Been Robbed Recently? Check Ebay

fistfullast33l writes "A man from Great Neck, Long Island has been arrested on charges of stealing electronic equipment and selling it on Ebay. The police were tipped off when one of his alleged victims was searching for a replacement GPS device and found a perfect match on eBay — almost too perfect. A quick check of the serial number (note to cyber-criminals: don't post those) showed that it was the exact device that had been stolen." From the article: "Police and prosecutors were hesitant to provide details of how they determined all the devices had been stolen, but at least two of the laptops were stamped 'Property of St. John's University.' Detective Ray Cote noted that the GPS devices specifically had the addresses of the legitimate owners programmed in and police were now contacting those victims to eventually return the items."

Comments

Eventually?

[hahafaha]

...police were now contacting those victims to eventually return the items.

Just a minute, sir. I'm almost done downloading this pr0n.

Re:Eventually?

[aussie_a]

No, you see one of the perks of being a policeman is getting to use stolen property for a while before it's returned.

Re:Eventually?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a motorcycle stolen, and a few days later it appeared on eBay, all numbers matching, and then one of the detectives on the case decided it was more important to go after kids with a small amount of weed, than to go after a kid for stealing a $10k crotch-rocket. Needless to say, it's generally pointless to count on the police to do anything anyways. Especially since I was warned to not go after the guy myself, or persue the case, otherwise I'd be arrested and prosecuted for illegally investigating a police matter. Bah!

well

[User 956]

A man from Great Neck, Long Island has been arrested on charges of stealing electronic equipment and selling it on Ebay.

A++++ WOULD DEFINITELY STEAL FROM AGAIN

Re:well

[blantonl]

Reply by blantonl: Didn't steal just borrowed. Enjoy the goods and please come again!

Re:well

[Andrzej Sawicki]

And again...

Re:well

[Kangburra]

A++++ WOULD DEFINITELY STEAL FROM AGAIN

I had mod points, but you're already +5 Funny, should be more.

That's a /. classic! :-)

Re:well

[nanojath]

Nobody told him you're supposed to use eFence.com for these sorts of transactions.

Re:well

[RxScram]

Awwww, shucks... that just redirects to a landscape company :(

Re:well

[nanojath]

Goddamned domain squatters (fence sitters, in this case...)

What happens to the buyers?

[carterhawk001]

Ive been wondering, what will happen to the people who bought from him? Will they be required to return what they bought to the original owners? Will they be tracked down by the police for recieving stolen goods?

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[hahafaha]

Very good question. My guess is that they will be tracked down and required to return the items, but will be compensated at the expense of the thief.

They will certainly not get into trouble for the purchase of stolen goods, and if they do, any reasonable judge would automatically acquit them.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, The persons that bought it paid the fair price for other used equipment. So paid in kind they would get to keep the merchandise and the previous owners would go after the Ebay seller, or the insurance company would.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Kalriath]

Completely wrong. The property IS taken by the original owners (or their insurance company or whatever) and the defrauded people are paid by prosecuting the thief.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Vellmont]

Very good question. My guess is that they will be tracked down and required to return the items, but will be compensated at the expense of the thief.

I seriously doubt the police are going to bother with this, or even have the resources to do so. Most of these buyers aren't going to be from NYC, so there's a jurisdiction problem. Also who's to say EVERYTHING he sold is stolen? It probbably is, but that's not proof.

The best that could be accomplished is to contact each buyer and tell them the seller sold stolen items on ebay, and the item they bought might be stolen. Then ask them to look for information on the items that might identify the owner.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Chabil Ha']

They will certainly not get into trouble for the purchase of stolen goods, and if they do, any reasonable judge would automatically acquit them.

Unless eBay was being used to launder them...

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the big, unsolved legal questions of all time. I think everyone has their (legal) take on it.

In my country (Norway) such an item would in most cases not need to be returned, if it was acquired "in good faith". The test of good faith is usually harder to pass the more specialist the item is, as the parties would be more careful and knowledgeable about what they are buying, and the shadier the circumstances (e.g. far below market value or buying it on the street). If there is good faith however, the item is considered lost from the original owner and at most what he will get is full compensation out of what is recovered from the thief.

I believe the exception to that is land and housing..

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[dubdays]

They will certainly not get into trouble for the purchase of stolen goods, and if they do, any reasonable judge would automatically acquit them.

The key word being reasonable. With all of the stupidness in the judicial system, these so-called "reasonable" judges seem to be getting harder to come by.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[tekiegreg]

Disclaimer: IANAL The legal doctrine here is one of "Reasonable Expectation". For example if I bought a GPS device from a stranger on the street for $20, would a reasonable human assume that the deal is too good to be true and that it was probably stolen? Generally the judges would say yes. If said reasonable expectation were established, yes I'd be required to return the item and no I won't necessarily get compensated for it. However, if I bought a GPS Device for $600 at Best Buy, and woah mamma! Best Buy picks a wrong supplier and it was stolen property. Nobody would have suspected it was stolen. The liability here shifts entirely to the thief and most likely I'm keeping my GPS device. Now reasonable expectation that something selling on auction at Ebay like was said? Tough call, ask your local judge what he thinks of reasonable expectation...

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Wansu]

  what will happen to the people who bought from him? Will they be required to return what they bought to the original owners? Will they be tracked down by the police for recieving stolen goods?

Most likely they'll have to return the goods. Ain't no telling whether they'll get a refund. I seriously doubt the cops would get them for fencing stolen merchandise unless they'd bought lots of stuff from the same seller. Then, they'd have some explaning to do.

A music store in town bought stolen equipment from somebody. I don't know whether the store manager knew the stuff was stolen but before they could sell it, members of the band who had been ripped off came shopping for replacement gear and what should they find but a speaker cabinet with a ripped grill cloth which had been expertly and distinctively repaired by the bass player's mother. They called the rest of the band and kept looking. A third of their equipment turned up in that store. The store manager was red-faced. He didn't want a bad reputation. I have to hand it to him. He ate it. He gave them every piece of equipment they could identify. (They had given the cops a detailed description of what was taken. These guys weren't yo-yos. They'd written down serial numbers.)

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[hahafaha]

Except that there are all kinds of reasons why something that normally costs 600 dollars was sold for 20, that do not involve theft. For example, my father works for Bose Corporation, where they have insane discounts on some things - for example, he was able to get Microsoft Office, which normally costs around 400 bucks for 20.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

I seriously doubt the police are going to bother with this, or even have the resources to do so. Most of these buyers aren't going to be from NYC, so there's a jurisdiction problem. Also who's to say EVERYTHING he sold is stolen? It probbably is, but that's not proof.

Once the stolen material crosses state lines it becomes a federal case. I had a roommate arrested a couple of years back for receiving stolen material from Florida when he lived in New York. I believe the case was eventually settled in New York courts (for material stolen in Florida), but that was only one option.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[MurphyZero]

I can get Microsoft Office for $20. I work for a very large group that uses Microsoft. In return for selling out to Microsoft, all the employees get the offer to buy a licensed copy of Office for $20. Of course, 8 years ago, we were allowed to take the disks to install on our home computer for free. 8 years ago, I had Office on my home computer. Now, OpenOffice, also free.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[sectionboy]

That may be true for most cases except for ebay. Competition between buyers will push the price to somewhere very close to the "market price", given there are enough buyers interested. In some rare case of "unreasonable" closing price, you can but envy at the buyer's luck. That's the nature/beauty of auction system.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, they are not entitled to the goods. There are two ways of looking at it but the conclusion is the same.
In common law, the thief doesn't the rightful title to the goods so nemo dat quod habet, he cannot sell what he doesn't have. The ownerhsip is retained in the legitamate owner as the law does not consider being robbed as a transfer of ownership. In equity, the thief, by stealing the goods from the owners, becomes a constructive trustee and holds the goods on constructive trust for the owners. A constructive trustee has right to sell off the goods and would have to return it too them if possible or to compensate for the person's loss. The goods would be trust property and can be traced back to the rightful owner.
It seems that the only thing they can do is sue the thief.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[aussie_a]

Wow you must have some pretty clever thieves to be able to steal entire houses.

Husband: Will you be glad to be home after visiting the in-laws honey?
Wife: Yeah.
Husband: Well here we... hmmm... the house isn't there.
Wife: *sigh* Have you checked your pockets?
Husband: Now why would it be in my pockets? Someone must have stolen it.
Wife: Check your pockets. You're always leaving stuff there.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[TheoMurpse]

I don't know about personal property, but real property (i.e. land) law handles it like this: if A sells B defective land (i.e. A does not own the land, rather C does), and B then acts in reliance of this (such as by modifying the land), C may not recover the land; B is the rightful owner. I'm not completely sure about if B does not rely on the deal, but I believe that once B takes possession of the land, it belongs to B and C may not recover the land.

I'd imagine that C could sue A for the fair market value of the land, but don't take my word for it. Also, this rule may not extend to personal property, but it seems to make sense prima facie.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[dr_d_19]

In Sweden, up until just recently, you could buy something in "good faith", which matches your description. This is, however, not the case anymore. If you buy stolen goods you will need to return it to the previous owner no matter what, and hope to get your money back from whoever you bought it from.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[pakar]

Quite a good law in theory, but not in practice.

Would be better to have a "Return the goods or testify against the person that sold the item(s)" clause, then people would start taking note about who they buy stuff from and it would be so much simpler to trace the real thief instead of unsuspecting buyers. But still ofcourse require that you make an inquiry with the police before you buy anything with a serial-number on.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[CmdrGravy]

In the UK you have to return the goods and there is no compensation. A lot of people buying second hand cars get stung when the police turn up and tell them the car was stolen.

The car is the returned to it's orginal owner or sold by the insurance comany and the buyer gets nothing. This is why it's a good idea to check whether a car is stolen before you buy it because not even your insurance will cover you for this. I would guess its the same with any stolen goods in the UK.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[dr_d_19]

I would rather think that using good faith as an excuse is good in theory but not in practice. The problem is that there are too many gray areas, and people wouldn't mind buying stolen goods when cheaper even though they suspect (or know) that they are dealing with stolen goods.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[blueCommand]

In my country, Sweden, it was like that some years ago.
Nowadays you're commiting a crime by buying stolen property, and it's up to you to find out before you buy it, like wanting to see the original receet ( sp? the thing you get when you buy something, like an invoice but the other way around :P )

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[syukton]

Stolen goods crossing state lines? The FBI might be interested if the goods are valuable enough.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[thetroll123]

In the UK title to the stolen goods never passes from the original owner (except in an archaic situation known as market ouvert). The innocent buyer of the stolen goods cannot acquire title to them from someone who has no title to sell ("nemo dat quod non habet"). The innocent buyer does, of course, have a claim against the thief for whatever he paid for the goods, but no claim to the goods themselves.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Receipt.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[canuck57]

The car is the returned to it's orginal owner or sold by the insurance comany and the buyer gets nothing. This is why it's a good idea to check whether a car is stolen before you buy it because not even your insurance will cover you for this. I would guess its the same with any stolen goods in the UK.

I can't say I feal sorry for the buyers either. They didn't register the car and should know too cheap has it's reasons.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Vellmont]

Stolen goods crossing state lines? The FBI might be interested if the goods are valuable enough

A few hundred dollars a piece GPSs to people who had no reason to believe the stuff was stolen? I sure hope the FBI doesn't waste time with small time stuff like this.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this was also the case in Sweden. Which brings me to a funny story. A good friend of my uncle's; Buys car in sweden, at around market price for the used car. He registers the car. I think he is told that it is a stolen car. I forget if he finds out that it was stolen or if Sweden at the time didn't check if a car was stolen in an other country when you tried to register it. A few months later takes car to Germany on vacation with family. Police pull car over, inform him that it is stolen and tow car away. Leaving him and family on the side of the road. I believe the car was stolen in Germany. I think that Sweden had to get change the law that allowed stolen property to become a member of EU.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd prefer they "waste" their time on their charter, rather than listen to my phone calls.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Bloke down the pub]

a "Return the goods or testify against the person that sold the item(s)" clause

Great, as if I don't get enough blame already.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow you must have some pretty clever thieves to be able to steal entire houses.

Actually, it's much easier to steal a house than you think. You need some fake ID, then you impersonate the current owner, and sell to some chump. Or you impersonate the current owner, and get a new mortgage attached to the property, and take off with the cash.

In today's overheated real estate market, agents, lenders, mortgage brokers & banks all want to close the deal quickly, and they are being far less diligent than they should be.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[beckerist]

The best that could be accomplished is highly implausible. Knowing whether or not the rest of the items he sold were stolen would be impossible without someone else reporting "missing goods." There's no solid way of proving anything outside the fact that what was recovered was stolen. Anything else would be speculation and very far from grounds for contacting his buyers, let alone a warrant, even STILL letting alone the fact that a local police force has no jurisdiction outside it's own area.
In conclusion: if you are a good Samaritan and you know you purchased goods from someone convicted of selling stolen items, you should take the effort to verify the legitimacy of your purchase. In reality, this doesn't apply to anyone outside the directly affected (or more appropriately: directly caught.)

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[YrWrstNtmr]

I can get Microsoft Office for $20. I work for a very large group that uses Microsoft. In return for selling out to Microsoft, all the employees get the offer to buy a licensed copy of Office for $20.

I have that same deal at work. On the CD case, in big bold letters "Not for resale". So it doesn't matter how big the discount, it would be 'illegal' to resell it, at any price.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Vellmont]

I'd prefer they "waste" their time on their charter
The charter includes pissing away resources on recovering relatively inexpensive items for people where the thief has been caught and will easily be prosecuted? Most of the items I saw this guy sold were car GPS navigation systems, not the Hope diamond or priceless works of art.

rather than listen to my phone calls.

Actually I think that was the NSA.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's much easier to steal a house than you think. You need some fake ID, then you impersonate the current owner, and sell to some chump. Or you impersonate the current owner, and get a new mortgage attached to the property, and take off with the cash.

With all these amateur real estate flippers, there are lots of people holding five or six properties as investments and now they can't sell them because the market already peaked. So they sit empty and now sqatters are starting to become a problem.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[jamar0303]

Sounds interesting- what's market ouvert?

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[thetroll123]

It turns out the concept was finally removed from the law here in 1994 (just after my never-used-since law degree!). The basics are that a recognised outdoor market operating in daylight hours could confer title in stolen goods. There's a bit in Wikipedia here

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[bloobloo]

The thief generally prints off a fake V5 form. It's only a couple of pages.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

No, The persons that bought it paid the fair price for other used equipment. So paid in kind they would get to keep the merchandise and the previous owners would go after the Ebay seller, or the insurance company would. Do you frequently pull answers out of your... erm, out of thin air?

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

A number of locations with unusual overrides of common law and ordinary statute were established by royal decree prior to Anglo-Norman times.

Bermondsey's New Caledonian Market is an example of a such a location, and it was granted market ouvert rules, which allowed for the unfettered trade of goods between sunrise and sunset, which ultimately allowed for the instant transfer of title to goods no matter what their provenance.

Fences used these specific market ouvert rules (and a tiny handful of others) in the England as a positive defence against charges related to dealing in stolen goods until 1995, when the 1994 Sale of Goods (Amendment) Act came into force, abolishing essentially all of these loopholes. (At least one may have remained for high-value cultural artifacts, and this is being used in current litigation).

"Market ouvert" is a peculiarly English legal term; "marché ouvert" would be the proper French for "open market".

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Ced_Ex]

I can get Microsoft Office for $20. I work for a very large group that uses Microsoft. In return for selling out to Microsoft, all the employees get the offer to buy a licensed copy of Office for $20.
 
I have that same deal at work. On the CD case, in big bold letters "Not for resale". So it doesn't matter how big the discount, it would be 'illegal' to resell it, at any price. I suppose we could get around that "Not for resale" stipulation by just giving it away then? IANAL, but it sounds logical to me!

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[GWBasic]

I seriously doubt the police are going to bother with this, or even have the resources to do so. Most of these buyers aren't going to be from NYC, so there's a jurisdiction problem. Also who's to say EVERYTHING he sold is stolen? It probbably is, but that's not proof.

There's also no proof that the seller was the theif; he could have been running a pawn shop.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous McCartneyf]

Would you feel differently if they were all stolen PS3s sold to the unsuspecting? Or iPods?

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[sumdumass]

Most "recieving stolen property" laws have some inclusoin of knowing or not caring if it was stolen in the fisrt place. If i stole chewing gum from Kentucky and sold it to a store in ohio. Then then resold it to the comunity, the comunity wouldn't be in any trouble. Now the store I sold it too might be depending on how i contacted them and made the sale. If i was thier (and others as well) normal supplier for everything and this was just an opertunity i saw to make a buck, they wouldn't be in trouble either. If i pulled the manager inot the back alley and told them i have some stuff for sell at a cheap price, there is reason to belive i'm not on the up and up and they could be in trouble.

Now usualy when someone "inocently" recieves property that could be stolen, the rightfull owner needs to offer some restitution to recieve it back. Other wise your just shifting the victom from one person to another. In ohio and surounding states this is the case. I don't know why it would be much different in other areas.

The important part on this is that when you goto a normal place to buy things normaly offered to the normal public, you don't asume some risk based on asshats who what to take advantage of you. The FBI, shouldn't get involved unless it is of a certain amount. However, the shipping could provide other charges if they used the US postoffice or some shipping company operating under thier charter. Then It would likley be the US treasury department (probably the secrete service) getting involved wich has more power and people then the FBI.

But to the question of pissing money away on investigating reletivly cheap property that was stolen? I doubt any efforts will be made because there isn't too much of a reason to belive the people buying the items knew they were stolen. If anything, money would be waisted in investigating this to cause as much potential jail time as possible so to set an example to other thinking it might be a quick buck.

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI

I can tell you that eBay cooperates fully with Law Enforcement. We even give them special resources to contact us. See here if you're Law enforcement: http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/law_enforceme nt.html

This type of use of eBay hurts everyone in our community, and we want them stopped!

Disclaimer: Yes, I do work for eBay!

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[pakar]

ehm... maybe time to stop reselling items you dont own? :)

Re:What happens to the buyers?

[UbuntuDupe]

I don't think it's that easy to come up with the fake ID, but more importantly, I'm not sure how successful this is in stealing a house. Once the original owner gets back, title reverts to them. And the buyer gets their money back. Why? Well, remember those irritating closing costs? It turns out not all of them are simply novel excuses to make the bank money. One item is title insurance, which insures the buyer against precisely this -- the title not being legitimately transfered to them.

(On a side note, I'm always irritated about how much ID verification I have to give to make transactions, only to find out con artists are successful because those standards aren't applied to them.)

Dilemma

[biocute]

Would you rather be able to 'buy back' a hard-to-find stolen part from eBay, or have to either source this part from a supplier (more expensively) or abandon the device altogether?

Re:Dilemma

[Duhavid]

Are you saying that someone that provably stole something
should be left alone to continue because the person stolen
from *might* be able to buy the item back?

Re:Dilemma

[topham]

I'd rather find out who your new roommate is and toss him a few bucks to give you the jailhouse welcome.

Re:Dilemma

[biocute]

The article sounds like a victory, but theft doesn't stop because stolen goods stop showing up on eBay.

By publicly announcing such arrest, we might have just lost a venue to trace these crooks.

Re:Dilemma

[Cylix]

If the person who lost it has already replaced.... sure!

My one few incident involved a fairly expensive dvcam deck. The authorities were going through someones history and asking for serial numbers to check against. Sure enough, our new found joy was on the list of not so good news.

In this incident, the company simply sent us a refund check for the item in question and were prosecuting the individual for the lost funds.

I'm going to guess the deck was used as evidence as we had sent it off to the authorities.

Re:Dilemma

[Duhavid]

Yeah, I know that. There was theft before the internet.

It sounded like you were arguing against going after the
seller because the person stolen from might be able to
get the item back. Getting the item back is fine, but
theft will surely not go away if you continue to give them
a financial incentive to steal.

I agree that making a news item out of this seems less than
wise, but then again, denying thieves a venue for the sale
of stolen goods might not be so bad after all. Heck, make
it a buyer reported system for online sales, automatic
checking against stolen goods lists from the police. There
are privacy issues there, maybe, but maybe it would work.
Then theives might have a harder time selling.

Re:Dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to be nit-picky, but you really don't need to manually insert line returns (hitting enter) every few words. Lines are automatically wrapped, and your reply is extremely irritating to read on a reasonably-sized display, where all the other posts spread nicely across the scren and yours just forms this narrow little column that makes the page much longer.

Re:Dilemma

[Binary Boy]

You assume such criminals are 1) highly organized and 2) intelligent. The reality is thieves are often opportunists who get away with their crimes pretty easily because of the sheer size of the world we live in. They will keep using eBay as their fence as long as it remains one of the easiest ways for all kinds of sellers - legit and otherwise - to connect with purchasers in a pseudonymous way.

I had a laptop stolen in transit back to Apple; it just disappeared before making it's way onto the DHL truck. I eventually got a free, fully loaded, much upgraded replacement, and as I was shipping the machine I had already dumped all personal data from it. A few months later I got a mysterious call from someone asking for my password as the machine he bought from me was prompting him for it... wow! I called Apple, and local law enforcement (in LA where I live as well as Arizona where the call came from) and got no interest in helping! So one followup call led me to the eBay ID of the seller, which lead me eventually to the unpurged sales page on eBay - where the laptop was featured in multiple pictures, and was verifiably mine because of the desktop image still showing (not only did I shoot the image, my login - a play on my fullname - was watermarked in the bottom corner!). Anyway, long story short, eBay wouldn't help, so I ended up tracking the seller down through a lot of Googling and a bit of good fortune. I ended up with a dossier on the seller, including pictures of him, his girlfriend, his car, his employer - the shipping drop where the whole thing started! - and tons of other data. I got his AOL screenname and still have him on my Buddy List to this day. I had a letter from the buyer - a scared-to-death kid in the military, afraid of getting in trouble - as well as the transaction records, and a bullet-proof sequence of evidence connecting him to the theft and the sale. Yet after all of that, law enforcement still wasn't interested! Oh, and the kid had clearly been doing this for a while - he had 200+ sales on eBay, most of which consisted of brand new phones and laptops, and had only just turned 18!

Color me surprised when a full year after the theft the LAPD finally calls... no idea if they'll ever do anything about it. It's not my laptop anymore - I signed away my rights to it when I got the replacement, so it's Apple's loss at this point - but it still bugs me that they were so willing to let him slide. Even when I spoke to the detective he indicated it probably wouldn't go any further, even though the kid was still working at the same shop, and still running his scam on eBay.

Re:Dilemma

[Dark_Gravity]

Would you rather be able to 'buy back' a hard-to-find stolen part from eBay, or have to either source this part from a supplier (more expensively) or abandon the device altogether?

Would you rather be beaten with a nickel chain or a lead pipe?

No, really: "FUCK YOU," you thief apologist!

Scarcity is no free-pass to a black market of fenced stolen goods.

Re:Dilemma

[slooshdoto]

Or secret option C: steal it back from CowboyNeal.

Re:Dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to be nit-picky, but you really don't need to manually insert line returns (hitting enter) every few words. Lines are automatically wrapped, and your reply is extremely irritating to read on a reasonably-sized display, where all the other posts spread nicely across the screen and yours just forms this narrow little column that makes the page much longer.

irony

[silverkniveshotmail.]

On his most recent sale the GPS unit has an anti-theft feature. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =320065453054

Note to crooks...

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Please do post serial numbers. Please also post name/address of previous owner so we can verify that the item is in a good state of repair. Please also get a sworn statement from a police officer that the facts have been verified and are correct.

note to cyber-criminals: don't post those

[iminplaya]

Hmmm...Aiding and abetting are we? :-)

Re:note to cyber-criminals: don't post those

[biocute]

Please enlighten me what good it is to post serial numbers? Are buyers checking something based on the SN?

Couldn't crooks just change the last digit, so the stolen item should still appear to be similar if it's for technical reasons.

Re:note to cyber-criminals: don't post those

[Harmonious Botch]

".Aiding and abetting are we? "

Nope. Aiding and abetting are done before or during the alleged crime, not afterwards. As no criminal has yet claimed that Mr. Dawson helped him, he's currently in the clear.

Nice to know that we don't have crooks running the joint.

Re:note to cyber-criminals: don't post those

[Kadin2048]

There are lots of reasons why you'd want at least partial serial numbers; wireless cards and routers are two examples. I'd never buy one at least I knew the H/W revision or had the serial number to determine it by. There are totally different devices sold under the same 'model' number; unless you have the version or serial (which is sometimes the only / easiest way to determine hardware version), you don't know what you're buying.

In general you don't need to know the whole serial, only part of it, but I don't think there's any reason for an honest person to care. If someone was refusing to disclose the serial number, I'd start to wonder what was up. That would definitely set off my "hot goods" alarm. That's sorta like picking up an item in a store and finding out that it has the SKU or serial number removed from the packaging.

Re:note to cyber-criminals: don't post those

[Anonymous Coward]

".Aiding and abetting are we? "

"Nope. Aiding and abetting are done before or during the alleged crime, not afterwards."

And a note to future criminals to (not) do something is not, at least, "aiding" ?

The "abedding" can be disputed, as the advice seemes not to bring the advisor any gain.

Um...

[Kalriath]

at least two of the laptops were stamped 'Property of St. John's University.'
You'd have to be some kind of moron to actually leave behind this type of marker before selling it. I mean, it's a great idea to check your local auction site and all that, but most thieves aren't going to be moronic enough to leave behind identifying marks. Although I can just imagine the Q&A...

Q: What is the serial number on this device?
A: 17774677883

Q: Would it be possible to view before buying?
A: ...

Re:Um...

[Propaganda13]

Maybe it was this auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =320060047493

Love this one
  Q: Does this come with the operating manual?
  A: NO MANUAL AND ORIGINAL RETAIL BOX IS MISSING

from http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =320064863803

Re:Um...

[GauteL]

"A: NO MANUAL AND ORIGINAL RETAIL BOX IS MISSING"

So? If I were to keep all the retail boxes for all the stuff I've bought over the years I'd have no room to live. Also, manuals are easily lost. This just does not indicate anything.

Re:Um...

[Propaganda13]

No, a missing original retail box and manual is nothing by itself. It's funny because the guy is being charged with criminal possession of stolen property.

Sometimes you have to look at the whole picture or how additional facts can show things in a new light.
Hunting accidents aren't funny, but apparently a lot of people thought if the Vice President was involved then it's funny.
Noisy neighbors can be a normal thing. Finding out that your neighbor was Jeffrey Dahmer sheds a new light on the noises.

Note to Slashdot editors:

[iminplaya]

Don't make any more difficult to get our shit back...

Shill bidding

[HerrEkberg]

From TFA:

"Unbelievable as it seems, he was in the bidding to buy his own stolen GPS,'' Nassau County District Attorney Kathleen Rice said. From ebay.com:

Shill bidding is when a seller - or someone associated with a seller - bids on that seller's own item. These bids artificially increase the price or desirability of the item, and damage buyers' faith in the integrity and fairness of the marketplace. Shill Bidding is not allowed on eBay.

Re:Shill bidding

[Bieeanda]

The context isn't perfectly clear, but I think the article suggests that the bidder mentioned was the one who had the item stolen, not the thief.

Re:Shill bidding

[HerrEkberg]

It was a joke (and apparently a bad one).

Re:Shill bidding

[AK Marc]

I laughed. The other guy just didn't get it.

Re:Shill bidding

[Kalriath]

Nor did the guy who modded it "Troll" apparently.

Re:Shill bidding

[AK Marc]

One man's +5 funny is another man's -1 troll.

Re:Shill bidding

[Lissajous]

Unfortunately the +5 funny gains zero karma, the -1 troll loses a point.
Go figure.

LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

The anti-theft feature obviously leaves much to be desired.

Idiots

[PinkyGigglebrain]

I've always said that the prisons are full of stupid criminals. And no, I am not counting those who are wrongfully convicted or getting unfairly prosicuted. Only the ones who did a crime and then did something that made it easy to catch them, like putting stuff up on eBay, looking right at the camera, or sending a letter to the FBI taunting them about how they will never catch you, only to have them pull DNA from the back of the stamp linking you to more crimes you didn't mention and giving them a starting point to search thanks to the postmark.

Re:Idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

We had a case like that here. Several kids broke into the High School, and then tried to sell the computers on eBay.

The cops caught them in record time. Police -1, Crooks - 0.

Re:Idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it was Ambrose Bierce who said that the reasons prison populations have so many morons is that morons are so stupid that even a detective can catch them.

Re:Idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

My friend who is a relatively intelligent guy but went kinda...um....crazy for a while and ended up in prison had a few things to say about the prison population. Most cutting was the average intelligence of the prison population proves police must be corrupt if they find it difficult to catch them.

Re:Idiots

[PinkyGigglebrain]

Validates my point, Your friend was not in full possesion of his faculties at the time he commited the offense(s?).

As to the status of the police, also correct to a degree, you have to take into account that the police are bound not just by the laws that you and I are but by a second set that governs, and restricts, their conduct to the point that even though they may KNOW that someone is guilty, even to where they have evidence of someones guilt, unless it was collected in accordence with the laws protecting a citizens civil rights or is from a source that would be credible to a jury its useless. I've know several cases where the police had the person dead to rights, but they couldn't hold them due to some technicality or flaw in the way the evidence was collected, so they walked. The only thing that kept me from staying really pissed is the fact that the laws that let them walk are the same laws that would also let me walk if someone wanted to plant evidence against me.

The Law is a double edged sword, one side cuts the wicked, the other defends the inocent. At least that how it is supposed to work, its still evolving.

Re:Idiots

[fistfullast33l]

And no, I am not counting those who are wrongfully convicted or getting unfairly prosicuted.

But everyone in prison is either innocent or railroaded!

Re:Idiots

[KlomDark]

What, subtract a point for each win? That sounds like a strange game.

Re:Idiots

[popra]

you mean like like this guy? http://vlabs.vidavee.com/free4all/index.php?p=show &id=1688

There's a third path.

[Kadin2048]

Well, there's another option; you notify the police, and then go through with the sale, in hopes of getting some information that would let the authorities catch the crook. In the worst case, you've bought back your part, and in the best case you'll get your part, plus restitution, plus you'll have sweet, sweet revenge.

A friend of mine got his cellphone and wallet stolen when his car was burglarized, and by monitoring the numbers that the thief called from it, and then calling up the various numbers and pretending to be different people (which is an amusing social engineering story in itself), got the name and home phone number of the criminal. The police, who weren't very much help otherwise, went out and picked the guy up (he was apparently well known to them). My friend got his phone back, plus restitution for the money in his wallet. If he had just waited for the police to do something, he would have been out a phone and a substantial amount of cash.

Sometimes you just need to do some detective work yourself.

Re:There's a third path.

[timmarhy]

i like it, only he should have paid some bikers $200 to fuck him up a bit before sending the cops. $200 would be worth the entertainment to me to see some scum beaten to a pulp. the law simply doesn't work anymore, you have to take it into your own hands to get results. all 4 units in my block got burgled last year and the scumbag that did it only got 100 hours community service. likewise a mate of mine got jumped by 5 cowards attacking 1 person from behind, 80 hours community service. take it from me people, the legal system doesn't think your important enough to give you justicse.

Re:There's a third path.

[theLOUDroom]

My favorite story like this is a guy who got his car stolen.

He actually found witnesses, canvassed the neighborhood, followed a suspect, snuck onto their property, found his car, staked out the place and called the cops. This guy was tenacious.

Re:There's a third path.

[slashtoe]

Your friend is very clever to find and pursue this third path of which you speak, but dang what a dope for leaving his wallet and his phone in his car! Okay the phone maybe but his WALLET??

Re:There's a third path.

[Stiletto]

Be careful. As someone pointed out upthread, the police are NOT your friend. Their job is NOT to help you, but to put you in jail. For my own safety, I would be very hesitant to call the police for anything but a major crime, one that presents them a clear opportunity to put someone ELSE in jail.

Re:There's a third path.

[JCota]

I'm a little concerned about that last statement.

Be careful. As someone pointed out upthread, the police are NOT your friend. Their job is NOT to help you, but to put you in jail. For my own safety, I would be very hesitant to call the police for anything but a major crime, one that presents them a clear opportunity to put someone ELSE in jail.

And a little pissed off about it. I am entering the police academy to become a future police officer, and I get a stupid ass moron insulting people that are willing to place their lives on the line to protect their sorry asses, their right to say what ever they want, and allow them to keep, or retrieve their belongings.

F%$& you man

Ahhh

[umbrellasd]

This is one of those rare situations where the general stupidity of human beings is reassuring.

Happened recently with a snowboard

[sk8king]

...here in Ontario. A person [girl I think] had a snowboard stolen from the hill. Went on ebay to find a replacement and found her own, just like the GPS story.

Pwn Shop

[Nerdfest]

is how EBay should be known. Police in Canada are aware of this happening as well. A guy I work with found most of the stuff that was stolen when his house was broken into on EBay. He actually purchased a couple of items to get the sellers details, and advised the police. The police didn't actually even arrest the guy right away, but rather watched him for a few days and caught him red-handed breaking into another place.

So basically, in addition to checking pawn shops yourself after a break-in, check EBay (assuming your only computer wasn't stolen).

Re:Pwn Shop

[aussie_a]

check EBay (assuming your only computer wasn't stolen). HA! That'd be good. Using the person's stolen computer to sell the other stolen goods.

Re:Pwn Shop

[stile99]

I'm trying to figure out if that subject is a typo, or amazingly insightful...

"Robbed"?

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

In kdawsoviet Slashdot, robbery, theft, and copyright infringement mean the same thing... uh... to YOU.

I'm sorry.

I'm shocked!

[textstring]

To find out people sell stolen things on ebay! *gasp*

Want to be robbed soon?

[Max Littlemore]

I recently bid on an item that made me wonder.

It was only after I bid that I noticed the "No pick-up, postage only" clause in the description. It made me wonder why a seller that was apparently less than 10 km away wasn't prepared to let me know what they look like or where they are, yet they wanted my address.

Then I realised the perfect scam:

1. Sell an item on ebay (possibly stolen).
2. Sell the item again, insisting on postage.
3. Hand deliver it, collect the $30 and getting a great chance to scope the house for a future break in.
4. Steal the item from the buyer.
5. goto 1

Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but I was really happy when I lost the bid...

It's interesting to note how easy an anonymous place for selling goods makes criminal activity and refreshing to hear of some crooks being cought out.

Re:Want to be robbed soon?

[mosch]

It was only after I bid that I noticed the "No pick-up, postage only" clause in the description. It made me wonder why a seller that was apparently less than 10 km away wasn't prepared to let me know what they look like or where they are, yet they wanted my address.

I can think of a few possibilities:

1) Seller cares about his time, and doesn't feel like trying to match schedules with random strangers who may or may not be timely.

2) Seller cares about his safety and privacy, and doesn't want some stranger scoping out his place to rob it.

3) Seller wants to charge $30 for shipping when item costs $20 to ship, netting an extra $10.

4) Seller is afraid that buyer might be a paranoid slashtastic moron, who thinks that every single fucking thing in life is a trap.

I'm not a crook, but there isn't a chance in hell I would agree to in-person pickups.

Re:Want to be robbed soon?

[Kreigaffe]

"4) Seller is afraid that buyer might be a paranoid slashtastic moron, who thinks that every single fucking thing in life is a trap." ...

ITSATRAP!

Re:Want to be robbed soon?

[Grishnakh]

I've done in-person pickups about four times. As rare as they happen, I think it's pretty silly to rule them out over fear and paranoia.

One pickup I did, the guy met me in the parking lot of my (large) workplace. Nice neutral location. Two more were at businesses owned by the sellers. The last one was at a guy's house. I've done a fair amount of buying and selling on ebay (feedback score of 232, total positive feedbacks 312), and I live in a city of 4 million people, and those are the only local pickups I can recall (and one of those wasn't even on ebay, it was on an enthusiast forum). It's just not very often both people live in the same area, and many times the buyers don't want to even bother. But for large or heavy items, allowing local pickup can save a ton on shipping costs. And for some items, sellers refuse to ship because it's too much trouble to deal with freight.

As for sellers fitting into #3, I try to avoid them whenever possible. Gouging on shipping is unethical and against ebay rules (even though they don't enforce that one whatsoever). Unfortunately, sometimes that's the only way to get a certain obscure item.

Re:Want to be robbed soon?

[wombert]

5) Seller has been burned by negative feedback for "item never received" (or is just paranoid) and wants to ship with tracking to prove the item got sent.

Re:Want to be robbed soon?

[CmdrGravy]

I've met up with people in Service Stations etc and its always been fine. I agree I'm not so sure I'd like random people turning up at my house though.

Re:Want to be robbed soon?

[smoker2]

Good job the guy who bought my motorcycle didn't think like you then ! Shipping a 600kg bike 300 miles would have cost more than the sale price.

Re:Want to be robbed soon?

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I know, tracking doesn't prove that a specific item got sent, it proves that a package (containing whatever) was sent. It might work if the receiver could open the package and refuse delivery while the delivery guy was waiting, but no one does that, do they?

Re:Want to be robbed soon?

[jamar0303]

I'd never trust shipping on eBay any other way than paying when the product actually gets to me. That's why I'm a fan of the Chinese eBay system.

1. Look for auction. On the Chinese site, a seller's contact info is usually listed- either a telephone number or address.
2. Go to the address in question or telephone the seller. This is to make sure that the seller is legit. Usually, if an address is listed, it's a store and I will buy directly from them. Only once it turned out that someone was running a mini-store out of his apartment, and the guard at the apartment complex asked if I was getting accessories for my phone when I asked him about that apartment.
3. Make the purchase. It's nice to be able to actually meet the person selling the item- I can inspect it before purchase to make sure that everything's OK. I don't have an eBay account, and I'm afraid of using Paypal. Of course, for those sellers that don't use Paypal, wire transfer is the standard method of payment, and I'm naturally scared of doing that.
I need to be able to do an inspection of an item that I'm buying before I purchase it. If a store won't do that, then I just go to the local "flea market" for stuff. However, a lot of the stuff is stolen. I went through my local cellphone market- found a phone that I dropped on a taxi some months ago. I couldn't do anything about it because there was no way to officially tell that it was mine (the red Vodafone logo came off, same scratches, same orange outer casing that I imported) because the IMEI on the box doesn't match the IMEI under the battery of the phone when I bought it. And the IMEI under the battery didn't match the IMEI that was displayed by pressing *#06# which was strange when I bought it but I didn't give it a second thought because I didn't care. I sometimes buy some phones just for fun ($7 apiece for some Japanese phones) to see what some people's personal lives are like. One CDMA phone without the ESN on the back (just a little sticker with the production date on it) had some porn on it- I will never look at Japanese people the same way again.

Here is another one from last weekend

[the_other_one]

EBay ad leads police to stolen snowboard

Re:Here is another one from last weekend

[Anonymous Coward]

Happened to me:
http://www.memecode.com/news.php?id=399&comments=1

The Seattle Police were not as curious

[newscloud]

When my house was robbed, I found my $2,000 LCD monitor on ebay complete with picture of serial number on the back which matched (except for one number slightly too fuzzy to verify a match). This was the week after the robbery. When I called the detective assigned to my case, he did nothing with the information. He said finding my monitor in the hands of a fence would do nothing to catch the people who robbed me. Yeah, but investigating the case might have helped... I learned from this experience that the insurance industry subsidizes the majority of property crime in this country because we're certainly not funding the police well enough to do much about it.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Anonymous Coward]

... we're certainly not funding the police well enough to do much about it.

Their funding is for the War on Drugs, thought crimes (free speech zones? wtf), Checkpoint Charlies, etc.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[LoRdTAW]

Thats exactly what happened to me. The police don't really care. Just last week on jan 2nd someone broke into my car by my friends house. It was because I had forgot my ipod in the center console in plain sight. The thief also helped himself to my stereo too, thankfully I bought it used from a friend for 50 bucks so no real loss. But now I have to replace my $250 ipod, new radio(haven't bought it yet) and my window cost me $150 to fix. The cops answer? Go report it to insurance and have them pay for it. They didn't even bother to lift prints as they said they didn't have a print kit. I understand they cant do everything but it is annoying.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[b0s0z0ku]

When my house was robbed, I found my $2,000 LCD monitor on ebay complete with picture of serial number on the back which matched (except for one number slightly too fuzzy to verify a match). This was the week after the robbery.

Are you in a carry-legal state? Offer to pick it up and confront him with the facts. Maybe bring a couple of big angry friends along. If he gets scared and gives it to you, good. Make sure to show it to the cops so they can match prints to your house. If he tries something, defend yourself. If I were on a jury, I'd most certainly acquit or vote for a verdict of not guilty by self defense...

-b.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Dark_Gravity]

The police don't really care.

True dat. Fuck tha police.

While I still endorse reporting crimes for statistical purposes, remember the police are not there for you, and they sure as hell don't give a flying fuck about you or your property. Just like you, they care about not getting killed.

That said, do police get into the path of danger at times in their chosen occupation? Hell yes!
So while you should pay them due respect, don't ever mistakenly think their job is about you.

It's a shame that our (American) law enforcement priorities are so defective that consensual criminals can do more time than habitual victimizers.
I am not a "Ten Commandments" kind of guy, but what ever happened to "Love Thy Neighbor"?

Peace out & fuck a burglar!

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Grishnakh]

If he tries something, defend yourself. If I were on a jury, I'd most certainly acquit or vote for a verdict of not guilty by self defense...

I'm all for vigilante justice, but unfortunately, I believe the reality is that in a situation like this, a jury is much more likely to convict because this guy scared or hurt the "poor" burglar. Juries in this country are always filled with losers and morons who side with criminals.

Here in Arizona, one of the most gun-friendly (and weapon-friendly: we can carry switchblades legally) states, we had an incident recently where a retired schoolteacher was hiking in the forest and was attacked by some dogs. He took out his 10mm and fired into the ground, scaring them off, but then the crazy owner ran for him to attack him (apparently ignoring the fact that the guy was armed), so the guy shot him rather than be hurt or killed by the larger and much younger man. During the trial, it came out that the dog-owner was mentally unstable, lived in his car in the woods, had a huge anger management problem, etc., but all that testimony was disallowed. The older man (60+) was convicted and sentenced to 10 years. One interesting point made by the prosecutor was that the guy was using hollow-point "killer" rounds in his 10mm, and also that his gun was a 10mm which is quite powerful. This apparently had the effect of turning many of the stupid jurors' opinions against him. But any moron knows that if you're going to defend yourself, you want hollow-point bullets (after all, that's what police use), and 10mm guns are sometimes used by police as well. Not to mention, the guy was carrying this gun to protect himself from mountain lions and bears which are common in that area, not from crazy dog owners, and with bears and the like, bigger is better. Anyway, my point after all this rambling is that even here in a very pro-gun "red" state, and in one of the smaller towns (not more liberal Tucson or Phoenix), the jury was full of the same "poor criminal" mentality jurors that you'd expect in Massachusetts.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[aelfwyne]

Sounds like a case of BLS - Bad Lawyer Syndrome.... if the case really is as simple as you portray here.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Anonymous Coward]

The local police department here 50+ mobile tax assessors and 1, that's right, ONE criminal investigator. His primary job is filing away the criminal reports filed with the police department. How often do you think a crime gets solved here? The tax assesors might take a report but don't do any investigating and ask no questions that might be related to solving a crime when they take the report.

Several years ago one of the sargeants on the force started a community service thing where he used people on probation to act as things like crossing guards etc.. An outside police department discovered they running a burgarly service on the side when they caught them selling stolen goods at auctions in the next state over. They were transporting them in a van owned by the sargeant. Makes you really want to call the police before you leave on your next vacation and ask them to watch the place don't it?

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Splab]

And this is why the rest of the world finds the Americans insane. You are advocating killing someone over $2000, what the fuck is wrong with you????

If the cops haven't got the time to deal with it go talk to your local government, if they won't deal with it talk to the newspapers.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Grishnakh]

Sounds like a case of BLS - Bad Lawyer Syndrome.... if the case really is as simple as you portray here.

Google for it; there's a bunch of articles about it. The case provoked our legislature to pass a "Castle doctrine" law.

As for a bad lawyer, maybe, but it didn't sound like it. The lawyer was NRA-affiliated I believe. It really sounded like BJS and BJS2: Bad Judge Syndrome (disallowing testimony about the character of the deceased) and Bad Jury Syndrome (believing the total idiocy spouted by the prosecutor).

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Anonymous Coward]

The Seattle police have better things to do with their time ... like tear-gassing protesters.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[24-bit Voxel]

I wrote a nice scathing reply to your post, however my verification word was "gentler" so I offer this instead.

BOO!

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Anonymous Coward]

The great American approach to life is that if someone or something gets in your way you kill it.

Once it's dead you can say:

" the bear came at me in a ferocious manner..."
" the crazy (unarmed?) owner ran at me to attack me..."
" Saddam Hussein was going to attack America with nuclear weapons...."

and no one left alive has any interest in proving it not to be true.

As a point of interest, why are Americans surprised that large (and growing) sections of the world now hate them so much?

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[hemorex]

Hmm! Perhaps the police would have been more interested in your vehicle had it been moving a few miles per hour over the speed limit. (Never ceases to amaze me.)

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[kalirion]

define "few". I don't know anyone who's been ticketed for going 6 or less miles over the speed limit.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[b0s0z0ku]

You are advocating killing someone over $2000, what the fuck is wrong with you????

Nope. I'm advocating confronting the scum who stole the $2000 object and retaking the object without payment. Said scum is after all a criminal. If said scum threatens the original poster's life, he has a right to defend himself. Whether that's by killing the person or shooting out his kneecaps is of course a choice.

-b.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple could almost put an end to the secondary stolen market by activately monitoring who registers their product serial numbers. I've registered both my iPod and MacBookPro. I would imagine that if they were stolen and sold to an unsuspecting buyer he/she would try and register them as well. I'm not sure what Apple does if they notice the registration email changes ... anything?

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Anonymous Coward]

Although this sounds like a pretty horrible miscarriage of justice, just imagine if this guy hadn't been carrying a gun...

First of all, he may or may not have had to fight of the dogs. They probably wouldn't have bit him, the owner was apparently "Right There". It's extremely rare that dogs really injure a grown person--I'm sure there are examples, but not many.

Secondly the owner may or may not have attacked him. Chances are he'd have been busy rounding up the dogs and trying to keep them under control.

There's very little chance that anyone would have been seriously hurt without the presence of the gun.

On top of that, the "victim" (according to your description) was not really in control of himself--it sounds like he had very little control of the situation, if he did he probably wouldn't have lunged at a person with a gun.

Wow--a lot of stuff happens because of one persons decision to carry a gun. Perhaps people in Arizona aren't capable of making that decision and shouldn't have such liberal gun laws.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[poot_rootbeer]

It costs the police department money to dust for fingerprints, and subsequently run them against a database. Most likely more than the $450 value of the property that was stolen from you and damaged.

Even if good fingerprints were found and matched to someone, that doesn't go very far towards proving guilt. Maybe somebody rested their hand on your car door during a jog down your street.

I can't say I blame them for not assigning their top CSI experts to the case. And I say that as someone whose car has been broken into more than once and was disappointed by how little the police seemed to do about it.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Rich0]

It is all about escalation and quality of life. When I was in school somebody spray-painted the outside wall of the school. The next morning the principal delivered a long sermon, and within about 24 hours the pain was sandblasted off - probably at a cost of $10k or more. However, the move was effective - no more sparypainting for as long as I was there. If the paint were left up I'm sure somebody would have added to it within a week. Sure, the paint doesn't cost anything, but it makes th school look like a ghetto and probably would tend to result in the students acting more like they lived in one.

If somebody steals a $250 stereo the police should spend $40k tracking the guy down. Then fine and/or imprison the criminal for the full cost of the investigation - if they're underage put a lean on the parent's house. A town with a theft problem probably has only 10 thieves in it, and if you got rid of them the quality of life would probably skyrocket. A few thieves go a long way, and inspire the next generation to do the same.

And today's thief is tomorrow's mugger or murderer. Throw the book at them before somebody gets killed or hurt.

This whole philosophy is what made Guiliani popular in NYC - he cleaned the place up by spending money on petty crimes, and got rid of many of the big expensive crimes in the process.

Now, the war on drugs is a different story...

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Rich0]

Ok, but what if the owner wasn't right there?

Or what if the guy was attacked by a mountain lion?

Or what if the guy hit a dog with a branch to fend it off and the owner went nuts and attacked him without a gun? He may have gotten 10 years but at least he is alive..

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Grishnakh]

What kind of stupid reply is this?

" the bear came at me in a ferocious manner..."

I guess you've never been around a bear. They are ferocious, and they do attack people. Must be nice living in a country where you've killed off all the large animals and the only things left are small birds and squirrels. Oh yeah, and rats, which are great for spreading disease when you're too stupid to leave the cats alone because they're associated with witchcraft. Nice job there.

" the crazy (unarmed?) owner ran at me to attack me..."

So you don't think people should defend themselves? Great idea. Let the large, young, mentally unstable man attack the small, old man and see if he survives, especially after he gets the gun away from him. You sound like you live in England; I hear you have a terrific street crime problem over there. Ever think that this idea of not bothering to defend yourself might have something to do with that?

" Saddam Hussein was going to attack America with nuclear weapons...."

Great way to compare things that aren't even remotely related.

and no one left alive has any interest in proving it not to be true.

Yeah, whatever. Dead people (even criminals) have families too, in case you didn't realize. And crime scenes always have evidence.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[stile99]

I think this is firmly in the "Weird News that is no longer considered weird because it is now reported too frequently" category.

A few years ago I was relieved of the burden of ownership of quite a large amount of property. Alas, I was not seeking said relief, so I summoned the city's finest (oh man, is that a friggin' joke). The fact that the storage unit broken into was right behind the police station really should have given me a clue as to what would happen next. A duly appointed officer arrived and proceeded to tell me that they really had no hope of catching the guy or retrieving my stuff, so they had no intention to even try.

Well duh. Talk about self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're not going to put down that donut and get off your fat arse, then yeah...not finding the guy is a pretty safe bet, I'd say.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Grishnakh]

Although this sounds like a pretty horrible miscarriage of justice, just imagine if this guy hadn't been carrying a gun...

Yep, he'd probably be seriously wounded.

First of all, he may or may not have had to fight of the dogs. They probably wouldn't have bit him, the owner was apparently "Right There". It's extremely rare that dogs really injure a grown person--I'm sure there are examples, but not many.

Wrong. It happens all the time with large dogs: they attack adults and kids. They frequently kill kids, and sometimes adults. The owner was "right there", but he wasn't doing anything about the dogs even though the hiker was yelling at him.

Secondly the owner may or may not have attacked him. Chances are he'd have been busy rounding up the dogs and trying to keep them under control.

Maybe, maybe not. But you have to wonder about the mental state of someone who would attack a man wielding a gun. I don't think this guy was all there.

There's very little chance that anyone would have been seriously hurt without the presence of the gun.

No, there's a very good chance the hiker would have been injured by the dogs. And even if the guy and dogs weren't there at all, he could also be hurt or killed by other large animals (bears, mountain lions), which is why it's prudent to carry a gun when you're hiking in areas like that.

On top of that, the "victim" (according to your description) was not really in control of himself--it sounds like he had very little control of the situation, if he did he probably wouldn't have lunged at a person with a gun.

Here you go feeling sorry for the criminal. Why should I feel sorry for someone stupid enough to lunge at a guy with a gun? He should get a Darwin Award.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[freeze128]

I'm sure you could find a print kit on ebay. That way, if it ever happens again, you'll be prepared.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[spir0]

I'm all for vigilante justice, but unfortunately, I believe the reality is that in a situation like this, a jury is much more likely to convict because this guy scared or hurt the "poor" burglar. Juries in this country are always filled with losers and morons who side with criminals.

No, I think juries are filled with politically correct losers and morons who unconditionally feel sorry for victims. They think that all human life is sacred. That's how rapists and pedophiles walk free, or get released back into public after jail time. Stupid PC wankers. People should just get hard. Criminals don't deserve the same air as humans. That and I believe that public hangings and beheadings would do wonders for our economies and overpopulation problems.

Computers are the best way to catch people. On eBay for thieves, and in Germany, they're scouring credit card transactions for pedophiles. It's brilliant. We don't even need those stupid juries. Just judges who look at evidence and send people to the gallows. And aren't allowed liquid lunches.

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Anonymous Coward]

The person who was killed was in no way criminal. Does describing him that way make it better.

The lack of some people to empathize is really frightening.

It might be a question of judgment--maybe I over-empathize, maybe you under, ... except for one thing...

I've repeatedly, CONSISTENTLY, seen people change their hard-line views when it's a family member who was shot/hurt/killed by dogs/raped/whatever. I've NEVER seen someone who tends to empathize with others change.

The guy was not in great shape. He may have lunged at the man with the gun, may have hurt him. Still doesn't excuse murder. There was certainly another solution that didn't involve murder--such as running away.

I understand the plight of the teacher as well, but the fact that he was willing to take the responsibility for another person's life by carrying a gun and then use it on another person kinda explains his point of view.

On top of that, we only have the gun-owners description of events to go on. There was probably an argument, probably a dozen ways to change the outcome that did not involve taking the life of another person.

Of course, you won't understand it until it's your impaired son or daughter that gets shot, but then it's a little late.

To me, the lack of empathy you show is one of the most destructive forces in the human race right now. It's terrifying, and whenever I hear of some hard-ass changing their mind because it suddenly effects their family, I want to puke.

A good question to ask yourself? If your challenged but strong brother or son were to attack you with intent to harm you, would you feel just as certain about defending yourself from them with a gun as a first choice?

My guess is your first thought is "Sure" because you actually don't have the ability to empathize even with yourself--to imagine how you would feel. Did you even TRY? How your wife would treat you? How your father would feel about you killing his mentally challenged son?

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Anonymous Coward]

What an outrageous position to take, almost trolling.

Sure pal, you are all for capital punishment. Like Singapore or Saudi Arabia, right?

I'm glad that normal people---most people---don't agree with you. Otherwise the government would have carte blanche, killing citizens at will. No jury trial either? Leave us out of your fascist world!

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Grishnakh]

I've repeatedly, CONSISTENTLY, seen people change their hard-line views when it's a family member who was shot/hurt/killed by dogs/raped/whatever. I've NEVER seen someone who tends to empathize with others change.

Huh? What would your view be if the hiker had been killed by the crazy man?

The guy was not in great shape. He may have lunged at the man with the gun, may have hurt him. Still doesn't excuse murder. There was certainly another solution that didn't involve murder--such as running away.

It's not murder, nitwit. It's self-defense. If someone is attacking you, you have a natural right to defend yourself. And you really think a 60-year-old can outrun a younger man? Besides, we have the Castle Doctrine here: we have a right to stand our ground, and have NO responsibility to leave.

I understand the plight of the teacher as well, but the fact that he was willing to take the responsibility for another person's life by carrying a gun and then use it on another person kinda explains his point of view.

So just because he had a gun, you think it's wrong? Would it have been OK if the teacher used a baseball bat to defend himself instead?

On top of that, we only have the gun-owners description of events to go on. There was probably an argument, probably a dozen ways to change the outcome that did not involve taking the life of another person.

There you go again, feeling sorry for the attacker. Life is not precious; it's the responsibility of the one who owns the life. If you're stupid enough to attack someone with a gun, you don't deserve empathy when you die, you deserve a Darwin Award.

Of course, you won't understand it until it's your impaired son or daughter that gets shot, but then it's a little late.

You sound just like the stupid people who own pit bulls and get upset when someone shoots them because they were being attacked. "It's not the dog's fault!" Sorry, but "impairment" isn't a defense; if you're attempting to cause harm to a person, that person has a right to fight back, when may very well result in your death. You think people with mental problems should get a free pass to kill and rape?

To me, the lack of empathy you show is one of the most destructive forces in the human race right now. It's terrifying, and whenever I hear of some hard-ass changing their mind because it suddenly effects their family, I want to puke.

Your excessive empathy for those who does not deserve it makes me want to puke. It's exactly that which is causing the ridiculous crime rate that we now have. You want to prevent people from defending themselves from thugs, criminals, and (in this case) violent lunatics. I'd rather live in a society where I can feel safe to walk down the street or through the woods without being attacked by some nut. I can understand dealing with danger from wild animals like bears; they're just animals living in their natural environment. But people have a higher responsibility to behave themselves, and if they can't, I won't shed any tears for them when someone shoots them in self-defense.

A good question to ask yourself? If your challenged but strong brother or son were to attack you with intent to harm you, would you feel just as certain about defending yourself from them with a gun as a first choice?

Nice strawman argument. Ask yourself this question: if someone else's possibly "challenged" brother or son attacked you, out of the blue, and you didn't know if this person had murderous intent or not (and you had never met them before so you didn't know who they were or what drugs they were on), would you defend your life?

My guess is your first thought is "Sure" because you actually don't have the ability to empathize even with yourself--to imagine how you would feel. Did you even TRY? How your wife would treat you? How your father would feel about you killing his mentally challenged son?

How would you feel about the man whose vicious

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[WK1]

I agree with some of what you've said. What ever happened to good ol' public floggings, canings, indentured servitude (like community service, but private too), exile and hangings? Prisons are unnatural, too expensive, etc. "Keep it simple," that's what I always say.

Jury trials are important though. We need to keep those. Here in the US, they're "guaranteed" by the constitution, anyway.

Also, it is important to kill people in public. Killing people in the early morning in a small basement room makes it look like you're hiding something. The entire justice system needs to be public in order to work effectively.

Anyway, I totally agree. Stupid PC Wankers!

Re:The Seattle Police were not as curious

[Chuq]

3 km/h is the leeway given in Victoria, Australia.

3 km/h = 1.86 mph.

Well I wasn't robbed...

[SeaFox]

and my stuff sold on eBay. But I got robbed *on eBay* recently. Bought an item and paid for it Dec 29th, and the seller closed their eBay account and deleted all their listings a couple days later. They have not contacted me or returned my money.

The first thing I thought was "why would eBay let some close their account and delete all listings when they still have open transactions". I mean, they let them *delete* the listings here. If you try and search for it eBay says the item number is wrong or doesn't exist. It no longer appears under my "auctions I won" either. And that's different. I've had transactions with sellers who close their eBay accounts before completing a transaction, I couldn't leave feedback once we amicably worked out our issue, but the auction listing was still accessible. Here, If I try to contact the seller eBay asks for the item number and I get the same error. It appeared at first I would have no way of proving I ever bought anything until I went into the dispute center and looked up the item there, then (and only there) it shows up. But it was "too early" to file a dispute.

Luckily, this was an actual company with a separate website/store, so I have other means of trying to reach them. I'm going to call their regular website customer service (hey, you aren't reachable through eBay anymore) tomorrow and try to get this straightened out. If I can't reach them there, it's now late enough I can dispute through eBay/Paypal.

Re:Well I wasn't robbed...

[b0s0z0ku]

Luckily, this was an actual company with a separate website/store, so I have other means of trying to reach them.

Don't be too harsh on them immediately. Their account could have well been hacked either through phishing or a dishonest employee. It happens all the time, unfortunately.

-b.

Re:Well I wasn't robbed...

[SeaFox]

Don't be too harsh on them immediately. Their account could have well been hacked either through phishing or a dishonest employee. It happens all the time, unfortunately.

Had they simply closed their eBay account, I wouldn't have been so worried. It was the fact they first deleted all their listings, which has the effect of removing all easy-to-see proof I ever had a transaction to begin with. This was an extra step on their part. It's troubling to have eBay's website act like it has never heard of the item number I am looking for and refuse to give me contact info for the member (because it does not recognize my item number).

I should mention I have tried contacting them already. The email receipt from Paypal has an email address for them on their domain, their actual PayPal account record also has a different email address on the same domain. I sent emails to both addresses over the last week. They were just short little "Hey there! I noticed you closed your eBay account..." type things. I just wanted a note back that they hadn't forgotten about me and if they wanted to drop the transaction. If I caught them just before they shut down their eBay operations I can understand, I just want my money back if that's the case.

When I didn't get any response by the end of the week, I tried to call the company's customer service 800 number on their regular website. It might have been after hours for them, I got an answering system that could not accept any new messages at the time. Then I noticed the PayPal info had a separate long-distance number for them. I got an answering machine for the business, which I left a message giving the eBay item number, day I paid them and amount, ect and my number to call me back. I have had no response to any of these attempts to contact them.

Doesn't sound like the behavior of a company that was the hapless victim of eBay hacking to me.

News?

[oprahwinfree]

I guess everything is going to make the news somewhere, at some point, but is it news when stolen items show up on a gigantic, nationwide used goods marketplace?

Anywhere an outlet for used products exists, it is going to have some percentage of stolen goods enter it. Take the percentage of stolen goods that are sold at pawn shops or yard sales and compare it to the percentage of stolen goods sold on eBay. I'd lay odds on them being similar.

True story

[Frogbert]

My brother worked for a large electronic company in Australia. He was the one in charge of distributing laptops and computers to the rest of the company. After the annual review they found they were down a few laptops. As these laptops had never gone out to the staff it was clear that they had either not been delivered originally, were taken from the store room or behind some boxes somewhere gathering dust. The store room staff searched high and low for them for about a day with no luck. As they were packing up to go home one of them said they should check ebay as a joke.

Sure enough the missing laptops were there, and the sellers previous sales showed a number of other laptops that were standard builds for the company.

The police were quite pleased to have an open and shut case given to them.

good to know that....

[Rooked_One]

A quick check of the serial number (note to cyber-criminals: don't post those) showed that it was the exact device that had been stolen."

Because /. is full of criminals???

Re:good to know that....

[Dark_Gravity]

Because /. is full of criminals???

And anyone would know one way or the other exactly how?

imagine the exchange of words

[Anonymous Coward]

Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #134356266
Question about Item -- Respond Now

eBay sent this message on behalf of an eBay member through My Messages. Responses sent using email will go to the eBay member directly and will include your email address.

Question from VicTum343
  victum343( 13)
  Positive feedback: 99.3%
  Member since: Dec-05-00
  Location: NY, United States
  Registered on: www.ebay.com

Item: (134356266)
RobBurr999 is the seller.

Hey Rob, that's my GPS equipment you have. Please give it back or else I call police. And I give negative feedback. Contact me now! - Vic

Somebody help!

[aslvrstn]

My P-P-P-Powerbook was just stolen and I found the thief reselling it on ebay! Call the cops!

Re:Somebody help!

[giminy]

For anybody that never heard of this, it was a fun counter-prank to a scam attempt on ebay: http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/

Reid

Re:Somebody help!

[Kalriath]

A Powerbook? Dude, send the guy a medal. Then claim on the insurance and buy a MacBook Pro (cause, you know, that's what got stolen, right?)

This Actually Happened to Us

[beadfulthings]

My Aged Mum, who was then 80 years of age, lived in an apartment residence for the elderly. Two years ago (on Christmas Eve, no less) she was the victim of a ruthless home invasion. The thief had worked very hard to gain the trust of the elderly residents, and on the night she struck (yep, it was a woman), my mother admitted her to the apartment.

Mom's phone wires were cut her call bell was de-commissioned, and she was savagely beaten--actually unimaginably beaten, and left for dead on the floor in her living room. One of the items taken was an antique doll, quite distinctive and large, and also very valuable. It dated back to approximately the 1820's and had been handed down through the generations from mother to daughter for all that time.

Aged Mum survived, though with traumatic brain injuries that left her mental capacities greatly diminished. She grieved over that doll; perhaps it was irrational, but I grieved, too. While the police worked on finding the perpetrator, I began to haunt eBay. Each morning as I started work, and each night before I went to bed, I ran search after search, using every term I could think of. Three weeks after the crime, I hit paydirt; the doll was there. Because I had been so connected to it over my lifetime, I was able to supply an exhaustive description. (Unaccountably we had no photograph.) The police contacted eBay, the auction was stopped, they got a warrant, and next morning they served it on the seller.

As it turns out, he was legitimate; he had purchased the doll at a well known local flea market the week before. He had been on eBay for several years, selling vintage stuff and assorted items he found at local sales. He provided as much information as he could, and the doll was returned to us within 24 hours of my first locating it at eBay. The doll's porcelain head was undamaged, but her arms (which are kidskin leather) were in bad shape.

Stories like this really don't have good outcomes. In our case we've had to see an intelligent, lively old lady suffer the loss of her intellect in what should be a comfortable old age. The police have not located the criminal after two years, and additional violence has taken place at that facility where my mother lived. Aged Mum is in a much better facility now, and the doll is here with me--and has been photographed and appraised for insurance purposes.

I guess the lessons learned are these: (1) Ebay does cooperate with police, and the police know how to secure their cooperation--probably best to leave the interaction to the cops. (2) I had some kind of underlying certainty, which might have been irrational, that the doll would eventually show up on eBay, one way or the other. I searched diligently and regularly. (3) Document your valuables. (4) It may take a while for your items to turn up, and they may pass through several hands. It all depends on whether the scum who has robbed you is versed in eBay or has to use the traditional fences, flea markets, and crooked pawnbrokers.

Re:This Actually Happened to Us

[Rob T Firefly]

I'm very sorry to learn of what happened to your mother, you and yours have my deepest condolences.

It all depends on whether the scum who has robbed you is versed in eBay or has to use the traditional fences, flea markets, and crooked pawnbrokers.

The unique thing about eBay is it pretty much has a monopoly on the mainstream used-goods market these days. Flea markets, garage sales, pawn shops, charity shops, and other secondhand sources now have a whole customer base they didn't have ten years ago; people who are specifically looking for cheap stuff to flog on eBay for a profit. So, even if you are robbed by the most net-cluelesss crackhead on the planet, there is a good chance the merchandise will eventually end up in the hands of someone with the means to eBay it.

Re:This Actually Happened to Us

[Anonymous Coward]

we dont care about your grandma. please take it to your livejournal.

-cmdrtaco

Re:This Actually Happened to Us

[Rich0]

First - I'm very sorry to hear about this tragedy - I honestly have difficult replying just because I can't really equate the seriousness of what befell your mother with the content of this post.

That said, my feeling is that the only reason the police even investigated this theft is due to the associated near-murder of your mother. As many others have indicated, if a crime is "just a theft" it often gets ignored.

The tragedy is that most likely the thug that nearly killed your mother probably stole something before then, and maybe in one of those cases they could have been tracked down (maybe they made a mistake). If they were punished for the minor crime of theft then maybe things would have turned out better for your mother.

In my opinion crimes like theft and vandalism should be treated very seriously - they are personal in nature and if somebody is willing to smash your windows they will eventually be willing to smash you. Even if only $100 is stolen the police should be willing to spend a good sum to apprehend the criminal - eventually it will pay off.

Re:This Actually Happened to Us

[beadfulthings]

Oh, I think you're absolutely right. Actually, as it happened, the police (and a lot of other people) believe the woman who committed the crime is a prostitute who gained access to the residential areas of the building through lax enforcement of rules; the rules state that you sign in, the person you're visiting is contacted, and once you're vouched for, you may go to that person's apartment. However, nobody ever checked (a) to ensure that people who went in came out again, or (b) that they actually went where they said they were going. There are Federal rules in place that ensure that you really don't know if your next-door neighbor is a retired schoolteacher or clerk, a retired pimp or drug dealer, or somebody "in recovery from drug addiction." Sadly for us, we weren't aware of any of this until it was too late.

Interest in the case escalated all the way up to the mayor and police commissioner; the crime was pretty heinous. Big-city police detectives aren't in the habit of going to that much effort to restore a doll to a little old lady. There was a bit of judicious media coverage (newspaper, television), in hopes that somebody would recognize the doll or the circumstances and bring additional information to light. Aged Mum couldn't help much because she could scarcely talk. But they wanted very much to catch this person.

I agree with you that attention to smaller crimes might put inroads into the bigger ones. In this case, an arrest or two for loitering, prostitution, petty theft, whatever--might have made a big difference. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen due to budgets and staffing.

Just to bring it all back on-topic, I do have to reiterate that eBay cooperated fully and immediately. But I have to wonder what percentage of it is a thieves' market--I really do.

You wouldn't want to do that.

[raehl]

Unless eBay was being used to launder them...

It's not worth as much after it's been washed.

Serial #s

[LordLucless]

Actually, it would be quite beneficial if listing the serial # of items on eBay became a de facto SOP. If legitimate traders started including identifying information, such as serial #s, as a way of verifying that the goods were not stolen, other merchants would be pressured into doing the same. Listings without a serial number would be regarded as suspicious, so people wouldn't get burnt dealing with crooks.

Re:Serial #s

[Loconut1389]

I've oft thought this, but then I consider all of the sites that let you register a device solely based on the serial number. Not only then are you potentially granting others the ability to get to your information (some sites do say 'hey, you've registered before'), but you're allowing others unjust access to extras that often come with devices (software downloads, whatever). I agree that serial numbers are a good way of adding good faith to the sale, but they can just as easily be forged/fudged/made up, and only someone very familiar with the product might catch an oddball serial number. Either way, they're not the grand solution it seems like at first glance.

Re:Serial #s

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be about as good to post the last four digits (1/10000) or even some sort of hash function, if eBay created a link to a hashing tool or something.

Re:Serial #s

[LordLucless]

I agree that serial numbers are a good way of adding good faith to the sale, but they can just as easily be forged/fudged/made up, and only someone very familiar with the product might catch an oddball serial number. Either way, they're not the grand solution it seems like at first glance.

It wouldn't necessarily be the buyer confirming the serial number, but victims of theft who know what they're looking for that check them out. So no, it's not really the serial number that's giving the purchaser reassurance; its the fact that the serial number was published, and the sale hasn't been taken down yet that gives the faith.

As to the registration argument, the only reason I've registered any of my devices is to streamline warranty claims, which isn't really applicable, since you still need the busted device to claim warranty.

Re:Serial #s

[noidentity]

How do you verify that the serial number is a) a valid one for that product model, and b) the one for the item for sale (and not copied from another auction)? Legit sellers could post photos of the back of the device with the serial number visible, but this would still allow many kinds of deception.

Cellular Phones

[sporkme]

Cellular phones that are reported stolen are blocked by the provider from activation except by the original owner, or after clearance by the retailer to whom they were originally shipped. Always get the 11-digit electronic serial number (decimal) of a phone before buying it, and call the provider to verify that it is not stolen.

When phones were stolen from my former employer, they had a value of zero after we called to submit the list of ESN's that the thief got.

Re:Cellular Phones

[networkBoy]

Funny story.
We were carrying Sprint cell phones right when they started rolling out their CDMA service. We had a live demo phone to show off the clarity. My (now wife) GF was helping these two retards from the next door Hometown Buffet (who had stolen the phone from the demo kiosk). They were asking about car chargers and she said: "I'll be happy to help you once you give me my phone back". Well, they bolted (nevermind the Hometown Buffet polo shirts or the name tags), and my GF called the sprint store. These fools went to make a call, where upon a security officer from sprint (pretexting as a customer service rep) said: "Oh, the store must have accidently sold you a demo unit. Bring it into the Sprint store on Fulton for a free replacement and activation." Like all crooks who've been caught, these guys were morons and went into the store. While the replacement phone was "activating" the cops were on the way :-)

Nevermind that my GF was also in the Buffet chewing out the manager about these two. She successfully recovered the value of the demo kiosk (which they damaged when they stole the phone) from their final paychecks, leaving them with (IIRC) under a buck each for the "you're fired" pay check.

-nB

You don't know most thieves

[Stephen Samuel]

There are mastermind thieves (PhD in Mech Eng who learns how to crack safes with a magnet), then there are 'most' thieves (meth head looking for an easy way to get his next buzz). The former are gonna cover their tracks really well, but the latter are gonna think that they're geniuses just by the fact that they thought of selling their (your) stuff on ebay.

but most thieves aren't going to be moronic enough to leave behind identifying marks. Although I can just imagine the Q&A...

I think you'd be shocked at just how stupid some of these people get. I had a roommate who relapsed to using meth, so I got to meeting some of them. A few of them start intelligent, but a couple hundred hits of meth (or whatever), and your brain starts to yearn for some of those missing cells.

Re:You don't know most thieves

[Dark_Gravity]

You don't know most thieves

Mod parent up!

I don't know most thieves (*hopefully not any!), and not every doper (*see previous disclaimer) is a thief, but the parent describes an all too common scenario that should be disseminated more widely.

While most burglary victims don't know any thieves or dopers, the thieves' and dopers' paths certainly cross more than *anyone* would desire.

UCONN LCD's

[borgasm]

A while back some kids stole a bunch of big flat panel monitors at my school.

They made a few mistakes:

1) Posted the items on EBay with their @uconn.edu addresses
2) Stored the items on campus in a dorm room.
3) Told people about it.

Oops

Re:UCONN LCD's

[MalleusEBHC]

Heh, being a member of the school's famous basketball team doesn't help either.

Re:UCONN LCD's

[hamelis]

I guess that's one way of proving you're too dumb to stay in college...

Fourth path...

[b0s0z0ku]

Offer to pick it up in person. Come to the guy's door with two burly friends, a pit bull, and a couple of shotguns. It's not like the guy'll complain to the cops about being roughed up a bit. Make sure to leave him good feedback "COMPLIANT seller..."

-b.

Re:Fourth path...

[Joebert]

I'm sure his next door neighbor will just smile, wave, & continue to water their grass as Motley Crew walks up to the door too.

Re:Fourth path...

[Splab]

Dude you got some issues. This is your second post advocating violence to deal with lost property. You really should get some counseling.

Re:Fourth path...

[Dragonslicer]

I'm assuming this was meant as a joke, but still, it's a very bad idea. Yes, the guy will complain to the cops, and yes, it will be you who ends up in jail. In the US, you can break into someone's house, trip on a rug, fall down the stairs, and sue the owner of the house for liability for your injuries. It's a sad country.

Re:Fourth path...

[b0s0z0ku]

This is your second post advocating violence to deal with lost property. You really should get some counseling.

If you get your property stolen, and know where it is, you'll sit on your ass and do nothing about it? W00t for you. I'm not advocating violence. I'm advocating coming with the ability to *do* violence in case the scum doesn't give up the property peacefully.

-b.

Re:Fourth path...

[Splab]

I can always replace a stolen item. Thats what insurance is for. I can't give someone their life back after it has been taken, nor any motor skills they might lose in a fight, therefor I will never EVER think of an item as above somebody's health. The fact that you do that is sad, and I do hope someone will be able to stop you before you live out your sick fantasies.

Re:Fourth path...

[b0s0z0ku]

I can always replace a stolen item. Thats what insurance is for.

You think that everyone has insurance on everything?

I can't give someone their life back after it has been taken, nor any motor skills they might lose in a fight, therefor I will never EVER think of an item as above somebody's health.

Have you thought of the fact that a person who's willing to break into cars and houses to steal stuff needs to be stopped one way or another because then will hurt one of their victims eventually (if you break into a house, you're basically *begging* for violence)? And, unlike them, their victims are innocent of any wrongdoing. Don't be so damn concerned about assholes that themselves have no concern for others.

-b.

Re:Fourth path...

[woksta]

Don't listen to him b0s0z0ku. Violence is often the only way to solve problems!

Re:Fourth path...

[Splab]

Yes I do in fact think that most sane people here in Denmark have insurance. And you know what, we got lots of burglaries, but violence is not an issue there. And no, people who break into houses are not begging for violence, you got some serious issues, seek help!

Re:Fourth path...

[b0s0z0ku]

Yes I do in fact think that most sane people here in Denmark have insurance. And you know what, we got lots of burglaries, but violence is not an issue there. And no, people who break into houses are not begging for violence, you got some serious issues, seek help!

This is the US, not Denmark. Unfortunately, we do have burglaries with violence. Not all of them, but some proportion, anyway. And before you go blathering about gun ownership, not all of the violence even involves guns. It can just be a startled homeowned getting up, scaring the burglar, and the burglar getting scared and kicking the crap out of the homeowner (or vice versa). Stay in your soft socialist utopia. We handle things differently here sometimes.

-b.

mmmm... not sure about that...

[foreverdisillusioned]

IANAL, either, but I was always under the impression that you're never allowed to keep stolen property, full stop. The fact that you made (what you thought was) a legitimate purchase doesn't change the fact that the seller did not have the right to sell the item in question.

For example, there have been a couple cases of people being conned into "buying" public property (most famously the Brooklyn Bridge.) Yes, these people were EXTREMELY gullible, so it probably wouldn't pass your "reasonable expectation" test, but let's take a step back for a moment and imagine a scenario where the person was not extraordinarily gullible, but rather was duped through nigh-superhuman effort on the part of the con artist. Let's say that the fraudster knew that the target would have a keen interested in buying the Brooklyn Bridge, if it was ever actually for sale, so he cooked up a scheme involving buying off the subject's friends and acquaintances, slipping him fake newspapers, hiring actors to play all the appropriate officials, figured out a halfway plausible reason for the sale (they're building a replacement, perhaps) etc. and in the end, he actually succeeds in convincing his target that the Brooklyn Bridge was, indeed, for sale, and the target "buys" it from the criminal. Does that now mean that the target legally owns the Brooklyn Bridge? Of course, the only sane answer is a resounding "NO!" The government did not agree to sell him anything.

I believe that the "reasonable expectation" concept you speak of pertains more to criminal culpability--the buyer be held criminally responsible, for example, if he buys the Mona Lisa (a few months after it was stolen) because it's not reasonable for him to claim that he didn't know it was stolen.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but it just makes sense--if ownership of the stolen property was actually legally transfered to the buyer, it would be utter chaos. You could steal the hope diamond, trade it to your friend for a candy bar (technically, this is a valid transaction) telling him it's worthless glass, and as long as you could prove that your friend really did think it was fake, it would become his legal property and the original owners would be SOL. Somehow, I really doubt that it works that way...

Re:mmmm... not sure about that...

[shystershep]

You're close. A thief can never transfer good title to stolen goods -- the original owner stills owns it and can get it back from the buyer no matter how far down the chain they are. If the thief sells to buyer 1, buyer 1 to buyer 2, etc., buyer 100 would still have to give it back to the original owner, then try to get his money back from 99, 99 from 98, etc, back to the thief.

Re:mmmm... not sure about that...

[cooley]

That's correct. Caveat Emptor.

Re:mmmm... not sure about that...

[dculberson]

At least in Ohio, if something is stolen and sold to a pawn shop, the original owner has to pay the pawn shop what they paid to buy the item from the thief. This is from personal experience, twice, having recovered goods stolen from me. The Columbus police confirmed that law. I didn't bother with a lawyer since the total was $50. Obviously a pawn shop is different from an individual, laws vary from state to state, etc. etc. -David

Stolen PC

[flyingfsck]

The wife's PC was stolen a few days ago - I'm waiting for the asshat to plug it into the internet. Come-on buddy, plug it in, plug it in.

Grumble, grumble...

Ebay is the Biggest Fence in the World

[Anonymous Coward]

Did this article surprise anyone? Ebay has become the biggest and easist way to fence stolen goods and get full market value. As long as they are not not easily identifiable, it is perfect.

Cruel And Unusual Punishment A *Bad* Thing?.....

[IHC Navistar]

I've read quite a few posts dwelling on the topic of people who aren't getting punished, enough, for the kind if crap, like this, that they do.

Does anybody remember the case of Michael P. Fay, the dimwit who spray painted a bunch of cars and stole roadsigns in Singapore and was caned for it?

I GUARENTEE that if we instututed corporal punishment to individuals who flagrantly flaunt the law or are incorrigible, they would definitely think twice about breaking the law. U.S. prisons have become nothing more than expensive, overcrowded hotels for people who treat them as a sort of revolving-door free boarding house.

They are entitled to:

-Free security from themselves (mental health issues) (we pay for the security)
-Free security from others (fREE armed SECURITY, at that) (we pay for the security)
-3 free, healthy, balanced meals a day (we pay for the food, the kitchens to prepare and cook it, cooks to supuervise the prisoners who cook it, and the kitchens and supplies)
-Free healthcare (we pay for the doctors and supplies and hospital trips)
-Free prescription drugs (we pay for them)
-Free protection from the elements (we pay for the safe, durable, strudy facility, and all the maintenance)
-Free room and board (No rent, mortgage, etc.) (we pay the rent)
-Free water (we pay the water bill)
-Free electricity (we pay the eletricity bill)
-Free cable T.V. (we pay the cable bill)
-Free heating / air conditioning (we pay the heating / air conditioning bill)
-Guaranteed showers (we pay for the facilities)
-Free high-speed Internet (we pay for the Internet access)
-Free college / high school education (here in California, you have to be drowning in poverty to even come close to qualifying for State help) (we still pay for that, too)
-Jobs readily provided (yes, the State gives you a job if you behave.) (we pay their wages)
-Free Hospital-level sanitary living and eating conditions. (we pay for the upkeep and maintenance)
-Conjugal visits (Some prisons. But still, you get to spend a few nights, alone, and in your own privacy in a small one-room "cabin" with your wife. Not just any cabin, it has a kitchen where you can cook your own meals, heating/air conditioning, etc. Essentially your own house, but on prison grounds) (we pay for the whole thing)
-Free bed, mattress, blankets, pillows. (we pay for them)
-Free laundry facilities (we pay for them)
-Free recreational grounds (we pay for the upkeep)
-On-call officers 24-hours a day in case you have a question or need something (we pay their wages)
-Less-Than-Lethal weapons in case you get out of control (we pay for them. Compare a $25 stun grenade [to allow officers to restrain you at risk to their own safety] vs. a $.30 bullet)
-Easy access to an attorney or legal representative on request, at no cost to you (we pay for them)
-Free counseling (we pay for the counselors)
-Free addiction-cessation programs (we pay for them and the supplies)
-Free libraries (we pay for the books and facilities)
-The ability to indulge in hobbies like ship building, model making, woodworking, etc. (we pay for the equipment, supplies, facilities, and upkeep)

The Gulags were a pretty good idea, but the mistake was that people were there for ".....speaking against the Government, suspicion, and other manifestations of Soviet paranoia". I'll bet repeat offenders were few and far between. Murderers were probably shot on the spot, and not allowed to relax with the aforementioned "luxuries of life". Yes, I call them luxuries, seeing as how we law-abiding individuals have to work all day to pay for them, and we are not guarenteed them.

Yes, I RTFA, and use this post to explain why people do this sort of thing. They lose very little compared to people who worked hard to buy what they have, er, used to have before these clowns steal it. I work hard for what I have. Yes, *I HAVE* been robbed before: I was beaten unconsious with tire iron and baseball

Theives are dumb !

[Anonymous Coward]

I got a story for you.

About 15 years ago I had a weekly doctors appointment for a test I was getting done. I was late. I pulled up on my bike and ran in to tell the receptionist. Her desk was about 20 feet from the front door. When I went back outside to lock up my bike, it was gone.

A week later I go for my next appointment and lo and behold, there is my bike, locked up with someone elses chain. Right in front of the doctors office.

I call the cops. They say they will be over, but they don't have time to catch/wait for the thief. I should call someone to cut the chain. They won't do it. But first they have to verify the bike is mine.

The cops arrive. I show them the bike. We are parked across the street in the cop car. They call in to the city to verify the license tag, which is still on the bike.(!) Meanwhile the thief comes along and unlocks the bike ! They arrest him ! I get my bike back. The thief didn't even remove my bike license tag. And he totally returned to the scene of the crime.

you kids have it hard. When I was your age...

[microcars]

and living in Chicago and got robbed, all I had to do was get my ass down to Maxwell Street on Sunday morning to buy back my stuff.

ah the good old days, when I used to live next door to a 10 acre Fencing operation..er...Flea Market.

Re:Don't forget...

[Dark_Gravity]

Don't forget...

...to pay your $699 licensing fee you cock-smoking teabaggers.

I think this AC schlep thought he was being funny!

I laughed.

F tha douche anyway!

Ha ha, seen this happen before...

[L4m3rthanyou]

Back in high school, we had a very cool digital animation class. It was specially commissioned, and ten Mac G5s were ordered just for that classroom.

Some time later, they were all stolen. The people who had set up the program were understandably pissed- what kind of scumbag steals equipment from a public school FFS? Well, the teacher was smart enough to check ebay, and sure enough, there they were. The thief was a student... not a minor, either. Turns out he had stolen other computers from the school previously, also. Long story short, he got pwned... no college will ever take the poor bastard now, hahaha.

And as a bonus...

[ScaryMonkey]

On top of all those benefits, I hear it's really easy to get laid! Especially if you're skinny and white...

But seriously, while all those things may be "free" you pay the rather significant price non-monetary price of not being free yourself.

Re:And as a bonus...

[IHC Navistar]

The point was that it didn't really matter, and it doesn't, if the conditions are favorable to you. So what if you are in prison and get everything for free, if being free mean't that you would have to work every day in order to pay for all those things that are no longer free.

yep, twice happened to me

[toby]

A couple of semi-obvious tips on spotting a stolen computer: 1. very careless packaging; 2. personal data intact.

In both cases we contacted police. In one case, apparently little was done by police, despite serial number check immediately revealing that the machine had been recently stolen from a school. In the 2nd case, the stolen laptop - full of personal data, mostly irreplaceable - was the only lead in solving a major house burglary. Laptop returned to owner, thief arrested, eventually had to pay restitution to ebay purchaser. In the second case, the ebay seller's transaction history looked very suspicious. If you have any suspicions - random tips: comb feedback logs in detail; if machine has personal data, contact previous owner (in our case, they confirmed the robbery and were very grateful); Try to get as much identifying detail from seller as possible in case it must be given to police; Don't meet them in person; Get serial numbers and check with police before concluding the sale; contact police and ask for advice.

LAPD was no better...

[L4m3rthanyou]

Yeah, a few months back some punk-ass kid stole my dad's surboard out of his yard. My dad called the police, but they just ran him around to a voice mail box.

Fortunately, though, the other kids in the neighborhood knew who did it... they walked me to his house and after speaking with his mother, we got it back. The kid cooperated, too, but I suspect it was only because his mother was there- his story reeked of BS anyway. But, seeing as how I got the board back for my dad, I didn't want to call him on it (or beat his punk ass, for that matter).

get real

[El Gruga]

eBay is the worlds BIGGEST Fencing operation. There are ZERO checks. Its a monster thief fest........

Ric Romero called he wants his story back

[Anonymous Coward]

Scooped by /. ...terrible.

Think Positive

[Joebert]

If it wasn't for theese brave risk-takers we'd rarely get the opportunity to get theese things for soo cheap, even the richest crackheads run out of stuff eventually.
Sure property relocators could charge full price like everyone else, but out of the kindness of their hearts have decided to give the hard working citizens a break that nobody else is willing to give.

Re:The Seattle Police are the worst

[Anonymous Coward]

Several years ago in the middle of the night I heard a crash, thought it was someone breaking in and called the Seattle PD. Cops show up and it was only a light fixture that fell and broke. Standing around talking I asked them what they do w/any stolen computers they recover. They put them in storage because they don't have the manpower to have anyone sit down and even plug them in to see if owner details can be found.

With the Seattle it's usually a case of Too Little (Mardi Gras riot and deaths) or Too Much (jaywalking tickets).

High School

[u235meltdown]

Not new...
taken from the LA Daily Breeze - Nov. 5, 2004

"An alleged plot by two Palos Verdes Peninsula High School students to profit from the theft of $30,000 worth of computers stolen from a classroom was thwarted when a teacher found the equipment for sale on eBay, sheriff's deputies said Thursday.
...
The break-in at the Rolling Hills Estates campus occurred about 1 a.m. Saturday. Someone jimmied the lock and entered the classroom, taking 10 Macintosh G5 computers."

This has been going on for some time... next time you think you're getting a steal of a price, it may be a real steal.

Re:Cruel And Unusual Punishment A *Bad* Thing?....

[CmdrGravy]

So is someone is bad you is saying they should get caned ?

Re:Cruel And Unusual Punishment A *Bad* Thing?....

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think they get such a good deal, why not join them? After all, it won't cost you anything.

Slashdot: News for crooks Tips for thieves

[Anonymous Coward]

A quick check of the serial number (note to cyber-criminals: don't post those)

This guy has to be a strong contender ...

[carpeweb]

... for a Darwin award, some time in the future.

I am sure I am not alone...

[OneSmartFellow]

In the early(ish) days of E-Bay (before they bought pay-pal), one of my co-workers and I discussed the possibility of selling our companies office supplies (you know, printer paper, envelopes, pens, staplers, etc..) on e-bay.

As a test of the ease of doing this, we created an e-bay and pay-pal account, and placed a few items. Considering that the company also payed (unwittingly) for the postage - which was also charged to the buyer - this was a real cash cow, which we operated for about four or five transactions. We sold enough to pay for a fine meal in a top quality local restaurant.

It was simply too damned easy, and too tempting to continue, and took a fair bit of self-discipline to stop. I am sure others have and continue to do the same thing though.

wtf- where good sir are you from?

[way2trivial]

so, if I sell somebody the brooklyn bridge, who then proceeds to paint it, that gentleman owns the bridge?

I'm pretty sure you are wrong...

Re:wtf- where good sir are you from?

[TheoMurpse]

I forgot to add that the buyer has to be a reasonable buyer, and not absolutely retarded. This is what keeps A and B from colluding to steal C's land.

Hey, Ebay has a great deal on your old stuff!!!

[chriscoolc]

About a week after my stereo, amp, sub, and speakers were stolen out of my truck, some guys I knew bought an amp and subs from a guy in a white cargo van just a block away from where my truck had been. Since my insurance covered everything, I decided it'd be less grief for me just to ignore it. But damn, I sure wanted to turn those pricks in.

Your art example is very good

[ChrisA90278]

For example a painting a stolen 50 or 60 year ago. After that it changes hands a few times and the last two transactions went through art dealers who kept records and didn't know the painting was ever stolen. Now the painting is hanging on loan to an art museum. Then along comes an older woman who sees the painting in a museum an recognizes it is the one stolen from her grandparents.

We can't blame the two art dealers because in the past art was not tracked so well and ownership was transfered with just a handshake. The thief is long dead as is the owner.

I think even in these cases where there is no one alive to blame the current "owner" still looses out and the courts have to straighten it out. These kinds of art cases come up several times a year. The most famos recent cases are with the Getty which was found to be holding art looted from Italy.

look at pawnshop restriction

[peter303]

In many cases the shop has to periodically report the merchandise and identity of the owner to the police. This can work locally, but eBay is international.

Serial numbers in Photos

[purduephotog]

You all DO realize that your digital pictures typically have an embedded serial number of the camera in it, right?

I for one would love it if Flickr or YahooPhotos would offer the ability to search on serial numbers. Then I could recover my digital camera that was stolen... think of the possibilities!

Would at least limit the market for the stupid things. They're obviously worth nothing as parts so the entire unit would be sold to some unsuspecting person.

Been Robbed Recently? Check Ebay

[CrazyJim1]

Yah, Ebay has listing fees, ending fees, and paypal fees. If you were robbed recently, it was probably Ebay.

Suspected, not convicted

[Da3vid]

that anyone suspected of illegal activity immediately has their account canceled.

From TFA, I know I've been hurt by this before, and I think a lot of other people have, too. Suspected... pft.

Ha ha, seen this happen before...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not new...

Look up. Above you! Four posts higher up!

Re:Please translate from Marketing-speak

[instarx]

YOu are right - you are NAL. You have no right to keep stolen property, period. Best Buy might work out a deal where they buy the item from the original owner so you can keep it, but if they wanted their stuff back you would have to give it up. If EXPECTATION was a factor in ownership of stolen property you could keep all the counterfiet money you get, and that won't happen. I can't really see the bank saying "Oh this $50 bill looks pretty real - you can keep it."

Expectation is just used in the courts to determine your level of complicity in the illegal transaction, not to determine ownership.