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AMD Aims At New Standard for Motherboards
alexwcovington writes "CBC reports that AMD is launching DTX, a new motherboard layout about the size of micro-ATX. Their goal is to provide a small, energy efficient board that's compatible with as much hardware as possible. In the DTX, they're hoping to produce a new standard for desktops, and somewhat reverse the decline in consumer interest. From the article: 'Most desktops still have motherboards that operate using a standard laid out in 1995 by Intel called ATX, which stands for Advanced Technology Extended. ATX was designed to allow everything from memory cards to mouse ports to have a standardized spot alongside the central processing unit on a typical desktop motherboard. While there have been other standards since, ATX remains the most common standard for desktops, though its design is not suited for smaller, more energy-efficient desktops, AMD said.' Ars Technica has further details on the board."
But this topic is worthless without pics.
Thing this will follow the form of BTX formfactor? I know in the summary it says to be compatible with as much hardware as it can - so I sure hope that includes the Case. The only way it will catch on is if it will fit in the current cases. With all the overclocking and heating and whatnot, we defiently do want faster and cooler hardware, so hopefully this will catch on.
I couldn't find any of these... But I could be missing something
(1) Does it provide something that is not encompassed by one of MicroATX, MiniITX or ATX
(2) Does combine advantages of any of the above listed form factors?
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Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
Their goal is to provide a small, energy efficient board that's compatible with as much hardware as possible.
If that's the goal, then with ISA, PCI, AGP, PCI-X, IDE33/66/100/133/SATA and a few hundred flavors of SIMMS and DIMMS, I can see this becoming a very large board indeed.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Am very disappointed. There is no "in soviet russia the motherboard .... you" post.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
"and somewhat reverse the decline in consumer interest"
Let's hope for the sake of AMD, their level of excitement is greater than the submitter's. The new boards will have to deliver something effective if they are going to be of any use. Scale down component infrastructure, increase speed and decrease power requirements. Intel could stand to do the same, but still...
HP launched small form factor PCs called Slimlines, and I had a few customers buy them from me -- so far no complaints, but it will be nice to see these models reduced further and then pushed for speed as well, in the future.
AMD seem to really have their eye on the ball, IMHO.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Actually, my brand new Dell XPS 410 is BTX.
Why they even bother? Notebooks and rack servers have won. Not quite yet maybe but I don't know everyone who's gonna buy a new "big" desktop PC anymore. The death of CRT (totally happened already, right?) is just one step away from death of your typical desktop block.
Now - if they would come up with modular notebook design, mmmm.... Standardize on some internal configs (12", 15", 17") and sell cases with different design that I would be able to stuff with motheboard, RAM, HDD, optical drive, etc. Like current PCs. Wouldn't that be great?
...AMD hasn't been advertising with Slashdot since mid-December.
Does it run Windows Vista? Or is that extra?
Speaking of standardized spots for peripherals, is it just me, or when ATX forced everybody to switch to PS2 mice and a different IRQ, did they just not work as well?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
I hope they can take this opportunity to eliminate PS/2 ports once and for all. Even now you still see computers with these ports.
The main reason I want PS/2 to disappear is to force keyboard and mice manufacturers to make USB versions - too many otherwise good keyboards and mice are PS/2 only.
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
I can't find a board anymore that doesn't have PATA connectors sticking out the side of the motherboard because there's no room left (but I suppose this grandfather technology will soon be cast with my 5 1/4 floppies and Zip drives).
./self> Now where's that JP1 jumper pin....?
But if a better solution is on the horizon, I embrace the foresight of smaller and better. Heck if we can put 2 processors on a chip half the size the standard was 5 years ago, why not embrace smaller motherboard technology.
Try a wall socket. It's more electrifying.
With AMD now announcing this new form factor. They can take a look at what made the BTX standard fail. I just hope AMD doesn't do what Intel did that limited the BTX standard and that is to not shut out Intel from the DTX standard. The BTX was strictly for Intel CPUs since the 775 socket. The BTX was lay out was to simply have the CPU near the front of the desktop where the cool air enters the computer. THis was possible since the 775 CPUs still utilizes a northbridge to communicate with the memory. AMD couldn't apply itself to the BTX since its memory controller is on the CPU. DTX should allow Intel to be able to apply itself towards the standard if they want to see third party board makers and chipset makers create products for the DTX. If AMD achieves that, then the DTX has a chance taking over ATX.
The ATX is just way out of date but soo common and cheap that manufacturers continue to utilize it.
It is about time a big company like AMD, and soon Intel (they haven't officially announced any plans to start focusing on more efficient products), start focusing more on energy efficiency right next to better processing power.
Previewing comments are for sissies!
You forgot:
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these.
I see how this layout is smaller in the X and Y direction. Micro-ATX and mini-ITX have already conquered that, however. We need to get rid of the add-on cards, so it is smaller in the vertical. Expansion sockets, not slots, would seem to be the answer.
Journal
In Korea only old people use ATX motherboards.
Personally, I would rather have seen something more substantially different from MicroATX, but I still think that there is a good chance of this catching on.
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
I cant for my life understand why all the computer manufacturers insist on having the CPU inside the box. Its the worst possible place to cool it. Not only is it hot in the box, its also very hard to get a good airflow going. By placing the CPU on the backside of the motherboard and let it protrude out from the case it would be very feasable to use passive cooling. One 10x20 cm cooling plate with fins is more than enough to cool away 120w if there is a free flow of air.
HTTP/1.1 400
dailytech.com and thetechlounge.com have some great photos:.
All the current Optiplex lineup 320, GX520, GX620, 740 (the would never happen AMD computer from Dell) and the 745 are BTX chassis as well. They are great cases, tool free entry, easy access to pretty much every component are really quite quiet.
Really, do you wish to explain the existance of the Dell Optiplex 740 then? Shares the same BTX chassis options as the 745 which is the Core2 Duo option as well as the rest of the Optiplex lineup. Thing is the 740 is Dell's AMD offering for businesses.
I don't see much point in yet another desktop standard. We've laready got a number of good standards there. ATX, MicroATX, BTX, Mini-ITX, Nano-ITX, etc...
What I'd really love to see is a motherboard standard for the laptop. Let me choose the motherboard, the CPU, and other features on it, and let me choose the shell, and let me choose the screen to put into the shell with this chosen motherboard. Why is thre no LTX?
That'd be wicked cool.
AMD and ATI merged recently. ATI is pushing CrossFire, two cards together. Most non-full-ATX boards can handle this. Will the DTX? They want to share technology, and this would be the perfect (though risky) opportunity. Though, of course, it would not be exclusive. I have heard some crazy stories of how to cool down dual-ATI uber-cards, so maybe the "low power" aspect can help this, too. Just speculation, though.
There are lovely little converters, of which I have several, that allow you to use a USB mouse or keyboard on a PS2 port, so no real loss there. Now, I guess they use a few square cm of space, but is that such a big deal?
Besides, given that they probably wouldn't add more than the 10 USB ports I already have, I stick my keyboard & mouse over on USB to keep the ports free. Sure, you can use hubs, but too many of those get to be a pain.
I think this is more of an attempt to get into the Shuttle XPC market than the Mac-Mini market. Or if you prefer, a way to expand the XPC market - thus giving AMD a bigger piece of a bigger pie.
The poster who pointed out that the "Smashing of air over the processor" not being feasible hit it on the head. The Shuttles (and some other SFF makers) generally try to make a heatsink fan that pushes air out of the case.
There is an article on this at: http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36833 with a pic of a mobo. Perhaps by the time the thing gets to market, the fan will have a housing to push air out of the case...
Previewing comments are for sissies!
#define waterbock waterblock
gone completely BTX, so I don't see this happening. BTX is great, provides much better air flow than ATX and meets most of the same goals AMD is after here. I know Gateway and Dell are shipping AMD based boxes in BTX chasis on BTX motherboards, so I just don't see this happening.
It looks like they accept 1 DVI and one VGA connector. It doesn't look like it will fit 2 DVI connectors. IMHO it should have been made to accomodate 2 DVI or one of each, but there doesn't appear to be room. I for one and finnished with VGA and will only use DVI-D in the future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTX_(form_factor)
How was this modded insightful?
Parent poster is clearly on the rag, and should use the bandaid wrapped around his glasses to clean up his mess instead.
mini ITX in (quite small) desktop, pizzabox or laptop config right now, or build your own custom case for it. It's a big enthusiast market and starting to be more and more OEM vendors push them, because it is more than adequate for most people's uses and they run cool and very quiet or silent at lo power requirements.
There's no need at this time for yet another mobo standard. If people need more than what a mini ITX can provide, they need a full tower and just be done with it. The bottom line is, you aren't going to turn that sportscar into a pickup, or the pickup into the family sedan, or any of them into a road tractor. There is no one size fits everyone standard out there, and adding more form factors is inventing for the sake of busywork more than any need. I mean, really, how many people have been losing sleep and pining away saying "gee, if there was just another form factor to choose from, I can't seem to have a computer that fits my needs!"
Answer is no one outside of AMD marketing. Heavy gamers want real towers with tons of slots and/or game consoles. Workstations demand towers. A basic computer for surfing, email, some tunes and vids can be done quite will with a normal low end atx or a mini itx.
Hehe. Nice to know I was several years ahead of others. :) Anyway my idea didn't involve protruding from the case (it's not necessary). My case has the MB in an MB tray, and there's a inch and a half gap between the back of the tray and the case. Plenty of space for a cooling solution be it water, heat pipes, or air. And this case isn't even designed for that.
How about including in this design the single voltage power supply design that Google wants? You can read the original Slashdot discussion here.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Intel actually proposed just that. From this website:
Verified by Intel® is a barebone program between Intel, ODM manufacturers and notebook ingredient suppliers that provides interchangeability of key notebook components for simplified sourcing, inventory management and build-to-order flexibility. Unlike most notebooks that use non-standard components, barebones that are Verified by Intel® are designed and tested for interchangeability of common building blocks, including: Hard disk drives, optical disk drives, keyboards, batteries, LCD screens, customizable notebook panels and AC adapters.
Now if VBI took off, I believe that there is a decent argument to abandon desktops. Currently though, there just isn't.
But alas, it probably won't succeed. Even though the major ODMs (who actually design and manufacture the notebooks.. including Quanta, Compal, ASUS, et al) are all for the VBI initiative -- the major OEMs (who manage notebook inventory and customer service.. including Dell, HP, Compaq, et al) are very, very, very much against it. (OEMs have ridiculous margins on custom notebook parts)
The ATX is just way out of date but soo common and cheap that manufacturers continue to utilize it.
Just like x86...
http://amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=New s&file=article&sid=7021
Theres a link to the pictures. This is not a response to BTX, but something totally different. It is designed to unify the SFF market.
I would take this one step further and have socket-able hard-drives ala rack mounted servers. Dell is pushing 2.5" SATA/SAS drives on their 9th Gen PowerEdge servers and I have personally seen a 1U chassis with 6 2.5" slots! Very cool. Imagine if you could have 4-8 2.5" drive slots in your desktop, all of them accessible without opening the case? Since SATA already supports hot-swap, it seems like a no-brainer. Imagine also moderately-spaced ExpressCard slots for things like TV-tuner and stuff?
:(
Damn, I wet my pants.
When you read a press release talking about a new, smaller form factor, you don't expect to see a photo like this.
While those in the know realise that this is just demonstrating that you can make four motherboards from one standard circuit board panel, your average guy is going to say "holy crap, that's HUGE!".
That said, you can have a bit of caption fun with it, e.g.: "AMD announces eight-core DTX motherboard."
Why must we be forever re-inventing the wheel?!? Is this not-invented-here-ism, shining new-therefore-must-be-better-ism, engineering lazyness (cbf actually studying existing solutions), sell-more-because-of-incompatibility-ism or is there (heaven forbid) an actual better than its predecessors?
See the $120 (1 off) tiny PC at http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjr/index.html and make the CPU a VIA Eden 1.2GHz, the GPU/subsystem a VIA CX700M with MPEG2/4 hardware decode, USB2... and you have a desktop replacement that is fanless because it draws under 20W total with HDD.
It's called Microclient Sr., and announced at CES this week.
If you want onboard DVD/CD player/burner, there are other versions that are bigger to accommodate a slimline DVD.
I have a Microclient Jr., and it is acceptable with XP and zippy with Win98 - not bad for 200MHz and 8W!
Give it a couple of years, and desktop cases will be just for the gamers and people needing a lot of cards of storage.
DTX offers so little difference over mATX or mITX its just silly. Its just yet another size, nothing else being offered. BTX (and mBTX, picoBTX) offers a lot more, most importantly thermals, only requiring a change of CPU heatsink/fan and the case. It allows a single fan to provide non-circulated airflow for the CPU, northbridge, PCI-E video card, and hard drive. The only reason AMD didn't adopt it is because Intel developed it (and that would make them seem weak?). FYI, BTX is used in a lot of Dells, Gateways, and the Mac Pro. Supposedly Intel is abandoning BTX by year end because of lack of adoption.
You have to keep in mind that when ATX was developed when CPUs didn't require fans, and video cards didn't have heatsinks! This standard is beyond antiquated.
Hey, my 1998-1999 OptiPlex GX 110 already has the CPU fan on the back with a hood going to the heat sink. I'm way ahead of these new-fangled thingies!
The government can't save you.
...when we have PC104?
Has been on the market for ages, is well established and to me one of the neatest designs since the S100 bus.
The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
ATX motherboards don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore.
Are laptops and rack servers replacing some desktop systems? Sure. Are desktop systems going to go away? Not any time soon.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
The Microclient Jr. is advertised specifically as running with complete driver support on Puppy Linux, and does so directly from a 128Mbyte CF card plugging into the computer's built in CF socket.
That fact was the decider when I bought one... though from experimentation it looks like Win98 is faster. The Puppy works directly without messing about at all though.
I completely disagree. I work with plenty of OS's that don't have USB support at ALL when you need it.... like at the installer phase.
... uh, but they all did the latter years ago.
At the installer phase, it's not your OS that needs to support USB. It's your BIOS. (They designed the USB "boot keyboard" protocol for exactly this reason.) Nobody's suggesting that motherboard makers phase out PS/2 before adding support for USB's boot keyboard protocol
There is more to this than using your new sparkly USB keyboard via Windows.
I don't use Windows, but thanks for trying. And all of my USB keyboards work just fine with every Linux installer I've ever tried. They even work with every BIOS of every USB-containing motherboard I've ever tried. Your OS has to actively break USB for this to be a problem (and if it's actively breaking things, PS/2 is just as susceptible).