Ask Turbine's Jeff Anderson About LOTRO

Last month, Turbine's Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar went live in what was arguably the most well-received launch for a Massively Multiplayer game since World of Warcraft. The game soared to the top of the retail charts, and has been a breath of fresh air for gamers looking to get a taste of something just a little bit different and a little bit hobbity. Today, you have the chance to ask Turbine's CEO Jeff Anderson questions about the process of creating the game, the Tolkien license, and new content we'll see in Middle Earth in the coming weeks and months. One question per comment, please. We'll take the best of the lot and put them to Mr. Anderson in a phone interview later this week. We'll post his responses as soon as we can, so make sure to get your question in today if you want it to show up in his response.

Comments

Virtual Economies

[Raindance]

Can you talk a little bit about the challenges involved in setting up a virtual economy? Did you employ any professional economists to help design in the design or was it all off-the-cuff?

Re:Virtual Economies

[Puff of Logic]

The idea of crafting systems in MMORPGs seem to be very popular with the player base, with many individuals quite content to pursue crafting to the exclusion of most other things. Two problems seem to intractable, though: low-level items flood the server and are therefore worthless; and one cannot advance a character's level as a crafter. In WoW, for example, many crafting recipes/skills are restricted by level, necessitating players to grind mobs for the appropriate levels.

How does LotRO plan to handle these problem as the player-base expands? Is it possible that players will be allowed to gain experience from crafting rather than by mob-grinding or quests? Will it be feasible for an individual to gain renown on a server as a master craftsman (which should be extremely difficult to attain) if they only want to spend their time in Bree rather than strangling Orcs?

Re:Virtual Economies

[EvilMagnus]

It seems that it's part of the 'MMO Design 101' that if you have Crafting, you must tie crafting to level advancement. I suspect out of some misplaced desire to keep people on the leveling treadmill out of a belief that only the level treadmill keeps people paying their monthly subscriptions.

I'd love for crafting to be divorced from level advancement, and for crafted goods to be worth more to vendors than the sum of their components - but that, too, seems to be a requirement of MMO Design 101.

Re:Virtual Economies

[crossmr]

its really only flamebait if its untrue.. perhaps the person who modded that down would actually bother to demonstrate where they thought any effort was put in to the creation of the economy?

Re:Virtual Economies

[MontyApollo]

I don't know if it would be good or bad, but if crafting was separate, I bet a lot of players would use their main character for gathering and have an alt character or two camped in Bree to do all their crafting. I would. Some people do this to a degree now, but you have to level up both your crafter and gatherer for them to be any good.

It would probably make the economy more complex and more difficult to balance. It could be more interesting though.

Re:Virtual Economies

[SScorpio]

Final Fantasy XI had a crafting system where the character level was not tied to the crafting level. You could reach the maximum crafting level without ever leveling your character. There were artificial barriers due to the acquiring components of later items.

Crafted items can never sell to a vendor for more than the sum of their components. If this was the case people would just plan up shop next to a vendor and setup a macro to keep buying the components and then selling off the finished products to the vendor and then keep adding new gold to the economy. Overtime gold would become worthless and the economy would fail.

A properly designed crafting system should have every craft item be worth something in the game to other players. Make the finished product of the lower levels be components for the higher level items. A higher crafting level player could then spend time on creating hundreds of these lower level components or buy them off a low level crafter. Final Fantasy XI is like this; however, the crafting grinding is horrible and there are many worthless items used to level with. LotR:Online seems to have a slightly better system from what I saw in the brief time I played the open beta.

Re:Virtual Economies

[PhilipMckrack]

Everquest had it right in the beginning too. It was possible to be a 200 skill in all tradeskills at player level 1, provided you could buy the components from people that were levelling and not skilling. It was expensive and hard, but if all you wanted to do was become a master craftsman and not adventure all day it was possible.

It all changed when they first started creating no-drop crafted items which made the levellers want to skill up to be able to make the item for themselves. They followed that up by increasing tradeskill max levels with alternate advancement (experience) points, which directly tied tradeskills to player level. Those two moves killed the tradeskill community in Everquest.

I understand why they did this. The game developers wanted every player to grind through both levels and tradeskills since more time in game equals more money in subscriptions, but it really took the fun out of the game for alot of tradeskillers and to be honest, most of the people into the level grind didn't really enjoy tradeskills either.

Re:Virtual Economies

[EvilMagnus]

Crafted items can never sell to a vendor for more than the sum of their components. If this was the case people would just plan up shop next to a vendor and setup a macro to keep buying the components and then selling off the finished products to the vendor and then keep adding new gold to the economy. Overtime gold would become worthless and the economy would fail.

There are ways to do this right - it's how 'real' economies work, after all - they're just much, much harder than making sure the finished good is worth less than the component parts. ;-)

MMO economies already have massive inflation (in the classic sense - the money supply is constantly increasing), right from Day 0, since wealth is created ab initio every time you kill a mob and sell the drops as vendor trash. If you allow the creation of wealth from mob drops, why not from crafting outcomes? The simple reason is because developers use Crafting as a money sink, to try to suck up some of that money created from mob drops and vendor trash sales. So any crafting system that breaks the 'sum of components' rule must touch on more than just the crafting system. And since the crafting system is usually done in a (relative) vacuum from other development tasks... well, that makes it really hard to do.

I *think* (never played, but heard from others) that SWG addressed this before the Reset.

Re:Virtual Economies

[harl]

There are many MMPOGs that in no way tie crafting to character level. UO and EQ did this almost 10 years ago.

Re:Virtual Economies

[EvilMagnus]

Yes, I know. You said it yourself, though : ten years ago. And they were both 'first to market' MMOs.

So, what has changed? Is the current 'state of the art' a step backwards?

Re:Virtual Economies

[llefler]

What changed is the developers felt that players exploited the system. Back in Asheron's Call pretty much everyone had specialized characters for crafting. Create a new character, run it through a few of the easy low levels to build up stats, then take crafting skills and use your regular character to get supplies. Before long you had a level 5 or 10 character that was maxed out in a particular crafting ability. I liked it because it enhanced my ability to solo.

Re:Virtual Economies

[EvilMagnus]

Yeah, and I liked it too - there's nothing wrong with having supporting characters. Conan wasn't a Master Swordsmith. You never saw Gimli dash off to mine some Barrow Iron. Superman never stopped to harvest power crystals. ;)

There *should* be nothing wrong with having specialist, PC tradespeople... and not requiring them to be high level fighters to be good at their trade. I guess someone, somewhere decided that it helps player retention rates if you force people to level their crafting characters, too.

Re:Virtual Economies

[wizzahd]

Why not give players who would rather not focus on combat experience for practicing their trade? For example, a rogue who specializes in lockpicking/locksmithing gains X experience for opening a box of Y difficulty, dependant on his level. That way the character can advance in the game and the player gets fullfilment by practicing his skills. Seems win-win to me.

Re:Virtual Economies

[EvilMagnus]

It does indeed!

I don't know if it's a mindset thing, or if there's a deeper mystery I'm just not seeing here, but it seems to me that the one thing the player has to offer the world is their time (and, with that time, a monthly credit charge ;-) ) - and they should be rewarded for spending their time in-world, no matter what they're doing. CoH, WoW and LOTRO do give out tiny amounts of XP / goodies for non-combat activities (mostly one-off dings for discovering places on the map) but they're superficial extras to the overall game - they don't let you impact the core game in any significant way.

Re:Virtual Economies

[wizzahd]

I actually grabbed that example from a MUD called Gemstone that I used to play. It's class and level based, and due to the way it handles skills it makes each profession valuable and really gives you a role in the world. Not to mention there aren't a bunch of annoying 1337$@uC3r$ running around trying to sell you gold and/or being dipshits in general. It's a good game.

Re:Virtual Economies

[harl]

I don't understand what you're talking about. Nothing has changed. When MMPOGS first started they didn't have crafting ties to level. Current MMPOGs don't have crafting ties to level.

Yes both those are first to market. However 2 recent game, Vanguard and LOTRO[1], both have level independant crafting. In Vanguard you have 3 levels. Diplomacy, Crafting, and Adventuring. EQ2 doesn't tie crafting to char level. DAOC didn't have level based crafting. That covers the whole history of mass market MMPOGs.

I fail to see how it's MMPOG 101 to tie crafting to level. There are plenty examples of both ways going back decades.

[1]From my play experiences in Beta.

Re:Virtual Economies

[vux984]

If you allow the creation of wealth from mob drops, why not from crafting outcomes?

One reason is that crafting is MUCH easier to macro. And your ability to generate wealth is only limited by the speed at which your macro can run.

I wonder

[Anonymous Coward]

How can I mine fish in LOTRO?

Re:I wonder

[maroberts]

You can only mine fish if you're Gollum

Any plans for a

[bealzabobs_youruncle]

Direct X 10 client in the future? I haven't gone to Vista yet, but that might drive me if it made an already great looking game even better.

Re:Any plans for a

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenGL client in the future? I haven't gone to Linux yet, but that might drive me if it made an already great looking game even better.

Re:Any plans for a

[bealzabobs_youruncle]

Since this game is part of the "Games for Windows" logo program your attempt at a point is completely useless.

Gaming Addiction

[Raindance]

Behavioral addiction in general, and gaming addiction specifically, are increasingly on society's radar. Now, being addicted to an online game is obviously different from being addicted to heroin- but it can still be extremely serious and destructive for geeks with addictive personalities. Do you think being attentive to gaming addiction is a responsibility of MMORPG developers? What steps has Turbine taken or considered?

Re:Gaming Addiction

[aabxx]

It's a messed up society we live in when we're asking game developers to not make their games too addictive.

If a game is extremely addictive, it basically means normal, healthy people will enjoy it a lot. The few mentally unstable who get too addicted... well... they can be sacrifised for the benefit of the greater good.

Certainly, game developers should not have any obligation whatsoever to make their games LESS addictive. That just sounds insane.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

Certainly, game developers should not have any obligation whatsoever to make their games LESS addictive. That just sounds insane.

I agree.

I don't want a game designer deliberately making the game less fun for ME because someone else can't balance their own life.

It is very popular for addicts to blame the thing to which they are addicted. It is always a nice ego-saving measure to externalize an internal problem. Making a game a lot of fun to play doesn't force one to play it, nor does it drive one to confuse his priorities and mess his life up. Those are all the addict's own fault, not the game's fault.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[butterflysrage]

we have controlls are other addictive behaviour... most regions have a restriction on bartenders that they can not sell to anyone who is already drunk, some areas have restictions on how long one can gamble in a day and we have age requirements on tobaco and alcohol. Is a similiar requirement too far out of line for games?

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes! Unless of course you want to start restricting television. Or for that matter time spent in front of a computer in general. Maybe then your argument will have merit. Oh, and also tobacco is a physical addiction.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

How about accountability for one's own actions? The only other addiction I can akin this to is gambling.

Although I support public awareness to educating people on addictive behaviors in general... I do not feel it should be the responsibility of the Developer (or Casino) to provide that.

Also, I've heard Running (as in jogging) can be addictive... Should Nike provide educational material on their running shoes packaging?

Re:Gaming Addiction

[JesseMcDonald]

Is a similiar requirement too far out of line for games?

Yes.

The other requirements were also out of line. They ought to be repealed, not used as a basis for further restrictions.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Nasarius]

You know, I despise the Libertarians around here who screech incessantly about a "nanny state", but think about what you're saying. The reason for laws mandating that bartenders cut people off is because excessive alcohol causes violence, DUI, etc. Age requirements on tobacco are a way of deterring cigarette companies from advertising to kids who haven't developed critical thinking skills, and getting them physically addicted to a drug. They're to prevent people (and businesses) from hurting other people.

The closest parallel you have here is gambling addiction. That's not pretty, and god knows most casinos are pretty scummy, but such addictions are entirely mental problems. It's absolutely not the responsibility of an otherwise honest game developer to cater to the mental health needs of a tiny minority who are predisposed to such obsessions.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

So, really, you're asking if the game is hobbit-forming?

Re:Gaming Addiction

[DrEldarion]

So you think we should be selling vodka and cigs to 7th graders?

Re:Gaming Addiction

[joggle]

I don't think it's out of line but I do think it isn't really possible for game developers to do much to decrease gaming addiction (other than writing less addictive games). Even if they limit the amount of time you could spend playing a particular MMORPG per day/week the person could just own a couple of MMORPGs and switch from one to the other when the limit is reached. They could encourage people to take breaks from time to time like the Wii but I doubt it would be very effective.

I once had a roommate who had a terrible gaming addiction which led to him dropping out of college. He would play games on the Sega Saturn and Sega Dreamcast for over 12 hours every day. For cases like this I can't really imagine what a game developer can do to help the guy out.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[quantaman]

It's a messed up society we live in when we're asking game developers to not make their games too addictive.

If a game is extremely addictive, it basically means normal, healthy people will enjoy it a lot. The few mentally unstable who get too addicted... well... they can be sacrifised for the benefit of the greater good.

Certainly, game developers should not have any obligation whatsoever to make their games LESS addictive. That just sounds insane. If you make a product shouldn't you be somewhat responsible for the harmful effects of that product? I'm not saying it's the current case with MMORGS, I've never even played one so I can't really comment intelligently on it. But in the hypothetical scenario that a game maker found some way to make a game addictive enough so that significant portions of the population were adversely affected by it then shouldn't that game maker have some responsibility (at least a moral one) to try to reduce the addictive nature of it?

Note that addictiveness isn't necessarily synonymous with enjoyment.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[JesseMcDonald]

So you think we should be selling vodka and cigs to 7th graders?

Obviously not. I simply don't think you should be prohibited from doing so. You can still choose not to do so on your own, of course, and I think most decent people would make that choice.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[untaken_name]

You know, I despise the Libertarians around here who screech incessantly about a "nanny state", but think about what you're saying.

Ok...let's think.

The reason for laws mandating that bartenders cut people off is because excessive alcohol causes violence, DUI, etc.

First of all: alcohol doesn't cause anything. It may impair abilities, but it is not a determinant. Violent people cause violence. Irresponsible drivers cause DUIs. You seem to believe that people's actions are determined by third parties. They are not. While they may be influenced, they are determined by the actual person commiting the action. Final responsibility MUST rest with the individual except in cases of mental incapacity (which is difficult enough to determine sometimes).

Now, as to the bartender's fault, why do you believe that it is somehow better for a third party to determine your limit than for you to do so and stay within it? How would the bartender know when you're too drunk?

Age requirements on tobacco are a way of deterring cigarette companies from advertising to kids who haven't developed critical thinking skills, and getting them physically addicted to a drug.

There would be nothing preventing a store from setting their own policy. What about parents that know SO LITTLE about their own children that they can't tell when their children are physically addicted to an expensive, smelly substance? Why push the burden of enforcement, along with the corresponding burden of punishment, to the vendors? Why can't it be the responsibility of the parents? Don't the kids have to get the money for the things they buy somewhere?

They're to prevent people (and businesses) from hurting other people.

Well, then, why are there no laws against selling fatty food? Why not just go all the way and assign a government monitor to every house to make sure no one ever hurts anyone with anything? Laws do not equal morality. They never will. If you doubt me, look to the number of drug users in prison. They all knew that what they were doing was illegal.

I do honestly laud your desire to hold people accountable, I just believe you're holding the wrong people accountable. It ALL comes back to personal responsibility.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this "I need a nanny", attitude. When did this kick in, fully? You should not spill really really hot coffee on yourself.
You should not use a lawn mower as a 2-man hedge trimmer. You should not breathe large amounts of smoke, regardless of the medium.
Most importantly, you should not expect profit driven businesses to look out for you, the consumer.

The reason "gaming addiction" is increasingly on on society's radar, is because it is an easily sensationalized headline.
It is easy because too much time spent on the internet or playing video games is not socially acceptable. Another factor, would be the ability to sue cash rich parent corporations.

Nobody talks about T.V. addiction or work addiction. Why is the 5 hours average a night of sitting passively watching t.v. not a problem, but gaming is? Why is aggressivelly climbing the corporate ladder, with 90 hour work weeks not a problem?

A game creator is making an escape and that escape should be as awesome as possible. If you screw it up and kill yourself cause you stayed in the game for 5 days straight drinking red bull and eating no-doz and powerbars, it is your responsibility.

Unless the game is really the maker using some newly discovered and undisclosed mind control software to suck money out of your wallet, you are responsible.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

What steps did the maker of your keyboard take to prevent you from injuring yourself typing inane comments on the web? How about your mouse? Your shoes have poor arch support and therefore contribute to a bad back. You get the point...which is please don't use an awesome opportunity to talk to someone that can really affect the game with horrible questions. If your really that concerned hit the streets. There are millions of hard up people that I'm sure would love to listen to you lecture them about the troubles in life.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Knara]

I'd say no, otherwise card makers could be held responsible for the problems of gambling addicts.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[quantaman]

Not really, I think it's possible to make a reasonable judgement about things like this. A card maker isn't responsible for games that have negative effects on users, Microsoft isn't responsible if someone uses its flight simulator to practice crashing planes into buildings. However I think game makers should exercise some caution if they realize their product likely will have negative concequences such as addition with MMORGs or gratuitous violence with GTA (though there would certainly have to be some serious scientific research before there can be any talk of laws).

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Knara]

Cards have a much longer history of potentially harmful consequences than MMO's. I fail to see any meaningful difference, since both still enable a (potentially) addictive activity.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[quantaman]

Cards have a much longer history of potentially harmful consequences than MMO's. I fail to see any meaningful difference, since both still enable a (potentially) addictive activity. Again I think it has to do with the party who's most active in enabling the addiction (other than the addicted party themselves).

Should card companies have to take actions wrt to gambling addictions? I'd say no.

Should a casino have some responsibility in helping problem gamblers who use their services? I'd say yes.

Re:Gaming Addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

>Do you think being attentive to gaming addiction is a responsibility of MMORPG developers? What steps has Turbine taken or considered?

They give away the first shot for free to fix you on!

Re:Gaming Addiction

[dogmatixpsych]

How in the world did you get modded up Interesting? That was a well-crafted pun. +1 funny.

End Game

[MontyApollo]

Do you have a plan to deal with the destruction of the one ring, as in does the game end then? Any consideration of opening up the entire game map at that point for a massive PvP war?

Re:End Game

[Fozzyuw]

To expand on the OP's question, one of LOTRO's (which I play and I'm enjoying very much) biggest talking points is it's creative license. What's are some of the challenges, benefits, and surprises when working on a set story licenses? A license that has been around the bend many times from fan art, to multi-million dollar movies, to endless cartoon adaptations. Are there any challenges in creating something 'new' when there's so much already out there?

Re:End Game

[MontyApollo]

Oh, and a follow-up:

How many expansion packs will we have to PAY for to reach the end game? Right now we can only go as far as Rivendell; how many times and how much money to make it to Mordor?

Re:End Game

[OriginalArlen]

...endless cartoon adaptations...

Huh? There was only the one previous LotR film before the Jackson Three - it gallops through the first couple of books and stalls after Helm's Deep. I think it looks great, though - IIRC it's one of the first examples of rotoscoping.

Re:End Game

[MontyApollo]

Rankin and Bass or whoever it was that did "The Hobbit" cartoon also did a "Return of the King" cartoon movie (it sucked of course). That was why the Bashki (sp?) LoTR film stopped at Helm's Deep - somebody else had the rights to the last book.

I never understood though why in the LoTR cartoon they made Boromir into a viking.

WoW influence

[MacBrave]

What kind of influence did the overwhelming success of World of Warcraft have on the development of LOTRO?

Re:WoW influence

[Kleedrac2]

As an avid WoW player I always keep one eye open (no pun intended) to see what the next "big thing" is going to be. Why should I consider switching to your game and what advantages do you claim over WoW?

Re:WoW influence

[EvilMagnus]

Dude, have you played LOTRO online? "Inspired by WoW" would be a polite way of putting the similarities. :-)

It's clear that Turbine learned much from both the failure of AC2 and from the success of WoW ... in that they've copied wholesale many of the 'good bits' of WoW. It seems the game might be described as 'WoW 2.0' or 'WoW: Tolkien Total Conversion Mod'. I mean that in a good way, of course: LOTRO's great fun. But it's clearly standing on the shoulders of WoW.

Re:WoW influence

[kitsunewarlock]

...Wow was just everquest in a new world, with a much cleaner UI, less "mess" (lots of useless crap in EQ that no "serious player" would look at twice, a lot less in WoW), graphical and user base update, the fact blizzard made it (and it is therefore cool), less classes and races with talent tree options to allow classes to branch out a bit (basically only 8 instead of 24 classes, but each class gets 3 trees and therefore function like 24 distinct classes, with options of dipping into other classes).

But, honestly, all of WoW's updates to EQ were "making it more mainstream" (removing stuff like "swimming skills" and "navigation skills", making quests with detailed detailed stories, etc...) and throwing it TONS of jokes into the world (name puns, referances in maps, etc...).

Personally, I want to see a non-instance based Dungeons and Dragons Online *not* set in Eberron (Forgotten Realms or Oriental Adventures!!!).

Re:WoW influence

[leathered]

I've played both WoW and LOTRO beta. There are a lot of similarities between the two games, most notably the UI which is probably one of WoW's greatest strengths. Of course this has led to accusations on sites such as mmorpg.com that LOTRO is a WoW clone. I suppose this is inevitable for any new fantasy MMOs given WoW's extraordinary success. But people seem to forget that all the '2nd gen' MMOs including WoW borrow heavily from 1st gen games such as Everquest, UO, DAoC etc.

I feel sorry for developers of new MMOs as there will always be endless comparisons with WoW. Truth is WoW is good but not great, it merely satisfies in all areas but excels in none and has a rather poor endgame. An 8 million + subscriber MMO is not going to happen again.

Re:WoW influence

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably the same influence that Everquest had on WoW. Why is there a question to this?

Re:WoW influence

[Programmer_In_Traini]

lol, agreed.

all the mmo makers out there were waiting for one to be successful to copy it and obtain a working formula.

but heh wait.... isn't it how it worked for decades already ?

Re:WoW influence

[lewp]

But people seem to forget that all the '2nd gen' MMOs including WoW borrow heavily from 1st gen games such as Everquest, UO, DAoC etc.

Indeed. Without going back to the drawing board and attempting to revolutionize MMOs as a whole, you'd have to be stupid not to copy WoW (and by extension EQ and friends). You can say what you want about it, but they've gotten quite a lot right, and I'd be very skeptical of any typical MMO that didn't pull a lot of their ideas straight out of WoW.

Re:WoW influence

[fragmentate]

In fewer words...

WoW is kinda like the "Dummy's Guide to MMORPG" -- it doesn't cover very much; and, like a "Dummy's Guide", it's far from being the definitive source.

Now, for the rest of the story...

Lord of the Rings Online is only similar to WoW from the stand-point of not reinventing the wheel. The keypresses are very similar. The general layout is familiar. Combat is as similar to WoW as it is to any other MMORPG. It stops there. LotRO is vastly different.

EverQuest is still more of a definitive source since there are some classes in the game that require actual skill. I remember long conversations about who the best enchanter, or bard was. And, of course, the ever popular monks. To play a "puller" (usually a monk) in EverQuest required quite a bit of skill, and timing. But what really made EverQuest great was the amount of coordination necessary. The warriors had to be doing their thing. The rogues had to be conscientious about potential mishaps and plan for recovery. Priests had to heal, and still be able to resurrect players while in combat. Shaman had to slow at the right times and keep track of what was slowed. Rangers and Druids had to snare... and so on. Just one person not doing their job could cost the raid.

In WoW, every class (and variation of that class) was basically a simplified, and trivialized version of their EverQuest counterpart. Coordination among 3 or 4 attentive players was usually all that was needed prior to Burning Crusade. I never raided in Burning Crusade because Blizzard took the same path that Sony did... the reason I quit EverQuest, and the reason I quit WoW: reputation based advancement with NO character development. (At least EverQuest had the Alternate Abilities system.)

Now, we've come full circle to something that more resembles the original EverQuest than WoW. Absent, however, are the costly deaths, and the enormous grind times. In LotRO they have replaced the grind with quests. Embedded in some of those quests are some grinds, however. The classes, being so few, are well defined, and do make sense in the context of Tolkien's world. What stands out is that they reward you for the grind. Each of those classes can develop traits that suit them. The burglar is going to want to hone his ability to take advantage of an enemy's weaknesses. The guardian is going to want to improve his ability to tank and taunt; and so on. So, Turbine took into account that the highend grind was inevitable, but provided a reward system (much like EverQuest's AA system). So, it seems well planned from end-to-end.

Only time will tell if this is true. If not, I'm sure some other MMO publisher will have something new for me to try soon.

Re:WoW influence

[Breakfast Pants]

That's basically what WoW did to EQ; not that I care, I'm just saying is all.

Re:WoW influence

[ocbwilg]

...and what advantages do you claim over WoW?

Two words: Tolkien Tolkien.

Also, that seems to be one of the chief disadvantages too (i.e., what happens when the One Rings goes poof?).

Re:WoW influence

[dAzED1]

If I was a mod today (you just missed it...) I'd give you as much "informative" as I could. It's the thought that counts, right?

Oh well, someone talking about mothers and basements will get all the "informatives" instead, probably. c'est la /.

Paying Multiple Times & Continuously

[Blahbooboo3]

Do you think that all game makers will ultimately start requiring purchase of both the online software and then a (IMHO ridiculous) monthly fee to play an online game?

Re:Paying Multiple Times & Continuously

[Fozzyuw]

As an offshoot of the OP's question, how was the decision made to offer Pre-orders special subscription prices, including a life-time fee?

Re:Paying Multiple Times & Continuously

[Sperbels]

Look at it this way. For your normal single player game, you buy the game and play it on your computer. That's it. With an MMO, you buy the game, connect to a large network for of servers with thousands of other players. Someone has to pay for all of these servers. Someone has to play the staff to maintain them. Someone has to pay for the bandwidth so you can talk to them. Someone has to maintain the game...there's an army of developers that continue to work on the game after it's release...somebody has to pay their salaries. So why would a $50 multiplayer game be worth the same as a $50 single player game?

Re:Paying Multiple Times & Continuously

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, look at is this way. There are countless other multiplayer games, not necessarily MMOs, out there that don't feel the need to double-dip, many of which are using the company's infrastructure and continue to receive updates. A prime example of this is Guild Wars. I don't have a problem with a subscription fee but I certainly don't feel it's justified for them to charge for the base game (client) and game updates as well.

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[AltGrendel]

Do you have any plans to deal with Gold Farming?

Preference: oil- or water-based lubrication...

[GodfatherofSoul]

...for the sodomizing you're going to suffer trying to take on WoW?

Re:Preference: oil- or water-based lubrication...

[Kelz]

As a hardcore Sony Computer Entertainment fan I can tell you that oil-based is better.

Farming?

[ookabooka]

Many RPG's and MMORPG's to some degree encourage farming (playing the game in a way that isn't entertaining but to increase your virtual wealth). This monotonous activity leads to bots and other forms of automating the game.

Have you done anything to decrease (or possibly eliminate) the need to farm, and if not what is your stance towards automated play?

Re:Farming?

[ocbwilg]

Many RPG's and MMORPG's to some degree encourage farming (playing the game in a way that isn't entertaining but to increase your virtual wealth). This monotonous activity leads to bots and other forms of automating the game.

I don't know if you've played the game yet, but I'm guessing not since you're asking this questions. I've been playing since launch, and I just hit Level 20 today without have to do any grinding/farming to gain levels, and I have yet to find an item in a shop that I wanted but couldn't afford. Granted, I'm fairly tight with my money in-game, but I have yet to see any reason for farming or grinding in LotRO. Maybe that changes in another 10-20 levels, but based on the content that I've seen so far, I doubt it.

Realistically, you get more money from completing quests (and there are a LOT of them) than you do from killing most monsters.

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[maroberts]

Do you have any plans to deal with Gold Farming?

I would doubt it, after all its a racial characteristic of Dwarves and Dragons.

Linux Port

[EvilRyry]

So, when is the Linux port coming out? (Yes, I've read the FAQ)

Tolkien

[untaken_name]

Has anyone reported any earth tremors near Wolvercote Cemetary? If so, are there any plans to re-bury Mr. Tolkien in a spin-proof coffin?

Future MMOs

[Anonymous Coward]

What is your vision for MMO games in the future, 10 or 20 years down the road?

Polish

[Tridus]

I own the game, and played it for a while. But the other day I cancelled, and went back to WoW. The main issue was simply a lack of polish in the UI. Things like the UI itself being too small on my display (a UI scaling option is sorely missed), having to change tools constantly (Explorers have two gathering professions, basically forcing me to leave a bag open all the time to swap between a mining pick and an axe), the chat text box losing focus constantly, and so on.

None of these individually are game breaking issues, but them and a host of other UI annoyances all pile up to make it a much less enjoyable experience then playing with WoW's incredibly smooth UI (which is even more so once you start using mods).

I'm curious if the developers are going to take some time to go back and improve the UI?

Re:Polish

[maroberts]

A rational follow on to the previous post is whether LOTR is going to encourage the independently developed add-on/plug-ins that WoW has done.

Re:Polish

[Anonymous Coward]

"Things like the UI itself being too small on my display "

Try a lower resolution.

"having to change tools constantly (Explorers have two gathering professions, basically forcing me to leave a bag open all the time to swap between a mining pick and an axe)"

Put the tools in one of the 5 tool bars you have and simply click on the one you need when you need it. You can even have the crafting window open and change tools at the same time by clicking the different tool in your toobar.

Re:Polish

[Tridus]

You know what happens when you change resolutions on an LCD? Things get very, very ugly.

Re:Polish

[zukakog]

Mod up! This question definitely needs to be in the interview.

I think that the current UI is pretty usable for overall game-play, but I personally like to tailor my UI to each character. As it stands now, you can skin (change the graphics) the UI, and move the components around. It offers lots of quickslots too. But, one of the things that really made WoW fun for me was the addons. I love the HUD addons. When you've got the resolution cranked way up, it's a long way to the edges of the screen, where all your info is displayed.

Re:Polish

[Tridus]

Definitely, wish I could go back and edit the post now to add it in. :) Addons add a lot to the game. They create a community, allow people to do really neat new things, make the game more personalized, and at this early stage in a games release, allow the community to fix UI problems.

Back in WoW 1.0 the first mod almost everybody downloaded was one that let you have more then one action bar. I wonder who these people were that actually only played with 12 buttons.

Re:Polish

[Anonymous Coward]

having to change tools constantly (Explorers have two gathering professions, basically forcing me to leave a bag open all the time to swap between a mining pick and an axe), the chat text box losing focus constantly

Drag the craft tools to one of your quickslot bars. I have an explorer and I select craft tools by typing shift+1, shift+2, or shift+3.

Re:Polish

[dtml-try MyNick]

I've been playing WoW since almost from launch date and am a bit bored of it by now.
Looking for a new mmorpg to play I decided to give LOTRO a shot since it looked most apealing to me after WoW.

I never even finished my 10 day trial because of the horrible ui design. Like the parent said the ui is just to clunky, hardly customisable and not intuitive. The fact that it's hardly mod-able made me decide not to cough up the cash for the complete game and fees.

But in all fairness, I think sometimes us WoW addicts forget how Blizzard spoiled us massively.
WoW is still in most aspects the best designed game overall in my opinion. In my search for another mmorpg after WoW life I've tried about a dozen others. Not one of them came close to WoW. Some had some nice and refreshing touches but the overall design of WoW, the way everything smoothly blends in, the way all of the things just work and you can have everything you need via mods is still unmatched in mmmorpg land.

Another thing that greatly disturbed me was the fact that I had to pay for the lotro trial. Not much, about 3 euro's orso, but still.
Paying for trials is a big no no in my book. If you want to lure me into your game you'd better make sure my first encounter is a pleasant one.
If a publisher doesnt even want to give his trial for free it says something about the thought after the whole project. *money, money, money, from wherever we can get it*

Gl to all other developers that are working on the "WoW killer".

Re:Polish

[FormulaTroll]

You don't need to leave a bag open to switch between a pick and an axe, just drag the implements to a quick-slot bar for single click access.

Re:Polish

[fragmentate]

Why would you want Polish in your UI?

Italian is way more in.

Re:Polish

[Crunchie Frog]

Why would you want Polish in your UI?

Italian is way more in.

*Cut to shot of tumbleweed rolling across empty, dusty, mid-west street*

Re:Polish

[snuf23]

I personally HATE the fact that some basic UI features require a mod in WoW. It boggled my mind that I had to load a UI mod in order to move by bags around. Many other features were not in the WoW UI until after they were in mods (such as additional and movable toolbars, or the adjustments to the flight map).
Personally I hate having to update all my mods every time a little patch comes out for WoW. I'd rather have the necessary features built in on Blizzard's side other than having to rely on mods to get features that should be there in the first place.

Re:Polish

[snuf23]

So you consider the crafting tool issue to be such a big pain? Here's an example of a similar pain in the ass from WoW:

Level based healing spells. Instead of casting the appropriate say "Healing Touch" for the level I'm casting it on, I have to find the appropriate spell to cast on say a lvl 30 player I'm helping with my level 60 druid. So this means setting up a tool bar with level appropriate healing spells every time I want to help out someone lower level than me. Oh of course there's a solution - made by a user mod requiring configuration of macros for each of my spells. Oh and then every freaking patch I have to test and make sure my macros don't break.
Enjoyable!

Re:Polish

[Tridus]

Pretty sure Blizzard fixed that recently. Buffs have been able to properly downrank for a while, at least.

Re:Polish

[irix]

This has been fixed for a while - since TBC was released anyway IIRC. Works for heals, buffs, etc.

Re:Polish

[snuf23]

I know for a fact that it was an issue at least well over a year after launch. Consider that LOTRO has been live for a little over a month. I would be surprised if we don't see UI and functional changes in the game when looked at a year+ past launch.

What would the professor think?

[Himring]

Tolkien was, to say the least, picky about his work. He specifically expressed it should never be dramatized and also made it clear that no one should dare edit the writings besides his son, Christopher.

As an avid fan who knows this, how can you justify, to me, putting the professor's world into a game genre. Why should I play it knowing Tolkien would most likely disapprove?

Re:What would the professor think?

[Anonymous Coward]

The professor tells you to crawl back into your basement and take your vitamins.

Re:What would the professor think?

[hidannik]

I realize it's not the most reliable source, but Wikipedia claims otherwise. In their article he is said to have sold rights for cinematic adaptation to United Artists in 1968, though he was critical of one script that passed through his hands and forbade Disney from ever being involved.

The rights sold included stage, film and merchandising. Wouldn't merchandising cover games?

Re:What would the professor think?

[abigor]

Tolkein had no objections to the dramatisation of the LoTR. It was first performed on the BBC back in 1955-56. Tolkein was dissatisfied with it, however. He also expressed interest in a cartoon version of LoTR: "As far as I am concerned personally, I should welcome the idea of an animated motion picture, with all the risk of vulgarization; and that quite apart from the glint of money..."

Re:What would the professor think?

[Himring]

Look for a quote regarding his, "it uniquely lends itself to not being dramatized" or something along those lines.

Also, the Tolkien estate was against the early incarnations of d&d if I remember, and isn't this the reason "hobbit" was removed and replaced with "halfling" in the game. I could be wrong on this last point.

I do know this, Tolkien said a lot of stuff, and if you look long enough you can find him saying about anything. No, wiki is not the best source. There are more reliable sources such as his letters which are published.

In the very least, Tolkien was picky, even arrogant, about his work. It was a book (later split) and a book he felt it should remain.

Does the fact that Christopher (christened to represent) was against the movies even play into counter arguments?

Re:What would the professor think?

[Himring]

Yes. I have a child. You?

Re:What would the professor think?

[abigor]

My source for his quotes is "The Letters of JRR Tolkien", edited by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien.

The quote you reference was a part of his complaint that the BBC messed up their LoTR broadcast (letter 175). He was never against dramatisation on principle. Tolkien is quite consistent on this point: dramatisation of the LoTR was always something he had in mind, not least because of the financial possibilities, as he was quite broke. Christopher's ambivalence was well-known, but he didn't write the books, so who cares what he thinks.

Re:What would the professor think?

[_Sprocket_]

The rights sold included stage, film and merchandising. Wouldn't merchandising cover games?

Most people didn't know about computer games in 1968. Most associations with computers and games would likely bring up tic-tac-toe or chess in the public's mind. There was a small subculture of hackers working to lay foundations of the video game during this time period (Spacewar), it would still be a couple years before the industry was born (pong and spacewar adaptations). I would be very surprised if computer games would have even entered the minds of anyone involved in negotiating this deal.

Re:What would the professor think?

[Chris Burke]

Um, while I do have great respect for Tolkein, I have to say: Who cares what he thought?

Tolkein's legacy was a fantastic series of fantasy novels that created a mythology unto their own. If I recall that was his goal in the first place, to create an English mythology. His legacy does not include a set of rules for ways in which we can enjoy this legacy. Any more than the ancient Greeks can object to us using their mythology to make God of War.

This being aside from any legal and copyright issues. But if his estate signed off on it, I say who cares if he would have minded? Would Shakespeare have minded the authoring of Rosecrantz and Guildenstern are Dead? I'm guessing he wouldn't have minded, but my point is who cares if he did.

Re:What would the professor think?

[hidannik]

While merchandising in 1968 would not have covered computer games per se, it would have covered board games, toys, and any other entertainments based on Tolkien's legendarium. Close enough in my book. Your mileage may vary.

Re:What would the professor think?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh That Professor, I thought you meant the Professor from Gilligan's Island

Re:What would the professor think?

[quantaman]

Well too bad for Tolkien then.

I'm of the view that if you want no one to distort, tarnish, or otherwise transform your works you simply shouldn't release them. You can't hand someone an idea then give them a set of rules on how to think about it.

Yes the creator has certain rights but Tolkien wasn't the only creator, even ignoring the fact that he, like any artist, took inspiration from the culture around him, the fans of his works are creators as well. When you read Tolkien your imagination expands those works far beyond the page, should you be constrained in what you can do with those imaginings because of their source?

If Tolkien didn't want us to make a movie or a video game that's too bad, but we the fan base have put in enough creative energy and emotional involvement that we have the right to transform the work in any way we like.

Re:What would the professor think?

[Himring]

Your post looks good, and is forcing me to think, but I will reserve agreement until I can learn more. It's been several years since I read the letters myself. Still, my overall impression from reading many things from Tolkien is that he was against a dramatization. Simply take into account his pickiness over the very publishing....

Christopher's ambivalence was well-known, but he didn't write the books, so who cares what he thinks.

JRRT cared what Christopher thought....

Re:What would the professor think?

[_Sprocket_]

I agree that it would cover those sort of things. However, there's quite a conceptual difference between Chess or Monopoly and LOTRO. And that's no small consideration. There's a large leap from the very old tradition of telling a story to acting out a story with players, props, etc. We've become accustomed to the change. And we're now in the middle of a new concept where the individual can now be a part of a story... no longer imagining a sequence of events or witnessing them being acted out.

To me, that's the basis of the question. What does a story teller think of their world being a backdrop to an individual's own story rather than the backdrop to their own crafted storyline? Especially a story teller who seemed to enjoy crafting that backdrop even more than the story they told.

Re:What would the professor think?

[_Sprocket_]

Um, while I do have great respect for Tolkein, I have to say: Who cares what he thought?

Tolkein's legacy was a fantastic series of fantasy novels that created a mythology unto their own. If I recall that was his goal in the first place, to create an English mythology. His legacy does not include a set of rules for ways in which we can enjoy this legacy. Any more than the ancient Greeks can object to us using their mythology to make God of War.

I don't think this is an attempt to seek permission or validation. I see a much more interesting angle to the question. I touched on this in an earlier post in this thread.

It occurs to me that Tolkien's work to create a modern mythology was largely wasted by the tools available in his time. Sure - he took on the role of a traditional story teller with an epic tale set in the world he outlined. But his narration read like a travel log as much as a story at times. And the background information he developed was far deeper than his more famous works.

It is almost as if Tolkien was hampered by the tools he had available. His works were beyond the simple narrative. Beyond even the visual effects Jackson had available to bring that narrative (or an adaptation thereof) to life on the screen. Tolkien didn't just write stories... or even mythology. He wrote source material. What would he have thought of the ability to take every aspect of his work and make them available in an interactive experience of an MMORP? Would thousands of individuals' stories offend the story teller in him? Or would the complexity of an artificial world appeal to his interest in crafting a complete mythology?

Pity the question is a moot point.

Re:What would the professor think?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm of the view that if you want no one to distort, tarnish, or otherwise transform your works you simply shouldn't release them. You can't hand someone an idea then give them a set of rules on how to think about it.

Agreed 100%. It makes no sense for the Slashdot crowd to protest in the streets outside Our Lady of the Perpetual Copyright, while at the same time insisting that the LotR franchise should remain under the auspices of the J.R.R. Tolkien estate.

Re:What would the professor think?

[Himring]

It appears Christopher had no opinion on the movies. Michael White, Tolkien biographer, stated Tolkien would have hated the films. However, Tolkien did apparently sell the film rights for 10,000 pounds in 1969:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1700458.s tm

Christopher apparently made the statement that it was not something that could properly be dramatized.

I think you have good points, and are not incorrect. I appreciate your endeavors. However, overall, I think I cannot withdraw my original belief that Tolkien would have not approved of the films. My statement that he specifically stated the films should not be was in error otherwise.

Re:What would the professor think?

[dlanod]

You mean besides the quote in his letters, clearly stating that he didn't mind adaptations - as long as he had full creative control or was paid lots of money. Most of his complaints were about specific adaptations and how bad they were.

Re:What would the professor think?

[Himring]

See my reply here: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=236533&cid=193 15817

I am confused over the "dramatization" quote since the bbc seems to link that to the modern Christopher quote, but perhaps he was quoting his father.... Also, to your point, as I mentioned, Tolkien sold the film rights in the late 1960s. I am arguing your point in case you don't follow.

Did Tolkien OK a possible film? Yes. Would Tolkien have approved of THE films? Most likely, no.

If I could go back I would have not included the part about the film at all, especially since I was wrong in that Tolkien never said it should not be dramatized (I misunderstood the "does not dramatize"). Everyone is hung-up on that. The point still stands, as any avid fan knows, that JRRT would most likely not approve of this game (Tolkien biographer Michael White stated he would have hated the movies). This really isn't hard to figure out....

Re:What would the professor think?

[demi]

It's hard to say. The first versions of adventure, with elements taken straight from Tolkien, were only a few years off, and multiplayer worlds with Tolkienian elements only a couple of years after that. Were these developments predictable in 1968? Probably, but only by the right people, not the general public. I doubt the commercial culture around video games and low-cost end-consumer computers seemed all that visible at the time.

However, I don't see the conceptual difference between a video game and, say a role-playing or other sort of game, with respect to whether it was covered by a merchandising agreement. It's interesting that roughly the mid-1970s was the time of genesis for Colossal Cave Adventure, the first MUDs and Dungeons and Dragons; however, Dungeons and Dragons had its roots in miniature wargaming, which was well-established as a pastime since before Tolkien ever wrote his stories (H.G. Wells wrote some of the first rules for resolving miniature combat in 1913). I would be very surprised if no wargamers adopted the backdrop of Tolkien's fantastic wars and battles, especially as the rise in popularity of wargaming in the late 1950s coincided with the publication and widespread popularity of Tolkien's novels. By 1968 the idea of games specifically in the setting of Lord of the Rings would have been entirely natural and predictable.

Mr. Anderson

[FiloEleven]

We'll take the best of the lot and put them to Mr. Anderson in a phone interview later this week. Tell me, Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call when you are unable to speak?

Re:Mr. Anderson

[b3nbr0wn]

lol! well played

Re:Mr. Anderson

[CodeBuster]

You're going to help us Mr. Anderson whether you want to or not...

Re:Mr. Anderson

[ensignyu]

I guess in the future, Elrond is an evil computer program.

Re:Mr. Anderson

[Anonymous Coward]

LOTR adaptation:

Elrond: Well Mr. Baggins, what good is a ring, if you don't have any fingers?

LOTRO and WoW Interfaces

[MatrixCubed]

Albeit somewhat delayed, I played World of Warcraft for the first time about 2 weeks before I played the LOTRO beta. I instantly found the controls, user interface, and layout to be surprisingly similar (character status UI, map zoom system, key bindings). Was this a strategic move to ease the migration of WoW users to LOTRO, or did it have some other purpose?

Re:LOTRO and WoW Interfaces

[Anonymous Coward]

The UI is based off the UI they used for Asheron's Call 2, being that it essentially using an upgraded version of the AC2 engine. So its just coincidence that WOW's UI looks like the LOTRO UI.

Feeling the love

[cyoung1035]

I've been playing LOTRO since closed beta, and I'm thoroughly hooked. It's obvious to me that the developers gave a lot of love, fun, and attention to the game: rainbows in the Shire, facial expressions that reflect your mood, the ever-annoying nosey/hungry hobbits, that lame man in Combe(!), emotes (picking a wedgie?), NPCs who remember your name and whether you've completed a quest for them as you walk by. It all works together so well to make you feel truly a part of the world. Were those delightful touches included in the master design, or did they just develop on their own as the game was built?

Re:Feeling the love

[Anonymous Coward]

So do you work for Turbine or their marketing firm?

DDO

[RobFrontier]

What, if anything, does this mean for the future of DDO? Yhe best MMORPG ever created IMO.

Re:DDO

[crossmr]

him and the six other people who play it really want to know.

Re:DDO

[Anonymous Coward]

Im still playing DDO you insensitive clod !

Re:DDO

[dm0527]

While I haven't played DDO in a few months, it's still a valid question considering this is obviously going to be more popular due to the LotR IP. What is going to happen to the DDO game?

Water

[Anonymous Coward]

Water is dead in LOTRO and many fans would like to see it deep, drownable, and full of adventures. When will underwater content be added?

Re:Water

[zukakog]

Water is dead in LOTRO and many fans would like to see it deep, drownable, and full of adventures. When will underwater content be added?

One of my favorite pastimes is jumping off of the bridge to the Shire in Erid Luin. You go pretty deep under water, but if you go too deep, you "bounce" and die.

Re:Water

[zukakog]

*Ered Luin

Player Housing and Crafting

[Anonymous Coward]

Any thoughts on possible player housing and expanding the crafting line ?
Some people just really like to spend their time crafting rather then chasing boars.

Leveraging fans

[palladiate]

As a fan and former Vanguard member on AC2, I noticed Turbine's greatest strength was a rather fast and sane response to player feedback (despite many claims to the contrary). I recall many AC and AC2 fans and 3rd party developers ended up on your dev teams. I witnessed all of this first-hand when you were developing the hero-class endgame mechanics. And despite the system's friendliness, balance, and incorporation of player feedback, most players were unhappy (they thought the system was too simplistic, a la WoW, or had other esoteric gripes).

Do you have any plans to try and continute to leverage your community, or do you find vocal MMOG players just too darn irrational and hard to please? Blizzard seems to regularly ignore players, and does quite well from what I hear.

And thanks for making games that don't suck. Asheron's Call was, to me, the finest example of storytelling with thousands of players done yet. Logging in to find my Monarch was Bael'zharon ranks as the coolest moment of my 20-odd years of gaming.

Re:Leveraging fans

[crossmr]

Go to the forums and read up on sweet gelanas (unless they've "sanitized" those threads). There is nothing sane about their decisions this time around. Its knee-jerk reactions to satisfy one outcry after another. In one fell swoop they managed to entirely destroy a crafting profession, and bend over and take it from a group of people who didn't even understand what it was they were bellyaching about.

Re:Leveraging fans

[Hubbell]

Sadly Asheron's Call was the only thing Turbine did right, and even that was a mistake.

Slidecasting? Mistake.
S2M/Revit cycle? Mistake.
Animation Break? Mistake.

Everything that made AC awesome was a mistake, and everything they intentionally do to the game ruins it more and more.

Lessons Learned

[Mac_Daddy]

In light of the eventual closure of Asheron's Call 2, what were the biggest lessons you and the rest of Turbine have learned?

Re:Lessons Learned

[rampant mac]

I just wasted mod points, but...

In light of the eventual closure of Asheron's Call 2, what were the biggest lessons you and the rest of Turbine have learned?

I'm not a Turbine employee or affiliated in any way; Just a HUGE fan of the the original AC. If you look at the success of the original Asheron's Call, the lesson would be:

Don't fuck up a great game, and don't alienate your target audience.

End-game content

[eieken]

What happens in the game when a user finishes the very large amount of quests in the game? I know about the player-vs-monster-player area, and it is rather fun. Is there any other end-game content other then the monster player area?

learning from the past

[EvilPoster]

what has turbine learned from the flop-of-a-mmorpg ac2 that they have applied to lotr? also, did turbine try to make an original mmorpg when creating lotr, or is it just a cheap wow copy designed to get a piece of the online gaming pie?

Ebay sales

[vengeful_ferengi]

What kind of policies do you have in place regarding sales of in-game virtual items on Ebay? What about duplicated items created due to exploits regarding unchecked buffers and other such "hacks"?

Re:Ebay sales

[jstretch78]

What about duplicated items created due to exploits regarding unchecked buffers .... There is no such thing. There is no such thing.

Re:Ebay sales

[vengeful_ferengi]

Yeah...until there is ;-)

Leap of faith...

[Last_Available_Usern]

Your team no doubt learned from all of the succeses and failures within World of Warcraft and did their best to retain what aspects had player appeal and shy away from those that illicited public outcry. Stepping away from those choices, what would you say was the most daring leap of faith the team made in the game mechanics, balance, graphics, or any other facet that jumps out at you? Is there anything in the game that really made you say, "Dang, we're hanging our butts out there on this one, but we believe in this feature/mechanic and are gonna run with it."

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[Puff of Logic]

Do you have any plans to deal with Gold Farming?

I would doubt it, after all its a racial characteristic of Dwarves and Dragons. If the devs would be willing to let a Balrog rampage around periodically eating all of the gold farmers, I'd actually subscribe to the game!

User created content?

[LetterRip]

Will users be able to create content? If so what free tools (http://www.blender.org/ or http://www.artofillusion.org/ ?) and formats will be supported? Will we be able to export animations or create normal mapped items?

LetterRip

Plans against spammers

[Anarchysoft]

Today I got my first gold farm spam mail as did several other people in Bree town (from IMs on the public channels.) What steps is Turbine taking or going to take to prevent or minimize annoyances caused by gold farmers, spammers, etc?

Object Reuse

[Anonymous Coward]

Lots of turbine games have shared the same underlying game engine now (AC2, DDO and now LOTRO), can you comment on how easy of a transition it was from AC2->DDO and now LOTRO? I know that some people complain about the sameness of some of the in-game objects, but thats what comes from art (and artist) reuse.

Also, (based on a comment above) is there a better transition plan to close the game (a la AC2) if/when the sequence of book events has transpired?

Re: gold farming

[Clockworkalien]

The buying and selling of virtual currency in MMORPGs have proven to "sour" the game environment, the worst effects being inflated prices and in-game spam. What steps have you taken to control gold farming and spam?

Character Generator

[Anonymous Coward]

the character builder is limited in an age where sliders are the norm for real customization of faces and bodies. Are there plans to upgrade the character builder to current standards or to add more choices to the stock choices provided?

Hobbit Info

[ak3ldama]

Is the only way to level up as a hobbit to just sit around, tend your garden, eat six meals a day, and be ... generally boring?

Re:Hobbit Info

[jstretch78]

Dont forgot about hobbits engaging in the act of making little hobbits. Thats always a crowd pleaser.

Re:Hobbit Info

[Anonymous Coward]

But aren't all hobbits little hobbits?

Had to be asked...

[Creeker]

Can I have your stuff? :)

What is the end-game?

[Vicegrip]

Where World of Warcraft has largely failed in my mind is in the end-game. Here the content is, aside from reputation quests, entirely Raid driven and controlled by harsh unforgiving bosses and large time sinks. Blizzard's PVP system isn't really anything to get excited about as it is totally un-interesting outside of arenas.

Essentially, there is no other story line in World of Warcraft other than to kill Illidan and spend a lot of time farming farming farming for reputation. I so miss the innovations that Ultima Online had with housing or seafaring ten years ago.

What does LOTR bring to the table in the end-game that makes it different from other MMOs?

Re:What is the end-game?

[Fozzyuw]

Where World of Warcraft has largely failed in my mind is in the end-game. Here the content is, aside from reputation quests, entirely Raid driven and controlled by harsh unforgiving bosses and large time sinks.

Ahmen. Even reputation became group required. This is my #1 reason for leaving WoW. I couldn't participate in the End game (which I COULD get to easy enough). My #2 reason? Too hard to find a group (even when in a good guild, oddly) to participate in the end game.

Re:What is the end-game?

[CodeBuster]

Blizzard's PVP system isn't really anything to get excited about as it is totally un-interesting outside of arenas.

If Blizzard *really* wanted to make things interesting then they could turn on Global PVP (i.e. anyone can kill anyone else at any time and for any reason without warning) AND make the entire map like battlegrounds (where opposing sides can capture and control areas by meeting objectives). If the capital city of either Horde or Alliance falls then all of the players on the winning side get awards and the world resets to the default start state (the static one that it currently is in) and the cycle begins again (perhaps with time sensitive diminishing returns to prevent alarm clock raids with several 'quick' wins in a row for either Alliance or Horde). That would make the game interesting.

Re:What is the end-game?

[Archimonde]

There are thousands of good ideas how to get PvP going in WoW, but Blizzard is so reluctant to introduce any of them it is beyond comprehension. Unfortunately pvp in wow becomes boring fast and this is just because of no really diverse content. They have so rich gaming population, relatively huge virtual world, they could do there nothing short of miracles in gaming, but what gamers get: "Hey we created new Tier666 armor set, and we added a dungeon where 2% of server population can get, and oh btw, we added a new ultra rare mount for 'everyone'. And don't forget a 'new' arena." It is just pathetic.

Re:What is the end-game?

[obeythefist]

It's funny you should say that

Blizzard's PVP system isn't really anything to get excited about as it is totally un-interesting outside of arenas.

because I find arenas the absolute worst distillation of PvP there is. Why have capture the flag, domination, objective based battlegrounds when you can have: deathmatch. This is the crux of Guild Wars, only GW implemented it better than WoW, without a subscription fee, and with several more arenas and a better matching system.

The only reason people play arenas in WoW is because they provide the best PvP itemisation rewards. If the BG rewards were better, people would play those instead. I certainly find the battlegrounds much more interesting, particularly AV, whilst AV favours one faction more than another, people still play it. The mix of PvE elements in the PvP battleground is something reasonably unique to WoW that builds on the dual PvE/PvP focusses of the game.

I personally can't wait until Blizzard kills the arenas.

Re:What is the end-game?

[Vicegrip]

Oh, and don't let me get started about the planned obsolescence items have. In World of Warcraft, not only do items because less useful as you gain levels, but they also do less damage and the spell effects diminish in potency.

It's the biggest load of design cheese ever.

I'm ready for the next good thing in gaming.

Re:Has the game been optomized

[jstretch78]

Has the game been optimized for player to use it in their mothers basement

Since it was probably developed in that same place I would have to say yes.

Indoors Areas require Zoning

[Mankey]

I have been playing the game for only a few hours and must say I am impressed with the stability and watching my home city burning. That really made me feel like it was an epic event. The one question I have is - Why the decision to have to zone when entering a small building like a tavern. Wouldn't it have been better to have them as an open environment similar to World of Warcraft ? That is my only complaint so far, keep up the good work !

Re:Indoors Areas require Zoning

[mrjimorg]

I can answer this one. Its so that the zone can change with the story line. The first time you go into a particular house there may be a person there who gets murdered by brigands. You kill the brigands and continue the story line. If the guy was alive and well again when you went back then you would have a schism in the story line.

Re:Indoors Areas require Zoning

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no issues with the zoning since I literally zone in and out in a second or two, incredibly fast, and I get almost no slow down even when running around in crowded areas. Kudos on the engine.

Mod UP

[LDoggg_]

Doh, just when I ran out of mod points...

Get this question up to +5 and watch Zonk ignore it like he's does every time there's a game dev interview.

We understand the size of the target market. We understand that it may not be economically viable. But does it hurt to ask for a port? I'd drop wine/WoW for a native LOTR online port.

Re:Mod UP

[krelian]

Doh, just when I ran out of mod points...

We understand the size of the target market. We understand that it may not be economically viable. But does it hurt to ask for a port? Why ask if you already know the answer? Zonk knows as well and just wants to prevent the interviewee from thinking of new ways to rephrase "we prefer to focus on markets that will actually us profits".

Re:Mod UP

[LDoggg_]

Why ask if you already know the answer?

We DON'T know for sure. And asking the question at least makes our voices heard.
Heck, it worked for getting Dell to ship ubuntu machines.

Re:Mod UP

[BobDigiDigi]

C'mon this is slashdot. If we don't ask him, who will?

Re:Mod UP

[fan of lem]

I am a "mostly-Linux" user, and would be able to convert fully to Linux if the games I like to play run there. I am also a LOTRO junkie. I would LOVE to get a Linux port for the game.

Re:Mod UP

[chrysrobyn]

We understand the size of the target market. We understand that it may not be economically viable. But does it hurt to ask for a port? I'd drop wine/WoW for a native LOTR online port.

What a strange thing to say, dropping a particular product with a native compatibility library for another based on the libraries themselves. Do you do that with Motif, Qt or GTK? Google's Picassa includes the Wine libraries (Wine Is Not an Emulator, remember?) for Linux compatibility. What if Blizzard included Wine libraries in a WoW package for Linux? We all know it won't happen, but would you have a problem with Wine then? If LOTRO stated it ran on Linux, but it turned out it did so with the assistance of included Wine libraries, would you then stop using it?

I know there are some people who disagreed with TrollTech a few years ago, and there are still people who disagree with the vendors who sell Wine (and employ several developers, and feed patches back), but that didn't seem to be where you were at.

Re:Mod UP

[LDoggg_]

That's the problem. Blizzard doesn't support running WoW with wine. Every so often when I do a system update and a new version of wine is released, WoW has problems. Very often Blizzard pushes out a new version of WoW that has problems with the current release of wine. Sure I could sandbox a version of wine, but Blizzard will by no means test their releases against that version.
My expectations from Blizzard are so low that I'd be happy if they could tell us that they tested version X of WoW against version X of wine.

I would rather LOTRO didn't use wine for a "port", but if they made sure that things worked, I'd still prefer it to Blizzard's ignoring Linux users completely.

Google using wine for Picasa was actually a good thing since they gave something like 200 patches back to the project.

Re:Mod UP

[ak3ldama]

"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
I love your sig. that's one of my favorite Chappelle skits.

In-Game Music System

[Soukyan]

As a former subscriber to Asheron's Call 2, I was disappointed to see that game go for a particular social aspect that goes unrecognized and unimplemented in other MMOGs - the music system. As a beta tester, you can imagine my delight at finding out that Turbine had added a similar system to LoTRO. I am now a paying subscriber based upon this one feature that I feel adds depth to the world and serves as a great community building tool. Could you expound upon the music system and its implementation as well as future plans for the system?

Re:In-Game Music System

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, if I make a deal with Sauron to swap my hands with any Monster, what is the chance of getting my fat stubby dwarf hands replaced with Sauron's hands so I can play music well enough so that Leela will date me?

--
"Oh what an appallingly ironic outcome."
"It's not ironic, it's just coincidental. Now for over those lady-fingers cookie!"

Re:In-Game Music System

[Pallando-zi]

As an addition or follow up to the parent question:

Are there any plans to add a reputation system for musicians? While special music stages, competitions and titles would be nice, the big advantage to adding such a system would be a UI option to let players ignore the 'music' generated by those rated as 'still learning' (to use a euphamism)

Also, perhaps a tip jar that doesn't require popping up a trade window?

(Why do bug and suggestion commands in game require a seperate registration and login to a website?)

What I want to know

[Mr. Bad Example]

What has it got in its pocketses?

Ent

[blahlazer]

Can I play as an Ent?

Re:Ent

[quantaman]

Can I play as an Ent? Yeah, though when playing as an Ent it takes several years to complete the in-game tutorial.

(and you still don't get any women).

Downtime / Patches

[Anonymous Coward]

Patch Tuesday! FTW!

Play Cycle

[whisper_jeff]

For an average hardcore-lite gamer (20-ish hours a week), what is the realistic play cycle for the game? How many months of play, for one character, before a player has accomplished the majority of what the game has (and is planned) to offer? (For example, for many such players, WoW (imho) has about a two year play cycle before a player has achieved the majority of what the game has to offer.)

Excluded countries

[Andabata]

Living in Portugal, and thus unable to participate, I would like to ask: when will users from other European countries besides the current ones be able to participate? I see no reason for being excluded from LOTRO...

Why linux, Why no Mac Client.

[Mr. Arbusto]

I'm one of 30 people I know shelling money out to Blizzard for WoW. I went to beta LOTROL and found no OS X client. I could boot into Vista on one of my machines.....but I'll just keep playing WoW.

Re:Why linux, Why no Mac Client.

[TommydCat]

There's actually 30 people on your RP server? WoW!

Re:Why linux, Why no Mac Client.

[Mr. Arbusto]

I love a quick post with no review.

30 people using Macs....I know there are least 2 more :)

Re:Why linux, Why no Mac Client.

[BMonger]

I really enjoyed LOTRO (Mac Pro with Boot Camp to XP) but after my first month I simply got tired of rebooting... so I canceled LOTRO. Not because it's a bad game, but just because I'm that lazy. Had their been a Mac port I would've kept on playing.

I have little expectation for developers to cater to the Mac market still... I wish they would but I don't blame them either at the moment.

Re:Why linux, Why no Mac Client.

[TommydCat]

30 Mac users, therefore it had to be an RP server ;)

Random animosity aside, I do hope they do show decent support for that platform, as games are one of the few reasons I'm still tied into Wintel. Linux+wine almost works but not quite. OSX, with it's familiar unix backside, would definitely have more marketplace potential if gaming ever hits critical mass (again), and give me the excuse I'm looking for.

I don't care how many times Bill & co reinvent how to launch a program, it feels tired and bloated.

Re:Why linux, Why no Mac Client.

[LDoggg_]

I wouldn't call that being lazy.

Dual booting/virtualizing is inconvenient, especially if you're just doing it for one application.

Re:Why linux, Why no Mac Client.

[Anonymous Coward]

My reason for playing MMORPG is playing with my friends.

Some of them use Macs to play.

WoW runs on Macs. LOTRO doesn't.

End of Story.

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[misleb]

You mean besides developing a functioning, player controlled, in-game economy? I have not played many MMOG's so I don't have a lot to compare, but it seems to me that Eve Online dealt with "farming" pretty well by simply making it a part of the game. In Eve, mining/farming raw materials and breaking down/selling loot is required for the economy to function. That is, you need someone to mine ore to sell on the market (and it really does have a market) so others can build ships and other items. Too many people mining/farming and the value of the ore goes down and it becomes less fruitful to farm and at the same time larger items get cheaper for everone else because they're cheaper to build. I actually made a whole character in Eve based on working the markets, buying/selling ships, building ships, etc. It was pretty fun for a couple months. And it was totally legit.

-matthew

Re:I was going to ask...

[Clockworkalien]

What has roots as nobody sees,
Is taller than trees,
Up, up it goes
And yet never grows?

Paying Multiple Times & Continuously-cheapskat

[Anonymous Coward]

What's ridiculous about it? You buy appliances and then have to pay a monthly fee to the electric company. Infrastructure isn't free, and it's upkeep is an ongoing expense. Deal with it, or move to a different genre.

Where is the PvP focus?

[brooke_nobody]

First off, I will admit I haven't played the game myself, but from what I've read and heard from friends' experiences I am curious where you plan to go with the PvP elements in LOTRO. According to my research, LOTRO didn't initially intend to include PvP as a major component of the game and it was merely tacked on as an afterthought. As I'm sure everyone knows who has ever read the Hobbit and LOTR, war and combat are central themes of the story. To me, it would appear LOTRO missed the boat on a dynamic, war-like environment by not fully integrating PvP in a cohesive way. Fighting NPCs or even other players in a boring environment without focus just doesn't get my adrenaline pumping.

Please don't tell me to go and play a Tolkien-based MUD... been there, done that! :P

Re:Where is the PvP focus?

[MontyApollo]

They seemed to have betted that most people would be most interested in helping out the main characters from the story, and they seemd intent on having the story follow and parallel the fellowship on its journey.

Personally, I think the war in the north and east of the Misty Mountains would be good area for a large PvP campaign. Lorien, Mirkwood, the Lonely Mountain, the Iron Hills, all saw major engagements in the War of the Ring, but these were just basically footnotes in the book. A very major campaign could be waged there without much interference to the main story line.

Re:Where is the PvP focus?

[brooke_nobody]

Indeed, the very landscape of Middle Earth is ripe for PvP conflict, which it seems they have missed hitting on release. Here's hoping they release a PvP-centric expansion pack or there's no way they'll entice me to LOTRO. And they'd better have it out before Warhammer Online scoops up the players with a focus on PvP or not even bother. :P

Re:Where is the PvP focus?

[MontyApollo]

By the time they are finished, they are going to have a pretty massive, highly developed world map (right now Rivendell is about as far east as you can go), and it would be a shame for that to go to waste. I think they should definately use the full map for a PvP campaign at some point.

I have heard that the PvP they have now is fun, but I haven't got that far yet (at level 10 you can take the role as a lvl 50 monster player, but you have to be level 40 to use your main character.)

Re:Has the game been optomized

[Anonymous Coward]

Modded redundant... I don't know what ratio of funny:sad that is :)

Design Desicions

[Anonymous Coward]

Why, exactly, did you make a mod for WoW instead of making something new? If I wanted to play WoW, I would. Instead I start your Beta test, which I played for 3 whole hours until I realized there isn't a "when this gets good or new or interesting." That's 2 hours longer than I could tolerate WoW, so at least you have that.

Otherwise, next time, don't just copy another game and use a license to pawn it off as something new. But I would like to know why you guys decided not to make a new game.

Re:Design Desicions

[Anonymous Coward]

Why, exactly, did you make a mod for WoW instead of making something new? If I wanted to play WoW, I would.

why is it that every retard who's ever played wow without playing any other mmorpg thinks that everyone is ripping off wow? if anything wow ripped off earlier and much more interesting mmorpgs.

but i do have to also say that wow players who aren't giving other mmorpgs a shot are doing themselves a disservice. wow really doesn't have the market cornered on mmorpgs... it's not the best mmorpg out there, not by a long shot.

Re:The smell

[Chris Burke]

Why are you going around sneaking into people's basements to sniff them? And if they smell so bad why don't you stop?

I swear, some people refuse to take personal responsibility for their actions.

WoW Comparison

[ReadbackMonkey]

Could you please add some kind of content to auto-kill any character that compares LOTRO to WoW? I'm so tired of reading those debates; and filtering hasn't worked, they move from OOC to Advice to Regional. I'm left moving onto the combat channel to just listen to the orcses trying to hurts us.

Kung-fu magic

[palladiate]

I remember in beta there was the ability to cast spells from the number bar in melee combat. I even had a sword-warmage. It was good times then, with the slidecasting and broken skills (free dagger did more damage than 16 point swords). It required skill, unlike nearly all other MMOGs (WoW is so dang boring and easy).

You may be right though, most everything that made the game great (easily breaking your character, the complete and total dependence on magic) was largely a mistake. The stories and lore weren't, and were largely player-driven. Add to that the world was so big, most people never really got to explore. You were always finding new things and random lore bits here and there. Good times.

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[Ryan Amos]

Farming is a necessary part of any MMO; but I think what people take issue with is professional farmers who sell in-game money for real-world cash.

In a game like World of Warcraft (where many people seem to take issue with) the ability to craft top-end items are completely out of reach of many players, so they resort to buying what they can, which drives up the market on crafting materials and fees by the few who can actually craft the items.

WoW has very little player-controlled economy. The servers are actually far too small to allow it and the economic choke points are far too concentrated (there are maybe 5 items that are used in about 90% of the crafted weapons/armor) so it's pretty easy for one person to corner the market on a specific item/kind of materials.

EvE seems like the game was designed around the economy, which is why the economy is good. WoW was designed around dungeon crawling and combat, and the economy serves only as motivation for more combat. If all you did in WoW was play the economy, you'd be really bored after a week, hence the amount of gold farming and gold-for-cash sales (because after playing the game for 2 years, you REALLY have no interest in the economy.)

What's the point?

[iceperson]

The only function that is serves is to add a level of tedium. If I click on a bundle of logs then I've already made a conscious decision to use the axe. If I click on a node of minerals I've already decided to use my pick-axe. There is no need for more interaction than that.

I tried LOTRO, but left it for dead when I realized that the developers took design cues from the same guy who thought Vista could use 5 clicks to do anything I needed it to do...

False Starts?

[eqreed]

It appears that LOTRO went through a bit of false starts in development. What happened there?

The Lifetime Option

[tadprime]

Personally I love the lifetime option, and it was a major selling point for me (it is much easier for me to justify a one-time splurge of $200 instead of adding another monthly outlay). What convinced the business-side that that was a good idea?

Re:The Lifetime Option

[Anonymous Coward]

I also thought it was a great idea. Then I read the fine print at the time and its requirements including: having to login every now and then.

It doesn't seem like such a big thing, but I did just shell out extra cash for a "Lifetime" subscription.

Server Emulators

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you think about projects that try to create a server software from scratch compatible with LOTRO client to run their own realms? Do you think people should not be able to use the product they have already bought if they are not willing to pay a monthly fee for the service you provide? After all it is the service people are paying for, not the "right to use the product", right?

Factions & PVP

[Enlil]

What reasoning led you to justify LOTRO's departure from WoW's 2-faction set-up? The lore and the market, it seems, were begging for it.

Most Complaints

[MontyApollo]

What issues have stirred up the most ire in players?

Orcs AND Goblins

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that "orc" is an elvish word for "goblin" don't you? Why are they treated as two different species in the game?

Licensing

[Chief Crazy Chicken]

What is the scope of the current licensing, as in which books are covered by the current agreement?

Do you envision being able to add future expansions/sequels/engine-using-content-environmen ts that allow for first age content, perhaps co-terminus with the Children of Hurin book just out? Or any other era? The flight of the Noldor from the west would also make a good high-power story arc.

Most games have an escalation of power as they get older, but with the LOTR mythos, the power diminishes over time. However, adding elements as alluded to above would fit the increased power design pattern, plus fit into the overall mythos with more elegance.

Re:Licensing

[OriginalArlen]

The flight of the Noldor from the west would also make a good high-power story arc.

Children of Hurin... a "story arc".*head in hands* Forgive them, Ronald, for they know not what they do.

Portal to Teth?

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to play AC back from its closed beta, played it for > 5 years. You guys burned me badly when you broke your word to never ban automation, and worse when your community managers were overly happy about nerfs. "We're not afraid to swing the nerf bat!!!1" - sound familiar?

Why should I play your newest game? What have you changed that deserves my trust?

Re:Portal to Teth?

[Anonymous Coward]

>I used to play AC back from its closed beta, played it for > 5 years.

That's one fucking LONG beta! GOOD for you, for sticking it out! You do know that the AC closed beta didn't last for 5 years, right?

>Why should I play your newest game?

You shouldn't! Apparently you still have access to the AC closed beta - go play it! You'll be uber, man!

Re:Paying Multiple Times & Continuously-cheaps

[Blahbooboo3]

I believe your analogy of a "washing machine" while on the surface seems accurate, with further thought it is not really a great analogy for software subscription models. The washing machine company does not provide both the machine and the means to use the washing machine (in your example, electricity). The power company provides the electricity -- thus not a monopoly on the ability to use the machine.

Going one step further with your example, you would imply that I would think detergent should be included with the machine. However, you forget something. I have a choice of what detergent I want to purchase available from multiple suppliers. I can choose detergents that are cheap, expensive, low quality, high quality, or none at all -- no matter, my washing machine still works. However, without the online component, I believe this game would not work.

To me it seems the software should be free if you pay a monthly fee to use the software -- as it is for most software by subscription. Or if you pay for the software, the subscription should be included. Anything else is just trying to double-dip IMHO. It is a slippery slope, before long all vendors will require monthly fees for any type of multi-player game no matter where it is "hosted."

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[misleb]

WoW has very little player-controlled economy. The servers are actually far too small to allow it and the economic choke points are far too concentrated (there are maybe 5 items that are used in about 90% of the crafted weapons/armor) so it's pretty easy for one person to corner the market on a specific item/kind of materials.

Right, so the the solution is a large, player controlled economy. That's what I said. ;-)

EvE seems like the game was designed around the economy, which is why the economy is good. WoW was designed around dungeon crawling and combat, and the economy serves only as motivation for more combat. If all you did in WoW was play the economy, you'd be really bored after a week, hence the amount of gold farming and gold-for-cash sales (because after playing the game for 2 years, you REALLY have no interest in the economy.)

Well, I dunno if Eve was designed round the economy. I think it was just given some extra consideration. Eve certainly has a very strong PvP community, for example. It isn't like players are just buying and selling all day long. The market is just one thing you can play with in Eve. You don't HAVE to give it much thought besides "where can I get my new ship/upgrades for the best price?" if you don't want to. And even that can be avoided in the low security areas where groups of players are largely self sufficient.

-matthew

Web site design

[krelian]

Why does the official website look so ugly?

Although ultimately gameplay is the most important aspect, polish and presentation skills are not far behind (at least to me). How come blizzard is almost the only one to figure that out? attractive website, superb art, jaw dropping CG, these things sell! Ultimately if your game sucks than there is nothing that will keep you afloat, but I am definitely ready to give it a shot if the packaging looks nice. There are many other games competing for my cash.

quests?

[mseidl]

How have you changed the questing model? Is it the same WoW type, "collect 10 of these, kill 5 of these" or are you innovating in this area more?

Re:Paying Multiple Times & Continuously-cheaps

[Anonymous Coward]

hellgate wants to do this

pay for the box which comes with "free" online play, but in reality the free play will be so gimped the only choice is to not play or to pay a monthly fee

Re:Paying Multiple Times & Continuously-cheaps

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed! This is why I left WoW in the first place. I did pay for the game initially (it was cheap so I didn't feel too bad [$20]) but when they decided to charge for the expansion I quit. I think it should be one or the other not both. I may have reconsidered if the monthly fee actually went for support and upkeep. But when you consider how much the game servers went down or how their support staff basically told you to screw off when something screwed up in-game, it turns out your fee was just to grant you the privilege of playing their game. Sure there are infrastructure fees but they are peanuts compared to the billions they are bringing in for the game. If a game like Guild Wars can be successful without double-dipping then Blizzard/WoW certainly could follow suit.

Rate of Expansion?

[Alexpkeaton1010]

What is the planned rate of expansion for the game? I cannot wait to see Gondor, Rohan, etc. I hope I don't have to wait 2 years for the first big expansion (a la WoW).

Re:Rate of Expansion?

[Kleedrac2]

I disagree on this point. One of the reasons I shied away from MMO's before WoW was the ridiculous update cycle. EQ has 13 expansions and quite frankly I dislike paying for the game and then a monthly fee ... add buying 1-2 expansions per year and I'm just done. I like the fact that I played WoW for over 2 years before having to plunk down more cash for an expansion. I didn't like the fact that they added 0 classes in the XP but that's another discussion :)

Re:Rate of Expansion?

[Alexpkeaton1010]

I agree with you that 6 month expansion rates are too quick. But a yearly expansion I think is perfect (i.e., a yearly increase in the level cap). I don't want to be stuck at the level cap for 2+ years relying upon the "end-game" to differentiate me from the 97% of the server who is also at the level cap.

why not all 3?

[LDoggg_]

If there was an OSX client, it means they're capable of rendering things without the complete dependency on DirectX. They'd be insane to not have some things modular already.

After gigabytes of game code,an OpenGL rendering engine, scripting, modeling, artwork, and sound, the subtle differnces between OSX and linux wouldn't be that big of a deal to port.

Re:Paying Multiple Times & Continuously-cheaps

[Anonymous Coward]

An analogy that I like to compare this to is the cable television companies. If they followed Blizzard's model they would charge you upfront for the channels you subscribed to, add a monthly fee, and then charge you more when new shows start up in the following season.

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[Knara]

It isn't like players are just buying and selling all day long. No, but some do. Profitable for your corp if you can stand it.

Mr Anderson

[coldcell]

What good is a phone call... if you cannot speak?

Re:Paying Multiple Times & Continuously-cheaps

[MBGMorden]

Yes, but those are to DIFFERENT entities. Nobody is complaining about buying the game AND paying for an ISP to connect to the servers: they're complaining because they're paying the same company twice.

Think about other markets. Cell phones are available for free with service contract. Satellite TV systems are available for free with contract.

That's what I see here. The company wants to charge twice.

Will you be selling an experience, or a game?

[Jason Mark]

Can you talk a little about the website, and how important you perceive that as being to a new game?

* Is that a key component or just a "nice to have"?
* In most industries, the idea of "closing" a sale on a website would be laughable, but could a website make a difference in video games?
* Do you see your web community as important to you?
* Do you purposely not invest in resources (art, programming and copy) until knowing if the game is taking off?

I joined WOW about a year after it came out, so I never saw it's website in it's infancy, but I was a little surprised when looking at your site at the retro feel in terms of graphics, and the content errors I found while trying to answer easy questions. I would have thought that if you were setting your sites on pulling WOW users, you'd have a more polished website, and I'd like to know more about the business drivers that sent you in the direction you went in.

Thanks,

Jason Mark
http://www.gravityswitch.com/

How will you avoid the traps?

[ajs]

I played EverQuest for 4 years, and have played WoW for just under a year. They've both had their problems, but in both I see a pattern: as the game progresses, and they transition from release to long-term expansion cycles, content progression becomes so deep and so complex that new or casual players must spend 4-6 months to join their friends who have been playing for months or years. Worse, the new or casual player represents a drag on the resources of any player that wants to help them level. There's no effective way to (relatively) quickly make a new player useful (say, in the period of time it would take to learn to use their abilities).

I worry about this, and wonder: do you have a way of solving this problem in the longer term for LOTRO, or are you (like EQ and WoW before you) pushing off those choices until you're already in the expansion release cycle?

Re:How will you avoid the traps?

[Stuntmonkey]

content progression becomes so deep and so complex that new or casual players must spend 4-6 months to join their friends who have been playing for months or years. Worse, the new or casual player represents a drag on the resources of any player that wants to help them level.

That's nothing. Right now I'm spending most of my time in this immersive multiplayer game that literally takes years to learn. Every player who wants to succeed needs to suffer through these lengthy and totally contrived tutorial environments ("college", "grad school"). Even worse, all the players who started earlier are constantly taking advantage of me ("get off my land!", "don't steal my stuff!", "where's my rent?!?"). To top it off, weapons and fighting/killing are practically banned. Where's the fun? This game sucks.

Re:How will you avoid the traps?

[OverlordQ]

They've both had their problems, but in both I see a pattern: as the game progresses, and they transition from release to long-term expansion cycles, content progression becomes so deep and so complex that new or casual players must spend 4-6 months to join their friends who have been playing for months or years.

I've had to drop dozens of quests because I've leveled faster then I could complete them all. Levelling in LOTRO isn't nearly as bas as WoW

Re:How will you avoid the traps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Definitely one of WoW's weak points.

I leveled two chars to 60 manually. Doing quests and instances with a bunch of morons who don't know what they are doing is the most annoying, retarded, waste of time, that I had ever experienced, twice. When it was time to start a new character, I bought wow-glider.

It minimized the amount of time I actually spent playing WoW, and made the time I did play, FUN. PvP PvP PvP PvP. Thats all I did. On my time on my schedule. Just playing a 29 lock that was geared to the teeth with over +200 shadow damage was the most fun that I had playing WoW. Killing people 11 levels higher in STV? Classic.

Then Blizzard banned me. Whammy!

Well that was it for me. I've still got another account that is inactive but not banned, and the rogue on it is a lot of fun, but I just don't like the way Blizzard handled me so I won't support them ever again. Should have known to stay away from them after bnetd.

Re:How will you avoid the traps?

[ajs]

Levelling in LOTRO isn't nearly as bas as WoW I think you missed the part where I mentioned that the problem stems from the content development process as the game transitions from release to long-term expansion cycles. One of the reasons that so many EQ players moved to WoW was because WoW provided fast leveling, fewer levels, and did not have the many-layered progression required to join friends in gaming that EQ had. Today, WoW has nearly as many progression hurdles as EQ had when WoW came out, and the content is still expanding.

So, the question isn't one of the hurdles presented by LOTRO *today*, but how content and progression can exist in a system that doesn't provide those hurdles *tomorrow*.

I for one welcome our hair-extended overlords

[WillAffleckUW]

And will scry into this Mithrandir ... what? it's Bill Gates eye staring back at me!

Re:I for one welcome our hair-extended overlords

[VRisaMetaphor]

No, that's Gandalf's eye, you fool. Now put him down and stare into Peregrine Took instead. You might get better results.

Silly Suggestion

[Petersko]

"Things like the UI itself being too small on my display "
Try a lower resolution.

When the price of a 1650x1080 widescreen LCD is as low as it is now it's simply retarded for a modern gaming company to not make allowances for large monitors and varying resolutions.

We're not in the old days, when 1024x768 was an extravagant.

How many Rings and do they unbalance play?

[WillAffleckUW]

Seriously, if I get the One Ring and I'm a Wizard, can I just win?

And what if I managed to loot a dwarven corpse and find one of the Five Rings? Or trick the Elf Queen to pass hers on?

And what kind of tone does a ring have when I download it onto the cellphone-version of LOTRO ...

Re: gold farming

[WillAffleckUW]

And, for that matter, do you have to be a Dwarf to be a gold farmer in the game?

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[misleb]

It isn't like players are just buying and selling all day long.
No, but some do. Profitable for your corp if you can stand it.

Exactly. And that is my point. Some people don't mind doing it. CCP has successfully made what would otherwise be a boring, pointless activity a part of the game. Heck, even griefers were tolerable in Eve for some reason. Sure, it is still annoying to have your ore/loot stolen, but outlaws and pirates are part of the game.

Talking about EVE almost makes me want to get into it again. Talking about WoW just makes me wonder why people play it at all. Hopefully LOTRO takes more from EVE than WoW.

-matthew

And for *everything* hobbity

[Colin Smith]

http://www.warofthering.net/

Re:Paying Multiple Times & Continuously-cheaps

[Kalriath]

Technically the software is almost free, because it comes with a month of game-time included. However, I certainly agree that each expansion should be afforded the same (a month of pre-paid time) and should be roughly the same price as a month of game time (although I certainly wouldn't begrudge a small markup to cover the cost of CD mastering, packaging, and shipping). Going with that, the original disc should not cost much more than a month of prepaid time. The exceptions which I do understand completely are "collectors editions" which have extra stuff in them which actually makes them legitimately cost a lot more to make, and and sell for more - because of all the extra stuff in them.

Dear MMORPG industry

[Zaphod-AVA]

Dear MMORPG industry,

When will you stop making games designed to waste huge gobs of time?

I don't put up with random 10 minute periods of doing nothing in other games, why should I with yours? Any game that makes me sit/travel/do nothing for 10 minutes running I immediately uninstall. I'd like a modern adventure game, but for some reason they refuse to jump to the next level on this issue.

-Z

Re:Dear MMORPG industry

[ajs]

When will you stop making games designed to waste huge gobs of time? When they stop being the most popular games.

I don't put up with random 10 minute periods of doing nothing in other games, why should I with yours? I don't know, but it does seem to attract billions of dollars worth of gamers...

Any game that makes me sit/travel/do nothing for 10 minutes running I immediately uninstall. Then clearly, you're not in the target audience.

I'd like a modern adventure game, but for some reason they refuse to jump to the next level on this issue. The problem is one of resources. You can afford to spend X amount of time on content development. You need players to spend Y amount of time interacting with that content where Y is at least larger than X, if not a substantial multiple. The most reliable way to do this is to make progression slower. Add reasons to repeat content (rare drops, faction farming, etc.), set time restrictions (raid resets once a week, daily quests, etc.)

These things are there because the most vocal members of the community tend to be those that play the most, and if the "buzz" is that the top-end players are done, and have "finished" the content, your game will not continue to grow.

That's not to say there aren't other approaches. I'd like to see an MMORPG where you progress more quickly, but there's a reason to level a second character once you achieve some goal with your first, for just one example.

Re:Dear MMORPG industry

[Zaphod-AVA]

Funny, I'm still only level one in the original Halo, and it still gets playtime from me regularly.

The idea of content being 'done' is part of the problem. Create a game with good gameplay and replayabiltiy, and you won't have to worry about wasting our time to keep us in your game.

Aimed at older gamers?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOTRO seems to have attracted a large number of older gamers due to the casual/slower gameplay, depth of storyline, Tolkien lore, and the lack of preteen-attracting PvP. Do you think this kind of niche market will be enough to sustain LOTRO, or will Turbine be forced to cater to the e-peen crowd down the road to keep numbers up?

MERP

[BigBuckHunter]

Hi there,

Most older gamers familiar with LOTR knew its original RPG incarnation MERP (Middle Earth Role Playing). How much, if any, inspiration will be drawn from the MERP universe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-earth_Role_Pla ying

Thank you,
BBH

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[Saxerman]

I think the real question on everyone's mind is: Do Balrogs have wings?

Long Term

[theskunkmonkey]

Since the game is currently limited Eriador and a level 50 cap, will each new region opening also bring an increase in the level cap, or will players conceivably have to play new regions at cap? I was an alpha tester and loved the game but did not carry into retail because I felt I would either be on the constant level grind or banging my head on a level cap with each new area. Cheers! Skunky

Ages of the World

[dmwst30]

Unlike most MMORPG's, there is a definitive ending to the LotR:O plot, with no possibility of a sequel in this timeline. Once the regular content updates have reached the end of this timeline, are there any plans for future content updates? Specifically, will you explore earlier Ages of the Tolkien universe, freeze the servers with the provided content, or do you have another contingency plan in place?

Is Turbine-employee participation dealt with?

[Angelwrath]

During the beta test of LOTRO, it was revealed that at least one, or more, Turbine employees were a part of the dominant guild, Extra Crispy (EC). They censored dissent and criticism towards the game, and demonstrated strong favouratism for some players.

Is Turbine going to enforce rules for Turbine employee participation to avoid issues like censorship and favouratism, and to avoid other potential scandals?

When can we expect dual monitor support?

[space tyrant xenu]

For those who like to run the game in a dual monitor format, it is inconvenient to have to decrease the horizontal window size to prevent your avatar from being in the middle where the monitors meet. Can we expect true dual monitor (or more) support in the future?

WoW launch?

[Kamokazi]

"...most well-received launch for a Massively Multiplayer game since World of Warcraft..."

Erm, I played WoW for a quite a while....ah hell, entirely too much (former Grand Marshal) and enjoyed the game and hold nothing against it...but its launch was terrible. Server instability and crashes galore...the game was offline as much as it was online for the first couple weeks. And any playtime you managed was plagued by overcrowding and latency issues. It ranks right down there with SWG and EQ: Shadows of Luclin launches. Could someone explain how that is "well-received?"

Also, why do so many people feel every midieval fantasy MMORPG has to compete with WoW? Aren't they allowed to appeal to a different and smaller audience?

Turbine, inc. or is it Turbine Entertainment ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because as CEO of Turbine, inc. I did my checking before choosing a corporate entity name. Turbine, just "Turbine" was available and so we chose it. When we did so, they were calling themselves Turbine Entertainment Software, inc.

I can't decide how to feel about it really. We aren't big...yet, but that doesn't seem relevant.

Mod me down for inane rambling that no-one else cares about - or do you care that someone takes over someone else's name?

End of Life - MMORPGs

[Anonymous Coward]

Has your company ever considered the following concerning MMORPGs:

Re-releasing the game at the end of it's life (ie, when the sequel is released) and allowing the purchasers of the game (bought at the usual ~$50 or whatever) to play on

a) company servers with no further support by the company other than keeping servers alive

b) community-run servers like most other games with only a company service kept alive to locate said community servers

I'll admit it - I don't have the monthly discretionary funds to support buying the game AND paying for it again every 3 months. Especially when I hardly have the time to play. However, I keep up as I can with the plots, storyline, etc in several MMORPGs and wish that I could at least "read the book", so to speak, later on. It seems like such a huge waste to simply end the huge universes put together in these games.

Thanks

the easy one

[Anonymous Coward]

What has he got in his pocketses?

Channel Moderation

[pbaer]

Do you have any plans to moderate the chat channels to keep them on topic for their intended purposes? In particular I'm thinking of /advice, /lookingforfellowship and /region. The spam can get pretty bad which I don't mind as long as it's in the spam channel (/ooc).

Playing with RL friends

[1ucius]

I basically like to game with a few real life friends. Unfortunately, level-based restrictions have really hurt our MMRPG experiences. For example, how do we accommodate a friend who can't play for a month or two? Or a friend who can only play in 1/2 of the 'normal' sessions? Or a friend who wants to join the group after a few months?

I appreciate that leveling is an important part of the business model . . . but is there anything like the Vanguard fellowship concept or CoH sidekick system that would give RL groups some flexibility?

Re:Has the game been optomized

[Anonymous Coward]

"Has the game been optomized"

I guess that depends on the definition of "optomized"... and, since you appear to have just made that word up, there's no way to know, unless you deign to share your definition with us.

Come on Tim! We all love to learn new things!

The timeless question

[dangitman]

How many Hobbits does it take to change a light globe?

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[dangitman]

Do you have any plans to deal with Gold Farming?

Isn't gold mined from ore, not farmed?

Re:Has the game been optomized

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey! Leave him alone! It's not his fault that his Christian faith doesn't extend to spelling, grammar or any semblance of coherence. Nor is it his fault that his native intelligence doesn't appear to be sufficient to learn the same: He is, after all, exactly as God made him (Praise be!).

Don't be ashamed that you're stupid, Tim! It's OK - God made you that way - keep the faith, that's what matters most!

Stats behind the scenes

[dmwst30]

Virtues, stats, deeds? I love the deeds in LotR:O but there are too many to complete with one character. So I'm completing those that seem relevant to a specific class. But no forum knows what the effects of different stats are. Can we have more transparency on what statistics actually do (i.e. values for regeneration vs. base stats)? Could you admit comparisons between these statistics?

Crafting: Farming, for instance

[dmwst30]

Farming is gimped (you lose money to train this skill) in the current patch, with promises of fixing farming as part of the economy (collection of resources, crafting of items) in a future patch. How dramatic are changes to the economy going to be in future patches, and are they meant to continue the grind towards mastery of crafting, to prevent gold farming, or to allow people to enjoy this aspect of the game while earning in-game money?

Class and Race Variations

[kilroy0097]

One of the things I realized right away was the small amount of classes and Races allowed to players. This leads to many cookie cutter type characters and rather lack in expansion possibilities outside new skills or abilities as add ons later. Two Questions: Is there any plans to expand the available classes or to add a 2nd tier of more specialized classes to the current class sets? Will there be an ability to play evil races such as Goblins and Orcs as player characters without using the special portal player controlled mob system?

Re:I was going to ask...

[fractoid]

Alive without breath, as cold as death
Never thirsty, ever drinking
All in mail, never clinking

Major Bug Fix news?

[Anonymous Coward]

It will quickly become apparent I play LOTRO and do like the game quite a bit however one of the smartest parts of the game is the Hope/Dread system based on enviromental effects around you. Hope when Gandalf turns up and you go, "ZOMG! Gandalf!!" your heart feels filled with hope and light and you do stuff better and Dread when Ring Wraiths turn up and you go, "ZOMG!!! A Ring Wraith?! WTF?!!!" and start to cower, stutter and see your morale bar get hammered down.

Players have found that the Hope side is not working as intended, is there an estimated fix scheduled?

Blizzard on Game Addiction @ the GDC

[neilsclark]

I was at the GDC's Addiction Roundtable this year, where a Blizzard employee actually had a few comments on game addiction. When creating the Burning Crusade expansion, Blizzard paid attention to mechanics that may have been forcing players to spend too much time at WoW, and the following quote was taken from that GDC roundtable:

"What we wanted to address was that if there were players [with problems] that was less of a concern [than] a direct result of a gameplay mechanic that required them to [play for long periods of time]."

What we call "addiction" is absolutely more complicated than most researchers are making it out to be, which sucks for the people who really do have problems. What developers do now will have important consequences for future games, for better or for worse. Knowing Turbine's considerations in lieu of addiction is a highly valid question - for developers, players, everybody.

And props to whoever came up with "hobbit forming." I'm totally stealing that.

Neils
http://neilsclark.com/

The Censor Filter

[Usagi_yo]

I would like to know why the word "Bible" is censored from public, private, trade, ooc, and all other chats. (it's replaced with '#!&#@') and other Religious books are not. Like Quran, Qur'an, Koran, Torah et al. I would like to follow up with: Who decided that people would be offended by the use of the word "Bible"? FYI, I discovered this while telling my son (who also plays), where I keep the passwords and pin codes. I was dissapointed so tried all the other chats and words and to my astonishment, "Bible" is censored (along with a bunch of 4 letter word).

Politics

[Pallando-zi]

What can you tell us about your plans for future changes to add political elements to the system? For instance, kinship halls or balance of power between the Grand Masters of the different crafting professions?

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[Pallando-zi]

Do you have any plans to help the Gold Farmers? Help them, not to farm gold, but to escape slavery, as revealed in recent documentaries:

http://www.gamingblog.org/entry/chinese-gold-farm- chinese-kids-forced-to-play-wow-for-12-hours-daily /
http://zestgames.com/?p=88

It is not just gold. Power leveling is also for sale:
http://www.coolingame.com/powerleveling/power-leve ling.php?gid=14

Surely this sort of repetitive behaviour can be detected?

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[fmarkham]

According to Wikipedia:

Farmer is a general term for a MMORPG player who attempts to acquire ("farm") items of value within a game, usually in order to exploit repetitive elements of the game's mechanics. This is usually accomplished by carrying out in-game actions (such as killing an important creature) repeatedly to maximize gains, sometimes by using a program such as a bot or automatic clicker. More broadly, the term could refer to a player of any type of game who repeats mundane actions over and over in order to collect in-game items. An organization which organizes farmers is known as a shop.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer_(gaming)

The Grey Shores?

[falfool]

Will we be able to travel to and discover the Grey Havens? I've always fantasied about them!

Crafting, and why its sorely overlooked?

[FlyveHest]

How come that crafting in LotRO is so simple, and, lets be honest, completely useless?

Generally, what could be described as the major professions (weapon/armor smithing) produces items that, at the level they are designated, are pretty much useless when compared to quest loot you get at the same level.

Why is it that no MMOs (other than Eve Online), seems to take crafting more seriously, ie, make crafting a class akin to fighter, magician etc, and not just something that people can do on the side, a true time/gold sink if there ever was one.

Just the thought of a game where you can actually build a character around crafting, and, be able to create and sell items that other players will actually use, are making me all warm and fuzzy.

And the world-events that could be spun on this, which Horizons tried a couple of years ago (and which was actually one of the things in the game that worked exceptionally well, getting large parts of the serverpopulation to work together in completing massive structures that would benefit a lot of players on the server)

So, in short, why is crafting so sorely neglected in almost all modern MMOs?

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

What features, beyond the behemoth license, do you feel warrant people spending their money on this game?

In all seriousness, this game's engine is nothing more than an enhanced DDO without the entertaining combat system. That unique combat system was the only thing that kept me playing DDO for as long as I did and with that lacking, I couldn't find any reason to stay with LOTRO beyond the free trial. The whole experience felt cheapened and shoddy.

How can players affect the world around them?

[rehtonAesoohC]

One major issue with me and MMORPG's is that players have no direct impact on the surrounding world. This becomes even more poignant in a world like Middle Earth. For instance, if player Imbiblo and his uber guild kills Shelob, the raid boss of the spider cave instance, will they have any effect on the rest of the world? Will Shelob continually come back? Will players be able to fight iconic characters such as this?

In short, how is it that players can be made to feel like they are contributing something to the progression of the war of the ring without breaking MMO dynamics and limitations?

fun with personel

[Anonymous Coward]

can geoff scott have a raise?

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[dangitman]

According to Wikipedia:

A sense of humour is the ability to experience humour, a quality which all people share, although the extent to which an individual will personally find something humorous depends on a host of absolute and relative variables, including geographical location, culture, maturity, level of education, and context. For example, young children (of any background) particularly favour slapstick, such as Punch and Judy puppet shows. Satire may rely more on understanding the target of the humour, and thus tends to appeal to more mature audiences.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor

Henchmen?

[xtheunknown]

There are some players who like to play MMORPG by themselves and find it either difficult to work in groups to accomplish tasks or just like playing alone. Are there any plans for adding computer controlled henchman or heros (ala Guild Wars) to LOTRO?

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried, but I couldn't find a Wikipedia entry for "dumbass".

Re:Virtual Economies (follow up).

[dangitman]

Try Wiktionary instead.