Adult Brains Grow From Specialist Use

Xemu writes "Researchers at University College of London's Institute of Neurology have discovered that taxi drivers grow more brain cells in the area associated with memory. Dr Eleanor Maguire says, 'We believe the brain increased in gray matter volume because of the huge amount of data memorized.' She warns against the use of GPS and says it will possibly affect the brain changes seen in this study. This research is the first to show that the brains of adults can grow in response to specialist use." London cabbies, unlike their American counterparts, have to learn the layout of streets and the locations of thousands of places of interest in order to get a license.

Comments

Like every other muscle

[LiquidCoooled]

If you train it and work with it it will grow and remain strong.

My bulging typing fingers and keen google-foo are testament to that.

Re:Like every other muscle

[Average_Joe_Sixpack]

If you train it and work with it it will grow and remain strong.

My right arm and wrist are stronger than my left ... not sure how it ever got that way.

Re:Like every other muscle

[rolfwind]

Interesting you mention typing. I touch-typed with a regular QWERTY keyboard for at least 10 years, and two years back, I switched to the DVORAK layout. These days, people look at me in disbelief if they know I can program computers, but I start fumble with a regular keyboard. My muscle memory has completely changed over to dvorak and I can't type QWERTY worth a damn. I am a relatively quick learner (learned fluent dvorak by forcing it on myself in 8 hours of concentration) too.

My mother used to be fluent in French, being a translator. She hasn't used the language in 20 years. She has almost forgotten it completely as she can't make sentences so easily. (Though I am sure she can get back into it 100x faster than a newcomer).

It is almost like the brain is a muscle. After Terry Shiavo died, the autopsy found that her brain shrunk to the size of grapefruit.

I wonder if there is a correlation of speed of learning and speed of forgetting and the brains that "erase" (or shove aside) old info faster take in new information easier.

Re:Like every other muscle

[chgros]

First time I've seen the brain called a muscle.

Re:Like every other muscle

[PrinceOfStorms]

Unfortunately, research shows that the development of expert memory skills (such as those developed by chess players) doesn't generalize to other domains. There is considerable research showing that while strong chess players are better at recalling actual chess positions, they are no better than amateurs at remembering random chess positions (the assumption being that they have better chunking mechanisms and so can store positions more efficiently, but random positions are not easily compressed in that manner). In other words, the drivers may be great at remembering locations and routes, but it seems unlikely that this will help them remember their grocery list. While I despair at the use of calculators in schools because they prevent the development of useful skills (like being able to work out if you can actually afford those extra groceries), the use of navigation systems doesn't seem likely to prevent the drivers from developing anything useful other than the ability to navigate the streets without such a system.

Re:Like every other muscle

[spoco2]

Just as a question, have you found the switch to DVORAK to be worth it? I mean, with the losing the agility on pretty much every other keyboard around, do the benefits really outweigh that loss?

Re:Like every other muscle

[Lord Ender]

That is a stupid statement. The mechanism by which muscles grow, and the mechanism by which brain cells organize/reproduce are ENTIRELY different.

Re:Like every other muscle

[Anonymous Coward]

I know the answer... you got a Wii!!

Re:Like every other muscle

[rolfwind]

Yes, pretty much - I mean I can generally type faster (English) than before and the pain in my wrists went away (it usually happened while typing long letters with QWERTY). For programming, the characters like semicolon, brackets and stuff may be about the same as QWERTY as DVORAK in convenience, as DVORAK was not generally made for that.

It presents no problem on my computers (Ubuntu, Mac OSX, Windows XP) as they all can switch your layout in software. The worst operating system with this is actually Microsoft's because when you switch keyboard layout from the default on the toolbar, it changes it for one application instead of system wide. But this problem only crops up if you have multiple users who use different layouts on the same profile constantly. OS X and Ubuntu is real easy in this regard.

For the benefits of dvorak, I just lost the ability to type fast on terminals and my school's computers which don't let me change the keyboard layout for some idiotic reason (they reimage the computers every login or night anyway). But that is an annoyance I put up with infrequently. If someone wants me to fix their computer, they let me change the layout temporarily anyway, which takes all of 30 seconds on any OS.

Also, forgetting QWERTY may just be my problem - I know people who say they can switch between the 2 layouts like someone speaking English and then Spanish without problem. I may have just willfully forgot it to learn the other layout faster and I certainly don't go out of my way to type QWERTY, which could explain it.

There are other layouts which may be better for you, I just picked dvorak because it was the most common alternative sure to be in every OS. The other alternatives, like NEO or de_ergo may not even be in the computer and you'd have to load it in like a driver - and I didn't want that hassle. Read more about your choices here, though it is a pro-NEO article (written by the guy who invented it):

http://pebbles.schattenlauf.de/layout/index_us.htm l

Re:Like every other muscle

[Rakshasa Taisab]

What, are you trying to tell me you don't put both to good use? That's so boring.

Re:Like every other muscle

[sgt_doom]

No, what he's trying to tell us is he hasn't purchased a vibrator yet....

Re:Like every other muscle

[unix_core]

Yeah, and much slower too. I'm sure he also only uses his index-fingers.

Re:Like every other muscle

[jx100]

Hunh, my experience seems to be different. I've been using Dvorak for about three years, and it only takes me a little while to get re-used to a QWERTY. I have to look at the keyboard at first, and I do make a couple minor errors, but in general I can switch back and forth with ease, even with no regular time spent on a QWERTY keyboard.

Re:Like every other muscle

[AmberBlackCat]

Have you been using one of those Wii-motes?

Re:Like every other muscle

[spoco2]

Yes, pretty much - I mean I can generally type faster (English) than before and the pain in my wrists went away (it usually happened while typing long letters with QWERTY). Ah, yeah, the pain in wrists would be about the only thing that would make me switch... which I don't get... so no need for me :)

Re:Like every other muscle

[cytg.net]

or .. perhaps memoryless people are just not very well suited as taxidrivers .. hence there's not alot of them.

Re:Like every other muscle

[Dabido]

'My bulging typing fingers and keen google-foo are testament to that.'

You wouldnt' have that problem if you'd invented the Fingerlong like I have.

Re:Like every other muscle

[faolan_devyn_aodfin]

Well don't you remember gym class when you were a kid and the teacher during the health lessons would say "use it or lose it" and "practice makes perfect." This is exactly the same thing. Your brain is a more than just a muscle, it's the ultimate biological computer. It has the ability to decode and encode complex and evolving algorithms, it can learn new codecs with practice and the more it learns the faster and more efficiently it learns other codecs and patterns.

This is why when I was a kid, Granny was really bad at gaming at first, but she was a very well read and highly intelligent. It took her about a month and she could beat out everyone I know at Tetris or any other Game Boy game. She stayed like this until the lung cancer finally confined her to her bed. Eventually, she was not able to do anything including comprehend a simple conversation.

The fact is that the brain needs stimulation. It needs to have new challenges otherwise you become bored and boredom over any long period of time can lead to mental health issues and eventually loss of intelligence and skills. Most people do not have to deal with this problem because general day-to-day stimulation is enough to keep your brain healthy. However, if you want to be a genius then you have to have a brain that is well exercised.

They key to staying mentally sharp all your life is to simply strive to be better. Eat healthy, exercise, read, write, and do activities that are conductive of creativity and thought and you'll have the same sarcastic wit you have now when you are 102.

Re:Like every other muscle

[Captain Splendid]

Hey, never let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.

Re:Like every other muscle

[Reziac]

So remember, when someone calls you a meathead -- it's a compliment!! ;)

Re:Like every other muscle

[mochan_s]

But, how does the brain grow if it is housed in a skull which does not grow? If you brain actually enlarges and presses against the skull (in case of various things like infection) you get a headache.

I think the mechanisms of the brain are a bit of mystery and it's not a very good idea to fall on one side of the argument.

For example, if you see a mentally retarded person, no matter how much brain stimulation you give him or her, he or she will not get smarter.

On the other hand, there have been twin studies that have showed a considerable genetic influence on intelligence. How smart you are maybe decided n a large percentage at the moment the sperm meets the ovum.

Re:Like every other muscle

[hacker]

Like every other muscle... If you train it and work with it it will grow and remain strong.

I'm sure you already have been told this, but it bears reinforcement:

The brain is NOT a muscle!

Re:Like every other muscle

[Roduku]

For example, if you see a mentally retarded person, no matter how much brain stimulation you give him or her, he or she will not get smarter.

Not true. I worked for awhile at a facility for people with severe retardation. Their mission was to train people with severe retardation to be able to accomplish everyday tasks such as bed making, tooth brushing, dressing themselves, social interaction, etc. Exercises in these activities were conducted daily by staff and documented. While the most severe cases showed little or no change, a large number of clients did achieve a level of independant function that allowed them to move from the facility into a group home in 3 to 5 years. So, while a person with retardation might not learn as quickly as most people, they do learn.

Re:Like every other muscle

[freemywrld]

I don't believe that it is at all a matter of brain "size" that is the issue. They have proven through historical studies that many intellectuals of the past whose brains have been weighed have shown that brain size and intelligence are not related. What they did find, especially in the case of Einstein, was not that his brain was larger or heavier than average, but that when dissected, his brain had many more dendrites than average.

Re:Like every other muscle

[mochan_s]

Learning and routine are different things than intelligence.

As a very blunt measure, the IQ does not go up significantly no matter how many IQ questions are practiced.

What about trivia nuts?

[khasim]

Does memorizing the names and stats of baseball players make your brain grow?

What about people who memorize every little detail of Star Trek?

Or is it that only people with the additional brain mass CAN memorize all those items?

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[FyRE666]

Believe me, anyone who's taken a cab in London probably won't have gotten the impression that a London cabbie's ability to memorize the locations of thousands of streets has anything to do with their towering intellects ;-)

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[HappySqurriel]

Or is it that only people with the additional brain mass CAN memorize all those items?

Trust me, memorization has very little to do with intelligence and more to do with exposure and motivation to memorize a subject ...

I honestly don't think it should be a surprise that working with an area of your brain would increase its "strength." This is (effectively) what practice is ...

Take any person who has never learned a musical instrument before and examine the impact of musical stimulus on their brain. Spend 8 hours a day for the next year teaching them musical theory and composition as well as several instruments and then examine the impact of musical stimulus on their brain. Being that they've practiced and learned a lot about music, one would expect that their brain would suddenly become far more involved in the musical experience.

At the same time, one of the questions of a study like this would be what would the consequence of television be on a person's brain? For the most part television would be training the brain in a way which would not be particularly useful in any pursuit and yet many/most people have a ton of exposure to this influence.

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[nietsch]

Not that I read TFA, but the blurb suggests they tested experienced cabbies, not fresh ones. It would be interesrting to see fresh graduates compared to those who failed the exam. Your hypothesis would suggest that a very sizable portion (the ones with 'normal' size memory regions) would fail for the exam and not try again. That is very testable, how many people ultimately fail this exam? I think it is not a lot, as it would mean that you'd have to throw away all the time you had invested in learning those damn streets, and cabbies in general are not considered ultra smart. If being a cabbie really required you to have a very good memory, that would ultimately be reflected in their popular image like eg a doctor or an engineer.
In other words, if the test was really that hard that it would be highly selective, cabbies in london would be a lot smarter than they are.

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[pilgrim23]

If you consider what a NEW development in the real history of man Writing is, Memorization was not just a good idea, it was all we had! if you look close at the great works of various tribes of man that come from before writing: Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, the poetic Edda, early portions of the Sutras, etc. And if you look at later works such as the Janist Canon and the Koran; Rhyme scheme was the technique used to insure the passage of a piece of information unchanged down through the generations. The Skald, Bard, Dine` Singer, and other such were more then just respected within the tribe. THEY WERE THE TRIBE or, all of the tribe that was not present around the camp fire that cold neolithic evening when real evil lurked beyond the fire light. Tales of your grandfathers or in some cases, tales that remained unchanged down through ages were all we had.
Given the predilection of most hunan cultures to gather in data then burn it to the ground: Alexandria, the Niniveh library of Asur Bani Pal, and countless other examples, memory may be all we have in the future. Get your exercise folks

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[Random BedHead Ed]

That's a good question. It reminds me of the episode of Next Generation where Geordi's VISOR (yeah, it's an acronym - stands for Visual Instrument and Sensory Organ Replacement) causes a subspace disruption because of some odd property of the region of space the Enterprise was traveling through, and Data's positronic brain ... actually I forget how it all ended up.

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[value_added]

I honestly don't think it should be a surprise that working with an area of your brain would increase its "strength." This is (effectively) what practice is

No surprise, yes, but often overlooked or disregarded. There have been studies on the brains of older folks and Alzheimer patients that have shown that people who make an effort to be stimulate their brains in later life (by reading, taking classes, learning music, etc.) tend to fare better than their counterparts. I wonder why it is that when people reach adulthood, they consider such activity as unimportant. Granted, kids are better wired to learn, and are able to absorb everything around them, but still, intellectual laziness can't be any more healthy than any other kind of laziness.

At the same time, one of the questions of a study like this would be what would the consequence of television be on a person's brain? For the most part television would be training the brain in a way which would not be particularly useful in any pursuit and yet many/most people have a ton of exposure to this influence.

Or clicking icons? ;-) I've always held to the theory that the more people rely on GUIs, the less they understand their computers. Being trained to be an office drone may be useful and appropriate, but given that computers are an integral part of our lives, you'd think we'd by trying harder and learning more. Instead, we get Wizards and yes/no/cancel dialog boxes and a general insistence that we don't want to be bothered with thinking because we're too busy. Sounds like we want everything to be just like TV.

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[gad_zuki!]

Depends on the television shows of course. I dont like this general dismissal of an entire medium. When peope say it about the web, the geeks get all up in arms, but the geeks do the same thing to tv.

TV is mostly entertainment. So its really not that different than me driving my ass to the comedy clubs downtown. I'm "engaged" in the same way, yet we dont see so much PC hysteria about this or other forms of entertainment. Well, we do with videogames, but again its a double standard depending on who is complaining. I am much more concerned about the pacing than the content myself. Arguably, too much tv or videogames given to too young of a person can lead to mild attention problems.

Also I think a lot of this "brain strength" and what may or may not come up on some EEG somewhere is a lot of hair-spliting. If one part of the brain lights up more than another that doesnt mean anything if we don't see a correlated human behavior. What if I found a dozen musicians who don't light up the EEG like someone in your example? Are they lesser musicians?

The brain isnt like a muscle. Nor is it like a computer. Its complex enough and not well understood enough to the point where our analogies are more trouble than they are worth. The Mark I brain is surprisingly resilient and the various fearmongering about damaging one's brain through culturally dis-approved activities borders on silliness.

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[bitt3n]

Does memorizing the names and stats of baseball players make your brain grow? What about people who memorize every little detail of Star Trek? Or is it that only people with the additional brain mass CAN memorize all those items?

maybe they are just using their brain in a different way.

Perhaps they are storing those statistics in that part of the brain that in other people makes possible the rational thought processes necessary to prevent them from memorizing Mr. Spock's batting average or whatever in the first place.

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[fahrbot-bot]

What about people who memorize every little detail of Star Trek?

Bones: Dammit Jim. I'm a doctor, not a cab driver!

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[heinousjay]

I think they reversed the tachyon flow through the warp coils

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[aussie_a]

While you're making a joke having a good memory does nothing for your intelligence unless you use your memory to remember intelligent things. As taxi drivers are... well taxi drivers. There's a good chance they haven't used their good memories to remember intelligent things, or else they wouldn't be taxi drivers.

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your hypothesis would suggest that a very sizable portion (the ones with 'normal' size memory regions) would fail for the exam and not try again. That is very testable, how many people ultimately fail this exam? I think it is not a lot, as it would mean that you'd have to throw away all the time you had invested in learning those damn streets, and cabbies in general are not considered ultra smart.

You're way off. 3/10 eventually pass after three years, having tried an average of a dozen times. Couldn't find out how many times or for how long the failed people tried before giving up. (Data from wikipedia)

If being a cabbie really required you to have a very good memory, that would ultimately be reflected in their popular image like eg a doctor or an engineer.

Keep in mind that it's just this one city that requires this sort of preparation. How familiar are you with the image of London cabbies vs. those of the rest of the world?

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[nietsch]

Well you learn sopmething everyday and this is certainly new for me. Thanks for the insight. TFA does not show the raw data so it is inpossible to see if this selection-only might be true, but given these numbers you'd expect 3-9 people with enlarged memory regions in the busdrivers sample. That is something that would be quite evident. Unless offcourse busdrivers that have the capacity to become london cabbies will do that instead of staying busdriver.
They have some progress studies planned, that would show if it is a region that grows from frequent use or if it always stays the same size.

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[Hoi Polloi]

The part of my brain dedicated to checking out cute girls explains this big bump on the side of my head.

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[poot_rootbeer]

Does memorizing the names and stats of baseball players make your brain grow?
What about people who memorize every little detail of Star Trek?

What about people who run and participate in Star Trek-themed "Federation Rotisserie Baseball" leagues?

Re:What about trivia nuts?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a good chance they haven't used their good memories to remember intelligent things, or else they wouldn't be taxi drivers.

The guy from Heroes notwithstanding...

squats

[neurostar]

I prefer squats with my grey matter.

How do they know?

[bogaboga]

'We believe the brain increased in gray matter volume because of the huge amount or data memorized.

Did these scientists have a "control experiment" done? The very usage of the word "believe" scares me. That means that there could be another scientist who might *not* believe.

May be those brain cells grow because of the working environment these taxi drivers find themselves in. In this case, they see so much traffic in their particular work day - maybe.

Re:How do they know?

[ScrewMaster]

Well, ideally there should always be another scientist who doesn't believe ... that's what keeps the bulk of science and its practitioners honest. All this scientist is saying is "here's our interpretation of the data, others will follow with their own interpretations and hopefully more experimental evidence." Doesn't scare me at all: it's the correct attitude. Where I do get nervous is when I hear something along the lines of "we've proven that the brain increased in gray matter because of the huge amount of data memorized." That's decidedly unscientific because it precludes the possibility of being wrong.

Re:How do they know?

[shirai]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Those with a higher brain capacity are precisely the type of people who would choose to become taxi drivers where their increased mental capacity could best be used to advance society.

Re:How do they know?

[zCyl]

Did these scientists have a "control experiment" done? The very usage of the word "believe" scares me. That means that there could be another scientist who might *not* believe.

Welcome to the real world of science, where conclusions are not solid, facts are not certain, and evidence is only an indication. :)

Re:How do they know?

[niconorsk]

From TFA:

In the study, researchers at the Wellcome Trust Centre for Neuroimaging at UCL's Institute of Neurology carried out scans on the brains of 35 cabbies and bus drivers, all men. Various psychological tests were also carried out. Using bus drivers meant that any brain differences found could not be explained by driving stress, or dealing with passengers and traffic in London. The one big difference between the two is that bus drivers stick to routes, while cabbies have to learn the layout of streets and the locations of thousands of places of interest to get an operating licence. So clearly they had thought of that particular possibility. What concerns me though, is how they know that their brain matter has grown rather than just having large memory centers from the start. They should probably do the same experiment with cabbies preparing for their exam and take the measure before and after.

Re:How do they know?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your fears are well founded: as a scientist, I do *not* believe.

Re:How do they know?

[Anonymous Coward]

"believe" is in reference to what they think might underly the result, not to the result itself. You're allowed to speculate as to what you think might underly your results--you don't need a control for that.

Re:How do they know?

[Anonymous Coward]

American researchers have been studying neurogenesis in adult brains for a few years now. The problem is, a good bit of the scientific world until recently didnt believe it was possible for the adult brain to regrow userful cells. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenesis wikipedia article on neurogenesis.

Re:How do they know?

[dfedfe]

> They should probably do the same experiment with cabbies preparing for their exam and take the measure before and after.

That was in the article, too :)

"Dr Maguire said: "We are now looking at the brains of taxi-drivers before they start training, and at those of retired cabbies to see whether that area of the brain gets smaller when it is not used.""

Re:How do they know?

[Lord Ender]

If you want someone to tell you without a doubt what the facts are, then you want religion, not science. Oh, and the facts they tell you will be wrong, but at least they will be confident about it.

Re:How do they know?

[Anne Thwacks]

I live in London, and I agree that learning your way around London traffic is very demanding, especially all those "Blue Book runs", but I suspect its the effect of breathing in diesel fumes all day that make the taxi drivers' brains grow. (It might also be the need to learn to make insulting remarks about other drivers in 47 different languages.)

London cabbies...

[soliptic]

See The Knowledge and the references from there. I think it is only required for taxicab drivers (ie "Black cabs"), not minicab drivers.

Re:London cabbies...

[Anonymous Coward]

minicabs and their drivers are illegal by the very definition. If they were legal, they would be black cabs. Therefore there are no regulations on what they need to know.

That aside, I took a minicab in London once and found it quite amusing. I was at a restaurant with some friends and they suggested a minicab home. I said sure, so they took me to a nightclub nearby and then we just stood outside talking. I was a little confused at this leap of logic, but sure enough, after about 5 minutes of just standing around in a small circle (nobody called or asked for a cab at any point) a very well dressed young man wandered up to us and asked if we would like to go for a drive. We all agreed this would be spendid and got into his late model car. Once the doors were shut and the windows up, the haggling began (no, he didn't really know how to get where we were going) and we were off.

Re:London cabbies...

[runcible]

I'm from NYC, but I lived in London for a year and change around the time there were planes knocking shit over Stateside.

First time in London I get *lost*[0] both well and thoroughly looking for my office[1] and asked for directions several times. A couple of those times I was told "You should ask a cabbie." I honestly thought that this was a creative local way of saying "Fuck right off and leave me alone."

Wasn't until several days later that I realized they were being serious...

--

[0] Some Manahttan residents falsely believe that they are good navigators because they never get lost at home, if any of you are reading this: it's the *numbered streets*, it's not you -- go to a major European city without a map and you'll starve to death before you ever find your hotel again.

[1] For those of you keeping score, it was Southampton Street...NOT in fact the Southampton Buildings, nor Southampton Place, nor even Southampton Row -- all of which are in the same general area and all of which I was directed to at some point.

Re:London cabbies...

[nogginthenog]

Minicabs are not illegal, however they cannot pickup customers from the street (which *is* illegal) - they must be pre-booked. In many parts of London it's almost impossible to get a black cab.

Re:London cabbies...

[steve_l]

One diff between UK and US navigation is that US residents know the street names of all roads they use. To aid this they are often named after presidents or (in portland, or), Simpsons characters.

In the UK ten+ streets in the same area can all take the same first name and vary only on the ending (as you noticed), or be completely randomly named. To stop people learning the names the signs are hidden instead of placed somewhere obvious and illuminated.

In the UK this means that (1) nobody knows where the road you are looking for is, even if they are standing in it, and (b) directions tend to be based on landscape features (shops, pubs, junctions) rather than "5-th and harrison" or "monroe and 23". Unfortunately, people's memories are unreliable. When they give "take the third left then the second right" they forget about that minor left turn or the other fork in the road, so the directions are worthless.

As a consequence, you cannot trust anyone you ask to know where you want to go, or, if they do, to give you directions you can use.

-steve

Re:London cabbies...

[soliptic]

minicabs and their drivers are illegal by the very definition.

As nogginthenog has pointed out, not so. They are just licensed under a different set of rules. Essentially the biggest difference being that you phone and order them, you can't wave them down in the street. (Although in practice many minicab drivers will let themselves be waved over in this way, so long as nobody is looking - it's a fare, and furthermore, a fare that HQ doesn't know about, so they don't have to split it, it can go straight in their pocket.)

I guess your confusion might lay in the fact that there is currently quite a big campaign against illegal / unlicensed minicabs, which (sadly) have provided many cases of rape/assault/robbery. The problem is that since, unlike black cabs, they are just standard cars, it's pretty much impossible to tell at a glance which are licensed and which aren't.

(Bizarrely enough, I used to rent digs at a minicab office, and would occasionally answer man the phone (take bookings, ring the drivers to allocate the jobs) when my landlord / company owner had to nip out shopping or whatever, which is why I know this stuff)

Re:London cabbies...

[blackest_k]

There are essentially 2 legal forms of Taxi's plus there a number of unlicienced people pretending to be a taxi.
Black Cabs are taxi's in the traditional sense, you can flag them down they charge per mile and on time, sat in a black cab in a traffic jam costs you. The other drawback is you have to be somewhere a Black Cab happens to be passing.

Mini Cabs or private hire, have a range of vehicles, display a plate to the front and rear, and the driver will have at least one badge. Essential is the private hire badge, and optionally an escort badge.
both these badges require a full and complete criminal background check. Records are checked across the whole of the EEC before either badge is issued. The Escort Badge is harder to get than the private hire badge since it means you are licienced to escort vunerable children and Adults, most Local Authoritys, Education Authoritys and Social Services have contracts with private hire companies.

most private hire firms will work on a zoning system where the centre of the zone is base (where the office is)

Thus the charges are based on how far you are from base ie if you were going from the north to the south of the city with base in the middle you would be charged for the rate to the north zone + the rate to the south zone
+ or - something depending on when you were traveling

its important to understand that its not the distance traveled by you that matters but how far the private hire driver has to come from base to reach you and then where you go. so if your 10 miles from base to be picked up then that is the initial basis of the charge if you travel into the city ie towards base that will remain the charge if you go past into the next zone then that would be added on.
if you headed further out it would be charged for the more distant zone.

So don't expect to pay minimum fare if the minicab has already had to travel to reach you.
or more importantly book with a minicab company based as near to you as possible. Generally speaking if you ask the office for a price it maybe cheaper.

If your going to share a minicab with friends its best to ensure you all get picked up or dropped off at the same point additional stops cost money particularly when it means a large diversion. Not having money and needing to find a Cash Machine costs you money too. Keeping a driver hanging about will cost you. Being obnoxious is likely to ensure a higher fare and extreme cases the driver pulling over to the side of the road and ejecting you from the cab.

Becoming a regular, tends to benifit you in many ways, your cab turns up on time your going to be charged a better rate. Drivers spend less time having to find out where you live so can get to you quicker. One other thing that can help you is to ensure your house number is clearly visable from the road. Smaller firms tend to better than larger firms since they have less drivers a larger percentage know where you live.

Finally one more point a private hire driver isn't allowed to pick up from the side of the road. you must telephone and book (you may get the same cab if he has just cleared but not if the company is booked up) you tend to get longer waits if your completely drunk (especially if your not a regular).

A taxi or a Private hire both vehicles are plated by the local authority have tests carried out on them at least twice a year a cab older than 3 years will have another test in addition annually. The Insurance on both taxi's and Private hire is around 10x normal car insurance for the same vehicle - importantly this is invalidated with a private hire if it is not prebooked.
a genuine minicab will have the minicab firm name on the sides a local authority plate front and rear and the driver will have his badge on display (with his photograph).

These other MiniCabs you refer too are uninsured and unlicienced and can be driven by anyone, as a drunk woman falling into one of these cars you are taking a stupid risk.

with a proper private hire car, your booki

Re:London cabbies...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd heard a lot about the deep knowledge of the London Cabbies. "Just get into a black cab. The driver will be able to take you anywhere."

Yeah, right. Too bad none of the drivers knew how to get to Richmond. Quizical look. Confer with the aay to zed. "Do you know how to get there?"

"Umm... no. I'm from Chicago."

Now I know that it's not fair to expect them to know how to get out the far reaches, but hey, you tell me "anywhere" I expect Richmond.

Chicago cabbies may be from Pakistan and Somalia, but they're damn polite and their knowledge of the City seems at least as good as what I experienced in London.

Re:London cabbies...

[Anonymous Coward]

Please see http://www.tfl.gov.uk/pco/ph_licensing.asp

booked minicabs are legal as long as they are properly licensed.

Re:London cabbies...

[Mark of THE CITY]

5-th and harrison

Let me guess... San Francisco, south of Market?

cabbies

[Anonymous Coward]

"London cabbies, unlike their American counterparts, have to learn the layout of streets and the locations of thousands of places of interest in order to get a licence."

I fell pretty lucky when I can find a cabbie in the US that speaks the language so I can tell them directions to where I want to go.

Re:cabbies

[LiquidCoooled]

Aren't American roads in the large cities laid out in grids anyway?

Couldn't a total newbie to the city basically get you anywhere by just being logical?

Re:cabbies

[DoorFrame]

Depends on what city you're in. If you're in New York or Washington DC, maybe. If you're in Boston, probably not.

Re:cabbies

[Saikik]

Yeah but in DC you need to know what quadrant of the City you're in. I swear it's easier to get lost there than NYC, and DC is only 1/8th the size.

Re:cabbies

[Anonymous Coward]

Aren't American roads in the large cities laid out in grids anyway?

Sort of. Relying on this pattern for long journeys isn't practical; 15 miles of lights every 1/4 mile is tedious. Freeways cut across these grids at essentially arbitrary angles. The thing you need to know to navigate a large US city is where the Freeways will get you. When going from a to b, you typically determine which two or more Freeways you'll use, only tolerating the 'surface' roads at the start and end.

While freeways are well signed and simple to drive, if you're not familiar with the area's local names for stuff it is easy to get confused. The freeways are also rather disconnected from the surroundings; there are fewer landmarks to rely on. You can pass though significant urban area without seeing it due to embankments. If you have a navigation computer it's cake.

Anyhow, your point is taken, US cities are generally easier to navigate than typical European cities. Two reasons; having cars in mind while building (except for small areas of the East coast,) and not having to conform to the geography; we just move it.

Re:cabbies

[Charcharodon]

Yes it's alot easier to find particular places in American cities that are laid out in grids. I don't think I've seen a single straight road since I moved to England this past summer. :D You get used to it after a while.

Re:cabbies

[2short]

From my experience:

New York (Manhattan in particular) has a very regular grid system, and a complete novice can pretty much find their way around.

DC is deceptive. There's a regular grid of streets with a predictable naming system. These streets are useless to you. To get anywhere, you must use the overlayed jumble of diagonal-running avenues named (in random fasion) after states. But with directions or a map, it's doable.

Boston: forget it. He street plan is based on routes taken by cows over a radically different landscape (no, literally). It's like London, but the cabbies don't know either. The only way to find a place is to go there and ask directions from someone who is at your destination.

Re:cabbies

[Anonymous Coward]

On average it takes 34 months to to do the "Knowledge" (i.e. become a Taxi driver) in London, each applicant is required to learn 320 runs, acquiring a detailed knowledge of London within a six mile radius of Charing Cross and more general knowledge of the suburbs. When learning a run the potential Taxi driver has not only to learn the roads on the run but also all points of interest (stations, bars, hotels, museums etc) on the run AND within 50 yards of the run. Doing the "Knowledge" is tough with a very high drop out rate but with potential earnings of over £70k a year there is no shortage of applicants.

london streets

[endx7]

London cabbies, unlike their American counterparts, have to learn the layout of streets and the locations of thousands of places of interest in order to get a licence.

London is also harder to get around, due to the way street names in London work.

Re:london streets

[Anonymous Coward]

This requirement seems discriminatory. Driving cabs is typical entry level work for immigrants in the US. Obviously requiring familiarity with the area is going to discourage new arrivals in favor of the natives.

Re:london streets

[Anonymous Coward]

It's discriminatory to require that people whose job it is to transport people from place to place in an efficient fashion actually know the places they're transporting to and from and their relationship to one another?

That's mind-bogglingly stupid, and that's even taking into account the forum in which you said it.

Re:london streets

[gilgongo]

One side effect of London cabbies having to do "The Knowledge" to get a license is that it creates a market for cheap, illegal cab drivers to fill the supply gap brough about by having such an exclusive system. With hoards of unlicensed cabbies around, women get raped, uninsured road accidents happen, tourists get ripped off and legitimate cab fares are sky high.

I am a Londoner, and I think the sooner the GPS makes The Knowledge a prerequisite of licenced cab driving irrelevant, the better. The times I've been to NYC and got a cab it's been paradise in comparison.

Re:london streets

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

Maybe navigation in New York is easy. In San Francisco you have to act as navigator yourself for taxi drivers, but for some reason they don't pay you for your work. In London I can step in a cab unprepared and know that I can get to even obscure little streets with the minimum of hassle.

Re:london streets

[BovineSpirit]

I'm always amazed by Cabbies knowledge of London. They know where the traffic jams are at different times of day, and how to avoid them. They know about road works, about avoiding the football statiums on match days and about all the other factors that can affect journey times. Getting GPS systems to take all that into account is very difficult, impossible almost. A GPS system cannot replace a decent cabbie, and getting rid of the Knowledge requirement would punish the best drivers. If someone can't be bothered to do the Knowledge then I don't want them driving me home.

Re:london streets

[ari_j]

I read that comment as being a snide commentary on the idiotic activists in the US who fight so hard against what they mistakenly perceive as discrimination.

That said, I have no problem with recent immigrants who are able to obtain the requisite licenses to become cab drivers doing so. In the course of their jobs they learn their way around the city they moved to very well and they get to know a good cross-section of the culture they will hopefully one day assimilate into, either as a crouton in the salad bowl or a hunk of cheese in the melting pot.

Re:london streets

[jb.hl.com]

With hoards of unlicensed cabbies around, women get raped

Which is precisely the point a (fairly disturbing) Transport for London cinema ad made a few months back. Bit OTT, sure, but I guess in one way or another entirely necessary.

Re:london streets

[Mr2001]

They know where the traffic jams are at different times of day, and how to avoid them. They know about road works, about avoiding the football statiums on match days and about all the other factors that can affect journey times. Getting GPS systems to take all that into account is very difficult, impossible almost. Nonsense. Traffic patterns, sports events, and road work can all be factored in simply by linking the GPS unit up to a server. Surely the traffic patterns are known, and the sports events and road work are scheduled? Once you have that data, it's easy to make a GPS navigator route around the problem areas.

A GPS system cannot replace a decent cabbie, and getting rid of the Knowledge requirement would punish the best drivers. It can, however, replace 95% of what a decent cabbie does, and for the other 5%, there's nothing to stop the best drivers from ignoring the GPS's suggestions when they know better.

If someone can't be bothered to do the Knowledge then I don't want them driving me home. How about this: everyone who insists on a Decent Cabbie can pay extra for it, and everyone else can use the cheaper GPS cabs.

Re:london streets

[Tim C]

and legitimate cab fares are sky high

The unlicensed ones aren't exactly cheap either, in my experience. Still, I live far enough out (Zone 6 on the District Line) that them not having any idea how to get back to the centre of London is revenge enough for me on those thankfully rare occasions that I have to get a cab home.

Re:london streets

[James Youngman]

Many of the smaller UK cities (Birmingham, Manchetser and Leeds, for example) have licensed hansom cabs, too. But the key thing is that they also regulate their minicabs too. It's possible to do both.

So the problem is not that London regulates its black cabs. The problem is that it doesn't regulate the minicabs.

Re:london streets

[smaddox]

Excellent point.

I would also like to point out that the human brain is no match for a modern computer in terms of data retention. GPS is by far a better method (as long as the drivers are trained to use it properly). A GPS system can store information for every restaurant, deli, hotel, etc. and update daily, without the driver having to do any extra work.

Sure, it increases the driver's dependence on the technology, but why is that such a bad thing? The less time he has to devote to memorizing things, the more he can devote to something else (learning English?).

Re:london streets

[soliptic]

So the problem is not that London regulates its black cabs. The problem is that it doesn't regulate the minicabs.

No, it does regulate the minicabs. See: here. It's just difficult/impossible to actually enforce it to the point of having zero unlicensed minicabs in a city that's upwards of 7 million people over 600 square miles...

Re:london streets

[aXis100]

I dont know if you've ever tried, but using a GPS in a city can be *very* difficult, even impossible.

Tall building can block satellites or cause reflections. You need external antennas and some seriously good recievers to get a decent signal in any built up area. Forget about tunnels and car parks though, anything would be useless in there.

I'm happy for GPS to assist, but it's by no means a replacement for having an idea about where you're going.

Re:london streets

[Mr Z]

I'm willing to bet driving a cab in London is quite a bit more challenging than driving a cab in Manhattan, at least when it comes to plotting the course. I remember hearing a joke while I was there: The only straight roads in England were built by the Romans.

--Joe

Re:london streets

[Mr Z]

You could do something more like differential GPS if you were to deploy city wide. Nothing says you have to use the satellites if your operating area is fairly local (as it would be for a black cab). More important than anything else is the mapping software, not the position determination.

--Joe

Re:london streets

[ari_j]

I won't dispute that, although New York is not the only city in the United States. Many cities here are quite a bit more poorly laid out, and even New York requires a great deal of memorization of which streets have which numbering system, as they are not the same from one block to the next. But all the same, I rest assured that London is among the very worst in the English-speaking world.

Re:london streets

[hughk]

Uninsured accidents happen all the time in the UK, but that is because car ownership isn't tied closely to insurance (Elsewhere in Europe, expiry of insurance causes your road tax to be suspended). The problem isn't becuase of illegal use for hire.

In St Petersburg (Russia), you can hail any car, state your destination and haggle a price. Perhaps this is not adviseable for a woman travelling at night and alone but otherwise it works and apart from New Year's eve, the unofficial taxi system works very well. However, you had better know where you are going if it isn't a well known destination

In London, you have a good choice. You have black cabs where the license holder is allowed to pick up off the street. They will take you anywhere in Greater London at a fixed price (although on longer routes, you can negotiate). Note that the number of black cab licensees is controlled centrally and is not restricted by the number of applicants. After that, you get mini-cabs which must be prebooked. The drivers are also licensed and then lastly comes the so-called gypsy cab drivers. Personally, I don't feel that much safer in a mini-cab than a gypsy cab. Better insured, certainly but that is all.

Lastly, only the very top-end GPS systems work well in London. The streets are too narrow and the GPS signal drops out too often.

Re:london streets

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever tried to take a minicab with GPS across London? You spend most of your time in a traffic jams on major routes looking wistfully down empty side streets that any black cabbie would know like the back of their hands. It's useless. And trying to persuade the driver to ignore the GPS and take a route that you know is better is like squeezing blood from a stone.

Re:london streets

[Anonymous Coward]

Now I'm offended, yes there are a small number of unlicensed cabbies around, yes women have been raped by these unlicensed drivers but it is a small number not "hoards", what I suspect is that you have mistaken the "hoards" of Licensed Private Hire Vehicles (PHV's) for unlicensed cabbies, PHV;s outnumber Taxi's in London by a ratio of 2:1. These PHV's and those who drive them are licensed by the Public Carriage Office, the same body that licenses Taxi's and Taxi drivers. The three big differences betwen PHV's and Taxi's are (1) PHV's use normal cars, (2) PHV's must be booked - they cannot be flagged down and (3) PHV's set their own rates (always ask for a quote when booking). Both Taxi drivers and PHV drivers undergo an "enhanced criminal background check" in which not only is a check made for pervious convictions but also a check of any intelligence the Police may hold (i.e if the police think you may of committed a crime but cannot prove it you do not get a license unless you can prove otherwise).

More in information can be found on the Public Carriage Office web-site http://www.tfl.gov.uk/pco/

As a licensed PHV driver I really do not appreciate it when misinformation about cabs in London is posted.

Re:london streets

[gilgongo]

"I dont know if you've ever tried, but using a GPS in a city can be *very* difficult, even impossible."

I've not encountered that problem in London, and judging by the number of satnav screen I see glowing away in cabs and delivery vans, neither does anyone else.

Is this an American problem?

Old news for nerds?

[the_humeister]

Studies were published in the year 2000. Why is this now getting attention? Actually, come to think of it, I think it got attention back then too.

Re:Old news for nerds?

[drmarcj]

Yeah, funny how the results of this study has gotten recycled several times over the last five years. In the end, the fact that they studied taxi drivers in London sells a lot better than some of the excellent hard science this group's been doing more recently. But I guess you gotta pay the bills...

Re:Old news for nerds?

[BitHive]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who remembers this. Anyone that likes these kinds of stories should look into Neuroplasticity research. The brain's capacity for reorganization is enormous.

Re:Old news for nerds?

[Shiny One]

"Old news for nerds"

Welcome to /.

Re:Old news for nerds?

[ZERO1ZERO]

Yep, I remember this was on TV at least 5 years ago - good to know its the same study. (or not?)

Re:Old news for nerds?

[Tablizer]

Studies were published in the year 2000. Why is this now getting attention? Actually, come to think of it, I think it got attention back then too.

Perhaps because those who most welcome the news are the most likely to have forgotten?

Re:Old news for nerds?

[blakestah]

Yeah, I was suspicious of it then, too.

The taxi drivers have a 20% reduction in anterior hippocampus. And
a 7-8% increase in posterior hippocampus.

Therefore the brain grows from experience!
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/8/4398/F2

Then they went on to show a correlation with time as a taxi driver,
but it was only significant if they removed one outlier, a process
that COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN important to their statistical
finding.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/8/4398

That part of the brain has neurons that are selectively active
for the spatial position of the body in rats and Rhesus monkeys. So
it would not be surprising to find it responded to taxi driving
experience. But the surprising thing is the much larger reduction in
anterior hippocampal volume is being ignored...

I am totally in favor of our new GPS automatic map making
overlords!

Re:Old news for nerds?

[lovesaveslives]

Exactly. Very old news. Its not the whole brain, but the navigation part. Doom players can rejoice in the fact they too grow bigger brains when navigating though the gamespace, also ref: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/03091 1072236.htm

Isn't this really old?

[ashley_moran]

What's changed since this?: Taxi drivers' brains 'grow' on the job

Re:Isn't this really old?

[DrMindWarp]

It's taxi drivers with the brains, not slashdot 'editors'. They are happy to recycle old news to garner advertising. We'll be hearing about man's first steps on the moon any day now.

Unlike American cab drivers ....

[joe_n_bloe]

American cabbies are usually fine, but then again ....

I once had this cab driver who picked me up from Fairbanks International and didn't know the way to Ester.* He was actually angry at me for "wasting his time" and wanted me to call 911 for directions and eventually dropped me back off the airport and wanted $25 for his trouble. (!)

*Ester is a little village a few miles from Fairbanks on a major road that anyone of speaking age who's lived in town for more than a month can give you directions to. I know where it is now. :-)

Re:Unlike American cab drivers ....

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't mention if you paid or not. I hope you didn't. You didn't owe anything. In fact, he owed YOU $25 for wasting your time.

My brane is huge

[Sciros]

Well that's good news because now I can say that playing MTG and Guild Wars and reading comic books has been simply to increase my brain size. Nothing to do with being a huge nerd. Oh, wait.

Re:My brane is huge

[Anonymous Coward]

So huge that you can't even spell "brain."

Re:My brane is huge

[rochi]

nah, he just owns a large flat space posited by string theory.

Re:My brane is huge

[Sciros]

Thanks for pointing out my subtle humor to the feeble-minded. I appreciate it :-)

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[HappySqurriel]

I'm going to start off by saying that I'm not an American ...

Honestly, George Bush has not been a very good president but I don't think the problem with his performance has anything to do with lack of intelligence. The War in Iraq is often mentioned as a "disaster" but has been one of the most successful and casualty free wars in history; the main problem with it is that it was sold to Americans on false information which brings up questions on the motivation for war (many people belive in a deeper conspiracy but if there was a successful conspiracy it would imply that GW was smarter than people suspected). The ecconomy is running into difficulty but a large portion of that is caused by the dramatic reduction in interest rates post 9-11 which drove up consumer spending and created massive inflationary pressures; ultimately, the recession that would have occured after 9-11 was delayed and it is difficult to know if it is for the better or for the worse.

Ultimately, GW was probably not a good president, but I don't think it is fair to say that he was all that dumb.

In other news...

[HockeyPuck]

People have no idea what the phone numbers are for their friends/family as they've all been programmed into speed dial.

Re:In other news...

[ScrewMaster]

In the year 2525, if Man is still alive,

Arms and legs have nothin' to do,

some machine be doin' it for you.

Apparently this applies to our brains as well as our limbs.

Re:In other news...

[rubycodez]

pfft, I can't even remember the speed dial assignments, I just scroll down my contacts list and hit call. funny we still call it "dialing a number", phones haven't had a dial for more than two decades.

Re:In other news...

[snickkers]

People also don't know the best technique for getting on a penny farthing and riding off. What's you're point?

Does this mean...

[Kiba Ruby]

Does this mean that programmers are more logical than people?

Re:Does this mean...

[Anonymous Coward]

It mean all specialists tend to develop grey matter more than those who do not focus on a specific task.

And programmers are people too. If you just forgot "other people" then you must realize programmers focus FAR less on a specific task than many other specialists.

Re:Does this mean...

[OneoFamillion]

I'm confused. In you question, do you compare programmers to actual people who have a life, or the logicality of programmers to their people-ness?

Oh wait, now I'm confused by my question.

Re:Does this mean...

[Barkmullz]

Does this mean that programmers are more logical than people?

So what you are saying is that programmers are not people...interesting concept.

Re:Does this mean...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if you're not very good at programming, then probably not.
The language being used is important too, like assembly vs basic.

From my experience, I believe programming is mainly problem solving and applying algorithms. Logic isn't really required at all, since even terrible code can work, and the terrible solution may even be the "right" one. There's a learning curve when you start programming, but then you just apply the same algorithms over and over, most of the time.

If you program alot, then doing things like programming should be easier and any areas of the brain associated with it would probably improve. As is true for any kind of activity.

Anyway, the brain obviously responds to stimulus and use. How fast it can change for better or worse (aside from trauma), would be some interesting stuff.
I remember hearing about kids that grew up in the wild never being able to speak or write full sentences, because the speech part of their mind never developed.
If specializing improves the related part of the mind, what happens to the mind of someone mentally ill? Would someone obsessive compulsive develop more mass in motor control or memory?

Oooo, let's dissect the paranoid ones! To measure their brains. I'm sure that'll go over well with them. (actually, I bet they've already done this)

Re:Does this mean...

[roman_mir]

Yes it does.

This reminds me of a story I once heard that is somewhat applicable to this article, there was once this guy and he stole shoes...

GPS is dangerous

[Anonymous Coward]

Since I've got one, I've totally lost my ability to tell my altitude, longitude, and latitude. I get real dizzy all the time.

Juggers too - BBC again

[26199]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3417045.stm

It's interesting, but it ain't news :)

Cause or Effect?

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Do taxi drivers' brains expand to provide more memory, or do people with poor memory just forget to become taxi drivers?

A huge problem with any of these correlation studies is determining, accurately, which way the cause->effect relationship runs.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[peragrin]

while i agree with you it's more like drivers who get lost easily don't tend to last long as a cab driver.

Also while there are some cab drivers who should be doing something else, There are those whose only real talent is directions and locations.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[slamb]

EmbeddedJanitor asked

Do taxi drivers' brains expand to provide more memory, or do people with poor memory just forget to become taxi drivers? A huge problem with any of these correlation studies is determining, accurately, which way the cause->effect relationship runs.

A good question, but RTFA:

Dr Maguire said: "We are now looking at the brains of taxi-drivers before they start training, and at those of retired cabbies to see whether that area of the brain gets smaller when it is not used."

Hopefully they'll actually follow the pre-training drivers through all the way through training so they don't compare future wash-outs with present successful cabbies rather than future successful cabbies with present successful cabbies. If so, it should go a long way toward answering your question.

The ultimate would be to compare the same population of cabbies vs. bus drivers (control group) through their entire careers. Obviously that'd be a long-term study, and it will become impossible when "the Knowledge" is obsoleted by GPS mapping software. (I say "when" rather than "if". It will happen sooner or later.)

Re:Cause or Effect?

[timeOday]

The ultimate would be to compare the same population of cabbies vs. bus drivers (control group) through their entire careers. Obviously that'd be a long-term study, and it will become impossible when "the Knowledge" is obsoleted by GPS mapping software.

I wouldn't assume GPS will have any effect. Who knows, maybe people will learn the city faster and more thoroughly by repeatedly seeing themselves move through a computer-generated map.

There seems to be an assumption that people won't learn what they don't "have to" learn (I've heard this argument against PDAs too). But maybe people just learn what they're repeatedly exposed to, or things with emotional connections. Technology may or may not interfere with that. It's not a question I would guess at the answer without some evidence either way.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[timeOday]

I'm surprised they even bothered if it's not a longitudinal study. "This just in, basketball makes you taller. Those who give up on basketball don't develop legs as long as those who stay with it throughout professional basketball careers."

Re:Cause or Effect?

[slamb]

There seems to be an assumption that people won't learn what they don't "have to" learn (I've heard this argument against PDAs too). But maybe people just learn what they're repeatedly exposed to, or things with emotional connections. Technology may or may not interfere with that. It's not a question I would guess at the answer without some evidence either way.

I generalized from similar observations:

• Now that I have a cell phone with a good phonebook, I no longer memorize phone numbers. (I remember phone numbers I called 10 years ago, but I don't remember phone numbers I now call all the time. There's no need.)
• Now that cashiers have cash registers, they no longer do basic arithmetic. (Sadly, most don't even remember how to do the arithmetic. They were all instructed in elementary school, but it didn't stick...)
• Now that cashiers have bar code scanners, they no longer remember prices. (But they do remember the typed codes for fruit and vegetables.)
• Now that I have Eclipse toolhints, I no longer remember Java library functions' argument orders.
• ...

In general, it seems that when it's more convenient and about as effective to use a machine as to do something by hand, people will no longer take the effort to do it themselves. And memorization (of prices, phone numbers, street names, anything) is way harder for people than for computers.

If the software works well enough that cabbies can reliably enter an address and find the street, why should cabbies be made to remember all the street names? And if it works so well that it can reliably pick an optimal route (including traffic, construction, etc.) why should they even remember how to get anywhere?

In fact, I predict they'll start depending on it before it's reliable. The test will go away, and for better or for worse, there will be a lot more cabbies out there, and they won't be able to get around very well when the computer acts up, just like a lot of businesses now can barely sell anything when their cash registers act up. It will be a pain to get to certain streets because the database is wrong, and cabbies will unknowingly avoid certain more optimal turns/intersections because the software can't navigate through them.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[StikyPad]

I think it's safe to assume that most taxi drivers do their jobs because it beats being a janitor. It's possible that some drivers are fulfilling a lifelong career goal, but I'm pretty sure most of them are just people who noticed Yellow Cab was hiring that day.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[dirgotronix]

I'm a cab driver in Denver (who was a graphic designer/web developer for ten years prior.)

I've got TomTom Navigator installed on my ppc phone, and used it all the time when I first started driving so I could memorize the order of the streets, and see dead ends and turns before I got to them.

Nowadays, I only ever even turn it on if a: I'm driving /way/ out of my area of knowledge (25+ miles), or b: if i'm driving someone out of my area of knowledge, and they're so drunk all I get from them is an address before they pass out in the back of the cab.

In those two instances, having a GPS is a wonderful thing.

Usually, if I don't know how to get somewhere, I just ask my passenger for the best route. People know where they're going.

I didn't rely on the gps initially, I was using it as extended vision, I guess. Now that I've learned all that stuff, it only ever gets used if I honestly know nothing around me.

Plus, there are certain cities and jurisdictions in the denver metro area that decided they don't want to use the hundred block system, and start all over from zero, which /really/ throws me off. I can get anywhere with hundred blocks, or at the very least, I'm never /lost/ with hundred blocks. When you reset them in the middle of nowhere...

Re:Cause or Effect?

[timeOday]

Now that I have a cell phone with a good phonebook, I no longer memorize phone numbers. (I remember phone numbers I called 10 years ago, but I don't remember phone numbers I now call all the time. There's no need.)

Here's the difference, though: even though the GPS tells you what to do, you still have to do it yourself. You still have to make each turn and experience the trip, same as before. It's not like mental vs. calculator arithmetic where you can bypass the whole experience. I'm not saying what you're predicting won't happen, but I think it warrants investigation.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[dirgotronix]

I'm a cabbie.

I was in a motorcycle accident in 2001 which caused serious short-term memory issues in my brain. I started driving a cab in february of 2006, and I have noticed an increase in my short term memory.

When I first started, I would have to ask my passengers to give me directions one turn at a time (and in my mind, I was repeating that single direction) in order to get to the destination. Now, I can generally get anywhere on address alone, or, at a minimum, remember the address all the way through the trip, despite having various conversations, remembering turn by turn directions, avoiding accidents, etc.

I'd say I agree with the studies, from personal experience.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[thc69]

Who knows, maybe people will learn the city faster and more thoroughly by repeatedly seeing themselves move through a computer-generated map.

Worked for me. Before I got a GPS, I was always lost. Now that I have a GPS, I find that I am able to learn whole areas pretty easily.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[aussie_a]

Sadly, most don't even remember how to do the arithmetic. They were all instructed in elementary school, but it didn't stick... I'm sure people said the same thing about morse code.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[slamb]

Worked for me. Before I got a GPS, I was always lost. Now that I have a GPS, I find that I am able to learn whole areas pretty easily.

I hear you (and will probably buy and use a GPS similarly myself), but your idea of "knowing a whole area" would probably be different if you went through "The Knowledge" - the intensive three-year (on average) study of every little alleyway, landmark, and traffic-related event in the core of London.

It will (eventually) be used as a replacement for study. When they start just dumping GPS-enabled cabbies out there instead of putting them through that first, I very much doubt that they'll ever learn the area as well. I don't think its value as a learning aid over the years will ever add up to the value of the intense study it replaces. And maybe that's not so terrible, if it does the job well enough without requiring the memorized knowledge.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's safe to assume that most taxi drivers do their jobs because it beats being a janitor. It's possible that some drivers are fulfilling a lifelong career goal, but I'm pretty sure most of them are just people who noticed Yellow Cab was hiring that day.

I think it's safe to assume you didn't read the article. These aren't Yellow Cab drivers. They're London Black Cab drivers who studied the area for an average of three years before earning their license.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's safe to assume that you're an American, and like most of them, have forgotten how to use your brain. Or you can't read.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[Lemmy Caution]

You know, I think you can overextend the use of neo-Darwinian evolutionary model. Considering both the plasticity of the mind and the real economic and personal pressures on people who become cab drivers, it is probably indeed more accurate to say that cab drivers become good at not-getting-lost.

The whole point of the article is the effect of work and other life experiences in forming brain architecture.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[General Wesc]

You're missing the best example. Remember Phaedrus? Socrates quoting the god Theus on the invention of writing: '...for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves.' Writing is evil! ;-)

Re:Cause or Effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

The ultimate would be to compare the same population of cabbies vs. bus drivers (control group) through their entire careers.

If you'd ever been on a London bus you'd realise that approaching a bus driver who's spent more than a week on the job, let alone an entire career, is more dangerous than collecting plaque samples from a great white shark. There's no doubt that something changes in the brains of bus drivers, but so far we haven't found any researchers brave enough to investigate exactly what it is.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[Ash Vince]

Alot of people seem to be missing the poing of asking London taxi drivers. The knowledge (the cabbie exam) invloves knowing every street, postcode and landmark building in an area 50 miles across. If you have to ask for directions you fail the exam and they make you do the exam on a distinctive moped and clipboard so you can't really use a GPS quite so easily. If you were caught cheating by another cabbie you may well get reported.

It is very, very hard to memorise as London is a city which is not based on any sort of grid, it has just randomly sprawled since before the US had a single city to its name.

I have yet to find a city with cabbies who were anywhere near as good.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[a.d.trick]

This is even more true when it comes to remembering our history. Ages ago, most of the records were passed no by word of mouth because there was no equipment to right things down on. However, their ability to remember lengthy oral accounts (at least the spirit of it, sometimes the details are muddled) is unmatched by anything we have today. That's why we have a lot of fairly reliable knowledge about the Palistinan guy named Jesus even though writings about him didn't come out for 30-60 years after his death. With other acient figures, like Muhammad and the Greek philosophers, the dates are not so nice (like 200-500 years between death and writings comming about) but the information we have is still fairly good.

As you noted, technology can easily fail us, and when it comes to historical records, when it's gone, it's gone. I'm afraid we might end up through ourselves into a dark age soon enough if were don't careful. Even today there is a lot of uncertainty about events that happened just a few decades ago.

Re:Cause or Effect?

[tehcyder]

When I first started, I would have to ask my passengers to give me directions one turn at a time

This is normal for minicab drivers (i.e. not black cab drivers who have passed the Knowledge).

Butlerian Jihad?

[xenocide2]

"She warns against the use of GPS and says it will possibly affect the brain changes seen in this study."

So we shouldn't use technology because it interferes with their study? Or maybe they just think that somehow humanity will become smarter and more efficient as adults make new brain cells specific to a task? Darwinian natural selection issues aside, it sounds like something straight out of Frank Herbert's series.

Re:Butlerian Jihad?

[Anonymous Coward]

Darwinian natural selection issues aside, it sounds like something straight out of Frank Herbert's series.

Unless we all start taking some natural herbal supplement or cover ourselves in hydrophobic sandfish, I think it'll take quite a bit longer than that. OTHO, there ARE herbal supplements that people take, and is sworn by for enhancing creativity and...umm.... It does have a deleterious effect on one's memeory, however.

Does this apply only to "brain" mass ?

[Joebert]

"GPS [Global Positioning System] may have a big effect," says Dr Eleanor Maguire, who led the research at University College London. "We very much hope they don't start using it. We believe this area of the brain increased in grey matter volume because of the huge amount or data they have to memorise.If they all start using GPS, that knowledge base will be less and possibly effect the brain changes we are seeing."

So, Construction Workers shouldn't use heavy equipment because it could effect their muscle tone ?

Re:Does this apply only to "brain" mass ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not if they are the subjects of a study of muscle tone in construction workers. That's what the researcher meant.

Re:Does this apply only to "brain" mass ?

[Jearil]

I'm going to guess that she means that if cabbies start using GPS, it will ruin their test data, and end the experiment. At least that's how I'd look at it.

Re:Does this apply only to "brain" mass ?

[Joebert]

How would it ruin their experiment though, if cabbies started using GPS, and there was a noticable difference, wouldn't that support the researchers ideas ?

Wrong brain cell, doofus!

[dangitman]

Damn. I wish taxi drivers would grow more brain cells in the region of driving ability, or in the "direction finding and map reading" area.

Re:Wrong brain cell, doofus!

[FyRE666]

In defence of London cabbies, it's hard to fault them on their ability to drive or navigate between two points. I've no idea how they manage to stand 8 hours a day of London traffic without becoming raging psychopaths though...

Re:Wrong brain cell, doofus!

[dangitman]

you simply MUST read a book by Will Self called "The Book of Dave" - it's about a London cabbie who goes psychotic on "The Knowledge" of London streets. It's even part science fiction/fantasy. If you haven't read Will Self, it's time to start. He's the current master of British literature.

Re:Wrong brain cell, doofus!

[Anonymous Coward]

in europe taxi drivers use no GPS, because GPS is always showing fastest or shortest way

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[bhirsch]

Still better than Carter.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Horseshit. If only Bush were as ineffective as Carter was, the world would be a much better place today.

Speaking of cabbies

[kurt555gs]

Ossama Bin Laden dies, and is standing at the Pearly Gates. St Peter comes up on the other side, looks at Ossama and says "No , don't tell me, let me guess".

St Peter studies him a while, then turns his head and yells out:

" Hey Jesus, did you order a cab? "

Cheers

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[FishWithAHammer]

Exactly. It goes like this:

Carter Bush baked potato

Like every other "pump".

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you train it and work with it it will grow and remain strong."

And for everyone else, there's Viagra.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[bhirsch]

If it weren't for Carter's ineffectiveness, Bush would have never been elected.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Brandybuck]

I'm starting to get tired of the "Bush==Dumb" meme. You repeat a joke long enough, and the idiots on Comedy Central start to believe it's true. The lack of a 4.0 GPA and Ivy League diction is irrelevant to intelligence. The truth is that NO ONE who manages to become president is dumb.

And Then 500 Years Later . . .

[unamiccia]

The Chief Examiner turned his attention on Carl and Antonë. He pushed his mirror away from his face and confronted them with his sweaty and distorted sneer. Judgement was nigh:

-- Az 2 U 2 -- the harsh Mokni consonents cut like knives through the thickening atmosphere of the forecourt -- U lì, U cheet, U R trayters, U R Fliars. U raze up ve toyist an drag dahn ve dävyn! He drew a scrap of black cloth from a fold of his robe and slapped it on to his bald wig. He parted his robe so that the sign of the Wheel was clearly visible on the sweaty breast of his T-shirt. he drew himself up to his full height and pronounced terrifying anathema on them:

-- U wil B takun bakk 2 ve Towa an brökun on ve Weel. Yaw tungs wil B cú aht. U wil B brandid an ung aht 2 dye inna box! Tayk em dahn! Ware2, guv? he bellowed.

-- 2 Nú Lundun, the forecourt responded in a subdued fashion.

-- Will Self, The Book of Dave (New York: Bloomsbury, 2006), 430.

mandatory response RE:Old news for nerds?

[Plutonite]

Studies were published in the year 2000 [pnas.org]. Why is this now getting attention?

You must be new here.

Good job!

[jgartin]

London cabbies, unlike their American counterparts, have to learn the layout of streets and the locations of thousands of places of interest in order to get a licence.

Way to compare a single city's regulations to an entire country's very diverse regulations.

Re:Good job!

[CmdrGravy]

In fact Black Cab drivers anywhere in the UK have to take the same test tailored to their own areas. Since London is the largest urban area in the UK the London test includes more locations and streets and is the most complex.

Mini cab drivers do not have to take the Knowledge but if you ask them they are mostly studying to pass it, this can take up to 2 or 3 years of study even whilst operating as a mini cab in that time.

Re:Good job!

[Anonymous Coward]

NYC cab drivers also have to take a test involving street names.
Not all areas of NYC are a grid, for instance, lower manhattan and the outer boroughs.
Also the number systems starting points, vary from street to street in manhattan, 800 lexington ave, is not even close to 800 broadway.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gerald Ford.

It's true

[Tablizer]

I've found my Bullshit Lobe doubling in size since I entered the corporate world.

Re:It's true

[TheLink]

Your skull stayed the about same size right? So what shrunk? ;)

BTW the cabbies had some other part of their brain shrink, go look it up.

Re:+1 Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot that 1 American = 1,000 non-American lives.

Re:What is it with...

[Anonymous Coward]

I (British (English)) now live in the USA.
I have not taken many cab rides over here (too damn expensive).
Without exception, during the few rides tha tI have taken, I have had to tell the driver how to get there. Fortunately I was warned about this phenomenon.
I haven't taken a cab in Cairo.
I have taken a cab in Sweden. It was well equiped with credit card readers, GPS and internet connection! (Probably included a few things I didn't recognize)
I have taken cab rides in other countries too. Nothing stands out in my memory about them though (apart from getting ripped off in Italy)

His dick probably feels bigger because it is larger.
He probably made the comment about the USA (I am guessing rather than America) because that is where most /. readers originate from.
Maybe you are feeling sensitive? Please tell us more

Re:+1 Funny

[HappySqurriel]

"After 2 hours of bombardment, Tokyo was engulfed in a firestorm. The fires were so hot they would ignite the clothing on individuals as they were fleeing. Many women were wearing what were called 'air-raid turbans' around their heads and the heat would ignite those turbans like a wick on a candle. The aftermath of the incendiary bombings lead to an estimated 100,000 Japanese dead. This may have been the most devastating single raid ever carried out by aircraft in any war including the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the firebombing of Dresden"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_in_W orld_War_II

Remember, the 100,000 number was the number of people who died directly from the bombing and doesn't include the thousands that would have died from famine/disease in the weeks and months following the bombing (which is what the estimate of 100,000 of Iraq's citizens is based off of).

Even today the number of those killed, military and civilian, in the period covered (1959-1975) is open to debate and uncertainty. To illustrate the problem, below are three reference works by three or more authors listing casualty figures. What is remarkable about them is that the only ones that seem to match are the ones that must be, at best, approximations. None of the figures include the members of South Vietnamese forces killed in the final campaign. Nor do they include the Royal Lao Armed Forces, thousands of Laotian and Thai irregulars, or Laotian civilians who all perished in that peculiar conflict. They do not include the tens of thousands of Cambodians killed during the civil war or the estimated one and one-half to two million that perished in the genocide that followed Khmer Rouge victory

1. Harry G. Summers, The Vietnam War Almanac. Novato CA: Presidio Press, 1985.

U.S. killed in action, died of wounds, died of other causes, missing and declared dead - 57,690. South Vietnamese military killed - 243,748. Republic of Korea killed - 4,407. Australia and New Zealand (combined) - 469. Thailand - 351. The Vietnam People's Army and NLF (combined) - 666,000. North Vietnamese civilian fatalities - 65,000. South Vietnamese civilian dead - 300,000.

2. Marc Leepson, ed, Webster's New World Dictionary of the Vietnam War. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1999.

U.S. killed in action, etc. - 58,159. South Vietnamese military - 224,000. Republic of Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and Thailand - not listed. DRV military - not listed. DRV civilians - 65,000. South Vietnamese civilians - 300,000.

3. Edward Doyle, Samuel Lipsman, et al, Setting the Stage. Boston: Boston Publishing Company, 1981.

U.S. - 57,605. South Vietnamese military - 220,357. Republic of Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and Thailand - not listed. DRV and NLF deaths - 444,000. Combined DRV and RVN civilian deaths -587,000.

A fourth Source, John Rowe's Vietnam: The Australian Experience. Sydney: Time-Life Books Australia, 1987, gives a figure of 496 Australians killed in action or died of wounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_war#Casualtie s

100,000 is a lot of people, and is larger than many of the cities that people will be reading Slashdot from but when you look at casualties of wars the US has been in the number has been steadily declining since World War 2.

Karl Rove did the managing.

[Futurepower(R)]

"... NO ONE who manages to become president is dumb."

Agreed. But George W. Bush did not do the managing, Karl Rove did. GWB merely followed Karl Rove's script.

I wrote a summary of the corruption of the Rove/Cheney/Rumsfeld administration: George W. Bush comedy and tragedy.

Re:Karl Rove did the managing.

[Brandybuck]

Yawn. When you're done with the Karl Rove is Dr. Evil routine, come back and we'll talk, Until then stay at least fifty yards away from me.

Re:What is it with...

[CmdrGravy]

Oooo, touchy !

No doubt British Taxis are better than French & Egyptian taxis as well but since most people who read this are American it makes more sense to point out how much better they are than Americans rather than some other random country.

Plato/Socrates said that about writing too...

[KarmaRundi]

"Soc. At the Egyptian city of Naucratis, there was a famous old god, whose name was Theuth; the bird which is called the Ibis is sacred to him, and he was the inventor of many arts, such as arithmetic and calculation and geometry and astronomy and draughts and dice, but his great discovery was the use of letters. Now in those days the god Thamus was the king of the whole country of Egypt; and he dwelt in that great city of Upper Egypt which the Hellenes call Egyptian Thebes, and the god himself is called by them Ammon. To him came Theuth and showed his inventions, desiring that the other Egyptians might be allowed to have the benefit of them; he enumerated them, and Thamus enquired about their several uses, and praised some of them and censured others, as he approved or disapproved of them. It would take a long time to repeat all that Thamus said to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts. But when they came to letters, This, said Theuth, will make the Egyptians wiser and give them better memories; it is a specific both for the memory and for the wit. Thamus replied: O most ingenious Theuth, the parent or inventor of an art is not always the best judge of the utility or inutility of his own inventions to the users of them. And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." Translation nabbed from here

Bet he would have hated Google. All we have to remember now is how to use it and a few key words.

Now, What is the motivation?

[edbarbar]

"We very much hope they don't start using it [GPS]. We believe this area of the brain increased in grey matter volume because of the huge amount or data they have to memorise.If they all start using GPS, that knowledge base will be less and possibly effect the brain changes we are seeing."

I'm not clear if Dr. Maguire (and whoever the "we" is she refers to), don't want taxi drivers to use GPS because she wants to require the cabbies to have a huge knowledge base or because she wants to see the brain changes. She doesn't indicate any value to the cabbies over GPS.

Perhaps she (and her "we") just likes the aesthetic of large brain sections?

Re:Now, What is the motivation?

[CmdrGravy]

In the UK mini cabs mostly have GPS ( the legal ones at least ) whilst the Black Cabs don't. In my totally unscientific studies the Black Cabs are far more effective at getting you to places than the GPS equipped mini cabs.

For example the road I live on has a name which is repeated a number of times in the City I live in in different areas but with Black Cabs I only have to say "[my road name] by the park just under the bridge" to get there with no further questions asked whereas with the mini cabs it can take them a long time to put my postcode into their machines or determine where exactly the road is to plot a route to it. Normally even having done this you have to tell them the way at every junction anyway.

Re:Now, What is the motivation?

[pimpimpim]

Hah, this is interesting, I just (one hour ago) saw a german TV show where they compared 3 GPS instruments and a good ol' cab driver on a 2-mile track in the city of Munich. The worst GPS made it a 20 minute trip, the better ones a 7 minute trip, the cab driver a 4 minute trip. No magic involved, just unefficient road planning by the GPS systems.

Then again, I had a cab driver ask me once (I was walking on the sidewalk) where a certain hotel in town was. Even if I would have known, I think I wouldn't have answered. It was a well-known chain hotel and the city is pretty small. I pitied his passenger, though.

P.S.: And thank you all for the tips about USA cab drivers, I'll take a map with me if I ever plan to go to the USA and ask for a cab :)

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[istartedi]

I think the president has less to do with the economy (but not nothing). Also, I think our economic problems are only starting to emerge; but they go back further than that. Alan Greenspan is said to have had a very close relationship with Bill Clinton. Some have argued that he was reluctant to prick the dot-com bubble and create a potential recession under Clinton--he should have raised rates much earlier. The fake wealth created by dot-com I found its way into the real estate market. Interest rates that were lowered after 911 combined to fuel the real estate bubble. That bubble being toppy, the money fled to the last refuge--commodities such as gold, signaling the weakness in the dollar we're seeing.

The Iraq war is intertwined with the economy of course, because in addition to the needless killing there is needless spending. The only reason we don't see higher inflation numbers is because non-rental housing and energy are excluded from government figures. The real rate of inflation is considerably higher than the government reported rates, and this is being reflected in currency markets and the economic policies of foreign powers who know better than to believe some government report.

GWB is not so much stupid as he is foolish; not so much lacking in IQ as he lacks EQ. He was too willing to be lead by party ideologues and "yes men". He doesn't seem to have his own philosophy. He's too much of a "company man", the "company" being the right-wing "Christian" fundamentalists in his party. He probably has slightly above average IQ, but in the presidency you want someone who is both smart and wise. You don't want a slighly above average man in there. You want a superlative person, and superlative people usually have some independant thinking.

in other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Human brains have been found to shrink after days of watching Taxi reruns.

London cabbies vs American cabbies

[56ker]

London cab driver (visiting my mum's cousin):-

No map required, took us directly to the street - no problems - good tip

American cab driver (picked me up from Dallas Fort Worth airport)

Said he "used to live there", had a map - was only 6 miles from the airport but he managed to get lost, take about an hour or two to get there (had this insistence he must drop me off at the correct number) and ended up charging less than what was on his meter out of embarrassment.

So, yes I'll take a London cab driver (or walking/public transport if I'm in America) vs their American equivalent any day of the week. :)

Re:London cabbies vs American cabbies

[StikyPad]

Well you sure convinced me! I mean if a sample size of 1 per set isn't enough to draw a conclusion, then what is?!

Anyway, as long as we're on anecdotes, when I was in Japan, I asked the cab driver to take me to a well-known club, even using what Japanese I knew, plus a Japanese accent with my English (which actually works better than trying to speak Japanese in many situations). Apparently the language barrier was too steep, so I just showed him the flier with the map all written in Japanese. Instead of looking at it, he just stopped in the middle of a busy road and told us to get out. At least I think he said to get out.. I didn't really understand what he was saying, but the automatically opening doors sort of gave the impression he wanted us out. In hindsight I suppose it's possible he'd spotted some gravel or something on the side of the road and he wanted us to retrieve for him.

Anyway, we just grabbed the next taxi we saw, and the driver was much more helpful.

It's not like we were in some back woods villiage either -- we were in Yokohama, which is a fairly big tourist area.

Re:London cabbies vs American cabbies

[Charcharodon]

London cabbies have a distinct advantage over their American counterparts. They finished laying out all the roads in London shortly after the Romans left. By default he doesn't have to learn anything new :p

Of course the system of laying them out and naming them is only known to the madman that created them. Finding your way around on the English roadways is definitely a skill based on good memory and a lot of experience (getting lost a dozen times).

"Street signs telling you what road you are on, straight roads, uniquely named roads that don't change names every 1/4 mile or so, bah! Now what would be the sense in all of that? Sounds like a bunch of rubbish an American would come up with.

:D

It's all in good fun. British drivers are some of the best I've ever seen. I do have a theory though. Where it looks like all the slow drivers here in the UK all hang out in the proper lane on the motorways not blocking faster traffic, it's only because all slow drivers like to hang out in the left lane reguardless of which country they live in. It just happens to work out for the best here since in the UK the slow lane is the left lane.

Re:London cabbies vs American cabbies

[56ker]

Maybe the language barrier was too much for him or he had trouble reading the map. I don't know - have never been to Japan. Maybe your possible (mis)pronunciation meant you insulted his family or implied you wouldn't pay the fare.

Probably he just thought it wasn't worth the hastle for a foreigner. :)

You got another cab ok though which was fortunate.

Not D.C.

[Mateorabi]

D.C. is on a silly zone system rather than any rational a*time+b*distance formula. Trips accross town depend on how many zones you drive through. And guess who gets to pick the route? Yep, the cabbie. So he's bassicaly doing a min-max of the most zones he can drive through that isn't obviously going backwards while keeping the time down so he gets more fares. The end result is that trips between the same point can cost different customers WILDLY different ammounts.

And grid cities can still be confusing when you throw in one way streets, diagonal streets (all the state named avenues in DC), streets that don't exist for one or more blocks then start up again, traffic circles, traffic sqares, etc. But don't blame us, DC was laid out by a Frenchman.

Re:+1 Funny

[HappySqurriel]

I never said it was a good war or that winning it achieved any grand victory but from a Military perspective it has been a very successful and reasonably casualty free war. I would agree with someone when they say that the war was unnecessary, or that it was an illegal war (if there is such a thing) but if you say that it has been anything except for successful for the American Military (or that there are a lot of civilian casulaties in this war) you're demonstrating a lack of objectivity in the discussion.

Sounds like a good reason *for* GPS

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

Sounds to me like using a GPS means there is more space in your skull for your brain to expand to deal with interesting tasks rather than mundane crap like how to get from A to B. I think I'll get one today.

Re:Sounds like a good reason *for* GPS

[pen]

Agree. I have little problem following a map, and even when using a GPS navigator, I have a pretty good idea of where I am. The GPS simply allows me to drive to a place I've never been before without worrying about exit numbers, poor signage, using the odometer to track distance to next turn, etc. Even in the worst of weather conditions or in places with poor signage, I know what street I am approaching and how long it is until my next exit.

Sure, the GPS algorithms are pretty dumb, and I can usually come up with a better route in areas I am familiar with; But for long trips to new places, it has been indispensable. It leaves me a lot more time and mental energy to think, talk with other people in the car, listen to music, and -- last but not least -- pay attention to the road.

WTF mods? Mod Parent Up!

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously WTF?

The parent is nether factually incorrect, trolling, off-topic (being that he is responding to a troll) or particularly offensive yet you mod the post down ...

Just because you disagree with something does not mean that you have to mod it down ...

Wow ... I'm always amazed at how close minded people can be

London Cabbies...

[feepness]

London cabbies, unlike their American counterparts, have to learn the layout of streets and the locations of thousands of places of interest in order to get a licence.

Because all American cities are laid out in square grids of exact size and cabbies drive from one end to the other in a continuous loop like little yellow trains.

Yes, yes, I know London is complicated, but come on now.

Use a GPS. Save your brain for something better.

[cvd6262]

Recommending that GPS units shouldn't be used because it would cause a change in the person's brain is ridiculous unless the benefit of *not* changing the brain is good for anything other than the task the GPS does.

American Scientist had an episode where they taught a seeing girl braille, and tested her ability while doing an fMRI. The sections of her brain that fired during the test were associated with tactile processing. Then they blindfolded her for 100 hours, and retested. This time, her visual cortex was firing. The brain is dynamic and can repurpose unused neurons. This may be why people can no longer remember 7-digit telephone numbers: We all have PDA/cell phones to do it for us.

Is this bad? Not unless you value the ability to remember phone numbers.

Would it be bad if London taxi drivers no longer knew every little alleyway? Not so long as they could still accomplish their task.

BTW, I had a very different experience with a cabby in Paris. I told him where I wanted to go and he handed me a road atlas and said, "Trouvez-le."

Re:+1 Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

Again, you fail to define what "successful" means. Was the INVASION successful? Sure. Was the WAR successful? You need to state the objective. If that objective included a secure, stable Iraq, then obviously it's been a catastrophic failure.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[HappySqurriel]

GWB is not so much stupid as he is foolish; not so much lacking in IQ as he lacks EQ. He was too willing to be lead by party ideologues and "yes men". He doesn't seem to have his own philosophy. He's too much of a "company man", the "company" being the right-wing "Christian" fundamentalists in his party. He probably has slightly above average IQ, but in the presidency you want someone who is both smart and wise. You don't want a slighly above average man in there. You want a superlative person, and superlative people usually have some independant thinking.

I don't disagree with you ...

I'm (mostly) just tired of the constant partisan politics on Slashdot and become really frustrated when I see (reasonably) intelligent people attempt to discredt others through childish name calling rather than a mature debate. There are hundreds of questionable policies and decisions that the Bush Administration was responsible for where it would make sense to debate whether they were good/bad and what should have been done; instead you will hear "Bush is stupid". 10/20/30 years from now it is likely that similar circumstances will apear and no one will be better able to handle the situation.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[plopez]

GOAT

Re:+1 Funny

[cp.tar]

from a Military perspective it has been a very successful and reasonably casualty free war.

if you say that it has been anything except for successful for the American Military (or that there are a lot of civilian casulaties in this war) you're demonstrating a lack of objectivity in the discussion.

Well then, from a military perspective, the terrorists who brought down the Twins were also very successful and did a reasonably casualty-free job.

If you're saying that it has been anything except for successful for the terrorists (or that there were a lot of civilian casualties), you're demonstrating a lack of objectivity in the discussion.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm (mostly) just tired of the constant partisan politics on Slashdot

Tired? Your UID is over 1,000,000!

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[modecx]

The truth is that NO ONE who manages to become president is dumb.

Exactly. The truth is, he is actually quite an intelligent and eloquent man off camera, but for one reason or another, he doesn't let the rest of the world know. The truth is, he's manipulated the lower and middle voting classes like no other president has before him, undoubtedly because he's excellent at acting dumb. Ronald Regan was known as the actor-president, but GWB is a much better actor--yet he hasn't been in a single film. Heck, if there were an award for acting dumb, even Jim Carey and Jeff Daniels would have to work pretty hard to overcome Mr. Bush.

There have been many people who have interviewed him one-on-one, and their stories are often similar. For instance, Matt Lauer said that he was surprisingly thoughtful and intelligent before he sat down in front of the camera, and that all of this went away the moment he did so, and the interview then proceeded like a typical President Bush interview.

However, the fact that I do acknowledge that he is smarter than he lets on, and that I rebut the popular meme which says that he's a dumb-ass should not be taken to mean that I like the man. I think he's a lot more evil than people can give him credit for, and I think he's just about the worst person to have in this position of power. I don't like their family, and I especially don't like Mr. Bush. I think it's a real life case of the fox guarding the hen house.

how is this news

[delvsional]

Psychologists have known this for years. it's called spatial cognition.

Re:+1 Funny

[HappySqurriel]

Again, you fail to define what "successful" means. Was the INVASION successful? Sure. Was the WAR successful? You need to state the objective. If that objective included a secure, stable Iraq, then obviously it's been a catastrophic failure.

Honestly, I don't think that Iraq is stable (and think it may take a decade before Iraq becomes truly stable) but I think that the instability in Iraq is largely overstated. In my opinion, the US Military can not do anything to increase stability in Iraq at this point. The reason for this is you can not "give" someone democracy and freedom they have to want it. Until the citizens of Iraq are willing to (on the whole) support their government and reject the Militants the insurgents will exist.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[grub]

10/20/30 years from now it is likely that similar circumstances will apear and no one will be better able to handle the situation.

Well then hopefully people will learn from the history of 10/20/30 years previous. "Don't lie to the people about why you're going to war" might be a good place to start.

They just forgot to train their Social skills

[DrYak]

I think we won't need a study that those nuts... ...will have missed to train and develop the brin cells needed to learn to use a shower.

Spatial aspect is important

[dfedfe]

Well, the reason they looked at London cab drivers is because of the massive amount of spatial information they have to know. The hippocampus was first shown to be involved in spatial memory in rats in the '70s (if memory serves), though it is also known to be involved in episodic memory.

The original idea was that the hippocampus holds a map of spatial environments, and so if someone has a very large amount of spatial knowledge, maybe their hippocampal anatomy will reflect that. This hypothesis is supported by this evidence (that lab has been doing these studies for years, not sure why this is claimed to be so new, except perhaps the control subjects who were bus drivers in London, reducing one potential confound). It should be noted that lately it has been shown that there is a very robust spatial code outside of the hippocampus (and feeding into it) so it appears to not be quite as simple as the hippocampus just holding a map.

Now to your questions. Names, stats, and details are semantic memory, not episodic memory, and are therefore not directly related to the hippocampus (except that all semantic memory appears to start off as episodic memorys, which are slowly re-coded, if you like, into just memory of the facts and not the specific episode where you learned the facts). So if you were constantly learning large amounts of new such data, perhaps you'd see such growth in the hippocampus, but merely having it all memorized would be relying on storage out in neocortex, not the hippocampus.

As the hippocampus (specifically the dentate gyrus, one part of it) is one of the few regions known to constantly be producing new cells, it is expected that experience might cause changes in size there. In other parts of cortex it would be more surprising (to me, at least) if there was a significant change in number of neurons. There the changes are more likely to be structural: neurons making new connections with other, existing neurons.

In summary:
hippocampus = spatial information and acquisition of new memories
neocortex = use and storage of existing knowledge

Re:Spatial aspect is important

[Mr Z]

Out of curiosity, how do semantic and episodic memory relate to procedural memory? It seems like many mnemonic schemes (such as rhymes etc. to help you remember a given sequence) rely on using procedural memory to augment semantic memory. It's somewhat of a blend of the two.

You mention re-coding episodic memory into semantic memory. How often do we see blends of those two for supporting a memory? How long do they tend to be linked while the brain "re-codes?"

--Joe

Re:Spatial aspect is important

[dfedfe]

Well, I may have to get a bit speculative here. First, procedural memory is independent of semantic and episodic memory (look up the famous patient HM who lost his episodic memory from surgery for epilepsy but was still able to form new procedural memories).

Procedural memory develops more slowly than episodic/spatial memory (indeed, by its very nature episodic memories only take one exposure to form). This was shown by Packard and White (1996) who let rats perform a task that could be solved with either procedural or spatial memory and then lesioned either the hippocampus or some part of the basal ganglia (important for procedural memory) at different times to see when the rats switched from one strategy to the other.

Of rhymes I'm not sure, as I'm not up to date on language things. Other mnemonic devices in which one associates items to be remembered with other items (like the method of loci from ancient Greece) are more episodic or spatial memory based in that they rely on forming one-shot associations between, e.g., spatial locations and items to be remembered.

The time course for consolidation from episodic to semantic memory is still disputed: sometimes it seems to take very little time (days), but sometimes, especially for HM who was mentioned above, it may seem to take years, but in all cases it appears to be sort of a gradient rather than a sudden jump from episodic to semantic. I think it's safe to say it takes at least a few days, and in particular, it seems to happen during sleep (unfortunately I don't remember if it's slow-wave sleep or REM sleep).

Hope that helps!

Old News

[DjReagan]

This research was reported 6 years ago - why is it surfacing again?

Re:Old News

[MadMidnightBomber]

Someone obviously forgot about it.

Re:+1 Funny

[HappySqurriel]

I don't disagree ...

The terrorists were remarkably successful in their objective; they destroyed their target, made Americans fear terrorism and (if it weren't for quick thinking by the American fed) almost caused a massive crash in the American ecconomy. As far as civilian casualties (about 5,000 wasn't it) they were really not that bad in the grand scheme of things; just considering my 100,000 single attack in the tokyo fire bombing.

What?

You expected a different response?

That's right, as I said earlier I'm not an American ... I don't really care who's president and I can be far more objective about the Military invasion in Iraq (or the terrorist attacks on 9/11) than most Americans can be.

You can disagree with the motivations, but the results (of both the war and the terrorist attacks) were highly successful.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[HappySqurriel]

I was AC for about 3 years (2001-2003), created an account for 2 years (2003-2005) and then got tired of that account (my username was lamely-leet) and created a new one in 2006 ...

Re:+1 Funny

[cp.tar]

Just as long as we understand each other.

Cheers.

(I'm not American either. And the only reason I posted that was to switch the rhetoric.)

Re:+1 Funny

[mabinogi]

In what way did you think it wasn't successful?

Re:+1 Funny

[Gulthek]

The problem is that the insurgents believe that they are fighting the invading foreign influence and their puppet government. In other words, they are fighting for freedom and their government.

Requirements of London cabbies

[lordandrei]

London cabbies, unlike their American counterparts, have to learn the layout of streets and the locations of thousands of places of interest in order to get a license.

Unlike their counterparts in cities like Los Angeles, where knowing the area is a disadvantage and the real talent comes from keeping the passenger in the cab longer than necessary and taking them entirely away from their destination for an increased fare.

Re:Requirements of London cabbies

[steve_l]

oh, london cab drivers know how to come up with any excuse not to go south of the river.

Re:What is it with...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever rated that post as Troll is another America hater (yes, if you hate America you hate its people as well as its gov't).

The comment was obviously implying American cab drivers are stupid or lazy since NYC streets are laid out in a grid therefore easier to navigate.

It's not jingoism when it's true...

[Space cowboy]

I lived in London for 15 years (I now live in the USA). I've got into a cab in London and asked for a road 30 miles away, the guy not only gets me there without asking me for directions, he takes me down tiny narrow streets that avoid the traffic.

Compare this to my experiences in the USA:

- Wanting to get back to my hotel in Sausalito from San Francisco. I'm standing on Lombard (which turns into the Golden gate bridge, the best way to go) and hail a cab. He turns (right) onto a side-street, turns left, turns left, crosses Lombard again, turns right, turns right, crosses Lombard again, etc. He's being told how to get to Sausalito by his controller (I can *hear* his controller saying "turn onto Lombard" at which point he says "I've just crossed Lombard"). This goes on until I lean over and tell him I can direct him.

- Getting off a plane at Newark, having the rest of the day free before a plane home to the UK the next day. Ask cabbie to take me to the Empire State building - hell why not. He doesn't know where it is. I direct him to roughly the right area, and he says "this is as close as I can get". WTF ? Walking about 8 blocks (diagonally) I get to the ESB...

I could go on. In my experience, cabbies in London are top-notch. The only place I've found that has vaguely-similar cabbies is Las Vegas, and I've travelled a fair amount in the US.

Simon.

article doesn't prove that brain regions grow

[Anonymous Coward]

TFA mentions only that taxi drivers have bigger brain(area)s (hippocampus?), not that they actually grow.

An alternative explanation is that taxi drivers have some genetic predisposion for a bigger brain size, which allows them to pass the taxi test more easily.

Only with the new studies mentioned at the end of TFA, about testing brains of drivers also before they become taxi drivers and about testing those who have left their jobs, it will be possible to decide that the brain actually grows...

Where the streets have TOO MANY names.

[The Monster]

Aren't American roads in the large cities laid out in grids anyway?

The older a city is, the less true this is. In a city like Boston, there are neighborhoods with local grids at roughly the same granularity as those in London, and the same tendency of a road passing through an intersection to change names and reset numbering back to 1. Even Manhattan Island, the stereotypical grid of numbered Streets and Avenues, has them laid out according to the general orientation of the island, rather than the points of a compass

By contrast, Washington, DC was carefully planned, with a Cartesian quadrant system of N/S and E/W 'Streets' numbered from the Capitol building, as well as 'Avenues' that run at odd angles to that grid. The Public Land Survey System, which was used for the territories gained/defined after the US became independent of Britain, imposes a compass grid that largely governs newer areas, such as Florida and Western states.

It is often said that St. Louis (built long before the survey system) is the westernmost 'eastern' city, and Kansas City the easternmost 'western' city. A comparison of the two shows that the former indeed has virtually no streets that align with the compass, while the latter has most major roads aligned with the survey grids, right down to the streets across the state line not being quite exactly aligned (due to accumulated errors over the distances from the 5th and 6th Principal Meridians, from which the surveys were conducted).

The reason why London cabbies have to learn so many different street names is because there's so damned many of them, and no particular scheme to tie them together.

Re:Where the streets have TOO MANY names.

[wickedj]

Then you have cities like Tokyo which are old castle towns. Basically, the major roads lead out from the palace area. That makes it real easy to navigate...(rolls eyes).

http://www.cityguide.travel-guides.com/city/126/st reet_map_blank/Far-East-Asia/Tokyo.html

Re:Where the streets have TOO MANY names.

[Jaeph]

I live in the DC area, and many years ago commuted to NYC on a weekly basis. In the process, I used taxis quite often, and never had the problems you describe there. In particular, I remember cabbies cutting through central park, others taking the highways on the outside of the island to bypass the crowded inner streets, and one cabbie in particular who one day got me downtown through a maze of lightly traveled side-streets while I could see rush-hour traffic one block away.

There are other anecdotes, but the point is that in my experience the NYC cabbies did a good job. They may have been "rough around the edges", but they knew their city.

-Jeff

Re:Where the streets have TOO MANY names.

[blake3737]

I near Boston, and the streets are just ridiculous... In my town, 93 south switches to 95/128 north, without ever getting on or off an exit, so you essentially are going north while going south (at least according to the highways). Try telling someone to "take 95/128 south to exit 11, but don't go too far or you'll be on 93 north". Some of the responses I get are really funny.

Re:Use a GPS. Save your brain for something better

[PrinceOfStorms]

"Is this bad? Not unless you value the ability to remember phone numbers.

I completely agree with you except that I think the ability to remember phone numbers might actually have some other uses (like recalling the combination to a safe, the numerical part of a LC classification number, or an identification number you're looking for in a printed list). Not a lot of use for most people, but potentially useful to some.

use of gps, etc.

[Nutty_Irishman]

I read an article 5 or 6 years ago that predicted this change of thinking, that the smartest/brightest individuals wouldn't be the ones that knew everything, but the ones that could figure out information the fastest. Google, wikipedia, gps are all articles that allow you quick access to information. The authors argument that this will hinder our mental thought process ignores the fact that google, wikipedia, gps are all pretty useless unless we know what we are looking for in the first place.

Writing Destroys Memory

[Ranger]

Plato putting words in Socrates mouth had this to say in Phaedrus about how the art of writing destroys memory. So this is nothing new. I think this GPS destroys memory story breaks the record for old news, 2,400 years old:

Socrates: At the Egyptian city of Naucratis, there was a famous old god, whose name was Theuth; the bird which is called the Ibis is sacred to him, and he was the inventor of many arts, such as arithmetic and calculation and geometry and astronomy and draughts and dice, but his great discovery was the use of letters. Now in those days the god Thamus was the king of the whole country of Egypt; and he dwelt in that great city of Upper Egypt which the Hellenes call Egyptian Thebes, and the god himself is called by them Ammon. To him came Theuth and showed his inventions, desiring that the other Egyptians might be allowed to have the benefit of them; he enumerated them, and Thamus enquired about their several uses, and praised some of them and censured others, as he approved or disapproved of them. It would take a long time to repeat all that Thamus said to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts.

But when they came to etters (i.e–writing), This, said Theuth, will make the Egyptians wiser and give them better memories; it is a specific both for the memory and for the wit.

Thamus replied: O most ingenious Theuth, the parent or inventor of an art is not always the best judge of the utility or inutility of his own inventions to the users of them. And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Nefarious Wheel]

Gerald Ford was inept, not stupid, and he inherited the job. He made at least decent one pun* during his tenure, which puts him above average; modern US presidential candidates generally display less wit than Jay Leno.

Sometimes vice-presidents are chosen for their intelligence, which I believe is a ploy to keep them from competing for the top spot.

*("I think you're guilty of putting Descartes before TerHorst")

Not Just London

[UESMark]

Licensed New York cab drivers have to memorize such information too. Though the exam always tends to heavily favor Manhattan knowledge.

Re:Not Just London

[Anonymous Coward]

The average preparation time for the "Knowledge" is nearly 3 years and most applicants have to sit the exam more than 10 times before they pass. The "Knowledge" is the most demanding training for taxi drivers anywhere in the world. See here for more info: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/pco/knowledge.shtml

There sure are a lot of Americans on here trying to make out the "Knowledge" is nothing special or it somehow anti-American to say that it is.

May not be more brain cells

[Decaff]

This does not necessarily mean that there are more brain cells. Increased volume of gray matter can result from the growth of more interconnections between existing cells. Recent studies of mammalian brains suggests that new brain cells may form in adults, but there is a lot of uncertainty about this.

Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

I read the original article. The article didn't mention that another finding of the study was a _decrease_ in size of another area of the hippocampus. The 'growth' was probably just a rearrangement of the cells already present.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[schon]

many people belive in a deeper conspiracy but if there was a successful conspiracy it would imply that GW was smarter than people suspected

Only if you believe he was in charge of the conspiracy.

If Bush is the conspirator's puppet (which seems pretty damn likely) then it means that he is exactly as dumb as most people suspect.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Meccanica]

You are posting as an AC. You don't get to say that.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

Dumb compared to the average American? Of course not. Dumb compared to other presidents? You bet.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

Why not? It won him another election, and you only get two in the US.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[mmdog]

If Bush is the conspirator's puppet (which seems pretty damn likely) then it means that he is exactly as dumb as most people suspect. Once again, /. conspiracy assertions without a shred of evidence or other support. Just give me something, anything, even remotely credible that there is some sort of organized conspiracy in which GWB is some sort of puppet.

Come on, give it up! Who is behind it? Haliburton? CIA? Pat Robertsone? Don't keep us in suspense. If you are going to make wild assertions about conspiracies, the least you could do is lay out the whole theory for us.

Natural Adaptation of Human body.

[prolene]

Disuse atrophy and Use hypertrophy.

my data entry experience

[adrianmonk]

My first full-time job (the kind where you support yourself and pay your own bills) was as a data entry guy. I would sit and read names and addresses and other information off paper (printouts usually, and sometimes business cards) and type the addresses into a computer, along with some information about which product literature they had requested. I did this task, and nothing else, all day long for 40 hours a week. And I did it for a total of around 9 months.

During that time, I had very little occasion to do much math, but I noticed a strange thing after I had quit that job: I went to do some arithmetic in my head, and I found that suddenly and without any effort on my part, I could remember and work with much larger numbers than I had ever been able to before. I was better at doing arithmetic in my head than I had ever been, despite the fact that I hadn't been doing any arithmetic at that time. The only explanation I could come up with is that having to hold small bits of information (including numbers) in my head all day had improved my ability to hold numbers in my head, and thus improved my ability to do arithmetic in my head.

I won't go so far as to say that this brain-growing thing is the explanation. It might just be that I grew more comfortable with the idea of manipulating more data in my head without the need for pencil and paper, in the sense that I didn't have increased innate ability but merely a greater willingness to try it and a better understanding of the ability I did have. Or maybe my brain really did grow. Either way, it was interesting to me that I could improve my ability to do something by doing a lot of something completely different.

Peres views on memory at leweb3..

[slashmojo]

Shimon Peres gave a talk at leweb3 in paris the other day and said something like "why waste our intellectual capacity remembering things when we can just google it" - this from a guy who speaks (at least) three languages (answered questions in english and french at that event) and talked for nearly an hour without any notes - at the grand old age of 83! Maybe he used to be a cabbie..

He suggested we should use our minds to be creative rather than remembering things, which is perhaps not such a bad idea.

Lol troll much?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because we all know that the opposite of "London" is "American". How about, "London cabbies, unlike their Liverpool equivalents..."

Re:+1 Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

Was the WAR successful? You need to state the objective.

Finding and destroying those weapons of mass destruction, that we have absolute proof they have.

.......abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

[johnsmit90210]

The only real answer to all of your real questions is, welcome to tomorrow.

London cabbies vs NY ones

[elh_inny]

The article and the slashdot post fail to mention that most of the Cabbies in UK are from Eastern Europe now.
The job of a taxi driver isn't regarded highly, even despite the high wages + even more through tips.
Plus you can simply earn more by driving more, the job is very flexible and has some more perks.
Anyway, the funny thing about those foreing drivers is they all have to learn the streets and routes of a given city, before even going there.
I did IT for one recruitment company and they would train all the wannabe cabbies just by giving them a street list, a map and few others items. The the prospective employer would interview them about few routes and if they passed they flew to UK.
It all works out pretty well for quite a few years now.

In other news...

[ultranova]

Med-I-Cal, Inc. has filed a patent on a revolutionary new method of improving muslce tone. From an interview with company CEO Mr. Smith:

"After long and expensive testing, we have found that repeatedly lifting heavy objects for as little as 15 minutes each day causes muscle mass in adults to increase and the amount of body fat to decrease without any of the side effects our current line of hormonal products may, under extremely rare circumstances and with no liability to us, show. We are seeking to bring such objects with an easy to grip handle into the market within the next 10 years."

Mr. Smith also stated that the makers of many piratical weightlifting products currently flooding the market would face "heavy consequences" and proceeded to pick up and throw a car towards a 3rd-story window in a fit of hormone-induced rage. Luckily a passing taxi driver was able to stop the car in midflight and bring it down safely with his amazing psychokinetic powers, the result of strenuously exercising his brain for years beyond human limits.

Mr. Smith and the taxi driver then engaged in a superpowered fight that reduced most of downtown into smoking rubble. The fight ended in a draw when the smoke caused the combatants to lose sight of each other and wander off. The taxi drivers union settled out of court to use their mind powers to restore the city, heal the injured and raise the dead, a task that took them approximately 15 minutes. Mr. Smith, being the head of a large corporation, was not accused despite having started the fight.

Yes, we must avoid GPS systems...

[Churla]

They would reduce the increase in the size, and deliciousness, of the brain..

Oops.. did I say deliciousness? Ignore that, there's no way that this study could have been funded by hungry zombies hoping to fatten the calves before the slaught.. er.... never mind that too.

Re:What is it with...

[thetroll123]

The aforementioned comment could have been just as insightful, if nor more so, had it simply been "London cabbies have to learn the layout of streets and the locations of thousands of places of interest in order to get a licence."

Well, that's just untrue. I didn't know American cab drivers weren't required to take a similar test. The comment which appeared gave that information, whereas your suggested replacement doesn't.

I for one welcome...uh, taxi overlords?

[Bearhouse]

Yeah, old news. A London cabbie even won the TV 'Mastermind' competition many years back...

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Hillgiant]

Dude, Anonymous Coward is one of the oldest accounts on /.

One of the most prolific posters, too.

grown by specialists

[robophobe]

Did anyone else read that as "adult brains grown by specialists". I got this image of brains in vats - evil science experiment - for a second there.

Re: Cause or Effect or both?

[Chris Burke]

Do taxi drivers' brains expand to provide more memory, or do people with poor memory just forget to become taxi drivers?

A huge problem with any of these correlation studies is determining, accurately, which way the cause->effect relationship runs.

Don't get hung up on cause->effect, which implies a one-way relationship. Some things fall into that category, but many things, particularly those involving the brain, are feedback loops where the factors involved are both cause and effect at the same time. Our brain is loaded with feedback loops, as that is how we learn. We know that learning affects the brain in a physical way (children who were never exposed to language have grossly underdeveloped language centers), and we know that the brain's physical parameters affect learning (a child with damaged/underdeveloped language centers may be unable to learn language).

So the taxi-drivers probably self-select for memory because that's what the job takes -- e.g. I'd never take a job as a driver unless desperate, since I'm terrible at remembering street names and names in general. Yet it only makes sense that the task of having to constantly remember directions and street names would enhance the portions of the brain responsible for remembering them.

Seattle

[Anonymous Coward]

Seattle at least, and some older cities on the same coast such as San Francisco, completely break the mould here. While downtown Seattle has, sometimes, a sort of grid (because part of what was there first was gutted), driving around the immediate environs such as Fremont, Ballard and Queen Anne is an interesting exercise in navigation. One way streets, name changes, irregular intersections and best of all completely irregular matching of the older residential streets to the bigger grid make it really tricky to get even a few blocks without your route coiling like a drunken cobra. The topography on which the cities are built makes it worse yet.

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Brandybuck]

I see this got modded down. Offtopic I could understand, but not overrated. Sheesh.

We need a moderation category: "-1, Moderator Offended"

Re:So how does this explain George Bush ?

[Meccanica]

Oops, sorry. I didn't notice the 0-digit UID.