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Mandriva Says No to Microsoft Linux Deal
Kurtz'sKompund writes "French Linux vendor Mandriva said no to dealing with Microsoft on open source patents. They're the third Linux vendor in a week to do so, joining Red Hat and Ubuntu in the 'against' column. TechWorld reports that Mandriva's CEO echoed statements from other open source leaders, saying essentially 'we don't need to pay protection money to do our job.' From the article: 'Jonathan Eunice, an analyst at Illuminata, said Microsoft's deals with Xandros and Linspire don't have the same impact as they would if they had been made with a major Linux vendor such as Red Hat. "I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets," Eunice said.'"
So all these groups need to do is go "we'll make no deal" and they get free press on a bunch of geek news sites, more support from the community AND they get street cred?
Wow, who would side with MS when you can get 3 priceless things which your entire business model relies on?
I like muppets.
HOWLER MONKEYS!!
I was afraid everyone was going to cave in to M$.
What does Microsoft think it will get from these deals with distributions? I doubt most of them have patents that can be cross licensed. I gather most patents in OSS are retained by individuals, or by companies like IBM or Sun.
Microsoft's patent threat can only go so far.
a) Acting out a patent lawsuit against a European company would be an utter political disaster for Microsoft. As soon as MS starts filing patent lawsuits against European companies, the EU will invent a reason to sue Microsoft again and again.
b) Acting out a patent lawsuit against an American company that is well funded, such as IBM, would be a disaster for the software industry and invite federal involvement, which no one wants.
c) Microsoft, like many tech companies, has managed to alienate Republican support. Ballmer might be a Republican, but Gates has already said he's, sigh, for the other side. So, I wouldn't expect a great many Republicans leaping to the defense of MS in the event some sort of legal war goes against them. And surely, Democrats aren't exactly going to rush to defend an oligarchical billionaire's company. Microsoft doesn't really have the allies on the hill that it thinks it has, and Republicans remember MS didn't do them any favors after they got a sweetheart anti-trust deal to begin with.
Bottom line is this: Microsoft's patent threat is a threat only, one that would it be stupid to use, and Linux distros shouldn't be afraid of it.
This is my sig.
Seriously man, I said no too, seriously.
But seriously, what of Gentoo. I can't imagine them going along for the ride, but have they in fact said so publicly?
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
is what I think.
Way to go Mandriva. This affirms that MS is only able to pick off the weaker/greedier distro's.
Mandriva/Mandrake has held a place in my heart for a long time. It is up to date, and it has about the nicest install.
If you are going to give a linux PC to a newbie, they are one of the first I would recommend. They have configuration tools (drake) that are second to none.
It is a very nice distro, and now with the assurance that we are free from MS worries, I would highly recommend trying it to see if it is the right distro for your friends.
Let us not forget. MSFT does have a large war chest, and we cant be sure if it backs up a huge truck load of money on to the driveway of these players, these guys wont have a change of hearts and sing a different tune. So let us not celebrate it too much.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
"I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets," Eunice said.
Let's hope that perception catches on. Only second-tier Linux players go in for a Microsoft deal.
Want to give everyone the perception that you're one of the major players? Refuse to deal.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I hope now that a few distros have stood up, that every other one Microsoft approaches say NO!
Keep it real, Linux users!
Shameless plug alert: Game server control panel
This is the best thing that Linux distributions and other oss vendors could be doing - rejecting Microsoft's deals. They are based on F.U.D. and have no basis in fact. That's why Microsoft is so vague about it. F.U.D. is one of Microsoft's main marketing and business tactics.
Let's just say that MS had something that they could use against Redhat, Ubuntu, and Mandriva. And say MS somehow shut them down.
Could Linspire (or some other company that did cut a deal) take up the old source code, call it the Enterprise version or something, and distribute it, without worrying about getting sued?
The "pay protection money" makes the sweet folks at Microsoft sound like evil mobsters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walk_to_Canossa
l l-not-go-to-canossa/
http://corp.mandriva.com/webteam/2007/06/19/we-wi
Since they went with the bizarro agreement in the first place, I guess that makes them the ultimate second-tier vendor.
...i'm waiting...
Oh, I'm curious about these software patents. Can some one please show me a piece of software?
I'd like to hold it and examine it....
The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
It matters when a commercial distro stands tall instead of just cutting a deal with MS out of fear.
Thank you Mandriva for standing against Microsoft's attack on Free Software.
Could poor vista sales be the reason for Microsoft brandishing vagues patent threats?
I wonder how many more Linux vendors have to say no to Microsoft before they remember what got them in the position they're in. Didn't they at some point develop and ship software people wanted to use?
Note to Bill: Fire the lawyers and improve Vista. See the accompanying discussion to this article to begin pulling your head out.
Redhat, Ubuntu, and now Mandriva are not just holding out for more money from MS before caving in on the patent threat.
You can take that to the bank. And celebrate!
"I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets,". I think it is very tactless to call Novell second tier. Yeah they may have caved but truthfully they do work on several projects that border on Microsoft ISP Mono, OpenExchange, etc. Do I think it is bad form to partner with MS yes, but if you look at the deal Novell really didn't come out on the bad side of the exchange. Suse is a pretty powerful distro and arguably 3 or 4th in the Corporate distro list.
MS may be playing with opensource right now, but there is little doubt that the majority of Linux Distros have at least to some illegal degree taken ideas from windows. Probably nothing important, but none the less. Your talking about an entire industry that's literally obsessed with Microsoft alternatives. That being said the real statistic likely hood is actually that MS does have patents that are being infringed. They have been in the business much much longer and like it not the majority of all that is Linux is just a reverse engineering project based on Unix, Apple and Windows. Melting together the 'best' ideas from all platforms into Linux. You even have a start button on most distros, so good luck with the we don't have to pay intellectual property stance. That's a pretty dumb game to play these days considering MS likely wants minor compensation. The funny part is that the ONLY people who care or pay attention to MS lattest ploy are the Linux/open source fanboys. The rest of the world could care less if Linux is or is not using patent ideas. It pretty much assumed that nobody is paying enough attention to Linux for patent violations to be a focus. Of course, that may very well be why MS chose this strategy. It's a good one. Linux doesn't have good legal teams reviews all their positions on patents, especially with many pieces of software being free donations from the community. That means in many cases they can't be sure were the ideas came from that put together much of the software bundled in the OS. I highly doubt any Linux distro has fully quantified the possibility that anyone of the thousands of pieces of software bundled on their multi DVD images could very well be unfortunately close to patented code.
.. yet. Linux falls for the we'll give you money to look stupid trick everytime. Lindows, Ubuntu, Linux is not ready to be a desktop, why do you think Dell is selling it. Not to help Linux, but to show everyone why they'd rather have Vista for only 50 bucks more. Lindows was laughable and I'm pretty sure Ubuntu's Dell success is a deal born to fail. Ubuntu is their token OS to prove they aren't part of the MS evil empire, but they aren't actually interested in selling it and they probably make less money on it also, especially when you consider support is the new profit outlet. If people run Linux once they get their 3 programs installed that they actually use they probably won't be calling tech support .. for... I dunno.. ever.
Consider these things are left up to court to decice, not CEO's. It would be most wise for Linux to take the idea seriously that a patched together OS trying to compete in the corporate world is going to have to validify it's software origins. At the very least I'm saying they need to take this seriously. Just because Linux has gotten a free ride on patent infringement so far doesn't mean it can't be sued years or decades later and with serious fallout. Almost every major software provider has lost patent lawsuits and had to pay millions or make significant changes to their software. It would be stupid to think that Linux can avoid this problem. Using free software doesn't mean that your free software isn't infringing on someone elses patent. Even if you never heard of the software or person, even if you just created exceptionally similar software completely isolated from them. They will still win in court because they patented the idea first and your idea or software is simply perceived as a rip off.
Since it's a court interpreted thing, no one is safe. And there is little chance Linux hasn't stolen ideas from MS. AND the excuse that MS steals also is something a child would say. The point is business liability and it's not something you can proxy your way out of. If Linux distro's want to make money and play the game they will have to face the sad reality of patent laws at all levels. And maybe if they were smart they'd have their own legal team trying to do the same to MS. BUT... Linux and smart businesses just don't go together
http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularit y
by happy coincidence, lists 357 distros.
Redmond has bought off a couple already, and certainly a healthy chunk have a userbase in a low power of two. That leaves a couple hundered in the middle somewhere.
So the strategy can't be to try to bail out the ocean. Redmond's business acumen is way beyond that.
I'm thinking that this is all about hedging against further anti-trust litigation:
"But dad! We played nice with a whole bunch of those kids. That pile of human wreckage over in the corner is just a bunch of lazy whiners."
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Nice business you have there. It'd be a shame if I started a Linux distro... 300 Million and it won't happen...
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
It wants stronger FUD mojo...
Microsoft has got to know that if it really sued for patent infringement it would lose. Any minor infringement that did make it to litigation would be coded out ASAP. They wouldn't get billions and billions of dollars but they would lose their FUD talking points.
This can be a good thing. We are now separating the distros who have integrity from those that don't.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Obviously MS is paying off companies to avoid getting sued in future. Marketing spin is used to make it look like it is the other way around, but if it is unclear, follow the money. MS paid Novell M$40 not the other way around. What exactly it is that MS did that is making them scared of getting sued, I don't know, but it will probably come out in the next ten years or so. I guess they misappropriated a bunch of GPL code and is feeling guilty.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
They should also highly publicize this agreement. It will go a long way against the MS patent FUD. Actively recruiting players who were not approached, like IBM and Oracle, would go even further.
In the end, a couple things might happen:
In any case, mutualy defense is a win for F/OSS.
So mandriva doesn't think of themselves as a second-tier player?
lol
linux is cute sometimes
So how many years until those patents covering Windows '95 start expiring? The "Window" for lawsuits is closing. See how generics changed the pharmaceutical industry. Maybe it's time to make a patent /countdown site for some significant software patents. You see, this is why big companies or government will never be able to control the internet, it's too easy for competitive free speech and competitive free trade to occur online. Politicians won't commit political suicide in the US by censoring content (or even allowing everyone who has downloaded something "illegal" to be punished with "theft" and sentenced to jail). In the short term people that charge to "talk" will be ignored, because they are competing against those who talk for free (how them 'pay' news sites doing?). And lack of IP on "talk" hasn't caused the production of "talk" to stop.
Artists not necessarily being millionaires anymore is just the free market correctly valuing artist's contributions to society. It's a leisure activity. They can dig ditches from 9 to 5 to put food on the table, and practice music and do shows and release mp3s at the same time other people are home from work doing their own hobbies (which could be going to your shows or buying your music). And for the sake of simply avoiding of hypocricy will the pro-copyright and patent defenders please stop communicating their thoughts in a common language, and start mumbling gibberish understood by nobody but themselves. {silence} Thank you, that's much better.
"From DNA to P2P, we are all Copycats now. Go Go Copycat Power! Copycat Powers activate! Form of, a Copycat." --monxrtr
Novell should move to Europe (where the SuSE distro probably should have stayed, in hindsight) and tear up their MS patent agreement into little pieces.
Or heck, Red Hat (having rejected MS patents outright) could even go first, with Linus in tow.
It would make perfect sense if the MS threats weren't also aimed at users.
So, MS convinced some sucke...errr..vendors to cough up dough for licensing. If they don't pursue action against those that didn't bend over, how pissed off will those that shelled out $$$ be if others are getting it for free?
"You can't patent, you know, on-off-on-off code in the abstract, can you?"
-- Antonin Scalia
(IANAL)
It's so hot and I'm so tired I'd read that you had Mr Goatse's fax number.
Only on /. would that even make sense.
Ignore this signature. By order.
"Contracts are what you use against parties you have relationships with." - Darl McBride
See my small cartoon: http://geekandpoke.typepad.com/geekandpoke/2007/06 /prideful-france.html
Bye,
Oliver
Here's an example of this done goodlier: Thank goodness
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Jonathan Eunice .. I prefers Leinuce over Eunice.
It is no coincidence these are the 3 distros that are by far the most easy to install for users. They are also the most likely to install on both very new and very old hardware (with exception to SUSE's grinding down old hardware with their default cron jobs)...
One guy from East Lithuania also said NO to dealing with Microsoft. He has not been approached by anybody from Microsoft yet, but as he said 'I went public with it to spare Microsoft the disappointment'.
Has anyone noticed in the euphoria over distros standing up to M$ that M$ has already won the first round?
/Xandros /Linspire? They may, or may not die. If they die, the pool of competitors against M$ just got smaller, and the choices available to Linux users shrink. If they don't die, the community is fractured on whether or not to support these distros, and most probably there will be infighting within the community of Linux users.
Look what happened :
- Linux distros stand (more or less) united vs. M$
- M$ issues FUD over patents
- Some distros give in and licence with M$
- Community gets upset with licensed distros and threatens to boycott them.
So what happens if the community carries through its threat and boycotts Suse
Either way its profit for M$.
News in brief http://planetlinux.org/
"I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets" -- Is Novell a soft, second-tier player? Maybe MS just got lucky.
-Benjamin Vander Jagt
Since Linux can be re-distributed by anybody who wants to, couldn't I grab Debian/Red Hat/SuSe, re-brand it, throw up a website, and write an email to MS claiming they should send me boatloads of cash for a cross licensing agreement?
If I recall correctly, the MS deals are based on userbase, so I wouldn't have to pay MS very much money, but since their userbase is huge, they'd have to pay me quite a bit.
Would this work? I don't think MS has a leg to stand on, but if they want to pay me millions of dollars, I can pretend.
Maybe not
Sorry guys, but I was the one to write an article http://opensourcelearning.info/blog/?p=359/ on my weblog that first brought up the point that Mandriva is one of two companies I felt could be Microsoft's next target. After that there was some discussion http://opensourcelearning.info/blog/?p=362 on Mandriva's cooker mailinglist whether or not Mandriva should respond yes or no. In the end the Mandriva management came with a clear statement which was pre-announced here: http://opensourcelearning.info/blog/?p=365.
Am I complaining? Nooooooooo, of course not ;-)
It'd be a shame if something happened to it.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
If the traitor distros die then we all stand united.
If they don't (and I don't see how they can possibly continue now) they will become increasingly irrelevant.
The moment MS commits the mistake to sue somebody, these distros would stop receiving any further support form anybody in the Linux world.
They are a bunch of shortermist @(@!)(@@#!%^#
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
.... is pretty useless.....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
If MS does not take any action in enforcing their "patents", then many people would start to question if MS really has anything at all.
FUD like this is the short term strategy of the technological scoundrel, innovative companies are busy doing actual useful stuff.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The 3 distro-traitors had at least the decency to say that Linux is not infringing on any patents whatsoever.
And completely bypassing their worthless opinion in the subject, it is not for them to say or not if there are patent problems, since MS is not telling them what is there and most likely it would not be up to them to fix the problem anyway.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... the other distros are more like losing some bad hair frankly, they were bit players and now I hope they go down the drain.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.