Japanese Stores Lowering PS3 Prices

Kotaku is reporting that the 20GB PS3 is down by 20% the the Akihibara district of Tokyo. Reports from both here and in Japan would seem to indicate that PlayStation 3s are sitting on shelves, as gamers wait for price drops or new games. The Tokyo merchants are anxious, it seems, and ready to get their consoles out the door. From the article: "The 20GB version originally books at 49,980 yen (US $412), but is being offered for 39,980 yen ($329) in a sale ending February. The shop is knocking a flat 10,000 yen ($82) right now. Japanese bulletin board 2chan reports that this at other Don Quijotes as well. It's interesting to check out the PS3 vibe at 2chan; Reasons for not buying go from 'there are no games I want' to 'video stores don't rent Blu-ray movies.' Well, not yet that is."

Comments

Anyone know about the dynamics of retail/mfg?

[UbuntuDupe]

I heard that for the initial launch of a product, the manufacturer bears part of the risk by promising to buy back some number of unsold units. Is there any truth to this at all? And if so, wouldn't a retailer exercise these options before taking a loss like that?

Oh, I almost forgot: here's my reaction to the story:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! oh man.... HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH!!!! ahh....

(See also: Rush Limbaugh drug arrest.)

Re:Anyone know about the dynamics of retail/mfg?

[Thansal]

Well, if Sony is willing to buy back unsold stock (I have never seen this idea in print before, tohugh I have heard it once or twice), they would probably only buy back at the wholesale value, aka the stores still take a hit (Shipping, storage, etc). However if the stores can move it a little bit above wholesale value, then they have a better chance of being in the black.

Re:Anyone know about the dynamics of retail/mfg?

[AKAImBatman]

I heard that for the initial launch of a product, the manufacturer bears part of the risk by promising to buy back some number of unsold units. Is there any truth to this at all?

It depends upon the agreement between the manufacturer and retailer. In the 1980's this practice was uncommon in the video game sector, and resulted in the video game crash of '83/'84. When Nintendo introduced the NES, they promised to purchase unsold stock back from the retailers as a method of reassuring them.

So... it sort of depends. I honestly wouldn't be surprised either way. With the Playstation 2 having sold well over 100 million units, I imagine the retailers weren't too concerned. Of course, we're technically talking about the Japanese market were American retail policies don't apply. So most likely, the store is on the hook to get rid of them.

Re:Anyone know about the dynamics of retail/mfg?

[Fulg]

Well, if Sony is willing to buy back unsold stock (I have never seen this idea in print before, tohugh I have heard it once or twice)

It's been a long time since I worked in the retail channel, but generally the stores do business with distributors, not with the manufacturer directly (eg Sony). Distributors will "buy back" unsold inventory and sell it to other stores. If no stores want said inventory, only then does it go back to the manufacturer. This applies to (unopened) software as well.

Same with stores that exchange defective merchandise, the distributor is the one who deals with sending stuff back to the manufacturer.

I'm sure stores aren't too concerned with the "money sitting on the shelves" with unsold PS3s, the major concern is the shelf space itself as it could have been filled with something that sells instead.

20GB don't matter too much

[fistfullast33l]

Bidding on the 20GB on Ebay dropped off first as well - why would buy the 20GB when for $100 more you get a 60GB with the wireless, card readers, and the extra disk space? A lot of the early adopters probably had a PSP as well, which really doesn't talk to the 20GB at all. So all in all, while this is something to note, I doubt you'll see this in the US any time soon.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[Volante3192]

why would buy the 20GB when for $100 more you get a 60GB with the wireless, card readers, and the extra disk space?

There's a number of people who plan to buy the PS3 for the sole reason that it's a cheap Blu-Ray player (I frequent an AV forum as well as this). For them, that extra $100 represents 3 BD movies.

It also probably makes Sony happier than someone who gets the 60GB, Resistance and spends every day in multiplayer.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[CK2004PA]

Actually, the PS3 isn't selling in the US either. And its not because Sony can meet demand, its because demand isn't there. Sony released this news and MarketWatch carried it on 1/16 , Slashdot just hasn't carried it yet.
http://www.vgcharts.org/news.php?id=58

However, he continued, "The PlayStation brand doesn't appear to be helping the PS3. If NPD's numbers are correct, there are over 300K PS3s on retail shelves. That is not good for a console launch of only a million and it's not good for publishers with PS3 software."
Would you like some nails for your coffin?

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[CK2004PA]

I hate to reply twice, but to further refute your point, it is happening in the US but in a slightly different manner. Gamestop & EBGames announced $100 off the PS3 if you turn in your PS2. Apparently people bought, and continue to buy, the Wii, 360, and PS2, just not the PS3 or its sister console, the Dreamcast.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/13/deal-or-no-deal- 100-off-ps3-by-giving-up-ps2/

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[Stormwatch]

Apparently people bought, and continue to buy, the Wii, 360, and PS2, just not the PS3 or its sister console, the Dreamcast.

Hey! Don't insult the Dreamcast! Not only it had many more launch titles (18) than the PS3 (5), it had far BETTER ones too... the PS3 has nothing revolutionary like Sonic Adventure and Soul Calibur were back in 99.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[Blackforge]

Well I can trade in my old PS2 to make the cost of the 20GB a lot easier to swallow ($399).

If I ever decide I want to go wireless draft N and want to stream HD, then wireless G is less desireable so that makes the internal wireless moot for me. I currently have 3 WRT54GS in WDS mode using DD-WRT. One of them services my living room for Tivos, Xbox 360, etc.

Built in card reader? Eh... I'm not sure whats stopping you from using an external one. A lot of the card readers have been free after rebate, so not too important.

Also, I can upgrade the hard drive to an internal 2.5" 120GB 5400RPM 8MB Cache drive: $100 shipped. I wouldn't feel as good about having a 60GB drive laying around as I would a 20GB.

But of course everyone has different needs.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[Jesterboy]

Well, I believe it may have something to do with the ability to upgrade the HDD; that $100 could easily buy you a 120GB hard drive, if you're willing to forego the features you mentioned.

I'm not really sure what kind of purpose this would serve at the moment, but maybe people are hoping that the PS3 will soon be hacked like the PSP was...? ^_^

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[nomadic]

Agreed!

The Dreamcast was the lightsaber of consoles; a more elegant console for a more civilized age.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[ROBOKATZ]

They also give $50 off a Wii when you trade in your GameCube. I guess by your logic people are still buying the GameCube but not the Wii.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[wandazulu]

You hit upon something here...the Dreamcast really was a *revolutionary* product. It had a modem and then a NIC before any other console, it had a memory card that doubled as a super mini game system, and it had a wide selection of games that looked awesome (Soul Calibur) and had quirky but fun gameplay (Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5, etc.).

I didn't have an original Playstation (was a N64 user) so I wasn't looking forward to the PS2, and when it came out it didn't have the cool stuff that the Dreamcast had (Maraccas as a game controller, anyone?) and its original game lineup looked crummy (I played TTT and thought it was a pixelated mess and it kind of ruined the whole Tekken franchise for me). What got me was all the "matter of fact" statements that while the Dreamcast was nice, the PS2 will simply blow it away. Well, yes, it did, but only with an installed base upgrading and getting a DVD player. If the DC had used DVDs, I think they would have had a much better fight.

So the PS3 is here and it's basically a warmed-over PS2. New disc technology and new graphics technology...both just like the PS2, and they finally wised up to the reality of the Internet and added connectivity. I may get one to play Gran Turismo 5, but it'll be selling for $199 or less by the time I do.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[CK2004PA]

They also give $50 off a Wii when you trade in your GameCube. I guess by your logic people are still buying the GameCube but not the Wii.

Nice strawman Sony fanboi! Actually, they used to give you $50 for your PS2, but upped it to $100 if you bought a PS3 also during your tradein. You see, they are losing money on the PS3, bigtime, and want to get rid of it "somehow".

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[spun]

Yeah, but hokey religions and ancient consoles are no match for a good blaster.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[triffid_98]

I declare jihaad on Sony until they give us a fishing controller and a pair of maraccas for the PS3. After their massacre of the DC it is ours by right of sharia law.

Hey! Don't insult the Dreamcast! Not only it had many more launch titles (18) than the PS3 (5), it had far BETTER ones too... the PS3 has nothing revolutionary like Sonic Adventure and Soul Calibur were back in 99.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[harlows_monkeys]

Bidding on the 20GB on Ebay dropped off first as well - why would buy the 20GB when for $100 more you get a 60GB with the wireless, card readers, and the extra disk space?

I've seen some auctions on eBay for the 60GB end with the winning bid below retail. I saw one where the winning bid plus shipping was still below retail. It's not just the 20GB that is experience a big drop in demand.

It took my local BestBuy a week for six of the 60GB units to sell last week.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of what you say is true, except for the wireless. Although you may have a WAP with a built-in switch near your TV area to service your other devices, most people don't have an easy way to get a CAT5 cable to their PS3. Wireless is going to be critical for these people if they want to do anything online (and they will).

BTW, a USB hub hooks up quite nicely to the PS3, which makes adding things like an external card readers super easy. It's also more convenient because you'd probably have to stoop down to stick a card in the PS3, but you can easily put the external one at standing height. It also can potentially make it easier to use your controllers in wired mode in case you out-play your battery or forget to charge it.

The easiness of upgrading the hard drive is the probably the best kept secret that everyone should know about the PS3. For anyone who wants to store all the family pictures, their music, videos and games on the PS3, 60GB isn't going to be enough. Since you don't need to have the Wi-Fi, buying a 20GB and upgrading the hard drive right away is going to be a great way to go. I wish I had done it right off that bat too. My understanding is it'll be more of a pain in the but to transfer data later.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[ROBOKATZ]

Nice strawman Sony fanboi!

Nice ad hominem. I was actually at GameStop yesterday looking for a Classic controller to play Link to the Past with on my Wii when I saw the sign on the register. I did not see a sign for the PS3 discount.

Actually, they used to give you $50 for your PS2, but upped it to $100 if you bought a PS3 also during your tradein. You see, they are losing money on the PS3, bigtime, and want to get rid of it "somehow".

I figured they were basically the same discount seeing as how $50/$250 is proportional to $100/$500. If they are that desperate then why don't they just give an extra $50 off, period? By the way they had a big stack of X-Box 360's in the window but they don't seem to be "desperate" to get rid of those. Believe it or not most stores like having stock onhand to be able to sell rather than having to turn customers away.

I'm not saying the PS3 is exactly a fantastic seller but your argument that retailers are "desperate" based on the fact that, at GameStop, you get the same % discount on the PS3 when trading in a PS2 as you get on a Wii when trading in a GameCube is thin at best.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[Anonymous Coward]

I have both the 360 and the PS3. Will be getting the wii soon (in a few months). Of the three it is shapping up to be the one I will play on the most. As I have my stash of ps2/ps1 games that 'just work'. Unlike the 360 where 10 of my 50 xbox games work.

So far I am impressed with the ps3. Decent hardware, decent dvd playback, bluray. The only thing I am a bit disapointed in is the games. Not a whole lot yet. However this is about the same with most systems at launch. Been playing the GT free download. It is a nice rev to the series. I will not be buying it though as I never liked the series. Might get motostorm.

It seems most people seem to WANT sony to fail. Which I find puzzling (for slashdot anyway). They support linux OUT OF THE BOX. Try that with the wii or 360. Graphics wise it is about a gen ahead of the 360 and WAY ahead of the wii. Do not discount eye candy. It sells.

The wii has the controller. Which is fun. Which is a step up from their prev gen which was only a 'me too' system. It does have a LARGE number of launch titles. Which makes me think that either the HW is about the same as the prev gen (and therefore easy to crank out garbage) or more people are producing games for it. I think it is more of the former and less of the later.

I look at all three systems like this
- PS3 is a 'major upgrade' to hardware. Not a whole lot new inovation here. Basically more of the same but much better. Backwards compatability is pretty good. Lack of games means hardware is fairly newish.
- WII is a 'minor upgrade' to hardware. The controler is the new bit here. Basically more of the same with a twist of a new controller. Backwards compatability is pretty good (least so I have heard havent tried it yet). Explosion of games means hardware is very similar to prev gen. The games will start to look 'dated' and people will shy away from them.
- 360 is a 'medium upgrade' to hardware. Semi radical change to their platform. Hence the lack of launch titles (this is changing now though). This is MS playing catchup to the other two players. They have caught up.

Hardware wise I would stack them as PS3, 360, Wii. Game titles avail is the reverse.

Look for a rev to nintendo in about 1/2 year. They learned how to do this from the gameboy. They will want to do the same with the wii.

The 'interesting' play here is the bluray. EVEN *IF* they hit 4 million shipped. That is a decent number of bluray players shipped (seeing as it came out last July). DVD would have killed for those number 7-8 months after launch. Most of those people will snag a movie or two for it. HD-DVD does not even come close to those numbers. Also I am starting to not believe most of these sites with the neg news on PS3. NYTimes had one the other day about porn. Another site did what they should have done and CALLED SONY. There are dozens of places to get movies pressed into discs. The 'big' ones do not do porn. Those are the ones that probably can make BluRay right now. Their policy is no porn, not Sony. HD-DVD was ment to be an small tweak to existing DVD, BluRay is not. So the smaller houses probably can only make HD-DVD for now. I think the rumor sites are feeding into each other and 'creating' a bad vibe for sony. These are the same sites a few years ago that were like ATI is the R0X0rs and nVidia blows. Even though the diff was fairly minor.

Also did I mention I did not pay a dime for any of the systems? They were gifts. So do not think I am justifying the PS3 here because I payed a bunch for it. I truely think it is the better of the 3. Would I pay about 1500 for all three? Probably not. More in the 200-300 I would get all three though. 400 for the 360 is too much. 250 for the wii too much and 600 for the PS3 is way too much. You can still get a PS2 (decent system) for 100-150.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[MeanderingMind]

I'll second the importance of Wifi.

Something people forget is that most homes A) are not wired and B) have the TV and computer is completely different rooms. Because the internet connection is usually in the same room as the computer, this means stringing long CAT5e around doors, furniture and walkspaces. If I wasn't living alone, I'd probably not bother to string the tripwire all the way from my bedroom to my 360.

Having Wifi capability makes a big difference, if only it were cheaper for my 360.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[Raenex]

Because the internet connection is usually in the same room as the computer, this means stringing long CAT5e around doors, furniture and walkspaces.

Another option is ethernet over your electrical wiring (HomePlug). WiFi was too flakey for me so I chose that instead. They're not cheap at $50 per outlet but I like the convenience and reliability.

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[dootbran]

When I first read that I thought you said BLISTER... flashbacks of playing Street Fighter Alpha 3

Re:20GB don't matter too much

[CK2004PA]

*sigh* OK I'll try to go slow for you. the 360 has been out for over 1 year and still sold 1.1 million units during the opening month of the PS3 and Wii. The Wii is not on store shelves. 300,000 PS3's rot on store shelves (see link I posted above). So, with people still buying the 360 (10 million total, 1.1 million last month) and 1.4 million PS3's total & 300,000 PS3's on shelves, one can easily see there is NO demand for the PS3 to move it at the rate the 360 is moving. Forget comparing it to the Wii.

Goto Google or joystik's website and see the articles about both game stores if you don't belive me. The Ps3 has failed, totally. Sorry , I know it hurts!

Other ways to get rid of them

[MikeRT]

Offer them up as free gifts for giving $1 to the Salvation Army. Look at a PS3 game with slight interest, get one free. Buy a Wii or XBox 360, get a PS3 for free.

The PS3 Has No Games

[miyako]

I think that the price doesn't have quite as much to do with the (lack of) adoption of the PS3 as people seem to think. The biggest problem seems to be that the system doesn't have any friggen games worth a crap.
I have a PS3, and I only have 3 games for it (Resistance: Fall of Man, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Genji:Days of the Blade), and two of them are absolute and utter crap (Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Genji:Days of the Blade), and one of those isn't even an exclusive (Marvel Ultimate Alliance). Compared to the Wii, which has been getting great games at a fairly good clip (Zelda, Elebits, Wario Ware, Metal Slug Anthology, Super Monkey Ball) or the 360, which has had a year to get some good games.(Kameo, Oblivion, Dead Rising, Gears of War- all system sellers)
I would like to see the PS3 do well (after spending that much money on it, I would say I have a vested interest) - but c'mon sony, not many people are going to buy these things just to be able to install Linux on it!

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[Rycross]

Guess that Sony exec was wrong when he said people would buy them even without games.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[Manmademan]

to be fair, the 360 didn't really have much to write home about 3 months after launch and is still performing worse than the original Xbox in japan. IIRC a good chunk of the launch games were derided for looking exactly like Xbox games.

Even the titles you listed for the Wii aren't really that impressive- Zelda is a gamecube port of a series that doesn't sell very well in japan (it's currently sold only about 300k copies), metal slug is a collection of older games ported from the Neo Geo, Super Monkey ball is available for almost every system out there, and Elebits has been reviewed pretty poorly across the board. the only really original standout game for the system is Wario Ware.

Launch titles are overrated in terms of importance. the DC had without a doubt the best titles available at launch but performed the poorest last gen, while the Ps2's anemic launch led it to market dominance.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[miyako]

The thing is, the ps3 isn't competing against what the 360 had 3 months after its launch, it's competing against what the 360 has available right now.
Maybe the games I listed aren't doing great in japan, but the Wii seems to be pretty popular in japan as well as in the US, so something must have people there buying it (they have better virtual console choices than the US, so maybe that's it)
The PS3 has an anoerxic game library, and all of the big name titles that were system sellers for the PS2 are a year or two away, or no longer exclusive (Gamespot has rumors that MGS4 will be out on the 360).
Of course, early adopters are often willing to buy a console on the promise of what will eventually be available (I did)- but there is a large secondary market to consider. There are a lot of people who like games, and are interesting in getting a next gen system, but will make decisions based largely on their experiences playing the systems at their friends houses. When the PS3 doesn't have any games to offer up those experiences, then people will focus on the 360 or wii, which they have played good games on.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[Megane]

When I failed to get a Wii this Sunday (I esentially bet on the wrong horse), I found someone who was interested in a PS3 without games. He worked for IBM and wanted something that would let him play around with the Cell processor.

I think the problem is that he represents a very small part of the market, whereas Nintendo is bringing in new gamers with Wii Sports. Now if they could just make enough of them, maybe I could have one too.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[miyako]

There are people who are interested in the PS3 as a (relatively) cheap development platform. The primary reason that I got one was to be able to play around with the Cell processor (Of course, I also quite enjoy console games). I know a few other people who got one for the same reason.
The problem is, as you said, it's a miniscule fraction of the market. These people don't help sony out at all (they take a loss on the system, and never recoup it in selling games/bluray movies) and it doesn't help the game publishers(it inflates the potential customer base. There are X ps3s in the wild, but only Y% of people who own PS3s will actually buy games).

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[bk_veggie]

So, the fact you don't like the gameplay in M:UA makes it utter crap?

My wife and I are having a blast brawling through this one on the wii. It's a mindless 2 button arcade style masher, and does exactly as it promises.

It's okay not to like something, but it's moronic to say it's crap, especially when the evidence points otherwise:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/marv elultimatealliance

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[Manmademan]

Regarding Japan- the Ps3 isn't competing against the 360 at all. It's essentially dead there. did you miss my comment concerning how the 360 is performing worse than the original Xbox there, and THAT console was considered a massive failure?

The Ps3 is competing against the Wii, and to a lesser extent, the DS which is a runaway success and may very well outsell all other platforms there.

Both the Ps3 and the Wii have anemic launch software IN JAPAN. There are no clear system sellers, and both are selling on potential. Hell, even in the US the only games anyone is talking about are Zelda (which again, is a gamecube port) and Wii sports, which comes free with the system.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[miyako]

fair enough, apparently quite a few people have enjoyed the game. Personally, I found it tedious. The levels all look the same, and are almost fractal-like in their repetition. Plus all the heroes seem to play exactly the same as well. It basically seems like the game could be completed using a naive path-finding algorithm and someone tapping "x" repeatedly for a few hours.
It may or may not be crap, and certainly some people enjoy it, but it's defintely not a system seller, and certainly not a game that I can see large swaths of PS3 owners congregating outside of gamestop to buy.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[miyako]

I haven't kept up extensively with what's available in japan, so I can't argue (except for calling Zelda a port, which I'm not sure is entirely true. It started out as a gamecube game, but was developed for a long time as a Wii game, and there are certainly some elements that I imagine were difficult to do on the GC version. If anything it's a dual platform game, where both platforms happen to be nintendo systems). Either way, I still seem to remember hearing that the 360 was picking up steam (although going from selling 1 console a month to 5 would be a 500% increase, and the console would still be effectively dead- so I guess that doesn't mean much).

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[MeanderingMind]

Regarding Zelda, 352k (using vgcharts.org) is 28% of all Japanese Wii owners. That seems rather respectable.

However, you're also neglecting that there is a Gamecube version which many players (especially die-hard lefties) may have opted for. This is not listed on vgcharts, and I could not find a figure elsewhere.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[miyako]

I should have specified, as a cheap development/testing platform for the Cell processor.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[MeanderingMind]

Both the Ps3 and the Wii have anemic launch software IN JAPAN. There are no clear system sellers, and both are selling on potential.

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7414

There are two Wii games, Sports and Play, in the top ten software sales last week in Japan. Both are approaching 800k. Additionally, there are another four in the top thirty.

For a system with an install base of somewhere between 1 million and 1.5 million, rank higher than games coming out for the insanely popular DS (with well over 10 million in Japan) and the old standby PS2 is incredible. In face, Dragon Quest is the biggest name in RPGs over there, and even though it came out more recently than Wii Sports the latter title is still the #1 seller from last week.

I think that's hardly anemic, especially with a slew of new titles coming out sooner rather than later. If you don't like what the Wii offers now, there's still plenty coming in a reasonable amount of time. PS3 owners are still looking at more than 6 months for most of their interesting titles, many of which were supposed to be coming at launch.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[PeelBoy]

I doubt MGS4 will come out for the 360. A year or so ago the I remember the creator (forget his name) saying something about wanting to bring MG (not sure if he was talking about a new MG game, a port or what) to the Wii but it won't or might not happen because of contractual reasons.

I could be wrong though and I'm not sure if it covers future versions or spin offs but I'm pretty sure that MGS4 is bound by contract and will remain a Sony exclusive unless they give the go ahead or he pulls something off or something.

I know Snake will be in the new Smash Bros so I guess that is a good sign. It's probably just MGS4 he's talking about.

Anyway I think he's more interested in the Wii than the 360. I know the games always look nice but he doesn't seem that interested in the raw power compared to what he can do with the Wii.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[MemoryDragon]

Yes the Wii has a steady stream of games coming out, although I would prefer to see more epic games along the lines of Zelda, but it has its merits, regarding new games and especially wii only exclusives, or best played on a wii (rayman raving rabbits for instance probably works only on a wii really well), guess it pays off that Wii games are known territory, cheap to produce and leave interesting experimental fields to the devs. While many of them currently try to figure out to get anything up and running on a ps3...

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[shawngarringer]

I was in Japan a few weeks ago, and there were PLENTY of PS3s. Wii's and DS Lites were in short supply.

BIC Camera in Tokyo: http://gallery.planetcr.com/gallery2/v/japan/Elect ric+City/S5000470.JPG.html (PS3 in Stock, Wii and DS Sold Out!)

Also, heres the XBox 360 section: http://gallery.planetcr.com/gallery2/v/japan/nagoy a/S5000139.JPG.html

Compare that to the Wii section: http://gallery.planetcr.com/gallery2/v/japan/nagoy a/S5000141.JPG.html

Any more questions over whats more popular there?

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[Manmademan]

Any more questions over whats more popular there?

Leave it to internet fanboys to rush to the defense of their favorite system without actually reading comments. No one is disputing the Wii is outselling everything at this point. The Wii and DS are selling at outstanding rates at the moment. The QUESTION is does launch software determine the popularity of a system. Looking at the success of the DS, the Wii (so far) and the PS2, the answer is clearly No.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[KDR_11k]

Wii Sports is pretty high in the sales charts (Wii Play as well but that doesn't count since it's a 10€ game with a 40€ controller). It's sold separately in Japan but still sells to almost all Wii owners.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[Anonymous Coward]

it was picking up steam because Blue Dragon as released. Since then it's dropped back down to pre-Blue dragon levels

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[justchris]

The thing is, it only takes one breakout game to push a system past it's competitors. For the SNES, it was Street Fighter, for the PS1 it was FFVII, for the PS2 it was GTA3, and right now, for the Wii, it's Wii Sports in Japan (and Zelda in the US). However anemic you may think the launch of the Wii is, in NA Zelda has sold to over 80% of all Wii owners, which is a massive, massive attach rate for a game, even at launch. In Japan, Wii Sports (which doesn't come packaged in like it does in NA & EU) has sold to over 75% of Wii owners. How can you figure it's not a system seller with an attach rate like that?

In comparison, the highest selling PS3 game (the one Gundam game, I forget the exact name) has sold to just over 20% of all PS3 owners.

I don't recall the 360 launch numbers just off the top of my head, so I can't really compare them, but I know for certain the DS didn't have a single game at launch with an attach rate greater than 45% in Japan.

Right now, the Wii has won the first battle of the 'console war'. There's still a war to be fought, and between the recently released Wario Ware, coming Sonic, Mario Party & SSX, Nintendo seems to be brining the big guns. Sony only has VF5 and Gundam Musou going for it (which, admittedly, Gundam Musou is going to go over like Gangbusters in Japan, that will probably be the consoles first major system seller there).

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[jamar0303]

said PC probably doesn't have a Cell processor...

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[nickthecook]

I'll second that.

I've got a PS3 and 3 games as well: Resistance, NHL 2K7, and Dark Kingdom. While Resistance is great, and well worth the money, Dark Kingdom is awful. As for NHL 2K7, it's more fun than any other game I've ever had, but it has a problem where it crashes when you're playing a season; sometimes 10 games in, sometimes 30, but once it happens to you it will happen every game that season.

I'm disappointed in the game lineup, but I do think that next year at this time we'll be seeing some pretty impressive things coming out. The PS3 is a powerful, yet exotic, piece of hardware, and therefore difficult to learn to develop for effetively. Hopefully all the developers need is time.

Oh well, it spends more time running linux than playing games anyway. :)

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[aliquis]

What? The DS had better games than the PSP and Wii got an awesome launch line up. And both are very popular.

So of course it does.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[aliquis]

Since it have the same graphics and so on aswell I would assume both games are more or less exact copies of each other but with different control schemes.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[atomicstrawberry]

Yesterday 1up quoted Kojima in an interview saying he was looking at 360 and PC development.

Metal Gear Solid was PC and PS1. MGS2 was Xbox, PC and PS2. The only reason that MGS3 ended up an exclusive was that by that stage the writing was on the wall, and there was really no reason to go multi-platform given the massive install base the PS2 had.

MGS4 will end up being a 6-month PS3 exclusive. Why release for a single system with (by then) a 5-6 million install base when you could release for both of the high-tech platforms and hit a 20+ million install base? Unless Sony has ponied up cash to keep it exclusive or they've somehow purchased Konami, the developer owes their loyalty to whichever platform or platforms which has the most potential profit for the money they spend developing it.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[PeelBoy]

Ah that's right I do remember that. I saw it but didn't read it. My bad.

I wasn't quite sure about how exclusive it would be. The quote I am thinking of is probably a year or older and I'm pretty iffy on what he actually said. I just remember that he showed interest in the Wii but the game probably wouldn't come to the Wii because of their contract with Sony or something along those lines.

Ah well whatever. Thanks for pointing that out it slipped my mind.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[geminidomino]

I seem to remember the DS launch lineup (and for almost a year after that) being pretty lame.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[MeanderingMind]

I read your comment, and quoted a specific section I found error in. Namely the idea that the Wii has anemic launch software in Japan. I believe I provided sufficient evidence to the contrary. The GP did as well. If you'll look at the third image, you will not see any games on the shelf.

Additionally, nowhere in your GGGP post did you posit the question you are now asking. You did make a statement to the effect that the PS3 and Wii are selling on potential alone, but given the evidence presented that statement (at least concerning the Wii) seems to be refuted.

To answer your question, no. Launch software does not determine the overall, long-term popularity of a system. However, it is a determining factor in short-term popularity. You would be hard pressed to make a good argument that the PS3 would not have benefitted from having a complete MGS4 or FFXIII at launch.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games

[DDLKermit007]

Yeah, and you get access to the cell processor? Unless I'm wrong you get Linux treating the PS3 like a PPC system through the hypervisor which hands things off to the processors.

Holy shit

[LordVader717]

Wow, that's how much I paid for my Wii in Europe.

Start of a trend?

[Hennell]

I wonder if this will get Sony thinking at all. Technically they won't make a difference in profit from stores loweing prices, but if all shops start doing that and refusing new ones, its got to be bad news.

However Sony saying they won't lower prices means the only way you'll get a reduction any time soon is shops acting independently.

Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[Animats]

Yes, check out eBay prices. The 20GB units are now selling below retail.

Remember, price is not what the seller is asking. The price is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. When it won't sell, the asking price isn't a real price. eBay makes this so obvious, but it's also true in retail; if there's a huge stack of unsold stuff, the price is going to drop.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[Anonymous Coward]

By the same token, the listings for my city (Montreal, Canada) on craigslist haven't had many PS3s for sale since people started selling them at cost. But people are still selling Wiis for $100 to $130 more than the store price.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[ivan256]

But people are still selling Wiis for $100 to $130 more than the store price.

This is still true in Canada (most of the eBay listings seem to be selling to Canadian buyers too), but in the US, the Wii shortage is pretty much over. For example, the local Target near me has had between 3 and 6 of them in stock the last three times I've been in there.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[PeelBoy]

huh Wii shortage over in the US? Not even close. I'm sure there are some out there in some cities but they aren't easy to find in most of the US.

Didn't you read any of the stories from this weekend about all the people lining up at stores to get Wiis? Tons of people lined up to get a Wii last sunday (all over the US).

They sold out FAST here in my town. I heard of some stores having in the 40 to 60+ people lining up for 20 or so Wiis.

If you got Wiis near you grab me one please? I still can't freaking find one :(

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[Kamots]

Where're you at? Cause in my part of the US (DFW area in Texas) it's still nigh impossible to find a Wii. Me and a couple other coworkers have all been trying for a couple weeks now with no luck.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[AvitarX]

Where I am Target had held the Wii for over a week and a half (as in no new ones coming in) and then sold them all last Sunday.

They had 42 in on that Sunday and all of them were accounted for before opening at 8:00 am (though only minutes before).

Best Buy, and Circuit City both had done the same thing, when I drove by at 8:30 both had long lines hours before opening (11 and 10).

So at least in my area the Wii is still in very short supply.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[ivan256]

Where I am Target had held the Wii for over a week and a half (as in no new ones coming in) and then sold them all last Sunday.

Why do stores do that? How does it benefit them at all?

The Target in my area doesn't seem to do that... Of course, they seem to have a steady supply on the shelf, so maybe they don't feel the need.

I live in the sticks, BTW... My local Target is in Leominster, MA. Closer to the city the situation may be different.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[cableshaft]

I live in the SW Chicago suburbs, and I can't find a Wii anywhere I go. Granted, I'm not trying too hard to find one, but whenever I go to the local Gamestops, Targets, Best Buys and Wal-marts (about once a week apiece), they never have one in stock. I just checked again last night.

A shortage is not over until a consumer can go into three major retail shops that would normally have the item and be relatively certain to find that item in one of them, IMO.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[AvitarX]

I too wonder why a store would do that.

they advertised in the circular they would have them, but none of us in line even went to the rest of the store, so there was no non Wii sales at all. They also did nott have any extra wii-motes 9only nunchuck, and classic) so it was all kind of stupid.

On the other hand i was able to get my litttle brother a Wii because of it, so I shouldn't complain. Wal-mart s doing it for next week too, so that is pretty much all major electronics retailers (no sears or k-mart) that think it is a good idea.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[arodland]

Your Target is apparently nowhere near my Target. My target sold their stock of Wiis in 6 minutes after opening on Sunday, and now they're out again until whenever.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[Krakhan]

Wiis are still hard to get in my part of town in Canada as well. However, I was lucky and managed to get one at just the right time. Question that maybe someone working in retail can answer: Is there a reason that you do not put people on a waiting list for Wiis? Would this not save people from calling every day asking if there's one in? Does the store get any benefit from not doing this at all? Thanks in advance.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly.

[LKM]

Where I live (Switzerland), Wiis still seem to be unavailable. I was at a big electronics retailer last week, and all they had was an empty box which said "sold out."

I have no clue how often new Wiis arrive here. Most of my friends who want one have been able to get one by now, but general demand still seems to be higher than availability.

Ah, schadenfraude

[spun]

Leave it to the Germans to come up with a word for "Pleasure taken in witnessing the deserved suffering of others." Most of us are genetically programmed to find fairness and justice pleasurable. When someone gets away with something unjust or unfair, it hurts us a little. Conversely, when their uppance comes, we get a little thrill of pleasure. This isn't actually a bad thing.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[badboy_tw2002]

I'm sorry, how is Sony making a video game console and selling it for a high price unfair or unjust to you?

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[spun]

It's not. Them fucking over loyal customers, lying, acting arrogantly and still expecting us to buy their overpriced console is unfair. That's why it feels good to learn that people aren't buying.

Of course, this all hinges on whether you think the things Sony did were unfair. One person's schadenfraude is another person's callous mockery.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[Grey Ninja]

It's not the price. It's all the bad things that Sony has done. They have been arrogant as hell the whole time with the PS3. They've insulted the fans, and now the fans are enjoying watching them take a beating.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

1) Driving lik-sang.com out of business
2) Installing a rootkit on customer's computers

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[voice_of_all_reason]

It's unfair for executives to make -- for lack of a better word -- "bonehead" decisions for many reasons:

1) Regular employees who through no fault of their own will be laid off when time comes to trim back after this craptastrophe

2) Older/retired founders groaning in exasperation and wondering "wtf is this shit!!!11"

3) Customers and fans who are deprived the potential of at least a whole generation.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[badboy_tw2002]

I guess it is someone's opinion whether they feel screwed over, but I still fail to see how Sony setting the price high on their next console is screwing over previous customers. Its not like they're disabling your PS2s and _making_ you buy their expensive new console to play your old games. People with monopolies do screw you over with pricing - I'd definately see your point if you were talking about Microsoft losing out to Linux or something, but at the point where you can say "No thanks, I'll get a Wii or 360 or upgrade my PC for the newest and greatest games" I don't see how they've treated you unfairly. But to each his own I guess.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[spun]

No one is saying it is unfair for them to TRY to get whatever they want from us. As I said, it's the rootkit, the DRM, lik-sang, etc., et multiple cetera that make people dislike Sony. Thus, when Sony fails people are happy. People ARE saying, "No thanks, I'll get a Wii or 360 or upgrade my PC for the newest and greatest games" and not only do they feel they've made a betetr choice, they feel they are doing their part to snub a prickish company. At least that's how I see it.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[Lemmy Caution]

Well, I wouldn't call it "unfair." I'd call it "poor product design" or "flawed market analysis." Us not being able to afford Playstation 3s hurts them much more than it hurts us.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[PeelBoy]

I agree with all you said but for me the best part is them getting a shot in the mouth after all of their cocky attitude. Their execs have been so arrogant and cocky about the PS3 it's fun watching them get put in their place. The consumers have spoken.

I compare it to a college (american) football rivalry (or any sports rivalry. the red river shootout/rivalry in my case). You go to the game and listen to all of the cocky fans for the other team talk about how their team is going to stomp you because their team is better and their coach is better and how the previous year was a fluke etc etc. Such arrogance. When your team goes in there and whoops them it feels so great. It makes me wish I could rewind to before the game starts so I can tell those fans exactly what to expect so I can hear them laugh like I'm some kind of idiot and enhance that "crap my team is losing -- and that ass hole fan for the other team was right" feeling they'll get while they watch their team lose. hahaha suckers. of course some times in the end they get the last laugh. ughh.

Nothing unfair has to happen for me to feel that way. It's just fun watching cocky people get a nice dose of reality some times.

It's not like this hasn't happened to Nintendo before. Their cockyness is probably most of the reason the Sony PS did so well in the first place. It's history repeating its self amd Sony apparently forgot to read the History book.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[StikyPad]

Schadenfreude: Seeing someone try to use an important sounding three syllable word and spell it wrong.

Enough with the foreign word memes. "Schadenfreude" is the "chique" of 2006/7.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[LKM]

You should go back to Kindergarten, or else I'll wage a Blitzkrieg on you, you little ersatz word Nazi :-P

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[geminidomino]

Schadenfreude: Seeing someone try to use an important sounding three syllable word and spell it wrong.

*nudge nudge*
4 Syllables.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[sesshomaru]

It was used on the Simpsons, therefore it is fodder for Slashdot. Lisa even defined it for Homer.

I, for one, welcome our foriegn word using overlords.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[vega80]

No, you misunderstood. Schadenfraude means "taking joy at someone else's suffering." The poster is saying the poster is taking joy in the fact that Sony is suffering because Sony was so arrogant. Sony is getting their comeuppance, not customers.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[StikyPad]

I just assumed English speakers would be too lazy to pronounce the hard "de," since they can't be bothered to look up the correct spelling...

Re:Ah, schadenfraude

[Anonymous Coward]

*nudge nudge*
The closing tag is spelled </blockquote>

Yeah the discussion probably went something like..

[The MAZZTer]

Stores: Hey, will you guys buy back X number of unsold units?

Sony: Pfft! We're SONY. Our systems sell like hotcakes! You won't NEED to sell any back to us!

Stores: Oh ok.

wow

[joe 155]

$329 is cheap, that is pretty much the same as what a wii costs here (in the UK a wii is £179), if only I could get one imported here at that price it might be a cheap way of getting a blu-ray player (and of screwing quite a bit of money out of sony in the process) but they don't seem to like the idea of consumers being able to use the free market to their advantage.

As I understand it though Sony must be losing about $100-200 on each one of these... I think that they might have made some mistakes

Don Quijote?

[RyoShin]

Japanese bulletin board 2chan reports that this at other Don Quijotes as well.

The fictional character who attacks windmills now owns a number of Japanese video game stores?

I'll be damned, that guy gets around. Maybe he heard about Godzilla...

Re:Don Quijote?

[kumanopuusan]

Don Quihote is a discount store here in Japan. Understandably their stores have a windmill theme, but for some reason the Don himself has been turned into a penguin.

Re:Don Quijote?

[MoriaOrc]

It's actually a super market with a tendency towards stocking cheaper stuff. Think a really big "everything's a dollar" store (except not literally).

Re:Don Quijote?

[RyoShin]

This is quite possibly the most hilarious thing I've heard all day.

And I've been reading the DailyWTF archives.

Thank you for that. The mental image of a penguin attacking windmills will stay with me for days to come.

2ch, not 2chan

[Mprx]

The article references http://2-ch.net/ but calls it http://2chan.net/. 2ch is text only and more popular, 2chan has images. Often people say 2chan when they mean 2ch, but they are two different websites.

Re:2ch, not 2chan

[Mprx]

That should have been http://2ch.net/, not 2-ch

Re:2ch, not 2chan

[Goaway]

To nitpick your nitpick, if a japanese person says "2chan", it is obvious that he is referring to 2channel. 2chan.net is always called "Futaba Channel". The confusion only exists among western users.

US Retail price drops?

[EveryNickIsTaken]

I wouldn't be completely surprised if US retailers follow suit in order to get rid of inventory. A relative of mine is an electronics dept Mgr. at a Target. Apparently, they'll often get a shipment of 8-12 PS3's in, and that will satisfy the demand for 2-3 weeks. Also, he's told me that clueless people are STILL coming in, seeing the stock, and buying them to put on e-bay. Of course, that's probably why they get at least one unit returned every week.

Re:US Retail price drops?

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct me if I'm wrong...that means ebay is the only winner due to profits from listing products regardless if product is sold or not.

I'm going to buy a Wii eventually

[soft_guy]

Eventually, I plan to buy a Wii, but I won't buy a PS3. Even with a discount, they are too expensive.

Re:I'm going to buy a Wii eventually

[WillAffleckUW]

Eventually, I plan to buy a Wii, but I won't buy a PS3. Even with a discount, they are too expensive.

Oh, come on, at some point they'll sell PS3 units for $200 USD. Just think of all the Blu-Ray movies you're missing out on like ... um ... sorry, can't think of any.

Exclusive Titles

[the dark hero]

Hopefully they drop the price on the PS3 in the U.S. by the time some must-have exclusive titles come out(FFXIII) because im going to go for the cheapest PS3 possible when that happens, but only if they have a decent library. I would sure hate to miss out on the next Shaddow of the Colossus.

Re:Exclusive Titles

[jZnat]

Combine that with actual decent support for PS2 and PS1 games, and I think I'll end up getting one. Of course, the price needs to be a bit more competitive with the 360. I don't particularly care about getting a Blu-ray player (wouldn't buy movies in that format anyways; too expensive), so the reasons for getting one are really to replace my non-existent PS2 (can't play Guitar Hero anymore ;_;) and for a system that should at least be getting good games (but still hasn't).

I usually end up owning all the consoles in each generation, but who knows if the PS3 can survive long enough for me to do that.

Re:Exclusive Titles

[justchris]

It's currently not possible to play Guitar Hero on the PS3. Hopefully they will make a Guitar that uses Bluetooth so that you can do so, but until then, well, you could play it, but you'd have to use a Sixaxis, and that control scheme throws me all off.

It Might Sell if...

[Rev Jim (AKA Metal F]

they had some #$@# games worth playing on the thing. I saw a mountainous stack of PS3s the other day at Best Buy. I thought of the $600 price tag, then I thought of Resistance:Fall of Man and then I couldn't think of anything else but $600. What kinda nut is going to pay that and not have anything to play that is worth a #$%@ If they would have just got half a dozen or so exclusive titles that all were of a calibre equal to Resistance:FOM or better they wouldn't have to drop the price cause the games would move the system. Why they haven't realized this is indicative of just how out of touch they've really become with their market superiority they've enjoyed for nearly a decade. And after recently finishing FFXIII and FFIII - I'm neck deep in Zelda:TP, Okami, Bully, Castlevania:POR, Gears of War, and NWN2 (among others) - I barely have time to get them completed let alone go 'gee, I really need to play Resistance:FOM for $650 - I don't think so...it's just not a good time to get a PS3 and they have no titles.

Re:It Might Sell if...

[Thraxen]

People always make that point, but it's not really a very sound argument. You aren't paying $650 just for RFoM. It's not like RFoM is the only game you will have to play for the entire life of the system. You'll get the next MGS, God of War, Rachet & Clank, FF, etc, etc, etc, etc... that everyone who waits will get to play. Early adopters just pay more to have the system earlier. And if you have an HDTV you also have a quality Blu-Ray player to use.

Re:It Might Sell if...

[MeanderingMind]

Agreed. Unless you have some mystic power that tells you the only game you will ever buy for the PS3 is RFoM it's a somewhat flawed argument to say "$600 just for RFoM". Other games will come, and most people will expand their library.

However, I think the unspoken implication is "$600 just for RFoM right now". Maybe I'm giving the GP too much credit. Still, if RFoM is the only game you'd play on a $600 PS3 were you to buy one now, is this worth not waiting for new games and/or a price drop?

Re:It Might Sell if...

[ProppaT]

Yeah, well, I paid $300 to play Twilight Princess. Anything else that comes out (and I'm sure there will be tons of things that come out) will make that initial investment even better. The key is, $300 wasn't too much for me to put down at once for 2 fun games and the promise of multiple other titles I'll have fun with down the road. $650 is a VERY LARGE initial investment. That's putting $650 down right now for one game, with promises of more games to come in the future. I could have much more fun spending that $650 elsewhere NOW and picking up a PS3 when it depreciates.

Re:It Might Sell if...

[PeelBoy]

Sure so why not wait until those games come out and hope that the price of the system has dropped? Why spend that money now for only 1 game especially when you have tons of other games you're playing and maybe can't afford the $600.

Also $600 isn't accurate anyway because who honestly just walks out of the store with the system and a single game? Even then you'd probably be over $700 (assuming you get the 60 gig version) plus better cables and maybe another controller or two maybe some cables to charge the batteries (not sure how all that works on the PS3 but for the 360 the chargers are hard to live with out at this point).

Personally I wouldn't walk into a store and buy a PS3 unless I had $1,000 in hand but that's just me. $800 would be my minimum.

Re:It Might Sell if...

[justchris]

Well, to be fair, the Playstation brand has never had a lot of really good games at launch. Because Sony depends so heavily on 3rd parties, they're at the mercy of 3rd party dev schedules.

Microsoft handled this problem by buying some developers and pushing stuff out the door early on.

Nintendo is one of the most prolific game development firms in the world, and they had a lot of content prepared for launch, so they're always going to look better out of the gate than the competition.

This bad press is a blow for Sony, but it's not a blow they can't recover from. Unfortunately, they're almost entirely dependent on 3rd parties for that recovery...unless they can somehow manage to push GT5 out before 2009.

Re:It Might Sell if...

[daniel422]

Yeah, and people always make your same point, but it's not a sound argument either. It's called system sellers -- games that make you want to buy a system -- that justify it in your mind. Buying a system EARLY in the anticipation that some exclusive or great game will come out later is plain stupid. At best you've ponied up the highest amount of cash for a system you're not really happy with because it has no decent games yet, and at worst you never even get the games -- because they're vaporware. Now I'm not saying that situation (game vaporware) happens very often, but the fact is most people will wait to buy a system until there are decent games for it in decent numbers.
I've bought damn near every game system since the Pong came out and for some reason I'm still waiting on BOTH the Wii and the PS3. I've got my 360 keeping me busy (along with many other distractions since the PS2 came out -- our entertainment space has changed) and there frankly aren't enough decent games on either system for my tastes yet. Certainly not enough to justify their pricetags. So I can wait for more games to come out, and prices to go down, and then I'll buy -- and enjoy the system without wondering how I just dropped $650 just to play that one game for 6 months. Yeah, yeah -- there will be other great games for sure, but my point is that's how most purchasers look at the initial cost of the system: It's a big hit to the pocketbook.

Re:It Might Sell if...

[LKM]

It's not like RFoM is the only game you will have to play for the entire life of the system.

If the PS3 keeps selling like this, it very well might be the only game you will ever have to play for the entire life of the system.

Seriously though, you argument makes no sense. I these games ever materialize, and if they remain PS3 exclusive or are better on the PS3 than on other consoles, and if they end up being good games, I can still buy a PS3 and it'll be cheaper than buying one now. Possible future games are no reason to buy a console.

Re:It Might Sell if...

[LKM]

Hey, if you bought Pong, you need to buy the Wii and Wii Play. It contains a modern version of Pong, and probably doesn't cost much more than Pong cost when it came out :-)

Supply still spotty

[DogDude]

I've got $600 bucks burning a hole in my pocket because I STILL can't get my hands on a PS3 in my area! There's definitely not a surplus of these things yet.

Re:Supply still spotty

[EveryNickIsTaken]

Where are you located at, and how hard have you been looking?

Re:Supply still spotty

[RockClimbingFool]

There are lots of PS3's available in Houston, TX. Also, I went to Tuscon this past weekend, and there was plenty to be had there as well.

Re:Supply still spotty

[AKAImBatman]

Obviously, you're not trying very hard.

Merry Christmas:

http://www.ebgames.com/productmerch.asp?groupid=63 5

Both the 60 GB and 20 GB are available, unbundled. Just pay shipping. Alternatively, put your zip code in and see if any local stores have some. According to their site, just about every Gamestop in my area has them.

Re:Supply still spotty

[MeanderingMind]

Things are similar in the Dallas area. My coworkers and I noticed stacks of the things lying around at various retailers when we picked up our copies of WoW:BC.

Re:Supply still spotty

[MoriaOrc]

I'll give the grandparent one thing, there are places where they aren't everywhere yet. For example, try my zip code (92656) on the ebgames store list and you have to go 22 miles before you get a store that has any in stock for the 60GB model , or 10 miles for the 20GB. The drive for the 20GB isn't that bad, but it'd be a pretty dedicated person who'd drive from here to the stores with the 60GB to buy one.

Although, I'd think the area I live in would be on the lower end of the "PS3 availability" spectrum, seeing as the ratio of people with too much money to the rest of the population is higher then most of the US.

And of course, I've seen PS3s around now and then when I go to an electronics or games store. Most people who are actually looking for one probably could have found one in my area by now.

Re:Supply still spotty

[reyalpdemannu]

You must have some horrible traffic there! I drive 21 miles just to get to work every day, so 22 miles to pick up a PS3 doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I foresaw the overstock problem.....I'm waiting for the pricing to dip here so I can pick up some good F@H boxen. :)

Re:Supply still spotty

[_Hiro_]

Supposedly (As told to me by a friend, who heard from his co-worker, so apply appropriate amounts of salt...), the Best Buy in Canton, OH had a half-pallet (Think waist-high) of PS3's sitting doing nothing last week.

Not sure if they've sold through by now or not, but that's an awful lot of units to be sitting around.

I'll have to peek in the Electronics department at K-Mart on the way home tonight...

Re:Supply still spotty

[Turken]

For example, try my zip code (92656) on the ebgames store list and you have to go 22 miles before you get a store that has any in stock for the 60GB model , or 10 miles for the 20GB. The drive for the 20GB isn't that bad, but it'd be a pretty dedicated person who'd drive from here to the stores with the 60GB to buy one.

At first, I thought you were crazy for thinking that 22 miles was a long way to go. Then I looked at your zip code, and realized that you're simply crazy for living in southern CA.

In the REST of the USA (except for maybe NYC, Chicago, DFW, etc) a 22 mile drive is nothing major at all. As other posters note, MANY people drive this far (or further) in their commute every single day. As for myself (zip code 14802) its over 30 mile as the crow flies to the nearest gamestop/EB regardless of whether they have units in stock, and the roads around here are anything but straight. Realistically, it's a 40-60 mile drive depending on which area I want to look for one. Fortunately the traffic is such that the drive only takes an hour or so.

Anyway, the point is that if a person is dedicated, they CAN find a PS3 today in the vast majority of the lower 48 states if they really want to. The same thing can't necessarily be said for the Wii. For one of those, you could spend an entire day going from store to store and still not find one.

Re:Supply still spotty

[RockClimbingFool]

What's even better is my wife and I went with her parents to a Best Buy in Tuscon, AZ to try and buy a Wii.

They didn't have any in stock, but they said they were getting a shipment in the next day (Sunday morning).

So my in laws went to Best Buy at 8am and waited in line with over 150 other people. The first 48 got Wii's, the rest didn't.

That should say something about how well the Wii is selling, at least in Tuscon, AZ.

Re:Supply still spotty

[MoriaOrc]

I'll use this to reply to both the people who said "22 miles isn't that far." I realize a lot of people drive further every day (some people even do those kinds of commute around here). My commute is actually a good 30 miles (for there and back - 15 one way) daily, and it was a few more over the summer (internship - I'm still finishing up college).

But to drive that far in the kind of traffic we have around here (Not just Southern California as the you noted, but Orange County) during any time when most people aren't at work (and the store would be open) is a nightmare. In the morning or the afternoon, you're lucky to get anything but stop-and-go traffic on the freeways. Mid day and evenings aren't as bad, but it's still pretty crowded and the people aren't any saner. And of course, streets are poorly laid out and usually over crowded wherever you.

There's a reason there are a good twenty stores between my zip and the store with the 60GB model. And it's not JUST that we're lazy.

Re:Supply still spotty

[Anonymous Coward]

Just jump onto the metro train... or does it not go out to orange county yet? ;-)

Oh well, you shouldn't have sold off your transit system to General Motors back in the day...

Who is losing money

[llZENll]

I have read many sources saying consoles sell for like $1 over cost to the retailer. Wouldn't they be losing a lot of money doing this?

Re:Who is losing money

[operato]

they make money from the other stuff they sell for the console

Re:Who is losing money

[Crasty]

As an ex-retailer, although not part of a big chain, I can tell you that when something you bought for say, 200 dollars is not selling well and there is very little demand for it, you are very tempted to sell it for $150, even if it's retail price is over $200. At some point, you realize profit is not and option, and it becomes a matter of mitigating loss.

The "new sales" video game market is not a good place to retailers, whether people want to admit it or not. Spending $44-46 on a game to sell it at $49.99 is not a happy prospect on most games.. throw in the occasional total bomb, and it becomes a very hard business to succeed in.

Re:Who is losing money

[kinglink]

And thus the reason why retailers now have the option of returning the games to distributors.

See Atari 2600's ET for past issues with these rules.

Re:Who is losing money

[KDR_11k]

I'd assume they'd spend more on storing that inventory than they lose because of this pricedrop.

Re:Who is losing money

[_Hiro_]

This is very much based on contract / agreements between the retailer and the wholesaler / manufacturer.

Some do allow returns. Some do not. It's not a universal agreement of any form.

Re:Who is losing money

[Crasty]

Maybe the big stores have that option, but I can assure you that mom and pop shops most certainly have no recourse when a game (or system) tanks.

This is on Slashdot?

[gamer4Life]

Honestly, what's the point of this information aside from more FUD from Microsoft fanboys? Nevermind that there are other more technical-related aspects to the system, or *gasp* even positive coverage, such as the PS3 winning IGN's console of the year.

Besides, Kotaku and it's blogging network is well-known to be biased against the PS3 and Sony in general.

If this makes it on Slashdot, what's next? Do we get updates on price cuts of various technology products?

In any case, the bashers will bash away - no price cut means "teh PS3 is too expen$ive!!!", a price cut means "teh PS3 sux0rs!!! no 1 wants it!!!"

The question is, will prices rise when the games start coming out? When will Sony cut it's price for the PS3? When will Microsoft cut it's price on it's XBox 360, it's been over a year already.

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[Thraxen]

Actually, yes, I'm pretty sure price cuts for any of the consoles would be posted as they have always been.

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

"such as the PS3 winning IGN's console of the year."

Except that's not what the PS3 won; it won "Best New Console"; which IGN described as an award that is basically considering what the console could do in the future - not what games are currently available for it. That's pretty different than being the best console. See for yourself

Try to get your facts straight.

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[MeanderingMind]

I think the issue here isn't a price cut, but that stores independantly decided to slash prices. This isn't something that normally happens on either shore. Usually retailers are quite happy to sell at MSRP until finally there's an official price drop (however long it may be in coming). In many ways this is unprecedented.

I'm not claiming that a lot of fanboys wouldn't baselessly interpret an official price drop in a similarly negative fashion, but I am positing that there is reason to see this as both relevant and potentially bad news for the PS3.

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[nomadic]

Honestly, what's the point of this information aside from more FUD from Microsoft fanboys?

Microsoft fanboys?! Are you kidding?! This is slashdot, they're all Nintendo fanboys.

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[Osty]

In any case, the bashers will bash away - no price cut means "teh PS3 is too expen$ive!!!", a price cut means "teh PS3 sux0rs!!! no 1 wants it!!!"

Obviously the PS3 sucks on multiple levels. Take away one of those levels (price) and you've still got a whole lot of suck going on -- no games, piss-poor online services, crappy controller problems, etc.

The question is, will prices rise when the games start coming out?

Prices where? On Ebay? Maybe. In stores? It depends. If price cuts were done by the retailer, they could reasonably adjust the price back up to MSRP and explain the previous price away as a "sale". If Sony did the price cut, they'd catch hell trying to bump the price back up.

When will Sony cut it's price for the PS3?

Not for quite some time, I suspect. For several reasons:

• Sony wants the PS3 to last on its own far longer than the PS1 or PS2. While they went back on that one a bit and said they will still do a PS4, we don't know if the PS4 will show up in 5 years (standard generation time frame) or 10.
• Sony is losing a huge wad of cash on every PS3 sold, even at the $500/600 prices. Unless they're forced by market factors (nobody's buying, Microsoft drops 360 prices), expect Sony to keep the price as high as they possibly can for as long as they possibly can.
• Sony's ego won't let them be the first to cut their prices, as that would be tantamount to admitting defeat. This is the same company that suggested (via Kutaragi) that gamers would get second jobs in order to afford a PS3.

When will Microsoft cut it's price on it's XBox 360, it's been over a year already.

So? There's no rule that says prices must drop after a year. What incentive does Microsoft have to drop the price right now? 360s are selling quite well (everywhere but Japan, and even that's picking up with Blue Dragon) at the current price point, and there's still no real competition (Wii is complementary, PS3 is dead in the water). Eventually Microsoft will have to drop the price, but they're sitting in a very good position right now. They could wait until manufacturing economies of scale make it possible to drop the price by $100 and still break even or even make a small profit.

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[PeelBoy]

Oh right, give me a break. If this were happening to the Wii right now it would have been posted on all of the major sites including Kotaku, Joystiq and Slashdot. That news would have been too big of a shock not to be posted on every freaking game site. It's funny how things change. About 3 years ago it was all about making fun of Nintendo and bashing the GameCube by most people and game sites (not so much Slashdot though). Now that the tables are turned the Sony fanboys are hating it! You can make your cake but you can't eat it too?

It's funny that you ignore the fact that most sites DID post about the PS3 winning that award and DO post bad things about other consoles. Did you not notice all of the news about how bad the 360 was selling in Japan? Or all of the wiimote strap breaking issues? or the radio stations Wii contest where the lady died? (not that it's Nintendos fault. Don't blame the name. It could have been a 360 contest where they spin you around until the last one left alive gets a 360 or the Play Station of death contest where you run through a huge obstacle course called the Play Station and try not to be killed by the various deadly traps). The fact is that right now Sony is the one making most of the mistakes and Sony is the one whose console is not selling as well as it should.

And about that IGN award. It did get made fun of a bit by sites like Kotaku but for good reason in my opinion. It's an award for the best new console of 2006 but the reason the PS3 won is because it has the most potential in the future? WTF? It won an award for 2006 based on future on potential alone?! Besides isn't IGN notoriously bias towards Sony? Two can play at that game :P

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[PeelBoy]

About a price cut on the PS3: Let Sony answer that question for him.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/22/tretton-ps3-will -be-difficult-to-cost-reduce/

Don't expect it any time soon. There won't a price cut nearly as quickly as the PS2 got one and it won't be for nearly as much.

(Although if it doesn't sell well for a year that could easily change)

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention that the Zune was the portable audio winner...

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft fanboys?! Are you kidding?! This is slashdot, they're all Nintendo fanboys.

Commodore, surely?

</bitter Sinclair fanboy>

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Irony doesn't even begin to describe this situation. The PS3 is cheaper in Japan than anywhere else, and they still can't sell it! Now Sony is loudly proclaiming how awesome the European launch is going to be. Europe (the second largest and fastest growing videogame market) got shafted by Sony for the initial launch and is also paying a premium price (because Sony had to subsidize the cheaper Japanese price) and Sony still thinks the European launch will go better? I didn't know Sony made its own brand of Kool-Aid. This is their circular logic.
1) Sony: Gamers will buy the PS3 no matter what.
2) Reality: Gamers won't buy the PS3 because $600 is too much to play just one game.
3) Sony: People will buy it as a cheap Blu-ray player.
4) Reality: The public isn't buying Blu-ray.
5) Sony: Gamers will buy Blu-ray movies when they run out of games to play on their PS3.
6) Reality: Gamers aren't buying the PS3
7) Sony: Gamers will buy the PS3 no matter what. ....

Re:This is on Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel for you guys over there. You all get shafted a lot by game companies. It seems like companies are being greedy and taking advantage of your growing market in order to make a few extra bucks instead of helping the market expand more rapidly for a larger payout in the end. If companies charged regular prices for consoles and didn't delay new popular games for 6 months to a year after they get released in other regions Europe would become a cash cow.

I realize prices will probably be slightly higher anyway because of taxes and what not but you guys get shafted in many more ways than just that.

Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package"

[EXTomar]

(This is something Microsoft should do as well.) They can cram as much crap into the "high end package" and charge whatever they want for it. The problem Microsoft and Sony face is that their "Basic Package", which is supposed to be the bargain version, really isn't a bargain at all. Both of these consoles have a "Basic Package" that is too expensive and is reflected in their sluggish sales. Even though Microsoft can claim some sort of victory in shoving 10 million units out the door, neither of these are even close to where the PS2 and XBox where a year later. I see Sony heading down this same sluggish sales path unless the drop the price of their supposedly cheaper unit soon.

This is all a reflection of how horribly expensive console gaming has gotten. We might as well be spending our money on gaming computers instead.

Re:Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package"

[MemoryDragon]

Problem is, at the current rate, Nintendo will have sold around 10 mio Wiis end of may. The situation over here is insane, I have yet to spot a single Wii in one of the stores here in central europe since launch day. At launch day all wiis over here were sold out within minutes, and since then I have not spotted anything, but at least the situation has gone back to normal regarding the wiimotes and nunchucks, they can be obtained now almost everywhere (that has happend the last two weeks) The situation is equally bad with the component or RGB cables over here, even the third party cables seem to be sold out instantly.

The boxes must ship to the stores, but seem to be snapped up as soon as they arrive. Nintendo has won big so far over here, and given sonys pricetag of the PS3 of being roughly 620 euros which relates to 800USD I cannot see that changing, since many people over here do not earn that much compared to the USA (exceptions probably being some parts of England and some parts of Ireland)

So Microsoft might have a sweet first victory but by the mid of the year it might turn into a sour aftertaste.

Re:Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package"

[LS1 Brains]

They might have 10 million OUT the door, but 9 million of those came back IN the door -- to the repair center. I'm about to ship back Xbox 360 #3 and get #4 ... The 360 might be a better gaming console than the PS3, more fun, better online experience, blah blah blah -- but the damned things break far too often.

Before any MS fanboys start wadding up the ol' pink and lacys they're wearing, my unit is far from abused. Climate controlled house, standing alone in free air (both power supply and console). It never moves, its never dusty, etc. It just sits there, and it even works sometimes.

Re:Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package"

[Svenheim]

Hey, we Norwegians make British salaries look like teenage allowances.

Re:Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package"

[MemoryDragon]

Yes but the prices you oil guys have and also the taxes make Britain look like a tax paradise, it all evens out at the end ;-)

Re:Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package"

[Anonymous Coward]

"This is all a reflection of how horribly expensive console gaming has gotten. We might as well be spending our money on gaming computers instead."

I still can't find myself agreeing with that... the typical "kick-arse gaming PC" that PC gamers go on about being better than consoles is still more expensive than any current console and is going to cost more still in hardware upgrades to keep it kick-arse to keep performing nicely with all the latest and greatest games.

Re:Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package"

[PeelBoy]

I agree but I have to say I do like Sony's basic package better than Microsofts.

It's a package that you can live with. You can buy it and it'll work. We don't all need wifi or HDMI.

The 360 package isn't like that. There is no harddrive at all so you can't save games unless you buy a $40 save cart.

Seriously what's the point? It's completely worthless without spending $340 so why not spend $60 more and get a 20 gig drive?

At the very least I give Sony props for not doing it that way.

Re:Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package"

[LKM]

Agreed. I don't play on consoles because they're cheaper (considering game prices, they aren't). I play on consoles because it's simple. And also because I like the genres and franchises on consoles better.

Is that so?

[Goaway]

And to think I've been told, again and again, that the PS3 will sell "no matter what" in Japan, because it's made by Sony! It couldn't have been that those people were all talking out of their asses, could it?

Re:Is that so?

[meringuoid]

And to think I've been told, again and again, that the PS3 will sell "no matter what" in Japan, because it's made by Sony!

You know those comparison pics we keep seeing, of Wii boxes marked 'totally sold out' and PS3 boxes marked 'Please for the love of God take these things off our hands'? Where are the Xbox 360 boxes?

They're not there. Nobody in Japan wants them at all.

According to this article the PS3 has already sold more units in Japan than has the Xbox 360. Even though it's only been out a month.

The people telling you how the PS3 would surely sell in Japan were telling you that on the assumption that the contest was between Sony and Microsoft - in which case, Sony is a surefire winner. The whole Wii thing was unexpected - although given the enormous craze in Japan for the DS over the summer, perhaps it should not have been such a surprise.

Re:Is that so?

[Goaway]

The whole Wii thing was unexpected

No, this was well into the period when the Wii hype was at its highest.

Re:Is that so?

[GearType2]

yes, but most skeptics(like myself) assumed the wiimote to be a gimmick(like the dual screens of a ds).

No one expected that the #1 title for most wii libraries would be wii sports. Everyone thought red steel was going to be a mega hit.

Yes, the wii thing was entirely unexpected.

Re:Is that so?

[AliasTheRoot]

Everyone thought red steel was going to be a mega hit. Everyone that didn't know FPS games never sell in Asia.

Re:Is that so?

[Goaway]

You seem to be confusing "everyone" and "yourself" there. Just because you were surprised doesn't mean everyone else was.

Re:Is that so?

[Thrakkerzog]

Sure, the PS3 may be beating the xbox 360 in Japan. Unfortunately, the 360 is barely selling at all over there. That's like saying that your pizza is selling better than a turd sandwich, even though the turd sandwich has been for sale for over a year.

I Want One Badly, But...

[bym051d]

I was very excited by the PS3's release. I've been a PS and PS2 owner and extremely happy with both. I contemplated waiting in line to get a PS3, but decided against it. I'm now glad I did. Currently, there's only 1 game I want to play, R:FoM. I'm not eager to buy a PS3 for it because of the lack of a scaler in the PS3. I have an early HDTV that only does 480p and 1080i. I'm not spending $600 for a next gen system that allows only 480p on the game I want to play. I'm sure I'll have a PS3 for the release of FFXIII. I'm just not that interested now. If the PS3 had a scaler, maybe. IMHO, Sony dropped the ball by not providing a scaler like MS did *last year.*

Re:I Want One Badly, But...

[justchris]

You know, I have to wonder. People keep saying R:FoM is the best game on the PS3, and that if you want it, you have to buy a PS3. Maybe the reason the PS3 isn't selling is because there are a large number of people (including myself) who don't really like FPS games? I can appreciate them, and don't mind playing them with friends here and there, but other than Half-Life I wouldn't actually spend money on them.

Re:I Want One Badly, But...

[donaldm]

I live in Australia and will have to wait till March before the PAL variant comes out although most HD and SD TV's sold today can do NTSC and PAL. Even when the machine comes out I will not get it unless there is at least three or more games that I really want and since I like RPG's and Action Adventure there is little chance of that before late this year. I have looked at the Wii and except for Zelda I am not that interested. The Xbox360, well it is Microsoft but again there are very few games for it that interest me.

To me the PS3 delay is a plus because I am looking at buying a large screen HDTV late this year and if the Wii (plenty are on the shelves over here) and the Xbox360 deals are anything to go by I can score a high end PS3 plus HDTV and Sound system at a good discount and yes stores will do this, however you have to do your homework and be prepared to wait. I have plenty of excellent PS2 games and many more coming that will tide me over till late this year so I am not in any hurry.

With regard to your HDTV at 480p and 1080i, IMHO you got ripped off. The 480p is NTSC which is standard definition and the 1080i is what it can take but it will still scale down to 480p although the picture will be nicer than if was a basic SDTV (if your picture resolution is 720x480 it really is an SDTV). I have a so called HDTV (glass picture tube) with a refresh rate of 100Hz that can do 480i (NTSC), 576i (PAL), 720i and 1080i and it was marketed as HD ready although the picture is much much better than any SDTV at 50Hz, in fact my PS2 and Gamecube produce an excellent picture.

All true HDTV's are 720 (low end 1280x720) to 1080 (high end 1920x1080) and preferably progressive scan (the "p"). I know some so called HDTV's have a resolution of 1024x1024 but basically they are 720p if they have progressive scan. Take a look at the following URL for a good intro to HDTV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_telev ision In fact DON'T buy a HDTV until you have read this and done some additional homework. A good rule of thumb is 720p is fine for 100cm (40in) and below but greater than 100cm try to get one at 1080p if your budget can afford it.

Just out of curiosity people writing from the US are saying they see many PS3 sitting on shelves. Maybe stores in the US have a policy of putting full boxes on display but all the stores I have seen in Australia and in Asia display empty boxes which are only for display purposes and the real stock is out the back where it is secure. Has anyone asked if those boxes are full or just for display?

For the record

[Knuckles]

Schadenfreude

Still Some Hope

[blueZhift]

There's still some hope here for the PS3. Afterall, even if the retailer takes a loss to clear the shelves of consoles for now, those buyers will likely be back to buy games once more good games come out. In the meantime, valuable shelf space is freed up for other products, like Wiis maybe.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

What's Spanish for "Engrish?"

[Guppy06]

"Japanese bulletin board 2chan reports that this at other Don Quijotes as well"

OK, yeah, it's technically spelled correctly, but that's just... wrong. It's like saying "Mejico" or "Tejas."

Re:What's Spanish for "Engrish?"

[Elementalor]

No, "Quijote" is correct, at least in Spain. Mexico and Texas is preferred over "Mejico" or "Tejas", but "Quijote" is correct Spanish

In fact, "Quixote" is not recognized in Spanish:

http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltGUIBusUsual?TIPO_H TML=2&TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=quixote

(Not in the dictionary)

http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltGUIBusUsual?TIPO_H TML=2&TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=quijote

(about "Don Quijote de la Mancha)

tsk tsk

[TB]

Kotaku and Reporting in the same sentence, thats new. The rumour of a drop in prices has been busted, there was a chain of stores doing a sale. No more.

Re:I Want One Badly, But... Advice

[WillAffleckUW]

I was very excited by the PS3's release. I've been a PS and PS2 owner and extremely happy with both. I contemplated waiting in line to get a PS3, but decided against it. I'm now glad I did. Currently, there's only 1 game I want to play, R:FoM.

I've got a PS1 and PS2 as well as a GC and 360 - bought the Wii for the games.

Unfortunately, since I'm not a sports fan or FPS gamer, I should have skipped the 360, as I only got it for one game, Fable (great game!) - All the rest are cross-platform games on that console.

I would wait it out a bit longer until the platform gets at least three excellent games you want to play. In my experience, shelling out a lot of cash - even if you can - will cause more regrets than waiting.

But Resistance: Fall of Man does look sweet. Wait till the price drops and there are three games you want to play, IMHO.

The 60GB has no MSRP in Japan.

[justchris]

Your argument has some small merit to it, but it ignores one fact. The 60GB PS3 has no MSRP in Japan, it sells for whatever a retailer thinks they can get away with. Therefore, there is no report of them lowering prices on 60GB PS3s, because there has been no consistent pricing on them to begin with. All retailers in Japan could have lowered the 60GB price by 25000 Yen, and no one would be able to say that for certain, without doing a full historical study on the pricing since launch.

Australian Launch

[Guzzitza]

It is true that retailers cutting prices of the PS3 may suggest Sony has some problems in people adopting the console. However I think a better indication will be the future launches coming up. Here in Australia, the PS3 will launch (due to delay) in March 07 - this means that the Australian public can make a much more informed decision when buying the console, taking into consideration the issues reported online, and in the papers. I think the public reaction here may give a good indication of how the bad publicity the console has received post-launch is effecting sales. .. Watch this space...

Re:Australian Launch

[MemoryDragon]

Dont forget Europe, the console is basically launched into a totally dead month, february/march/april is pretty much the worst season you can launch a luxury item into, people usually do not buy in those months unless in february when the sale is still going on. Add to that the price and the reputation the PS3 has gathered, and you will see a desaster. After initial strong sales the PS3 will rot in stores like a brick.

So funny

[fistfullast33l]

What's funny is that your post is actually informative and yet this guy got all your mod points for what is huge hyperbole.

Ahh, the mystery that is the Slashdot mod pool.

Sony's Mistake...

[cgenman]

In my view, Sony's major mistake was putting marketing in charge of development. Basically, Sony promised the moon and beyond, and delivered something that one would have realistically expected. However, they managed to deliver it in such a way as to alienate many of their customers and suppliers.

Let's list out their recent Mistakes individually:

Delivering a 6 hundred dollar console. Any rudimentary survey of the market would show this is just too damned much. But they wanted to expand the market for blu-ray, and somehow convinced themselves that it wasn't too much for the next generation of gaming. Then realizing the losses, they actually raised the price for launchs in other parts of the world. Again, not engendering affection from their customers.

Really bad statements about the cost of the console... like that people should want to get a second job to buy one. Or that the first 5 million would sell without any games anyway. Or... the list goes on and on. Somebody's PR guy should have been fired a long time ago with the string of "damage control" that only managed to alienate people who had been thinking about the system.

Repeated slippage of launch date. A little slide here and there is understandable, but if you haven't shipped dev systems out, you have no intention at all of hitting that date. This bit of tactical marketing enraged those customers most likely to line up and buy the console on launch day. Nintendo did the same thing with the N64, and paid the price.

Only 1 anticipated good launch title actually made it to launch. Ok, so that's not bad compared to the legions of 360's stuck playing Geometry Wars for a few months after launch, but it's still about 5 system-sellers less than promised.

Last-minute Sixaxis. This doesn't necessarily hurt the system, it's just a somewhat obviously rushed feature that is, currently, too laggy to be useful. Hopefully future games will find ways to use it despite the obvious shortcomings. In the mean time, they should have focused on improving the other parts of the system which could have used the polish time.

Promising a Live-equaling service, then shifting the burden onto developers while delivering a service that pales in comparison. A lot of 360's live stuff is integrated into the shell or on their servers, which takes a tremendous amount of the work off of the shoulders of developers. Sony, on the other hand, is making promises and leaving them up to us to fulfill. This fits EA's server model, but not many other people's.

HDMI waffling. If you're going to require the expensive version of your system and a potential HDTV upgrade to get the selling feature of your new movie format to work, don't waffle back and forth on whether or not it will be required, then pass the buck to movie studios. Either own up to it and require the protection, or don't. Leaving the people unsure if they need the upgrade or not simply makes them put off the decision.

Two words "Rrrrridge Rrrrracer!"*

* horrible presentations leading up to the system launch that basically insulted the intelligence of the audience. The hype machine was in full swing, but the pictures and games simply weren't congruous with what the speakers were saying.

The PSP UMD debacle. Sure, not directly related to the PS3, but taints them nonetheless with the faint wift of late 90's Sega. This was one of Sony's most public claims about the PSP, one which they staked a large portion of their credibility, and they lost an obvious fight.

Suing Lik-Sang out of business for selling imported hardware, while many of their most prominent executives were customers. Quite frankly, I've never worked at a gaming company that didn't purchase random devleopment bits from Lik-Sang at one point or another. Going after them for something as cherished as importing systems was bad PR amongst the development community.

Things weren't all bad for Sony. For one, Blu-Ray does provide a lot more breathing room for content on dis

Re:Sony's Mistake...

[*weasel]

"For one, Blu-Ray does provide a lot more breathing room for content on disks."

Breathing room that's largely irrelevant. The transfer speeds require just as much compression (if not more) and an increase in data duplication across the disk. Mix that with the high cost of content development this-gen -- publishers really don't want to pay for anything more than they have to.

Having 'space' is largely a non-issue.
(FMV-addicted franchises notwithstanding)

90% of Sony's cock-ups are things the general gaming public never knew or cared about.
What matters is that the PS3 costs $500-600 goddamm dollars, and gamers just aren't paying it.
Blu-Ray is the boat anchor keeping the PS3 from leaving the dock.

Without the ill-conceived tech marriage to BDR, the PS3 would instantly become $200 cheaper and they would be flying off the shelves.

Re:Sony's Mistake...

[cgenman]

Not to contradict too much, but I can assure you if the space was there it would be nice to spill out into it. I've heard from lots of other developers about geometry and texturing getting cut to fit on disk, and if nothing else you generally need to go through a mad dash at the end of shrinking textures and reducing audio size to fit onto a standard DVD. Heck, if you could duplicate data across the disk you could simplify the file ordering mess and simply double up into arbitrary digestible clumps, thus speeding access time.

Either way, having more breathing room, as a devleloper, would save us a lot of optimization time. So long as you don't feel like you "need" to fill it, and nobody seems to feel that, it makes things easier on us and better for the consumer.

You're talking about a system with 1/2 GB of RAM. There are only 8 "clump fulls" of RAM before you run out. Disk size is going to be an issue this generation.

Cell Development on retail PS3???

[LKM]

So, how do you develop for the PS3? Using Linux? Doesn't that run through a hypervisor? You don't actually have access to the cells when you buy nothing but a PS3, do you?

Re:Cell Development on retail PS3???

[Megane]

Actually you do. Well, all but one of them, for whatever reason, probably the "disabled for yield" SPU even though IBM hasn't had yield problems for months now. I recall that what you don't get access to is the GPU, or the PS3 game hard drive partition, and there are surely a few more things as well.

But you do get to play with the Cell, for what that's worth. I'd rather stick with a multi-core general-purpose CPU myself.

Re:I Want One Badly, But... Advice

[geminidomino]

Unfortunately, since I'm not a sports fan or FPS gamer, I should have skipped the 360, as I only got it for one game, Fable (great game!) Err... Why didn't you just snap up a used/refurbed Xbox then?

OK, I'm not THAT old...

[daniel422]

Well, to be completely honest, I didn't pay for Pong when it came out. I was pretty small at the time. The first system I ponied up my own cash for was the original NES -- and that involved a serious "family conference" at the time as to wether I could spend $100 bucks on a game system vs getting a computer.
The Wii, however, is first on my list of these last two consoles -- if only for Zelda. That's always been a system maker for me, I'm just disappointed by the seeming lack of great titles at launch -- Nintendo usually has more. That Zelda is non-exclusive to the Wii also has slowed my purchase.
Thanks for the rec :)

Re:OK, I'm not THAT old...

[LKM]

The Wii, however, is first on my list of these last two consoles -- if only for Zelda. That's always been a system maker for me, I'm just disappointed by the seeming lack of great titles at launch -- Nintendo usually has more.

Dunno... the Cube got Luigi's Mansion, the DS got Mario 64... The Wii's Zelda is awesome in comparison. But I agree, Nintendo needs to keep the good games coming until third-parties catch up.

Re:I Want One Badly, But... Advice

[WillAffleckUW]

Err... Why didn't you just snap up a used/refurbed Xbox then?

At the time, my son convinced me there would be more games for it, so even though I wondered about that, I went along and bought one.

Never again. Now, if it can't pass the Three Good Games rule, I won't buy it. No matter how good the cross-platform games are.

Re:I Want One Badly, But... Advice

[geminidomino]

Not a bad rule, that. Personally doesn't cut it for me, though. I use the int(Price/98) good games rule.

Re:I Want One Badly, But... Advice

[jchenx]

I would wait it out a bit longer until the platform gets at least three excellent games you want to play. In my experience, shelling out a lot of cash - even if you can - will cause more regrets than waiting.

Gee, if that's the case, then I should probably wait on the Wii, since Zelda is really the only game I want to play. :) Maybe Wii Sports, but that's a pack-in and it's debatable if that counts. The other Wii games are ... personally not that interesting to me.

That said, I think what a lot of people do is purchase systems on the promise of the console, as long as it's at a decent price point. Plunking down $250 for a Wii for me, even though there's only one game I'd like to play ... is not a big deal. I know a lot of people that did the same with the PS2 at launch. I can't say I'd do the same for the higher priced systems (360/PS3) though, and that's where your "three excellent games" rule makes a lot of sense. The 360 has already hit that for many folks. The PS3 still has a ways to go, although arguably VF5 and Resistance may now fill up two out of the three for many hardcore gamers.

BTW - Still no Wii around here. It looks like another couple of weeks, maybe, before it's really a "Gee, I'll pick one up on the way home" situation.

Re:I Want One Badly, But... Advice

[WillAffleckUW]

Really? I've found the following all to be good: Zelda, Rayman's Raving Rabbids, Excite Truck, Wii Sports (bundled), Elebits, and Trauma Center: Second Opinion.

Plus my new copy of Sims 2: Pets for the GameCube runs with wonderful graphics and close to nil load times and no glitches, unlike my prior Sims 2 games on the GameCube. I'm looking forward to Sims for the Wii (which I call Wii Sims), quite frankly.

I'm sure I'll buy a FRP at some point, but for now I'm good.

But, hey, I agree Red Steel isn't that great as a FPS, so I didn't buy it after I saw some of the reviews.

Re:I Want One Badly, But... Advice

[jchenx]

Really? I've found the following all to be good: Zelda, Rayman's Raving Rabbids, Excite Truck, Wii Sports (bundled), Elebits, and Trauma Center: Second Opinion.

Remember, games are all subjective. I've already read up on a lot of the games you've mentioned, and many of them are "not my thing". As the saying goes, "to each his own". I'm sure there are people that LOVE all the PS3 games, in that respect. :)

Plus my new copy of Sims 2: Pets for the GameCube runs with wonderful graphics and close to nil load times and no glitches, unlike my prior Sims 2 games on the GameCube. I'm looking forward to Sims for the Wii (which I call Wii Sims), quite frankly.

I've already played Sims 2 to death on the PC, and that just seems like a better platform for the game, thanks to all the user-content you can get for it.

Re:I Want One Badly, But... Advice

[WillAffleckUW]

Not disagreeing over the Sims 2 - better on the PC than any of the platforms, but the Sims for the Wii stuff I've seen looks as good as Sims: The Urbz which rocked.

I'm surprised you could find three good PS3 games, though. Unless you're a sports fan or FPS, in which case it's easier. I did say non-cross-platform, however. That's why I listed the Sims stuff last, it's cross-platform like Lego: Star Wars and other such.

Re:I Want One Badly, But... Advice

[jchenx]

I'm surprised you could find three good PS3 games, though. Unless you're a sports fan or FPS, in which case it's easier. I did say non-cross-platform, however. That's why I listed the Sims stuff last, it's cross-platform like Lego: Star Wars and other such.

Err, I hope that was a typo, because I never said I could find three good PS3 games. I was just saying that I'm sure there's someone out there that thinks that way. Now obviously, Sony wishes there were more people that thought like that ...

Going after LinkSang

[goldcd]

is the reason I will never ever buy another bit of Sony kit.
I'm a 30 yr old who doesn't seem to have grown up, I've got the 1080p TV with a stack of consoles beneath it and have trouble resisting anything new and shiny - surely the target early adopter market.
All the PS3 PR whoops I could excuse. I could excuse the price - I can afford it. Up to this point it was just a company with a product. Here's the product, here's the price, do you want to buy it? They weren't forcing me, it was just a potential transaction between myself and Sony
Then they shut down LikSang. I loved LikSang. I've never ordered a huge amount of stuff from them, just bits here and there, but I always enjoyed browsing their site and it was a little part of my life. Sony killed a little part of my life - my personal life - and it'd taint any business I will ever put Sony's way.