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Decryption Keys For HD-DVD Found, Confirmed
kad77 writes "It appears that, despite skepticism, 'muslix64' was the real deal. Starting from a riddle posted on pastebin.com, members on the doom9 forum identified the Title key for the HD-DVD release 'Serenity.' Volume Unique Keys and Title keys for other discs followed within hours, confirming that software HD-DVD players, like any common program, store important run-time data in memory. Here's a link to decryption utility and sleuthing info in the original doom9 forum thread. The Fair Use crowd has won Round One; now how will the industry respond?"
The Fair Use crowd has won Round One; now how will the industry respond?"
Lawyers. Lots of them.
Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question
Revoke the key. It will happen each time.
I predict that any backlash against key revokation will be addressed by very polished newsvertisements which state that the key revocation is the result of "hacking" by the "pirates" and despite the sincere regret of the problems caused, there is nothing they can do at this point.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
By admitting DRM is useless and treating customers like clients instead of criminals? Only in my mind, only in my mind....
http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
Between the porn industry choosing HD-DVD and now this, I know what I'm opting for when upgrading to HD movies! Sorry, Sony. I was so looking forward to having spyware installed on my PC with every BluRay disc purchased just like your music discs.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
it's a great day to be a pirate, arr...
"Hello, Doom9.com's ISP? Yes, this is Microsoft. We're auditing your sofware licenses."
"Hello, Doom9.com's registrar? You're being charged with violating the DMCA. Pretty much all of it."
"Hello, little tiny country? This is the MPAA, and as official representitives of the US government, we're asking you to hand over all people involved in this post on Doom9.com's forum. If you fail to respond, we'll enact sanctions on your country and drive you into the dark ages. Just look at North Korea for an example.
``The Fair Use crowd has won Round One; now how will the industry respond?''
I think at least the Blu-Ray camp will switch on their intergalactic megaphones and tout how Blu-Ray was superior all along. This whole format war is childish enough for that.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
You have Pr0n, cheaper hardware and blank media than Blu-ray and now you can "backup" movies, HD-DVD will be the winner of the HD format war, at least here in Argentina, Brazil or other developing countrys where piracy reigns...
Someone should start a list of 'safe-to-buy' HD-DVD hardware and content/media.
I took a look at the spec for the HD-DVD encryption. The data is encrypted with AES-128 in CBC mode. The spec states clearly that the IV is a fixed constant. CBC required the IV to no only be unique, but also random. Not making it unique and random leads to a leak of key material. I assume that this is the weakness through which the keys are being extracted.
So rejoice. The HD-DVD media keys will be free.
Evil people are out to get you.
Just by figuring this out hasn't the DMCA now been violated and soon the people who made the discovery will be violated as well in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.
Who needs Blu-Ray anyway?
That format has killed itself by Sony's arrogant attitude. History has shown that locked-in, porn-shy formats always loose.
HDCP is the biggest crime in consumer history yet, let's hope this development kills it before it really takes of. For me there are two choices:
1) HD content works with my current and future hardware setup
2) No HD content for me
It's about time those media companies learn what they are producing their precious content for.
Ermmm... Good plan except major movie studios will only release on Blu-Ray if it's DMR holds up (at least for the next couple of month). Then again maybe all you want to watch is Porn.
BTW, in yesterday's post about HD Porn and Sony not Allowing Porn on BETA, I assure you there was LOTS of porn on BETA. The adult industry may prefer HD-DVD for cost reasons, but if Blu-Ray wins, there will be Blu-Ray porn -- count on it.
The best thing might be for HD-DVD to fail, have Blu-Ray generally accepted, and THEN break the DMR Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha
Letter To Iran
What they would need is to do the decryption the the LCD pixels. Even if they do it in the LCD driver chip, recording is possible and not that hard to do, considering that one un-DRMed copy on P2P will distribute really fast...
However, today software players running on general-purpose hardware are necessary. Without them, the market shrinks too much. And software players cannot be secure against the system administrator. The keys have to be stored somewhere.
What I don't understand is why anybody bothers. The trash comming out of Hollywoos is certainly not worth the effort. Maybe that is why it takes so long to break these systems at the moment....
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
"The key is under the mat..."
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Don't release the crack until after the standard is settled! Now all the studios will go Blu-Ray only.
sulli
RTFJ.
or people who want to watch movies they bought on their mythtv system
or people who like to buy movies and watch them, but don't run windows
Couldn't the industry, if it were so inclined, just stop licensing software players? I would imagine that compared to set top DVD players, the software must be a pretty small segment.
...and substiute it with the real deal. Although there was initial skeptisim on my , original (unbeknownst dupe) post, it looks like muslix64 is about to bring HD-DVD to it's knees. It's just really hard to take youtube vid's as evidence of a successful crack.
WTG muslix64!
Could someone please paste the pastebin contents here?
And guns are just as useful to criminals as they are to law enforcement units and law abiding people protecting their home.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You win the ubertroll award.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Quite simple. The content industry will simply dump the format, after all, there's an alternative. Now it's high time to show that BluRay is just as "consumer friendly" and break it for good, so there is no alternative left, and if the studios want to get their content to the customer, they have to accept that DRM is useless in their strife to protect their rights.
The point is to create as much damage as possible, so the industry learns that the only one hurt by DRM are they themselves. Revoked keys mean more work, more expense, more hassle and dissatisfied customers who have to jump the hoops. This will in turn create more awareness for DRM and the problems it creates.
We have to teach the studios that DRM is a failure. That it only generates hassle and problems for their paying customer and is no barriere or even a deterrent for the pirates. For this, the customer has to be the one hurt, too. Learn the easy or the hard way, learn about DRM by investigating or by having your tools stop working.
Yes, that's not the usual gentle way of teaching. But appearantly some people don't learn 'fore it starts to hurt.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The Lawyers
Man them...
It will send in a few lawyers. After a while, they will realise that their impact is negligible in the grand scheme of things: the DRM will continue to deter casual copying to some extent, but will continue to be impotent in preventing anyone determined to make a copy and willing to spend a little time on the 'net to find out how (or download a pre-ripped version).
Meanwhile, genuine customers will get seriously annoyed at the fact that DRM in HD-world has now moved beyond a minor inconvenience or ethical question as it was with things like DVDs, and into the realms of seriously impeding their enjoyment of the product they have legally purchased. A consumer backlash will result, with the effect that DRM becomes a "dirty word" 2-3 years from now, and distributors drop heavily-encumbered formats and go back to what works: a mostly hands-off scheme that's enough to deter casual copying by schoolkids but nothing that risks seriously impacting the marketability of their merchandise.
On the same sort of time scales, on-line distribution will reach a critical mass, and the movie distributors will adopt a second, parallel strategy where cheap, legal, unencumbered downloads are the norm. They will make their profit from on-line users through many small incomes, rather than the larger one-offs represented by (HD-)DVD purchases today. This will render illegal distribution channels mostly irrelevant, and the damage due to illegal copying will revert to being low-level noise as it mostly was before they started their current crusade anyway.
Hey, it's a new year and everyone else is making crystal ball predictions. Can't I have mine, too? :-)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
New disks can be pressed with new keys, and the compromised software player will have it's key revoked. As such, this is not a generally useful solution. AACS remains secure, and at best, we may see individual keys available for certain pressings of certain discs. This approach will never provide general playback as DeCSS does.
However, it is my understanding that the decryption process can be done by the TPM; once this is supported, the problem will be much more difficult. Make no mistake, the battle has only just begun. Before long, software based attacks may be rendered impossible.
Damn! I think there must be at least 3 different "scene releases" of Serenity in various flavors of high-def by now (1080i mpeg2 cropped to 16:9, 1080i mpeg2 OAR, 1080i h264 and 25fps OAR) So now there will yet another version floating around the net soon. These greedy pirates, always double-dipping or worse to try and get people to download the same movie multiple times!
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
1. Porn goes for HD-DVD
2. HD-DVD encryption is broken
3. The Pirate Bay will buy a country
Put them together and you have pirated porn in HD. Note to self: add KY Jelly and a pack of kleenex to the shopping list.
After all folks, it is stunning 1920x1080 (2Mpix) video with one crazy bitrate and over 20GB of data. I thinks its finally worth buying one, especially when the quality and technology (finally) matches the price tag here.
comedy awards? This is hilarious. Spending all that money on DRM, implementing new media, only to have the encryption cracked before launch day (practically) must be like trying to nail jello to the wall using $100,000 nails. (Has Mythbusters tried nailing jello to a wall yet?)
The real question is not how they will respond, but when will they learn?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Not every use of a copyrighted work is fair. BackupHDDVD is just as useful to pirates.
While true, irrelevant.
It matters that you can hunt and overthrow the government with the gun, not that you can use the gun to rob a liquor store.
Well, no. Bad analogy, because knowledge of a gun doesn't equal posession. In the case of DRM, knowledge of the keys means "ding, dong, the witch is dead".
There was lots of porn on Beta, but that is because anyone could record Beta due to the nature of the tape. Anyone can NOT record BluRay. In order to get a disc mastered, you have to go thru a Sony-authorized mastering service and they've been told NO PORN.
I also feel the studios are more interested in a token attempt. The encryption, even when broken, protects against the vast majority of that type of piracy. The geek market that is capable of doing that is so small it is almost negligible. They just have to go thru the motions to make sure the rest of the public keeps thinking "this is too hard to bother with, unless you are a basement-living uber-geek with no life". The big problem is the counterfeit discs that are mass-produced.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
BackupHDDVD.zip
Don't be surprised if the response is to no longer allow PC software decoders for media formats.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I really doubt that Blu-Ray is dead or has been killed, but I do think a lot of Sony's recent decisions (Root-Kit, Laptop Battery Fire, Lik-Sang Lawsuit, and PS3 Price) have made many potential consumers very angry.
Ultimately, in 24 months every HD-DVD player will play Blu-Ray movies and the 'format war' will have been a massive waste.
'' HDCP is the biggest crime in consumer history yet, let's hope this development kills it before it really takes of. ''
Every time I read a rant about HDCP, I conclude that customers (and content providers as well) have not the slightest clue what HDCP does.
At some point, after all the decryption, decoding, filtering and whatever else is done, your computer must send a signal to the monitor, which the monitor then translates into an image that you can see. This signal usually comes out of the DVI connector in your computer, goes into a cable, which feeds into the monitor or TV. Our paranoid friends at the MPAA or whatever abbreviation it is are afraid that you could catch the signal coming out of the video card, and record it.
Truth is, you can't. You just can't record a signal of 1920 x 1080 pixel times 12 bit per pixel times 60 frames per second on a harddisk. Well, I can't and no normal consumer can. There are people who could build stuff that could do it, but those people are probably happily building graphics cards for NVidia and ATI, or building DVD players.
Still, that signal had to be encrypted. So you have a chip just before the DVI chip (or integrated into it), and another chip in your TV, and they can negotiate to decide on a key for a cipher stream, and use that cipher stream to encrypt the signal on one end and decrypt it on the other end. Which means you can't record the signal coming out of your computer and turn it into a DVD. However, this has nothing to do with DRM whatsoever. Once this encryption is turned on, it stays turned on until the computer or the monitor are turned off. So if you read slashdot after watching a DVD, everything you see on the screen has gone through encryption and decryption. Doesn't matter, because you couldn't read the signal from the cable anyway.
Where the real effort is: First, the graphics driver has to check constantly that encryption works properly. That is not to make sure you don't steal the video signal (as long as encryption is turned on, you can't, and encryption doesn't turn itself off), it is because if the video card and monitor run out of sync then you will see nothing but snow on the monitor, and that makes for a very very unhappy customer. Second, all the commands from the OS to the driver are encrypted, and status reported by the driver is encrypted as well. Otherwise, a hacker could just pretend to be the OS and tell the graphics card to turn encryption off - and that's it! No, most of the work is not the encryption, but to make sure that the OS always knows whether encryption is turned on or off. And third, a DVD can request that high resolution is only used with encryption, so if the HDCP chip isn't there, the image is scaled down to lower resolution.
All in all, the whole HDCP stuff is complete nonsense. It prevents an attack from thieves in a place where you wouldn't attack. It costs money to add and implement. It doesn't hurt you as a consumer, except that you have to pay for the damned chips. It creates work for device driver writers. It doesn't protect contents. Anyone who can record 200 MB per second from a DVI output has invested some serious money, and a little bit more money will allow you to break into a monitor and get the signal from there.
Executive summary: If you can't record a signal coming from the DVI cable, HDCP doesn't matter. If you can record a signal coming from the DVI cable, HDCP doesn't matter much either.
is never underestimate a hardcore geek with a little equipment and a decent block of vacation time....
people have been xeroxing books for like 40 years and nobody ever made such a stink as the mpaa and riaa have. their whole thing is so wrongheaded, if they would spend all those legal fees and lawyer salaries on hiring better directors/writers/actors their profits would skyrocket. its not piracy that loses them profits, it's SHITTY PRODUCTS.
sometimes, i wonder if i'm the only conservative on teh intarweb. ah well, back to mah hogs and warmongerin'....
Heh, somehow tagging this article with "nelson" seems appropriate... :-p
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Even if they one day develop a perfect DRM scheme full of unbreakable secure paths, it won't be possible to avoid someone simply removing the actual LCD screen, wiring the signals instructing which pixels should turn on and off to a 3rd party device, and recording the unencrypted content in raw format.
No piracy is being stopped by these means. They're and will always be utterly useless.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
Everyone seems to be missing the point. Existing titles are chump change. Just make the next pressing with the new key. The flurry seems to center around release dates anyway, so no future discs will decode on the compromised player. They don't want to make it impossible, they simply want to make it difficult. Having to keep a key database updated is a pain in the ass. I'd go as far as to say that they don't care about an isolated crack - they'll "fix" it and go on, with updates from time to time. This is a s/w player, not a hardware player, correct? Just require an update.
The point is that they will make this about Piracy, and that its the Pirate's fault that you have to go download an update to get your machine to work. Not their fault (Say "Not my fault" in David Spade's voice an you'll get the idea). Most consumers will believe the newsvertisement they see on ther local station that blames those evil pirates for their suffering. If it weren't for the pirates, their stuff would work. Which can easily be spun at truth - pirates cracked the system, system must be safe or poor artists children will starve, so we had to change the system - all pirates fault. Your mother would fall for that, and you know it.
Right and wrong is irrelevant - it's who takes the blame for the mess that matters, and the industry has a lot of PR money to make sure the finger points at someone else.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
You're using her as bait, Master!
everyone knows, the only key you can't crack is the key that is not.
Do not. Touch. Down.
What about the early adopters, who bought high-end video cards without HDCP, or very nice HDTVs, also witohut HDCP? They now have to pray that somebody (Sony?) sees the light and doesn't trip the "artificially cripple old HDTVs" flag.
So, because the MPAA is afraid of an attack that isn't feasable, and may never be, they are forcing early to buy new hardware (for no good reason). I can't help but wonder if this wasn't a simple money grab -- force everyone to upgrade so they pay you twice for the same hardware.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Sure you can: take output from computer a), feed into hdtv card on computer b), compress to mpeg2, store on disk. And btw, it is 24bit per pixel, 30 fps (non-interlaced), but the figures come out the same.
Firewire deck + Firewire hard drive + Mac = instant recordability for less than $1000. I'm sure it can be done for cheaper.
The TPM does slow public key authentication. It doesn't have the throughput to do high data rate AES which is what's necessary to decrypt the video stream.
Test your net with Netalyzr
Perhaps you could somehow split the data to a network of computers. If you had 10 computers, could they write the signal to disk in pieces and then recombine them later?
For when any of these services get killed, let the record state that:D .zip)= c9f28f76ff4f1a8bfe74fa963466e8483da95effB ackupHDDVD.zip)= 661a12808e64ec516b1eb9e493bf5de4a08223f2ee4258735d aa6a382a1d2e1fbe4b732bebd4133e5af0d968c0904d310f73 40e63edab7b69e1948b08z ip)= 4860e9248663d52dc47bfc98d61ec6d7D VD.zip)= COD1504ECJM52QOUN7I97FQTSIG848VITP15GSQTL9L3GAGT5O FRSIRJ5FLT84PUBBODIQ60I16J23RJ83J3TMLNMQF1II5GGFEI C5O.COTARKV5PLT8MFC6EP PO6AEFF75S439R2T731ODI37MP0HM3TQ27266N6FMK4PS8SDLC KNE3UIPD8
MD5(BackupHDDVD.zip)= 484a73b61fb795d84e11d72614f77db0
SHA1(BackupHDDV
SHA512(
3dd2617
ED2K(BackupHDDVD.
GNUNET(BackupHD
BDF83IMEJI74A3H0QNTGMEGDS6
Truth is, you can't. You just can't record a signal of 1920 x 1080 pixel times 12 bit per pixel times 60 frames per second on a harddisk
Yes, surely you can. For a start it's approximately 30 frames a second (it's 60 fields a second). That gives you a stream of:
(1920 * 1080 * 12 * 30) / (1024*1024) = ~ 712 Mib/s (megabits per second) or
about 89 MiB/s.
I would have though an array of high speed reasonably standard disk drives could handle that quite easily, after all consumer SATA drives have a theoretical 1.5 Gib/s interface.
No, you can't. Pretty much all "HDTV cards" are taking already-encoded streams from off-air HD stations and basically extracting it into a file on your hard drive. However, if you know of a low-cost capture card that can handle HD-res DVI/HDMI, then by all means feel free to enlighten us.
The GP is correct. If you can actually capture DVI in realtime, then you're probably inside the industry already, where no form of copy protection can prevent leaks.
Also, especially referring to 1080p TVs, regardless of the signal stored on the disk, the output is pretty much 1920x1080x60fps. And, if anything, it's probably 32bpp between device and monitor.
FC Closer
Actually you can already buy DVI capturing cards capable of recoding 1600x1200x60:7 0.php
http://www.fi-llc.com/boards/Products/AccuStream1
Real-time recoding of HDTV videos is not that far away on consumer PCs either. I doubt that it would be a problem in 5 years.
So if there was no HDCP, and there was no way to get the compressed signal, capturing the data would become a viable option.
Can't stop the signal.
I aim to misbehave.
Let's be bad guys.
Has the same thing been done for Blu-Ray yet? I would like to see DRM on both systems being shown as being useless.
:-) Makes me wonder if it's possible they'll do this with HD-DVD, or if it has reached critical mass alraedy, so to speak.
I agree, although it would be more amusing to me if Blu-ray DRM was broken with various key extraction algorithms in about 6 months or so, for it to reach the market better and give them less hope to just change details in the standard as a worst case scenario.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Well, you could place a hardware MPEG-2 or WMV or whatever codec the video is encoded in so that you'll have a 10 MB/s instead of a 200 MB/s stream. Quality will drop, but the system will work pretty much the way FairPlay can be broken.
It is true that the data rate is too high for recording it right now but they have to think of the future. I'm sure that 200 MB per second won't seem so high in a few years. It is also possible that dedicated hardware could compress it and make the data rate more manageable. What I find outrageous about HDCP is that they went through all that effort to plug certain security holes they imagined while other obvious holes, such as the current attack on HD-DVD are wide open. This makes it a total waste of money and effort which inconveniences customers and makes pirated video better than purchased video. What were they thinking?
According to the Wikipedia article the DVI specification does indeed have a colour depth of 24 bits per pixel.
So I have to take a HDCP chip out of some TV that got a Wii hole in the screen, not a big problem if I was going to go through the trouble to make some dedicated copying rig. But I think that's the real value here, to discourage the casual copies, and add another layer of "criminal activity" to anyone that does make a copy.
We are all just people.
Actually, I've more commonly seen it referred to Digital Restrictions Management. I think the term Digital Rights Management is just the publishers attempt to put a positive spin on something that is fundamentally designed to impose restrictions on your use of the content. The accepted and common meaning of the abbreviation of course will be determined in due time.
It hurts the consumer a lot. The encryption handshaking makes switching between video sources cause long pauses/ glitches, and is unreliable. Things like unplugging a cable can cause your device to think that it is being subverted, forcing it (for instance) to stop outputting hd (comcast cable boxes are prone to this).
Disney will be Blu-ray only which pretty much guarantees its success, Betamax didn't lose because of porn (it lost because of short running time), and porn these days is already free on the Internet.
"Sufferin' succotash."
"What were they thinking?"
**AA & Co's brain-licenses were revoked some versions ago.
I also feel the studios are more interested in a token attempt. The encryption, even when broken, protects against the vast majority of that type of piracy. The geek market that is capable of doing that is so small it is almost negligible.
It only takes one individual to break the encryption and post the results to the wild to throw your entire argument into the trash.
bork bork bork!
your premise about needing to record 200MB/s is incorrect because it doesn't need to be played back at 60fps in order to make a copy! set your player to play at, say, 1/10th speed and suddenly you only have to record 20MB/s. sure, the RIP process takes 10x as long but, really, big deal.
Actually, the reverse engineering crowd won round 1. Round 2 is people violating copyright claiming fair use. What happens next is pretty predictable -- the MPAA's lawyers get involved, most of the violators were wrong and get hit up for a few grand (surprise surprise), everyone on /. bitches and moans about The Man putting them down while not rising off their pasty asses to actually do anything about it, and the reverse engineers pray to $DEITY that rest of the world gets on with more important things and doesn't sue them too.
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
"or to people who have monitors capable of displaying full resolution HD content, but are not permitted to because of a lack of HDCP"
It's interesting to know just how recently HDCP-capable devices became available.
While my new monitor supports HDCP, my (relatively) new Dell E1705 does not (at least for external devices, PowerDVD Advisor seems to think the internal screen is OK for whatever reason), and it's less than a year old.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
What I want to know is, who are the people selling DRM technology to the MPAA? Somebody has to be *developing* this stuff, somebody with a fairly decent understanding of crypto to know about revocation, n-way decryption keys, and so on. This tech isn't being developed by the lawyers and the other suits. Are these programmers a bunch of idiots?
Or are they in fact geniuses?
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
RE: sony problems.
add to that a MASSIVE camera sensor failure PR mess.
canon cams, 1 or 2 pany cams and a whole bunch of other cams that use sony sensors are on the recall list due to, well, sensor failures. even as far back as a few yrs old models.
sony has not been doing well the last few years...
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
But their TVs are fine, and also use linux!
9/11 Eyewitnesses to Explosive WTC Demolition 1 of 2
More like 3.0 Gib/s (SATA2), but either way, it doesn't matter, modern consumer hard drives can't write faster than ~40M/sec. But if you put 2 or 3 of those consumer drives in RAID 0, you shouldn't have much trouble at all writing 89M/s, especially if you compress the signal before dumping it to disk. In a couple years it'll be even easier.
Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
How does this have anything to do with "fair use"? You already had the ability to play these discs in any HD-DVD player. And you had the ability to copy the videos to other forms (iPod, DivX, WMV, whatever) through the analog hole. So having the keys gives you no extra "fair use" ability. The only thing it gives you is the ability to make "backups", which we all know is 99.999999% used to pirate.
So call it like it is.
What would happen if the "industry" responded by saying, "Fuck it. We'll just release DVDs. We make plenty of money with those. No more high-def disc releases, since you guys pirate them anyway". Would that make you happy?
What the MPAA et al. fails to recognize is that the movie pirates that does it for money will get around any encoding technology as they like. It can be bribery, threats or industrial espionage. No holes barred, and the only persons that will suffer are the end users. Large-scale movie piracy gangs will be the Al Capone's of the 21:st century because they have the means and manners to get around anything. So the best idea is to actually find another way around how to resolve the copyright and fair use problem.
The modern problem is that copies of data doesn't degrade at each copy. If that was the problem (as old analog magnetic tapes like VHS and music cassettes) the copyright problem wouldn't be as big. Those who wanted the best quality bought the best thing and those who couldn't afford either used a copy or went to a friend. Today each copy is as good as the original. No degradation whatsoever. Only thing missing is the CD cover and inlays. This brings up the point that those who do movie piracy by filming in the movie theater will by default create a copy that is of a lower quality than the original thing, so calling for imprisonment there seems to be a great overkill. Just confiscate the equipment and let them go. Repeated felonies may be prosecuted, but overdoing that part seems to be a waste of money and resources - the big leaks are on digital media.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
They could take a more drastic approach, and simply revoke the keys to all software players, since software players are too easy to extract keys from. The already cracked discs would still be available for piracy, but further discs wouldn't be playable on anything but hardware. That would definitely suck, and would render the "victory" as Pyrrhic.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
It lost because it confused consumers.
No one understood what L-250, L-500, L-750 meant except that L-750 should be better than L-500.
Add to the fact that Beta 3 material wasn't compatible 100% with Beta 2 machines and vice versa.
6 hour tapes made sense.
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
$3,000 and Windows only. Wow.
This card probably won't be Vista compatible due to it's nature.
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
Unfortunately, dismissing the porn industry is what killed the technically superior Betamax. Without it, all they have is the rabid PS3 fans to bolster their film sales - and that's only if the gamers want to take a minute to watch a movie.
110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
Seriously, the more and more I read about "fair use" on Slashdot in conjonction with DRM for DVDs, HD-DVDs and Blu-Ray, the more I can't help but think that it's an euphemism for "piracy". Seriously, stop kidding yourselves. The majority of people who rip and burn movies are pirating them, not practicing their fair use right to show clips in schools or make backup copies.
I would like to see DVDs, en masse, released in a dual layer setup, where layer 1 is standard DVD (for backward compatibility), and layer 2 is the HD-DVD version. That would let the movie companies sneak the new format in utilizing the existing install base.
That this isn't being done just shows how flipping stupid the content industry can be.
110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
Not every use of a woman is fair. Viagra is just as useful for rapists.
Why is viagra not illegal and why is BackupHDDVD illegal? Especially when one affects your morals and your feeling of justice where the other explicitly hinders something you should get according to some part of another law?
Sure you can. And if you're going to say that you can't pipe HDMI into a computer, you'd be wrong there, too
t y/
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensi
Voila! One PCI-Express HDMI capture card. And no, it doesn't do HDCP (Yet), but considering how fast AACS has been bypassed, how long will it be before someone makes a Linux driver for this that decodes/bypasses the HDCP encryption?
Oh, and if you're worried about processing time, now you know what those AMD 4x4 boards (With dual quad processors when they come out, and stacks of RAM) are for. Capture to a high-speed RAID0 buffer (At a guess - SATA for 1080i, U320 SCSI for 720p, or fibre channel for 1080p), then have your 8 CPU cores using a multi-threaded codec to compress into MPEG/XviD/H.264/Your-choice-of-codec-here and store the completed file on a big RAID5 (750Gb drives, anyone?)
How long before MythTV has been upgraded for this kind of thing? It's exactly Myth's remit, after all.
Naah, it was a communication error. It was supposed to be called Digital Rights Manhandling.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
"By admitting DRM is useless and treating customers like clients instead of criminals?"
Customers shouldn't be treated like criminals, but they shouldn't act like criminals either. Many "customers" act as criminals then bitch and moan when they're being treated as such.
What is needed is a DRM that is advanced enough to be flexible enough to allow all "fair use" while curtailing piracy. That would be the ideal. But the reality is that DRM isn't advanced enough and won't be any time soon, if ever. So the best would be to get rid of DRM altogether. But please do NOT pretend that DRM is broken primarily for "fair use". It's broken for piracy over torrents and P2P and warez sites. In other words, it's broken for "criminal" activity, so I seen no reason why those engaged in such should be treated as "criminals".
Note: I put "criminal" in quotes, because copyright infringement is actually a "civil" offense rather than "criminal", in the US. Unless one pirates more than $1000 worth of works in 180 days, in which case it does become "criminal".
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Yeah, capturing uncompressed HDTV is beyond consumers now. Capturing RAW CD-quality digital audio was beyond the computers we had a while ago too. In 10 years RAW HDTV capture should be quite doable.
Although it definitely is possible to capture this amount of data, the -average- consumer won't be able to utilize it. And don't forget that the best way to crunch the data down for disk access is to encode it in runtime. So the real requirement for hi-def capture is probably along the lines of a 4 x striped array with hardware codec encoder that supports 1920x1080.
This is all feasible, but its a solution for the commercial pirates, not ordinary people. Plus, there have already been 'HDMI decoder' breakouts that were available a while back. As long as HDMI is performed by 'a chip', some enterprising hacker is going to start ripping those chips out of of cheap HDMI receivers to make pass through adapters which are sold to pirates that could afford this costly endeavor.
Oh and when you're capturing, unless you have a DVI capture card (do these exist?), you'll need to convert the signal to analog. In which case, you'd probably want to consider oversampling by 2x just to make sure you got the right frame timing which would double the bit rate requirements.
Bye!
How long is it going to be before PowerDVD or WinDVD is patched to stop the leaky key? Congratulations, you can play "Serenity" on your Myth Box. Will you be able to play "Return of the King?". Or "Children of Men?" Or "Empire Strikes Back?"
DeCSS was important because the encryption algorithm was unknown. This? All it does is demonstrate that if the keys are known, the disc can be decrypted. Big Deal. That's how every encryption algorithm works. That's how every well designed lock is supposed to work. If you have the key, you can enter. If you don't have the key, you shouldn't be able to open the lock, even with the help of detailed diagrams and specialized tools.
Televisons have had hdcp for a good long time. I suppose it took the computer industry some time to catch up--probably because no one was daft enough to think that encrypting the video link from a computer was terribly useful.
You just can't record a signal of 1920 x 1080 pixel times 12 bit per pixel times 60 frames per second on a harddisk.
30 frames/second, not 60. Anyway, that's 1920x1080x1.5 bytes/frame, just over 3 megabytes/frame. About 93 megabytes per second with zero compression. Reasonably modern hardware on a RAID 0 or RAID 5 setup should do that easily, or any modern SCSI drive system. Heck, you can buy off-the-shelf Firewire-B external drive systems capable of that. And disk subsystems aren't getting any slower (unless you're saddled with crappy drivers and filesystems at the software level.)
That said, I pretty much agree with your conclusion.
-- Alastair
Aye, my MythTV backend with the disk dump has two 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drives in a RAID 0 array. The frontend has three HDTV capture cards(two HD-5500 & one HD-3000). A Lowly 100mbps full-duplex network link between the two boxes.
I'm able to record three HD streams at once via nfs(nfs ver3, ver4 cause kernel panic under that load). Playback of one of the three streams while it is being recorded isn't do-able but recording two and watching an earlier(yet to be transcoded) one all at the same time works.
An hour of 1080i is a little shy of 8.5GB. The network link is the bottleneck in my setup, the disk array handles the task without a problem.
If the govt becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law, it invites man to become his own law, it invites anarchy
Yeah. Someday I'll write a post simultaneously defending the private possession of military grade weaponry as an insurance policy against tyranny, and proposing the canonization of RMS-- and all of those karma points will come rushing back.
You just can't record a signal of 1920 x 1080 pixel times 12 bit per pixel times 60 frames per second on a harddisk.
Erm. Excuse me? There's even consumer-level hardware to do exactly that: Blackmagic Design's HDMI capture card - $249
i fixed it for you:
so we know that 1 second of a 1080i stream is 1920 * 1080 * 24 * 30 bits. that comes out to 1,492,992,000 b/s.
for the raw uncompressed stream that comes to the following:
1,492,992 kb/s (kilobit - bits/1000)
~1,493 mb/s (megabit - kb/1000)
~1.5 gb/s (gigabit - mb/1000)
186,624,000 B/s (Byte - bits/8)
182,250 KiB/s (KibiByte - B/1024)
~178 MiB/s (MebiByte - KiB/1024)
this doesn't even take into account audio (are they still using 16 bit samples 44,440 times a second?)
get your terms right, and the math will follow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix
Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
This may be a good way to show that lack of DRM will make HD-DVD more successful than Blu Ray. Combine this with HD-DVD's more pr0n-friendly attitude, and it is clear that Sony is really in trouble.
If I can't get the crack printed as a Perl script on a T-shirt, I ain't interested.
~
HD-DVD was cracked by the Blu-Ray crowd!
I'm sure the porn thing didn't help, but what really killed Betamax in the early days was the shorter length of the tapes. Sony refused to back down on this and add a "long-play" mode until it was too late.
They did tie up the pro crowd however, I had the pleasure of using one of their BetaCAM's in the 90's and it was a lovely piece of kit.
I am NaN
The DMCA only applies to the US, it doesn't apply to those outside the US.
That's what you think, bucko!
"The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
I'm not sure you got your terms right because mb = millibit and gb = gram*bit.
I don't think anyone has ever used a sampling rate of 44440 Hz unless their audio clock was way off. 44100 is a standard audio rate, although high-def TV (and presumably DVD) uses 48000.
How long is it going to be before PowerDVD or WinDVD is patched to stop the leaky key?
What are they going to do? Issue new keys through software updates? Some clever people are going to make an OpenSourceDVD player that can read the Microsoft updates and extract the new keys.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
it does trash the original book.
& satitle=qcm-1200ep herals/scanners/workgroup/fi-5120c.html
I have one of these
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40
and one of these
http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/computing/peri
and I can cut the spine off a book, and feed it through the scanner, and turn it into searchable PDF PDQ
I do this to search books for specific text.. research.. I haven't shared any files, but I'll bet I could have a new harry potter book scanned in & trackerable before stores even opened on the west coast...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
The difference being that a good paper book is definitely the best medium for reading. No e-book readers, no xeros, no audiobooks can replace it. Meanwhile what RIAA and MPAA are pushing as the "official standart" is about the worst there is. 6o minutes of music on a disk that won't fit in a pocket. Forced commercials before the movie. Disks preloaded with crapware that breaks your computer and makes them unplayable in car CD players. For many people the first thing after buying a CD is to rip it to mp3, upload to mp3 player and store the disk away, never returning to it. Who's to scan and OCR a newly-bought book and read it from their laptop?
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
But... but... it helped so much with UMD sales!
If AACS works like they said it would, the compromised software player won't be supported anymore, leaving 999,999 more keys still uncracked.
Well, first off you're assuming there's no such thing like a HDTV hardware encoder (after which you can store it on a plain non-raid HDD as far as bandwidth is concerned). Those chips are in sub-1000$ cameras, and you don't need lens, ccd, tape mechanism or any other fancy electronics, just the encoder chip. Probably a few hundred dollars at most, really.
Secondly, raw capture is certainly possible. Full HDTV is about 1.5Gbps (HD-SDI used for uncompressed HDTV interlinks for example). Then you can throw in some very light lossless capture codec like huffyuv who'll covert to YUV2 (half the bits) and compress it 2:1 again on any normal CPU, and you're down to ~360Mbps, or 45MB/s. Hell, I capture 25MB/s from my DV camera on a regular basis. 45MB/s would take a fancier disk like a Raptor X or a RAID 0, but then again RAID 0 is standard on pretty much every mobo I've seen.
No, it's not that pretty... but if you were a slightly dedicated pirate (remember, they think they're going to stop everyone) then setting up this is hardly excessive. The only thing that's not in common circulation is in fact a DVI *in* port.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Doesn't all this encryption and decryption consumer quite a bit of power?
How can a video card/monitor have all this additional computing horsepower and still be called "Energy Star" compliant?
Seems like a waste of power to me.
Once this encryption is turned on, it stays turned on until the computer or the monitor are turned off. So if you read slashdot after watching a DVD, everything you see on the screen has gone through encryption and decryption. Doesn't matter, because you couldn't read the signal from the cable anyway.
Does this mean KVMs won't work for DVI connections with HDCP?
128 bits can be hidden quite well in a 50 Megabyte download.
Except you're recording the original compressed stream, not the HDMI or DVI uncompressed output.
And really, you want to copy the compressed stream. If you copied the uncompressed data, you'd have to recompress it to make it useful and make it lossy to reduce the size.
Unless you are able to get that data to an analog recordable medium with sufficient fidelity.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Truth is, you can't. You just can't record a signal of 1920 x 1080 pixel times 12 bit per pixel times 60 frames per second on a harddisk. Well, I can't and no normal consumer can. There are people who could build stuff that could do it, but those people are probably happily building graphics cards for NVidia and ATI, or building DVD players.
You absolutely can record 1080i composite video. You need a $1000 capture card and a roughly $2500 SATA array. But that'll be cheaper as time goes on. It's true that there aren't many uses for 300MB/s throughput right now, but the progression is inevitable. In 2-3 years, recording HD composite video will be as mundane as recording SD is today. Perhaps by then composite video will be the exception, but alienating the large numbers of consumers (most of them early adopters) who own very expensive composite input equipment may not be such a good idea.
Yeah, because that worked sooo well with the DIgital Video eXpress (DIVX) format.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
When speaking of stand alone video signals, there's no difference between 24bpp and 32bpp, since the extra 8bpp is an alpha channel, and in almost all instances can be dropped, unless for some reason you were layering two or more signals on one device.
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
The DRM technology is just a tool. The point is that what it's being used to prevent is different.
For example, the standard DRM used on DVDs inhibits copying. I can, however, put my DVD in any standard DVD player, or in my computer running whatever OS, and watch my movie/TV show/whatever. The most annoying things for many people are the disabling of user controls while the DVD runs trailers and copyright warnings, and the region coding, neither of which is really a copy protection issue per se.
With the HD stuff, on the other hand, the copy protection will get in the way even if you just want to watch your legally purchased movie. For example, if your new HDTV cost you $2,000 but dates from pre-HDPC-as-standard days (which really isn't that long ago) then your new HD-DVD or Blu-ray player isn't going to give you full-res output and you might as well have just bought the DVD. Don't even mention all the crap that's going into locking down Vista, inevitably a futile gesture that will be cracked anyway, but which will annoy a lot of legitimate users in the meantime by deliberately screwing up the video quality or blocking the audio output.
I predict, with considerable confidence, that if the big studios, Microsoft and everyone else involved push forward down this path, they will suffer the consumer backlash they have been avoiding so far. This is simply a matter of market forces. Upsetting the geeks who run Linux or want to duplicate the content onto another disk without the ads only gets a relatively small proportion of the market. Cutting off everyone with an HDTV older than a year or two -- basically, telling them that by being early adopters, they wasted their money, because they're never going to watch HD movies on that TV -- and screwing with the most popular desktop OS on the planet in a similar way? Those are going to have repercussions.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
I think you miss the point. On-line distribution is a reality, and is not realistically going to stop. Therefore, in the long run, it will be more profitable for Big Media to take advantage of this. Things move slowly, but eventually businesses do get it, as iTMS and the like demonstrate. Why do you think anything different will happen with movies and the like?
Similarly, markets tend to accept crap for a while, but after a few years they get bored of putting up with it. Then a consumer backlash occurs, resulting in either a change in the products available or an exodus from the market. Just ask cinemas how business is going since large TVs and DVD players became common at home.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
How does this have anything to do with "fair use"? You already had the ability to play these discs in any HD-DVD player.
No, you don't. Put an HDDVD drive in your PC, and more likely than not it will refuse to play, because your system components don't support setting up an encrypted communication channel between the software player and your monitor. Frankly, I don't have the money to spend on a new video card and monitor, and don't see why I should when there is no technical reason to do so. It is "fair use" to be able to play the video from media you have bought fairly. And when the copyright holder tries to stop me from doing so, because he happens to *not like* the computer I want to do it on, I don't see why I should listen.
The point of HDCP is that they need to stop anybody from doing it. There are enough people with lots of movie and time to burn buying and setting up kit to do realtime DVI/HDMI stream capturing. It only takes one person to do this for a movie, stick it on the net and everyone can get it. HDCP is to try and stop EVERYONE, not just consumers but everyone from copying it. HDCP sucks for consumers because it means your 3 month old £3000 50" LCD TV might not be able to play movies in 2-3 years time because some monkey for a media company and some monkey from the TV companies have had a meeting and decided they want people to buy new TVs again. Similar to Microsoft giving the finger to all PlaysForSure customers with the Zune.
Other countries have counterparts to the DMCA.
The third thing is that the website is http://www.doom9.org/ , not doom9.com.Because if it were, wouldn't Id Software get upset?
Of course they're "reparations". Humanitarian relief is intended to help "repair" Korea after its Civil War of the early 1950s.
Even if they revoke the keys used (which were NOT included in the source) it doesn't matter. The keys are located in the same place on every disk, if you can grab them from memory once you can do it again. As long as someone keeps providing the most recent batch of movies released, anyone with the experiance can grab new keys at any time and update the program.
I know other posters have already pointed out that you can in fact record the bitrate of a DVI port quite easily, even at 1080p, I would like to add that it only takes one to break the system. One lone guy with the means and willingness to build the hardware and rip movies, and the nature of the internet will take care of the rest.
Piracy prevention in this day and age is like a balloon, as soon as there is a single hole, no matter how small, the system on the whole is screwed.
FYI, I put your numbers into a calculator here:
http://tinyurl.com/ydzspv
You can play around with different refresh rates, color depth, etc.
The answer: Blu-Ray.
I wouldn't be surprised if Sony were behind the cracking of HD-DVD.
It'd be more than dual layer -- a typical DVD is already dual layer. There are both single and dual layer versions of HD-DVD, but it memory serves, the "second layer" is accessed by flipping the disc rather than changing laser focus.
OTOH, that's mostly details -- from a technical viewpoint, been demonstrated and could be produced -- and at some point, probably will be. The real reason it's not being done is almost certainly financial. To sell, this combined format would need to be competitive with normal DVDs, but the disc is undoubtedly more expensive to manufacture. They want the opposite: instead of selling you a single disc at a reduced profit margin, they'd rather sell you a DVD and then later sell you an HD-DVD of the same content -- both with inflated profit margins.
Given that it's technically feasible, chances are it'll happen eventually -- but I'd bet it happens only when the market for SD DVDs starts to shrink to the point that it no longer justifies producing them separately anymore.
The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
Obviously, the only solution to the Analog hole is Digital Eyeballs. Everyone needs to have their eyes replaced with suitably DRM encumbered devices that are uncrackable. Then the high definition TV can be fed directly to your brain, the connection will be secure, and the MPAA will be rich!!!
It just struck me:
:)
1. Capturing full HD content is very hard.
2. Unencrypted HD content gets scaled down.
3. Capturing downscaled content is not so hard.
4. ?
Did they really intend this?
Meme of the day: I browse "Disable Sigs: Checked". So should you.
So I guess we have a winner!
First point: Hackability Blue Ray: 0 HD: 1
Second point: Pr0n Blue Ray: 0 HD: 1
Final score: Blue Ray: 0 HD: 2
Well I think we have a winner!
Thanks for making it easy Sony.
I think Sony's new motto should be "Sony: Give us a few months and we can kill a format"
K Man
Linux users whose computers don't come with the software automatically will just choose Applications->Add/Remove Software and choose "HDCrack", which by then will be a graphical frontend for mplayer. Mplayer and the cracking software will be downloaded automagically and probably will access a network of online database of title keys hosted in openness friendly countries. Thereafter when they insert a supported HD-DVD, it will just play. It will, as usual, contain ripping software for translating the content into a more accessible, device shiftable and back-up possible format.
When you run Windows, freely available (and commercial) software (and even sometimes simple media!) often comes with evil code. Linux users usually don't have to deal with that. Linux users can use trusted repositories and the free choices available are an embarassment of riches. The question isn't if the software is available, but which package best suits your goal. Access to this global pool of application resources is built in to the standard interface on most distributions.
It must be tough to be a Windows only user these days. All that going to the store and giving your credit card number to anonymous websites and all... Not knowing whether you're installing something that works, doesn't work, crashes your computer or is just a trojan horse program that surrenders your computer to anonymous remote control whether you paid for it or not. So sad. And the OS comes with absolutely no real applications, except of course the world's least secure browser. And that's just the stuff you install on purpose. Stuff that installs itself unbidden or hacks that come preinstalled by the OEM (without an OS-Only install CD!) are an entirely different level of sad.
Don't worry, though. The world understands. They expect less of you because of the poverty of your tools.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
You don't need to record at 200 MB/sec. All you need to do is advance your player one frame at a time and dump a SINGLE frame at a time onto your harddrive. No serious money needed. Write a macro to advance frames and boom, you have an uncompressed video on your $80 hard drive ready to be compressed.
You haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. No matter how well coded, any information used by a program is available to someone determined to extract it.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are cruchy and good with ketchup.
I'm not totally up on all this stuff (some, but not all.) What about this: I copy a HD-DVD to my harddrive. Then I find the decryption key for it. I decrypt it and convert it to another format. Couldn't I then distribute it without them knowing what player was used?
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Many people have gotten used to being able to casually record what they wish. If new DRM measures frustrate them enough, then the market for the dedicated pirates will expand.
.iso & play that, or (c) use on-the-fly CSS removal software.
I have HDTV cable service, but cannot get HD from my cable box to my Media Center PC. If some cable channel runs a High Def program that I'd like to *timeshift* in HD, well, tough.
Due to Media Center DRM, I also cannot play CSS encrypted DVDs to my HDTV unless I (a) set the resolution down to 480i, (b) decrypt the DVD to an
So here, without even wanting access to any content I haven't paid for, I'm part of the market for DRM-defeating devices & software. With the direction the MAFIAA is making things go, I'm not far from being part of the market for pirated Dual Layer DVDs with high-def XviDs or MP4s of my favorite content. I pay my cable bill, my premium channel fees, my HD service fees, and my Netflix subscription. Basically, I've payed for just about every version of any media content that's available, so these draconian DRM measures are accomplishing little more than making me lose respect for content providers.
Pi Ran Out
"What would happen if the "industry" responded by saying, "Fuck it. We'll just release DVDs. "
That is clearly their right to do that. What would happen if they said "Hey, all those dirty pirates, we're not releasing anything in DVD ever again, much less hi-def formats"
But what would "happen" is they'd make less money. As I said earlier, the MPAA doesn't care about copyright infringement in the sense that they feel it hurts moral rights of content owners. They care because it makes less money.
Their attempts at copy protection of discs are not an attempt to stop piracy, rather they are attempt to increase sales and revenue. What I mean is that if the industry feels that 10% of all movie content is pirated, and copy protection changes that to 8%, they do the math to determine which gets them more money (since copy protection costs them money). If they make enough additional revenue to justify the cost they do it.
Do you see my point? They certainly could stop selling hi-def content, they could stop licensing of software to play back on PCs but the effect would be to endanger adoption of their pet format and ultimately less money. So they won't do those things.
At the risk of being a broken record, copy protection is not a moral crusade, it is simply a route to more revenue.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
You weren't moderated into oblivion because of bias. You were moderated into oblivion because everyone who reads this site has heard that argument (baseball bats are useful to murderers!) and already knows it's bunk.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
This is Game Over for all released movies, no matter if AACS-LA revokes everything. Any successful attacker can put the decrypted movie on Internet.
Perhaps it's not killed yet, but it's only a matter of time. Not only it's coming from a company with very poor business ethics (like you've pointed out), but there's also countless other issues with Blu-Ray:
/. articles about this too
-overpriced players (including the PS3), and those players had bad reviews when they came out (hardware problems) - there were
-expensive for DVD media producers to retool, and very expensive blank media
-uses Java for menus and stuff, which I fear will cause compatibility problems down the road (just like for mobile phones), and requires programmers, or a TOTAL change in DVD authoring apps (must generate Java code and compile it, or come with some slow interpreter written in Java, or hire highly paid Java programmers to make your menus or such)
-had problems with supporting some codecs at first (none of the initial released movies were using VC1, and had worse image quality than HD DVDs which were using it)
-no pr0n
-yet another Sony proprietary format nobody wants, and that always fail
-did I mention overpriced like other Sony stuff again?
-Won't allow dual format players (their only chance not to fail completely)
In comparison, HD DVD:
-has very cheap players (like the xbox 360 external drive that was like 150$ on special during the holidays, and can be hooked up to a normal PC)
-is cheaper for DVD making plants to retool, and the media is far cheaper
-uses very simple markup (very much like html and css) to create menus (and is even documented on MSDN, has examples, free tools and all). Easy to do even with notepad, and doesn't require such drastic changes in authoring tools
-supported VC1 right from the start (and used it, and resulted in better looking movies) - even MS has a free encoder for download!
-pr0n!
-can be decrypted using existing tools, i.e. no more DRM, and you can make backups and exercise your fair use rights, which is a HUGE bonus for lots of people (no need to upgrade your old component or DVI-only HDTV, video card, Windows OS, and computer hardware to support whatever monster required specs PowerDVD asks for and such, like a Dual Core CPU, high end video card and all that) -- with Blu-Ray you just gotta ditch your old 2500$ TV away and spend as much on a new one plus HDMI cables, you essentially have buy a new 2000$ PC and a 1000$ Blu-Ray drive (enjoy your DRM!), whereas with HD DVD you buy a 150$ xbox drive and you're done! And no DRM crap!
-HD DVD's encryption being broken, it will likely be supported under Linux (or VLC and such) pretty soon (unlike Blu-Ray)
-etc
It doesn't matter which way you look at it, HD DVD is better all around! Except perhaps for storage space, but it's largely irrelevant for movies, we can already store HD movies (@ 720p at least) in mpeg4 on plain old single layer DVDs. HD DVD provides more than enough for 1080i/p (and at moderate prices), so it's mostly pointless for Blu-Ray to have more (unless you want it as a PC backup/storage thing, but that's NOT what they want to use it for primarily).
Blu-Ray is dead. So very, very dead. In 2 years, nobody will even remember Blu-Ray, except as "yet another Sony format that failed" The battle is already over, and I'm buying a HD DVD player next month for my birthday.
Unless this public key authentication is of the list of drivers installed in your system, which the TPM also collects. The hash for kernel+video+codec isn't going to match the hash for kernel+video+cracked codec or kernel+cracked video+codec or cracked kernel+video+codec.
They will revoke my keys from my cold, dead hands! Once a disc is ripped and re-burned this entire key thing becomes a moot point. I don't seem them making a public war out of this. The 99% of people who will never make illegal copies will just continue to pay a jacked-up price to cover perceived losses.
why not make an openstandard/opensource non drm alternative, think firefox vs. internet explorer.. opensource alt. vs drm-infested garbage. given a few years it will be regarded as cheaper and smart movie producers would use open standard format oover these lames version..
The DVD has very nearly destroyed the pleasure of a night out at the movies/pictures watching 'the content' on the big screen.
Please don't give one of life's few remaining legal pleasures the coup de grace.
Well this is a great first step for me, now I just need a Linux player with which to take the title keys, decode the content, and play on my system. You see, I would have gone HD-DVD when they first hit the shelves, if it weren't for all of this DRM bullshit. I've had an HDTV for over 3 years. I use MythTV throughout the house. I have absolutely no interest in piracy... I just want to watch the damn movies on my MythTV system, and on non-HDCP monitors I have throughout the house. I'm happy to give the MPAA my money. In fact, my last count of DVDs that I own is over 350. 350!! I've since stopped purchasing DVDs in anticipation for HD format. Yet the MPAA won't get one dime from my hide until this DRM is cracked, or removed altogether. Dumbasses.
1828B68D292D2EA1E9EEA1C7044DC864FDBC3EB6=12 Monkeys |V|MM/DD/YY| 2662C05B5238B0C50BD1BDF693223712e s of Riddick |V|01/02/07| 69197293FCEF6F0ADE4BD33C4B1F132Ei um (Jap) |V|MM/DD/YY| 343CE9EE7DCB4018AA064BA09FF19B6F
1BAB7EEBB20C5425F5911E0272F07DD8F7208747=Aeon Flux |V|MM/DD/YY| A5F1A71839B666A68B1138B1DDDDEBAB
4ACABE525F5CBF77DAA43EA2B83E04918D5FA6D4=Apollo 13 |V|MM/DD/YY| 8BA9C422F93C9B4B4247814530B29C48
B9A62093767C0E7CB2BF16447A52E864A45FE50D=Batman Begins |V|MM/DD/YY| 423C48E5ABB185FC7FB8DB2BF764BEB0
A236F74A67CC51270E328F94BC6B4D905A628F9F=Casino |V|MM/DD/YY| A1DC17F6FA052A4BB4A0D66A7C49DBD9
4DF295764864556F3B44B71C0B8828DB80D84CA0=Chronicl
E34FBD5B8ABDC5312B38028002865BB3530AE3CE=Enter the Dragon |V|MM/DD/YY| 15C7F34076AED16E75637DC3BFDE84F8
419D740F2288CEE1EEB60613DAD9D74D7B63203B=Equilibr
A6EF2686A417863FEC63D1F7824F9406DEEB5ACC=Fear & Loathing Las V |V|MM/DD/YY| 246D84CBD2B6F747B6962B53BE026BF2
0E75082678AAD5CD4410A28A662D6832D21EB325=King Kong |V|09/18/06| 802F78B1B20D1183638D84E1A96D6EDD
EBC08E19B2059140DFF133E2B953D3A1538D7669=Miami Vice |V|MM/DD/YY| 3CB25E9C23BED3A496D049B9FCD0915B
EDEA3051F5802CB7FF80A24DFE7C720705D36A0F=Mission: Impossible |V|MM/DD/YY| 10CA125A572A96AE6EB74F6574CCC24D
1DBFD499BC05FB33F14FB76BBDD847B79B190AEA=Mission: Impossible 2 |V|MM/DD/YY| 8FD8341028A8A300AA16D7F8CCAB7E89
AF4BC7D6A55B08E6175204CABE862ECBB33B1DED=Mission: Impossible 3 |V|MM/DD/YY| 11D6A8CD59494EF3D4EC4E9002E902F9
A85B0043201474AC56794EA4AAE2C35577752FB3=The Mummy |V|MM/DD/YY| D6984C6B80D56F96CAE369474345E2B9
EB7A44A88AE2AF4B14C0B69B5DD5C621DE988593=Pitch Black |V|MM/DD/YY| 9D82A55BF2DAC3995AD24B40B802D71F
BA3C0208848EA13383F34E9E5BB95BDF0D89F1C8=Red Dragon |V|MM/DD/YY| 80596E6D9A94D2A3FDB094B9BA2D0A0A
C8A57242AF4CB5C0D7848BDA10821F984DC656E0=Serenity |V|MM/DD/YY| D075568AE6BB0B3F85446927B3794C28
17C8312A7BEA25A08606F118AD265FD657161D0D=SuperMan Returns |V|MM/DD/YY| EC2EC7F847F6D304B3C26F121CA578DA
87A660A656EDD1E07F66DB1A7DE594028A9587E2=V for Vendetta |V|00/00/00| AE196597E6A87A04AE6A24655990A4A6
B32592B86E782DBAEB4801FC1CD1B64CB3FF94A3=World Trade Center |V|01/13/07| DA41B36D90C25E533EE84A307EB2D929
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
Uploaders don't want to hear this, the hardware manufactures don't want to hear it, and Microsoft *certainly* does not want to hear this. But the content guys, if they want their DRM to work, have to stop listening to Microsoft's promises and require the decoding to be done in *hardware*.
A more complex requirement, one that is going to be difficult to explain, is that the hardware API must be completely documented and exposed, so that a Linux driver is easy to create. Obfuscation never works, while exposing everything will mean that any mistakes will be pointed out instantly by hackers trying to get fame by showing how smart they are. Being secretive about the card is *proof* that the design is not sufficently safe and the content industry should not license it. It is also pretty obvious that about 90% of the work in breaking DRM is by people trying to play them on Linux (real pirates (not uploaders) are much more interested in copying the disk image including the DRM, not in decoding it), so this would greatly reduce the number of smart people trying to crack it. Note that a custom driver will be pretty much equivalent to building your own IR remote for a dvd player, it won't do a lot.
My guess is the card will actually be inline between the graphics card and the display. It would replace a keyed area with the video and force the HDCP on and send it out the cable to the display. It probably also needs to directly connect to the disk player so that a disk image could not be fed to it. There may be schemes of key exchange so that such hardware connections are not needed (software only has access to encrypted and un-reusable data). The system api would probably be pretty much the same as the buttons on a remote control.
I just don't think that the ability to decode a limited number of HD-DVD titles is worth it. Fair use is about freedom-- the ability to use copyrighted works in ways not envisioned by the original copyright holders-- criticism, time shifting, parody, space shifting, news reporting, educational use.
But this? All it really does is allow owners of PowerDVD or WinDVD the ability to play a limited number of works from the hard drive. Big fucking deal. It's not freedom. It's not the first step towards a linux HD-DVD player. It's the first step towards a key revocation, the first step towards a rewrite of whatever player leaked the keys, the first step towards even more onerous DRM requirements, maybe the first step away from HD-DVD towards Bluray.
But, if you want to distribute the movie on the internet, it's useful.
How long do you think they can remain hidden in a file that has to be read by the Windows update utility for the express purpose of updating winDVD? Windows updates are individually selectable. It wouldn't be especially difficult to single out the winDVD update, and then decompile that to get a good clue as to where the keys are.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Sorry, but you can record a 1920x1080p stream in real time using a RAID array. 1920x1080x24x30/8=187MB/s. 10 (8 data 2 parity) HDs can easily record this fast. You can encode using JPEG to drop this to between 19 and 38MB/s. Use a real time MPEG-2 encoder using a few PCs could knock that down to 6-10MB/s and any single HD would do. With more processing power, you could real time encode into a HDTV stream (.ts) at 2.4MB/s. You could also record it using 50 of those new 32GB flash HD drives. They could hold over a 2 hour movie. Then any PC could convert the raw stream into any desired format.
My brother's employer builds such high end hardware. It can capture and backup 4 raw streams of the above quality for under $100K. The government buys that HW among others. Pirates are more likely to emulate a popular HW player like Xbox 360 for HD-DVD and PS3 for Blu-ray. They strip out the re-encryption routines and walla, unencumbered content at full quality. That is likely to cost much less than $100K. Msft or Sony will not alienate their owners by revoking those keys. And if they update them using new software or firmware, the pirate simply uses that in the emulator and breaks it again, likely much faster than they could update all of the players they made. No win scenario either way except for their customers when the pirate uploads formware with the encryption removed. How much would the public pay to remove the DRM from their HW player? Likely enough to raise the eyebrows of the management at either company.
Still waiting to figure out if you can take the sky from me.
It's over now. That, or it's go time. One of the two. acts of gord
The reason that keys can be revoked is to prevent the use of players which have security holes in them. The affected player will undergo a substantial rewrite, and any any embedded keys will be themselves encrypted. But, hey, they could make the same mistake twice.
Uh, we aren't talking about off-the-shelf hardware here I would assume. And it's not like realtime hardware MPEG2 or MPEG4 encoders don't exist or can't handle HDTV resolutions. Any TV studio probably has boxes that can handle that, and it only takes one person to pirate a movie before everyone has it. So yeah, HDCP serves a useful purpose.
Just to add a little to the other reply - your mythtv stream is only a few megabits/sec. Certainly not 700Mb/s! You might be able to record at that rate with the right drive setup, but you'd fill your hard drive mighty fast (80 megabytes per second eats through space pretty quick).
Go ahead and check the mythtv-users list - this is a common topic. The hardware capable of compressing live HD is very expensive - studio gear. We're not talking Apollo-mission cutting edge, but even the TV studios have difficulty with live HD streams (I know somebody who works in the industry).
Anybody recording HD using myth is recording compressed MPEG2 - not DVI. In fact, there is a company that will mod your cable box with DVI/HDMI-only output to add a firewire port so that you can record the HD stream at a decent rate.
Yeah, if you have a few TB of disk space. That card doesn't compress the signal - so you're drinking from a firehose. A 1 hour HD program would consume about 300GB of disk space if you used that card. Sure, you could then compress it down to a few GB, but not in realtime (figure 2 hours processing time for each 1 hour of recording time).
Want dual-tuners? Better have a bank of 6+ drives! Not only do you have to buffer all that video until it gets compressed, but you also have to stream it all at an insane rate of about 1.5Gbps - your SouthBridge won't even handle that, so you'd need a fancy motherboard design or several computers.
Consumer HD recording from DVI will only be practical when hardware mpeg2/4 compression becomes affordable. Right now the equipment for that is rack-mounted and costs a very pretty penny (computers, DSPs, signal-processors, probably lots of fiber, etc). TV studios use it, and they have trouble getting it all right...
The floodgates are open.
m ent_16_9_1280x720p_WM9_HD-DVD
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3213467/The_Fifth_Ele
Problem is, the studios typically don't make anything on the box office anymore; In fact, they expect to post a loss on ticket sales, and make their profit on DVDs. The theater has basically become a giant marketing project for the DVD.
89MB/Sec
1 Used perc 4 U320 = 200$
4 Ebayed St373454LWs = $400
HDCPs ass on a platter = Priceless.
Sony's attitude? You do realise that Blu-Ray is controlled by an association of nearly twenty companies, right?
* Apple Computer
* Dell
* Hewlett Packard
* Hitachi
* LG Electronics
* Mitsubishi Electric
* Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)
* Pioneer Corporation
* Royal Philips Electronics
* Samsung Electronics
* Sharp Corporation
* Sony Corporation
* TDK Corporation
* Thomson
* Twentieth Century Fox
* Walt Disney Pictures
* Warner Home Video Inc.
As opposed to HD-DVD in which the only major controllers are Toshiba, NEC, Sanyo, Intel, and that axis of evil, Microsoft.
Also, I seem to recall people here circa 2000 had posts similar to yours:
For me there are two choices:
1) DVD content works with no Region locks, CSS or UOPs
2) No DVD content for me
Do you still think this is the case? Do you think you'll still be able to buy new DVDs in 5 years?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
The fundamental idea that everyone else on this site has already realized (in many cases because it bit them personally) is that when you buy a piece of mass media, it should be yours to do whatever you want with (short of selling copies to others). If I buy "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington," I should be able to play it on any device I want for the rest of eternity. I want to be able to load it in to my Mediacenter PC (which plays DVDs directly from the hard disk, so I don't have to fuck with plastic disks). I should be able to play it on my video iPod. I should be able to play it on my OpenBSD laptop. When I'm 90 years old, I should be able to play it on my neuro-optical linkup. Also, I should be able to make offsite backups so that I don't lose my media collection if my house burns down. And I should be able to sell all my rights to this mass media to anyone else I want, in any "region" of the globe.
People familiar with digital technology (most slashdotters) already realize that what I listed about is the moral definition of fair use, even if the legal definition hasn't caught up yet.
Today, the only kind of DRM that allows this fair use is broken DRM. Eventually, a PKI/SmartCard/VideoOnDemand scheme (with legal requirements and restrictions) could allow this to be fixed. But that is a long way off. Today, the people breaking DRM are fighting for MY RIGHTS.
Anyone who can't see the value of being able to play your media on any device of your choosing, even those not yet invented, has either never considered the issue seriously, or is just plain dumb.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Oh. You meant windows users. The ones that haven't heard of DVDDecrypter and AutoGK. I get it now.
It would be pretty hard for them to rip a DVD. And that's a shame, because it's so cool to be able to watch your dvd's on your phone, or your ipod, or on your driveless linux settop box.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
They should give up. It's hopeless.
There are enough honest folk to sell their content to that they can make a good living. The crooks can and will always cheat. Hiring armed guards to escort and live with each recorded disc is cost prohibitive and nothing else is going to solve this problem for them. Any content that can be played can be recorded. Period. Anything one program can do, another program can do. That is not going to change ever.
They should just sell us honest folk a disc that contains the content we want in a form that is easily copied onto our home servers and transcoded into our desired format, trust us not to cheat, and be happy with the money we give them.
Yeah, they'll still sell only one copy for all of China, but that's not going to change ever either. The pirates get their content before it's even on the master of the disc we buy. Strangely, it seems they sometimes get it even before the final edit.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
You could always set up something to pretend it's a monitor or television with HDCP. Something that responds to EKE and decompresses on the fly, and saves the result. As long as data needs to be somehow shown to a user, there will always be a way around any scheme like this. There's no data manipulation you can't do with modern software.
The sad thing about all this DRM is that the big time pirates don't care and it doesn't affect them one iota.
Why?
Very simply - a CD/DVD duplication service stamps out thousands of CDs. They get an order to make a master and stamp out 20,000 CDs. Just for safety in case there is a sales surge, they actually stamp out 25,000 CDs, so that if the customer wants an urgent extra supply if the product proves popular, they can ship out the extras while they retool to do another production run.
What is to stop a pirate from bribing some technician to stamp out a few more CDs? There is a spoilage rate as not all the CDs manufactured are up to quality - what if a few more were "spoiled" and instead of being immediately shredded, they were diverted to a pirate?
Since when have you seen a good-quality pirate DVD printed on a recordable DVD? They always seem to be manufactured as professionally as the genuine article. Dollars to donuts, they both came out of the same CD duplication service.
Just my $0.02 worth's opinion.
-- The universe began. Life started on a billion worlds...
-- Except on one where stupidity was there first.
Additionally, all you're taking is the compressed mpeg2 stream direct from the digital feed and back to the harddrive, you'll notice that the bandwidth to record that level of video is significantly slower than attempting the same thing with 1080p.
BTW, gigabit cards are relatively cheap, and assuming your frontend and backend are the only two myth boxes in the house (Today anywAY) you could forgo the gig switch, and use a cross over cable between the two, thats actually what I'm doing right now, and it works great.
harryk
think before you write, it'll save me moderator points.
a linux HD-DVD player
For less than a meg you can have a file with the key to tens of thousands of movies... i.e. every movie. Assuming you're online at least once every month or two, a background process your system can autoupdate that list with new releases for the bandwith of a single ping packet and a few dozen bytes per month.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
The "on a platter" part is what really makes it happen. A hoot.
A real HD DVDrip of Serenity is already out and making the rounds.
>"all the HDDVD and BluRay players have internet connectivity."
What happens if you never connect the cable?
No sig today...
In recent tests from TV tech magazines, there was virtually no chain of equipment (disc player, sat receiver, digital settop box, hard disk recorder and TV set), that was able to play all HDTV content that was thrown at it. Not even equipment bought from the same brand was stable enough (Yes, a set of disc player, sat receiver, settop box and TV set from Sony was not able to play all Sony content).
Some mixed sets proved to be quite capable, but even using the next revision of the same device broke the chain again. Compatibility virtually does not exist. HDTV logo aside. Two component stuff works quite well (e.g. sat receiver + TV set), but as soon as you use more equipment, it breaks easily.
The executive summary was: HDTV is not ready yet.
A constant IV in CBC mode can leak information about the plaintext, but it doesn't make it any easier to crack the key. In this instance AIUI the key is only used once, so I don't think there are any attacks.
Just to correct some other misinformation in this thread: a constant IV doesnt' make a "dictionary attack" noticeably easier. The ciphertext isn't "completely random" unless you're using a one time pad, but it may be (and usually should be) indistinguishable from random. It's indistinguishable from random if and only if you're unable to make a good guess about a single bit given the other bits (IIRC). However a distinguishing attack does not imply that key material is leaked by any means.
Still, the choice of CBC mode shows that they didn't have the best expertise on board - these days CTR mode is more often the mode of choice.
If you see people making assertions about cryptographic topics such as these on Slashdot, feel free to comment on my journal asking me to comment on them and if it's within my expertise I'll try to clarify.
Xenu loves you!
Don't you mean 1920 * 1080 * 36?
AFAIK, there are 12 bits per color, per pixel.
If HDDVD is considered "insecure", studios won't produce for it. If they have to expect their content to be copied if they distribute it on HDDVD, they will avoid the medium and prefer to sell on BluRay.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
But will No Holes Barred, be released on HD-DVD?
The only question is whether they have the guts to do it.
I suspect the only question is when will they have the guts to do it.
I'm guessing that there are perhaps a hundred HD-DVD titles, perhaps more, perhaps less. Not a whole lot. The keys discovered so far were recovered with the help of an insecure player, which may have its access revoked until it is rewritten. CSS had a fixed keyblock that only allowed for a few hundred different keys. AACS uses a broadcast encryption scheme that allows hundreds of thousands of keys to be revoked.
Fine. I want you to take an HD-DVD, decrypt it, and play it on (pick one)
1) your ipod
2) your bsd laptop
Well?
Have you done it yet?
Quickly now. You don't want to find out that by the time your tool chain is constructed, and you're ready to start buying HD-DVDs with abandon, that keys have been revoked and security flaws patched.
er, as long as we're talking about logos:
In the United States, a HDTV is not required to have a HDMI port and not required to use HDCP. There's a HDMI logo, which is supposed to guarantee some compatibility, but apparently the technology doesn't work. Maybe HDMI 1.3 will fix this.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
True, enough... I did state that the network link is only 100mbps. Recording three HD streams uses about 6.5 megabytes per second of disk & network. Three streams is about 24GB of disk space an hour.
For a better point of reference the Colts vs Raven game yesterday was broadcast in 1080i. The recording schedule is configured to run late 45 minutes, I ended up with 4 hours 15 minutes worth of video. That file is 38GB in size.
If the govt becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law, it invites man to become his own law, it invites anarchy
Yeah, I've used the cross-over cable solution before... it does work well.
My main frontend only has the three pci slots and they're filled with capture cards. So I'm stuck with the on-board 100mbps nic. Backend has a gigabit nic on-board and there is one other dedicated mythbox as well as a few more workstations with myth installed. The cheap-o gigabit switch works well enough.
If the govt becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law, it invites man to become his own law, it invites anarchy
There are presumably a thick raft of consumer-protection laws which prevent the industry from turning your shiny new $500 HD player into a shiny boat anchor because some nitwit cracked the player key. If the industry ever did that sort of thing, I'd expect either a product recall with free replacements/servicing or a class-action lawsuit against either the revoking authority or the manufacturer for not offering replacements.
Come to think of it, who is responsible when a manufacturer makes a product and a revoking authority with which they'd signed a contract turns it into a paperweight? Whose responsibility, whose fault?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
You know you'll "ruin the industry" exactly as much by not pirating anything (and not buying anything either, or buying second-hand) as you would by pirating? If you're cheap, say you're cheap. If you loathe playback controls (those fucking unskippable ads), say that. But piracy only hurts the industry if you used to buy scads of DVDs and stopped because you now prefer to pirate them.
It is all monstrously short-sighted, isn't it, though? I mean, how will we copy these films when they leave copyright? Or if a public-domain film is distributed in a DRM'd format? A stopgap solution might be to require an unencrypted version be deposited with the Library of Congress of any commercially distributed work with total sales over $100 or something like that... but any copyright wonkery at this point is simply wishful thinking.
I suppose I'll go cry in my beer now.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
The DRM on DVD has been broken. Now, I can exercise my fair use rights with my DVD collection. The keys have not been revoked. Why should HDDVD be any different?
And it doesn't matter if all the tools to exercise my fair use rights are available today. It is only possible for me to exercise my rights if bad DRM schemes (like all those existing today) are broken. I prefer difficult but possible freedom to impossible freedom.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Huh? Ernst Zündel was arrested for overstaying his visa in the US, he sought asylum in Canada but was denied, and was eventually deported back to Germany. I know the guy thinks he's Gandhi, but I don't see how it relates. The guy was deported back to a country in which he was arrested and tried, and that was that. Where exactly did the Jews used their magical nose rays in this process?
Doesn't this mean that you can use the broken version of WinDVD and a key-extractor to decrypt any currently-released HD-DVD movie? That's considerably more than just Serenity, isn't it?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Oh, snap! Did you just break the DMCA?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
AACS isn't CSS. It's not based on a ultra-1337 sekrit crypto algorithm. It's based on a published, well documented cryptographic engine (AES). The number of possible device keys is not limited to 400 or so-- millions can be released, and millions can be revoked.
There seems to a widespread belief that no one in hollywood learns from their mistakes.
I would like for HD-DVDs to be accessible for fair use. I really would. But I see no evidence that this breach cannot be repaired by AACS and the DVD forum.
Besides, HDCP is breakable. Not unlockable with a spare key that someone found lying under a doormat. Breakable. Somewhere around 40 displays are required to locate the collision, and if you ask nicely, and promise to bring it back in one piece, I might just donate mine to the cause.
I read my post again and realized something had to be very very wrong:
(...)and you're down to ~360Mbps, or 45MB/s. Hell, I capture 25MB/s from my DV camera on a regular basis.
That should be 25Mbit, or ~3MB/s. Then again, everythine else I wrote was correct
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
But if you captured it using a framegrabber it would be:
1920*1080*30fps*12bpp*255min*60s/min/8bytes/bit = 1.4E12 bytes - and that isn't including the audio.
Even compressed HD uses quite a bit of space, but my point was that capturing DVI wasn't practical at all, even if you could afford the hardware (unless you buy realtime compression hardware).
You don't get firmware updates. Which means that if your player's key is revoked (pretty unlikely, anyway; the player key responsible for this leak is almost certainly the one in PowerDVD for Windows) you're stuffed with new discs.
Also, it means that you won't get lovely improvements like the 5.1 TrueHD support that A1 and XA1 received with the 2.0 firmware.
For those that don't have a broadband connection, though, Toshiba will send you the latest firmware on a disc, which is nice of them.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
?What is TPM?
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
At 20 GB a movie, I don't suspect there's going to be significant downloading, although perhaps more than one would expected. Anyway, it is somewhat beyond the point. For the leechers it might be the point, but for those behind this it's mostly about fair use.
y right-canada.html
;)
Here's what I mean:
I have the XBOX HD-DVD player which is usable on both PC and XBOX.
On the PC side, I have a kickass machine with a dual dvi video card beyond my needs (I don't play PC games, this is a DAW), updated drivers for HDCP, two very nice 1920x1200 widescreen lcd monitors connected by DVI, and a legit copy of WinDvd HD.
On the home theatre side, I just spent about 5K on a 1080P setup, with one of the best 8th gen LCDs Sharp has to offer.
I bought about 500$ worth of legit HD-DVD titles...
Yet, on the home theatre I can only playback in 1080i because AACS disalows 1080P playback over component (what XBOX has), and on the PC I can't playback at all. So here I am a few thousand bucks later and I don't have what I paid for and should have.
The only way for me to watch the movies in Full HD resolution was to decode the AACS. Then by hooking up my PC to my LCD TV with DVI I can watch in 1080P. My PC doesn't have onboard DTS support, and my DAW soundcard has XLR output, so I still lose the 6.1 sound.
So now, to watch movies in HD, I must connect my XBOX 360 drive to a friend's PC that supports HDCP, load the movie in WinDVD HD, dump the memory, get the volume key, dump the HD DVD to my USB hard drive, go back home, move my PC to my living room, connect the cables and hard drive, and watch it in 1080P without DTS.
I'm not sure if i've broken any laws, maybe I broke a few dozen, certainly spent quite a few thousand dollars and countless hours, and my HD DVD playback is still crippled.
Good thing I'm in Canada, because I'd be affraid of MPAA serving me a nice lawsuit of $250,000 multiplied by the 20 HD DVDs I bought from them and dumped to an external hard drive. This article here makes me believe I acted lawfully in Canada but that it may change in the very near future: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/01/11/cop
That's the point of what is going on.
BTW, I didn't post my movie keys to the net either. I'm tempted, but I wont. I want the actors, studios and MPAA to get the hard earned money they deserve, poor starving fucks
Oops, good point, I was only thinking about read speeds. Write speeds would be lower.
Which would be null if it weren't for the fanboys wanting to buy a movie and show it off - that is, before they relaized they could put films on their memory sticks - that is, before they realized it's a fun novelty, but really not worth the effort unless you're going on a long plane trip.
110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
Is give Sony and the BluRay crowd more advertising slogans.
Scott Carr