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Palm to go Linux
jetkins writes "The Melbourne Age reports that company officials announced Tuesday that Palm will move to a new Linux-based platform 'to help the company compete better.' The move was announced 'during a meeting with analysts in New York, where they also discussed the company's business strategy and refused to talk about recent rumors of a possible buyout.'"
Were they not going to do this a few years ago as well and then shelved the whole thing.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
I have to admit that I'm a bit of a gadget junkie so I may be a bit skewed. I think that is a great move for them.
Will it be backward compatible?
Currently, I have documents in excess of 200MB abd would like to read them while on the go. Could a slashdotter help me out thanks. If one can go ahead and recommend a model, thay would even be great.
It is probably a good move for them because: 1. Lower the cost as they don't have to spend as much in development (eventually) for their own OS. 2. They are in a niche now since Linux has a great following 3. Did I say we are all Linux lovers?
My Own Millions Blog
I had a Sharp Zaurus which is/was a GNU/Linux based PDA. Out of the box it only had support for Windows, and was really designed for windows users. In fact I get much better performance out of my Windows Mobile 5 PDA + Fedora Core 6 than I ever did with my Zaurus. I get proprietry stuff on the PDA like TomTom satnav (not available for linux PDA despite the Tomtom standalone uint being linux based). Development branch of Synce support syncing my PDA with Evolution. I can use Minimo web browser. I hate the fact I have to use windows on my pda despite not using windows at home or work but I simply wouldn't get any benfit from a linux pda.
In short. Linux on a PDA is a huge success for Linux but is really no better for everyday linux users unless we get proprietry stuff like Tomtom, RealPlayer, Flash available for it (not completely unlikely).
Given that PDAs are falling behind in the face of smart phones, going to Linux might just entice the linux haXX0r community to produce some fun applications that help Palm in the marketplace.
I don't know if there is already an unofficial palm Linux, but having it officially sanctioned would be a good thing.
Hell, I'm tempted to get one now just to have some coding fun, seriously.
I'd be curious to see the details of distribution. Do they have an obligation to provide the source code? I would think so, but I don't feel like getting into the details of the GPL.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Is Palm the people making the Treo?
I love my PalmOS based 650, but the 700 running windows is a little bit hinkey, from what I've heard.
Or am I thinking about a different palm?
I dont even know who makes what. I just want a new Treo.
And I hope I can use my existing software, too. And I hope it doesn't take 40 minutes to turn on, like other linux-based consumer devices. (Seriously, you could fall asleep waiting for a Tivo to reboot).
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
My Treo 650 does some real weird things sometimes.
My 650 will freeze for up to 20 seconds, at least once a day.
I have friends who own the Palm version of the 700 and these do some very weird things. They reboot themselves constantly, email is very flaky, syncing to Mac computers is so-so at best. Basically syncing is a crapshoot.
I find this to be a good thing and I hope the linux version will be a more stable OS than Palm.
Any cell phone that doesn't have me wishing to toss it through a window after 1 month of initial use, someone tell me, I'd gladly buy it.
I'd love to get a symbian phone but Verizon doesn't have it. I loathe Verizon. I was a t-mobile customer and I really miss the GSM phones. I think once my contract ends with Verizon I will go back to t-mobile or cingular.
Let's see Palm OS, Win CE, and now Linux? Sounds like just the way to lose even more developers.
This is Palm's management clutching at straws.... what was that comment about the iPhone from the Palm CEO? Sad to see a once pioneering company being run over a once beleaguered company.
RIP Palm... here lies the Filofax of the late 90's.
-S
The beauty of Microsoft OS's is that it turns all the hardware vendors who run it into commodity vendors*. This is happening to Palm today as well: as Microsoft's handheld OS is run by more and more handhelds, the value of "Palm" devices and its brand name is also decreased. Apple won't let anyone license its proprietary OS, so Linux is the only major OS name (that means anything to consumers) left for Palm to pursue if they want to remain a viable (and independent) handheld producer.
* There would have been no cheap Linux today if Microsoft hadn't flattened/commoditized the computer hardware market by the start of the 1990's.
I thought they had this killer new OS based on Be? Palm OS 6 (Cobalt) has supposedly been out for a couple of years, and now they're going to scrap that in favor of a completely new OS based on Linux? I find this confusing but then again, I'm reminded of Apple's floundering pre-Jobs when Rhapsody was the Next-best-Thing(TM). Perhaps this is Palm trying to do the same thing?
All handhelds have free PDF readers available. Frankly - this is something you could have found out from a 5 second google query.
..... as Palm sat on their OS for years and allowed RIM and all of the Windows Mobile based handhelds to pass them. Even if the new LINUX based OS is great, they've already lost all of the mindshare that they once had and it won't make any difference.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
This is very good news. It always amazed me how good it feels to have a real OS on these devices (I've had a Sharp Zaurus and several Palms). It is not a special , reduced version of Linux, but the real thing.The only problem I always had was lack of stability of end user aplications. I hope Palm has addressed this issue.
But can I run Windows on it?
The Zaurus was firmly marketed at the Asian market, and the Nokia Internet Tablets are marketed at the western market. I think the Zaurus was successful for its time in its intended market, but couldn't do well in the US/Europe (although it may have done better had the company actually sold the SL-C3xxx series in those markets). Time will tell for the Nokia. One thing Nokia are doing right is NOT marketing their device as a PDA. It's marketed as an Internet Tablet. And I can tell from first-hand experience that it's a joy to use when paired with a BT phone or WiFi. They got those right.
Thats good and all. But does it run DOS?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
XXX#######
TFA it somewhat ambiguous. It is hard to tell whether Palm, inc. announced that they are going to release a pda based on the Access Linux platform, or if they have gotten back into the software business and developed their own platform.
For those who don't know, several years ago Palm split into PalmOne, the hardware side, and PalmSource, the OS developers. Since then, PalmSource has been bought by Access Ltd, and PalmOne has renamed themselves Palm, Inc. PalmSource's PalmOS 6, aka "Cobalt", was never used in a production PDA. After PalmSource was bought by Access, it was announced that future PalmOS releases would be based on Linux, with binary compatibility for previous PalmOS apps.
Unfortunately, Palm, Inc.'s website doesn't mention anything about Linux in either the press release section or the Developer section. And Access released the Access Linux Platform 1.0 two months ago. TFA does say that Palm, Inc. will once again have control over their own OS. This seems to indicate that they have spurned the ALP. If that is the case, one has to wonder how they will offer backwards compatibility, given that the PalmOS IP is owned by Access. Perhaps the permanent license they acquired gives Palm the right to do this kind of thing.
On the other hand, I don't see how they would have any less control if they just used ALP, given that most of it is GPL, and the rest is the same backwards compatibility code that they will need anyways.
I loved the classic Palm applications. No boot-up time, no waiting, no graphics-heavy Windows-like desktop compressed to the size of an index card ...
There seemed to be a lot of hobbyist development, too. People found ways to make the Palm keep track of what they wanted. As I recall, the Palm database format encouraged a lot of interchangeability and standardization. Mind-mapping and outlines were easy as pie and quick to bring up, so I rarely lost any ideas.
When they moved with Windows CE (or whatever they called the mobile variant that week), I threw up my hands. The hardware wasn't suited to it, and there were few -- if any -- replacements for the apps I cared to use. As far as I know, all the good stuff went the way of the dodo.
So I guess my question is: how does the move to Linux bode for developers? Will there be compatibility with any of the classic Palm OS or Windows CE apps, or will we once again have to build from scratch?
Will it run LINohwait
I love my new Nokia N800! Intelligent company's are realizing the benefits of lowering their overhead by using an OpenSource OS, as well as the benefits of an opensource development community. My Nokia is running Maemo and the development community has everything I could ever want or need. All for free. I'm glad to see Palm make the shift, and hopefully this will be how Linux spreads to the masses. First into their hands where they will fall in love with its smooth operations and next will be on their laps where it will continue to warm their hearts... finally... the Desktop where love will conquer all and Vista will be nothing but the past.
Relocating to San Francisco / Palo Alto... Hire me?
Palm hasn't owned PalmOS for years. That is why they are switching to Linux, rather than ship pdas with the latest PalmOS.
OK, lets be honest, we all need our cell phones.
Some of us need our blackberries.
We all want our music.
Rather than juggle all three, there is no reason why the cell phone can't do everything and more. After all a computer, whether it is in a P.C., Cellphone, or what ever is still a computer.
IMHO, Palm is wrong, they are coming into the system from the wrong direction, they MUST focus on the phone first and most, then blackberry, then MP3 player. Deliver a package to Verizon, Cingular, Orange, etc.
This is why iPhone will do better.
It is all a ploy, I tell ya. Palm is just trying to engender the support of millions of unpaid Linux programmers to make their product better since they lack the resources to do it themselves. I can see right through this plan of theirs. Next thing you know, geeks will be arguing about which Linux will run better. And then, someone will mention BSD. And, of course, someone will turn a Palm into a web server just to strut their geekness to the world.
But, kudos to Palm to being able to admit their own home-grown product is no longer able to deliver the goods.
Bearded Dragon
"Palm users, Palm users, Palm users"
Read radical news here
From PalmInfocenter: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9351/palm-annou nces-new-linux-based-mobile-platform/
Yes, the plan is to retain the Palm OS API, in addition to whatever new APIs the create. Of course they've been talking about this for years, so I'll believe it when I see it.
Translation: "We're going to spend yet another year on yet another wild goose chase, so if you were hoping for a new PDA, or even an update to one of our old models, keep hoping."
Their current models are already two years old. That's an eternity in the gadget market. And they weren't exactly cutting edge when they were new.
Talk about taking your customers for granted!
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
This move might have been nice around five years ago but at this point isn't it too little too late? I don't see anyone in the business world these days proudly whipping out their Palm or Palm clone and hastily scribbling away in Graffiti during meetings anymore. It's been years since I've even seen one, with the exception of the Palm III we found recently in a formerly sealed cabinet from the dot-com era.
I guess I just don't see the relevance with the proliferation of BlackBerry and other PDA/phone combos so dominant. I think this ship has sailed...and come back...and sailed off again.
That article has a lot of good information. Apparently, Palm's gotten the right to modify the PalmOS 5 codebase in order to make it run on top of linux. This means that they have created a direct competitor to the Linux platform put together by the current owners of PalmOS. It also mentions that Palm will not be allowing third parties to use their OS. That could backfire, or it could help them a lot. They did the opposite with their first OS, and it led to a lot of innovation.
at linux devices
I'd call your attention to the transition chart in the center.
Does this really make sense to anybody? Has the business market shown any real preference for the Windows Mobile platform over, say, RIM's BlackBerry?
There are two things that drive MS OS hegemony in IT departments: (1) management complexity and (2) the idea that they will develop and maintain apps internally. However, once you introduce mobile devices into the mix, it really doesn't matter what OS they run from a management perspective. The dominant question is how complex is to integrate the device into corporate infrastructures, a game at which RIM excels and Palm fails. Also, successful mobile apps developed in house by IT departments are rare. There are too many complexities and idiosyncracies. Working in the field, it's a lot like developing web applications would be if there weren't a massive industry trying to train us and sell us tools to make the job easier.
I doubt the Windows Mobile platform is really intended to play the market role outlined there. They have some other reason to have it in the lineup.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
The key word in my post was "cheap". Linus's little hobby may not have taken off it wasn't easy for college-age folks like me to buy the components for a cheap PC and run either Linux or Windows on it in the early 1990s. A lot of the people who helped Linux (and its programs) get going couldn't afford a second PC, or were happy a second PC was cheap when they did get one.
So...although Windows may not have helped the creation of Linux as a hobby, it certainly helped make Linux accessible to more people by making PC hardware cheap.
Let me know if you need more help...
This is excellent. I was really tired of the way I turn on my Palm and it just starts right up. I was thinking, if only there were some way I could sit for a couple minutes watching arcane messages about device trees and bogomips fly by; if only I was forced to enter bizarre commands like "chmod mfumble +666 grep nice sparkle /~.>;;;" to look at my calendar; if only I could compile all my applications to install them, instead of just dragging and dropping; if only there were lots of text files to edit to set preferences, and a really gay 1970s-era text editor to do that with, wouldn't that be great!!!! Oh, and now I'll be able to use all kinds of peripherals with it. All I have to do is find some internet forum populated by people with names like Sbjorkograaad Fjogbjorgfnord, and ask them to write drivers for me, and all my software will have help files that sound like "Please to be enjoying the installation of the this programme! First is to be compiling to directory temporary of the system and then to do linking."
Yeah, I can't effing wait.
I guess we all knew that a year (or two?) ago.
But frankly, as it stands now, I can easier see Palm to go RIP rather than Linux.
And Linux - doesn't that mean that Linux based "PalmOS" should be GPL?
ACCESS, who own the PalmOS (except the piece Palm bought the rights to development to), has said for over a year that the next version of PalmOS will be running Linux, with a current PalmOS compatible front-end. Is the article talking about this, or something new, that Palm itself is creating a Linux PDA OS?
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
Yeah, but will I be able to install this as an upgrade to my Palm TX???
-- oh never mind
-1 not first post
I don't care as long as they keep the 64K segment barrier. I'm sooo in to pain!
The Palm OS is develped and Mainatinted by PalmSource, now known as ACCESS Systems Americas, Inc., is a subsidiary of ACCESS .
d ex.html
They are developing a new version of Palm based on Linux-
http://www.access-company.com/about/opensource/in
My guess is that Palm Inc isnt changing OS vendors, they are just moving in the direction that ACCESS is moving- To Linux, and that Palm Inc will continue to use ACCESS as the OS development company- I dont think Palm Inc is going out on there own.
Could Palm not implement some form of Linux that would allow them to run a Mozilla suite on their handhelds? That might get them over the hump of integration with Windows in the business community (if they could come up with a way to synch between Linux-based Mozilla on the handheld and PC-based Thunderbird+Calendars in a Windows environment).
This has been a possibility for years. I remember when I had my old Palm IIIx (9 years ago) there was a linux port to the newer "flashable" Palms with the m68k core. Doing a quick google search and you can see there are already some ports: http://palmtelinux.sourceforge.net/ http://palm-linux.sourceforge.net/
They bought the right to use the name PalmOS from ACCESS, as well as the source of the current Palm OS 5. As far as they are concerned, they can use Palm OS 5 all they want.
My palms have been using linux for quite a while now. All seven of them.
But will it run Linux? Oh, wait, what story is this?
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
One product Microsoft really has gotten right is the PocketPC. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the Windows Mobile platform has F/OSS and commercial software available for it, is not crippled like Apple's iPhone, has excellent handwriting recognition based on work pioneered by Apple's Newton project, and offers excellent multimedia capabilities (in fact I rip most of my DVDs so I can play them on my PocketPC). Up to now, I've HATED Palms, dating back to the original Pilot. I've had Palm PDAs, and hated them. Palm dropped the ball on multimedia, downplaying it, saying customers don't want it. Microsoft, with PocketPC 2000, included full multimedis support (hell, there were even video capture and TV tuner accessories for PocketPCs then!). Palm forced you to learn Graffiti. Microsoft offered handwriting recognition, block character recognition (Graffiti compatibility), and an on-screen keyboard, as well as support for physical keyboards. Palm's sync software sucked, and Microsofts, although unstable at times, didn't suck nearly as much.
I've thought about installing Linux on my iPAQ 3670, since Compaq actually used to install Linux on the iPAQ for customers, but now that PocketPC is so old it's doubtful that I'd be able to get it up and running again if the flash fails, and the iPAQ oldtimers are not with HP/Compaq any more. Even though I never use the 3670 any more (I have an hx2795 now) it's nice to know that I have the option to use it if the new one fails.
The down sides of the PocketPC:
- Linux will not mount it as a mass storage device (I work around it by using ssh/SCP over Wifi but as you know SCP is slow)
- SynCE is a pain in the ass to set up
- It is not user-repairable (software-wise): HP's daylight savings time fix DID NOT WORK. Were it Linux, I'd be able to easily fix it myself.
- Microsoft still insists that a close/kill button is unnecessary
- The memory model is still lame
- Vendor support (for updates, bug fixes, etc.) is weak to nonexistent
if Palm switches to Linux, here is what it would require for me to buy it:
- Let me customise the desktop
- multimedia should meet or exceed the high end PocketPCs (such as the hx2795)
- Comply with the GPL. Release the source, let us modify it. Don't DRM the appliance so we can't make fixes.
- Make syncing with Linux a high priority
- Make it mountable as a mass storage device
- get Teletype or TomTom to port their GPS products (I know, TomTom appliances run Linux)
Multimedia and GPS are what attracted me to the PocketPC in the first place. Before then, people would GIVE me PDAs, and I wouldn't use them.
It'll take a lot to get me to buy a Linux PDA, because Microsoft has largely gotten it right. I hate desktop Windows, I hate server editions of Windows, and I hate Microsoft's anti-customer policies as of late, however, they got one thing almost completely right and that is the PocketPC. Every Linux PDA I've seen so far has been limited either by low volume (so little support), weak hardware, or really lame GUI designs and limited I/O options.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Instead of trying to turn the Palm platform into a laptop replacement, they should have concentrated on its strengths (small size, low overhead, low processor requirements, SUPER-reliable syncing) and ridden the wave of Moore's Law down to Walmart. How many Palms do you think they'd sell if you could buy one for $29.95 at the checkout counter when you're picking up your school supplies... bundled with a program that emulates the school's required Ti-83 that you're having to fork out just as much money for?
Yes, Palm could *easily* have done this, without sacrificing profits. Instead, they overreacted to the Pocket PC and pulled one of the three classic blunders (never get involved in a land war in Asia, never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line, and never go after Microsoft on their playing field)... and now they've basically got nothing left but their name.
You know, even though bashing Linux isn't popular around here, you had the potential for a funny post there, and you fucking blew it.
Good job.
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
It may be too little too late. But what Palm has got going for them at this point is the Treo line. It's not much of an edge anymore, since WinCE phones are quite comparable in raw specs to Palm-based Treos these days, and the OS on WinCE phones is better suited to the hardware than PalmOS. But nevertheless, the Treo is still a decent shot at a better future for Palm. So, yes, they're talking about smartphones more than they are talking about straight PDAs.
I am hopeful that they're really going to make it happen this time, and they'll turn out a new device I'll be happy to use. (Not running every bloody thing under PACE would be a good start, no matter what they do...)
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
Yes, but Palm OS 5 is not the latest Palm OS. Cobalt is, but it was stillborn. Either way, Palm is better off with Linux, if only because that leaves them less work to do to support various hardware.
See Subject.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
My feelings exactly. Shellacking a turd at best.
...because the screen is always too small (in terms of both physical size and resolution). Instead, if I wanted a device to be used for reading, I'd get an ebook reader instead. They're bigger and the new ones have "electronic ink" displays, which are (much) easier on the eyes for reading, and give much better battery life because they only draw power when updating the image.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I hope this cuts down on their R&D costs and allows them to make cheaper Palm Pilot PDAs as a result.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
That is GNU/LINohwait to you!
Their Windows Mobile devices are selling well and they'll continue to offer them.
...and not before. I've been using a PalmOS device for 11 years, most recently a series of Handera 330's. Palm has done NOTHING to maintain the franchise for YEARS. They went out of their way to get rid of Sony and Handera, and anyone else who made PalmOS machines. If they announce going to Linux by years-end, it will be 2010 before one comes out. I've wanted something to replace my aging PDA for a long time and simply refuse the WINCE machines. I guess I'll continue to look for old Handera equipment on Ebay and pray for something reputable from a third-party (Sharp, Psion, TI, ANYBODY OUT THERE?).
If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?
For the most part, I agree with you. Having said that, I want to also say that I read the entire Mars trilogy (or were that four books?) by Borroughs on my Psion Revo while on the bus. An actual ebook reader might have been just as well, but I didn't (a) have one, and (b) want two devices in my pocket.
Now that I'm on a Palm (T3), I'm looking far and wide for ebook reader software that is comparable.
"Good news, everyone!"
Wouldn't the appropriate way for the company to compete better be to actually ship a product? Seriously, I haven't used a PDA for quite a while, 'cuz I ain't touching Windows, and Palm (my former favorite) hasn't exactly been reliable lately...
At the time the PC was introduced there was not a large scale migration going on from proprietary operating systems to Unix, that would happen years later. When it finally did occur it was mostly a migration from a proprietary non-Unix OS to one of many semi-proprietary incompatible Unix OS's. Only when Linux caught fire in the mid to late 90's was there a significant transition to a single open Unix implementation.
Your comment about the "dozens of different microprocessors hitting the market" seems unrelated to the subject at hand. There certainly wasn't dozens of 16 bit processors available at the time of the PC's introduction. Most activity was in the area of highly integrated embedded microcontrollers rather than general purpose processors because the former was a much larger market.
Palm OS 5 is the de facto latest version of the Palm OS. OS 6 (aka Cobalt) is dead, actually it was never alive, since it never made it to any real device. PalmSource (now ACCESS) dropped the development of OS6 as soon as they started working on ALP (PalmSource version of PalmLinux).
Actually, I think you could make a better case that it would have been a Mac world. Without the pressure of the PC clone market to force IBM to lower it's margins, the relative cost of Macs vs. PCs would have been lower. In addition since IBM showed no interest in a PC based Windowing environment until MS proved there was a market for it, it's doubtful if there would have been an OS/2 anyway. So without MS, it would have been a more expensive command-line OS on the PC vs. the Mac.
I was a long time TREO user, now switched to T-Mobile DASH (windows mobile).
Reasons:
- much, much, better form factor
- wi-fi
I thought I'd miss the touch screen in Treo, so far I haven't. Only thing I miss is the ability to natively sync (calendar, contacts) in Linux; I have a windows machine for this - not ideal but works
After using my DASH for a few weeks, Treo feels like a BRICK. Also PALM put off doing a real WIFI mostly bowing to the pressures of phone companies.
Palm should get in gear and start innovating in hardware front, as opposed to slapping on different OSes on top of the same old phone.
I have waited for a better form factor Treo from 650. And after seeing not-so-exciting 680 and 700, I have moved on.
To me this 'palm linux announcement' just feels like the last ditch effort to appeal to 'developer community'.
Which is better?
You just described Desktop Linux in maybe 1998. Maybe.
Linux is perfectly capable of doing everything I've seen a PalmOS device do. The ability to compile stuff yourself does not mean you have to.
You're trolling, and the only reason I've bothered to respond is, it is possible to have the situation you've described -- I've got a fairly customized Linux on my Jornada that is actually that bad. But things are MUCH better on the desktop now, and you won't even notice when the vendor supports it on a handheld, if they do it right.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!