Slashdot Mirror


Measure Anything with a Camera and Software

Kevin C. Tofel writes "Using a simple concept, iPhotoMEASURE software can measure any objects you can take a picture of. Include a printout of a 7.5- or 15-inch square in the photo and the software can measure any distance or object in the pic to within 99.5% accuracy. Although geared towards contractors, there's any number of consumer usage scenarios as well. Enough to justify a $99 price tag? Jury's still out on that."

208 comments

  1. Expensive by MartinJW · · Score: 1

    $99 is a bit damn steep if you ask me.

    1. Re:Expensive by jackharrer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It targeted towards contractors, who will buy it from company's money or take from their taxes.
      No so expensive if you think about it in this way.

      --

      "an experienced, industrious, ambitious, and often, quite often, picturesque liar" - Mark Twain
    2. Re:Expensive by hal2814 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they're really targeting contractors, $99 is a bit too cheap. The perception will be that if there is a $1000 program out there that can do the same thing, it must be better than this little $99 program. Never underestimate a business' ability to blow money.

    3. Re:Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno, seems like they're giving it away, when you consider people will pay hundreds of dollars for MS Office when they can get OpenOffice for free.

    4. Re:Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      So short-sighted...

      Let's say you have 10 projects in the next year where this software would save you 2 hours of manual labor on each project. If you paid that manual labor anything more than 5 dollars an hour, this would be worth the investment. I'm surprised they aren't charging more. Perhaps even making an online service out of it and charging per use.

      Typical, though: "All software should be free!"

    5. Re:Expensive by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      pah, we had to write software to do this in the second year of my degree, and they're charging $99 for it?

      Anyone fool enough to shell out that much for this deserves everything they get.

    6. Re:Expensive by Funkcikle · · Score: 2, Funny

      If they're really targeting contractors, $99 is a bit too cheap.
      They should be targeting adult dating/hook-up websites like newbienudes.com. Let them install this software server-side, bolt it onto the picture uploading function and FINALLY all the problems regarding incorrect measurement will be solved! No more three hour drives just to get there and end up saying "Um...is that the WHOLE nine inches?".
    7. Re:Expensive by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Yeah, right. And you then released this software for the general public good?

      Perhaps those who would buy it aren't blessed with your amazing talents. You know -- the ability to write a program such as this in under four hours? That's what a low end contractor gets -- ~25 hr.

      Academia's lack of real world experience shows again.

    8. Re:Expensive by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      Especially considering it is easy to modify some openCV examples to get exactly the same results...

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    9. Re:Expensive by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      I could release it, or anyone else in the hundreds who did the same assignment over the years. tbh that never occured to me, much as was the case with almost all of my undergrad work.

      I would be highly suspicious of code written to completion in four hours. Code must be planned, written, thoroughly tested, then released. Anyone who claims to be able to do that in four hours is lying.

    10. Re:Expensive by jelle · · Score: 1

      "I would be highly suspicious of code written to completion in four hours. Code must be planned, written, thoroughly tested, then released."

      That would make you highly suspicious of Open Source... In Open Source, it's 'release early, release often', because the testing is done by your enthousiast users and yourself in parallel, and your users may actually turn out to be codevelopers to boot...

      If you would have released it, then maybe somebody else would have maybe taken it and integrated it into the gimp or sth. Or maybe not because it may not be ready/right for that...

      But not releasing it just guarantees that, well, nobody sees it...

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    11. Re:Expensive by rucs_hack · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am an open source developer, and have been so for many years, and being quite frank here, you're talking out of your arse.
      Four hours is not enough time to write anything of significance, and code *must* be tested, or the other people who take it to use have to do your testing and fixing for you before improving it and adding their own stuff.
      Not all bugs can be found, but if you haven't even tested for basic errors then your code is awful, and unlikely to get used.

      Releasing after a few days perhaps, or a week or so, once the basic code is sound, well that I've done.

    12. Re:Expensive by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's not very hard to do. I wrote something like this back in '98 time frame (in VB5 no less lol). I was still in college at the time, but it was for a company I worked for (hence not released to public domain). The software was for nursing homes and hospitals to track patients bed sores who were confined to bed. Take a digital image of the sore with a 1"x1" square in the pic and use that to extrapolate the size of the sore. Do the same thing next week and see if your treatment is doing any good or not.

      If you think about it, it's not very complicated. You have a known size in the picture based on the square and you just go from there. I didn't do distance at the time, but that would just be a bit more trig to calculate. One of the really cool features I had in that program back then was that you didn't need to have a cutout in the picture. If you had anything in the picture that you could draw a square around and tell me how big it was I could do a calculation from it. Of course having the 1"x1" square made it more accurate.

      So yeah, this isn't as magical as you seem to think it is.

    13. Re:Expensive by jelle · · Score: 1

      "am an open source developer, and have been so for many years, and being quite frank here, you're talking out of your arse.
      Four hours is not enough time to write anything of significance, and code *must* be tested, or the other people who take it to use have to do your testing and fixing for you before improving it and adding their own stuff."

      That's just bullshit. In many cases it takes MUCH less than four hours to make good code that is ready for release to the 'Open Source community'. If you think you should wait, test, delay, then you're not taking advantage of everything the community has to offer you.

      If you're waiting with the 'release' of code you intend to be Open Source, you're just hurting yourself by limiting your 'team' and your 'fans' to just yourself until the time you decide is 'release time'. Your 'team' and your 'fans' can be of tremendous help even in early stages of your code. Of course you're not required to release early, but you'd miss out on a lot of outside help if you did.

      A lot of projects have their raw development repositories online, being in cvs, svn, git, mercurial, trac, etc, and a lot of the code being committed to the on-line repositories of those Open Source projects has seen much less testing than 'four hours', and yet is released to the public and such direct access is very much appreciated by the 'team' and the 'fans' of the project.

      In fact, many projects also have mailing lists in which people sometimes post code that isn't tested at all: The code is posted for the purpose of discussion (request for comment). Sometimes that 'code' isn't even intended to even be compilable, but is still tremendously helpful to start the process of involving 'the team' to think about a certain issue.

      And a lot of those projects are very successful Open Source projects.

      People who just keep it all to their selves before talking to 'the team', they would very often be very disappointed that what they spent so much time on developing something: Using the wrong way to do it (according to 'the team'), or there already is another much simpler/better way to accomplish the same thing, or somebody else has been doing the same development and 'released' just one half-day earlier...

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    14. Re:Expensive by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      yawn...

    15. Re:Expensive by speculatrix · · Score: 1

      read Joel Spolsky's Camels and Rubber Duckies article on how to determine a price for things... at the end, you'll be wiser, but no better off in determining what price should be if you have a single product and a variable market!

      also of more general interest on how the price of items can be set is The Undercover Economist (indirect link to Amazon), where he touches on the dotcom boom and microsoft's monopoly.

    16. Re:Expensive by jelle · · Score: 1

      Yawn? You're the one who said 'I did that already' but has absolutely nothing to show for it, while iPhotoMEASURE is cashing in $99 a pop.

      Perhaps you should go back to sleep.

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    17. Re:Expensive by drsquare · · Score: 1

      The point about four hours is, that if you're paying a contractor $25 an hour, and this software saves him anything over four hours, then it's worth paying the $99.

    18. Re:Expensive by Pikoro · · Score: 1

      My open source developer could beat up your open source developer.

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    19. Re:Expensive by jelle · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the laugh ;)

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  2. How Long Before... by waif69 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ...someone writes an OSS version of this? Has anyone started on this yet?

    1. Re:How Long Before... by Falladir · · Score: 1

      This seems to be a VERY clonable technology.

    2. Re:How Long Before... by SteveAyre · · Score: 1

      It's a computer vison problem that has had loads of academic papers published telling you how to do it... it'd be pretty easy to make an OSS implementation of one from those papers if anyone's interested in doing so.

    3. Re:How Long Before... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      No kidding -- if I'd heard about this a few months ago I might have done it for a class project!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  3. Not practical. by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 1

    Yeah. I could *really* see your average general contractor using this.

    1. Re:Not practical. by Smidge204 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I dunno. I work as an engineer and I'm thinking something like this could be really useful.

      No matter how many times you go out to a job site to measure and verify things, something always comes up that requires you to go back. For this reason, we take a lot of pictures in hopes that the camera will catch something we might not be looking for at the time.

      I can't begin to count how many times I've counted bricks in those pictures to estimate distances. If I had software that could look at the image and provide measurements with 99.5% accuracy, that would be extremely useful. At $99 it would probably pay for itself after three or four uses just on time saved going back out to the site.
      =Smidge=

    2. Re:Not practical. by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You probably already have it.

      Autocad. and other CAD programs can. you open the photo as a background or item and then measure one known item. write down the numbers from that . now measure all that you are after (ASSUMING you have good lenses and are not using a fisheye or wide andlge lens that will screw it up.)
      and a simple calculator can do the rest for you.

      I can give you all the dimensions in the photo within 5 minutes doing that. accuracy at the edges drops fast because most contractors have crappy point and shoot cameras (Yes your $500.00 point and shoot is crappy) and not a decent DSLR and a non zoom good lens.

      Honestly I though every integrator and tech-savvy contractor knew how to do this. We estimate wire based on the same system. we go and take photos of the rooms with studs only and estimate with the photos and autocad.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Not practical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your approach is a whole hell of a lot more expensive then the software. AutoCad is godawfully expensive. $99 is pretty reasonable. And, presumably, it takes less then 5 minutes and no special skill to use this software, as opposed to a 2-year degree to be good at autocad.

    4. Re:Not practical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an example, custom counter-top manufactures have been using similar technology for years. You install your cabinets, the contractor clamps these inside and outside corner references on the cabinets and takes a few pictures. The contractor runs those pictures thru software that auto-recognizes the corner references, creates the layout and proper dimensions. A machine cuts the substrate or stone to size. A couple weeks later, you have a perfectly fitted counter top. This doesn't really save counter top makers time, but it does make measurements more accurate.

      A larger system to measure large buildings, etc would definitely save time and be more accurate.

    5. Re:Not practical. by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Contractors probably already own Autocad or something like it, not to mention probably have the requisite knowledge to perform this rather trivial function as well. If not, they won't be my contractor.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    6. Re:Not practical. by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      In my experience, contractors are just about as computer illiterate as they come (as a company, not individuals - most of the time). It's rare that they do CAD work for anything, and things like shop drawings and as-builts that aren't hand drawn are usually done by a drafting company that specializes in such things.

      =Smidge=

    7. Re:Not practical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are rigt. because nobody that builds building would have such a rare program like autocad. or autocad lt ($99.00) or other programs that are just not found in engineering and building industries.

      Engineers using autocad! What a HOOT!

      BTW: you are an incredible moron. Maybe if you actually Knew anything about what contractors do (real ones not the guy that calls himself a contractor) you might know thay all already have autocad.

    8. Re:Not practical. by Zackbass · · Score: 1

      Seriously, I can't believe the people discounting this. I do my work as a mechanical engineer and find myself in the situation of trying to measure pictures quite often. Just last week for example one of the people I work with took a snapshot of a very wild engine camshaft (almost rectangular lobes) and I wanted to find the lift, slope, and phasing. The shot was taken with severe perspective, looking down the length from one end. It's easiest to see the profile from this angle but it's a huge amount of work to scale the image by hand. $99 would be a great deal for something so useful.

      --
      You gotta find first gear in your giant robot car
    9. Re:Not practical. by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      I guess "contractors" covers a broad range of possibilities.

      Let's refine that by anyone doing architectural drawings that would have need of measurements to build something an addition. That significantly reduces the pool size.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    10. Re:Not practical. by LCAOMO · · Score: 1

      I've done this with MS Paint. All you need are a pointer, pointer coordinates, and a reference in the image. Any photo editor will work. It's good to have a lot of zoom (here Paint is not the best choice) so you can pick out exactly which pixel is on an edge.

    11. Re:Not practical. by mfm24 · · Score: 1

      Sketchup http://sketchup.google.com/index.html already has something that allows you to set the perspective based on horizontal and vertical elements of an image. You can then make a model based on that perspective. It will even use the photo as textures for the 3d model.

      There's a tutorial here: http://sketchup.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?a nswer=57655&ctx=sibling
      Sketchup's totally free from google.

      I'm guessing this could be automated by looking for dominant lines. You can only do this on a single image by making assumptions about the thing you're looking at (in this case, that it's made of box like structures parallel to the ground).

      --
      qaopm
    12. Re:Not practical. by dubbreak · · Score: 1

      I work in a government corp that manages bridges and this could be quite useful. Clearance are measured manually or via automatation (laser sensors on vehicles), but this is one way to verify data was attributed to the correct structure since there is image data for each structure. You always want to verify data from outside contractors and that bulk uploads were successful and translated properly into the database
       
      It would also allow engineers to get rough measures of distances and allow inspectors and area managers to gather measurement information with less work. Manual labour is $$$, so automating anything is good. For many instances this accuracy is good enough. For some items acurate measure via proper tools or gps etc is best, but often you can get away with "close enough".

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    13. Re:Not practical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Yeah. I could *really* see your average general contractor using this.

      So stop hiring the lowest bidder and watch your impression of "average" change.

      I worked in home renovations in the 90s. Done right, this software will sell at $99 like it's cheap because it is. As others have already detailed, the time saved doing estimates will pay the cost nearly immediately.

      The main calculation a contractor does is cost versus time. Buying tools, buying pre-fab materials (pre-primed trim, pre-hung doors, sash kits, etcetcetc), buying specialists -- a contractor runs that calculation constantly the same way a canny grocery shopper runs price versus weight while comparing packages.

      This software is perfectly priced. It'll be a no-brainer must-have for contractors. That market will saturate in about a year, and then the price will be reduced for the consumer market.

    14. Re:Not practical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just the crappy PAS cameras, even a $5000 or $10000 camera suffers from this problem. It has something to do with field of view, and something called the barrel effect or perspective distortion. Unless you have some camera with a magic othographic 0-degree FOV lens, you're never going to have plan-like accuracy in photographs.

      But it is possible to overlap and tile pictures or use as much zoom as possible to reduce the effect. A bit of a kludge, but that's better than nothing when you don't have plans to go from.

      Regardless I think it's silly that one would need special software to do this. If you have a known reference such as a yard or meter stick in the photo, it's not much beyond doing a bit of multiplication to figure out actual sizes. If the software really does anything special, it'd have to know the exif data and camera specs to determine focal angles and such, then it just might be able to compensate for perspective distortion of objects on a common plane.

    15. Re:Not practical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look into a program called PhotoModeler Pro, or just photogrammetry software in general. (I don't work for them, but it's really cool stuff.) While several times more expensive than this $99 piece of software, and not quite point-and-shoot (automated coded targets help; you just slap up these little circles all over the place and the computer software can find them later), I imagine it'd still probably end up saving you a lot of time and money in your business.

    16. Re:Not practical. by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      If the jobsite is distant and the budget does not permit trained people to be on site available full-time for survey duty, this looks like a good, cheap solution to a real problem (not accurate enough for detail work, though). It also can reduce the problem of "user variance" in dimension-collecting and field fudging due to bad weather, hard-to-access areas, etc. As-built drawings are notoriously incomplete/inaccurate/nonexistent.

      From an industrial process plant designer's perspective, this technology can be very useful when blocking out areas in the early stages of design and layout (say, for facility upgrades: evaluating tie-in points, accessibility, stuff like that).

  4. Unfortunately... by avalys · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I thought this was some kind of cool new perspective-based algorithm or something, but it turns out you have to be able to get close enough to the object to stick a label of known dimensions on it. The software justs compares the size of the label with the size of the object you're measuring. I'm not paying $99 for that.

    There are already a number of laser rangefinders with compasses built-in that can do the same thing using simple trig.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank.
    1. Re:Unfortunately... by jbreckman · · Score: 2, Informative

      It might have to do something trickier. If you look at their example:

      http://jkontherun.blogs.com/.shared/image.html?/ photos/uncategorized/iphotomeasure.jpg

      They measure objects that are two distances from the camera. (The garage, and the windows on the house which are a few feet forward). Since they are closer, they would appear to the camera as slightly larger, making the software inaccurate. So, either the software doesn't work, or it does do some trickery.

    2. Re:Unfortunately... by iangoldby · · Score: 1

      There may well be some trickery to perform perspective correction when the film/sensor plane is not parallel to the target plane, but I cannot see any way this could make accurate measurements on a plane outside the target.

    3. Re:Unfortunately... by jlf278 · · Score: 0
      I thought this was some kind of cool new perspective-based algorithm or something, but it turns out you have to be able to get close enough to the object to stick a label of known dimensions on it.

      Well if the price of rulers ever top $150, then these will be HIGHLY competitive at $99.

    4. Re:Unfortunately... by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      "The software justs compares the size of the label with the size of the object you're measuring. I'm not paying $99 for that."

      I thought $99 was a little steep to start with, but after seeing your post and reading the website and determining you're right, you have to run up to the object, stick the label on, then run back to where you were to snap the picture. That makes the software darn near worthless, for $99 they could probably make an entire camera with built-in rangefinder to figure out distance from object then it's all trig from there without any stupid sticky labels.

      Plus the fact they went with "iPhoto" makes me have serious doubts about the quality of the product. Any comany using i(Blank) for a product besides Apple is a poser trying to leech off Apple's success and 9 times out of 10 the product sucks.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    5. Re:Unfortunately... by krayzkrok · · Score: 1

      I would be very surprised if there wasn't a far more accurate and expensive way of doing this. I think what you're looking at here is simply a cheap solution for those who can't afford the high end software and hardware.

      For my PhD about 15 years ago (that long?!) I had a custom-built system to measure distances and dimensions (even speeds from one frame to the next) that employed the perspective differences between two cameras a set distance apart. Back in those days I had to develop each print separately onto an A4 sheet, measure reference points, and input the coordinates into a PC using a digitising tablet, then calculate everything using a software-written algorhythm written in QBasic. Took ages, but the result was accurate (I forget the exact figure, but it was less than 1% error and that was mostly due to manual errors in digitising and camera calibration). Essentially it enabled me to re-create points in three dimensions - I used it to measure flight speeds and distances. I haven't been following the "scene" for a long time now, but I'd be shocked if a real-time version didn't exist in 2007. Even in 1996 I saw a video system that used similar principles where the calculations were done automatically - still wasn't real-time, but it was heading that way.

  5. Good news by spellraiser · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... for all of us guys. The subject of how to measure with a with a tape measure has long been a controversial one, and thus the size debate has been marred by a lack of common consensus. This gadget will settle things once and for all!

    --
    I hear there's rumors on the Slashdots
  6. How to measure that square? by jfisherwa · · Score: 1

    Now where am I supposed to come up with a 7.5" square? I threw away my tape measure.

    1. Re:How to measure that square? by ZeroExistenZ · · Score: 1

      You hold your camera against a surface, draw two lines to indicate its length. Take the picture with those two lines in view, look up the dimensions of that particular camera to use a reference measurement.

      --
      I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
    2. Re:How to measure that square? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Now where am I supposed to come up with a 7.5" square? I threw away my tape measure.
      Presumably you're a geek, and the summary indicates you can also use a 15" square.

      CDs are known to be 5.25", so 3 of them span 15 3/4". Find your own clever approximation for 3/4" (probably just smaller than a quarter). I bet with 10 minutes, some string, and a pencil most people around here could give you a good approximation of a 15" square from that.

      From there, some nice simple bisection of two angles to get you a 7.5" square probably isn't rocket science.

      Ummm, anyway, just a thought in case you actually wanted to know. :-P

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  7. What If by Fist!+Of!+Death! · · Score: 1

    You take a photograph of a bathroom or kitchen containing hundreds of square tiles? Digi Target that baby...
    Seriously people - buy a measuring tape. Its not that difficult.

    --
    Nothing witty
  8. OSS equivalent? by Slithe · · Score: 1

    This is rather cool. Is there anything like this in the OSS world? I would not be surprised if there is soon!

    --
    ---- "XML is like violence. If it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough."
  9. Damn cheap in my book. by Shivetya · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My cousin does this manually, using pictures of job sites and items on known size, to estimate needs.

    $99 is nothing. If it can save material purchased for a big job it will most likely pay for itself instantly, not counting all the time saved photographing and measuring that is now with manual processing afterward.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by luckymutt · · Score: 0, Troll

      Regardless, some shmuck is gonna have to measure everything out by hand to make sure the siding is cut to correct size. But since it is not 100% accurate, then its trash. A GOOD contractor can stand in front of that house, (like in the example picture) with nought but a pad and pencil, can come up up with the same dimensions.

    2. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But since it is not 100% accurate, then its trash. A GOOD contractor can stand in front of that house, (like in the example picture) with nought but a pad and pencil, can come up up with the same dimensions.
      Bullshit. There is no way in hell that a contractor is going to look at a house from that distance and measure the windows and doors down to 1", unless he's the bionic man. You are talking out of your ass.
    3. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      You are wrong. The contractor could come up with usable estimates for the major objects, but this can do it for every object. I've done contracting and known some mighty fine ones and every damn one will say they won't stand by what they tell you without measurement.

    4. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by Joebert · · Score: 1

      But since it is not 100% accurate, then its trash.

      I GUARENTEE you, a homeowner would LOVE to see somthing like this compared to a guy in a suit who's "been doing this for years" walk around with a tape measure in the paint business.
      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    5. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by luckymutt · · Score: 0, Troll

      Sure a homeowner would love it...
      because its a gadget, not because it has any real value.

      Just because a consumer is willing to drop $99 on something because it is shiny doesn't mean it isn't a useless piece of shit.

    6. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by Joebert · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're just mad you didn't think of it first.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    7. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by jed_ir · · Score: 1

      Google SketchUp is a free download and it will do the same thing. You just import the image into the program environment. Double click it into place and then select the tape measure looking tool icon. The only caveat is that you need to have a good idea of the size of some object in the image. Then you measure that object by clicking on the one side and dragging it to the other point whose dimension you know. Then you type in that dimension and hit 'enter.' A little window will pop up, asking if you want to resize the model. Hit yes or ok, and it automatically adjusts the image to the same scale as the measurements you input. Then you can use the tape measure tool to get any dimension of the objects in the picture. You can then draw a box around an object and it will give you the area of the box or circle or any other object shape you draw.

      You can actually make modification plans on the image in 3 dimensions in full perspective and get measurements for your estimation of the whole project. So rather than spend $100 on that calculator, if you are a contractor, I recommend downloading Google SketchUp for free and using it. There is no limitation to its use except that for commercial usage, the Pro version is a lot better. That is $495.

      There are two limitations to this operation: The objects in the image need to be normal to the camera angle-the camera needs to be perpendicular to the object so that the object's one side is the same width as the opposite side- If it projects into the background or the foreground, then there will be significant errors; the better the resolution of the camera the higher the precision of the measurements.

      This is a lot cheaper and does MUCH MORE!

    8. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by luckymutt · · Score: 1

      Bullshit? Bullshit. We have something called {i]standard sizes[/i] in the building industry. Doors, windows, garage-doors, roof-pitches, fencing, siding, trim, steps... all of them are standard sizes. So I stand by that...any half-decent contractor can stand from the same spot the picture was taken and come up with the correct dimensions.

    9. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by syphax · · Score: 1


      In the building of new homes, perhaps everything is standardized these days. In the existing stock of homes, no frickin' way. I can say that as the proud owner of a few custom-sized doors and storm doors, which unfortunately do not come cheap. One was about half an inch off a stock size, but of course that's not close enough.

      --
      Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
    10. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit? Bullshit. We have something called {i]standard sizes[/i] in the building industry. Doors, windows, garage-doors, roof-pitches, fencing, siding, trim, steps... all of them are standard sizes. So I stand by that...any half-decent contractor can stand from the same spot the picture was taken and come up with the correct dimensions.
      You're just not going to stop talking out of your ass, are you? Just listen to the rubbish you are spewing. The size of the exterior walls on a home are not standardized. Please just shut the hell up, since you are way out of your area of expertise.
    11. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, using a known length/height of one object to calculate the length/height of an unknown has been done well before this do-hicky and to very accurate results, perhaps even more than 99.5%.

      Calculator and ruler. $10 at wally world.

    12. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by Pikoro · · Score: 1

      My contractor could beat up your contractor.

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    13. Re:Damn cheap in my book. by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      But since it is not 100% accurate, then its trash.

      Well, I suppose you could measure the house to 100% accuracy... but then you'd have the problem that it would be moving at a totally unknown speed in a totally unknown direction, and you'd never find it again.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  10. A more effective solution by popo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Would be to project a laser 'shape' from the camera to compute distance, and keep the entire measurement operation localized within the camera.

    Just a thought.

    --
    ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
    1. Re:A more effective solution by fbjon · · Score: 1

      Cameras like that already exist.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    2. Re:A more effective solution by Dersaidin · · Score: 1

      That would require a special camera. This software can be used with pictures from any camera. Just put the square in there somewhere (not hard to make if it doesn't come with one).

    3. Re:A more effective solution by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      This is what is done with the laser illuminators commonly seen in video from submarines and ROVs. The beams are parallel and a known distance apart so the size of objects they project onto can be estimated with ease.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    4. Re:A more effective solution by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      Parallel laser pointers spaced apart with a mount and screw to attach to camera. Also not hard to make.

  11. thats very cool, and I have just the image to try by dominux · · Score: 1, Funny

    just need to snap it again with the reference object in it. http://btc.montana.edu/ceres/html/Universe/images/ cobe.gif

  12. 99.5% accurate, on a construction site? by jrsjrsjrs · · Score: 1

    Cute gimmick. For framing, if it doesn't need to be all that accurate, +/- 2", why take the time? For finishwork, if it has to be within 1/8", better to take dimensions directly to account for things being out of plumb or not quite square.

    1. Re:99.5% accurate, on a construction site? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but for something like computational analysis, this would allow a more direct input of an object's dimensions that would be closer to accurate. I'm envisioning this for CFD applications. My company already uses a similar program that is designed to take a scanned in graph and locate the points on it. You have to specify an x-axis and y-axis origin and reference measurement to start with, but it will then calculate the location of any point in it based on those dimensions. If this could take a photo and estimate depth to give a 3-D location/dimensions, that would be great.

  13. Cost prohibitive?!? by physicsboy500 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Honestly, I could see almost every contractor getting into this...

    I think people need to realize that this will be it's major market as surveying costs run in the $20~30/hour range for a single trained surveyor... this is skilled work. If companies can instead send out untrained (or barely trained) individuals at $10-$15/hr with much less time spent in calculation and only a $100 sunk cost into the software there is no reason they wouldn't choose this method. Very good news for contractors, bad for surveyors.

    The price is almost low enough for consumers with a need to calculate distances relatively regularly to purchase this software.

    --
    The original generic sig.
    1. Re:Cost prohibitive?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think people need to realize that this will be it's major market as surveying costs run in the $20~30/hour range for a single trained surveyor... this is skilled work.
      I think people need to realize that a gimmick isn't going to replace skilled professionals. This method is probably nice for general approximations, but if you think that this would be useful for anything that needs accuracy or accountability (i.e. the jobs surveyors are used for), I've got a bridge to sell you.
    2. Re:Cost prohibitive?!? by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. I think this will be HOT item in Canada... when they come to map the US homes, they will be fully equipped...

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  14. I doubt it by oliverthered · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If I take a picture of an arch with something in the background of the arch there's no way it's going to be able to measure both the foreground and background distances without any knowledge of the distance the objects are away from the camera etc...
    You'd have to stick known distance marks on everything in your picture.

    --
    thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    1. Re:I doubt it by jordan314 · · Score: 1

      I agree. At first I thought this would be an interesting way to render 3d objects with photos mapped onto them, but this software only produces useful 'facts' about a photo, not an extensive set of data on everything in the photo. Sure it may be able to tell how tall a house is in the distance, but put a car visible in front or behind it and it has no idea how tall the car is without another point of reference.

  15. Impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can not measure arbitrary dimensions in a single photograph using a single calibration target. If you stick the target onto a surface you can measure dimensions on that surface, i.e. parallel to the target, but you would have no information about locations not on the plane of the target. If you are not convinced just think of it this way - any point in an image can be at an arbitrary depth.

    This means two things, either you provide the software with more information or you need a calibration target for each plane of measurements in the image. For the latter case I could write the software in an afternoon (Excluding testing, writing a manual etc.), and already have my own research tool that does precisely that, so $99 is extremely steep. For the first case such a piece of software would not be 'easy to use' nor quick, though probably worth the $99 and your money back for mis-selling.

    Sounds to me like that company's marketing team is overselling there product, and /. fell for it, hook, line and sinker.

    1. Re:Impossible by Bob+Loblaw · · Score: 1

      You are correct ... with one picture you don't have any depth information on any point other than where the known target is. It is not impossible if they take more than one picture from different perspectives though.

      However, nothing on the website indicates how many pictures you need to take for their software to work. I suspect it is not just as simple as taking one picture and being done with it. Digital photogrammetry generally takes a fair amount of post-processing.

    2. Re:Impossible by chrism238 · · Score: 1
      For the latter case I could write the software in an afternoon (Excluding testing, writing a manual etc.), and already have my own research tool that does precisely that, so $99 is extremely steep.

      You clearly don't value your own time very highly.

    3. Re:Impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Excluding testing, writing a manual etc.), and already have my own research tool that does precisely that, so $99 is extremely steep. Er... Are you paid minimum wage? I'm paid ~45$/h as a software developer. 99$ for a software like that, that's tested and comes with a manual is a good deal...

      Yes, I could spend a few week-ends on replicating that software by myself to the same level of quality of a finished product if I really really wanted to but... Meh... 99$... That's reasonable.
  16. tax on people who can't do math by fermion · · Score: 3, Informative
    When asked why math helps, this is the the sort of situation I point to. What this software does is nothing more than apply similarity. Researchers have been doing this for years by placing a rule in every photo so that, no matter how the photo is resized, the dimensions are always knows. Measure the line, measure the feature, divide the two, and multiply by the length of the line. In any case, more sophisticated software is available for free, like tracker at sourceforge.

    But what really gets me is the claim in the advert, claims that hyperbolic if not outright lies. I can easily construct a photo in which a house appears to be the same dimensions of the squares. One more effective way to do what the software is proposing is to know the dimensions of a feature that is part of the object you wish to measure, and use similarity to approximate the dimensions of the smaller or larger object.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:tax on people who can't do math by fbjon · · Score: 1

      I can easily construct a photo in which a house appears to be the same dimensions of the squares.
      No you can't. There's a sticker that you slap on a surface, which gives an absolute measure of size. On a small, but identical model house, the sticker would be huge.
      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    2. Re:tax on people who can't do math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you provide a URL for the tracker project on sourceforge?

    3. Re:tax on people who can't do math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    4. Re:tax on people who can't do math by mrbcs · · Score: 1

      Do you have a link or a more complete name other than "tracker"? Tracker returns 433 items at sourceforge.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    5. Re:tax on people who can't do math by jordan314 · · Score: 1
    6. Re:tax on people who can't do math by fermion · · Score: 1
      I apologize for the mix up. The tracker project is not on sourceforge. The software is at Tracker open source phyiscs . It is more sophisticated in that is it not limited to static situation, but can track motion. I don't think it does the transformations automatically.

      What I was thinking of was the Physmo project on sourceforge. It has some nice features, but the last version I used had more stability issues than tracker.

      Both are in java.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    7. Re:tax on people who can't do math by mrbcs · · Score: 1

      Thanks. Would love to see one of these programs work. I need to measure tower heights from a photo and have parked my car beside them before to judge scale. Would be nice to find something easier.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
  17. Two dimensions only ??? by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 1, Informative

    Are you fucking kidding me, that is childs play.

    First of all, If I can put a sticker on it, why not just measure it ? Second of all, for this to be at all usefull it would need to be able to measure in the micro (100ths of a millimiter) or macro (100s of meters) domain, and also be able to compute the size of any object in the distance based upon the size of an object in the foreground. I thought I was going to read how some clever mofo had figured out paralaxing or something, but no. Basically this is $99.00 for a pixel counter !

    Stupid.

    1. Re:Two dimensions only ??? by dfn5 · · Score: 1

      Basically this is $99.00 for a pixel counter !
      Indeed. I would be more impressed if it took images from multiple angles and spit out a wireframe mesh. Now that would be useful.

      --
      -- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
    2. Re:Two dimensions only ??? by Cctoide · · Score: 1

      Just ask CSI if you can borrow theirs.

      --
      "Let's face it, it's a good story. Accuracy would kill it."
    3. Re:Two dimensions only ??? by smackt4rd · · Score: 1

      This has to be the stupidest thing I've ever seen. You can do the same thing with MS paint. Then again, look at their target audience. I'm guessing there will be plenty of idiots buying this, lol.

    4. Re:Two dimensions only ??? by Psychotic_Wrath · · Score: 0

      for this to be at all usefull it would need to be able to measure in the micro (100ths of a millimiter) or macro (100s of meters)

      you must be measuring your dick =D

      --

      Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
  18. I think many are missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    From now on any girl I meet online will be required to send me a picture with one of the squares in frame. No more "just a few extra pounds" for me.

    1. Re:I think many are missing the point by antoinjapan · · Score: 2, Funny

      She better hope she didn't photocopy the sticker up 200% first.

    2. Re:I think many are missing the point by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      most digital photos do have all the needed info their, the f-stop, the camera make/model/... so if you have the lense dimensions, and she is in focus, it should be possible to calculate all dimensions sans square.

      Now, calculating how stretched the elastic is holding everything back is going to be much more difficult.

    3. Re:I think many are missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you've got something there... If a 7.5 inch square completely obscures her breast, well then, I'm not interested!

  19. Huray for slashvertisements! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hurray for proportions and high school trig!

  20. Can't work as advertised by JohnPM · · Score: 1

    Hang on, how can this thing possibly work?
    By putting the reference printout in the image you can determine the distance and orientation of the reference, but how does that tell you about the distance to other points in the image?
    It can only work for points in the same plane as the reference printout, such as the features on a flat wall.
    It cannot tell you anything about the dimensions of a complex object like a car.

    There are systems I've seen that can do similar jobs using video or multiple images to triangulate the 3D structure, but the FAQs on the iPhotoMEASURE website repeatedly refer to taking a single photo.

    For $99? I'll stick to a tape measure.

    --
    Karma police, I've given all I can, it's not enough, I've given all I can, but we're still on the payroll.
    1. Re:Can't work as advertised by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      Not that I disagree entirely with your post (and I didn't RTFA), but what's stopping the software from using multiple target squares for different depths from the camera? The 'trickery' then would be to look for division lines. Then again, there isn't any accounting for stuff at an angle either. *shrug*. Useful for really quick rough estimates, I guess.

    2. Re:Can't work as advertised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now to make this post on /. worth anything, please give us some names or links.

    3. Re:Can't work as advertised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More to the point, it COMPLETELY ignores the geometric distortions present in nearly every photographic lens.

      Frankly, this is bollocks.

    4. Re:Can't work as advertised by JohnPM · · Score: 1

      Ironic, coming from an anonymous coward!

      http://www.visionbib.com/bibliography/motion-i789. html

      --
      Karma police, I've given all I can, it's not enough, I've given all I can, but we're still on the payroll.
  21. $99 seems too cheap by spiritraveller · · Score: 1

    Seems like a piece of software that would only be useful in a few applications, but VERY useful in those applications.

    It's not going to be useful to someone who needs precise measurements, like a contractor. Those people will use a measuring tape, which is more than 99.5% accurate when used properly.

    But for estimators and appraisers this sounds like a killer app. Usually one would charge a lot more than $99 for such a niche application. Because of its niche status, there will not be as much competition from other software vendors. And for the intended customer, it is likely to become a must-have item.

    Of course, the more they charge, the more likely it is that competitors will materialize.

  22. Worst name ever... by andyukguy · · Score: 0

    "iPhotoMEASURE" ? Sheesh... They might as well have gone all out: iPhotoMeasure X 2.0 BETA I hope the folks at KDE don't do the obvious when they make their open source equivalent.

  23. Waste of money! by robkeeney · · Score: 5, Informative

    All it does is count pixels. Take the picture with the known size block in it, then count how many pixels the block takes up: that's your dots per inch -- for objects the same distance away as the known size image. I read somewhere that the Japanese (I think) used to do this at musical instrument trade shows, by wearing a 1 cm square tie tack and taking photos of each other holding instruments. They could get the dimensions of the instrument from the photos that way, and make great cheap knock-offs.

    1. Re:Waste of money! by noidentity · · Score: 1

      It could also "count" sub-pixels, giving much higher resolution. Of course it would be assuming that the object doesn't have a gray edge or whatever. That 99.5% accuracy sounds suspect, assuming it means that the measurement is always within 0.5% of the actual. What about when it's way wrong?

    2. Re:Waste of money! by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      I read somewhere that the Japanese (I think) used to do this at musical instrument trade shows, by wearing a 1 cm square tie tack and taking photos of each other holding instruments. They could get the dimensions of the instrument from the photos that way, and make great cheap knock-offs.

      I would have to consider at least some parts of this story to be apocryphal -- there's a lot more factors involved in making a good knock-off of a musical instrument than building at an exactly 1:1 scale.

      And honestly, if they wanted to copy an instrument design, a much easier way would be to buy one of the instruments at retail, and then meticulously reverse-engineer it to the micron back in the lab.

    3. Re:Waste of money! by robkeeney · · Score: 1
      Sorry, I didn't mean to say that they sounded good. I meant that they looked good. I found where I read it: http://www.banjowizard.com/tonebell.htm

      In the 1970's the Japanese musical instrument manufacturers had taken to attending musical instrument manufacturing conventions. They would wear a tie tack which measured 1 cm. on a side. They would pose either holding or standing next to an instrument they desired to copy and have their pictures taken. The photos would be blown up to full size using the tie tack as a reference point. Later, these instruments would appear on the market as excellent external copies. However, the internal structures often left much to be desired.
      And if you don't care about making a good copy, if all you want is to make cheap knock-offs that look good, why buy when you can take a picture?
  24. Uh oh by Ace905 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I hope sites like adultfriendfinder and lavalife don't incorporate this software into their user-options.

    wait a minute ...

    yes I do, I do hope sites like that make this feature available to their users. .... <runs away>

    ---
    adult friend finder?

    --

    Ace
  25. Never under-price. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They should make a $1299 "Professional" version, quick. It'll be the exact same product as the $99 version, just in a different color, and with a printed, spiral-bound manual.

    It's definitely possible to under-price your product if you're not careful. Actually, having a $1299 version might even help drive sales of the $99 version, because people would perceive the $99 version as a sort of 'deal,' as in "hey, for $99 I'm getting 60% of the features of the $1300 version! That's great! I'll take three."

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Never under-price. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "hey, for $99 I'm getting 60% of the features of the $1300 version! That's great! I'll take three."
      That's 180% of the features! But since people only use 10% of the features, it's still only 18% of the features! Though since 66% of all statistics are made up, that's probably closer to 12% of the features.
    2. Re:Never under-price. by kfg · · Score: 1

      Bear in mind, however, that you can overprice something compared to the effort needed to live without the software.

      Contractors can already perform this function with a ruler and a calculator.

      KFG

  26. Guess there's a lot of "trash." by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But since it is not 100% accurate, then its trash.

    You do know that's impossible, right? I could use a laser interferometer, and determine the distance between two objects down to a fraction of a nanometer, and it would still not be "100% accurate."

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by luckymutt · · Score: 1

      Yes, I know that's impossible.. Since we are referring to contractors, it was meant to be presummed that I was speaking relatively. I can't think of many situations where the crown moulding needs to be trimmed as accurate as a nanometer. Let me re-phrase: Since it is not 100% accurate [i]compared with what their current accuracy standards are.[/i] Regardless, this thing is a piece of crap. They don't [i]know[/i] their market...they only think they do. If they acctually asked a professional in any field they thought this would be useful, they'd have been laughed at.

    2. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by Headcase88 · · Score: 1

      100% accurate is easy. Technically the software is 100% accurate if you round up.

      100.00% accurate is harder and sometimes necessary. This software isn't even 100.0% accurate.

      --
      "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
    3. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well, I always round to the nearest 1000% percent.

    4. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by Oligonicella · · Score: 2, Informative

      Really? Talk to this guy.

    5. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by djh101010 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let me re-phrase:Since it is not 100% accurate [i]compared with what their current accuracy standards are.[/i]Regardless, this thing is a piece of crap.They don't [i]know[/i] their market...they only think they do.If they acctually asked a professional in any field they thought this would be useful, they'd have been laughed at.

      Really. So you understand the difference between an estimate and the craftsman doing the actual work then, right? The estimator's job is to be close enough that they come out just about right. Overages, OR underages, are bad. Yet, it's an _estimate_. This is a tool to get reasonable accuracy (so it's claimed) for doing estimates. No finish carpenter worth employing would use these measurements as a cutlist, that's not what it's for. This is so they can say "OK, homeowner, that's 527 square feet of siding, 240 feet of soffit and facia, 220 feet of gutter, and 12 square of shingles, so your cost estimate for materials is blah". Obviously nobody is going to go and cut the siding to 17' 4-11/16" based on something like this.
    6. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by tkw954 · · Score: 3, Funny

      My favourite quote from engineering school: "Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe"

    7. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I don't know, I think it might be usefull to double check the saleman's figures for the job. I have quite a few friends who do things ranging from installing siding to carpet. They bitch all the time about being sent to a job site without enough material or having to wait for something to be delivered because the salesman wrote something down wrong or made a mistake, or worse yet, the person who made out the bid with current pricing read it wrong.

      This could make something like this a thing of the past. If whoever does the measuring takes pictures of the site, passes them to the person making the bid/estimate out and they verify the measurments to be somewhat close before sedning the purposal, I think it would not only save time but embarrasment when something happenes as well as avoid a pissed off customer who thought it should have been cheaper.

      Another use could be when browsing for flooring, siding, or any thing else that is sold by the foot. Maybe even mulch for your flower beds or gravel for your driveway. They bring in a picture, a rough estimate is made and if they are interested someone come and measures exactly. I can see lots of uses were the initial measurments don't need to be exact.

    8. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by InFire · · Score: 1

      Not to be nitpicky (well maybe but this is Slashdot after all) but I think you guys are discussing "precision" not "accuracy"...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precisio n

    9. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 1

      My favourite quote from engineering school: "Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe"

      And if you designed it (measured and calculated!) right from the start, it'll survive the tolerances inherent to both mass production and real-world usage. I love that saying, because I get so tired of dealing with people who come up with designs which are beautiful but impossible to actually build.

      --
      Fire and Meat. Yummy.
    10. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 1

      Overages, OR underages, are bad. Yet, it's an _estimate_. This is a tool to get reasonable accuracy (so it's claimed) for doing estimates.

      Heh... I'm sure the parent's estimates are acCtually about as good as his accuracy.

      You just replied to a guy who probably thinks that screwing a new case fan into the existing holes constitutes building something. Or that assembling Ikea furniture makes him handy. To dismiss such a product, he's clearly never actually built anything, whether it be a renovated bathroom, a waterblock for a CPU cooler, or a stretched frame for his Jeep Cherokee Limousine.

      99.5% accurate? Okay, I'll round up a whole percent. Worst overages would therefore be buying 101.5 feet of fascia when I needed but 100, and it saved me the labor (and risk) of climbing the ladder and measuring the width of my eaves to make sure it was right. Dude clearly has no idea why there are always large dumpsters at construction sites, and how this would if anything only serve to reduce the waste.

      --
      Fire and Meat. Yummy.
    11. Re:Guess there's a lot of "trash." by djh101010 · · Score: 1

      You just replied to a guy who probably thinks that screwing a new case fan into the existing holes constitutes building something. Or that assembling Ikea furniture makes him handy. To dismiss such a product, he's clearly never actually built anything, whether it be a renovated bathroom, a waterblock for a CPU cooler, or a stretched frame for his Jeep Cherokee Limousine.


      Yup, I know folks like that. I work in IT, but, I built my house. Every board, every nail, foundation, footings, plumbing, electrical, the whole deal. Hired out the well, septic, excavation (didn't have a backhoe at the time), and concrete flatwork. Everything else, I've done, kitchen cabinets I made from lumber I milled from cherry trees I cut down. Took a long time. BUT, it has given me an immense respect for tradespeople and the sheer amount of effort involved in doing it, and then the huge incremental effort to then do it _right_.

      99.5% accurate? Okay, I'll round up a whole percent. Worst overages would therefore be buying 101.5 feet of fascia when I needed but 100, and it saved me the labor (and risk) of climbing the ladder and measuring the width of my eaves to make sure it was right. Dude clearly has no idea why there are always large dumpsters at construction sites, and how this would if anything only serve to reduce the waste.


      Right. In my case, I could spend extra time pre-calculating my cutlist and materials lists, so I was able to fit the scrap from framing out the house into the back of a pickup. Takes more time but the time was effectively "free". This product isn't for me, this product is for the jobber who has 20 things up in the air and needs to know what they're dealing with at a given location. I don't see it doing 3D, but a 3D target of some sort might be an interesting extension of this idea. Actually with two of them, one on either side of the frame, ...let's just say this is a solve-able problem. And a great tool for what it does. Software and perception being what it is, though, the vendor might have better luck at $99 per copy rather than $19 or $29 or whatever it is. Strange but true.
  27. It is a nice application... by stormeru · · Score: 0

    ...but does it also measure in the Metric system? I only see Imperial units in the article.

    1. Re:It is a nice application... by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      It probably doesn't take measurements accurately enough to use millimetres.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  28. 99.5% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering the shoddy construction I've seen in many modern homes (mostly in the one I shouldn't have purchased), 99.5% measurement accuracy for a contractor would be an improvement to today's state of the art. Maybe they could come up with a hangover or coke filter for the software to even out the playing field of man vs machine.

    Seriously though. Nut up and buy a friggin' tape measure.

  29. I did something similar once... by TerranFury · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was taking a mechanical design class, and I wanted to know the coordinates of a bunch of screwholes in a mounting plate. I looked at it for a second, grinned, and darted to the nearest computer with a scanner -- as my teammates shook their heads (and micrometers) at me, saying "damnit, you're being impractical; it'll never work." (They thought I was too interested in theory and not enough in turning the cranks on lathes and mills; though we generally got along, we did have -- philosophical differences.) Scanning took a few seconds, after which I took a minute to note the pixel coordinates of the hole centers in a spreadsheet. Then I measured one edge of the part with the micrometer to get a pixel-to-inch scale, popped that number into the spreadsheet, and out came the x,y coordinates of all the holes in the part. When we CNCed the new plate with those hole locations, they all lined up with the part-to-be-mounted perfectly -- at which point they were pretty much forced to admit that maybe the kid knew what the hell he was doing!

    I've thought since then that some software designed for the task (with edge-recognition algorithms, measurement features, etc) could turn consumer-grade scanners into decent reverse-engineering tools (for planar parts).

  30. I think that's the marketing dept. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That link doesn't work (at least, not for me). I think it looks at the referer and won't let you deeplink to the image. You have to go through the blog to see it:
    http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2007/02/how _to_measure_.html

    Looking at that photo, I'm not buying that it can measure all those distances from a single photo. I think there is some advertising hyperbole going on here. I get that you could measure all those distances and dimensions, using multiple photos -- one each of every flat surface, moving the target each time so it's the same distance from the camera as the surface being measured -- but I don't think it would work from a single photo.

    The only way you could measure everything from a single photo like that, would be if the camera was stereoscopic, or had some other form of depth perception. Otherwise, as you noticed, there's no way for it to know that the window that's closer to the camera is not really bigger than the garage door that's further away.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by hobbes75 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I agree. There is no way the software can figure out the measurements, unless their "DigiTarget" sheet is in the same plane as all the points between which distances need to be measured. It could in (science fiction like) theory use assumptions of orthogonal planes (walls to floor) to help but this is not a solved problem in AI and even then would not work in general.
      So the "hard" part in this software remains to automatically (hopefully it is automatic) find the DigiTarget and calculate a "more or less affine" transformation matrix and then calculate the distance with regard of the found matrix (this does not resolve distorions and assumes a pinhole camera, but there is not much else doable with only one picture and a small known target).
      The situation would change if they took at least two pictures of the scene from two slightly different positions, with at least one including the "DigiTarget". Then all the information would be available to really do the measurement as long as the user defines the distance that is to be measured in at least two of the pictures (and there are 5 additional points that can be matched between the two pictures, which is typically automatically feasible)

    2. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by ArtuRocks · · Score: 2, Informative

      A comment posted to that blog addresses that:

      Yes - it must take foreshortening into account. Briefly what it does is calibrate the camera's parameters (field-of-view for one) from the reference DigiTarget image which has known dimensions, and generates a perspective transformation from that. This should be a simple exercise in computer vision. Notice how it only measures horizontal and vertical lengths. This is because these have particularly special invariance properties under a perspective transformation. This leads me to deduce that the DigiTarget must always be shot head-on for this thing to work at all.

    3. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by radtea · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    4. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by muellerr1 · · Score: 1

      I believe you could measure distance without stereoscopy. I'm no mathematician (or even in the sciences--I'm humanities person myself), but the way I'd approach the problem is to check the slight curvature of the reference square's sides (put another way, check the angles on the reference square's corners) to infer the focal length and distance of reference square from the lens, and once you have that you'd be able to measure the amount of focus (or lack of focus) in otherwise hard edges to determine distance from the reference square. You'd need a pretty high-resolution photo but I bet it's possible within certain set limits.

      But I'm just guessing.

    5. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by muellerr1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here I am, replying to my own post after rtfa. Did anyone else click on the 'take a tour' link of the software and notice under the list of people who would find this software useful: Contractors, Interior designers, Law enforcement, Do-it-yourselfers and Single Moms. WTF? Why would single moms need to know distances in photographs any more than married moms?

    6. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by Mike1024 · · Score: 1

      I get that you could measure all those distances and dimensions, using multiple photos -- one each of every flat surface, moving the target each time so it's the same distance from the camera as the surface being measured -- but I don't think it would work from a single photo.

      There is something known as 'depth from defocus'. If you know the focal distance and depth of field, you can detect range by how out of focus things become. It sounds inaccurate, but some people report 1/200 accuracy. However, I gather you need at least two pictures at different distances to produce useful results.

      It's just a believable, though, that it relies on parallel features (such as bricks or wall top+bottom) or only works on near-flat surfaces.

      --
      "Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
    7. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      Very interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way, but if you allow a requirement that the user has to take multiple photos of the same scene, from slightly different positions (particularly if you require that the target to be visible and in the same position in each of them) then you can start to do some neat stuff. Essentially you could use the target (or other object visible in both photos, as you noted) to find the position of the camera and thus know how far apart the two (or more) images were taken from. Then you could start to construct a stereoscopic model.

      I have a feeling that this product is not that complicated, just a hunch, but it would be neat if someone took the concept and ran with it. I could see a lot of applications for some software that let you put a target down near an object, and then take a few photographs of it, and would give you an accurate (or even approximate) 3D model of the surface of the visible portion.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    8. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You could do that with the example of a rug, or any flat surface that's not perpendicular to your line of sight, by measuring the distortion of the reference square. BUT, you can't take into account things that do not lie on the same plane as that reference.

      If you have a flat wall with that target on it you can correct for perspective on the bottom and top of that wall, but you can't figure out the dimensions of another wall that's closer or farther from the camera.

    9. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You also need certain circumstances like a small depth of field to give you enough defocus effect to measure. Small digicams, especially camera phones have tiny little sensors and use fairly small apertures so they produce images with very little focus variation with distance.

    10. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      Why would single moms need to know distances in photographs any more than married moms?
       
      For evaluating "Escort service" photos in preparation for that big night on the town, of course. *tee hee*

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    11. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      WTF? Why would single moms need to know distances in photographs any more than married moms?

      You put the square on your street, then you take a picture when your ex is violating their restraining order.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      Why would single moms need to know distances in photographs any more than married moms?

      Married moms tell their husband to do the feat.

      I can't believe I replied to this, or that this was moderated up. These marketing lists of people that might find a product useful are rarely surveyed, quantified, or measured, but rather just a product of a brainstorming session.

      I guess this software won't make a great gift because the marketing people didn't tell me it would?!?!

    13. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by bdonalds · · Score: 1

      Why would single moms need to know distances in photographs any more than married moms?

      Perhaps to secretly determine the penile dimensions of possible suitors?

      --
      The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with somebody else's life. -FZ
    14. Re:I think that's the marketing dept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you simply need to have the square target on the same plane as the measurements. As long as the resolution of the image is high enough and lens distortions are low enough, this makes it very easy to create a perspective grid based on the target and then do measurements on that grid.

      The equations are the same you'd use in perspective-correct texture mapping. There's nothing impossible or even hard about this. The example picture shows measurements along two different planes which would simply require the use of two targets.

      Software has been written before to do more or less the same thing for 3D visualization purposes... You take photos of real buildings, then use a perspective transformation to "straighten up" the images so you can use them as textures on 3D models (e.g. in some racing games). Taking measurements for construction is just a new application of well known technology.

  31. No need for depth perception by thousandinone · · Score: 1
  32. This reminds of me of out-sourcing to India. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I think people need to realize that this will be it's major market as surveying costs run in the $20~30/hour range for a single trained surveyor... this is skilled work. If companies can instead send out untrained (or barely trained) individuals at $10-$15/hr with much less time spent in calculation and only a $100 sunk cost into the software there is no reason they wouldn't choose this method. Very good news for contractors, bad for surveyors.

    No, this may be good news for truly talented surveyors. It seems a lot like the situation involving software developers and outsourcing to India. At first the situation will look bleak: some other people are offering the same services as the professionals, for only a fraction of the price. Soon enough, some managers will choose to go the cheaper route.

    When it came to software, the industry eventually found out that Indian developers just plain couldn't put together a usable product. Often times, what they did produce was virutally useless. I've heard of situations where those off-shore developers took code from a number of open source projects with incompatible licenses, merged it all together in a basically non-functional monstrosity, and then expected to get paid for putting out that piece of pure shit.

    Of course, this was a great thing for us North American and European developers. It made those of us with even just decent software development skills look great, when compared to the Indian developers. We could end up asking more, since the smarter managers learned our true value.

    The same thing could happen for surveyors. After hiring a few untrained people to perform surveying using this device, it's no doubt that there would be major and costly problems. Building foundations would be unaligned, for instance, and professional surveyors would need to be called in to get things measured correctly. Now they'll be in a better position to demand more pay for the same service they were providing before, as the smart managers will realize that their other option will make major mistakes, and be even more costly than just paying a professional to do it correctly.

  33. for police work? by mrzaph0d · · Score: 1

    I just heard something on the radio the other day that sounds the same and now i can't find any mention of it, but basically it said that cops have something very close to this type of software now and are using it to clear accident scenes quicker. instead of having to measure by hand every aspect of the accident, they take a decent amount of pictures and use the software to calculate distances.

    --
    this is just a placeholder till i send back my real sig from the future.
    1. Re:for police work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is used for just that:
      http://www.photomodeler.com/

    2. Re:for police work? by virginiajim · · Score: 1

      Photogrammetry covers this type thing and it is used in police work periodically, but requires a tripod for the camera and a plumb bob to mark the spot on the ground below the camera, the camera height, and inclusion of a known-sized placard or piece of paper a foot or two square in each photo. Practically speaking it's too complex for police work and certainly open to challenge in court along the lines of many comments made here by slashdot-ers. Google photogrammetry for lots more details.

  34. Reminds me of the joke about ... by danceswithtrees · · Score: 1
    Reminds me about the joke about how to measure the height of a building using a barometer. http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/barometer.asp

    Or if the sun is shining you could measure the height of the barometer, then set it on end and measure the length of its shadow. Then you measure the length of the skyscraper's shadow, and thereafter it is a simple matter of proportional arithmetic to work out the height of the skyscraper.
  35. My God by ReidMaynard · · Score: 1
    --
    -- www.globaltics.net

    Political discussion for a new world

  36. Doesn't sound like it's too complicated. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It doesn't seem like it would be really too hard, if the software is just doing what I think it is.

    The hardest part is just picking out the target from the photo. In most interior scenes, the target they're using would probably work pretty well (it's a white square with heavy black edges) although it seems like there are some backgrounds where locating it might be a problem. But there are, if I'm not mistaken, some OSS efforts to do things like automatic facial recognition, and that's a much more complex problem than picking a black-on-white box out. (Particularly if the center of the box is reflectorized, so that it's always 255/255/255 when a flash photo is taken.)

    Once you've located the target, knowing it's actual size and how many pixels wide it is in the image, then you can let the user pick any two points elsewhere on the image (which must be in the same plane as the target, and basically perpendicular to the camera's film/sensor) and tell them how far the points are apart in reality. It's just multiplication at that point.

    If you look at OSS image-processing software, there are applications around that do much more complex stuff than this: Hugin, and Panorama Tools (the latter are what really do the heavy lifting) come immediately to mind. Compared to joining and sewing a panorama, this kind of measurement seems pretty easy, unless I'm missing something critical.

    If I was recommending features for a measurement product, I think the key would be not to limit it to a particular target. Sure, a few printable targets, similar to the one used in TFA's commercical product, would be good for measurement of rooms and houses, but it would also be nice to use smaller things that are typically used for scale in macro photographs. E.g., dollar bills, quarters, width of a pencil, etc. Those would be tougher to automatically recognize, and would probably require some prompting by the user in order to pick out, but would probably appeal to a wider variety of users. Who hasn't seen an eBay photo and wondered what the exact dimensions of something were?

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  37. But.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does it run on linux?

  38. hmm. by alexultima · · Score: 1

    anybody ever seen the italian job?

  39. Cool if it works by beerdini · · Score: 1

    This sounds pretty cool if it works as it is being described. Great asset for surveyors, construction, law enforcement and the neighborhood UFO photographer

  40. photogrammetry by StoatBringer · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just find a company which provides photogrammetry software. I worked for one once (Alias ltd. in the UK). They take a stereoscopic pair of photos of a site (with markup stickers here and there) and the software builds a 3D CAD model of all the pipes, vents, supports, walls etc.

    --
    Cress, cress, lovely lovely cress
    1. Re:photogrammetry by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      Didn't Alias (the Isogen guys, not the 3D animation guys) get bought out recently?

  41. Some optics nitpicking. by asadodetira · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are some subtleties in measuring things from an image. Lenses distort images in a non-linear way, so just counting the pixels wouldn't be extremely accurate. One of the ways this can be improved is by calibration, basically taking a picture of a bunch of dots in a square array that covers the whole field of view, and do some math. Hey iPhotomeasure people, if you need a consultant for version 2, "with improved calibration" give me a call!!

  42. Already there for video tapes by elbrecht · · Score: 1

    There is this German company making the product "DartFish", that does that in Videos. Great for analyzing sports, like the distance and direction of steps before jumps.

    Price tag is (afaik) well below 500. I only saw demos with sports people and I must say I was REALLY impressed (keep in mind the geek factor of sports men when it comes to IT).

    Ah and it was like 2 or so years ago. I refrained from buying it, because I saw no use in bicycling and it was protected.

    Don't ask me how this works, but I really thought it was impossible to do. You could even mark stuff in scenes and you could do it real time - like pulling the high jumper from the mattress in front of your laptop.

  43. Maybe they figured it out. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    A lot of these comments are saying, "it's just a pixel counter", or, "it can't work", or "you would need to do xyz and it is not worth $99".

    Of all those comments, how many people actually tried it to see what it can do? Maybe the people who designed it figured a lot of this out and have some way of doing the calculations to make it work properly.

    Just because 'YOU' can't see how to do it, does not mean the designers could not figure it out.

    Because I can't figure out how to determine trajectory through the earth's gravitational pull, to the vacuum of outer space, calculating where mars will be several months (maybe years) in advance, then mars gravitational pull, to land a rover on the surface does not mean no one else has figured it out.
    Perhaps the people at NASA are just smarter than I when it comes to that, like it is possible the designers of the software might just be smarter than those who never seen the software work but claims it can't work.
    Just a thought.

    1. Re:Maybe they figured it out. by Chirs · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but it is simply theoretically impossible to solve in the general case with a standard camera.

      To get distances away from the camera you need depth information. This requires either multiple pictures at different focal lengths from one spot, or else multiple pictures from separate spots.

      If all you have to work with is a single standard image then it is possible to construct two entities with completely different dimensions that will look the same from the vantage point of the camera. (Look up "forced perspective" for more information.)

      For examples, see:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_cube
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ames_room

    2. Re:Maybe they figured it out. by Raynor · · Score: 1

      The differnce being that mars' gravitation pull, where mars will be in several years, the trajectory of the earth's gravitational pull and whatever else is needed to put a rover on mars is all based in scientific fact and advanced mathematics.

      This is, and I quote, "weapons-grade bolognium."

      With a simple square as a frame of reference you cannot measure depth... simple as that. Sure you can measure other objects at that distance from the camera.

      http://www.crime-scene.com/ecpi/media/6200M_l.jpg

      Amazing... they already have even more useful tools for this kind of thing. Notice however that the ruler must be ON the object to be measured. That requires only basic trigonometry...

      $99 bux for a trig program. What a bargain for those of us who construct houses in two dimensions!

      --
      "Dictator Flakes. They WILL be delicious."
    3. Re:Maybe they figured it out. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Or bounce a distance laser off an object.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  44. Could be great for accident investigations by markdj · · Score: 1

    I'm a Ski Patroller and we investigate accidents by taking pictures of the scene with little flags to mark distances. If the software works as well as described, this would allow us to just take pictures of the scene and not to have to carry flags and a tape measure. Investigations would be faster and easier.

  45. ARToolkit by diodegod · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It may be possible to get ARToolkit to do this. It's dual-licensed under the GPL so it's OSS. If you want to play with it just get a v4l video capture device and print out the squares.

    ARToolkit's been used by the University of South Australia to create ARQuake which is a lot of fun to use with the actual wearable computer :) Thanks Wayne Piekarski from UniSA for letting me play ARQuake on that thing at linux.conf.au in 2003.

    I'm not sure if they used ARToolkit or something more in-house to make Tinmith, that looks really sweet.

    --
    The beatings will continue until morale improves.
  46. Looks similar to ARToolKit by mrj198 · · Score: 1

    The marker looks very similar to those used in the Open Source ARToolKit - http://www.equator.ecs.soton.ac.uk/projects/artool kit/ - it uses known-size 2D barcodes to get the 3D transform of the camera relative to the position of the marker. Would probably be straightforward to extend the ARToolKit to be able to do this.

  47. The perspective version exists.... by mpitcavage · · Score: 1

    I swear I remember reading an article about kitchen design software that placed a stick of known length in the picture (at an angle to give it depth). I think they took a few pictures from different angles or something so the software could understand "depth".

    Why don't you get to work finding the reference for me, or if you can't just rewrite the software. Thanks.

  48. Re:How is this news for nerds? by ubuwalker31 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Because now they can measure there penis using a camera.

  49. Just a single photograph? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  50. free pixel counter from NIH by park27094 · · Score: 1

    The NIH has a free pixel counter you might try before shelling out $99 bucks. You'd just have to use a known size object, use the app to measure that object in pixels, then enter in the pixels/unit value. It's meant for biologists, but it has some nice features, like the ability to recognize objects ("particles") and 3d representation of pixel intensities. http://rsb.info.nih.gov/ij/docs/menus/analyze.html

  51. The problem there by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    The problem there stems from the fact that this seems to be little more than a pixel counter. I.e., to measure something you'd have had to stick the label on it and to have taken a nice full frontal picture of it.

    So the way I see it, if you remembered to do that, then you pretty much remembered to measure it in the first place. If you didn't, well, you're going to go back anyway.

    And if it shows up at the right angle in the picture of something else you did measure, then it doesn't do anything you couldn't have done with any graphics editing program. (E.g., Gimp as a free one.) You don't even need a CAD program. If it shows you the pixel coordinates of the mouse pointer, there you go: measure the known object in pixels(the difference between the coordinates at one end and the ones at the other end), measure the unknown object in pixels, do some elementary maths. You'll have the same accuracy this thing has.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  52. Matrox Imaging has been doing this for years... by spac · · Score: 1

    Matrox Imaging has been offering a software product known as the Matrox Imaging Library (MIL) for years which provides standard measurement functions and now even a metrology module that measures arcs, tolerances and more.

    Best of all, it supports Windows AND Linux!

  53. Re:Not nearly that simple. by Bastian · · Score: 1

    If what they're advertising is true, then it's more complicated than that. Pixel counting alone would only allow them to accurately calculate the length of line segments that are both the same distance from the camera and orthogonal to the camera's view axis. Even then, it would be hard to achieve 99.5% accuracy in many cases because the edges of the calibration block probably don't line up very well with pixel boundaries. So to provide a reasonable guarantee of accuracy on that plane alone requires the ability to extract sub-pixel information from the image with reasonable accuracy.

    To calculate lengths that are not close to lying on that plane is more complicated. The software needs to be able to very accurately account for perspective, which involves doing a pretty respectable amount of analysis. There's been a lot of research into that and I'd actually be very surprised if this were the first commercial software to do something like that, but it's still a non-trivial problem.

  54. Re:Consider ImageJ software by alfchong · · Score: 1

    There is open source software that does this. ImageJ is a free open source java software that does just this. It is well known among scientists and was developed by the NIH. Best of all, you get to choose your own calibration device. I've used it to measure biological specimens of sizes 1-3mm in size from a high resolution photograph taken with a Nikon D100 together with a 1/2 inch calibration block. I've been happy with the results. Besides measurements, it does a whole bunch of functions like counting particles and image processing

    Since it is java based, there are versions of Windows, OSX and Linux. Of course it does not address perspective problems, but that is not an issue for me as I can keep my calibration device in the same plane as the item I am measuring.

  55. The first porn-related lawsuit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I took a picture of my dick which I swear to be 8 inches, your honour, but the software said it was only 5 and a half!"

  56. Similar software for decoration purposes by Aliencow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I used to work for one of the biggest wallpaper producers, and they were going to buy a similar program where the user prints out a sheet with some kind of arrow on it, and put it on the wall. After that, the user would take a picture of his room, and load the jpg in the application. From there, the application would calculate the angle of the wall etc, and the user could load any texture (in our case, wallpaper) and it would apply it the the user's picture of his own room. It was pretty cool, but unfortunately not web-based, it had to be given to users on CD, because it was pretty huge...and the license didn't allow just distributing it on the website..

  57. I have this kind of software too.... by Lunchbox777 · · Score: 1

    Its called AutoCAD, photoshop, or just about anything that you can use a frame of reference for. If you gave me a picture of a building, and gave me the dimensions of one of those bricks, I'm pretty sure I could accurately estimate the dimensions of the rest of the building. Once you draw the line on cad you scale the drawing up or down to match the line you drew with known dimensions. Its really not that complicated of a process. I really need to start designing software for contractors because apparently they'll buy anything to shave a few seconds off. Next up, a program that counts bricks!

  58. Re:thats very cool, and I have just the image to t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You fool! The reference object IS in the picture! It's just a little difficult to make out a 15-inch square in a picture of the entire universe...

  59. Mine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have never been bothered by Slashdot or posted to it seriously, but this is just to establish "prior art" or something like that.

    My project http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/perumaal/cs384g.htm l given with photos with square areas, can measure distances, place 3d objects in real-time like granites and even tone the lighting color (which is the extension)....
    (The areas in the photos are blacked out for privacy reasons)

    However the math is trivial and the idea is good but it does way bit more than "stick the label in your surface to get the distances". It actually is a 3d modeling tool.

  60. good idea, but no patent by swschrad · · Score: 1

    the ubiquitous "grey card" from Kodak was long used in the chemical-photo world as a standard measurement of both distances and color density. you KNEW you had an 8x10 element in the photo.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  61. Fool me once, shame on you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if you could fool it; like if you gave it a shot from the Lord of the Rings, where both Frodo and Gandalf appear. I think you could probably even have two different boxes drawn out, one for if you're using Frodo, the other for Gandalf (since Sir Ian Mckellen and Elijah Wood are a meer 5 inches apart, but in the movie, it seems that there's feet between them)

  62. Needs stereo by mattr · · Score: 2, Informative

    Unless more more than one photo is used with computer vision algorithms to actually build a perspective (two or more eye view) this thing is only going to produce approximate measurements.. not good enough for anything worth using it for.

    99.5% is also no good unless you don't really want to measure things accurately.

    The example shown in the link shows a garage that is farther from you than the windows, and the windows are not directly in line of sight but actually off to the side a little.

    I think it would really only be useful if you have a very high resolution digital camera and stand quite far from the building. But for closeup work you might as well have a ruler.

    It would be useful for things you can't reach though, if you can get directly in line with it.

    1. Re:Needs stereo by roflwaffle · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Depth is lost with single image. For all it know if your dog is standing close to you and you have this paper in the background, it will cock it all up. Besides, even if not the case, many cameras have unspecified amounts of barrel distortion, etc, whcih the paper can probably estimate, but at the 4mp minimum they require, I am skeptical

  63. Needs stereo by mattr · · Score: 1

    Unless more more than one photo is used with computer vision algorithms to actually build a perspective (two or more eye view) this thing is only going to produce approximate measurements.. not good enough for anything worth using it for.

    99.5% is also no good unless you don't really want to measure things accurately.

    The example shown in the link shows a garage that is farther from you than the windows, and the windows are not directly in line of sight but actually off to the side a little.

    I think it would really only be useful if you have a very high resolution digital camera and stand quite far from the building. But for closeup work you might as well have a ruler.

    It would be useful for things you can't reach though, if you can get directly in line with it.

  64. clearly erroneous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Five inches? That can't be right...

  65. Not too accurate in practice, especially outdoors. by DogFacedJo · · Score: 1

    Perhaps due to the lens issues of modern (small lens) cameras.

    This review claims more modest accuracy of 93% and 95% for outdoor ranges. (40', 30'):

    http://www.remodeling.hw.net/industry-news.asp?sec tionID=154&articleID=403323

    Incidentally, it is totally possible to calculate a number of distances in an image of a rectilinear object (like a house or kitchen) by assuming that planes are at right (or other known) angles. One can then estimate on planes other than the reference plane. Any planes that are at a shallow angle to the viewer will generate crappy numbers, of course, and the more angles you are away from the reference, the more error will accumulate. Lens distortion is pretty frightening on a lot of cameras - I'd be curious if the software can measure it, or otherwise attempt to ameliorate that source of error.

        Whether this software is effective in practice would likely require trying it, and having actual (as opposed to hypothetical) accuracy requirements for your estimates.

  66. One use, tops by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    If it means a saved trip, that's $150 in billable time for a close job.

    I got a Stanley FatMax laser distance meter last year - $99 shipped. I got it for an 8000SF church admin building I had to map. A helper and I did the whole thing - two levels and about 40-50 rooms total, including a labyrinthine lower level, in about 6.5 hours. I'd say it would have been a 2 day job with a tape measure. The best part is that once we got back, the building closed within an 1". Freaking amazing - I'd say we would have been off more with a tape.

    Oddly enough, I just had to do something like this on a building I'm working on. It's old, so the brick coursing isn't quite 8". I doubt this does pincushion correction, which is a shame, as there was about 4" in my photo (printed with photoshop at 3/4" scale). Also, a little bit of perspective, though not bad for handheld. I suppose this might correct for pure perspective.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:One use, tops by reyalpdemannu · · Score: 1

      I have a FatMax disto as well, and a Leica. I love distos.
      I see what you're saying.
      If it was possible to integrate this software with Xactimate, Integriclaim, or Powerclaim, I'd be all over it. Unfortunately, if I'm just measuring a building floorplan, this doesn't stand to do me much good. I can measure, diagram, scope and photograph every room in a 2500sf dwelling in 30 minutes.

      That being said, I want frisbees with these squares on them. Then I can toss the frisbee on an inaccessible roof, snap a photo, and I'll have my measurements! Adjuster laziness to the extreme.

    2. Re:One use, tops by IpalindromeI · · Score: 1

      You've got to be perpendicular to the target square when you take the picture. How are you gonna do that with a tossed frisbee?

      --

      --
      Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
    3. Re:One use, tops by reyalpdemannu · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should have read the link....in the photo, there are measurements for plenty of things that the picture taker is not perpendicular to.

    4. Re:One use, tops by IpalindromeI · · Score: 1

      Please point them out. Everything that I see being measured in that picture is perpendicular to the "camera" (it isn't actually a photo).

      --

      --
      Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
    5. Re:One use, tops by reyalpdemannu · · Score: 1

      please see every measurement in the photo

    6. Re:One use, tops by IpalindromeI · · Score: 1

      Well, thanks for trying. I guess you don't care about getting your point across, in which case there's no point in continuing this subthread.

      --

      --
      Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
  67. Mod Parent Funny!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come on, thats freakin hysterical

  68. Add this software to... by Franklin+Brauner · · Score: 1

    ...yesterdays article, throw in a little Google Earth for good measure (pun intended), and...I think you get the idea.
    --
    Franklin

  69. Hourly contractors hate to save time! by SimHacker · · Score: 1

    If you bill by the hour, then this software will actually cause you to make a lot less money, because it saves you time, so you can't bill for as many hours!

    -Don

    --
    Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
  70. For more irregular objects... by lorenlang · · Score: 1

    ...there's a program called Snake Measurer which works pretty well. You just take an overhead photo (say of - oh, I don't know - a snake) and include something of a known size, like a ruler. Then you load it into the program, draw a line on your known object, enter the size of it and start placing dots on the subject you are wanting to measure. You end up with a length in the unit that you used for the known object. It's not 100% but it works pretty well. Best of all, it's free. As in beer. [Note: I have no attachment to the programmer(s) - I just have a snake to measure.]

  71. Targeting Assisstant? by nurbles · · Score: 1

    From some of the comments and the description of the product, it sounds like a true boon to folks trying to target specific points within a compound they cannot enter. For example, naughty folks might be able to quite accurately mark targets using a photo taken using a know object/position in the foreground with the target in the distance. I suppose these folks could also be contractors, but it is likely they'll be building craters rather than nice warm, safe buildings. I'm sure someone must've said this before, but I missed it when I scanned the comments.

  72. PhotoModeler Pro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm surprised nobody's mentioned PhotoModeler Pro yet. While somewhat more expensive than this, it's quite powerful, especially with my 8 MP DSLR camera, and it comes to the top of all the searches I did on this.

    It works a little differently in that you take multiple pictures, and mark points (or optionally use targets and have the software automatically locate them). With enough pictures (generally 3 or more, although 2 would be possible) and enough points, the software is capable of backsolving, locating all the points in the pictures in 3D. It's essentially the same idea behind the stereoscopic imaging your eyes do to measure distances in 3D with just two images, except much more flexible.

    The basic idea is that you go out, shoot an object from a bunch of angle, then go back to your computer and mark up the photos. The program can then compute the coordinates. (If you want absolute distances, you'll also need an absolute measurement to establish scale; a picture of a ruler can do the trick.) Very handy, if also quite a bit of work.

    This general topic is known as photogrammetry, which is the science of taking measurements from photographs, and generally involves solving a lot of big matrices to minimize errors on rays of intersection (if you're interested in the mathematical bits). With a known target to establish perspective, I wouldn't be surprised if these guys can establish a good set of measurements with just one picture. If you know distance (size), and field of view (camera focal length), and can establish relationships between points in the picture (this would work best for things in the same plane as the target, or at least at known, most likely right angles), then it's quite solvable.

  73. Law enforcement would probably by teknosapien · · Score: 1

    Law enforcement would probably like this as a tool for photos of a crime area or accident it could probably also be used in conjunction with Google maps to do surveying given enough time.

    --
    no matter how good it is, it is human nature always wants to make things better
  74. a few extra TONS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whenever I see the "a few extra pounds" descriptor, I just replace "pounds" with "tons" for my mental image and it is always far more accurate than 99.5%.