Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Sun Offering Optimized AMP Stack On Solaris

Posted by kdawson on from the LAMP=~s/L/S/ dept.

tbray writes "This is your friendly local Sun corporate drone reporting that we're going to be building and optimizing and DTrace-ing and shipping and supporting the AMP part of LAMP (details here). I think that basically the whole tech industry, excepting Microsoft, is now at least partly in the AMP camp."

135 comments

  1. Well, I'm AMP'd by denmarkw00t · · Score: 2, Funny

    Will Sun also be rolling out energy drinks for server admins?

    1. Re:Well, I'm AMP'd by Ant+P. · · Score: 2, Funny

      An optimised SPAM stack! Just what we need!

  2. The job isn't finished yet, until all of...(NICE!) by linuxbaby · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Great quote from TFA:

    The job isn't finished yet, until all of Apache and MySQL and PostgreSQL and PHP and Python and and Ruby and Rails are in the package, all optimized for Solaris, all stuffed with DTrace probes, and all with developer and production support available. It won't be long.
  3. i love carpet... i love desk.. by President_Camacho · · Score: 2, Funny

    We're going to be building and optimizing and DTrace-ing and shipping and supporting the AMP part of LAMP (details here).

    I love lamp.

    --
    Wizard Needs Food, Badly
    1. Re:i love carpet... i love desk.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know what we're yelling about!

    2. Re:i love carpet... i love desk.. by ryanov · · Score: 1

      Do you really love lamp, or are you just saying it because you saw it [on Slashdot]?

    3. Re:i love carpet... i love desk.. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      The lamp is shagging out with the sofa and the carpet is jealous. Is there's going to be any shagging, the carpet wants all the action.

    4. Re:i love carpet... i love desk.. by jo42 · · Score: 1

      It's "LAMP" you educated (?) clod.

  4. Yeah but... by dasOp · · Score: 2, Funny

    How about an optimizied, Dtraced and -l"-froot" free telnetd?

  5. The "AMP Camp"??? by nuzak · · Score: 0, Troll

    I think that basically the whole tech industry, excepting Microsoft, is now at least partly in the AMP camp."

    Yeah, because they have ASP.NET, which pretty much blows the doors off of most other things productivity-wise.

    Oh yeah and Sun pushes this little thing called Java. It's also pretty productive once you use a proper framework like Spring or Seam. There's a few Ruby developers who also aren't part of this "in crowd" I guess. In fact, the "AMP Camp" is starting to look pretty darned old and tired. But keep shaking those pom-poms.

    --
    Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    1. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by CodeShark · · Score: 3, Informative
      Ummm, no.... A perfectly tuned, very very expensive MS stack blows the doors off the average LAMP stack.


      But spend the same amount of money on the LAMP stacks, and you get can high availability plus database replication, load balanced multiple application servers, plus the bandwidth, and probably most of the programming expense, pepsi and pizza a team could could consume -- per year.


      Seems to me that ASP and Java are the tired stacks. Not LAMP & Ruby.

      --
      ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
    2. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by m0rph3us0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What makes the MS stack shine, is the developer tools. Try debugging through from the webserver to the webservices, debug the XSLT, down into the database and into the stored procedures in LAMP.

      If you could do it it would take at least 5 different applications running on different machines. There is nothing like being able to watch a particular users request flow right through the whole system. Yeah it takes a few minutes to setup all the watch conditions on production hardware, but in DEV it is just beautiful.

    3. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by fdawg · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Try debugging through from the webserver to the webservices, debug the XSLT, down into the database and into the stored procedures in LAMP. If your setup requires that level of debugging, I find your competency suspect.

    4. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by killjoe · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Yeah, because they have ASP.NET, which pretty much blows the doors off of most other things productivity-wise."

      As a ASP.NET programmer let me be the first one to say BULL FUCKING SHIT!!!.

      ASP.NET makes it easy to slap controls on a screen and bind them to a recordset. If that was the entirety of your programming efforts then it would be productive. In the real world that's like 10% of job or less. In the real world I have debugging, refactoring, building, deploying, testing, and a billion other tasks where visual studio gets in my way and windows itself throws up roadblocks the size of winnebegos.

      When you consider the the whole of the software development life cycle ASP.NET and visual studio are at the bottom of the stack.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    5. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Its not that you *have* to do that amount of debugging, but that you *can*. I suppose it does matter if you have several teams that write different tiers of a n-tier architecture (we've done that - web monkeys wrote the front end to a specified API, DBdevs write stored procedures. Poor application programmers get the blame when anything goes wrong, and poor system/middleware devs have to then find out who's right (or wrong as is the case). So being able to debug all the way through is rather handy.

      Really - don't knock something for being good.

    6. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      Remember that the original article was about SAMP stack - and the amount of money you can spend on MS stuff pales into insignificance when you start buying Sun hardware!

      LAMP still easily give you the best price/performance.

    7. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but you don't need Sun hardware to run Solaris. Solaris is free.

    8. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by kchrist · · Score: 1

      But you don't need Sun hardware to run Solaris, so it can cost exactly as much as Linux: the cost of the hardware.

      --
      Web consulting +
    9. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 1

      If you need to use an interactive debugger at all, I find YOUR competency suspect.

      --
      Your ad could be here!
    10. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Failover and bare metal recovery are a lot harder with MS systems - do you really want to be adding to the downtime by waiting on hold to MS in India to get an activation code before you can set up a replacement machine? All other vendors have options to deal with licencing in this situation becuase they actually are ready for the enterprise.

    11. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I do such debugging every day, and with Catalyst, and Firebug... its easy. Either Catalyst's mini web server, or Mod_perl prints the server side errors and SQL queries for me, and Firebug handles the client side errors, and allows me to examine transactions between the two. Meanwhile Eclipse is checking my perl and javascript code as I go.

      It doesn't get any easier than that, does it?

    12. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      You need an interactive debugger to know what the program is doing. Unless of course you write %100 bug free code which I doubt

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    13. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by Allador · · Score: 1

      The most common usage, in my experience, is troubleshooting unexpected behavior with other people's code. Had to use it a number of times recently with OJB, to figure out why something is happening that shouldnt be.

    14. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by Allador · · Score: 1

      Not that I necessarily disagree with you in general, but in this specific case, that doesnt make much sense.

      You just build the box, put it back in production, and take your time over the next 30 days to work out activation. There's no critical path preventing you from moving the box back into production until after its activated.

    15. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Funny

      LAMP still easily give you the best price/performance.

      Illegal division by zero

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    16. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by joss · · Score: 1

      You don't *need* to use an editor, you can write your programs with cat if you really want to. Not using the best tool for the job is a sign of stupidy rather than proficiency.

      --
      http://rareformnewmedia.com/
    17. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      looks like you need an irony interpreter. It's obvious the parent is mocking the parent poster who made the presumptuos comment first.

    18. Re:The "AMP Camp"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is such a load of bullshit propaganda.

      Sun has and has had for at least a year now, the *cheapest* servers with *the most* features of all the competition.

      How much does the cheapest DELL or hp or IBM servers cost? Sun servers start at $950USD, *show me* DELL, hp or IBM beating that.

      And while we're at it, I can get a *32* CPU-on a chip T1000 system, that's eco friendly and energy efficient for about $4000 USD in a decent config.

      How much does the competition cost again?

      Oh and yeah, those ultra cheap systems happen to run Solaris, the most advanced, open source, gratis operating system on the planet.

      So, the facts, numbers and figures are clearly against you. I suggest you crawl back into your IT-incompetence hole now.

  6. Meanwhile... by linguae · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...Microsoft is announcing an optimized ISA (IIS Server, SQL Server, ASP.NET) Linked List on Windows Vista(TM). More details to follow.

  7. Ain't that cute by stratjakt · · Score: 1

    Sun still thinks they're "the whole tech industry". Except Microsoft.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Ain't that cute by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Well, Microsoft thinks they're 'the whole tech industry' except for third party extension developers for the Windows platform. And it ain't cute.

    2. Re:Ain't that cute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because they more or less *are*.

      Sun happens to have some of the *best* computer scientists and senior engineers in the IT/CS industry.

      Also, unless you've been under a rock for the past two and a half years, or are simply hell bent on spreading FUD, Sun is *the firm* that has the highest number of released *innovations* in comparison to other firms in the industry.

  8. And if you configure the system with tcsh... by EvanED · · Score: 1

    ... you can use the acronym STAMP.

  9. You call that an AMP stack? by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Funny

    THIS is an amp stack. /dundee

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:You call that an AMP stack? by hotdip · · Score: 2, Funny

      dude, that looks like a half-stack to me.

    2. Re:You call that an AMP stack? by baldass_newbie · · Score: 1

      Does that go to eleven?

      --
      The opposite of progress is congress
    3. Re:You call that an AMP stack? by MooUK · · Score: 1

      That? Pah, two heads and a single cab is NOT a big amp stack. One of the more successful of the local bands here uses a two-speaker-cab bass amp that's as tall as me, and a band we had play one of the gigs I run a few weeks ago uses one that's even taller.

      Not that the size of the amp tends to make much positive difference to the sound when done properly.

    4. Re:You call that an AMP stack? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Pfft, that's nothing.

      --
      https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
    5. Re:You call that an AMP stack? by antonyb · · Score: 1
      Pfft. Its like top trumps.


      ant.

  10. Yawn.... by CodeShark · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Seriously....since I don't really want to use Sun hardware or Solaris, tell me again, why would I want to leave the "L" (Linux) out of the Apache/MySql/Php stack? Especially given the fact that most of the security and bug fixes --at least for Php and MySql -- which pop up are first dealt with in the Linux end of the stack.


    Seems to me that this is not so much News as it is "snooze..."

    --
    ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
    1. Re:Yawn.... by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Informative

      Seriously....since I don't really want to use Sun hardware or Solaris, tell me again, why would I want to leave the "L" (Linux) out of the Apache/MySql/Php stack?

      The same reason anyone wants to run Sun hardware -- sheer size, (preceived) reliability, as well as a vendor you think you can trust who sells good support packages.

      As much as Linux has been really making inroads into the core UNIX market by using commodity hardware, at some point, that big honking Sun server which they promise to have someone on site within a few hours moves you into a whole different level of enterprise hardware.

      Sure, you could spend the money on a huge Sun box and then probably run Linux on it. But, if you need hardware that costs that much, the extra costs for the support contract dwindle into not important. Anything based on PC architecture isn't quite going to scale as big as what a Sun machine. And, they also get to piggy back on LAMP, and say "OK, here's a turnkey solution for anything you'd use LAMP for, but it's on bigger hardware and comes with a support contract".

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Yawn.... by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      You can use Solaris on almost any modern hardware. Actually, most of Sun's hardware nowadays is built on top of AMD (and soon Intel) CPUs.

    3. Re:Yawn.... by m0rph3us0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For us we doubled the performance on our db by switching from RHEL4 to Solaris 10. The support for Solaris 10 is less than for RHEL4

    4. Re:Yawn.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "at least for Php and MySql -- which pop up are first dealt with in the Linux end of the stack."

      A very good point.

      I am more of a LAP user, Linux Apache Tomcat(JAVA), and PostgreSQL.
      I like my job.
      I work with guys using .NET. It looks ugly, buggy as hell, and spisgetti like.
      Not to mention the other TOO complicated, expensive, re-done in eclipse, WAP camp.

    5. Re:Yawn.... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      Lamp?

      what if I run freebsd (I do, actually).

      AMP are for the layers above the o/s, silly. the o/s below it matters less and less (in theory).

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:Yawn.... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think there's any real reason to, if you're familiar with Linux ... Sun would like people to use Solaris, and they have some interesting administration tools, and of course they'll sell you a support contract and might be more "PHB compatible" than many Linux vendors, but I've yet to see any good comparisons.

      A while back there were some interesting comparisons of SQL performance on Darwin/Mac OS X versus Linux, under controlled conditions on similar hardware; it would be interesting to see a Sun-AMP versus LAMP comparison, done by some disinterested party, using the same versions of all the same software except for the OS, wherever possible. If Sun could outperform Linux, it would be intriguing ... but if they can't, except for people who already are familiar and more comfortable with it than they are with Linux, I don't see a major draw.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    7. Re:Yawn.... by nuzak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hell, I more than doubled my performance on my filesystem-heavy loads going from RHEL4 to RHEL3. The syscall overhead went through the roof in EL4, even with SELinux off. I got tired of trying to compile a kernel (hey vendors, would it kill you to ship a config that doesn't panic when I compile using it without changing anything?) so I just retrograded. The next move will most likely be lateral, to another vendor.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    8. Re:Yawn.... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A while back there were some interesting comparisons of SQL performance on Darwin/Mac OS X versus Linux, under controlled conditions on similar hardware

      Ah, but remember -- Sun can sell you a machine which goes well beyond the whole 'similar hardware'.

      If they can sell someone an optimized, supported, and enterprise-class piece of hardware which is basically turnkey, and can fill the job of being your web-facing front-end, there will be companies for whom this is a very good idea.

      What Sun can sell you is the higher end for which there is no way you could build it with a commodity PC. Enterprise customers have enterprise hardware needs, and enterprise mindsets. Being "PHB Compatible" is a valuable thing in business, cause if things go to shit, you have someone who can come in and make things go again.

      Sun isn't trying to get the hobbyist shop; they're targeting higher end companies with bigger budgets who want reliability.

      If for nothing else than they're going to support the AMP stack, I have to commend Sun on this decision. This can only be good for those parts of the stack, and it won't really hurt Linux in any way -- this is complementary. This will have the effect of giving PHBs an option which uses Apache, MySQL, and PHP/PostgressSQL (whichever it is). I don't see this as being a 'lose' for the OSS people.

      Why is Slashdot so pathologically opposed to someone buying a computer and operating system, even if it makes sense for their business goals?

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    9. Re:Yawn.... by nadamsieee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Seriously....since I don't really want to use Sun hardware or Solaris, tell me again, why would I want to leave the "L" (Linux) out of the Apache/MySql/Php stack? Especially given the fact that most of the security and bug fixes --at least for Php and MySql -- which pop up are first dealt with in the Linux end of the stack.

      Solaris is a pretty darn good product. And if Sun starts providing full time support for the "AMP" part of the stack, you can probably bet that bug fixes for Solaris won't be far behind those for Linux. And if Sun follows through and GPLv3's Solaris, things really start to get interesting...

    10. Re:Yawn.... by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 1, Interesting

      most of Sun's hardware nowadays is built on top of AMD (and soon Intel) CPUs Nope, most of their stuff still runs on SPARC. They're selling their new Niagra-based systems as fast as they can crank them out, and they still ship a healthy number of UltraSPARC boxes too. They do have a lot of AMD-based stuff, but they're still predominantly a SPARC vendor.
      --
      Just junk food for thought...
    11. Re:Yawn.... by a.d.trick · · Score: 1

      Why is Slashdot so pathologically opposed to someone buying a computer and operating system, even if it makes sense for their business goals?

      Because, as one long dead poet named John Donne wrote:

      No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.

      Now Donne was talking about dying, not changing computer platforms; but the main point still applies. Our actions affect everyone, and everyones actions affect us. It would be pathological to intentionally sabotage someone else's choice, but I think it's perfectly normal for Slashdotters to be (concerned|disappointed|annoyed).

    12. Re:Yawn.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is Slashdot so pathologically opposed to someone buying a computer and operating system, even if it makes sense for their business goals?

      For the same reason I'm pathologically opposed to people using Excel as a database, or spaces in Word for tab-stops.

      Your needs will always increase, not decrease. Picking a solution that won't scale will lead to more work down the road. That "more work" usually falls on the most technical person around, which is usually the slashdot reader. ("No, Windows 95 will not scale as a high-volume web server. Yes, I know something about computers.")

      After we've had to fix about 623 ways in which our employer thought "this is quick and cheap and works today so it's a good idea", we don't want to pick another one.

      I'm sure Sun is better than most in this regard. A server from Sun is obviously in a whole different league than Windows 95. But every system I've ever had to use, and not had source code for, I've run into the limits of. (Yes, I've had trouble with Solaris boxes.)

      If Sun has a proprietary system that's capable of doing everything I'll ever want to do, that's impressive ... but it would also be a first. I don't bet on firsts.

    13. Re:Yawn.... by Soong · · Score: 1

      But, I want to drop the "MP", oh, and the L. I'll run my MacOS Apache PostgreSQL Servlet webapps, woo, go MAPS!

      --
      Start Running Better Polls
    14. Re:Yawn.... by oojah · · Score: 1

      They're selling their new Niagra-based systems as fast as they can crank them out

      Well no kidding they're seriously tasty. I know if I won a ton of money that's what I'd get.

      Cheers,

      Roger

      --
      Do you have any better hostages?
    15. Re:Yawn.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      why would I want to leave the "L" (Linux) out of the Apache/MySql/Php stack?


      DTrace, zones, ZFS. Then throw in the Sun StorageTek Availability Suite and Solaris Cluster for fun: both are available as free downloads (AVS is open source (or will be soon)) or with upto 24x7 support.

    16. Re:Yawn.... by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Especially given the fact that most of the security and bug fixes --at least for Php and MySql -- which pop up are first dealt with in the Linux end of the stack.

      You say that like all the security and bugfixes are Linux-related.

      Which makes excising the 'L' part of LAMP sound appealing. Hope that's what you meant.

    17. Re:Yawn.... by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 1

      Not only Solaris, but the machines, specially the big ones, are pretty good stuff also.

      --
      Your ad could be here!
    18. Re:Yawn.... by squiggleslash · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sun sells computers that use a GPL'd CPU, and run a SDDL'd operating system (which will probably move to GPLv3 when that's released.) What's proprietary about it again?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    19. Re:Yawn.... by jZnat · · Score: 1

      Hey, those are the same letters from the SAMP stack in TFA! Awesome!

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    20. Re:Yawn.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      !v

    21. Re:Yawn.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sir I doff my hat to you; a sensible and measured response!

    22. Re:Yawn.... by shin0r · · Score: 1

      "every system I've ever had to use, and not had source code for, I've run into the limits of."

      Are you suggesting you max out the capabilities of every system you ever used, and then somehow "edit the source code" to enable greater performance?

      The delusion.

      --
      Super Awesome Broadband
    23. Re:Yawn.... by auntfloyd · · Score: 1

      But every system I've ever had to use, and not had source code for, I've run into the limits of.

      Solaris is open source.

    24. Re:Yawn.... by CodeShark · · Score: 1

      Very very good points. My belief has been that a properly clustered set up of Linux boxes would usually kick the backside of most single servers, but from a corporate standpoint I can see where the single source hardware and OS support + AMP stack would be something worth considering. Thanks!

      --
      ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
    25. Re:Yawn.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...since I don't really want to use Sun hardware or Solaris, tell me again, why would I want to leave the "L" (Linux) out of the Apache/MySql/Php stack?"

      What exactly justifies using Linux instead of Solaris? Let's see here...

      Linux? Gratis.
      Solaris? Gratis.

      Freeware? Runs on both platforms.
      Linux reliability? Which reliability? Install Linux and pray that nothing gets screwed up?

      Solaris reliability? Have Solaris installed and configured automatically, install the gratis Sun cluster software, use ZFS, and enjoy the bonus benefits of built-in self-healing, FMA and SMF.

      Commercial support? Linux commercial support is more expensive than that for Solaris. Don't believe me? Use that browser thingy and check it out.

      Standards in Linux? Which standards? Linux is worse than Windows! It *intentionally* breaks standards in the name of "progress".

      Standards in Solaris? Hell yeah! UNIX 2003 certification, System V release 4.0, POSIX compliant! And unless you're IT-incompetent, you'll know that's *extremely* important when running IT day in and day out.

      Engineering in Linux? Which engineering? Since when do Linux geeks know what the word ENGINEERING means? The whole "OS" is a HUGE HACK JOB.

      Engineering in Solaris? Yes, like, 35 years of it, by the brightest computers scientists to ever grace the field of IT and computer science. And that includes FORWARD AND BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY and PHENOMENAL DOCUMENTATION.

      So, unless you're just a drooling Slashdot/GNU/Linux fanboy that likes to bow down before the sitting penguin three times a day, and drool over his DELL PC *desktop* used as a *server*, what's your reason for running that Linux HACK JOB again?

  11. Linux is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The old BSD mantra is back with a vengeance. It's a case of when enough is enough: AMP runs anywhere, including non-free platforms. People feel just ok with Vista, Microsoft's monopoly controlling their mediocre lifes and tons of software for free as well as free WMV porn.

    Linux and GNU won't go anywhere either in the industry or at homes.

    1. Re:Linux is dying by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      So.... you... apparently... think... that the industry is going to settle on Vista + Apache/MySQL/PHP|Perl|Python on the server?

      That's cute.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  12. Excepting MS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Microsoft is indeed working on optimizing PHP for Windows, and they certainly support Python with IronPython (which is quite often faster than CPython).

    dom

    1. Re:Excepting MS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... Python with IronPython (which is quite often faster than CPython).

      I'd like to clear up your misconception, just in case anyone is foolish enough to buy your claim.

      We performed extensive benchmarking of both CPython and IronPython recently, in preparation for rolling out a Django-based web site. Let me tell you, what you claim is not the case. IronPython was much slower than CPython for every single benchmark we ran.

      Our benchmarks weren't all microbenchmarks, either. We set up our production system on two identical servers, running Windows 2003 and PostgreSQL. One server used CPython, the other used IronPython. The server running CPython was able to serve up over 350% more page views per second than that running IronPython.

      For the microbenchmarks we did run, testing things like the garbage collection, list handling, string manipulation, and so on, we found that CPython was always the clear winner, and usually by a fairly significant margin.

      So what you say has been disproven with actual data and the benchmarking of production-grade systems. CPython is basically always faster than IronPython, often by a statistically large margin.

    2. Re:Excepting MS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, CPython is faster for things like garbage collection -- it doesn't clean up circular references and doesn't compact, so it has much less work to do. Of course that means it's pretty much impossible to write a large CPython app that doesn't leak memory. Other places CPython is faster include eval of single-use strings.

      On the other hand, IronPython is much more scalable on SMP machines (like pretty much any that you can buy now) because it allows Python code to execute on as many CPUs as your computer has simultaneously. A multithreaded compute-bound Python process will not increase its performance on an SMP machine, and will in fact probably decrease its performance due to contention for the global interpreter lock. I'm considering moving a multithreaded Python app to IronPython so that I can get SMP scalability without rewriting it.

      For my compute-intensive benchmark, IronPython executes in 96 seconds what takes CPython 127 seconds.

      dom

  13. SAMP? by KnowledgeKeeper · · Score: 0

    It would be cool to try how it works... perhaps one day when that Solaris DVD arrives.

    --
    It is always better to be a first grade version of yourself than a second grade version of someone else.
    1. Re:SAMP? by baldass_newbie · · Score: 1

      Really. How long has that been?
      I'm wondering if my Vista DVD will get to my house quicker.

      --
      The opposite of progress is congress
    2. Re:SAMP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better you should worry about Vista SP1, SP2, SP3...

    3. Re:SAMP? by KnowledgeKeeper · · Score: 0

      Hm... dunno. Three, four weeks?

      Anyhow, let us know how the VAMP (Vista+AMP) works out for you (or bleeds you dry :) )

      --
      It is always better to be a first grade version of yourself than a second grade version of someone else.
  14. New acronym: SAMP by hackingbear · · Score: 1

    SAMP = SAMe Product

  15. Well, there are reasons that some would like this. by zappepcs · · Score: 1

    Those of us who have some fairly big Sun iron would love to see this happen post haste. That would take some of the hodge-podge out of a few systems that I work on/with. Trying to ditch the Oracle license fees is a GoodThing!

    --
    Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
  16. Can you just un-install Solaris? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many other 10+ year old security holes are there in Solaris?

    1. Re:Can you just un-install Solaris? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 0, Troll

      The answer is in the form of a question: given Solaris' marketshare, does it really matter?

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:Can you just un-install Solaris? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that the telnet exploit doesn't work on any version of Solaris except 10, what's the first 10+ year old security hole that you refer to?

  17. Re:The job isn't finished yet, until all of...(NIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Funny, I build PHP and Apache at least once a month and it only takes me 25 minutes. There's no logic to optimizing poor performers like Apache and PHP, these are popular because they're flexible and Ruby performs spectacularly badly (even Yarv). Basically, if users cared about performance they'd be using languages other than those listed. They probably wouldn't be using Apache either.

    That leaves them to optimize the databases, DTrace away guys...

  18. Postgres Migration by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wish there were a simple tool I could run that would analyze a LAMP install and migrate it to Postgres instead of MySQL.

    I don't want to get into a holy war about the relative merits: we already use Postgres, we will not support two database systems, we are not switching from Postgres to MySQL. MySQL might be good for others, but not for us.

    But we do get these LAMP apps that come bundled with MySQL. Usually they don't use any MySQL specific features that Postgres (and maybe moving some functions across the app/DB boundary) can't directly support. So I'd like to get a LAMP -> LAPP migrator that will automate the switch. Leaving optimizations for after the switch, to be performed by other (Postgres) tools or programmers/DBAs. The open source of these two DBs, and the open source of all these LAMP apps, should make migration between them accessible.

    I'm sure there are lots of people like me. Where's the tool that makes the open source as good for migrating among these programs as creating them from scratch?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Postgres Migration by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Better programing of these LAMP packages will end the need for a LAMP -> LAPP migration tool. When the database connections are abstracted properly it becomes fairly trivial to swap out DB backends without changing much, if anything of the application itself.

      --
      I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
    2. Re:Postgres Migration by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Indeed, if you're using the Perl DBI or one of the better PHP DB libraries along with SQL that's not in a nonstandard dialect, you can pretty much edit the config to say 'MySQL' or 'Postgres'. I'm sure the other languages approach this if not matching it.

    3. Re:Postgres Migration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No idea about such migration tool but you may have to look more closely at applications using Hibernate or similar packages. Then transition between databases is (supposed to be) seamless. It looks like more and more applications are taking such approach.

    4. Re:Postgres Migration by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      The only "hibernate" package I find is for notebook sleep mode. Where is it?

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    5. Re:Postgres Migration by coredog64 · · Score: 1

      So I'd like to get a LAMP -> LAPP migrator Is that something like a LAPP dance?

    6. Re:Postgres Migration by PHPfanboy · · Score: 1

      It's a Java clustering (amongst other things) technology

      --
      29 mpg. YMMV.
    7. Re:Postgres Migration by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Funny

      When the database connections are abstracted properly it becomes fairly trivial to swap out DB backends without changing much, if anything of the application itself.

      Nice in theory, but MySQL, being an "extended subset" of SQL, doesn't support a lot of standard SQL features, then makes up for it by doing it their own nonstandard way. Perl is nice about abstraction with the DBI, but PHP is a complete mess. Every PHP project I've seen either a) uses raw mysql_* functions or b) uses a roll-your-own db "abstraction" which is tied to mysql tighter than the ball gag in CmdrTaco's mouth when Cowboy Neal re-enacts the gimp scene from Pulp Fiction.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    8. Re:Postgres Migration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      100 bucks at rentacoder will get you adodb interface for most LAMP apps.

      YOU will need to qa it though.

    9. Re:Postgres Migration by Furry+Ice · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you've never actually maintained a large application that supported more than one database. It's not the most difficult problem to solve in the world, but it's pretty far from trivial at times. SQL may be standardized, but no one implements the standard.

      Sometimes, you end up having to have a different schema for the different databases because of optimizations that one supports and the other doesn't. For example, modeling trees in Oracle can be done with the CONNECT BY clause, which very few (any?) other databases have, so instead you choose whatever your database can deal with (there are many representations for trees; there's a whole book on the subject, actually: http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/bookdescription.c ws_home/702605/description#description).

      Often you can choose something that works reasonably well on all the platforms you need to support, but if it ends up being a bottleneck (I've seen it happen more than once), you end up making different schemas and having to deal with all the headaches that come with it.

    10. Re:Postgres Migration by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 1
      Thank you for quoting the second half of my post, and restating the first half with a full paragraph of babble.

      Better programing of these LAMP packages will end the need for a LAMP -> LAPP migration tool. Care to explain how our opinions are any different?
      --
      I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
    11. Re:Postgres Migration by illumin8 · · Score: 1

      So I'd like to get a LAMP -> LAPP migrator that will automate the switch.
      Since most of these LAMP applications are shipped as source code anyway, and the install procedure usually says something like "Run mysql -u root dbinstall.sql", you are already manually installing the database or creating the schema by importing the SQL. Why not just import it into Postgres and see if it works?

      The only hard part is looking through all of the PHP code and changing every call from it's MySQL equivelant to Postgres equivelant... This is why I like Perl DBI a lot better because it is database independent and easy to switch back and forth between different production databases.
      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
    12. Re:Postgres Migration by drew · · Score: 1

      If the people writing these apps can't be bothered to use decent DB abstraction layer, do you really want to run their code?

      I know DB abstraction isn't perfect, but it certainly lessens the pain to the point where doing a manual search and replace of SQL statements that don't work correctly in the new DB isn't so daunting.

      And if you're doing so much database specific syntax that even that task is daunting, you should probably be putting your SQL statements into stored procedures, so that porting to a new database only requires writing compatible procs, and the application code can remain untouched.

      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
    13. Re:Postgres Migration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hibernate has nothing whatsoever to do with clustering. It's an object-relational mapper, and it's also more or less the basis for the Java Persistence API (it's one implementation anyway, since JEE5 has no JPA reference implementation). Clustering is something you get from the database vendor.

    14. Re:Postgres Migration by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      you didn't accuse CmdrTaco and Cowboy Neal of being homosexual.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    15. Re:Postgres Migration by PHPfanboy · · Score: 1

      Well I guess the application architect at Europe's largest telco must have been wrong when he told me he needed something like this in order to share content and objects across a web server cluster. My bad.

      --
      29 mpg. YMMV.
  19. Did you know... by affliction · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Sun Offering Optimized AMP Stack On Solaris

    If you combine the words Sun and Oferring you get "suffering".

    Something to ponder.

  20. SAMP? why not AMPS by fishyfool · · Score: 1

    sounds way cooler

    --
    Enjoy Every Sandwich
    1. Re:SAMP? why not AMPS by serialdogma · · Score: 1

      But what would it be called it ran on sparc? ßAMP?

    2. Re:SAMP? why not AMPS by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Heck, why not SPAM?

    3. Re:SAMP? why not AMPS by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      And if Microsoft ported IIS to Solaris (cringe) you could have SIMP.

      And if someone ported UltiDev Cassini Web Server to HP-UX, you could have HUMP.

      Oh boy, this is fun!!

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    4. Re:SAMP? why not AMPS by Dorceon · · Score: 1

      No love for SMAP?

      --
      What sound do people on rollercoasters make? Hint: it's not Xbox 360.
  21. Painfully pointless... by evilviper · · Score: 0

    I think this takes the old "slow news day" on /. to a whole new level.

    The story: Sun has started optimizing a handful of apps.

    I can barely contain my excitement.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  22. Re:SAMP VS LAMP by joe_bruin · · Score: 4, Funny
    No doubt, SAMP > LAMP.

    strcmp confirms it, SAMP is greater than LAMP!

    $ cat amp.c
    main() { printf("%d\n", strcmp("SAMP", "LAMP")); }
    $ gcc amp.c
    $ ./a.out
    1
  23. Can't wait... by Grinin · · Score: 1

    Recently Sun was giving out source SDKs for many of their products on DVDs for free. I'm still waiting for mine in the mail, but until then, I'll keep testing OpenSolaris on my test box which has been alive and kicking since 2000 with no upgrades! :D

    --
    Relocating to San Francisco / Palo Alto... Hire me?
  24. because they already optimized Java Servlets? by Soong · · Score: 1

    This would be Sun getting-around-to optimising the 2nd rate web server package they offer. Customers demand it, so Sun offers it, but they'd rather sell you a Java Servlet based web server. (Dunno if Sun has a preferred SQL DB to go on the far side of those JDBC connections, but I prefer PostgreSQL to MySQL.)

    --
    Start Running Better Polls
    1. Re:because they already optimized Java Servlets? by coredog64 · · Score: 1

      (Dunno if Sun has a preferred SQL DB to go on the far side of those JDBC connections, but I prefer PostgreSQL to MySQL.) Apparently so does Sun, as they're shipping PostgreSQL on Solaris 10 and they even offer a support contract for the same. I have this sneaking suspicion that the way that Oracle licenses it's RDBMS is eating into Sun's hardware sales and they're looking to offset this. Or maybe they'd rather that people bought their app server rather than Oracle's offering. Either way, I'm hoping that we'll get the direction to go with PostgreSQL rather than MySQL at work...

  25. telnetd fix now available by dananderson · · Score: 2, Informative
    A fix for telnetd is now available for free download from sunsolve.sun.com e SPARC patch is 120068-02 or later and X86 patch is 120069-02.

    In any case, it's probably best to disable telnetd with svcadm disable telnet Better yet, next time you install or upgrade use the "reduced networking profile" which has most services disabled (not ssh).

  26. Dtrace by starseeker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a feeling Dtrace probes might be a big, big win here - if they instrument it as they have the Solaris system itself that level of performance tuning integrated into the entire software stack may allow for some Really Impressive payoffs.

    On the high end, bottlenecks are something to really watch for and identify, and Dtrace is an excellent tool for that sort of activity. This will be very interesting to watch.

    Also, if Solaris DOES go GPLv3, the immediate availability of a superior SAMP stack that is GPL could turn a lot of heads, and may even displace some LAMP systems quickly and painlessly.

    --
    "I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
  27. Get Some Clues - One, Perhaps Two by Smackintosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The answer is in the form of a question: do you have any clue as to what you're talking about?

    I'm being completely serious here.

    Anyone who knows anything about the IT marketplace will know that of the UNIX-variant operating systems (yes, that includes Linux), Sun Solaris has quite a significant share. In fact, a good deal of the professional UNIX admins out there prefer Solaris over the other choices, and again, that includes Linux.

  28. Generalizations by michaelmalak · · Score: 1

    I think that basically the whole tech industry, excepting Microsoft, is now at least partly in the AMP camp
    I think that basically you haven't worked in enough segments of the tech industry.

    Java is big in the finance industry because: 1) it's not subject to a monopoly, and 2) there's still somebody to sue when something goes wrong.

  29. Yes, but... by proxy318 · · Score: 1

    do their AMPs go to 11?

    --
    Saying your "phone ran out of batteries" is like saying your "car ran out of gas tanks".
  30. Re:SAMP VS LAMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And fag = you, just in case you're interested in equations.

  31. Tracing bugs by xming · · Score: 1

    Beter use Dtrace to trace the telnet bug.

    1. Re:Tracing bugs by CapeBretonBarbarian · · Score: 1

      Speaking of the telnet bug, it looks like a patch fixing the exploit was out within 24 hours:

      http://solaris.reys.net/english/2007/02/telnet_vul nerability_solaris_10

  32. What I don't get is... by ryanov · · Score: 1

    How is this different from their already-available CoolStack, which I'm already running on my T2000?

    http://cooltools.sunsource.net/coolstack/ ...they don't really explain it.

  33. They ship Derby with JDK 6 and Netbeans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I guess they want you to use that. Don't know how well it holds up under load -- I use PostgreSQL for anything heavy.

    Derby used to be Cloudscape. Pure Java DB.

    1. Re:They ship Derby with JDK 6 and Netbeans... by bberens · · Score: 1

      Basically Derby is a major improvement on the idea behind Access. It's got a tiny foot-print (2MB), super easy to install and configure, great application development integration via libraries, uses a standard SQL interface, etc. If you were in a MS shop and might use Access to house the information Derby is a good solution for you in Java land.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
  34. Re:The job isn't finished yet, until all of...(NIC by bberens · · Score: 1

    Actually, it's about reliability, scalability, and find-a-developer-who-is-familiar-with-the-technolo gy-ility. If you find a *nix sysadmin they more than likely have some knowledge of Apache. PHP developers are a dime a dozen. Why force another tool that gives you 10% better performance when you'll have to retrain your employees and not be able to get TONS of free support on top of your paid for support? I could ramble on and on but you get the idea. It makes business sense.

    --
    Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
  35. AMP CAMP by dexomn · · Score: 1

    FTA: >> I think that basically the whole tech industry, excepting Microsoft, is now at least partly in the AMP camp.
    Industry standards are generally incompatible with Microsoft's longstanding "Rube Goldberg" software development model.

  36. Uhh? by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

    In C++, some memory leaks can only be hunted and eliminated with an interactive debugger, so if that's what you were talking about, you're right.

    But I don't see it necessary at all in an interpreted language, and 99% of code nowadays is written in interpreted or managed languages.

    You can use printf, echo, Response.Write(), wxMessageBox() or whatever to debug a program without having to use an interactive debugger at all. I made a windows DLL recently, and I know I didn't used a debugger. I just used the return value of the exported function in the DLL to do all the debugging.

    --
    We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    1. Re:Uhh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can use printf, echo, Response.Write(), wxMessageBox() or whatever to debug a program without having to use an interactive debugger at all. Yes but that takes time to code up, re-compile and then strip-out/conditional-out when you're done - especially if you're not sure which part of the program you need to monitor and especially if you need to dump large complex structures out. An interactive debugger makes it so much easier.
  37. Forget (L)AMP by lithium100 · · Score: 1

    I use LLPR => Linux, Lighttpd, Postgresql, Rails :)

  38. This will not hurt Sun by innncomingg · · Score: 1

    Based on yoy revnue and profit growth over the last 2 quarters this will only help sun sales and not hurt it anyway. All the moves that sun has been making recently makes solid business sense. Hopefully they will continue to increase their user base steadily.

  39. Re:The job isn't finished yet, until all of...(NIC by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    It won't be long.

    Is that right after Sun support Sun supplied ATI 3D Rage cards on Sun supplied UltraSparc hardware on Sun Solaris 10 then?

    As a Sun Fanboy, I want to know when my kit will actually work?

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  40. Just because AMP is all you know about... by Marcus+Green · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "basically the whole tech industry, excepting Microsoft, is now at least partly in the AMP camp"

    Go to any job site of your choice.

    Do searches on
    apache
    mysql
    perl or PHP

    Then do searches on
    Oracle
    Java

    Allowing that most Java development is on the server side, try to draw a conclusion. Are these people spending good money advertising these jobs because they are using the technologies?. Is the whole tech industry, except Microsoft at least partly in the AMP camp or just the tiny bit that you are familiar with?

  41. Re:The job isn't finished yet, until all of...(NIC by bytesex · · Score: 1

    Perl, in the meanwhile, works like a charm, and out of the box on Solaris ;-)

    --
    Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
  42. Yeah, but which "P" ? by Etyenne · · Score: 1

    PHP ? Perl ? Python ? All of them ?

    --
    :wq
  43. I'd prefer an APJ stack (Apache,Postgres,Java/JSP) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd prefer an APJ stack (Apache, Postgres, Java/JSP); Or, the more complete stack: SAPJ (Solaris 10, Apache, Postgres, Java/JSP). Now that will scale from your hobby to your enterprise.

  44. Amp Stack... by jar240 · · Score: 1

    I used to rock out with my all-tube bass setu--oh...I thought you said Sunn amp stack...

    Chris

    --
    "You can drive out Nature with a pitchfork, but It always comes roaring back again." - Tom Waits
  45. Obvious - SPAM - Solaris/PHP/Apache/MySQL by mgkimsal2 · · Score: 1

    Not sure why Sun isn't advertising their new commitment to selling 'optimized SPAM' systems. The marketing just writes itself...

    --
    creation science book