Slashdot Mirror
Gary Kasparov Arrested Over Political Fight
geddes writes "World chess champion turned opposition leader Gary Kasparov was arrested this morning while leading an march through Moscow in opposition to Russian President Vladamir Putin. Kasporov is a leader of the 'Other Russia' coalition which has been banned by the government from appearing on TV, and had been denied a marching permit. From the New York Times: 'Essentially barred from access to television, members of Other Russia have embraced street protests as the only platform to voice their opposition ahead of parliamentary elections in December and presidential elections next March. Early this month, Mr. Kasyanov's and Mr. Kasparov's Web sites were blocked, though it was unclear by whom.' Kasparov was later released from detention, though he was still fined for participating in the event."
ohh boy he's been chek mated..
It's interesting that the people in charge of Russia now could be reasonably charged as "counter-revolutionaries" who thwart the will of the people. If I recall, the punishment for that used to be being sent to the Gulag.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Castled by the police.
Get it? Eh? Because the prison cell is like... Oh gosh.
Is there another side to this story? IS there a valid reason for the TV ban? Is it even a TV ban? And so on.
I have long ago learned that slashdot stories and summaries have enough bias in them to drown half the world in so thats why I'm asking.
In Soviet Russia... Uhm... Wait a minute here.
but that doesn't excuse it. It was apparently about AUD50 (from the ABC.
Anyway, this is just another example of how legitimate protests are squashed by authorities. If Putin and Co continue to suppress the opposition, I wonder if Mr Berezovsky will carry out his threat to have a "Russian Revolution"?
Meh, and you wonder why some of the old people want the Soviet Union back.
I wank in the shower.
In Soviet Russia, chess play you.
In Soviet Russia, Russia Soviet you.
In Soviet Russia, democracy votes for you.
In Soviet Russia, Error (String not found in database.)
Support your local school shooter, give them your firearms.
their political system may be awful mess, but it goddamn cool that being a chess champion there makes you a national hero too big for the government to mess with lightly.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Just about anywhere in the world when you are denied a permit for a march or other assembly and do it anyway, you get arrested.
In the US this has happened with KKK and Nazi groups. I suspect it would happen to a Young Repuplicans march if they were (a) denied a permit and (b) marched anyway.
We like to think we have freedom of speech and a peaceful protest like this wouldn't be broken up here. That is false. In Russia they require permits and his permit was denied. He and some other protesters were arrested for marching without a permit.
Most don't know that here in the US you are required to have a permit also, just as they did in Russia they can refuse to grant your permit will try to silence your protest and just happened in Russia. If you March anyway you WILL be arrested for trying to exercise your free speech.
Putin has Russia locked down almost as tight as Stalin. Only, instead of killing people, he just chases them out of the country, or locks them up. Remember how one political dissident's lawyer recieved death threats, and fled to Amsterdam? Yeah, guess who ordered the death threats. Hint: It's not Yeltsin. He owns most of the TV and media outlets - he can clean up his mess by making it a non story. I wish Kasparov was only the first example of Putin's ironhold grip on political discussion.
kasparov blames team of ibm scientists for masterminding his capture.
Ludwig Wittgenstein
I recently got US citizenship and was debating on what to do with by Russian passport. But, I have no desire to be in any way associated with a dictatorship. I guess I will be returning it shortly, with a note describing why.
I always thought that this practice violated the Right of Assembly part of the Constitution.
I feel the same about Free Speech Zones...
Pretty much what happened in 2004 in New York at the RNC.
*cough*
On one hand it is suprising that Russia would want to arrest such a famous person for such a trivial political act. On the other hand, totalitarianism knows no friends..
And this is news, why?
If enough people would be interested to hear about something, then it's news. Personally I was interested. But sorry that we are boring you!
Oh great, so you want a guy who denies that the holocaust happened as your leader?
there was a huge protest against a G8 meeting in florida (around '02 i think).
they had flawless preparation, including all permits.
the pro-globalist heavyweights who controlled the area simply had cops trample them anyway, declaring them "anarchist agitators" to the media, which loyally parroted their excuse to the rest of the nation, quickly burying any potential public outrage at the new police state of florida.
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Francis Fukuyama was wrong. So wrong.
Liberal Democracy isn't the only ideology still remaining after the fall of the Soviet system. Neo-Facism and the cult of the leader in Russia. The One Party State in China. Theocracies in the Middle East. Tin Pot dictators ruling their roosts all across the third world. Even the "liberated" countries of eastern europe are falling back into authoritarianism.
And faced with this, what are liberal democratic societies doing? They're evolving into not-so-liberal democracies with human rights taking second place to "security" and profit. Once again, the US leads the way and the rest of the western world follows. I'd like to be more optimistic, but somedays I truely feel that the great democratic experiment is doomed to be a slow and ignominious failure.
Apathy is not the cause of democracy's downfall. The sad reality is that a great many people simply to not agree with our free society, with our rule of law or with our casteless social structure. These people are your friends, your neighbours and coworkers, and secretly they support presidents like Putin, and laws that ban street rallies and protests. They're simply waiting for the time when it becomes acceptable to voice those opinions once more. That time may be closer than you think.
May the Maths Be with you!
yes, this is slashdot... and people are suposed to have a sense of humor about things...
but given the state of the world i am really disturbed by jokes on this particular topic.
can anyone from a former soviet republic wade in and give us some ground-level perspective on what this means to them?
from my perspective it is kinda like michael jordan being arrested for protesting detentions in guantanamo.
regards.
p.s. i do understand that permits are necessary to march. i also understand that a viable ruling party can tolerate reasonble dissention.
In the last years of Boris Yeltsin's presidency, Russians began to realize that their post-Soviet capitalistic reforms had been too much too fast, leaving the economy in even worse shambles than before, and allowing the rise of the Russian mafia from the chaos. Yeltsin decided it was time to slow down reforms and let people catch up, so he turned to a little known St. Petersburg political aide with a growing reputation for efficiency to be his last prime minister and implement the slow down. That man was ex-KGB agent Vladimir Putin.
Putin slowed down the capitalistic reforms, and then some. He returned some major companies to state-control, including most of the media. The economy is much improved during his tenure. He revived the secret police en masse. When a major oil tycoon decided to form a political party to challenge Putin, the tycoon was arrested on mafia-related charges, and his company was taken over by the state. Similar things have happened to a number of major political opponents. The court system has lost much of its veneer of independence from the executive branch. Putin is well-known for cronyism and a preference for Soviet-style rule. The Bush administration and others have publicly chastised Putin for hurting democracy. In fact, it wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect him of close ties to major players in the mafia, though impossible to prove. Right now the favorite to succeed Putin appears to be one of his former KGB associates who is now one of his top deputies. If you want specific charges that opponents have leveled against Putin, read anything by Anna Politkovskaya, such as Putin's Russia. Just be aware she has a strong anti-Putin bias (which may be why she was murdered).
Kasparov is just one of the latest to attempt an anti-Putin political movement. Obviously Kasparov could expect a meager fine for holding a public demonstration in a spot where he didn't have a permit. The subtext is much more interesting. Pro-Kremlin youth gathering where he expected to protest? Was it really arranged before Kasparov's? I doubt it, especially the way this exact same excuse is being used repeatedly across multiple cities. Who knows; it's hard to be sure what's going on in Russia under Putin.
It's GARRY Kasparov.
A: Because, Kasparov is a nerd!
being able to shut down the opposition of its freedom of speech in a country is worth of newsspace.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
i am not interested in your comment so much as your sig... as a lincoln fiend i am curious to know exactly how you believe j.w. booth was acting as a patriot... ushering.sleeps@gmail.com please reply/
This is exactly the point Kasparov has been trying to make. An important part of playing chess is understanding how to assess your own strength impartially. Kasparov fully understands he is playing from a weak position (he said so on BBC Radio last week). Let's hope he can use this knowledge to do better than others who might rush in foolhardily thinking they are in a psoition of strength.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Granted no. Guaranteed, yes. ( there is a slight difference there )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Vladimir Putin has enjoyed almost rock star like popularity in Russia for his nearly 2 terms now. In fact, several years ago, there was a chart topping single called "Someone like Putin" that was the rage throughout the country (someone that won't leave me, etc, etc). It seems to me that if someone comes along to challenge him, it will take someone of equal or greater popularity to pull it off (someone like Kasparov). Also, I don't really know why, but Russians (at least in Russia), seem to crave a heavy handed goverment, and Putin is more than willing to give it to them. Unfortunately, we really don't understand this phenomenon in the west.
He gave his life in an act of protecting his country, which by definition gives him the right to be called a patriot.
Now, one can debate all day long if he was misguided or not, but his actions are what i speak of.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
New non-joke tag: inputinistrussia
In Putinist Russia, government censors YOU!
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Russia has been sliding back into its Soviet era doctrine more and more in the past 8 years. While I don't blame the current administration I feel that Putin and his "retro-commie" allies have taken advantage of Americas leadership in the war on terror to begin building themselves up as a world superpower again. Aligning with nations such as Iran, which are at odds with the West, are giving Russia some bargaining chips on the world stage. Unfortunately the Putin regime must use strong armed, Stalinist tactics to achieve its goals with little media interference.
It is a frightened scenario that the West will wake up one day and find an aggressive bear on our steps again.
the e-mail i posted is a throw-away... i would be interested in continuing this conversation privately, and you can use that e-mail if you would like to do so.
in my opinion there is no difference between booth and a suicide bomber who dies for something they don't understand.
regards.
The Russian stormtroopers then club some of the demonstators. When we see the phalanx of Russian special-forces police numbering nearly 9000 (outnumbering the demonstrators by 6 to 1), we are reminded of the American police and their dogs as they nearly mauled the civil-rights demonstrators of the 1960s.
Yet, one difference still exists between King and Kasparov. An assassin's bullet felled King. What will happen to Kasparov? Will he end in the same fate.
people like you need to move to china or iran where "those damned people who want rights" will be put in their place.
honestly, IMHO you can go get violently soddomized for your blanket, trollish comments.
the vast majority of protests are perfectly civil until cops come in and instigate violence.
i have plenty of access to videos of cops throwing the first blow, then running around beating people in attempts to confiscate their cameras and prevent the documentation of their fascist behavior.
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Why don't they just quietly rig an electronic voting system.... it's been successful before without people revolting?!
The permit gives you *extra* privileges. Being denied one doesn't mean you're not allow to, say, go to the park and start speaking. A large gathering of people puts an unfair burden on everybody else. But because society recognizes value in these things it is willing to grant temporary license to create that burden.
Because of questions about the first part. If the group is being systematically censored, then it's the "illegal" part that makes it news.
Part of the story is the other participants in the opposition movement. Despite his apparent popularity in the West, Kasparov's participation alone probably would not have caused the permits to be denied.
A gallery of news photos from the event may help to understand the story better. I am not going to try explaining the backgrounds of all the opposition groups, but one of them is called "national-bolsheviks" and even a quick glance at their symbols may suggest that the West would not want the leaders of this movement to rule in Russia. Some "national-bolshevik" events have turned violent in the past, so the Russian Federal and Moscow City governments may have a legitimate security concern when considering the location and type of these events.
In this case, the authorities actually did allow the opposition meeting on one of squares in Moscow, but not the preceding march starting from a different square. So there was no total ban, but the opposition did not get everything they wanted. The response of Western governments to the anti-globalization marches may be a reasonable analogy. I am not saying that there is no concern over democracy in Russia in general, but in this specific event both sides have contributed to the outcome.
For those who cannot read the captions in Russian, these are pictures of Kasparov from the march.
Weak position? Are you kidding? He has fame and money. So "Other Russia" is banned from appearing on TV, huh? Kasparov getting arrested, even if for an extremely short time, gets them much more exposure than they could have possibly gotten on TV.
You think people would give the story more than a passing glance if random russian guy had been arrested during a protest? There'd be 5 minutes about it on the 11:00 news, and you wouldn't hear about it again. And the random guy would probably not have been released so soon. But Gary Kasparov arrested for voicing his political views? This isn't going away.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Fascinating.
"Kasparov is a supporter of Anatoly Fomenko's New Chronology." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasparov
"Fomenko asserts that all of ancient history (including the history of Greece, Rome, and Egypt) is just a reflection of events that occurred in the Middle Ages and that all of Chinese and Arab history are fabrications of 17th and 18th century Jesuits. He also claims that Jesus lived in the 11th century A.D. and that the Trojan war and the Crusades were the same historical event. He claims that Genghis Khan and the Mongols were actually Russians." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Timofeevich_
http://reddit.com/info/1hx93/comments/c1hyds
Kasparov is worth listening to. He's been publishing op-eds about Russian politics for a couple years now, and they are quite interesting. The ones I've read were in the Wall Street Journal, but I'm sure he's been contributing to other papers too. I'd suggest checking a few of his pieces out to judge for yourself if he's got anything to say, rather than dismissing his opinions out of hand just because he's something of a nerd-celebrity.
In Russia they require permits and his permit was denied.Most don't know that here in the US you are required to have a permit also, just as they did in Russia they can refuse to grant your permit will try to silence your protest and just happened in Russia. If you March anyway you WILL be arrested for trying to exercise your free speech.
First off, if you read the news stories, they requested a permit for one area, were told no, and were given one for a different area. Moving along...
Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose. You do not have an unlimited or unrestrained right to free speech; see "libel" in your dictionary for an excellent example. Permits are required here too in almost any city or town of reasonable size, for two reasons.
Number one, protests usually lead to trouble, if they are of any size. People doing the protesting cause trouble. Or people tag along and take advantage of the anonymity of a crowd, to cause trouble. Or people who don't like the protesters cause trouble. Or the crowd by simple virtue of its size or density causes trouble with no specific fault. Say, someone lights a flag on fire, someone says "fire!", panic ensues, and you get people killed by trampling. Large crowds are very dangerous, because they have no intelligence: they have "mob mentality."
Number two, the city/town government wants a heads up so they can prepare, and see if you have any idea what you're doing, and if you don't, try to steer you into doing the right thing. Are you expecting 10 people, or 1000 arriving via busses? "Do you have a place for those busses to go? Do they need to have extra cops on traffic detail? Do they need to have a couple of ambulances nearby? Has your group caused trouble in other towns/cities? Is your message liable to inspire counter-protest? What are the counter-protesters like? Will they get nasty, even if you don't? Where are your people staying for the night? How are they eating? Where will they go when nature calls? Are you going to pick up all the trash you leave behind, or will we have to get the park department to pull overtime? Are you going to destroy the park's grass because of all the foot traffic, ruining it for everyone else?
Number two is important because more often than not, protesters only see their vision, and don't think through details, logistics, or the implications and consequences their actions have on the rest of society.
For example, most cities have very little patience for protesters clogging up major centers, where the effect will cause traffic throughout the city. That has a real impact on commerce, but also police, fire, and medical services for people that have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you don't like G8, NAFTA, green beans, Jewish Nazis, Yogi Bear, or whatever. The guy having a heart attack 10 blocks away just wants to get to the hospital, and his rights are just as important as yours. If a traffic jam prevents groceries from getting to market, and the market can't sell to the lunchtime crowd picking up stuff for dinner- well, maybe things are tight and the lost income means johnny the stockboy needs to be let go. What about his rights?
According to the Associated Press story:
Organizers sought permission to gather on Pushkin Square, a traditional site for protests, but city officials rejected the request. Instead, they approved Turgenev Square, about a mile east and away from the city's commercial and cultural hub. Organizers refused to cancel plans for the Pushkin Square rally and protesters started to arrive before 11 a.m. Police began seizing them a few at a time.
Some trouble broke out when protesters charged a line of riot police. Riot police responded, and the crowd broke up. A journalist was injured, riot police treated him.
Eventually the crowd of protesters melted into side streets, a
Please help metamoderate.
A Chinese group lead by Xiaoyun Wang is currently leading, I'd say, the rest of the world in the crypanalysis of hash functions.
Their work has lead the NIST to start working on starting a process similar to AES, but this time for hash functions.
And they need land and resources.
You must be kidding. Saying that Russia is in need of land and resources is like saying that China is facing a manpower shortage. Even accounting for the percentage of the country covered in permafrost, they have more usable land than any other country in the world. And as for their natural resources, they are hardly hurting there either.
"I'm making perfect sense, you're just not keeping up."
In my personal experience, there are always a few adventurists in the crowd at that sort of 'protest.' All the cops have to do is show up visibly, and the adventurists go all off at them and provoke a struggle.
Put up or shut up with your 'videos.'
Dare I say it?
if you were me, you'd think the same way
then you arrest the adventurists, not shut down the protest or require permits.
at many sports events there are similar "adventurists". they get drunk and routy, then throw beer at players or other spectators and start fights. do they arrest everyone around that guy? no. do they require permits from everyone who wants to play street footbal or street hockey? no, they arrest the troublemaker and go away.
put up or shut up with your "adventurists". (and no.. major news channels dont count for this, you need to have on the ground first hand video of "adventurists" instigating things)
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the organized group was guaranteed a right by the constitution, they shouldnt have to disperse.
id love to see the reaction of people like you if democrats instituted "second amendment zones" which were the ONLY places where gun possession was allowed.
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get a clue. Putin strips all rights from all individuals in Russia. He controls the media, and therefore, all outcomes of elections. This means no democracy. No democracy means that everything soldiers from Western nations fought and died for, would be null and void. And in all honesty, if you think Putin is good for you -- pack your bags and move to Russia. When you haven't any food to eat, or you feel powerless because you can't climb the corporate ladder, make sure you keep your mouth shut -- cause you may end up dead.
but then again, maybe you're just trolling, and i took the bait.
We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
You are so intellectually weak it boggles the mind. In fact, you exemplify the intellectual weakness that allows Putin to continue pushing Russia into being the feeble-minded, authoritarian state it has always taken all too much comfort in.
Putin's authoritarian rule has almost nothing to do with the need to strengthen Russia's foreign stance, stabilize its economy, or purge corruption. The Russian government as it currently stands is incompatible with an open society. If you think that the ability to openly criticize the government or run in elections is not vital for Russia's well being or future stability and prosperity, or that it is somehow contingent on the weaselly excuses you present, I have nothing but disgust for you.
You're one of the countless Russian sheep, directed by the sovok-trained bureaucrats to smother the few Russians who understand the value of free thought and open society. Wake up.
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The U.S. has been at war with the socialist bogeyman since Marx published. I don't need to say too much how much the Gilded Age wealthy used their newspapers and their government influence to convince people that labor laws = unions = communism = anarchy = slavery = the end of the world. Those men were the among the worst slavers in history. They should have felt right at home.
After the Revolution in Russia, the entire myth building machine went into batshit insane mode. We spend untold trillions of dollars and who knows how many billions of hours of people's lives fighting the Commie Devil. Certainly millions were slaughtered -- we killed a million alone in Vietnam. Now we have the Terrorist Menace, and they are sticking us for trillions more and killing hundreds of thousands in the name of security, and even invoke the democracy meme again, tho it really doesn't apply. The last of the Commie war is still being fought against a dirt poor Cuba which would be a damned sight less poor if we hadn't embargoed it for half a century.
Russia wasn't the almighty military enemy the commie warriors said it was. The story of how the Pentagon and the CIA were pummeled into line, despite evidence they knew about that said they were far weaker and poorer than the civilian warriors demanded they see it, still remains to be told. It's a story Americans will not listen to. We had our first Iraq over sixty years ago.
Soooo. Soviet Union fell, turned into a hell on earth controlled by crime syndicates. We were fine with that! At least we can do business with the guy who cuts a prostitute up for holding back. So Putin has golden plumbing *on his airplane*. That's capitalism, by definition better than anything.
Now we have a fascist state rising from the criminal state. We're still okay with that. Putin has a good soul, Bush saw it in his eyes. A little polonium and a few reporters with their brains splattered in front of their homes is just the stuff of hard politics. Cheney probably smirks when he hears about that.
They could strip people to the bone with boiling oil, and we'd STILL think they were better than them commies. As a matter of fact, they ARE boiling people's skin off with vats of oil. We don't care.
Vonnegut said that what we see today is the rise to power of psychopathic personalities. People like them because they are decisive. But, they are decisive because they don't care about the repercussions of their decisions. Putin is strong, and Russians like strong men, as Hendrick Smith wrote. I'd like to point out that PP leaders also require a large population of PPs who don't care either. Without masses of people with no moral sense, PPs can't keep power.
As long as unions are illegal and we can do business with someone, we don't fuck with them. Rule by kleptocrats. I'd rather have a socialist neighbor who spends all their money on health care and full employment than a hypermilitary power ruled by psychopaths. But we're so fixated on our century and a half of war (on the behalf of the very wealthy who created the war in fear of change in their power) on commies, unions and suchlike that we will support a thousand mirrorshaded mass murderers who will sell us bananas at near cost than a socialist who wants to spread the wealth. The mountain of bodies we have dedicated to the god of money must be a thousand feet tall.
Russia's core problem with "freedom" and "democracy" was that they were Russians. What they do to the weak is part of their culture, not about Marxism. communism was our bogeyman, not theirs, as we see clearly now. They have a fascist soul, and it doesn't matter how the paychecks are cut -- it's about power. But we loves us some businessmen. We don't want democracy, we want money, we want gas pipelines, we want cheap labor. We are looking straight into the face of pure evil and laughing as it beats the democrats in the streets of Russia. Fuck those losers, they were blocking traffic. Party on.
NATO is threatening Russia? NATO fighters in Baltic states?
After Russia has occupied Baltic states TWICE, and performed GENOCIDE in there, there should be some darn NATO fighters in there and more.
If you are a people who cannot live in freedom without some strong handed Czar, that would be fine with me. Except most Russian Czars like to go to war, and they screw up their neighbors real bad. Its much harder to go to war with proper democracy. And if you don't go to open war, you meddle with affairs of other countries with KGB.
The sad thing is, USA, the paragon of freedom and democracy, turns out not to be much better. Only they do world domination much better, with profits and Coca-Cola and movies for everyone. And almost everyone loves it.
We need a new form of government real bad. Democracy collapses into consumerism and corporation rule quite quickly, which destroys freedom of thought and free market. So it doesn't work as it is supposed to. And others are worse.
--Coder
IBM had a team active and working on the computer during the chess game, the exact details of their actions I wasn't able to find other than to know over a dozen engineers were tinkering with the computer during the game. IBM took the good news and ran with it never again having the GUTS to a rematch with fair preconditions; largely because they fear losing. It is like 'winning' a Turing Test; just winning it once doesn't really prove anything (as has been shown already.)
A fair match wouldn't involve a team of humans, who essentially are helping the computer 'think' thru the game. Besides, the computer shouldn't be able to use brute force to aid its low intelligence because its beside the whole point. It shouldn't require any help other than I/O. Simply for the fact its the only way to prove its not just some calculator to aid ibm employees to victory.
Not relevant, but rather than mod you down I decided to forgo my moderator power and reply.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
exactly, they disappeared; their acquaintances and relatives dont know what the heck happened to them.
oh the irony.
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It didn't help Mikhail Khodorkovsky, if Putin wants you dead, or make your life hell, he'll do it. Then he'll announce on TV that's he's doing fantastic job. We'll hear about Kasparov/Khodorkovsky here, but don't count on Putin's media.
every year i think about going there, but i wonder how reputable my school would be over there compared to the US.
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"Yeah, the experiment failed, can we rejoin britain now?"
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Bush also has had this to say about Putin, though:
As reported by the Beeb in 2001...
butter the donkey
I'm not sure I follow... But, I'm actually interested in where you're going with this, would you mind elaborating? Maybe it's just really early and I'm not reading between the lines right, or maybe there aren't any lines to read between.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
Hopefully, a typical American political philosophy would not say that. Banning a specific group from appearing on TV due to a majority vote seems to be dictatorship by the majority. The usual way would be to go through legislation. You would make a law which governs what can appear on TV. Then, the group in question would be tested by the rules in the law, and if it is found that the group can not appear on TV, it would have the option to contest that in front of a court.
You must be kidding. Saying that Russia is in need of land and resources is like saying that China is facing a manpower shortage.
It's an ambiguous construction, but I think the 'they' who need land and resources is China, which would give Russia good reason to want to defend itself.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Things become crystal clear, especially after the purchase of IBM by a Russian company was officially announced.
Requirements: knowledge of Russian; IT-oriented sense of humour.
The saddest poem
Not so secretly, I long for a libertarian to lower taxes, and leave me and everybody else the f*ck alone to live their lives as they see fit. Sadly, the very sort of people who are attracted to and ultimately end up in positions of power are those who won't leave you alone, and insist on bending you to their will.
While I agree with much of what the Libertarians say with regard to less government restrictions on individual freedoms and lower taxes, they also advocate less government regulation of industry (in fact, they advocate virtual no restriction on corporate behaviour). This poses a problem and is their achialles heel: unregulated capitalsim tends to evolve into corporate fascism, as the 19th century proved very dramatically (c.f. child labour, private police murders of early union organisers, etc.).
Having a weak democratically elected government, and undemocratic corporatism running rampent is a sure recipe for the very authoritarianism you and I both decry. The only difference is that the dictators will come from captains of industry and private armies, rather than politicians and publicly funded armies.
What we need is a hybrid of Libertarianism and social liberalism, where indivudual freedom is held sacrosanct, but corporations are treated as governance bodies and required to submit to the same constitutional limitations on their treatment of human beings just as political governance bodies (i.e. the "government"). Alas, I see no one advocating such a thing--which leaves a gaping political hole in the landscape where a non-dystopian future might lie.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Adding to this: opposition is as unpopular as it was in Soviet times. The population of Russia en masse is still politically very inactive.
I hate Putin, but he is good for Russia, THAT Russia that I hate - stubborn backward country of angry people that dream of world domination.
The Putin's model of Russia is relatively stable, all the mish-mash opposition: liberals, neofaschists, Russian nationalists, the right wing European style "Movement against Illegal Immigration", communists - all foam on the surface of the deep pond that Russian political life is.
Real power will always belong to the mafia. It was nobles in the times of the Tsarist Russia, bolsheviks in the times of Lenin, nomenklature in the times of Khruschev and Brezhnev, secret service in times of Putin. Notable exceptions are powerless times between Feb and Oct of 1917, times of Stalin when he was The Party, The Secret Service, The most absolute monarch in the history of Russia and again powerless times of Eltsyn.
People in Russia live happier under autocratic regimes, because they are not used to it. Russia never reached the level of prosperity and independence and/or other contitions enough to form necessary foundation of the Western time democracy.
Live Russia alone. Harsh weather, historically bad business habits won't give a chance for Russia to be a serious competitor of the US or West.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
I've always seen a problem with this because the First Amendment specifically says:
Since in SCOTUS they have declared that the constitution applies to local and sate governments. Having to get a permit not only violates the spirit of the amendment, but clearly is almost impossible to interpret any other way.
Sure it causes a strain on society, but the text specifically says as long as they stay peaceful the government has no authority to say if they can gather at all in the first place.
Of course... This is still being fought in the courts by the ACLU (like them or not), but we will have to see on the matter. Although, I suppose its it understandable when other nations repress protests, but in the US is it a shame because it is one of the few specifics in the Bill of Rights that is fairly clear on the matter.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
by dillydally fairies of course, who could it be.
Read radical news here
The very fact that Franco rose to power and established his fascist government at the very same time the neighboring countries were liberated is a huge indicator that fascism wasn't that much of a problem for the western governments/elites than the threat of a social revolution posed.
While after Europe was rid of the plague of German fascism the socialists/workers in Spain struggled against their own fascist dictator, who was backed by the usual suspects (i.e. a bigger part of the military and the old 'elite') and ignored by all of the allied governments who were just too busy celebrating their "victory" over fascism. If the fighting in WWII had really been for the sake of protecting democracy and fighting fascism the very fact of Franco, being an overt authoritarian fascist ruler, should have made him an enemy, not "neutral"!
This concept was continued by the new superpower to rise after WWII, the US. And there is ample evidence in the events that happened ever since and the situation at this very moment that the socialist movement was seen as a far greater problem than fascism ever was. Just have a look at the history of the countries of Indochina, Iran, Iraq and a host of South American countries during the "Cold" War. You'll see time and again that democratically elected socialist governments were violently disposed followed by an authoritarian/fascist corrupt governments with the support of the US military/intelligence.
And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
And by that I mean switch those wooden pieces for "radioactive pieces"...
"What will happen to Kasparov? Will he end in the same fate?"
Polonium.
~X~
~X~
Overall, though, a good go through the propaganda fed to Russian citizens today from all the government-run TV channels, newspapers etc. You Westerners reading this might want to take a closer look, particularly at the statement that "West is still very unfriendly toward russia, and thats why you see rennovation of nuclear stock pile". It might explain a lot to you, especially those who still remember the Cold War days.
Your words have much truth in them. I wish it were not so but it is. The hypocrisy you describe is why people who see all the BS surrounding them are disillusioned with politics.
As I type this from "Camp Victory"(oh the irony), Baghdad, Iraq I have to wonder if the current administration is capable of managing any country where we defeated the standing government and were responsible for managing that country afterwards.
Russia would probably be run by opposing mafia and a corrupt government, and all the while more and more soldiers are committed to the country under the guise of "winning the war on terror."
I wonder how Vietnam would have worked out, if we actually won there. I suppose W and Co. weren't in charge then though, so maybe it would've worked out
Here's to the crazy ones
I think that you're missing the point of my post. The original question in this thread was about the other side of the story. I gave basically a summary of the official story, which was not included in TFA or widely discussed in the US/European media. In my experience, lenta.ru is relatively neutral in their coverage, hence the choice of their image gallery.
The basic problem in discussing details of Russian political issues on Slashdot is that most readers here cannot understand the original reports in Russian, nor appreciate the host of the underlying cultural issues. Accordingly, Slashdot is not a good forum to debate Russian politics (I am actually surprised that this story made the front page). My comparison to another highly controversial issue--anti-globalization--was simply a way to indicate that reasonable people may disagree on their interpretation of the events. Neither the government nor the opposition have my personal full sympathy, but fortunately I can afford that view as an outsider.
I don't do YouTube if I can help it, but I did read the LJ story that you suggested. The author does explicitly say that he had no trouble getting to the square where the meeting was officially allowed (although he says that others may had trouble getting there). He does describe substantial security measures, and some police activity in the subway, but nothing that applied to him personally (other than passing through metal detectors). He also explicitly says that the police attempts to disperse the meeting only started well after the officially alloted time ran out, at which point the organizers announced that the meeting was over and people should leave. Again, one may argue about the amount of force used to disperse the people who refused to leave or whether pre-meeting security measures were overblown, but technically even that report from the participant does not contradict the main points of the official story.
As for national-bolsheviks, yes, they are not the only opposition party and I never intended to imply that they were. Some others are better, and some are worse. The LJ description of the sanctioned meeting does say that the approximately 300 national-bolsheviks were the rowdiest bunch there--constantly burned orange torches and yelled "Revolution!"--so they are not exactly behaving like a mainstream Western "unitarian/democratic socialist party" yet.
You mean a few thousand people in 150m country? Where like 80% of folks would vote for Putin if he was running for the office again?
I would call them anomaly.
Unfortunately Russians never had anything reassembling democracy and I doubt this is going to change anytime soon. I would love to be proven wrong, though. The Orange Revolution in the Ukraine had shown us that it's not impossible in a post-soviet state. Tell what you want about the outcome of it, but people are no longer afraid to protest on the streets.
As for the grandparent post, I'm for one very happy that US wanted to fight commies. As are most of people in Central and Eastern Europe, I guess...
I see where you're coming from, and I understand what you're saying. I don't think you're right, but I also don't think you're wrong; it's just that the analogy doesn't carry great - it's apples and oranges, both ways. I do, however, believe that these are issues that are important (freedom, security, power, responsibility) to us, and we should discuss them as such. It's unfortunate that usually emotion gets involved because these are emotional issues, after all. I think dialog is great, regardless of your position or my position.
I'd like to prompt you with something that immediately came to mind, and see what your thoughts are on it; "The second protects the first". I thought of it and realized how odd that a seemingly polarizing issue would seem to bridge the political gaps between all parties, or at least most parties. What do you think?
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
The Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) was started as an insurrection from a fascist movement, intended to finish the Second Spanish Republic While the fascist movement was backed by both German-Nazi and Italian-fascist movements, the Spanish Republic was backed just by volunteers, known as International Brigades; the external Nazi supplies was key for defeating the democratic goverment by the fascists.
Despite the sad result, I disagree with your arguments; in my opinion, the Nazi/fascist movement was *neglected* until Germany invaded Poland (1939). That is why I can not agree with your argument: the "world" was not "terribly busy" in 1936, at least not Europe (I know that USA was still recovering from its 1929/1930 recession), Europe could have done *a lot more* for Spain at the time. Well, I hope we'll learn from past mistakes, although I'm not that optimistic.
True, the Spanish War ended in 1939 and a lot of the "trouble makers" were executed to quell any future potential for a new uprising. The thing is that a man came into power whose ideology and policies were in line with those of people like Hitler, Stalin, Pinochet or Saddam Hussein, yet no one seemed to care. Instead, (military) interventions were conducted all over the world and all of them ignored, sometimes even supported fascist dictatorships. After the rest of Europe was liberated, Spain was left to endure a dictatorship that lasted until Franco's death some 40 years later. Note that in 1953 Eisenhower and Franco signed the Pact of Madrid through which (fascist) Spain received economic aid while the US was allowed to establish military bases on Spanish territory.
And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
Russia has to defend itself from China nearby, as it is still growing. And they need land and resources. NATO is squeezing russia from each side, NATO fighters placed in Estonia, always taunt russian forces. In general West is still very unfriendly toward russia, and thats why you see rennovation of nuclear stock pile.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps one of the reasons that the West isn't so thrilled with Russia is that they have a man like Vladimir Putin running the show?
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
A 3-minute video of this protest, Kasparov's arrest, and Kasparov's remarks was posted on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzKhQWVb5-A
Check out my women's designer clothing store.
As it stands, many people here just feel that, while they are fighting for Western values, the West does not really care, as long the gas flows through the pipes to the right destination. And we know that we cannot win this fight on our own. Were it not for that, I'm sure there would have been quite a few more people marshing. If the West took notice and made some actions, getting beaten up by the police would at least have some purpose to it.
Kasparov is someone like Gapon (this name tells everything to anyone who studied the history of Russian revolution). Kasparov was allowed to take the lead of this protest forces because his political image is disgusting (really), and 99% of these who otherwise would support protesters (and there are a lot of things to protest against) are going to turn away in disgust. The whole ordeal was staged and masses were led into the trap. It was quite possible to just guard this meeting and nobody would notice it at all. But the government used this tactics to make sure that everybody who fights against current ruling party "Edinaya Rossia" get a bad-bad-bad image on TV screen. Nobody in sane mind here is going to support Kasparov. That's what the government wants: opposition is led by someone who is not going to get any reasonable support among thinking people.
Actually there IS a shortage of the land right now. The appetite for bribery from officials is enormous and it's kinda funny to read when officials from a small town in Siberia complain that there is no land for new house buildings. There are thousands of kilometers of raw forests around, but they say NO, you can't build there. And unless you pay huge bribes and fill mounts of paperwork you can't build. And property prices shoot through the roof (average 3-room flat in Moscow cost about $300k, yep, $300000).
I must be a minority here on Slashdot, because I haven't studied history of the Russian revolution, so I know not who Gapon is.
Also, it would be nice if you could back up your dislike of Kasparov with any factual evidence instead of mere name-calling.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Russia has to defend itself from China nearby, as it is still growing. And they need land and resources. NATO is squeezing russia from each side, NATO fighters placed in Estonia, always taunt russian forces. In general West is still very unfriendly toward russia, and thats why you see rennovation of nuclear stock pile.
Let's see...
Considering that the Soviet Union stole Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania as the result of WWII and killed supporters of the Hungarian Revolution in 1956 and the Prague Spring of 1968, can you blame these countries for not trusting Mother Russia? My ex-fiancee was Ukrainian and her great grandparents were killed by Stalin's henchmen while her grandfather, a child at the time, was forced to watch them die, because they were Ukrainian nationalists. Mother Russia's "love" comes with a terrible price that many don't want to pay. So that is why the Baltic States and the Warsaw Pact countries rushed to join NATO - it's the only way to insure that Mother Russia won't invade them again. Russia may feel "squeezed", but it is only because of its past actions.
Compared to Putin he's in a very weak position. And as you've just pointed out, he's played well and is now in a stronger position than before.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Then why are we arguing???
There is lots of land, but the cost of laying down new communications is really high and skyrockets the cost of any new developments. I'm only writing this because I live in a small town in Siberia :)
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
He violates a law and gets arrested for it,... what's unique about it. He seems to be extremely unpopular in Russian. He is not part of Russian political life in any way (being unpopular make it rather hard to play politics in democracies). Will slashdot let us know if and when he gets a parking ticket? I bet this would be even more existing.
Clearly you don't know russia, and system of polical and power counterweight. Russian economy has been modernised and ivestments are pouring in. Contrary to the "free" countries where Bush & Co sponsored revolutions. Their economies in the state of disarray. And and the moment them becoming free, the had military bases placed there, guess whose are those? And the west turns their back on them. They aren't part of EU and they have broken all ties off from Russia and nighbours. The whole freedom stuff, bandaid form purported singlehandedly by USA and funded to the tune of 40 - 80 US dollars each. They aren't free people uprising.
Really russians can reinstate, its control over Estonia.
As well you have failed to notice that most revolutions / major shifts in economic processes within contries, lead by USA, have lead to dismal failures. Thats why China tells them to stay the fuck out. And thats why they are doing relatively well. Look to the countries in South america and guided former states of soviet union.
NATO planes that patrol in the Baltic air space are dislocated in Siauliai air base, Lithuania. There are like 4 of them, if I remember correctly.
Gapon was an agent provocateur, who led people into the trap in 1905. Gapon organized workers into the mob and led them into the demonstration to bring the petition to the tzar, at the same time he talked to police to organize a shooting squadron. The intent was to scare workers away from doing strikes. The result: Bloody Sunday. about 100 killed and 300 wounded. This incident started 1905-1907 revolution.
Also, it would be nice if you could back up your dislike of Kasparov with any factual evidence instead of mere name-calling.
Kasparov is well-known for his support for chechen terrorists. That alone is enough to alienate 99% of Russian people. And there is much, much more than that... Western politicians did a grave mistake bidding on Kasparov, it's a sure way to turn Russian people towards Edinaya Rossia party, because they see no real choice. It was a very clever move by Russian government to let Kasparov slide into the public light and lead the opposition.