crime and the legal punishment of criminal offenses. There are four theories of criminal justice: punishment, deterrence, incapacitation, and rehabilitation. It is believed that imposing sanctions for the crime, society can achieve justice and a peaceable social order. This differs from civil law in that civil actions are disputes between two parties that are not of significant public concern.
On the other hand, using the above definition, it's an open question as to why this guy is still playing golf after he won his criminal case, but subsequently lost his civil case.
but the Scientologists had (have?) a Watchdog Committee and Ethics Officers and we can all trust them now can't we...
What I don't understand is - whose coffers does the money go to? How is this money then used? Why does the company have to pay the state or whoever $14.5 million dollars for something that was, though illegal, done internally in the company. It did not affect any external parties, the state etc. And what does the article mean by The AG's office 'negotiated' a settlement? ... but what do I know?
Sounds like open bribes to me
Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
Thats ridiculous - the shareholders must pay for the directors' irresponsilibity?
And since when was it possible to settle criminal cases! ridiculous
nuke california
SURELY NOT!!!!!
Before all the knee jerk reactions start (too late for that) stating this is unfair or a travesty of justice, it is not. This is simply an out of court settlement for a civil case. Anyone could have done the same thing.
For example: My neighbor wants to sue me in civil court for some perceived wrong doing. I go to my neighbor and say "Listen, instead of dragging this thing to court why don't I pay you X sum of money and agree to not do it again." My neighbor could accept the settlement and be done with it.
If what I had done was also criminal then the appropriate authorities could still pursue criminal charges against me, but my neighbor would be finished with me.
That is all that happened here, nothing more.
The summary is very misleading in the way that it describes HP as paying money to make the case disappear. This wasn't a criminal case where they were buying off a judge to rule favorably. This was a civil matter. and 99 times out of 100, civil matters are about one thing: money. They can either pay money in the settlement, pay money as a result of a judgment from a trial, be dismissed through a motion, or be found not guilty from a trial. Settlement is COMMON, because it allows both sides to save costs from not having to pay for a costly trial. And trials are MUCH more costly than most of what happens pre-trial.
This isn't some back-alley dealing, it's one legitimate and often used method of resolving civil disputes quickly and cost-effectively. And on top of that, it means that HP can't appeal the decision because they agreed to it. If the case had gone to trial and verdict and resulted in a decision HP didn't like, they could have appealed and kept the case going for years without resolution, while at the same time increasing both their costs and the costs of the state in trying the case.
Martha Stewart committed what most would consider a minor fraud. She was a very rich woman at the head of a very large corporation. She still went to jail.
In case you didn't notice, criminal charges are still pending in this HP case.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
How on earth can anyone actually feel free in a country where citizens are put behind bars for minor fraud, while businesses like HP (which are actually run by REAL people!!) can pay-off a judge while calling it 'being sanctioned'?
It's called a CIVIL case. If you're not familiar with the American legal system you probably don't know how far off base you are. You can not be "put behind bars" in a civil case. This is a case to determine liability in terms of monetary damages. The criminal case will still happen and that's where people get jailed.
Either you don't know what you're talking about or you're just a troll.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
When did impersonating a law enforcement officer get redefined as "pretexting". The former is a criminal offense and the latter is revisionist bullshit. There should be criminal charges for every person involved in this idiotic farce.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
The appointment of a Chief Ethics Officer means you'll need to complete online training every year to ensure that you understand the ethical dimensions of your job.
Here's an example verification, which I found by hacking one of the servers:
Suppose a supplier offers to bribe you with a pair of World Series tickets to increase your purchases from his company. Should you:
a) Say yes! Baseball is America's game, and give-and-take is good business.
b) Refuse the offer and report the incident to top management
c) Ask about the seats. Might as well watch the game on HDTV if it's the bleachers, but infield grandstand starts to get interesting
d) Giants in the Worlds Series? AHAHAHAHAHA
For some reason slashdot requires the facts to be stated and restated in multiple posts without actually changing anyones opinion on anything (mostly because they read only what confirms their own worldview anyway).
Apparently you dont know about NCR after AT&T with respect to the leadership under Nyberg. Carly seems to be off the radar as well. Nor do you seem to remember how far they went to keep her.
However much you trust the effectiveness is irrelevant. You keep an eye on them if you're that worried.
With HP's history on Carly Fiorina, they warrant such scrutiny. Also, Hurd's time at NCR under Lars Nyberg validates it even more if these actions were allowed to happen.
my question for the cynics: If this is bad 'justice', what should've happened?
A penalty that cannot be passed on to downstream parties outside of HP. Ideally it would be something that is passed on directly to those responsible, allowing the less ethically challenged parts to continue operating.
With multiclass shares and stock dilution as possible weapons, I doubt that avenue could be used if you're viewed as a hostile person with a ton of cash.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
No, it's not. It's a consequence of the corporate veil and the general unwillingness to pierce it. The veil is considered sacred because it empowers the members of a corporation to take risky, productive steps in the face of possible backlash -- be it legal or financial.
The veil is further justifiable by realizing that corporations encourage sociopathic groupthink, by their very nature... and so their members are (to some degree) excused for doing so. I say "to some degree" because as the felony charges in this case demonstrate, members are not excused for the serious stuff.
Another way to look at it is to state the issue in your terms: the veil is the way that a corporation's members pool their human right to free association. The veil essentially announces to the world "If you wish to associate with any of our number, then you do agree to do so by treating us as collective and unseverable". The law gives force to this agreement by standardization, and this results in efficiency gains all around.
Of course it also results in sociopathic behavior... but that is a cost and it usually compares favorably to the yield.
FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
Martha Stewart committed what most would consider a minor fraud. She was a very rich woman at the head of a very large corporation. She still went to jail.
A lot of the Enron people were convicted too. These were invariably very wealthy, VERY well-connected people.
stupidity. Jeez folks, how bout we find a moderator that at least understands what CIVIL case means.
I'm all for routing out corruption and all that jazz, but this is an issue of civil law.
They're in high dudgeon and don't want to be confused with facts.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
It's not because this person got spied on, it is because the people in charge at HP were willing to spy on her. Here in the US, the republicans that have been in power for the last 4 years have believed that regulating companies was bad and that people should do it with their wallets. That is what I am doing. HP showed me their lack of morality, I am going to show them and other corporations that I don't tolerate that. I know that I am just one person, but I figure that there are probably a bunch of others doing the same thing, and that this is helping them.
The result(though it may or may not be significant), will be that it is in the best interest of companies to obey ethics.
Disagree with me? Tell me why, but follow these rules.
For every Martha Stewart and Enron exec you have a thousand faceless men who, despite having committed all manner of crimes against humanity, die with their reputations intact, gold star sill next to their names, their life history free of any indication of wrongdoing.
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
As an ex-HP employee, I wish that they could get rid of their many layers of largely bad management for a paltry sum of 14.5 million. It would be cheap at twice the price.
Somebody needs to mod the AC parent up!
"HP also agreed to maintain the watchdog positions of chief ethics officer and chief privacy officer for five years."
...
Especially because their previous one (and also their general counsel) were involved in the pre-texting scandal
Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
...any more than they were before; they were never criminally charged, they were civilly charged, which meant, if they lost, they would pay a fine. By settling, they paid a fine and were subject to specific conduct controls.
HP surrendered, they didn't get away.
I guess everyone has their price. Perhaps someone can calculate what percentage of HP's net worth is $14.5 million so others could use that same percentage to settle their civil suits with CA ...
I'm guessing it would be *very* affordable. :-)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
"Normal" people go to jail...../eM?
Not in civil cases they don't.
This was a civil case, and HP essentially settled. If the case had gone on and HP lost, all that would have happened is that they would have paid a slightly larger amount of money. This action also applies only to the State of California. It doesn't stop any other party from continuing/seeking a lawsuit over the matter.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
14.5 million???? That's *IT*???
But then, this is the most corrupt state in the union, what more do you want? *shakes head*
Sorry man... the Internet pooped on me.
Clearly not those who are responsible!
THe fine gets paid by the shareholders and customers and perhaps a few low level employees who get fired. The fine is not paid by those who are guilty.
--
As part of the settlement [...] HP will "finance a new law enforcement fund to fight violations of privacy and *intellectual-property* rights"
--
So... HP is to give money to RIAA/MPAA?
HP burns 11.5 million dollars on shredder oil per year. this settlement means nothing to HP, which remains the poster boy for no ethics in business for spying like Putin.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
The entity HP is a company name employing thousands selling billions. The guilty party is a fired executive and a few fired co-horts. Should the Company name suffer forever because one of the many people to hold a certain position was a crackpot? The company name HP can not be corrupt because it is just a name. Oh yeah, and the illuminati is a farce.