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European PS3 To Play Fewer PS2 Games
Mondrian_was_a_square writes "When Sony launches the PS3 in Europe, consumers there won't be getting the same thing that US and Japanese buyers picked up at launch—they'll be getting less. Sony has just announced that the new revision of the PS3 will be less backwards compatible with PS2 games. 'Sony is looking to decrease the production cost of the Playstation 3, and they have opted to replace dedicated hardware with software that will replace its functionality. The hardware had been providing full backwards compatibility of PS2 games, but Sony makes it clear that the new configuration will not offer the same level of support. Certain PlayStation 2 format software titles may not perform properly on this system, the statement reads.'"
Not only are we in the UK paying (or not in my case) £425 per unit (approx $850), we are getting an inferior machine to boot? Jesus wept.
Is the the first time in console gaming history a launch system may be 'better' than the revisions of the same product?
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One of the nicest things about the PS3 in the US is its backwards compatibility. I'm basically able to buy any game from anywhere and play it without a problem using the newest firmware. Not having a PS2, this was a pretty nice feature. FFXII looks and plays really nice, as does older games like Deus Ex, which I bought specifically to test whether the PS3 would play it. Makes even less sense that they're going to do this without lowering the cost of the console for consumers.
The article here doesn't have a "reply" button beneath the summary. What gives?
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So yet again here in Europe we get it after everyone else, pay more, and get less.
:-)
Not that I was considering one anyone, got my Wii on launch.
Interestingly, even though the major online retailers here in the UK sold out of their preorder allocations of the Wii within minutes of going live, I've noticed a couple stating they will remove availability of the PS3 for online ordering as soon as they are gone too... well it's been over a week now the "Buy Now" button is still available. So maybe for one people are actually voting with their wallets
I'm sure one this gets out even more people will be buying your console sony.... well done! How many feet do they have?! Cos they keep on shooting themselves there.
Yeah, less hardware means it will be cheaper!!!
Oh, wait, it's £425. That's $835, sure that includes 17.5% VAT, but it's still ridiculous.
Fuck you Sony. Fuck you for ripping us off, and doubly fuck you for selling us substandard hardware compared to other countries. Fuck you for being Sony to boot.
Oh for christ sake! Come on! I am not a sony basher but jeez.
Europeans are people too
...if your name is Müller, O'Connor, Rossi, Johansen, or Kowalski.
Europeans will be playing less PS3 games too... on the plus side, they will be playing a lot of Wii games.
Right now, their biggest danger is developers changing their focus to the fast growing installed user base of Wii (and 360 though not growing as fast as the Wii). That sales potential is the main performance figure developers sweat about.
Actually, I remember once when Sony made great products and had savvy marketing. Of late, watching their tactics has been like watching a drunk fall down a long staircase.
From a manufacturing point of view it might make sense, but from a PR viewpoint its ridiculous. The only way it could have worked is if it offered the same (or better) functionality, or they passed the price-drop onto the consumer.
People will hear 'functionally reduced - doesn't play PS2 games" no-matter of what real situation is. I think the people who were thinking of trading in their ps2 in for money off/towards a ps3 might wait their time...
This might be a good move for sony, thats more of a bad move for sony.
The Good News is Sony has enough honesty to come out and say this before Europeans are royally screwed.
The Bad News is, that really sucks.
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Anything else is blowing smoke. It may be inferior to US/JAP PS3, how HOW inferior, the US machine plays close to 100% (it was 98% but many things were fixed in the 1.5 firmware). If the compatability initially drops to say 80%, and improves over time to say 90%, i don't think thats too bad. It's certainly offset by the fact I am getting a rev2 model, with for sure other hardware tweaks to improve reliability, based on the US beta test programe.. As for the price, people forget, the US price does not include any sales taxes or local taxes, the UK, and EU prices do include all taxes... Whilst it's still more expensive, it's 17.5% less than it was... Plus, EU gets 1Yr warranty minimum on all new purchases, I think the US is 90 days.. I would imagine this also has a bearing...
Before I continue, want to make it clear that I'm not trolling. I'm just curious about this.
What's to prevent you from purchasing a US version? Yes, you will most likely be restricted to purchasing games and movies from the US thanks to bullsh*t region coding, but from what I understand most TVs in the UK will support NTSC as well as PAL. Hardware like controllers or cables should work regardless of the version of the PS3, or so I would think. And when it comes to software, when I buy CDs or DVDs from around the world they generally arrive in less than a week using standard air mail. One of my friends in London buys DVDs from the US regularly.
Obviously, getting everything native to the UK would be infinitely more convenient for you, but if backwards compatibility is that important, would not a US PS3 be an acceptable inconvenience? Plus the exchange rate is definitely in England's favor!
Again, just curious.
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...that the software emulation will allow to scale the PS2-games to 720p high def resolution.
It doesn't mention that Sony want's to bring the backward compatbility to an level almost
as high as the hardware emulation in the US/Japan PS3 is too. See http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/85781
(in German). Not so bad as ist sounds.
So at what point do the US models fall victim to the same fate? I want to hold off on buying a PS3 for as long as possible, but I'll probably end up with one eventually (I typically end up buying all the major consoles...) and I don't want a crippled one. I need to know exactly how long I can wait before picking one up and still be able to get the good backwards compatibility.
The reason that the backwards compatibility is not as good, is because the original Japanese versions of the PS3 had a PS2 chip inside to handle the backwards compatibilty.
The newer versions of the PS3 will do the backwards compatability using emulation and not the actual PS2 hardware.
This means that the machines might be:
a)Quieter.
b)A better spec machine than the original version (less H/W bugs).
c)Less prone to breaking.
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I was expecting the price of a second-hand PS2 to drop significantly once the PS3 came out here. I guess it won't happen, now.
I can't say that I'm that pissed off - obviously, if I really wanted a PS2 I'd have got one already, and they aren't that expensive right now. But I can't really justify buying one when I'm already happy with the ample PC+DS libraries (and the not-so-ample-cube), so I'll breathe a sigh for missing out on Ico and get back to playing FreeCiv.
The PS9's emulation will be good enough. Good luck playing PS8 games though.
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I wasn't aware that they release games in the US that localized for each of the European countries' languages...
Plus the poor Brits would have to give up their U and S in "color" and "localize"!
At what point did I say that I was talking to all of Europe? At what point did I say that all of Europe should consider buying a US PS3? In fact, I was responding specifically to someone from the UK for a scenario that involves only the UK.
Idiot.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
PS3 games are region-free, but PS2 games are not. If I am not mistaken, a US PS3 will reject PAL PS2 games. Wonderful, eh?
It boils down to this: PS2 compatibility is not a feature that's moving a lot of units. If people are buying PS3s, it's because either: A) They have money to burn and "must have the best", B) That want a blu-ray player or C) they're hoping to play some fun games on it.
The PS2 is currently outselling everything but the Wii, so PS3 owners who don't have PS2s and want to purchase PS2 games are a distinct minority.
Of course, there are those PS3 owners who want to play old PS2 games on their new machines: well, Sony doesn't see the margin in that. They already got their splash by claiming the PS3 plays PS2 games, unlike the Xbox 360, which won't play xbox games (except for a whitelist). But now they've gotta face the bill, and as the PS3 US and Japan launches showed, PS2 emulation was neither trivial nor problem-free. It didn't drive purchases either.
ASDA UK are selling slimline PS2s for £50 at the moment. I don't see how a 2nd hand one would be any cheaper - if you want one get it now.
...of importing the US/JPY PS3 in the first place. Nice Catch-22, Sony.
I mean, since the overpriced, over hyped PS3 is doing such a bang up job against the Wii, why not scale back one of its best features?
Sony seems to have a strong need to shoot itself it the foot every chance it gets.
Finkployd
Interesting how the poster didnt mention this allows for the PS3 to support more games, or how it can be updated even easier that before or how the US PS3s didnt play all PS2 games or how things like texture filtering and icnreased resoltuions are an option. Its not like this is news, sony announced the move to software a long long time ago and everyone knew itd be less compat at the start but with some updates itd be more compat than the hardware. Always interesting to see posts from people who dont bother to do any research.
Europe doesn't mind incomplete backwards compatibility. In fact, Europe doesn't mind ____________.
Thew subject says it all really. I hate sony. Detest them. I was nearly going to buy a PS3. Not anymore...they've just pissed me off too much.
Expensive AND inferior console? OMGWTFLMAOROFL!
How in gods name can you do that sony?! You must get through a hell of a lot of horlicks in order to sleep at night.
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the psp uses the same OS as the PS3.
Thanks to dark alex we have a custom firmware that enables psp owners to do a lot of neat stuff.
I wonder how long will it take to someone make custom firmwares for the PS3?
... to the PS1 compatability that I have at the moment with my PS2? Will the PS3 play PS1 games?
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I read this story this morning too on a number of sites but the one thing I could not find were numbers.
All I've read is that the Euro PS3 will play fewer PS2. Exactly what does that mean?
1 less than the US version is fewer. But so is 2, 3 or even 10.
Does anyone know what the severity of the "issue" is and what games are likely to be affected? If it means God of War 2, FF12 and Manhunter 2 won't work now then that's pretty bad. But if it means that Red Faction or Fantavision now won't work then who honestly gives a shit?
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All that cursing. Buy A MS XBOX 360, because we all know they have YOUR best intest in mind (sarcasm). Just make sure you buy a ZUNE and MS VISTA ULTIMATE to make sure they all work together! And be sure not to forget to subscribe to xbox LIVE at 50$+ /year (6 years = 300$!).
You should probably just buy a wii a ps2 or wait a year or two. The PS2 is still a viable platform unlike xbox1 or gamecube.
The PS3 is expensive because blu-ray drives are expensive.
Europeans are always screwed when it comes to launch dates. We are used to that but at least sometimes this results in us actually getting a better product. Patches applied and production problems sorted out. So we get every single console after everyone else has had it but at least we usually get better systems.
Offcourse we also pay more, even if you account for different tax systems. But hey, that is the price to pay for the rest of the world beta-testing the product right?
Now along comes Sony, who already has enough trouble selling the PS3, and they give europe NOT only the usual long delay, the usual unexplained price difference BUT they give a lesser product AND ask us to accept an untested product (untested software emulation vs proven hardware) on top of it all?
I actually think the PS3 might have something intresting in it because of its linux capabilities (although so far it seems Sony has made every effort to kill this possibility) but just how far do they expect people to go?
Did Sony hire a mole from MS or Nintendo? Did they hire someone from the remains of british industry to make their decisions? Has the long japanese working week finally caught up with management and driven them utterly mad?
Yes, in theory it makes sense to reduce costs per unit especially with the PS3 but to screw over the europeans by given them a lesser untested product months after everyone for more money just doesn't seem to make a lot of marketting sense. Especially given that PS3 games at the moment are not exactly setting new sales records.
Oh well, Sony got a couple more weeks. They could still announce that the EU PS3 will not be able to play HD movies. Can't take any risks, can we? Must make sure this product tanks.
Perhaps this is all a cunning plan to avoid those nasty stories about shortages and people fighting over the PS3 at launch. Make it even more expensive, still have no good games out and reduce functionality.
Rememeber the tale of how MS won the desktop from IBM and Apple and the homecomputers? Not because MS was so brilliant but because IBM and Apple and the homecomputers all made really stupid decisions?
That is too simple for Sony's taste. It seems determined to make every boneheaded decision themselves.
It is pitifull. Lets face it, the hardware costs for the PS2 hardware can't be that high, but in order to save a few dollars they are willing to remove a key feature from their product. A key feature that is desperately needed as long as their are no killer PS3 games out while there are plenty of intresting PS2 games out, and in fact still being launched.
I have seen attempts to introduce laws that require older people to take driving exams again to prove they are still fit to drive.
Perhaps as management gets older HR should do re-hire procedures to see if they still qualify. Alternatively, maybe management that has been there longer then a decade should be just humanily put down. Put the sony leadership out of its misery.
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Why have backward compatibility on a console? As I see it there are 2 reasons:
1) As a consumer, if your console has backward compatibility you only have to have 1 device plugged in and hooked up to your TV. It helps with space issues and power issues.
2) As a company, it's a tick mark on a "features" list.
In order for number 1 to be useful it needs to encompass your entire library of games. If it doesn't then you still need to have your old console setup to play your old games. This defeats the purpose of backward compatibility entirely as no consumer I know gives a damn about item 2. There's no recourse to this sloppy craftsmanship other than to not buy the console, but that doesn't specify to these companies why.
Should they remove the feature? No. But as a consumer you should not take this "feature" into consideration unless your game library happens to match their compatibility list exactly.
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When exactly is Sony going to tell the europeans what exactly the capabilities are of this new system? Right now, still a month away from launch? No.
3 weeks before launch? No.
Two weeks? One week? 5 days? 2 days? 1 day? No.
They say they will (no actuall guarantee) announce it on launch day. So that gives customers how much time to cancel their pre-order incase they don't find the list to satisfaction?
That is right. NO TIME.
Honesty? No, sorry, not this time.
Oh but they said it now right? Well yeah, their lawyer told them too, if people had found out AFTER launch date they would have gotten their ass sued off.
Lets not forget that this is the EU, NOT the US or japan were big money rules. Holland is the EU country that forced Sony to exchange EVERY PSP with ANY defective pixels. (A rule that by the way goes for ALL LCD's, under dutch, and EU law, a product has to be fully functional and defective (sub)pixels are not part of it)
So they announce it now, in a queit way, hope people forget and then claim, well we had a list up on launch day to cover themselves out of deceptive sales lawsuits.
Sony and honesty? Yeah right.
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True, Sony never said anything about PS/2 support.
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But if you meant the PS2, as in the Playstation 2, then U are the only Ass around here.
Linky to press release: http://www.scee.presscentre.com/Content/Detail.as
Selected relevent quotes:
"The European PS3 will feature the Cell Broadband Engine(TM), 60 GB hard disc drive, Blu-ray Disc player, built-in Wi-Fi connectivity, SIXAXIS(TM) wireless controller. It also embodies a new combination of hardware and software emulation which will enable PS3 to be compatible with a broad range of original PlayStation® (PS) titles and a limited range of PlayStation®2 (PS2) titles."
"Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games..."
"Certain PlayStation 2 format software titles may not perform properly on this system."
And other references in the press release about future software patches to support more PS2 games, and a special list of compatible PS2 games for the EU version of the console (that isn't live yet).
Oh, and before you pull some blatant fanboi linguistic bullshit and say that Sony never literally said "reduced", then realize what everyone else does: They don't call the US/Japan PS3's support for the PS2 "limited", ergo being "limited" is a reduction. If it was the same level of support as the US/Japan version, they would have said words to that effect and let it drop. Instead they said words to the effect that the new PS3 is not designed with backward compatability as a major feature, new games are better, only a limited selection of old games will work. You'd have to be mental to not understand that this means a reduction. Maybe you are mental. We're not.
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Yeah. On /. it seems that people are stop hating Microsoft when it comes to consoles. When there are any other Microsoft news everybody (minus the astroturfers) seems to agree that Microsoft is evil. /. readers. Why do they just switch Microsoft with Sony when it comes to the consoles? (..not saying Sony doesn't do its fair share of shit.. like the whole PS3 Europe or rootkit debacle.. but that's still nothing compared to freaking Microsoft)
How did MS get the free pass on the XBOX and XBOX360? They're doing the same evil stuff there. Pushing DirectX into the throats of developers, the usual marketing fluff, deceiving people with crap like XNA and so on.
I don't get this attitude of
you post a response to cursing you get modded flame bait..
I love the fact that they are paying the most too! hahah!
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If someone could please cite ONE decision SCEA has made since, say, the PS3 pricing announcement that was actually a GOOD DECISION, well, I'll maybe be willing to change my mind. But everything they have done since about that time has been just plain stupid. Well, anything that wasn't simple incompetence... Actually, if anyone can name one good decision that Sony has made regarding the PS3, period, I'll be impressed. The unit is gigantic, yet you can't stack anything on it. The controllers have no rumble, which Sony said was infeasible, yet the competition is doing it. They added the bullshit SIXAXIS sensors to the controller, and now some games will use that functionality and probably require it. I don't know about you, but trying to get good results out of tilting a controller shaped like a joypad is HORRIBLY HARD. I used to have the microsoft gamepad with tilt... I gave it away. The unit has incomplete back-compatibility already and now they are making it worse. They put Blu-Ray in the system and now they are losing literally hundreds of dollars on every unit sold. The list goes on and on, and it's a list of poor decisions.
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Lemme check.....
Yep, Zonk is responsible.
Don't forget that the emulation may start out worse for the EU model, but Sony has a good history at providing software updates for the PSP, I see no reason why this won't be the same for the PS3 and there is a chance that the software emulation of PS2 titles will improve over time.
I live in Australia and can't wait to get my hands on one of these, bring on March 23rd!!!
...According to Toms Hardware atleast.
Ah, cheers, that's close enough to my magic price point that I'd go for it. Wrong country though :(