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Spyware Maker Sues Anti-Spyware Maker
prostoalex writes "An 'online media company' Zango, which gained notoriety for redirecting adult affiliate traffic and the first ever MySpace worm, is now suing the anti-spyware vendor PC Tools, maker of an application called 'Spyware Doctor', for removing Zango applications off the consumers' PCs. 'According to a posting on a blog called Spamnotes.com, Zango is seeking at least $35 million in damages, alleging that Spyware Doctor removes Zango's software without warning users that it will be deleted. The lawsuit was filed Tuesday in King County Superior Court in Seattle, according to Spamnotes.com. Formerly known as 180solutions, Zango is trying to clean up its tarnished reputation. In November it paid $3 million to settle U.S. Federal Trade Commission charges that its software was being installed deceptively on PCs.'"
This is like Osama Bin Laden filing a federal lawsuit in Washington D.C. alleging that George W. Bush is interfering with Bin Laden's rights to advance the agenda of fundamentalist Islam and kill innocent Americans.
that would show google.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
What next, assassin sues police for preventing him doing his job?
"Zango is trying to clean up its tarnished reputation"
...but isn't Zango's reputation based on tarnish?
No, no sig. Really.
ThePromenader
I dare say there will be a fair few jokes made along the lines of "that's like Jeffrey Dahmer suing young boys for being so delectable and tasty", but I think that misses the point that this issue highlights - that all lawyers should be put in a shuttle and sent directly into the centre of the sun.
Between the falling angel and the rising ape
How the hell can a company that bases it's business on 'sneaky' software installs complain about 'sneaky' software removal. It isn't even sneaky at that, those people put anti-spyware software on their PC to recieve a desired result. In any event, the pot can't call the kettle black.
Zango has been providing innovative and useful software that helps users learn about quality products while simultaneously using their computer for other tasks, saving the user valuable time. It was very wrong of Spyware Doctor to not warn the user. I hope Zango wins. Anyhow, I'm off to go look for more smilies and mouse cursors to complement my Bonzai Buddy.
I know I used to force myself upon you, repeatedly, with no remorse, but I was thinking seeing as I have asked that you allow me to, and that I have changed my name now, you may voluntarily sleep with me?
...because otherwise, how will I pay for new hardware for my Linux boxes, if I can't charge all those Windows users to remove that Zango shit from their computers?
(((Seriously, though - I hope Zango gets their asses handed to them on a platter in court. This is effing ridiculous...)))
For the same reason censorship and copyright enforcement is hard on the Internet, apparently killing spam, scam, phishing and spyware companies is quite much harder than their "real life" equivalents.
(Internet spanning the whole globe, while the laws aren't, decentralization, anonymity, vague and undetermined terminology and legal status of various online activities etc.)
You gotta know though, this is all going on because the Internet is so young. If the beaurocrats in the various countries get their act together, in 30-40 years such abnormalities as a spyware distirbutor suing antispyware distributor will be for all practical purposes, impossible. But it will also mean we may need to fill a bunch of forms and go through a series of expensive tests before publishing software and sites on the Internet.
The signs of this are already coming from Microsoft where you need to signs your exe files for "authenticity", and "comspulsory" game rating requirement of Vista, and the more expensive "trustworthy" certificates initiative that the major browser makers are engaged into.
because suing all the individual users who actually pressed "scan" would be far too low a cost:benefit.
oh, wait - next week we'll see a patent for the reverse-class-action-suit.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
If the company is trying to improve their image, this is not the way to go about it. In fact it makes them look even more evil than before.
I have no pity for Zango whatsoever. I am sure you remember the days of trying to remove Zango through the "supported uninstaller." Uninstalling Zango often left a corrupt registry, files still on the hard drive, and/or didn't actually remove anything. I hope Zango looses this one very badly and attorneys fees and court costs force them to reconsider stupidity. Unscrupulous marketing schemes like Zango and it's former name deserve nothing. Only on the internet can the "criminal" sue the "good guy" and win. The whole thing is positively laughable.
This lawsuit will be out on it's ass in no time - just look at what the experts say!
Zango now bills itself as an online media company whose products are critical to the Internet.
And I can call myself the Queen of England all I want, but it doesn't make it so.
I think with history that this company has shown they're a goner. Oh, and it's a common practice by companies that get a bad reputation, whether with the Better Business Bureau, State, or whomever, to go and change their name. And then under the new name; business as usual until they get another bad reputation.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
Imagine what come back out of that unholy batch of DNA!
/my mistake
//no one saw Superman IV
///of course,if it was the second of three spaceships...
////nope...that wouldn't work either
They'll NEVER be able to repair all the damage they've already done to uncountable numbers of systems. Puking maggots, may they rot in hell!
Changing their name isn't going to help either. Zango? Ptui, I _speet_ on Zango!
(yeah, I know, "Now tell us how you _really_ feel.")
I hate to mention this, but isn't there a provision of the DMCA that they can claim that removal tools violates? Circumvention or some such?
I'm not even remotely suggesting that I agree with the lawsuit, and I fervently hope they get countersued out of business. But I am suggesting that it's possible they have a real claim under the screwed up IP laws in this country. I wonder if this isn't one of those lawsuits that may ultimately end up with a desperately needed revision of those laws. It's really too much to hope for, I suppose.
(Although, on a side note, a little bit of me notes that they don't make unix os type products. Thus they do, sort of left handedly, support OS's I'm fond of.)
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Now if we just include the telephone sanatizers and the hairdressers...
Recently I has the misfortune to come accross Zango (was looking for a video codec) I'm running a Vista PC so Zango refused to install and yet windows defender still picked up the three applications it installed on my system. These three programs were left on ther system after Zango had informed me it can't install. Spybot identified two of the applications as Adware and the final as Malware.
When your programs isntallation puts three unwanted applications on a PC even when it fails to install causing a owner to install a Anti-virus package because their concerned with what else it might have put on there then your company doesn't have a reputation worth anything and if Spybot, Microsoft and every AV/Anti-Spyware company wants to black list you power to them.
Oh this was yesterday afternoon and while I don't keep A/V software running I'm very pro firewalls
I can't tell you how many times I've heard about a burglar suing the homeowner because he hurt himself in the process of robbing the home and won the lawsuit.
Kickass Cheap Web Hosting
I hereby declare Shenanigans on Zango - SHENANIGANS!!!
alleging that Spyware Doctor removes Zango's software without warning users that it will be deleted.
What about Zango's spyware installing itself WITHOUT WARNING USERS that it will be installed?
Truth is stranger than fiction, that's for sure.
I think maybe it's time we took the spyware companies to court for using our cpu cycles without compensation.
The other point that this issue highlights is that if you don't control your property (computer, in this case) people will jump in and mess it up.
Think about it while you're getting those TCP modules hooked up.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
"If you want a box of lawyers into the sun, you gotta do it yourself!"
...Zango is in [the] right, and Spyware Doctor should at least [give] notice [of] what it is doing to its users.Spyware Doctor does give notice of what it does: it removes software that its developers judge to be spyware. If the user opines that the tool comes up with too many false positives, then they may uninstall it at any time and use any of several other tools out there.
If you believe that there has been a false positive here, then write to the developers to suggest they change it. But don't support frivolous lawsuits.
Stop. I don't "support" the lawsuit. I only say that Zango might be correct in its opinion. If I were to choose, I would love to judge Zango to be incorrect. But, legally, if Spyware Doctor does not mention that "spyware" is considered as "those tools which our developers judge as spyware" in any route to removing such spyware, then Zango is correct.
I think we all agree that the DMCA is bad, but let's not go around invoking its name when it is not at all relevant to the discussion. Please, at least read the first paragraph of the Wikipedia entry.
Hey now. I didn't vote for the bloody bastard.
You can't take the sky from me.
What really has me wondering is this: Isn't spyware a subcategory of trojans and isn't distributing those effectively called hacking? I.e. illegal break and entry into a computer system or whatever it's called in US legal terms? I'm suprised a 'spyware company' would step so far out into the open let alone attract attention by sueing people/companies. What is stopping Homeland Security or any other of the new nazi-style US agencies (pardon the polemics) from raiding their offices and imprisoning everybody in site without trial for 'enemy combatant terrorist activities' or something.? I'd actually try to get something like that rolling if I lived in the US and some spyware company woukld start sueing me.
They sure have some guts.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
We need judges with the gumption to say "Contempt of court for bringing such an egregiously frivolous case! Ninety days in jail! And double that for your slimy no-good excuse for a lawyer!"
Sigh. These grammatical debates get quite tiresome--especially when someone wants to change what is correct to something incorrect.
"Choose" is the present-tense form, in both the indicative and the subjunctive.
"Chose" is the past-tense form of the same verb.
This is not a case of using one verb where a similar verb is correct (as in the confusion between loose and lose). This is a matter of tense. The question "Why not choose it?" is a present-time construction.
Please choose to be careful.
Kind of reminds me of the case in the UK where prisoners can sue (and be awarded many thousands of pounds) for not being supplied recreational drugs whilst in prison. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6142416.stm
I've had paid for Spyware Doctor running alongside Ad-Aware, Spybot S&D & AVG. It's never found a thing.
Obviously I'm running with a good crowd.
In soviet USA, spyware company sues YOU! Oh wait...
Can Zango provide a verifiable list of their "customers" who are actually complaining that it was removed?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I'd like to see *you* removed from the *planet* without your permission!
I'd feel a lot more sympathy for them if they could come up with one non-shill who actually wanted the Zango software installed.
I don't read AC A human right
[just kidding]
Zango has infested millions of PCs and caused tens of millions of dollars worth of damages...
Zango is an actual company that has offices here in the USA...
Zango's offices are presumably flammable...
Why is Zango still causing problems?
[/just kidding]
they don't make unix os type products
There aren't enough people using "unix os type products..."
and those who are usually don't have any money anyway.
(sorry, just kidding...)
"Zango representatives were arrested this week as they showed up for court due to a lawsuit against PC Tools. The representatives of PC Tools were happy to help the Department of Justice crack down on illegal spyware makers, so needless to say, PC Tools won their case."
Big mistake on Zango's part. Now comes discovery, a searching examination of Zango's business practices to answer the relevant question "Is Zango evil"?
Notice that the US harbors 95% of the worlds xtians. Coincidence? I didn't think so. All nations should boycott all imports from the US and export non-stop to the US to collapse their economy.
Signed
The Atheist Voice
"Formerly known as 180solutions, Zango is trying to clean up its tarnished reputation."
Hmmmmm.....
"Clean up its tarnished reputation" or "sweep all the dirt under the rug and hope Lady Justice doesn't find it"?
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
...and that Zango goes down in flames. Anything that deliberately makes my PC do unintended things, should be removed.
Or you could go and get a better Linux distro
What's next, virus/trojan/worm writers suing anti-virus software companies because their software removes said program(s) without warning users that it will be deleted?
Besides, isn't it already inferred that the anti-spyware program will remove whatever spyware it finds? I mean, that's why people install anti-spyware programs to begin with, so that it will remove whatever spyware it finds. That's what it is designed to do.
>>This is like Osama Bin Laden filing a federal lawsuit in Washington D.C. alleging that George W. Bush is interfering with Bin Laden's rights to advance the agenda of fundamentalist Islam and kill innocent Americans.
If 180 Solutions was suing Microsoft for making their jobs so damned easy, that would be a proper analogy.
The advance of fundamentalist Islam has been set into overdrive. And there are suddenly thousands of American within arms reach and thousands dead. You don't sue a gift horse. I would recommend Al Capone suing the Untouchables or some, at least, apt metaphor. Some of us Slashdotters have paid attention to the news in the last four years.
It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.
>>> "Zango is trying to clean up its tarnished reputation. In November it paid $3 million to settle U.S. Federal Trade Commission charges that its software was being installed deceptively on PCs."
Well they may be trying to clean their reputation but shouldn't they do that by either exonerating themselves in court or by admitting their "sins" and repenting (not doing it again). Paying someone off so they don't get found out doesn't sound to me like cleaning up their reputation.
FUD
I was wondering how this post was so stupid.
Then I saw your UID#.
You're stupid. Your post is stupid. Your formatting is stupid. Your point is stupid.
Please don't breed.
I am finding myself torn...
Which is lower on the food chain, in greater need to be extinguished like a bad case of herpes? Trial Lawyers or spyware/adware/virus writers?
Its getting pretty hard to decide these days. Especially THESE particular lawyers. "OK, so your product is installed surreptitiously, yet TECHNICALLY legal since you did inform them that you are installing it (even tho I as a lawyer have a hard time understanding the language in which you phrased it). Now you want me to sue somebody that is removing your product after the consumer was clearly told what was being done? Uh.... OK, I'll take the case."
Makes me want to take a shower even thinking of these guys.
If their complaint is that the antispyware doesn't inform the user that it's removing Zango. Would it be better for them if it comes up a dialog
"Suspicious software from Zango, inc. has been detected on your computer. Our research has found that this particular program from Zango, inc. has 99% of the characteristics of adware or malware. Do you want to delete these suspicious Zango, inc. applications?'
If the 'New Zango' has no malware, no spyware. then why would a antispyware program remove their new programs? If the antispyware used standards such as 'slows down computing power, inefficient and does nothing substantial' then half the Windows OS would be flagged.
I think that misses the point that this issue highlights - that all lawyers should be put in a shuttle and sent directly into the centre of the sun.
Because of course, the actual companies involved had nothing to do with filing the lawsuits. Everyone knows that without lawyers, there would be no conflict between individuals or between companies.
Also, lawyers have never done anything useful. If they hadn't gotten involved, we'd still be able to keep minorities from voting, and companies would be able to pollute with abandon. I long for the good old days, when all disputes were settled with spears and clubs.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
The image versus the reality.
I think he actually meant "Only in the US of A".
I've often said that lawyer should not be allowed to run for, or hold public office. It's a conflict of interest.
If non-lawyers had to write the laws, things would be much different. And I mean that in a good way.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
if zango is going to complain about a silent removal from its symbiote, perhaps in fairness a statement like the following:
"Hi, i'm zango, i'm a piece of spyware and i'm just going to go ahead and load myself on your PC and i really don't give a dingo's kidney what you might happen to think about that. also, please ignore the impending additional charges to your credit card, viewable on next month's statement"
should be shown when zango attacks in the first place...
I know that we've come to the point that many products don't do most of the things they promise to do, but is it really to the point that running a program for it's stated purpose isn't notice enough that it will perform that function?
Face it Zango, you produce malware and a user running software to kill malware is already quite aware that your crap will be removed (and they're happy to see it go).
This Zango?
Contact Info
Zango Headquarters
3600 136th Place SE
Bellevue, WA 98006
HOLY FUCK!!!
I posted an objective opinion about what will happen next. This was considered troll, score -1, while ChameleonDave's opinion (which might be based on false facts!) was considered 5, informative?
There's a lot of stuff good on this site, but this freedom-of-speech-screwing moderation in nonsense!
This moderation act was just based on the moderator being irritated by Zango's business!
NOT sorry for the swearing.
Everyone's already said what I felt but I LOL'ed.
Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. -Mahatma Ghandi