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Washington State Encourages Internet Sales Tax
prostoalex writes "Washington state Governor signed a tax bill encouraging out of state businesses to collect sales taxes on purchases made by Washington state residents. It should be noted, though, that Washington state does not collect personal income tax, and hence relies on state sales tax for 53.1% of its revenues." As the article notes, "People who purchase items from out-of-state Internet or catalog companies are currently supposed to pay the sales tax, but rarely do." Looks like Washington-staters won't be able to fib on their tax returns about internet purchases, starting in 2008.
I don't think this is legal under the constitution. The sales are made outside WA and therefore cannot be taxed by the WA government. A lot of governors have tried this crap, I don't think any have succeeded though.
It's stupid anyway. Sales taxes in Seattle are up to 9.1% which is pretty damn ridiculous. If I were living in WA and this went through, I'd move. Internet purchases help make WA living more affordable.
Latewire
Sure, avoid the 6$ on the hundred, however its going to cost ya 30$ to ship it. Plus tax.
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
Most states consider barter or exchange to be taxable at the value of the goods exchanged.
The fact you have individual City tax rates is the biggest problem.
While the current situation in Canada is similar to the U.S., out of province purchase isn't subject to sales tax unless the company has a local presence, or you live in Quebec. (They are always the exception).
Implementing tax collection based on destination in Canada is simple, a table containing the province, tax rate, expiry date, and gl code are probably sufficient.
In the U.S. you would need a complete database of Zipcodes, and, or addresses to resolve the tax rate. Ugh! Now you have to maintain that, and that is probably on a monthly basis, not even yearly.
Ya. Sure, your logic is great, up until the base price difference. For instance, item A costs $100 in Washington, while item A costs $50 on the net. I'd rather pay the $30 shipping.
Six dollars? Hah. Yeah, right.
Where I live right now, sales tax is 8.5%.
In the bay area, sales tax is something like 9%, I believe. That is on top of about 9.3% state tax. That's more than 18% tax, not counting federal tax!
Also, shipping is very cheap. For example, with Amazon I pay $2 per item for overnight shipping. I pay nothing for two-day shipping.
And, finally, I'd rather pay $10 to UPS for shipping an item than $10 to the government for the sales tax, on top of property tax and state income tax and federal income tax.
Frankly, less government. Smaller government. Leave me the fuck alone. I come from a state without a sales tax. I'll tell you what a sales tax encourages me to do... spend less. Which means no sales tax for the state anyway. I have no interest in throwing away 10% of my money so the government can buy expensive cheese for fat chicks with ten kids.
what exactly, did the state of the purchaser do, or provide to deserve 'their share'
seriously.. I pay property taxes to my community, which benefit my community..
if I don't like them, I can move- and pay taxes (or not) elsewhere...
I can see a state requiring businesses to pay sales tax based on their location- you sell from delaware, you have no other locations, you charge no taxes..
benefit to deleware? lotsa companys move to delaware for real.. and increase the states revenue in other ways (new UPS center, new fedex center, new airports, new train hubs)
you sell fron NYC, you pay NYC taxes, all the way down to the city level......
but, if I sell from delaware, and sell to WA, how is the states infrastructure involved that they deserve anything?
if I am a bad merchant, which states attorney general/BBB is going to be contacted?
(hint, the seller's state)
it should be evolutionary taxation, 50 little economic centers- stodgy states can charge the high/heavy taxes and just have funds from heavy handedness and spend it on tax collection/enforcement, enlightened states can charge no sales tax, and enjoy increased revenues from having more citizens, employed in more jobs....
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I thought you were supposed to avoid the tax by setting up an anarchocapitalistic consulting company that insists that all their clients pay with gold, which you then never have appraised. By doing this you avoid the taxes by claiming that you were never actually paid in US currency, so you have no reason to claim it. You can read all about this technique on my Gold-It's Good For You Blog [www.imafuckingmorondipshit.com]. Oh, and my brother's band is the shit, so you should go there and buy their album with your hard-earned cash, because they need to make a living. Down with The Man!
"Washington state Governor signed a tax bill encouraging out of state businesses to collect sales taxes
...
Looks like Washington-staters won't be able to fib on their tax returns about internet purchases, starting in 2008.
Why? Washington state has NO power to do anything more than "encourage" out-of-state companies to comply. Not only can't they practically enforce this, trying to do so would violate Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 of the US constitution.
States can pass all the stupid laws they want regarding what you have to pay for "use" tax and the like. But at the end of the day (at least, at the end of April 15th), cash still lets you make untraceable (and untaxable after-the-fact) purchases.
I will really never understand why we accept "death and taxes" as somehow magically inevitable. The governments of the world have demonstrated themselves completely incapable of responsibly allocating the resources of the citizenry for the common good. Why do we still let them?
We should view tax evasion as one of the most noble of "crimes", depriving aggressive social parasites of their sole form of food.
I agree, I live near Toronto, we have a 6% federal goods and service, and a 7% provincial tax.
But being the kind of guy I am, I'd rather buy locally if I can. Its hard to look at something on the internet and say 'this box will work exactly that way' when I get it. Besides, if there is a problem its way faster for me to go back to the store, and deal with it there.
Itunes is great, groceries not so.
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
I have no interest in throwing away 10% of my money so the government can buy expensive cheese for fat chicks with ten kids.
So what do the kids get?
Well, that's not really an issue since there's no state income tax in Washington state.
(Although having residents like Bill Gates and Paul Allen is a good reason to consider it.)
Tired of paying idiotically high taxes which support the bread and circuses that keep the mindless proles from thinking too hard about how much this sucks? Try electing somebody other than far-left Democrats for a change!
Yeah, because those Republicans are doing such a good job at keeping taxes down. I mean, my Federal income tax has been plummeting over the past 6 years of Republican rule. Oh, wait, no they haven't...they've gone up...and they've been spending way more than they bring in, which means they're only going to continue going up. Huh. Well, at least they're still for "smaller government", right? Oh, wait, no, that's just what they _say_ they're for. They're actually all for rolling back civil liberties and spending way too much...
ZuluPad, the wiki notepad on crack
The thing that drives me nuts about politicians trying to push an "internet sales tax" for items purchased outside of state, is that most, if not all states ALREADY HAVE ONE. It's called a Use Tax. If you purchase something outside of the state, you're supposed to file a tax payment with your local state. However, most people don't even know it exists, because it's rarely if ever enforced. I hate it when politicians try to create "new" laws that do exactly the same thing as another law that's already on the books but nobody's bothering to enforce.
It's not the party but the people in office. Anyone can hang any sign on themselves they want, if you're a big enough of a moron to go and pull the party line you're going to end up with people who don't really follow the same platform. I'm guessing that if people would put as much effort into who they vote for as to what they're going to eat for dinner the night before election day we may have more people who'd gladly abandon their party politic bullshit and get back to having their vote really mean something.
BTW: When the Democrats were high and mighty they did damage to our civil liberties too, don't act like it didn't happen because that's an insult to anyone who remembers the Clinton administration and it makes you look like a fucking stooge.
Sure, avoid the 6$ on the hundred, however its going to cost ya 30$ to ship it. Plus tax.
1) "Plus tax?" I think you probably didn't mean to tack that on there, in-context.
2) If I pay FedEx $30 to ship something, the money goes to people employed in getting my goods to me, providing me with a service. If I pay $6 to the government, it goes to enforcing the WO(s)D, to killing Iraqis, to free healthcare for 5th-gen welfare mommies and illegal immigrants. I'll choose to pay the $30 every time, given that choice.
3) Many online companies offer free shipping if you spend more than a fairly small amount, like $50. Obviously that cost gets rolled into the price of the product, but since they still need to compete, you pay the "real" $0.98 shipping rather than the massively inflated $29.95 S&H. And 2% costs less than 6%.
The thing is, that you can look at this issue like it's money-grubbing on the part of the politicians, which I'm sure is part of the story. Another important thing to realize is that some kind of national sales tax collection law thing is necessary to protect brick and mortar stores. There's no possible way that a brick and mortar store can compete with an online store if price is all people care about (and apparently, from the number of Slashdotters who say that they buy a lot online, price *is* the only issue to many people). Even if somehow web hosting costs were even in the neighborhood of the costs it takes to run a physical location (they aren't), that sales tax makes the difference in price.
I don't respond to AC's.
The government of Washington State can do whatever encouragement it wants. Without a physical presence in the state, businesses are under no obligation to do squat in terms of reporting to Washington State government what's been sold into Washington State.
There are a number of theories of laws to support *not* sending the information, even if encouraged to do so. Imagine the litigation pain in the butt for private citizens accused of importing goods from say, Nevada, for a measily $100 in plausible return.
It used to be fun to live in Washington State, having no income tax, while shopping totally in Oregon, which had no state sales tax. My friends that lived in Vancouver Washington were overjoyed at their 20% higher net-of-taxes income possibilities.
In reality, Washington needs to come to grips with taxes, just like every other state government. A nice non-Federal treaty that harmonizes things would be perhaps the most useful, as state governments indeed face numerous expenditure mandates. The goofiness of 'encouragement' borders on the hilarious, however. And I promise not to crack Microsoft Millionaire jokes.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
I've got a friend who lived under Soviet rule for most of his life, he also lived in Canada for a while and he swears up and down that when you add up all the taxes you pay at every level, the USA has the highest taxes AND that USians don't get as much for their tax dollars as they do in Canada.
Does this sig remind you of Agatha Christie?
Collecting sales tax for multiple states will probably become a nightmare for small businesses. The way tax laws only increase in complexity, sales tax collection could easily become the most complex business process ever conceived. Is it on food? Is it on pharmaceuticals? Is it on services? ... And for what states, counties, and cities.
My zip code crosses tax jurisdictions so zip codes probably don't have enough specificity. I wonder how many thousands a month a service bureau would charge every business to provide a solution? The privacy implications for mandatory reporting of the exact location, for every purchase, would be unforgivable.
Sales tax collection, on interstate purchases, seems to be inevitable. There probably needs to be a new federal law that severely restricts the tax collection complexity.
Maybe collections should be tied to zip codes with a free rate table that would be available on salestax.gov and only changed on Jan. 1. All collections probably need to go to a single government agency for dispersal so companies don't need to file thousands of forms every month. Post an xml with zip + amount and do a single EFT.
The zip code probably needs to be the primary use location, not the ship to location. There also needs to be codes for export and resale.
Without limits, this could become a disaster.
The state has no income tax so for the most part state residents don't file returns. There is a form(PDF) people fill out if they bought things online or out of state but if you were going to lie on that form you wouldn't fill it out at all. Far fewer than 1% of Washington residents fill out this form.
Back when car tabs on a big RV cost more than $5,000/yr it was quite common to go to a neighboring state to buy the thing, which cost the state a great deal of money in lost sales tax. To recover this lost tax an enforcement program was begun, and several people were prosecuted and fined up to the full value of the vehicle. This raised public awareness of the tax to the point where a series of initiatives was passed to make the registration tabs on all vehicles a flat $30. A series of (IIRC) three initiatives was required because each initiative that was overwhelmingly passed was immediately opposed by the government, the courts, and the attorney general's office. It was turning into a parody of democratic principles. They even did a hatchet job on reputation of the citizen who started and pushed the $30 car tab movement, Tim Eyman. Eventually though they got the idea that the people weren't going to tolerate this tax any more and even though the AG had the initiatives that passed declared unconstitutional the legislature reduced the tax to $30 anyway.
Immediately after this Seattle and some other jurisdictions passed new add-on taxes for vehicles but called them by a new name. At present the taxes on vehicle registrations are still much more reasonable even in the worst case. The struggle on this issue in Washington continues and likely will not end.
There is currently a movement to install a personal income tax in Washington in the name of fairness. It is likely to get a lot of press, but no traction. The only way this would get popular support was if it was promised to lower other taxes also and the people of Washington know that would be a flat lie. Besides, several of the wealthiest business people in the world live in Washington and they can afford to have a state income tax quietly killed.
FTA:
This "mitigation" sounds like a way for some bureaucrat to increase the "fairness" to his friends and family. That's going to end well.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
It used to be fun to live in Washington State, having no income tax, while shopping totally in Oregon, which had no state sales tax. My friends that lived in Vancouver Washington were overjoyed at their 20% higher net-of-taxes income possibilities.
You're saying that it's "fun" to deliberately game the system to avoid paying taxes? So what? That doesn't make it right morally, ethically, or legally. That's certainly not something that I would brag about. Did your friends ever think beyond their own wallet, as to the damage that they were doing to Washington's brick and mortar businesses? Did your friends ever consider if Washington would be such a great state to live in if most of the brick and mortar stores said "Fuck it. We can't compete with these people who just want to avoid paying taxes. We're closing up shop"? What you're describing is really the height of selfish, greedy consumerism run amok.
I don't respond to AC's.
Neither US political party has much to brag about on tax an spend issues. They both are quite greedy.
l e.html
l Title=secrets_in_the_senate&ns=JohnStossel&dt=09/1 3/2006&page=full&comments=true
Take a look at the CATO Institutes 2006 report card on state governors:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa581/reportcard_tab
In case you are too blinded by ideology to even look, I'll post the scores of the governors above and below Washington :
Bob Riley (R) -- Alabama, 47, F
Christine Gregoire (D) -- Washington, 47, F
Mike Huckabee (R) -- Arkansas, 46, F
The full report, with analysis and discussion:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa581.pdf
BTW, John Stossel had an interesting report on 20/20 last night about Senator Tom Coburn, who is fighting federal pork-- and taking on heavy fire from both sides.
He wrote about the story last year:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?Ur
If I pay $6 to the government, it goes to enforcing the WO(s)D, to killing Iraqis...
I think you need to study the difference between states and the federal government a little closer. States aren't funding the war, and your sales tax goes to the state.
The advantage goes to the virtual store. Physical stores have a host of problems that cost a great deal of money that online stores simply do not have. The biggest one that I can think of is:
They close.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
(FYI I am Canadian)
Firstly, the Supreme Court decision mentioned (RTFA) states that businesses don't have to collect taxes for a state unless they have a presence (nexus) in that state. Secondly, what state is going to start collecting taxes and remitting them to another state - they have no obligation to do this (due to the same 1992 SC ruling I believe) - it would only work with a reciprocal agreement (hence the consortium of 21 states I guess).
But, it only takes a few 'rogue' states to spoil it. If you had a choice of opening up an internet business in Vermont, for example - which, for the sake of argument, subscribes to the consortium and collects out-of-state taxes, or one in New Hampshire which for the sake of argument doesn't, where would you go? In New Hampshire your product would cost less to consumers, you would sell more, and you would only have to remit taxes to one state.
States must lose business (therefore employment, therefore taxes) if they join this scheme - unless they all do the same, but it will always be in some state's interest to opt out.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
about taxation in an ideal world. Whether you buy from a local vendor or from an internet vendor isn't one of them.
They are:
(1) How much you are taxed
(2) How fairly you are taxed
(3) How complex it is to comply with the tax.
How much you are taxed, on average, depends on how much your elected officials spend. Taxing Internet sales doesn't raise your taxation levels on average.
Clearly, not taxing Internet sales is simpler than taxing them for everyone.
The real question is fairness.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
So what are they going to do about people who live in the southernmost portions of Washington, and who hop across a bridge to Oregon cities like Portland, where there's no sales tax? Are they going to put a toll on the bridges that only applies to Washingtonians who may have spent money in Stumptown?
The CB App. What's your 20?
Washington State's brick-and-mortar businesses ought to ask the Washington State legislature to get real, and consider the fact that the time is past to use sales tax as a 50% contributor to the budget. Sales are too mercurial to do this.
In terms of morality, there is no questions that governments need to be financed. But it's fascist to think that we're under an obligation to conserve our income. Much work needs to be done to harmonize tax infrastructure. More work needs to be done to prohibit governments giving tax breaks as economic development incentive. We ought to pay the same rates, and the rates need to be a flat percentage, with harmonized methods of determining actual cost of goods and expenses. Currently, the 21" thick volumes of the United States Tax Code is a lesson in legislative bribery and inequity. Where's the morality in that???
I don't feel for Washington's businesses. I'm in business myself. Things are tough all over. Outrageous sales tax laws need to be fought. Show me the businesses in Washington that are closing up. The last time I traveled through Washington State, things looked great. People were buying like crazy. And the hotel I stayed at nicked me for 21% in taxes that were absolutely captive. I bought gasoline there. Taxed. The rental car was taxed, although I can't really determine what the percentage was; I'll guess ~20% not counting dodgy 'recovery fees'.
Tax haven states are tough to compete with. That's why harmonization is a useful thing. Is what I describe selfish, greedy, consumerism? Tell me, how many legal tax deductions did you take last year. What??? You took some????
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
I'm not sure I know which I'd like to see you rated with more... off-topic, or troll.
For a physical sale in Washington state, sales tax makes sense--visitors and tourists use the roads, infrastructure and government services too. Sales tax for Internet purchases outside of Washington state does not make sense. Should the volume of online sales increase to the point that sales tax revenues start plummeting rapidly I'm pretty sure this would be offset by increases in property and business-related taxes when UPS, FedEx, etc. start putting in processing facilities like mad to handle the massive shipping volume such a huge change would require.
According to prostoalex, "Washington state ... relies on state sales tax for 53.1% of its revenues."
.531*.523 == 27.7% of the revenue for the state. You'll note also that the state's revenue stream for licenses and fees (another word for tax) is $10b that isn't included in that $33b mentioned earlier, and those funds are collected within Washington too. Source for all info in paragraph (pdf)
That's incorrect, off by half. State taxes provide $33b of the state's $63b budget -- 52.3%. But sales tax makes up 53.1% of the state's portion of the revenue, not 53.1% of the revenue. In fact, it makes up
I'm no fan of the sales tax due to it's regressive nature, but I did want to correct the incorrect information in the summary.
Support a few technologists in Washington.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, the current tax structure is a mess all over, whether it's at the local, state, or federal level. It's a nightmare to negotiate, and it's lopsided in more ways than anybody could hope to enumerate. I'm talking about morality on a local level.
Local stores MUST collect and pay sales tax. If they don't then the owners, quite literally, go to jail. There's no room for negotiation there.
The problem is when people choose not to buy locally in order to skirt sales tax. When people do that, they're ignoring all of the other benefits that local stores provide (instant access to whatever they want, the ability to see and use the product before they buy, before and after sales support, etc.) in order to shave a few nickels. Those people are penalizing local merchants for a system that they (the local merchants) cannot change. They're also making a conscious effort not to support their community. They're choosing NOT to support their neighbors. They're choosing NOT to support their local governments. People really need to think just a tiny bit beyond their own wallets, and consider if they'd like living in a community with no local retail businesses, since that is the logical result of their actions.
I don't respond to AC's.
Tax evasion is illegal - it is the crime of trying to avoid taxes by illegal means. Tax avoidance is what you're talking about, and is what every citizen should be doing. The government does not deserve more money than is required by law: why give them more? See the wikipedia article on tax evasion and avoidance for more information.
Brought to you by the numbers π, e, and 0x1B.
You believe they cannot change this inequitable system, and are therefore doomed. If you also believe in democracy, this might not be so. Ever heard of Chambers of Commerce? Small Business Associations? Testifying in legislative sessions?
Things like the Walmart wave came, and any number of small businesses had to either adapt or perish. Does Walmart have an unfair advantage? Perhaps, perhaps they're like Dell and found a suitable business model that's very difficult to battle-- and certianly not impossible. Other businesses have adapted and thrived, both competitors to Walmart and Dell.
What's not going to happen is consumers doing a lot of soul-searching, and 'remembering the guy in our community' sorts of guilt trips when making purchases. It's horrible, but money is a strange thing, we need it and are never paid enough. Does the guy in the community offer value or services that justify his/her existence? Heard of unbelievably bad warranty and service problems for out-of-state purchasers? People take a risk and sometimes pay awful prices when things go bad or awry. There is value in local buying. People know this. They take a risk buing online/out-of-state.
Just opening a store, hanging out a shingle, doesn't provide value. It's service of a product that sells the product and justifies existence. Convenience and other components also add to value. If they didn't then every 7-11 and Circle K would go out of business, because they don't exist because of their low prices.
Making this a buying guilt trip for the home-boy-stores doesn't quite get traction. It's not as easy as that. With the Friedman 'Flat Earth' concept comes internationalism, and borderless transactions. Most of your stuff comes from China, and your food from Mexico, Canada, and Peru. Your PC came from China, too. These business ecologies tell a big story about value propositions and why we buy things the way that we do. Guilt trips aren't one of them, or if they are, they don't last long. Guilt is a poor motivator.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Reread your economics book. No good has intrinsic value. A good is only valuable if someone else desires it, and only to the degree they desire it. Gold has no special magical property that gives it an intrinsic value.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Anti-capitalist, anti-US post based on 'hearsay' by a 'friend'! Mod parent up!!
I dont buy from CA online anymore because of their tax. It would be a shame for Washington to make the same mistake. All it will do is drive buisness out of the state.
Did your friends ever think beyond their own wallet, as to the damage that they were doing to Washington's brick and mortar businesses? Did your friends ever consider if Washington would be such a great state to live in if most of the brick and mortar stores said "Fuck it. We can't compete with these people who just want to avoid paying taxes. We're closing up shop"? There is a flipside to that too: some of us Portlanders will cross the river to buy cars because the auto dealers like to say "Cars sell for less in Vancouver." This is because we can buy a large amount of groceries or an automobile, show our Oregon driver's licenses, sign our name on a form, and have the sales tax taken off. It's not perfect, but there is some balance there. I haven't done that often myself--more like when I happened to be up there and grabbing stuff before the trip back home. The exception would be the annual pilgrimage around the 4th of July because of the better fireworks. ;-)
"The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis
As far as I can recall the federal government regulates this and has shot it down repeatedly. It will be challenged and shot down again. There's no sales tax for interstate purchases for a reason. This is a usurpation of those reasons.
There's little they can do to enforce it as purchases from out of state are not trackable. Also it puts a burden on businesses with licenses to set up with every possible company they do business with in line to verify their business license.
It will also turn many companies away from doing business with the state businesses.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
I hated being stationed in WA. Im sure there are exceptions but here is the general rule.
Active duty military personel pay state income taxes to their "home of record" state regardless or where in the world they are stationed. Most states will give breaks to active duty military members who are stationed outside of their home of record state, PA is one of them. Meaning... PA is my "home of record" but I am stationed and live in WA. I pay PA state tax and not WA state tax but PA waives the state tax because I am not physically in PA. Bottom line. I pay no state tax. I bet you can see where this is going.
Being active duty in WA (or any state with high sales tax) is a disadvantage. I have to pay the WA sales tax regardless and there is not exemption, when I lived there, I think it was 8%. I assume there are states that do not waive the state tax for active duty members. These people would have to pay the high WA sales tax, and pay their home of record income tax.
There are weird twists be being active duty in another state, some do not charge sales tax on new vehicles or have max limits for big ticket items, some states only charge a plate fee when registering you vehicle in that state and the vehicle property tax is waived.
Getting off topic here.
Things get even more tricky just after getting out of the military. I had just rented a place in VA and was in PA visting my family, had an expired PA drivers license (which is automatically extended while on active duty and 60 days after active duty so it was not really expired even though the expired date was 8 years prior), had active Hawaii plates on my car, an active Hawaii inspection sticker (on the back bumper and does not look like an inspection sticker), a really old expired SC inspection sticker on my windshield that I never bothered to remove, a Virginia address and PA insurance. I was stopped by police twice and both times it took a lot of explaining and either they fully understood I was legal because of my transient situation and just got out of the military or they just got confused and let me go anyway.
Even more off topic.
PA does not or at least never did in the past, except tickets from other states for entry into your driving record. You could have 20 tickets in 20 other states and your PA driving record will show no violations and zero points.
United States Constitution trumps Washington State law.
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
Section 9.
"No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."
There is court precedence to back it up, too.
http://tinyurl.com/2pyvoh
should be funded by the means necassary to get the package to the door (i.e. the commerce that occurs in the state)
UPS (who delievers in the state) pays what should keep up the roads required to deliver through state fuel taxes.
the purchaser (recipient) pays property taxes and income taxes for the state services (police, courts)
if the state is unable to make their economic model work- it needs to evolve... but it should be a self-contained financial entity..
Now.. if a state decides to charge a higher gas tax, UPS will charge more-- and the consumer pays through higher shipping expenses, and VOILA, local brick and mortar merchants have a level playing field
splain this one.. if I buy a car in deleware- then why should pennsylvania collect sales tax on the entire sale.
registration? sure- sales tax? why....
taxes should be fair to the citizen and the state, and if one state can make something more attractive! and work for that state, than another state
should endeavour to make it work for them- or have their system fall by the wayside... this approach would encourage states to compete taxwise economically.
be stodgy- bleed revenues... be enlightened, benefit...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I'm not suggesting that people should feel "guilty" about not shopping locally. Not at all. That doesn't accomplish anything. I'm suggesting that people should *think* about how they spend their money. I'm suggesting that if this trend continues, we'll all wake up one day living in a society that I can't imagine a lot of people actually liking. But then again, we have insane suburban big-box sprawl, and people seem to love that. Maybe I'm just out of touch with "regular" people.
I don't respond to AC's.
From the summary:
'Washington state does not collect personal income tax'
or also from the summary:
'Looks like Washington-staters won't be able to fib on their tax returns about internet purchases, starting in 2008.'
What's anti-capitalist about being against high taxes? (mostly, capitalists ARE against high - or at all - taxes)
The US is pretty messed up *nowadays*, and that's what's giving capitalism a bad name. People used to be free, there used to be free competition, and even workers used to be able to acquire some wealth. Today all of that is just history.
Note that capitalism isn't incompatible with some level of social security, in which the USA is quite lacking. But being social also doesn't mean that you have to strangle competition, free trade, or even be against capitalism.
Well, I have a friend who lived under Soviet rule for most of his life, he also lived in Canada for a while and he swears up and down that when you add up all the taxes you pay at every level, the USA has the lowest taxes AND that USians get more for their tax dollars than they do in Canada.
See, we can all play the anecdotal game! I don't have hard facts, but I do have a friend!
How the hell did this comment get modded up?!?
Throw in a few partisan attacks, use some pejoratives, go back to X is worthless. Your points are worthless on balance.
What about, say, food (in general)? Is food not intrinsically valuable to humans? Whether or not you desire to eat, you must eat to continue living. Therefore food does have intrinsic value to all humans wishing to continue living.
Utah, which had joined the so-called "Streamlined Sales Tax Project" (ha!), was going to start collecting sales tax based on where an item was delivered even in-state rather than where it was sent from, but first repeatedly delayed and later scuttled plans to do so, along with, I believe, some other aspects of the Project. Even for in-state purchases, the complexity of tracking the rates for and reporting sales to so many jurisdictions was too great a burden on businesses.
The only way I can imagine something like this not being too burdensome is for the participating states to agree on a single tax rate that applies to ALL out-of-state sales between participating states.
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The Big Boxers have their place.
In my 'hood' there are a lot of little computer stores. I can buy on eBay or at a hundred sites in a heartbeat and beat the hell out of their prices. But the little guys have an advantage: convenience. I drive over, pickup my bizarre cable, maybe a drive, some other tech junque, and leave.
I hit the big box places and cherry pick their loss leaders. Once in a very rare while, I might make a purchase there of a major item, but only after extensive homework--> and only because their service dept will be equipped to deal with failures. I *might* buy a service policy if it's in my favor-- and most are not.
We agree: people should think about it. Tempus pecunia est-- and I'm often time-squeezed and have to resort to expedient purchases. Others in my family HATE shopping, or HATE crowds, or have other problems with the "retail experience" and would rather listen to Eddy Arnold doing Sinatra than go into a sprawl-mall or a big box joint. I don't blame them.
The important thing to do is to lift away from using your own rationale to become sensitive to why others shop the way that they do, and their motivations. I thought everybody had the same reasons as I when I was young, and low-and-behold, I wasn't listening. Value propositions are key and are the primary motivator; convenience often being at the top of those lists in our time-pressured society. Convenience to many == value and motivation to buy. I succumb to it sometimes, too. Other times, I try and buy by my wits and personal philosophies. It works for me, and will not be the same for others. My values are different.... along the lines of Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Others will do things for valued reasons. No one does it randomly (ok, there must be exceptions). One of the motivations: price, in lieu of other obvious (and sometimes even hidden) considerations.
The tax mess that Washington State is in portends a future solution, but legislatures seem to need to keep themselves in business by never finishing issues or building practical infrastructure. It's as though self-perpetuation of power mandates constantly re-hashing issues that should have been finished decades ago. Certainly flexibility to meet modern demands is important, but slicing and dicing the same junk and not facing the realities of ongoing financing needs is prima facie cowardice.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
When I was working retail, all a customer had to do was show an out-of-state ID, and their purchase would be sales tax exempt.
I would assume this wouldn't apply to the newer Hotel/Rental car taxes tho.
What about states that don't join the project? Will all the catalog and internet sales operations move there?
Have gnu, will travel.
Is the man who sweeps the warehouse in the MidWest not my Brother also? Is the UPS driver not my neighbor? Is there a way I can choose products where I know all the people involved got a living wage, and not break the benefit of the commerce by making it impossible for me to afford? Does the clerk at your local store make more than the ones at mine? Mine are poor. Do your neigbors not invest their retirement funds in large companies that make these transactions? Is it not a benefit to encourage businesses to compete in the field of supply chain efficiency?
My understanding of hard drives far exceeds the level of maintenance a reasonable person would consider worthwhile. If you require guidance in this area, I can appreciate your willingness to pay a premium for it.
And this "hard drive" you speak of... is it not made in Asia by robots and packaged by enslaved children? When you're done with it, will you ship this toxic component to your local landfill or will you "recycle" it by having it shipped back to asia, where it will be dismantled and strewn across farmers fields for the lead to leach into the groundwater?
I don't see the karma here.
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Looks like Washington-staters won't be able to fib on their tax returns about internet purchases, starting in 2008.
We don't have to file (state) tax. It says so in the article quoted about 2 sentences above this moronic comment: Washington State has no income tax.
So now editors don't even read the blurbs. Or did they before?
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Wrong. Gold conducts electricity marvelously well and protects satellites from radiation damage better than other metals. Why do you think connectors in electronics are gold plated and satellites are wrapped in gold foil?
In Washington State the sale of packaged liquor is a state monopoly, with certain rare exceptions. All profits on these sales go directly to the state. For the most part, the liquor stores sell liquor only (and state-run lottery products) and so a mixed drink requires multiple stores to assemble. In almost all cases the selection available is not as broad as you would find in any other state, and pricing is high. Liquor stores are closed on Sunday, and operating hours on days they are open are not what you would see in another state.
The liquor profits are a form of tax, so this may be marginally on topic.
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1992 1993 2001 2002 2003-2006
-2000
10.0% 10%
15% 15.0% 15.0% 15.0% 15%
28% 28.0% 27.5% 27.0% 25%
31% 31.0% 30.5% 30.0% 28%
36.0% 35.5% 35.0% 33%
39.6% 39.1% 38.6% 35%
I don't know where you got your mathematics degree from, but for me:
2000 -> 2006
15% -> 10%
28% -> 25%
31% -> 28%
36% -> 33%
39.6% -> 35%
Looks like they've gone up doesn't quite fit the numbers.
(Yes, the tax brackets get wider, but they do that every year.)
I'll be happy to pay your "out-of-state sales tax" if you'll provide me with the ability to vote in your elections. [Palpatine] Awlll of them. [/Palpatine]
I expect representation for the taxation.
If humans no longer wished to live, the food would have no value. Meaning - humans desire food because it's required for their survival. If they suddenly stopped caring about life, they would not desire food and food would be worthless.
I anxiously await the first tax bill Washington submits to Boeing.
Have gnu, will travel.
Yes, the best way of lowering taxes is to vote for someone who openly states that they want more taxes instead of one who wants less but is forced into raising them by circumstances.
I'm sooooo glad there's Democrats to defend civil liberties such as the right to bear arms!
IANAL, but different regions in the US have specialized in different manufacturing/service industries. For example wines are made primarily in California (although NY, Oregon, and others do make some). A state is free to establish a tax/duty on wines. That would only hurt the producing state. There is no direct duty laid out on specifically californian exported wines, but wines in general. In addition a state is free to make the distinction between imported and domestic wines, and layout a tax plan accordingly.
The limitless resources of the State were used to vilify Mr. Eyman, with the tacit participation of Seattle's notoriously liberal media. It was only when the legislature was faced with the prospect of growing "boot the rascals out" campaign that they reversed course on this tax and escaped being evicted from the statehouse by the narrowest margin ever.
It was too late to rescue what was widely held and by the government admitted to be one of the most regressive taxes in the country. It was not too late to make an object lesson of this citizen activist. Mr. Eyman suffered considerable risk in changing the system -- every aspect of his operation and his life were examined with the finest scrutiny in many attempts to have him stripped of all his worldly goods, imprisoned, and branded a criminal for life.
The entire experience illustrates the tyrrany of democracy: given enough time, any government becomes a threat to liberty.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Looks like Washington-staters won't be able to fib on their tax returns about internet purchases, starting in 2008.
Dude... we don't do tax returns.
I don't know if "forced [...] by circumstances" does fit so well here as they caused the circumstances themselves.
You've confused value and price.
The economic value of something is the cost of the goods and services that go into the good/service.
The price of something is what both buyer and seller agree to exchange the item.
The fact that it has a use does not mean it has value. You need to reread your economics textbook too.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Any state may establish duties on wine, but that does not harm anyone in California. The taxes and duties are charged to the consumers, not the the suppliers, and if they are charged categorically, then it does not change the relative cost of California wines over any others. The distinction may be drawn between imported and domestic wines because one involves international agreements, which further may be controlled by federal requirements. That is not equivalent to making a distinction between Oregon and California wines. If you are the Oregon assembly, however, and you want to tax all wines imported from out of state (in order to make your own wines more competitive), you could do that, but you'd never get away with it.
If Kansas decided to start charging a special tax on books, that tax could be collected from anywhere in Kansas that sold books. It could not be collected from Amazon by the Kansas government. Kansas has no authority outside its own borders. For this reason, you cannot import wine into Indiana (you may buy imported wine at galleries and liquor stores, but you can't join any mail-order wine clubs). This is because they want to control revenue--and the only way to control things imported from out of state at the consumer level is to ban them.
Want to increase sales tax revenue, and total revenue? Abolish your income tax. Then exclude food and clothing from sales tax and raise it a few percent.
"Problem" solved.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Care to quote me the law that says that? Far as I know, the IRS et al treat any transaction as a "cash" transaction, and exempt or apply those taxes based on the good being sold or the purchaser, not the method of payment.
Article I, Section 9:
"No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state."
Oregon has no sales tax, and it's -what?- about 90 miles away?
Imagine if Amazon threatened to move, and take all those jobs with them. I'll bet a lot of people in WA wouldn't be too happy.
I have mixed feelings. On one hand having to pay taxes on expensive camera/lenses bought online is gonna suck big time. But I have to admit it will drive me to make a lot of those purchases locally at b&m stores since shipping + tax will kill any savings online in a lot of cases.
Washington not having state income tax hurts it more than helps it IMO. Look up what other states don't have them. I guess we can compare ourselves to Wyoming, South Dakota and Florida. Not exactly the states that come to mind when thinking of shining beacons of capitalism. Our publics schools also rank 42nd out of 50 due to no $$$. It's one of the contributing factors to why there are so many millionaires in the east of Lake Washington area. Save mucho dinero and send the kids to private schools. And now we are complaining we have no money. They don't get it.
if you think about it, the $10 will come back to you. UPS gets $10 and keeps it as profit, etc. The gov't will use the $10 to a) Fund the War of Terror or b) Pave interstates or something like that.
The man saved his neighbors billions of dollars in egregiously unfair taxes, in the face of great personal peril. That he received a pittance for doing so to defray a small part of the personal loss it cost him when the state dragged the campaign into a third revisiting of the people's will is not a significant part of the story. That it was spun into some huge ethical lapse worthy of Watergate style coverage was indeed a hatchet job. That the vast resources of the State and the Press were brought to bear in a fruitless attempt to find some way to silence him and destroy his just cause is a significant part of this story because it reveals the dangers he faced bravely.
Tim Eyman is a hero -- the quality of citizen you could never hope to be, Mr. Anonymous Coward.
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He's not a saint, but he got the job done and he didn't break the law. In a country where you can serve on the DC city council while in prison for buying crack cocaine from a prostitute on national TV, run for mayor of DC shortly therafter, and win, he's a cut above the common politician. I'll take him for governor over the idiot that wants to waste billions of taxpayer dollars building a freeway in a tunnel in loamy soil on a waterfront that's going to be under water itself in fifty years, any day. I'll agree with the other poster -- he likes attention. He's more Ralph Nader than Thomas Jefferson, but we're lucky to have him.
More was made of his pathetic salary than should have been, and that was a hatchet job. It was nothing less than an attempt to derail the tax revolt by assailing the character of the primary figure. It failed in that, but your post proves it succeeded in reducing his effectiveness moving forward. That's a shame.
I want to know: Where is your disgust for the Attorney General that argued before the state supreme court in favor of the citizen's constitutional right to be unfairly taxed against his will, not once but three times running? Amnesia? Apathy?
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What makes this so funny is that I've been charged sales tax for every internet purchase I've made for more than a year now. Everything from hardware at Egghead...er...NewEgg, to the specialty rims & wheels shop in Florida.
This is just more Wag The Dog politics from our wonderful gov't.
Intrinsic value is the value an object has, despite what buyers percieve of it. For example, I could make a chair out of cast iron. Maybe no one would want to use it as a chair as it's big/ugly/heavy/uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's worthless. The chair would still have value because the material I made it out of has value. The value of the metal in the chair is the intrinsic value of the chair, and the chair will always have that much value (and possibly more if people considered it valuable as a chair). Now, you could get side tracked, and start talking about the value of scrap iron, but that would have nothing to do with the value of my chair as a chair.
No. Gold isn't cash. Unless you've found a way to print it.
I will have a sig when the market demands it.