Slashdot Mirror
Ballmer Teases Software-Plus-Services in '07
Robert writes with a link to a CBR article hinting that Microsoft's vision of software-plus-services may begin to form this year. The idea is that an online version of Windows, plus a 'cloud' of related services and collaboration software, will allow a user to access their content from anywhere and (theoretically) be more productive. "In broad strokes,
that vision is to build a set of services for servers, clients and mobile devices in the
Internet cloud, with a new model of computation and user interface. Ballmer seemed to suggest
the first of these services would launch, in some form, later this year. Underpinning these services would be a "cloud platform," which is the Windows Live Core architecture the company is working on. 'We are in the process today of building out a service platform in the cloud,' Ballmer said. 'We're building out a service-based infrastructure, not server by server but a new management model, a new device model, new storage, networking, computational model from the get-go.'"
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey dance.
We're starting to see the beginings of this concept with Sharepoint 2007. Somehow, at least at my job, this idea of easy, integrated unstructured content sharing has become a big deal. Our users don't seem to care, but the big-wigs writing the checks do. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how they pull this off.
I can already place files to view from anywhere on .Mac, and it also syncronizes a number of things across multiple computers.
Apple hasn't done a lot with it beyond those things to date, but hints that is about to change... I'd say they have a head-start on Microsoft, yet again.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They will be quite lonely in their brave new world.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
Microsoft Buzz Words
Entertaining me since 1989
Think cloud of mosquitos, all annoying you and trying to suck you dry...
Our users don't seem to care, but the big-wigs writing the checks do.
That would be because they have more than one computer and are tired of M$'s lack of sharing tools. The lack of simple tools becomes apparent when you use a laptop or home system for work. Emailing stuff to yourself gets old fast. As little as grsync would make these people happy.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how they pull this off.
It's going to be clumsy because they won't just work with other people. They could just make some utilities to work with samba, but they are going to make something of their own or steal some other non free tool.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
- Sherman Acts
or anti-trust tying kicks in on this right away.Google needs to defeat this digital locker scheme is one hundred percent under the thumb of Microsoft. Time to break up Microsoft, Microsoft Live, Applications and Operating Systems along with Media properties.
Five business units, each shareholder would get a unit of each one in such a great split up.
Vista digital locker seems like a way for forcing all purchases , registrations and technical product keys all go through Microsoft.
Call your congress critter on this break up!
http://www.aisnota.com/slashdot/ Welcome to Logic and the Future
OK, I'll hold my breath, because Microsoft always ships on schedule.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
Now that internet access is ubiquitous, fast, and reliable, the age of the thin client may really be upon us. Though thin clients have been touted in the past and failed, the state of the internet has never been ready to handle thin clients in the past. This has changed.
Home users and small business simply should not have to worry about maintaining firewalls, patches, backups, revision control, document sharing services, and all the other mess that comes with typical PC use. They have only done it so far because there was no other option. Now things are changing, and I welcome it. The only people who will lose out on this are the low-level tech support types and small business IT technicians. With today's unemployment rates, this isn't a huge problem.
Yay, progress!
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Sure, the growth of virtualization might make some aspects more palatable, but others (like, you know, "control") are simply not going to be ameliorated by repackaging.
It's almost like MSFT has been on a re-run kick lately... Software-as-Service, Tablets (okay, "tables" now), etc...
It would be damned interesting to see MSFT come up with a new idea that folks actually like, instead of chasing others' successes (e.g. with xbox and Zune and IE, to varying degrees of success), or trying to rehash their failed ones.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
How many times did he put that in there?
I once worked for an incredibly successful consulting firm: 2 to 1500 employees in five years, $1M to $500M in revenue, true employment (not "as long as we have a customer for you"), many other examples of goodness and light. It was bought for cash by a huge telecom, who thought that we could deliver on such a vague promise as "remotely managed software services."
In fairness, the idea was already being floated about, that we could just set up NOCs/ROCs all over the place and somehow, magically, deliver as many services as a demand existed for. The telecom just drooled over it; circa 1997, they were all watching the biscuit wheels falling off of the long-distance gravy train.
Of course, the behemoth telecom sealed the coffin by demanding that we try to make their broken attempts at non-remote service offerings work. I left when they decreed that Windows NT would be the only OS running on any of their machines. They sold off little pieces of the original firm. Last I heard, a few ex-managers got together and bought what was left of it in order to use the brand name.
I'm not saying that M$ can't eventually pull this off. If any existing entity could make it work, they could. I base this on their mind-numbing ability to handle huge problems that, you know, "no one could have expected." That is, if they really try to do this, it will fail, over and over again. Only M$, IMO, has the resources to survive these failures. And only M$ could command such a vast array of excellent talent and manage to turn out such mediocre products.
It looks to me more like they're trying to imitate what they think Google is.
"Press to test."
(click)
"Release to detonate."
Seriously, what's up with all the clouds Ballmer?
I suppose it's an apt term. Something that seems big and impressive from a long way away but if you get up close you see it's nothing more than vapour, completely intangible.
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
I cant wait to sell my soul to MS!
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
This seems to be entirely for the benefit of Microsoft - their wanting to secure a regular income, with the benefits to the customer a distant second.
After all, why go to all the trouble of pushing Vista or its (likely even less popular) successors on an uninterested public, when you can just bill them monthly?
What do we as customers get out of it? The ability to access our data remotely? I can largely already do that - the things I'm most likely to want access to, such as mail, are well catered for by multiple webmail operations, and it's notable that MS has managed to so badly screw up Hotmail if this is where they're aiming.
As for other apps, I suspect that network bandwidth is going to put a stop to many of those plans.
Not to mention the issue of trust - would *you* trust MS with all your data. Again, judging by the success of their Passport scheme, it looks like a resounding NO!
I find it rather ironic that MS came to prominence precisely because they gave us control over our own computers, rather than being beholden to a single central controller, and now they want to be that controller.
Microsoft basically wants to copycat the cellphone 'pay as you go' revenue model. Software 'plus' services basically means the software is useless without some sort of online subscription, specially associated with a single users account.
Want to read mail? better purchase a subscription to MS-Mail+
Want to see up to date help files for visual studio? better subscribe to Developer+
Want to get updates? subscribe to Updates+
expect each of these services to have a small monthly fee, something like you would see on a cellphone bill.
People are used to getting gouged for cell service, the sheep will learn to like it for software as well.
Next step is Microsoft Datacenters, and Microsoft Storage. No need to buy or 'own' a PC anymore, lease/rent it and all your software from Microsoft, for a small monthly fee of course.
This is part of the cumulative Microsoft vision that started when they wanted to make every part of their OS a configurable widget. The idea is that if you abstract the system enough into an insanely complex object model, you can give users control of it, and most programming tasks becoming a question of plugging together the right objects with the right filters and actors. The difference is that now they've brought .net-style wisdom into the picture, and are going to make it a net-wide, OS-less (but Vista-dependent, no doubt) version of the original ActiveX evangelism.
The good news is that this could make many programming tasks less tedious, and when a year later a more efficient (less corporate, fewer people) FOSS team takes on a clone project, it'll be fun for the rest of us as well.
technical writing / development
OK, dude, the days of praising Apple and saying how they're ahead of everyone for a quick karma hit are gone. I know, I know, you were here when /. was hosted on Apple][s; but times change. I know old timer, these young'uns don't respect anything anymore.
Quick karma hits come from praising F/OSS - that's Free and Open Source Software projects. And saying how big corporations and IP law are killing innovation.
It's OK, I'm on my way out too.
See how quickly times change. After I wrote this and hit 'Preview' you were up to "+2 Interesting from "-1 Troll". God! I'm getting old. Where's my walker and get off of my lawn!
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
Software isn't like Cable TV, Phone, or similar home services. After all, I don't put my personal data into any of those, and I certainly don't use them to store my own files. If Joe Sixpack misses the 'rent' on his thin client, he's screwed... hard. Even if his files were stored locally, he'd have a very hard time opening media files which can only be opened by the thin client (yes, I can see MSFT --or someone else-- doing that very easily to produce a literal lock-in).
A thin client would certainly free up the average user from routine tasks... but what if the user prefers to use, say IrfanView for managing and viewing his/her image files, instead of whatever the vendor has provided (prolly the MS default image viewer)? I sincerely doubt that the vendor is going to let said user simply install whatever he/she wants, since it would become a logistical nightmare to support on the back end.
There's still too much room for abuse... on all sides. It removes consumer choice from the equation entirely, unless consumers can organize en masse and simply shift to a friendlier provider. Boycotts of that size, especially with personal data and files at stake, will be infinitely harder to organize and execute. Even regular ones today are tough enough to pull off.
Technically, I think it's damned fine. VM's for corporate users saves a ton of cash in hardware. OTOH, those corporations aren't as willing to trust their secrets and business on VM servers that they don't own. Users have very similar reasons.
Don't get me wrong, I can see it happening on some levels... but I just don't see any mass shift towards it (what... you think Joe Sixpack wants his vendor to keep his tax records --or conversely, his pr0n collection-- and not have them within immediate and total control?)
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Yea Macroshaft will 'serve' you alright.
"If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind."
...they could call this bold new idea ".NET"
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I thought I heard, "blah, blah, blah, Internet, blah, blah, cloud , blah, blah, blah...."
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Apparently Ballmer wants to build his own house of cards.
Microsoft is hard at work on the DBSOD, the Distributed Blue Screen of Death. Now you can freeze any machine, anywhere in the world!
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
you're bound to imagine services "in the cloud"
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
people fundamentally distrust others and do not like to be reliant on others when it can be trivally avoided (Linux).
A. Nothing about Linux is trivial unless it comes on an embedded device. That's FUD.
B. Security is too important to be (mis) managed in house for small companies. I WANT to outsource all of my IT stuff so that I don't have to deal with it in house. I'd like to have off-site file serving, mail, web (the last two we have already outsourced). If broadband ever gets to be more reliable, I'd even consider outsourcing app hosting, as well.
I don't respond to AC's.
how is this off topic? if MSFT is involved you will have to pay to access your own data, and if you miss a payment or are late with it you lose all your data. The same goes for network neutrality. it's just the ISPs who want to nickel and dime you to death.
The Dot-Bomb of this decade is brewing and it will be these "software as services" repeating the mistakes of AOL, Compuserve, and Prodigy again. Apparently we don't learn from history, thus making us doomed to repeat it.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
In some jobs people are working too much off the clock as it is. This would just enable, if not exacerbate, that kind of behavior. This I would liken to giving a Video iPod to a porn addict. Being "more prodictive" does have it's downside. I can forsee an increase in employee burnout and fatigue from companies who adopt this technology.
Indeed !
Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
Ballmer is no Fucking Joke(TM). After he Fucking Kills(TM) Google, he's coming for the fanboys, and you.
"If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind."
Just scroll bit down to GNOME Online Desktop. Open Source desktop guys are talking about this idea for a long time. They want to build interface with contacts list as central place. People (online presences) are to become major pivot point. Telepathy, Galago, Decibel, KIMProxy gave application access to uniform online connectivity and presence information. ,,aggregator for popular online sites and social notworking websites'' -- check Mugshot.
Additionally, projects like Stateless Linux break ties between user's documents and his computer. User's desktop moves with him when changing laptops etc.
They even built
:wq
*KNOCK*KNOCK*KNOCK* ...
"Steve, it's Bill, let me in, man" ...
"Bill's not here, man."
From the Microsoft "me too" department ... Ballmer's answer to Google Apps. Evidently they are hedging their bets against the possibility of Google Apps taking hold and eating away at MS Office market share.
Orgs that want to control their own destiny aren't going to go for either one. They're going to use software-plus-services technologies, but they'll run them from their own data centers.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
But I tagged this: 'ballmerintheskywithdiamonds'
What Microsoft is not telling anyone is that they will charge for every little thing you do in Windows Live. The whole thing is designed to suck your money into their pockets on a monthly basis forever. If you buy into Microsoft's dream, you will be paying them for the rest of your life. Is that really what you want?
How about instead of consumers surrendering all their data to centrally controlled third parties, those third parties send us their code to run locally on our data. Oh wait, I just described an open source distro repository, lol.
random underscore blankspace at ya know hoo dot comedy.
In short, Microsoft can no longer be like Microsoft since they are losing their lock on the market. However they don't have a plan to become anything new, at least not at a scale that can support them at their current burn rates. All they can do is poorly mimic other company's strategies and business models. That doesn't strike me as a winning strategy. To me this is more signs that MS is collapsing, and over the next five years it will become apparent to everyone that it is doing so.
They sure do have a head start on Microsoft, including the "it will only work well with our own OS" part.
.Mac features.
Actually that's not so, they have a Windows client you can use to get to files, and of course a web interface for accessing other
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I will add:
Smog Cloud!
Methane Cloud!
ThunderStorm Cloud!
What a great way to sell services. Every single instance of a cloud is bad news.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Isn't a cloud water vapor?
So he's saying they're working on vapor?
Now that's honesty.
Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
They already did: if you buy a Mac and an iPhone, then you can access your .Mac data from your iPhone. Will the wonders never cease!
.Mac you got wrong!
.Mac beyond the web based features - no accessing stored files, or in fact synchronizing account passwords onto the iPhone as you can with other Macs through .Mac. That, to me, is puzzling but probably another aspect they will address later this year.
The really funny thing is, that the one valid complaint you could level against
Currently you can't really access
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
There's one, and only one, reason why Microsoft is hyping this: it's the next big push to acclimate the world to software as a subscription service. They're salivating over the prospect of being able to collect from you every month, just like Comcast does, and to the same degree of excess and (even more) obscene profit. They want to reeducate you to think of software as "content".
If you think Microsoft has made a lot of money selling one-time software licenses, just wait until they've got people accustomed to paying them every month. You ain't seen nuthin' yet.
This is one of those turnkey moments in history, folks. Either we plant our feet solidly and draw a line, or lose the whole farm as Microsoft convinces all the neighbors to sell out.
I'm not trying to bash Microsoft, but they don't exactly have the best reputation in the realm of security.
I would be VERY hesitant to use a MS service that allows access to "all of my content" using a nebulous array of servers. I certainly wouldn't want to be an early adopter of this technology until they can prove a secure track record--especially given the problems with their current product lines.
Even if a miraculous thing happens and the "Live Core" thing ends up being pretty secure, my biggest problem with this technology is its reliance on networking. If a second miracle happens and the quality, quantity, and ubiquity of broadband networking over the air and standard transmisson media gets to a point where it is reliable and affordable then we might be looking at a viable useable service.
As it stands today, MS's security holes and the limited reliability/availablity of current broadband services keep Steve's Live Core dream in the lab.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Intuit offers QuickBooks as a web application. It's a great idea (although it relies on ActiveX + IE) and worth paying the monthly fee. We could access it from anywhere and the accountant could get into the data without coming to our office. For us, it was much better than the normal locally installed software.
Lots of apps (SalesForce.com, TaxCut, etc.) will benefit from this model.
Bigtime Consulting - "We're the best because we cost the most"
'nuf said...
Ballmer seems to be hinted about OpenOffice.org entering the cloud with GravityZoo.
1) Make announcement of a revolutionary new Operating System ... Internet Cloud ...
2)
3) Profit!
Good job on proving the GP right, idiot.
What do you mean already been done?
broadband in North America, this may not work or be practical at all.
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
Microsoft has issues as they have not really innovated anything for some time now. It is all updates to previous versions of software they bought or stole (based on the patent lawsuits they are dealing with) Marketing will only carry them so far these days. I think non technical people are starting to wise up. I mean hell even Al Sharpton is advocating the use of Ubuntu. So the more non techie decision makers are aware of alternatives and their potential benefits the better. Apple or Linux is a good way to go over Vista personally.
That would seem to be the very definition of "vaporware".
The problem with Microsoft now is I think that it has decided that users want to use their computers in a more efficient way. The problem is that it hasn't quite got round to understanding that for the model that are hoping to adopt they will need to effectively offer their product for free.
I could give you the most obvious answer, Linux - most distributions are free, you pay for the support. But even more importantly companies such as LOGMEIN.COM are now offering free basic services like those discussed in the article that allow users to remotely log onto MAC and Windows PC from virtually any web browser (I suppose that would even include the iPhone). In addition, with many companies already using VNC and Citrix (whom admittedly are in parntership with Microsoft), it seams that they are a little late to the party.
...when I worked in Redmond, I already overhear many MS employees enthusiastically talking over lunch about selling people the "right" to use Word at $0.25 a pop. Some of them really feel like they're curing cancer or something.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
...to buy into an OS/Software model that M$ can just throw the switch and turn off your company if you have not paid your monthly extortio^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H payment on time.
Imagine if your init scripts contain the following:
aptitude install kubuntu-desktop
This is essentially what "software as a service" does. Oh, but what about data shared over the network with a bunch of people collaborating on the project ? Simple. Just add another line...
svn up
Really, that's pretty much all there is to it. Oh, but what if I want to run code on the remote server? Well...
ssh username@host
Hey, you could even add in an NX client if you want it really fancy. Software as a service is nothing new.
Pfft. The usual slashnonsense. Look up Application Service Provider.* It's been around before most of you were born. A lot of computing pioneers grew up with mainframes and remote services. Software as a service is nothing new. The only thing that is new is it coming to the consumer level.
*There's varients on this model as well.
Wow, tough room today - usually this would have been modded +5 funny by now...
They have 90%+ of the desktop. What was that about irrelevancy again?
Here we go, back to the 'data center' idea for basic computing.
I still remember when Microsoft was the alternative to the 'big boxes' with their leased resources. "a computer of your own"
Tho its not much consolation, it is nice to see people starting to realize it was the better way of doing things.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
(Not FTA...)
Ballmer: [whilst dancing around and sweating profusely] "HA HA, Software-Plus-Services! Your mom is dumb and ugly and stupid and everyone thinks you smell!!!"
You know, it sure is strange to hear about Ballmer teasing something. Isn't he usually the one getting teased?
Ohhh, wait, different kind of teasing. My mistake.
the JoshMeister on Security
These aren't services. It's another attempt to fully realize the pay-forever model.
I don't know whether to embrace it or hate it. This more than anything could actually hasten the adoption of OSS.
-- Posted from my parent's basement
Antitrust, anyone?
Microsoft does a great job of following what others are already doing. But my bit question is how am I going to reboot this new system when I get the BSOD :p
Microsoft needs a new saying. Innovation, nah that requires out of the box thinking :)
As soon as I read "Ballmer Teases" I had to stop.
was "We're building a cloudbase from which I will RULE THE WORLD"
Mr Ballmer was spotted running up to Software-Plus-Services, smacking it around the ears and shouting "Nyah Nyah Nyah Nyaaaaah-Nyah!"
Pictures at 11.
Revenue, baby. Same reason they like software assurance so much. You pay first, and then you use it. Software as a Service is the logical extension of this. A perpetual amount of money flowing into the company, regardless whether people upgrade or not. Or worse (for users) upgrading at Microsoft's demands. Microsoft has been wanting this for a log, long time. (Project Megaserver). They might as well get it too.
All your data are belong to Microsoft Somebody set up us the antitrust
A-ha! Now i figure out the vicious plan:
Steve "Monkeyboy" Ballmer's next announcement
will be so hilarious that everyone will die of laughing!
I wonder when will he step out of the cloud
and have his feet meet the concrete?
ThunderStorm Cloud!
...and let's not forget their similarly named "HailStorm" which completely failed to do anything after a *lot* of hype.
There's no place like