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John McCain's MySpace Page "Pranked"

Several readers let us know about a little problem with presidential hopeful John McCain's MySpace page. Looks as though some staffer didn't read the fine print of the "credit" clause when selecting a template for the page. The template author and CEO of Newsvine, Mike Davidson, noticed this and didn't care too much. But the McCain page was pulling an image from Davidson's site, costing him bandwidth every time someone visited the candidate's MySpace page. So Davidson changed the image in question to read: "Today I announce that I have reversed my position and come out in full support of gay marriage... particularly marriage between two passionate females." Here is Davidson's account of the "immaculate hack".

503 comments

  1. LoL by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    That should make the next list of great hacks.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:LoL by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      Not really. Changing hotlinked images so that, say, Goatse comes up instead is a time-honored tradition - perhaps even enough to be considered passé.

    2. Re:LoL by Coraon · · Score: 1

      and here I would have just rediredted to tubgirl...this is much better

      --
      -Ours is the wisdom of Solomon, the magic of Merlyn, the fall of Icaris.
    3. Re:LoL by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 1

      I had a MySpace luser hot-linking one of my photos, so I changed it to Tub Girl. His visitors just thought it was funny. It took Lemon Party to get him to pull it.

  2. +1 Funny. by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1
    Well done to the prankster - although (from tfa):

    Abortion? The Iraq War? Probably too heavy to joke about. Gay marriage seemed like a more of a non-lethal subject to center the prank around.
    No nonononono! If you're going to prank, prank the hard issues :-)
    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    1. Re:+1 Funny. by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you're going to prank, prank the hard issues :-) I fully agree. He should have said: Today I announce that I have reversed my position and come out in full support of gay marriage... particularly marriage between two hod studs with hard cocks.

    2. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you're going to prank, prank the hard issues

      "Today I announce that I have reversed my position, (placing my ass in front of me) and come out in full support of abortions... particularly abortions resulting from the union of Marines & Iraqi comfort women"

    3. Re:+1 Funny. by danamania · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No nonononono! If you're going to prank, prank the hard issues :-)

      Since most people either don't respond, respond with abuse, or tell me I can't dictate to them what to do with their web page, I gave up emailing them to ask nicely if they could host a pic of mine somewhere else if they wanted to use it. Now I just replace it like Mike did with something embarrassing to the particular site owner who's hotlinking to my images, or for myspace - more often than not I replace the image with http://www.danamania.com/temp/dontloadthis.jpg - I don't know the source of the image, but it's a 964 byte .jpg header of a 10,000 by 10,000 pixel image. It tends to completely ruin formatting on the page it's embedded into so the whole page is unusable, and it's tiny enough not to impact on my bandwidth.

      It used to crash X11, make IE perform illegal instructions or freeze, and make OS X browsers beachball - but alas, in the years since I came across that file software has become more capable in handling extreme sized images :)

    4. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know the source of the image, but it's a 964 byte .jpg header of a 10,000 by 10,000 pixel image.

      I bow at their feet.

    5. Re:+1 Funny. by Megane · · Score: 1

      Mozilla says it's 20,000 by 20,000. And refuses to display it because "it contains errors". I would expect Firefox to do the same thing.

      Of course all that really matters is what aIEeee! does with it.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    6. Re:+1 Funny. by ChairmanMeow · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've just found (due to absentmindedly clicking the link without reading the description) that in Firefox on OS X, it causes both the browser and the OS X interface to become unresponsive. I ended up having to reboot the computer to get it back to working order.

      --
    7. Re:+1 Funny. by Fred_A · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It killed Firefox 2.0.0.2 (Ubuntu Edgy version) which has admittedly been oddly brittle so far.

      Should be part of the standard display testing suite IMO :)

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    8. Re:+1 Funny. by Thundersnatch · · Score: 1

      Really? It just shows up as a blank image in IE7 on XPsp2. Imagine that... a MS product that's more stable than OSX.

    9. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's still fairly lethal to Konqueror too. Although I did manage to get X to respond to ctrl+alt+esc and kill the process, but not after it ground my computer to a complete halt. Nice.

    10. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Thanks ass hole. Why would you post a link to a source you know would cause some X11 systems to freeze up. You didn't even mention it was a possibility in your comment until after the link was presented. Hopefully someone mods you into oblivion.

    11. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You just made my day. Fools and their computers.

      I think you learned a good lesson today grasshoppa.

    12. Re:+1 Funny. by karnal · · Score: 1

      Hopefully you're not browsing slashdot on business critical or production systems, otherwise I'd call you nasty names.

      --
      Karnal
    13. Re:+1 Funny. by emurphy42 · · Score: 1

      Mozilla says it's 20,000 by 20,000. And refuses to display it because "it contains errors". I would expect Firefox to do the same thing.
      Confirmed on Firefox 2.0.0.3
    14. Re:+1 Funny. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      This page seems to be able to freeze Opera 9.10 and Firefox 1.5.0.9 on XP SP2.

      http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/PNG

      It's contains a 379KB 10000 x 10000 x 32bit PNG file, so it will end up being 400,000,000 bytes when it decompresses into a bitmap.

      IE 6.0 seems to handle it quite well, guess all those Windows Updates have paid off.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    15. Re:+1 Funny. by CustomDesigned · · Score: 1

      Firefox-2.0.0.3 on FC4 says "image cannot be displayed because it contains errors". It does so instantly (on my 1.2Ghz Celeron with 384M).

    16. Re:+1 Funny. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 0, Troll

      Hey arsehole! You need to learn not to click links when there's a warning in the same post!

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    17. Re:+1 Funny. by bberens · · Score: 0, Troll

      Dude, there's secret hidden pr0n in the linux kernel. All you have to do is type "sudo rm -rf /*" from the command prompt. I've heard people get mixed results with it, so you'll just have to try it out for yourself.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    18. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Works fine in IE7 on Windows Media Centre, even lets me zoom in and out. OH NOES! I run Windows on my home PC. It's not because I'm a fanboi, it's because I'm a lazy bastard.

    19. Re:+1 Funny. by CthulhuDreamer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      NASA has an 18.4MB 18000 x 18000 jpeg of the Orion nebula. We use it to stress-test our CAD systems at work.

      http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Orion_Nebu la_-_Hubble_2006_mosaic_18000.jpg

    20. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only it behaved this gracefully for me. Using FC6 and Firefox 2.0.0.3 from rawhide (updated just now), firefox begins chewing up memory until the OOM killer takes it out.

    21. Re:+1 Funny. by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Opera 9.10 shows a white 20,000 x 20,000 image. No errors.

    22. Re:+1 Funny. by pruneau · · Score: 1
      Well, since we are in the official browser bug report thread(tm).

      System: w2k sp4

      • Seamonkey 1.11 goes into memory allocation hell, killed it after 5 mins at 100% cpu (not the most stable one: a cpu pig usually anyway)
      • Firefox 2.0.0.3 : The image "dontloadthis.jpg" cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.
      • IE 6.0.2800.1106C0 : display a big empty image, and uses a !@#!@$ lot of memory too.
      Pick your poison, Nuff said.
      --
      [Pruneau /\o^O/\ warranty void if this .sig is removed]
    23. Re:+1 Funny. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      That's not true for Firefox 2.0.0.2 on OS X... on my iMac it just says "this image cannot be displayed because it contains errors."

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    24. Re:+1 Funny. by profplump · · Score: 3, Informative

      Took about 25 seconds to load in Safari on my system, tying up Safari pretty good in the process. But things were fine once it was done and other programs continued to respond normally throughout. And they said I'd never use dual processors -- apparently they didn't know my browsing habits.

    25. Re:+1 Funny. by Kamots · · Score: 1

      Same with Opera 9.02

      Wish I still had older versions of Opera around to check with.

    26. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks ass hole. Why would you post a link to a source you know would cause some X11 systems to freeze up. You didn't even mention it was a possibility in your comment until after the link was presented.

      Oh the name of a file like "dontloadthis" doesn't tell you not to load it?

      Would you like a warning that needles are sharp, water is wet, and coffee is hot to go with your ignorance?

    27. Re:+1 Funny. by compro01 · · Score: 1

      i remember some guy throwing around a 1,000,000x1,000,000 (presumablely bugged, as if my numbers are right (no promises at this hour), that would be a 27TB image) as that would be image some time ago. caused BSODs on every windows system i tried it on. never got around to seeing what would happen on my linux box as it got taken down.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    28. Re:+1 Funny. by dan+dan+the+dna+man · · Score: 1

      Unresponsive for a couple of minutes whilst it loads and subsequently displays.

      And that's on my G4 Powerbook with 1Gb of RAM. My system is fine.. nice troll!

      --
      I don't read your sig, why do you read mine?
    29. Re:+1 Funny. by Hatta · · Score: 1


      Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.2) Gecko/20070219 Firefox/2.0.0.2

      That version gives me the same message.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    30. Re:+1 Funny. by UtucXul · · Score: 1
      I'm impressed. Even imagemagick seems to have trouble with that image. identify just sits there using around 40% of my cpu (but basically no memory).

      john@ganon ~ $ time identify dontloadthis.jpg
      dontloadthis.jpg JPEG 20000x20000 20000x20000+0+0 DirectClass 8-bit 964b 39.920u 2:02
      identify: Corrupt JPEG data: premature end of data segment `dontloadthis.jpg'.
      identify: Corrupt JPEG data: bad Huffman code `dontloadthis.jpg'.


      real 2m11.653s
      user 0m23.433s
      sys 0m17.189s
      Two minutes is an extremely long time for something that doesn't even try to display the image. Usually identify is extremely fast, even for gigantic images.
    31. Re:+1 Funny. by raddan · · Score: 1

      I can confirm that your image completely freezes a MacOS X 10.4.8 machine running Camino (Version 2006061318 (1.0.2)). Ow.

    32. Re:+1 Funny. by deadlocked · · Score: 1

      loaded instantly without any issues in Opera :-)

    33. Re:+1 Funny. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, but that's no good. The idea is to replace a file that is being leeched with one which causes all manner of ruckus but is relatively compact. If the replacement file is 18MB, you wouldn't be able to afford the bandwidth costs. Most ISPs either disable the site or move it to a low power web server if it uses too much bandwidth too.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    34. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Doesn't work in Lynx.

    35. Re:+1 Funny. by springbox · · Score: 3, Informative

      Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Windows says there's an error with the image and won't display it

    36. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh. I'm running Firefox on OS X (Tiger) and after a few moments of spinning beachball it displayed an empty page with the title of the link, said the jpeg was 20000 x 20000 pixels, and that it was displaying it at 4%.

      I've never found the Finder's Force Quit to be inaccessible, and it has been able to deal with any freezes other software has thrown at it (usually MS Word or Excel).

    37. Re:+1 Funny. by Chrisje · · Score: 1

      FireFox 2.0.0.3 on Win2003 SP2 as a VM on top of XP Pro SP2 didn't flinch. :-D Maybe windows is better equipped to handle stuff like this after all.

    38. Re:+1 Funny. by krakass · · Score: 2, Funny

      I really, really want to click that link. But something is telling me not to.

    39. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG! Proof of Windows superiority! :D It actually didn't crash!

    40. Re:+1 Funny. by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Ouch! I was running it in Xvnc and the session completely froze - and ssh was very unresponsive.

      killall -9 konqueror didn't help
      killall -9 kio_http didn't help
      killall -9 Xvnc didn't help
      killing xdm (and X on a DIFFERENT DISPLAY) did the trick.

      Not sure how konqueror managed to bork X11 on a different display, although it did have access to it via xauth.

      That was rather painful. I'm just happy I got the system back up without having to call somebody to hit the reset button...

    41. Re:+1 Funny. by chewy_2000 · · Score: 1

      Crashed Firefox 2.0.0.3 on my 10.4.9 Macbook. Hung but managed to force-quit from Finder. Also caused my page file to chew up my remaining startup disk space. Saved for future use ;)

    42. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It loads without any problems at all in OmniWeb on Mac OS X 10.4.9.

    43. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems to load just fine in Opera. :)

    44. Re:+1 Funny. by sootman · · Score: 1

      Pretty clever to do that with just the header. Photoshop lets you create images up to 300,000x300,000 pixels, but even a 30,000x30,000px image saved as lowest-possible quality JPEG is 9MB.

      BTW, there's a typo on your burger page--'each' instead of 'eat.'

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    45. Re:+1 Funny. by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      How about a "Chicks will rip out your heart, throw it into the furnace (with your action figure collection) and act like they don't know you two days later on WoW, but since they have breasts, it's all cool." warning?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    46. Re:+1 Funny. by toadlife · · Score: 1

      Try these...

      http://ha.ckers.org/imagecrash.html (may be fixed by now, but it BSOD'd Windows for a long time)

      http://ha.ckers.org/weird/popup.html (pop-up bomb that will suck up all of your memory. I actually was able to recvoer from this using the task manager, but it was not easy.)

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    47. Re:+1 Funny. by krbvroc1 · · Score: 1

      Confirmed on Firefox 2.0.0.3

      Despite your 'homelinux.net', are you running this on Windows? It crashes on 2.0.0.3 on Linux for me.

    48. Re:+1 Funny. by demonbug · · Score: 1

      The imagecrash one doens't really do anything (firefox 2.0.0.3 under XP) - just brings up a blank screen (if you right click and select "view image" then it shows a photo of a stream in a forest).

      The pop-up bomb is a bit annoying, though it didn't manage to use up all my memory - Thunderbird started giving off all sorts of errors and wouldn't open any more mail windows after ~940 megs was used up (out of 2 gigs). Still a pain in the ass, though.

    49. Re:+1 Funny. by Wingnut64 · · Score: 4, Funny

      After using Mozillia and Firefox for many a year, the habit of opening links in new tabs as I'm still reading the article is quite ingrained into me. It was with much dismay that I read your last paragraph, noticed that my mouse stopped working and my harddrive activity light was solid. Firefox died a horrible death, and did so again 3 minutes later as I reflected upon the foolishness of choosing 'Restore last session'. 5 minutes later, I was berating myself for saving the file into a directory that nautalis had open on my desktop, forgetting that it creates thumbnails based on file type, not extension.

      I'm now posting this from another computer.

      # chmod 000 pandora.jpg

      --
      echo 'Header append X-HD-DVD "0x09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0"' >> /etc/apache2/httpd.conf
    50. Re:+1 Funny. by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      Interesting... IE7 on Vista RC2 shows the undownloaded image placeholder (complete with magnification mouse pointer, clicking which results in truly gigantic image placeholder) and has "Show Picture" in the context menu. Selecting "Show Picture" flickers the placeholder like it's downloading, but won't download it entirely and thros the placeholder back up. I guess it downloads just the header, decides the file is too huge, and kills the download.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    51. Re:+1 Funny. by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      an RLE compressed bitmap, or otherwise easilly compressed file would shrink down to nothing at all when it is transferred/stored, but explode like a zip bomb when you try to display or edit it.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    52. Re:+1 Funny. by X-treme-LLama · · Score: 1

      Actually Safari pulled it up just fine, didn't even suck up a lot of memory to do it. no crashy..

      Intel Mac, 10.4.8

    53. Re:+1 Funny. by UnxMully · · Score: 1

      Tried to open it in Preview on OSX. That's the first time I've seen my MacBook grind to a halt.

    54. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lazy bastard

    55. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Took about 25 seconds to load in Safari on my system, tying up Safari pretty good in the process. But things were fine once it was done and other programs continued to respond normally throughout. And they said I'd never use dual processors -- apparently they didn't know my browsing habits.

      It doesn't require dual processors. I encountered similar behaviour using Safari on Mac OS X 10.3.9 on a single processor G4. Safari beachballed for about 45 seconds, but everything else just kept on working.

    56. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No problems in Opera. It loaded swiftly and I was immediately able to scroll around.

    57. Re:+1 Funny. by kchrist · · Score: 1

      Good call.

      $ lynx -head -dump http://tinyurl.com/fgd3x
      HTTP/1.0 301 Moved Permanently
      Connection: close
      X-Powered-By: PHP/5.2.1
      Location: http://goatse.cz/
      Content-type: text/html
      Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:47:11 GMT
      Server: TinyURL/1.5


    58. Re:+1 Funny. by kchrist · · Score: 1

      If by "into oblivion" you mean +5 Funny, it's been taken care of.

      You're welcome!

    59. Re:+1 Funny. by chimpo13 · · Score: 1

      Firefox 2.0.0.3 on 2000 Pro.

      The image "http://www.danamania.com/temp/dontloadthis.jpg" cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.

      It brings up the magnifying glass which does nothing.

    60. Re:+1 Funny. by treeves · · Score: 1

      No good on my SE with System 7.5 and NCSA Mosaic.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    61. Re:+1 Funny. by FrozenFOXX · · Score: 1

      Works fine for me. I don't see an image but I don't want to enable scripting for the site (I use the NoScript extension) just for the sake of argument.

      I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.2 on 64-bit Ubuntu Edgy (64-bit browser as well). Tied up the system for about twenty seconds but it ran (single core AMD64 4000+ if it matters to anyone).

      --
      "Just a fox, a whisper."
    62. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Windows XP SP2 instantly gave the 'could not display because it contains errors' error message and claimed it was 20000x20000 scaled 4%. No crash or freeze.

    63. Re:+1 Funny. by cswiger · · Score: 1

      Safari 2.0.4 under OS X deals with it mostly OK-- it beach-balls for a few seconds, and Safari's VSIZE jumps from ~300 MB to 2.5 GB, but it does open OK as a grey image with a white border. I can hear the disk swapping if I scroll around the image... :-)

      --
      "The human race's favorite method for being in control of the facts is to ignore them." -Celia Green
    64. Re:+1 Funny. by m0biusAce · · Score: 1

      And yet Opera 9 opened it just fine...

    65. Re:+1 Funny. by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, he actually does support gay marriage, just not as a legal construct (and no, that is not hypocritical or a 'flip-flop', I support a person's right to declare another person their "Best Friend Forever", but I don't think thats something that should be regulated by the government).

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    66. Re:+1 Funny. by emurphy42 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I confirmed it on XP Pro SP2. (homelinux.net is a separate server, haven't tested it there.)

    67. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i use firefox 2.0.0.3 on osx ppc and it took awhile but it did load

    68. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      odd, the blank image crashed my mac OSX system (firefox 1.5.0.4), but the orion one didn't (even opening up the orion.jpg image in it's own tab, not in the webpage linked to)

    69. Re:+1 Funny. by kenb215 · · Score: 1

      In Firefox 1.5.0.11 I got the message The image "http://www.danamania.com/temp/dontloadthis.jpg" cannot be displayed, because it contains errors. Going to View Source gives a bunch of random stuff, with the words "Ducky" and "Adobe".

      However, I could right-click it and save it to My Pictures. MS paint can't open it. Windows and Fax Viewer could view it, but not at full size, and doing anything takes several seconds.

    70. Re:+1 Funny. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      It opened up fine on my system using Opera 9.10, but having 2GB of ram probably helps. My guess is that a lessor system would eventually open it, after a long period of grinding the disk heavily and appearing to be unresponsive.

      I still find it amusing that you can take down OSX with overly large images. Kind of reminds me of Windows 98 a bit.

    71. Re:+1 Funny. by tonycheese · · Score: 1

      Thanks for crashing my computer -_-. I really should have read the whole sentence before clicking the link. What could I possibly do with a giant white picture, anyway?

    72. Re:+1 Funny. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I was skeptical, but it turns out you're right

      http://www.zlib.net/zlib_tech.html

      zlib, used in PNG files
      "He goes on to note that the current implementation limits its dynamic blocks to about 8 KB (corresponding to 8MB of input data); together with a few bits of overhead, this implies an actual compression limit of about 1030.3:1. ...
      By way of comparison, note that a version of run-length encoding optimized for this sort of unusual data file -- that is, by using 32-bit integers for the lengths rather than the more usual 8-bit bytes or 16-bit words -- could encode the test file in five bytes. That would be a compression factor of 10,000,000:1"

      This file is probably quite close to the maximum compression ratio.

      Mind you RLE in BMP files uses 8 bit lengths

      http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms532328. aspx

      Actually, I reckon a JPG with a insane quantisation matrix that chucks away all the data should be able to have an enormous compression ratio, but I'm not sure what the entropy coding limit after the DCT is.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    73. Re:+1 Funny. by ithicine · · Score: 1

      I am so uploading this where people will see it. Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Ubuntu Feisty Fawn ate a full gig of memory before I killed it, and my system load average hit 9.9 in an instant.

      However, Nautilus 2.18.0.1 had absolutely no problems thumbnailing the image. Hooray! danamania, you just made my day.

    74. Re:+1 Funny. by VanessaE · · Score: 1

      Opera 9.10 handles it quite gracefully (instant load and "render" and no UI problems besides the obviously wide/tall page).. I suppose using a 2048x1536 screen to start with kinda helps, though...

    75. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also absent-mindedly clicked on the link. Only FireFox beachballed for me. I was able to get to the force-quit menu and shutdown FireFox. (and this is on a 667MHz G4)

    76. Re:+1 Funny. by neerolyte · · Score: 1

      Oh how I wish I had finished reading the description of that image before I clicked the link. It kills my firefox install (kubuntu) :( Had to xkill to get back control.

    77. Re:+1 Funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Internet Explorer 7 handles the image okay. Doesn't screw that browser up. Shame though cause that is by far the most popular browser used on the web.

    78. Re:+1 Funny. by ggvaidya · · Score: 1

      Opera 9.10 on MacOS X beach-balled for a while, and the interface went slow for a while too (opening another window took ages, etc.). The image did eventually load up, after about 30 secs to a minute. It's still "open" in a tab as I write this =).

      As an aside, this comic is probably really appropriate, considering the number of people who tried clicking that link, just to see what happened.

  3. Let's see how McCain handles it by JudeanPeople'sFront · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If he is a good politician, he should make fun of the whole thing (and gain a few votes :)

    1. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If he is a good politician, he should make fun of the whole thing (and gain a few votes :)

      If McCain is a good politician and decent human being, he should come out in support of gay marriage.

    2. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by strider44 · · Score: 1

      And bring up an extremely polarising issue? I think you have a more idealistic view of a "good politician" than I do.

    3. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's the sad part, that being a "good" politician has nothing to do with doing the right thing, but pandering for the easy votes.

    4. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by kalirion · · Score: 1

      If McCain is a good politician and decent human being

      Now there's an oxymoron if I've ever seen one. McCain used to be a decent human being before deciding to become a good politician (i.e. hypocrite - see his anti-torture "victory").

    5. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by Sanguis+Mortuum · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Good politician" and "decent human being" are mutually exclusive...

    6. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      What about Ghandi, or George Washington?

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    7. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by slack_prad · · Score: 1

      That'd be 'Gandhi'

      --
      Sent from my desktop computer
    8. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing his response will be to support the president's decision to bomb MySpace...

    9. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      One turned down being crowned king and didn't run for a second term. The other pushed spinning wheels?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    10. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Actually I'm talking about Girish Ghandi, a pro British politician who worked hard to improve the treatment of circus fleas and died in obscurity. Mohandas K Gandhi was a fanatic who caused millions to die when premature independence lead to the violent war of partition.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    11. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Now there's a war I can get behind.

      Livejournal + Myspace = Internet Axis of Emo.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    12. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by slack_prad · · Score: 1

      Are you sure 'Girish Ghandi' was pro-British? Quick! check his wiki entry.

      --
      Sent from my desktop computer
    13. Re:Let's see how McCain handles it by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I'm absolutely sure he was pro British, since I invented him for satirical purposes.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  4. Graphic shoulda been a DMCA takedown notice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They did not credit me for the template, even though the template explicitly requested credit.

    Hmm. Sounds like someone broke a software license. Seems awful close to piracy. Someone call Orrin Hatch!

  5. This could majorly backfire by donscarletti · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How long until Mr Davidson gets prosecuted by some lawyer working for McCain who hasn't realised that laughing along with the joke is a lot more dignified than litigation? With the amount the average judge knows about the internet, he could actually be imprisoned for this if some arsehole in a suit and tie crys loud enough. As simple as the case may seem to us, to the general public, defacing a site is illegal hacking, nomatter how it is done and no doubt McCain could get a clueless PHB to testify to that as an "expert witness" if he wanted to.

    --
    When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    1. Re:This could majorly backfire by chanrobi · · Score: 5, Informative
      If you'd even bothered to actually to read the TFA it says this

      simply replace my own sample image on my server with a newly created sample on my server There is no "hacking" involved unlike what the title suggests. The image on McCains page was hotlinked off his site and he simply changed it to something else.
    2. Re:This could majorly backfire by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 5, Insightful

      defacing a site is illegal hacking

      Huh? From the fine summary: "the McCain page was pulling an image from Davidson's site" - how can it be illegal to change the contents of your own website? How could this even be called 'hacking'? If you pull graphics from other websites, prepare to get what you deserve! It says "Pranked" instead of "Hacked" in the summary title for a reason.

      I think he did a great prank and I laughed my ass off - there are some funny comments, too:
      > Jeff Croft
      > Mike, your testicals are very, very large

      >> Mike D.
      >> Thank you. Please spellcheck your genitalia references though. :)

      --
      I hope I didn't brain my damage.
    3. Re:This could majorly backfire by Ed+Avis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes - but don't expect any common sense from the legal system in anything related to computers or (shiver) 'hacking'.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    4. Re:This could majorly backfire by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no "hacking" involved unlike what the title suggests. The image on McCains page was hotlinked off his site and he simply changed it to something else. Exactly. But would the general public and some random computer-illiterate judge understand that? That was the point donscarletti was trying to make...
    5. Re:This could majorly backfire by kestasjk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You bet they can come up with some crime that vaguely matches this though. Anti-graffiti laws maybe, who knows? A bit of creativity and liberal use of words and you can easily make this a crime.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    6. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Um, excuse me, but as it says in his description, it was "on [his] server". Prosecutable? No way. Defacing a site? More like someone else defacing their own site by posting something on it without realizing where it comes from.

      Too bad. That's what you get for linking to material from other sources, and it is why many web sites specifically indicate external links, often with disclaimers.

      Because it's popular to do so around here, here's my attempt at an analog analogy. Let's say somebody is consistently taking paper from your stack of letterhead paper, and draining your supply of it. In frustration, you change the letterhead in the pile to read, in small print, "From the desk of Mr. Dumbass".

      Of course, the real irony is that by doing such a good prank, he'll have *far* more traffic from a link to his article from /. :-)

    7. Re:This could majorly backfire by Carewolf · · Score: 0, Troll

      Huh? From the fine summary: "the McCain page was pulling an image from Davidson's site" - how can it be illegal to change the contents of your own website? How could this even be called 'hacking'? If you pull graphics from other websites, prepare to get what you deserve! It says "Pranked" instead of "Hacked" in the summary title for a reason.


      Since when have common sense had anything to do with american law?
    8. Re:This could majorly backfire by BlueTrin · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Well, it will not happen for three reasons:
      • he is campaigning so it could be seen as very negative
      • he modified a picture from his OWN website, it would be something very easy to explain
      • the candidate was stealing bandwidth from his website and not respecting the copyright, although he can always blame the website designers he hired for the blog
      --
      Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
    9. Re:This could majorly backfire by ThosLives · · Score: 0

      I don't care why the image was pulled, or that the image was really on Davidson's site, or that bandwidth was being used.

      The thing a judge would (or should) look at is that the image was changed intentionally for the specific purpose of having that image appear on McCain's website.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    10. Re:This could majorly backfire by kv9 · · Score: 1

      How long until Mr Davidson gets prosecuted [snip] With the amount the average judge knows about the internet [snip] As simple as the case may seem to us, to the general public, defacing a site is illegal hacking, nomatter how it is done and no doubt McCain could get a clueless PHB to testify to that as an "expert witness" if he wanted to.

      +

      TFA

      = definition of irony?

    11. Re:This could majorly backfire by pipatron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you know that someone is stealing your lunch everyday, and you know who it is, and you poison the food, I'm sure that they can get you locked up for murder.

      I'm sorry, but I couldn't come up with a car analogy.

      Oh wait! If you set up the bomb in your car so it will explode if someone steals it, and then someone actually do steal it, thus dies, I bet they can lock you up for that too. If, however, you paint the seats, thus ruining the thief's clothes, I doubt the thief can sue you for the dry cleaning bill.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    12. Re:This could majorly backfire by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Come on now, that's little like saying a dog owner puts their dog in the yard for the specific purpose of biting people.
      In actuality the dog is there to make burglars think twice about burgling.

      There's a sign on the fence, if you get bit it's your own dumbass fault.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    13. Re:This could majorly backfire by ThosLives · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because it's popular to do so around here, here's my attempt at an analog analogy. Let's say somebody is consistently taking paper from your stack of letterhead paper, and draining your supply of it. In frustration, you change the letterhead in the pile to read, in small print, "From the desk of Mr. Dumbass".

      Unfortunately it's not like that. In the case of letterhead, the offender has the opportunity to not distribute whatever it is would require the letterhead; in the "instantly live" world of the Internet such a change immediately reaches the public with no requirement for intervention.

      While I don't condone misuse of letterhead or Internet links, abusing the responsibility of respecting the way links are supposed to work (e.g., same-named links are supposed to always have the same general content) is just asking to have the freedom to choose your links taken away.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    14. Re:This could majorly backfire by ThosLives · · Score: 1

      There's a sign on the fence, if you get bit it's your own dumbass fault.

      You would think so, but our courts tend to (rightly) disagree. It's not a property-owner's responsibility or right to prosecute trespassers. That's the responsibility of law enforcement.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    15. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did that once before. Every single day when I went to get my lunch it was gone and the bags were in the garbage. I know they were mine because my name was on them. After a few weeks of this, I left some Exlax-enhanced brownies. It worked for a few months. Eventually, though, my lunches started to disappear again so I gave up and just started eating out. Every now and then I leave a batch of Exlax-enhanced food (I vary the type) and just leave it unmarked in the fridge...

    16. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you know that someone is stealing your lunch everyday, and you know who it is, and you poison the food, I'm sure that they can get you locked up for murder.

      Noone died here. If someone is stealing your beef everyday, and you replace it vegetables, do you get arrested for tricking him into eating vegetables (if we assume he didn't notice until he put it in his mouth)?

      This is closer to what happened here - what the "thief" liked was replaced with something he didn't like.

    17. Re:This could majorly backfire by donscarletti · · Score: 1

      I actually did read the article but enough information is given in the summary to understand that he didn't modify anything but his own content. But my point is many people will not understand this. To most people he changed the content of the page and the US legal system is not made up of slashdot readers or probably anyone who understands computers in anything but the most superficial way. The general public see the end result and there is a good chance that this is how it would be assessed by the legal system.

      I should have clearly acknowledge that he didn't change McCain's site but I assumed that we all knew this and wasn't aware that filling out several lines of reading comprehension was a prerequisite to making a relevant comment.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    18. Re:This could majorly backfire by stanleypane · · Score: 2, Informative

      While I don't think this is technically illegal, there is the fact that he intentionally replaced it with an image that was directly related to McCain's character. Intent goes a long way in US courts. Had he replaced it with a general image not directly related to McCain (Goatse?) than he'd probably stand a better chance if this does make it in front of a Judge.

    19. Re:This could majorly backfire by donscarletti · · Score: 1

      Huh? From the fine summary: "the McCain page was pulling an image from Davidson's site" My point is and has always been that the general public will not understand this fact. I don't know why everybody assumes that I somehow managed to avoid reading not only the article but the summary too. The site wasn't hacked, I know it, you know it, but Sen. John McCain probably doesn't even know that it was going on to begin with, he'll just see his page changed and cry defamation.
      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    20. Re:This could majorly backfire by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 3, Insightful

      was changed intentionally for the specific purpose of having that image ...
      ...changed (for whatever reason). Which would go unnoticed, unless McCain steals the image for his own site and doesn't even bother to copy it to his webspace. Really, I see your point, but this is ridiculous! The pic was on Davidson's site, and therefore he can change it every which way he likes - without having to notify people who leech his graphics. Why he did it does not matter at all, I think. Instead, you might ask McCain why he used the pic in the first place. Remember, this was not a hack!
      --
      I hope I didn't brain my damage.
    21. Re:This could majorly backfire by Zonk+(troll) · · Score: 1

      MySpace really needs to provide image hosting for their (l)users. I've had people hotlink images from my site to their MySpace pages. Before I blocked that ability, I would change those images to goatse.

      --
      "The Federal Reserve is a fraudulent system."--Lew Rockwell
      End The FED. -
    22. Re:This could majorly backfire by gnasher719 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      '' The thing a judge would (or should) look at is that the image was changed intentionally for the specific purpose of having that image appear on McCain's website. ''

      The judge would also figure out that he was completely in his rights to do this.

    23. Re:This could majorly backfire by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now just make the car a BMW and we can move this discussion to apple.slashdot.org

    24. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In actuality the dog is there to make burglars think twice about burgling. Due to your use of "burgling" I'm guessing you're from England.

      There's a sign on the fence, if you get bit it's your own dumbass fault. Not in America. Due to our broken legal system, someone can break into your house, get attacked by your dog and then be able to sue you for getting attacked. Your dog will probably end up being executed ("put to sleep") and you'll have to pay the burgler.
    25. Re:This could majorly backfire by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 3, Funny

      Had he replaced it with a general image not directly related to McCain (Goatse?) than he'd probably stand a better chance if this does make it in front of a Judge.

      Holy cow, imagine that! Judge: "Good thing you used the Goatse guy pic which is completely unrelated to McCain! You're free to go. And thanks for introducing me to such an interesting ho... person. I'm off to check that guy's website!"

      --
      I hope I didn't brain my damage.
    26. Re:This could majorly backfire by ThosLives · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Interesting argument.

      Publishing something on the web might be more like broadcasting on the airwaves. The FCC already has rules about what you can broadcast, and there are already rules on the internet about warnings for content that you might be providing.

      Considering that putting a link on the internet does not restrict who can use it, it really is a broadcast, so that means that anyone can use it.

      Unless you put the images behind an https link or something else that requires authorization, the entire point of the 'net is "available to all".

      I guess it isn't a nice clean issue like we'd all think. The line between knowing that if I change an image it will go unnoticed for some time and potentially have "prank" value and the responsibility for me to continuously monitor everything to which I link is not very well defined, but as I said in another post, abusing the trust to keep same-named links having constant-meaning content is just going to cause problems.

      Also, if you post on the 'net you expect to get visitors. What do you mean, "too many"? Or "Hey, I didn't want *that* group of people to use up all my bandwidth!". Too bad; you should have put restrictions up to select who can use your bandwidth.

      You can't have both pieces of the pie; either your information is free for whomever uses it, or you have to restrict it so only certain people can use it.

      You cannot have freedom without responsibility.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    27. Re:This could majorly backfire by hey! · · Score: 1

      how can it be illegal to change the contents of your own website?


      Well, in the worlds of the immortal W.S. Gilbert, "the subtleties of the legal mind are equal to the emergency." It's quite possible to play devil's advocate here.

      If this gentleman made a change to his site with the express purpose of creating a false impression (I'm not saying this is the case -- it was obviously a prank), McCain might have a defamation case. By analogy you own your own voice, but you can't use it to deliberately inflict damage on another person's reputation without committing slander. If you owned a newspaper, you get to decide what goes into it, but if you commit libel you are liable.

      The beauty of the hack though is that politically, McCain has to be a good sport about it. If he's not, he risks offending the quasi-libertarian western Republican sensibility that says "if it's mine I can do whatever I damn please."
      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    28. Re:This could majorly backfire by bkr1_2k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So trespassing on my property against posted signs is okay? The article states that the code was used without crediting its author and the images were used without copying the source to the users page. According to the article both were expressly stated as "forbidden" and that if you wanted the code you should credit the author.

      In either case, the guy effectively changed his signs from "no trespassing" to "no trespassing you dirty hippy" or something else. He's done no intentional harm and certainly hasn't broken any laws since he changed his own "property".

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    29. Re:This could majorly backfire by radish · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But this is more like someone stealing gas from your car every day and putting it in their car. Then one day you buy a new car which takes diesel instead of regular gas, they steal that and it wrecks their engine. I think that even in the United States od Litigation your liability in that case is pretty minimal :)

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    30. Re:This could majorly backfire by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      How about simply arguing that McCain was plagarizing and the person he was plagarizing from purposely gave him bad info?

      Makes it a lot clearer how McCain was wrong to the general populace, especially those who got caught doing this in school.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    31. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1
      How long until Mr Davidson gets prosecuted by some lawyer working for McCain

      No politician would be stupid enough to sue someone perjoratively during an election.

      With the amount the average judge knows about the internet, he could actually be imprisoned

      Yeah, and with the amount the average gas station jerk knows about particle physics, MY CAR IS GOING TO ASPLODE. Here's a hint for you: no amount of stupidity on the part of a judge will invent a legal offense where before there was none. Read along with me: making someone look stupid is not illegal. (If it was, the wrong half of SlashDot would have been in jail ages ago, and I would be terrified to remind you how the world actually works.)

      he could actually be imprisoned for this if some arsehole in a suit and tie crys loud enough

      What amazes me is that I suspect you actually believe this is how the law works.

      As simple as the case may seem to us, to the general public, defacing a site is illegal hacking,

      1. No it isn't
      2. Mr. Davidson didn't deface anything.


      Maybe you didn't realize this, but it isn't Mr. Davidson's problem what someone else chooses to do with his site. It might be different if Mr. Davidson entered Mr. McCain's site and forcibly replaced data. He didn't. Mr. Davidson will not be going to jail because some other jackass decided to steal his bandwidth.

      and no doubt McCain could get a clueless PHB to testify to that as an "expert witness" if he wanted to

      And what, exactly, do you believe this "expert witness" of yours will say, to invent a breach of law?

      No matter how much you want to pretend a stupid judge and ignorant public would mean going to jail over a misunderstanding, it never actually would; that's part of why we run in a precedent system in the first place.

      It's funny - you're as clueless about the law as you seem to believe the average public is about the internet. The only real difference here is that the public hasn't been this clueless about the internet in five years, and you don't seem to be picking up a law book. Next time, when you want to feign familiarity with the law, remind yourself three words: "presumption of innocense." Nothing in this country is illegal unless it's specifically written down somewhere as legal, or unless it has illegal ramifications the person doing the thing was aware of a priori. There is no point at which switching an image on your own web page is illegal, unless the new image itself is illegal (child porn or whatever.)

      Here's a good rule of thumb. Start by pretending to be the defender, and asking extremely difficult questions like "at what point did Mr. Davidson illegally connect to and change John McCain's website?" Because, y'know, even if someone out there was stupid enough to sue over a prank, the prosecutor would still have to deal with those pesky common sense questions. Also, nobody's going to jail for telling you they spit in your coffee after you drank it, even when they really didn't. Jail time is not actually the defacto way for the legal system to squint at someone and say "cut it out."

      Costanza is only funny on TV, not on SlashDot.
      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    32. Re:This could majorly backfire by maxume · · Score: 1

      Regardless of the legality of what he did, he is on the right side of the little guy/bully equation.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    33. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 0

      How can someone with as low a UID as yours be this fearfully clueless about the legal system? Find one case of someone going to jail because a judge or legal system clueless about technology sent them there. It's a myth. It does not happen. I mean, christ on a crutch, even Sundown got overturned, and that was eighteen years ago, before most people who are on SlashDot now had even heard of the internet.

      Seriously. Find me one in the last ten years. Don't bother dusting off some RIAA case; the legal system isn't at fault for those. You want a judge or the law sending someone to jail for something that isn't illegal, not a bunch of people whining about the record industry, and if your example is built on anything even resembling theft, it's crap at the door.

      Insightful my ass. Judges have a better record for understanding this stuff than any SlashDotter. Mod parent into the deep, deep earth.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    34. Re:This could majorly backfire by maxume · · Score: 1

      Would it be his responsibility to keep the link live just because somebody was using it? No one is going to answer that with a yes. "Cool URLs don't change", but there is also a pretty good stigma attached to hot linking someone else's images.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    35. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 5, Interesting
      But would the general public and some random computer-illiterate judge understand [hotlink replacement]?

      1. Would someone who went to law school for eight years, then acted as a lawyer, then went back to law school for four more years, understand simple propriety and ownership? Yes.
      2. It's not the judge's problem to understand things. I don't know why SlashDot thinks it is. That's the purpose of the defense attorney. The system is simple: the attorneys both understand and explain the situation as best they can, and then the judges use the information presented by the attorneys to rule.


      Seriously, there's a reason for expert witnesses, and it's this: judges are there to understand the law, AND ANYTHING ELSE IS JUST ICING. Judges don't need to understand the internet, because any defense attorney worth half his salt will say "yes, and Mr. Davidson didn't change anything outside his own server," and the prosecution will be summarily laughed out of the building. If it's Wisconsin, they may have a large red "L" tattooed on their forehead first.
      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    36. Re:This could majorly backfire by nomadic · · Score: 5, Funny

      Would someone who went to law school for eight years, then acted as a lawyer, then went back to law school for four more years, understand simple propriety and ownership? Yes.

      I wouldn't trust anyone who took 8 years to finish law school to understand much of anything...

    37. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 4, Informative

      You bet they can come up with some crime that vaguely matches this though.

      Uh. No, you really can't. You also can't come up with a crime that vaguely resembles my drinking coffee in the morning.

      Anti-graffiti laws maybe, who knows?

      Oy. First off, graffiti is illegal in less than a quarter of the United States, and in those places where it is illegal, it's almost always simply illegal on public property. There are almost no points in the United States where graffiti on private property is illegal. That's why almost all graffiti cases are actually tried as destruction of private property - graffiti isn't illegal.

      Why is the difference important? Well, for one, destruction of private property is illegal, but it's not criminal; unless there's something particular about the content of the graffito, the person can't be sent to jail except overnight holding, there's a limit on the fine that can be laid, and they're not liable for concommitant damage. So, for example, if an artist painted a beautiful graffito painting on the side of a building, and some jerk was staring at it instead of driving and got into a wreck that killed a kid, the artist would not be accessory to manslaughter.

      Graffiti involves you doing something to someone else's things, not your own. The reason you can't come up with a sensible example is because there isn't one. The legal system isn't a question of who can come up with the biggest stretch, and believe it or not, a judge is well within their rights to say "fuck off, that's not what that law means." In fact, that's their purpose, and they do that all the time.

      What a judge cannot do is send you to jail without a damned good reason. If you appeal a judge's ruling and it gets overturned, circuit court is required to make a decision that they never seem to teach you about at the SlashDot J Fakespert Building of Almost Law at the NBC campus of the University of Law and Order: SVU. (That's right, I'm making fun of your channel 4 law degree. Maybe you can convince a judge that I'm putting a graffito on SlashDot?) Specifically, that decision is whether to overturn with or without prejudice.

      Maybe you should get on http://notacollegeofjurisprudence.wikipedia.net/ and track down just what happens to a judge when their rulings are overturned with prejudice? The actual count varies from state to state, but in Pennsylvania it's three a year, and in Washington DC it's zero tolerance.

      A bit of creativity and liberal use of words and you can easily make this a crime.

      Really? Go right ahead: we're listening. Show us something a little less ridiculous than laws designed to keep city signs legible. Or did you think graffiti laws were there to keep people from painting on things?

      Have a look through your local law library for a 1970s New York City block of precedent that was taken state then national by Andy Warhol, surrounding the then-little-known street artist Jean Michel Basquiat. We've actually gone through this on walls in public, where Basquiat intentionally took it to a senator in public. The wall didn't belong to Basquiat, and Basquiat wasn't having a good old josh like Mr. Davidson is. The senator tried a bunch of stuff to get it taken down, including leaning with all his senatorial might. He got nowhere. Basquiat died a few

      Basquiat died several years later on the wrong end of a heroin needle, a free man. At that time, most of America learned that paranoia does not generate legal fault. Our founding fathers went way, way out of their way to make what you're describing fundamentally impossible, and they did a beautiful job of it. Clueful legal commentators understand and respect that.

      And please have the sense to stop pretending to grok the law. Lawrence Lessig you are not.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    38. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is no "hacking" involved unlike what the title suggests. The image on McCains page was hotlinked off his site and he simply changed it to something else.

      It's a great hack. It's so simple and elegant that some people don't even realize that it's a hack.

    39. Re:This could majorly backfire by egomaniac · · Score: 1

      And everybody else's point is that nobody gives a rat's ass if the general public understands it or not. What matters is whether the legal system understands it. This is not illegal and I have full confidence that any judge is smart enough to understand that.

      --
      ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
    40. Re:This could majorly backfire by Skater · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of the "hack" I saw of someone's main page yesterday: it was a wiki-based site! I had to laugh at the absurdity of it. It's still there right now, complete with a "Hacked by..." message, with the regular page still in the history.

      (I saw it last night right after it happened and didn't want to register just to fix it - I assumed one of the regular site users would've fixed it by now. I decided the software that site has isn't what I was looking for.)

      I've changed images on people, though - someone was using a high-resolution image I had of a logo off an Impala for their avatar on a forum. I found the forum and found the person - they had "What would Jesus do?" in their sig. So I changed the image to "What would Jesus think of your bandwidth theft?".

    41. Re:This could majorly backfire by netsharc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      http://www.boingboing.net/2007/02/14/teacher_faces _jail_t.html

      She was in front of a classroom full of children, malwared-IE started popping up porn ads, everybody goes nipple-gate because "she's exposing them to porn!!!".

      --
      What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
    42. Re:This could majorly backfire by RESPAWN · · Score: 0

      I dunno. Remember: this is the same country where McDonald's was successfully sued for serving hot coffee.

      --

      If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.

    43. Re:This could majorly backfire by crawling_chaos · · Score: 1

      Oh, that I had mod points. I work with lawyers, and the one thing I've learned over the years is that your worst enemy in a legal proceeding is your own misunderstanding of the law. That's one reason for licensing, which is not automatic, even if you graduate at the top of your class from Yale Law.

      --
      You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
      -- Colonel Adolphus Busch
    44. Re:This could majorly backfire by fredrated · · Score: 2, Insightful

      McDonalds got sued for serving extremely hot coffee that they had been warned many times could injure someone. They choose to ignore the warnings and continued to serve coffee much hotter than it needed to be, which was probably convenient for them. Personally I am glad they got their ass kicked for their hubris.

    45. Re:This could majorly backfire by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Yes but this wasn't a "poison" image. Let me put forth a modified analogy:

      If you know someone is stealing your lunch everyday, and they happen to be very allergic to seafood, do you think you could get into into trouble if you decide to bring an eggroll with some shrimp in it to lunch?

      Doesn't matter that his throat swelled shut and he suffocated - you brought a perfectly harmless (to you) meal to lunch. Hell you might even love shrimp egg rolls (just as the guy with this link may well support gay marriage). What someone else did with it illegally is their problem.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    46. Re:This could majorly backfire by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      Calling this illegal hacking is like blaiming someone for being injuried by something you stole from them.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    47. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No car analogy, huh? That sounds like a challenge.

      It's like having someone who keeps "borrowing" your license plate without permission (and technically illegally), so you change your plate to a vanity one reading "DUMASS". If a person is too stupid to look at the plate before they take such a plate and mount in on their own car, that's *their* problem, not yours, and you certainly haven't done anything illegal yourself.

    48. Re:This could majorly backfire by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

      If you get arrested and spend a night in jail, have to post bail, have to retain an attorney, and take 1+ days off (or at least mornings off) to go to court, you've already lost an assload of time and money and it's a huge hassle. And that assumes you get it dropped in a quick manner as opposed to having to go to trial over it. And that assumes that you don't have to deal with the shame of friends and neighbors learning you were arrested.

      One of the most common misconceptions of the legal system is that being found innocent/not-guilty is free. It's not.

    49. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you know that someone is stealing your lunch everyday, and you know who it is, and you poison the food, I'm sure that they can get you locked up for murder.

      Wow, that's a great analogy. Now if only one person was hurt or killed in any way by a guy choosing to replace an image on his own webserver, that might be germane. What you seem to be missing is that embarrassment isn't criminal. The reason poison would be illegal is because it would kill someone. Nobody died here. Some jerk has egg on his face for being thoughtless.

      If you think that's illegal, I challenge you to show how through something other than than metaphor.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    50. Re:This could majorly backfire by inviolet · · Score: 1

      I dunno. Remember: this is the same country where McDonald's was successfully sued for serving hot coffee.

      I agree with your sentiment, if not with your example. The McDonald's case was not about hot coffee; rather, it was about abnormally hot coffee vs. the reasonable expectations of the customer.

      That said, I myself still firmly advocate "buyer beware", instead of the modern and lamentable "seller beware" system we are now stumbling under... but still, you should pick a better example.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    51. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 2, Funny

      The thing a judge would (or should) look at is that the image was changed intentionally for the specific purpose of having that image appear on McCain's website.

      And? What, you think it's illegal because it's mean? Can you cite a law to the effect of "508.c4.232 section 6 statute 5b states that no man shall place lesbian jokes on another man's webpage" ? Maybe there's that people's doctrine entitled "Leaving shit on your web page so someone else can use it?"

      I mean, I seem to be missing something here. Did someone change the law to "thou shalt not thumb thy nose at thy Politicians" while I was sleeping? Have you pointed out something illegal, or do you just think people can go to jail for being funny, or what?

      Yes, a judge should be looking at that. It's freaking hilarious. That doesn't mean incarceration, though.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    52. Re:This could majorly backfire by JavaLord · · Score: 1

      You bet they can come up with some crime that vaguely matches this though. Anti-graffiti laws maybe, who knows? A bit of creativity and liberal use of words and you can easily make this a crime.

      Tampering with a federal election? That wouldn't be fun to go to court over....

    53. Re:This could majorly backfire by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I heard that in some states you're allowed to blow away burglars with your sixgun.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    54. Re:This could majorly backfire by corbettw · · Score: 2, Informative

      Two words: Randall Schwartz.

      Yes, I know his conviction was eventually overturned, but only after he spent ungodly sums of money defending his good name.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    55. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sued for serving hot coffee

      Not just hot coffee. Undrinkably hot coffee capable of causing 3rd degree burns.

    56. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you get arrested and spend a night in jail, have to post bail, have to retain an attorney, and take 1+ days off (or at least mornings off) to go to court, you've already lost an assload of time and money and it's a huge hassle.

      If someone sues you and it's dismissed with prejudice, they pay your legal bills. Generally, for something like this, you wouldn't actually need to go to court; you'd just send your attorney. It would cost you several hours on the phone explaining the situation, and you'd be out the money temporarily until the judge said "fuck you, McCain, this is retarded, pay his lawyer." As far as an assload of money, this is fairly standard legal fare; you can get something like this covered for about four hours at $125/hour. If $500 seems like a lot to you to resolve legal disputes, I'm not sure what to say. Also, what makes you think that someone gets arrested and goes to jail for getting sued? You get something in the mail.

      So yeah, you're out $500 for a few months, and you have to waste two lunch hours on the phone. So what? Big deal. You could easily take a day or two off over this. Your boss isn't going to get angry if you say "I have a US senator suing me, I need a day off to mount a defense." Chances are you'll be the office hero at the end, and you'll make more than your $500 back in free lunches before McCain would be forced to give it to you anyway. By the way, it's illegal for an employer to affect your employment status due to your court appearances, so you can skip the "but he'd fire me" right now, because if he did, you'd be a millionaire.

      One of the most common misconceptions of the legal system is that being found innocent/not-guilty is free. It's not.

      It is when the lawsuit is an obvious turd, and when you look at it from more than the two month perspective. Look it up. Barratry isn't legal in this country. That's why every time someone sues a big corporation, the big corporation doesn't just tie it up in counter lawsuits until the person has died of old age.

      Just because you can see a way a conspiracy might work to stomp the little guy doesn't mean that's how it actually will work. Some time, try thinking about what might stop the obvious train wreck of justice from happening.

      We're a nation of a third of a billion people, and I'm willing to bet you can't count your way off of one hand naming legal mishaps regarding computer ignorant judges that led to jail time in the last ten years. No system is perfect, and even a perfect system has problems when it's administrated by human beings. That our mishap rate is so low should be something you're proud of, not afraid of.

      Show me a law that comes within ten nautical miles of what you suggest, making this image replacement illegal, and I will mail you a dollar and an apology. Until then, please accept this notification that you, sir, are utterly clueless as regards our system of jurisprudence. Show me another shaky metaphor or "well they might look at it this way" and you will be summarily subjected to laughter and derision. If what you cite doesn't have some legal index code at the beginning, it's a built-in larf.

      Metaphor, viewpoint, simile, juxtaposition, parallel and hypothetical are all worthless in law by definition. Either you cite a code, you cite a precedent, or you stop playing dress-up in the basement and let your daddy do the lawyering. And please don't waste my time telling me that An Opinion, which is a specific thing from a judge which has concrete legal value, is the same as you giving your opinion, which seems to be largely a work of constructive fiction built on top of a miserable lack of actual legal training or comprehension.

      If what you say isn't coming from a law book, don't bother hitting submit.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    57. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      This is about children and pornography, not about cluelessness about computing. If you read more about the issue than what Boingboing told you, you would know that the judge publicly expressed that they felt the ruling was unfair and should not have happened, but that their hands were tied due to the nature of the law. Yes, what happened there is unfortunate, but it really has nothing to do with ignorance of computing. And, frankly, all she really had to do was stand in front of the monitor, or turn the computer off.

      Is the law doing the wrong thing there? Yes. Is it germane here? No, not really.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    58. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, McDonalds was behind the hot coffee mod?

    59. Re:This could majorly backfire by TheoMurpse · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are quite a few knowledgeable lawyers regarding the internet. I'm sure a good one would merely make this analogy:

      Suppose A owns a house with a painting inside near a window. He invites people to walk by his house and view the painting through the window under the license that they credit him for anything they do with the IP of the painting (perhaps A even charges admission); this costs A some money per view, say electricity to keep a lamp turned on and lighting up the painting (this lamp only turns on when someone attempts to view the painting).

      Now B has set up some really powerful telescope that is aimed directly at A's window inside his house. B then profits from having people check out A's painting through telescope. This triggers A's lamp and costs A money, of course. B does not credit A, nor does B compensate A.

      A replaces the painting with another one.

      Question for the court: Did A have a legal right to replace the painting in his own home without informing B (for any reason, even a bad faith reason), especially when B was costing A money AND violating the terms of the license to view which B agreed to when setting up the telescope?

      Answer: Of course. Any judge can see that.

      How's that analogy, does it work? And I didn't even use a car analogy!

    60. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've never heard a satisfactory description of why what Randall Schwartz did wasn't wrong. All I've ever heard is people who say "Well can you name anything he did that *was* wrong?"

      Yes, actually, I can, because I've read the court transcripts. If you're going to invoke his name, explain what you think he did. The reason you only said his name, no doubt, is because you read a page like this, which wastes time saying what he was charged with, and listing a bunch of things that aren't actually bad but that are phrased to look bad.

      And yet, if you look around, at no point does that page explain what Randall did. Just what he was charged with. Did it occur to you that the reason you think he hasn't done anything wrong is because you have no idea what he did?

      The legal system presumes innocense. Slashdot arguments do not.

      Now, is Randall innocent? Actually, no. Should he have been penalized in the way he was? No, certainly not, but he should have been penalized. A sensible reaction to what happened would have been to fine him a couple of hundred dollars for misdemeanor vandalism, and to move on. Yes, what happened to him was bad, but you shouln't be invoking a case you don't understand in order to make a point.

      By the by, what happened to Randall wasn't about ignorance regarding computers in any way. It was simple corporate abuse of the legal system. What I asked for was a fault in justice that happened because of a clueless judge . That's not the same as "find me something bad in the legal system that had a computer in it."

      By the way, if the best you can do in a nation of a third of a billion people is a single twelve year old case that has nothing to do with what was actually requested, then I'd say that we as a nation are doing pretty damned well.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    61. Re:This could majorly backfire by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      how can it be illegal to change the contents of your own website?
      [cynic]Because someone with more power and money than you, doesn't want you to. That's The Law.[/cynic]
      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    62. Re:This could majorly backfire by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1
      Of course you can't find a case of a judge sending someone to jail for something that isn't illegal. By definition, if you can be convicted and sentenced for doing it, then it's illegal.

      I might mention the example of Randal Schwartz, convicted of three felonies for some work he did as a contractor for Intel. He made the mistake of testing password security and, when he found unsafe practices, pointing them out to management. What he did may have been overzealous, but a criminal conviction and the $68k fine with several years' probation is excessive. This is one example of shooting the messenger, which seems pretty common - those who come across security problems (even by accident) and talk about them are liable to prosecution. Not all of those cases will reach the courts, and not all will result in conviction, but if the legal system really were as reasonable as you say then there wouldn't be even the threat of prosecution.

      Another example is the case of Daniel Cuthbert:

      Cuthbert was found guilty under the Computer Misuse Act of gaining unauthorised access to the Tsunami appeal Web site. He claimed in court that he had made a donation and then became concerned that he'd fallen victim to a phishing scam. To check, he added ../../../ to the URL in an attempt to access the site's higher directories -- an action that triggered an alarm.
      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    63. Re:This could majorly backfire by compro01 · · Score: 1

      general public understands it or not. What matters is whether the legal system understands it.

      what do you think a jury is created from?

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    64. Re:This could majorly backfire by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

      If memory serves, you're the one who mentioned jail time, not me: "Find one case of someone going to jail because a judge or legal system clueless about technology sent them there. It's a myth. It does not happen". I simply pointed out that in a criminal case, there is a non-zero cost of innocence. I didn't claim there would be a conspiracy against this guy, or that he broke any laws. I'm simply saying that getting convicted and serving a full jail sentence are not the only potential downsides to a criminal case. Turning around and saying "that doesn't apply to a civil case" or that I'm not proud of our legal system is not a response. I never tried to discuss a civil law situation, and I certainly am happy about the low mistake rate of our legal system.

      Please, in the future, actually read what I write and what you wrote before hitting submit, because you wasted about 5 minutes of your life with your response. Because if you can't bother to post a response that at all deals with what you're responding to, "you will be summarily subjected to laughter and derision."

    65. Re:This could majorly backfire by Intron · · Score: 1

      Are you sure it isn't more like borrowing your air filter and then putting it back with dirt and leaves on it?

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    66. Re:This could majorly backfire by fredklein · · Score: 1

      Not just hot coffee. Undrinkably hot coffee capable of causing 3rd degree burns.

      Coffee is supposed to be served in the range of 185 degrees! The National Coffee Association recommends coffee be brewed at "between 195-205 degrees Fahrenheit for optimal extraction" and drunk "immediately". If not drunk immediately, it should be "maintained at 180-185 degrees Fahrenheit." (Source: NCAUSA.) Exactly what, then, did McDonald's do wrong?

      The plaintiffs were apparently able to document 700 cases of burns from McDonald's coffee over 10 years, or 70 burns per year. But that doesn't take into account how many cups are sold without incident. A McDonald's consultant pointed out the 700 cases in 10 years represents just 1 injury per 24 million cups sold! For every injury, no matter how severe, 23,999,999 people managed to drink their coffee without any injury whatever. Isn't that proof that the coffee is not "unreasonably dangerous"?

    67. Re:This could majorly backfire by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Funny

      How can someone with as low a UID as yours be this fearfully clueless about the legal system?

      Yeah, that's disturbing. Back when Slashdot only allowed current members of the state bar to register their usernames, everyone thought it would keep discussions intelligent. Now we find out that half the people forged their credentials and the other half were in the midst of ethics probes. (I always wondered about that "hot grits" guy's absurd explanation of the Interstate Commerce clause.)

      As for me, yeah, I'll fess up: forged credentials. It was hilarious: the New Mexico board never did get any sort of confirmation call about me at all, even after I posted my first comment critical of Linux. People here are so naive and trusting!

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    68. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1
      Of course you can't find a case of a judge sending someone to jail for something that isn't illegal. By definition, if you can be convicted and sentenced for doing it, then it's illegal.

      Actually, no. Judges can send you to jail for things that aren't illegal (which is why you can be thrown in jail for contempt of court in a nation that honors free speech,) and judges have no part of creating law, thanks to our fundamental system of checks and balances, which you should have learned about in sixth grade. The only point at which judges are involved with law in any way other than interpretation is to declare laws unconstitutional, but that's done in circuit court, which doesn't hear criminal or statutory cases. You're not even talking about the same people. They don't even go to the same law schools, for christ's sake.

      By the way, that was exactly my point. The reason you can't find anyone being sent away for it is *BECAUSE* it isn't illegal. To turn around and tell me that of course they aren't doing it because it isn't illegal is kind of stupid.

      You abstractly claimed that the reason great grandparent's common sense remark that nothing involved was in any way illegal was unimportant, because (and I quote,)

      Yes - but don't expect any common sense from the legal system in anything related to computers or (shiver) 'hacking'.

      To which I replied "show me a case of your paranoia actually coming true."

      I do not see an actual germane example of brokenness in the US legal system regarding this kind of crime.

      Another example is the case of Daniel Cuthbert:

      Yes. Britain's computer crime laws are fucking retarded and broken, I know. They also have cameras Big Brothering their people. This is America. I don't care if some other country gets it wrong.
      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    69. Re:This could majorly backfire by n5vb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      McCain was hotlinking to his site without permission.

      He made a perfectly legitimate change to the content of his own site. The fact that the image McCain's site was hotlinking was affected in the process is not his fault. (And it's theft of service in a way, because he's stealing bandwidth from the legitimate content owner's hosting to do it.)

      I'm sorry, the idea of even someone like McCain pulling a stunt like that is too ridiculous to even think about. It's been tried too many times by too many clueless asshats to have any chance of success. Especially in the current DMCA-flavored IP culture. The fact that a site owner used a particularly creative form of DRM is no excuse to try to coerce him into putting content back onto his site that he chose to remove, and quite honestly, McCain or the staffer who decided to hotlink the image in the first place could actually face a DMCA charge for it. Serve him right, he voted for the damn thing ..

      (saying this mainly because the idea of being forced to keep content up on a site to support bottom feeding bandwidth leeches offends me to the very core of my being)

    70. Re:This could majorly backfire by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the judge publicly expressed that they felt the ruling was unfair and should not have happened, but that their hands were tied due to the nature of the law.

      Isn't that exactly the point? When it comes to the law you can't rely on getting a reasonable or common-sense judgement - at least in the field of computers where we have a lot of hastily passed overzealous laws to deal with 'hackers' (I would suggest some parts of the DMCA, or the British CMA as examples here).

      Nobody is saying that judges are stupid and cannot apply the law properly. The convictions are sound. The criminals are guilty. The law is the law. But it isn't always reasonable. You shouldn't trust a court of law to give a sensible judgement in a computer-related case.
      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    71. Re:This could majorly backfire by evil_Tak · · Score: 1

      Pff, nobody's indicted either of the major US political parties yet; I'm pretty sure some guy who swapped out one of his images is going to be OK.

    72. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      Bwahahaha.

      No, but seriously: if he's in four digit land, that means he's been around since the dawn of dirt. (I know, I look kind of like a noob, saying that; take it on faith that it took me two years to register an account.) It just seems like if he's been around that long, he would have his stupid-dar fine tuned, and would have picked up on the vast wrongness of what he was saying on grounds of seeing other wrong people say it.

      There is a lot of legal clue running around SlashDot, even though by percentage it's pretty rare; I would have expected someone in the five thousands to catch onto the pattern by now, is all, I guess.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    73. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      It's moments like these that I wish I could mod responses to stuff in threads in which I'm active as "funny."

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    74. Re:This could majorly backfire by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

      It's called booby-trapping, and yes, it's illegal. (I know cause I wanted to do it once and looked it up)

      --
      How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
    75. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      If memory serves, you're the one who mentioned jail time, not me: "Find one case of someone going to jail because a judge or legal system clueless about technology sent them there. It's a myth. It does not happen".

      Wait, so let me get this straight. If I say jail time doesn't happen, then you say it does so, and I say no it doesn't, then it's my fault for bringing it up?

      I simply pointed out that in a criminal case, there is a non-zero cost of innocence.

      Which is incorrect. By the way, this isn't a criminal case. As I clearly pointed out earlier, this is illegal, not criminal, and the difference is important.

      didn't claim there would be a conspiracy against this guy

      calc sarchasm

      I'm simply saying that getting convicted and serving a full jail sentence are not the only potential downsides to a criminal case.

      Yes, such as legal fees that will be paid back to you, and several hours on the phone with a lawyer you'll probably never meet face to face, while defending yourself from one of the most powerful men on Earth.

      Gee, that sure sounds like a broken system. Oh, wait ...

      Turning around and saying "that doesn't apply to a civil case" or that I'm not proud of our legal system is not a response. I never tried to discuss a civil law situation, and I certainly am happy about the low mistake rate of our legal system.

      Harbl harbl harbl. You keep repeating the things I was saying about other things, and ignoring the thing I said about what you're now flogging. Yes, I get you, you're myopically focussed on a tiny amount of money and personal time. The money will come back to you, and if you're complaining about two hours on the phone to defend yourself against one of the most powerful men on Earth, frankly, I just have no way to respond.

      I cannot imagine a legal system which causes less hassle or cost than this one does in a situation as thoroughly ridiculous and implausible as the one you're describing.

      Did you know that the *Senator* could go to jail for barratry for attempting the kind of nonsense you're describing?

      Yes, I get it, you can point at things I was saying to the group of people while ignoring the thing I clearly said specifically to you about the thing you're flogging.

      I'll say it again.

      YOU WOULD NOT BE OUT ANY MONEY FOR MORE THAN A FEW MONTHS, AND TWO HOURS ON THE PHONE IS NOT MUCH TO ASK TO SUPPORT A SYSTEM THAT CAN DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN WHEN THESE THINGS MATTER AND WHEN THEY DON'T. THAT IS HOW I AM ARGUING YOUR PROPOSITION. DO NOT RESPOND TO ME BY PRETENDING THAT THIS LARGE ALLCAPS BOLD SECTION DOESN'T EXIST.

      Please, in the future, actually read what I write and what you wrote before hitting submit

      It takes a special man to tell another person to please read what they're writing while abjectly refusing to do so themselves. For the purposes of this conversation, "special" is redefined as "hypocritical."

      I did address the thing you're pretending that I didn't. Read my reply a second time.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    76. Re:This could majorly backfire by mstahl · · Score: 1

      There is no "hacking" involved unlike what the title suggests.

      That's why the title says "pranked", not "hacked"

    77. Re:This could majorly backfire by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Can you cite a law to the effect of "508.c4.232 section 6 statute 5b states that no man shall place lesbian jokes on another man's webpage" ? Maybe there's that people's doctrine entitled "Leaving shit on your web page so someone else can use it?"

      To me, and of course IANAL, the issue is that he in fact did not place lesbian jokes on another man's webpage. That man's staff made a link to a site out of their control. This is not only stupid but it is wrong. If anyone has a lawsuit against anyone, this dude has one against the McCain Campaign (say that nine times fast) for use of his computing resources.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    78. Re:This could majorly backfire by mandelbr0t · · Score: 1

      ...some lawyer working for McCain who hasn't realised that laughing along with the joke is a lot more dignified than litigation? If there was an American politician who was capable of laughing at the joke these days, I'd say McCain would be the guy. Let's hope he takes the high road; it's a long campaign ahead of him.
      --
      "Please describe the scientific nature of the 'whammy'" - Agent Scully
    79. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Allowed? Hell, in Texas if you don't shoot 'em, you can be arrested as an accessory after the fact.

    80. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      the judge publicly expressed that they felt the ruling was unfair and should not have happened, but that their hands were tied due to the nature of the law.

      Isn't that exactly the point?

      Er, no, it isn't. At all. Previously the supposition was that the obviously not illegal thing would land the guy in the slammer because of clueless judges (and, for whatever reason, the public, even though they have zero effect on a lawsuit - maybe you thought there was a jury involved when someone sues someone else?)

      Now you seem to think that archaic laws regarding children and pornography have something to do with a different person changing an image on their own website.

      Do you maybe think that John McCain is going to jail for lesbian jokes on his webpage? Who do you think is the victim exactly? Isn't this new, completely disconnected example that of a victim going to jail because of a technical problem? If John McCain is the victim, then do you think he's going to jail? Or, instead, have you taken the precarious position that Mr. Davidson is the victim of ... his own ... having changed an image?

      I mean, could you maybe use some complete examples, so that you can repair your own inconsistency before it confuses others?
      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    81. Re:This could majorly backfire by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1
      I didn't say that judges create the law. What I meant to say was: judges and courts can only sentence you for things that are illegal. If an activity is not illegal, you cannot be sentenced or jailed for it. I think we agree on this (with the possible wrinkle of contempt of court).

      I was thinking of your request for an example:

      You want a judge or the law sending someone to jail for something that isn't illegal,
      There is no such example. Judges and the law don't send people to jail for things that aren't illegal. I agree.

      Perhaps I am biased by living in Britain with its silly computer laws. Perhaps the two American examples people have given (Randal Schwartz and the teacher prosecuted for porn popups) are just two isolated cases in a long history of sound jurisprudence, and not enough to show that the US legal system is flawed for computer-related cases. Nonetheless, if you should happen to come across a security hole in your online banking site or your employer's computer system, or if you find a way to print out PDF files with the no-print bit set, or you're tempted to poke around in the directory structure of an open FTP site, I would suggest caution before you tell anyone about it. You may feel differently.
      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    82. Re:This could majorly backfire by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Can you cite a law to the effect of "508.c4.232 section 6 statute 5b states that no man shall place lesbian jokes on another man's webpage" ?

      That wouldn't cover this situation. What he really needs to cite is one that says "no man shall place lesbian jokes on his own website, if somebody important is leeching off him." I suspect that would be even harder to find.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    83. Re:This could majorly backfire by trentblase · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of criminal trespass. Property-owners have the right to sue trespassers. Even so, I say the dog's a potential liability. Perhaps a nice spring gun?

    84. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      If anyone has a lawsuit against anyone, this dude has one against the McCain Campaign (say that nine times fast) for use of his computing resources.

      When I was a kid, I watched the Rocky and Bullwinkle show a lot. Every time that moose said "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!," I winced and cheered, because I knew that even though he kept saying it, he'd never be right, and the results would always be painful.

      I often say "there is no way this slashdot discussion could sink to a point of lower clue." Sometimes I wonder if anyone's watching me on TV.

      Anyway, your perspective is noted.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    85. Re:This could majorly backfire by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

      By the way, this isn't a criminal case. As I clearly pointed out earlier, this is illegal, not criminal, and the difference is important.

      You said "Find one case of someone going to jail because a judge or legal system clueless about technology sent them there". According to you "jail" implies criminal (or contempt of court). You took a discussion about a civil case and added criminal to the discussion list. What I'm trying to point out is that the legal system can cost you a lot of time and effort in a criminal matter even if a judge dismisses the issue the second they see it. I'm not saying that something like that frequently happens, I'm just saying that negative costs from the legal system arise from situations other than being found guilty. I'm not trying to argue anything relating to the current case of nerd vs. Senator, I'm addressing your post, specifically the part which related to a judge sending you to jail (I don't think that's an inclusive proof being harmed).

      "Yes, I get you, you're myopically focussed on a tiny amount of money and personal time."

      First of all, if you're middle-class or a student, then losing $500 for a few months is a large deal. If I made $50,000 a year, that's about half a week's salary. Not a deal-breaker, but certainly not "tiny". Now on to your large bold text: I never said it wasn't a price worth paying, I just noted that it was a price, and in some criminal cases, a legitimate harm to people.

      Here's my own large bold text:

      I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A CIVIL CASE. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE CRIMINAL SITUATIONS YOU TOLD PEOPLE TO FIND EXAMPLES OF. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THERE ARE COSTS TO HAVING TO DEFEND YOURSELF IN A CRIMINAL CASE, EVEN IF YOU ARE FOUND NOT GUILTY. THOSE COSTS CAN INCLUDE MONEY, REPUTATION, TIME, AND A NIGHT IN JAIL. I'M NOT SAYING THAT OUTWEIGHS THE BENEFITS OF A GREAT LEGAL SYSTEM, JUST THAT THOSE COSTS EXIST.

    86. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      Indeed, that is moderately funnier. I was mocking several people simultaneously. Thanks for the catch; I got sloppy.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    87. Re:This could majorly backfire by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      Yes, I know his conviction was eventually overturned, but only after he spent ungodly sums of money defending his good name.

      And his defending his good name didn't work so well since I wasn't even aware his conviction was overturned until just now.

      I am glad it was, too bad it is so poorly known.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    88. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      I didn't say that judges create the law.

      If an activity is not illegal, you cannot be sentenced or jailed for it. I think we agree on this (with the possible wrinkle of contempt of court).


      (blinks) Did I stutter?

      By definition, if you can be convicted and sentenced for doing it, then it's illegal.

      Actually, no. Judges can send you to jail for things that aren't illegal

      You want a judge or the law sending someone to jail for something that isn't illegal,

      There is no such example.


      Contempt of court. Failure to reappear after break. Religious intonation instead of testification (silence is legally defended; nothing else is.) Swearing at the prosecutor. Making jokes about an attack that happened at that courthouse a week previously. Wearing religious iconography during a court case. Wearing short pants in court (think I'm joking? Hon. Joseph Puglia, October 2003, Forest Township PA near Pittsburgh, all over the news, upheld and still doing it.) Leaving cell phone on in traffic court (saw that one a year ago, yay jury duty.) When I was at Rutgers watching cases, I saw a judge haul someone off to the tank for 14 days for punching a cop, even though the cop dropped the Assault Of An Officer (5 years mandatory minimum in NJ) charge.

      One of the first things you learn about when you take law classes - which you might try, before you continue pretending to understand what you obviously do not - is that judges can do absolutely whatever the silly shit they want to, and that the *only* person who can screw them on it is another judge. Other judges will not screw them on it, because that mechanism exists to allow the judges to keep control of court. Given the kind of people who go through court, this sort of ability is neither abused nor is it something that can feasibly be removed; the judges know better than to put it at risk, because without it they could not do their jobs.

      Nonetheless, for you to suggest that they cannot do this shows an explicit lack of understanding of the law. Yes, they can. It's written down on paper that these are things they may do at their whim. That they don't is a symptom of their being sober, well trained people, not an indicator of lack of ability. There is nobody in this country, short of the president, whose power is more flexible or extensive than a judge.

      About the only thing a judge can't do in this country is set the death penalty without the support of law, and military judges can even do that - yes, even to civilians.

      Just because you didn't know they could doesn't mean they can't. Please stop confusing absence of knowledge for absence of actuality.
      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    89. Re:This could majorly backfire by Dun+Malg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not just hot coffee. Undrinkably hot coffee capable of causing 3rd degree burns.

      Coffee is supposed to be served in the range of 185 degrees! The National Coffee Association recommends coffee be brewed at "between 195-205 degrees Fahrenheit for optimal extraction" and drunk "immediately". If not drunk immediately, it should be "maintained at 180-185 degrees Fahrenheit." (Source: NCAUSA.) You cannot put 180 degree coffee in your mouth without getting burned. The NCAUSA is at best an authority on flavor. Their opinion has no bearing on safety.

      Exactly what, then, did McDonald's do wrong? They put the quality of their coffee over the safety of their patrons. If they wanted to serve dangerously hot coffee, they needed to take appropriate steps to keep it off their customers. You can't serve 180 degree coffee by throwing it ina customers face either.

      The plaintiffs were apparently able to document 700 cases of burns from McDonald's coffee over 10 years, or 70 burns per year. But that doesn't take into account how many cups are sold without incident. A McDonald's consultant pointed out the 700 cases in 10 years represents just 1 injury per 24 million cups sold! For every injury, no matter how severe, 23,999,999 people managed to drink their coffee without any injury whatever. Isn't that proof that the coffee is not "unreasonably dangerous"?
      No. You can fire a rifle a thousand times out your car window as you drive down the street and not hit anyone. If on the 1001st shot you plug someone between the eyes, you just try arguing that it wasn't unreasonably dangerous because those first 1000 rounds didn't hit anyone.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    90. Re:This could majorly backfire by Morlark · · Score: 1

      Too bad; you should have put restrictions up to select who can use your bandwidth.

      He did. He used a .htaccess rule to restrict access to the image on his server. Ok, so he only did it after the fact, but that's irrelevant. It's still his bandwidth, and his image, and he can choose to add restrictions whenever he wants. Your "either it's free or it's restricted" argument completely ignores the fact that things can change. Your "no freedom without responsibility" line however is quite correct, although not in the way you intended it, perhaps. McCain had the freedom to use this image. But he had the responsibility not to abuse is. He failed in that responsibility, and got pwned as a result.

      --
      Santa's suicide mission go!
    91. Re:This could majorly backfire by feed_me_cereal · · Score: 1

      The EFF would eat any such case for breakfast.

      --
      "Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson
    92. Re:This could majorly backfire by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      You're right - I should have said 'prosecuted' not 'jailed'. I was kind of thinking that contempt of court is illegal, but to say 'it is illegal because you can be jailed for it' is a circular definition that doesn't really help. For future reference what is the definition of 'illegal'? Webster's definition is not that useful.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    93. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      According to you "jail" implies criminal (or contempt of court).

      Where the hell did you get that idea? Criminal means nothing of the sort, and I never implied anything of the sort. At no point did I attempt to define criminal; I honestly expected you to know the difference between a criminal and a civil offense. You can go to jail for things that aren't criminal. I'm saying this repeatedly to someone in another thread. Do I have to start saying this to you, too?

      Criminal != Illegal. All criminal actions are illegal, but not all illegal actions are criminal. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. Criminal is a kind of illegal. Nothing in this discussion is criminal in any way. Criminal covers things like violent crime, breakins, racially motivated action, murder, threats, that kind of stuff.

      Dude, embezzlement isn't criminal. Criminal doesn't mean wrong or against the law. Criminal means violent and horrible. Many illegal things aren't even remotely criminal. Pot isn't criminal, but it's illegal in most of the country. Jaywalking. Smoking in a resteraunt in New York. Slander. Junk bonds and pyramid schemes. Voluntary lemon used auto dealership. Selling mattresses with that tag removed. Stealing MP3s. Killing someone's dog. Opening your neighbor's mail. All of these things are illegal. Some of them are federal. None of them are criminal.

      First of all, if you're middle-class or a student, then losing $500 for a few months is a large deal.

      That's funny, I actually did suffer such a thing as a middle class student, and I weathered it essentially without problems. Maybe that's because I have simple money management skills. (shrugs) Anyway, it's about an eighth of the standard balance of those credit cards they huck at college students like water, so unless they've already buried themselves up to the eyeballs in tens of thousands of dollars of debt - at which point $500 is less than they're paying in monthly fees - then there should be no problem whatsoever getting through it.

      When I was in college, there was a guy who stood outside of the cafeteria hall *every* *day* with stacks of credit card forms pre-filled out for each of the dorms, so that all a kid would do was write and sign their name, date the form, write their room number, and discover debt. I just can't imagine that's stopped.

      You took a discussion about a civil case and added criminal to the discussion list.

      Don't be a tard. What I said, over and over, was "this is not criminal."

      What I'm trying to point out is that the legal system can cost you a lot of time and effort in a criminal matter even if a judge dismisses the issue the second they see it.

      I wonder if you even know what "dismissed with prejudice" and "barratry" mean. If the judge thinks it's a floating turd, the enemy takes your legal bills on, not you. Furthermore, something like this should cost you maybe an hour or two on the phone with a lawyer. You don't have to go to court, you don't have to deal with the police or the judge, you can do this on your lunch hour at work. I know: I did once.

      I'm just saying that negative costs from the legal system arise from situations other than being found guilty.

      Yeah. You pay two months of interest on a credit card until your legal bills are refunded by your lawyer since they've become someone else's responsibility, and you lose a whopping ninety minutes on the phone. Tremendous. Something like that could kill a man.

      If I made $50,000 a year, that's about half a week's salary.

      Zomg, three days of salary? How will you pay for the dialysis?

      Not a deal-breaker, but certainly not "tiny".

      I know people who make $25k/mo and spend nearly $500 between their cable bill and cell phone every month. They're not even that uncommon. If you get lunch at fast food at work every day

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    94. Re:This could majorly backfire by jmoriarty · · Score: 1

      If you'd even bothered to actually to read the TFA it says this

      simply replace my own sample image on my server with a newly created sample on my server Hmmm... maybe the article's author didn't want Slashdot sucking up all his bandwidth, so he replaced the original article with a different article that had all the facts wrong and jumped to half-baked conclusions.
    95. Re:This could majorly backfire by tarp · · Score: 1

      Call the prosecutor and let him know what you think of him.
      The receptionist would not put me through without a bit of argument. Apparently he has been receiving a lot of angry phone calls.
      SMITH, David J. Criminal Justice, Division Of
      (860) 889-5284 david.smith@po.state.ct.us

    96. Re:This could majorly backfire by oliphaunt · · Score: 1

      Forget poisoning your lunch. As of today, if you're in Texas, you can legally just shoot him dead. I think this is a huge improvement.

      --




      Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
    97. Re:This could majorly backfire by The+Warlock · · Score: 1

      And doctors say that you shouldn't put the coffee in your mouth if it's above 150 or so. I dunno about you, but I trust doctors over the National Coffee Association. I mean, if the National Vehicle Fuckers Association went out and said that the front-end of a '68 Camaro is the best orgasm possible, and a group of doctors came forth and said "no, that is in fact bad for your wang," I'd trust the doctors.

      --
      I've upped my standards, so up yours.
    98. Re:This could majorly backfire by naoursla · · Score: 1

      That is why we have a jury of peers. They are supposed to be the common sense safety valve.

    99. Re:This could majorly backfire by fredklein · · Score: 1

      You cannot put 180 degree coffee in your mouth without getting burned.

      I do all the time. It's called SIPPING.

      The NCAUSA is at best an authority on flavor.

      They are an authority on how to PROPERLY prepare their product.

      They put the quality of their coffee over the safety of their patrons. If they wanted to serve dangerously hot coffee, they needed to take appropriate steps to keep it off their customers.

      They did- they poured it into a cup. After that, it's the customer's responsibility.

      You can fire a rifle a thousand times out your car window as you drive down the street and not hit anyone. If on the 1001st shot you plug someone between the eyes, you just try arguing that it wasn't unreasonably dangerous because those first 1000 rounds didn't hit anyone.


      Worst analogy evar.

      McDonalds was not performing criminal acts like 'shooting out their window'. They were properly preparing and serving a beverage. A beverage that virtually no one had a problem with. If you insist on a gun analogy:

      If you sell rifle ammunition, and 23,999,999 rounds fire perfectly, but the 24,000,000th round misfires, causing injury, should you have to shut down your production line besause of that one bad round? (And that's ignoring the point that it was the customer's own mishandling of the ammo that caused her injury, not some sort of in-built flaw.)

      Stella Liebeck sat in a car, pinched the cup of HOT coffee between her knees, and pulled the lid. This caused the cup to pivot and spill the coffee on her crotch. All these things were HER doing, not McDonalds. She chose to not use a cup holder. She chose to hold the cup betweenher knees. She chose to pull the lid.

      Yes, the coffee was hot. It was advertised and sold as hot coffee. There was a warning on the cup saying it was hot.* Common sense says coffee (unless purchased iced) is hot. Common sense also says that you need to treat hot liquids carefully. Which she failed to do.

      IT's not McDonalds fault she's clumsy.

    100. Re:This could majorly backfire by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      I guess today you've discovered that prejudice doesn't hold true, even when it's your own.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    101. Re:This could majorly backfire by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      It was only "much hotter than it needed to be" if you fail to consider the quantity of cream and sugar people who think McDonald's is a good place to buy coffee would use.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    102. Re:This could majorly backfire by AeroIllini · · Score: 1

      Nobody is saying that judges are stupid and cannot apply the law properly. The convictions are sound. The criminals are guilty. The law is the law. But it isn't always reasonable. You shouldn't trust a court of law to give a sensible judgement in a computer-related case. But this is precisely why we have the appeals system we do.

      If you are convicted based on a law that is unfair (the word "unfair" in this context is pronounced "unconstitutional"), then you can appeal the ruling all the way up the court system until you finally get to a court that can do something about it (SCOTUS).

      Which is, of course, why we need these types of "convictions based on ridiculous laws" to make it all the way to a court ruling; this will help us clean out the legislative knee jerks and keep the law sane. The checks and balances in the system are there for a reason.
      --
      For security, the MD5 hash of this message and sig is 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0.
    103. Re:This could majorly backfire by AeroIllini · · Score: 1

      While I don't condone misuse of letterhead or Internet links, abusing the responsibility of respecting the way links are supposed to work (e.g., same-named links are supposed to always have the same general content) is just asking to have the freedom to choose your links taken away. Wait, what?

      No.

      My server, my link, my copyrighted content, full stop. I can put whatever the hell I want in a link named http://www.domain.com/picture_for_mccains_website. jpg and change it as often as I like to anything I like.

      Any lawyer (or senator) who tries to say differently will get a resounding "fuck off" from the Judicial Branch.
      --
      For security, the MD5 hash of this message and sig is 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0.
    104. Re:This could majorly backfire by mypalmike · · Score: 1

      Godwin's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

      Hamburglar's law: As an online discussion about a lawsuit grows longer, the probability of a debate about the merits of the McDonald's hot coffee case approaches one.

      --
      There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
    105. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      I realize you're trying to be deep and meaningful. Maybe next time wait for someone that doesn't know they're a bigotted jerk, like I do. By the way, just because I'm a bigotted jerk doesn't mean my logic - and don't make a mistake, I gave a clear and reasonable logical explanation for my belief - is wrong. Surprisingly, despite what the after school specials tell you, some stereotypes are accurate.

      I'll give you an example: most black people aren't serial killers. Now there's a stereotype you can sink your teeth into!

      If you think pointing out predispositions is a bad thing, maybe you should get the ruler. Everyone and everything is predisposed towards judgements. You have to be. It's the only way you can get through life. You walk inside buildings because you're predisposed to believe that they won't collapse on you. You drink soda because you're predisposed to believe it doesn't contain a nuclear warhead. You watch television because you're predisposed to believe it won't give you ass cancer.

      Just because you can attach an ugly word like "prejudice" to a predisposition doesn't mean it's suddenly ugly. I am predisposed to believe that most adults, regardless of skin color, gender and relgion, will not attempt to eat me alive. Guess what? That one's gotten me pretty far in life: I wouldn't likely have a job if I ran screaming into a corner going "please don't eat me" every time I saw my boss.

      Or, do you think I'm supposed to be embarrassed for expecting a high caliber from someone? I can see someone saying "don't talk down to that man just because he's black." I have a hard time imagining someone saying "Don't talk up to that man just because he's black." Rarely are people angry because they are expected well from. "How dare you treat me like a competant non-boob just because of who I am?" (Don't worry, though - I will agree never to apply such expectations to you, and I will casually say it's because you asked me not to.)

      You really should have an actual reason to be offended by proxy, you half-baked auteur of human rights. Go save a whale.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    106. Re:This could majorly backfire by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "Unfortunately it's not like that. In the case of letterhead, the offender has the opportunity to not distribute whatever it is would require the letterhead; in the "instantly live" world of the Internet such a change immediately reaches the public with no requirement for intervention."

      The speed of interaction has no bearing on the point of the analogy.

    107. Re:This could majorly backfire by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      You read an awful lot into my comment, and gave a seriously long-winded explanation defending the irrational basis for your belief that a low id somehow equates to intelligence. It was fascinating to read. Thank you.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    108. Re:This could majorly backfire by Joebert · · Score: 1

      I live in Florida.

      You've been watching the news & paying attention to oddball cases for too long.
      That stuff happens, but not nearly as often as you make it sound.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    109. Re:This could majorly backfire by zCyl · · Score: 1

      Intent goes a long way in US courts.

      The protection of political parody goes even further.

      The Supreme Court could never side against the guy who did this. There's far too much precedent in support of it.
    110. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. You can fire a rifle a thousand times out your car window as you drive down the street and not hit anyone. If on the 1001st shot you plug someone between the eyes, you just try arguing that it wasn't unreasonably dangerous because those first 1000 rounds didn't hit anyone. I call bullshit on this analogy. If you really could fire a million shots from your rifle out your car window while driving down the street without injuring anyone then it would be safe to do so. But you can't. Which is why it's unreasonably dangerous. So it's illegal to do so (well, it is where I live...).
    111. Re:This could majorly backfire by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      I think the supposition was that an obviously not 'wrong' thing would land the guy in the slammer because it would be illegal. Defacement of a website, or something like that... this certainly is a crime in some jurisdictions, and the mere point that you defaced the site by uploading an image to your own Myspace area might not be enough. No, I don't think a prosecution is likely in this case. Am I just spreading FUD about the legal system? Perhaps. But we've seen enough high-profile bad cases like Schwartz or Sklyarov to be wary. Yes, even though the legal arguments in those cases are quite different to ones about defacing a website.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    112. Re:This could majorly backfire by Dahan · · Score: 1, Informative

      You can go to jail for things that aren't criminal.
      Not in the US you can't. "A person convicted of a crime may pay a fine or be incarcerated or both. People who are held responsible in civil cases may have to pay money damages or give up property, but do not go to jail or prison. (We don't have "debtors' prisons" for those who can't pay a civil judgment.)"--http://criminal.findlaw.com/articles/ 1376.html. You may find more useful info there explaining the difference between criminal and civil cases.

      Dude, embezzlement isn't criminal.
      It is in the US. See US Code Title 18, Chapter 31, conveniently located in the "CRIMES" part of Title 18.
    113. Re:This could majorly backfire by Copid · · Score: 1

      It's called booby-trapping, and yes, it's illegal. (I know cause I wanted to do it once and looked it up)
      A good halfway measure: Buy food coloring powder. The stuff is intensely bright and a big pile of it should sit quietly in the middle of a sandwich without raising any suspicious. It's nontoxic and it will turn the culprit's mouth, lips, and possibly clothing/hands a nice blue color. IANAL, but I'm guessing you'd get away with that one. "Me? Oh, I just like my food to be blue."
      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    114. Re:This could majorly backfire by Dacelo+Gigas · · Score: 1

      How long until Mr Davidson gets prosecuted by some lawyer working for McCain...

      If McCain is dumb enough to give someone subpoena power over him and his website while trying to run a presidential campaign, then perhaps any day now...But for some reason, I just don't see it happening.

      Dacelo Gigas

    115. Re:This could majorly backfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm afraid the strong law of large numbers says your argument is specious.
      If you fire a rifle randomly out of your window, and find that you have a 1/1000 chance of hitting someone, then I think that classes as dangerous. A (1/1000) probability of shooting someone is a bit crazy, and you should be held responsible. However, a (1/24 million) probability of a burn doesn't really count as dangerous.

      If someone buys a hot cup of coffee, they run the risk of a burn. Just like when someone rides a motorbike, they run a risk of crashing and being killed. If you sell motorbikes with dodgy brakes, that give a high risk of crashing, then yes, you should be penalised. But if you sell motorbikes with brakes that are okay, but not quite as good as the competition, then that's okay. It's all about the level of risk. The probability of disaster and how bad the disaster is.
      It's impossible to eliminate risk from everyday life. However, (1/24 million) is pretty marginal. If you've lead any kind of interesting life, you will have taken avoidable actions that could have killed you with a much higher probability than that.

    116. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      You can go to jail for things that aren't criminal.

      Not in the US you can't. "A person convicted of a crime may pay a fine or be incarcerated or both. People who are held responsible in civil cases may have to pay money damages or give up property, but do not go to jail or prison. (We don't have "debtors' prisons" for those who can't pay a civil judgment.)"--http://criminal.findlaw.com/articles/ 1376.html.

      You seem to be confused. There are things in this world other than convictions. Can you go to jail for non-criminal convictions? Not at a federal level (though you can at a state level, something findlaw isn't mentioning for you.) Can you go to jail for non-criminal things which aren't convictions at all? Yes, which is what that gigantic list of things I gave was, all of which are non-criminal, all of which are non-civil, all of which can send people to jail.

      The rebuttal you gave was equivalent to this:
      • There are vowels in the alphabet other than "A".
      • No there aren't: A is a vowel, but B and C are not.

      Giving an example of something that doesn't send you to jail doesn't mean nothing else will ever send you to jail. There is more in court and jurisprudence, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your example.

      Dude, embezzlement isn't criminal.

      It is in the US. See US Code Title 18, Chapter 31

      My mistake.
      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    117. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      I think the supposition was that an obviously not 'wrong' thing would land the guy in the slammer because it would be illegal.

      I don't know why you keep repeating that, when nothing illegal has actually occurred.

      Defacement of a website, or something like that...

      You might as well say he'll get thrown in jail for assault, too, because he didn't do that either.

      this certainly is a crime in some jurisdictions, and the mere point that you defaced the site by uploading an image to your own Myspace area might not be enough.

      No. This just isn't how things work. Something isn't illegal just because some jerk gets angry. Find a law that says it's illegal to alter your own things such that some moron who's decided to become dependant gets made to look stupid, or stop flogging it.

      There is no method under the law for this to be any form of defacement. STOP SAYING DEFACEMENT.

      Am I just spreading FUD about the legal system?

      No. FUD requires you being close enough to the truth for other people to believe you. You're just flapping your arms, trying to fly while everyone in eyeshot giggles under their breath. Nobody else is afraid that the ground is going away. There is no FUD here. Only dumb.

      But we've seen enough high-profile bad cases like Schwartz or Sklyarov to be wary.

      Don't name drop; it's ugly. Skylarov was about copyright law, not computers, not bad judging. The only Schwartz case I can come up with in the last 20 years that even comes close to germane is a Saudi Arabian spying case. I wonder if you believe you're making a point by citing random last names. Let's be clear: if this is the level of your comprehension of the law, it doesn't matter what you've seen. You don't understand any of it. Stop pretending to have a reason to be wary. You might as well be preaching about meteors.

      Yes, even though the legal arguments in those cases are quite different to ones about defacing a website.

      You do realize that by saying this, you're admitting to wasting time and invoking emotionally bound irrelevancies for lack of an actual point to be made, yes?

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    118. Re:This could majorly backfire by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      Feeling superior yet?

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    119. Re:This could majorly backfire by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

      Thats hillarious, I should have thought of that too! (when I was looking into booby traping, it was for rocksalt to explode from my car when My alarm went off for more than 40 seconds.)

      --
      How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
  6. Didn't Last Long by 0rionx · · Score: 4, Informative

    The hacked version of the image was only up for about two hours before it was taken down. Of course, it's now been replaced with an invitation to "Add to Gorup [sic]".

    Will the incompetence ever end?

    1. Re:Didn't Last Long by Technician · · Score: 1

      I like the fact that he likes sports, baseball, football, basketball, boxing..... I know what baseball and such is, but I wonder what sports he is referring to. Maybe the good sports that changed the graphic he fetched from another site.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    2. Re:Didn't Last Long by Malakusen · · Score: 1

      Wonder if that's the kind of intelligence and attention to detail we'll get if he manages to win.

      --
      Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to conviction
    3. Re:Didn't Last Long by smchris · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the hacked-up replacement is floating off-column in an endearingly amateurish way.

    4. Re:Didn't Last Long by jcorno · · Score: 1

      They've also given credit for the original work. Between the donation box and the second video it says, "(Layout provided by Mike Industries.)" with a link to his site. I figured they would just find another layout and pretend this never happened. That was a much more dignified response than I expected.

  7. Never... er... always check your references by Excelcia · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Any politician who thinks he's going to get votes by making a myspace account deserves whatever he gets dished. Reminds me of the clueless professor from Real Genius who thought his students like it when he would "get down, verbally" with them.

    Ya.

    1. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Barack Obama has quite the myspace presence/fan base...

      Obama has quite a few friends...

    2. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Vskye · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Any politician who thinks he's going to get votes by making a myspace account deserves whatever he gets dished. Reminds me of the clueless professor from Real Genius who thought his students like it when he would "get down, verbally" with them.
       
      First off, you're talking out of your ass. This man was shot down in the Vietnam war and a prisoner of war at the famous / infamous "Hanoi Hilton". This man broke both arms and a leg, was tortured and survived. He ejected from his plane back in 1967 and was released in 1974 I do believe. Quite a feat in my book. He might be labeled a bad political choice, but he deserves respect.

      --
      Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
    3. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Excelcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He's a war hero - ok, fine. What difference does that make to my point? I don't care if he was Roger Ramjet or Captain America himself, having some campaign flunky set up a myspace account to get in touch with youth is just dumb.

    4. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Oh+the+Huge+Manatee · · Score: 5, Interesting
      This man was shot down in the Vietnam war and a prisoner of war at the famous / infamous "Hanoi Hilton". This man broke both arms and a leg, was tortured and survived. He ejected from his plane back in 1967 and was released in 1974 I do believe. Quite a feat in my book. He might be labeled a bad political choice, but he deserves respect.

      Mod parent ad hominem.

      This is the danger of judging candidates not by their policy positions, but by their carefully constructed media hype. Remember that with McCain, one could just as easily assert (as some of his opponents will suggest) -- "After finishing fifth from the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy, McCain was a bad enough pilot (probably flying drunk, given his history) that he couldn't keep his plane airborne and out of enemy hands. While in Vietnamese custody, unlike the many prisoners who resisted torture, McCain willingly signed documents 'confessing' to war crimes, and gave the Vietnamese classified information in order to receive more favorable treatment while in prison. Upon returning to the USA, McCain dumped his loyal and long-suffering first wife who had developed back problems, in order to marry a drug-addicted bimbo who had been his physical therapist. He showed poor enough judgment as to take money from Charlie Keating during the S&L scandals of the 1980s, that whether or not he was a crook for taking the money, he was certainly an idiot whose judgment shouldn't be trusted in more important matters."

      Why not just judge the man on his policy positions? Oh, they've flip-flopped enough in the last decade that we can't be sure what his positions are, and all we really have to judge by is his history and his character. Oops!

      By the way, many assume the bulge on McCain's cheek had something to do with his war injuries. In fact, it's the after-effect of skin cancer surgery.

    5. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      He's a war hero - ok, fine. What difference does that make to my point? I don't care if he was Roger Ramjet or Captain America himself, having some campaign flunky set up a myspace account to get in touch with youth is just dumb.

      Captain America is DEAD, you insensitive clod!

      *runs off crying*
    6. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great sounds like the perfect recipe for the next sociopath president of the USA.

    7. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Trailwalker · · Score: 0

      He deserves respect

      You have forgotten the Keating scandal.

      The man whored himself without restraint.

      Whatever he had done in his past to win respect, he has become just another political whore.

    8. Re:Never... er... always check your references by grif_mcrenolds · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wonder how many kids he killed over there. Since when did being in Vietnam make you presidential material? There were guys there who made necklaces out of human ears, so the bar must be set pretty damn low.

    9. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      Any politician who thinks he's going to get votes by making a myspace account deserves whatever he gets dished. Reminds me of the clueless professor from Real Genius who thought his students like it when he would "get down, verbally" with them.

      Except the myspace demographic seems to now encompass people who will be 18 by Nov 2008. This is a smart move, sadly. And while we may think the people on myspace on pathetic losers, a vote from a pathetic loser is counted the same as those from the urbane sophisticated readers of slashdot.

      Reminds me more of MTV's "Rock the Vote" campaign. While they may be often apathetic, teenagers usually have the free time and lack of responsibility needed to actually vote. That's why campaigns heavily hit teenagers (don't have 9-5s yet, usually), soccer-moms (large proportion of stay-at-homes), welfare bums (vote whenever you want when you don't work!), and retireees (ditto). Politicians don't campaign as hard towards people who work 10+ hours a day and have kids to take care of when they get home; when the hell are we going to vote?

      Screw tradition, it's time to move the election to the weekend. Allow voting all day Sat. and Sun. Watch voter turnout jump.

    10. Re:Never... er... always check your references by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 0, Troll

      Hopefully lots of the communist ones who were wearing VC uniforms and shooting at US Soldiers.

      You know, the ones who rolled down south and stomped the regular folks once the US withdrew.

      'Which Side Are You On' (Woodie Gutherie or someone)

    11. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      And Netcraft confirms it!

    12. Re:Never... er... always check your references by R_Ramjet · · Score: 1

      Leave that a**hole Captain America out of this.

    13. Re:Never... er... always check your references by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      You can't be serious. Voting begins at 0800 or earlier in most places, and runs until well after "normal" work hours. And employers are legally obligated to let you leave the office to go vote any time you choose throughout the day. Saying you "don't have time" to vote is just a bullshit cop-out.

      Being too lazy to vote is simply that, laziness. It has nothing to do with difficulty getting to the booths because you "work 10+ hours a day and have kids to take care of when they get home".

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    14. Re:Never... er... always check your references by salzbrot · · Score: 2, Funny

      There were guys there who made necklaces out of human ears, so the bar must be set pretty damn low.


      Yeah, I saw this documentary, too. But the thing that really disturbed me is, that later, our government turned some of those guys into cyborgs to fight terrorists in a secret program called UniSol. Thank god it was all brought to light.
    15. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      F** off, Iron Man!

    16. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But every vet is a hero, don't you know that? Even if you slung hash in the cafeteria or pushed a button to fire cruise missiles from 50 miles away you are a brave warrior!

    17. Re:Never... er... always check your references by numbski · · Score: 0

      Might I also remind you that every breathing person on this planet, and quite probably every last dead person, has their own sins to account for. No one is innocent.

      That said, there's nothing spectacular about a man having sinned. Nothing at all. If we want to find a reason to toss stones at someone, you will ALWAYS find a reason. Without exception.

      What is remarkable is what this man has endured compared to most of us. That does in fact garner respect.

      I agree with you that we should vote based on policies, not based on character - to a degree - but it doesn't change the grandparent's comment regarding respect.

      I say to a degree because I think it is unreasonable to expect anyone to have a policy for every issue and contingency. You have to vote based on character as well, as you almost have to hope the contents of the candidate's character are such that they will deal with the unknowns appropriately too - not just the same age-old things that people have been fighting about, and will continue to fight about. I am so dead tired of hearing "what's your stance on abortion? gay marriage? hot button c? hot button d?

      Do those things matter? When was the last time the president had any say in those things? Well?

      *shrug*

      Too many agendas...

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    18. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That said, there's nothing spectacular about a man having sinned. Nothing at all. If we want to find a reason to toss stones at someone, you will ALWAYS find a reason. Without exception.

      What is remarkable is what this man has endured compared to most of us. That does in fact garner respect.


      The point is that you can't have it both ways. You can't simultaneously claim that his accomplishments are deserving of respect while his blunders are worthy of dismissal.

      The parent's point was that if you open the character door by saying what a great guy he is, then you also have to admit the negatives. Are his political opinions of such low merit that he can't stand on his platform?

    19. Re:Never... er... always check your references by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      Y'know, I'm not sure I agree with you on this. He's a war hero and blah blah blah, but he wants to get more exposure, particularly to people who weren't alive during that war.
      Right now, MySpace is by far the best way to get a message out to young people. If you talk to a lot of seventeen-year-olds, it's not always clear that they differentiate between "myspace" and "the internet" -- much the same way that fifty-year-olds don't really differentiate between "the web" and "the internet". To a lot of young people, myspace and similar services are the only reason they get online.
      So, if you accept the premise that by far the most cost-effective way of getting a message to lots of young people is via myspace, well, McCain sure isn't going to be setting up his own myspace, anymore than Britney Spears would. (Thomas Dolby, however, did indeed set up his own myspace page, because he understands technology.) So, a flunky does it.
      I think that's not only a reasonable course of action, it might be the *only* reasonable course of action. I haven't looked, but I assume that Barak Obama has one. At this point, it would be stupid to neglect that demographic.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    20. Re:Never... er... always check your references by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      >Since when did being in Vietnam make you presidential material?

      Like being in a fraternity, having served in the military is very, very strongly correlated with being elected president. There's a public perception that if you haven't served in the military you shouldn't be running it. To the best of my knowledge, the only President this century who wasn't in the military was Bill Clinton, although I'm not sure about Franklin Roosevelt and I'm spotty on my history of presidents before 1920. (And I think it's fair to strongly question Dubya's military experience, as being nominal and on-paper, at best.)

      I'm not saying it's right or reasonable, I'm just saying that's the way things are in the US.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    21. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Howserx · · Score: 1

      judging by your current president. Yes, the bar is pretty damn low.

      --
      I support the troops. I pay f'ing taxes.
    22. Re:Never... er... always check your references by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      And employers are legally obligated to let you leave the office to go vote any time you choose throughout the day.

      But they aren't legally obligated to pay you for that time. In a country where the net savings rate is negative, that's a significant barrier to voting.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    23. Re:Never... er... always check your references by ROMRIX · · Score: 1

      having some campaign flunky set up a myspace account to get in touch with youth is just dumb.

      or is it...
    24. Re:Never... er... always check your references by vivin · · Score: 1

      To the parent: I'd mod you up as insightful if I had the points, buddy.

      To the GP: If you're trying to get elected, then why not try and reach all potential voters? It makes sense. No need to bash the man just because he's trying to get votes. I am left of center but I definitely respect McCain because he is moderate in his views and he is a good politician.

      --
      Vivin Suresh Paliath
      http://vivin.net

      I like
    25. Re:Never... er... always check your references by bkr1_2k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which is why polls are open early and late. It's still a cop-out. Saying you can't leave work to vote because you won't get paid is as bogus as saying "it's because of my kids and my long work day". It's a non-starter because polls are specifically set up to accomodate that.

      People don't vote because they don't care enough to make the effort. In the past, I would agree, there were plenty of systemic barriers for people of minorities and of lower social standing. In some cases they can still be seen, primarily for people of lower incomes who have to use public transportation to get to polling locations and work etc.

      The majority of people however don't vote because they couldn't be bothered to get off their asses.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    26. Re:Never... er... always check your references by mjjw · · Score: 1

      Actually it does make sense. A lot of young people in the UK don't care about politics or listen to politicians. Myspace is a way for politicians to try and reach those people as a lot of them use Myspace. Maybe they can influence some younger voters, maybe they can stir up interest in politics a bit. Either way I don't think it is dumb. People watch TV so politicians have Party Political Broadcasts. Lots of people visit Myspace - it makes sense to have a presence there!

      --
      If you aren't far left by the age of 18 you have no heart. If you aren't far right by 30 you have no brain.
    27. Re:Never... er... always check your references by seriesrover · · Score: 1
      Agree with you to some degree but actually we should vote for someone on what we value most - for me voting for a leader (President\PM) thats far and away his\her character.


      A British PM once famously said when asked what he feared most, "Events my dear boy, events". A leader of a country is defined by how he\she acts and reacts to events. Don't get me wrong policies are crucial too but I think policy when voting for someone at the legislative level (Senate\House\MPs).

    28. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      You can't be serious. Voting begins at 0800 or earlier in most places, and runs until well after "normal" work hours. And employers are legally obligated to let you leave the office to go vote any time you choose throughout the day. Saying you "don't have time" to vote is just a bullshit cop-out.

      I can be serious. They have to let you go, but it's useless if you don't work partiicularly near where you live. Unfortunately, they don't let you vote just anywhere. My job begins at 0800, so that's not an option, and after work the lines are horrendously long - and I don't have the time to bail out of taking care of my kids to sit in line for 3 hours after work.

      The preferred answer is to remember to request an absentee ballot.

      Being too lazy to vote is simply that, laziness. It has nothing to do with difficulty getting to the booths because you "work 10+ hours a day and have kids to take care of when they get home".

      If you don't have 2 kids under the age of 2, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

    29. Re:Never... er... always check your references by EnvyRAM · · Score: 1

      The thing is, he WILL get votes by making a MySpace account. I imagine he has had quite a few page views even before this hotlinking debacle. Do you really think he (or someone in his camp) is clueless for creating a presence on one of the most popular websites in the country? I doubt it. That MySpace profile will give him a great amount of exposure -- even more now with all of this publicity.

    30. Re:Never... er... always check your references by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      "If you don't have 2 kids under the age of 2, you don't know what the hell you're talking about."

      So, yes I do know what I'm talking about (well used to...mine are older now). Good that I have your approval.

      You're completely correct about absentee ballots. I've done it that way in the past, and it just makes my point that much more valid. People don't vote because they're lazy, not because they can't.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    31. Re:Never... er... always check your references by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      You're completely correct about absentee ballots. I've done it that way in the past, and it just makes my point that much more valid. People don't vote because they're lazy, not because they can't.

      I'm a little less willing to call someone lazy. I have twins, they're a year old. There are days where I don't have time to take a shit, let alone remember to request an absentee ballot. I plan to do so before the 2008 election, but I forgot to do so in advance of our Senate race this past November. So in effect, you're calling me lazy, and I can tell you there you're way off on that one. I'm simply completely overwhelmed, there's a significant difference.

    32. Re:Never... er... always check your references by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      Suffice to say, we'll agree to disagree here, but if you have time to post to slashdot throughout the day, I'm guessing you can spare a few minutes to go online and request and absentee ballot. Maybe I'm wrong.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
  8. Just wandering... by Smerity · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just wandering, couldn't this be construed as fraud? Taken as an attempt to intentionally deceive people?

    Obviously I hope and doubt that anything like that would happen, but I'm just curious if John McCain tries to make an example of this - as so many politicians try to do.

    1. Re:Just wandering... by ebcdic · · Score: 4, Informative

      Intentionally deceiving people isn't fraud, and isn't illegal. Deceiving someone to gain something from them would be fraud.

    2. Re:Just wandering... by Carewolf · · Score: 5, Funny

      In fact making intentionally deceiving people illegal could have catastrophic consequences on Christmas and Easter as we know it.

    3. Re:Just wandering... by Dan+East · · Score: 1

      Just curious, but as you wander how do you access Slashdot? Public hotspots? Internet Cafés? Mobile broadband?

      I figured that other wanderers might wonder about that.

      Dan East

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    4. Re:Just wandering... by Archtech · · Score: 1

      "Just wandering, couldn't this be construed as fraud? Taken as an attempt to intentionally deceive people?"

      Intentionally deceiving people isn't fraud - it's politics.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    5. Re:Just wandering... by soft_guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Deceiving someone to gain something from them would be fraud. Sounds like pretty much every church and/or politician.
      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    6. Re:Just wandering... by CrimsonScythe · · Score: 1

      Intentionally deceiving people isn't fraud, and isn't illegal.
      In fact, it's not just legal, it's the core of politics...
      --
      The view was horrible and the smell was even worse; Julie severely regretted becoming a proctologist.
    7. Re:Just wandering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're talking about Jesus, right?

    8. Re:Just wandering... by Anonymous+Drunkard · · Score: 1

      Just wandering, couldn't this be construed as fraud? Taken as an attempt to intentionally deceive people?


      Well, this is the MySpace page of a politician. Intentional deception and politics are usually never far apart.

    9. Re:Just wandering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or G. Dub's war on Terror, war on Iraq, war on Drugs, etc. etc. etc.

    10. Re:Just wandering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For all practical purposes, the law already says that children aren't people, so it wouldn't be a problem.

    11. Re:Just wandering... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      What, you mean the end of lying about "virgin births" and people rising from the dead?

      (Well, somebody had to say it!)

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    12. Re:Just wandering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder why you are wandering so much. Are you lost?

    13. Re:Just wandering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, because Jesus isn't real?

    14. Re:Just wandering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously I hope and doubt that anything like that would happen, but I'm just curious if John McCain tries to make an example of this - as so many politicians try to do.


      Oof! Good thing the prankster ran out of boarding pass images.
  9. Could have been worse... by L4m3rthanyou · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If McCain's people know anything, they'll play it off quietly or joke about it, knowing it could have been a lot worse. A less civil person probably would have goatse'd McCain's myspace instead.

    ...which would have been goddamn hilarious, but I digress.

    --
    One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces.
    1. Re:Could have been worse... by mastergoon · · Score: 1

      Oh how I would have loved to hear them talking about goatse on the six o'clock news.

    2. Re:Could have been worse... by gfreeman · · Score: 2, Funny

      Having a photo of an unsightly asshole on a politican's webpage?

      Who'd have thunk it?

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
  10. heh? And he wants to be president? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    Why is it that no matter what you do, A myspace page doesn't look good. I'm not trying to be snobby or anything, I don't have a page, but All MySpace sights that I have seen hurt my eyes.

    This guy wasn't to be president? Isn't this like getting financial advice from someone with a hotmail address? It just doesn't seem all that encouraging. And feels kind of creepy to boot.

    1. Re:heh? And he wants to be president? by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Isn't this like getting financial advice from someone with a hotmail address?

      Yes, it is... but that is only because you're (probably) employed in IT. I had a real hard time explaining my father in law that he shouldn't be using the equivalent of aol.com (not actually, that, but from a national provider) for his business. The worst part is: he's got his own domain.

      No, he keeps using the old address. Normal people don't see the harm in such adresses.

      So, for the masses, I expect that a myspace page would be welcomed.

    2. Re:heh? And he wants to be president? by soft_guy · · Score: 1

      Why is it that no matter what you do, A myspace page doesn't look good. I'm not trying to be snobby or anything, I don't have a page, but All MySpace sights that I have seen hurt my eyes.

      This guy wasn't to be president? Isn't this like getting financial advice from someone with a hotmail address? It just doesn't seem all that encouraging. Obviously McCain is getting crappy advice. If he really wants to connect with voters, he would get a .mac email address and create his home page on geo cities. He would also spend a lot of time on IRC and create a usenet group called alt.vote.president.mccain.
      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    3. Re:heh? And he wants to be president? by pointbeing · · Score: 1

      Isn't this like getting financial advice from someone with a hotmail address?

      Although I host my own domain and have a perfectly good mail server I use a hushmail account for business correspondence. My real email address is reserved for family and friends.

      Everyone else gets either hotmail or mailinator - and I never check my hotmail account ;-)

      --
      we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
      -- anais nin
    4. Re:heh? And he wants to be president? by jpop32 · · Score: 1

      Why is it that no matter what you do, A myspace page doesn't look good. I'm not trying to be snobby or anything, I don't have a page, but All MySpace sights that I have seen hurt my eyes.

      Yes. I was just wondering about the same thing. Everytime I go to MySpace (by mistake usually), I feel like I'm transported to 1996 or so. All that's missing are blink tags for the experience to be complete. Ok, I understand why 14yr old kids think yellow text on a full-color background is a good idea. But bands, DJs, politicians... Is having a page psysically hurt your eyes really a requirement for having a MySpace page?

    5. Re:heh? And he wants to be president? by unitron · · Score: 1
      "Ok, I understand why 14yr old kids think yellow text on a full-color background is a good idea. But bands, DJs, politicians... Is having a page psysically hurt your eyes really a requirement for having a MySpace page?"

      Yes, actually, it is, but it's one of those unstated rules that only the cool kids know about.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    6. Re:heh? And he wants to be president? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously McCain is getting crappy advice. If he really wants to connect with voters, he would get a .mac email address and create his home page on geo cities. Republicans don't like homosexuals. So why would they want to use anything Apple?
  11. I for one... by edwardpickman · · Score: 5, Funny

    approve and support McCain's new and elightened postion on female marriage.

    1. Re:I for one... by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, I for one don't. I'd much rather they slept around. Variation keeps things interesting ;-)

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    2. Re:I for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nothing says they cant have an open marriage

    3. Re:I for one... by mdsolar · · Score: 1

      This joke was made pretty well in the Prarie Home Companion movie:

      The farmer had a prize bull, got 200 calves a year, the wife said "maybe you should take some lessons." The Farmer said "Yah, he's pretty good but it wasn't all with the same cow."

      Bad jokes, lord I luvem.

  12. A missed opportunity by mobby_6kl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Opportunities like this don't arises too often, Mike should have just replaced the image with hello.jpg.

    1. Re:A missed opportunity by gbobeck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think Mike did the right thing by not goatseing. Mike's image was up for roughly 2 hours. If he had goatse'd instead, most likely the image would have been removed much much sooner.

      As a side note, I am a webmaster for a few small sites. When I encounter inline image linking, I tend to replace the image with another which says "I am a Grade A Asshat. I steal bandwidth" or other suitable saying. I reserve hello.jpg for exceptional circumstances (read: someone uses my images on ebay, or some other site which really kills my bandwidth).

      --
      Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. Omnes castelli tuus nostri sunt. Ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta.
    2. Re:A missed opportunity by simm1701 · · Score: 1

      but then he would be serving that image from his server, which would open him up to all kinds of prosecution about indecent materials being displayed to minors without warning screens.

      By doing it this way he has an image on his own site which is satire, and therefore probably fair use - the fact that someone else is displaing that image themselves in a rather daft place is not his problem!!

      --
      $_="Slashdotter";$syn="OTT";s;..;;;sub _{print shift||$_};s!ash!Perl !;s=$syn=ack=i;tr+LLEd+BLAH+;_"Just Another ";_
    3. Re:A missed opportunity by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      I saw an interesting case where someone had an image hotlinked...
      He replaced it with:
      http://www.ev4.org/hotlink.jpeg

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:A missed opportunity by gbobeck · · Score: 1

      Nice. :-)

      A friend of mine uses the image from the site "www bottleguy com" (I purposely borked link for everyone's protection) for anti-inline linking purposes.

      --
      Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. Omnes castelli tuus nostri sunt. Ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta.
    5. Re:A missed opportunity by ocbwilg · · Score: 1

      I bet a lot of people do similar things to deal with hotlinking. I once had an image hosted on my server that I discovered was being hotlinked for use in someone's signature file for a web-based forum. I just changed it so instead of getting the "cool picture" that he liked so much, instead he got a black box with white text that says "I love anally raping small children." You wouldn't believe how quickly the hotlinking stopped.

    6. Re:A missed opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Bottleguy" is a Kirk Johnson aka Goatse Man image. There's actually quite a few in circulation, featuring such delights as him cranking his ass open with a vice and inserting 2 huge dildos, and at least one film (showing the goatse process in all its glory). hello.jpg is just his most famous contribution to internet culture.

    7. Re:A missed opportunity by gbobeck · · Score: 1

      "Bottleguy" is a Kirk Johnson aka Goatse Man image. There's actually quite a few in circulation, featuring such delights as him cranking his ass open with a vice and inserting 2 huge dildos, and at least one film (showing the goatse process in all its glory). hello.jpg is just his most famous contribution to internet culture.

      I am aware of that. I, as well as my friends, believe that most experienced web surfers have seen goatse before and should be exposed to new truely awful images as a means of shock via inline linked images.
      --
      Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. Omnes castelli tuus nostri sunt. Ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta.
    8. Re:A missed opportunity by P.+Niss · · Score: 1

      LINK PLEASE!

    9. Re:A missed opportunity by tkw954 · · Score: 1

      Opportunities like this don't arises too often, Mike should have just replaced the image with hello.jpg.
      Yeah, because the ideal response to someone infringing on your copyright is to infringe on someone else's.
  13. Oh, please... by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't this like getting financial advice from someone with a hotmail address?


    Oh please... Here's an idea for you: how about you turn on the brain and judge the man (or woman), not his email address or MySpace page?

    Financial advice: either you trust that guy to be a competent economist, or you don't. That's it. If someone has a Ph.D. from Harvard, who gives a rat's arse about whether he has also a Hotmail address or not.

    President: either you trust the guy enough to basically give him a hell of a lot of power, or you don't. The fact that he also has some stupid MySpace page should be the least of your worries.

    Note that in both cases we're not talking about some Anonymous Coward with a Hotmail address or MySpace page, but about someone who's known and easy to check. We're not talking "Moraelin for president" or "NightElf12345@hotmail.com offers you free financial advice", but someone who's well known, and whose credentials and opinions are known, public and damn easy to check. So how about doing just that?

    So you propose... what? That instead of actually checking and judging the person, you'd rather make some superficial meaningless criterion like their email address the top and only criterion? Would you rather take advice from the janitor because he has a more fashionable email address? Geesh...
    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Oh, please... by BlueTrin · · Score: 1

      Note that in both cases we're not talking about some Anonymous Coward with a Hotmail address or MySpace page, but about someone who's known and easy to check. We're not talking "Moraelin for president" or "NightElf12345@hotmail.com offers you free financial advice", but someone who's well known, and whose credentials and opinions are known, public and damn easy to check. So how about doing just that?

      Yeah /agree ...
      ahum ..."NightElf12345@hotmail.com offers you free financial advice" ... reminds me something
      Oh shite ... I need to call my bank to block electronic payments !
      --
      Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
    2. Re:Oh, please... by Paradigm_Complex · · Score: 1
      For the most part we can't get super-intimate with people such as Presidential Candidates or financial advisers, et al. I generically consider it wise to look at little details such as who is hosting the individual's e-mail as indications of the individual's competency. Plenty of people can make themselves seem competent without actually being so, and thus if you can't take people at face value look at the things they probably forgot to give the nice-over.

      You can't just "either trust the guy... or don't" by what he says or looks like. One can come to such decisions with those and other things, however. If you want to look at the world as black-and-white, at least look at the world as a whole.

      --
      "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
    3. Re:Oh, please... by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      In a perfect world, people wouldn't be judged upon their e-mail address or their web page; nor upon the colour of their skin, nor their clothing or hairstyle.

      The fact that businesses are allowed to set dress codes for their customers suggests we are not living in a perfect world.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    4. Re:Oh, please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought companys that made employee's conform to a dress code were bad, but they dictate what customers have to wear ?
      Now that's tough ;)

    5. Re:Oh, please... by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      So this world is imperfect. I agree.

      The only question remains what are you going to do about it? Are you going to sit there and accept it, complying by judging people in those ways? Or are you going to speak out, and work against such petty prejudices in yourself and in others?

      The world isn't perfect, but it sure as hell isn't going to change itself.

    6. Re:Oh, please... by ghoti · · Score: 1

      You can't choose the color of your skin, but you can choose to dress decently, wash your hair, and invest a though or two into your website. These are different things. What else should I judge you by, if I don't have other information? And I have to judge you when I need to decide whether to do business with you, or go somewhere else. Perfect world or not, you will always be judged. Hopefully only by the things you can do something about, but you better be aware of those things.

      --
      EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
    7. Re:Oh, please... by Holmwood · · Score: 1

      I thought companys that made employee's conform to a dress code were bad, but they dictate what customers have to wear ?

      I can't resist. You've not heard of "no shirt, no shoes, no service"?

      Back slightly on track: While I agree with the GP that a myspace page doesn't positively impress me, it's not me -- or the GP -- that the page is aimed at. Politicians who advertise during sports venues don't impress me either, but they obviously impress someone or they wouldn't be doing it.

      -Holmwood
    8. Re:Oh, please... by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      So are you saying that if they invented a pill you could take that would change the colour of your skin, then that would make it OK to have "whites only" or "blacks only" establishments? And then what if, twenty or thirty years down the line by which time it had become standard, accepted practice for establishments to enforce colour bars, it turned out that the drug had horrific side effects which -- due to a fundamental difference between humans and animals -- had never manifested during the extensive animal testing to which it had been subjected?

      Just because you can change something, doesn't mean you should change it. Discrimination on attire is still wrong.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    9. Re:Oh, please... by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

      Offtopic, but I was at a party once, where this HOT HOT HOT blonde had this hat on that read " It ain't gonna lick itself..."

      I almost died. Once from laughter, the second time from my wife.

      --
      How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
    10. Re:Oh, please... by hobbesx · · Score: 1

      Just because you can change something, doesn't mean you should change it. Discrimination on attire is still wrong.


      Behavior is something you can change, you would have no problems eating at a sandwich shop where you watched the assembly-person pick their nose while making your sandwich?

      A hiring representative for an airline should not attribute negative value to a flight attendant applicant that comes to an interview wearing wrinkled sweat-stained pajamas that smell of urine?

      A person in a business suit screaming at a McDonald's employee because they expect four slices of pickles instead of three should not be regarded as a prick?

      Not everything can be judged so simply- the post that started this thread referred to a financial advisor with a Hotmail account, along with the presidential candidate MySpace page. Both of these positions are public and offering a service. They certainly are not required to change how they choose to present themselves, however, they should be ready to accept the consequences for doing so.

      I would expect a financial advisor to treat my financial information with the highest care and security and behave in a professional manner that reflects their skill. A Hotmail address would tell me that they do not value the importance of my financial information. What if the account gets disabled, or important messages get lost? Granted, these could be problems with any mail service, but the lack of control in Hotmail's instance is certainly more acute.

      A Hotmail address should say nothing of their value as a human being, but it does go much further in echoing their values as a public front.
      --
      This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
      Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
    11. Re:Oh, please... by daigu · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but the question is about judgment. He can't figure out how to get someone to handle MySpace, and you think it is an open question on whether he can handle the Presidency - which requires making judgments about Supreme Court appointments, the Iraq War and using nuclear weapons among other things? If he can't handle the small stuff, how's he going to handle the big stuff? You think he will suddenly get good judgment when it matters?

    12. Re:Oh, please... by ahodgson · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Discrimination on attire is still wrong.

      Awesome straw man. Fortunately, shirts and shoes have been tested on humans for thousands of years and have conclusively been found not to cause horrible side effects. So put some on, already, and stop whining.

    13. Re:Oh, please... by sumdumass · · Score: 0

      Lets take it one step further, Say this same pill could allow a person to change their skin color to orange with purple dots. Does this now mean this person deserves affirmative action or special civil rights protections?

      What makes a person "who they are" goes deeper then just the color of their skin. What make a person racist does too. The fact that they can easily identify the object of their hate with one easily distinguishable characterization won't change the hate. It would just change the ability to detect it. So suggesting that using a pill to change a black person to white and then going on to suggest that it is little different the changing your cloths on their back shows some don't understand what goes on with racism or why it is bad.

    14. Re:Oh, please... by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      It's actually the easier-to-justify rights violations (such as discrimination on attire) that keep the harder-to-justify violations (such as racism, sexism and homophobia) going. If you banned "clothesism", a lot more people would be objecting to the other -isms.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    15. Re:Oh, please... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I'm not aware of any ways that a person using a no shoes no service policies could be covering their racism policies. Unless of course it is only applying to certain people. But even then, it would be obvious and breaking the law.

      I don't buy this. Unless there is something about a type of person that physically makes it impossible for that person to wear shoes or shirts or whatever. I'm not aware of it.

    16. Re:Oh, please... by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      No, you've misunderstood.

      What I mean is that dress codes keep the idea going in the public mindset that there are two kinds of people in the world, "good enough" and "not good enough", and the two can be distinguished visually. A person who has been refused entry to a nightclub for wearing the wrong sort of shoes has just been given a lesson that discrimination is socially acceptable. If that person suffers from a tendency to relieve tension by kicking out at someone lower down the hierarchy, then the next time they hear of a homophobic/racist/sexist incident, they will just think "Well, I got kicked out of Time Nightclub for wearing trainers, didn't I? Deal with it, you stupid whinging p**f/p*ki/b*tch!"

      There is a definite positive correlation between the level of violence outside a nightclub and the strictness of the dress code. Ask any plod. Zanzibar: tough dress code, stabbings, punch-ups. Rockhouse: wear whatever the f**k you like, everyone chilled out and friendly. Why? Because many of the people who go to those places have had it instilled into them that you can tell just by looking how much respect someone deserves.


      And, just so you know, my bare feet are actually cleaner than your shoes.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    17. Re:Oh, please... by sumdumass · · Score: 1
      Let me ask you, If your going into some complicated medical procedure and you have a choice between two doctors, one of which got their medical degree from some add on a matchbook cover and went to school via mail while the other did the traditional route with so many years at school, internship at a working hospital and all that. Who are you going to chose to do the procedure?

      This question is only relevant in that there are people good enough and not good enough. To pretend otherwise is dangerous. But as your nightclub-not cool enough to get in example goes, I'm not sure why some do this. I don't goto places like this and I would hate to meet a women at a place like this. Some people are really shallow and wanting to be around them will make you shallow. People draw from their experience. If there only personal experience with a black person is getting mugged, getting saved form getting mugged or being denied entry into a club then when they run across that another black person they will guage their safety and asses the situation based on that. In my experience, it was both, getting mugged and getting saved from being mugged. But you only need to get burnt by touching a hot stove once to know to check if it is hot before touching it. So this predisposition or thinking is a good thing.

      And, just so you know, my bare feet are actually cleaner than your shoes.
      I'm not sure the cleanliness is the issue. It has more to do with liability and injury. You bare feet won't hold up over that sliver of glass I missed when cleaning up the last spill. Some people have really smelly feet which is a sign of fungus or baterial infection. DO i want that all over my floor or the my patrons subjected to it? Some people have a really ugly body and going shirtless proves it. Would you be just as comfortable eating beside some 350lb mand with a hairy chest, man-boobs and no shirt? I wouldn't and i'm that guy. So then the question might be do we make a judgment call on who has a nice body or just require shirts and shoes? The least offensive is requiring clothing.

      If you insist it is an evil, I would say it is a necessary evil.
  14. At least he was civil by tehSpork · · Score: 1

    Off of the top of my head I can think of many worse things that could have been used to replace that image, at least he was civil and used a political joke instead of picking an image from a popular domain with a Christmas Island TLD. :)

  15. Actually.. by yamamushi · · Score: 5, Funny

    Thats the whole reason I would have voted for him, hot one on one chick action legalization... :)

    --
    - Aetheral Research -
    1. Re:Actually.. by Deewun · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Hot one-on-one chick action is already legal. There's no reason to believe that marriage would make it any hotter or more frequent. Probably the opposite.

  16. New twist on old stupidity by gbobeck · · Score: 4, Informative

    This story is very similar to a much older /. story from Sept. 3, 2005: Fuddruckers Called Out on Hotlinking.

    For those of you out there who don't want to RTF/.A, the children's section of the Fuddruckers website was pwned because they inline linked a flash game. The game's developer set his .htaccess file to redirect the traffic from the Fuddruckers site to a page which bashed the Fuddruckers webmaster and opened numerous popups which contained graphic pictures of slaughter houses. Making matters worse for Fuddruckers was the fact that this all occurred during the Labor Day weekend, so the content wasn't removed for a few days.

    --
    Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. Omnes castelli tuus nostri sunt. Ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta.
    1. Re:New twist on old stupidity by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Making matters worse for Fuddruckers was the fact that this all occurred during the Labor Day weekend, so the content wasn't removed for a few days. Hehe, like that infamous Dremel mooning, which happened on a Halloween weekend, and thus was allowed to stay for much longer than Dremel's PR department would have wished...

      Small correction: I am caucasian ;-)

    2. Re:New twist on old stupidity by JonXP · · Score: 1

      In that story, there was not actually hotlinking going on. It was, in fact, simply Fuddruckers linking to the page that had the flash game. This is an entirely different situation.

    3. Re:New twist on old stupidity by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      Yeah.

      Cockeyed.com's Rob Cockerham has also done it.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
  17. You mean... by taff^2 · · Score: 1

    He doesn't really support marriage between two passionate females? Well he's lost my vote!

    --
    Karma: Bad. (As in Good?)
  18. How many friends? by pev · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well he's currently got 2813 friends on myspace - If I'm not mistaken, with Diebolds help that should be just enough to take the next presidency!

    ~Pev

    1. Re:How many friends? by gbobeck · · Score: 1

      How dare you make such a false alligation such as that?

      Everyone knows that it takes 2815 friends on myspace to win the next presidency via Diebold's help.

      --
      Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. Omnes castelli tuus nostri sunt. Ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta.
    2. Re:How many friends? by JavaForPrez · · Score: 1

      Yes, but how many people on myspace are actually old enough to vote?

    3. Re:How many friends? by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      With no audit trail, _anyone_ can vote :/

  19. ABC News, Typical Mainstream Media Sensationalism by bdub1982 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ABC News has an "interesting" http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/03/mc cains_myspace.htmlarticle about this that shows mainstream media's typical sensationalist hype of things and also shows most people's lack of knowledge and general disregard of technology.

    I especially love how the opening line refers to this prank as "a new weapon in campaign digital media warfare", then the article goes on to use phrases such as "McCain didn't give him credit and Davidson sought retribution" and buzzwords like "The Internet battlefield".

    I find Mr. Rasiej's comment that "This just goes to show that the Internet is an entirely new battlefield for many of these candidates and they are going to have to develop sophisticated new responses to deal with them" very interesting, since the "sophisticated new response" to this would have been to show some creativity, design your own image, and not leach someone else's bandwidth with an image that has nothing to do with your message. McCain's incompetent Web designer couldn't even be bothered to notice that the image in question said "No requests for design help please". I don't think I'll be asking McCain or any of his peoplefor design help, especially now!

    The article also goes on to compare this incident with such things as a genuinely serious security flaw discovered in Rudy Giuliani's website and to Phil de Velis's Clinton/Obama mock political ad. And just to stir in a little more controversy, they had to add that de Velis "formerly lived with a current Obama staffer". Big deal!

    Typical mainstream media sensationalistic BS hype! Hopefully nothing bad comes of this.

  20. Re:ABC News, Typical Mainstream Media Sensationali by BlueTrin · · Score: 1

    I find this very ironics that /.-ers are criticizing a website for increasing the traffic of another one after linking to it ..

    --
    Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
  21. Step 2 by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now, when the candidate appears at froums, people should ask if he still supports his earlier announced position in favor of hot women marrying.

    That would be funny...

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  22. is Orson Welles's "deceipt " by pitu · · Score: 1


        concerning the alien invasion still legal if it happened now?

    1. Re:is Orson Welles's "deceipt " by soft_guy · · Score: 4, Informative

      The war of the world's radio broadcast had messages both before and after it stating that it was a play - not news. The problem was that some people tuned in during the middle and were extremely gullible.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    2. Re:is Orson Welles's "deceipt " by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      The problem was that some people tuned in during the middle and were extremely gullible.

      Since my move to the Midwest (and seeing all those new 'In God We Trust' license plates spread out onto the bumpers of tons and tons of cars...) I'm pretty convinced that a whole lot of the US public are gullible and prone to believe the most outlandish myths. The satanist types are MUCH more scary here, because they come from the stock of 'True Believer' Christians and they ALL believe that shit wholeheartedly.

    3. Re:is Orson Welles's "deceipt " by alexdw · · Score: 1

      Ah, so you've been to Indiana! I thought *I* was the only one who was more than a little freaked out by the sudden appearance of the "In God We Trust" licence plates.

      --
      Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow.
    4. Re:is Orson Welles's "deceipt " by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      It's surprising in Indiana that the 'Fraternal Order of the Ku Klux Klan' don't have their own license plates. Almost any organization seems to be able to get special plates. The disturbing thing about the 'God' ones is that there is no additional fee to get them. I suspect that preachers all over the state are hyping them. I can't otherwise see how so many of them have appeared so soon after they become 'allowed.'

      And why are MY tax dollars paying for these things?

      And, ummm, which God in particular do they trust? I've been wanting a bumper sticker saying that for a while, now. Problem is, my car would be defaced for having it on the back.

  23. A common issue with MySpace - and you have to act by Random+BedHead+Ed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When others leech your bandwidth you have to do this sort of thing, unfortunately. Whether you choose a joke like this, or Goatse, or a simple warning is really up to you. It's your image, after all.

    I have a lot of reasonably large JPEG images on my site (800x600), and a number of MySpace users started to incorporate them directly into their own sites without having the decency to host them themselves. This is funny, because my CC license would have allowed most of them to use the images without even asking me, and the only real problem was that these JPEGs used a lot of bandwidth because visitors to countless MySpace pages were downloading them constantly. I didn't realize any of this until my site went down due to a bandwidth quota, after which I set up a rule to hand out an alternative image. A dose of Goatse would have been completely justified (and some of my friends were pushing for it), but I decided to make a small, low-quality JPEG containing information about what bandwidth leeching is and why it's rude. (Some people haven't noticed it yet, four months later.)

  24. You mean I shouldn't have by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    Isn't this like getting financial advice from someone with a hotmail address? You mean I shouldn't have invested my pension in that Nigerian gold mine?

  25. Re:ABC News, Typical Mainstream Media Sensationali by bdub1982 · · Score: 1

    1. Linking to a site (hyperlinking) is different than feeding an image or other content from someone elses site and displaying it on yours (hotlinking).

    2. I don't recall criticizing anyone for linking (either hyper or hot) to anything, simply posting feedback and commentary on another article relating to this story.

  26. Re:ABC News, Typical Mainstream Media Sensationali by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

    The Internet battlefield also featured a recent proxy fight between the campaigns of presidential candidates Clinton and Obama.
    So they're abusing open proxy servers too? Next they'll be hijacking each others IRC channels!
    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  27. Re:ABC News, Typical Mainstream Media Sensationali by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it was not aimed at you ... I think the poster was trying to be sarcastic ...

  28. Connecting with the youth? by Looce · · Score: 1

    Connecting with the youth? And why?

    The youth are not old enough to vote.

    1. Re:Connecting with the youth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and by the time they're old enough, 77 year old McCain may be resting in peace.


      But seriously, you might be surprised at how many voting age folk have myspace accounts. I don't think it's such a bad thing that he does too, as a candidate. Nevertheless, it needs to be done in a very professional manner, studiously avoiding "talking down" or posing as a bona fide member of the myspace generation.

    2. Re:Connecting with the youth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Connecting with the youth? And why?"

      For sex.

    3. Re:Connecting with the youth? by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "The youth are not old enough to vote."

      And never will be by 2008, wait, what?

  29. Well.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it were me, it would've been tubgirl or goatse.

  30. The myspace page on google cache by soilheart · · Score: 4, Informative

    Google Cache have the version with the hotlinked picture if anyone want to see how it looked
    http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:http://www.my space.com/johnmccain

    1. Re:The myspace page on google cache by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Uh... the 'screen grab' is the original article...

    2. Re:The myspace page on google cache by Mizled · · Score: 1

      Seeing that just made my day. That's priceless. That looks really professionally done too. Haha

      --
      Bite my shiny metal ass.
  31. Re:ATTN: Windows/Linux refugees! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm using my Palm, you insensitive clod!

  32. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by Technician · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the link.. Seeing your graphic is nice. Slashdotting their site is priceless.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  33. You have a point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You might be right about the legal system. There are definitely people out there who would sue for something like this and there are certainly judges who would allow it, but I have no doubt that it would be sorted out in the end. More importantly, in this case nobody's going to sue, because that would be the end of McCain's online campaign. The people whom he's trying to reach know full well what's going on. Embedding a remote image into the site is bad enough by itself, they certainly don't want to look like they don't know what they're doing AND send out lawyers to cover it up (which would be more of "not knowing what they're doing.")

  34. The half-life of an online moon by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

    I think Mike did the right thing by not goatseing. Mike's image was up for roughly 2 hours. If he had goatse'd instead, most likely the image would have been removed much much sooner. Not really. A couple of years ago, the German TV featured a program whose plot revolved around a music pirate who was murdered. This was intended to scare would-be pirates. The web server of the TV station just happened to run on Windows, IIS, ASP and (*gasp*) sequel sewer

    Predictably, the page ended up with a big shiny moon. Surprisingly enough, the moon did stay online for a couple of hours until it finally was taken down.

    During that same year, a number of other Sql sewer shites that had the misfortune of being linked by Slashdot or other geeky sites were mooned in a similar fashion. IIRC, one gaming site was mooned early Saturday morning, and only demooned in the very late evening. So yes, even moons can survive more than a trivial amount of time.

    1. Re:The half-life of an online moon by heinousjay · · Score: 0, Troll

      Wow, they're so cool. I wish I could deface people's property when they got upset about me infringing on their rights, but I'm not cool enough.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
  35. Got a chance to gotse ... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    ... and he fumbled it. Sad.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  36. Appropriate response by Adelle · · Score: 1

    for leeching bandwidth. As for the license violation, an appropriate response would have been to send a Cease and Desist letter to MySpace.

    1. Re:Appropriate response by BillGatesLoveChild · · Score: 1

      He should have called up GoDaddy and got them to take down MySpace.com, 52 second warning and all.

  37. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    If you don't want your images embedded in other people's pages, why don't you just add alien referrer blocking to the .htaccess in your root folder?

  38. OH GREAT! THANKS ALOT! by notnAP · · Score: 2, Funny

    I still believed, you insensitive clod.

  39. Passionate about image leachers by BillGatesLoveChild · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > Here is Davidson's account of the "immaculate hack".

    That is an immaculate hack. However an even more immaculate hack is the fact we've just Slashdotted him! :-)

    1. Re:Passionate about image leachers by Bazards · · Score: 1

      They moved to new servers only a week ago too.

  40. Legalization? by tgd · · Score: 1

    How about making it mandatory as an clause attached to the 19th Amendment?

  41. Video link looks like a pacifier... by mikael · · Score: 2, Funny

    Has anyone noticed that the play button on the video link looks either like he's got a large pacifier in his mouth?

    --
    Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  42. Re:ATTN: Windows/Linux refugees! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like YOU'RE the one with a one track mind, just stick to jerking off over your Mac and leave the adults alone ok?

    Oh and I loved the prank, bloody hilarious!

  43. If he's a good politician.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ..he'll actually change his position for real and support equality for gays instead of joke callously about it while continuing to support blatant discrimination.

    1. Re:If he's a good politician.. by JudeanPeople'sFront · · Score: 1
      If he's a good politician... he'll actually change his position for real and support equality for gays instead of joke callously about it while continuing to support blatant discrimination.

      If he does that, he will lose the conservative votes and NOT gain any gay votes. Reversing your opinion on important issues is counter-productive: people will call you a Flip-Flop. See last elections...

    2. Re:If he's a good politician.. by MindStalker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But he has supported gay rights for a long time. Yes he has stated he thinks its immoral but I think drink is immoral but I don't support taking away your rights to do so. Look at his voting record he has voted against the marriage amendment and other anti gay stuff. Yea sure he isn't out campaigning for them that doesn't mean he hates them either.

    3. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Drink isn't immoral though. If I get drunk a lot, I'm only harming myself, not other people.

      Immoral things have to harm other people. But even then there are things which are immoral which should not be illegal, like adultery.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    4. Re:If he's a good politician.. by resonte · · Score: 1
      Your analogy is flawed. Homosexual love is harmless and consensual, unlike the beastialy or pedophilia. An estimation of 3-10% of the population is gay, you can't deny them the freedom to love someone else for the rest of their life.

      There is nothing wrong with a brother and sister getting married, however there is a problem with them having offspring, as genetic defects are more common. However evolution has prevented most humans from falling in love with their close kin (or any one they have grown up closely with).

      --
      \(^o^)/
    5. Re:If he's a good politician.. by inviolet · · Score: 0, Troll

      Drink isn't immoral though. If I get drunk a lot, I'm only harming myself, not other people.

      Immoral things have to harm other people. But even then there are things which are immoral which should not be illegal, like adultery.

      Odd definition of morality you have there. Morality would not apply if you were marooned alone on a desert island, then? In that desperate circumstance, how long could you survive while operating on the idea that there is no right or wrong, no good or bad, no difference between value and disvalue?

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    6. Re:If he's a good politician.. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      Your analogy is flawed. Homosexual love is harmless and consensual, unlike the beastialy or pedophilia. An estimation of 3-10% of the population is gay, you can't deny them the freedom to love someone else for the rest of their life.

      Take care not to make the mistake of assuming that orientation is a binary. Orientation is not a bit that is either 1 or 0. Rather, it's a continuum... and few of us are at the edges (100% straight or 100% gay).

      Unfortunately, Western society applies a great deal of peer pressure on us to affect 100% straightness. But nowadays that peer pressure -- designed to maximize the production of farmhands -- is obsolete. And so I wonder how all our preferences would play out if that pressure were finally lifted.

      Not to mention the asexuals, who are pushed into the same closet.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    7. Re:If he's a good politician.. by resonte · · Score: 1
      Right.

      Some people have been known to 'switch' either way. Whether this is due to social pressures or an actual change in preference is unknown.

      However observance of animals can be a good approximation of human sexuality. More communal animals tend to have a higher occurance of homosexuality/bisexuality. I think homosexuality exists in mammals because it glues the group together. In simple terms homosexuality is a group gene, rather than an individual gene. Imagine two species group A and B. In species A, homosexuality occurance is 2% in species B homosexuality occurance is 20%. In group A as the males have lesser homosexuality tendencies then they are more likely to be competitive for females and resources, thus the bonds between them are weaker. Group B has a more cooperative nature, due to the bonds between the males (and females). In a dangerous environment group B is more likely to deter off predators as they can act as a group to warn them off. Thus the survivability of Group B is higher than group A. However group A probably has a higher fertility rate, so the optimal homosexuality occurance is probably in between group A and B.

      Using this logic you would presume that the homosexual percentage in human groups would be quite high, as we are incredibly social animals. This can be evidenced by studying ancient greece, as it wasn't considered taboo, and homosexuality was quite common. Only through abrahamic religions have the actual numbers been kept artifically low.

      --
      \(^o^)/
    8. Re:If he's a good politician.. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      Have you read about the Bonobo monkey? It would be fun to be a Bonobo monkey for a while. :)

      It's good to see academia finally beginning to acknowledge the social role that homosexuality plays. For so long, sex was regarded (with religious-grade evasion) strictly as a means of procreation. The idea that Mother Nature made it a dual-purpose attribute, as nearly all other physical attributes are, was verboten.

      Boy, are we humans capable of stupendous acts of induced ignorance, or what? I'll never know how the hell I ever got hooked up with this godforsaken species.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    9. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Das+Modell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I get drunk a lot, I'm only harming myself, not other people.

      That's assuming that you don't go for a drive, beat someone up or vomit on the sidewalk.
    10. Re:If he's a good politician.. by trentblase · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was questioning his definition too, but your island hypothetical strengthens his position in my mind.

    11. Re:If he's a good politician.. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      I was questioning his definition too, but your island hypothetical strengthens his position in my mind.

      So you can eat sand then? Snakes and scorpions are harmless now? Cold and exposure have no power over you any longer, since morality has been demoted to the social realm?

      Society can protect a person from dangers and poor choices, and so morality is much weaker in social situations. On a desert island, where life and death are a daily struggle, the effects (for good or bad) of our choices are most real, most personal, and least able to be blunted by help from others.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    12. Re:If he's a good politician.. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Hold on a minute. There's a difference between morality and value (in the sense of "utility").

      Morality is a function of society, by which one is dissuaded from doing something which would be good for him but bad for society. For example, adultery: obviously it would be personally enjoyable (because otherwise it wouldn't be considered in the first place, and morals would never enter into it) and it is biologically advantageous (spreading one's genes more widely, etc.). Therefore, from the individual perspective, it's a good thing. However, society is structured around marriage, so from its perspective adultery is a bad thing.

      In contrast, "value" is absolute. For example, having food is good and not having food is bad.

      On a desert island, morality is irrelevant because there's no society around to be part of. Stuff like adultery, murder, or theft are moot because there's nobody to cheat with, kill, or steal from. Drinking (which, in society, is considered immoral because of its influence on one's actions, which affect others) is moral because one's actions can't affect anybody else.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    13. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you can eat sand then? Snakes and scorpions are harmless now? Cold and exposure have no power over you any longer, since morality has been demoted to the social realm? You're such an idiot. None of those are issues of morality. It's not ethics that keep us from eating sand, it's basic biology. Animals avoid eating sand, and they have no sense of morality.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    14. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oh really? He openly campaigned for banning gay marriage in his state of Arizona.

      http://www.azcentral.com/blogs/index.php?blog=85&t itle=mccain_is_star_of_proposition_107_tv_com&more =1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1&blogtype=Pluggedin

      Sounds like he supports taking away my rights to me. I'm sure glad to have friends like him running for president. I'd hate to see what my enemies would do.

    15. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Odd definition of morality you have there.

      Not really. Some people have even suggested that it's the only self consistent one.

      Consider you could have a less liberal (in the 19th Century sense) morality, where people are protected from harming themselves. But there are lots of things that people want to do that harm themselves, that would then be prevented, since societies tend to limit people's freedom to do things that are considered immoral. Even worse, there are things that are only subjectively harmful to individuals or only arguably harmful to society (e.g. wasting time posting on slashdot, not excercising, gay marriage, not believing in God and so on) that could be prevented. You could think of this as the mistake the evangelical Christian wing of the Republican party makes.

      Or you could have a more liberal version, where people are allowed to harm others. Someone memorably described this as "Liberals and cannibals - the liberals are free to be liberals, and the cannibals are free to be cannibals". That's unsustainable though, sooner or later ruthless people (the cannibals) will rise to the top of that society and change it into a less liberal one.

      Anyhow, it's interesting that it is ubiquitous
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity

      Morality would not apply if you were marooned alone on a desert island, then

      No, in the sense that there are no other people my behaviour would be totally selfish and amoral. But since there are no other people, that's no problem. Not that I'd do anything to harm myself unnecessarily though, even if that wasn't immoral before or after I went to the island, it isn't rational in either case either.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    16. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Drunk driving and assault are certainly immoral in my book. Not sure about the sidewalks, but it certainly seems antisocial.

      But I drinking isn't intrinsically immoral. In fact, I've worked with people who are pretty close to alcoholism who don't do anything which harms anyone else.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    17. Re:If he's a good politician.. by lorenlal · · Score: 1

      But.. Drinking is a foundation of moral behavior.

      Water to.. Wine?
      Trappist monks making beer?

      Quite tasty too if you can find it near your home. It may cost you twice as much for a drink, but you'll get 3 times the alcohol.

    18. Re:If he's a good politician.. by mdfst13 · · Score: 1

      If I get drunk a lot, I'm only harming myself, not other people.
      That's assuming that you don't go for a drive, beat someone up or vomit on the sidewalk. And that you aren't married (ok, this is /.). That no one is dependent on you. That you don't need to work the next day. That you pay for your own medical care (and no, employer provided insurance does not count--your coworkers end up paying for you) and always will (no Medicare later and no switch to employer provided insurance). So basically if you are independently wealthy to the point of being unemployed and have no dependents, then drinking is only harmful in the actions that you might take when drunk. Otherwise, drinking beyond moderation (one or two drinks a day; averaging towards one) does harm others. That's why there is a separate branch of Alcoholics Anonymous for the families of alcoholics.
    19. Re:If he's a good politician.. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      You're such an idiot. None of those are issues of morality. It's not ethics that keep us from eating sand, it's basic biology. Animals avoid eating sand, and they have no sense of morality.

      You can define 'morality' as "social rules" and 'ethics' as "survival decisionmaking" if you wish... but it'll only get you into trouble. It is far less confusing to define morality as "survival decisionmaking" and then regard society as a subset of it, since the same principles must apply therein. For example, messing with a scorpion is uselessly risky (and therefore immoral) in the very same way that spraying graffiti on your neighbor's fence is uselessly risky (and therefore immoral).

      Take up a serious philosophy text and you'll see them doing the same thing. To propose a separate code of behavior for social situations can only bring about the unanswerable problem of "What do I do when morality conflicts with ethics?". Granted, many religions do make that mistake, but only because they teach that morality is concerned with God's needs and therefore humans need a separate code in order to satisfy their own needs.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    20. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take up a serious philosophy text and you'll see them doing the same thing. To propose a separate code of behavior for social situations can only bring about the unanswerable problem of "What do I do when morality conflicts with ethics?". Granted, many religions do make that mistake, but only because they teach that morality is concerned with God's needs and therefore humans need a separate code in order to satisfy their own needs.

      Sorry, but the island example is a very bad one. Eating sand? Messing with scorpions? Not ethical or moral issues except insofar as you take your motives for doing so into account. If there is nobody else around to be impacted by your actions, then they don't have ethical or moral consequences, and therefore the example is not one that can be used to illustrate ethical or moral behavior.
    21. Re:If he's a good politician.. by vipw · · Score: 1

      Bonobos aren't monkeys. It's a type of chimpanzee and chimps have more in common with humans than monkeys.

    22. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If there's a serious philosophy text that equates "playing with scorpions is bad" in the same light as "killing your mother is bad", then there's a philosopher with his head crammed up his ass.
      There IS a difference between morality and common sense, they cover entirely different realms of human activity.

      Morality sometimes does conflict with ethics. There's nothing new or interesting about that. Changing the way you define the "morality" and "ethics" won't help you, either.

      Some people are too highly educated...others are just idiots. Which are you?

    23. Re:If he's a good politician.. by ppanon · · Score: 1

      However, society is structured around marriage, so from its perspective adultery is a bad thing.
      I totally agree with other parts of your post that seem to claim that the difference between ethics and morals is that ethics are about what is good for individuals whereas morals are what is good for society. However the morals aren't an end in themselves. Society and customs can change and adapt, what doesn't change is the underlying reasons for the customs and morals. Marriage exists for two reasons:

      a) It's a codification and enforcement of one particular reproductive strategy that helps provide a stable environment for raising kids. It makes more psychologically-balanced citizens and helps social stability as a result, as opposed to the "impregnate every woman you can" strategy that spreads its adopters' genes but generally doesn't produce as well-rounded citizens.
      b) By requiring marriage for intercourse, you limit exchange of sexual body fluids. If you don't have prophylactics, there is a whole class of diseases with decreased levels of transmission (and reduced chances of turning into a pandemic) as a result. Those diseases can decrease worker productivity, and hence are bad for society. See AIDS and Africa.

      If you don't want kids and take precautions that don't just stop pregnancy but also prevent the spread of STDs, I don't really see that as innately immoral. If you lie to your partners to get them into bed, then that's unethical. The sexual revolution and the pill were problems because they weakened a) and didn't address b)

      So due to the above, I don't really have a problem with gay marriage.
      a) The custom against sodomy is due to the spread of disease due to anal intercourse. The tissues of the colon didn't evolve to take the stresses of that activity and the resulting micro-tears provide too easy an infection path. If you didn't have any understanding of germ theory and you saw enough libertines or practitioners of anal sex dying of syphilis, you would probably think they were being punished by some supernatural entity as well. I hear it's a slow and painful way to die. So is anal sex while protected against infection still sodomy? Not in my book. It's not my cup of tea, but I don't have a problem with it if you take the right precautions.

      b) If two gays get married in an exclusive relationship then it decreases their chance of getting and passing on STDs. That's bad for society how?

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    24. Re:If he's a good politician.. by ppanon · · Score: 1

      "What do I do when morality conflicts with ethics?"

      You decide which is more important to you. The main conflicts within the US today lie between those who believe in an ethics-based interpretation of the constitution, vs. those who think "morality" is more important. Do you believe more in individual freedoms or in the good of the whole?

      And fundamentally, morality and society is more important. Even if you're so physically and intellectually gifted that you would do quite well even under the breakdown of society, you would probably still be less well off than you are now (unless you live in poverty in the third world, which is why society breaks down there so much more easily). But the religious fundamentalists are advocating a version of morality which has become partially obsolete due to advancement in technology and knowledge, so their crappy understanding of morality tends to give it an undeservedly bad reputation.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    25. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      I'll never know how the hell I ever got hooked up with this godforsaken species.

      You did something really, really wrong in a past life and are now sentenced to spend several life times on Planet Stoopid?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    26. Re:If he's a good politician.. by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Thanks I had no idea.

      As to the other commenter. Even if one believes in States rights how is actively taking away a persons liberties something even the State should do. (Sure if its done I'd prefer it on the state level because someone could move).

    27. Re:If he's a good politician.. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      You decide which is more important to you. The main conflicts within the US today lie between those who believe in an ethics-based interpretation of the constitution, vs. those who think "morality" is more important. Do you believe more in individual freedoms or in the good of the whole?

      Those 'moralists' are using the word 'morality' in a very narrow fashion: the legal enforcement of ancient religious dictates. You can accept their definition, but then you'll find yourself in need of a new word that means "the wisdom used to pursue and obtain personal happiness" -- such as is needed in a society just as much as it is needed on a desert island.

      You and others are using the word 'ethics' to refer to the latter, at least in social situations. And so you have no word at all for the wisdom that would be direly needed on a desert island. I am trying to reclaim the word 'morality' for both concepts, because they aren't fundamentally different.

      Think of it this way. You are surviving alone on a desert island. To do so you must adhere very strictly to a code of behavior that maximizes your chances of survival. Suddenly another castaway washes up. Now you've got some new options, and there may be new restraints in order to get the most out of the newcomer, but you are still in a fight to survive and find peace. You can still make the wrong choice and end up getting hurt or killed. No matter how many more castaways you add to the island, this doesn't change. And that is why I, and many philosophers, call all "How should I behave?" questions 'morality'.

      To put it another way: Adding people to the desert island example certainly adds some complications, but it can't change the actor's base standard of value ("survive for as long as possible while being as happy, safe, and comfortable as possible"). The newcomers simply complicate it, and open up new avenues of fulfillment for it. Morality, then, gets deeper, and the actor's best-path-to-goal will change, but that's all. He is still pursuing that same standard of value, and making many decisions along the way by the method that his moral code prescribes. (Some moral codes prescribe prayer and charity as the correct method; you and I would instead prescribe rationality and tit-for-tat.)

      And fundamentally, morality and society is more important. Even if you're so physically and intellectually gifted that you would do quite well even under the breakdown of society, you would probably still be less well off than you are now (unless you live in poverty in the third world, which is why society breaks down there so much more easily).

      Certainly society can be a beneficial place to live (provided that it's not a slave society). But, the actor's survival is still in his own hands, society or not; his or her decisions still help or hinder towards the ultimate goal.

      But the religious fundamentalists are advocating a version of morality which has become partially obsolete due to advancement in technology and knowledge, so their crappy understanding of morality tends to give it an undeservedly bad reputation.

      True enough. It is so bad now, honest folks like you have resorted to using a completely different word ("ethics") to describe what the original word once meant. That concession has placed you in a tug-of-war between 'morality' and 'ethics', with no way to defend your choice when a conflict between the two arises.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    28. Re:If he's a good politician.. by trianglman · · Score: 1

      Marriage, originally, had nothing to do with those two points. There were, in my understanding, a couple main reasons for monogamous relationships - separation of labor, which increases the amount of food a family can produce for their young, was the biggest one. There are many monogamous (or serially monogamous) animals that accent this, e.g. wolves, monkeys, most bird species, etc.

      Your point A never entered into is from a psychological stand point since there wasn't psychology back then. B didn't enter into it because, when the institution of marriage became popular, people thought diseases were caused by the gods. If either of those were issues, polygamy would probably not exist. Those are, however, modern concerns, and important factors. But trying to say that those are the reasons marriage exists is shortsighted at best.

      --
      Clones are people two.
    29. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "Water to.. Wine?"

      If you are talking about what Jesus did and using that as a basis for arguing drinking is somehow moral I think it needs some clarification, the bible says everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial, and specifically drinking is not immoral unless taken to excess.

      So (for example) having a glass of wine is moral in God's view, but getting plastered is not.

      Just wanted to clarify...

    30. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "Your analogy is flawed. Homosexual love is harmless and consensual, unlike the beastialy or pedophilia. " I'm confused, your saying that animals cannot consent to sex? I think this person would disagree: http://www.sexwork.com/family/dolphins1.html/
      Also he said Brothers and sisters, and children, he didn't say anything about Pedophilia...
      Are you saying that homosexual sex is OK but not sex between brother and sister, man and dolphin? What makes this distinction? Just the fact of it being consensual? What decides what is "harmful" in this context?

    31. Re:If he's a good politician.. by binford2k · · Score: 1

      You, my friend, are a moron.

      morality /mrælti, m-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[muh-ral-i-tee, maw-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
      -noun, plural -ties for 4-6.
      1. conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
      2. moral quality or character.
      3. virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
      4. a doctrine or system of morals.
      5. moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept, discourse, or utterance.
      6. morality play.

      That is the common use. If you want to redefine the term and then apply it to common usage and expect people to know what the hell you're talking about, then you are a supercilious idiot.

    32. Re:If he's a good politician.. by resonte · · Score: 1
      Hello Some_llama.

      Interesting, I didn't know people have tried to have sex with dolphins. I agree completely with your points however there is marked difference between housed pets and wild animals. I have no problem with bestiality as long as the animal isn't harmed. I think it's hard to sexually abuse an animal, as they don't tend to have a conscience and think it's wrong.

      But it is possible to violently rape an animal. In a sexual situation involving a housed pet the human has total dominance over the animal's welfare. There are less signs to know if the animal is being abused. However it is still hypocritical of society to reject sex with animals but allow murdering them.

      I never stated there was anything wrong with brother and sister having sexual intercourse for pleasure. The only problem lies when they attempt to bear a child. For the sake of the child's welfare, it is best that it gets a diverse mix of genes to prevent genetic defects.

      --
      \(^o^)/
    33. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      It is far less confusing to define morality as "survival decisionmaking" Far less confusing, but misleadingly overgeneralized. There is a huge set of things that fall under "survival decision making" that have fuck-all to do with morality. Morality and ethics are classically about "right and wrong", the duties and responsibilities of humans as sentient, self aware beings. Trying to shoehorn not eating fucking sand into the category of "morality" is utterly asinine. You've clearly read so many philosph texts that you can convince yourself of anything. Out here in the real world, however, we differentiate between ethics and biological drives.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    34. Re:If he's a good politician.. by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "But he has supported gay rights for a long time. Yes he has stated he thinks its immoral but I think drink is immoral but I don't support taking away your rights to do so. Look at his voting record he has voted against the marriage amendment and other anti gay stuff. "

      Well...you can still be gay even if you're not married..

      Where is the loss of the right to be gay you allude to?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    35. Re:If he's a good politician.. by treeves · · Score: 1
      Immoral things have to harm other people.

      I can maybe accept that definition, as long as "harm other people" is interpreted broadly enough. Getting drunk a lot harms other people. Simple case: you're a dad, and every minute you're at home you're either asleep or drunk. What are you teaching your children? Do they feel loved and accepted? etc. etc. A big mistake we make is when we act like what we do doesn't affect anyone else when in reality it does. I really think "immoral things" has to include harming yourself, unless you could justify how your value is less than everyone else's. What was the question again?

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    36. Re:If he's a good politician.. by russotto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And that you aren't married (ok, this is /.). That no one is dependent on you. That you don't need to work the next day. That you pay for your own medical care (and no, employer provided insurance does not count--your coworkers end up paying for you) and always will (no Medicare later and no switch to employer provided insurance). So basically if you are independently wealthy to the point of being unemployed and have no dependents, then drinking is only harmful in the actions that you might take when drunk. Otherwise, drinking beyond moderation (one or two drinks a day; averaging towards one) does harm others.

      The underlying premise here has nothing to do with drinking. You are asserting a moral imperative to not harm yourself, to keep yourself healthy, and furthermore to take as little risk as possible.

      It's the same reasoning which leads to cries to ban fast food and potato chips. It's a suffocating view of morality which leaves nothing in the personal sphere. And the only proper thing to do with it is to reject it utterly.

    37. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Copid · · Score: 1

      I can maybe accept that definition, as long as "harm other people" is interpreted broadly enough. Getting drunk a lot harms other people. Simple case: you're a dad, and every minute you're at home you're either asleep or drunk. What are you teaching your children? Do they feel loved and accepted? etc. etc. A big mistake we make is when we act like what we do doesn't affect anyone else when in reality it does. I really think "immoral things" has to include harming yourself, unless you could justify how your value is less than everyone else's. What was the question again?
      That's a good point, but I think it confuses cause and effect. In this case, being drunk causes the person to shirk his duties as a father. Shirking those duties is the immoral act. Similarly, shooting a person is an immoral act because it hurts or kills that person. It doesn't follow that shooting a gun is always an immoral act.
      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    38. Re:If he's a good politician.. by treeves · · Score: 1
      Hmmm. But being drunk "a lot" always causes deleterious effects, even if the drunk is in denial. You're merely arguing that the proximate cause is the immoral act, and some "more root" cause is not. I don't think one needs to be so careful in picking the cause of the harm.

      I would certainly agree that shooting a gun is not always immoral. Sometimes, NOT shooting a gun might be immoral. However, according to the parent post, shooting one's self in the head is not an immoral act. There I disagree.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    39. Re:If he's a good politician.. by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Well...you can still be gay even if you're not married..

      Where is the loss of the right to be gay you allude to?


      Some states have passed banned that literally state that no city or county in them can recognize gay marriage for any purpose including health insurance etc. Specifically targetting a group for discrimination especially when its done to please voters is wrong..plain and simple.

    40. Re:If he's a good politician.. by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Why so? Morality is a personal choice. I can think drinking alcohol is immoral and choose not to do it.. Why should I be constrained to your definition of morality? This is all assuming I'm not imposing my morallity on you of course.

    41. Re:If he's a good politician.. by ppanon · · Score: 1

      I think we're arguing two sides of the same coin on A.

      You said "There were, in my understanding, a couple main reasons for monogamous relationships - separation of labor, which increases the amount of food a family can produce for their young,"

      And I said "It's a codification and enforcement of one particular reproductive strategy that helps provide a stable environment for raising kids." Increasing the amount of food for the young is one aspect of a stable environment for raising kids. A dominant one I'll grant you, but not the only one, particularly in a society with increasing social and technological complexity.

      I'll continue, using "separation of labour" in quotes because either parent of non-mammalian offspring can care for/feed them interchangeably. The advantages of "separation of labour" for raising offspring are an evolutionary advantage for the male only if he can insure that the offspring is his. Otherwise he's wasting his energy on raising another's offspring without reproducing and any instincts for pair-bonding behaviour will not be passed on. The female's genes always win because she's always the biological mother but her offspring can only reap the advantages of the separation of labour if she can find a male willing to raise the offspring. That chance is improved if she pair-bonds as well, but the genetic feedback loop is not as strong as it is for the male's genes.

      Hence the preference for some males for a monogamous relationship and the instincts in many species to discourage or fight secondary suitors. "Pair-bonding" would seem to be a biological advantage that long predates "marriage" as a socio-religious concept. However in certain primates like the gorillas (which are dominant polygamous), you also have examples of females occasionally having secret trysts with unattached foreign males rather than the dominant male of the tribe to increase genetic diversity. You also have observations of subordinate males sometimes having non-consensual sex with females. I maintain that they are mainly different reproduction strategies and that pair bonding is just one of those, but one which has provides more benefits for society in the production of new members.

      When referring to psychological advantage, what I was referring to was the study of human nature and human behaviour. Psychology doesn't have to exist as a modern science for people to observe that children with two parents get better care and generally develop better than children with only one or no parents. Or to observe that you have a higher than average representation of single parent offspring causing trouble in a society. You also don't need to have an understanding of germ theory to see a correlation between people going mad (from syphilis) and a history of anal sex or large numbers of sexual partners.

      If the leader of a group, or someone with significant influence, makes those observations and manages to decrease the destructive behaviour, the group will prosper and the meme will spread. while pair-bonding instincts may have been at the root of marriage customs, and related reproductive advantages at the root of proscriptions against extra-marital sex, its secondary advantages for the containment of STDs would also have helped those societies and memes spread. That said, nowadays, we have much more effective methods of decreasing the propagation of STDs than the advocation of abstinence. Advocating now against prophylactics and contraception and in favour of abstinence instead is, I think, deeply ignorant and immoral.

      An interesting side question is: over the long term, does the marriage meme actually weaken the biological pair-bond imperative because it is partially replaced by social one which enforces on those without the instincts the same behaviours and benefits of those with them? Or do the instincts get stronger or remain unaffected instead?

      Anyways the real point was that the OP claimed that society was structured around marriage. I think that marriage is just one part of the me

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    42. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I think I'm talking about enforceable morality, i.e. laws here.

      Of course, getting so drunk that you neglect your kids is reprehensible, I'm just not convinced it should be illegal.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    43. Re:If he's a good politician.. by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Well I don't think that a list of survival behaviours for living on an otherwise unpopulated island with no hope of rescue really constitutes a moral framework. The only moral question in such a situation I can think of is whether you choose to keep on living as best you can, give up and die, or whether you can't make a clear decision between the two because you've lost hope but the survival instinct is too strong. After all, you can't reproduce and that's the other major instinctual imperative. Nearly all your decisions will flow from the choice to continue living or not, and from your personal tendencies and abilities for observation, deduction, knowledge retention, foresight, planning, and determination. They can only become "wrong" in the context of someone else with different abilities that would lead them to different choices given the base "moral" choice.

      But otherwise, I'll concur you're right about ethics vs. morality not really being semantically separate. I'm just looking for shorthand descriptions for the different approaches for ethical/moral behaviour in relationships between individuals vs. the advantages of a particular behaviour for a socio-cultural group as a whole in spite of its potential disadvantages for individuals within that group.

      As I said, I think that generally the benefits for the group outweigh the benefits for the few. But the answer isn't always clear cut. Something that may seem advantageous for the individual and disadvantageous for the group in the short run may be advantageous for the group in the long run. For instance allowing behaviour that leads to greater personal happiness at the expense of short term productivity may be better for the group if it avoids bouts of social unrest that waste most of the group's productivity. I think of religious-based moral systems as memetic systems and therefore assume that they have developed in a competitive environment and that they can show great insight into how to deal with some problems caused by the human condition and living in society. However they are also a product of the environment in which they developed and don't adjust well to rapid change. So while religious moralities provide useful insights into how humans and societies interact, some parts of them are no longer relevant to the conditions in a modern 21st century developed nation or even a not-so-modern 21st century undeveloped nation, other parts are applicable to the latter and not the former, and yet other parts are still applicable to all.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    44. Re:If he's a good politician.. by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Or to put it another way, morality is the intersection of desired behaviour for two replicators, the genetic replicator that is the human being, and the socio-cultural memetic replicator that is the societal memetic system. Each has different imperatives and they don't always concur.

      If my happiness depends on a functioning society, it's in my interest to have others follow behaviour that benefit me through that society. But if there's a behaviour that's beneficial for the group but bad for an individual, that individual is likely to avoid the behaviour if the personal negative repercussions are severe enough.

      It takes a high level of situational understanding and attachment to a group to be willing to suborn one's own selfish desires for the benefit of the group. Unattached young men aren't usually the best candidates for making that choice in favour of the group. Basic training in the army, for instance, involves conditioning an individual to ensure that they will follow orders that protect their group at the possible expense of their own welfare. That conditioning usually involves attacking the young men's sense of self worth and remaking it contingent on their participation in the group.

      As a last bit of food for thought, "moral" behaviour from certain individuals that benefits their group may be counterproductive for the group if other individuals in the group do it. For instance, large scale immunizations benefit a population only if there's a large fraction of the population which is immunized (>75%). However it can be harmful to individuals with abnormal immune responses to be subjected to strong frequent immunization stimuli like multi-agent immunization shots (i.e. flu shots), to the extent that it can severely exacerbate their immune disease and impair their ability to contribute to the group. Very few people have a sufficiently developed ethical understanding to be able to deal with such an apparent moral inconsistency.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    45. Re:If he's a good politician.. by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Morality in no terms should be the basis for laws. Laws should exist simply exist where they benefit the stability of society. Besides that its up to people to make their own moral code. //For example I think abortion is horrific, but in no way does it have a negative effect on society as a whole (at-least in the American version, given if we start aborting girls like you sometimes see in China that may). So therefor while I don't "respect" your right to have an abortion, I also don't agree it should in any way be in the law books. Yea.. I am strange..

    46. Re:If he's a good politician.. by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      "That is the common use. If you want to redefine the term and then apply it to common usage and expect people to know what the hell you're talking about, then you are..."

      That thought would have incurred an insightful mod point from me. It mirrored my response to his words.

      But the namecalling at the top and bottom of the post caused me to make this post describing my dilemma instead. The namecalling is only harming your argument by obscuring any valuable points through insults which generate an emotional rather than an intellectual response.

      What is the purpose of making this communication? To shame and insult the other person for gratification? You can skip the rest of the post in that event and just call him an idiot and a moron. If the purpose is to educate him, then you would be able to achieve this goal more efficiently by shedding the insults. Choosing both goals simultaneously is possible, just know that they are at odds with each other.

      If anything, I would have called him "misguided" because his reasoning did not seem idiotic nor moronic to me, just fundamentally flawed for the reason you had provided.

    47. Re:If he's a good politician.. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      As a last bit of food for thought, "moral" behaviour from certain individuals that benefits their group may be counterproductive for the group if other individuals in the group do it. For instance, large scale immunizations benefit a population only if there's a large fraction of the population which is immunized (>75%). However it can be harmful to individuals with abnormal immune responses to be subjected to strong frequent immunization stimuli like multi-agent immunization shots (i.e. flu shots), to the extent that it can severely exacerbate their immune disease and impair their ability to contribute to the group. Very few people have a sufficiently developed ethical understanding to be able to deal with such an apparent moral inconsistency.

      Ah yes, the free-rider problem. Even after bending my thoughts on it for a decade, I don't see a solution, and apparently nobody else does either.

      My sons have begun asking philosophical questions that land near it, and I wish I had a more compelling answer than "Because we feel bad about ourselves when we free-ride on others". The scarey fact is that judicious free-riding may be moral after all.... but I still hate myself when I catch myself doing it.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    48. Re:If he's a good politician.. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      Far less confusing, but misleadingly overgeneralized. There is a huge set of things that fall under "survival decision making" that have fuck-all to do with morality. Morality and ethics are classically about "right and wrong", the duties and responsibilities of humans as sentient, self aware beings. Trying to shoehorn not eating fucking sand into the category of "morality" is utterly asinine. You've clearly read so many philosph texts that you can convince yourself of anything. Out here in the real world, however, we differentiate between ethics and biological drives.

      Again I insist that there is peril in focusing the terms 'right', 'wrong', and 'morality' to the category of social obligations. It is perilous because it implies that private actions -- which affect only the actor -- are somehow exempt... and meanwhile that one's social obligations derive from something other than one's own long-range self-interest. From that latter idea can and will flow all manner of nasty political systems, all eager to cash in on the idea of causeless sacrificial duty to the state.

      That peril is avoided if social obligations are seen as a subset of a larger, self-centered 'morality'. I treat my neighbors well, in other words, because that behavior maximizes my own safety and comfort. (And yes, I know that this raises the impossible free-rider problem... which I prefer over the alternative.)

      But assuming you're right... what term would you use to describe the predicament of a guy marooned on a desert island? There are behaviors that must be urgently practiced, and others that must be urgently avoided, if he is to survive. There are also long-ranged actions that he must understake, such as storing up food for the winter. If those survival imperatives are not 'morality' or 'ethics', then what are they? And what language would you use to criticize his short-sighted decision to eat his store of seeds?

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    49. Re:If he's a good politician.. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      Well I don't think that a list of survival behaviours for living on an otherwise unpopulated island with no hope of rescue really constitutes a moral framework. The only moral question in such a situation I can think of is whether you choose to keep on living as best you can, give up and die, or whether you can't make a clear decision between the two because you've lost hope but the survival instinct is too strong. After all, you can't reproduce and that's the other major instinctual imperative. Nearly all your decisions will flow from the choice to continue living or not, and from your personal tendencies and abilities for observation, deduction, knowledge retention, foresight, planning, and determination. They can only become "wrong" in the context of someone else with different abilities that would lead them to different choices given the base "moral" choice.

      This is where we are missing each other's points, then.

      Let us assume that the maroon wants to continue living as best he can, in order to last long enough to eventually be rescued. He now has a range of options available to him: he can play in the sand all day, he can identify edible plants and attempt to cultivate them, he can begin constructing a large "HELP" message, and so on. Some of these options are better for his goal (survival and rescue) than others... and, critically, he is able to know the difference. For him to then choose the worse option is... is... is immoral?

      That's how I'm defining 'morality'. I've decided that morality means how well a person chooses within his knowledge in order to achieve his long-range goals. And so it doesn't change when other people and society enter the picture; it just gets more complex. (If I had to accept the use of the word 'ethics', I would use it to mean the subset of morality dealing with social interactions.)

      I'm not saying you are wrong. Rather, I think you are insightful and I wish we could talk in person. What I am saying here is that we have an off-by-one error.

      My argument, then, is that my meanings are more useful. They are also less perilous because they don't succumb to the idea that one's social obligations come from somewhere other than one's own long-term self-interest. To me, social obligations stem intimitely from one's long-term self-interest. For example, I refrain from murder simply because I wish to avoid the consequences.

      What do you think?

      A second point, which we should take up later, is whether it is necessary to have one's primary moral goal be a long-range contented life. You've mentioned Kant's proposal that it is not necessary, but I think I've got some traction towards the opposite conclusion.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
  44. In my day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my day you weren't a hacker unless you had a captian crunch whistle that sounded at 2600 hz, and script kiddies were people who did internet searches for unshadowed passwd files and ran dictionary attacks on them.

    Kids these days, they change the gif files and suddenly they are the hacking elite...

    1. Re:In my day... by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 5, Funny

      What do you call someone who still uses leetspeak after 2000?

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    2. Re:In my day... by stonecypher · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, as opposed to something new and inventive like an XML tagline.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    3. Re:In my day... by xdroop · · Score: 4, Funny

      What do you call someone who still uses leetspeak after 2000?
      Older than you.

      Hey -- measured in Internet Time, we're Senior Citizens now! When do we get our pensions?

      --
      you should read everything on the internet as if it had "but I'm probably talking out of my ass" appended to it.
    4. Re:In my day... by Thrip · · Score: 1

      You call them "roughly as cool as people who still think it's cleaver to in their sig."

      --
      I'm awake! The answer is BONK!
    5. Re:In my day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You might want to check the parent of the comment in question. He wasn't responding to the "LoL" comment.
      Apologies are due.

      C.

    6. Re:In my day... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Illegal? Oh come on! There isn't even a good analog for this in the world...What they should have done, if they were half intelligent, is made a copy of the image and kept it on THEIR site. What they did was just put a link on the site to a picture that someone else was hosting.

      This is a terrible design practice...Not only can your content change in unexpected ways (this was intentional, but I've seen a lot of humorous unintentional stuff happen with this sort of nonsense) but you're also ripping off the guy who's actually paying for the bandwidth to host the content, because whenever someone goes to your page, he's the one uploading the picture. Total rip off!

      In short, this is completely legitimate...The person who created, maintained, and hosted the image, changed his personal property, and you think that should be illegal?? If the author of the original stuff hadn't put his content out there to be used by other people, McCain's people could have been up for a breach of copyright.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    7. Re:In my day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, but I do know that I call someone karma-riding the top post trying to belittle someone (with a very low slashdot serial number, I might add)

      I love how people actually think that silly number measures worth in any conceivable way, whatsoever. Unless you have some conversation starter (like 31337 or below a triple digit), you're blowing smoke out of bodily orifices.

      Sincerely: reader since ~1999, 1mil+ "worthiness tag." I guess I missed THAT boat, eh? *rolls eyes*
    8. Re:In my day... by bidule · · Score: 1

      What do you call someone who still uses leetspeak after 2000?

      You call them people living in the past, 670 years in the past.

      "Thirteen thirty seven called, and they want their idioms back."
      --
      ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
    9. Re:In my day... by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      They still are.
      His terms of use required credit for the design. They are not giving him credit, thus they can be sued for (c) violation.
      He's already said he doesn't really care, so now he likely can't sue, but all the same...
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    10. Re:In my day... by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

      Damn I wish I had mod points right now. Thanks for the chuckle. :)

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    11. Re:In my day... by rk · · Score: 1

      Same thing you called them before 2000: Lame.

    12. Re:In my day... by PalmKiller · · Score: 2, Funny

      So sorry, the government drew too much social security money out to fund the war on terror. You will have to wait until you are 107 years of age to benefit from your contributions.

    13. Re:In my day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      313373?

    14. Re:In my day... by I_Love_Pocky! · · Score: 1

      Sorry to break it to you, but there was never a time when "leetspeak" was actually cool. I'm guessing 2000 must have been when you were finally old enough to realize it.

    15. Re:In my day... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      ...thus they can be sued for (c) violation.
      He's already said he doesn't really care, so now he likely can't sue... For the million-and-oneth time, failure to defend only affects trademarks. In the absence of definitive written license (i.e. more than a blog entry saying "I don't really care..."), copyright infringement is still copyright infringement.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    16. Re:In my day... by cduffy · · Score: 1

      The parent is not necessarily confusing copyright and trademark law. I could see a defense based on some form of reliance-based estoppel, for instance.

  45. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by Tim+C · · Score: 1

    A friend of mine at work had a similar problem; some guy was linking to images on his site, claiming that he'd taken the photos. Unfortunately for him, we're programmers at a web agency...

    One of the designers knocked up a quick image of a stick figure man holding up a placard, saying something like "I'm a bandwidth stealing arsehole!" on it, and my mate set up the appropriate rules to have it served in place of the image that had been deep-linked to.

  46. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Presumably Slashdotting not only their site but also the GPs own! Better still!

  47. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by ThosLives · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've got to believe there's a better way to serve pictures so that they are only viewable from the appropriate website than a straight http request for the image file. That is how to prevent people from hotlinking, not changing a file so they get something unwanted from their link (because that doesn't prevent them from hotlinking, does it? What if they just hotlink on purpose to the image but set it off-screen or something so it doesn't display but is still fetched just to use your bandwidth out of spite?).

    How about trying to solve the actual problem rather than addressing the symptoms?

    --
    "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
  48. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by kirun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I have one myspace user that hasn't yet noticed how much I improved(flashing image warning) their background - any image leeched from that folder also doubles as a page widener for the benefit of forum readers. Elsewhere, I had one image hotlinked from so many forums, I changed the filenames, and added a note to the page specifically asking people to host elsewhere. That didn't work, so I made a custom job which nicely fits with the style of most forums. Next, it seems game screenshots were being borrowed, so another switch (scroll down to EMMA-LATION) was required. Finally, a picture of Maggie Thatcher was hotlinked, so it was swapped(flashing image again) a bit as well.

    --
    I'm scared of numbers that can't be written as a fraction. It's an irrational fear.
  49. Speaking of taking a bandwidth hit... by The+Fun+Guy · · Score: 1

    Welcome, Slashdot user! Your number is:

    #1927465037863

    Now serving:

    #23740

    We will be with you shortly!

    --
    The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
  50. Re:Got a chance to gotse ... by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 1

    I can't believe you used a football reference in regards to Goatse, and it wasn't "wide receiver."

  51. Yahoo! by xtracto · · Score: 1

    It is good that the tooth fairy wont get hurt!

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  52. How's that bandwidth looking NOW, Mike? by elrous0 · · Score: 2
    Am I the only one who finds it amusing that he was complaining about bandwidth usage, and now his prank just got him /.ed?

    Not that it wasn't a great prank.

    Of course, I don't think it fooled anyone. No one would believe that McCain would take such a brave and principled stand anymore. Everyone knows that McCain left behind every shred of integrity after 2000. Now, if you had put up a picture of George Bush's dick in his mouth, now THAT would have been believable.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  53. leeching revenge... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have seen this happen on my sites and it is extremely annoying. One image, a beautiful shot of fireworks, was heavily leeched around New Year's by dozens of sites, mostly blogs. (It happened to come up on the first page of results in a search for "fireworks" on images.google.com, making it easy prey.)

    So, I simply renamed the file to fireworks2.jpg and recoded my site to pull the renamed file. Oh, yeah, I then promptly replaced the original file, fireworks.jpg, with the biggest image of steaming dog shit I could find.

  54. Re:Got a chance to gotse ... by KingKiki217 · · Score: 1

    It's a shame there's no (+1, scary) moderation. And also that I don't have any mod points.

  55. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Witness the power of mod_rewrite.

  56. Aww Man... by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    Every time I read something that would make me want to vote for McCain it turns out to be a hoax. Like all that stuff someone said he said about the religious right in the last election when in fact he's so far up the religious right's ass he can see Bush's feet. Or all that stuff they say he said about corruption when in fact he's buddy-buddy with an administration that makes the Nixon white house look like a bunch of amateurs. And now this. Now I'm all for gay marriage. If I were in charge of things I'd make it mandatory. Especially between really hot women. However, being willing to just allow it would be a step down that road and you have to take these things one step at a time. So I guess I'm just going to have to keep voting for Democrats until gay marriage is mandatory in all 50 states!

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  57. Indeed by jefu · · Score: 1

    We should do well to remember that McCain is a powerful senator and is (at least) in the running for president. Given the delight with which the media loves to change a small problem into a "crisis", and given the ability of attention-seeking politicians to take such crises and make them into world-shaking problems that Must Be Solved, we might be looking forward to legislation in the matter - or some kind of presidentially ordered "regulation". Given the way the Congress works, I can easily see some nice Democrat who owes McCain a favor sponsoring the legislation - just so it doesn't look like McCain is doing it himself - given enough support he could even vote against it. After all, it would probably benefit all politicians.

    It is probably best that Davidson did not use goatse (or anything similar) as that would have just intensified the pressure.

  58. Backfire... if someone pulls the trigger by abb3w · · Score: 1

    How long until Mr Davidson gets prosecuted by some lawyer working for McCain who hasn't realised that laughing along with the joke is a lot more dignified than litigation?

    Even if McCain's team would be so politically stupid as to try such a lawsuit during what is evidently (but depressingly) the 2008 presidential campaign season, and even if they could find a lawyer stupid enough to help them, no doubt Mr. Davidson can find a not-so-stupid lawyer to file a countersuit, claiming that every instance where McCain's page loaded the image was a violation of the template terms of use, and thus a copyright violation... which, in turn, might bring his stance on copyright into political focus, where he faces the horrible choices of (a) pissing off the **AA copyright-holding consortia with their lovely financial campaign contributions, (b) pissing off the copyright-violating unwashed masses with their ever so important votes, or (c) coming up with a solution to the problem of balancing the interests of these two rapaciously greedy sides in the copyright wars that will prove universally acclaimed.

    If he can manage (c), he is the reincarnation of King Solomon, and for his wisdom deserves to win the nomination and election uncontested; solving the Iraq mess, the impending US energy Crisis, and the US Left-Right political divide will be trivial challenges for such a man. However, I don't think that will be the case (and I still won't vote Republican even then; blame Tricky Dick and Shrubbery Junior). Choices (a) and (b) remaining, this leaves a lose-lose situation. Even without the fabled Wisdom of Solomon, I think his team has enough political savvy to avoid being that stupid. Most ex-soldiers turned politician have the sense not to start unnecessary wars.

    --
    //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
  59. Firefox 1.5.0.10 on Dapper, too by pestie · · Score: 1

    The image killed Firefox 1.5.0.10 on Ubuntu Dapper, too. I saved a copy for... uh... "future reference."

  60. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 1

    Yeah, its trivil to configure apache to only service files if the $HTTP_REFERRER is an authorized site. You can also do this to serve the correct image for authorized pages, and to serve something else to unauthorized ones. The point is to drive a message home to people who make web pages, to NOT put images on their page that are hosted on a server that isnt theirs. Serving low-bandwidth images which help to convey this message is one way of doing that.

  61. Re:ABC News, Typical Mainstream Media Sensationali by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I like the comments section on the ABC news article. I was thinking of adding something about how

    this just proves that the elite dragoons of the ultra-left are marching toward takeover of decent, hardworking Americans and installing Welfare Queens as the new royalty, while politically correct thought police lurk in wait to aid the terrists in their subversive mission to ...


    oh, i can't keep going ...
  62. Hey Everyone, Pitch In! by carrier+lost · · Score: 3, Funny
    my bandwidth is being used to deliver part of the page! Bad McCain!

    Well, how about a few thousand slashdot visitors? Will that help?

    MjM

  63. Your analogy is wrong. by BobBoring · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's like someone driving through your property every day -- that still doesn't give you the right to paint slogans and ridicule on the trespassing cars as they pass.

    No, they were not 'driving through' they were stealing. Every time someone hit McCaine's site the images were pulled from Davidson's site's server. It was just as if they had Mr. Davison's phone card numbers and were making long distance calls on his phone bill. IF you only understand cars then, "It was just as if they were jumping in Mr. Davidson's car and driving it around Mr. Davision's property every day". Does not Mr. Davidson have the right to paint "slogans and ridicule" on his very own privately held vehicle?

    Davidson has the right to change the content on his server any time he chooses. He could have just renamed or deleted the image files and left McCaine with a bunch of red X's on the McCaine site. As other contributors have suggested Mr. Davidson could have chosen other even less friendly images to host on Mr. Davidson's very own privately held server using services for which Mr. Davidson is paying.

    1. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know what, it's not like a car. It's not like a boat. It's not like a sock. It's not like a mountain dew bottle.

      You know what it is like? Someone had image image tags, which were references to a remote server, instead of a local server.

      It is what it is.

      ac

    2. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by mjjw · · Score: 1

      I'm not from the US, but can he potentially be sued for this?

      I would have thought it is HIS site so why should he care who is linking to HIS images ... but I also know that the law does not always lean on the side of common sense.

      --
      If you aren't far left by the age of 18 you have no heart. If you aren't far right by 30 you have no brain.
    3. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by The+Warlock · · Score: 1

      In the US, anybody can be sued for anything, of course. The question is, "does the plaintiff have a case?" And there's no way in hell McCain would have a case.

      Unless you're talking about the other direction (McCain as defendant for stealing bandwidth), which is currently a debated and unresolved issue, as far as I know.

      (disclaimer: I am not a lawyer)

      --
      I've upped my standards, so up yours.
    4. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by neurojab · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Davidson has the right to change the content on his server any time he chooses. He could have just renamed or deleted the image files and left McCaine with a bunch of red X's on the McCaine site. As other contributors have suggested Mr. Davidson could have chosen other even less friendly images to host on Mr. Davidson's very own privately held server using services for which Mr. Davidson is paying.

      While there is a certain amount of vigilante justice to that (and I'd be sorely tempted to do the same thing in his shoes) Davidson is probably going to be in legal trouble for this. You see, tort law is all about intent. It will be difficult to prove malicious intent on McCaine's part in this (his web guy was probably too dumb to realize that wasn't hosting the image himself). On the other hand, it would be easy to prove malicious intent on Davidson's part. The intent is what would probably skew the case in McCaine's favor. If I were the judge, Davidson would win, but there's a reason they don't put me on the bench :)

    5. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      It's not a big truck!

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    6. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by pluther · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hm. Since the image was on his own server, he can't be charged with any kind of computer hacking crimes. Though I suppose it is possible for McCaine to sue for defamation or some such. Davidson *did* change the image with the intent of making it seem like McCaine was endorsing a position he does not endorse. Malicious intent may not be that easy to prove, though. It's obviously a joke, not a serious attempt to fool anyone. Any lawsuit would hinge on the plaintiff trying to prove that McCaine's followers really are stupid enough to believe that it was legitimate. Fox news failed at this strategy when they sued Al Franken for his "Lies and the Lying Liars..." book, and they had a much better case.

      However, Davidson also has a good basis for a counter-suit. McCaine's site did steal his bandwidth and use his templates without giving credit, both of which are clearly spelled out as against the terms of service for using the template.

      --
      If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
    7. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by Asic+Eng · · Score: 1
      While there is a certain amount of vigilante justice to that (and I'd be sorely tempted to do the same thing in his shoes) Davidson is probably going to be in legal trouble for this.

      I don't like McCain politically, but I seriously doubt he'll do something a stupid as suing this guy. I don't think he wants a reputation as a humourless twit.

      With all the car analogies, I'd like to supply my own: it's like ... a joke - laugh.

    8. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by Dragon+By+Proxy · · Score: 1

      It's not a big truck!
      Especially one that you can just... Dump stuff on.
    9. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by XnavxeMiyyep · · Score: 0

      You know what it is like?

      It's like a series of tubes. It's not a dump truck!

      --
      I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
    10. Re:Your analogy is wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they were not 'driving through' they were stealing. Every time someone hit McCaine's site the images were pulled from Davidson's site's server. It was just as if they had Mr. Davison's phone card numbers and were making long distance calls on his phone bill.

      The other child post gets it right. It's not "like" anything; it is what it is.

      However, I'm very tired of people seeing something they don't like on the Internet and calling it stealing. Like copyright infringement.

      In some situations, it may be wrong to forward all of your telephone calls to someone else's 1-800 number. It may also be illegal. But it is not stealing. Stealing means taking an object from another person against their will.

      Incidentally, forwarding all of your telephone calls to someone else's 1-800 number is not what happened with McCain's site, even though there are parallels.

  64. Better car analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you know someone is borrowing your car without permission everyday, and you rigged up a sign in the back window that would light up when this other person was driving, then that would be similar to this case.

  65. Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Feisty by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    ...became unresponsive, but it did respond to a quit request (generated by clicking the close gadget on the window.)

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  66. Works in Safari by Siker · · Score: 1

    It works in Safari 2.0.4, but it's not very interesting to look at. :)

  67. STOP MESSING WITH OUR USERBOXES!!! by drini · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Stop messign with our userboxes! We'll desysop you!
    I repeat don't mess with our templates!
    I'm reporting you to WP:ANI, WP:RFC, WP:AN, WP:VP for breaking WP:AGF, WP:DICK and you'll be desysopped really soon.

    You're gonna be so sorry...

    --
    Math is the weapon!!
  68. Poly ticks by MS-06FZ · · Score: 1

    Yep, I guess he's trying to protect the rights of individual states to deny its citizens' personal liberties, rather than supporting this denial at the federal level.

    --
    ---GEC
    I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
    1. Re:Poly ticks by The+Warlock · · Score: 1

      I thought that was right in line with the old-school Republican party platform?

      --
      I've upped my standards, so up yours.
  69. Wandering way OT... by nobody69 · · Score: 1

    'Not sure about the sidewalks, but it certainly seems antisocial.'

    If you barf on your own sidewalk, fine, but stay away from mine, or the ones my taxes help pay for, thanks.

    --
    "Bugger this, I want a better world." - Jenny Sparks
  70. This guy surely isn't for real? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This McCain can't seriously expect to be elected. He looks and sounds like some kind of right wing religious lunatic. The whole page looks like a hoax. If you were running for president of america, you wouldn't publish extremist garbage like this.

  71. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by Technician · · Score: 1

    Presumably Slashdotting not only their site but also the GPs own! Better still!

    The graphic is small and low res. A slashdotting for that small piece of data should only be a small dent.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  72. He is sucking up to American Talibans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He is sucking up to American Talibans like Fallwell and Robertson hoping to get the votes of their flock

  73. Missing Option on Ballot by onkelonkel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Having seen the candidates last time around (They say, in America anyone can become president. - Well, that's certainly true), I suspect a lot of folks don't vote because of the missing option on the ballot - "NONE OF THE ABOVE"

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  74. Crashed Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Crahed on my computer

  75. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mod parent up! Funny and relevant.

  76. oh boy, I clicked it by johncadengo · · Score: 1

    I clicked it fully expecting my browser to crash.

    What I got instead was this: "The image 'http://www.danamania.com/temp/dontloadthis.jpg' cannot be displayed, because it contains errors."

    The header on my firefox browser said "20000x20000 pixels scaled 2%"

    --
    My page.
  77. Morality, Ethics, and Practical Reason by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

    As a philosophy student, I'd say that you are the one with the uncommon conception of morality. (By which I mean only "you seem to understand the word 'morality' differently than most people do"; not "the things you approve of are immoral" or anything like that). Ethics is the study of systems of morality, of right and wrong, ought and ought not. Morality (and thus ethics) by it's nature concerns social behavior. There are still things which are good for you and bad for you outside of the realm of morality/ethics - eating sand, playing with scorpions, and excessive drinking and gambling being amongst them - but that doesn't make them immoral or unethical. Eating fast food is bad for you, but it's not immoral. Not exercising enough is bad for you, but it's not immoral. The list goes on and on.

    Now, you can argue that the converse is true: that morality and ethics ultimately reduce to practical considerations of what's good and bad for you (your survival, your happiness, your reproductive fitness, whatever), and I think there's a few good arguments that could be made in that vein. But that still doesn't make everything that's "good" or "bad" in such a practical sense also "moral" or "immoral", or "ethical" or "unethical".

    Maybe all moral/ethical issues are really just practical issues, but even so, that doesn't make all practical issues into moral/ethical issues. A lot of the problems with religious notions of "morality" arise from this conception. Yes, lots of promiscuous sex and eating a lot and drinking tons of alcohol and gambling is probably going to be bad for you. That doesn't make it immoral in the way that theft or assault or dumping toxic waste down river is. The latter things affect other people and are thus social, ethical, moral concerns. The former things concern only yourself and thus, while you shouldn't do them just as a simple matter of practical reason, such self-regarding acts are beyond the scope of morality or ethics.

    --
    -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
    "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    1. Re:Morality, Ethics, and Practical Reason by inviolet · · Score: 1

      Well said. But:

      The former things concern only yourself and thus, while you shouldn't do them just as a simple matter of practical reason, such self-regarding acts are beyond the scope of morality or ethics.

      If you use the word 'should' in a sentence, then it's a moral issue.

      If you define morality as being unconcerned with practical decisions, then you need another word, and another code with a presumably different standard of value, to guide those practical decisions. In other words, why shouldn't I do such things? They are impractical according to which ultimate goal?

      "A matter of practical reason" is not an answer, because it assumes that the moral question of "what should we pursue and by what means shall we obtain it?" has already been decided. But that decision is exactly the definition of 'morality' (at least as used by me). That definition subsumes the social realm, being as it is a place among others in which humans must make survival decisions.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    2. Re:Morality, Ethics, and Practical Reason by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      f you use the word 'should' in a sentence, then it's a moral issue.

      If you define morality as being unconcerned with practical decisions, then you need another word, and another code with a presumably different standard of value, to guide those practical decisions. In other words, why shouldn't I do such things? They are impractical according to which ultimate goal?


      The lack of an absolute, universal goal is what makes them not moral issues. To say you "shouldn't" do such things is in this sense just to say that they are detrimental to your happiness/survival/reproductive fitness/etc. You may value such things, and I assume you do, and so by saying you shouldn't do them I'm just advising you that they are counterproductive to what I presume are your goals. But those aren't my necessarily my goals - I may not care whether or not you're happy or alive or whatever (though as a matter of fact I do).

      Imagine I say "I want eat a Big Mac", and then you say "then you should go to McDonalds". You're not telling me that I ought to eat a Big Mac, or even that I ought to go to McDonalds, in any moral sense - just that going to McDonalds is conducive to eating a Big Mac. There are some things we presume everybody wants, like happiness and survival, and so we unqualifiedly say "you should do X", meaning that X is conducive to happiness/survival/etc, which we presume everybody wants. But that doesn't necessarily imply that we're saying "you ought to be happy" or "you ought to survive" - that's up to you, though we generally assume that you want such things. If you're familiar with Kant, they're hypothetical imperatives, not categorical ones. Morality is concerned with categorical imperatives: things that you always necessarily ought or ought not to do, regardless of what you want. And categorical imperatives are generally understood as only regarding things which affect other people - if it affects only you, it's entirely up to you whether you do it or not. That is, it depends on what you want; it's merely hypothetically imperative.

      "You shouldn't eat sand, play with scorpions, or drink or gamble a lot" are hypothetical imperatives assuming that you want to live a long healthy life. But if you don't, that's your choice - you're under no duty to stay alive. So nobody else can tell you that you morally ought not to do those things categorically, regardless of what you want. There can merely warn you of their consequences; and if you're fine with those consequences, that's your choice.

      I suppose you could say, perhaps, that you have a duty to live and be happy, whether you want to or not. In which case things affecting your survival and happiness would be moral issues. But I would disagree with that premise. Whether you live, happily or not, is up to you.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    3. Re:Morality, Ethics, and Practical Reason by honkycat · · Score: 1

      Trying to define morality as you are doing takes all the meaning out of it. Your approach makes any prescriptive statement a moral one, but it does not match with what people mean when they say it. Not every prescription that has a moral basis is itself a moral prescription. Here, that basis is the assumption that one is interested in self-preservation. Sure, whether that is a laudable interest is a moral question. However, once you take that goal as a basis, statements about what you should do to further that goal can be completely amoral.

      To use the example of the day, "you should not eat sand," usully means, "if you want to preserve your health, you should not eat sand." The latter statement is clearly amoral, and that is what the utterer of the former usually means. As evidence of this, consider how one might normally argue with it. Would one argue that one should eat sand because we are all sinners and should bring harm to ourselves as penance or would one argue something about how sand is mostly inert and therefore not actually a harmful addition, in moderation, to an otherwise balanced diet?

      Sure, you can talk about the morality of the basis (and we often do, say, for sex or drugs), but it is far from automatic that a discussion is really a stealthy moral one.

  78. And furthermore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You know what, it's not like a car.

    Correct. Material possessions are an ill-fitting metaphor for most of the common elements in today's information landscape.

    However, people will continue to use them, and there is a very important reason for this. According to the observations and models of Cognitive Science, the vast majority of conscious thought is metaphorical. Ultimately, humans tend to understand their world by relating their experiences back to a smallish set of "base concepts."

    Base concepts arise within a human mind as a combination of genetics and experience. The lengthy process of evolution has resulted in brains that are more-or-less hard wired to understand their environments in terms of a basic set of operating principles. Examples would include distance, movement, impermeability (the *bonk* factor of material objects), permanence (it stays there even when I don't see it), consumption, and so on.

    Humans are not born instantly knowing these things. They are born with brains that are predisposed to figure these things out as a result of the normal experiences that it has while growing up. Once in place, this set of base concepts serves as the foundation for all future learning and all future interpretation of what one encounters.

    The problem we face is that information does not map very well at all to any of the base concepts that the human brain is predisposed to learn. Humans will still attempt to understand information in terms of this basic set, because that is simply how the human brain works...but the understanding that results from such metaphors will always be unisomorphic and problematic.

    On the upside, the human brain is the single most adaptable of organs in the known universe. At any stage in one's life it remains possible to form new base concepts, even ones for which the brain was not evolutionarily predisposed. It simply becomes more difficult as the brain ages.

    Computer geeks tend to be people who are adapt at the formation of new base concepts, and also people who have grown up in environments which provide a lot of exposure to the modern information landscape (thus providing an environment that naturally prompts the formation of such base concepts at an early age).

    Thus, conclusions about information management, and about the moral/legal value of the sorts of actions one can take within this landscape, often seem very obvious to people who have a good set of base concepts. Such people naturally grow weary of the ill-fitting metaphors like the ones given above. However, the onus is upon us to understand the cognitive limitations with which other people are operating, and to construct metaphors that ARE isomorphic to the reality, and that give an accurate framework from which to make moral/legal evaluations.

    The biggest problem we face, IMO, is the fact that most of the controlling powers of the modern world are not operating from a good set of base concepts (in the information realm, at least). Thus, they are making bad business decisions, bad legal decisions, and passing laws that make no sense and cause a great deal of confusion, hardship, and misplaced expense. I am not sure what to do about the situation, but simply expecting the uninitiated to figure it out on their own is a plan doomed to failure.

  79. Slashdotting as DDOS by UberQwerty · · Score: 1

    He's really really slashdotted. In fact, I think he may have the wrong idea about the slashdotting. He thinks he's under a DDOS attack. From his site as of 3:00pm eastern on 3/28/2007:

    Dear Beloved Newsvine Users,

    We are currently experiencing a possible Distributed Denial of Service Attack (DDOS), possibly in connection with the John McCain MySpace prank on Monday. We do not suspect the McCain camp has anything to do with this, and Newsvine will be back in service as soon as things are under control. Hopefully within minutes.

    Apologies for the outage,

    The Newsvine Team

    --


    PUBLIC SPLIT ON WHETHER BUSH IS A DIVIDER -CNN scrolling banner, 10/15/2004
  80. Is it just me? by blackjackshellac · · Score: 1

    Or are myspace pages fscking ugly and unreadable? That is an atrocity.

    --
    Salut,

    Jacques

  81. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by qzulla · · Score: 1

    WOW! If that is what uga is teaching as an acceptable page the net is in deep trouble.

    My eyes are still burning.

    qz

  82. Re:ABC News, Typical Mainstream Media Sensationali by Jonathan_S · · Score: 2, Funny

    McCain's incompetent Web designer couldn't even be bothered to notice that the image in question said "No requests for design help please".
    If you'd RTFA (yes, yeas, I know this is /.) you'd have seen that the only person who would see "No requests for design help please" was Mike Davidson because it was in his web cache. Everyone else saw the 'normal' link picture.

    Ignoring web caches, only Davidson's myspace page would display the version w/ "No requests for design help please" and anyone who leached from his server would get the version w/o it.
  83. Re:ABC News, Typical Mainstream Media Sensationali by pjp6259 · · Score: 1

    McCain's incompetent Web designer couldn't even be bothered to notice that the image in question said "No requests for design help please".
    Actually TFA states that the newsvine guy uses a .htacess to serve up a different version of the image to anyone who hotlinks. The only reason the 'no requests for design help' showed up was because he had the image in his browser cache when he visited the site. Anyone who didn't have that version in cache would see a version of the image without the 'no requests...' line.

    --
    Computers don't make mistakes. What they do, they do on purpose.
  84. a hack != hacking ; dictionary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a difference between the noun "a hack" and the verb "to hack"...

    This is definitely "a hack" (n.), and a tasteful one, too.

    It is also definitely not a case of "hacking" (v.).

    It amazes me that even the slashbots are having knee-jerk reactions in line with the media terminology that they so often have criticized in the past, rather than appreciating their own cultural and terminological heritage.

  85. Re: Having it three or more ways!? by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Why hasn't anyone brought the Copyright tricks into this?

    "Considering that putting a link on the internet does not restrict who can use it, it really is a broadcast, so that means that anyone can use it.

    Unless you put the images behind an https link or something else that requires authorization, the entire point of the 'net is "available to all". " ... So we can put songs that we purchased onto our website, where it is available to all, right? Oh wait. So is an image that you own now different from a song that you own? (Purchased at standard retail.)

    How is McCain's "borrowing/other" the image that wasn't his, different from users "borrowing" songs?

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  86. That's a different point by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    That however is an entirely different point from being unfashionable and indeed unfit for merely _having_ a MySpace page. If you want to question his competence in getting something done, sure, that's a very valid concern. Please do continue that line of thought. But deciding that someone's even trying with MySpace automatically makes him a loser, is already in the realm of the brain-damaged.

    And I'll point you to the financial-analyst-with-a-hotmail-address example he's used. We're not talking someone who's, say, too stupid to even figure out how to use Hotmail. The point was that merely using Hotmail makes someone automatically too unreliable (or maybe too unfashionable) to get advice from. You know, without any further consideration for what their qualifications may be, or even whether he's using that Hotmail address well. That's it. Hotmail address ==> don't trust that guy.

    I'm sorry, but that's on par with phrenology, astrology and palm reading.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:That's a different point by daigu · · Score: 1

      I agree it is a different point - although I do think there is something....disingenious...about the existence of a John McCain MySpace page that I would worry about as well. As you say though, in the grand scheme of things, it is a rather minor detail.

  87. Logical Conclusion: by kakur · · Score: 0, Troll

    Fact 1: All Myspace users are either pedophiles or jailbait.
    Fact 2: Most politicians have Myspace pages.
    Fact 3: Most politicians sure aren't jailbait.

    Conclusion: Most politicians are pedophiles.

  88. This Part Cracks Me up!!! by saxoholic · · Score: 1

    So we want credit for decentralized decision-making.
    So basically that document disproved that point entirely, ever byte of information that leaves that company is extremely pointed and centralized.
  89. Wallpaper anyone ? by Dacelo+Gigas · · Score: 1
    I mean real wallpaper, as in imagine this image as a 5ft x 5ft (at 300 dots per inch) pattern for your living room. So, who does custom wallpaper ?

    Dacelo Gigas

  90. Discrimination runs much deeper than mere benefits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure I've got the right to be gay (somewhat, though I can still be fired from just about anywhere simply for BEING gay, and I can't be gay in the military either), but despite living in the same house with the same partner for several years, pretty much essentially married, do I.. ..have the right to visit my loved one in the hospital if something happens to him? Make important medical decisions about his treatment? Nope. I'm not next of kin. Maybe if I spend hundreds of dollars on a lawyer, draft up power of attorney documents, AND carry them around with me 24/7. Then MAYBE, but even then it may not be recognized. Some hospitals are enlightened about this sort of thing, but it is by no means my legal right at the moment. ..have the right to inherit my loved one's property? Sure he can put me in his will, but it will get taxed and I may end up having to sell the home we've lived in together to pay for it. ..share custody of a child? Nope. If one of us adopts as a single parent to get around the blatant discrimination in adoption laws (sex offenders and violent felons? totally fine.. gay? hell no!), our child will get taken away and placed in a home that doesn't love him the way a family that chose to have them in their lives would. ..cross state borders without looking over our shoulders to see if we're still protected by law? Nope.

    Can I bring my lover in from another country here and have them become a legal citizen? Nope.

    Can I refuse to testify against him in a court of law? Nope.

    The list goes on and on. Those are just some of the more basic rights being undermined in the name of pure bigotry. Families are being crushed. Lives are being torn apart as we needlessly debate this bullshit (sadly nobody talks about these REAL issues except for those of us who actually have to LIVE it). Then on top of that, we constantly get told that WE'RE the ones being immoral.

    So yeah I have a right to fuck a dude, but that's about it.

    There's so much that's taken for granted because we've tied so many rights and privileges into a state institution that ideally, shouldn't exist except for the most minimal purposes. A lot of this also fucks over a lot of straight people who want to be together but don't want their assets tied together into a one-size-fits-all marriage. We're fighting for everyone's freedoms and rights here if you really think about it.

  91. Really? by xenn · · Score: 1

    Firefox 2.0.0.3 and OSX 10.4, did become unresponsive for about 30 seconds but came right, and then just displayed as a white image.

  92. This has already inspired similar pranks on McCain by Phil+Urich · · Score: 2, Interesting

    see here for a pretty good one, referencing the new NIN album in the process.

    --
    I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
  93. Konqueror (on 64-bit Kubuntu) scoffs! by Phil+Urich · · Score: 1

    Not sure about all these other people noting problems, Konqueror on AMD64 (Kubuntu Edgy, haven't bothered with Feisty yet though I had an upgrade going on another computer to test if the beta is worth switching to yet). It just displays nothing. Hmm, let me see if other browsers complain more, I'll go through the rest of my browser list in alphabetical order:

    - Heh, Amaya goes "Not enough memory" and runs away (ie. it shuts down entirely after you hit "okay")

    - Iceweasel says the image cannot be displayed because it contains errors.

    - Firefox, whether 32-bit or 64-bit, gives the same complaint as its logo-less brother.

    - Wait, why do I have Iceweasel before Firefox in alphabetical order? Whatever.

    - Lynx couldn't care less, naturally.

    --
    I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
  94. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by VanessaE · · Score: 1

    How about - perish the thought - renaming the image? Ok, it's a temporary solution, so maybe set up your site (assuming you can) such that your webserver periodically renames the image and alters your HTML accordingly? Sure legit users will still eat some of your bandwidth, but then again, they already are, right?

  95. But what about the Wii? by TXGB324 · · Score: 1

    Tried it on the Opera browser on the Wii, and although it didn't crash it completely, it did dump it back to the start screen.

  96. Re:A common issue with MySpace - and you have to a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The uga link you have used as an example is to a student's website. As it is likely that this student created the page for an html class and will probably never revisit the page again it will probably stay this way.