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Mac OS X Versus Windows Vista

An anonymous reader writes "With Macworld set to start Jan. 8, InformationWeek has a detailed comparison that pits Mac OS X against Vista. According to reviewer John Welch, OS X wins hands down. The important point: he doesn't say Vista is bad, just that technically speaking, OS X remains way ahead. Do you agree?"

36 of 697 comments (clear)

  1. Re:It doesn't matter by Yonzie · · Score: 5, Informative
    come on, make ALL of those popup dialogs keyboard accessible!
    They are.
    Use [tab] to select and [space] to "click". You need to look after the faint blue highlight around the button though, and if you press [Enter], the blue button is selected, not the higlight.
  2. Re:.NET by blackpaw · · Score: 2, Informative

    Word - .NET and C# are just amazing, and Visual Studio is a *really* nice IDE. SharpDevelop (GPL) is pretty good as well.

    I actually see .NET as a real opportunity for linux. If there was a decent 2.0 implementation on Linux I would switch my web development to it just like that.

    WinForms problems? I have written custom from designers for DevStudio, it would be (relatively) easy to implement a GTK or QT hierarchy, experts and designer that integrated with DevStudio.

  3. Re:Why not wait for Leopard?! by samkass · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is especially true considering the industry rags were comparing the Longhorn announced features with the then-released MacOS X 10.3 years ago, then again when 10.4 came out. Now that we're a few months from 10.5, you'd think they'd compare the 10.5 announced features against the now-released Vista, but no, the Mac doesn't get that advantage. Admittedly it's a little bit of Apple's fault with them being so secretive, but still... compare 2007 releases if you're going to compare.

    --
    E pluribus unum
  4. They're different... by cookd · · Score: 3, Informative

    I will certainly admit that there are a lot of things to like about OS X, and for some people, it will be the better choice. For others, Windows is better, and Vista is a big step forward.

    The article comes across as "Why OS X is better than Vista" instead of "Comparison of OS X and Vista". But that's par for the course. The author does have some valid comments about areas that could have been done better in Vista.

    I do disagree on some of the evaluations of Vista's merits. The most misunderstood area is User Access Control.

    Not that UAC is perfect -- I've got a nice list of things I don't like about it. For example, if the system incorrectly detects that a program probably needs to run as Admin, it is a bit of a pain to convince the system to just run it normally. And there aren't any good tools for working with UAC from the command line (i.e. I want an equivalent to Unix su). I've written some myself, but they really should have been included with the system. And some tasks that should be able to be done by accepting one UAC prompt end up requiring 5 or 6.

    However, the author of the article passes UAC off as useless and annoying. Well, it is annoying, but so is finding my car keys every time I want to drive my car. But it is definitely not useless - just misunderstood.

    UAC consists of three mechanisms, along with related tools for configuring them:

    1. The shell of an Administrator can optionally be run with reduced permissions. This means that if UAC is enabled, the user's shell (explorer.exe) will drop privileges when it is initialized (after the user logs on). In other words, the shell tells the kernel that even though it is running under the account of an Administrator, the kernel should deny any requests to use administrator privileges, and should not grant any access to resources based on the user's membership in the Administrators group.

    2. There is a mechanism to regain administrator privileges so that administrative tasks can still be performed. If you are logged on as a user in the Administrators group, this mechanism requires a confirmation dialog (ok/cancel). If you are logged on as an unprivileged user, this mechanism requires a username + password of an administrator ("over the shoulder login").

    Note that this mechanism must be protected from abuse. Potential abuses include: keyloggers (capture the administrator's password), event injection (simulate a mouse-click or keyboard event to respond to the confirmation dialog automatically), and luring (put a malicious executable with the same name as a trusted executable into the user's path, then trick the user into trying to run the trusted executable). Protecting against these abuses leads to a bit more inconvenience, but a lot more safety. This is why nothing else can be done while the UAC prompt is active -- the UAC prompt turns on some security features to protect against keyloggers and event injection. This is something that is more annoying than OS X's system, but also significantly more secure.

    3. There is a mechanism to detect programs that require administrator privileges. Vista-aware applications include a manifest that tells the program loader whether administrator privileges are required. Vista also tries to automatically detect non-Vista-aware applications that require administrator privileges (such as installers). For now, this is a bit of a pain when it doesn't work, but in the future, this will end up working well. For example, as the author indicated, it becomes more challenging to install a pre-Vista application to your personal folder without help from an admin (Vista detects that the installer probably needs admin privileges). In the future, the installer will have a manifest telling Vista that it doesn't need admin privileges immediately, and will ask for them only if the user decides to install the app onto the system instead of to a personal folder.

    --
    Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
  5. Re:Inactive windows - he's got it wrong by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'd have to re-read the article, but I thought he was refering to the "traffic lights" in the top left... I thought the point the author was trying to make was that the Vista equivalent is not as clearly identifiable and that the eye is drawn to the bright back button on the inactive window in the example screenshot. Still, he's a Mac user - so his familiarity with the OSX is understandable.

  6. Re:It doesn't matter by Megane · · Score: 4, Informative

    Use [tab] to select and [space] to "click".

    Not by default. First you have to go into the Keyboard & Mouse preferences and select the full keyboard access for "All controls".

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  7. Re:It doesn't matter by lord_rob+the+only+on · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't remember where I read it, but I think any version of Vista can be run inside a VM. What you can't do is running multiple instances of one licence of Vista inside a VM (also one licence of vista and the same licence running simultaneously inside a vm), unless you use the ultimate edition.

  8. Re:Wrong. XNU source code is no longer available. by Megane · · Score: 5, Informative

    Since the x86 switch, Apple no longer makes the XNU source code available.

    Wrong. http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/07/ 2359256

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  9. Re:Wrong. XNU source code is no longer available. by hattig · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apple made it available a few months after that storm in a teacup.

    They were probably tidying up the code, and people thought that it was Apple not releasing the kernel source code anymore.

    What's worse is that you replied with this to a post that gave you an explicit link to the page you could get all the sources from. One click on "Darwin" and what do I see?

    Mac OS X 10.4.8
    Darwin 8.8
      Source (PPC)
      Source (x86)


    So, yeah, 100% completely wrong.

  10. Re:Oops by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

    Again, I think the consistency that the author was talking about can be seen clearly in the OSX "traffic lights" and their behaviour. I can't think of a single application that does not have these (even WOW...) Now look at the Vista screenshot - Office looks completely different from the OS itself. Only the red X function appears to highlight the active window. Not as distinctive as the OSX method. Still, not the end of he world either...

  11. Re:Wow, that wasn't biased, LOL... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Well what did you really expect, considering the author's blog header and all those Apple Store affiliate ads.

  12. Re:It doesn't matter by Tim+Browse · · Score: 3, Informative

    The thing about PC gaming is that games on PC don't really use the operating system at all.

    Yes, they do. I tried writing a PC game once without using the OS, but I couldn't open any of my data files.

    They all run in full-screen mode with their own UI.

    Oh, you mean they don't really use the Window manager? The OS is more than a GUI.

    As long as your version of Windows has the needed version of DirectX, etc. etc., a committed PC gamer doesn't really care if he's running Vista, XP, 2K, or 95.

    Unless I'm mistaken, quite a few games now don't (officially) support 95.

    BTW, DirectX uses the OS, which you may not have realised.

  13. Re:It doesn't matter by Joe+U · · Score: 5, Informative

    The thing about PC gaming is that games on PC don't really use the operating system at all

    Except for the sound, video, keyboard, mouse, monitor, network card, hdd, cd/dvd and other drivers the OS provides.

    Windows isn't just the fancy GUI, it's a standard interface to non-standard hardware. Anyone who used DOS for gaming will remember the absolute nightmare of getting sound, video, network and CD drivers all running for every game.

  14. Re:.NET by Agilus · · Score: 3, Informative

    I actually had a reason to do all of those things, with the exception #of 5 (but it might be do-able, don't know off the top of my head) with ancient Java 1.4 a few years back. You can find that Java's Reflection API will handle most of the stuff you're talking about, while its JNI API will let you call separate methods for object allocation and constructor initialization. It's also possible that you might be able to do it all with the Reflection API, without having to resort to JNI - I just came across the allocation functionality while I was creating some Java-C++ bridge code.

    That said, I'm looking to getting my hands dirty with some Objective-C code in the near future.

    --
    hackshop.com - My tech hobby project hub
  15. Re:It doesn't matter by lucky13pjn · · Score: 1, Informative

    Unless I'm mistaken, quite a few games now don't (officially) support 95. Most if not all games do not support or will even run on Win 95. In fact, some games now refuse to even install on Win2k, which isn't that much older than WinXP.
  16. Re:.NET by PetiePooo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Have you ever used Delphi or C++Builder? The .NET API and the Borland Visual Component Library (VCL) were built by the same guy. .NET has the advantage of being his 2nd iteration, and C# the second iteration of Java, so his team had a chance to work the kinks out... Still, C++Builder/Delphi were vastly superior IDEs to VB6, not to mention that they didn't require programming in VB... (gag)

    Borland has even released a free (as in beer) version called Turbo C++ Explorer. Not expandable like the original C++Builder from a few years ago, but still very nice for writing simple Win32 apps. Installation can be a pain, but if you make it through that, you'll notice many similarities between its VCL and the .NET APIs.

    p.s. Yes, I'm a Borland fanboy.. 8-)

  17. Re:.NET by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

    In Objective-C, you allocate space for an object with +alloc, initialise it -init, and free it with -dealloc. If you want to implement pools for a particular object type, then the simplest way of doing it is to simply override -dealloc so that is adds the object to a list, and +alloc so it gives you the first object from the list. If you want to do something a bit more clever, take a look at +allocWithZone:. NSObject's +alloc method actually calls this with the default zone. If you want to create a lot of short-lived objects, you can create a zone which will just allocate objects linearly, and then free them all at once. With the GNU runtime, you can do a lot more with NSZone, but on OS X it's an opaque type. Similar functionality, however, is exposed via some of the stuff in malloc.h on OS X.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  18. Re:.NET by nickallen · · Score: 3, Informative

    1. Enumerate all the subclasses of a given class, or classes that implement a particular interface, including those supplied in plug-ins, at runtime.

    This is not directly possible in Java API but can be done with a small utility function that uses reflection.

          2. Call methods by name.

    Again this can be done by reflection. You loose type safety so it's not encouraged.

          3. Query whether a delegate object implements a given method, allowing for informal protocols.

    Again this can be done through reflection. As Java tries to be type safe this is not part of the language syntax. You should use interfaces in this case. But it is possible to do this using reflection API as well.

          4. Handle the case where an object tries to call a method on my object that doesn't exist, to allow the simple creation of generic proxy objects.

    This is something Java and most statically type safe languages try to avoid as in most cases this is a programming error and it is better to catch at compile time. Using reflection you could check if the object supported the method or not though.

          5. Add methods to a class, even if it's part of the standard library and I don't have the source code (I can even do this at runtime, although it's messier, and I haven't ever needed to).

    This can be done with AspectJ.

          6. Separate the allocation and initialisation of an object into separate methods, to allow different allocation policies to be implemented (e.g. pools for commonly re-cycled objects) transparently to users of the class.

    Java implementations try to detect this automatically. In fact I think some implementations of Java can allocate objects faster than a malloc because they do pooling for you. But it would be nice if this could be done in Java I guess.

  19. Re:It doesn't matter by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 3, Informative

    I wouldn't mind having 'Final Cut Pro' as it's an application that makes it easy to do video editing. It, however, like all programs that makes a task 'easy' tends to direct the user along it's prescribed method for doing the task.

    None of what it accomplishes can't be done using other programs. And I feel more in control picking and chosing components. Plus, the existence of 'Final Cut Pro' on the Mac platform crowds out and eliminates the motivation for other people to come in and develop competing products. On Windoze there isn't a 'clear leader' in the area of video editing, so out of the anarchy come more options and choices. I like options and choices. I also cannot justify spending the tons of money for a new Macintosh, and all the new software I'd have to buy to get equivalent performance with other tasks.

    Really, though, for most purposes at home I use NetBSD these days. But for video editing and reproduction, good old Windows 2000 works okay, and I've registered a collection of shareware apps to meet my needs.

  20. Re:It doesn't matter by kcarlin · · Score: 2, Informative

    Speaking of utterly unimpressive, Read TFA. InformationWeek != Macworld.

    InformationWeek is a long standing IT periodical that is not editorially tied to any one vendor.

    Macworld and the various Windows XXX publications can reasonably be expected to make a case for their own platforms, but will point out at times where the competition is doing something better.

    The feature that TFA latches on to as the key failure of Vista is the implicit surprise in Vista that something the user tried actually worked. Plug in a USB device, get a dialog box. Connect to a network, get a dialog box. And my favorite, the Word button that wants you to stop everything to tell you what it does because there was absolutely no better way imaginable to convey the button's functionality. (You would think that whole dancing paperclip fiasco would made an impression on someone somewhere in Redmond. Perhaps the fact that they 1) haven't added a feature to Word in a decade worth paying for an upgrade and 2) have, thanks to 1), trained longtime users to simply catalog the breakage in new versions rather than explore new features which have proven to be of limited or negative value (like the grand unity between numbered lists and numbered paragraphs that rendered numbered paragraphs totally unusable in the 21st Century).)

    Big RTFA.

    --
    Free Adam Smith! (Or best offer.)
  21. Re:It doesn't matter by L0rdJedi · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Mac approach - simplicity and usability with the option for power use - wins out every time.

    Except it confuses the hell out of the power users coming from Windows, ya know, the ones (like me) that don't know it can even be turned on.

  22. Re:Because Tiger is already better. by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 2, Informative

    Major innovation will be on Linux and OS X. It will take a month or two for Linux to absorb new OS X features...

    I wish. I don't see linux absorbing major new features from OS X in a month, nor many of them even in years. I like Linux. I run Linux, even on the desktop. Linux is ahead of OS X in a number of ways. But Linux is still missing a whole lot of features that lay the groundwork for what makes OS X my main desktop. Most of what I see Linux taking from OS X is minor eye candy and UI ideas.

    ...and OS X will generally absorb some of the good ideas from Linux in the next release of their OS...

    Yeah, you hit the nail on the head here. OS X adds a few Linux/UNIX features with every release, while ignoring yet other features. Yay! traceD and virtual desktops. Boo! no ubiquitous update manager for all applications.

  23. I don't know about Java by melted · · Score: 4, Informative

    I don't know about Java, but you can do much of this in .NET:

          1. Enumerate all the subclasses of a given class, or classes that implement a particular interface, including those supplied in plug-ins, at runtime.

    ** You can, through reflection

          2. Call methods by name.

    ** You can, through reflection

          3. Query whether a delegate object implements a given method, allowing for informal protocols.

    ** You can, through reflection

          4. Handle the case where an object tries to call a method on my object that doesn't exist, to allow the simple creation of generic proxy objects.

    ** That can never happen in C#

          5. Add methods to a class, even if it's part of the standard library and I don't have the source code (I can even do this at runtime, although it's messier, and I haven't ever needed to).

    ** What's wrong with inheritance?

          6. Separate the allocation and initialisation of an object into separate methods, to allow different allocation policies to be implemented (e.g. pools for commonly re-cycled objects) transparently to users of the class.

    ** Not needed in .NET by design. You can't allocate anything on your own.

  24. Re:Ever used Python, OCaml, Common Lisp, Smalltalk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The Haskell version may well be shorter but it generally takes a much longer time to write and then, when somebody comes along to maintain the code, it is very difficult to understand the deeply nested recursion. It probably also runs 50x slower!

    Wrong. Haskell code often proves to be very understandable to maintenance programmers just because it's so short and concise. And really, you don't end up with "deeply nested recursion" when your typical function is only six lines of code or less. It's easier for a developer to understand a function when all six lines fit onto a single screen. That can't be said for languages like Java or C#, where an equivalent function may take upwards of 60 lines of code.

    Execution speed is only really a problem when you're using a non-JIT interpreter like Hugs. If you're using the GHC native code compiler, then you'll get fast executables. GHC 6.6 offers some serious performance improvements over previous versions.

  25. Re:It doesn't matter by vrochette · · Score: 2, Informative

    Try the Apple+TAB shortcut. Same as Alt+Tab in Win.

  26. Re:It doesn't matter by somethinghollow · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's why PHP.net is a boon to PHP developers. They didn't just throw the kitchen sink into PHP. They threw in the furniture, the windex, and even the toilet brush. They even went out and got more stuff to throw in. However, if I need to do something that I feel like there ought to be a function for, I just Google PHP.net, and I usually find it. My fingers never leave the keyboard, though I do leave my editor. That said, good luck finding an easy-to-use reference for, say, C#. If the documentation is there, most of the time having an obscure function is nice.

  27. Helpful Mac Enthusiasts... by DivideByZero · · Score: 4, Informative

    Highlight and [cmd]- C to take data from X11 to the apple side.

    Hold down [opt] and click to paste from the apple side into X11 (That's the middle-click emulation)

    I had this question earlier today, and looked it up.

  28. Re:It doesn't matter by gobbo · · Score: 2, Informative
    You've described a market of about 60,000 annual sales to Apple, though, you know. They can't survive in niche markets like that.

    You did invoke Final Cut Pro--the consumer space is another matter entirely. If you want to compare iLife (includes iMovie + iDVD) to anything out there, I suggest you take a swing at it yourself, as it's hard to understand how much "more in control" one feels when everything works without grief, instead of spending lots of time figuring out how to integrate programs from different vendors, different codecs, what parts go where, etc. Your "in control" feeling as a tinkerer puts you into a niche as well, and your comments are contradictory in that sense--Apple has the consumer space for media production figured out, it's a legit driver of sales and part of the reason for their current growth.

    I've spent lots of time teaching video production to beginner and advanced students on Premiere Pro, Ulead products, discreet! products, and iMovie - Final Cut Express/Pro, and I can tell you that beginners are much more productive and creative when using iMovie, and that Premiere Pro is harder to keep running than Final Cut. Would you feel even more in control if you got more done, to a higher standard, in the same amount of time?

    Choice is good, as long as they're good choices. Hooray for shareware video software on Windows, for the few who can stomach them, and blessed are those who don't know better. Anyway, as a *nix user, shouldn't you be using Kino or MainActor? Try out the LiveCD for dyne:bolic sometime, or try blender--it runs on Windows too.

  29. Re:It doesn't matter by supermank17 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think what the gp might have been referring to is that even if you in general know what you're doing, if you don't know an option exists, you aren't going to look for how to enable said option. I've been using OSX for a couple of years, but I never knew that it was possible to enable this extra keyboard support until today. I'd just noticed that, huh, I can't use the keyboard to do some things, weird. I never thought to look for a way to enable keyboard support, because I didn't know it was even possible.

  30. Re:It doesn't matter by notwrong · · Score: 2, Informative

    Another great shortcut is the Apple-backtick/tilde keystroke to cycle within the windows of the foreground application. Physically right above the tab key, so the related functionality is quite intuitive (to me at least). I have used this all the time since I heard about it!

  31. Re:It doesn't matter by Storlek · · Score: 2, Informative

    It should also be pointed out that in many dialogs, pressing command(apple key) and a letter will press a button. For example, in the shutdown dialog, command-R restarts. Actually, in the shutdown dialog, you don't need the command key. Elsewhere, yes, that is correct.
    --
    Bears don't normally eat things that talk and move backwards.
  32. Re:Service Packs by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2, Informative

    Microsoft introduced driver signing in an attempt to fix the problem with unstable drivers. If you try to install an unsigned driver, XP bitches at you about it, but lets you continue anyway if you really want.

    However, some companies intentionally defraud Microsoft's test lab.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  33. Re:Summary: Apple is better because it is Apple by Lacota · · Score: 3, Informative

    About the ipconfig thing.. Most Windows users are terrified of using the GUI as it is, can you imagine telling them to use the command line? We're not the normal Windows user. Why do they want their IP (Ever play older online games?)? ipconfig is obscure. It's a throwback to the command-line day. Joe-Six-Pack won't know the difference between backslash and slash, let alone how to navigate DOS. You're making the assumption that the user knows how to find and use the command line, you're also assuming they know what the command line is. It's not one step either. Start Run Type in 'cmd' Type in 'ipconfig' No, you cant just type ipconfig from the 'run' menu. it executes the program, then closes the window, a 'feature' of XP.

    --
    It is not a god that would do evil biddings, but only a mortal and its limited knowledge would let such atrocities exist
  34. Re:Because Tiger is already better. by redanzl · · Score: 2, Informative

    I use AppZapper. Cleans out everything that was related to the installed app.

    --
    I'm gonna do what I want and I'm gonna get paid -- Tom Waits
  35. Re:It doesn't matter by elbobo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just type "php.net/[keywords]" and it'll search PHP's function library.

  36. Re:It doesn't matter by garote · · Score: 2, Informative

    Cool. Then you'll appreciate that you can do exactly the same thing you describe, on OS X - with the added bonus that if you want to cycle through the windows of only the foreground application, you use command-`, which is right above the tab key. So you can tab through your Word documents without ever accidentally tabbing into something else. (By the way, command-` is implemented by the OS, so it works automatically across ALL applications.)