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Did We Really Need Seven New Wonders?
freakxx writes "Seven new 'wonders of the world' have been announced today in a ceremony in Lisbon, Portugal. People throughout the world have voted actively to elect the new 7 out of 21 finalists.
The final lineup is: Chichen Itza, Mexico; Christ Redeemer, Brazil; The Great Wall, China; Machu Picchu, Peru; Petra, Jordan; The Roman Colosseum, Italy; and The Taj Mahal, India. The Pyramids of Giza was the only candidate that used to be among the original seven wonders. Did we really need seven new wonders of the world? Why was this decided via a website poll (pdf) and SMS messages?"
see topic...
~/.sig: No such file or directory
This was just a big worldwide scam... hoy many millions do they got with the SMS?? how big is their email database now? I bet that these mails will get a lot more spam...
-- Francisco Rivas C.
I guess the 8th is still Andre.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
I think the Pyramids came out the winner because they refused to participate.
Most of the original seven wonders are long gone. That's why this was needed. Really, what was the original list? Just a compilation from the Greco-Roman point of view. This time this could have more international flavor.
This is also good exposure not just to the 7 winners, but to all the nominees. I certainly learn about a few sights I have not heard of before. Unless you think us Americans really ought to go to stay ignorant and go to Disneyland every year (I give no money to that company).
A giant dashboard jesus? Here's a more sensible list:
1. The internet
2. The electric grid (this really can be seen from space, the great wall can't, really)
3. Voyager probes
4. Global Positioning System
5. The Human Genome Project
6. Nuclear power
7. Cochlear implants
I have never heard of this poll before, although I am living in western Europe. Did eastern Europe knew about it? Did Asia participate in this poll? Did Africa have the internet accesses to participate?
The previous list was enumerated by a Greek philosoph of the ancient time, it was not some marketing bullshit from Realizar Marketing.
RIP Slashdot. I used to love you. dead account - but slashdot wont let me delete it.
ignore it, there's no one in the world who can claim to "offically" represent this list. besides most people voting on the list would never have even seen any of them in the flesh. just another bogus list to ignore.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Uh, more like Seven New Tourism Marketing Ideas
No. But people just keep churning them out. Must be genetic.
...
Now, who's going to help me with my top 7 things we don't need more of:
1) Top X lists of things
ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
No, "we" didn't need seven new wonders, but the company behind this poll took money in exchange for letting people vote multiple times.
With the increased tourism revenue that being on this list would provide, one can expect that many governments would have taken advantage of this offer.
This list was a scam, plain and simple. There are so many wonderful things in the world... what the hell is the point of identifying 7 "most popular" ones?
"A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
Where were Howard Stern & votefortheworst.com when we really needed them?
At least the majority of people who spent time and/or money on voting made an informed choice by selecting historically relevant sites instead of voting for something like a cheap knockoff of a medieval castle like Neuschwanstein (some German VIPs, forgot who it was, asked on TV to vote for it), that was built only 120 years ago and has hardly any relevance to modern history apart from looking pretty and attracting tourists.
:/- spoon(_).
Did We Really Need Seven New Wonders?
B. Gates says that 6 is all anybody will ever need. (duck)
Table-ized A.I.
Any list of wonders that excludes Angkor Wat is a waste of time.
But they had actresses and fireworks, so it must be an important official event in the history of human civilivation.
Did We Really Need Seven New Wonders?
Well maybe Civilization V is coming out soon and they didn't want to go with the same crap as last time?
No, cuz it's a 38m tall statue of Jeebus! Anyway, I reckon you is lyin' about dat space stayshun, Benny Hinn told me dat the earth is flat and there aint nuttin round it but God. Anyway, I don't care 'bout some space stayshun, cuz I can't see or relate to it so it don't matter to me.
Statyoo of Jeebus tho, boy that's inspirashun! It's all the proof I need that evolooshun is a lie spread by followers of Satan! Yeeeup.
doesn't include a CowboyNeal option? Lame.
Distributed proteome folding @ WorldCommunityGrid.org
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it should be: 1. The internet porn
The Seven Wonders designation is going to be backed by many multi-million dollar marketing campaigns and I'm sure they plan on generating billions in tourism revenue.
All this hype and all this money about to be spent, and they decided the winners by SMS and a web poll? Where you can vote as often as you like?
A wall of mud/straw bricks, a rather basic statue? The Colosseum wasn't counted by the Greeks and Romans, because they didn't see it as particularly spectacular. Machu Picchu and Petra I can understand. Those are genuinely wonders, in my books. The difficulty in construction was more tan just a matter of patience and time - there were genuinely major technological problems that required solving.
Then consider the marvels of their use. The Great Wall was a showpiece - it had negligible defensive value and did far more to engender paranoia within the culture. Not particularly marvelous - politicians create such illusions to feed paranoid tendencies all the time. Petra was the trading capital of the world, even into Roman times. It was to ancient commerce what the major ports and stock exchanges combined are to modern commerce. And it was built by a bunch of nomads who were tired of trail rations, not some major advanced civilization.
When you look at the Ancient Wonders, you look at things that maxed out (or exceeded) the capabilities of those building it. There are several that are so staggering that people are still unsure if they ever existed. The fact that the upper Pyramid blocks were poured like concrete hardly diminishes them - it shows how much they had to push their engineers that they had to invent a whole entire branch of material science to just finish the damn thing.
"Christ the Redeemer" needed what? Some reinforced concrete and a layer of soapstone. A big construction, sure, worthy of being considered a great feat of sculpting, but hardly in the same league as requiring entire new sciences and technologies.
I like the idea of seven new wonders, but they really should be wonders. They should highlight the true pinnacles of the human spirit. The list presented highlighted the pinnacle of what looks good on a postcard. Not exactly what I'd call wonders.
As for the question of whether they should have been decided by vote, I'd have split this up. I'd have given votes to people over the Internet/phone/whatever, but I'd have made some effort to limit it to one person one vote. I would THEN have given a panel of scientists/engineers an equal number of votes to represent the technological/scientific wonderfulness of each site. Finally, I'd have given another equal portion of votes to anthropologists, sociologists and cultural experts covering as many cultures and nations as possible.
The winning seven would then be decided by the merits of the awe in individuals, the awe in the achievement and the likely longevity and universality of that awe. Anything that can do well in all three categories is deserving of being called a Wonder. In practical terms, this means stepping through each list until you find seven that every group agrees is top. If you go more than a few percent without finding seven, you keep the winners so far, dump the rest of the list, and start with fresh achievements. And you keep going until you have achieved a universal agreement on the seven greatest Wonders.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
The original wonders were buildings that amazed the world. A combination of beauty and engineering brilliance. But this isn't the first attempt to come up with new wonders andit won't be the last.
The Taj Mahal is an impressive building but still just a big house. Christ the Redeemer is iconic but not astounding.
The Great Wall is certainly something that belongs in the list. The Eiffel tower is another one - there are now taller structures but Eiffel built this at almost twice the size of the previous tallest building. A fantastic achievement in the 19th century. So, what else is there? Can we justify the footprints on the moon as a wonder of "the world"? And now I'm out of ideas.
But not a list generated by a self-selected set of voters, with little security over people voting twice (I have multiple cell numbers and an infinite number of E-mail addresses.)
You either need a verified, non self-selected set of the public, or a committee of top travel writers, like the Baseball hall of fame.
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
What should be the real seven wonders of the modern world? When the original seven wonders were listed, they were all things which were relevant at the time. The Taj Mahal is great; it is beautiful but it doesn't really have that much to say to us now or about us now. It is a dead monument with thousands of tourists walking around it. Most of the rest of the list are worse.
What should be there? Here are some alternative suggestions.
* the tunnels at CERN
* the Forth rail bridge
* the Gaudi cathedral in Barcelona
* the london eye (short term?)
* Petronas towers (inane, but impressive)
* the Moscow underground
surely someone can come up with a better list than the ones that came from the competition
they should have gone for different kinds of wonders instead of just a list of old crap. I would have liked to have seen a list of seven scientific wonders.
There has been enough cool stuff in science lately to get a list of seven "wonders".
God Be Gone
He also didn't limit it to only seven. Our world has many more things on it that would easily be classified as, "wonders." There's no reason for limitations (except, of course, for money, greed, or tourism dollars).
Most philosophers today DO have internet access.
Considering that thousands of people voted today in comparison with ONE MAN in the ancient time, I'd say there was a lot of participation.
And so what if it's just a "publicity stunt"? Perhaps this will help people to appreciate other cultures, and I don't think that is bad at all.
I can't believe the iphone didn't make it. This list is totally bogus.
Blearf. Blearf, I say.
We're now capable of far bigger feats of engineering and architecture so why not take a look at some of the modern wonders. e.g. The Panama canal, the 3 Gorges Dam, Taipei 101 etc etc.
Deleted
Something interesting happened to me.
Before this new 7 wonders stuff... I had never really appreciated the pyramid of Chichen Itza (I'm mexican). I said, yeah it's just an old building so what? The egyptian pyramids are cooler.
But due to the new 7 wonders poll, Discovery Channel made a documentary about Chichen Itza. I was amazed of the cultural richness of that thing. Not only the pyramid, but the whole temple and mayan culture. It really helped me appreciate my own roots.
So, how should we mod the new 7 wonders phenomenon? Troll? Interesting? Insightful? Informative?
I'd say both interesting and insightful, and if we count the future documentaries done on these wonders, I'd add "Informative", too.
This was nothing but a publicity stunt to boost tourism in these regions. I wonder how much was paid to the organization for placement in the poll.
The biggest monolithic sculpture in the world is the "Cruz de los Caidos" (The cross of the fallen) in Spain
D dos
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valle_de_los_Ca%C3%A
Is 150m tall and 46m wide and in the base has the second tallest basilica (42m) that compared with the 38 m of the "The Christ the Redeemer" it fits inside. But, the Cross of the Fallen It has never been eligible as a wonder because it is the megalomaniac tomb of a dictator without political issues I think it should be at least in the top 10. But in the same way I wonder how many people died build the Coliseum that it is also a megalomaniac building of the emperor Vespasian.
This new list it is just a marketing show about the popularity of some buildings that most people hear about. If this list would be about size, the power grid is the biggest human make construction ever by far. If this list would be about human achievement lets talk about the Genome Project or the Apollo Program. It is just another buggy list not to be taken care.
Yea, it was a publicity stunt, but that doesn't detract from its value. However, the criteria is ambiguous. What are 7 wonders? If it is the greatest achievements of civilisation then few if any of the choices or even the candidates, are applicable. Shouldn't the tallest building in the world be chosen? The greatest dam? The longest bridge? Yet these were not even candidates.
It seems that the criteria is amazing man-made features around the world. I'll go along with that, I actually enjoy visiting remote areas (and even not so remote), viewing achievements that may have been at the time a great leap of engineering prowess. But then, one asks, how can 1 milliard Chinese many of whom have not visited even the Great Wall be the voters. The choice should be made of an informed position and not through popularised contest.
As for me, I visited over half of the candidates, and over half the chosen sites, and I would have found it hard to choose between the places I've visited let alone those on which I never laid my eyes nor foot (I never voted).
Truthfully, how many of the voters visited Angkor Wat or even know what it is? And this is a site which I would be hard pressed to exclude from any list of historical wonders, or tourist attractions.
This is pure speculation, but I can't help relating the election of the Christ Redeemer (as others have pointed, a beautiful monument, but not a wonder of the world) to the kind of Brazilian presence I noticed at Orkut, on PicasaWeb and other social sites. They love to make their presence known, they are big fans (torcedores), in a way.
I also remember how the "best book" election we had a few years ago went to The Lord of the Rings: While I love the book, I'm fairly certain the election had more to do with the fact that internet geeks love it than with its quality.
"I think it would be a good idea!"
Gandhi, about Internet Security
The Universe
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Seems like we are extremely short sighted in our localized definition of wonders
In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep.
The seven wonders of the world should not be decided by SMS and online polls. That eliminates a huge ammount of the population. Of course, I can't think of a better way of doing it. And I also think that a large number of that eliminated group wouldn't have the global knowledge, or the inclination, to pick seven different things. But it's still unfair and further widens the digital divide (if indeed the digital divide exists...)
THUD~*
I agree - this is the kind of thing that at the very least should be sent out with a governmental census in at the least major nations throughout the world. All this is is as you said - a couple of scam artists who got a bunch of lit-study and art students at a few local colleges who are smart enough to know world history and geography but not have the common sense to see a scam like this to pick from a multiple choice list of prechosen items...
Also, this is one more thing to make current generations look like total idiots to their grandkids 50 years from now - like how they recently announced that Pluto is not actually a planet. People all over will be telling their grandkids "Back in my day, Pluto *WAS* a planet, and their were only *7* wonders of the world! AND we liked it that way!" to be responded with "Ya, sure grampa, time for your medication now!"
This is a worthless gimmick conceived by someone out to make a buck - because the list will influence some tourists' destinations this summer (and I'd wager that some of those on the list paid there way up there) - and lapped up by popular media in the place of surfboarding ferrets. As if there are only 21 valuable places in the world (the shortlist), and an internet vote can provide an unbiased and definitive list of the seven 'greatest'.
There are thousands of fantastic places in the world. The UN's world heritage sites (660 cultural, 166 natural) are but a start at cataloguing and an attempt to protect them.
Personally, I'd rather we just leave it alone. But if we're going to change it to reflect the new age, then we should also reflect on the fact that there are a shitload more countries now than in the days of ancient Greece, and each country should be allowed the opportunity to show off at least one thing that they are all proud of.
And how about Mount Rushmore? I could never take the list of original 'options' seriously when I noticed that it had e.g. the Sydney Opera House. Don't get me wrong, the Sydney Opera House is a marvel of engineering - but compared to Mt. Rushmore and, indeed, Angkor Wat.. ?
I think this is a more sensible list
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list
The original 7 wonders weren't of the ancient world either... they are now, because we're living quite a few years later. But when the original list was made, it was of sites/objects roughly from that time. E.g. the lighthouse.
And if you just can't get enough wonders today, here is another such list: "The 7 Wonders of the Internet."0 6&page=0%2C0&t51hb=
http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/168
I mean come one, they are just piles of bricks or stone. If they did not include the Atlas 5 rocket (most complex machine in the world at that time... only object that could put us on another world) as a WONDER then phoey on them.
(first, one hand -- er, foot -- to our USofAn friends)
Statue of Liberty 151' 1" (46.5 m) + pedestal 154 feet (46.9 m) = 305'1" (93.4 m)
Christ Redeemer 125 feet (38 m) + Corcovado 2,330 feet (710 m) = 2,455' (748 m)
Both standing on the Atlantic Ocean (the Corcovado is a mountain right on the shore (*), and that's what make it quite impressive...) I'm Brasilian, but not Carioca, so I have only been there twice, but the view is incredible.
(*) Ok, technically not. The Corcovado is right on top of the Lagoa Rodrigo de Freitas, and the Lagoa is itself like 1km from the shore. take a look.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Earlier this year cbc had a "seven wonders of Canada" contest which produced a list that had one, perhaps two good entries if you were looking for natural wonders and five winners that can only make one go huh?
Mind you, if the commercials cbc was running were any indication of the quality of the entries they received, these may well have been the best entries; I remember one woman in a commercial explaining that the bay of fundy should be on the list for "having the nicest people she'd ever met". (btw if one is doing natural wonders the bay of fundy most certainly is one of the wonders of Canada but that has nothing to do with how nice the people are)
Seems most people think it's a bad list. Maybe, but I think the voting systems is the reason has no credibility.
My selection criteria:
1. No machines used to make it.
2. Size or complexity seems beyond the scope of point 1.
3. Some other meaning or alignment that seems beyond explaination / difficult for the time, such as complex alignment with planets / sun / seasons etc.
4. Many many years old, and will last many many more. Like thousands?
I've travelled a bit and have visited most of the new seven wonders...
I don't know what they judge the wonders by, but a few i'd have on my list are:
* The Golden Temple, Amritsar, India (for me more beautiful than the Taj mahal)
* The Golden Gate Bridge
* Crack De Chevaliers, Syria (huge ruined Crusader fortification)
* The Potala Palace, Lhasa, Tibet. (Stunning on first sight).
* The Panama Canal
News for nerds. Stuff that matters. 0 for 2
At least Stevie Nicks might live to see these ones.
AT&ROFLMAO
Well, I see my grandson in his little room in the moon base thinking obout The great wonders. I suppose it must be something that lead my grandson to think, Wow! It is incredible how the human kind can make great thinks. How can we superb that? Even with the actual technology it something incredible to make. Or don't we think that about the Great Piramids and the Great Wall thoundsand years before they have been made?
Oh! Sorry my son, during my time the wonders were Christ Redeemer, The Roman Colosseum and The Taj Mahal. Beautifull buildings, but they are not wonders. And we don't include the IIS, the ITER, the Genome Project, the Unified Field Quantum Theory, etc.
I will rely on my grandchild to decide what are the real great wonders.
the top 7 list was made. Why not make it a top 10 list now? its been how many thousands of years since the OG list items were made. If we cant list just three accomplishments over those since then we are screwed as a species. or 1. New wonders 2. ??? 3. Profit!
Balderdash!
I would argue that this has nothing at all to do the wonders in the world, but is merely your own politcal rant. However, each of the member countries, note I did not say states, of the EU have a history going back 1000s of years. Were each of the states which now makes up the USA ever recognised as independent countries? If so, by whom?
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
....now that we are wondering that why we have a new set of 7 wonders? Uggh...this is so unnecessary. Indians did get into a frenzy promoting Taj. The true wonders will stand the test of time - there wont be 7 either.
They have forgotten the elevator! and things you really can do on an elevator, here is my list: 10 things you should try on a elevator: 1. Grimace painfully while smacking your forehead and muttering: "Shut up, dammit, all of you just shut UP!" 2. Whistle the first seven notes of "It's a Small World" incessantly. 3. Crack open your briefcase or purse, and while peering inside ask: "Got enough air in there?" 4. Offer name tags to everyone getting on the elevator. Wear yours upside-down. 5. Stand silent and motionless in the corner, facing the wall, without getting off. 6. When arriving at your floor, grunt and strain to yank the doors open, then act embarrassed when they open by themselves. 7. Greet everyone getting on the elevator with a warm handshake and ask them to call you Admiral. 8. On the highest floor, hold the door open and demand that it stay open until you hear the penny you dropped down the shaft go "plink" at the bottom. 9. Stare, grinning, at another passenger for a while, and then announce: "I've got new socks on!" 10. When at least 8 people have boarded, moan from the back: "Oh, no, not now, damn motion sickness!" 11. Meow occasionally. 12. Holler "Chutes away!" whenever the elevator descends. 13. Walk on with a cooler that says "human head" on the side. 14. Stare at another passenger for a while, then announce "You're one of THEM!" and move to the far corner of the elevator. 15. Wear a puppet on your hand and talk to other passengers "through" it. 16. When the elevator is silent, look around and ask "is that your beeper?" 17. Say "Ding!" at each floor. 18. Say "I wonder what all these do" and push the red buttons. 19. Listen to the elevator walls with a stethoscope. 20. Draw a little square on the floor with chalk and announce to the other passengers that this is your "personal space." 21. Announce in a demonic voice: "I must find a more suitable host body." 22. Make explosion noises when anyone presses a button. 23. Wear "X-Ray Specs" and leer suggestively at other passengers. 24. Stop at every floor, run off the elevator, then run back on. This list is just as needed as the list in question.
Dude, the Great Wall of China is awesome. It basically protects you from almost all aggression for a huge chunk of the game, thus allowing you to focus your attention almost exclusively on using your resources to build up your cities and rapidly expand your territory.
Wonders that you want to definitely want to have:
1. The Pyramids (free Granary in every city);
2. The Great Library (automatically get every advancement learnt by two rivals until Electricity);
3. The Great Wall (enemies must offer a ceasefire or peace in negotiations until Metallurgy);
4. Marko Polo's Embassy (free embassies, best info on your rivals);
5. Leonardo's Workshop (upgrades obsolete units to the best possible until Automobile);
6. Shakespeare's Theatre (city is always content, awesome for later conquesting);
7. King Richard's Crusade (huge shield boost for city, great for pumping out other wonders quickly while it lasts);
8. Michelangelo's Chapel (free Cathedral in every city, doesn't expire like some other happiness Wonders);
9. Sun Tzu's War Academy (produce veteran military units without Barracks until Mobile Warfare);
10. Adam Smith's Trading Co. (reduces your maintenance costs by a chunk);
11. Hoover Dam (clean power to all your cities, boosting shield output);
12. Women's Sufferage (free Police Station in every city, helps conquesting);
13. United Nations (like the Great Wall but later in the game);
14. SETI Program (doubles your science output across the board);
15. Cure for Cancer (one extra happy citizen in all cities).
The other 13 Wonders are a mixed bag. Some are pretty useful (eg, Magellan's Expedition, which will help your navy and is good if you're crossing large oceans) but some are just dire (eg, Collosus, which will get you a mediocre trade boost).
Given a choice between the Great Wall and the Hanging Gardens and I'll take the Great Wall any day.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
The Pantheon is much more impressive -- in continuous use since 125 AD, *still* the largest unreinforced concrete dome ever built and was the largest dome in the world for 1,600 years!
Have you actually seen the Taj Mahal for yourself? I have. Twice. The sheer beauty of it, in terms of aesthetics, and of design, and of engineering and even of mathematics, really blows your socks off.
The fact that you dismiss it without having actually seen it (the fact that you describe a mausoleum built by an Emperor to honour his dead wife as a house says it all) blows my mind. It's the single most breathtaking building I've yet to see, and I've seen many (but not all) of the others that made the shortlist, too.
One thing I would say about the voting for this new list is that it was let down by being turned into a national and even a religious pride pissing contest. In some countries people were strongly encouranged to vote for the entrants that were in their borders and there were similar ballot-stuffing manouvres by religous groups for those icons that were significant to their faiths.
Indeed, there had been some concern that some of the shortlist were only chosen for that reason. To be honest, as iconic as it is as part of the Rio de Janeiro skyline, Christ the Redeemer doesn't even strike me as being one of the most worthy Christian monuments to pick from. Gaudi's La Sagrada Familia, unfinished though it might be, is far more impressive.
There are lots of criticisms that you can make about this list. That the Taj Mahal is on it really doesn't strike me as being anything close to being one of them.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Well, I cannot get excited about it either way, we will have to differ in our opinion. "I haven't researched the issue" == "I don't know" if you want to know what I think. "certainly met the criteria" == "we could have if we had wanted to, but we didn't get round to doing anything about it". And you seemed to do a pretty good job of getting rid of those American Indian nations that you proudly refer to as proof of your long history so that they are now left with parcels of land of your choosing to live on as best they can under your rules.
However, this will be a sterile and pointless argument because you seem to be either having a bad Sunday, or you strongly dislike Europe which provided much of the stock from which many Americans are descended. But rather than interfere (again) in how foreign countries do things why don't you do something in the one country where you have a right to be heard? You know, the USA. Start a movement to split it into a much larger number of smaller countries. Then you can each pick your own 'wonder' and you don't have to be an idiot by telling other countries how they should behave.
I mean no offence to the millions of other decent Americans, but you seem to be one of the exceptions that proves the rule.
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
There are really some people that are just made to scam everyone else and get rich(er) in the process. Let's see:
According to the terms of the company that set all this thing up, New Open World Corporation, anyone could vote one time for free, on the internet. You could additionaly vote as much as you wanted via sms. Also according to their terms, they could exclude any votes they wished, at any time.
If you believe their 100 million votes claim, and if you think that each sms vote costs 50 euro cents (I usually see them more expensive on contests, so the lower price helps offset the free votes), they just made a whooping 50 million euros with the sms voting alone. Now this doesn't count all the private donations they got, most definitely from countries that wanted to make sure their entry made it to the top of the list and stayed there (after all, it is a nice boom for tourism) - I don't know if the countries payed to have their entries on the list per-se, but you can bet the tv stations that syndicated the show payed through their nose for the rights.
The show in Lisbon cost 12 million euros. We can even raise that figure to 20 million to cover the marketing campaign costs of the last 6 months. Heck, put in 25 million, just to be on the safe side.
They still made 25 million euros with the sms voting alone. Now how's that for a scam?
shana
You must be from brasil. Only a brasilian would have such an horrid command of the english language and not even be aware of it enough to use a fucking spell checker, so others wouldn't have to suffer having to read it.
Toma vergonha na cara e vai aprender a escrever, ó brasileiro burro de merda. Francamente!
I live like less than half a mile to the stadium where the declaration happened... I even heard the noises! they were keeping me from studying Computer science.. :D
Funny to mention that in the end of the show, the man responsible is know preparing the NEW SEVEN WONDERS OF NATURE. (More money to him... )
God had a 7 day deadline... So he made the world in LISP
There are a number of other difference, such as tax law. The EU can not impose taxes directly on individuals or companies within the union, it can only collect fees from the the member governments, which raise these via taxation (and can refuse to pay).
While some people are pushing the EU in the direction of a Federal Europe, it is still currently a primarily economic alliance. Each member state sets its own taxes, raises its own army, enters into economic and military treaties individually, and declares war individually, and has its own embassies in other countries.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
If the Empire State Building isn't on that list, it's bullshit.
And if you think it doesn't belong, but have never been to its top for the view, or just seen it dominate the skyline of NYC, even among its wondrous neighbors, a beacon for a hundred miles among the tens of millions of jaded East Coasters, then you should stick with "a beer on the house" as your limit of wonder.
--
make install -not war
It's all about size and how many people it takes to really build one. A wonder is supposed to be about how many people a civilization can command at a high level of technology. Anyone whose played Age of Empires can see that.
1. Pyramids
2. Great Wall
3. Panama Canal
4. Three Gorges Dam
5. US Interstate System
6. Airbus A380
7. USS George HW Bush
This is my sig.
At least until there is a shared constitution I would say you cannot possibly merge it together.
I personally think it will be more than that though. It needs to get to the point that members cannot leave without threat of war (like in Canada, USSR, or USA) before you call it one entity and not a coalition of loose entities. The time will come, but it is not now.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Such a clear evidence of B-Ark-descending...
I happily acknowledge all the nations that have contributed to the make up of the USA. I apologise if I didn't name them all individually.
I asked who recognised each of the states as independent countries. You appear to confirm that they recognised each other but that there was no appreciable recognition from outside the land that now comprises the USA. Having alliances during a war does not confer nationhood on anyone. I don't have a problem with this but I did ask for clarification, not your second rant of the day. Have you tried a different brand of coffee?
So are you saying that your only complaint is that your particular state wasn't allowed to choose a new 'wonder'? And that's because you have chosen "to form a single government that all lend ear to while retaining independence"? As I said, sort out your own problems and do not try to change what exists in Europe. The various countries that make up the EU appear to have considerable freedom to do as they each wish but, where they have agreed to cooperate then there are mutual benefits from having similar legislation. Not all countries are part of the monetary union (UK isn't). That each of the states (who want to be known as countries because they a big, have their own forces etc) cannot chose a 'wonder' is an INTERNAL affair and nothing to do with international bodies. You chose to become a union with a single voice. We haven't, but we recognise the value of speaking with one voice on matters that might affect us all. Each country has the right to its own foreign policy (does each state have a foreign policy?). Each country has its own ministers and representatives in international organisations (do the 'states' do the same thing?). Each country can deploy its forces as it sees fit (can the states deploy forces overseas into battle without the US government having a say in the matter?). Each country has diplomatic staff and representations in embassies and consulates around the world (do each of the states have a similar facility?). You chose your system and you are complaining that we seem to have done better with ours in that we have better representation for each national group.
The whole 'wonders' thing was an advertising and money making event, not some major international policy decision. Please have a sense of perspective. This is not something of great import to anyone. Write to the people who organised it and point out that your state will happily pay for the right to be able to pick a 'wonder' for the new list. I'm sure they will be please to let you do so and they will also be grateful for your money (and email addresses).
Its Sunday, please take it easy and rest before the working week begins again. Chill out. Have a glass of wine. :-)
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
and imagine a ... ah nevermind.
-Yourmomisfasterthanabeowulfcluster
8. Cowboy Neal's Giant Erection.
Of course, the "seven wonders of the new world" were made up by the US, since they were jealous they didn't have one in the list. Note the "new world" doesn't seem to contain South America.
You can try to act like a serious person and say we didn't need, and that it is a conspiracy to sell air line tickets and that the Communists and etc... Sometimes we got to stop complaining like old ladies about everything we listen in the news...
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
this is why the internet isn't cool - there's nothing really to see
why computers aren't cool - you can't see the programs run
why antibiotics aren't cool - you can't see how they work
and so, if I've got a description of the great pyramids, colossus of rhoads, or great wall of china - the utter vastness of them, the timelessness of them and the unimaginable difficulties with which they were built...i'm not impressed. Because I can't see it in the flesh. Bah, I say.
no
This focuses on the good wonders, but what about the bad wonders ? Like in the sentence "I wonder how we could have let that happen".
1. Letting Diebold get away with rigging the elections right in everyone's face!
2. Destroying the US economy by funneling most of the country's cash into credit firms and war efforts
3. Spending man-years in court fighting over flexible definitions of common English terms
4. Making huge violent fusses over our imaginary friends in the sky
5. Being more interested in building the highest, most expensive hotel on the globe, than diverting 1% of that money to help improve local conditions and health.
6. Having a solution to nuclear war that's called "mutually assured destruction"
7. Being so obsessed with other people's money that we have to fight over who gets included in some bullshit tourist list.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Before we start adding some piddling monuments like Mt. Rushmore, I think we need to consider some more of our overlooked wonders:
. html
. htm
world's largest ball of string:
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/MNDARtwine
world's largest pecan:
http://www.worldslargestthings.com/missouri/pecan
world's largest buffalo:
http://www.wlra.us/wl/wlbuffalo.htm
world's largest pineapple:
http://www.wlra.us/wl/wlpineapple.htm
world's largest muskie:
http://www.wlra.us/wl/wlmuskie.htm
world's largest catsup bottle:
http://www.catsupbottle.com/
I went to Macchu Picchu about two weeks ago. They had computers lined up outside, hooked up to the Internet, Kiosk-moded to the survey website for this retarded thing.
I thought exactly the same thing as all of you, but I'd also argue that there's probably a good chunk of the votes coming from the shell-shocked people walking out of places like Macchu Picchu. I know I was tempted, because goddamn... It's beautiful, and amazing architecture, and a good bit of impressive history, and a little halucinogenic garden...
But this kind of shit really cheapens it. That, and the $70 ticket for the train to Aguascalientes (a small town of "hot" springs that are kind of lukewarm, that exists only to be a tourist town), then another, what, $20 for the bus ride and $50 for the ticket? I forget (I wasn't paying). The person who did pay (my father) was certainly convinced it was worth every penny, and I am too, but the commercialization is bullshit. Oh well, at least the rest of the country is cheap...
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Honestly, I'm surprised Ron Paul didn't make the list. He wins all internet polls.
The Great Wall - Gives a free city wall to each of your cities until three turns later when an AI player's discovery of gunpowder will make city walls obsolete.
Chichen Itza - Adds 1 to the trade production of the city due to very modest tourism.
Machu Picchu - All llama-based units cost half as many shields to produce.
Petra - All units regenerate without having to be in a city, provided that Indiana Jones manages to retrieve the Holy Grail from it without destroying the entire place. Don't get your hopes up.
Roman Colosseum - Just like a regular colosseum, just much more expensive.
Taj Mahal - Allows you to show off to the entire world that yes, indeed you do have already discovered Ceremonial Burial. Go you.
Christ Redeemer - Allows you to build the New Seven Wonders Poll wonder.
New Seven Wonders Poll (requires The Internet and the Christ Redeemer wonder) - Generates 1 unrest in all cities of civilizations who have discovered The Internet due to Slashdotters being enraged over the Christ Redeemer making the list.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Western civilization started with Ancient Greece and from the very beginning 'evil' westerners did not include the accomplishments of other races!
Face it folks it is the 'Seven Wonders of the Ancient World' AS KNOWN BY ANCIENT GREEKS. Greeks did not know much about what is in India or China despite accidental contacts and exchanges of goods with these remote parts of the Old World; the New World (Americas, Australia, Antartica) was thousands of years away from being discovered by Westerners.
The list was completed thousands of years ago and people who did it are long gone; history cannot be undone, get over it!
I strongly disagree with you. What use is running this along a census if a good part of the people never saw even one of those, let alone enough of them to make an educated choice ?
You have 21 candidates ? Ok, only people who has ever visited (no photos) all of them should be allowed to pool.
As things stand, people voted on the one on their own country (mostly). I know that is what happened in Brazil (being a brazilian myself).
morcego
to the frontpage of slashdot. Is today an immobile news day or something?
I'm glad now that the guys in charge of the Pyramids in Egypt said outright that they wouldn't compete in this ridiculous competition. The Christ the Redeemer statue was built less than 100 years ago and just demonstrates that Brazil has alot of people with computers and cellphones and Christians. First of all, it was not a technologically advanced feat (statue of liberty is twice as high and has way more historical significance) and neither is it wondrous in its scale. If we're going to pick structures built such a short time ago, how about the Empire State Building which was also built around the same time, has iconic status, was an engineering accomplishment, and went up in a year? Of course none of these should be on the list b/c there are truly, wondrous, ancient structures like the Parthenon (too amazing to describe), or Hagia Sophia (domed buildings!), Al Hambra, or the Aqueducts that were truly difficult to build, engineering marvels, and structures that have withstood the test of time. Having the Redeemer statue on the list would be like putting the Noah's ark attraction in the US on the list. All the evenagelists and rednecks who have never been outside the US would pick it as a wonder and it would be one of the new 7 wonders. What a BS contest.
The Great Wall deserves to be on that list. The rest of them? Come on, they're not "wonders of the world." I mean, the Colloseum is in ruins. If it was ever a wonder if the world, it is no longer. What about the Great Pyramid of Giza and the Sphinx? Those are clearly wonders, and engineers still can't figure out how they were built. And how about the Space Station?
I agree totally on the second part of your post. But on the first part, I disagree. Tall stone sculpture is not new. Heck if some historical report are to be believed the colossus was 30+ meter high. Tousand of year before the Jesus of Brasil. But even then with Modern engineering this is even easier. On the other hand 300 meter tall metallic structure is not that easy even with today's engineering, here we are speaking of 19th century. The carving of the stone is problematic because you ahve to do it in small aprt and you could do an error in the proportion. But afterward all you have to do is put the block one on each other for 40 meter, a big crane can do it and a lot of patience. As I said, many have been doing that for a long time since stone was the easiest material to make structure of. On the other hand try imaginating bringing multi ton steel with 19th century tech on top of a 200 or 250m building, making everything hold together , AND hold against the wind. The heighth alone make it a feat on another scale than the stone status.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
The current situation of the EU is very reminiscent of the Articles of Confederation in effect prior to the ratification of the U.S. Constitution.
Since humans destroyed most of the old ones. Now we have a new hit list. Bush is probably already planning to find WMD there. Having a new list also removes the ugly past from memory.
All part of the plan to make sure kids only have happy thoughts, never fail, and don't have anything to worry about when they are born with over $500k of debt thanks to the old people.
Double plus good.
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
9. ...
10. Profit!
I can't believe it!!!!!
Well, I think they made the right choice in not designating Pluto as a full planet. There's a sun-orbiting piece of rock further out from Pluto's orbit that is actually larger than Pluto. Should Eris also be considered a planet then? How about other large trans-Neptunian rocks? Should those be considered planets? That was the motivation behind demoting Pluto.
I can understand the Brazillians rooting for their country and SMSing in the statue of Christ. It IS pretty cool. That said, what really blew my mind is that while 3 (!) things from South America made it, the Easter Island statues didn't and Stonehenge didn't either? And if you're going to push a Mexican Mayan pyramid, what about the huge carved Olmec stone heads. That they did that with rock tools amazes me every time I see it. And to ignore thousands of years of human history by ignoring the megalithic era, such as Stonehenge, Carnac or the huge cairns in Ireland simply stuns me. Those people did those things without any metal tools! And there is, apart from the Pyramids, nothing from Africa. Why? And if you can include something like the Statue in Rio, whx can't you include the Sydney opera house which is easily as iconic?
Too many whys. I think we should start our own list.
Building the Collossus in a city with decent trade is the best way to boost your income and research early. I'm suprised you passed over all the science-doubling wonders prior to SETI - you build a few of those in the same city as the Collossus and you have one scary research machine.
Some of the sites are interesting, but they're all fucking ancient. Did the Greeks pick things that
were falling apart when they made their list? No, they chose contemporary works (note also *works*,
i.e; man made, so no Grand Canyon). Of course, when you've got steel and concrete, it takes a lot
more to impress... Maybe the Chunnel or Golden Gate?
Were that I say, pancakes?
Did you Europeans or Americans even hear about this to even vote? Of course not.
The guy who started this thing, some ultra-rich self-hating Swiss, wanted to do it to be "culturally inclusive" and sensitive. That translates into "no whites". Which is why only one European site is named, and no North American sites (e.g. no Statue of Liberty.) Also no Stonehenge, no Eiffel Tower, etc. Whites built those, so those are "bad" in the mind of crazed European self-hating rich whites who ran this thing.
Political Correctness run amuck, as usual.
Around 1850 engineers were looking to redesign London's sewer system and determined that Rome's Cloaca Maxima and Colosseum had the most modern sewer systems in the world - able to handle the waste disposal of 50,000 people about 2000 years ago.
So, in the 19th century London applied lessons learned from the colosseum 2000 years before. Between that and the various mechanisms for raising a cage out of the floor, or flooding the entire things for water fights or raising sails to shade the spectators - I'd call that a wonder.
Should all countries get the same number of slots? Even Luxembourg?
VH1 needed to fill another half hour of air time.
Did I say overlords? I meant protectors.
The LHC isn't built or used yet, so it doesn't really qualify. Same with anything else not yet built.
The HGP was a representative of the various genetic biotech that we've developed over the last 50 years or so. I'll admit that picking one specific thing is rather arbitrary.
You're wrong about nuclear power. We've got lots of fuel, in fact almost all the "waste" can be used as fuel in other reactors. We don't use it purely because there's so much available.
You missed the point about cochlear implants, which is surprising given your first sentence. They're amazing because they're *almost* a direct man-machine interface.
Not to mention including Christ the Redeemer and giving the Pyramids "honorary" status. What a joke. The whole "Wonders of the World" thing was just a way to interest the general (European) public in the amazing sights to be found in the far corners of what was then still a mysterious world, and there were seven of them because it dovetailed well with the romantic notion of "Seven Seas" and "Seven Continents". It was just basically all about publicity by and for the archaeologists and explorers. This "New Seven Wonders" shtick is about nothing more than publicity as well, because if I had to limit it to only seven, Christ the Redeemer would not be on it.
The case could easily be made for Angkor Wat, as well as many, many other sites of cultural, historical, and/or architectural significance, but AFAIK the "Forgotten Wonder" has never even been mentioned on any list of "World Wonders". I'm speaking about the Banaue Rice Terraces of the Philipine Cordilleras, which were named a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1995, and which have my vote as the most amazing civil engineering project in human history. The terraces certainly fit the "Wonder" criteria many times over: they're ancient, having been built between 6,000 and 2,000 years ago, predating any of the current or vanished wonders; they're colossal, covering almost 4,000 square miles of mountainside; they're a marvel of engineering, the entire vast system of walls, terraces, steps, not to mention the ancient irrigation system which brings water down from the rainforests above the terraces, were built by hand; and most incredibly of all, 2,000 years after completion they're still maintained and used by the descendants of the original builders.
Everything about the terraces is truly mind-boggling, including the idea of a people still pursuing the same cultural traditions for literally millennia, but I guess that a bunch of ancient mountain farmland in a remote part of Asia isn't as sexy as Jesus in Brazil.
On a sidenote, the BBC did an incredible series, The 7 Wonders of the Industrial World which was absolutely fascinating. I got it for my grandfather-in-law's birthday (he's a civil engineer), and watching the series you realize why some of these things really are wonders. The design, planning and sheer amount of labour that went into some of these is incredible. I'd consider it recommended reading for anyone considering thinking about "new" wonders of the world.
The irony that a global integrated network capable of receiving and tabulating the opinions of millions of people from hundreds of countries wasn't a nominee for the seven wonders of the world is astounding.
The Taj Mahal has had a bigger impact on the history of the world than anything else. If Shah Jahan had not almost bankrupted the Mughal treasury and abolished the Mughal navy to pay for the Taj Mahal than no way could a bunch of merchants from a piddly Island have taken over what at the time was the richest country in the world. Shah Jahan's stupidity weakened the Mughal empire and it never recovered and the East India company exploited the weakness. Now without India the British empire is just a bunch of loss making coaling stations. No colony other than India ever made a profit for the British so no India no British empire. No British empire and English doesnt become the language of international commerce. Had the Mughal empire survived the language of international commerce and by extnsion that of Slashdot very well could have been Urdu
**Life is too short to be serious**
New Seven Wonders Poll (requires The Internet and the Christ Redeemer wonder) - Generates 1 unrest in all cities of civilizations who have discovered The Internet due to Slashdotters being enraged over the Christ Redeemer making the list.
Which is actually quite useful for screwing over the other players, considering that the nation hosting Christ Redeemer is immune to the effect.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Hell, it spans practically the whole freakin' planet - why not? Sure it's not as 'visible' as the other wonders, but a network at that scale that links almost every single country on a common protocol can't be taken lightly.
You're right. They should be decided by monks, based on rival lists by ancient Greeks, centuries after many of the candidates have been destroyed. That's a properly inclusive method!
Makes sense. I'm not really sure why a 55m statue of Jesus would be more significant than, say, a 100m buddha not among the list of 21, or Chichen Itza over Borobudur, let alone Angkor, which dwarfs Chichen Itza in size, complexity, and (in my opinion) artistry.
Anyway, 7 wonders may have been appropriate back when there were only 7 wonders. Nowadays, any sort of classification should A) be a factor of 10 (why 7?) and B) be categorized by date, region, and type -- statue/building/etc.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
But the point of Rushmore is that it provides a clear example of something with more merit than Super Jesus but that wasn't even nominated. (there are, of course, other comparisons to Super Jesus, but since Rushmore was a carving of stone, it serves as the best this-list-was-fucked example)
From what I've heard (post fact rationalization if I ever heard it), the main reason is the "whole" about the Christ statue. Not only the setting, but the whole setting.
Well, if they wanted Ipanema to be one of the wonders, they should have named it.
As usual, this is just another marketing stunt. I have been to the Christ statue a few times myself, and was not impressed at all. I was much more impressed by the Iguaçu Falls, and several other NATURAL wonders.
I agree with the China Wall. It was really a big accomplishment if you consider WHEN it was built. Same for the Pyramids at Egipt.
I, for one, only visit the Christ statue for the view. Which is really beautiful.
morcego
For a more neutral, exhaustive and more well-respected list of "Wonderful Places/Things":
UNESCO's list of World Heritages
I don't agree. I live in Merida, México. And I got kind of tired of the marketing campaigns focused on making us vote for Chichen Itza, it got specially tiresome when people I know insisted that I should vote for Chichen.
I didn't vote because I thought this was an important choice that should have been made by a a group of wise men and not using a popularity contest.
Chichen won, but I am not feeling too proud of this "victory", I am sure there are some other wonders even more wonderful that didn't make the cut because they didn't have enough native back up.
I sure hope Chichen won because people from outside of Mexico voted for it.
You american fools are just angry cause your so loved statue was not among the winners, hahahaha, it's clear that we the rest of the world do not like you, you redneck Mac Donald's eaters.
Now why didn't they include my list???! 1) Pamela Anderson 2) Carmen Electra 3) Jessica Alba 4) Jenny McCarthy 5) Kate Moss 6) Naomi Campbell (for all those racism-crying a**holes) 7) Oprah (for the really hopeless)
So the Taj Mahal gets to the seven wonders despite the barbaric moron who put it up killed the architects or gouged the eyes and chopped off the hands of the many thousands of artisans and workers who toiled to build it - just to make sure they don't go and build a similar monument elsewhere!
Let us not forget Joanie Laurer.
The choice of "wonders" was always rather shallow. For instance, why Stonehenge? Sure it's an interesting place, but there are older and better-preserved structures in the world. Shouldn't that have been the temples of Malta - the oldest in the world? Christ the Redeemer? Come on! It's not old - only 70-odd years, so it's not exactly a great achievement for its time, nor is it artistically special. There are far more impressive statues in Buddhism. IMO the list should have included the best example of every category to be found: the oldest building, the biggest statue, the most beautiful statue, etc. It SPECIFICALLY should not have been decided by public vote because the intention of the seven wonders is not to find the most popular artifacts. It should not be down to how much lobbying one can produce.
Besides, why seven? Seems to me that if there were more wonders known to the compiler of the first list, it would have been called the 9 wonders, or the 15 wonders.
Seven Wonders? More like the Seven Reasonable Curiosities.
I agree with you that the list is completely arbitrary (starting from the number 7 :), but I the Jesus statue amazes me more since it was completely man-made, whereas the budha was carved (the mountain was already made, if you wish :).
Frankly, speaking as a professional sculpture teacher, I give it a grade of 2.5 to 3...boring, bland and commercial in nature and surely nothing resembling a seven wonders of the world unless the world was a place with no art to compete with but we have a world repllete with hundreds, nay, thousands of wonderful works of art and architecture and this is not in their orbit. Some of these wonders are small like the Athena Lemnia and others are huge but to break things into a goup of seven and run as a popularity contest is absurd to the extreme. It means nothing any more than American Idol means anything other than a reflection of Plebian tastes in music. Frankly, I will stick with the original seven wonders of the ancient world which when described as they were kept my grade seven class rapt as my teacher read the descriptions of each. With the world now more tied together culturally and through communication, there is a lot of room at the top for great masterpieces of architecture and art. We really need a thousand wonders of the world and they really ought to be selected not by religiously influenced partisans but by antiquities and archeology specialists, architects and artists who know what they are looking at and not swayed by politically correct or culturally dominant populations. After all, a small out of the way culture is perfectly capable of creating a mind boggling work just as a giant and powerful nation is capable of not so doing. Saying all that, some of the choices of the Seven Wonders would have been on my great one thousand lists. But the only benefits of this contest is that is shows that people are wired and that alone made it interesting.
Texas was an independent Nation for 9 years, recognized by the US, France and Great Britain.
Hawaii was an independent Nation for ~79 years and was recognized by most of Europe and the US. It was a de-facto Nation for ~700 years prior to the ascension of the first king of the island group.
Other than those, no other US States could claim to be independent Nations.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Thank you.
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
Have been promoted to the "Seven Extreme Wonders" of the world. Now lets all write-in the iPhone and see what happens.
Note: This is why Texans and Hawai'ans tends to look a bit down at the other states.
+&x
Replace that statue with Stonehenge. Seriously. It has all of the prerequisites for an award, from mysticism, to insane engineering, and so on.
something tells me another 2000 years from now, the giza pyramids will again be the only ones standing.
The only think I will say is that Chichen Itza is far more important for multitude of reason.
As for where is more artistry involved, please, this is the 21sth century, those arguments where left behind long time ago.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Newgrange, Ireland. Older than the Giza Pyramids. Looks way better than Stonehenge. Awesome.